#maybe its time to make him interact with the rest of them super begrudgingly

[grimmjowjaegerjaquez]

Remembering the brief period in my life when i was obsessed with ashido, the only filler character with rights bc kubo originally planned to include him in the manga but had to cut him for time

#bleachposting #maybe its time to think about him again since i think about arrancar and hueco mundo so much #maybe its time to make him interact with the rest of them super begrudgingly #hey soul society we found one of your guys living in our basement. yeah he couldnt figure out how to leave. yeah for like 100 years. #do you want him back or. #listen i think hed be kind of upset to see how many parallels he has with the arrancar #wrt being stuck in survival mode for so long and trying to figure out how to be a person again #like can you see it. can you smell what im saying. #and also more frustrations he tries to ignore regarding his zanpakuto still not telling him its name #and it wont until he kind of. accepts some things about himself. #also maybe he should have cool fights with them and gain a mutual respect. listen. im right. #i remember wanting to make an rp blog for him #and it did exist briefly but i was so nervous about it #i dont think i ever advertised it on my other blogs. does it still exist?? did tumblr ever nuke it?? i cant remember the name #anyway during my brief obsession with him i projected on him super hard and made him trans. why? because. i could. #will i keep him that way? probably. just in a different way. #he hasnt had to deal with normie societal expectations in a long ass time. gender is whatever to him. thog dont caare. #he may have been holding onto the duties of a shinigami as a last straining tether to his sanity but like. that shit is going to snap. #its just a matter of when. and only THEN will he be able to move forward i think. instead of just being stuck the way he is. #like yeah he is literally stuck since shinigami cant make gargantas. but he is also metaphorically stuck. see it writes itself. #APPARENTLY HES IN ONE OF THE LIGHT NOVELS AND TRAINS A BABY CIEN?? THATS SO CUTE WTF

[fixfoxnox]

I've been on an angst kick I think but I want to keep that to myself for a bit longer (I have plans and the haters will try to stop me) so for now I want to share more thoughts on the Roach whose love language is food thing:

Thinking about someone who Soap used to work with or something similar coming up to base and like working with the team for a bit. Roach can tell immediately that Soap is rather excited about getting to see one of his old buddies again, so he's excited for Soap.

The guy shows up and Roach finds himself immediately less excited when he notices the way that Soap seems to revert back into obsessively watching what he's eating, only eating a little, and avoiding any of the usual treats that Roach knows he likes. It isn't near as bad as it used to be and many people don't even notice the shift, but Roach does. Roach also notices that most of the time Soap is denying himself things is when he's around his old "buddy".

Roach doesn't say anything, but he is very closely watching the interactions between Soap and this guy and like trying to make sure that Soap isn't left alone with him for too long.

Cut to the guys last day on base and Roach has made a big meal for the team to celebrate a successful operation (and for Roach to celebrate Soap's friend leaving). All is going well, Roach has managed to keep Soap happily eating his food without paying any attention to what he's eating or how much he is. Its all going extremely well, then they get to dessert.

Roach makes multiple things like a pie, brownies, pastries, etc. He also made a point to make Soap's favorite dessert (red velvet cake but like super fancy cause Roach made it) because he thought Soap deserved to have something super sweet (which he always thinks Soap deserves to have something sweet) after whatever struggle his friend being there had caused.

Roach brings everything out and Soap is literally vibrating in his seat over the cake. Roach cuts him a big piece and Soap starts digging in. Soap is halfway through his piece of cake when his "friend" like scoffs and says "I guess I know now why you've put on some weight. The Soap I knew wouldn't have even gone near that." Or something along those lines.

The dining room falls silent, Soap pauses and his face falls. Roach see's the way that he hesitantly looks back to his food before dropping the fork. Everyone is tense, Price, Gaz, and Ghost can see what's coming before it even happens. Still, none of them can stop Roach from whipping around and decking Soap's friend across the face, knocking him out cold.

Guy is passed out on the floor and Roach is just casually walking over to the fridge to grab ice for his hand. As Price and the others (begrudgingly) help the guy back up and to medical, Roach sits down at the table with Soap and starts talking him back up and offering him treats and encouraging him to finish up his food (maybe he even feeds him the rest of the cake).

Anyways Roach gets like very minor disciplinary action for it thanks to Price and Laswell meddling. Soap's "friend" is left with a broken nose and a loose tooth and nothing else to show for his time working with the 141. Everyone on base now knows that if you say shit about Soap's eating habits or his weight or anything like that you will likely face Roach's wrath.

#thoughts with luke #gary roach sanderson #john soap mactavish #call of duty #simon ghost riley #soaproach #captain john price #kyle gaz garrick #task force 141 #cod #cod mw2

[ynisamenace]

 Party For One

Warnings: sub! Aone being a flustered mess, confident dom! Reader, nsfw kinda (grinding, not pg-13 kissing), mention of drugs and alcohol, college au! Aone.

Word count: 2.3k

a/n: ok guys this is my first fanfic so apologies if it’s not too good or if the ending is too rushed. Constructive criticism is always welcome and pls don’t forget to like and/or reblog. Thank you!

Aone was not much of a party goer. Although his friends were more outgoing, he in fact was not. He was more of a homebody, mostly leaving his shared apartment with Kenji for school, to get more ramen from the corner shop near his uni or practice with his newly-formed volleyball team; courtesy of his newly-formed friend, Kanji. Then proceeding to come home to shower, nap, wake up, struggle with his homework and then sleep till the next day. He was about to start the fourth activity of his daily routine when the sound of the doorbell rang through the apartment.

Sighing, he left his spot at the kitchen island to open the front door, then trying to close it once Kanji’s face appeared behind it.

“Woah woah if you wanted some alone time, you should’ve just said that”, the cat-faced friend exclaimed, just barely slipping through the crack in the door. Face adorned with brown freckles and a smile seemingly super glued to his face, he looked like the poster boy of golden retriever boys, “Wouldn’t matter anyway since I’m still dragging you to Sugawara’s tonight.”

Ah yes, Suga’s party, the one Aone was being forced to go to as a favour for his new friend. The white haired boy uttered a grunt of disapproval as Kanji plopped down onto his couch.

“I’m telling you man, when girls see us walking in together with my beauty and your scowl-,” he smirked while giving Aone a once over, “-they’ll come flocking like parakeets.” Aone ignored his new friend’s rambling and was about to go back to his homework when his phone buzzed. Picking it up and looking at his crush’s name made him do a double take before realizing it was from his class groupchat.

Y/n❤: Someone better come pick me up or else I’m dumping the mary jane😤

Sugawara: You live on campus, how did you sneak it in?

Y/n❤: Come pick me up and I’ll tell you

Bsf/n: I can see I’m gonna be on y/n duty tonight. I’ll come get you in 5

Y/n❤: Girl I’ll literally marry you don’t play with me

                                         -5 minutes later-

Y/n❤: Psa to everyone in this groupchat, bsf/n and I are married now

Bsf/n: As long as you do my makeup for the party lol

Y/n❤: Deal

A slightly dejected sigh left the tall boy’s lips, wishing it was him y/n would joke about marrying to the- wait party?? The realization that y/n was going to the same party as him made heart race with anticipation and although he never talked to her in any of the classes they shared, Aone developed a massive crush on y/n just by seeing the way she interacts with others as well as her personality. Her presence when she walks into a room, beautiful coily/kinky hair either flowing or in a different ‘protective style’ (which Aone ended up googling the meaning to) and her face adorned with a smile so bright, he could feel his ears getting hotter just by its look, it would be foolish to think that no other person in his uni or elsewhere had already snatched her up. Which is why Aone never felt the need to let her know about how much he was falling for her.

He was pulled out of his thoughts by the sound of his roommate’s door opening, revealing a clearly tipsy Kenji trying and failing to button up the last button on his silk shirt.

“Is anyone g-gonna help or what..” he slurred, stumbling into the living room, planting himself right in front of Aone who begrudgingly helped him with the last button. Satisfied, the intoxicated boy walks over to Kanji on the couch who’s currently scrolling through his instagram feed. He gives Kenji a once over before giving a nod of approval to his outfit. He turns to the tall, white haired boy, “Aone go change, the party starts in 10 and you know it’ll take us half an hour to get there!”, he exclaimed gesturing to Aone with his hands in a shooing manner. He didn’t understand what was wrong with his gray shirt and black sweatpants but went to his room to go change anyway, returning six minutes later sporting a green and white checkered shirt with dark blue jeans and black levis. The trio hurriedly leave their apartement, Kanji practically dragging both boys to his car before appointing Aone as the designated driver as the boy was the only one who had no intention to drink at the party.

The ride to the party took much more than half an hour as Aone was forced to drive while simultaneously trying to stop the two boys at the back from drinking any more of the pregame Kanji brought as well as preventing Kenji from messing with the aux cord. In the end, both boys settled on playing Ei8th mile on repeat the rest of the drive, both alternating between rapping DigDat and Aitch’s lines. Finally getting to the address Sugawara sent to the group, the trio hopped out of the car and went to knock on the door, opening to reveal the silver haired boy in all his glory wearing a burger king crown and a drunk smile.“You guys look li-hiccup-ke you had a fun drife here”, opening the door wider to reveal flashing red and purple strobe lights, living room filled with drunk and soon-to-be drunk college students and a hiphop song playing with a loud base that almost made Aone’s teeth clink. The two drunk boys wasted no time heading to the make shift bar in the kitchen, Aone following reluctantly behind feeling quite awkward in the party setting. Even worse, he was unable to spot y/n in the crowd making his heart drop lower into his stomach.

 No no no no. 

Even though Aone didn’t think y/n would like him the way he likes her, he was hoping he could at least use this party to make himself known to her, maybe forming a friendship with her first before professing his love. Dejectedly, he trudges to the bar, sulking next to his now very drunk friends who are far more interested with the designs on the kitchen counter. 

“Dude it’s so swirly…how do they make it like that?” one of the boys asks.

“Bro it has to be like a top secret thing. Like in the dark web,” the other replied, his eyes widening as his pupils are blown out more.

Not wanting to deal with their drunk conspiracies, Aone heads to the store room in search for some water after not seeing any laid out. Finding a bottle, he quickly gulps it down, faintly hearing the song in the living room change to one with a much deeper base. Leaving the store with his thirst finally quenched, he recognizes the song as Cold by Rico Nasty, her gravely voice echoing around the living room and drowning out some of the chatter which Aone was grateful for.

Ridin’ in a Maserati

Like Scotty I’m with two hotties

I ain’t just walk in the party-

“I brought the drugs to the partyyyy”, a voice which made Aone’s heart beat faster screamed, Y/n bursting through the front door with a medium sized pack of marijuana and a tray of what he assumes are pot brownies as the crownd cheered at her arrival. Her eyes wide with excitement, hair in cute little bantu knots (which Aone noted is now probably his favourite hairstyle on her), and dazzling smile still glued to her face. Making a bee line to the kitchen to drop the stuff she was holding, she hugged and greeted the people closest to her, making Aone regret not standing closer to the front door before realizing she was making her way straight to him.“Hi Polar Bear!” her scent of f/p enveloping him as she hugged his stomach, hair right next to nose, making the boy short-circuit. Y/n is hugging me. Me. Hugging. She smells so good. I should probably hug her back. But what if that’s weird. Hugging me. I’m gonna marry her. I’m gonna throw u-

“Takanobu woohoo you good?” she whispered in neck, drawing him out of his daydream, while at the same time making blood rush to his lower region. His eyes widen as he turns to see her staring right at him, inches apart and eyes questioning.

“I-I’m doing well y/n, um you uh look great tonight”, he managed to blurt out, his compliment making her lips curve into that signature smile. He unconsciously let out a low groan as he felt his jeans tighten even more as his mind raced a mile a minute, envisioning her on top of him, smile turning into a smirk as she runs her hands over his body making him squirm. His neck, his nipples, his happy trail, his-

Once again brought out of his daydream, he looked around to see y/n already gone and dancing in the living room, her presence making her look ethereal in the flashing lights. Smiling slightly, Aone deciding to stop before his imagination made him cream in his pants, decided to go look for his friends spotting both of them laying near a potted plant in the hallway caressing the leaves and muttering under their breaths. He discreetly goes back to the store, getting two bottles of water and placing them on either side of his friends, knowing they’ll be shocked at it ‘appearing’.

Sighing tiredly, he briefly thinks of just driving back to his apartment having already seen his crush and hugged her, but decided against it not wanting to feel guilty for abandoning his intoxicated friends. He was about to go to the backyard looking for some fresh air before he heard his name being said in the crowd. Turning around too quickly he bumped into someone, gripping their waist and letting their scent envelop him before he caught a glimpse of their hair. 

Yes yes God yes

“Nobu I’m so sorry, I was trying to get your attention but you didn’t turn around!” y/n exclaimed, gripping his shirt making the boy realize his grip on her waist was tightening significantly. He quickly tried to let go but y/n wasn’t having any of it and planted his large palm on her backside, squeezing a little. Aone’s face had never been as red as it is now from that simple action. Clearing his throat, he gives a tentative squeeze to gauge her reaction and seeing the smirk on her face as her pupils darken. She finally releases her grip on his hand and turns to the dance floor, Aone follow behind.

 As they reach the dance floor, afrobeats fill the air as joro by wizkid which Aone knew was one of y/n’s favourite songs) plays turning the energy of the party to a slower tempo. Y/n turns to the tall boy, once more putting his hands on her waist, before pulling him closer to her, their bodies now pressed against eachother.

Aone can feel her grinding on his pants and begs to any God who’ll listen to please not let him pop a boner right now. Her mouth comes closer to his ear and he can feel her breath making shivers run down his spine. “I could feel it you know…” she whispers as his eyes widen, embarrassment from though him as he realizes she felt the first boner he popped while hugging her in the kitchen “…didn’t peg you as the type. What a pervert you are Nobu.”   

That small gesture almost made Aone cream in his pants. Almost. If not for the overwhelming shame he would feel if someone saw him, his dick was already as hard as can be. A murmur left Aone’s lips and y/n has to strain her neck to hear him over the sound of the music flowing through the house.

“What was that Nobu?”

“P-plea-ase,” he whispers, ears a bright shade of red as y/n smirks looking him in the eye to see his pupils blown out, clouded with lust and feeling his member poking her in the thigh.

“Please what Nobu?” their lips almost touching.

“..Please kiss me”

“That’s all you had to say ya damn polar bear”, finally pressing her lips on his and making the butterflies in his stomach turn into fireworks. He really couldn’t believe it. His head felt like it was about to burst from all the blood that rushed into it. Her lips felt so much better, so much better than his imagination. Her hands sliding up to his neck and slipping into the hair on the nape of his neck, he uttered a low groan giving access to y/n to slip her tongue onto his. Aone could feel his precum dampening his briefs and hoped that a dark spot wouldn’t be visible by the end of the night. She tried to break the kiss, his head leaning closer not letting her go until she tugged hard on his nape hair forcefully, a string of saliva still connecting them.

“What a needy boy”, she smirked, letting go of him to swipe at the corner of his lips. “Why didn’t I come speak to you earlier?”, he didn’t care because for him, this really was worth the wait.

 Aone was not much of a party goer, but he’d have to thank his friends in the morning for forcing him to go to this one.

Tags: @itzgabz22

#aone x reader #dom!reader #haikyuuxblackreader! #aone x y/n #haikyuu!! #blackreader! #sub!aone #ceowrites

[classic80sand90smovieloves2]

Meeting and Dating Max Dennison

(Not my gif)(Requested by anonymous)

- You met Max after he moved to Salem. The two of you were in the same History class and sat fairly close to each other. Because of this; and the fact that you’re drop dead gorgeous, he quickly developed a crush on you.

- It doesn’t take long for him to shoot his shot but there is a period in time where he’s waiting for the right moment to say something and just doing the typical “I have a crush on you” things.

- When Max has a crush, he’ll do whatever he can to see them more; making sure he’s behind them on his bike as they begin to walk home, sneaking glances at them in class, strategically sitting at a lunch table where he’ll be able to watch them or standing close to their locker.

- Once he’s had enough of just watching, he’ll move on to using any excuse he can to seem cool and/or talk to them. This is usually when he begins to come up with a plot to ask them out and it’s not long after that he actually does so.

- Max asks you out only about a week or so after he moves to Salem. He was just planning on giving you his phone number or asking if you’d like to hang out sometime but things didn’t really go as planned.

- He’d wanted to go out and explore the town by himself but his parents forced him to take Dani with him while they continued to unpack. So, he begrudgingly let his sister join him on his adventure, figuring that the worst that could happen was her slowing him down and slightly annoying him.

- They’d gotten a good ways into town without a hitch; besides Dani forcing him to pick flowers, and Max had just about let his guard down. Well, that was until he saw you.

- He immediately froze in place, greeting you in surprise as you just so happened to turn and spot them. Dani immediately connected the dots as to who you were, she’d heard her brother secretly fawn over you more than once.

- It was only after you glanced down at his hand that Max remembered he was holding his sisters wildflower bouquet. He laughed nervously, raising his hand a bit and trying to make himself seem less like a loser as he explained he was looking after his little sister …and her flowers.

- While Dani is undoubtedly an adorable sweetheart, she is also somewhat devious. She uses this delightful coincidence to get her way, mentioning that Max was “just about to take her to the park”. He was just about ready to kill her before you chimed in.

“Aww, that’s so sweet!” Bingo.

- He immediately acted as though that was the plan all along and invited you to join them while Dani smiled at her obvious success. A cute boy asking you to go to the park with him and his little sister, why wouldn't you agree?

- So you joined the two of them, laughing and watching on fondly as he played with Dani and getting to know each other more and more whenever she went off to do something on her own. You wound up staying there for hours and probably would have stayed even longer if Dani hadn’t mentioned that her feet hurt and that she was tired. 

- If Max had learned anything at all, he learned that you thought it was cute when he was nice to his sister, so he offered her a piggyback ride as the three of you walked home. When you arrived at your house, he set Dani down and walked you to your door. 

”Well, if you ever want to go to the park again, you know who to call.” He smiled, handing you his number before joining back with his sister. 

“Dani? Have I ever told you that I loved you?” The little girl couldn't help but smile at her goofy older brother. 

- The two of you had your first actual date a few days later. He took you to the movies, then to go get some ice cream, and finally you wound up back at the park you’d gone to, sitting on the swing and eating your dessert. 

- He told you that you had something on your face, smiling as he leant in and kissed the corner of your mouth before slowly making his way to your lips. 

- It was in that moment; with your lips pressed against his, that Max thought to himself maybe Salem wasn’t so bad after all. 

- Innocent pda all the time. He just can’t help himself when you’re standing right there and looking so adorable.

- Handholding whenever you can. You swear he’s gonna learn how to be ambidextrous with how much he wants to keep your hand in his.

- Soft, chaste kisses.

- Cheek kisses. He can never hold back a smile when you give him one.

- He likes keeping his arm around your waist while you walk together. He likes how perfectly you fit into his side.

- Tight hugs. He does that thing where you give the person a squeeze and sorta sway with them while you hug, it’s very nice.

- Hugs from behind. He always presses a kiss to your head before he pulls away.

- This boy literally daydreams about cuddling his crush; he’d adore cuddling you anytime, anyplace. He usually wants to be the big spoon but he’d be up for any type of snuggling.

- He leans his head on yours whenever you rest your head on his shoulder.

- Hanging out with him in his widows walk, stargazing or watching the sunset/sunrise.

- He really doesn’t care what the two of you do as long as you’re together.

- Typical teenager dates: going bowling or roller skating, watching movies, getting pizza or ice cream; things like that.

- He tries to make you laugh with little impressions and exaggerative comedic routines.

- Getting teased a lot. He’ll pop out from behind corners to spook you, jokingly mock you and your little superstitions, and attack you from behind, wrapping his arms around you and growling while nuzzling his face into your neck. He thinks your reactions are cute.

- Watching him play his drums. Sometimes he’ll try and teach you how to play, othertimes he’ll just try to show off.

- He really wants you to think he’s cool and to be in awe of him. He’s constantly trying to show off and peacock for your attention.

- He’s quite fond of nicknames and pet names. He uses special ones though, something uniquely you.

- He keeps your photo framed on his nightstand or tucked under his pillow. He kisses it like every morning and night, occasionally talking to it when you’re mad at him or when he doesnt know what to do in a situation. It’s cute ...in an odd way.

- He’s in awe of you everytime he sees you dressed up or after a long time of not seeing each other. Sometimes he just can’t believe how beautiful you are.

- The amount of doodles he’s made of you while in class couldn’t even fit in a normal sketchbook.

- Dani is always interrupting the two of you, busting into his room and jumping between you as you sit on his bed or forcing her way between you two on the couch. She winds up accompanying you on a few of your dates, especially when his parents are busy. He can’t say he’s completely upset about it though, he likes watching you interact with her.

- You and her are probably best friends and occasionally hang out on your own without Max. She’s definitely spilled some embarrasing facts/secrets about Max whether one front of him or not.

- He’s sort of embarrassed by his family and their shenanigans. He turns bright red whenever they start acting all excited/childish. You cant imagine his relief when you assure him that you think its cute.

- He has a little sister so even though he’s a fairly typical teenage boy; he has that “I actually respect females” mindset. To an extent of course, he still can’t help but think about your yabbos from time to time.

- There isn’t a lot that grosses him out anymore since he was already a little grown up by the time his parents had Dani. He had to go through all those yucky baby phases so he has no problem holding your hair as you puke, bandaging your cuts, dealing with periods, wiping dirt off of you, and so on. Life’s gross, he’s accepted that a long time ago.

- Standing up for him. He finds it both embarrassing and touching at the same time.

- Letting him rant to you about how much he misses LA. He always absentmindedly adds on that you’re the only good thing to come out of Salem and it never fails to make you melt.

- Comforting him. He has a tendency to blame himself when things go wrong or work himself into a fit when something bad happens. You try to make sure he doesn't while also making him feel better. He’s always there for you when you need it as well.

- He’s a sweetheart and an adorable one at that. He’s always trying to make you feel better whenever he can and; overall, just being super nice to you. Making sure you’re happy is very important to him.

- He’s got a hard time keeping his mouth shut; he just cant help but say what he wants and not inconspiciously or very quietly either. You’ll oftentimes have to get him out of a situation before he starts more trouble than there has to be.

- Bringing out the best in each other.

- He sends a glance your way whenever someone mentions lovers, couples, or otherwise romantic things. It’s sort of like he’s saying “yeah, I’ve got one of those” or making future plans for the two of you in his head.

- Riding your bikes together or walking alongside him while he purposefully keeps pace with you on his.

- Going on stupid little adventures. They may be a bit reckless but they sure are fun.

- He’s somewhat of a pushover. He can very rarely resist your pleading/puppy dog eyes, especially when its combined with affection. You could genuinely stop him in his tracks with a single touch.

- You’ve definitely convinced him to let you put a face mask on him, braid his hair or do his makeup. Dani may or may not have been present or at least walked in on the two of you. She has not let him live it down since.

- He’s not scared of the supernatural; at least not yet, or spiders/insects, so he leaps at the chance to “protect you”. He tells you to “fear not” as he “vanquishes the beast”, delicately pushing you behind him and killing the thing or calling out to whatever ghouls may be lurking around.

- He insists in walking you home, mainly because it gives him the chance to spend more time with you.

- A trait he’s developed as an older brother is being protective of his loved ones. He won’t let anything happen to you; if he can help it, and usually has a pretty good plan when trying to get you out of trouble.

- He’s not an extremely jealous person. People being outwardly flirty or interested in you would tick him off but he reasons that you want him, not them and then he’s fine. Old boyfriends don’t bother him either, he’s your new and improved boyfriend; what would you want with them.

- He lashes out when he’s upset so you’ve definitely had your fair share of fights though they never last for very long. He immediately feels bad when he notices he’s actually hurt you and does whatever he can to apologize.

- He starts off with a genuine apology before he trying to explain himself, making a few little comments to try and get you to smile afterwards. Once you seem to forgive him, he shyly opens his arms and smiles as you go to hug him.

- He tells you that he loves you a lot; he just can’t help it. Everything you do makes him want to shout it out to the world.

- Prior to meeting you, he didn’t want to go to Salem at all, but now that he has you? He can’t bring himself to even think about leaving it.

#hocus pocus imagine #hocus pocus headcanons #hocus pocus headcanon #Max Dennison imagine #Max Dennison headcanons #Max Dennison headcanon #90s movie imagines #90s movie headcanon #90s movie headcanons #90s movie imagine

[bumbleberrysky]

alexa, play candyshop (bass boosted) | 03

pairing: gabriel x reader genre: soulmate au, canon divergent around s13, hurt/comfort, humour, future smut (probs) wc: 3.7k rating: sfw warnings: none really

You knew there was a reason some divine power brought you to the Winchesters all those years ago, but to this day you still have no idea what that reason is. It’s something you’re destined to find out soon though, especially when you return to the bunker after months away and find not only a new face, but one that belongs to someone who up until that point you’d thought was dead. What does his return have to do with the changes you’re suddenly experiencing in yourself? Will you finally find out the reason you’d been brought here in the first place? Maybe…

Chuck works in mysterious ways after all.

prev. || next

“Well, whatever it says, we’re gonna have to wait until Cas and Dean get back before we can decipher it.”

You huff, sparing a glance to the angel huddled in the corner, resting his head against the drawers beside his bed. It’s been a few days since you’d first come back and you wish you could say you’ve had all sorts of good progress with Gabriel, but the truth is that you haven’t. He has receded so far into himself that a part of you is actually worried the archangel you knew is gone completely.

“I’m a bit worried,” you admit quietly to Sam after a moment. He turns his gaze to you and you hold it. “He’s… he’s worse than I thought.”

And, put bluntly, you’d thought he was bad.

Sam doesn’t say anything, merely releases your gaze and turns to survey the room once more; the walls are plastered in a scrambled mess of what you can only guess is enochian. You’re not sure when Gabriel had the chance to do it, but you know that earlier you’d visited him to offer him a portion of his grace back and he’d refused, so you’d left and when you returned some time later the walls were like this.

“Did Dean say when they were going to be getting back?” you ask, wringing your hands.

“He didn’t respond to my text, so I can only assume he’s driving.” Sam huffed a laugh. “Cas forgot to charge his phone again so I can’t reach him either.”

You purse your lips, trying not to smile. Of course, it is the little things that Castiel forgets. Like that wireless technology needs charging, that Beyonce is too well known to be used as a cover name, and those straws that don’t always come with fast food drinks.

You’re about to speak when the faint sound of metal hitting metal echoes through the bunker, heavy footsteps on steel stairs following suit.

“Well, I guess that saves us asking,” you say, patting Sam on the arm as you move past. The two of you depart Gabriel’s room, sparing him one last concerned glance before you close the door behind you.

“I’m home! And I brought food!”

Yeah, that’s definitely Dean. You just hope Castiel came in with him so he can see his brother and read the scribble on the walls.

x     x

 The scribble, as Castiel informed you, is a thrilling account of Gabriel’s Story, so to speak. What happened to him after his so-called ‘death’, and you tuned out for a fair amount of it (mostly during the detailed recount of time spent with porn-stars in Monte Carlo) but heard the important bits, like how he was traded in to Asmodeus and what the Prince of Hell then proceeded to do to him for the years following.

It saddened you, despite it being largely something you already suspected if not knew.

After listening to Castiel read the enochian on the walls, you’d had to leave. Uncharacteristic of you, and Dean had given you an odd look as you passed him in the hallway, but you couldn’t spend another minute in there. You felt bile rising to the back of your throat.

You really don’t have an explanation for why you’re reacting so strongly, so viscerally, to everything that has to do with Gabriel. Like you’d affirmed earlier, you only really met and interacted with him a handful of times! You aren’t close with him, haven’t known him extensively—

So why do you have this gaping pit of loss and grief in your stomach, like you’ve lost a limb?

It doesn’t make sense, and you’re not sure if you can make it make sense, honestly. You’d like to be able to put it on the backburner too, but every time you try it just creeps its way back to the forefront of your mind. In a bid to distract yourself, you hole yourself up in your room for the rest of the day, marathoning whatever dumb show is on TV. If you’re lucky, the entertainment channel might have old reruns of Neighbours. That never fails to make you laugh with its exaggerated soapy drama.

To your disappointment, the only thing playing in a marathon fashion is Family Guy, and with a sigh you bundle up in your covers and resign yourself to the afternoon. Well, if you wanted to numb your brain then this result isn’t so bad after all.

You spend the rest of the afternoon in your room, and pass out at some indiscernible hour. When you wake next, it’s a ridiculously early hour of the next morning and the TV is still running. You have a cramp in your neck from your odd sleeping position, and you rub it with a scowl as you emerge from the blankets and turn off the TV. You slept way too long, and there’s no way you can get back to sleep now.

Begrudgingly, you slip from your bed and into a standing position, relishing in the stretch you feel as you lengthen your tight, tense limbs. The floor is cold against your feet but you’re too lazy to search for the slippers that came with your room and instead just go on your way. Destination: kitchen.

You feel like a ghost, wandering the silent halls of the bunker. Dean is most definitely passed out by this point, and Sam… well he’s probably asleep, but you wouldn’t bet on it. That psychopath could also be out jogging. You’re so zoned out that you don’t even realise you’ve reached the kitchen until you stub your toe on the doorframe.

“FUCK!” you curse, managing to restrain yourself from howling like a lunatic just barely, at the last second. You double over, heaving in a big breath. Of course it had to be the little toe—

“y/n? Are you alright?”

The low, gravelly tone that brushes your ears is familiar and always welcome. You stick your thumb up so Castiel doesn’t worry while you grasp your bearings. When you find your voice, you follow up the gesture with a squeaky, “Fine! Peachy.”

“I would remind you that I can tell when you are lying, but I don’t think you aimed to be very believable.”

You straighten, throwing Castiel a bright smile despite the pain still throbbing in your foot. You should have looked for the slippers—this is your hubris catching you slipping.

“Sorry Cas, I shouldn’t be sarcastic. I’m fine, but I think one of these days I’m gonna break my toe for real on that stupid doorframe.”

Unfortunately, this isn’t your first run-in with the doorway. If anyone asked, you would tell them that the design of the hallway is atrocious and that door is not where it’s meant to be. Well, it’s not where you expect it to be every time you come to the kitchen, and is clearly an obvious design flaw.

The angel lets out a soft noise of understanding, lips twitching in the ghost of a smile. “Perhaps. You don’t seem to have very good luck with doorframes.”

“Nope, I definitely do not,” you respond, shaking your foot out before moving over to the fridge and checking to see if Dean bought strawberries. A noise of delight escapes you as you find what you’re looking for, several punnets stacked in the back corner. Ah, and they say old dogs can’t learn new tricks—Dean is a very good learner with the proper motivation!

(Pavlov would be proud of you.)

Castiel has a smile on his face as he watches you remove one of the punnets, hopping up onto the bench facing him and flicking the plastic open. He approaches, movements fluid and calm, and for a few moments you sit in comfortable silence. He is the first to break it.

“y/n… are you alright?” At his repeated question you give him a confused look, and he hurries to elaborate. “I mean… with everything. With Gabriel. I noticed how you left, yesterday.”

Ah. Well, you knew that you hadn’t been subtle, but you hadn’t been sure whether anyone was going to question you on it. You munch on a berry as you think, gaze flicking to the side. You wouldn’t dream of telling Sam or Dean about the odd sensations you’d been feeling, despite the fact they knew how you’d reacted to the news of Gabriel’s death, but Castiel… you felt comfortable confiding this in him.

“Well… yes, and no.” You drop the top of the strawberry into the lid of the punnet and reach for another. “To be honest, I don’t really understand what is going on with me. It’s like… super overactive empathy. It just hurts, to see him that way. And it makes me sad, knowing what he went through. Painfully so.”

Castiel nods, light eyes on you as he listens attentively and with care. You chew through another two berries before continuing. “Hearing it straight from him—well, as straight from him as it could be, I suppose—it just got to be a bit much for me. I had to leave. It just… made me feel a bit sick, is all.”

The look on the angel’s face is pensive, and it’s as though you can see his mind whirring a mile a minute behind the sky of his eyes. “I see,” he murmurs, gaze flicking to the side as he thinks. “Well, you are a very kind soul, so I am not surprised by your empathy. Though, if it is affecting you so strongly…”

He pauses, eyes finding your own again. “If you feel ill again, come find me. I’ll help as much as I can.”

You smile at him, every moment as sincere as you’ve ever been. “Thanks, Cas. I really appreciate it.”

x     x

Sam must have done or said something to Gabriel while you were locked up in your room, because there seemed to be a sudden change in his progress.

For the better, you think. Well, you hope.

He was a little less withdrawn, a little less manic and fidgety. He still doesn’t really speak, and doesn’t react well to loud noises or sudden movements, but Sam told you he had spoken last night.

To correct him about calling the Monte Carlo porn-stars ‘hookers’, of course. You’d wanted to slam your head into the tile wall when you’d heard that.

The day passed quickly after your encounter with Castiel, and you spent it cleaning and polishing your weapons—you don’t want to go down as that one stupid hunter whose greatest folly was improper upkeep of her arsenal. Only when you’d polished your machete to a gleaming shine did you admit that it was likely time for a break. You thought it had only been a few hours, so when you wandered out and found that it was actually almost dinner time, you’d been pretty surprised.

Sam had run into you in the hallway and filled you in, and afterwards had insisted on accompanying you to the kitchen. It seems you spend a lot of your time there, now you think about it.

The large, industrial-feeling space is where you find yourself now, making a lazy stir-fry from pre-packaged vegetables and beef. You’d tasked Sam with cooking the rice since he’d insisted on lingering for conversation, and since you trust that he’s more capable than his brother you don’t bother checking on his progress.

“Castiel was worried when he first saw Gabriel, but after seeing the writing he’s happy because it means the Gabriel we know is still in there, somewhere.” Sam updates you from your side, sniffing and peering into the wok before you in mild interest. “That smells good. You sharing?”

“Maybe,” you answer him, giving him a sly look. “Depends… you got any of that guilt-free ice cream hiding in the freezer?”

Sam peers around to make sure his brother isn’t listening before nodding, “Back corner, behind the frozen berries. We got a deal?”

“Pleasure doing business with you, young Winchester,” you answer with a shake of his hand, putting on an accent for his benefit. He snorts, moving away to grab two bowls—good timing, you have to note, since the stir-fry is almost done. “Kind of sad you still have to hide it from Dean, though.”

“Are you kidding? He has a nose like a bloodhound for sweets,” Sam says, coming back with porcelain in tow. “Did I ever tell you about the time he found an industrial-size bag of Hershey’s kisses I bought? I hid it in the vents in the dustiest corner of the library, and he still found it. That was meant to last me months and he tore through it in a week.”

You blink, mildly impressed. You knew he had a sweet tooth but you didn’t know it was that bad. “Dude, get your brother some therapy.”

Sam snorts, muttering something about how it would be easier to herd cats and juggle at the same time. You’re distracted for the moment by an errant thought that filters across your mind at the mention of chocolates.

Gabriel, in his time spent as a trickster, developed quite the soft spot for them… could it…?

You stir the food before you once more before taking the wok off the heat, moving it to the wooden chopping board on the bench; Sam takes initiative and turns off the stove behind you, something you’re thankful for.

You’ll have to test your theory after dinner.

x     x

The chocolates and candies you’d left for Gabriel after you’d had your dinner are, to your delight, gone the next time you see him.

You’d placed them on a tray for him outside the room and knocked, letting him know you had left him something. Of course, after that no matter how much you wished to stay you forced yourself to be on your merry way so he could retrieve them in peace. The rest of the night had been spent arguing with Dean about the proper name a werewolf-vampire hybrid should be called—not because you have an important opinion on the matter, of course, but because Dean gets very fired up about the subject and it’s very funny to behold.

Back to the point, when you’d returned on your trip past Gabriel’s room this morning (on your way to the kitchen, as anyone would expect), the tray had been placed neatly to the side with the wrappers twisted into the shape of a big, shiny bow. Kind of impressive, especially since you have no idea how he got them to stay stuck together like that.

It made you happy, though, that he’d eaten them. Angels don’t need to eat, of course, but he’d seemed to develop a taste for them ever since adopting the mask of Loki so you thought it might help make him feel a little more like himself.

You try not to think about it too much because it actually makes you a bit embarrassed— why are you so invested? You don’t quite want to know.

Currently, you’re settled in the library with your legs crossed and a tome on celestial beings in your lap. By your side is a plate of celery and a jar of peanut butter, and Dean, who is seated at the oak table with Castiel across from him, is giving you periodic looks of disgust and twisted curiosity. He’d started off attempting to read up on some monster—you suspected it was Werepires, after last night’s argument—while Sam popped off to the store for groceries, since Mary and Jack were meant to be returning tonight. The keyword to note here is attempting; each crunch of celery between your teeth yanks his gaze from the book to you and you can tell its wearing on him. Castiel says nothing, having discovered candy crush on his phone earlier, and merely glances between the two of you every now and then with a faint look of amusement.

“Alright,” He finally breaks after your third stick of celery, giving it a look like it personally offends him. “How can you eat that? Just use a spoon if you like peanut butter so much.”

“What the fuck, ew,” you comment, chomping loudly before dipping the stick into the jar for another coating. “I hate peanut butter.”

“You’re sitting there practically eating it out of the jar!”

“I get cravings sometimes, Dean!” you throw back, somewhat defensively. “It’s like when people eat vegemite—no one likes it, but you get cravings for it, you know?”

“What—ew, no, I don’t know!” Dean’s face has now crumpled into a complete look of disgust at the mention of that particular spread, and he shudders as he regards you. “Every time you leave I almost forget what a freak you are, and then you come back and I’m reminded all over again.”

The way he says it has no bite whatsoever, and you flash him a grin. You don’t realise Castiel has even been paying attention until he speaks, the humour lacing his deadpan tone the only give-away that he’s teasing.

“That wasn’t very nice, Dean. You eat some weird things for a human yourself—like that greasy, fried dessert from the stall in the food festival we drove through.”

Dean at first looks like he wants to argue, but at Castiel’s example a flush of green instead washes over his features. “Ugh, god that was gross. Don’t ever let me buy before I try at a food market again, Cas.”

Castiel snorts softly, turning back to his phone, “You have my word.”

Dean seems to have forgotten he was shaming you for your celery topping, his attention now directed back to the book before him. His face is still kind of pale and you assume he is now adequately distracted enough for you to continue eating in peace. After consuming the rest of the celery in your hold, you go to turn back to your own book. It isn’t meant to be, though, because in the next second the familiar sound of the heavy metal bunker door creaking open splits the air and Sam’s bright voice follows after.

“We’re back! We brought fried chicken.”

You slam the lid back on the peanut butter, putting it on the plate with the celery and launching to your feet in record time, the book unfortunate collateral. It’s like you’re possessed as you zoom into the kitchen, stomach alive and stirring at the mention of chicken despite the fact you’d already been eating.

Upon entry to the kitchen, you’re faced with two new people you have yet to be introduced to—considering you’re familiar with most of Sam and Dean’s other contacts by this point in your friendship, you presume that these two must be Jack and Mary, the Nephilim and the Winchester brother’s resurrected mother, respectively.

“Hello!” you greet, darting forward to help Sam with the food. He gives you a look that tells you he knows exactly why you’d come to help and gives you the bag full of groceries instead of the one with chicken, just to spite you. Your face falls into a pout but your voice is still cheery as you continue, “I’m y/n, I hunt with Dean off and on.”

Both of their faces light in recognition, and you realise that your reputation has preceded you. Exactly which reputation depends on which brother mentioned you—you imagine Dean would have had some very interesting comments to add.

“Hello,” the woman, Mary, speaks, and you’re taken aback by how soft-spoken she seems in contrast with the badass aura and get-up she’s got going on. You’re a little surprised to see her, considering she’s the same age as you presume she would have been when Sam was a baby. “I’m Mary, I’m sure you’ve heard about me. It’s a pleasure to meet you, and… thank you for looking after my boys over the years.”

You beam a grin and it must come across as a very shit-eating one because you hear Dean groan from the next room over as he ambles to join the crowd in the kitchen.

“Don’t encourage her,” he says gruffly as he enters the kitchen, hugging his mother and ruffling Jack’s hair before following his nose to the bag with the chicken in it. “She’ll never let it go.”

“I’m Jack!” Your attention is torn from the previous interaction and redirected to the youthful blonde man next to Mary, grinning at you brightly. “I’ve heard so much about you—it’s nice to finally meet you!”

“Oh, you’ve heard about me?” you can’t help yourself from asking, and you hear Dean’s groan echo behind you. “All good things, I hope.”

It’s a little unfair of you to be fishing in the Jack pond for little tidbits you can use to bully Dean later, considering he’s literally barely a year old and doesn’t really know better to keep his mouth shut, but it is what it is. The question left you out of habit more than anything.

“Oh, definitely,” Jack answers, going to help Mary the second he sees her struggle with a bag from the corner of his eyes, “Well, mostly. Dean—”

“Okay, that’s enough!” Dean interrupted loudly and pointedly, not-so-subtly holding his finger to his mouth to tell Jack to shut it. “Dinner time! Everyone into the library, we have a lot to catch up on.”

Begrudgingly you let it go and follow his directions. He has a point; there is definitely a lot of informing to be done, especially regarding the archangel in the room down the hall.

You take a seat and wait for your meal to be served. The night passes quickly from that point on, the brothers cracking out some beer and Dean snickering when you turn your nose up at it (bad experience, better not to remember it). You get to know Mary Winchester and Jack Kline a little better, and now with all of your heads put together you hope you can come up with a solution to the issues around Gabriel and his recovery.

Well, that and you’re going to see if you can get some good material out of Mary to tease the brothers with. When in Rome, after all!

prev. || next.

#supernatural #supernatural x reader #supernatural fanfic #supernatural gabriel x reader #gabriel x reader #reader insert #spn fanfic #spn gabriel #gabriel x you #supernatural gabriel x you #supernatural soulmate au #soulmate au #wing fic #hhhhhhhh #supernatural au #supernatural series #gabriel series

[sunshine-in-a-bottle]

I'm watching Beast Wars again for no reason and so you all have to hear me talk about it.

If I was personally given Rights I would first use them to erase Cheetors weird crush on Blackarachnia because it literally adds nothing to the plot or the characters. Instead I'd take full advantage of my personal headcanon and make Cheetor desperately want a big sister because I am always a slut for Found Family. Like, that scene with Una ?"Aw, she wants to be you!" Like c'mon viewing him reaching out to Blackarachnia because he desperately wants some semblance of a relationship is a lot more wholesome when it isn't romantically coded. Cheetor is Lonely, so horribly lonely, and so young seeming in comparison to the rest of the cast. He hasn't lost that love for the stars or spiraled into cynicism just yet, and I would much rather explore the ways he tries to reach out to his bitter, jaded teammates. And maybe he's left wanting, maybe he gets tired of being lonely, and maybe he fucks up trying to be like them because "he tried to prove himself." And maybe that scene where Optimus, Silverbolt, and Rattrap reach out to him has a little more weight because it isn’t just Cheetor trying to be an adult, but a Cheetor that tried to be them and post Feral Cheetor has real fucking consequences and isn't just a cool upgrade.

I want that episode where Rattrap finds out they spat on Dinobot’s memory by making him into a "dishonorable" clone and goes ballistic. I want him to find the memories Dinobot stowed away and be conflicted. Is it Dinobot without the spark? Could he live with only a shade? Would Dinobot even want that? I want him to try and fail and be utterly distraught over the whole damn thing. I want him to be angry every time he sees Dinobot 2. I want Rhinox to try and fail to comfort him. I want Cheetor to sit with him, neither speaking but both knowing they're in this fucked up mess together now. CONSEQUENCES. WHERE ARE THEY. GIVE THEM TO ME.

I also just really want Blackarachnia to have closer bonds with the team??? Idk, I'm vibin well enough with her and Silverbolt but tbh I'd really just like her to have an episode where she's hanging out with someone else and Isn’t A Complete Rude Person. I think that's something I actually really vibed with in Beast Machines (although my memory there is still pretty fuzzy, I'll probably have to rewatch that to say for sure) Blackarachnia could actually work with the team in a friendly and occasionally sweet way. She was capable of a blunt and angry sort of kindness. Should that happen right away? Nah of course not, she needs to get comfy with her shiny new Dumbfuck Teammates. But there’s no real Solid Connections there other than Silverbolt, which is purely romantic. (Once again I emphasize Cheetor and Found Family)

Rhinox just needs more in general. If I had to guess the reason he was made a villain in beast machines was because he is only Meh as a Developed character after Blackarachnia shows up and takes over tech wise, not to mention rattrap is also pretty damn techy when he wants to be.(it was also probably to increase tension since his whole deal is being diplomatic but that's a separate thing) Sort of an issue when you make them scientists but don't have them specialize in anything and, more importantly, have a weakness in anything. If your character is simply the backup scientist when the other one is out of commission u gotta problem. Rhinox is stagnant personality wise, I can’t honestly say anything about him changes in the whole series. He has functionally gained nothing from this perilous journey, no real trauma, no bonds he didn't already have with the team, not even an upgrade in form. Isn’t rattrap supposed to be his best friend???? SHOW ME MORE THEN. Seriously if this show had let me have Rights I’m not saying I wouldn’t have loved if we had actually Really Dug In to a character arc or something about Rattrap and the concept of Honor vs Loyalty but that’s exactly what I’m saying lets talk about that. Season One Rattrap they played with this a little (After the whole early on “I would not send someone to do something I would not do myself” and “double agent rattrap” WHICH NO ONE WOULD EVER BELIEVE IF THAT HAPPENED ANY LATER THAN IT DID SINCE RATTRAP IS SO ANTIPRED) and the whole Dinobot thing really wedged it in (”But at least you know where he stands”) AND THEN FROM MY SHODDY MEMORIES OF BEAST MACHINES ITS PLAYED WITH EVEN MORE WHEN HE FUCKING GOES TO MEGATRON BECAUSE EVERYONE WAS BEING A LITTLE BITCH TO HIM 

Where was I going with this? uhhhhhhhhhhhhh oh yeah LISTEN Rattrap and his morals are Very Fascinating and I really wished there was more about that. Like, he gives no shits about Doing What’s Right or Being A Good Person, but he rewards friendship and loyalty and not getting him killed by miles. And despite his Hatefest Dinobot he was actually really... shocked? Offended??? about Dinobot handing over the disc because you’re an asshole but you’re also our asshole what fuckery is this did all our arguments mean nothing to you. And then attempting to join Megatron in BM because he might be Evil and it might be Bad Moral Conduct but fuck morals his teammates were being shitty friends. Is that petty of him? Maybe, but if the maximals had been evil but still genuinely kind and caring towards Rattrap I don’t believe he would ever leave for a second, not for all the Morals or Its The Right Thing To Do in the world. And that’s why darkfics that still use Found Family are the best! The End.

All the characters would actually be the size of their animals because goddamit I want a tiny Rattrap that has to be carried around by the others while he screeches indignantly. Or at the very least make him just a little smaller. Just a bit. And maybe they all have a big Sleep Pile. I like physical affection and cuddling and things no I don't care if they're robots no I don’t take criticism. Dinobot would have feathers fight me.

Optimus has died, been tortured, and painfully grew to like 3 times his size why doesn’t he have ptsd someone give him a hug.

Could we have waited for Airrazor and Tigatron to get kidnapped???? We should have gotten more for them. Let me see them more often. LISTEN THEY’RE VERY CUTE I LOVE THEM SHUT UP. 

WHICH LMAO BRINGS ME RIGHT BACK TO CHEETOR BECAUSE HE CONSIDERED AIRRAZOR AND TIGATRON HIS BROTHER AND SISTER AND HE THINKS THEYRE GONE FOREVER AND THEN ITS NEVER REALLY BROUGHT UP AGAIN LIKE CHEETOR AND FOUND FAMILY REALLY SHOULD BE EXPLORED HERE

Silverbolt is fun, but suffers from the same problem as Blackarachnia where all you really remember about them Relationship wise is the one they have with each other. Who does Silverbolt like best among the maximals, who does he like the least? And if I'm erasing that weird Cheetor crush thing then their interactions probably have a lot less tension so... what else do they have.

Depth Charge is an unrepentant asshole and I love him. He is so hostile but it doesn’t stop him from begrudgingly helping out on occasion. He also gave Optimus some backstory??? Like not as much as my greedy Character Loving hands would have wanted but GIVE ME.

Other Stuff:

Nothing will ever be as funny as Optimus being like “Evacuate the base you’re all gonna die” and Rhinox grabbing his fucking plant

Blackarachnia Craves Power 

Cheetor suffer from Bad Bondage multiple times throughout the series, but specifically during the web I remember Tarantulas leaning over him and thinking “wow this is kind of... date gone wrong vibes??? What the fuck”

Rattrap and Dinobot: *Spot each other from any distance* Miracle Hatemance has entered the chat

Why is Megatron wearing roller skates. Who did this. Why.

“Spider/Bird dog is hetero nonsense” - everyone who has to bear witness to them ever, including me the viewer

Tarantulas is completely done with any attempts to seduce him. Ever.

Airrazor tries so hard to be cool and hip oh my god she is a complete dork i love her

“FOR THE ROYALTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY”

please be nice to Waspinator he’s trying his best

Rhinox: exists

Me: hello yes sir I love u wise mentor sir

Holy shit Dinobot’s death scene is a gut punch. Rattrap honestly is what makes this scene perfect. I have never seen him so respectful or emotional is a way that wasn’t meant for comedic relief.

That scene, man

Tigatron’s speech about bringing beast mode and robot mode together is like foreshadowing to beast machines. Or it isn’t. Idk. Would have been really nice if they, yknow,

bothered to bring up literally anything from the previous series to beast machines

 (yes its been awhile since I’ve seen Beast Machines, but I do remember that being my primary complaint.)

This series is so cheesy but Thundercats is still cheesier so its fine

Rattrap was canonically a miner at some point apparently.

He’s also super prejudiced and honestly that’s interesting. HONESTLY SOMETHING I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO SEE DISCUSSED IN BEAST MACHINES IS THE SUPER MEGA DIVIDE IN PREDS AND MAXIMALS BUT I GUESS WE WEREN’T GETTING THAT OH WELL

The ‘Everyone is blind’ episode was always one of my favorites and it never gets old

Upon rewatching the series I have concluded Cheetor is Babey. Which is weird because I didn’t think much of him from what I remember. Shift in perspective I suppose. They really made Rhinox farting the thing that saves the day, huh. What even was season one.

BITCH THAT IS A TERRIBLE WAY TO TRANSPORT MEGATRON NO WONDER HE FUCKING CONQUERED CYBERTRON Y’ALL DESERVED THIS HONESTLY

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh in conclusion:

Rattrap is my new religion apparently

#Beast Wars #listen listen listen #i have a lot of feelings #honestly I doubt this will be my actual conclusion im sure ill post this and instantly remembered something else to talk about #Look I have seen very little of the transformers honestly #I watched gen1 as a kid and beast wars and beast machine #and thats it #if you dont count a couple comics I have stashed in a drawer somewhere #i do not count them #I tried to read this over again #realized i dont know how formatting works #and have decided to just post it anyway so have fun with that

[cykosis]

pt 2.

part 1 is here

part 3 is here

As it turned out, he needed to drain energy from other organisms about as often, he figured, as he had needed to eat.  There were some changes, such as that he didn’t need to eat in the mornings as often as he’d needed to, or that using his ability drained the targets regardless so there was less need for dedicated eating time, but he found himself underwhelmed with the reality.  If he could vaporize someone in three seconds, it seemed stupid he still needed to eat every few hours like everyone else in the world.  The only thing he’d entirely lost need for was sleep, and that had been a reprieve from reality he hadn’t realized how much he would miss when it was gone.

           Being conscious indiscriminately was both a blessing and a curse.  If he physically laid down to rest, he was able to go through the same recovery process as sleep had provided him before all this.  His mind would sometimes even conjure up hallucinations to emulate dreams, if he knew he was in no danger from the wilderness.  It allowed him to stay aware, allowed him to keep himself oriented, allowed him to bypass the processes of both falling asleep and waking up. No longer did he have to worry about getting the appropriate amount of sleep, or sleeping on a “proper” mattress, or making sure he got his affairs in order before turning off his brain for the evening.

           But what he gained in awareness he lost in mental peace.  There was no longer a gap between sleep and wake, where he could wind down entirely and experience each day anew.  Time blurred together, leaving him counting the minutes between the sun’s appearance in the sky as well as its descent every day.  After a week it no longer did him any good to count the days by its position, as day and night felt like one and the same.  He had tried to keep his sleep cycle the same; movement in the day, sleep at night, but the unbearableness of lying in stillness for eight hours burned through that fantasy within the same week.

           It felt like he was above normal life, though. Each night, though he dreaded the darkening of the sky all day, he laughed to himself at the fact that people in towns had no choice but to end their days because of fatigue.  When he had been young, at least, he had hated the idea of sleeping.  Regardless of if it were driving him crazy all the same, at least he wouldn’t die of it like regular people would.

             On what felt like month three of his journey, he collapsed on the ground and screamed.  He’d probably been going the wrong way this whole time; it hadn’t been a straight shot from the swamp, and he had known that, but he’d avoided Yvas along the way because he hadn’t wanted to be seen by regular people.  And now he was probably lost forever in the rest of the undeveloped country, doomed to wander the coast of Serason forever until he got to Virolia.  Unless he wound up going the wrong way again and in one of the endless swamps and forests of this continent.

           As if by chance, his nose perked up with the smell of salt on the air.  He had never smelled the ocean before, but if he had had to imagine what it would smell like, it would most certainly be this.  Calus rose to his feet and followed it, the scent quickening his pace until he could no longer feel his legs moving beneath him.

           Then, leaping from the shoreline, he fell into the cold sand of Virolia’s beaches.  There, in the distance, he could see the lights of the city.  Out here on the water, he was kept company only by the crashing waves and crabs he could see scuttling away from him.  The salty air filled his lungs, and he breathed deeper than he ever had.

           He ran down the beach, watching the moon glitter down on the waves.  He stopped before he reached the edges, where he could see footprints in the sand.  It would be great to run in there right now, but he couldn’t.  He couldn’t forget what he looked like right now, with mold coating most of his forearms and down his neck completely at the least.  Out in the wilderness he hadn’t had a way of looking at himself, and though he knew he was clean, he could not trust that he did not look wildly…inhuman. In some way.

           Moving as to not avoid attention from any potentially prying eyes, Calus crept back into the woodsier area, though he kept his distance from the water short.  Going into the city directly, even, would attract less attention than rushing in from the beach.  Night would still be able to give him cover, he just needed to think smart about it.

           First, though, he needed to at least make sure his arms and neck were covered.  Shadows wouldn’t excuse how dark they were, or how far it was spread.  Unfortunately, since he had bypassed Yvas, he hadn’t had a lot of opportunity to take care of this until now.

           Maybe he would just go in, guns blazing, and intimidate everyone into listening to him.  He didn’t know much about Virolia, but they weren’t a super-advanced civilization. People would probably freak at the sight of him and beg him not to kill them.  It wasn’t the legacy he wanted, but he could explain himself once he’d gotten what he wanted.  Because this was about clothes and transport of him out of the country.  Who would be mad at that?

           He felt eyes on him, which pulled him from his tangent and into a tense stance.  It wasn’t that he was particularly in harms way, but he didn’t know if they would be moving to kill.  He had had enough practice with the wild dogs of Serason to know that milstrun did not make him invulnerable, but it did make him heal very quickly. When it came to more mortal attacks, though, he wasn’t sure how he would hold up.

           There was nothing; no rustling of leaves, no cracking of branches underfoot as he left behind.  The forest wasn’t too quiet either, with its singing of birds and cries out further beyond.  It was isolated to this strange stillness between Calus and the forest to his left, which he tried to peer at without turning his head.

           He paused for a few moments before lashing out with the milstrun, shredding through some of the shrubbery that was obscuring his vision.  Nothing. He panted and shook as he pulled back, his mouth suddenly going dry with fear.  Either he had no idea where danger was coming from, or he hadn’t kept control over his energy consumption and now he was blatantly hallucinating.  Neither seemed like particularly favorable options.

           Further down on his left, there was rustling. Relief flooded through him as he lashed out again, endorphins shooting through his brain and crumbling to a halt as he saw his target was a person.  Before his body could move, he was pulling it back, grasping his arm and pulling it away so that the tendrils did not eviscerate this bystander.

           The overshoot was considerable, as the milstrun plunged into the soil only about halfway between them.  Calus shouted in involuntary celebration, clapping a hand over his mouth, and collecting himself in the same second.  If he acted normal, perhaps everything that had just occurred would not be remembered out of shock.

           It was a man about his age as far as he could tell, though the conditions of night made it difficult to tell much else.  He seemed equally surprised to see Calus, and shone a light between the two of them, nearly blinding the other.  When Calus yelled in pain, the light shone down on the ground just away from where there was still the blackness of milstrun on the ground.  

           Neither seemed to know what to say, and the tension between them rose increasingly by the second with neither knowing how to proceed.

           “I’m going to Virolia.”  Calus said as evenly as he could, figuring that since he was the intruder, he should be the one to address the situation.  “I, uh, sorry.  I thought you were a wild animal.”  It wasn’t the truth, but it wasn’t a lie either.

           “Why are you sorry?”  The man’s voice was shaken, remarkably so.  “You didn’t do anything.”  The light found its way to illuminate his face.  “I’m sorry I jumped out at you.  I thought you were…someone else.”

           Clearly, this conversation would not bring him anything of note.  Calus paused for a moment and nodded, forgetting momentarily that it was dark. This was a civilian; there was no reason to push this further.  “Well, I hope you…find them.”  And with a slight wave he knew the man would not see, he walked away.

           The light hit his back, and he stopped for a moment.  Should he say something?  If he didn’t need something, he wouldn’t be pointing his light like that, right? Something about it seemed too strange to just keep moving, though he desperately wanted to.  

           “What’s wrong with your arm?”  The light moved to shine on Calus’s left arm, which sent chills down his spine.  This was not the kind of interaction he wanted to have with somebody, where he had to weigh their danger level to him.

           “It’s infected.”  Calus said shortly, crossing his arms over his chest and slightly leaning his head back to make sure his hair would cover his neck.  “I’m going to Virolia to figure out what’s wrong.”

           There was a significant pause, long beyond the time where it could be chalked up to processing the answer.  This was the pause of suspicion; something Calus was no stranger to.  But if he clarified, it would probably make this worse.  It was the better option to let this stranger make their own assumptions and stick to confirming or denying that.

           Footsteps drew the man closer, and Calus felt his muscles all tense in anticipation as he squeezed his eyes shut.  He should just kill him, get it over with, get this all over with.  Nothing good would come from pursuing this interaction.  If he could just run, he would, but this man already knew he was going to Virolia.

           Oh, how he regretted wondering why this hadn’t happened sooner.  Because it had been “too easy”, because he had “fit in so well” with normal people. Now, all he wished was that he could be a normal person.

           Regretfully, Calus turned to face the man when the distance was too close to ignore.  He begrudgingly opened his eyes, hissing through his teeth softly.  “Is something wrong?”  His voice cracked to a painfully high octave, making him wince.  As he cleared his throat through a cough, he repeated himself.  “Are you also going this way?”

           The man was quiet, which strengthened Calus’s anxiety to suffocating levels.  “I know it’s milstrun.  You shouldn’t go into a city if you know the severity of what you have.”  He shone the light into Calus’s eyes, making him squint. “It’s even in your eyes, you know.”

           Logically, of course he knew the milstrun would have undoubtedly made his way into his eyes.  It would explain the issue he’d only just had with registering where danger had been coming from.  But hearing it from a stranger when he was already in the crushing grip of hysteria drove him over the edge into tears.  What did he possibly look like, where anyone could tell he was infected by milstrun?

           “You can’t catch it from me.”  Calus half-screamed in desperation, clawing at his face with his fingers absentmindedly to pass it as idle scratching. “Sorry.  I know I’m scratching.  I’m just nervous.”  He laughed, rubbing his face in a panic.  With a sharp breath, he composed himself and fanned his face with his hands.  “I am so sorry!  Wow!”  He cleared his throat and continued.

           “My name is Calus.  I am infected with milstrun.  However, you cannot catch it from me.”  He started, choosing to avert his eyes as to avoid the inevitable disbelief he knew would make him furious.  “I am here because I want to go to Kylan, where milstrun is, because I can control it.  I almost killed you with it.  Sorry.” Silently, he cursed himself for even mentioning that, but figured it would add more to the authenticity of…everything.

           Surprisingly, there was no shriek of laughter or accusatory screaming as Calus had been fearing.  Rather, the man was silent, but seemed to be processing everything, from what Calus could see in the shadows of his face.  He shifted slightly outside of the beam of light drilling into his eyes, holding that awkward position.

           “Well, I wouldn’t believe you normally.”  He finally said, looking up and sighing. “But, well, you clearly are infected. And I am not dying.  And if I am, it doesn’t really matter what I do anyway. It’s not like I can go for help.”

           Calus hadn’t thought of that.  He’d never considered how devastating milstrun’s presence really was to the world now that he was immune to its effects. This meant he had virtually no reason to be worried about demanding what he wanted from people; his very presence meant that they had no choice but to trust him.

           “Right.”  Calus said, nodding.  “So, anyway, do you have a way of getting to Kylan from here?”  While he was here, he may as well figure out what he could.  “I know it’s like, a deserted wasteland, but I figured it was my best bet.”

           The stranger seemed surprised Calus moved on but nodded idly.  “Oh, Kylan?” He stopped to consider this.  “Not officially.  My parents have gone there, though.  They might be able to figure something out for you.”

           He almost couldn’t believe his luck.  “Your parents go to Kylan?”  It was almost too good to be true.  “Why?”

           “Oh, they���re humanitarians.”  The man shrugged and wrinkled his nose in disgust.  “They go all over the place helping people, that’s what they’re doing right now.  It’s super great, except that I hate it.”  He paused.  “Do you want to come to my house?  Then you don’t have to be…out here.  While you wait.”

           Calus nodded absentmindedly, barely listening to the man the rest of the way as he complained lightly about how long they’d been gone this time, and then how he was going to need to reschedule meeting with his friend because of all of this, but it was definitely worth it, because he had met Calus, which was great, but also terrifying.

           He couldn’t wait to get away from this. Silently, he prayed that this would be a short intermission on his journey.  But for all it pained him, altogether, he had still come out victorious from this.  Feigning this relationship would mean down the road, he would be up for more benefits than just a trip across an ocean.

[yuissamidare]

aight aight lets do this

zombie au

i wanted??? to develop the side characters more because i love them and they make me super happy when they get on screen and i went to sleep and woke up in the dead of night like. Ah. I Know.

the gist was dekapan creates a virus that mimics those weird wasp things that inject venom in caterpillars and wasps and leave them zombie-fied until they end up sacrificing themselves for the wasps babies. it works like my theory for gakkou gurashi and idk the zombies should follow their everyday routine expect that they also kill people. i’ve scrapped that idea and like, recreated how the zombies work but shhhh this part is a Super Secret.

he’s having trouble with money and! he loves science! he loves messing up and starting over and finding that one xyz fit that makes everything click how he wants to! but that costs money, and it’s money he doesnt have, so? he calls a kid he used to babysit and get along with for some help. hatabou gets him a job with a sketchy government probably trying to cure the common cold or make it impossible to burn your skin in the sun or something so of course he does the work given to him, because money is money, but the moment it gets on tv and is announced to the world dekapan calls everyone like 'hey guys dont take the vaccine something fuckys going on' and then the zombie outbreak starts and everyone gets split up and they find each other eventually after Bad Things and everyone gets fucked up about it.

people who we dont get to see pair up find each other and begrudgingly work together.

jyushimatsu and todomatsu are w matsuyo!! she has them go on a trip to the mall with her, and it’s very densely packed and a trains ride from home  (jyushimatsus here to carry bags and todomatsus here bc oohhh a mall far away). the outbreak happens while theyre in the mall, and momma and todomatsu get separated from jyushimatsu for a little while -- they do find him again, and momma decks a zombie in the face. todomatsu cries. if i were to write this, i’d focus like??? 2 - 3 chapters focusing on them being in the mall, finding a group of other survivors, and then leaving the group. depending on length and my Stamina which is. not good.

next group is totoko and karamatsu!!! and. its not because of.... anything. but totoko!! if anything is really strong and i can see her carrying an iron will and inspiring other people to follow he lead and! i like the dynamic they had with that like One Interaction. idk the beginning all too well?? like how they meet up and stick together, but i have everything after that pretty clear in my head. this would be??? the second arc of the story maybe? it take a while for them to actually get along and things go Bad in the start because ahaha karamatsu is a Fuck Up, and after that karamatsu just stops trying to talk to her and just trails behind while totoko vehemently refuses to let him help her with anything. and i actually?? dont wanna say too much about this because. ITS SURPRISE. but after they start getting along karamatsu gives her a fishbone braid, and she talks about missing her brother and they do some Feelings Talk.

idk what the fuck to do with osomatsu, ichimatsu, and choromatsu??? someones learning medicine and surgery from dekapan, someones getting yelled at by chibita while hatabou mediates, and someone starts stealing things with iyami and then starts crying in the back of his van after a close call, but idk who because they all keep flip flopping positions in my head. like, at first ichimatsu was getting yelled at, but then i put him with iyami, but then im like ‘ohhh doctor ichimatsu’. then osomatsu was with chibita n hatabou, then i was like ‘but oh he and iyami have a great dyamic’. and choromatsu was with dekapan at first bt then i was :/ with that and put him with chibita. those three are hecking me up idk what to do.

paranormal investigators

 We Are All Dependant On Our Brothers

the matsuno bros start up a ghost bustin company thats set up in a run down project and they’re all crowed up in a shitty apartment funded by hatabou and todomatsus part time job with equipment provided by dekapan because after high school it was decided that ‘shit lets hunt some ghost’ and everyone was like ‘yea sure.’

it was spawned by a dream i had where choromatsu and karamatsu are on a case and choros like 'k we gotta distract the ghost' and karas like 'got it' and while choros doing. whatever. karamatsu comes out in a bathrobe and sashays like 'ooh noo ;)) i sure hope no ghosts are going to get me while im naked and vulnerable ;)))' and choros like. 'who gave you permission to be such garbage.' and. oh. he did. 

and then later in the day a stray thought where osomatsu and karamatsu got confronted by a ghost thats like ‘ICHIMATSU MATSUNO!!! YOU, MY ENEMY WHOVE IVE TRACED DOWN FROM BARBADOS TO THE ARAN ISLANDS TO-’ then osomatsu cuts him off like ‘bro we arent ichimatsu’ and the three of them stare at each other for ten minutes before karamatsu offers to call him for the ghost and the ghost is like ‘!!!! could you?? i mean, im still damning you both to hell but’ and then ichimatsu picks up the phone, and as soon as the ghost starts talking he expels it in 0.0000000000000000000000001 seconds.

superheros

the brothers are b-rate superheros who end up in the newspapers sometimes. iyami and chibitas That Dude who ends up in hostage situations all the time and begrudgingly drive them home and make sure they eat even though they claims to hate them. its actually.... based of the storyline for my ocs so i wont actually talk about that again. nnu9mubvufe8n.

again, they live in a shit ass project but they live right next door to each other instead of crowding in One Apartment, its two with three each. they are all actively looking for day jobs because while the government pays well they struggle being adults. but this time adults with superpowers.

rpg/video game

like. back in the naru.to fandom there was a point where video game aus were really popular, like the whole grinding/gaining stats/unlocking new areas thing n all that and it surprisingly worked really well when written right?. so i was thinking about that and spacing out and i was like Oh Fuck. so this au got birthed. osomatsus the king, karas the knight, jyushi is a prince who gets kidnapped, ichis prince #2, choromatsus a wandering mage, n todos the royal advisor. 

jyushimatsu gets kidnapped in the dead of night, and osomatsus like ‘what the flying fuck karamatsu get over here lets go get him back.’ so they leave, and have ichimatsu look after the kingdom for him. hes like 'wait what please im' and is thrust into power anyways. he and todomatsu are surprisingly competent leaders and the kingdom does really good under him, even better than with osomatsu?? though he locked himself in his room for the first week and todomatsu just kept banging on the door OPEN UP YOU FUCK YOU HAVE PAPERWORK. and its an insanely huge amount because osomatsu keeps putting it off unless someone watches him and he does all the stuff like funding the armies and expanding territories before stuff like regulating taxes and funding schools and hospitals.

jyushimatsu escapes on his own after a day n is like HMMMM HOW TO GET HOME..... but then he enters a little run down village and meets homura and falls In Love and they spend time together and he eventually just forgets to come home because hes so happy with her

meanwhile with the idiot eldest duo. karamatsu doesnt know how to fucking.... spend money so when they meet choromatsu whos like the stop n shop npc he gives him all the money he has for an enchanted pair of ankle warmers that he could put his face on and that can react to his emotions. osomatsus like ‘what the entire fuck bro’ and goes to get their money back, but then ends up spending all his money on a charm thatll increase his gambling luck.

‘we’ve been bamboozled, my dearest king. our money taken right before our eyes as a miser deceived us and robbed us of everything we’re worth,’ ‘wanna beat him up, karamatsu?’ ‘of course i do.’

choromatsus like ????? wtf its not my fault you two dont know how to spend money. but they fight, and osomatsus like ‘join our party!!’ and they take a few days to convince him but he does join and he and osomatsu hit it off really well, and osomatsu decided after everything, hes going to adopt choromatsu. 

(’but we’re the same age, my king’ karamatsu says in response to his proposal. 

‘FINE, then ill get mom to adopt him, geez.’ 

then they meet chibita and n chibita and karamatsus like ‘if youre taking choromatsu, im taking chibita in if he says yes’ and osomatsus like ‘ask mom first’)

the three of them go to the place jyushimatsu was taken to, beat everyone up, and then realize he isnt there. so they just. dejectedly walk into a nearby village for rest and chibita gives them free beer.

they meet jyshimatsu an hour later on a date with homura and yes. they decide to adopt her as a sister too. (is someone marrying into your family considered adoption?? idk but everyones family now, no excuses.)

royalty/split at birth

i hate angst i just wish everyone could be happy, i say as i look through my notebook with angsty plot points as i reference my life.

the gist is: the cold color trio living in slums rather than a palace but then oso finds out OH SHIT WE HAVE MORE BROTHERS WE GO GET THEM and everyones stressed the fuck out

as soon as osomatsu finds out he has troops scour the kingdom for the them, with the directions ‘there are three more people with my face, go get em’ and he sends troops out. to everyone outside the castle this is a very ?????!!!!!!!!!! thing???because the royal family has solidified themselves as Bad Selfish people who tax unfairly and dont care about the poor. like, the rich people are all like oh! i wonder what the royal family is planning theyre so good to our kingdom ha ha! while the poor people are freaking the fuck out.

the cold colors only get a brief warning about the troops coming and the first thing ichimatsu does when he hears this is go and break all the fancy plates and choromatsus like ‘wtf are you doing!!!’ and ichimatsu just looks at him like ‘i love and respect my family so im doing what i need to’ and karamatsu takes that as his cue to take his mothers valuables and hide them under the floorboards and in the walls where the stucco breaks away and choromatsu writes a note to their mom Just In Case.

they actually do get taken and theyre fucking shocked. like, instead of the royals taking everyones valuables like they expected, theyre taking them??? and the troops are no help theyre just like ‘kay go take two sets of coats and three sets of day wear’ and they have them leave straight away.

an abrupt abduction is gonna stir up shit in the village especially if they only take the boys and leave their parents and friends. imagine how paranoid they'll be. ‘oh no what if im going next' 'i hear that theyre taking our boys now and selling them off to foreign labor' 'theyre taking our children as punishment for not being able to afford tax' ‘i heard things breaking in their home what if they got taken away for resisting’

imagine all the drama and discomfort theyll feel when they see the other bros living in the lap of luxury why their friends and family suffer like :)))

its frustrating and tense for everyone because osomatsu expected them to integrate without issue. jyushimatsu doesnt understand why they get so mad at him and refuse to be his friend. todomatsu doesnt understand why all these poor people are a problem. as long as youre happy and healthy it's fine! theres no need to concern yourself with what doesnt directly affect you. if you dont see it its not happening so its best to ignore it.

ballet

osomatsu does ballet again and is happy and has found something he loves and enjoys and everyone supports him. basically, he starts feeling nostalgic and then starts watching youtube videos and goes ‘haha pah! i can do that’ and then he realizes ‘holy shit this is something i wanna spend the rest of my life doing’

sophie even wrote a fic about it and its great and every time i read it my heart pounds ten thousand times a second and i start smiling so hard my cheeks hurt.

detectives

jyushimatsu’s an overworked forensic scientist, choromatsu’s an exasperated detective, osomatsus is watson, todomatsu’s head of the branch, and ???? ichimatsu where are you??

karamatsu’s fucking dead but he aint important.

they solve mysteries n do detective stuff.

theres also another au thats like platonic soulmate thing but eh 

#mbbbaf #long post #no like for real its a long ass post #these are all awful and they could all use Work but i like them #what is this

[preserving-ferretbrain]

Vampires: You're Doin’ It Wrong

by Melissa G.

Sunday, 20 December 2009

Melissa kindly provides Fb's obligatory Twilight article.~

So with the release of New Moon, and that fact that it has now beaten out the sales of, like, everything ever, I am reminded strongly of the intense rage I feel for anything Twilight-related. Add that to the rage-inspiring feminism kick I’ve been on lately, and it should come as no surprise that I’ve decided to have a go at Twilight. Because nothing inspires my rage-o-meter more than a woman writing a book damaging to women, especially teenage women.

I can only personally speak to the first book as that is the one I read. I decided to spare my sanity and keep the others far, far away from me lest my brain start melting out my ears. Let me give a brief disclaimer: I had negative feelings toward Twilight before I even read it, and I kind of only read it so I didn't feel hypocritical hating it so much. So, was my judgment colored? Yes, it was. But that doesn’t mean that my points aren’t valid and supported by the text.

Here's my issue with Twilight. I can accept Twilight as a guilty pleasure read. I understand why so many girls are titillated by the idea of it; every novel or TV series or movie that I’m exposed to, I, too, will inevitably fall for the vulnerable, sympathetic bad guy (Draco Malfoy, anyone?). What I object to is the people who are under the opinion that Twilight is a well-written, well-crafted, original book that realistically and believably captures a healthy and functional relationship between two people who truly love each other.

Not only is the book inherently flawed in its conception, but it isn’t even written well to make up for it. One of the biggest examples of writing-fail comes in the prologue of the book. Meyer wrote a prologue about an imminent death in first person past tense. Say that with me again. IMMINENT death. FIRST person. PAST tense. Immediately any sort of actual terror inspired by this passage is moot because it's pretty obvious that this imminent death is not happening. And it’s not even as if the prose itself manages to inspire some sense of fear or suspense. Bella tells us she’s “terrified”, but the writing here focuses on her thought process, which is quite lengthy and calm for someone who is about to die. I kind of imagine the killer looking at his watch and tapping his foot while he allows her to think all this out. Surely, the point of putting this scene at the beginning of the book is to create suspense, and it fails miserably in this.

So, as you can see, Twilight was off to a fabulous start with me. It was like going to a blind date you regretted agreeing to and seeing the complete antithesis of what is attractive and desirable to you. But I was willing to keep going and give the book a shot to impress and win me over. So I begrudgingly continued reading, and sadly it did not get any better. I will address the following things in this rant: Shiny Vampires, Bella-fail, and Abuse = Love.

Let's start right off with: Shiny Vampires

I have always liked the idea of vampires. Vampires in literature have predominately functioned as metaphors – most commonly as metaphors for sex and seduction. Dracula, arguably the most famous vampire novel, did exactly this. Dracula is about sexual repression. The vampires represent sex; the staking of Lucy in the graveyard is written very well to read disturbingly as a rape scene, and the three sisters, as well as Dracula himself, are seductive and deadly. And being turned into a vampire means to give in to your sexual desire. And let’s face it, with all the penetration (by teeth) and exchanging of bodily fluids (blood), it’s not hard to see what Stoker was going for.

All Twilight did was indulge an extremely common fantasy that has been done many times before, and honestly, it's a lot more acceptable when you don't try to defend the blood-sucking undead creature's really outrageously inappropriate behavior by equating it with love. Yes, it's fine to investigate the downside of immortality, to make your vampires angsty, but the problem I have with "Twipires" is that they really don't make any sense outside of "Vampires need to do this so my plot works." There are some lazy attempts to explain why vampires are acting so OOC or doing conveniently plot relevant things, but it comes off more as lazy writing than plausible excuse. For example, the reason they go to high school is because they need to start as young as possible in a new town so that people won’t notice right away that they’re not aging. I don’t know that being the odd home-schooled family would make them stand out any more than they already do, but if they didn’t go to high school, I guess there would be no book – you know, unless you came up with another plausible reason for two people to meet and interact.

And here’s where Edward doesn’t even try to provide any sort of reasonable explanation for the inconsistencies:

“Don’t laugh – but how can you come out during the daytime?” He laughed anyway. “Myth.” “Burned by the sun?” “Myth.” “Sleeping in coffins?” “Myth.”

That’s it, folks. That’s all we get. Not even an attempt at why these things have gotten misconstrued over the years. No line about that damn Bram Stoker getting all these ideas in people’s heads or anything. No attempt at all.

So, let's go over what goes into making a "Twipire". They drink blood, they don't age, they have super speed and strength, they can't die easily (in fact, even conventional methods like stakes and sun don't work), and, the biggie, they don't combust in the sun - they sparkle like a magical little pony. Oh, and let's not forget that some of them develop cool powers completely arbitrarily that are convenient to the plot and only serve to make her characters more “speshul” and nifty. There are certain changes I can accept in vampire mythology, such as it being a virus ala Blade or deciding that vampires can't actually do things like turn into bats and such. But when you take away the essential things that make a vampire a vampire (not being able to go out in the day, being killed by stakes), these creatures cease to be recognizable as vampires. By denying them the core elements of their identity, the vampires are domesticated in a way. Their power, both as characters and as literary devices, is taken away. It would be like if someone wrote about vampires and decided that instead of drinking blood, they had to stand upside down on their heads for at least five hours a day to keep living. And I highly doubt that vampires are the only monster in common mythology that lives on blood. Why not find a better creature to suit your needs instead of changing an already existing mythos almost completely?

I suppose my more basic issue with them is that I don't see much real downside to being a vampire in this world. They're super-strong, super-fast, get cool powers possibly, seem to be fairly uninhibited from going outside, and are immortal and nearly unkillable. Sounds pretty good to me. From what I could see, there was no good argument against turning Bella into a vampire pretty much immediately except, of course, that maybe you're too young at seventeen to know who you want to spend the rest of your life with, but this isn't a claim the book seems interested in exploring. As far as I remember, the problem Edward has with turning Bella into a vampire has everything to do with not wanting to make her into a monster like him and nothing to do with the fact that their love might not be forever. Instead, their everlasting love is presented as a given. Now, in Bella’s teenage mind, this is acceptable; it’s very common to think your high school boyfriend is “the one”. But no one in the text – or the text itself – seems to challenge this idea. To use another vampire/human relationship most of us are probably aware of, Angel – being older and having more life-experience – believes that Buffy has a teenage crush on him and will eventually mature out of the idea that having a vampire boyfriend is cool or at all emotionally satisfying. Twilight doesn’t tackle these more covert emotional complications of a vampire/human relationship; it is satisfied to merely deal with the obvious, which makes their relationship far less interesting to the reader.

Let's move on to Bella-fail...

So, anytime I say the words "Mary Sue" and the person I'm talking to goes "huh?", I simply say, "Like Bella." And they immediately understand. Okay, I do tend to give a sort of definition as well, but as soon as I mention Bella, I need say no more. Bella is the epitome of Mary Sue. She keeps insisting over and over how she isn't pretty or popular or special, but the text pretty much contradicts her at every turn. No one liked her at her old school, she wasn't popular, she's doesn't stand-out, and yet, in her first few days of school, she has three, count 'em, three guys all clamoring immediately for her attention (Eric, Mike, and Tyler – we’ll not even count Edward and Jacob yet). So, this girl who insists how absolutely plain she is is someone still capable of arresting the attention of, like, every guy in school. I call bullshit. Now, here’s a quote from Meyer giving an answer to the question, “Why do all the guys at Forks High like Bella if she's supposed to be average-looking? Is she pretty or not?”

Some parts of Bella's experiences are modeled after real life (my life, to be exact) in order to ground the fantasy aspects of the story in solid reality. Ironically, many of the details that are one hundred percent reality are the ones that are called into question the most (as illustrated by some of my angry Amazon reviews). In this particular case, I modeled Bella's move to Forks after my real life move from high school to college. (Personal story alert!) I mentioned in my bio that I went to a high school in Scottsdale, AZ, which is Arizona's version of Beverly Hills (picture the high school in the movie Clueless). In high school, I was a mousy, A-track wall-flower. I had a lot of incredible girlfriends, but I wasn't much sought after by the Y chromosomes, if you know what I mean. Then I went to college in Provo, Utah. Let me tell you, my stock went through the roof. See, beauty is a lot more subjective than you might think. In Scottsdale, surrounded by barbies, I was about a five. In Provo, surrounded by normal people, I was more like an eight.

I can accept that going from a big city to a small town might bump her number up a little. There are definitely people who are “small-town hot” but not “NY/LA hot”. Fine. But here’s what the text had to say:

“You don’t see yourself very clearly, you know. I’ll admit you’re dead on about the bad things,” he chuckled blackly, “but you didn’t hear what every human male in this school was thinking on your first day.”

Checkmate, Meyer. Edward says “every human male in this school”. I can accept more guys in Forks liking her than in Arizona, but come on? Every male in school? Even the gay ones? I guess there also aren't any lesbians at Bella's school either.

Oh, and as with all Mary Sues, Bella has one tiny little adorable flaw. She's clumsy. Laughably clumsy. Plot-convenience driven clumsy. This is only made worse by the fact that her clumsiness often induces knight-in-shining-armor behavior from men, resulting in Bella constantly needing to be saved. Now, I understand that when she's surrounded by vampires, she is the weakest and it wouldn't make sense for her to be kick-ass, but the fact that she also needs help when she's just walking is a little much for me to take. And Edward's constantly cheesy lines about how he can’t leave her alone for a second just sound extremely patronizing. And here come a bunch of them!

“I’ve never tried to keep a specific person alive before, and it’s much more troublesome than I would have believed. But that’s probably just because it’s you.” “Don’t be offended, but you seem to be one of those people who just attract accidents like a magnet. So…try not to fall into the ocean or get run over or anything, all right?” “You were right. I’m definitely fighting fate trying to keep you alive.” “I’m surprised that you did make it through a whole weekend unscathed.” “Are you referring to the fact that you can’t walk across a flat, stable surface without finding something to trip over?"

Bella is so utterly incompetent at walking. And it makes her absolutely incapable of taking care of herself. She constantly needs men to help her. It's infuriating. She almost gets hit by a car, but magical Edward is there to save her. She almost gets mugged/raped by some random Straw Men in Port Angeles, but luckily, Edward was stalking her so he could leap in to the rescue. This reinforces in young girls’ heads that they are helpless without a man around. And that being helpless is perfectly okay because one day, they'll find a big, strong, practically perfect in every way man so that all they need to do is sit around birthing babies.

Now I'd like to talk about the character of Bella, but she is so miraculously vague, especially given that the book is entirely in her point of view. What does come off, to me at least, is that she is horribly arrogant and ungrateful. She seems to have a bad enough relationship with her father that she calls him by his first name, but there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that he is anything but a genuinely nice, protective Papa. He buys her a car (more than a lot of parents would do), tries to be involved with her life (how dare he?!), and even seems rather guilty and embarrassed that he can't cook for her.

He seemed to feel awkward standing in the kitchen doing nothing; he lumbered into the living room to watch TV while I worked. We were both more comfortable that way.

This of course also reinforces such wonderful gender stereotypes. But the fact remains that Bella's treatment of her father seems rather unfair and unfounded, and pretty much just came off ungrateful and nasty. He didn't have to let her come move in with him to begin with, but he actually wanted her there, a fact she seems to take completely for granted.

Her snootiness is evident again when she meets Jessica, who as far as the book tells us, has done nothing but be nice and try to include Bella into her circle of friends. Again, this is more than a lot of teenage girls would do for the new kid in school. And yet, Bella seems extremely judgmental of Jessica simply because, I guess, she lives in Forks? I've been told by people that Jessica does actually turn out to be a bitch, but unless Bella shares Alice's “speshul” power, I don't take this as an excuse for her nastiness in the prose toward someone who is just trying to be friendly.

One girl sat next to me in both Trig and Spanish, and she walked with me to the cafeteria for lunch. […] I couldn’t remember her name, so I smiled and nodded as she prattled about teachers and classes. I didn’t try to keep up.

As if the use of the word “prattle” isn’t bad enough – it indicates Jessica is vapid and ditzy – Bella doesn’t even “try to keep up” with what Jessica is saying. Obviously she feels Jessica is below her. She isn’t even bothered to remember her name, nor does she seem to care that she doesn’t know it.

And then the fact that she's asked out by several guys to the dance is presented as merely annoying (which I'm sure it is), but not at all flattering. You’d think someone who’s never been noticed by guys before would find this overwhelming and exciting even if she isn’t interested in them. It’s also really hard to make anyone feel sorry for someone who has too many choices when it comes to guys.

Also, Bella likes to constantly point out to us in the prose that she has already done all the things that the kids in Forks are doing in school.

I kept my eyes down on the reading list the teacher had given me. It was fairly basic: Bronte, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Faulkner. I’d already read everything. That was comforting…and boring.

Is this a commentary on big city schools vs. small town schools? Perhaps, but it’s a rather unfounded and unfair conclusion. I think this is put in deliberately to make us think Bella is smart.

We had a pop quiz on Wuthering Heights. It was straightforward, very easy.

Are we meant to believe that it was easy for her because she was smart? Because it’s more likely that it was easy for her because she’d covered the material before. There is nothing smarter about being in a school that has a faster moving curriculum, and hell, there's not really evidence of that, only evidence that they are different curriculums. And anyone who has switched schools knows that no two schools work exactly the same in America. My friend (at a big city private school) and I (at a small town public school) read exactly the same books in high school, but we read them in different years. Also, the fact that Bella enjoys things like Charlotte Bronte tell us she's smart. You know what? If you were really smart, you'd still pay attention and just do it all again for review purposes or look into doing more challenging projects instead of the easy assignments you already know. Also:

I wondered if my mom would send me my folder of old essays

Lazy. Not smart.

I'm sure there's much more I can say, but let's move on to: Abuse = Love.

This is, much as people like to argue with me, a HUGE problem with the Edward/Bella relationship. I have been told by people that if I just read the short story that explains it all from Edward's point of view, it will all make sense and cease to be creepy and stalkerish. I disagree. Looking into the head of the perpetrator of terrible behavior makes the behavior understandable not excused. It's like holding up Lolita and proclaiming that NAMBLA or like-minded people have totally valid arguments because if you just read this book, you'll get it.

Let's talk about Edward/Bella, shall we? Her interest in him is spurred nearly completely by what she takes as his distaste for her.

Just as I passed, he suddenly went rigid in his seat. He stared at me again, meeting my eyes with the strangest expression on his face – it was hostile, furious. […] I kept my eyes down as I went to sit by him, bewildered by the antagonistic stare he’d given me. [ …] He was leaning away from me, sitting on the extreme edge of his chair and averting his face like he smelled something bad.

He treats her extremely rudely, acts like a total freak, and she can't stop thinking about him and starts becoming obsessed with solving the mystery that is the jerkface who sits next to her in biology. Now, I understand the curiosity, and I understand her wanting to know why some guy she's never really interacted with seems to hate her so much, but the difference to me is that most of the time, the guy who is treating you like shit rarely ends up being your "twu luv". He might be that asshole you dated for a while because he was hot or because you didn't have enough self-confidence to know you deserved better, but he should not be your true love, and the fact that Twilight represents this really bothers me. Especially given how seriously it's taken by teenage girls. As an adult reading it as a guilty pleasure, you can indulge yourself in the James Dean-esque bad boy with a heart of gold thing and then let it go and return to reality. I don’t believe that most teenage and pre-teens girls have the emotional maturity that would allow them to do this.

Twilight is reinforcing the idea that really, he just treats you that way because he loves you too much. (Sounds remarkably like classic spousal abuse defense, no?) And I'm not saying this was her intent, but unfortunately, it is what the book ends up doing. See, Edward's coldness and refusal to interact with her was really just him loving her too much. His sneaking into her room while she was sleeping every night for months was more evidence of his deep and meaningful love. And the true symbol of his affection is the fact that manages to keep from raping - er, I mean, biting - her as his nature as a man - er, uh, vampire - pressures him to do.

This is slightly off topic, but I get more than a little annoyed at how most media seems to believe that there is either making out or sex with absolutely nothing in between the two. To go past kissing immediately means having sex. Um, no. Untrue. Extremely untrue. And it bothers me that this idea is ingrained in teen's heads nowadays. To take this back to Twilight, let's look at the scene when they kiss, and this is her response:

Blood boiled under my skin, burned in my lips. My breath came in a wild gasp. My fingers knotted in his hair, clutching him to me. My lips parted as I breathed in his heady scent. Immediately I felt him turn to unresponsive stone beneath my lips. His hands gently, but with irresistible force, pushed my face back. I opened my eyes and saw his guarded expression. “Oops,” I breathed. “That’s an understatement.” [….] “Should I…?” I tried to disengage myself, to give him some room. His hands refused to let me move so much as an inch. “No, it’s tolerable.”

Her sexual arousal is “tolerable”? Not to mention, she did barely anything in this scene; the behavior was extremely tame and yet is represented as too much. While I can applaud the fact that the woman in the relationship is pushing for sex/vampirism and the man is the one refusing, the execution actually does more harm than good. It makes it seem like Bella's desires are dirty and wrong, thus pigeonholing women back into their "you can't enjoy sex" boxes. To look at some other examples:

There was really no excuse for my behavior. Obviously I knew better by now. And yet I couldn’t seem to stop from reacting exactly as I had the first time. Instead of keeping safely motionless, my arms reached up to twine tightly around his neck and I was suddenly welded to his stone figure. I sighed, and my lips parted. He staggered back, breaking my grip effortlessly. “Damn it, Bella!” he broke off, gasping. “You’ll be the death of me, I swear you will.”

Again, very slight sexual actions – Bella pressed her body into his – are portrayed as catastrophic to Edward’s ability to control himself sexually. (Remember, I’m looking at the “urge to bite” as equivalent to “urge to sleep with. Not to mention that the phrase “safely motionless” really irks me. It makes me think that women are just meant to lie there while they allow men have sex with them. Because god-forbid we, you know, enjoy it or something.

“What am I going to do with you?” he groaned in exasperation. “Yesterday I kiss you, and you attack me! Today you pass out on me!”

That’s right, his kiss was so passionate that she passed out. All he did before this happened was “[touch] his cool lips to mine for the second time, very carefully, parting them slightly”. That’s a pretty tame kiss. The book ends up presenting any form of sexual desire – no matter how slight – as a very big deal. And let’s note that he’s “exasperated” with her behavior. And when Edward restrains himself, it's supposed to be admirable rather than expected. He's so great! He can stop himself from raping people! My hero! To see this illustrated, take a look at this passage which occurs right after the first kiss when he pushes her away after she gets too into it:

He laughed aloud. “I’m stronger than I thought. It’s nice to know.” “I wish I could say the same. I’m sorry.”

Edward saying this is like he’s patting himself on the back for his self control. Because as a man, he can’t help but want to have sex with Bella. But apparently Bella’s desire to have sex with him is something to apologize for. Not to mention, she manages to spike his sexual desire by merely being a woman (albeit one with a super special smell, wtf?). And that is her fault.

Sex is not a decision teens should make lightly, and it's nice that Meyer wants to show them that you can be in love without having sex, but I think the harm rather outweighs the good in this case. Not to mention how the characters fit nicely into ye olde gender roles. Bella is the cook, the nurturer, the damsel in distress, and later even child-bearer while Edward is a manly man who saves and protects women when he's not making them feel like absolute shit and/or skeeving them the hell out.

Also I saw very little motivation for Edward's affections aside from "Bella's hawt". In fact, there seems to be very little motivation for any of the boys interested in her. As for Bella and Edward, they certainly don't seem to connect on an intellectual level, and why should they, given their age difference, because no matter how much the characters and first person prose try to tell us Bella is mature for her age, it just doesn't seem so. Basically their whole relationship is completely unbalanced; the two are not at all on equal footing, reinforcing the idea that men and women cannot be equal in a relationship either in power or intelligence.

This is also brings me to the idea of “love at first sight”. Edward falls in love with Bella pretty much the instant he sees her. He falls totally in love with her despite knowing absolutely nothing about her. And yet, despite her being plain and him never having spoken to her, he is protective and obsessed with her completely. I understand this is a fantasy of a relationship, but I’ve seen Harlequins try harder to create some sense of compatibility between their characters. And actually, none of the boys who vie for Bella’s affections do something as insane as getting to know her first.

Twilight is the worst of all the things it tries to be. It’s a bad vampire novel, it’s a bad romance, and it’s bad teen fiction. The vampires serve no real purpose to the book, other than to be “cool” or “hot”, and they are even stripped of their basic vampire identities. As a romance, the book fails because the relationship is abusive and the sexual aspects are seen as dirty and wrong rather than titillating. And the messages it gives to its teen audience are wholly irresponsible and set back women’s sexual freedom a few hundred years. The only thing Twilight succeeds at is being far more popular than its writing or premise should allow.

Themes:

Books

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Sci-fi / Fantasy

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Young Adult / Children

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Guy

at 01:40 on 2009-12-21

I kept my eyes down on the reading list the teacher had given me. It was fairly basic: Bronte, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Faulkner. I’d already read everything. That was comforting…and boring.

Yes, because any halfway smart teenage girl would have read and understood the complete works of Shakespeare, and as for Chaucer! Pfft, glance over it once and you know it all, of course it's going to be boring! Where's the experimental poetry written in Esperanto that every typical teenager hungers for in their unending quest for ever-more abstruse literary forms to satisfy their perfectly natural desire to move beyond something basic like Shakespeare or, *shudder*, Faulkner!

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at 02:06 on 2009-12-21I take issue with your belief that "most teenage girls" aren't capable of dealing with this kind of in a healthy way. This kind of thing is actually a big part of why the Twilight-hate phenomenon annoys me.

I haven't read them, but I've read a lot about them and a number of passages, and I have little doubt that they're as dreadful as people say. But there are a lot of dreadful things in the world. Similarly misanthropic and stereotypical fare aimed at male audiences--think james Bond or something--is almost never singled out for this kind of, in my mind, hyperbolic criticism. We say all the time, and rightly, that James Bond, or Generic Sci-Fi/Action movie glorifies violence and sexism in an inappropriate way, but rarely do we accuse a specific author of "damaging" the nations male youth. I think there's probably a substantial pool of savvy young women who know exactly what the score is but read Twilight anyway.

On the substance of the article: Counterfactual criticism alert!

I don't actually have a problem with the idea that she has no need to work on her school's curriculum; it seems like a fairly self-conscious plot device to facilitate the demands of this genre's plots.

Basically, creating a justification for why she doesn't have to work at schools so she has more time to devote the adventures and trials of the actual plot. Especially in a fantasy story involving our heroes being initiated into a "secret world," that seems pretty much necessary unless the story is *about* the difficulty of juggling magic and high school.

It comes off badly because Bella is such an annoying character, but I suggest that if she used the time she saved to compose music, build robots in her garage, or even flirt with some dude who was vaguely interesting, you wouldn't have objected.

Re: Belledward

I've not read the books and have no desire to, but Kit Whitfield has an interesting and more sympathetic take: she considers the book a depiction of a fantastic, diealized BDSM relationship:

"for instance, dragging her to the prom, Edward finds Bella exlaiming 'in horror' and 'mortified' - which he responds to with a masterful, 'Don't be difficult, Bella.' This would sound like genuine objections on her part if her real protest was at being taken to a dance she wants to avoid. But making her dance is merely a lily-white way of pressing her limits; when they get going it's like this:

"Edward." My throat was so dry I could only manage a whisper. " I honestly can't dance!" I could feel the panic bubbling up inside my chest.

"Dont worry, silly," he whispered back. "I can." He put my arms around his neck and lifted me to slide his feet under mine.

And then we were whirling, too.

"I feel like I'm five years old," I laughed after a few minutes of effortless waltzing.

Bella is scared, but when skilfully pushed over the edge she finds herself having a wonderful time; this is an interplay of dominance and submission, Edward making Bella do things she discovers she actually wanted, rather than serious coercion. Words like 'gulped' and 'pouted' keep coming up, which is hardly the language of genuine resistance. The real reason Bella was upset is not that he's ignored her insistence that she doesn't want to go, it's that she thought tonight might be the night he vamped her and he's disappointed her 'half-fearful hopes'. She doesn't mind Edward making her do stuff; what she minds is when he won't make her do it. And in fact, as I'll mention later, when they finally do get down to business, Bella seems quite capable of erotic pain as well."

Not having read the book, I don't know whether this is a plausible construction; I suspect that it's probably partially valid, but that the quality of the writing introduces some regrettable morals anyway.

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at 02:07 on 2009-12-21Sorry for the double post, but forgot to link Whitfield:

http://www.kitwhitfield.com/2009_08_01_archive.html

The post is "Innocent Libertinism" about halfway down the page.

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Arthur B

at 02:27 on 2009-12-21I posted

this

a while ago in the Playpen, but it's buried now, and it pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject. :)

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Arthur B

at 02:35 on 2009-12-21

We say all the time, and rightly, that James Bond, or Generic Sci-Fi/Action movie glorifies violence and sexism in an inappropriate way, but rarely do we accuse a specific author of "damaging" the nations male youth.

There is a difference, though. James Bond, Rambo, Conan and their ilk go around kicking ass, laying down the law, and generally exerting authority over the situation throughout their lives. They are active, independent, and don't wait around for permission to go and get what they want.

Bella, based on Viorica's assessment here, is almost the complete reverse of that. She is passive to a fault. She wanders around getting into trouble. Then Edward shows up and helps her out. She gets into more trouble. Edward shows up and helps her out again. She basically allows Edward a control of her life which, if it's like Viorica describes, is complete to an almost frightening degree.

Now, imagine a young man who goes through life with the attitude of James Bond. Not in terms of going around shooting people, that's clearly fantasy, but in terms of taking on Bond's no-nonsense, take-charge attitude. What you would have there is a lad who takes the lead, who is proactive, who goes out and grabs life by the throat! In other words,

management material!

That boy will go far!

Now, imagine a girl who goes through life with Bella's attitude. Would you consider this to be empowering, like the scenario I outline above, or

massively disempowering

?

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Melissa G.

at 02:41 on 2009-12-21

I take issue with your belief that "most teenage girls" aren't capable of dealing with this kind of in a healthy way. This kind of thing is actually a big part of why the Twilight-hate phenomenon annoys me.

It's completely fair of you to take issue with it. And honestly, it's not just the teenage girls that do it; I've heard adult fans talk about the books without hearing any indication that they understand that Edward would be a horrible boyfriend in real life. And after hearing teenage girls in the school where I teach trying to defend the horrible behavior of their bfs to each other ("But you don't get WHY he cheated on me. Really, it's okay."), I'd rather lean on the side of caution with that one, personally.

it seems like a fairly self-conscious plot device to facilitate the demands of this genre's plots.

The problem is, I really don't read it that way at all. The book pretty much takes place exclusively in her school or around regular teenage activities. As far the first book goes, until the end, it's very much grounded in the every day. It's all focused around regular life: school and romance. So it would be completely natural to have her dealing with both homework and trying to have a social life. But, again, if she didn't come off so snotty about it, maybe I wouldn't care so much.

she considers the book a depiction of a fantastic, diealized BDSM relationship:

Oh, there's definitely some BD/fantasy rape aspects going on in there. A lot of romances fall into this trap, and this one is no different. Honestly, if this book weren't so popular, I wouldn't even give it a second glance. I'd just chalk it up to another bad romance novel with vampires. The fact that it has exploded this way makes me feel the need to point out its extreme flaws whenever I can b/c I'm confrontation that way. :-)

@Arthur

I loved that comic. It made me giggle.

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Melissa G.

at 02:42 on 2009-12-21Wrong author, Arthur, but I forgive you. :-)

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Melissa G.

at 02:48 on 2009-12-21

Edward making Bella do things she discovers she actually wanted, rather than serious coercion.

Sorry for multiple posts, but I just want to point out that the problem with this kind of thing is that it skates dangerously close to "No means yes." And while a common fantasy!rape aspect, it does not translate well into real life.

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Arthur B

at 02:59 on 2009-12-21

Wrong author, Arthur, but I forgive you. :-)

A sure sign that I've been staying up too late revising. Goodnight all!

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at 04:19 on 2009-12-21Melissa,

Re: "No means yes" -- first, let me say that I absolutely have no illusions about Stphanie Myers as a person. She publicly and repeatedly espouses destructive and horrifying values, and her own statements to the effect that Bella and Edward's is an unqualified ideal are problematic.

Setting her aside though and looking at the text--well, it depends on who you think it's talking to. Kit Whitfield's argument is that, just as erotica aimed at vanilla audiences often glosses over some or all of the anxiety, the miscommunication, the STI risk, and the need to learn what a new partner needs, letting our heroes have good sex the first time out, BDSM erotica omits the negotiation, safewords, and so on that are required for safe and healthy BDSM practice in the real world.

So then what do you make of its popularity? There's certainly an argument to be made that it's fandom is so ubiquitous it's obviously not *only* being appreciated by the kink community, or even by people with kinks they're no conscious of, but that on the contrary its phenomenal popularity is a sign that our culture, problematically, assumes female submission as a default value. It even sounds to me like because Ms. Myers didn't *intend* to write a BDSM Romance, the text itself blurs the lines between consensual BDSM and abuse in a skeevy way.

That said,I'm attracted to the BDSM interpretation because, well, I have friends who like Twilight and I'd like to think better of their taste. And while this can't be the entire explanation, I do think that these kinds of kinks are a lot more common than anybody lets on, and so I don't think the mainstreaming of kink, even femsub, is a harm *per se* and I think a careful critic can, and should, criticize the flaws in this particular book without condemning all femsub erotica.

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at 04:30 on 2009-12-21

I've not read the books and have no desire to, but Kit Whitfield has an interesting and more sympathetic take: she considers the book a depiction of a fantastic, diealized BDSM relationship:

So this is probably a bit off topic and (disclaimer) I don't speak from experience but from some research. As far as I understand what makes a healthy BDSM relationship is the knowledge and communication.

You don't just find yourself in a such a relationship (unromatic I know) you go into the relationship with the foreknowledge that you are entering a BDSM relationship with previously discussed and set up fail-safes so you and your partner don't end up crossing any lines. Which is what is missing in Twilight (and 1 million other romance novels). It's all the titillation of BDSM without any of the foundations that make it safe and fun.

So while I don't fault Twilight for it's romanticized BDSM it is part of whole genre of romantic BDSM and fantasy!rape. I don't think I could call it a good representation of a functioning BDSM relationship.

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Melissa G.

at 04:33 on 2009-12-21

So then what do you make of its popularity?

I imagine it's the same reason that we find this "BDSM/fantasy!rape" in the majority of romance novels. I'm not a psychologist or sociologist, but I can make a guess where the attraction comes from - even to someone who doesn't have that "kink".

The fantasy!rape situation allows for two things. 1) The woman doesn't have to admit to wanting sex and thus is spared the shame of having sexual desire. (She shouldn't have this shame, but because of things like Victorian age repression, a lot of women do.) and 2) It gives something of an ego boast to think that you are so sexy/amazing that he just can't control himself and must have you NOW! (Not to mention the long-standing idea that women are only worthwhile if they're attractive and what's a better gauge of your attractiveness than having a guy unable to control his sexual desires around you).

I definitely think the attraction to the fantasy!rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views women's sexuality. But sadly, I can totally see the attraction in these ideas, and I know I'm not alone. I mean, most romance is written by women for women and includes - what would be in the real world - very self-destructive behaviors. "No means yes" being the major one. And the thing is, I find nothing wrong with women taking private delight in this idea as long as they know full well that they are reading trashy romance novels and that this is a FANTASY.

The problem I have with Twilight falling into this category of romance is that it's marketed toward teens rather than adults, and it pretend to have wholesome, positive messages toward sex like, "Don't have sex before marriage".

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Melissa G.

at 04:58 on 2009-12-21And I want to clarify that I'm not saying that people who partake in BDSM are in some way perpetrating "negative female beahavior" or anything. What they are doing is between two consenting partners who have discussed all this beforehand. And I have no problem with BDSM and those who do it.

I'm speaking directly to why fantasy!rape is such an attractive idea to women.

**I'm going to bed so it may be a while before I'm able to respond again, fyi.

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Rami

at 05:13 on 2009-12-21The impression I'm getting from this discussion is that interpreting it as an idealized dom/sub relationship would assume a level of relative sensibility and communication between the people involved that isn't actually supported by the text. Which makes said interpretation rather problematic. Or have I missed something?

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http://ninjacatman.livejournal.com/

at 05:24 on 2009-12-21

The impression I'm getting from this discussion is that interpreting it as an idealized dom/sub relationship would assume a level of relative sensibility and communication between the people involved that isn't actually supported by the text. Which makes said interpretation rather problematic. Or have I missed something?

yes or at least that is what I was awkwardly aiming at.

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 05:25 on 2009-12-21@Ninjacatman

What you say about BDSM is also how I understand the matter to be. I tried to say as much somewhere in my wall of text. The trick is, while communication and trust are the difference between BDSM play and abuse, they're also the difference between a good vanilla relationship and a shitty one.

Erotic fiction generally doesn't bother to depict all of the set-up work required for a healthy vanilla relationship, so it seems to me that BDSM erotica should get the same fantasy-license--at least when it's clearly labeled. The trouble with Twilight is that it isn't marketed as BDSM and its author doesn't acknowledge it as a kinky relationship.

@Melissa G.

I don't think children are as in need of protection as you seem to feel. Sure, some children get bad ideas from things they read: I got plenty of bad ideas about life from my own fantasy diet, though I like to think I didn't absorb too much of the misogyny.

But teenagers can be pretty savvy readers, and especially in the age of internet fandom I think it's pretty obvious that teenagers can engage critically with their favorite texts and decide what they like and what they don't. Furthermore, setting aside the example of Twilight specifically, i'm concerned that you feel fantasy!rape is something only adult women should be permitted to read about.

Teenagers are people who are growing into their sexuality and exploring their sexual imagination, and I think consciously chose "exploring" over "forming." Most of the kinky people I know well enough to discuss this with reported basically having their kinks from a very early age, often before they had a real awareness of sexuality. Sure, the way our media sexualises violence probably shapes the way some teenagers perceive sexuality, but it's important to remember that teendom isn't any child's first exposure to the media; those ideas have been around for a while.

On the basis of the anecdotal evidence available to me, I think a substantial number of people reach the age of 13 with a pre-existing and life-long attraction to fantasy!rape. To tell those people of either gender that they, unlike their vanilla peers, don't deserve access to sexually compelling literature seems a little repressive.

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Rami

at 05:31 on 2009-12-21

To tell those people of either gender that they, unlike their vanilla peers, don't deserve access to sexually compelling literature seems a little repressive.

I don't think anyone has suggested that so far.

I think a substantial number of people reach the age of 13 with a pre-existing and life-long attraction to fantasy!rape

That seems like an odd conclusion to draw, and while I obviously don't know the anecdotal evidence available to you, I personally would find such a conclusion extremely dubious.

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 05:33 on 2009-12-21Melissa,

Sorry for double--post, I didn't see your latest comment before posting mine, which reassures me that your heart is in the right place. I stand by the substance of the comment though: Twilight may be problematic, but to state as you seem to that fantasy!rape is not appropriate material for teenage girls is, in my opinion, too far.

@Rami,

Idealized, not ideal. It's not a depiction of a relationship that would be healthy in real life; it's a relationship that only works in a fantasy world where you and your partner magically want the same thing without discussion.

Rennaissance fair fetishists don't (usually) read stories about people dressing as kings and queens, they read stories about fantasy!kings and fantasy!queens. Similarly, people who like pretending to be abused in real life would generally prefer to read about fantasy!abuse than other people pretending to be abused.

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http://ninjacatman.livejournal.com/

at 05:35 on 2009-12-21

Erotic fiction generally doesn't bother to depict all of the set-up work required for a healthy vanilla relationship, so it seems to me that BDSM erotica should get the same fantasy-license--at least when it's clearly labeled. The trouble with Twilight is that it isn't marketed as BDSM and its author doesn't acknowledge it as a kinky relationship.

Yes, sorry I hadn't realized you posted again. My point isn't that it's bad erotica but that I don't know if I would feel comfortable calling it idealized or a good BDSM relationship rather than just calling it good erotica (which often seems to be based around bad relationships).

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Melissa G.

at 05:44 on 2009-12-21

i'm concerned that you feel fantasy!rape is something only adult women should be permitted to read about.

Oh, not at all! Teens should be free to explore and develop their sexuality as they come into it. I'd rather they be informed than not. But these romanticized texts of "fantasy!rape" and "fantasy!BDSM" need to be categorized as such. Twilight is definitely not. It's packaged as a loving, ideal relationship.

As someone who had been attracted to the idea of fantasy!rape early on as well as being a feminist, I had to really work through these things in my mind to try and understand where the attraction came from. And I had to work to draw that line in my mind that this would not be acceptable in "real life" but as a "fantasy" is fine. (Like I said, BDSM in it's true form is fine in real life b/c it follows certain rules and guidelines in its community that are not present in its fantasy/romanticized incarnations.)

But I do have to admit that the idea of someone writing erotica *marketed* toward teens makes me a little squeamish. If teens find erotica themselves and buy it full well understanding what it is, I'm fine with that. What I object to the use of it in Twilight b/c of how Twilight is packaged.

**Okay, to bed for real this time. Back later.

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Rami

at 05:52 on 2009-12-21

Idealized, not ideal. It's not a depiction of a relationship that would be healthy in real life; it's a relationship that only works in a fantasy world

Ah, I think I see where you're coming from. In which case my objection becomes the same as Melissa's: everywhere I've seen it being pushed, it's being pushed as an ideal -- something to aspire to, something that could happen, something that people should actively search for. I've actually spoken to adults who lauded it as a perfect relationship that they wished they could have found. And that's absurd, and simply reinforces already-unrealistic portrayals of what relationships should be.

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http://katsullivan.insanejournal.com/

at 06:55 on 2009-12-21I have to go with the person said that all the anti-Twilight feeling based on the idea that the books are so damaging to young, impressionable women is bothersome. Dare I even say that that mentality - that girls need to be shielded in a way that boys never seem to need to be - is anti-feminist? Because it implies a quality of moral/mental character exists in men that is lacking in women. To use the James Bond to Sam Whittacker examples: Both are high-fantasy male characters (starring in badly written, plot-holed filled stories) that have the potential to influence little boys as badly as Bella is supposed to influence little girls. But very few people seem to think that teenage boys need to be told that while slapping women around worked for Sean Connery, it won't work for them/land them in jail. And Sam Whittacker, probably the most repulsive male wish-fulfillment character of the decade, doesn't come with a cautionary sign either. Don't let me touch Watchmen, or Harry Potter and the bad messages Rowling sends out to both boys *and* girls e.g. You "mature" when you fool around with a girl that likes you to get the attention of the one you do. Oops, I gues I did touch it after all.

What I'm trying to say in a rather long-winded way is that it's hard for me to be suddenly upset about Twilight's negative messages when, in my opinion, more damaging media works have been existence and will no doubt, continue to be in existence, with nary a comment. Neither can I help but wonder if the pro-feminist criticism is actually walking on some anti-feminist legs: Twilight is targeted because its female author wrote a female-viewpoint story for a female audience and has had the affrontery to, against all odds, be successful.

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Melissa G.

at 07:25 on 2009-12-21

But very few people seem to think that teenage boys need to be told that while slapping women around worked for Sean Connery, it won't work for them/land them in jail.

See, in my opinion, yes. Yes, this really does need to be told to young boys. But, the other thing is, that James Bond movies are not *targeted* nor *marketed* to young boys. Neither was Watchmen, which I hated. They are marketed toward adults, and are rated as such. If kids see them and get ideas in their heads they aren't mature enough to fully understand, I really do believe that someone needs to sit down and set them straight.

And, oh, god, yes, Harry Potter bothers me IMMENSELY. But I'm not talking about JKR here. I'm talking about Twilight and Meyer.

Twilight is targeted because its female author wrote a female-viewpoint story for a female audience and has had the affrontery to, against all odds, be successful.

The reason I take issue with her being a female writer is because I do feel like she should have more sense than to write what she does. The same way I think Rowling should have more sense than to write what she does about women. And, yes, men shouldn't do it either, and that's why we're far more likely to call them out on it when they do. But we seem to like to give women a pass for writing sexist material because "women can't possibly be sexist!" Which is completely untrue. And that's the only reason I mentioned her gender at all.

Twilight has a rather irresponsible, damaging message for everyone when it tries to call Bella/Edward an ideal relationship. And putting that aside, it's badly written and poorly conceived. It's just plain not a good book. And part of that has a lot to do with it saying it's doing one thing and unintentionally doing another - the very same thing we all take issue with Harry Potter for doing. So I don't understand why it's acceptable to attack Rowling and not Meyer.

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 07:45 on 2009-12-21Rowling is an excelletn parallel though; there's plenty of Rowling criticism on this website calling it badly written, the characters awful and unappealing, and the moral message hrrifying. But I've never seen anyone, on this site or really anywhere, call Harry Potter "damaging" and suggest that it's dangerous for kids to read it.

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Melissa G.

at 08:01 on 2009-12-21If people took the morality lessons of Harry Potter and emulated them, I would call that "damaging" personally. And to bring back something Rami said above:

I've actually spoken to adults who lauded it as a perfect relationship that they wished they could have found.

This is what is damaging. This is an actual problem. If you can read Twilight and dismiss it as trashy romantic fun, I have no problem with that. It's the above behavior - wanting to emulate the Bella/Edward relationship and have it for yourself - that I find so disturbing.

I'm not saying people

shouldn't

read Twilight. I'm saying they should fully recognize and understand it as a fantasy of a relationship. If they don't, that's when it gets damaging.

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Arthur B

at 08:11 on 2009-12-21Like I allude to above with my second comment on the article (waaaaay, long ago), I think the reason that people bring up the "damaging" tag more often with Twilight than with HP is that the damage which could come from someone taking the lessons of Twilight to heart is very, very obvious. Women already get trapped in abusive relationships with controlling men far, far too often; we really don't need more media telling us that Abuse Is Love, Freedom Is Slavery, and Ignorance Is Strength.

That said, I do think Potter has messages which are equally damaging - I'm particularly concerned by the fact that it seems to say "If the voice of authority is ugly and telling you things you don't want to hear, it's evil, if it seems like a kindly old man who occasionally keeps things secret from you for your own good, it's OK". But I would argue that you need to look at Potter far more carefully to find the dubious messages than you do Twilight, where the troubling factor is the

very premise

of the story.

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 09:08 on 2009-12-21I'm a little bit uncomfortable continuing this discussion. I got into it for the wrong reasons (emotional annoyance at reading *yet more Twilight bashing* coupled with a joy in nitpicking--did you know, for instance, that your assertion that vampires shouldn't be able to go out in the sun is contradicted by none other than the original Dracula?). I haven't read the book in question, which puts in the position of arguing about the book Ms. Whitfield suggested exists, not a book I know was actually written.

I also have every conceivable conflict of interest: I'm a barely-ex-teenage man with minor dominant fantasies in a relationship with a woman with submissive fantasies dating from her early childhood. My objectivity on this issue is probably thoroughly compromised.

I feel the need to lay that out there because what I have to say is somewhat confrontational: Your most recent comment, that you "have no problem" with reading twilight as trashy fun, and are only criticizing those who "laud it as a perfect relationship." I don't think that's an accurate summary of what you've posted.

It's true that's how you begin the OP, with an introduction I agree with absolutely. But the post seems to me to take a turn sideways here:

As an adult reading it as a guilty pleasure, you can indulge yourself in the James Dean-esque bad boy with a heart of gold thing and then let it go and return to reality. I don’t believe that most teenage and pre-teens girls have the emotional maturity that would allow them to do this.

In later comments, you added:

Oh, there's definitely some BD/fantasy rape aspects going on in there. A lot of romances fall into this TRAP (emphasis mine)

"I definitely think the attraction to the fantasy!rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views women's sexuality."

I'll agree with you as long as you strictly mean fantasy RAPE, but although you've used the terms interchangably (and I've followed suit), rape-play is not the whole of BDSM. I do believe that rape fantasy would go away in an egalitarian society; ritualized submission would not.

The Ms. Whitfield quote wasn't a scene in which Edward's fangs/dick were even an issue. It was about him managing her life, making her choices for her. This is, of course, the manifestation of thousands of years of patriarchal culture filtered through Myers' Mormon upbringing, and the author seems wrongheadedly to think that this is the natural order of things. But, it's also a compelling fantasy in its own right. I've had submissive fantasies in the past as well, and as someone who agonizes over small decisions and generally frets my life away, I'm prepared to claim that surrendering control is a fantasy whose appeal is not inherently rooted in sexism.

The problem I have with Twilight falling into this category of romance is that it's marketed toward teens rather than adults, and it pretend to have wholesome, positive messages toward sex...

"I do have to admit that the idea of someone writing erotica *marketed* toward teens makes me a little squeamish"

I'll try my hardest here not to put words in your mouth. I wrote and erased a few sentences of the form "it seems you have a problem with..." and then "I think the basic issues is that we don't see eye to eye on..." Let me just say that it is these statements that comments have raised my eyebrows and leave it at that. The following also caught my attention:

"As someone who *had been* (mine) attracted to the idea of fantasy!rape early on as well as being a feminist"

Do you mean to imply that you are no longer attracted to fantasy!rape? If so, how do you feel about this? Do you consider it a point of pride, or feel more mature for having outgrown it?

Finally, I wanted to comment on this:

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 09:11 on 2009-12-21Wow, somehow the end of my comment got click-dragged into the middle. I hate my touchpad. And need sleep. The discussion of this line: "I definitely think the attraction to the fantasy!rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views women's sexuality."

Was supposed to be the end of the post. The post continues from:

Oh, there's definitely some BD/fantasy rape aspects going on in there. A lot of romances fall into this TRAP (emphasis mine)

directly to

"The problem I have with Twilight falling into this category of romance is that it's marketed toward teens rather than adults, and it pretend to have wholesome, positive messages toward sex..."

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http://katsullivan.insanejournal.com/

at 09:45 on 2009-12-21Transformers, Watchmen (and the whole comic-book industry) and Harry Potter (Rowling was asked to use de-gendered initials so as not to frighten away the testosterone contingent) are targeted and marketed towards young boys. As for James Bond, some of the movies have been severely edited in the past (Goldeneye, License to Kill) to ensure that they do not exceed a PG-13 rating. So young boys may not be a primary target, but they're still part of the catchment market.

I'm not sure that the "women should have more sense" argument is one that empowers women in anyway. It's basically judging women on a different standard from men which is part of the inequality that feminism fights against. My argument isn't that Meyer isn't sexist by virtue of being a woman, or writing a woman's story. My argument is that I don't see this level of outrage directed at male-created & male-targeted stories. It is harmless-enough-to-ignore fantasy when it's men who are making it, but when it's made by a woman, it's suddenly dangerous and book-burning-worthy.

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Arthur B

at 10:10 on 2009-12-21@katsullivan:

It is harmless-enough-to-ignore fantasy when it's men who are making it, but when it's made by a woman, it's suddenly dangerous and book-burning-worthy.

Last time I'm going to repeat myself on this topic, I promise: all of the examples cited of stories aimed at young boys/men involve male protagonists who are quite specifically empowered in the texts concerned. (With the arguable exception of Harry Potter, but in that case he's going about doing precisely what an older wiser man wanted him to do.) The complaints about Twilight tend to centre on how much Bella is

dis

empowered. Given that we live in a society which empowers men to the hilt but isn't very good at empowering women, I think mildly different treatment of the subject matter is warranted.

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Arthur B

at 10:12 on 2009-12-21(Which isn't, of course, to say that the fantasies promoted for young men are beyond criticism on the basis that they empower men at the expense of women. They absolutely should be criticised on that basis. But that's a different criticism from saying "this story encourages people to surrender what empowerment they have.")

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http://katsullivan.insanejournal.com/

at 12:12 on 2009-12-21I've always seen how much or how little Bella is empowered as a subjective thing because the anti-Bella arguments that populate the Net have run the spectrum of her agency in the story, from complaining about it being too much to being too little.

What I have noticed is the common denominator is the bad example Bella and Twilight gives to women. Regardless of how empowered Bond, Potter or Whittacker are, they aren't giving good examples to men, either.

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Arthur B

at 12:18 on 2009-12-21Do you have a link to any of these arguments that say Bella is overempowered? I'd be interested to see them, most of the criticism I've seen takes the opposite view.

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Wardog

at 12:25 on 2009-12-21Ye Gods, I go to bed for one night and this happens.

First of all:

@Arthur

Firstly, James Bond is fairly blatantly a sexual masochist - I don't know how that fits into the idea of empowering role models for men. Not that I'm not saying sexual masochists can't be empowering or role models, it's just a bit off the beaten path (lol) for aspirational literature.

Secondly, is there any problem, inherently, with what might be considered "non empowering fantasies "for women? I mean, there's definitely a distinction between "you should be like this" and sheer fantasy-space, which is how most people see Twilight.

@Orionsnebula

Thanks for all your coments by the way, all very interesting, especially the link to Ms Whitfield. I tend to roll my eyes at Twilight but I'm not necessarily as incensed about it as Melissa - I actually enjoyed the first book, and thought it was a fun fantasy, but then I got rather squicked by the later books when I realised the problems associated with Meyer's profound lack of self-awareness. The thing is, as you yourself, acknowledge (and I'm sorry I lost the direct quote in all the text), although Whitfield's reading is compelling, it is not actually *directly* supported by the text, it's something you can read out of it in an effort to make it more interesting / acceptable. A bit like The Taming of the Shrew - you can read that as a consensual BDSM relationship between two difficult adults who have finally met their match (and I saw a version of it that *really* played this up - lots of pretty explicit hints to show they both knew entirely what they were up to, and having lots of fun with it) OR you can read it offensive, patriarchal, misogynist propaganda.

I don't have any problems with the idea that Bella/Edward ARE in a BDSM relationship, I just think that you've got a problem if they're UNCONSCIOUSLY involved in one, and the author has no idea what she's doing.

Again, I have no problem with teenagers confronting these issues per se but I don't think via Twilight is the route.

And the fact that Bella is as wet as an October afternoon (metaphorically I mean) further compromises the BDSM reading - I don't have much insight into the submissive mindset myself but I think most people would agree that submissive women are strong, capable and independent who *choose* to submit. Bella seems genuinely incapable of staying alive most of the time - there'd be very pleasure little in the submission of someone so blatantly rubbish :) Sorry, that's a slightly frivolous point but ultimately reading Bella as a submissive does no kindness to submissives.

And finally: @Melissa et al

The romance/rape device. Come on folks, get your heads out of the 70s. This is a *MUCH LESS COMMON* device than people seem to realise. In fact, I can't remember the last time I encountered it in a modern romance (oh, wait I can, it's Claiming the Courtesan) - if there is an element of sexual submission, texts are at a much greater liberty to address it directly, rather cloaking it behind a facade of rape fantasy. Again, you can still find rape fantasies if you're looking for them (see CtC above) but, again, they tend to be served up with self-knowledge, self-awareness and in much more "healthy" fantasy contexts. The problem with the "rape" fantasy is that it often attempted to address in an underhand way a lot of seemingly less acceptable fantasies - the idea that a man was so into he couldn't stop him, sexual submission, abdication of responsibilities to pleasure etc. etc. It's not a fantasy about rape per se, it's a fantasy about other things connected to the idea of being raped. Nowadays these ideas can be directly addressed and explored so the 'need' for the hero to rape the heroine has diminished.

I most assuredly don't believe that fantasy rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views female sexuality. I don't think you give women enough credit for their fantasies, and I do, in fact, believe it can be perfectly healthy fantasy.

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Arthur B

at 12:34 on 2009-12-21

Secondly, is there any problem, inherently, with what might be considered "non empowering fantasies "for women? I mean, there's definitely a distinction between "you should be like this" and sheer fantasy-space, which is how most people see Twilight.

I think the main thrust of Melissa's argument is that there are a disturbing number of people who really do see Twilight as an ideal for living, though.

There is, of course, absolutely no problem with fantasy-space taken as fantasy space. And there will always, of course, be a certain proportion of an audience that takes a fantasy outside fantasy-space, but that's their problem, not the author's. I suppose the real question is whether the proportion of Twilight's readers to take the ideas out of fantasy-space and decide that Bella is someone they should try to be is more or less the proportion you'd expect, or whether it's disproportionately large. This is not a question which anecdotal evidence can really answer, and until we set up the Ferret Statistics Bureau is probably not something we're likely to sort out here...

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Melissa G.

at 12:39 on 2009-12-21@orions

I stated many times that I have no problem with BDSM in its true form. It follows specific rules and guidelines that make it safe and enjoyable for those involved. Do I partake in it personally? No, I don't. But I have no problem with those who do.

The issue I was addressing - and I should have made it more clear - is the romanticized versions of BDSM and rape that you see in romance novels all the time. Because I think there is a big difference between not only real BDSM and fantasy!BDSM but also between fantasy!BDSM and fantasy!rape.

And I did purposely clarify that I wasn't trying to say that those who practice BDSM in real life are somehow sexist or anti-feminist - I was referring specifically to where the attraction to fantasy!rape comes from. And also there's nothing wrong with being attracted to fantasy!rape material.

And yes, I still read manga that reeks of fantasy!rape. But the fantasy!rape phenomena to me is completely different from rape-play, etc in real life because in the story these are not people who are consciously taking part in said behavior. It's just plain "actual rape" in which the person being violated actually doesn't mind so much. Fantasy!rape is just that. A fantasy. And it should never be confused with reality or - in my opinion - rape play between two consenting partners. Because while I enjoy reading about it, I certainly have no intentions or desire to act it out in real life.

Re: Dracula, it's been a while since I read it, but I'm pretty sure the vampires could not go out during the day, which is what I specified was a criteria.

I'm honestly willing to just agree to disagree with you at this point if you'd be more comfortable putting the conversation to bed.

My argument is that I don't see this level of outrage directed at male-created & male-targeted stories.

You don't? Because I certainly have. On this very site, for example. I feel we're far more likely to call men out on sexist behavior than we are women, and that *is* holding them to a different standard. Maybe I shouldn't have specified her gender; maybe I should have just said that the book was sexist and leave it at that. Because whether or not the writer was male or female, the book has some out-dated views about sex and sexuality. I'd be just as angry about this if it had been written by a male.

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Melissa G.

at 12:46 on 2009-12-21

This is a *MUCH LESS COMMON* device than people seem to realise.

The thing, Kyra, I read a lot of Boys Love manga, and it's all over the place in that. To the point where it starts to get disturbing. But I do admit that it's more common the more old-fashioned romance novels, and I'll take your word for it as I assume you read more romance than I do.

It's not a fantasy about rape per se, it's a fantasy about other things connected to the idea of being raped.

And yes, I totally agree with this.

I most assuredly don't believe that fantasy rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views female sexuality. I don't think you give women enough credit for their fantasies, and I do, in fact, believe it can be perfectly healthy fantasy.

I think it can be a healthy fantasy too. And as I said, I was merely trying to figure out where the attraction comes from. I'm not trying to submit that idea as fact.

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Melissa G.

at 13:03 on 2009-12-21I just want to clarify that I have no problem with anyone's personal fantasies or kinks. There's nothing unhealthy about having them. And if I insinuated to anyone that they should be ashamed or embarrassed about their fantasies, I do sincerely apologize.

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Wardog

at 13:12 on 2009-12-21I'm pretty sure nobody is genuinely annoyed - and equally pretty sure you weren't disparaging anybody's sexual preferences. I read through this when I woke up this morning and it seemed like lively discussion. Honestly, after the Graceling fiasco we're all way too nervy about stepping on each other's toes :)

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Melissa G.

at 14:28 on 2009-12-21I also realize that I wasn't being entirely clear when I said:

I definitely think the attraction to the fantasy!rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views women's sexuality.

I don't mean that having that fantasy or enjoying that fantasy makes you inherently sexist. I was trying to come at it from an extremely analytical point of view and how it works on a subconscious level. I think the attraction arises more out of a "coping mechanism" to the Madonna/Whore complex women have to live with every day and not that women who have these fantasies are in some way sexist. That wasn't at all what I meant to imply. I hope that makes it clearer what I was going for there and that I didn't just dig myself in deeper.

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Sister Magpie

at 15:41 on 2009-12-21Regarding Bella being over-empowered, I wonder if the point isn't that she's over-special? Doesn't she gain superspecial vampire powers, and two of them instead of one, and have no trouble controlling them right off? I would assume that's what people are referring to--but within the text she presumably remains as passive as ever in terms of her life.

I have a friend who was recently questioning the hatred of Twilight in terms of asking: How come when something is known as being loved by teenaged boys it's generally considered cool, but if it's known as loved by teenaged girls it's lame lame lame? I couldn't help but think of this here with the discussion of how there's less concern that boys be sheilded from something like HP--especially since I can understand the double standard in a way.

But part of it, for me, is maybe that I do feel a little embarassed when this kind of teen girl fantasy gets so popular. At least one conservative politician jumped on it as proof that despite what those unnatural feminists say this just proves that what girls really want is a man to obsess over their beauty and protect them while they are passively loved.

Which is maybe part of the danger. Not only do embarassing male adolescent fantasies tend to tread more into the danger zone of disrespecting other people while the female version comes close to disrespecting yourself, but girl fantasies--no matter if they are just a healthy part of their exploration of their own sexuality--is more likely to be manipulated to serve men. If we imagine a man and a woman both hopelessly stuck in immature fantasies the woman tends to risk ending up in a worse position.

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Arthur B

at 15:58 on 2009-12-21

Not only do embarassing male adolescent fantasies tend to tread more into the danger zone of disrespecting other people while the female version comes close to disrespecting yourself, but girl fantasies--no matter if they are just a healthy part of their exploration of their own sexuality--is more likely to be manipulated to serve men. If we imagine a man and a woman both hopelessly stuck in immature fantasies the woman tends to risk ending up in a worse position.

Thank you! This is a much better statement of the position I was trying to put forward. The man might disrespect other people, but he won't take any shit; it might be bad, in the sense that he's being horrible to people, but it won't be personally damaging to him, just the people he hurts as he cuts a swathe through life.

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 18:56 on 2009-12-21Melissa,

I appreciate all the disclaimers, I really do; I'm not accusing you of having your heart in the wrong place or wishing ill on anyone in the kink community.

I *think* we have a basic disagreement about childhood and adolescence, and the role sex, litereature, or sex literature plays in them.

I don't understand, for instance, why you would consider teen-targeted erotica, for instance, to be a squick; I think if written by someone other than Stephanie Myers it has the possibility to do a lot of good.

I can't point to a specific proposal you make about childrearing that I would object to--talking with kids about problematic movies, saying they should be free to explore their sexuality, and so on are all things I want to hear. But, probably because this started as a critique of a book, not a manifesto for youth education, I don't feel I have a coherent picture of how you think kids should interact with books. To be honest, what you've said still seems to me to be contradictory.

For example, you've said that teenagers should be free to explore sexuality through literature, but that writing erotica specifically for teenagers squicks you; to me, those positions aren't fully compatible. I don't know how it can be wrong to sell someone something it's okay for them to buy; for every market of readers there's a genre produced to meet their expectations. And honestly, I think a conscientious YA-targeted erotica writer could produce stuff that was better for kids than adult-targeted erotica which would naturally be about a different set of concerns.

Basically there's nothing more I can say at this point; some of your comments seem to have implications that trouble me, but I can't articulate the problem without putting words in your mouth. And it's difficult to get at the distinction I'm seeing between our stances on what's appropriate for teenagers without lapsing into scoring points by calling someone a prude.

In conclusion, I think I've said all I have to say about Twilight. I think there's room for an interesting conversation to be had about children and fiction in general, but that wasn't what the article was about. If you should choose at some point to explain in detail how you think children should approach fiction and what you think is acceptable to market to them, I'd read it with great interest.

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http://baihehua.livejournal.com/

at 18:56 on 2009-12-21Wow; long and meandering discussion.

I don't see anyone stating here that Twilight is a wonderful work of literature. There seems to be a consensus that Bella and Edward's relationship is not healthy. (If you want to view it as a BDSM relationship, I think that's fine, and there is certainly nothing wrong with BDSM in real life- with safewords and such-, but Bella and Edward's relationship as presented in the book does not seem healthy.)

I think one of the main problems (if not THE main problem) is the fact that this story is targeted to children- specifically prepubescent and pubescent girls. Girls are already being bombarded with social pressures to be meek, submissive, "feminine", etc; Meyer's work is certainly far from unique in this respect*. But Twilight is new, extremely popular, and sends this type of disempowering message in a very clear way. (This message, of course, is that it is perfectly acceptable for girls to wait for a man to protect them and make decisions for them.) Girls do not need any more messages to be docile little doormats, especially not from such popular sources.

The thing that I think most separates adult audiences from teen and preteen ones is that teens and children are still developing their opinions and beliefs about the world and themselves (discussed in many developmental analysis books). Whereas an adult can look at a character like Edward and think "he's hot/cute/sexy/such a bad boy, but I wouldn't want a boyfriend like him in real life", children and even many teens have a lot more trouble with that (not necessarily that they can't, but it's certainly harder). What the adult is doing there is interjecting his/her own outside beliefs ("I don't want a boyfriend like that"/"it's not okay for someone to act like that in real life") onto their understanding of this story. And that's great. But since children and many teens are still developing their beliefs, it is incredibly difficult for them to take still-forming opinions and contradict what the text seems to be saying. Twilight (or other materials) is much more likely to help *form* teens' beliefs about the world than it is to form adults'.

And that, I think, is the real problem. No one (that I know of, anyway) wants teens or children to emulate Bella's behavior (or Edward's, for that matter). But since teens and preteens are still developing their views of the world and themselves, they are much more likely to emulate or idolize these behaviors than adult readers would be.

As a result, I think authors of materials aimed at younger audiences need to be especially careful of negative messages their works may advocate. I'm sure most of these messages are completely unintentional, but authors (as responsible people) should try to be as aware as possible of what their material may be saying.

*I realize that these social messages are not as strong as they used to be, but they (like so many negative elements of society) are far from gone.

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Melissa G.

at 19:08 on 2009-12-21

I don't understand, for instance, why you would consider teen-targeted erotica, for instance, to be a squick;

Maybe we're defining erotica differently? In my mind erotica = a book written for the specific purpose of titillating and sexually arousing it's audience with sexually provocative scenes. Such as the book in Kyra's

latest review

. I don't think there's anything wrong with having sex scenes in teen books; if well written, they could be very beneficial. What bothers me is the idea of an adult writing a book whose *sole intent* is to try and sexually arouse teenagers. To me, that's squicky. It just is; I can't help it.

I think there's room for an interesting conversation to be had about children and fiction in general, but that wasn't what the article was about.

Yes, precisely. So while I am of course happy to discuss psychological/sociological issues with anyone, this really isn't the place for it. So I'd agree it's best to put the convo to rest.

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Arthur B

at 19:17 on 2009-12-21

I don't think there's anything wrong with having sex scenes in teen books; if well written, they could be very beneficial. What bothers me is the idea of an adult writing a book whose *sole intent* is to try and sexually arouse teenagers. To me, that's squicky. It just is; I can't help it.

I can see that. Adults writing books addressed to other adults with the intent of titillating or arousing them, and teenagers happening to chance across those books and enjoying them is one thing. Adults attempting to engage with the sexuality of teenagers on the level of titillation or arousal? Uh, not keen.

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 19:32 on 2009-12-21Arthur,

I couldn't agree less. Teenage sexuality is different from adult sexuality. Many can and will get something out of adult erotica, but teenagers as a group have different concerns and will find slightly different things appealing.

The most interesting part of Ms. Whitfield's article was the idea that Twilight and Flowers in the Attic embody a specifically *virginal* sexuality and that part of the challenge of writing sex scenes for kids is that many of them aren't familiar with the sensations of genital sex. The bruises and strained muscles and so on that Bella incurs when they do get down to banging, for instance, add a sensory dimension that kids will be familiar with.

So I do think that erotica for teenagers should be different from erotica for adults; plenty of teenagers seems to agree, choosing to participate in "lemon" fanfic communities rather than read mainstream erotica. But teen-for-teen erotica writers just produce an echo chamber where sexual ignorance and prejudices are amplified. And writing well is a skill developed over *years*.

Very few teenagers, in my opinion, are capable of producing honest, readable teen-targeted erotica; that's something that has to be left to adults with the perspective of age.

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Andy G

at 19:39 on 2009-12-21@ Arthur and Orionsnebula: I kind of agree with Orionsnebula here, I think in principle it's not really that different from the way the adult writers of something like Skins are tapping into teen fantasies. Adults writing erotica for teens is not in the same category as adults making sexual advances to teens, if that was an aspect you weren't keen on (though I may be putting words into your mouth there), any more than adults writing erotica for adults are doing so to their readers.

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 19:46 on 2009-12-21My name is Orion, by the way; My (defunct) blog was a joke on my name

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Arthur B

at 19:55 on 2009-12-21

Adults writing erotica for teens is not in the same category as adults making sexual advances to teens, if that was an aspect you weren't keen on (though I may be putting words into your mouth there), any more than adults writing erotica for adults are doing so to their readers.

You see, to me there's a difference between fiction with a heavily sexualised element which may titillate but doesn't have titillation as its main purpose (such as Skins, to use your example) and erotica, wherein sexual titillation is pretty much the entire purpose of the proceedings and any additional meaning is pretty much secondary.

I have never seen an example of an adult writing the latter for teenagers; I think it's the sort of thing that teenagers are better off exploring with other teenagers (such as on the lemon fic communities Orionsnebula refers to). I am unsure whether you could successfully pull it off without coming off as deeply creepy. I would love to hear about any counter-examples.

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Arthur B

at 19:59 on 2009-12-21(Though I want to stress that I don't think that intelligent, meaningful erotica is impossible - just that I would only classify as "erotica" fiction where the main purpose is titillation. Additional meaning can, and doubtless does, arise as an adjunct to this, but if the main purpose of the story isn't the arousal of the reader, what's the difference between erotica and normal fiction which includes sex scenes?)

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Robinson L

at 20:30 on 2009-12-21All right! I've been looking forward to this. Ptolemaues has been ranting about this series for over two years, and though I've never read any of it myself, I've picked up quite a lot second-hand from her and her fellow haters; and all this matches up pretty well with what I've gathered elsewhere.

She also

made a start

on

New Moon

, but she hasn't looked at it in months. (Unfortunate, as I enjoy her rants tremendously, but on the other hand I guess exposing herself to that stuff must be toxic to her health.) She also takes issue with Bella's treatment of Jessica, among other things.

[Bella} seems to have a bad enough relationship with her father that she calls him by his first name

Not sure about this; two of ptolemaeus' best friends call their fathers by their first names, and I don't think it's indicative of a bad relationship in either case. Then again, I presume Meyer never bothers to explain why Bella calls her father by his first name.

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http://ninjacatman.livejournal.com/

at 20:36 on 2009-12-21

[Bella} seems to have a bad enough relationship with her father that she calls him by his first name

From what I remember about the book (it's been a while) the way this is introduced it is meant to imply that Bella doesn't have a close relationship with her father.

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Melissa G.

at 20:51 on 2009-12-21

Not sure about this; two of ptolemaeus' best friends call their fathers by their first names, and I don't think it's indicative of a bad relationship in either case.

I feel like there was something in the book that hinted at this, but I don't have it in front of me to find out for sure. I remember distinctly being given the impression that she didn't get along with her father, and she does state that he doesn't like her calling him "Charlie". She says she can't do it in front of him. That to me is different from a consensual attitude toward it.

You see, to me there's a difference between fiction with a heavily sexualised element which may titillate but doesn't have titillation as its main purpose (such as Skins, to use your example) and erotica, wherein sexual titillation is pretty much the entire purpose of the proceedings and any additional meaning is pretty much secondary.

This was pretty much what I was getting at. The goal of erotica is not to "inform" (for lack of a better word), it's meant to "arouse". I think a teen fiction book that deals heavily with teenage sexuality as a theme and thus has a lot of sex scenes (which teens may or may not find titillating) is one thing and writing erotica for teens is another. The former is an exploratory look at sex between teens paying careful attention to what it's doing.

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Melissa G.

at 21:03 on 2009-12-21@Robinson L.:

Thanks for the link to your sister's lj entry! I got a kick out of that!

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Andy G

at 00:41 on 2009-12-22

I have never seen an example of an adult writing the latter for teenagers; I think it's the sort of thing that teenagers are better off exploring with other teenagers (such as on the lemon fic communities Orionsnebula refers to). I am unsure whether you could successfully pull it off without coming off as deeply creepy. I would love to hear about any counter-examples.

I know nothing about erotic fiction, my response was more to try and tease out if "creepiness" was the problem you were getting at, as I think it is an interesting question whether it would necessarily be an issue. Not an interesting question to which I have an answer however.

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Arthur B

at 01:35 on 2009-12-22Yes; I'm not satisfied that the best problem I can come up with in terms of adults writing out-and-out erotica for teens is "creepiness" - it's a bit Daily Mail isn't it? - which is why I would genuinely welcome anyone pointing out genuine examples of adults trying to write fiction which is primarily intended to arouse teenagers through the portrayal of sexual situations so we can have some data points.

I mean, you could make an argument for Twilight. But there's two issues there: firstly, Twilight is terrified of sex, to the extent that it is symbolised in the stories by sacrifice, bleeding, and undeath, which is pretty fatal for erotica (which requires a certain amount of sexual hoopla to really qualify as erotica in the first plaxce), but works far better for romance (the pursuit of innocence, the deflowering a culmination of the relationship developed throughout the story, etc.), which is a pretty big indication that Twilight falls on the "romance" side of the border. And also, Twilight creeps me the hell out, so it's not likely to change my mind on the erotica-for-teens concept. ;)

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 02:16 on 2009-12-22I don't actually read much erotica, so i can't think of any targeted to teenagers. I have to admit, I just always assumed it must exist.

The closest I come is fantasy writers like Melanie Rawn and Mercedes Lackey. None of her books are *strictly* about sex, but in several of the YA books (cough*ArrowsFlight*cough) the sex gets a huge chunk of the page count and is substantially more interesting than the main plot.

But if you'll gant the following premises:

1: It's okay for teens to read erotica

2: any two demographic groups will have different tastes as a matter of statistics

and

3: good writers are generally adults

it seems to follow that among the erotic stories it is possible to write, some will appeal more to teens, other to adults, and that the best of those stories will probably be written by adults, not children.

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Robinson L

at 03:00 on 2009-12-22

Thanks for the link to your sister's lj entry! I got a kick out of that!

Glad to hear it! Thought you might!

If you really liked it, I'm sure she'd appreciate comments. (Which you should be able to do anonymously if you don't already have an account.)

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Melissa G.

at 03:18 on 2009-12-22

If you really liked it, I'm sure she'd appreciate comments.

I was going to, but when I realized how long ago the entry was from, I thought it'd be weird so I didn't. ^_^;

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http://ninjacatman.livejournal.com/

at 03:43 on 2009-12-22

The closest I come is fantasy writers like Melanie Rawn and Mercedes Lackey. None of her books are *strictly* about sex, but in several of the YA books (cough*ArrowsFlight*cough) the sex gets a huge chunk of the page count and is substantially more interesting than the main plot.

But see that means it's not erotica, even if there is a lot of sex it's not just about the sex (whether the main plot is more interesting or not). Even trashy Harlequinn romances aren't erotica, they're trashy romances which have a lot of sex in them but are technically about the relationship with sex as a bonus. Erotica is the other way around.

One of the problems I think Melissa and Arthur and even me are having is when we think of erotica we think of the erotica we have come across which is written by adults with a distinctly adult view of sex. I can't think of erotica that has been written for teens with a distinctly teenage mindset. But that I'm thinking about, it doesn't like a bad idea, to write books about having sex from an actual teenage point of view.

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http://ninjacatman.livejournal.com/

at 03:44 on 2009-12-22***But now that I'm thinking about, it doesn't seem like a bad idea, to write books about having sex from an actual teenage point of view.***

because sometimes I skip important words when i type.

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Robinson L

at 15:30 on 2009-12-22

If you really liked it, I'm sure she'd appreciate comments. I was going to, but when I realized how long ago the entry was from, I thought it'd be weird so I didn't. ^_^;

Yeah, I know the feeling. Still, even if it is extremely belated, I think she'd appreciate feedback from someone who isn't a member of her family. Besides, she's probably either reading this already or will be soon enough, so it's not as if it would be out-of-the-blue.

Still up to you, of course. *shrugs*

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http://mary-j-59.livejournal.com/

at 16:04 on 2009-12-22I don't really have a lot to say here. I did read the series, and pretty much enjoyed the first three books, though they are certainly not great literature and I ended up raising my eyebrows in certain places. But I enjoyed this even more:

http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html

Seriously, Sparkledammerung will tell you all you ever need to know about what "Twilight" is *really* about - and it's a hoot, besides.

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Melissa G.

at 16:32 on 2009-12-22@Mary J

Thanks for the link! I knew there was a Mormon influence in the book but I don't know enough about the religion to feel able to discuss it myself. So this was really interesting for me to read! I liked her picture inclusions too. ^^

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Arthur B

at 16:47 on 2009-12-22A note: this year we've had:

- This article.

- My review of

Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines

.

- Dan's article about

the philosophy of identity

, which included notes on the metaphysical underpinnings of vampirism in the

Buffy

setting.

- My review of

Let the Right One In

.

- And Kyra's first article of the year was another

Twilight article

.

Have we just accidentally had our very own Year of the Vampire? Is it time for a vampire theme? (Or perhaps an expansion of the zombies theme to include undeath in general?) Should we put a moratorium on further Twilight articles so that it never, ever, ever qualifies for a theme?

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Sister Magpie

at 18:52 on 2009-12-22What, no True Blood?

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Arthur B

at 19:01 on 2009-12-22The search feature's showing some mention in the PlayPen, but no articles. I don't remember wrong, but I might just be being forgetful...

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Shim

at 19:42 on 2009-12-22Wow, I'm late... I have also not read this book. Oh well... I feel like for this discussion, the "boys' trash" (basically) mentioned is a bit different from

Twilight

, whatever you think about quality or empowerment. It's about the type of characters these people are supposed to be.

James Bond, Rambo, Conan... they are basically military types with very unusual lives, and the books/films are about the way they defeat obstacles and kick ass. Boys certainly tend to think what they do is cool, but they're so far removed from typical lives that there's not much direct parallel in terms of how to behave. Of course, they all glamorise violence and relentless enmity as ways to deal with problems. One might argue that the contexts are all military ones and a bit different to everyday problems, which might reduce the effect, but I think it's there. I'd say the typical influence is to make boys want to be strong, hardy, resolute, and maybe suave. On the whole, I think there won't be many situations where boys could think "oh, this is just like what happened to Conan" and approach or interpret situations in a similar way.

Twilight

is all about vampires and magic, but the heroine is supposedly fairly ordinary, and designed for girls to empathise with. She does normal stuff. Relationships with people are the core of the book, from what I gather (like, it being a romance). That being the case, stripped-down versions of some situations in the book could happen to real girls - getting followed around, having their boundaries pushed by boys, having the pace of relationships controlled by boys, and... whatever else happens in the book I haven't read. So it's

perhaps

more likely that the portrayal of Bella and the relationship, which is supposedly ideal, will influence girls' approach to similar situations in their own lives.

To some extent I might also say that James Bond, Rambo et al. aren't really held up as role models. Few people (some, but few) would say James Bond is a model for relationships with others - he doesn't seem to have friends, is egotistical, throws himself into danger unnecessarily, is incredibly cynical... And while his string of girls might appeal at first, boys don't only want sex. But also, these heroes only show the characteristics they do because of their extraordinary lives. If Conan settled down as a shepherd somewhere and found a girlfriend, I've no idea what he'd be like, because you don't usually find out much about their real selves, only the traits relevant to adventures. Bond would probably be that self-important git in the office who seems to have a new girlfriend every week and a whole string of enemies at work and outside.

Sorry, that rambles a bit but I hope it makes sense.

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Robinson L

at 20:02 on 2009-12-22

What, no True Blood?

Not yet. Once I've read

Dead to the World

I intend to begin work on a review of the book series (which, at my speed, should be ready sometime in March), but I've yet to see even one episode of the tv show, and I haven't seen anybody else tackle it here yet.

I agree with Arthur's suggestion of including a theme handle which includes "Vampires." I'd personally favor a new handle, given the large backlog of articles in our archives, it seems to me more differentiation among them would be all to the good.

Oh, and Melissa, congratulations on getting into the top five most-discussed articles.

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Melissa G.

at 20:20 on 2009-12-22

What, no True Blood?

I've seen the show, and while I didn't *love* it, I didn't hate it either. I'm basically too indifferent to invest my time in an article personally. :-) But I'm looking forward to reading a review of the book series if it appears here on FB. I'm curious how it will compare to the show.

Oh, and Melissa, congratulations on getting into the top five most-discussed articles.

Thanks! I'm very excited about that! ^_^

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Sister Magpie

at 20:30 on 2009-12-22Heh--I'm not really missing the True Blood articles. It just seemed like it went with the theme. I've never read the books, but like the TV series. I started out thinking it was just too silly for words, but was somehow looking forward to it every week so I have to admit I'm a fan.

On the subject of vampires that aren't vampires, I really wanted to agree with this article, actually. Of course anybody can take out certain details and still have the character be a vampire (even something so big as "can go out in the sun") but the problem with so many modern vampire stories is they so often want to have the cool parts without any of the sacrifice that's supposed to make it horrible. This goes double if the person isn't even particularly doing anything wrong.

I always remember someone--I think it was Cassie Claire, actually, criticizing Moonlight for that reason and saying that if you wanted a vampire story you'd be better off watching Dexter, since he's pretty much a vampire despite not actually being a vampire. Just because he's a monster who preys on humans while looking like one of them, and he has a hunger for blood he can't deny.

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Arthur B

at 20:48 on 2009-12-22I think also there's an certain extent to which, if you want to tap into the old vampire myths, you have to include at least a tiny amount of the trappings which go with them, if only on an allegorical level (as with Dexter), otherwise you're trying to freeride on the reputation of vampires without really developing a proper connection to the myth.

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Shim

at 21:13 on 2009-12-22Well, vampires nowadays tend to ignore the inconvenient mythological basis of being, y'know,

actually, genuinely dead

. And depending on your myth of choice, repulsive. And not necessarily having human motivations any more. Obviously it all depends a bit where you decide your vampires are "rooted" - the folk versions (from my reading a long time ago) seemed a lot more monstrous undead horror, without the personality of Dracula or whoever.

I note that they don't seem to turn ordinary people into corrupted semi-human serfs any more, either. Now that might be an interesting twist for Twilight's take on relationships...

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Melissa G.

at 21:49 on 2009-12-22

I have to admit I'm a fan

I also find True Blood very addictive. ^^ Even though Bill is a bit of a "pussy-vampire", we also get Eric who is an old-school sadistic freak vampire, which makes me really happy. I loved when he got blood in his hair and had to cut it!

And depending on your myth of choice, repulsive.

I think Anne Rice had a lot to do with making vampires hot. :-)

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Andy G

at 22:04 on 2009-12-22On the year of the Vampire front, did anyone see Thirst? I thought that was great. And definitely didn't cut back on the nastier side of the vampire myth.

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Sister Magpie

at 01:17 on 2009-12-23Thirst, the Australian film from years ago?

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Andy G

at 02:08 on 2009-12-23No, the Korean film from this year by Chan-woon Park.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0762073/

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Sister Magpie

at 02:40 on 2009-12-23I haven't seen it. I must remember to check it out--if it's good. Is it good?

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Melissa G.

at 02:49 on 2009-12-23

I must remember to check it out--if it's good.

Ditto! It sounds really intriguing. And I've heard good things about Korean horror in general (assuming it falls into that category).

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Andy G

at 10:32 on 2009-12-23Personally I loved it. There are some awesome trailers for it around too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODoagpV68gA

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 18:04 on 2009-12-23Again, I'd blame Bram Stoker for this stuff before I'd blame Anne Rice.

We don't know the story with titular lead, but Dracula-vampires explicitly don't have to be "already dead". At least, Mina Harker gets to turn halfway and get vampire powers while she's still alive.

Furthermore, Dracula can and does go out during the day, not once but twice. First Jonathan runs into him in the streets of London, then when they attack him in his coffin during the day, he escapes and runs out into the streets. While in the sun, he can't use any of his magic powers, but suffers no harm.

Honestly, Bram Stoker decided that vampires were going to be about sex--which worked as horror in Victorian England. But as our culture gets a little more honest and open about sexuality, sex-vampires become less scary and more tittilating.

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Melissa G.

at 19:38 on 2009-12-23

Again, I'd blame Bram Stoker for this stuff before I'd blame Anne Rice.

I certainly wouldn't. Bram Stoker's Dracula (and I'm speaking specifically to the book not any of the movies based on it) is not supposed to be sexy. His physical description (what little there is of it) is not overly flattering. We're not meant to think that Mina is drawn to him because she is physically attracted to him; she isn't. She's drawn to his animal sexual magnetism, or through his powers of mind control.

In Dracula, the sun isn't fatal to the Count, but it does render him powerless. This forces him to adjust his daily life to sleeping during the day (in his coffin filled with dirt) and going out at night when he is powerful. The important thing is that "the sun is a curse to vampires". While it doesn't necessarily have to kill them (Supernatural is a good example of when it worked for me that the sun wasn't fatal), it should be detrimental to them in some way. Causing them to sparkle really isn't a detriment in any way, shape, or form. And that's the problem with the Twilight vampires.

And Mina certainly doesn't gain vampire powers in the book, nor does Lucy. They just waste away in illness as they lose more and more blood. Dracula does give Mina his blood to turn her, but she won't become a vampire until her death when she rises up out of her coffin as Lucy tried to do. Towards the end, she starts to have a sort of psychic connection to Dracula himself, but I wouldn't call that "vampire powers". Dracula has linked himself to her through his blood and she is using that link against him.

The thing to remember about the difference between Anne Rice's work and Bram Stoker's is that Stoker's was condemning sex. Don't give in to your dark sexual urges, it will make you a monster. It's true that nowadays, this message seems more titillating in nature than scary, but that's hardly Stoker's fault.

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Jamie Johnston

at 16:15 on 2009-12-29Hello folks! Been away. Interesting article & discussion. I confess I've slightly skimmed the discussion so forgive me if I say things that have already been mentioned.

The part of the discussion about sex made me think of one of the things that I've found difficult to untangle in my head about the

Twilight

books. At first I thought Meyer's approach to the 'vampirism as metaphor for sex' thing was interesting and quite clever. As Orion has pointed out a couple of comments above this one, having that metaphor made sense in Stoker's time [disclaimer: haven't actually read

Dracula

, except an abridged & simplified children's version when I was under 10] as a way of (first of all) representing sex in fiction at all and (secondly) representing sex as something both attractive and dangerous. Now that sex isn't, by and large, seen as dangerous, the modern vampire story has to find a social setting in which it still makes sense to address sex as something that's dangerous as well as appealing. One option is to use it to address rape-fantasies through 'vampirism as metaphor for non-consensual-or-is-it? sex', but another is Meyer's social setting of teenage sex, which has elements of dangerousness in that it may attract parental and social disapproval, it may be new and unknown, and it may bring the real (because of ignorance or nonchalance on the teenagers' part about safe sex) or imagined (because of ignorance about the biology of conception and transmission of disease) threat of pregnancy and / or STDs. For a lot of young teenagers, especially ones from small and conservative communities and especially for girls, sex must in some ways be quite a scary prospect. I'm sure Meyer isn't by any means the first artist to see and exploit the potential for vampire stories as metaphors for all this, but

Twilight

was the first place I'd encountered it.

What I find hard to get my head around, though, is that she also, especially after the first book, brings sex very much into the story on a non-metaphorical level. Sometimes the metaphor and the literal story are saying the same thing about sex and sometimes they say different things, so it becomes a little confusing. For example, Edward refuses to 'have sex with' (i.e. bite) Bella because it would be selfish and would deprive her of her carefree innocence and would imperil her soul; yet he refuses to (literally) have sex with her for simply because it would be physically dangerous and probably kill her. Both lines of reasoning are disempowering for Bella and both are based on the Nice Guy premise that Bella probably wouldn't really enjoy it; but the metaphorical reasons are moral ones and the literal ones are entirely practical. Is Meyer telling us that teenagers shouldn't have sex because it's metaphorically but not actually wrong and also because it's literally but not metaphorically dangerous?

And then it's further confused by an extra layer of metaphor, because having literal sex with a vampire is, like literal (and irresponsible and ill-informed) teenage human sex, dangerous, but for different reasons: vampire sex is dangerous because in the excitement the vampire is likely to lose self-control and bite you (or, as it becomes in the later books, because the vampire is so super-strong that even if he doesn't bite you the mere exertion of force that's involved in the sex itself is likely to kill you). Which appears in at least some parts of the series to operate as a metaphor for the actual dangers of teenage sex to the extent that sex with Edward is something Bella both desires and fears (thus her mental disposition parallels what many of Meyer's female readers probably feel or felt when contemplating havign sex for the first time), except that the metaphor in this case is an extremely bad and misleading one because, first of all, fear of sex with a vampire is extremely rational and appropriate because having sex with a vampire genuinely is almost certain to kill you whereas fear of sex with a teenage boy is largely irrational and socially constructed because having sex with a teenage boy is almost certain not to kill you and very likely to cause you no ill effects at all; and secondly, the danger from sex with a vampire stems from the vampire's inherent dangerousness and lack of self-control, whereas the danger from sex with a teenage boy, in as much as there is any danger at all, stems from irresponsibility and ignorance on the part of both participants. So on this level vampire sex seems to function as a metaphor for teenage human sex that tells us, quite unhelpfully, that teenage human sex is extremely dangerous because boys are violent and have little self-control. Indeed sex with a vampire here seems to be really a metaphor for sex with a date-rapist, but because it looks like a metaphor for sex in general the reader comes away with an unconscious impression that all men are rapists. Which is, to put it very mildly, not an appropriate assertion to make by sleight-of-hand in a book like this.

And not only do the metaphorical and the literal messages get into conflicts and tangles with one another, but the metaphorical and literal events themselves get caught up together in the plot. In

Breaking dawn

(

spoilers

, as if anyone cares!) Edward does eventually have sex (literally) with Bella, she having tricked / persuaded him to do this while she's still human. The metaphorical danger of the literal sex doesn't materialize: he restrains himself sufficiently that he causes no injury beyond extensive bruising. But then we find that the literal danger of literal sex does result: Bella gets pregnant. Consequently, although the literal sex didn't result in the expected metaphorical event (death), this result is ultimately caused by the literal result of the literal sex (pregnancy), because Bella dies delivering the baby, thus in turn bringing about the metaphorical sex (vampirism) because in order to save her Edward has to make her a vampire, except that this has now stopped being a metaphor for sex and has become something like a metaphor for the immortal soul (since Bella, like a good Mormon, refuses life-saving abortion and therefore dies to be reborn as a happy immortal being).

It's all rather baffling, really.

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Jamie Johnston

at 16:34 on 2009-12-29Oh, also, quick thing about empowerment. I think this is a little more complex than some commenters have thought, in as much as Bella is actually quite a powerful agent of action in the plot a lot of the time but at the same time she's very disempowered in other ways. In

Twilight

itself (

spoliers

of course) she has a lot of will but very little capacity and does indeed have to be rescued again and again. It's perhaps slightly good that the climax results from her choice to escape the protection of the Cullens in order to rescue her mother from the evil vampire, but this is undermined by the fact that it's a stupid idea and she ends up having to be rescued from the evil vampire herself.

But in the later books things improve a bit. In

New moon

a certain amount of rescuing is still required, but she does end up taking a real role in the final bit of the plot, namely 'rescuing' Edward from killing himself because he thinks she's dead. In

Eclipse

she exercises a fairly significant bit of agency in choosing between her two suitors. And of course in

Breaking dawn

she gets ridiculous super-powers and can kick everyone's collective arse. In a sense her ridiculous super-powers are quite traditionally feminine in that they're protective rather than offensive, but there's no implication that they're anything other than utterly crucial to victory.

Still, the series is really a lurve story more than a fantasy adventure, so the most important place for Bella to show agency and empowerment is in her relationship with Edward, and there isn't much of it there. She's pushy about sex and eventually gets what she wants, but one can't really say that she's in control or that she directs events in the relationship.

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http://atropaxbeladona.livejournal.com/

at 22:48 on 2011-02-10I can't comment on the original post, but I read your dumb post about Steve Vander Ark and laughed so hard your cluelessness, I thought you should know. Also, some facts about the case can be found

here

and

here

.

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http://atropaxbeladona.livejournal.com/

at 22:48 on 2011-02-10Oops, it should be AT your cluelesness but my browser eated it. :(

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Dan H

at 23:20 on 2011-02-10Hiya, sorry you can't post on the original article, really not sure what the issue is if you can post on this one (openID sometimes plays funny).

I'm more than willing to believe that the HP Lexicon did in fact contain unattributed material from the Potter books (and looking at the article which I believe I wrote in 2008 I did in fact open with the line "If the guy has genuinely reproduced text from the Potter books without attribution, then he's breaking the law and he needs to correct that") it's just that Rowling seemed to be trying to argue that (a) reference guides were inherently worthless and that (b) a guide to her books could be improved by including information that is not in the books.

I don't really give a crap about the legality of it (that's for courts to decide, although personally I come down on the side of "if it's not her words it's not her copyright" although I suspect that is an oversimplification) what bothered me was what it implied about Rowling's attitude to her texts.

But dude, it was three years ago, I'm personally kind of over it.

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Dan H

at 09:39 on 2011-02-11Further:

Having read the posts you linked in some detail, I'm pretty sure the court's analysis and understanding of copyright law was basically in line with my own as expressed in the original article.

My problem with the lawsuit wasn't that I thought that Rowling was necessarily wrong, just that I thought she was acting for the wrong reasons. Her objection to the lexicon was that it just put information from the books in alphabetical order and that's ... well ... perfectly reasonable as far as I can see.

The key to the case was (as I pointed out several times in the comments on the original article) that copyright protects not ideas but expressions, and the Lexicon used too much of Rowling's original expression (particularly from the two companion books). It had nothing to do with those complaints which I dismissed as ludicrous - that there wasn't enough new information in the book, and that all he'd done was rearrange preexisting information.

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Arthur B

at 11:00 on 2011-02-11It's often the case in law - especially poorly understood fields like IP law - that the reasons your client has to want to take action against someone have nothing to do with the actual legal arguments as to why what that person did was wrong. I imagine her lawyers spent a lot of time encouraging her to stick to the actual harm that was done - the wholesale borrowing of her text - rather than wittering on about irrelevant nonsense that undermined her case, and failing that tried to suppress the urge to roll their eyes at her testimony and did all they could to get her off the stand sharpish before she did more damage.

A lot of the skill in being an attorney, especially in emotive cases like these, is taking a client's irrational concerns, working out whether there's any legal merit to them, and failing that working out whether the opponent has screwed up in some other respect which would allow your client to get satisfaction that way. It's difficult because often the sensible and prudent thing to do is not the thing which would make the client feel happy and vindicated.

On the other side, I would

hope

Vander Ark's lawyers expended at least some effort to say "Look, we might be able to put together a case here, but let's face it - it'll be tenuous. It might be cheaper and easier in the long run to cut your losses and do a rewrite to reduce the amount of stuff you're copy-pasting directly from the books so we can settle this out of court." If a client is intent on making a stand and won't listen to advice to the contrary that's one thing, but it's not cool to let clients walk into the lion's den expecting kittens.

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Gamer_2k4 at 19:36 on 2011-05-18

Meyer wrote a prologue about an imminent death in first person past tense. Say that with me again. IMMINENT death. FIRST person. PAST tense.

So? I'm sure nearly all first-person works are written in past tense; I know for sure that most novels in general are past tense. Present tense just sounds strange in a book, regardless of the application. After all, the fact that you have a book in its entirety means it was (supposedly) compiled together from past events, rather than being something that's being written as you read it.

Now, I'm not trying to say that Meyer has any merit as a writer. That would be silly. However, past tense isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

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Wardog

at 20:13 on 2011-05-18Meyer's prologue, and pedestrian prose style, don't bother me as much as they bother Melissa but nevertheless I do agree that trying to induce a sense of narrative tension by having the narrator fearing her imminent death in the past tense only draws attention to the artificiality of the form because it smacks you in the face with the reality that this is being narrated from *somewhere*. I don't think it's the first person past tense that's the issue: it's the death thang. Also quite a lot of YA novels, The Hunger Games and The Knife of Never Letting Go, are told in present tense first person narration for precisely this reason.

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Melissa G.

at 22:59 on 2011-05-18

nevertheless I do agree that trying to induce a sense of narrative tension by having the narrator fearing her imminent death in the past tense only draws attention to the artificiality of the form because it smacks you in the face with the reality that this is being narrated from *somewhere*.

This basically says it. I wasn't objecting to the past tense. I think past tense should be the default if you don't have a good reason to switch it up. The problem with what Meyer did was that you have a character telling you how they are about to die despite the fact that since the narration is in past tense, we already KNOW the narrator doesn't die thus killing any sense of tension or fear.

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Andy G

at 23:27 on 2011-05-18I remember writing about present tense narration in my first year at uni. There was a sentence in All Quiet on the Western Front that piqued my interest:

We trudge through mud for five days. (paraphrase)

The question is: at what point is he narrating from? If it's the middle of the period, how does he know they will marching for five days. If it's after the period, why doesn't he use past tense?

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying present-tense narration is problematic or illogical or anything. I just think it's an interesting contrast to the past-tense first-person-about-to-die narration.

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http://ruderetum.blogspot.com/

at 08:42 on 2011-05-19It seems that if one wants tension in a past tense, using first persion might not be the way to go. Rather it is more effective if it is some version of the apersonal narrative voice.

Though that might not be as immersive. This isn't true in my personal experience, I often get annoyed with first person present tense even if it works on occasion.

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Wardog

at 10:33 on 2011-05-19Yes, I think you're right. I think the thing is you can't have it both ways. There's nothing inherently "wrong" about first person past tense narration telling you the protagonist presently fears for her death but you can't also expect the reader to get all wound up about it.

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Andy G

at 12:25 on 2011-05-19I've just remembered something that the Kick-Ass voiceover narrator says:

"And if you're reassuring yourself that I'm going to make it through this since I'm talking to you now, quit being such a smart-ass! Hell dude, you never seen "Sin City"? "Sunset Boulevard"? "American Beauty"?

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Dan H

at 23:02 on 2011-05-19I have heard that /Sunset Boulevard/ originally opened with the narrator actually checking himself into a morgue.

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Shim

at 23:22 on 2011-05-19

"We trudge through mud for five days." (paraphrase) The question is: at what point is he narrating from? If it's the middle of the period, how does he know they will marching for five days. If it's after the period, why doesn't he use past tense?

Well, I'd say not from any point, but the whole period. Or if you insist on a fixed point, continuously at points during the five days that are handily merged for the reader's convenience. But I prefer the first.

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Wardog

at 23:31 on 2011-05-19Also, and sorry to keep going on about this because I do absolutely see your point Andy, none of those texts are trying to make you feel anxious about whether or not the protagonist dies.

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Dan H

at 23:38 on 2011-05-19To be fair to Stephanie Meyer, you can make the case that the flash-forward in Twilight *also* isn't trying to make you feel anxious about whether or not the protagonist dies, rather it's trying to make you feel curious about how this seemingly normal girl will find herself at risk of death (spoiler: the guy she likes turns out to be a vampire).

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Wardog

at 23:44 on 2011-05-19Point taken. I am pwned.

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Melissa G.

at 00:35 on 2011-05-20

To be fair to Stephanie Meyer, you can make the case that the flash-forward in Twilight *also* isn't trying to make you feel anxious about whether or not the protagonist dies, rather it's trying to make you feel curious about how this seemingly normal girl will find herself at risk of death (spoiler: the guy she likes turns out to be a vampire).

The point remains that it didn't make me feel *anything* because the prose was flat, explanatory, bland, and horribly horribly boring. It inspired no feeling whatsoever. The first person narrator was facing her death and she was waxing boring about trivial details. The story could have just started with the first chapter, and the audience wouldn't have lost anything. It wasn't just the first person past tense fail of making the audience nervous or anxious. The passage was just poor and served no purpose and should have been cut completely. At least in Kick-Ass even though I wasn't thinking the kid would die, I was still nervous and freaked out for him because that movie inspired thoughts and feelings and connection to the main character and who he was and how he felt. Twilight does NONE of this with it's awkwardly phrased, thesaurus syndrome purple prose.

*pants* Wow, ranty. Sorry....

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http://ruderetum.blogspot.com/

at 11:36 on 2011-05-20It comes to mind that in first person past tense, the result of the situation might not be death, but it could be something traumatic or bad altogether. Examples: Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy, Mika Waltari's The Egyptian.

This is not a defense of Waltari, I was just thinking how it could work as generating tension. Arguably this would apply to All Quiet on the Western Front, as even if we might not worry for the narrator, everyone knows its going to get bad. I don't recall whether the whole novel was in first person past tense though, rather than just the quote Andy G posted.

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http://ruderetum.blogspot.com/

at 11:49 on 2011-05-20I mean defense of Meyer. Drat.

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Melissa G.

at 17:34 on 2011-05-20

This is not a defense of Waltari, I was just thinking how it could work as generating tension.

I think it could work. If the narrative managed to invoke anxiety or fear or nerves for the character, that would be a successful passage despite the fact that the audience knows she won't die. Also, it's hard for the prologue to inspire anything in the reader because we don't know Bella yet, and we have yet to care about her. So it'd be more difficult to pull off in the first book then it would in the second or third where the character and our feelings toward them is already established. In any case, it would take a better writer than Meyer to pull it off.

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Andy G

at 11:31 on 2011-05-23"I don't recall whether the whole novel was in first person past tense though, rather than just the quote Andy G posted."

Just FYI, it was :)

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Andy G

at 11:31 on 2011-05-23Apart from the very, very end.

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Robinson L

at 22:30 on 2011-06-06More necroing. I'm not sure if this is bringing a new perspective on the above discussion of tension in first person narration, or reiterating a point someone else has already made; in first person, past-tense narration, I think when the protagonist is in danger, the tension comes more from how they'll get out of it, rather than whether they will (similarly in a great deal of third person narratives).

Brandon Sanderson hung a pretty funny lampshade on this point in the second book of his

Alcatraz

series, where the first person narrator encourages the reader to ignore the mortal danger he was in at the end of the previous chapter for a moment because he's narrating in the past tense, so he obviously survived somehow.

But anyway, this is all just a thinly disguised excuse to provide an update on my

earlier promise

to deliver an article on the subject of Charlaine Harris' Sookie Stackhouse/Southern Vampire series. I had one mostly worked out, then I read

Pyrofennec's review of All Together Dead

and I had to rethink my whole take on the series. So no articles any time soon.

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Wardog

at 16:46 on 2011-06-07Ye Gods, that's a lot of fail. I read about halfway through the first one, tbh, but the banal prose style sent me to sleep. I will confess to a secret filthy love of the TV series - even though it's, y'know, not without problems. Tara being one of them. I quite *like* Tara but I've never seen so many shitty things happen to one person in my entire life.

The line I particularly liked in there, and by 'liked' I mean made me cringe in an amusing fashion, was "racial blend." That, to me, sounds like a protein shake.

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Robinson L

at 00:00 on 2011-06-09I actually quite like the book series, for various reasons, but I obviously need to start thinking about it more critically.

I also enjoy

True Blood

, though as you say, it's got issues too. Despite the problems surrounding her character, Tara's actually my favorite in the tv show for the sheer awesomeness of her intro in episode one.

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TheMerryMustelid

at 15:41 on 2012-04-21It's probably been said before, but the only rational explanation that I can think of for the Twilight series being the success it was (even before the movies came out) was that desparate, coming-of-age Harry Potter fans needed something to replace their fantasy fix, and sadly Twilight was the wrong young adult series to come out at the right time.

Now that they're full grown adults, hopefully they're reading Game of Thrones to remind them what good fantasy writing is.

I enjoyed the Harry Potter series myself *ducks* but happily went on to Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials series which saved me from Twihard Disease.

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http://fishinginthemud.livejournal.com/

at 16:54 on 2012-04-21I can just about understand the appeal of

Twilight

to a teenager. Bella's life sucks exactly the way your life sucks. You have to do the dishes while your brothers sit on the couch watching tv and laughing at you for being a girl. You get in trouble for swearing when they don't. You're not allowed to play and have fun and have dreams and ambitions while they are. Boys at school are creepy douchebags to you, and your boyfriend is a total controlling asshole.

It might be nice to have that turned into something that's kind of not so bad, and affirms that you actually are okay, even kind of awesome, and boys treat you like crap because they can't handle your awesomeness, and anyway you wouldn't want them to be nice to you, because then they'd be spineless pussies. (How I hate that word.) Your dad makes you do the housework not because you're a girl and that's all you're good for, but because he loves you and cares about you and you have your role in life just as he has his. Your boyfriend wants to control you and protect you and make decisions for you because that's his role, just as it's your role to make him happy in exactly the way he chooses. Really, it's not so bad, and you don't have to feel so bad about it.

I think my heart just cracked a little.

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TheMerryMustelid

at 17:05 on 2012-04-22

I can just about understand the appeal of Twilight to a teenager...Boys at school are creepy douchebags to you, and your boyfriend is a total controlling asshole.

I see your point FITM, which is why I'm ever-so-glad I spent my formative years in an all-girls catholic highschool. As much as we usually make fun of such establishments, I for one felt much more prepared for the added social pressures of dating & such when I entered college. Highschool was hard enough just keeping on top of grades without worrying about what to wear every damn day.

#Ferretbrain #Twilight #Melissa G #Paranormal Romance #Young Adult