#misandry is real

[degengxrl]

if you call transmascs talking abt their oppression ‘transandrophobia truthers’ fuck you you antisemitic asshole

#stop telling on yourself #stop please #its not cute #bigotry #antisemitism #conspiracy theories #misandry is real #transmisandry #transandromisia #anti transmasculinity #anti transmasc hate #ugh #stop doing the fascists work for them #transmisia #estrogendyking

[mrhelicoprion]

Actually, the only jokes that are obviously jokes are the few that are both labeled and labelled correctly/without ulterior motive.

If I make a barbed comment about how late you always are, but say it's a joke, it is not obviously a joke

My mother doesn't like a lot of jokes because they "contain a seed of truth". She (and me and the family) frequently experiences comments meant to be humorous, or seen as humorous by us, but are actually expressions of annoyance.

And online reading comprehension sucks. We've all seen the "how dare you say we piss on the poor" post or response before. A lot of comments are seen in a vacuum. I am making this post in reference to a post I reblogged immediately before writing this post, but that is not immediately apparent, right?

Seeing "men carrying waterbottles are too feminine" without context CAN and WILL be taken at face value with an assumed 100% genuineness. Hearing a lot of stuff like that eventually makes you think a lot of people think that way, which can eventually lead to you thinking it's "normal" and start adjusting your publicly visible life to avoid being at the wrong end of such beliefs until you believe it yourself.

#it speaks #misandry is real

[samtalksmusic]

yes keep denying that man have feelings too... id like for the roles to be switched, ill let you guys go to war and ill stay home

#thats equality #misandry is real #you guys just dont wanna stop crapping on men

[fenrhi]

Wait… She boarded the Astral Express before JY or Bladie??

#misandry is real #fenrhi plays hsr

[genderisareligion]

#misandry: it don’t real

[spitblaze]

I will say this once because I'm tired of seeing stupid discourse: anti-transmasculinity is not about being treated bad because we clock as men, it's about being treated as stupid little girls because transphobes think we've been tricked into this.

It's kind of the opposite of transmisogyny- instead of fear and revulsion, it's constant condescension, the implications that we've been whisked away from femininity by scary bad guys, that we're going to cause 'irreparable damage' because we don't know what's best for ourselves, somehow. People fearmonger a lot about the "ugliness" of transfem people, but for transmasc people that 'ugliness' is used as a warning- you'll look like THIS! You'll go BALD! Your top surgery scars will leave you MUTILATED! A lot of aesthetic concerns. Worry about our 'beauty'. Because it comes from that same stupid reactionary 'we gotta SAVE the WOMEN' shit, but this time they have to save them from getting 'stolen away', as if we're being seduced or pressured into this. As if we can't make our own decisions.

For TERFS specifically, they're losing one of their own. We're 'gender traitors', willingly aligning ourselves with the half of the population they consider unilaterally dangerous and evil.

We aren't REALLY trans, we just want the benefits that men get. You don't actually want to transition, you're just trying to avoid misogyny.

You aren't actually a man, you're just a self-loathing lesbian.

Why can't you just be a butch girl? Why can't you just be a tomboy?

Why can't you just be something that I don't think is icky?

Anyway. Like all things, it boils down to misogyny. Women stupid and gentle, dont know what best for them, evil men trick into taking man juice, must save because lady stupid and dont know what best for them (having babies and being Feminine).

Theres like. Obviously more to this but I'm just a Transmasc Rando explaining this from my perspective, and I'm not the best with words. Anyone is free to hop in and add on to this

#long post #transphobia #spitblaze says things #anti-transmasculinity #several disclaimers #i do not think misandry is real. #i think stigmatization of masculinity is real with a lot of women and terfs specifically #i think a lot of people whether they know it or not consider men to be inherently 'bad' #i think men are very often treated as emotionless and 'tough' by default which causes a lot of issues #but thats not anywhere near the level of misogyny. its a separate issue and not related #im not trying to say that trans men somehow have it 'worse' than trans women?? what would thay even accomplish. this isnt a pissing contest #and even if it was I'd lose #and my wording isnt the best bc this is a Midnight Rant and not a scholarly article #if you want to pick a fight about semantics consider that theres a good chance that i genuinely didnt realize what i said #anyway uh. yeah. this discourse is dumb i cant belive its happening #and i especially cant belive how bad people are at articulating the actual point of the matter #(not that im one to talk lmao) #doin numbers

[frogfacey]

whaaaat our men's rights movement that hinges on the belief of gendered socialisation and sex based oppression has a terf problem??? who could have seen this coming???

#''hey theres terfs in the transandrophobia tag'' UHM THEYRE NOT REAL TRANSANDROPHOBIA TRUTHERS THEYRE MAKING US LOOK BAD!!! #this keeps happening I fink it might be time to give up the misandry posting #transmisogyny

[autolenaphilia]

Transandrophobia isn’t real because misandry isn’t real. This is the basic truth of the matter.

The very structure of the word implies some kind of intersection of transphobia and misandry, which is impossible, because again misandry doesn’t exist. The phrase “transandrophobia” exists as a transmasc counterpart to transmisogyny, and it doesn’t work, because while misogyny is real, misandry/androphobia is not. The things that are described as “transandrophobia” which are actual instances of oppression are better explained as plain transphobia.

The antifeminism of transandrophobia theory

“Transandrophobia” theory often launders antifeminist concepts of misandry. Of course this is openly often denied. The defense is that transandrophobia doesn’t imply that misandry exists, but only describes transphobia directed at transmascs.

And it’s often disingenuous. I’ve come across numerous transandrophobia blogs that clearly believe in misandry. The very coiner of the word, says it’s caused by “the effects of irrational fears of masculinity and manhood“ (taking “androphobia” quite literally) which implies both the existence of misandry and also misogynistically dismissing women’s fears of men’s violence as irrational.

Of course they change the language around, using euphemisms for misandry. In fact transandrophobia is a clear evolution of the term “transmisandry.” Genderkoolaid and ey’s idea of “anti-masculism” that I criticized here is maybe the most obvious example of that on tumblr today.. The belief in some kind of systemic force that “negatively impacts men and masculine people on the basis of their manhood and/or masculinity.“ to quote genderkoolaid is as succinct a definition of misandry theory as any. And ey even outright admits that “antimasculism” is just another word for misandry. Other transandrophobia bloggers like the transunity blog outright use the word “misandry.”So for simplicity’s sake, I’m going to use “misandry” for whatever euphemisms transandrophobia people use, like “antimasculism”, “androphobia” or claims that “society hates men” or “there is a widespread irrational fear of men and masculinity.”

The use of feminist language like “patriarchy” common among transandrophobia people is either severely confused or outright dishonest. It’s a symptom of the terrible understanding of feminism on this site, as I lamented before. Patriarchy as a term that inherently implies male privilege, men are privileged for being men, not disadvantaged. Claiming the patriarchy oppresses men on the basis of their gender is a contradiction in terms. And belief in misandry is inherently misogynistic and anti-feminist.

How terms for systemic oppression actually work

Let’s however assume that the word “transandrophobia” just means “transphobia aimed at transmascs.” Then I don’t see why this word needs to exist. It contradicts most academic work on systemic oppression. New terms are generally not made just to describe “specific experiences of an oppression”. Instead they are created to describe meaningful intersections of different forms of oppression. Often these are intersections with misogyny, because that particular oppression affects about half the population. So misogynynoir describes an intersection of anti-blackness/racism and misogyny that black women experience, and lesbophobia describes an intersection of homophobia and misogyny that lesbians experience. And transmisogyny describes an intersection of misogyny and transphobia that trans women and transfems experience.

The lesbophobia example is especially pertinent to this discussion. The homophobia that gay men experience is often distinct from that lesbians experience, and homophobia against gay men is no minor prejudice, gay men have literally been murdered for being gay. Yet there is no “homoandrophobia” (to borrow an argument from this post by catgirlforeskin) and that’s because misandry/androphobia isn’t real. Men experience systemic oppression differently from women experiencing the same oppression, but that’s because of the absence of misogyny, not the existence of any misandry.

So a word like transandrophobia does imply an intersection between “androphobia/misandry”and transphobia. Otherwise it doesn’t have much reason to exist.

Misandry must affect all men in order to exist

I have seen claims that while “cis misandry” doesn’t exist, trans men and transmasc people are in fact oppressed for being men or masculine. And that’s how transandrophobia works

.

But that’s just transphobia. Misandry can only be real if it affects all men. Misogyny is a viable term because all women are oppressed for being women, even if they can also be privileged because of things like being cis, wealthy or white which balances out their oppression for being women (intersectionality is complex). I wouldn’t claim misogyny was real if it only affected a subset of women.

You can’t claim that men are oppressed for being men or being masculine, that it is some stigmatized gender or gender expression, when being a man and specifically a masculine man is what is expected of about half the population, and in fact men gain privilege for the successful performance of masculinity.

It’s true that trans men and other transmascs are systemically oppressed, and do indeed experience severe pushback if they express their manhood or try to transition in a transmasculine direction. But that’s because they are trans. Transfems experience a similar oppression for expressing their womanhood or trying to transition in transfeminine direction. That’s why the word transphobia exists.

Let’s make an example of a common bit of rhetoric among transandrophobia people, and see how it is all explained entirely by transphobia. Transandrophobia people talk about some general “hatred of testosterone” as part of transandrophobia, often dishonestly conflating transfems expressing their dysphoria with transphobic rhetoric about how testosterone ruins transmasc bodies.

But any idea about society hating testosterone fail to account for why the testosterone flowing through bodies deemed naturally male is seen as okay. In fact being “high-t” is seen as a positive in a man. It’s not even a prejudice against medical testosterone, being “low-t” is a fad disorder that cis men can easily get testosterone prescriptions for. And trying to lower your “natural testosterone” levels is something that’s actively hindered and gatekept, something I’ve experienced. I waited three years to get on t-blockers due to medical gatekeeping. In my country Sweden getting your balls removed legally and thus permanently lower your t-levels is something you have to petition the government for, something I’m trying to do.

Any kind of theorizing about a misandristic hatred of testosterone can’t explain this. It’s only so-called “cross-sex hormones” that are seen as bad, not testosterone in itself. And this is entirely explained by transphobia, not misandry.

It’s of course true that men are oppressed, but it’s never on the basis of being men. People who try to argue for misandry often use (often appropriatively) the struggles of oppressed men and try to argue they are oppressed because they are men. And transandrophobia theory is no different.

“Deserving a word”

The attitude among the transmascs who support transandrophobia theory seems to be “transfems have transmisogyny to describe their oppression, we deserve a word too.” Except again, transfems don’t have the term transmisogyny because we are very special girls who need a special word for our oppression, it exists because it describes the intersection of misogyny and transphobia we experience. It exists for the same reason as lesbophobia does, to describe an intersection between misogyny and another oppression. Gay men are not disadvantaged compared to lesbians because they “only” have the more general term “homophobia” while lesbians have the more specific word “lesbophobia.” And I don’t think transmascs would be disadvantaged if nobody accepted transandrophobia as a tern for their experiences.

You don’t need a specific word to talk about your experiences with transphobia, just as gay men don’t need a world like lesbophobia to talk about their experiences with homophobia. You can just talk about them, and use the word “transphobia” as a label for it.

And sometimes acknowledging that our experiences of oppression can be similar is useful for solidarity and community building. All trans people are negatively affected by transphobia, and that is the real “transunity.” theory.

Don’t end up like nothorses who once unironically listed “Misgendering over the phone,“ as an example of transandrophobia/transphobia only affecting transmascs.

Words exist in a context

Transandrophobia clearly exists as some transmasc counterpart to the transfem transmisogyny. It was even more obvious when the word was “transmisandry.” Words always exist in a context, and is often built by binaries. How someone who believes it defines transandrophobia does say a lot about how they define transmisogyny.

I’ve already described how if transandrophobia merely means “transmascs specific experiences with transphobia” it doesn’t have much reason to exist. But it also by implication diminishes and reduces transmisogyny. If transandrophobia only means “the transphobia experienced by transmasculine people”, transmisogyny is reduced by implication to only meaning “transphobia experienced by transfeminine people.” It’s another symptom of how tumblr discourse is uninterested in acknowledging misogyny, and in this case that misogyny is intersecting with transphobia in transmisogyny.

And well, if transmisogyny means “an intersection between transphobia and misogyny experienced by transfems” it does imply that transandrophobia also should describe an intersection, for why else does it exist. And we are back to it describing an imaginary intersection between transphobia and misandry, a misogynistic and antifeminist idea.

Who gets to define their own oppression?

Of course I am a trans woman, and I will of course get accused of hating transmascs, and robbing them of their ability to define their own oppression.

I would be more sympathetic to this argument, if transandrophobia theorists didn’t keep on constantly defining transmisogyny as the result of misandry. It is common in these circles for transmascs to reject any tme/tma distinction too. Literally going “I got mistaken for a trans woman once, that means I’m affected by transmisogyny.” There is absolutely zero respecting transfems rights to define their own oppression in transandrophobia circles, so why should I respect theirs?

Seriously, the “transmisogyny is actually misandry” claim just keeps happening. Genderkoolaid did it, the transunity blog too, and this dude who I literally found by browsing the “transmisogyny” tag spewing his misandry nonsense.

The problem with “transmisogyny is misandry, actually” is that misandry isn’t real, men are privileged for being men. Transfems experience oppression because we reject being men and performing masculinity. Men are in fact our oppressor class. When transmisogynists talk derisively about “men who wear dresses and say they are women”, they aren’t saying that being a man is bad (in fact they are often men themselves), it’s that “being amab and rejecting masculinity and manhood and claiming to be a woman is bad.” Its an intersection of transphobia and misogyny.

“Transandrophobia” is seldom just talking about the difficulties of being transmasc, it wants to redefine how transfems think about their oppression as well. And it does so in misgendering and transmisogynistic ways.

The transandrophobia theorists generally ignore the existence of transmisogyny, especially in queer communities. In fact it often implies or outright states that transfems are privileged in the trans/queer communities for being women or feminine, which is bizarre. In reality, Transmisogyny is rife in queer spaces, with “crazy trans woman syndrome” being common.

And it’s not like transandrophobia discourse is immune to that particular syndrome. Transmisogyny-exempt privilege dynamics remain very much in play. Transfems tend to get accused of being transandrophobic. The accusations are framed as “lateral aggression” not oppression, although the tone of these posts suggests “lateral aggression” is another polite euphemism word swap game like misandry for “androphobia.”

It feels like the antifeminist, and specifically anti-transfeminist roots of the whole transandrophobia idea coming to the forefront.

#my writings #transmisogyny #misandry is not real

[virusymbiote]

i would like everyone to know that when i say i hate males, and want them all dead i do mean it sincerely. and it includes your brothers, boyfriends, fathers and whatever other creeps there are with that nasty y chromosome

#kam #misandry #i want to make misandry real

[cynamonowo]

kaname date special where i kill him with oh so much violence

#aitsf #ai the somnium files #aini #kaname date #aitsf spoilers cw #misandry isn't real but he's an exception #babygirl you are so cringe and pathetic it makes me sick <3 #sylwek.txt

[kittykatninja321]

dc worse dad poll is seemingly on hiatus but i am impatient and desperate to know how this matchup will shake down so:

feel free to go crazy with the propaganda in the notes, write essays, provide panel evidence , etc etc get in your lawyer bag

#Slade Wilson #deathstroke #Bruce Wayne #Batman #dc comics #dc #Beforehand I would’ve said that while Bruce has more quantitative evidence due to having more children and more panel time #Slade has the more qualitatively genuinely callous disregard for his children’s wellbeing. But now after looking at all the Bruce evidence #I’m not sure you can say that. Still voting 4 Slade because I find him more detestable <3. Bruce is like a rat I study for science but Slad #manages to inspire real life misandry within me I think about him and I go ‘men need to be culled’ #Dick Grayson #Rose Wilson

[dayangaytransman]

Warnings: Transphobia, sexism, misandry, bad therapist and Bear dudes ( jokingly)

In my country, there are no gender therapists, and the psychologists not only refuse to help with transitioning, but also, due to the laws and other issues, often persuade individuals against transitioning.

It was two years ago, and my mother was worried about me. She thought I was mentally ill because I wanted to be a boy. So, she decided to take me to a therapist/psychologist. I’m not sure which one that person was. Anyway.

It was my first time visiting any kind of therapist. I was very nervous. However, because my mom had told me that the therapist, an old cis woman, had experience working with transgender individuals, I wasn’t worried about it. I was mistaken.

So we went to her office and sat down. She asked my mother to leave, and then we were alone.

She was trying to be kind at first. This is a little bit of our conversation:

- Hi, what should I call you? What gender are you?

Me, living in a binary society, dressing as a boy, acting like a boy, and my mother just told her that I want to be a boy : Just call me Dayan, and I am a boy.

Then she asked questions because she was not sure what that meant.

I told her: But they said you have worked with trans people before

She said: No, not really. It was just one person and not even like you. (That was a trans woman.)

Yeah, she told people she is trans-friendly to make money. Anyway, we talked more, and then, suddenly, she got angry.

She said: Why do you want to be a man?! Men are ugly! They are as hairy as gorillas! They smell bad! They are always horny! They are rapists! They are garbage!

I was in shock. I had never heard that shit before, and she was a fucking therapist! I thought therapists were smart! What the hell was that?! She hates all men?!

I am gay, and at the time, I had a crush on a bear dude (he is my BF now), and the things she said made me so angry and upset.

Also, don’t worry, ma’am, I am not going to transition into your husband!

Do you think she was a queen herself? No! She was an ugly old lady who doesn’t know how to dress!

After she said that, I became the therapist! That woman certainly needs one. I told her not to hate all men and that hairy, horny dudes are okay. But if they smell bad and rape people, that’s not okay. I taught her to be respectful and also educated her about trans and non-binary individuals. I was talking for about 3 hours!

Seriously, I was the therapist. Then the lady told my mother that I am okay and not mentally ill. Yes, that’s obvious, bitch. And she took an amount of money equivalent to three days of my mother’s work from us for just three hours. Sure, she did help a little, but it was me acting as a therapist for her the entire time!

I am worried about her male clients and the men in her life. Also, what are you going to tell your transfeminine clients? To not be like you,bitch?

#lgbt #lgbtq #lgbtqia #lgbtq community #transgender #transmasc #trans man #trans #transguy #therapist #bad therapy #misandry #sexism #gay bear #this is my real life #she was a bitch

[dkettchen]

A summary of my excursion to the local (publicly accessible) uni library to look at some books to learn proper pattern drafting for my highly customisable sewing needs/goals

I'd assumed the problem would be a nonbinary one of binary gendering above base theory, but ALAS, THE MATRIARCHY IS STRONG WITH THIS ONE

#sewing #pattern drafting #matriarchy #misandry #men's lib #that single one that had a men's section also ONLY covered 'CASUAL men's wear' WHICH DID NOT INCLUDE THE MF SUIT JACKET INFO I NEED #there were *several* books on suit wear BUT ONLY FOR WOMEN'S I just- #I did take pictures of the entire men's wear chapter tho cause it at least had pants-drafting instructions I'll be able to use #and it WASN'T TOO LONG so easy enough to take pics of real quick

[stupid-sloot-headcanons]

The self-fulfilling prophecy of writers depicting a man being raped to show how traumatizing it is and elicit sympathy and empathy from male readers, only for male readers to joke about it and downplay it will never not kill me inside. And that's regardless of the perpetrator's sex: if it's a man, men make gay jokes and prison rape jokes. If it's a woman, they joke about how they wish they were the one who got to be raped by her.

Male rape victims deserve compassion and I appreciate artists who try to evoke it, but ultimately you are asking for basic humanity from the demographic that downplays all forms of rape (and roughly 95% of the time, is the one perpetrating it)

And then those same dudes will try to deflect anyone saying something too feminist like "it's fucked up to dismiss a rape victim's story and complain about MeToo ruining innocent men's lives uwu" with "B-But men get raped too! I don't have sympathy for them either but I need an excuse to avoid confronting how poorly women are treated in society".

#like not to crank the misandry meter to 11 but i think that coomer men are too media illiterate to distinguish fantasy from reality #i write about fucked up shit but i can make a distinction btwn what I write and how I conduct myself like most yandere writers #but so many coomer men just...have that shit bleed into their real life #sloot bitches about things #btw this rant was from Invisible and ppl dreading if/when they adapt The Scene

[dirtstripe]

there are two (2) separate official pieces of art of that are ltierally just darkstripe getting drowned by 12 year olds. and you all let hollyleaf beat him in the poll for pathetic wet freaks. for shame

#misandry is real but it only happens to darkstripe #darkstripe #text

[autolenaphilia]

Sometimes I come across a post that is so obviously wrong that it begs for refutation, but like then I realize that I already refuted it, multiple times.

Like my post about feminism and this one about Farrell's fallacy, itself a re-iteration, handily refutes the screenshoted post above.

There are seldom any new arguments, just old ones heated over. The argument about working class guys male privilege has been a mainstay of anti-feminist arguments on the left for decades, at least since the 1960s.

This is a screenshot of part of an argument too, and how this anti-feminist is arguing tells me it's best to not engage. I'm not that interested in enduring abuse to prove that my daily experiences with transmisogyny are real.

I suppose this one is interesting because it outright states that they literally think "privileged" means having an "absolute position of power." This is a common mistake, but it's a strawman that ignores intersectional feminist analysis.

That's the underlying basis of all Farrell's fallacy type arguments, it ignores intersectional analysis. It assumes that if someone is marginalized on one axis, it means they can't possibly be privileged on another axis. So if a man is oppressed for being non-white or disabled or working class, it means he can't possibly have any male privilege. If they don't have absolute power, it isn't privilege. Thus any feminist claims about the patriarchy and male privilege are wrong.

The other hand of this argument is that any privilege women can have is used to deny the existence of misogyny. Here it is that mothers as parents have power of children, leading to abuse. The same blogger uses the white privilege of white women in the exact same way in another part of their argument.

I'm again repeating myself, but this is only an argument against the most simplistic non-intersectional feminist analysis possible. Men can have male privilege but also be oppressed for other reasons, such as racism, class and disability. Their marginalization curtails their male privilege, but it will show in comparison with women who experience marginalization for the same reasons. And women can be privileged on the basis of things like race and class, but that doesn't mean the misogyny they experience on the basis of being women isn't real. Misogyny isn't the only oppression out there, but that doesn't mean it isn't real. For more, see the posts linked above.

(Sidenote: the abusive mother argument in the screnshotted post is so dumb. Because yes, mothers frequently abuse their power over their children and we need youth liberation, but that ignores the context of how in the patriarchal family women often are reduced to only having power over her children. While men have power over both his wife and the children.)

It's all just using one axis of oppression to deny another. And because of widespread transmisogyny on this site even among supposed queer leftists, it's often misogyny that is denied.

#my writings #feminism #misandry is not real #misogyny #transmisogyny