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[lilynovaph]

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[thepositivepeach]

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[shamanofthewilds]

Orc Lore Dive: Elder Shaman and Shaman Leadership

So there was a forum post that I answered a few days ago for someone asking what age it takes to become an ‘Elder Shaman’ so I decided to do some digging to brush up on what Elder Shaman meant and what is the difference between a shaman who is an elder and someone who is an Elder Shaman.

This is yet again, another very long form deep dive into a very niche thing. It’s long, I know, but I hope it provides some aid in some RP. Please excuse any typos or mishaps!!

So lets look at what it means to be an Elder Shaman as well as who can be one.

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We’ve seen so far, that while orcs are all going to have their own views there is an over all sense that there is respect for an elder status. Like in many cultures in the real world, respect to the people who have gone through the most and have experienced life at it’s fullest will have more respect for what they can teach the future generations.

We can assume with orcs that is the same, regardless if we’ve seen any characters look down upon those who were weaker or more advanced in age.

✦ So lets look at the title “Elder” and “Mother”.

I’m sure there far more examples than what I’ve found but these are the ones I’m using and we are going to use: Drek’thar, Ner’zhul, Nelgarm, Mother Kashur, Mother Om’ra, Greatmother Geyah and any other examples I find.

What all of these characters have in common is that they were or are in a position of leadership or something as close to leadership as one can get. 

The highest level of shaman in an orcish clan, and likely other similar cultures, puts them almost on the same level of respect and leadership to the Chieftain.

✦ Lets start with Mother Kashur, the Elder Shaman of the Frostwolf Clan. ✦

✦  Mother Kashur, Elder Shaman of the Frostwolf Clan

(Image from Warcraft: Legends)

It’s noted that: “Because of her high position of honor, her tent was second in lavishness only to that of Garad, the clan leader.” Rise of the Horde Ch.3.

Even when Durotan was asked by name by the Ancestors, Mother Kashur was astonished to think of how difficult a task it would be to be a leader and a shaman at he same time. Likely due to how being a high ranking shaman to begin with is full of responsibility already.

(The rest will be under Read More)

Mother Kashur was the Elder Shaman to the Frostwolf Clan. Her student being Drek’thar. So when Mother Kashur died during a hunt, Drek’thar then became the Elder Shaman to fill her place.

(As a side note: This makes the orcs manipulation by the Legion all the more devastating. Kil’jaeden went straight to the people the orcs were suppose to trust most. The spiritual leaders of their faith and the ones connected with their dead loved ones. Due to orcs leaning toward having customs that are very indigenous (with respect elders and a focus on animism), they used the respect they have for these Elders against them. Drek’thar, who became Elder Shaman now, had the respect and love for his teacher used against him. Kil’jaeden disguised as Mother Kashur to tell him that the draenei were in fact deceiving. The same goes for Ner’zhul, who was both Elder shaman and Chieftain. )

✦ His job was to then lead the important ceremonies for his clan. This is where it separates (for what I’ve seen so far) of who are the shaman that lead these rituals and who are the ones who are apprentices and aiding in it. It is the Elder shaman’s job to over see the Om’riggor, newborn ceremonies and leading young orcs to test and see if they have shamanic potential.

But going back to Mother Kashur for a moment, it seems that the title Mother is the title given to the spiritual women of high status. It is stated in the novel itself, that the Frostwolf Clan refer to her as Mother Reverently.

A role of caretaker, by being both elder and shaman, are deemed mother. Mother Kashur again was THE highest ranking shaman in the Frostwolf Clan. Even her own death was her choice after insisting on attending a hunt, which she had not done in years. She let herself be trampled.(The reason for her being there was the shaman role of helping distract beasts for the hunters as well as healers.)

 ✦ Mother Om’ra, Shadowmoon Chieftain.

(Screenshot from Wowhead.)

This is backed up by the NPC named Mother Om’ra who walks around with the title <Chieftain> in WoD’s Shadowmoon Valley. Because little lore was given for her aside from one drop that's titled ‘Legacy of Om’ra’ we can assume she was a Shadowmoon Chieftain as well as a Shaman, especially due to her dress of wearing the matching shaman set of the wolf headdress and shoulders.

Mother Om’ra, Mother Kashur and Greatmother Geyah are all shamans with a position of leadership and/or respect. (While not an orc, I found a taunka shaman named Mother Tauranook who you are directed to speak to for a quest.

✦ Greatmother Geyah, Spiritual Leader of Garadar

Greatmother Geyah, mother to Durotan and Grandmother to Thrall, assumed the position of spiritual leader to the Mag’har of Garadar.

(Garadar was the settlement in Nagrand to quarantine the orcs suffering from Red Pox. The disease that appeared 400 years ago. It was named after the Geyah’s mate Garad, who was father to Durotan and former Chieftain of the Frostwolf Clan. Here she took care of the ailing orcs who were struck with red pox.)

While the title is not Mother, Greatmother seems to be a title still of status and respect. She is also a shaman, who Thrall wanted to learn from.

She is one of the surviving orcs from a time when Durotan was Chieftain and when the orcs lived in peace among their clans with brown skin. 

When she gained the position of spiritual leader of the Mag’har, Mother Kashur began visiting her in her dreams.

Varok Saurfang trusted her and the other elders to watch over his son and hid him away in Garadar, hence why he was able to remain his natural skin color.

---

✦  So we see now that the title Mother (Or Greatmother) is one of respect for orc women who became the highest rank of shaman in the clan. Now, this is probably not always the case. Customs change, clans differ and an individual may have a preference. However so far, Mother has been consistent.

It’s even stated that the Frostwolf Orcs ‘Reverently’ addressed her as such, like mentioned earlier.

Non orcish versions would be Mother Tauranook of the Taunka. But if she is a high up leader it’s unknown. We can only infer she is important to speak to since you are instructed to go find her.

Magatha is a rare example, she is Elder Crone.

---

So now getting on the full topic of Elder we have several examples of orc shaman leaders being called Elder. 

The Elder examples we can take a look at now , who did not gain a title of Mother, are Drek’thar and Ner’zhul (and others if I find). Like mentioned earlier, when Mother Kashur passed, Drek’thar took her spot as senior shaman. Meaning he was the head shaman responsible for over seeing the same things she did.

✦  Ner’zhul, Chieftain of the Shadowmoon Clan

Both Drek’thar and Ner’zhul have or held the title of Chieftain. Ner’zhul was the Chieftain of the Shadowmoon Clan. He was one of most respected shaman among the orcs and known for his power. He is also titled as Elder Shaman of the Shadowmoon Clan seeing as he both Chieftain and Shaman at the same time.

To be a shaman and a leader is  extremely difficult according to Mother Kashur as noted here from the novel:

“She had not thought Durotan's feet would walk that road; it was rare that a shaman led a clan. There would be too much pulling him in each direction for him to be an effective leader. To both listen to and honor the spirits and to guide one's people well were more than most orcs could manage. One who could do both would be a remarkable orc indeed.” Rise of the Horde , Chapter 3

(While some lore about Ner’zhul has been...switched around due to the Chronicles, this statement on leadership still holds up.)

This right here states without stating it why Chieftain Ner’zhul was such a well respected orc. Not only was he a leader to the Shadowmoon, he was an effective shaman who managed to grab the attention of not just his own people but all of the orcs when speaking during the Kosh’harg. It shows how spirituality plays an important role into an orcs status and why he was so well beloved and looked to, and why his downfall is all the more tragic.

He played a pivotal role of speaking at the Kosh’harg, which was a bi-annual festival started by the Shadowmoon Clan themselves many years before his leadership.

✦ Orcs rallying together 400 years before the Dark Portal

✦  Nelgarm, however, has not been stated if he was Chieftain of the Shadowmoon Clan. He has only been labeled as Elder Shaman of the Shadowmoon Clan. This is important due to his role against rallying forces against the ogres.

Nelgarm was introduced in the Chronicles: Vol II having been an orc shaman 400 years before the time of Ner’zhul. His story holds up the draw and leadership an Elder Shaman. It was his pleading at the next Kosh’harg to the orcs to join with him and push back the ogres of the Gorian Empire who were violating the Throne of the Elements with arcane. All clans rallied with him against the ogres and all of Draenor went to war. Every orc against every ogre.

The orcs were victorious when they pushed them back to the capital of Goria. It was here the capital saw the full wrath of the elements and was flattened. It was also during the time when red pox first appeared.

Nelgarm is notable for all of this. His leadership into not only rallying an army, but making it a successful one. The fall of the Gorian Empire and seeing first hand how frightening the elements were.

Yet, it did not state who was Chieftain at this time and it did not say he was Chieftain. It is highly possible he was, but until that is stated we cannot say for certain.

✦ Drek’thar

Drek’tar was named Elder Shaman once his teacher, Mother Kashur, died during a clefthoof hunting party. As stated earlier, he was unfortunately met with Mother Kashur in his visions, an actual disguised Kil’jaeden, and led him to believe that the draenei were an enemy. This let him accept when Ner’zhul announced what he had been told as well. Two Elder Shaman, speakers for the Ancestors, trusted what these ancestors had to say.

As Elder Shaman,  he spoke for the right for him and his shaman to learn the ways of the Warlock, because without that, they were useless.

Drek’thar eventually in life gained the title Chieftain as well as Elder Shaman, much like Ner’zhul. During the Frostwolf exile into the Alterac Mountains is where Drek’thar ended up until Thrall appeared.

Due to Thrall’s newness of being a shaman at the time is probably why it has not been stated anywhere that he was Elder Shaman. He was Chieftain and a Shaman, but Drek’thar likely still had that role being the more experienced of the two. Once Thrall stepped down, Drek’thar resumed his position as Chieftain of the Frostwolf Clan and Elder Shaman.

(Speculation: It can almost be assumed that should Chieftains and heirs of Chieftains go missing, the Elder Shaman assumes control. Considering the fact that once Durotan and Draka disappeared with Thrall (Go’el), Drek’thar, even in his advanced age, was the one to lead the Frostwolf Clan during their exile. This, again, is an assumption.)

✦ What do Elder Shaman do?

So far we have seen that Elder Shaman have a position as close to a Chieftain as they can be if they are not already one. They are still limited in what they can do, seeing as they still need the Chieftain’s permission for some choices. One being the allowance of the shaman becoming warlock due to Durotan originally forbiding it.

The Elder Shaman is close to the Chieftain and aids in advising them. They are the primary healers on hunts. Along with other shaman who join the hunts, they aid in the distraction of animals to help the hunters in their shot.

They over see the important ceremonies. Such as newborn ceremonies where infants are handed to the father while they stand in a body of water. At the end of it, the Elder Shaman over sees the infant’s blessing by the elements.

The Elder Shaman is also responsible for over seeing the clans young ones in testing for their shamanic gifts. It can also be assumed they are overall head healers, speakers at the Kosh’harg and experts on dealing with the natural world and the shaman below them learn from the Elder Shaman.

While not stated out right, the Shaman who taste the blood at the end of an Om’riggor might be any shaman. Though, seeing this is a rite of adulthood, it can be assumed that the Elder Shaman over sees this the majority of the time. For cases like Durotan, Mother Kashur most likely over saw his Om’riggor seeing as she led him to Oshu’gun as she had done for many other orcs.

These days, due to there being less of a clan structure, it’s uncertain how Elder Shaman go about their duties. There is no complete dissolving of idenfitying to a clan heritage, so here is where some assumption has to be made as to how people access their cultural elders. The shaman who live on the premises may be able to fulfill the cultural needs of the orcs. This being shaman who live and work in Orgrimmar as well as other settlements across Azeroth. This could also exist within the family, if the Elder Shaman becomes the shaman who lives with the family now that orcs live less in nomadic clans and more in traditional family structures.

✦ Farseers

Farseer are powerful shaman who are able to do remarkable things with their gift and were among the trusted shaman close to Thrall. Drek’thar is stated in being a Farseer. Farseers can have access to the future in visions and can call upon powerful spirits like spirit wolves. However not every Farseer appears to be an Elder Shaman. But it might be possible that Farseer might be able to fulfill Elder Shaman duties...but this has not been stated anywhere and is merely a speculation due to modern times being without Chieftains.

✦ Elder Far Seer Zor Lonetree?

An orc who works in Grommash Hold, it’s not stated that he has any spiritual leadership, but he IS an Elder existing where the Warchief would be.What he does aside. However, he does seem to be there for his political knowlege of the Alliance as well as his spirtual guidance. He is noted for being well versed in it. He was able to identify jewelry being of Alliance make and access to scholars if the item that was given to him was of any importance among human nobility. What his title as an Elder and a Far Seer may also mean has yet to be found yet (by me.)

(We’re getting into a bit of fanon now, but it would not be impossible to say that orc settlements and societies in modern times have shaman living in the community still to fulfill the orcish needs of spiritluality. Especially considering the presence of “Shaman trainers” in cities among other paths. But that is pure speculation, but with the use of what is shown to us. I try to use context clues to build off anything I may not know to avoid making things up and making others go along with it.)

✦ Who can be Elder Shaman?

So far, just shaman. Of any gender identity so long as they are the apprientance to the higher ranking, pre existing, Elder Shaman who learn the traditions that they will some day be fullfilling.

They can become chieftains as well, as we’ve see, which retains the Elder Shaman status. Far seers can be Elder Shaman. We’ve also seen this title among other cultures such as tauren, draenei, even wolvar. Even in the wolvar tribes, an appointed Elder Shaman have high responsibitlies as shown by Elder Moky from WotLK.

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Many cultures in WoW who lean toward native traditions of shamanism seem to have the general belief system of elders being a position of respect. Be it age or position of power, the elders of ones community are to be respected.

I am sure there is more to this, and I probably missed some things as well.

There is a lot missing in understanding what some of these titles mean and how they are gained or where they come from.

And what is even worse is when a lot of the genuine looks into the world , like the novels, are subject to awful retcons and reworkings of stories. Theres plenty of books and quests I have not seen and there very well could be things I’ve missed!

Either way, I hope this long write up was interesting and helpful. I will probably be fixing typos and re-reblogging it in the future. But I’m incredibly hungry at this point!

--

So until then, May the Ancestors watch over you!

#orcs #orc lore #warcraft lore #shaman lore #World of Warcraft #orc shaman #orc rp #WRA #Elder Shaman #lore writing #long post #writings and such #This is very long and I will be going back and fixing typos later but I wanna post this now

[shape]

אני נשאר- שלישיית מה קשור Shlishiyat Ma Kashur

I'm Staying

It's correct that the situation here isn't brilliant there are wall to wall problems and mistakes and something inside us is slightly broken but precisely1because of this i'm staying

It's true that there is fear for survival here i see it in the eyes of my mother the fissure between us has opened again but precisely because of this i'm staying

And sometimes i forget i feel like a guest here tell me what will be tomorrow but precisely because of this i'm staying and sometimes i'm happy because there is good here, it'll win out i'm happy for a moment, sing yes, precisely because of this i'm staying

It's true that we lost a bit of our innocence let me just return to my youth for a moment and sometimes it seems that it's already too late but precisely because of this i'm staying

It's true that it's hard for people to thrive try paying2now the month's bills with honor and what about all the promises of the honorable minister yes, precisely because of this i'm staying

And in a dream i escape in a plane from army reserve service, from the mortgage, from the boss and land at some relaxed refuge on a mountain but always indeed in the end i'm staying

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/ani-nishar-im-staying.html

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[indianencyclopedia]

Kashmir, nestled in the Himalayan region, is known for its picturesque landscapes, rich culture, and linguistic diversity. The region is home to several languages, each reflecting the historical and cultural influences that have shaped Kashmir over the centuries.

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[panunolx]

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[darwaqas1-blog]

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[rmagrey]

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[war4utv]

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[shamanofthewilds]

I really enjoyed your write up on shaman and elder shaman!

It made me wonder about Thrall... I'm curious about what you think. In your opinion, do you think some of Thrall's spiritual turmoil may have been due to him walking the path of a shaman and a chieftan/warchief?

(And if they did already state that and I simply missed it, let me know! I admit I haven't done a deep lore dive, myself.)

Thank you!!! I probably need to go back and fix it, I always have a problem with typos and there are probably simpler ways to phrase things. But I was inspired to do a deep dive on this topic of being an Elder Shaman since it's not something I see covered as a title in lore. It seems to be all context clues and just paying attention to whats being said. And I would say yes! Around the Cataclysm is when the story of Thrall exploring his spirituality came into play. Pushing aside all the memes, and maybe poor choices in some peoples opinions I think it lines up well to that statement by Mother Kashur.

Thrall was beginning to feel like the honeymoon period was starting to fade with him as leader. He felt, in his opinion, that he was what was needed during the freeing of the orcs and he was effective in leading them from the interment camps but he began to feel that divide. It was more than just spiritual turmoil, it was a cultural one as well. He never really had the chance to experience all the things he brought back and he missed out on the spiritual aspect of being an orc and a shaman. Once the Cataclysm started to upset the elements, he needed a better way to understand the elements and he couldn't do that and be Warchief at the same time. This is why he left Garrosh in charge. The orcs were responding well to Garrosh. Really really well. He was young and he gave everyone hope and he kept their focus. While away, Thrall needed access the other part of him he's been neglecting. So even here, it's consistent that being both a leader and a shaman is extremely difficult. He did it well for what he DID know, but the downside is that Thrall lacked the benefit someone like Ner'zhul had. Ner'zhul was his clan, his culture and always had that around him while he led. Thrall was not Chieftain and Shaman for the Frostwolves for very long, not long enough for him to have access to his culture all the time. Having Far Seers on his inner council was likely beneficial but it wouldn't always be a cultural experience, especially considering everyone else there are going to be getting his attention for different things. So yes, very much so. Thrall being a shaman and a Warchief had it's clash. But it didn't really start to finally show that he had more to understand about himself and who he was until the elements began to grow too uneasy where not even he knew what to do.

#long post

[mr-chaku]

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[srinagarkashmir]

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[panunolx]

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[valley-of-artists-blog]

Follow ⏭️ @valley_of_artists Translation: My wise lover is enchanted; whence gone, how'd I know' He is Yousef, himself is Zulaikhah; a lover he is undo his self, my dear. -Rasool Mir . .. #repost ⏭️ @kashirquotes @kashirquotes #VOA Picture credits : @kashmirviamylens #kashirquotes Tags #kashir #kashmirculture #kasheer #kashmir #kashur #culture #tradition #kashmiriculture #kashmiriyat #beingkashmiri #kashmiris #kashmirilanguage #faith #jammuandkashmir #kashmirlovers #kashmirvalley #kashmirlife #kashmirtradition #people #kashmiripandit #life #quotes #wordsofwisdom #wisdom #hope #help #prayer (at Srinagar, Jammu and Kashmir) https://www.instagram.com/p/CFL69Q9lJSF/?igshid=15ux8yhoc9acq

#repost #voa #kashirquotes #kashir #kashmirculture #kasheer #kashmir #kashur #culture #tradition #kashmiriculture #kashmiriyat #beingkashmiri #kashmiris #kashmirilanguage #faith #jammuandkashmir #kashmirlovers #kashmirvalley #kashmirlife #kashmirtradition #people #kashmiripandit #life #quotes #wordsofwisdom #wisdom #hope #help #prayer

[lavishingkashmir-blog]

#travel #travel_captures #Nikon #travellingthroughouttheworld #streetsofhimalayas #outlooktraveller #thecultpost #kashmir_lovers #kashur #kashmirlife #kashmirbeauty #IloveTripAdvisor #captured_illusions #mountains #spring #kashmirimages (at Kulgam Kashmir) https://www.instagram.com/p/CCP3l-qhBtE/?igshid=119fr9e04lz8c

#travel #travel_captures #nikon #travellingthroughouttheworld #streetsofhimalayas #outlooktraveller #thecultpost #kashmir_lovers #kashur #kashmirlife #kashmirbeauty #ilovetripadvisor #captured_illusions #mountains #spring #kashmirimages