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khattikeri · 3 months

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one of my favorite things about mdzs is that for how heavily its plot involves politics of classism and misogyny... even the characters most directly impacted by it can't and don't free themselves from it. literally the closest exception is mianmian.

meng yao being the "son of a whore" wasn't some sort of commie awakening for him that led him to wanting everyone to be socially equal. he played the political game, climbed the ladders, sucked up to and backstabbed and murdered people, including other prostitutes who actually had nothing to do with how he and his mother were treated at the brothel he grew up in.

he put in so much extra excessive effort for even a fraction of the same respect that members of gentry cultivation clans got. and he did deserve to be treated more humanely! but he feeds into the exact same system that created him, leading to his own undoing.

his efforts were for a fragile upward mobility that was never going to hold up. he never surpassed his origins nor did he empower others in similar stations, because the society he lives in is not one that would accept that.

the second he got caught and all those crimes exposed, he was scapegoated to hell and back, replacing wei wuxian as society's terrible one-sidedly evil boogeyman overnight.

speaking of not-quite male gentry, i think it's interesting that wei wuxian explicitly doesn't try to climb the ladders in BOTH lives, knowing full well that anything he does will be punished just for the sheer fact that he is wei wuxian.

wei wuxian is scolded for giving intelligent and correct answers in school. lan wangji does the same and is praised.

wei wuxian occasionally lounges around with fellow disciples and is punished. jiang cheng does the same and mostly escapes.

wei wuxian refuses to carry his sword around in public (after losing his golden core, which nobody knows) and is scorned as an arrogant upstart. nie huaisang has been doing the EXACT SAME THING for YEARS and nobody bats an eye.

unlike jin guangyao, wei wuxian knew subconsciously from the start that his acceptance was superficial and that he could be cast out any time. when he was 10 and recently taken in by the jiangs, he canonically would not eat or use "too much" food and water because he thought they'd find him a nuisance for "wasting their things" and kick him back out.

now away from just the classism, yu ziyuan is a proud and strong noblewoman in a society that belittles and derides women for everything they do. her strong cultivation doesn't matter. she's victim to the vicious rumors of her husband loving another woman who is strong like her but apparently had a more likeable personality.

it doesn't matter even if jiang fengmian didn't cheat or that wei wuxian is wei changze's son with cangse sanren; yu ziyuan can't bear with the humiliation of herself (and by extension her children) not being "good enough". she's ridiculed for "failing" in that one duty as a wife, mother, and woman.

she lashes out and takes out that anger on everyone present for years, giving her children lasting trauma and also being a key element in how the jiang family and yunmeng jiang sect are effectively wiped out at the hands of the wen clan.

madam jin doesn't even have a name outside of the fact that she's married to jin guangshan. i don't even remember reading anything that indicates if she's a strong or weak cultivator, or what, which in itself proves that to most people, it doesn't matter. she's "just" a woman.

of course she's angry at her husband's affairs and all the bastard children they bring in. but she also can't do anything about them, so she lashes out at the few people she can: servants. non-cultivators, probably. those very same bastard children.

shoutout to meng yao getting shoved down a flight of stairs at age fourteen, because if madam jin tried that move against her husband instead, it would make her lose even more face, which as a noblewoman she'd never do.

and that's not getting into how jiang yanli is consistently sidelined for being physically weak.

that's not getting into how mianmian was actually a good cultivator, but was mocked by everyone around her for trying to stand up for wei wuxian when everyone was turning on him. how everyone scoffed at luo qingyang's words as "just some lovesick woman" who "obviously wants to marry or bed him since he saved her".

luo qingyang is the only one of these characters who HASN'T died. she didn't play society's games like jin guangyao. she didn't dig her heels in confidence of her own abilities like wei wuxian.

she didn't bitterly lash out like yu ziyuan and madam jin. she didn't gently accept it like jiang yanli.

she just LEFT.

she married an ordinary merchant and cultivates separately from mainstream cultivation society, and therein found her own peace and happiness.

mxtx doesn't bother with particularly class conscious or feminist vocabulary to hand-hold readers into understanding these disparities, but that choice highlights them & the deeply entrenched politics of their society even more. i really love it.

#keri chats #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #long post #mdzs spoilers #im novel only but still tagging.#the untamed #cql #yeah yeah everyone's written meta addressing this aspect of the story BUT I THINK ABOUT IT ALL THE TIMEEEEE #maybe i just don't get to read a ton of books often; esp not ones that mirror my own culture. but it's just so. soooooo. augh #the fact that the setting itself enables so much of the tragedy in mdzs... which is true of all tragedies but STILL...#this isn't even getting into qin su and the power imbalance w her and jgy post-reveal... man.#man. so much going on here. man #THIS POST IS MESSY AND BARELY EDITED BUT IF U READ IT. ILU

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mxtxfanatic · 2 months

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Bing-ge and Victim's Entitlement as Portrayed by MXTX

I was thinking about Bing-ge’s journey as an abuse victim into an abuser and how much the creation of Bing-mei is a critique on both the writing trope that creates Bing-ge as well as the societal expectations that drive it.

In the world of PIDW, one of Shen Yuan’s main critiques was about how terribly the young Luo Binghe is treated by the narrative, so much so that he views it as torture porn. From being abandoned as a baby, to being abused as a servant and watching his adoptive mother wither from sickness and die, to finding his way to Cang Qiong Mountain and suffering under a cruel shizun who then pushes him into hell, Shen Yuan finds all this unnecessarily cruel. However, Shang Qinghua knows that the trauma Luo Binghe suffers directly correlates to the enjoyment readers are meant to get out of the second half of the protagonist’s life when he becomes overpowered and primed for vengeance. Shen Yuan knows this, too, as this is the trope he girds himself with as Shen Qingqiu to work up the nerve to push his disciple into the Endless Abyss, to “earn” his happiness. However, is this a true happiness? Does the trauma justify any and all of Luo Binghe’s actions?

On the surface, Bing-ge seems happy! He is able to enact revenge on Shen Jiu—and demolish Cang Qiong Mountain Sect who acted as accomplices to his abuse—and was given narrative access to any and every woman of marriageable age who crossed his path. He is even able to destroy his world by merging the three realms with no consequences to himself. Bing-ge has seemingly reaped the twisted “reward” that having survived unconscionable abuse and abandonment from the time of his birth had sown for him, and PIDW readers were able to enjoy and defend Bing-ge’s later megalomaniacal actions directly because they had read through hundreds of pages of his ill-treatment beforehand. The worse Luo Binghe’s childhood was, the more they were willing to accept of his actions in adulthood. We see a similar thing take place in the SVSSS fandom: the reveal of Shen Jiu’s past as a child slave is used to justify his later abuse of his child disciples—children who had no hand in his trauma but who he has decided to bear the brunt of it, anyways. But Shen Jiu lived a very unfulfilling adulthood due to his unwarranted actions until his untimely death. Is Luo Binghe any different?

Enter Bing-mei: the revised protagonist who abandons revenge in pursuit of experiencing genuine affection from the only person who gave it unconditionally. No, Bing-mei doesn’t get all the girls or all the power. He does not become the emperor of all three realms and he is not an uncontested leader that all conscious beings bow to. In fact, he is very tame and controlled in comparison to his PIDW counterpart despite not having complete control of his sword that amplifies his negative emotions. But when Bing-ge slips into the world of SVSSS and discovers that, despite all of this, Bing-mei has an intact world, platonic relationships, and a shizun who loves him, he’s willing to throw it all away to experience that same life. Bing-ge is revealed to be the unhappy, unfulfilled one, because the one thing he wanted—genuine unconditional love—was the one thing that he cannot earn or forcibly take. No amount of audience hype can change the fact that Bing-ge must leave behind the happy Bingqiu couple to return to his destroyed world in his unsatisfying reality.

This isn’t just a theme in SVSSS, either; it’s present in all of MXTX’s works in how people—both characters and the irl fandom—react to antagonists and asshole characters who have experienced trauma. In mdzs: a female cultivator tries to say that Jin Ling endangering other cultivators should be forgiven “since he’s an orphan.” Jiang Cheng throws his parents’ and sister’s death around to justify being an unrepentant serial killer. Jin Guangyao cries about how much his father hates him compared to the legitimate Jin heirs that he murdered. In tgcf: Qi Rong escapes discipline at every turn because his mother had to escape with him from his abusive father, and Mu Qing’s transgressions against the marginalized are ignored because “he was poor, once.” All of these characters have their actions whitewashed both in their stories and by their fandoms at large because their defenders believe that their trauma excuses any of their subsequent behavior.

Yet, MXTX does not prescribe to this idea. Notice the pattern of how the above characters end their stories. Jiang Cheng tanks his reputation and loses the respect of his only living relative. Jin Guangyao and Qi Rong die. But Jin Ling experiences setback after setback until he adjusts his behavior, and Mu Qing had to earnestly apologize under harrowing circumstances to be forgiven. It is not characters who seek justice for being harmed who are punished in these novels but those who persevere in their entitlement to do whatever they want because they were once harmed, thereby eventually destroy any goodwill others, particularly their loved ones, had towards them. The characters who are able to contain their actions to aim only at those who wronged them or else honestly reflect on their sense of entitlement in order to change for the better become well-liked by their peers. And as for Bing-ge: his inability to change within the narrative of PIDW may have “earned” him all the material things his world could offer and the affections of an unseen audience, besides, but he misses out on true human connection and love. These are the things he can never forcibly take, because in real life, no amount of trauma would entitle him—or anyone—to those things.

#human metas mxtx #svsss #mdzs #tgcf

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shanastoryteller · 7 months

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Blessed Samhain, Shana! more Lady Mo or something else genderbendy?

a continuation of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47

Lan Xichen hasn’t seen Wangji this upset in thirteen years and he has no idea what could be the cause. He guides him to A-Yao’s private garden, mind spinning. If Xuanyu were in some sort of immediate danger, Wangji would not leave her side. He’s sure of that and it’s all that’s keeping him from marching back to Jiang Yanli and demanding an explanation out of her himself. He hopes Sizhui hasn’t noticed the commotion, certain it will cause his nephew to worry, but he doesn’t spare too much thought on it because right now his first concern is his brother.

Worryingly, when they come to a stop Wangji just continues to stare at him blankly.

“What happened?” he asks, resisting the urge to grab him by his shoulders and shake him. “Did you and Xuanyu get into a disagreement?”

Perhaps something to do with Jin Guangshan? Lan Xichen has long abandoned the idea that she’s some sort of spy, as has A-Yao, but that doesn’t mean her father can’t want things from her, can’t be trying to make things difficult for her. Perhaps Jiang Yanli was warning her and Xuanyu and Wangji had a fight about it? They fight often enough that he can’t imagine anything that would send Wangji running.

“I’ve done something terrible,” Wangji says tonelessly. “This is my fault.”

Wangji faced down forty Lan clan elders and received forty lashings all without admitting a single moment of poor judgement or regret. Punishments he accepts easily – culpability, significantly less.

“What are you talking about?” he demands, trying to keep the alarm out of his voice. “What did you do?”

“Xuanyu,” he starts, then presses his lips together and shakes his head.

He would not harm Xuanyu. Even that spar that set half the clan to breaking the rules about gossip was not about harm. He’ll fight her, argue with her, spar with her, but Wangji worries and watches over Xuanyu constantly, vexed and surprised by her at turns, and Lan Xichen had felt aching relief when the woman his brother had been coerced to marry had turned out to be someone that Wangji couldn’t look away from.

He forces himself to sound calm. “What about Xuanyu?”

Wangji wets his lips and has to clear his throat twice before he can make himself speak. “She’s pregnant.”

Lan Xichen stares.

The relief is enough to make his knees week and his grip on Wangji’s shoulder doubles as a way to steady himself. “Wangji! You nearly gave me a heart attack! This is wonderful-”

“Wonderful?” he repeats, looking at him like he’s grown another head.

Some of that relief drains away. “Is it not? Is something wrong with the baby? Or Xuanyu? I know she was a little weak when you married, but she’s gotten so much stronger.” A terrible thought occurs to him. “Is she – she’s happy about it, isn’t she? She said that she likes kids and she’s so good with Sizhui, she must be happy.”

“I,” Wangji blinks, “I don’t – I didn’t ask–”

“Well, what did you say?” he asks in exasperation.

“I apologized.”

A-Yao isn’t here, but Lan Xichen feels the familiar urge to turn to him. “You apologized.” Wangji nods. “Xuanyu told you that she was carrying your child. And you apologized. Then left.”

He nods again, slower this time.

Lan Xichen grips the bridge of his nose.

“LAN WANGJI!”

They both turn to see Jiang Cheng headed straight for them, sword unsheathed and Zidian sparking, although that’s not the most alarming part. The last time Lan Xichen saw that look on Jiang Cheng’s face, they were on a battlefield.

This, at least, likely is Wangji’s fault.

#prompt answers #prompts are closed #asks #alexseanchai #untamed

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oneeyedoctogod · 8 months

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Gods this fandom sometimes, I swear. I'm sorry I read two deeply bad takes back to back, and I have to rant. I'm sure others have said it better than I, but really. Come on. I actually have to wonder if people who talk about the extras actually read them because...

Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji didn't leave the cultivation world in canon. They elope, and then they come back. The fact they're not involved in the bigger politics is... pretty much to be expected, but they very much do participate in the day to day lives of the Lan sect. They go where the chaos is to night hunt, they teach, Lan Wangji comforts his brother in his seclusion, and Wei Wuxian meets some new Lan disciples.

As for the cottage fantasy... Again, I honestly have to wonder if the people talking about it actually read the extra it's in? Because it's just that. A fantasy. A dream. It's basically a representation of Wei Wuxian's wants for a domestic life, something he definitely has now! He's always been characterised as someone who wants to help others and who loves cultivation. Why would you think the dream is to be taken literally?

And the idea that Wei Wuxian has 'several important relationships just floating there', that he's not dealing with... Where? Which ones? He teaches the juniors and grows closer to Jin Ling. He doesn't exactly interact with Lan Xichen, but he asks after him. He meets Mianmian again and wishes her well. He asks after Wen Ning after Lan Sizhui comes back then has some father-son bonding moments with him!

Nie Huaisang and Wei Wucian aren't close. They were friendly once, but they didn't ever meet after the lectures. I don't see how that qualifies as an "important" relationship, especially with Nie Huaisang never openly admitting to his part in Wei Wuxian's resurrection. But even then, Wei wuxian says he'll be keeping a close eye on him, so one can imagine they meet again at some point.

As for Jiang Cheng... what more do you want Wei Wuxian to do exactly? Even if you want a reconciliation, why can't Jiang Cjeng be he one to actually grow up and do the work for once? He's the one who never apologized. He's the one who is still openly hostile in the extras. If Wei Wuxian wants to move on and not interact with him, he's well within his right to do that, given how Jiang Cheng treated him. Hell, he's more generous than most since he encourages Jin Ling to talk to Jiang Cheng. If I'd been treated by someone like Jiang Cheng treated Wei Wuxian and saw him hit our nephew several times, I certainly wouldn't encourage them to meet. (But that's Wei Wuxian for you, the moral ideal and better than all of us.)

Anyway, I really don't understand why people insist on making Wangxian have a sadder ending than the one they actually did. It's a HEA for them, sorry guys. And yeah, maybe Wei wuxian has some trauma to work on... but the whole point of the character is that he doesn't let his trauma define him. That he wants to forgives, forgets and moves on.

(Also, just because he doesn't have a breakdown or the cultivation equivalent of therapy in the extra doesn't mean he's not working on them? He finally is at peace, with a solid support network. Maybe he does talk about his past hurts with Lan Wangji - Lan Wangji certai ly knows when to comfort him when he needs it. But the narrative point of the extras is to show they're moving on from the past! And you know what, sometimes the beat thing to do to heal is to do just that. They're living their best lives, deal with it.)

And finally... shit did you really read the whole book and come to the conclusion Wei Wuxian should have 'learned to accept help'? Who the fuck offered help? Who did he refuse?

(Don't say Lan Wangji. 1) I love him, but "Come back to Gusu" is very much not an obvious offer to help, and when Wei Wuxian understandably misunderstands him, he never manages to correct it.

And 2) once Wei Wuxian tells him explicitly he's not leaving the Wen remnants behind, Lan Wangji understands and backs off. He approves! I'm sure he'd do more if he could, but just like Jiang Yanli, he can't!)

Jiang Cheng literally said, 'No one will help you, no one is on your side' (and then made sure that was true by saying Wei Wuxian was the enemy of the cultivation world). Jin Zixuan chose to ask the one who was ambushed to disarm rather than the 300 cultivators attacking him and lunged at him when Wei Wuxian refused to comply (because he'd be killed if he did!!). How is that help?

Who else tried to help? Whose help did Wei Wuxian reject?

Wei Wuxian was presented with a series of bad choices and took the best he could, the ones aligned with his principles, accepting he'd have to face consequences at some point but also knowing it was still worth it. He's not the one who failed or made a fatal mistake or betrayed his word.

Rant over. Sorry about that.

#MDZS #Wangxian #Wei Wuxian #I am so sorry but those two posts pissed me off #I dont want to fall into the easy argument lf 'you lack reading comprehension' but...#seriously all of that is EXPLICITLY SAID in the text #this is not interpretation!

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jiangwanyinscatmom · 2 months

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The fascination to make the likes of Shen Jiu, Jiang Cheng, and Mu Qing everything they aren't while claiming to understand everything about their character will forever amaze me. No, you don't actually understand them as they are, especially because what's wanted is your own sense of redemption and what they deserve as way of a reward for their realizations.

Yet their acceptance of their horrid behaviors is their redemption. The bare minimum of acknowledging the cruelty they inflicted and put on to others as well is it. You do not get rewarded, nor should expect to be, for that realization that you have deliberately let others be hurt because of your own jealousy and hate. Realizing is just one part of betterment. The only one that does actively try to make amends and shows some sort of understanding to maintain an actual semblance of friendship that is now with boundaries and understanding of expectations from that, is Mu Qing. He is the only one that reaches out with his apologies to say he wants Xie Lian as a friend despite his jealousy and behavior of the past.

Shen Jiu and Jiang Cheng have no such regrets since their cynicism and self-absorption stays the principal feeling of their regrets. It is not for the sympathy and regret for what others did for them that they're upset, it's the way they know they have no right to disregard the selflessness that Wei Wuxian and Yue Qingyuan showed for them. The reality of having squandered and belittled that because of their own hate, self grandeur, and egoism convinced them it was appropriate and reasonable. Only one amongst these three did have the maturity to admit and willingly want to place the effort into maintaining the friendship he still wanted when saying he was actively wrong and jealous of who Xie Lian was. Shen Jiu still was forever bitter about Yue Qingyuan while also not wanting to think that perhaps Yue Qingyuan was suffering as well. Jiang Cheng still spoke in terms of debts and repayment as if Wei Wuxian was settling to buy off his own life to freedom. They did not want to actively change because they didn't see anything wrong in their own selves.

That is where at least Mu Qing has the opening to do and be better, to be a friend finally to Xie Lian. Redemption isn't meant to be satisfying for anyone but the one who seeks it in their own way. Sometimes it's also disappointing as an outside party that they don't want to change for the better with that realization of identity and still are hateful to the core.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #svsss #scum villian self saving system #tgcf #tian guan ci fu #heaven official's blessing #jiang cheng #shen jiu #mu qing

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wise-tortoise · 6 months

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Hi! i’m new to chengxian. so i was wondering, do you have any recs please? preferably long one shots (10k+) and set in the original location (i don’t like modern aus mostly as they are based in the us or uk). sorry for all the stipulations!

HELLO ANON AND WELCOME TO CHENGXIAN!!

I am DELIGHTED to be a source of fic recs, and I have JUST the fics for you.

First of all, I highly recommend checking out the various ao3 collections of past chengxian events, such as Chengxian Happy Ending Fest, or Chengxian Minibang 2023, Chengxian Week 2020, Chengxian Week 2021 , Our Meeting is Inevitable or The Chengxian+ Collection, which are a goldmine of wonderful fics. I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding something to your taste among them!

Now, on to my personal recommendations, under the read more because this got LONG.

Based on what you said you'd prefer, the fic all my dreams have come and gone a half a million times by iri_vail sounds like something you'd enjoy. It's a lovely post-canon shuangjie reconciliation fic, 10k words, with wonderful art. There's frogs too!

consider rivers by Lirazel, 9k, canon divergence fic with no war that rewrote my brain chemistry. Jiang Cheng wants Wei Wuxian to marry Jiang Yanli: lots of yunmeng trio feels, lots and lots and lots of pining.

after the sun sets by Artemis1000, 12k words, it's an amazing fic set during sunshot campaign, lots of hurt/comfort, lots of love and understanding and softness between our two favorite miscommunicators.

electricity between both of us by zyprexd is an absolutely incredible series of two fics that make me go feral. Past w4ngxian, tentative shuangjie reconciliation with long overdue communication, lots of feelings aknowledged and accepted, Wei Wuxian introspection.

Turn Back, Dull Earth by groundwiremantaray, 8k, canon divergence, a whole lot of fluff (with a delightful twist). Though not a oneshot, if you like to read happy times with chengxian, this is absolutely the fic for you.

this love that I most fear by Runespoor, 25k words divided in three chapters, in which a coreless Jiang Cheng has to aknowledge Wei Wuxian as his bastard brother in order for him to become sect leader, with all the relative implications. An angsty delight!

Little Sesame by Rurtle, which is an absolute must read. In which the summoning ritual goes wrong and Wei Wuxian reincarnates into a dog. Shenanigans ensue.

born of waters like blood by Artemis1000 (same Artemis as before) which is one of my absolute favorite fics of all time. Chengxian baby made of resentment and lake waters! Chengxian being dads! An unspecified number of eyes!!!! This fic is a bit shorter than the others I've recced, but absolutely worth reading.

letters from inside the storm by serein, in which everyone has a very bad time (not me though, I enjoyed this IMMENSELY), double whump with a very tentative reconciliation.

if tomorrow would ever come... by Midori_99, 17k, a reincarnation fic in which Wei Wuxian after his death reincarnates into a playful little fox and, despite his best efforts, finds himself once again in Lotus Pier, beside Jiang Cheng (and, really, there's no better place for him to be). The good, GOOD, cathartic angst right here, good food for the soul.

If you'd like EVEN MORE chengxian fics, my bookmarks are open and the fics are all ready to receive lots of love (and of course, if you like, there's my fics too, but they're only open to registered users)

Alright, that's definitely not all the fics I would like to rec, but that's about all I can fit in a single post before it becomes too long.

I suggest of course that you check out other works by the authors I listed, as they are all incredibly talented (and I really really wish I could put more of them here but I tried to contain myself with word count and setting as per your request)

Thank you for the ask anon, I hope you'll enjoy your stay in the chengxian side of fandom and I wish you a wonderful day!!

#mdzs #chengxian #xiancheng #yunmeng shuangjie #cql #wei wuxian #jiang cheng #the untamed #anon ask

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whumpbby · 1 month

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I'd really love to read a fic where a year past the canon ends, Lan Zhan starts to realise that his dreamed-up perfect relationship with Wei Ying isn't what he imagined it to be.

That what he got is actually a wholeass person with imperfections that will get annoying after a while, with opinions that he doesn't agree with and behaviours he's not prepared to just accept. A human person that will lie to keep him happy, that will leave when any possibility of strife approaches, that sometimes doesn't want to have sex - or that sex isn't a cure-all for their problems. That whatever Jiang Cheng experienced growing up with Wei Wuxian will fall on Wangji too, because love doesn't change you as a person in 100%, sorry.

Because that's what think will be a hurdle for him - he never was in a relationship. He never even had real human friends. Fuck, he doesn't seem to have acquaintances. All he ever had was a made-up image of a boy he knew shortly in his late teens and a sect where he was the lauded Young Master everyone respected. He can't stoically stand a kid talking back to him without a silencing spell and has difficulty expressing the most basic things in useful words. For all the soulmate talk, he didn't even know the boy he dreamed building a life with - that Wei Wuxian never existed outside of Wangji's limited glimpses of him and a lot of forgiving assumption.

Like, when will it hit him that Wei Ying is actually a complex human being that isn't just for him to care about and love, and that he himself isn't happy with some things? Will he one night wake up in cold sweat when he finally understands that the man sleeping next to him orchestrated a horiffic surgery on himself and his brother, and never indicated that he regrets it and wouldn't do it again? That the man sleeping next to him kinda-sorta just looked on as people were murdered in front of him, and didn't really have any strong opinion about being brought back via human sacrifice?

Like, discarding stiff and stifling Lan rules after being burned by them is one thing, but this is a moral quandary that goes way beyond that.

#thinking of lan zhan #wangji #mdzs #musings #wei wuxian #lan wangji

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wutheringskies · 9 months

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everyone is like: if wei wuxian told everyone he gave his core to Jiang Cheng, all of this wouldn't have happened!

me: if he told jiang cheng, it would be WORSE.

consider these points:

Jiang Cheng was a newly appointed sect leader, hell-bent on revenge, finally surpassing others. He would emotionally break if he finds out it's all because of Wei Wuxian's core. He wouldn't want to lose it; but Wei Wuxian holding that over his head will make it terrible for him; rage, tantrums; in that war-time would have literally robbed him of his senses.

This is a war. If some people find out Wei Wuxian doesn't have a core, what's stopping the enemy from finding out? Even so, there would be people who wish to kill the ever-powerful son of a servant. The hundreds-hole curse could only succeed because Jin Zixun had low cultivation. Think of how many enemies (Wens, and the others) Wei Wuxian had. They don't dare curse him because 1) they believe he has superior cultivation and 2) if he comes for revenge with his stygian tiger seal and chenqing, it simply wouldn't be worth it. So, high risk and low reward. but in actuality, if someone did curse him, without a core to cleanse him, it would be fatal!

As the "son of a servant" and "wielder of immense power," his place in the cultivation world was already unstable. If they find out he doesn't even have a core, he cannot stay in the cultivation world! If he leaves, then there's no protection guaranteed for him from those who wish to claim his power anyway!

Literally, the only ones who would genuinely care would be Lan Wangji and Jiang Yanli. And what could they do? Lan Xichen would be sympathetic, but when has sympathy saved lives when there's no follow-up action? Nie Mingjue would commend his sacrifice, but will he save the Wens? Nope. Nobody would magically go like, "oh, let us help wei wuxian who doesn't have a core tragically."

Among the general public, would anyone look at it as anything other than a grand sacrifice for his superior? "Wei Wuxian is really loyal," and when he saves the Wens, it would go down the path of, "Can't believe he betrayed the Jiang Clan."

The only one who wished to know the why's and the how's and the reasoning behind it all was Lan Wangji. Lan Wangji, who would try his utter best; but Wei Wuxian himself was so powerful. Xiao Xingchen and Song Lan were powerful. Wen Qing and Wen Ning were also powerful. All the righteous people had tragic ends - if Lan Wangji was allowed to know, he would push harder at Wei Ying. But will Wei Ying accept it? Will he feel a certain disregard of respect? A lack of trust from Lan Wangji because they dont have the fundamentals down?How can it magically make things alright, when their issues go deeper than Wei Wuxian being on an "unorthodox path"? So, who's to say, even if Lan Wangji realized it all, somehow forced himself into Wei Wuxian's space when Wei Wuxian did not want it with some OOC syndrome, but even then what can he do? In the end, rather than just one, both would die. The odds are bad when it's 1 vs 3000, but is it much better if it's 2 vs 3000?

Wei Wuxian's arrogance protected the secret that would've signed him out of the war, out of the cultivation world. The fear people had for him protected him. Even after his death, they only noticed the annihilation of minor clans because "oh no yllz is here to take revenge!" If he acted weak and approachable and sad, just how few would hold true empathy compared to all the many that would see an opportunity to strike? Whoever wields power, speaks out, and is from an unproveleged background yet sitting among the gentry is already an outcast.

The only way he wouldn't have died were if he were someone who bowed to servitude, if he kept quiet, if he counted his losses and gains like Jin Guangyao. Will this harm me? Yes. So I cannot do it.

That's not Wei Wuxian.

"Let gains and losses remain uncommented upon." If the whole world wishes to kill innocents to satiate their own hatred then the whole world is wrong, and he won't stand up for it - whether or not, he has a romantic relationship with Lan Wangji early, or if he's actual siblings with the Jiangs (like actually adopted.)

Whether he wields a sword or his flute or nothing at all; whether he's loved or hated, he is bound to be resented by those who are hypocrites. The loss of his golden core won't shake them with empathy, but mockery not just towards him, but towards Jiang Wanyin as well.

"Congratulations, Jiang Cheng, for killing the man who killed your entire family (false, but you know) and was unrighteous!"

"But isn't the Jiang Clan only alive because of Wei Wuxian's core?"

"Jiang Wanyin is such a loser; he took his servant's core."

That would be a fucking literal nightmare. That is why, Wei Wuxian doesn't say a word or whine or cry. He probably thought he could wait until Jiang clan is in a better spot and tell only Jiang Cheng, but by then, he'd already been caught up in the Wen's situation.

#mo dao zu shi #mdzs #wei wuxian #canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng #golden core transfer #golden core reveal #mdzs meta #my meta #my essays

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esoteric-oracle · 9 months

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On Life debts in MDZS

Recently finished watching Anle Zhuan, and holy crap, it really just sets even more into perspective how important life debts were in Chinese culture, especially in the days of dynasties. Long story short, the FL has a filial obligation to clear her family's name and exact vengeance on the ML's family - but you know what throws a wrench in her plans? The fact that the ML keeps saving her. Of course, this is a moral dilemma more easily offset by how she keeps saving him as well, but the fact that this is even worth mentioning and considered a serious quandary by the main character and her allies at one point really says something. And it got me thinking deeper about the implications of such life debts in MDZS.

In MDZS, life debts are immeasurably important. And how you honour that life debt is a measure of your character. When you owe someone a life debt, you owe them something immeasurably precious. In MDZS, MXTX knows that and shows it. She uses life debts to tie characters together and to drive the plot.

Life debts are the reason Wei Wuxian feels so duty-bound to the Jiang Sect and the Jiang family. They're the reason he's willing to lose an arm if it means no damage comes to his sect. They're the reason he tolerates being punished with methods beyond what's ever acceptable for a Head Disciple of a Sect. Because Jiang Fengmian saved him from living a life on the streets all those years ago, never mind that JFM himself owed Wei Wuxian's mother a life debt.

Life debts are the reason Wen Zhuliu is so blindly loyal to Wen Ruohan, committing countless atrocities in the name of the man who saved his life.

Life debts (and perhaps also genuine love), are why Jin Guangyao is so loyal to Lan Xichen. Because despite every other moral he eschews in his pursuit of power, he will always remember the sincere kindness Lan Xichen showed him when every other cultivator judged him for his heritage. And in the same way, we see Lan Xichen protecting him from Nie Mingjue under the excuse that Lan Xichen owes his life to Jin Guangyao.

Now let's talk about when life debts come into conflict with "filial duty".

It always irks me when people bring up family and filial duty to criticize WWX's "betrayal" of his sect, or try to undermine his judgement and actions when he protected the Wen Remnants. To me, it just shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the novel and the context around the text. When people call Wei Wuxian a "troublemaker" for leaving the Jiang Sect, they're falling prey to the very prejudices and classism MXTX condemned in the novel. Yes, the Wens burned down Lotus Pier. Yes, the remaining Jiang Sect would've had an obligation to go to war and exterminate the Wens. But you know what brings this duty to avenge your sect to question - in almost every way you look at it? When someone who never even participated in the bloodshed saves your life.

So, if we want to talk about filial duty and reciprocation - Jiang Cheng - and by extension, his sect, owes Wen Qing and Wen Ning a massive life debt (and that's not even considering the GC transfer). Even if we ignore the cultural context regarding debts, that's huge. Let's take a step back and look at what Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng owe the Wens.

The initial life debt. Wen Ning saves Jiang Cheng directly from probable execution (like his parents), as well as hides Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng from the Wen soldiers in his own room. In doing this, Wen Ning has already crossed the line of treason towards his own sect. Keep in mind - Wen Ruohan is his uncle. And here he is, risking his life to save two boys - only one of whom he's actually had any meaningful interaction with.

The days after. Both Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng are heavily wounded, the former from his whipping via Zidian + wounds sustained during the battle, the latter from Wen Chao's torture. In the days following, Wen Qing nurses both Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian - enemies of her clan - back to health.

The debt Jiang Cheng owes further. People need a proper send-off in order to ensure their passage to Diyu, or the Underworld - and that could only be done for JFM and YZY because WN risked his life even further to bring back the personal items (and in some adaptations, their bodies) of Jiang Cheng's parents. In simple terms, Jiang Cheng wouldn't even have Zidian if not for Wen Ning.

The golden core transfer. There are two separate components to this. The first is limited - from Jiang Cheng's perspective.

Here's what JC knows: 1. He has no core, but there is a chance he can have his core restored by Baoshan Sanren. 2. The only way Baoshan Sanren would ever agree to this is if he impersonated Wei Wuxian, the son of her beloved disciple. 3. Jiang Cheng is a sect heir; he grew up wealthy, in relative comfort. He's at the top of the food chain. Wei Wuxian, on the other hand, is an orphan. He grew up being demeaned for his heritage. In truth, he inherited nothing from his parents. But what Jiang Cheng knows is that Wei Wuxian did have an inheritance: one precious thing, the location of an immortal. And then he gives that favour-his entire inheritance-to Jiang Cheng. Wei Wuxian, at this moment, essentially hands over everything he has left of his dead parents (who Madam Yu has slandered for his entire life) to Jiang Cheng.

From Wei Wuxian's perspective, the debt is this: his close friend and heir to the Jiang Clan has no core. He believes that Jiang Cheng needs his core - as he's been displaying suicidal tendencies after losing his. However, Wen Qing has a theoretical thesis on golden core transfers. This surgery has a 50% chance of success. To the knowledge of everyone involved, Jiang Cheng consented to getting his core back by whatever means necessary. He explicitly never questioned how Baoshan Sanren would restore his golden core. Anonymous organ donors are known to be a thing, even by modern medical standards. And WWX stays awake for two nights and a day without any anesthesia as Wen Qing cuts into his body and takes something he has spent over half of his lifetime cultivating, to give to Jiang Cheng.

"He had to be awake. He had to watch the golden core connected to his spiritual pathways be peeled from his body. He had to feel the gradual suppression, sedation, settlement of his originally surging spiritual powers, all until they became a pool of dead water, unable to rise ever again."

There's definitely also a case to make about Jiang Cheng essentially sacrificing himself to lead the guards away from Wei Wuxian, but you could also argue that Wei Wuxian saved his life just a chapter earlier by dragging him away from Lotus Pier when he returned. Also, it's got nothing to do with the Wen Sibs, towards whom they both owe debts.

By this time, Wen Qing and Wen Ning have already gone above and beyond to help the Jiangs and WWX. Saving the life of the sect heir is one thing, but to perform a never-before-done borderline heretical act of surgery to restore the heir's golden core? Another thing entirely.

The moral obligation of the Jiangs and Wei Wuxian to avenge their sect by killing the Wens does come into conflict with the debts they owe the Wen siblings. But compared to slaughtering Wen Chao, and the Wen soldiers during the Sun, how far does honouring filial duty by exacting vengeance on the Wen Sect go? Wen Qing herself declares she and her brother separate from Wen Ruohan. They're healers. They don't take lives.

From every depiction in Chinese media and culture, life debts are not to be taken lightly. A life debt is meant to be honoured and repaid. It's not something any half-decent person would mention maybe briefly in a Discussion Conference and then immediately shut up about and never mention again when someone louder (*cough*NMJ) speaks up. By turning his back on Wen Qing and Wen Ning, Jiang Cheng had demonstrated a significant moral failure as well as a misunderstanding of his own sect's motto. Along with his personal reasons, Wei Wuxian has every reason to protect the Wen Remnants.

So why, people ask, is Wei Wuxian so hellbent on protecting Wen Ning, Wen Qing, and the rest of the Wen Remnants? The easiest answer: he's a good person. He's compassionate, kind-hearted, empathetic to a fault; he isn't the type of person to stand by and watch if innocents and the helpless starve or suffer. He saw and recognized that what the Jins were doing to the prisoners of war was wrong, and chose to interfere. The other answer? He owes them a debt. He owes Wen Qing and Wen Ning a debt the rest of the Jiangs don't even know about. You want to discuss it in simple terms? Wen Ning is the only reason the Jiang Sect still stands. Wen Qing is the only reason the Jiang Sect has a cultivator for a leader by the end of MDZS. She committed the equivalence of cultivation heresy to save Jiang Cheng because Wei Wuxian begged her. WWX defending her family in return is…. Really the least he could do.

I've seen people calling the Wen Remnants war criminals, even equating them to the mafia, and I can't help but think - what book were those people even reading? if you're not willing to consider the culture and values or just use basic critical thinking when consuming a piece of media - don't try to slander the actions of its characters. Anyone who read the novel and understood the intended themes would not, in good faith, condemn Wei Wuxian's decision to protect the Wen Remnants.

#mdzs #mdzs meta #life debt #wei wuxian #jiang cheng #golden core transfer #wen qing #wen ning #anle zhuan

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stiltonbasket · 9 months

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prompt for the fem!wwx au: what about the fallout of jyl's broken engagement?

On the morning of Wei Wuxian's first day back at Lotus Pier, she wakes to the sound of raised voices in the audience room.

Squinting against the light, she stumbles out of bed and opens the sliding door to the corridor outside, where she finds Jiang Cheng hovering on the threshold of his own doorway with his arms folded over his chest.

"What's wrong?" she yawns, rubbing her eyes. "Is it bad news?"

"Bad news for Mother," Jiang Cheng mutters. "Fuqin just told her about A-Jie's engagement."

Wei Wuxian feels as if someone had thrown cold water over her. In the midst of her private delight that Shijie's betrothal had ended, she had not thought of how Madam Yu would take the news: and now, both she and Jiang Cheng are about to find out.

"Did Jiang-shushu tell Auntie that I..."

Jiang Cheng shakes his head. "No. I don't think it would have made much of a difference, but Father didn't say a word."

They tiptoe across the narrow bridge between the family compound and the audience chamber, hardly daring to breathe; and then, like a firework bursting on a dark, still night, they hear Madam Yu's shrill voice rising over Jiang Fengmian's.

"Who will she marry now?" she shouts. "Ouyang-zongzhu has no children, and all the other men in the Jin clan take after Jin Guangshan. How can I let her go to Lanling without Yuyan's protection?"

"I thought perhaps Lan Xichen might—"

"I knew it. You've had your eye on him since the year Zixuan was born, but that boy will do no good to any woman as a husband!" shrieks Madam Yu. "He has had no one but Nie Mingjue in his eyes since he was a child. What will become of our daughter now, Jiang Fengmian? Zixuan was the only man who might have suited her, the only one—and now, just because he complained about the betrothal, you—"

She takes in a great, heaving breath, and Wei Wuxian hears the thud of her heeled boots striking the floor.

"And now, thanks to you," she chokes, "I will have to watch as Wei Ying marries Lan Wangji—" Wei Wuxian winces, "—and as she becomes mother to the next Lan-zongzhu, whilst my child must settle for the heir to some backwater clan in Changlun, or a commoner—"

Jiang-shushu sighs.

"If I had not broken Yanli's engagement," he says quietly, "then you would have had to watch A-Ying live as she ought to do, in comfort and plenty with a husband who cares for her dearly, while our daughter lived in a gilded prison with a man who has made no secret of the fact that the very mention of her name is a burden to him. You would have watched A-Ying's children growing up without a care in the world, and A-Ying adored by the whole of Gusu Lan as she deserves—and all the while, our daughter, who used to weep whenever she trod on an insect in the path, she—"

He sounds as if he might burst into tears. "Could you bear it, Ziyuan? Can you bear to think of A-Li's children, growing up in Koi Tower, and hearing some relation from the branch clan saying that their father would never have wed their mother if their nainai had not forced him to accept her? Can you bear to think of our granddaughters watching Zixuan treating A-Li unkindly, and entering their own wedded homes with the belief that that same unkindness was due to them?"

Yu Ziyuan falters for a moment. "Yuyan would never let Zixuan treat Yanli that way. I have often thought that she loves A-Li more than she loves him."

"Then you are a fool," Jiang Fengmian says wearily. "Quan Yuyan might be your sworn sister, but she is Jin Zixuan's mother before all else. She knows that A-Li will be filial to her husband, and her in-laws, and she knows no other maiden would make a better mother for her grandchildren. Do you truly think that she would let A-Li go, if the choice was left to her?"

"I—"

"What does it matter if Quan Yuyan can ensure that A-Li is treated well?" Jiang-shushu asks. "Jin Zixuan does not want her, and she knows it. For the love of heaven, the entire Jianghu knows it—so how could you even think of asking to A-Li waste her life with him?"

Madam Yu must have opened her mouth to say something, but Jiang Fengmian cuts her off before she can make a sound.

"It does not matter if A-Li likes him. In fact, that makes matters worse," he says brusquely. "If she marries him, she will not leave him, no matter how unhappy he might make her. And I would rather keep her here unmarried all her life than watch her in pain.

"And then there is Jin Guangshan," Jiang-shushu continues, now sounding faintly ill. "I will not speak of my fears regarding him, but you are a woman, Ziyuan. Ought you not to understand them better than I?"

Madam Yu is silent for a long while.

"If you had such thoughts," she hisses at last, sounding very much like Zidian usually does in the midst of strangling a particularly fierce yaoguai, "then you ought to have spoken sooner, so that we could have found a better match before Yanli came of age."

"I made my thoughts known the year Jin-zongzhu tried to lay his hands on Li Shuai," Jiang Fengmian replies. "You were convinced that I was wrong, because A-Shuai was too young to understand what he might have done to her; but I know what I saw, and you still refused to change your mind."

A moment later, he turns and walks out of the room. Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng exchange panicked glances before jumping off the footbridge to keep from being noticed; and after Madam Yu stalks off in the other direction, Wei Wuxian drags herself out of the shallow water under the bridge and makes a beeline for Jiang Yanli's room.

"Wait for me!" Jiang Cheng yelps, before cursing under his breath. "Wei Wuxian, for heaven's sake—"

But she does not slow her pace until she reaches her sister's bedroom and slams the door behind her, startling Jiang Yanli out of what must have been (judging by the look on her face) a very peaceful sleep.

"I'm glad you're not going to marry that stupid peacock," Wei Wuxian blurts out, the instant Jiang Yanli opens her eyes. "You deserve better, Shijie. Your husband ought to be the most honorable man in the world, and I won't stand for less."

Her sister's mouth twitches. "I'm glad you think so," she says mirthfully, reaching out to stroke Wei Wuxian's wet hair. "Who should it be, then?"

Wei Wuxian gulps.

"What about Lan Zhan?" she asks. "You could marry him instead of me, couldn't you?"

Jiang Yanli bursts out laughing.

"A-Xian," she gasps, "when we left Gusu, didn't you say that I ought to have a husband who loved me just as much as Third Shidi loves Li Shuai?"

"Well, yes."

"Then how could you possibly imagine that I might want to marry Lan Wangji?"

"But Lan Zhan is the best junzi in the world, in all ways. I'm certain of it," Wei Wuxian insists, ignoring the sudden ache in her chest. "He loves all things that are good and true, so why wouldn't he love you? I mean, he treats me well, and I make him carry my packages at the market and chase me all over Lufeng to keep dogs away while I'm running errands. I'm sure he'd treat you a hundred times better."

Her sister leans forward and rests her brow against Wei Wuxian's.

"A-Ying?"

"Hm?"

"You're a very silly girl, and I love you very much," she says tenderly. "Now go take a warm bath, or you'll catch cold."

Puzzled, Wei Wuxian drips her way out into the corridor and back into her own bedroom, where she finds a damp Jiang Cheng lying flat on his back on the rug under her window.

"No more peacock," he sighs, propping himself up on his elbows. "You know, I almost feel sorry for him."

"What? Why?"

"Because A-Jie could have made him the happiest man in the world, if he'd only given her a chance."

"I suppose so," Wei Wuxian says reluctantly. "But, Jiang Cheng—who do you suppose Shijie will marry now?"

Jiang Cheng puts his face in his hands.

"Not Lan Wangji, definitely," he mutters. "Did you really ask A-Jie if she wanted to take your place as Madam Lan?"

"Of course I did. Didn't you hear me?"

He looks at her in disbelief. "Really?"

Wei Wuxian nods.

"Lan Wangji has the patience of a bodhisattva," Jiang Cheng groans. "When it's time for your wedding, Wei Wuxian, I am going to laugh. Just wait and see."

#wangxian #the untamed #mo dao zu shi #wei wuxian #jiang yanli #jiang cheng #fem!wwx au #my fic

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lansplaining · 10 months

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does jiang cheng have a choice?

antis hate Jiang Cheng for ‘abandoning’ Wei Wuxian, but did he realistically have any other options available?

for my money, the non-negotiable goals for Jiang Cheng in this situation are

keep Wei Wuxian alive and not in the custody of another clan

ease the pressure from the other clans to take responsibility for/act against Wei Wuxian

maintain the Jiang clan’s autonomy and standing amongst the clans

and the non-negotiable goals for Wei Wuxian in this situation are

keep Jiang Cheng and the Jiang clan safe, alive, and out of the direct control of other clans (especially the Jin)

undermine Jiang Cheng’s authority as clan leader as little as possible

keep the Wen safe, alive, and free (ish-- at least as free as they are now)

continue trying to save Wen Ning/keep him ‘alive’ once he’s revived

do not reveal to anyone that he has lost his golden core

do not give anyone the Yin Tiger Tally

Wei Wuxian returning to the Jiang is off the table because he won’t leave the Wen. Wei Wuxian AND the Wen somehow coming into the custody of the Jiang isn’t possible because Jiang Cheng doesn’t have that much clout, and it’s hard to believe that Wei Wuxian would accept a situation that would necessarily have to look a lot like imprisonment for the Wen if the other clans were going to accept it. so already, the only way for Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian to both achieve some of their key goals is for Wei Wuxian to stay in the Burial Mounds with the Wen somehow-- which means the only goals remaining to both of them are ensuring that the Jiang clan doesn’t get punished for that, or placed in a situation where they’re forced to act violently against Wei Wuxian/the Burial Mounds/the Wen (and yes, obviously it comes to that eventually anyway, but a lot changes first). and canon is explicitly clear that the other clans are absolutely not about to let the Jiang off the hook for what Wei Wuxian is doing. they want and need him to turn on Wei Wuxian, and if he won’t, they don’t really care about dragging this decimated, teenager-led clan down with Wei Wuxian.

the Jiang clan has nothing at this point, barely even a home. even if the other clans were open to reaching a compromise in terms of the Wei Wuxian situation, who on earth is going to believe him if he says, I’ve got the Wei Wuxian situation handled, I’m going to leave him in the Burial Mounds and keep an eye on him, he’s my problem not yours?

and that’s the final, essential element-- Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian are not in a fair fight. the other clans are actively pushing them towards conflict, and won’t accept any outcome besides a complete break, or a complete capitulation by Wei Wuxian.

maybe I’m just not feeling creative today, but I genuinely can’t come up with a single other solution beyond the one that the two of them find and implement in canon-- a fake schism and staged fight.

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khattikeri · 22 days

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maybe a controversial opinion but while i really love jiang cheng as a character he is deeply self-centered as a person. and seeing people fight tooth and nail claiming he isn't, or is just misunderstood, or that he has genuine valid reasons to be selfish when plenty of other characters make the difficult choice to forego status and opportunities for what they believe is genuinely right to do (read: wei wuxian, wen ning, wen qing, lan wangji, jiang yanli, mianmian, etc.)

it's just odd to me. especially if they're talking about the novels.

mxtx didn't give jiang cheng the name "sandu shengshou" as a quirky coincidence. there's a REASON she named him & his sword after the 3 poisons of Buddhism (specifically ignorance, greed, and hatred). it's crucial to the story that jiang cheng is NOT selfless and that wei wuxian IS.

it's important to accept that wei wuxian is, by their society's standards, not morally gray; he represents several Buddhist ideals in direct contrast of jiang cheng and multiple people attest to wei wuxian's strong moral character, which is a lot of why jiang cheng even feels bitter about him to begin with.

it's crucial, because by the end of the novel jiang cheng realizes the extent of this and begins to let go!

the twin prides thing wasn't jiang cheng wanting them to 100% mirror the twin jades. he does care about wei wuxian, but he wanted wei wuxian to stay his right hand man, in part the way wei changze was for jiang fengmian.

and if there's one thing you can notice about wei changze in the novels, it's that literally nobody talks about him. he is only ever mentioned when his cool mysterious mountain sect wife cangse-sanren is mentioned, or (even more rarely) when they discuss him as a servant to jiang fengmian. regardless of jiang fengmian's own feelings, wei changze was considered lesser to him and didn't seem to outdo him, since nobody's out there years later still waxing poetry about wei changze's skills.

it may not be the only thing jiang cheng wants out of a twin pride dynamic, but it is a big part of it. regardless of his parents' intentions in taking wei wuxian in and treating him certain ways, this twin pride right-hand man thing is what jiang cheng has felt owed since childhood. he gave up his dogs for wei wuxian, people gossip about his sect heir position with wei wuxian there... jiang cheng wants the reciprocation of what he views as personal sacrifices.

he is ignorant to the depth of what wei wuxian must've suffered for over 6 years as a malnourished orphan child on the streets. he hates how wei wuxian's intelligence, witty charm, and cultivation abilities are naturally stronger than his own. he does care about wei wuxian a lot and want them to be together as sort of-brothers, sort of-friends, sort of-young master and sect servant...

...but if it's between that unclear (yet still caring) relationship and being able to save himself just a little bit more, jiang cheng nearly always manages to clam up in the face of danger and choose the latter, which ultimately benefits himself most. maybe it's a stretch to call that sort of thing greed, but it certainly isn't selfless.

there are of course plenty of justifications for this. it's his duty as sect heir. his home and sect was severely damaged by the wen attack and subsequent war; he had to protect himself, etc.

but doesn't that prove the point?

wei wuxian may be charming, but in terms of pure social standing, he is lower and far more susceptible to being punished or placed in harm's way by people who have more power and money. to protect wei wuxian, yunmeng jiang's long-term head disciple and semi-family member, even in the face of backlash and public scrutiny would've been the selfless thing to do. this is what wei wuxian does for the wen remnants in the burial mounds.

jiang cheng does not choose this. it's not even an unreasonable choice for him to make! nobody else in the great clans is doing such a thing, stepping out of line to take on a burden that could weaken them in the long-run. wei wuxian himself doesn't hate jiang cheng for it; he lets go of these things and focuses on what good he can do in the present.

jiang cheng thinks further into the future - what would happen to him if he continued vouching for wei wuxian and taking his side? what about jiang cheng's face, his sect's face? would wei wuxian even care to reciprocate somehow? everyone expects him to cut off wei wuxian for being dangerous, for threatening his position, for...

do you see what i mean? to call jiang cheng selfless for falling in line with exactly what people expected him to do after the war is not only wrong, it's foolish.

"but they faked their falling-out!" okay. why fake it to begin with, except to protect jiang cheng and the jiang sect's own face? is that selfless? who does it ultimately serve to protect? wei wuxian canonically internalizes the idea that he stains all that he touches, including lan wangji, and agrees to the fake fight because he doesn't want to cause the jiang sect harm. regardless, it eventually slides into a true falling-out, and in the end jiang cheng is more or less unscathed reputation-wise while wei wuxian falls.

that isn't selfless. it's many things! it's respecting his clan and his ancestors, it's making a good plan for the future of his sect and cultivation... but it isn't a truly selfless in the interest of what's right rather than in the interest of duty and what's good for him and his family lineage.

that brings me to my next point: even though wei wuxian hid the truth of the golden core transfer, jiang cheng spent nearly 20 years believing that the golden core "renewal" he was given was a birthright gift of wei wuxian's from baoshan-sanren, an immortal sect teacher of wei wuxian's mother's and a martial elder to wei wuxian.

of course we all know that's a big fat lie, but jiang cheng believed that wei wuxian gave up a critical emergency use gift to him for decades! he was lied to, yes, but jiang cheng immediately agreed without even needing to be convinced. the light in his dead eyes came back with hope the moment wei wuxian even said baoshan-sanren's name. he accepted wei wuxian's offer to give that up to him and take it via identity theft without missing a beat.

with how mysterious and revered baoshan-sanren is, that's obviously not a light sacrifice to just give up to anyone, no matter how close they might be to you. pretending to be wei wuxian to take the gift could even be considered dangerous. what if she found out and got offended? could wei wuxian be hurt by that?

jiang cheng doesn't even hesitate. wei wuxian is the one who mentions that if jiang cheng doesn't pretend to be him, the immortal master could get angry and they'd both be goners. and funnily enough, the day they do go to "the mountain", jiang cheng is the one worried and suspiciously wondering if wei wuxian was lying to him or had misremembered.

of course they've both been traumatized like hell prior to this point. but still: it speaks to how broken he was at the moment as well as to his character overall.

i digress: jiang cheng "gets his golden core back" via what he believed was a gift that should've been wei wuxian's to use in serious emergencies. rather than use it for himself, wei wuxian risked his own safety and gave it to jiang cheng... and jiang cheng still ends up embittered and angry, believing that wei wuxian is arrogant and selfish.

if he truly views them as 100% brothers and equals with no caveats, why would he think that way? it's not like he needs to grovel before wei wuxian for doing that, or to reciprocate... but this is what i mean when i say jiang cheng feels he is owed things by wei wuxian. wei wuxian's actions hold a very different weight in jiang cheng's mind, and jiang cheng himself doesn't ever act the same way, except once.

is it wrong for him to feel like he is owed something? it depends. many asian cultures, including my own, feel that a person owes their family in ways that may not make sense to westerners. for example, it's considered normal for a child to owe their parents for giving birth to them, or to other caretakers for feeding, clothing, sheltering, educating them, etc.

however, something like verbally saying "thank you" or "i'm sorry" to family is considered crazy- why would you owe that? you're supposed to inconvenience your family; saying thank you or sorry is the sort of thing you say to a stranger or acquaintance. i get half-seriously lectured by my elders on this a lot even now, even though they know such phrases are just considered good manners in the US.

this muddies up the idea of wei wuxian being jiang cheng's family vs his family's charge or servant even more. jiang cheng wants wei wuxian to be close... but ultimately doesn't really choose to use what power he DOES have to protect wei wuxian. he considers himself still owed something that in his mind wei wuxian flagrantly never repays.

this isn't even getting into how despite spending a majority of his time with the yiling patriarch he never once noticed that wei wuxian stopped using any spiritual power-based cultivation. even lan wangji, who met them far more rarely, realized that something was wrong and that wei wuxian had taken some sort of spiritual damage, hence the "come with me to gusu".

of course manpain is fun and i'm not immune to the juicy idea of them reconciling and talking things out... but jiang cheng is deeply mired in his own desire to be "above" wei wuxian in multiple ways, and doesn't realize the extent of wei wuxian's actions, the intentions behind them, and the consequences wei wuxian knowingly faced for them.

to not recognize this about jiang cheng, especially in the novels, is really revisionist if you ask me. i reiterate that i really do like him a lot. he's flawed, angry, traumatized and has poor coping mechanisms, an overall fascinating character... but he is not selfless nor ideal, and i seriously draw the line at people saying he is.

wen ning shoves this all into his face at lotus pier to disastrous results. it is the reason why jiang cheng's a total mess at guanyin temple, and the reason jiang cheng ultimately doesn't tell wei wuxian about the fact that he ran towards the wens on purpose.

for that one last act of his to have really been selfless, he needs to not seek anything in return. he did it purely because it was right to do to protect someone else. if that means wei wuxian never finds out about it, so be it.

that moment that ended up causing jiang cheng irreversible harm is not a debt that wei wuxian owes him. it hurts, but no matter how bitter it is, that realization is so important to him changing in the future.

#keri chats #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #jiang cheng #long post #this is NOT anti/crit for him btw i like him a lot i just feel like nobody interprets him the way i perceive him #which even then my interpretation is p nebulous... worth saying i also heavily disagree w ppl who think of him as an evil shithead #he's upper class & steeped in jianghu politics/self preservation. flawed as hell human being but they're all war criminals lbr it's #Magical Genocide and War Crimes: The Novel #anyway this post is messy as fuck but if u read all of it: thank u. if u agree with me: ilu. i wish more ppl understood revenge ethics #as they stand in asian cultures and history vs in western (almost always culturally christian) cultures #it's unclear how far in the future the extras are but at one pt he's ''the same as ever'' which at best indicates slow emotional growth #and like. ykw? i don't think he'll be repressed bitter angry thinking abt his losses n pain forever. i think he can grow i believe in him #i have so many thoughts on this i could've made this post go on forever augh

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