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dream-girls-evil · 4 years

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Ratched: Episode 5 Reactions

Party Planning

The red light stands for DRUGS

Ohh he’s meeting Mildred! On the outside this def looks like a date.

Ooh Mildred changing the game now that she’s got all the leverage.

Poor eclair didn’t deserve that

“This is about the lesbians, isn’t it?” Yes, always.

I almost feel bad for Bucket. Almost.

Oh is she gonna know Mildred put him up to this? Guess not.

Basically throwing herself a promotion party lol but yay a DANCE!!!

Is she planning to have Edmund do something to prove himself insane? Oh yep lol

Omg Mildred no this is too cruel don’t get Bucket’s hopes up 😂😂😂

“You’re a woman again” okay that’s laying it on a little thick

Haha Mildred finally dropping the pretense with Hanover. I love it.

“Trust me” Honestly why tho

Oooh who is this lady? She’s mean but she’s right, the way he’s holding that violin is terrible.

Oh, apparently she’s Ondine Duquette

Or Charlotte Wells? ...I see what’s happening.

Love an inaccurate portrayal of DID (sarcasm)

Mmm does Mildred know Hanover has a thing for her? (I think he does at least, or did) Cuz it’s pretty bold of her to touch his face like that.

Aw she’s on her date with Gwen!

Love how straightforward Gwen is and the communication here!

Oh Gwen was in love with a nurse who was killed in the war? That’s coincidental. And Mildred understands it.

Her companion!!! I’m excited but nervous. People might talk.

Lenore’s Arrival

Lenore and Petunia! They look so out of place here XD poor Louise

“The wallpaper hurts my feelings” I’d be lying if I said I’d never felt that strongly about wallpaper

Can’t believe she just invited Mildred to tea, but this is clearly a woman who’s used to getting what she wants.

Oh nice, she just wants Mildred to take over the job XD unfortunately, I think Mildred has other plans. She needs him, though not indefinitely. She’ll probably kill Hanover anyway once she frees Edmund, tie up loose ends. But there’s no harm in pretending to go along with Lenore’s wishes.

Oooh Lenore just got REAL angry about the money Mildred asked for. Guess they’ll be enemies!

Aw Betsy!!! She’s so nervous and so happy!

Hypnotherapy...this should be interesting

A RED-LETTER DAY FOR BETSY BUCKET

Fffff he’s trying to hypnotize his way out of a date. This is a new one 😂

Aw Dolly. Stop bonding with the bad man. He’s just using you.

HE DOESNT LOVE YOU

Ew I don’t like Mildred being alone with Edmund while he’s naked

Do we really trust him to hurt himself and not, you know, everyone else? Mildred does, apparently. Hope she doesn’t regret it.

Oh Charlotte...

AND THEY MADE HER NOT PRESS CHARGES

If only it really was as easy to get rid of trauma as snapping your fingers

Omg Hanover crying because he helped someone. This guy is so interesting, honestly. He does genuinely want to help people.

OMG LOUISE AND BETSY ARE FRIENDS?! Please tell me they just complain about Mildred all the time.

Okay so Betsy’s a little delusional lmao her retelling of Hanover’s reaction to the gifts is...quite altered

Omg they’re dancing this must have been the most fun scene to shoot on the whole show

“I’ve never seen you look so happy” I ship them

HA I knew they just complained about Mildred together

Lenore is there LENORE IS RIGHT THERE

Ohhh he’s breaking down. Little does he know that Mildred is the one who brought Lenore here.

Ahhh now he’s holed up at the hospital where Mildred is the only one who can reach him.

I think Lenore likes Mildred’s nerve now

The Dance

Mmm why do I feel like Charlotte might end up stealing Edmund’s thunder?

Poor Betsy. Hanover’s off to get drugged up.

Oh, he’s REALLY out of it. Jon Jon Brione is such a great actor.

So much for everyone ignoring Edmund lmao

She’s a PEACH

MMM Betsy’s onto Gwen and Mildred

Aaand Harold is distracted

Omg Dolly looks so pretty!!! Hope Edmund doesn’t kill her

Oh NO they’re planning on running?! I have no idea which plan he’s going to follow. I’m so nervous.

Oh their little clandestine handhold I cri

Betsy you are getting ahead of yourself a little

Omg causing a scene nooo

NOOO BETSY

Damn Hanover came outta nowhere with the rage

And now Gwen and Mildred have left to comfort her and NO ONE IS WATCHING EDMUND

Mildred’s sense of empathy really does strike at the oddest times and in the oddest ways.

Okay Edmund didn’t try anything while they were gone but this is definitely not going to go according to Mildred’s plan.

Noooo Harold!!! No one even got to tell you they’re lesbians 😔

FUCK GWEN NO

Duuude Dolly is excited by this. And I legit can’t tell if Edmund is playing at being freaked out by Gwen or it’s genuine.

Thoughts and Theories

Well, that was a packed episode! I really do feel bad for Betsy Bucket lol, she may hate Mildred and act like a hardass around her, but then she turns into such a sweet and silly woman. I’m kind of living for her friendship with Louise, too, although I know it can mean nothing good for Mildred, who doesn’t realize she’s surrounded on all sides. We haven’t even flashed over to Louise rifling in her room during the dance, yet. I wonder what, if anything, she’ll find. But if she does find something, how will Bucket react? I think her opinions of Mildred might have changed after this incident. Speaking of which, while I get what they’re trying to do by having Mildred go all empathetic and feminist, it feels really out of place to me. I know she didn’t expect Hanover to go off like that, but she hardly likes Bucket, and more than that, humiliating and disempowering her would actually serve Mildred’s purposes. Especially if Bucket quit over it. If the whole point of getting them together was to keep Bucket distracted, then surely getting her out of the hospital altogether would be even better. Perhaps I could believe that she saw the opportunity to get on Bucket’s good side by comforting her if it wasn’t so clearly an emotionally-driven choice, and one she was conflicted about. She chose going after Bucket over watching Edmund. That’s a pretty interesting brand of empathy and overconfidence.

On to Edmund, the whole Bonnie-and-Clyde thing was definitely a surprise, but mostly because I’m like...literally what is the plan here? How long do they think they’ll be able to survive on the run? Edmund himself is hard to get a read on, because we don’t get a whole lot from his perspective, but knowing Murphy, I’d wager that he does genuinely have some attachment to Dolly, if only because he’s lacking a sympathetic female figure in his life. He has Mildred of course, but seems very impatient and displeased with her plan and how she tries to control him. I think this whole escape is probably a combination of that frustration and impulsiveness and how he and Dolly really feed off each other’s romanticized idea of how it will all work out. It’ll be interesting to see where they go from here and whether they turn on each other or not. I really still can’t tell whether Edmund is really upset about Gwen being shot or not, but at this point I’m wondering like, why would he need to pretend? Dolly is clearly exhilarated by the whole thing (also unexpected). Their argument is over whether or not Gwen was “fair game,” which sounds to me like Edmund is similar to Mildred in that he really needs a way to justify his murders, which could be interesting, it’s just not the direction I thought we were gonna go with him. We’ll see, I guess!

#ratched #ratched spoilers #mildred ratched #edmund tolleson #nurse bucket #betsy bucket #lenore osgood #mrs osgood #dr hanover #charlotte wells #all hail the queue of hell

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itsclydebitches · 4 years

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(1/4) As always, great analysis. You bring in some strong points and it's always great to read! You know what frustrates me the most? Now that we HAVE the Summer lore… Qrow’s anger has even less weight. I’m not saying the blow to his personal self-esteem is anything to shrug off, but I felt if Qrow was going to have such an extreme reaction, then something more was going on in his head – the only conclusion I could come to was the effect it had on his family.

(Never worry about length. I’m the biggest chatterbox around :D)

But thank you! I’ll be honest, a huge part of me is relieved that they didn’t go the ‘Summer died on Ozpin’s orders’ route just because the backlash against him is already so heavy. If the characters and fandom react this badly to things legitimately outside of his control (like the gods screwing him over, Salem abusing him, Raven telling lies, Pyrrha making her own choices, etc.) I hate to think what it would be like if they introduced a Legit Bad Choice into the present day narrative. Something way heavier than, ‘I kept information secret from a group who, in a few days, will decide that is actually the best course of action.’ His character never would have had the chance to recover because Summer is a ghost. In the figurative sense. As a dead mother, she exists as the perfect martyr; as a dead character, she exists as the perfect, blank canvas for whatever the fandom chooses to imagine for her. She can do no wrong because she’s not here and therefore she’ll always be above the man who is forced to continue living and, by default, keep making mistakes. The living can’t compete with the dead like that.

(Although, we can admit the opposite as well: the characters and the fandom hate Ozpin so much when he’s presented as no better or worse than the rest of the cast, if they’d given him that Legit Bad Choice in regards to Summer it might not have made a difference. People throw him under the bus whether he’s responsible for things or not, so...).

I’ll say though that you’re right. This severely undermines a lot of the assumptions for why characters, Qrow in particular, are reacting to Ozpin with this degree of coldness. At every turn the narrative undermines the reasons why people are supposedly justified in hating him:

He’s secretly evil! Oh no wait, “The Lost Fable” killed that theory.

He got Pyrrha and Hazel’s sister killed! Oh no wait, we all saw Pyrrha make her own choice. The choice that directly contradicted what Ozpin told her to do. We’re likewise shown that Hazel is delusional with grief and can’t accept that his sister chose a dangerous career.

He drove Qrow’s sister away! Oh no wait, Raven was always a shady character who snuck her way into Beacon, gained Ozpin’s trust, and then (unlike Qrow) betrayed him. Also she abandons her daughter and murders young women for power so... not convinced losing Raven is a downside here.

He cast horrible magic on the Branwens and kept is secret! Oh no wait, it’s not horrible at all. And Qrow kept it secret, not Ozpin.

He told lies and kept other secrets! Yeah. So has the rest of the cast. And they’re now telling the exact same lies and keeping the exact same secrets. That’s an ongoing thing.

Now: He got Summer killed! Oh no wait. He didn’t. No one knows how Summer died.

It’s the biggest disconnect between showing and telling I’ve ever seen. At every turn the story shows us a flawed but ultimately good man, someone who, to be frank, did really well considering the impossible situation he was thrown into. Yet every time more information is revealed, instead of reacting to it appropriately the cast (and fandom) keeps insisting that Ozpin is the Worst Person Ever. He’s a scapegoat, plain and simple. The worst part is that as a human being Ozpin has made mistakes. And as a 1,000 year old abused and tortured human being his sense of his own responsibility has been completely warped. Ozpin has reached a point where he’s so tired and so grief-stricken that he’s no longer able to accurately look at a situation and say, “No. That wasn’t my fault. Not fully, at the very least. I am not responsible for every horrific thing that has ever happened to you.” His abuse at the hands of the gods, Salem, and others around him has resulted in the belief that he is responsible. For everything. So when the likes of someone like Qrow goes, “No one knows how Summer died... but Ozpin could definitely be responsible” he’s not there to speak up for himself (thanks, @missroseyred) and even if he was he doesn’t have the confidence or the mental health required to call out that undeserved blame. That’s why he left. The group said, “You’re the worst thing that ever happened to us” and Ozpin responded with, “You’re right.”

Frankly, idk how the story is going to come back from this. If it even can. Because we’ve been given SO MUCH that shows us how good Ozpin truly is and the characters have flat out twisted or ignored it all. Ozpin himself isn’t in a position to speak up for himself and change minds. No one else wants to. Maybe Oscar will, but he doesn’t have to social power or the confidence to refute such a deeply embedded belief. It really just feels like we’re stuck with a show that has everyone insisting Ozpin is The Worst even while everyone is shown otherwise, providing no justification for that contrast, having the characters embody his beliefs and choices, and then not acknowledging that hypocrisy either. It’s pro-protagonist in the extreme.

So... yeah. “Why are y’all angry again?” It would be great if RWBY would actually force the cast to answer that question and not let them use faulty logic, undeserved blame, or ‘But we’re different’ as answers.

#rwby #rwby volume 7 #rwby volume 7 spoilers #mymetas #long post #jadekitty777

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caughtred90 · 3 years

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Today, well I guess I cut my sister out of my life..... That's not what I set out to do. I guess that's just what ended up happening. I can't really articulate it, but since she wanted to be sure I show my daughter the texts I'll put them down here.

Me:

Hey, I had wanted to wait and have this conversation in person but with (nephew)'s Birthday coming up I have to get it out there. (My daughter) has cried over you a few times. The most recent she sobbed asking why you don't love her as much as she loves you. I’m done with that and at this point, to protect Anna, the only thing I know to do is step away. I would rather her be angry at me then continue to be hurt. I’ve put a lot of time and energy into getting us and our families to be closer. It just hasn’t gone anywhere. If it was just me it wouldn’t matter as much, but my kids don’t deserve it. (My daughter) has adored you since she was born. She’ll adore you for the rest of her life. People that you choose to invest so much time and energy into… trust me you can’t say the same. I’m really not sure if the things you do are intentional, careless or subconscious. I hope one day you figure it out. The girls and I will always love you, but we have to step back.

Her:

I have to say being told that your sister has to" step away from you" doesn't hurt any less than the first time. This message is a completely unexpected blow. I had no idea I was making (my daughter) cry. I have no way to know that and I fact I am upset that no one notified me that this was happening! I in no way would ever want her to think I don't love her. I love you and (my daughter) and (my youngest daughter). You are my family, not an investment. I'll love you no matter what even if I don't feel the love back. I want you to tell me what I have done to cause her so much hurt. I honestly can say I have no idea what I have done to her. I want you to tell me. Because you are not just making this choice for Anna. You are making this choice for (my nephew) and (my niece) and me and (her husband). You are making a choice to step away from us for something I have no idea that I did! And now I will have to hear (my nephew) cry and and hear him ask why he can't go over to your house and see (our rooster).

Me:

I'm sorry to hear it's a blow, but it would probably be worse if it wasn't. I didn't make this decision in a snap. It's been a long hard one that's cost me sleep and tears. (My daughter) has begged and begged and begged for you to include her. Include her in everything, include her in anything. She's done that for years. The last few years I've tried to throw as much as myself into the effort as I can. The effort is almost exclusively one way. I've made excuses for it to (my daughter) but she sees. She sees the camping trips you go on, the parties, and get togethers we weren't invited to. She sees the collection of family posts on that she might just be in one. She sees all of it. Like I said, I've invested as much as I can into having a more normal relationship with you. It just hasn't happened. Recently, I found self harm marks on Anna. I cannot put her emotions on the line. Not for anyone.

Her:

The last time I talked to you I invited the girls over and you said they couldn't. So you are not being involved in my family anymore because for years you have tried and tried but I just don't include (my daughter)?

Me:

After her birthday you didn't make any effort to apologize to her. Even if you thought you were in the right, even if you didn't know she cried, that was hard for even me to explain. I had to come to you. (My daughter) begged me to apologize to you. Even though she didn't think I was wrong. I'm not going to go over all the ways you slighted her. It's not about being wrong or right. I'm stepping away because it's the only thing I know to do right now to spare (my daughter's) feelings.

Her:

So you are stepping away from us because I didn't apologize after her birthday? You took her phone away. I always invite her you always say no I have all of those if you would like. But you seem to have made up your mind. I'll let my kids know that you have decided to step away from us and thought that we didn't deserve answers. At this point I can't put up with you deciding we are unworthy of you all the time. And then what? we can come back when we have proven our worth?

Me:

Instead of finding fault in others, your energy could almost certainly be better spent on self reflection. I've explained what I'm doing and why.

Her:

Your the one finding fault in me not the other way around. you are making the wrong choice I hope you know what you are doing. It is a very childish and selfish choice. My kids will not know you and you do not care because I unintentionally made (my daughter) cry on two occasions. Or by your word for years I love (my daughter) and I hope you show her these messages. How easily you toss us aside like we are nothing. FYI (my cousin) and (my aunt) and (my other cousin) didn't invite you to anything either you are not "stepping back from them" just me as usual (my daughter) loves (my cousin) just as much. I am always the one to try and include you and invite you to things. You always say no.

Me:

Maybe I am all the things you say I am. Idk. I do know I'm doing the best I can in an overwhelming shitty situation. I also know that only one of us is mad.

Her:

I didn't say you were anything and please don't speak for me I am not mad I am very upset that my sister is removing herself from my life. Do you blame me for being upset? I think you are not doing the best in a shitty situation. I think you are making a long term choice over something that could have been handled in a mature way. Not just saying I'm done with you. I would like to know (my daughter) thoughts is she wanting to cast me out? Just me not anyone one else? Or is it you?

Me:

Ok, now I'm going to stop you right there because this has gone far enough. What I'm doing is for the mental wellbeing of my daughter. Which seems to be less important to you than how it makes you feel. I mentioned my distress, (my daughter's) distress, and even her self harming.... All that you've talked about is how you feel and what a selfish and childish decision I've made. If you think that you have no fault, that I'm making an erroneous decision then so be it. Maybe instead of trying to argue over something that the only thing should feel about is concern, you might take that finger and try pointing your way. Ask yourself what you could have done better.

Her:

Ok I'm beating a dead horse. I'm not pointing a finger you are. Your the one who is making this choice so therefore you are pointing the finger. I'm making points because it just doesn't make sense. I had no idea she was so upset every time I see her she never says anything. I'm not a mind reader. And the fact that you are cool with the rest of the family is a little weird to me as well. They don't invite her but they are ok but I am a horrible person you have to separate from? Was I just supposed to roll over and say I'm sorry? I'll do better next time? Perhaps you should do some self reflecting and say when my daughter was so distressed I should have had her or myself let her know what was going on so I at least had a chance to do something. If you are not being my family anymore because you don't think I apologized good enough to (my daughter). Then I guess I have no choice to let it happen but I hope you show her these messages and that I would never have done this to her, (my youngest daughter) or my kids and I won't let her out of my life or (my youngest daughter) ever and definitely not without a fight. I will always fight to have them know me and for them to be in my family.

Me:

My god. I promise I'll show (my daughter), at a time that I'm not worried about her cutting herself when she gets upset. Trust me, I'll be doing plenty self reflection. If it makes you happy I'll do twice as much as I already do every damn day. I hope you do the same. There's so much subconscious trauma and bs that your spraying out in these texts it's scary. It's even scarier that you can't pick up on it.

Her:

Same to you. I hope she gets the help she needs. But don't blame her cutting on me. I didn't know.

Me:

Literally never blamed you, wtf is wrong with you (sister's name)? Seriously now, like dead ass wtf is going on?

Her:

You are stepping away from me tho to protect her from cutting so what am I supposed to think? Ok well have a good life (my name) I'm sorry my family doesn't live up to your expectations. We will do some self reflection and try to do better next time.

Me:

My god (sister's name). I legit am so disappointed in you. I mean.... I don't even know what to say I'm literally floored.

Her:

Yea same I literally am disappointed in you. Who "steps away from their family" I'm floored as well

Me:

You somehow made this all about you. Really, it shouldn't have been about you at all. At least not in the way you made it. It wasn't about someone being right or wrong. Your niece is going through some shit and all you can say is I hope she gets the helps she needs but don't blame me though...... That's.....

Her:

You attack me on Facebook and attack me in person but I'm the bad one I'm the one who makes your daughter upset? Ok please stop texting me. I am so hurt. I have never felt more betrayed by a family Member ever

Me:

Are you delusional?

Her: Are you?

Me: Are you drinking? Like, wtf is going on? You're not even making sense! I've never fucking attacked you ever

Her:

You aren't making sense no I am not

Me:

In fact, I've done nothing but try to be there for you. You posted some shit on Facebook that you knew nothing about and didn't even take the time to Google. In this day and age it is so fucking dangerous to spread false facts. Period. You, a witch, should know the power of your words. Do you want me to apologize for correcting you on Facebook? That's what I did CORRECT you. Not attack you. I'm sorry Truly. Now how in the world have I attacked you in person?

Her:

That's what I am talking about right there my information was false? The way you do it is so rude. I had people private messaging me asking what your problem was. I literally took a class on the false information. Maybe you should self reflect. So you can tell me that I am mean and cold but when I say it to you I'm wrong makes no sense. You didn't correct me you made me look like an idiot for no reason. Un called for. Internet trolls are also a recent concern. Thanks for correction. You have no idea how mean you are. Please stop texting me I am very much done with you thinking I am a bad person and you are not. That I need correcting and self reflection but you know everything. I love (my daughter) very much and I hope you can get her the help she needs to help her not cut when things get turbulent. To communicate and reach out and find supply and love in family.

Me:

My god. Ok, keep your private message friends. I'm the one that's rude, and obviously nothing you posted was wrong. I guess goodbye then (sister's name). Live life well, tell (nephew) and (niece) that when they're old enough we'll be waiting.

Her:

They won't know you why would they go see you? Your a stranger

Me:

And you are a very traumatized and insecure person who is obviously very very hurt. But I'm sure you'll take that as a reflection on your character and therefore an insult instead a like and concerned soul seeing you. I hope you find happiness love and healing. I hope you get all the things you want and need. Goodbye

Her:

No I am not. Quit speaking for me. I'm traumatized by my sister not wanting to apart of my family. goodbye then

Me: ok.

I'm still in shock about the whole thing I guess. It definitely didn't go the way I expected. I don't know what I expected really, but definitely not anger. I think from the beginning I was thrown off by the feeling she was focusing on her. I felt like I was telling her some very serious things about her nieces mental health, but that didn't really... Land? Matter? Idk. I didn't understand most of the things she was saying. Her saying she didn't know my daughter was upset about not being included is impossible. Every time we saw her y daughter would tell her she misses her and wants to be included more. I've pulled my sister aside several times to tell her how important it is to my daughter to be included more. My sister would always promise to do so. Then we would see Instagram posts about "family" camping trips we weren't invited to. Picture murals on her walls of "family" without one pic of us. This has been going on for years. She did offer to take the girls to a park one weekend, but they were at their dad's. I didn't say "no." I just said they couldn't that weekend because of that. Other than that I can't think of one time she's invited us somewhere and I said no. I can recall cancelling plans with my cousin because I didn't have the girls that weekend. I don't know if that's what she's talking about. It's extremely difficult for me to reconcile my sister speaking about one of my children so carelessly.

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occupyvenus · 7 years

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Great post - "about why Jonsa of all ships is so bitterly thought about" and I think your really nailed a lot of the key factors, especially how the San/San people like Sansa, are more likely book readers and can accept the Jonsa ship maturely. There is definitely a pathological hatred of Sansa that drives the fanaticism against her being with Jon. You really captured a lot of the thinking (if you can call it thinking!) on a tv forum I've been following for about a year. People literally (1/2)

will dream up any reason to keep Sansa away from Jon. There is essentially a subculture that allows the Jon/Ary@ ship and the Jon/D@ny ship to coexist. Even kind of support each other. Dany might die and then Arya and Jon will raise the Targcest baby together. Pretty crazy stuff. Anyway thanks for writing so clearly on this topic. (2/2)

First of all … that was supposed to say FOUGHT ABOUT!!! NOT THOUGHT ABOUT!!! WHY JONSA OF ALL SHIPS IS SO BITTERLY FOUGHT ABOUT!!!

I lower my head in shame, while contemplating my bad habit of never proof-reading the stuff I write. But as the previous anon so correctly pointed out my spelling isn’t exactly top-notch. Most of the time it’s honestly p r e t t y bad. If words sound somewhat similar, by stupid brain assumes they’re interchangeable. Seven hells.

Though I think this - Sansa being regarded as a side character or at best, the least important main character - also explains why Jonsa isn’t seen as a possibility by the general fandom, not just the radical antis. People look at the infamous original outline, believing that Sansa never gained any real importance as a character since then, like she was just allowed to tag along with the “real” key five (Arya, Bran, Dany, Jon and Tyrion). She was supposed to marry Joffrey and die at some point and the crazy folks think she’ll not even survive but also get THE MALE LOVE-INTEREST? I suppose, to people who don’t realize (or don’t want to admit) that Sansa was “upgraded” to key-status (GRRM always includes her when talking about the most important characters nowadays), any serious theory that claims she could be Jon’s grand love interest sounds as implausible as if it was … idk, Arianne or Brienne or whoever. Those two are great and all, but Jon Snow is on an entirely different level when it comes to significance to the narrative. Why would he of all people end up with some puny side-character? Shouldn’t that “honor” go to one of the real heroines? Makes sense. It’s not just the people who actively hate on Sansa, but also those who simply don’t care much about her character.

I guess you call this hypothesis “Why Jonsa of all ships is so bitterly FOUGHT about and/or not taken seriously”.

I’m honestly not an expert on what’s going on between the other camps (ie the general attitude between J0nry and J0nerys shippers), but according to my experience these two subgroups (together with the Sansa/P€tyr shippers) make up the majority of devoted jonsa-haters and put forth the most obsessed ones as well. If I remember correctly, a few years back before canon!jonsa gained so much momentum those two groups weren’t getting along nicely either. There was a lot of bickering about who’s more important (Ary@ is grrm’s fav!, D@ny has dragons and all, so shut your piehole!), mixed up with some shipping wank and as far as I can tell (as I said, I have a very limited perspective on this. I don’t really interact with either group), that has gotten a bit better since Sansa entered the stage as another key female character. What do people say? The enemy of my enemy …

I don’t think that shipping is super important to asoiaf, I care about the story first and was pretty indifferent to it before I jumped on board the Jonsa ship, but I do think that we’ll get one “main” romance between two “main” characters. It would simply make sense to me, Grrm was never shy about including romantic love in his works, even if it was never the main focus. Now, this will more likely than not end in tragedy, but since asoiaf can be read as a coming of age story for at least 5 of the key six, and settling down with a spouse and a couple of kids is one common way to end such a story, maybe that will belong to the “sweet” part of the bittersweet ending. Idk, anything’s possible. (Btw, I don’t count Sansa and Tyrion’s marriage as a “romance” for obvious reasons.) If you don’t subscribe to the idiotic assumption that Jon and D@ny are the “real” real main characters and assume that all six are of equal importance … why is shipping either of them (other than the biological siblings, perhaps, that would be a bit weird even by grrm standards), less legit than the other? (Of course, if you do subscribe to this assumption, there probably only exists one “legitimate” pairing in your opinion. In which case, no argument about this could ever be solved until finding a common denominator to this question of principle, so why even bother…)

If one of the male characters can be seen as the “romantic lead” it would be Jon (grrm even sorta confirmed this in his “fake” -lol- medusa interview), simply because Bran is just a kid and Tyrion, well some people will accuse me of ableism, but I don’t get any “romantic lead” vibes from him. Not because he’s a dwarf, because he’s the only “grownup” of the key six. So everyone can keep any accusations to themselves. I also don’t think that Grrm will stride away from hetero-love, to be honest. HE COULD. But I don’t think he will. That leaves us with the three possibilities mentioned above: Jon and one of the leading ladies. I think it’s rather inevitable that that will happen.

But when it comes to the ladies … things simply aren’t as clear. They’re all similar of age, neither of them is closely related to Jon (at least, not THAT closely related), they could all work. I obviously don’t like J0nerys, but I can totally understand why so many people believe in it. I would maybe even ship J0nrya a bit, if it wasn’t almost impossible to find shippers who don’t hate on Sansa/Jonsa. And I would never call either of those groups “delusional” because it basically comes down to personal preference and a couple of other factors, most notably how you judge the future projective of these three characters.

I also hate the assumption that J0nerys is the only pairing with solid foreshadowing in the books. I read the books a few times, all j0nerys meta I could find, plenty of J0nrya ones and, well, I don’t have to talk about all the jonsa-metas I’ve consumed xD. Trying to remain as unbiased as possible, there’s an almost equal amount of foreshadowing for all of them. I simply came to the conclusion that Sansa is the most likely candidate because a) I’m pretty sure D@ny will go dark and there will be a targbowl of sorts. She could just as easily be a love interest, as she could be an adversary. b) The age-gap between Ary@ and Jon is a bit too big for my liking. Especially at their current canon age. Also I love them siblings so much. And c) Sansa’s upgrade and the drastic change in her narrative must have a reason. Martin liking the idea of tormented pseudo-incest, and the reveal of Jon’s parentage making such a relationship “proper” but deciding to emphasize the brotherly bond between Jon and Ary@ and “using” Sansa’s character as the love interest instead simply makes sense to me.

But I only came to this conclusion because I consider Sansa to be of equal importance. It’s more or less a precondition of even consider Jonsa, even more so to ship it in a canon kind of way.

Now, to put an end to this little rant and get back to the original topic, D@ny and Ary@ stans regularly accuse Sansa of “stealing their narrative” or at least “Sansa-stans want her to have it all”, so it’s no surprise that they a) don’t want her to be key player and b) subsequently don’t want her / can’t see her ending up with Jon. There are a few very great posts out there dealing with the issue why Sansa is hated so much, but I think it comes down to (to get off topic one more time, because it’s my speciality)

Misogyny. Feminine characters always attract a lot of unwarranted hate (female characters and general, but at least on tumblr … one can undeniably see a certain trend), more so the ones who don’t take off their clothes. There’s this really nice post going around that as a female character you either have to a) be a sex object or b) act like a man. I would link to it if only I could find it. I’m not going to add much to this, it has been talked about many times.

You can’t live vicariously through her. Sansa’s narrative often is … very frustrating. Nobody “wants to be Sansa”. People want to be the rebellious, fighting girl who doesn’t take any shit, they want to be the mother of dragons who goes around the world freeing slaves, they want to be Jon kicking some White Walker ass, they want to be the future three-eyed-raven (though Bran is seriously underappreciated by the fandom), they want to be a smart ass know it all, like Tyrion. They don’t want to be the girl stuck in situations she has almost no means of escaping. The sad truth to this is though, most people, if they found themselves in the same situation, “would be Sansa”. Most people aren’t active heros who fight against the unjust system all the time, most people aren’t geniuses, or brave enough to put themselves in harm’s way for the sake of other all the time. I actually fell in love with Sansa’s character because of that. (Though I have to admit myself, I was rather indifferent to her character for partially those exact reasons myself). It’s refreshing and a honest take on human nature to have a heroine who mostly has to resort to endurance and passive resistance. Mostly, not always. I don’t subscribe to “Sansa is weak and useless” weekly. Don’t get me wrong. She’s awesome and badass in her right, it’s just a bit harder to notice and appreciate. In this aspect she’s probably the most “realistic” character of the key six and people don’t like to read the truth about themselves. They wanna read about what they want to and could be.

People are projecting. HARD. I spent a lot of time wondering why Sansa gets so much shit for her “evil deeds and traits”, in a series where people kill other people, shove children out of windows, burn people alive, rape a slave prostitute, and so on and so forth. And you know what? It’s easier to “forgive” those things because they are so absolutely horrendous. All these things are so far removed from our everyday reality (for most people at least), that it severs our emotional connection to it. Don’t get me wrong, we can still judge their behaviour, we can still emphasize with the victims, but we have no personal experience to connect to. But Sansa’s “villainous characteristics” (especially those of s1/agot)? An ignorant, privileged white girl who is mean to her little sister for being different, is caught up in some naive classicism, does stupid shit because she has a crush on some asshole everyone else could sniff out a mile away and always has to be so fucking perfect all the time. NOW THAT IS A “BAD GUY” WE KNOW! That’s a “villain” we all encountered in real life. To put this in different terms: I’ve never been pushed out a window for witnessing a incestous relationship between two people of high social standing (nor has anyone close to me), but have I felt victimized by my sister being the pretty, perfect girl, while I was the loud, unruly, unattractive tomboy? Yeeeeeeeeeeees. Have I ever actually lived through the experience of my elder sister getting nicer gifts than me, because “I would just break them”? Yeeeeeeeeeeeesss again. I grew out of it after elementary school, of course (okay, to be completely honest here, I might have still struggled with it during puberty, but thank god that’s also behind me). This also works the other way around: I have never been in the situation of “having” to push a kid out of a window, because it witnessed my incestous relationship and I, my sister-lover and our three children would lose their heads if he told anyone. I’ve never had slave master nail 163 children to crosses to piss me off. Idk, man. I have no idea what I would do. I never had to deal with shit like this. Who am I to judge? But then people look at the “mean” things Sansa did and go I WOULD NEVER EVER EVER. (though they probably did at some point in their life).

Since this is tumblr, I have to note something: I don’t think this applies to everyone who dislikes Jonsa. I don’t think that everyone who dislikes Jonsa also dislikes Sansa. I’m not even saying that everyone dislikes Sansa for the reasons listed above. Before you accuse me of any of this, make sure you didn’t fall victim to a logical fallacy. I had enough of those lately. Those are just a few of my personal observations and conclusions, that I think, apply to quite a few people. If your reasonings and opinions are completely different, great, I’m not arguing, just don’t give me any shit about it.

So to draw some final conclusion for this long ass post: Jonsa of all ships is so bitterly fought about and/or not taken seriously, because a) Sansa attracts a lot of hate for several reasons, b) Sansa is considered to be too unimportant to be the “romantic lead” kind of main character grand love interest.

Shipping Jonsa is not “delusional” if you a) consider all three lead ladies to be of equal significance and b) don’t dislike Sansa. (Though since this is Tumblr, I might point it out one more time: This does not mean that anyone this applies to also ships Jonsa. This does not mean that this doesn’t also apply to people who don’t ship Jonsa. This does not mean that only people who stan Sansa hard ship Jonsa - I myself actually started shipping it because I staned Jon so much and I need my baby to be happy. Some people who fulfill both a) and b) might still believe that Jonsa shipper are “delusional” simply because it’s the common narrative of a big portion of the fandom.)

… Now that I think about this, the entire question could have been answered with the last paragraph alone, but you know how we do, go big or go home.

#caitnan #jonsa #anti-jonerys #shipping of got #meta #kind of #sansa stark #sansa hate #long post #really long post

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zalrb · 7 years

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Damon, TAKE STEALTH LESSONS {2x04 Review}

1. I’m sorry, we really need to talk about how this twenty year old man is this jealous over his 17 year old brother, like get over yourself, Damon and grow up, be an older brother. Stefan is SEVENTEEN.

2. In this dream, Elena says that it’s Damon’s turn at the pool table but then Elena is the one who’s playing while Damon is like teaching her how to play even though Elena can play pool but I guess Katherine wouldn’t know about the last part.

3. Also I’m laughing because when would Damon and Elena actually do anything like play pool in their actual relationship.

4. Tyler is actually being quite calm considering he knows werewolves exist now.

5. Katherine actually annoyed me in this episode, mostly when she’s trying to be coy about werewolves, something about Nina’s enunciations and she exaggerates her features the way Ian does for Damon.

6. I still have no idea why all the vampires would look to Katherine.

7. Katherine, my girl, why would Stefan come back to MF to fall in love with you all over again when he thought you died? Girl, stop.

8. Stefan is also a lot better at emotional manipulation than Damon like Damon does it the most and he does it aggressively but Stefan is way more stealth when he does it.

9. I can appreciate that Stefan is given the chance to torture his abuser but I am hella annoyed that Caroline wasn’t afforded the same chance with Damon.

10. I find it ridiculous that Elena tells Jenna to be nice to Damon when Damon killed her brother and Jenna’s nephew and I also find it ridiculous that Jenna tells Elena she’ll be nice when Damon “keeps [his] paws off [her]” and doesn’t tell Damon to leave her underage niece alone. Like Jenna, he was flirting with you and Matt’s mother at the bar! And this whole dynamic makes me question why Elena didn’t question Stefan and Damon dating one woman before she knew they were vampires because Stefan and Damon dating one woman is like her and Jenna dating the same guy.

11. Now when I watch the scene of Mason and Damon introducing themselves I think of that blooper when Ian goes, “Oh hey I’m Ian”, completely ruined the scene because now I expect Ian to introduce himself as Ian.

12. Lol Caroline trying to break up Stefan and Elena on Katherine’s orders just makes me laugh now.

13. But she’s eating chips and now I want chips.

14. Katherine legitimately comes off as a delusional, crazy ex girlfriend. “Does she know that you love me?” but like pretty much any woman who falls for Stefan comes off that way and that includes Elena storming into Tessa’s cabin when she had no business there.

15. Also they need to establish time with vampires because I’m sitting here thinking like, for argument’s sake, let’s say Stefan did love you in 1864, Katherine, that doesn’t suggest that he would love you over 100 years later, 100 years is a long ass time and throughout those years you watched him and he wasn’t pining for you and he thought you DIED soooooooooooo, I need to know if 100 years is considered like a year for a vampire especially since in season 7 Caroline is freaking out over Stefan being away for 3 years and gets her ass engaged in that time so like RULES.

16. It also makes absolutely no sense to me that Katherine would be staying in a house full of men in 1864 Virginia and everyone is OK with it. Propriety was a thing.

17. Damon stays being trash. “Is my love not enough?” well I don’t know, Damon, who did she take to the ball? It wasn’t you. She didn’t even speak to you all night! WHAT DO YOU THINK.

18. “I never compelled your love” but here’s the thing besides the fact that Stefan was clearly just infatuated, it doesn’t matter because once you do start compelling him, it all goes out the window, it poisons and pollutes what was there before because then you make him your victim, you take away how he truly feels about something and continue a relationship with him then everything that comes from that can never be completely real particularly since she compelled Stefan to drink her blood, like she really fucked up his life though.

19. DAMON IS SO BAD AT BEING STEALTHY. Yes, let’s antagonize Mason openly with pictionary because that is SO smart. Damon is bad at stealth also because he has a false sense of power and intelligence but Caroline’s “Puppy! Puppy! Puppy with a tutu!” is hilarious.

20. “Aunt Jenna is getting tipsy.” “Will you stop plying her with alcohol?” “Well I want her to like me! Nice. Very nice. A tactic he also uses on Elena in 1x11. This is typical predatory behaviour.

21. Also Damon is just UP in Elena’s space and she’s actually constantly startled and uncomfortable, that isn’t sexual tension.

22. Elena, aren’t you at all conflicted by the fact that Damon plans on stabbing one of your friend’s uncle? Like that just doesn’t cross your mind?

23. “You were so scared of me I had to take away your fear” or you could’ve left him alone, Katherine.

24. OK so George Lockwood was a werewolf and Katherine knew he was a werewolf and he knew she was a vampire and he decided because she knew he was a werewolf to tell the council about the vampires living in the town but was willing to strike a deal with the one person who knew he was a werewolf? I guess...

25. Damon and Alaric are SO obvious, it really annoys me.

26. Lol, Elena is like ... Stefan didn’t pick up his phone or answered any of my messages or texts so obviously I am going to his house. Cute.

27. “And Damon being Damon nearly ruined everything” pretty much an exact description of Damon.

28. “Is that the only thing that makes me terrible?” Damon, you killed her nephew.

29. Elena was never really big on defending her relationships to other people but she was definitely more protective of her relationship with Stefan when Caroline attacks it this episode than she was of her relationship to Damon when Caroline attacks that. 4x08 doesn’t count because she was Sired.

30. Damon is fucking ridiculous, it isn’t a full moon, he tried to kill Mason by stabbing him and it didn’t work and he just stands there? You’re not going to try any other methods? No, you’ll wait to rip his heart out then taunt Katherine with it and get Jenna stabbed. Jackass.

31. I don’t go hard for Katherine as a lot of you may know but that line is still fucking great, “I will kill everyone she loves WHILE she watches and then I will kill her while YOU watch” like that’s fucked up.

32. Paul’s expression when Katherine breaks free of the chains is actually kind of amazing and the way he’s like “why, why” like he’s just SO confused. “I told you! I missed you Stefan!” legit crazy ex-girlfriend.

33. Seriously love how Stefan and Elena like have to hug right after they experience something traumatic.

34. I’m sorry but Katherine just isn’t threatening. At last when Isobel came into town, to prove her point she had Matt’s arm nearly crushed.

35. Why is Tyler only obsessed with how the curse is triggered and not the fact that his uncle actually turns into a wolf? And like what’s it like to be a wolf and how long he was a wolf and why they call it a CURSE?

36. YO. I was so scared when this episode aired and the break up scene happened, I was like OMG NOOOOOOO.

37. And then he was in her room and they were all fucking cute and I was like OK YOU SCARED ME.

38. That moan when they kiss tho.

39. I remember my best friend and I watching this in our uni library and when Katherine kisses Dead Stefan’s lips she turned to me and was like SEE? SHE CARES! She was so excited and I was like ... she’s trying to get in between SE right now so idgaf. And she rolled her eyes. I remember that SO clearly.

40. It is a sweet scene with nice music tho.

Thanks for reading!

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pompamaroon · 7 years

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Answerin’ Asks #1: TogaFuka

@butt---stallion asked:

“ Speaking of personal thoughts,is it possible you may one day give us your thoughts on Togafuka and why it may/may not work? “

NOTICE: I SUCK AT WRITING THINGS ON THE SPOT. APOLOGIES FOR REPETITIONS AND AWFUL PUNCTUATION OR GRAMMAR. So I didn’t think the second thing I’d get to post on this blog would be about something I dislike but I’ll be as fair as possible concerning this. A big thing to think about when people ship characters together, and what their goal is when pairing two characters together is. The majority just wanna see two characters be together and be in a romantic relationship with each other, usually involving lovey-dovey stuff. So going on dates, living life together, etc. However recently it’s come to my attention that people can ship characters outside of just wanting to see the two love each other. Some wanna see opposites come to an attraction for one another, some just wanna put two characters together to see one or both of them suffer, while some just wanna see two characters together purely based on visuals. All of the above are pretty legit reasons, even if I don’t agree with it. Honestly most shipping is done for one’s self, so if you can convince yourself it’ll work, then that’s what matters really. Anyways, moving past that, in the traditional sense of two people coming to love one another and care for each other and all that lovey-dovey shit, then no. I don’t think TogaFuka could work on a purely romantic aspect. There’s lots of reasons for this, but the biggest one is that clearly Togami has no interest. In almost every single approach, interaction or mention of the two, Togami shows clear signs of disgust and that he doesn’t want her there. He usually emphasizes this by making her do things that she undoubtedly will do because I feel Togami recognizes just how obsessive she is and takes advantage of that. From making her hold her breath, telling her she smells disgusting, telling her to get as far as away as him as possible and even implications of having her electrocute herself for his sake(although Fukawa was the narrator of this information and she was delusional during it so I might be reaching with this one), it’s clear these are all methods in which he was trying to remove her from most situations he was in, even if the best he could do is silence her. Going ahead with that, it should honestly also be evident that Togami abuses Fukawa, especially emotionally and mentally. The amount of times he shoots down anything she has to say or insults her for basically just existing is ridiculous considering there’s a whole bunch of other kids there too. The worst part is that the narrative for the most port plays this up as laughs or focus on how far Fukawa herself is reaching. The first exchange you see between the two is Togami telling Fukawa she stinks and to go take a bath in a way that’s clearly meant to make it clear he sincerely thought poorly of her. However Touko quickly flips it in a way where she says “Amazing, he really cares since he told me to go bathe!” and since Makoto goes along with it, the reader is also just kind of lead to assume that Togami was indeed being nice. After all, if the protagonist/main narrator of the story said it was fine, why question it, right? This leads me to the next bit that bothers me and that is that it makes no sense for Fukawa to be crushing on Togami past Chapter 2. As Fukawa reveals to Makoto in her free time events, it was not uncommon for other students, especially boys, to make fun of her, take advantage of her and play tricks on her. When she had a crush, she put all her feelings into something she wrote when the crush was moving away and when the boy responded by pinning it up for everyone to see and leaving afterwards, it hurt Fukawa enough that Genocider Syo became a thing. And then Genocider Syo went so far as to find where the kid had moved and killed him. So during Chapter 2, when Fukawa confides her feelings with Togami and proves its real by telling her she’s Genocider Syo, Togami essentially does the same thing the boy did: Take something that was meant to be secret and throwing it out in the open for everyone to see. This leads to Fukawa telling Togami she hates him, and when Genocider shows up, she tells him to shut up and insults him immediately. It’s clear that from that point on, neither Fukawa nor Syo have any romantic feelings towards Togami and honestly just want to kill him then and there. While most would say that’s as far as it goes and it gets dismissed after Chapter 2, it doesn’t.

Well into Chapter 4, there’s still sprinklings that not only is Genocider Syo angry with how Togami treats them, but that she literally holds it in. She actively hates it, but can’t act on it due to the rules of the killing game. These lines are again written in a way where the reader is supposed to just take it as funny throw away lines but these are an important part of trying to understand both Fukawa and Syo characters. Why would she put up with how Togami treats her? This leads me to my final point, which is that I firmly believe that Fukawa does not truly love Togami. As mentioned above, after Togami betrayed Fukawa’s trust, it makes sense for her to feel like she did all those years ago with the boy who did the same which was with resentment and an urge to kill. Aside from that, if we take a look at how she interacts with Makoto in School Mode, we can see that she reacts just as well, if not even better with him than she ever does with Togami. Syo’s reactions are especially over-the-top, with her praises being especially thoughtful. However since School Mode is written in such a way to pander to any player, this honestly just leads me to believe any guy who treats Fukawa well has a fair shot with her. So that’d be a lot of the DR boys, if they’re willing to be as patient or thoughtful as Makoto is. To pull from a real source of how I know it’s true, I go to AE where, as soon as Haiji Towa is introduced, Fukawa immediately stops giving any sort of a fuck for Togami and looks ready to stay there with Towa instead simply because he’s rich. So this just kind of seals it that Fukawa is deep down either a gold digger or a woman who just really wants to be with someone who has power while deep down being a hopeless romantic that would love to meet anyone who truly does love her for who she is, kind of like Makoto or Komaru. It isn’t until Towa makes it clear he’s being a weenie who won’t do anything until the time is right that Fukawa snaps out of it. Which makes no sense since Togami did the same thing in DR1(he actively did nothing to contribute until Chapter 5), but by this point the readers have been clogged with flimsy reasons as to why Togami is totally a good guy™ that we don’t even question Fukawa. Looking beyond personalities though, I feel that they both hold each other back as characters. Let’s think about it, in both Chapters 1 and 2, Togami is a very antagonistic person who actively makes it clear that everyone should be participating in the killing game as to entertain him and do what he wants. However, once chapter 2 ends and Chapter 3 establishes Genocider as a character, Togami’s antagonistic streak just reaches a screeching halt out of nowhere. He’s still actively an asshole who shits on everyone, but he isn’t calling for people to kill each other anymore or willing to go out of his way to mess crime scenes like before. And why is this? Because Syo’s constantly chasing him down, and has literally driven him to the point where he can only hang out in the men’s locker rooms. This potentially great villain just gets reduced to nothing more than a joke, usually because of Genocider’s and Fukawa’s actions. Usually I’d revel in this, because it’s exactly what he deserves for all the nonsense in Chapters 1 and 2, but it’s impossible to get anything out of it when Genocider’s proclaiming her love of him while doing it. On top of that it’s hard to swallow that out of everyone else who could’ve survived, we got someone who’s character essentially gets neutered and is now known as nothing more than a smug rich guy who says mean things but then smiles and says ‘but’ followed by a word of praise(unless it concerns Fukawa in which case he doesn’t smile and tells her to go away). Or he’s the butt of a light joke. Like hell, the guy who’s supposed to be running the Togami conglomerate is getting constantly harassed by some nerd/fujoshi and when he tries to save a city he gets captured by a bunch of kids and held hostage and the other time he tries to save anyone he gets crushed under a bunch of rocks? At this point Togami just comes off as almost as pathetic as Towa, just in a different way and it’s all for the sake of trying to make him a character that isn’t meant to be a complete asshole when it’s clear he’d benefit way better as a character if he just was an asshole as intended. Then there’s Fukawa and Genocider. I’m conflicted, because on the one hand, Fukawa is given some weird kind of confidence when it comes to Togami. As is clear as day in AE, she is more than willing to step up to bat and succeed with flying colors if it’s for the sake of him. Fukawa is an incredibly strong, yet humble girl who hides behind a catty attitude and a feeling that she’ll fail. And by the end of AE she realizes that there is more to life besides Togami and that he doesn’t have to be everything in her life. And that’s great! I love that. However in DR3, that awesome lesson gets entirely thrown away in less than 24 minutes. Which is why I feel she is being held back by Togami. Now I know what most will say, that DR3 is bad and shouldn’t be taken as anything at all, but in a way it’s almost commentary on how people ship the two. Of course, I don’t think DR3′s writers were being anywhere that genius, but literally everything that makes Fukawa a great individual on her own gets tossed aside for the sake of being nothing more than Togami’s arm candy. Which sucks since after AE, Fukawa was completely set up to grow further, by not only accepting friends in her life and letting go of her attachment to her one sided crush to become a strong individual all her own. Yet no one seems to want that? No one wants Fukawa to actually grow too much as a character, and that’s not just shown by the fanbase but by how the anime’s writers thought people would wanna see Touko. And the worst part is lots of Fukawa’s fans loved it in DR3. They loved that she was willing to throw away everything she’d learned and developed if it meant she got to be with Togami, since clearly that’s the only thing that could make Fukawa happy. It’s not like we just went through a whole game where Fukawa was happy with someone else for a change, nope. Then there’s the one that I personally hate the most. It’s no secret but I really, really like Genocider Syo as a character. She’s a rough, independent, confident girl who literally says everything that comes to her mind regardless of how offensive, mean or unneeded it is. On top of that she’s more than capable of handling herself and her whole birth was made as a defense mechanism for Fukawa. Someone to remove everyone who would hurt Fukawa from her life so she wouldn’t be hurt again. She’s clearly rebellious, and plays by her own rules and I’m honestly all about characters like that. She really does remind me of a blend of a Sukeban and a Yandere, and the fact she takes center stage whenever she goes on with her comments easily made her my top 3 easily. So to see this character who’s supposed to be terrifyingly scary turn into nothing more than a subservient pawn to someone who clearly does not deserve it is beyond irritating. Especially when the first thing she told him was that she hated him. It’s beyond dumb that one of the guys who hurt Fukawa get away from being killed because of some bullshit exception that not even Kodaka himself or really anyone else con properly justify. The only reason we’re given is that Fukawa’s feelings are shared by Syo, so the reason why Syo loves Togami is because Fukawa does. And sure, I’d buy that, but as evidenced above, Fukawa hates Togami, and shows various times she doesn’t truly love him, so why? It’s just plain dumb and makes no sense and honestly Syo deserves much better than that as a character.

So there we go, why I don’t think TogaFuka works as a romantic couple or honestly as a positive couple for each other. However you also asked how it might work and honestly I could see it from two angles where it could work. The first being that it’s completely for the sake of making Fukawa’s dream come true. This would just be completely butchering Togami’s character but since the games and anime themselves have no trouble doing that to anyone, who am I to stop someone from making Togami fall in love with Fukawa over her proving herself time and time again. The second and honestly more realistic of the two is possible a Harley/Joker kind of couple. Toxic, unhealthy and involving the two basically just hurting one another, but mostly with Togami just treating Fukawa poorly and her taking it as her just having to try better next time. I’m definitely not a fan of this kind of stuff, but I could see it working for them, even if inevitably neither are happy in the long run. I hope that answered everything!

#Togafuka hate #long post #Answer #my awful writing

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