#like... Loki attempted to destroy jotunheim but he was also having identity issues and Asgard’s into genocide | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

aurorawest · 4 years

Note

In the MCU, does Odin really love Loki? His ‘I love you my sons’ in Ragnarok was extremely sincere. And yet it’s undeniable that Loki’s emotional and possibly mental issues were all Odin’s fault. Plus any guy who tells their own son “No” while the son is pleading for love while dangling over an abyss, and then “Your birthright was to DIE!” qualifies as a cold and heartless jerk without question. So, what gives?

Oh boy. This is a big question. I rambled a lot again so more under the cut.

So, first, yes. I do think Odin sincerely loves Loki in the MCU. I don’t think Odin at any point regards Loki as anything less than fully his son. You point out the “I love you, my sons,” line from Ragnarok, but we actually see this several times.

Loki: Am I cursed?Odin: No.Loki: What am I?Odin: You are my son.(Thor)

You are my son. I wanted only to protect you from the truth.(Thor)

Loki: So why did he lie?Frigga: He kept the truth from you so you would never feel different. You are our son, Loki, and we your family.(Thor)

Ah, there’s my other son. You. Your lawless nature, the storms within you, you inherited from me. You are my son.(Thor: Ragnarok, alternate NYC scene)

(kind of an interesting side note, you can almost hear him emphasize my son)

On the other hand…yeah. Odin isn’t a great father. I don’t really want to defend Odin, but I do sometimes think there’s a bit of a…simplistic reading of his actions? I know we as Loki fans are primed to see everything from Loki’s point of view, so things are done to Loki. We understand why Loki does the bad things he does because we sympathize with him. But Odin is also a character who has reasons for being the way he is.

I think the main problem with Odin’s parenting skills is that he’s not just a dad. He’s the king of Asgard. He’s the Allfather. He’s really old and really powerful. He was never going to be a normal father (this is why comparisons between him and Howard Stark don’t sit quite right with me, incidentally). There’s really no point at which he can simply be a father to Loki and Thor. Frigga has more freedom to parent as nothing but a parent, but like…Loki and Thor were never going to have normal upbringings.

Another issue is that this family has no idea how to communicate. Like honestly. Odin and Thor do not understand how to talk to Loki and Loki doesn’t know how to talk to Thor and Odin. They hear the words the other is saying, but they don’t hear the actual meaning behind those words. And Loki, in particular, probably makes it difficult to talk to him. He’s definitely at his most open in Thor, but you can still see the protective shell he keeps around himself. The scene in the weapons vault is a perfect example of this. Loki’s entire identity is crumbling around him. He’s not Odin and Frigga’s son, he’s not Thor’s brother. He’s not even Asgardian. He’s a Jotun, the people whom he’s spent his entire life hearing are monsters. This pain is absolutely radiating off him. But what Odin hears are sincere questions that he can give a logical answer to. “Who am I?” “Why did you take me?” “So I am no more than another stolen relic?” Loki doesn’t need logical answers. He’s just lost everything. He needs a father and Odin has never been able to be that in the way that Loki needs.

Onto your specific points. Dangling off the Bifrost in Thor! When Loki says:

I could have done it, father! I could have done it! For you! For all of us!

We may see that as pleading for love (personally I don’t think it’s love so much as acceptance, but YMMV), but I think Odin takes this pretty much at face value. His “No, Loki,” isn’t, no, I don’t love or accept you, it’s no, you didn’t do this for me or for all of us. It’s pretty clear that he doesn’t expect Loki to freaking let go and die. Loki isn’t in any physical danger there; he can easily be pulled to safety. This is classic Loki and Odin talking past each other.

I wish I could make gifs because I would gif both Odin’s reaction to Loki letting go and his final scene in Thor. We get this exchange:

Odin: You’ll be a wise king.Thor: There will never be a wiser king than you. Or a better father.

And then we get a full ten seconds of silence while Odin looks down. I take this very much to be Odin doubting and probably outright disagreeing with this.

“Your birthright was to die!” Yeah that sucked. This whole scene sucks for the Odin & Loki familial relationship. This may be crossing over into head canon territory, but the way I see Thor and Odin (who Thor would have got it from) is that they’ll say whatever comes into their head. They’re mad at you? You’re going to know it. Do they literally mean the crappy stuff they’re saying? Probably not. I don’t think Odin wants Loki dead; I’m not even quite sure that he’s telling the truth about Frigga being the only reason that Loki isn’t being executed. Unfortunately Loki is clearly the opposite. Loki will remember every bad thing you ever said to him and he’ll internalize it and it will eat away at him. This is Thor’s, “So you take the world I love in recompense for your imagined slights.” They’re not imagined to Loki. His family, the people he loves, have hurt him deeply, and they don’t seem to get it or care.

I would also say that from Odin’s point of view, Loki is being such a little shit here. He’s not showing the tiniest bit of remorse for A) attempting to destroy Jotunheim or B) running wild on Earth and letting an alien army invade. I think Odin is so cruel and angry here because he loves Loki, because he sees Loki as his son. He’s disappointed and he shows it in pretty much the worst possible way…which we know is what he does, because we already saw him do it to Thor after the Jotunheim debacle in Thor.

If you think about it, Loki actually gets off pretty easy. At least he got to stay on Asgard instead of being banished like Hela and Thor! No but seriously, there’s a really messed up family dynamic going on with the House of Odin, but at the end of the day I do think Odin loves Loki. Love alone doesn’t solve problems, though.

Anyway, I wouldn’t have Loki any other way, his family issues make him a delightful mess to think and write about.

#anon #loki meta #odin #thor

62 notes · View notes

magicmastered · 5 years

Text

What Universe does Thor: Ragnarok Take Place In? Part One

Let’s be clear. If you like Thor: Ragnarok, or don’t want to see criticism of it, I suggest that you: a) don’t read this, b) filter your tags, c) block me, or d) some combination of the above. Now that we have that out of the way....

A cinematic universe (like the MCU) is a set of movies that all take place in the same fictional universe and share continuity with each other. This means that they share characters, settings, and timelines with other movies in that cinematic universe. To give a recurring character in a cinematic universe contradictory timelines and/or personality traits is to violate the entire point of having a cinematic universe.

Thor: Ragnarok is labeled and marketed as an MCU film. Certainly it shares some settings with other MCU movies, and some characters have the same names and faces. However, that’s as far as it goes. Several characters that T:R shares with other MCU films have noticeably altered personalities, inexplicable within the fictional universe. Two even have different and contradictory backstories. Continuity is destroyed.

Allow me to explain.

I’ll start with the backstories. Thor and Loki’s specifically, beginning from the start of the movies.

According to the interviews and commentary from Thor (2011) and a book about the movie (I believe it’s called Thor: Heroes and Villains), Loki has always tried to be a good son and brother to Odin and Thor respectively. He usually talks Thor out of bad situations. Loki got a rough deal compared to Thor, who didn’t know what ‘no’ meant. As shown in the movie and deleted scenes, criminal activity is something new to him (“Loki’s always been one for mischief, but this is something else entirely”). He prefers to negotiate rather than fight (he talked to Laufey before Thor could make things violent, and would’ve gotten everyone out safely if not for Thor’s temper and bloodlust), and though he’s a skilled fighter, he doesn’t enjoy it. Loki looks out for Thor and co. (he saves Fandral and Sif during the Jotunheim fight, and he references a battle where he got them all to safety by hiding them). He thinks ahead to make sure things work out safely (he tells a guard to tell Odin that they were going to Jotunheim). As a child, he was quiet, curious, and insecure. Odin raised him and Thor to believe that both of them had a chance for the throne, but only one of them would get it—implicitly, whichever of them was ‘worthier’.

The next part of the timeline review will focus more on Loki, considering that it’s more relevant to the topic. I’ll keep motives listed with actions where they fit, seeing as they’re a major issue (as I’ll expand upon later).

(I’m leaving out details of the interrupted coronation because I plan to write a meta on the subject at a later date.) The Jotuns were let into the weapons vault to interrupt Thor’s coronation; his reaction was meant to show (as it did) whether or not he was ready to rule. Loki, when he told the guard to fetch Odin, had no idea that Thor would get banished; he looked shocked and told Sif and the Warriors Three as much.

Upon receiving a major hint that he’s a Jotun, a race Odin raised him to hate and fear, Loki confronts Odin about it in the weapons’ vault. Odin falls into the Odinsleep. Frigga gives Loki the throne, since he’s next in line (this is how succession works, for those who don’t know—king, crown prince, any younger princes). Loki, having had his identity, already mangled self-worth, and entire life shaken to the core, decides to use this power to prove to Odin that he’s a worthy son. This means he needs Thor out of the way, so he tells Thor that Odin’s dead and his banishment is permanent to ensure that he doesn’t try to return. It means he needs to control everything happening on Asgard to make sure whatever else he does goes as planned, so he orders Heimdall to let no one through the Bifrost and tells Sif and the W3 to stay put. It also means he has to do something drastic that Odin can’t not notice. Maybe something to do with ending the war that Odin was so angry about. So Loki goes to Jotunheim and invites Laufey to come to Asgard with a few guards to ‘kill Odin’, intending to kill the Jotun king—his blood father—to save Odin’s life. The ‘assassination attempt’ will provide him with the solid reason he needs to erase any doubt that he’s really Asgardian, and to end the war as Odin’s family has been venerated for ending wars for the last couple generations. Genocide. He can’t be a Jotun if there aren’t any Jotuns left.

(Side note: I realize that genocide is wrong. That’s not the point. The point is that Loki doesn’t, since everyone he’s been taught to look up to has either done it or attempted it; it’s literally part of the culture he grew up in. I’m not excusing him for it, I’m explaining him.)

But then Heimdall, Sif, and the W3 commit treason. Now he’s got problems. He takes care of Heimdall himself (notably Heimdall struck first), but Sif and the W3 are on Earth already, where Thor is. They tell Thor that Loki’s betrayed them. Thor’s shocked; it’s unlike Loki. Loki panics and sends the Destroyer to stop them before they can bring Thor back. Thor assumes that the Destroyer’s there for him. Loki, now angry as well, has the Destroyer backhand him in frustration (it’s arguable whether or not he meant the blow to be deadly). Well, he’s probably kept them on Earth for now, but he has to hurry things up. He brings Laufey over and kills him just as he’s about to kill Odin. But then Thor shows up and he’s angry. Loki blasts Thor through a wall to buy himself from time and initiates genocide-by-Bifrost. Thor comes back and tries to stop him, despite the fact that he was trying to get the same result three days earlier. Loki, visibly breaking down, can’t stop now—he’s desperate, he’s rapidly lost his mind, and his brother is trying to stop him from doing the one thing he thinks will finally make Odin acknowledge him. So he fights Thor. Thor eventually hits the Bifrost hard enough to break it. Odin wakes up and catches them both before they hit the black-hole-looking thing the Bifrost made. Loki pleads for his approval; Odin rejects him. Loki gives up and commits suicide.

Unfortunately for him, he has absurdly terrible luck, so he not only survives falling into the black hole-looking thing, but falls through who-knows-how much space after it and proceeds to land where Thanos finds him. Since he shows up with what looks like burn marks in a deleted scene, appears in his next movie with visible signs of heatstroke, and the interview quotes describing his experience go like...

“...it was like the worst place imaginable...”

“[he had]...several brushes with death...”

“...was like being captured in a terrorist cell...”

“Anything that would’ve happened to a runaway child who ran into the wrong people, happened to him.” (or something like this. I don’t remember the exact quote, but it’s to this general effect.)

“Harrowing, and scarring for life...”

...he has a really bad time. Considering that Thanos has a thing for torture (check out GOTG 1 and 2 and Infinity War), it’s pretty safe to assume that’s what happened. It certainly explains how Loki goes from wanting to die to claiming to want to rule Earth. And he’s in for worse if he doesn’t deliver up the Tesseract (“You think you know pain? He will make you long for something as sweet as pain”). Hence, Avengers (2012).

Odin becomes relevant for a moment here. Fast-forward to Loki’s trial. Odin condemns Loki far more harshly than he did Thor for almost the same crimes.

Fast-forward to the Second Battle of Svartalfheim in Thor: The Dark World. Kursed’s beating Thor into the ground. Loki’s just finished off the other Dark Elves who were still there. He sees that Thor’s in trouble, grabs a Dark Elf blade, and stabs Kursed all the way through the back and chest with it. (I’m not sure if he grabbed the implosion weapon from another Dark Elf or if it was just hanging on Kursed’s belt.) Kursed turns around and impales him (note the solid body) on the end of the blade. Loki activates the implosion device, when he can’t know that Kursed will toss him away before it goes off. Thor cradles his (solid!) body, and Loki seemingly dies.

Later, Loki heals to some degree. What now? If he goes back to Asgard with Thor, Odin will either have him executed or throw him back in solitary confinement for the rest of his life. Odin will punish Thor and co. severely as well. If Loki doesn’t go back to Asgard at all, he could run into Thanos. That means he has to go back to Asgard, but he also needs Odin out of the way. So he returns to Asgard in the form of a guard and overpowers Odin. Thor thinks he’s dead. If he lets Thor spread the word, Thanos will stop looking for him. Thor’s handled his death before. He allows Thor to keep thinking that he died honorably.

Now. Thor: Ragnarok.

According to Thor: Ragnarok, Loki’s been trying to kill Thor for his entire life. He’s been stabbing Thor for no reason since he was eight. Thor patiently puts up with this. Odin does nothing about it. Loki betrays Thor constantly. Loki completely faked his death. The only reason Loki’s ever had for doing things is that he’s a trickster and can’t help himself.

What?!

How can Loki have tried to kill Thor for his whole life when he’s always tried to be a good son and brother?

How can Loki stab Thor for no reason while being the quiet, reasonable one who doesn’t like fighting?

How could Thor patiently put up with Loki’s assaults when he’s always been hotheaded and violent?

How could Odin ignore Loki stabbing Thor all the time when he favors Thor and doesn’t let Loki get away with anything?

How could Loki betray Thor constantly when his betrayal in Thor (2011) clearly comes as a massive shock to Thor?

How could Loki have completely faked his death when the solidity of the body that Kursed grabbed and that Thor held make it impossible for the death to have been an illusion?

How could his only reason for doing things be that he’s “a trickster” and “can’t help himself” when his reasons, as stated above, range from wanting to prove himself to Odin (killing Laufey; attempted genocide on Jotunheim), keeping Thor out of the way (lying about Odin’s death), avoiding torture (Avengers (2012)), utter desolation (suicide attempt), delivering punishment for treason (freezing Heimdall, sending the Destroyer), and protecting himself and Thor and co. (taking out Odin and keeping his survival secret)?

Both statements in each set cannot simultaneously be true.

Thor: Ragnarok contradicts the prior MCU. There is no continuity.

With no continuity, there can be no cinematic universe.

@lucianalight? You said you were interested?

#anti ragnarok #mcu loki #loki meta #marvel #mcu thor #mcu odin #loki in avengers #whew!#I’ve been working on this for a few days #long post #this is my fifth time trying to get this all down #what universe does ragnarok take place in?#my post #my posts

192 notes · View notes

worstloki · 3 years

Note

please read the article 'How White Fandom is Colonizing "Character-Coding"' by Shafira Jordan and quit while you're ahead

Okay, so I read it and see the problem, and I’ll try to address all their points in order because I don’t wholly agree with the article. I know it’s a lot to read so I’ve put tldr; sections at the end of each :)

Misusing the Term Reinforces Negative Stereotypes for Marginalized People

The article essentially argues that labeling characters which are villainous as POC-coded is bad because they’re not morally pure and doing so "reinforces the idea that people of color are naturally dangerous and not to be trusted.”

Which is fair as you don’t want all the representation to be of ‘bad’ characters, but I also don’t believe all representative characters have to be ‘good’ either as it would be equally racist to divide good/bad in such a way. Not that I would place Loki under ‘bad’ to begin with, but arguing that characters shouldn’t be labelled as POC-coded for reasons unrelated to what’s presented in the narrative or because they did bad things is :/ even if lack of good representation is a prevalent issue in current Western and influenced media.

Ideally there should be a range of representative characters that fall into ‘good’, ‘bad’, and ‘anywhere in-between’ because variety and complexity in character types should, in theory, be treated as common practice (which can only happen with a multitude of representation!).

And a bit unrelated but... within the fictional context of Thor 1, all the Jotnar (sans Loki) are presented to the audience as ‘bad’ by default. They desperately want to get their Casket back to the point of attempting stealing it (from the ‘good’ characters), they fight the heroes and even when the gang and Thor (’good’ characters) are enjoying or going overboard with taking lives it’s inconsequential, Laufey wants to kill the opposing king (who just happens to be a ‘good’ character) and will resort to low-handed methods to do so, etc. The narrative itself is from the frame of reference of the ‘good’ and we only see warriors of Jotunheim though so we understand why it’s like this, because regardless of their race/experiences the narrative carries, even if it most definitely would be seen as racist from our real-life perspectives if the ‘monstrous’ race were presented by actual people of colour, even if it would make sense for the people on on different realms living in different environments to be different from each other, and realistic even for that to be the root of some conflict.

tldr; not using a specific label to prevent negative presentations of the characters seems a bit strange to do when the coding would be based off the text, but with limited representation available I see why it would be done, even if I still believe minority-coding is free game to expand/interpret.

Improperly Labeling a Character as “POC-coded” Suggests the Experiences of All People of Color are the Same

The article argues that labeling Loki as POC-coded “suggests that all people of color have the same experiences, when in reality, people of color come from different places, have different cultures, and have different traditions.” And while it’s true that the term doesn’t go into detail about which particular experiences (and these experiences can vary vastly due to diversity!) the appropriate measure would be to remove the umbrella term POC altogether as people of colour tend to also vary. But that’s also exactly why it’s an all-encompassing general term? It’s a way to denote anyone who isn’t “white” and has the associated cultural privilege that comes with the concept of white supremacy.

And, obviously, in the fictional setting presented, the concept of white supremacy is not prodded at, but cultural supremacy is definitely one that makes recurring appearances, right next to the parts about Asgard being a realm built on imperialism with ongoing colonial practice.

My take on this is that Loki’s narrative features a struggle with identity after finding out he’s of a different race and was being treated differently his entire life and being Jotun was presumably a part of the reasoning even if he didn’t know it. He’s basically treated as of less worth for inherently existing differently. I do believe that racism is a common-enough POC experience, but that while Loki was born with blue skin he passes/appears white which is why I don’t say that Loki is a POC, just that he has been coded/can be interpreted this way.

There’s also the entire thing with Loki trying to fit in and prove he belongs by trying to fit the theory and be The Most Asgardian by committing genocide (which ultimately makes no difference as he’s still not the ‘acceptable’ version of Asgardian), and the denial/rejection of his birth culture in destructively lashing out towards them (which even Thor is confused by because Loki isn’t typically violent), and the fact his self worth plummets and he is passively suicidal upon finding out he’s Jotun (internalized racism? general drop in self-worth after finding out he’s adopted and has been lied to? Bit of both?), but what do I know, I’m sure none of those are, at their base, common experiences or relatable feelings for anyone or decent rep because we see such themes on-screen presented wonderfully in different lights all the time.

tldr; every set of experiences could be different, some types of discrimination could overlap, if you limit an umbrella term to only very specific circumstances then it’s no longer an umbrella term.

Suggesting that White Characters are Meant to be Seen as People of Color Ignores the Actual Characters of Color that are Present in these Stories

I don’t agree with most of this section, but that may just be the way the arguments are put together, which I don’t blame the author for.

“ Implying that Loki is a person of color completely ignores Heimdall and Hogun, the only Black and Asian Asgardians who appear in the movie. ”

Characters such as Hogun and Heimdall which are played by actual people of colour have smaller roles in the films and any prejudice they could face for being POC in-universe isn’t made apparent, while Loki at the very least comes to the realization that something he couldn’t change (race, parentage,) was having him treated differently his whole life and had to come to terms with it. The Vanir/Aesir are also both treated similarly on-screen, and Heimdall having dark skin isn’t plot relevant, whereas Jotnar are treated as lesser consistently and are relevant through the movie (breaking into the vault, Thor and co. attack Jotunheim, Loki’s deal with Laufey, the attempted regicide (and the successful one XD), destroying jotunheim, Loki saying he’s not Thor’s brother,).

I also see including characters as POC-coded as... more representation? In all canon-compliant interpretations of the characters Hogun being Vanir is always explicitly mentioned because it’s a fact that just is, up to the appearance and even the world-building of Vanaheim in some fanworks use particularly East Asian culture as inspiration. I have never come across a Marvel fandom Heimdall interpretation where he’s not Black... but because these characters are more minor/side-characters of course they get less attention!

“ In Loki’s fandom, Heimdall’s name sometimes gets thrown in to suggest that it was he all along who was the real villain due to his “racism” against Loki and the rest of the Jotun. It is, of course, ironic to suggest that somehow the only Black Asgardian to appear in the movie can oppress the privileged white prince. “

I... don’t know where to start with this. But the example of theorizing given in the article wasn’t suggesting Heimdall was bad or trying to explain his actions in Thor 1 by saying he is Black... and just looking at a character’s actions shouldn’t be done less or more critically because of skin tone in my opinion. Heimdall may have been trying to do what was best and protect the realm but if the audience didn’t know that Loki was up to dodgy things then the coding would be switched around because he was trying to spy and committed treason and then tried to kill Loki. People... can hold feelings towards others... regardless of skin... and suspect them... for reasons other than skin... although I do still have questions about whether Heimdall knew Loki was Jotun or not. (Even if I personally don’t think it’d make a difference to how he’d treat Loki?)

Some Loki fans have also suggested that because Jotuns have blue skin that this alone makes him a person of color (even if the audience is only allowed to see Loki in his true Jotun form for mere seconds of screentime). This, again, shows a lack of understanding when it comes to race. It doesn’t matter what skin color the Jotuns have.

Race can differentiate between physical and/or behavioural characteristics!! Not being blue all the time doesn’t make him any less Jotun!! He’s got internalized stuff to work through and is used to being Aesir!! At least 1 parent is Jotun so even if Loki was passing as Aesir he’s probably Jotun!! (I don’t know how magic space genetics work for sure but Loki being Jotun was an entire very important jump-starting point in Thor 1!!). It’s a fantasy text and typically things like having different coloured skin indicates a different race or is sometimes if a species has multiple then is just considered a skin colour. That’s how coding works!! The Jotnar are very specifically the only race we see in the movie with a skin-tone not within the ‘normal’ human range, which alienates them to the audience from the get-go!! They’re an “other” and on the opposite side to the ‘good’ characters.

Both Loki and his birth father, Laufey (Colm Feore), are played by white men, and it is impossible for a white man to successfully play a character of color.

The specification of men here bothers me, but yes, you don’t get ‘white’ people to play characters of colour if it can be avoided. (And it can be avoided.)

This also connects with the previous point made that people of color come from various places. There is nothing specifically about the Jotun that could be traced to any specific person of color, and even if there were, there would be no way for white men to portray them without being disrespectful.

This is where arguments about the definition of coding and how specificity/generalizations and do/don’t come in. I know I’m subjective and lean towards the more rep the better, but while I agree ‘white’ people wouldn’t be able to respectfully play a POC I don’t think that rule should have to carry over into fantasy-based fiction. I know texts reflect on reality and reality can reflect within texts, but if contextually there is racial discrimination and there are similar ideas which resonate with the audience’s own experiences I’d say it’s coded well enough to allow that.

tldr; Thor 1′s narrative revolves mainly around Thor and Loki, of which race is kinda kinda a significant theme in Loki’s part of the story. Not so much explored with less-developed side characters such as Heimdall and Hogun, even though their actors are actual people of colour.

How Much of this is Really Well-Intentioned?

In the fantasy space viking world Heimdall and Hogun don’t face any on-screen prejudice and their appearance is not mentioned (which is nice, for sure! good to have casual rep!) but adding on to the roles they play in the narrative the explicit fantasy-racism in the movie isn't aimed at Asian/Black characters, but towards the Humans -to a lesser extent- and the Jotnar, including Loki, who only just found out he comes under that bracket.

The article mentions how fandom space toxicity often “reaches the actors who portray the characters,“ which is true, and it’s shameful that people have to justify their roles or presences are harassed for the pettiest things like skin tone/cultural background, but I don’t see coding characters as removing the spotlight from interesting characters such as those which are actually POC, rather expressing a demand for more rep, since well-written complex characters which are diverse are often absent/minor enough in the media, and therefore can get easily brushed aside in both canon and fandom spaces.

tldr; It’s obviously not a replacement for actual representation, but, if a character is marginalized and can be interpreted as coded, even if they would only be considered so within the context of the textual landscape, I don’t see why spreading awareness through exploring the coding as a possibility for the character shouldn’t be done, even if the media is being presented by people who are ‘white’ or privileged or may not fall into the categories themselves, as long as it’s done respectfully to those it could explicitly represent.

#please don’t patronize me by asking to quit while i’m ahead #it doesn't help anyone #so anyway i've summarized my opinion on the coding thing here for the many anons whose answers could be answered in this ask alone #i think i covered everything?#the article started out okay but I found it kinda :/ in places even though there were valid concerns #I do believe that in-universe context and creators of the media should be taken into account #and that if marginalized themes can be touched on by non-marginalized groups then... great? fictional texts can help people understand #i do also think that rep being presented should if not on-screen have people working on the product to support and ensure it's done well #the world is cold and harsh and cruel and i just wanted a desi Loki AU but here we are #I've got to try and summarize how I think Thor 1 presents Loki's part of the narrative well with POC-coding there because of fantasy-racism #even if the POC-coding is ignored the themes of racism are far too apparent to ignore #loki spends the entire film being a multi-dimensional character and having an entire downfall fueled by grief and a desire to be loved #I don't think attaching a label to such a character would be a negative thing... but perhaps for casual watchers it'd be a bit :/#apparently not everyone takes into account the 1000+ years of good behavior around that 1 year of betrayal/breakdown/identity crisis/torture #MetaAnalysisForTheWin #MAFTW #ThisPostIsLongerThanMyLifeSpan #TPILTMLS #AgreeToDisagreeOrNot #ATDON #poc-coding #yes i ignored everything not about loki in the article what about it #hmmm I know people are going to disagree with me with what should and shouldn't be allowed #I know some people are okay with it but some don't like the poc-coding thing #and that's fine #completely understandable #makes me uncomfy to talk about fictional space racism in comparison to real life but I do think that lack of rep is why coding is important #for some people coding is all that they get #but also!! @ifihadmypickofwishes suggested the term racial allegory and I do believe that is also suitable here!! so I’ll try using that too #rather than poc-coding even though I still believe it applies

141 notes · View notes