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#i know he’s almost the only thing i draw im sorry but meta’s faces are SO fun to do lmao

normal-thoughts-official · 3 years

Note

Ok so Camille’s an asshole on that we can all agree, but I’m really tired of people in the fandom acting like she’s just your typical annoying ex and she makes poor uwu Alec feel insecure cause fuck that. Camille was 100% abusive and manipulative but I also think she was sexually abusive too I mean seeing what she did to Simon and kissing Magnus without his consent even though he was clearly uncomfortable, consent doesn’t really seem to be an issue for her-

I feel like she definitely manipulated his fear of loneliness and not being good enough, to suit her needs. Like Magnus isn’t in the mood for sex or it’s especially triggering on a certain day, either way he’s not up for it but Camille makes him do it anyway. She threatens to leave or go find someone else who can fulfill her needs or take care of her when Magnus won’t, ‘I mean does he even love her when he won’t do this one simple thing for her?’

So he just lets her do what she wants, even if he’s having a full blown panic attack Camille doesn’t care or she’ll just leave insulting him saying she can’t deal with this right now and leaving Magnus with no idea when or if she’ll be back. So the next time she asks he hesitates less or initiates it more even when he’s not in the mood so she won’t leave and yeah I have a lot of emotions relating to this. and now I’m thinking about how it’ll affect his future relationships, not even talking about Alec but other people - I have this headcanon where when he got away from Camille and is healing, him ragnor and Catarina live together in ragnors cottage or somewhere away from people for awhile so Magnus can slowly heal and focus on himself and unlearn Camille’s abuse with the help of his family

But despite what this fandom says Magnus has always been a helper and a selfless person to the point of self destruction. He’s unable to prioritise his own health and he wouldn’t be able to slow down and feel the full force of the abuse he experienced cause he feels like he’ll fall apart if he does and ‘no one wants a pathetic crybaby who breaks down when someone moves their hand too fast in his direction it wasn’t even that bad he’s just exaggerating like he always does this is why Camille doesn’t love him back’ (the ‘’ parts were meant to be strikethrough to signify Magnus’ inner thoughts but that doesn’t work on asks)

And he’s scared to get in another relationship cause he doesn’t think he’d be able to speak up for himself if they turned violent or controlling, he’s scared that if they did he’d just let them so he closes himself off from people puts these walls around him and a bright smile on his face that doesn’t let anyone think there’s anything wrong. And theres so much pain going on in the world ‘they have it much worse than him anyway’ and Magnus tries to help the best he can as he always does and he’s always there for people to lean on without any reciprocation and he’s so emotionally and physically tired and he’s not sure how much longer he can take it, almost considers going back to blackfairs bridge ‘really he’d be doing the world a favour’ but theres too many bad memories and he promised his family he would try so he holds on and then he finds Raphael and that obviously doesn’t fix everything but- I was going to continue this but it’s two am in my country and honesty it’s too long already😅 sorry for the rant it’s just a lot of emotions. Im so tired of the ‘Camille’s an annoying ex who keeps getting in the way of my favourite gay ship😠’ metas and needed to let out some feelings before I explode from my hate for Camille

UGH ANON HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE NOT ONLY A GENIUS BUT ALSO MY NEW BEST FRIEND, AN INTELLECTUAL, AND COMPLETELY RIGHT. YOU ARE SO CORRECT!!! idk if uve read my other post that i posted while i was waiting for you but we no longer have the same hat we are SHARING the hat!! i can't believe i got this ask right after i had just made that long ass rant and was in so much need to talk about this like ugh are you my guardian angel. i love you more than anyone else ive ever met

ok ok ok coherent thoughts ok i can do this. first of all THE SALT how does it feel to have vision and coherency. ppl writing camille as just an annoying ex or a bad ex or even as like "oh they both made mistakes and it ended up terrible" drives me UP THE WALL. camille was explicitly abusive, so much so that magnus CANONICALLY WAS UNABLE TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO GET CLOSE TO HIM FOR ALMOST A CENTURY. and she was shown to be abusive, both in the physical sense as you have reminded us so brilliantly and in the sense that her whole "choose me" speech? like she doesn't have to literally say the words "no one but me would ever love you" for that to be exactly what she's saying. she's obviously playing with his insecurities and putting him down while presenting her as his savior, it's CLASSIC ABUSE. she was written as such a perfect to-the-book abuser that it honestly shocks me like they did that really all they ticked all the boxes. the way she immediately launched to talk about alec's mortality too, the way she was obviously trying to make them fight and draw them apart - it wasn't a jealousy thing, it is just that she's abusive and she wants him isolated so she can toy with him and manipulate him

EVEN SALTIER WHEN THEY MAKE IT ABOUT ALEC BEING INSECURE LIKE. especially because canonically he literally watched camille kiss magnus and didn't care, which was sexy of him because i was dreading some jealousy drama or something but instead he was just like. obviously she did it to hurt you. i only care in the sense that she's a fucking bitch. we stan!

as for how she treated him! oof i think the same thing with the same words dioajdsaoij it always circled back to "why can't you do this for me?" in and outside of sex - i mentioned that in a conversation in the comments of my other post but i think that with camille the sexual abuse was really just an extension of the regular abuse, so they bleed together and are not really separable in that sense. at every turn, he had to prove his worth, and she used his fear of loneliness both in the sense that she amplified it and made it seem like the only way to not be lonely was to be with her, and that she gave him just enough for him not to feel desperately lonely so she could string him along. not to mention, they both always go back to how magnus supposedly "owes" her, and yes, it's because of the bridge, of course, but there's also that underlying tone of "because she put up with him and gave him affection when no one else would". even when what she did was nowhere close to real affection. so it's both the bridge and the after. she could have saved him and left, but she stayed. that's why he feels he owes her, and she will absolutely use it

AND UR SO RIGHT ABOUT MAGNUS BEING UNABLE TO PRIORITIZE HIS OWN HEALTH UGH UGH UGH UGH like he has no choice for a while because she left him fucking broken and seeing the way she treats him and the amount of shit he puts up with i can only imagine how far she had to go for him to reach a breaking point and leave her for real. but as soon as he could pretend to have himself together he just threw himself out there. and i believe that he felt guilty for having catarina and ragnor take care of him when he abandoned them because of camille - obviously that's not what happened, she manipulated him into staying away from them, made his life hell whenever he wanted to hang out with them until he no longer had the energy to put up a fight to keep in contact with the people he loves, but it's what he feels that happened, and most likely what camille herself eventually started to tell him happened once they had been pulled away enough. ("you're gonna leave me? and go back to who? your little friends who tried to pit you against me from day one? they're just gonna say 'i told you so', magnus. and why would they take you back when you left them before? when was the last time you even saw them? you chose this, you chose me, and now you're gonna come back to them and expect them to welcome you with open arms? you selfish little prick")

AND RAPHAEL!!! raphael was so important, honestly, we say that magnus didn't let anyone into his heart but obviously raphael was the exception and EXTREMELY important for his healing. it's a complicated relationship because he's sort of a father figure for rapha, and as such, he doesn't allow himself to be completely vulnerable around him, because that's not "his role". but! he was the first person whom magnus let in. and they obviously know each other deeply ("i hate to see you like this" even though magnus looked completely put together to the outside eye) and are plenty affectionate ("sweet boy", the hugs, the way rapha talked about magnus with so much love and awe in his eyes and voice) and trusting (the way raphael went to magnus' loft, not his own damn clan, when he was tortured...). i know this fandom likes to pretend that they pretend to hate each other but NO THEY DON'T they are openly caring and loving with each other fucking fight me on this

anyway, my point is that raphael was the first person he allowed himself to trust, and of course, part of that is simply because raphael was vulnerable and in need and like you said he can't just stay still when he sees someone struggling. but to care for raphael eventually had to mean to open up to him and when he welcomed raphael in, he gained a new member to his family. raphael is his kid. that's no small thing. their bond goes deep and it's extremely important because again, after camille magnus wouldn't allow people to get close to his heart, because he was scared of how they could use that against him. raphael was his first, and the only reason magnus was able to open himself up for romantic love again (which was an extra step, not because romantic love is more important or deeper, but because it's specifically the kind of love that camille used against him, and thus it makes him even more scared) was because he had already been relearning trust and platonic love with rapha

rapha did him good!!! there's a reason he calls him "sweet boy" okay. and rapha cares about him and he NOTICES WHEN HE'S IN A BAD SHAPE EVEN THROUGH ALL OF MAGNUS' WALLS and he specifically didn't want magnus involved with the camille drama even when it had obviously gotten out of hand because he wanted to keep him safe and away from her!!! i want to be shot in the face!!! they love each other so much! fuck!

and also that implies that raphael knows about camille which means he might be the first person who met magnus post-camille and heard the story, which means that he might be (and probably is) the first person who was never involved that magnus opened up about this to. if that ain't some powerful and important shit i don't know what is. because part of abuse is that you can't talk about it - there's this sense of shame and guilt both from staying and from not staying more, especially because magnus canonically still feels like he owes her... aaaaa

this answer is all over the place im sorry but my point is you are correct, camille is a textbook abuser not just a shitty ex, she fucked up his head and made him unable to open up for a long time, and the first person that helped him break those walls was raphael and they LOVE EACH OTHER VERY MUCH AND DEEPLY thank you for your attention

#magnus bane #shadowhunters #sh #meta #magnus bane meta #camille belcourt is an abuser #long post #ask #anonymous #camille's trash party #brotp: i'll do whatever it takes to protect them

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pumpkinpaix · 5 years

Note

老师好！Thank you for writing! i found you through your MDZS story and i really adore your insightful writings about the show. In my opinion, i even think the show is better than the novel in their presentation of WX relationship ~ ! it feels more natural and less pandering. Another essay suggestion for you if you want to write --- In the show, who do you think fell in love first in WX? When were the "turning points" when they realized?

sldjfslikl first of all anon, it’s WILD that anyone would address me as 老师 and i’m simultaneously flattered and gobsmacked. (i’m really really really not qualified to be called 老师 friend—thank you, like, a lot?? but yeah, i gotta say i’m not that cool) thank you for reading my fic and liking it and apparently my one meta enough to come talk to me!! also, SORRY this took approximately a million years i’ve been working on it on/off for like. two weeks. (@the other anon who also requested meta—pls forgive me im really doing my best apparently these take a lot out of me)

confession: I wrote a WHOLE ADDITIONAL essay in response to your opinion about show vs. novel that i ultimately decided to cut because it flies a little too close to the discourse sun and you didn’t ask for that hahaha. if it turns out you are interested in it, feel free to hmu and i can post it (though i’ll probably try to keep it out of the tags for my own mental health’s sake im not cut out for this lmao)

that all being said, who do I think fell in love first? it was definitely lan wangji, and it was right here:

[id: screenshot of lan wangji watching wei wuxian making a wish to “protect the weak and curb the strong, with a clear conscience for all my life” from episode 7 of the untamed drama. wei wuxian’s eyes are closed, his hands clasped. lan wangji looks on with a surprised tenderness. /end id]

I think it’s safe to say that he already finds wei wuxian attractive/intriguing (see: his reaction to wei wuxian drawing his portrait, tying the lan ribbon around their wrists, the PEAK gay panic in his voice when wei wuxian trips and falls on top of him), but this is the first moment he’s really moved by him. up until this point, wei wuxian has been teasing, immature, A Nuisance™, too clever for his own good, troublemaker energy personified etc but he hasn’t ever revealed his deeper moral values in front of lan wangji—and he does it like this, without pretension, without irony. He doesn’t spend his wish on something frivolous or material: he wishes to be able to do good for all his life, to be righteous, to be kind. it’s the wish he makes for both of them. “the promise we made together all those years ago,” as he says, half a lifetime later.

like just. imagine, for a moment, being lan wangji, whose whole world is being constantly challenged and needled by this unfairly attractive, chaotic bastard and then he just comes out of left field with this. I think this is where lan wangji first recognizes himself in wei wuxian—that at their core, they share their most important values.

look what i’m saying is this is where I fell in love with wei wuxian.

(sidenote: I really think a lot of the tragedy of mdzs/the untamed is stems from this moment. wei wuxian fails, over and over and over, even when his wish never changes, even when all he ever wanted was to do good without fear.)

i had to think for a really long time to try and decide which moments i wanted to talk about on wei wuxian’s part, because i don’t think he’s nearly as easy to pinpoint. lan wangji falls in love like a lightning strike, but wei wuxian’s love is something that grows so slowly, i don’t think he realizes what it is until pretty late in the game.

so let’s begin with this moment on phoenix mountain:

[id: screenshot of lan wangji and wei wuxian facing each other on phoenix mountain from episode 25 of the untamed drama. lan wangji is waiting expectantly for an answer, having just asked, “what am i to you?”, hand behind his back. wei wuxian is holding his flute, expression complicated and uncertain. /end id]

this is the first time i think wei wuxian is asked directly to label his feelings about lan wangji, and he says, “i once thought of you as a lifelong, intimate friend.” and when lan wangji presses, “and now?”, he doesn’t respond.

two episodes later, when wei wuxian is taking the wen refugees out of their prison camp and lan wangji appears before him, I think he has some kind of answer to lan wangji’s question:

[id: screenshot from episode 27 of the untamed drama. wei wuxian holds out chenqing before him in challenge to lan wangji, who is offscreen. he is smiling, just slightly, resigned and fond and terribly sad. /end id]

“if there really must be a battle between me and them, then I would rather fight to the death with you. if i must die, then at least i would like to die by hanguang-jun’s hand. it wouldn’t be an injustice.”

if that isn’t some kind of confession, I don’t really know what is.

but it’s too late—he’s now a defector in the eyes of the four sects. lan wangji lets him go and wei wuxian rides away. the remainder of his first life, that’s how things stand. even through everything with a’yuan, the final massacre at the nightless city—even though there’s something really meaningful there between them, it’s all tinged with a sense of impossibility, you know? there’s no outcome where they can resolve it happily. wei wuxian has gone too far down that single-plank bridge.

the first moment i think wei wuxian has to confront the unresolved and unsaid things between him and lan wangji comes when lan wangji gets drunk that one night and tells him, “i have regret.”

“what regret?”

“that at the nightless city, I did not stand beside you.”

[id: screenshot of wei wuxian looking at lan wangji (offscreen) with tears in his eyes as the full realization of what lan wangji just drunkenly confessed hits him from episode 36 of the untamed drama. /end id]

“so all this time, you’ve been searching for me?”

earlier i said can you imagine being lan wangji for a sec, and i’m gonna say it again except god. can you. IMAGINE being wei wuxian in this moment. finding out that this person that you maybe suspected you had deeper feelings for but never acted on has spent the entire sixteen years of your death searching for you, regretting that he didn’t stand with you before you died? a regret that he’s been carrying in secret, alone, for sixteen years?? that’s A Lot to unpack.

however, I don’t think wei wuxian really, fully understands and accepts how he feels and how lan wangji feels in return, how far they’re both willing to go until episode 42, at the confrontation at jinlingtai.

[id: two screenshots from episode 42 of the untamed drama, right after lan wangji takes a stand beside wei wuxian against the four sects. image 1 is lan wangji smiling at wei wuxian: he is gentle and sure. image 2 is wei wuxian smiling back at him, eyes red-rimmed and wet. /end id]

even though lan wangji has been walking with him since dafan shan, he’s been doing it with a plausible deniability. and here, when wei wuxian is trying to give him an out, lan wangji puts everything he has on the line so that he can clearly stand with wei wuxian, without dissembling, without hesitation. “the feeling of of walking on a single-plank bridge into the dark truly is no worse.”

lan wangji is finished with regrets.

“it’s just funny, that’s all,” wei wuxian says, “back when the whole world flattered me with praise, you were the only one who would scold me. but now that everyone is calling for my death, all hating and condemning me, you’re nevertheless the only one standing by my side.”

i think after that, for all the remaining episodes, there’s an unspoken commitment between the two of them that underpins the rest of their interactions, which I think I can say without reservation that I like more than how it played out in the novel. EDIT 16 APR 2020: I changed my mind a while ago, ahaha. Turns out, I don’t prefer CQL over MDZS. I love them both so much. ;A; there’s something really profound about it, the trust in their unlabelled relationship. it really feels like the inexorable culmination of two adults in their mid-thirties coming together after falling in love for almost twenty years. there’s a maturity to it that isn’t present in the way the novel does the confession (which does have its own disaster energy™ charm) that I think highlights the fact that they love each other, not just because they admire each other, not just because they’re attracted to one another, but because they understand each other—because when they look at each other, they also see themselves.

#the untamed #the untamed meta #mdzs #mdzs meta #wangxian #陈情令 #mine #meta #mymeta #can i get a wahoo for the production team?#WOOF anon thanks for your patience #some of the wording in this is really embarrassing haha #i did my best!!#i hope some people like it #i also spent WAY too long on this #guys i edit every screenshot i'm not kidding #as always feel free to come talk to me about this #Anonymous #asks and replies

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drangues · 3 years

Note

I’m really only energetic if you get me super worked up and excited and even then I’m pretty subdued??? Physically speaking, I’m just not that excitable, I guess. So of course I take an hour to fall asleep. And Kenji and Kyouka are so sweet,,, I love them. Bet they call each other Sunflower and Snowdrop. Anyways YES yes I do, your drawings are very nice and they often give me ideas. The way you draw Atsushi especially,,, he be a cutie. (Nyanon, 1/6)

I’m sorry you’re having a hard time, though!!! If it makes you feel better, I’m happy to say that I, and many others, love your art. fhekdijnwijc I’ll take your word for iiittt but I’m still very keysmashy you know??? But anyways I could see that!!! Oda finds his kids and he’s Very Relieved to see them so of course when he’s told (by his kids, because Atsushi is very shy and. Probably wouldn’t wanna insert himself into a reunion? (Nyanon, 2/6)

Or he’d just think he was a bother) that this raggedy little catboy saved them he probably. Immediately scoops him into a hug and thanks him and Atsushi hasn’t had anyone be Nice to him??? So he’s very much a living question mark, and then Oda insists on taking care of him when he discovers he’s an orphan and he’s an Even Bigger question mark? Where’s the pain??? Is Oda gonna hurt him? Why is he getting so much food. (Nyanon, 3/6)

He expresses as much to Oda and suddenly the man is experiencing the emotion of Murder. But, like you said, after his kids almost die (thanks to Mori, and I have full faith that Dazai would figure that out and tell Oda as much), Oda knows he has to Leave, so he decides to snag Atsushi and Dazai while he goes and get justice for his New Kid in the legal way, via judicious use of Ango (I. Maybe or may not ship Oda/Ango. Just a bit). I just want good things for this AU. (Nyanon, 4/6)

As for the ADA being content creators- I don’t know why but it’s sending me tooo, I feel like Atsushi and Kunikida would definitely be writers??? Dazai and Ranpo probably do meta and analytical pieces and also memes, while Kyouka and Fukuzawa both make fan art. I don’t know the idea just feels very nice, I love them all. Moving on to a Dazatsu Concept, though: I’m in a soft mood, so consider Dazatsu gushing to others about each other,, Like? (Nyanon, 5/6)

Dazai is staking out with Kunikida and he won’t shut up about how gorgeous Atsushi’s eyes are. Atsushi is taking Kyouka shopping and can’t stop rambling and how soft Dazai’s hair is. They keep looking at the sunset and talking about how it reminds them of their boyfriend. I love them. (Nyanon, 6/6)

sunflower and snowdrop,,,no,,,im F I N E. atsushi is a whole ass cutie so ofc im gonna try my best to show that in my art, if i cant show his cute ass then i have Failed as an artist

“ragedy catboy” is such a cute description man ill forever use it .and Y E S ODA BEING THE FIRST TO EVER HUG ATSUSHI MAKES ME S O SAD BUT GOD DOES HE DESERVE IT, oda would be SO protective (and honestly,,i lowkey ship oda/ango as well ngl)

i agree with everything but fukuzawa doing fanart is both endearing and sending me, wouldnt it be even funnier if like, kyouka makes those very symbolic paintings that look like they belong in a museum while fukuzawa probably draws kittens having hats as flowers (thats probably how fukuzawa and kyouka bonded, kyouka loved his kittens in flower hats)

oh my goDDDD THEM GUSHING ABOUT EACH OTHER IS THE CUTEST THING EV E R ATSUSHI WOULD BE SO EMBARRASSED IF HE GOT EXPOSED THO BUT WHILE HIDING HIS FACE HE WOULD BE LIKE “it i s soft though” AND THEYRE BOTH BLUSHING MESSES IM JUST- WOW <33

#anon #ask #ask anon #anon ask #bsd #nyanon #nyatsushi anon

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gigis-ff-blog · 4 years

Text

Hey might as well.

A Little Slice Dreams: The Meta Knights Play a Fun Game of Uno

What could go wrong? Those poor knights asked themselves this question as if nothing could.

But Everything. Everything could, will, would, and did absoluteley go wrong.

They sat around a giant round table in the lounge of the Halberd, soaring at least 200 feet above sea level. The night was cold, crisp, and dark. Sword, Blade, Captain Vul, and Sailor Dee sat on one end of the table. Across from them were the four main Meta knights: Axe, Javelin, Mace, and Trident.

Sailor and Mace were determined in their craft. It was down to one of them in their anxious, sweat driving game. The winner would receive a delectable frozen trophy. The looser would have to watch in tears as the winner took the glory.

It was down to two cards for each player. But it was Sailor's turn. The fee slammed down a turn skip card And gave a sickening grin at Javelin.

"No...NO!" Mace shivered in his seat.

Sailor started cackling as they held up their last remaining card.

"I hope you have good cards looser!" Shouted Sword, while Blade babbled in an incomprehensible accent, basicly stating the same thing.

"This is too much! I think im gonna drop dead!" Axe flailed around the table.

"I think you and Mace gonna have simultaneous strokes after this." Javelin said in their robotic tone.

Yeah your screwed, signed Trident.

"I'll be right back I'm gonna go get the reward for Sailor." Vul stated in an almost certain tone.

Sailor ceased their cackling and drew a deadly glare at Mace. As if their eyes shot daggers through Mace's soul.

"Uno..."

Sailor slammed a draw four on the table, prompting Mace to dramaticly scream "no" and cry, slamming his fists on the table.

"I-I was so c-c-close...WAAHHHH!"

"You challenged Sailor in uno. You knew what grave you were digging yourself into," Axe said, "and speaking of digging into things!"

Vul brought out Sailor's reward. An ice cream parfait stacked a mile high, dripping with fudge and marshmallow coating. The frozen Vanilla custard sat delicately above the hot brownies under it, and under that, the crunchy crumbs of canoli crust. Chocolate decoration perched itself on top of the display like a fine peice of jewelry. The reward was perfect in every way. Fitting for a satisfyingly sweet victory in an uno game.

Mace continued to cry as Vul handed Sailor the ice cream. As the glass was handed to them, Sailor's eyes lit up.

"Thank ye Captain!" They elongated every vowel in appreciation for their edible trophy.

"I'd say you earned it, 'Sir Uno champion Sailor Waddle Dee.'" Vul spoke to Sailor but looked at Mace as he continued to weap at his loss.

Blade and Sword cheared on Sailor as they scarfed down the whole desert like Kirby inhales a whole feast, while Tident, and Axe sighed in second hand defeat and consulted Mace as he sobbed. Javelin cheared on Sailor as well.

"WOOO! GO SAILOR!"

"H-H-Hey! Y-Your supposed to be rooting for m-m-me. Sniff."

"You didn't win."

As Sailor finished the dish. They realized they left the chocolate decorations for last. They thought that this would be such a great time to rub it in Mace's face that he lost with the chocolate.

"Hey Mace."

"H-huh?"

"Look."

Mace thought he knew what was going on. "YOU WERE THE NICE ONE DON'T TOURTURE ME LIKE THIS!"

"Here." Sailor gave the knight a chocolate decoration. "For you, because ye played good."

Mace's eyes lit up. "R-really?" He stifled a sniff. "For me?"

"Yeah. For you."

"Oh your too kind. I..."

As Mace took the chocolate, a hint of fear went into his eyes. The symbol on it sent a chill down his spine.

"Vul..."

"Yes Mace?"

"Which freezer did you get this ice cream out of."

"Why the one in the lounge of course"

"The mini blue freezer or the big silver freezer?"

"The mini blue one with all of bosses ice creEAAM OH SWEET NECRODEUS WHAT HAVE I DONE?"

Blade turned sharp to Vul and panicked, falling backwards into an incomprehensible blabber.

Sword shook. "THATS BOSS'S ICE CREAM FRIDGE!"

"You stole Meta Knight's ice cream?" Cried Javelin.

Trident signed an oh no in shaking paws.

"We're all gonna be dead by dawn in our stone graves! And the writings gonna say we died cold and chocolatey!" Axe shouted.

"He's gonna kill me the most I ate the damn thing!" Sailor squealed and almost started to cry. They sweated up a storm in their anxiety.

Vul attempted to be reassuring. "He will not kill us for one mess up." The captain wasn't to sure of this. "I'm sure everything is going to be-"

A door slammed open to reveal an enraged pair of golden-red eyes and a maskless, meta knight wearing them, and pink bunny slippers and a fluffy robe.

"Who..."

"Oh no."

"WHO!"

The shout sent echoes through the room. Cracks formed on the floors, walls and cealing. Some of them went tumbling into the hallway, others flew out of their seats. The glass that contained the ice cream hit the floor and shattered into a million pieces like a golden glass mirror.

Sword, like everyone else, was horrified of consequence. He jumped up on the table, cupped his hands over his mouth and yelled "SCATTER!" As though it were some kind of party with alcohol and the police just got there.

Everyone ran in different directions. Sword and Blade searched for hiding places, Mace and Javelin jumped to the ceiling. Trident and Axe tried to break a window so that they could fall into the orange watters below. Vul and Sailor darted into the hallways, not looking back to the flapping sounds that echoed through the battleship.

Sailor took a sharp left and shakingly pulled out a phone from their hat. They searched through their contacts to find people that could save them from whatever punishment they would face.

Kirby was unavailable, probably sleeping. Bandee was also probably sleeping. Or training at three am like an insane person for that smash bros invitation. Dedede was the only person that picked up. In the background you could hear some trash comedy in the most of a clear crunching of popcorn.

"Yo."

Sailor spoke in a hushed yet anxious tone. "Sir, ye gotta get over here and help I think we're gonna die!"

"Did you steal his ice cream?" A crunch was heard clearly.

"It was an accident we were just-"

Vul's scream came blasting through the halls.

Sailor had a mild panic attack. "OH SHIT! CAPTAIN!"

The phone dropped to the floor and rattled. Dedede, on his end, looked at the phone with utter confusion and hung up.

Vul was backed into a corner by the furious borb, spoon in one paw.

"Do you know how long it took me to make that? THREE DAYS!"

Vul took hold of a nearby pipe and found to it for dear life. Eyes wide fearing death.

"I was saving that for today specificly! I was going to watch Mama Mia!

"Oh God sir I'm sorry!"

"Sorry doesn't give me back my ice cream Vul!"

"WAIT!"

Sailor came running out of the halls and in front of Vul to protect him.

"It was an accident sir. We were just playin a game and he grabbed the wrong ice cream. Don't hurt em!"

"Why... would I hurt anyone...I'm just angry."

"You look like you're gonna f%#king kill someone!"

Vul stepped out of his "gripping onto the pole for dear life" position just to scold Sailor for swearing. "Hey! What did we talk about?"

"Oops. Sorry." They turned back to Meta Knight.

"I... apologise if I seem a little harsh. It's wrong to terrify someone in the middle of the night over something so minuscule." Meta knight held his paw out for Vul to shake."Is all forgiven?"

Vul was more than relieved. "Absoluteley sir!"

Meta knight looked at the bird andd produced a laugh, but in the middle of it they stated most seriously that "You owe me another bowl." This didn't ease the captain's fear.

"We still have the ice cream we didn't eat in oyur fridge," Sailor stated, "you can have that."

Meta Knight turned. "What flavor is it?"

"Vanilla with chocolate and marshmallow swirl."

"I'll take it...but..."

Sailor was confused. "But what?"

"Due to my outburst I would find it fair that I would have to earn the desert, rather than just taking it. Besides, I'm DVRing the movie so I can watch it later."

"Wait wait wait. Earn it how?" The captain let go of Meta's hand and looked down at the small, Kirby esque orb.

"I'm thinking...Uno?"

Sailor's eyes sparkled. "Now that's a chalanged! You're on!"

#kirby #waddle dee #Meta knight #the meta knights #king Dedede #let's see how this one goes #then I'll post the second chapter #please read and comment #feedback is always appreciated #hope yall like it #:)

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bunny-banana · 4 years

Note

For the director's cut thing, the story where Fabri asks Ermal out on a date but Ermal doesn't realize that? 👀

YO SO WE GONNA DO THAT OR WHAT

Its this fic btw if anyones curious.

Chap 1

Even with closed eyes, he sensed the man lying next to him turn towards him but Fabrizio did not spoke immediately. No, he just stayed silent for a bit, Ermal wasn’t quite sure what he was observing but before Ermal could ask, Fabrizio broke the silence.

its u. he’s gazing at u, u idiot.

’You didn’t exactly give off the vibe that you’d say yes’

“What the fuck does that even mean? I don’t give off the vibe?!��

mr no-homo meta has NO right to be surprised at that. boy went into a panic attack every time someone as much as breathed the suggestion ofc fab was Anxious

A certain Roman showing up at his doorstep looking like he’d belong to the Milan Fashion Week.A tight grey shirt whose top three buttons almost begged to be opened (yet remained miraculously, in Fabris case, closed!) clung nicely to the body underneath it. A very fine silver chain hung around his neck that perfectly fit with the rings and the watch on his hand.Instead of ripped denim, now tight & shiny dark jeans were worn and to round this look up, an impeccably tailored black, suit jacket was thrown over him.

so not to be Hoe on main but we all just love Sexy Fab. but more so, i really thought Fabrizio would have put a lot of effort into dressing nicely this time around. Probably called a few friends, crying to help him. He just wanted Ermal to like his look. Which he did. A lot. again, outstanding heterosexual of the year, ermal meta is completely mesmerised by that look.

“Well, well, Fab. Gotta say, this place is on a whole different level“ The curly haired man commented as he flipped through the menu.“You like it?”“How could I not?”

again, Fabrizio intentionally looking up a fancy place for their Date, something he actually felt a little bit uncomfortable about himself and wouldnt normally chose for himself. But then again, he was greatly relieved when Ermal actually did say he liked it.

*It felt.. nice. The whole evening was quite nice, Ermal had to admit, even with the unusual ambient.

Ermal is just honestly iconic in this fic. man enjoys fabrizios appearance, enjoys talking with him, eating out with him, just spending time with him in general sooo much……and yet.

Fabrizio tilted his head and was it the candle light or something else, but a intriguing shine filled his eyes.“I’d know something sweeter than this.” In the next moment, everything turned upside down when Fabrizio suddenly took his hand and intertwined their fingers, his thumb gently brushing over the back of the younger man’s hand.

THE COURAGE THIS TOOK. THE NERVES WHICH WERE WRECKED. Fab really just went “ok here we go balls to the wall now or never”

Chap2

“So, Fabrizio….Fabrizio likes me. Apparently.” It felt interesting to say it out loud. Ermal got a tingly feeling at the thought. So ..it was him who made Fabrizio blush earlier? Who made him nervous? And smiley? Christ, he actually really wanted Ermal to like his outfit, didn’t he? A small smirk found its way on Ermal’s face. Who would have thought that he’d have Fabrizio Moro of all people wrapped around his finger.

erm: so im het

also erm: wow i really really like the fact that fabrizio is into me. its actually super exciting. kinda makes me happy in a way.

“Wait, what?! I should ask him out?!”“Yeah? Isn’t that something you want?”Is that something he- But that would imply that he’d want to pursue Fabrizio, his very male, masculine, manly friend Fabrizio who was definitely not by any chance a woman. To have a relationship with guy that was …..romantic… and oh sweet Mother of God, sexual?!“I- I- I don’t know.”

so yeah, to get to the bottom of this, when you’re in the process of realising your own …..non-heterosexuality, its just A Lot to take in. I thought, realistically, that would just be a bit too much for Ermal to take in at that moment. He had to process the mere thought of “yes, you could have a romantic relationship with this guy, since he’s into you. Its absolutely a possibility”. When you’re conditioned to think “i can only ever date people of the opposite sex” all your life, it takes a bit of time to get accustomed to new possibilities.

And then theres the sexual aspect which is like, on Jupiter, for Ermal’s current state of mind.

Chap3

The video he currently was immersed in showed a slow-mo fight between a mongoose and a cobra that in all its intensity outdid any action movie in a heartbeat.

i remember watching that vid before writing that chapter and being mesmerised by it. u fucking go lil mongoose!

[Bizio]: sorry i cant this weekend

First, i just love the thought of him being saved as Bizio on Ermals phone. Second, the reason why he replied so late was because he was wrecking his mind about it. Should he go? should he not? god, the thought of seeing ermal excited him and yet scared him. nonononno. he’s trying to get Over Ermal. He needs space. he is not ready yet.

[Ermal]:Fabri!! Heard you’re coming up North! 😁 I have this excellent bottle of wine that a fan gave me the other day (don’t ask) so how about we open it at my place? I know you love a good wine 😉🍷

He couldn’t even slide the phone back into his pocket before it started buzzing. Surprisingly, the reply came almost instantly this time.[Bizio]:sorry no the schedule is pretty tight for me at the moment i dont think ill have much time in milan

i just image him getting the weirdest fucking fan gifts. also lmao the lightning speed with which fab replied. homeboy saw that wine would be involved and imemdiately thought “nononononono. worst case, my drunk ass might kiss him, god forbid. we are absolutely not gonna do that”

[Ermal]:So I’m flipping through the channels at home and there comes a baking show and I wouldn’t normally stop to watch but you know what they’re baking? Those creamy pastry things we had in Lisbon!

Now the idea about the Pasteis de Nata stemms from a real life event! During ESC 2018 i slept at a friends house and since the contest was held in Portugal we decided to cook something portuguese. Thats what we did. They fucking slap. Also, one of the best weekends ive ever had

However, this is how things continued as to all of Ermal’s messages, he’d receive rather uncharacteristically short replies. When he sent him photos he’d often not reply at all and even when he called Fabri didn’t pick.

Okay we have to image in WHAT kinda mental state Fabrizio is in that time. Boy is EMBARASSED to death. Then obviously, he is trying his hardest to get rid of this crush. So he just isnt talking to Ermal at all. Which in turn makes him lonely and sad. So then Ermal shoots him a message, sends him a picture and Fabrizio is immediately head over heels again. Which he shouldnt be. Bad Fabri. And the circle repeats itself.

Fabrizio who smiled sweetly at the host, who hugged her tightly, who joked with her and oh, whose eyes didn’t stick to her face but wandered more and more south.

Dude honestly, Fab was not flirting with anyone. He was just being nice as he usually is. And we all know he a lil bit sleazy so yeah, he might have looked down once or twice. but he really was not flirting. It was just Ermals affection-deprived mind going berserk.

Also that was the first time Ermal witnessed Fabrizio being affectionate with someone else. And the contrast to that cold shoulder he received was just the last straw for him.

“Why is he all smiley and lovey-dovey with her while he treats me as if I’m a war criminal?!” Ermal shouted the second the other line got picked up.“Uhm, hello? Maybe a ‘Good morning’ first of all? A simple ‘how are you doing, Sabina?’ would have been appreciated too.”

Damn bitch can ya greet ur sister first before going off smh

And would it have been really that bad if Ermal had just held on to his hand? Let Fabrizio gently stroke him with his thumb, maybe even squeeze back while Ermal’s finger draws circles over letters that covered the older man’s knuckles.It would have been nice and Ermal would have liked it.

I think he just needed to see what he was missing out to realise what he really has always wanted. If things were to go back to normal, he would have never made any realisations.

“Am I- Do I like Fabrizio?”

No, we dont ask what he is. Because thats for another time, a calmer time. Or maybe not at all. He doesnt know the answer to that question and its not important right now. All he knows is that despite it all, he likes Fabrizio.

The fact he was a guy was new, but those feelings involved weren’t.

I feel like this is just a very bisexual experience. At least to me it was. Its very confusing when u are genuinely attracted to the opposite sex, so you make the conclusion: you are obviously straight. Its not possibly that you are not-straight.

Then u start feeling attraction to someone of ur own gender and its like “hmmm. Obviously this must be fake since we have established that Im genuinely attracted to the opposite sex ”

But the thing is..it aint going away. And then u think how you’d perhaps be down for sex, and perhaps be down for something more, and perhaps do all those nice things you would be doing with someone of the opposite sex.

So yeah, its ..its really confusing and complicated to figure it out. And if you actually do have a feelings for someone it only makes matters more complicated ig

“Jesus, I really do like him. Me. Liking a guy.”

Again, once u made That Realisation, its just the WILDEST thing in the beginning. a complete NEW concept being applied to yourself.

“LISTEN CUT THE BULLSHIT I KNOW EXACTLY THAT YOU’RE HOME! OPEN UP OR I WILL STAND HERE ALL NIGHT I’M NOT FUCKING AROUND!” In addition to the knocking he now also started ringing the doorbell. He sure as hell wouldn’t move here until that door wasn’t opened.“I DONT GIVE A FUCK, I WON’T EVEN SLEEP AND NEITHER WILL YOU. I CAN GO ON FOREVER YOU HEAR ME, FABRIZIO MOBRICI?!”

Ermal is just unhinged in all my fics.

Epilogue

[Ermal💛]: You ready?

Fabrizio added that heart right immediately after Ermal left his house a week prior.

Ermal looked….cuddly.

So yeah we all know Fab isnt the keenest on fashion and shit. And i just though Ermal would want him to be as comfortable as possible on their date, so he was like “ay come casual” . and also, its sort of cute that Ermal lets Fabri see him so casual too, its sort of more private in that sense.

And those were still the mild surprises, let’s not start with the downright shock he felt when his brain started providing words like kissable, attractive, sexy and hot during lonelier nights.

i have a fic for those kinda nights too

“It’s not that far and God knows men your age need the exercise anyway.”

ermal just cant show affection like a normal person, he has to roast u even when he’s madly in love with u

What followed behind the colourful door was a small chaos. Literally. People constantly coming and going, with buzzing voices chatting in every corner. They made their way half through the rather crowded establishment, got greeted by a waiter who rushed past them, before they finally spotted a couple leaving, liberating two chairs for them.

SO YEAH. the restaurant. it is loosely based on a place here in Vienna. Its pakistani food too, its a buffet, its kinda chaotic like described in the fic. also u can pay as much as u want.

i just thought, yknow, its home made cooking and its kinda relaxed and chill and casual and has a certain liberal flair to it. and i thought yeah that has fabri energy we gonna use that. also their mango rice puddings fucking slap

Languages were not his forte, those belonged to Ermal, but Fabrizio ran through his options. It surely wasn’t French or Spanish, that he would at least recognise. German looked different too; they had those dots over their U’s and those curly B’s which allegedly weren’t B’s at all. Swedish? Danish? No. He’s been to Ikea often enough to know that his wardrobe wouldn’t be called Qershor. And Russian had different letters but maybe it was something similar to Russian?

Okay, so I’m a known Slut for Languages. Fabrizio is not. I can pretty much recognise most European languages in written form at some point in a text. Fabrizio can not. Therefore writing this from the perspective of someone who really isnt into languages was kind of interesting and a bit challenging. I was just thinking ‘how would he recognise them when he isnt into them?’ And i think, in the end, i did it realistically.

“Is it like..Serbian? Croatian? Or something?” He mumbled while putting a piece of eggplant in his mouth but quickly realised the answer when Ermal almost spit out his water from laughing.“No, definitely not. I can guarantee you, it’s very much not Serbian or Croatian ‘or something’.” Ermal chuckled with a bright smile, obviously enjoying their little guessing game. “But you’re close. In a way.”

This is SO embarrassing but this whole language guessing game was just a setup to an inside joke I have with myself. So, for those who don’t know, I speak Serbo-Croatian. And I study Slavic studies. The first things they tell you in the first lesson of the Slavic Linguistics course is “Please, for the love of God, PLEASE, dont say Albanian/Hungarian/Romanian is a slavic language”. Apparently many europeans assume these languages are because theyre surrounded by slavic countries. BUT TO AN ACTUAL SLAVIC NATIVE SPEAKER, the difference is immediately obvious and so its quite comical when people assume theyre related languages. So i thought the reverse would be kinda funny to Ermal too.

“I can be anything the teacher wants me to be. A good student, a naughty student, whatever floats his boat…” He asked sultrily before winking at the man across of him whose higher brain functions seemed to have ceased at once and just gaped at him like a fish.

boys whole brain got fried when the sexiest man in italy started flirting with him. issokay, he was just shocked. fabrizio has never been flirty with him before, he’ll get used to it.

“I was just trying to give you the best date that I could.“At those words, the Roman frowned however."Wait, this was a date?!”

im just an asshole honestly

They giggled as they finally closed the gap between them going for a slow and deep kiss.

i just love them being all SOFT and in LOVE

“Erm, I- I have an instore tomorrow, I better be well rested.”His counterpart just huffed and raised an eyebrow.“So were you planning on staying up all night, huh?”

Fabs horn dog brain definitively went HmmmmMmm this is nice:) ..could get even nicer:) but no fuck, i have work to do tomorrow

“Love how you immediately forget about a good night’s sleep once you have a tongue in your mouth.”“Fuck off.”

He just got carried away as if u were complaining ermal smh

"I bet on everything I have that your password is 'liberoanita1’ so yes, I actually can.”

Parents culture is just using ur children’s names as all your passwords and we all know Fabri is that kinda parent.

All in All, i also wanna talk about how the epilogue mirrors the first chapter, but in a more successful light.

Fabrizio dresses for Ermal - Ermal dresses for Fabrizio

fancy place - more casual place

They take the car - they walk

Fabrizio takes Ermals hand on the open for everyone to see - Ermal takes Fabrizios hand under the table, in private

They eat their dessert seperately - they eat theri dessert together

they fall out - they become closer, kiss

they dont talk - they plan the next date

anyway thanks for reading and thank uuuuuu for this ask julchen

#my fics

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hxh-or-die · 5 years

Text

ok so if for some reason some of yall havent seen it yet, a bitch got called out, like it was pages long, and while a lot of it was super exaggerated, sometimes even downright incorrect, i can admit when i’ve slipped up so imma make 1 post and 1 post only about this situation because lets face it i was practically asking for a callout post even if i didnt think i was

(sorry if this sounds salty but i’ve had it up to here with these people and their bullshit)

im sorry for calling the admin aphobic when they are in fact, ace. in the past i’ve seen “no ace discourse” on blogs used as another way of saying “i think ace people are fake but i dont want hate” but i see now (and can fully understand) why it would also mean “im fucking sick and tired of hearing about this so dont ask me about it”. were other ppl in the server saying some shit that was pretty aphobic? yeah. but calling the admin aphobic was a misunderstanding on my part that i blew way out of proportion and im sorry for it.

i literally say in this blog’s about that i never once took a screenshot of yall’s venting or selfies, or art, or anything that either had to do with personal info or yall having a good time. i personally didnt think yall saying u used to not be antis constituded as venting and if it does im sorry, but know that im not here to make fun of ur traumas. i’ve been through some rlly tough shit that i prefer not to talk about like, ever, and i know how hard it is to go through on a daily basis.

im sorry for mistaking your reporting people for whitewashing characters for complaints about aged up killugon. yall were talking about these things one on top of the other and i misread the chat. whitewashing is a serious issue and im not about that shit.

for people who claim im taking things out of context yall sure seem to do that urselves, claiming that i think ppl who make money off of child porn arent pedophiles when we both know very well that was about haikyuu artists who draw nsfw. please dont put words in my mouth

im sorry that my not yelling at ppl for calling themselves “enby” is considered a cis person talking about subjects she doesnt know about but i’d rather not put my foot in my mouth and tell nonbinary ppl that they cant use certain terminology for themselves

killua having implied romantic feelings does not automatically mean he’s gay coded. first of all, that shit is meta, nothing more, nothing less, and him arguing with 2 of the 5 recurring female characters doesnt make him automatically gay. its totally cool to headcanon killua as gay, i do myself, but calling him bi aint homophobic when its not even canon.

listen, admittedly i havent read autumn’s au, my adhd allows me to sit down and read a fic maybe once in a blue moon and only if im really pumped for the fic in question. should i do more research on shit and listen more to trans folk and people of color? yes, absolutely. and im sorry my opinions of yall clouded basic things like that. im not entirely informed but i do know for a fact that autumn’s fiance is non binary and she has been asking for their input, i cant say much more than that for obvious reasons but i think its important to know.

for the last time me liking a character or liking their appearance doesnt mean i condone their behavior its not that hard to understand. these are fictional characters harming no real people. illumi is an absolute piece of shit and an awful awful human being and i can’t wait to see him perish, and me liking his design doesnt suddenly make me okay with any of the shit he’s done or think its okay to do irl.

you wanna know why i liked that post of yours so recently? because i was checking my blog for messages bcos yannow, sometimes ppl dm this blog and that gifset of rowlet showed up as a recommended post and since all of yall change ur blog themes and urls every other week u can understand why i didnt automatically realize it was one of yall. u can bet i’ll never make that mistake tho bcos wow you ur almost as bad as i am about jumping to conclusions. like theres a reason i didnt follow yall unless u followed me first and its not because i secretly loved ur blogs or smthn

im never touching this blog again. im putting this all behind me and im never touching fandom discourse again. if u need me ill be scrolling through my dashboard of things i enjoy seeing and editing hunter x hunter away from yall with my multifandom friends who dont even know what a fucking killugon is thank you and goodbye.

#not 2 be an emo again but #thanks for the memories even tho they werent so great

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stuffandsundry · 7 years

Text

Lemme preface this with a big hello there! I didn’t actually expect anyone to reply to this post, and so comprehensively either, haha!

dynamojacks replied to your post: Alt. P5 Justice Confidant

Hrrrrrmm. Can’t say I agree with all of this. It’s not like ‘being foil to the protag’ is the flaw with the interaction - or characterisation, of all things - it’s mostly the way said interaction is framed. Also, he’s less of a direct foil to him and more an 'equal and opposite’. Goro isn’t supposed to relate to the protag entirely, that’s kind of the point. He envies him. But he’s on his level, so to speak. It’s that aspect that draws him to him.

I think we’re using foil in a two different ways here. I use it as shorthand for “we, as third parties to this story, are supposed to compare and contrast these characters”. So, yeah, he’s set up as an equal and opposite you are totally correct there, but Goro aint the one relating to the protag, we as the audience are the ones comparing them. And that’s when problems arise, because quite a bit about the protag is so open to interpretation.

He also kind of KNOWS he’s special because he’s.. seen him, and Morgana, in the Metaverse (see: pancakes ‘gaffe’). It’s not just a one-sided perception, he’s absolutely right and this is a big fuck-off hint that he’s a wildcard in hindsight.

yo what seriously? i thought that the pancakes thing happened in the hallway of the TV studio how the hell did i misremember that badly holy shit

I agree that this should have been dealt with better, and that we needed more interaction with the PT to build a collective bond. A WHOLE, WHOLE lot more. I live and breathe any writings that bring them all together, like really. But to narrow the issue down to the protag being foil just seems flimsy. They ARE fated rivals per se and for good reason, it’s just that this aspect was shafted to buggery when it got down to it.

It’s not protag being foil that’s the problem, it’s “protag is the foil, focused on almost exclusively to the detriment of any meaningful interaction with the rest of the cast.” like, yeah, it does work, to a point. but it also could be a lot better, by giving the others a chance to shine.

The ‘god’s game’ apparently meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. That was exceptionally bad writing. To build up shit like that, but for Goro’s role as wild card to mean next to zilch.

Oh yeah, that resolution was very much so missing, which is a massive pity. Like you said, the whole fated rivals chosen to duke it out by god is a pretty interesting concept. I’m interested to know more about why you think that Goro’s role as a Wild Card mean zilch, though. Personally, I’ve been looking at it as: “Goro did had the potential to choose many different paths that could shape the world around him, signified by the Wild Card, but he locked himself very quickly into one path where he was simply being used as a tool by Shido. This, in combination with him holding everyone at arms length, meant that he didn’t form any significant bonds either aside from the real fucked up one with Shido, and so he inadvertently crippled his own Wild Card ability from the beginning” Actually, on that note, maybe he couldn’t have formed confidants. Whenever you initiate a Confidant in-game, it’s Lavenza’s voice that you hear, not Caroline + Justine. Would Lavenza have reached out to Akechi? Hmmm...

Also regarding Goro and fame, he’s not as hung up on it as Ryuji is/was, not NEARLY as much. One, mistranslation (not ‘public image’ or 'celebrity’, but 'reputation with adults’ and 'charisma’), and two, he knows his fame is fickle and dangerous in itself, having lived it for long enough. Ryuji romanticises it, Goro does not. Goro resents that those people do not know him for who he is, Ryuji thinks that fame will make him beloved.

Yeah!!!! This right here!!! This is a great contrast to have, they’d be amazing foils!! Ryuji and Goro are practically complete opposites, but they also share a lot of similarities too despite that. I spent like 5 min on this section the first time, so these are just the things that instantly popped into my head, but you could also draw parallels btwn the fact that Ryuji’s dad being in his life made it worse, while Goro’s being absent made his worse, or they way that Ryuji always had his mother with him vs Goro who’s mother left him alone, or the way that Ryuji is very bluntly honest about everything vs Goro who tries to keep everything hidden behind a veneer of politeness, or public perception of ryuji as a no good thug even if he honestly just wants to do the right thing vs the perception of goro as the person who would uphold justice/stop the breakdowns even if he was the very same person who was causing them, but DESPITE ALL THIS CONTRAST, ryuji is one of the most empathetic members of the team and absolutely would have tried to help Goro if he’d only known sooner what kinda trouble he was in (re: first impressions of makoto as a prick vs jumping in front of a car in order to rescue her)

(Speaking of Makoto, she’s absolutely the person that has the most parallels to Goro, and she should have been his rival. Both joined the team through some form of blackmail, both have incredible pressure but on them by the adults in their lives, both very similar characters vis-à-vis approaches to life in general, actually wait one second i have a quote from a friend on this.... “But I think Makoto works really well in terms of how they’re narratively set up as opposites? idk, like Makoto’s approach to subterfuge is to orchestrate the people around her while Akechi’s approach to subterfuge is to manipulate the people around him, Makoto’s impulsivity means she can be prone to direct confrontation while Akechi is on guard until he’s literally right at the breaking point, I just think…. it would’ve been so much more interesting to explore more of this than putting the burden on protag to carry Akechi Interest”)

and oh god im babbling sorry I HAVE OPINIONS

As for Yusuke? Madarame’s exploiting of his talent to his own ends (check), Yusuke wanting to please him but also trapped and nigh desperate to leave (check), Madarame being essentially responsible for his mother’s death (check), Yusuke having to rely on him to survive, for roof over head (check), and would be ruined, and even die one way or another if he tried to escape (check, check, and double check). A comment Yusuke makes in Okumura’s Palace is extremely telling- about how someone who is oppressed will ‘desire for it’ (paraphrase). What’s even more telling, is when Yusuke said about Goro, quote: 'had I not met you all, I would have turned out like him as well’. Haru? They’re both puppets to their fathers. Both are manipulated for the sake of political goals. Both are actually sweet by nature- at least, not ruthless, and really have to be pushed to be (SIU Director’s comments about the plot to FRAME the PTs as being ‘too brutal’… imagine how much more actually KILLING would be..). And both started out with a naive(ish), idealistic core, if Robin Hood and his fixation on Featherman R is anything to go by.

Eyyyyyyyyy this is some pretty hella meta, kudos to you. Like yeah!!!! YEAH!!!!!!! GORO AND PHANTOM THIEVES INTERACTIONS.... THERES THE POTENTIAL FOR SOME REAL MEATY, REAL GOOD STUFF IN HERE....GIVE US MORE OF THAT PLEASE...

And part of the reason why opinion changed per se, was realising just how flimsy Goro’s own resolve was, and how vulnerable. He wasn’t hell bent on bringing disaster, he was clinging on to straws in desperation. Ryuji’s comment, urging him to realise that he was his own person, makes this much clear. Their ire was more focused on Shido at this point. Still, they did not really forgive Goro, and made this much VERY clear. In any event, the last point might have been down to cultural differences. I’m.. not sure, but to those who understood this scene, it didn’t come ‘out of nowhere’, so you can’t necessarily say that’s a writing flaw on it’s own.

Mmmm, sorry if I was unclear, but the two times I used ‘out of nowhere in this post were in regards to how i dislike goro approaching protag with little prior warning? So.... im not quite sure what you’re trying to say here. Out of nowhere is too strong of a term to use for this scenario, so if its a thing I’ve said someplace else in regards to the last scene then sorry, I’ll clarify now. It’s not out of nowhere, however, it stands in stark contrast to the entire team’s opinions of Akechi up until this point. Not necessarily a terrible, awful choice, but it is certainly jarring in a way that is completely avoidable. Which, again, brings me back to “give Goro and the other PT a larger share of attention instead of focusing on Protag”. Sae’s Palace would have been a perfect place for Goro’s facade to slip a little bit, and give the rest of the team a little bit of an idea of how he’s like when he’s not constantly on guard. Instead, Sae’s Palace focuses on setting Goro up as smart which............. he’s a teen detective that works with the police. We know that he’s smart already. We should have gotten more characterization in there instead! Giving us some form of transition, like, “he’s an enemy of the Phantom Thieves” -> “hmm, there seem to be some circumstances that we can relate to that made him the way he is now” -> “we understand why you did the things you did. we still can’t agree with it, but we know now.” ...Granted, the reason that I think of it as an abrupt about face could have been due to the face that they never mention Goro again after his battle. A short scene after Shido’s Palace had been cleared to look back on the impact that Goro had had on the PT would have been a great help.

thank you for your thoughts! c:

#dynamojacks #long post #p5 spoilers #sundrywritings;

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extraposts23 · 6 years

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Flash back training. Dont reblog.

So this is a meta i wrote about how Arrow/Oliver’s training and how unrealistic and ridiculous it is , given all that happens in the 5 years that happened to him. How there is no way he could have possibly become the ‘Expert/Master’ martial artist that we see in the present. How he returns to Star City and suddenly he is a ‘Expert’ You don’t have to read it if you don’t want, you don’t have to like it either.

So here is my break down, its a bit in depth . Episode by episode via the Flashbacks . Exactly what happens in the Flashbacks. Im not disputing the fighting we see on screen,the actual physical fights or rather how they were done, im DISPUTING how Oliver got to that point in the 5 YEARS he was missing. How he got to the level we see in the present. In the present part of the show he is at this expert/master level, but in his 5 year journey how could he have possibly got to that point. Where would he have had the time, given all that was happening, given that he spent the majority of each flashback year on the run, captured , tortured and on the run again. Because the past training is unrealistic and ridiculous. Also this is supposed to be a show based in realistic fighting, so shouldn’t the training of the character be realistic as well? Again, not the present stuff , but the past trained to how he got to the present level because it does not match. Given the few months that Oliver had of actual fight training from Slade.

I will mention the present training a little towards the end, the training he got from Merlyn and Ra’s. But mostly this is about the past , 5 years , he was supposedly trained.

The show seems to be pretty much real time. So this is the first Season , year 1 up to the first half of Season 4, Year 4 of Oliver’s missing time.

Sorry , i may repeat my self a few times.

1x01-We find out how he ended up on the island in the first place and how his dad died.

1x02-Oliver buries his dad and gets shot with an Arrow by Yeoh Fei. So he is injured within the first week.

1x03- Yeoh Fei treats Oliver’s woulds and gives him the magic special herbs that heal every thing known to man. Oliver then tries to run and gets caught in a net. Yeoh Fei then saves him and they return to the cave. Oliver still injured.

1x04-Yeoh fei teaches Oliver to kill a bird. Oliver is getting better, after his injury

1x05-Yeaoh fei teaches Oliver to fire a Bow with NO success. Then Oliver gets captured by that fires guys men and thrown into a cage. Then gets brought to the bad guys base camp. Gets tortured and Yeoh Fei rescues him. No way he could have been trained here because he was captured.

1x06- Oliver hallucinates his own father. He is by himself , so no way Yeoh Fei could have shown him anything.

We jump ahead to episode 9 because the 2 previous episodes were about huntress.

1x09- Yeoh Fei captures the bad guy Fires. Oliver is still at zero skill level , No way Yeoh Fei taught him anything in intervening episodes. Yeoh Fei is taking Fires and Oliver to the Plane so Oliver can go home. Its a trap and Oliver runs away, Yeoh Fei takes on Slades former partner and a bunch of goons with guns and gets captured by said bad guys.

1x10-Oliver tries to make himself a fire and almost gets caught by a bad guy. He takes out said bad guy by taking them both down a hill and into a brook/river. He then takes the bad guys uniform and map. Oliver is by himself again , so no way Yeoh Fei was able to teach him anything.

1x11- Oliver manages to infiltrate Fires men and make it to Fires camp again only to get cracked over the head by Fires himself. Finding out that Yoeh fei betrayed him.

1x12- Oliver is still a prisoner and is forced to fight Yeoh Fei. He gets his ass kicked by Yeoh Fei and Yeoh Fei uses the pressure point thing on him and he wakes up in a river only to head to the plane and meet Slade. Im sorry but Oliver was unconscious so there is no way he could have figured out how to do the pressure thing. Not from Yeoh Fei.

1x13- Oliver meets Slade at the plane and he almost kills Oliver. Slade attempts to teach him to use a sword and fails. He ties Oliver up and they discuss things then lets Oliver go to “train” him.

1x14- Remember this is real time, so a week later Slade is trying to teach Oliver the Eskrima sticks and succeeds a LITTLE. Id also like to point out that Slade literally says “ how did you survive here for 6 months” , so that is six months of the first year where Oliver knows NOTHING. So clearly Yeoh Fei taught him NOTHING in that time .Then they immediately go to the air strip and Oliver steps on a Land mine, to which Slade saves him. Slade and Oliver have some fun by the fire side. They try to infiltrate the air strip that night and Oliver faces off with a guy who has a gun and Slade shoots him from behind saving Oliver. Slade then shoots the guy in the radio tower , Oliver then tries to take out the guy in the tower but fails , Slade saves him yet again. Oliver goes off to rescue Yeoh Fie. Fails again and forced to fight or rather be publicly killed by Slades former partner. Slade to the rescue yet again. Slade kills his former partner and Oliver and he escape, Oliver faces a goon with a gun and manages a single move that Slade taught him. Then he takes a bullet out of Slades arm. And we find out that the reason for Yeoh fei’s betrayal is Shado. So Oliver was able to glean a few moves from Slade in this day/night. But still poor skills given that at the air field Slade came to his aid and did all the work. Point being no way is he a skilled fighter at this point.

1x15- Slade is sick and the wound is infected so Oliver is treating him, goes to get super herbs . Interrogates a guy in the cave. So how is Slade going to continue training him when he is ill?

1x16- Slade and Oliver exercise and Oliver decides to play with the radio instead of training. Slade goes hunting and Oliver is still playing with the radio. Slade and Oliver then find a missile site. No fight training.

1x17- They are still at the Missile site. They infiltrate the site and Slade shoots them all. Oliver then makes a deal with the bad guy, the circuit board for a way off the island.

1x18- takes place right after the other one. They are still making the deal with Fires. They are about to trade the circuit board for Yeoh fei and Shado. They fight, Slade and Shado kick ass. Oliver shoves a guy against a tree, manages to flip him then hits him in the head with a rock. They end up having to leave Yoeh fei behind. So clearly Slade did not teach him much more after that one time, and when would he have had the time with all that is happening.

1x19- Slade and Shado spar and Oliver watches. Shado has Oliver slapping a bowl of water to learn arm strength. Next scene Oliver is still slapping water and Shado is doing Yoga. At night Oliver is slapping water and now he can draw his bow. Also id point out that Slade in this episode literally says “ ive tried to train him, but limited success” so Slade did not have much time to teach Oliver anything. Shado says “ i haven’t tried yet”, then she has him slapping a bowl of water , then starts teaching him the bow, because they don’t have time for anything else, because they have to get ready to deal with fires. So shado taught him zip in regards to martial arts which is seen in the finale.

1x20-Maybe takes place right after the last or a day or so later. Shado teaches Oliver to shoot a bow and fails. She says that he will hit his mark by sundown or they do it Slade way. Oliver fails, because at the end Shado has a face failure, then they get caught by yeoh fei and the bad guys.So how exactly is Shado or Slade going to continue Oliver’s fight training if they have been captured?

1x21- was all about Oliver’s dad and Merlyn.

We skip to 1x22 - Again maybe a day or 2 later ,guessing maybe same day since it can’t possibly take that long to get to the ememy camp. Slade , Shado and Oliver are brought to the bad guy camp. Where they learn that the bad guys are going to down a plane. Fires shoots Slade and Shado, Yeoh fei gives Oliver a knife to cut himself free. And they watch Yeoh fie executed. So that is now Yeoh Fei out of the training equation.

1x23-The finale - Oliver cuts himself free and rushes over and shoves Fires then stabs the guy at the control panel. Turns and cuts Shado free . Slade and Shado are bad asses again , but Oliver then gets grabbed by the guy he stabbed. Is being held until Shado saves him, he cannot get free. So If Shado had taught him anything, then why did he need her to rescue him, if he had the martial arts skills taught by her. Because he was NOT taught by her. They then try to take out the launcher. Slade covers them with his gun, Shado then takes out the guy on the launcher and then Oliver runs up to get on it. After Shado takes out 2 more guys on the launcher she gets taken over the side and Oliver is left alone. he gets thrown down on the thing by another guy and repeatedly pounded , he kicks him off then throws him over the side. And the missile hits the camp instead. All the skills of a unskilled brawler or rather the limited skills that Slade taught him in that one day or so.. Shado is taken by Fires and Oliver then shoots the guy through the throat killing him.

So that is one year down, where he was taught maybe limited skills by Slade via a day or so. Yeoh Fei spent like 80% of the year helping Oliver recover from the Arrow that he himself put in him, then got caught and was working for Fires. There is NO WAY that he could have taught Oliver anything. I’ll give Shado the Bow, because she was able help with his aim and help with his arm strength. But in NO WAY would she have had time to teach him any fighting, given the time they had and the fact they got captured immediately.

Season 2- 2x01-Again this is pretty much real time , so he only had a few months. Shado literally says “ you have come far in a FEW months”. He improved a bit with the stick fighting via Slade and combat skills via Slade again, but immediately Shado is captured and he tackles the guy and beats him with a rock. Now, his feelings were in the way, granted, but if he was trained so well by either of them, then he would not have simply just tackled the guy , he would have dealt with all of them like the “skilled fighter” we see in the present, but he was not trained for very long by Slade. You cannot become an expert in a FEW months, in Season 1 episode 14, Slade was attempting to teach him fighting and Oliver learned maybe one move.

2x02-The next episode takes place right after and the are waking around trying to figure out who is after them as well as Oliver dealing with killing a guy. And they find the cave.

2x03- Shado is examining a corpse . Slade and Oliver go to look around to scope out the area and Ivo’s ship fires missiles on the plane wreckage they are living in. Oliver goes running off to save Shado and Slade gets hit and severely injured. And Oliver wakes up in a cell on the Amazo.

2x04-Oliver is still on the Amazo in a cage , gets shot by one of the guards , and pulls a bullet out of his side with tweezers of some kind. He meets the Russian guy Anatoyli . Oliver finds out that the ship crew are looking for some grave site and some bones,and he finds Sara. Now Oliver is a prisoner , so how exactly is he supposed to learn to fight when he is a prisoner and being tortured?

2x05- Flash backs for Sara, we learn how she survived, and how she ended up on the Amazo.

2x06- So if we are going for year long here, Oliver had to have spent at least 2 weeks on the boat as a prisoner, if not more, because this is year 2 of his missing years. Oliver is still prisoner on the Amazo, being interrogated by IVO. So exactly how is supposed to have learned any fighting when he is a prisoner and being tortured? Sara and IVO want to know where a Sub is and where the Mirakurru is. Oliver is in a cage and talking to Sara. Shado is treating a critically injured Slade. Oliver and Sara try to contact Slade and Shado, but Oliver is tricked by Sara and now IVO knows the location of his friends and the plane.

2x07-Then next week Ivo, Sara and Oliver go to the plane wreckage and Shado who was treating a critically injured Slade manage to escape the bomb that they find. Shado and a really hurt Slade rescue Oliver and Sara. So Shado and a SERIOUSLY INJURED Slade again save Oliver. Oliver could not have been trained by Shado since at this point she had been taking care of Slade.

I also reiterate , there is NO WAY you can become an expert in martial arts on only a few months, the amount of time between Season 1 finale and Season 2 premiere . Which is what Shado said, “you came far in a few months” , came far but not an expert. It takes YEARS Upon YEARS to master even one style.

2x08-Then next week , this has to be at least the next day or so after the last flash back.They all are helping Slade walk and looking for the Submarine. They find the Sub and enter the Sub to find the drug. We also find out that Slade had feelings for Shado, but she only cared for him as a friend maybe. They inject Slade with the Serum and Shado ,Sara and Oliver gets captured Again. So that is now Slade out of the equation of trainers. Because how is Slade going to train Oliver when he is this injured, and now in super strength madness.

2x09-Then very next episode, has to be immediately after the last. IVO’s men storm the sub and capture Shado , Sara and Oliver. IVO is furious that they used the drug on Slade,but happy they have the drug. Sara pleads with IVO, but he doesn’t care to much. Now if Oliver had any of the training that he supposedly got from Shado, then the men with guns would not have been a problem. But to be fair here, in this one part they were taken by surprise and Shado could not have done anything either. But i am disputing where he could have gotten his training. And still here , there is no way because they were CAPTURED AGAIN. Slade wakes up and has super strength, Oliver is forced to choose between Shado and Sara and he chooses Sara. Shado dies. So that is now Shado out of the training equation. She could not have possibly trained him , given that half the time they were either captured , on the run, helping Slade and now dead.

Soo no i don’t buy that Shado had time to teach him anything at all. Not given what we see. Because if she taught him any fighting techniques he would have been a way better fighter than what we saw. And She could not possibly have taught him after since she was killed.

2x10-Now the next episode is spent dealing with Slades Mirakuru madness, so He definitely would not have been trained by him at that time. They bury Shado next to her father. Slade gives Oliver Yeoh Fei’s hood, Oliver wants to tell Slade the truth. Slade has the super drug and he is losing his mind. Slade wants to find IVO and kill him. Sara doesn’t believe that Slade can kill all the men on the Amazo. Slade gets pissed and lifts Oliver off the ground. To distract him Sara hits him with a log. Slade regains a little sense. IVO contacts Sara on the Radio , while they are hiding from him. Sara goes to find Slade only to find that Slade left with the Mirakurru.

2x11- Sara and Oliver look for Slade at the Plane, he is not there.Sara wants to to take IVO’s deal. She for some reason believes him. Sara and Oliver are camping at the plane and talking of old times, Sara is unsure they will make it off the island. Oliver apologies for the gambit. Sara admits that she chose to go on the gambit.Then Slade goes off on his own and Oliver and Sara are alone. Sara then contacts IVO after Oliver falls asleep. Sara then realizes that IVO is nuts, and agrees to help Oliver, has a change of heart.

2x12-Sara and Oliver are still looking for Slade, Sara does not want to tell Slade the truth about Shado. They think Slade is in a cave.They find Slade, he is still on the verge of Mirakuru madness. Oliver then talks Slade down from the missile launcher, he wants to bomb the Amazo. Oliver says he will help him through the serum effects. They decide to take the freighter.

2x13 -was all about Sara flashbacks.

2x14- Sara, Slade and Oliver scope out the Amazo. They realize they don’t have time to build a raft to get over. Sara points out how many guards are on the boat, clearly thinks these guys are dangerous and that the three of them dont have a chance. Now again id point out that if Oliver was at the level of skill that training via Shado and Slade had given him, then with him ( at that level) and Slade( even in his madness) would have been able to get aboard with little problem. But Oliver was only given maybe a few months and a couple of days worth of fight training. Then the next they find a plane which explains Sin. The plane is pretty much useless. Sara then promises to find Sin and look after her. And Oliver finds find a parachute.

2x15-This is maybe a couple of days later, a week maybe. Oliver is working out, running and training with his bow, but no fight training because , they don’t have time and Slade most likely is in no shape to help him. Not to mention would probably lose himself in the training and kill Oliver. Sara herself says “Slade is unstable”. So all we see is Oliver Work out. He does get better with the bow though. Sara makes some nifty drugs she gleaned from training from IVO. Sara and Oliver agree to destroy the drug, and Slade then agrees as well. They burn the drug. They all drink before the mission, Sara and Oliver make promises to each other to tell there families.The next they prep to invade the boat. Oliver pretends to get caught to infiltrate the freighter. So he is now captured by IVO and being tortured. Sara and Slade parachute in. Sara goes to free the prisoners and Slade goes to kill the men, Oliver goes to find IVO. Slade deals with the men because he is the only one who can. Oliver runs into one guy and uses the same move that Slade taught him in Season 1. Oliver still shows the same limited skills that we see in Season 1. Except for the Bow. He gets maybe one move in akin to the one we see after a week with Slade. Slade finds out that Oliver was forced to choose, he and Slade fight , but he gets he ass kicked. Slade kicks him into the steering wheel , which forces the ship onto the rocks, the only reason Oliver gets away. Once on deck, Oliver grabs a guy running away and throws him overboard. Anatolyi fires off a gun and kills like 3 goons , one more shows up and Oliver fires an Arrow into the guys leg. he is warned about a guy behind him , then turns and shoots that guy with and arrow, rolls out of the way of a blade of some kind, comes up and shoots that guy with an Arrow.They all decide to jump ship and literally as Oliver is jumping Slade grabs him. He is captured by Slade. Slade chops off IVO’s hand, and we find out that Slade kept the drug, they only burned a box.

2x16- is all about the suicide squad and Diggle flashback.

2x17-So like 2 weeks later Oliver is still on the boat being held by Slade. So no possible way to learn any martial arts skills.Oliver is being tortured by Slade , and given a tattoo by a clearly untrained tattoo artist.Sara and the prisoners are back at the plane, Slade wants to trade Oliver for the ships engineer.Sara agrees to make the trade, Sara hits the engineer over the head with a crowbar

2x18- Sara is planning to make the trade, Sara decides to use the trade as a way to take out Slade. Sara decides to use the Land mines to kill Slade, via strapping it to the engineers chest, with Anatolyi’s KGB skills to do it. Oliver is still on the boat being tortured by Slade . Sara makes the trade , but her plan fails because Slade can smell the TNT. Slade decides to leave them all on the island. And tells them he is going to kill their families.

2x19-Oliver, after being released/freed, gets treated by Sara and takes the magic herbs of Yeoh Fei’s . Oliver finds out there is a cure for the Super human serum, and kills Ivo.

2x20-Flash backs about Oliver getting a girl pregnant and Moria bribing the girl.

2x21- 2 weeks later Sara, Oliver and the Russian guy are on the Sub and about to blow the Sub.And Sara gets captured.

2x22-Then he tries to rescue her and destroy the serum and gets captured, because it was clearly a trap by Slade.

2x23-Then the finale is him and Slade fighting and the only reason he won was the boat was going down and Slade got pinned. Then he ends up in Wallers care.

So that is Year 2 down , where Oliver was only given limited training. A few months worth added to the couple of days to a week that Slade had originally trained him. Plus Bow training from Shado. I don’t buy that Shado had time to teach him anything but the bow. Because again, had he been trained by her or Yeoh Fei , then he would have been a better fighter , and again there is NO WAY that they could have made him an expert in those few months between seasons, and during the flashbacks where exactly would he have had the time. Plus Shado is immediately caught and killed right away, and Slade goes nots for the majority of the season after he is critically injured .

Season 3- 3x01 Now again this is all real time. So what ever amount of months between the season 2 finale and Season 3 premiere, Oliver is being held by Argus and is chased by Maseo. So in real time months from finale of Season 2 , he gets his ass handed to him by Maseo . If he was trained extensively by Shado and by Slade he should have been able to handle Maseo or at least been able to hold his own. Ill grant you that Oliver got a couple of blocks in in his fight with Maseo but nope , still no actual fighting skills aside from the still limited skills that Slade taught him. Also Shado only taught Oliver a couple of words in Chinese and he doesn’t understand anything that Maseo says in Chinese. Id also like to mention that Maseo is a trained martial artists and argus agent. He is now , being watched by Maseo at his house .

3x02-Next episode right after Maseo is having him sniper Tommy. He captured Tommy with the help of Maeso.

3x03 was all about Thea.

3x04- Next episode 2 weeks later, He tracks and kills an old man with the help of Maseo. We learn that Tatsu hates Oliver.Then confronts Waller about the secret stuff and she tells him about China white.

3x05 was all about Felicity

3x06-2 weeks later again he is running after a guy in the market and fails to catch him. Gets help from Tatsu to remember what happened .

3x07-The next episode Maseo is missing and he and Tatsu go to find him and Tatsu does all the fighting or rather sword work. Oliver gets surprised buy one of the guys , then gets beat on. So if he had such extensive training by Slade, then why did he get the crap beat out of him. Tatsu comes to the rescue. The whole time she is sword killing guys he is on the ground after getting the tar beat out of him. Oliver is attempting to learn chinese . When they return to Tatsu’s home , Maseo is already there.

3x08- He learns how to torture people, or rather just tortures the guy. and fails to get the info.A bomb goes off because he did not torture the man. Oliver gets a second chance and decides to start torturing people because he thinks Waller may be right.

3x09- He finds out about the Alpha/Omega. They capture a scientist guy , he does it with Maseo’s help. Not with much trouble they just tricked him. Tatsu gets captured.

3x10-Waller sends Oliver and Maseo after the Alpha/Omega. Olive takes a guy down with a slap to the face from his bow as the guy comes up around the corner, shoves him into the wall and throws him to the ground. And it turns out that he put a tracker on the goon.

3x11 - He and Maseo are in a club trying to find Tatsu.Id like to point out that Oliver says “ that is a lot of muscle in front of that door”. So if he has such extensive training by Slade , then he should not be concerned about said muscle. During the fight Oliver hits a guy with a chair. Throws a guy into the dance floor and grabs his gun. shoots one guy , jumps on the bar and shoots another. Tatsu , throws a knife with deadly accuracy. Oliver is still on the level of skill he had at the beginning of the island. Because if he was on the present Oliver skill level , the he would have done more then just hit a guy with a chair.

3x12-Was all about how Merlyn went to join the League. Now id like to point out that when he gets there he meets Nyssa , who is training with a member of the League , she is maybe 11-12, so her father ( Ra’s Al Ghul ) has her training since she could pick up a weapon, a time when in this episode Oliver , around that age is shown to be comforting his childhood friend Tommy during Tommy’s mother’s death. So Nyssa has been training since CHILDHOOD. And i really doubt that her father would have had her stop, or let her do anything else, since she is meant to be his heir. And Oliver has maybe a few months and a couple of weeks of actually training in his 5 year journey. Let me also point out that she beat the guy who was teaching her the sword. So Oliver is the better fighter is nonsense, because with the training that he got on the island and through out the flashback time frame he has limited skills and then miraculously is an expert upon his return?.

3x13- Tatsu and Maseo are leaving and Oliver gets captured by Waller. Kay now Oliver gets chased by the ARGUS guys , shoves one guy into some barrels , punches another , then runs away again. He gets tackled and then tasered. No Shado/Slade trained skill used. If he had any the extensive skills via Slade , then why was he running? Why not fight them and win?Oliver gets tortured and gives up the Yamashiros. Maseo gets caught, but the difference is that he let him self get caught to rescue Oliver.

3x14- Oliver and Maseo are now working for Waller yet again. He pays a visit to Thea , in the shadows of course, to check up on her. Oliver sneaks into Queen Consolidated with no trouble since they have rent-a cops and he knows the place, plus he had help from Maseo.He kills a drug dealer with the same moves that Slade taught him in Season 1 or 2. But again a drug dealer with no fighting abilites at all. Oliver tries to run, because he believes that he can hide from Waller, but Waller needs his help. Then after coming to help Maseo with a gun,jumps off a building onto the back end of a moving vehicle and shoots it. The only reason that China white did not fight, was because her car had crashed. gets immediately handed over to General Shrieve.

3x15- Oliver is being debriefed by the general , The Yamashiros are attacked and Oliver covers them with a gun. He then takes Akkio and runs, since Wallers men are after them. Maseo and Tatsu go off in a different direction.

3x16- OLiver spends his time on the run with Akio, and meets Shados twin.So while he is on the run , how exactly would he have time to train?

3x17- was all about the suicide squad

3x18- Oliver is staying with Shados twin and trying to explain to her who is after her. Argus guys show up and again he shows the Season 1 level of hand to hand because he land maybe 2 or 3 punches and then gets thrown into a wall. He then retruns the favor, and lands a couple more punches but another dude shows up with a gun then Maseo and Tatsu come to the rescue yet again.

3x19- The Yamishiros and Oliver are still on the run, Oliver then goes back to Wallers hideout and has little trouble getting in since the General’s men were already there and pretty much all of Wallers men are dead. Then Oliver and co break into the generals lab/base and Oliver surprises a guard , so still Season 1 level skill. Plus the guy clearly was just a rent-a guard and did not even fight back. They then decide to go after the General and his men.

3x20- Now Oliver and co are after a moving truck , Oliver tries to jump to the truck and fails, lands behind the car he is on in the first place. later he manages to get aboard with the help of Maseo who shoots while driving. Once aboard Oliver throws one guy out of the truck, then another . he blocks the other guys punches but this is still Season 1 level because these guys are holding there own against him and they are clearly not special forces trained guys. Also Tatsu ended up coming to his aid again. She says “ you look like you could use a hand” , if he was extensively trained by Slade for more than few months then he would not need anyone’s help. He broke the other guys arm with a roll move, another move he learned from Slade. Tatsu gets info from a still living soldier. Then he faces a guy in the market place , to get the vial of Omega, and this guy had some level of Martial arts skill and Oliver gets his butt kicked yet again.mostly Oliver was dodging and blocking, he did flip the guy like maybe 2 times, but still got beat. So again still at Season 1-2 skill here. If he was trained by Shado, Yeoh Fei or Maseo then he would have no problem with that guy.

3x21- Oliver and co are in china still and the Omega virus is in the air. They start a fire fight in the middle of the market . Tatsu makes it to the truck and takes out 2 of the guys, Oliver gets grabbed from behind and can’t get free, Tatsu slices the guy from behind. Again Tatsu to the rescue. They blow up the truck and go back to akio . Then as they are attempting to flee the city , Akio becomes sick.

3x22-Oliver and co are dealing with the fact that Akio is dying. Oliver and Maseo go after the general and Oliver then takes down 2 guards via firing arrows from his bow. They bring the general to Akio , but hes dead.

3x23- Finale- Oliver and co are attacked by the Generals men, Oliver then slams the general into a wall , throws him to the ground and starts punching him over and over. First guy through the door is shot by Maseo, then the second goes the same way. Oliver then hides behind a counter, shoots a guy with his bow and and uses this guy for a shield to get near the other guy , then trips that guy and starts pounding on him with his bow. Like just keeps slamming it down on the guy. Really all i see is a bunch of brawling, he only uses a couple of moves he got from Slade , but in no way was this Present Oliver level skill. He then starts torturing the general. Then lastly after Maseo leaves Tatsu and Oliver part ways.

So in no way was he trained by Maseo or Tatsu and he definitely had no skills from Shado, aside from the bow.

Season 4- Episode 1-Again this is real time. So months later after Season 3 Oliver is now in Coast City trying to be an early incarnation of the Arrow. he’s chasing down a drug dealer on a rooftop. The guy pulls a gun and fires , Oliver hides behind some sort of object on the roof. When the guy stops firing he rushes the guy. The guy then ducks out of Oliver’s reach and punches Oliver in the face. Then the guy grabs Oliver and throws him off the roof where Oliver lands tangled up in wires and meets Waller. Where exactly was Oliver’s supposed skill. I mean if he had been trained by Shado, Maseo and Yeoh Fei ( which we know he was not) then that would never have happened.Waller then drugs Oliver and he ends up on a plane with ARGUS men. They then kick Oliver in the face and throws him off the plane. So again where is the skill he supposedly has. He was never afraid of gunfire before ( when he ran at those armed goons with no skill on the amazo)and if he had extensive training from Slade and Shado then those ARGUS guys would have been no problem. And hes back on the Island.

4x02- Oliver is on the island again as per Wallers request. He uses a move he learned from Slade on this goon in fatigues , who clearly had no skill at all and did not even really fight back. Oliver is told by Waller to infiltrate the labor camp on the island. Okay now he going under cover, so where will he have time to learn ANY fighting here, and these guys are in no way going to teach him. They have no Martial arts background, they are just goons with guns. Then he gets taken to the camp goon leader. The leader gives Oliver a job because he thought that he was doing the surviving all alone, which he was not alone, but regardless Oliver obviously takes the job. Now Oliver is one of the goons with a gun.

4x03-Oliver is still playing goon with a gun, obviously under cover. He chases down a prisoner who tries to escape. He and the other goon drag the prisoner back . They question all the prisoners , and Conklin kills a prisoner. Oliver decides that the best way to get info is to torture a prisoner, a skill he was already good at via General Shrive, and learned from Waller, we saw that. The girl Tatiana , confesses to taking the drugs to save the other prisoner, Oliver intervenes and agrees to kill her himself. Oliver takes her through the woods, and leads the men following into a mine trap. He was shown to know where the mines were since Slade showed him and he accidentally stepped on one in Season 1.

4x04-Oliver takes Taiana ( think is how you spell her name) to the same cave Yeoh Fei brought him to. He then tries to convince Ridier/the baddie that the girl is dead. Saying he killed her. Then brings Conklin to the body, in which he has used the pressure point touch on Taiana, a skill Yeoh Fei never taught him, though Yeoh Fei did USE on him. Then Conklin finds the ARGUS tech left for Oliver.

4x05- Conklin confronts Oliver about the ARGUS tech. And now, Constantine is on the Island looking for some sort of septer. Now Constantine takes out Conklin with one punch, so we know these goons are just that, goons with guns. he takes Oliver hostage, and Oliver does nothing because he needs to maintain cover. Now Constantine gets the septer and then Constantine uses a spell to transfer his tattoo to Oliver.

4x06-Oliver takes Conklin and Baron Riter to the magic chamber. Riter finds some magic letters, or writing. Orders Oliver to take workers to a cove and find some sort of magic thing. Oliver and Conklin are at the cove, Oliver orders the prisoners to take a break and he goes to eat alone. Or rather goes to talk to Taianna. Conklin convinces Taianna’s brother to try and kill Oliver. Oliver brings dinner to Tianna , and asks about magic with her. Tells her he will return. Oliver goes back to the shore only to be attacked by the guy Conklin convinced to attack him. And yet again Oliver uses the same move he used on the drug dealer in Season 3 flash back, limited training he learned from Slade , on a guy who had zero training.

4x07-Oliver now finds out that he killed Tianna’s brother. Oliver and Conklin argue over the reason for killing Tianna’s brother. Riter uses magic on Conklin to find out he is lying. Oliver then whips Coklin. Then Oliver goes to tell Tianna her brother is dead but does not tell her that he is the one who did it. Then Oliver realizes that he needs a dive instructor to get to a map from inside the Amazo, which is half under water.

4x08- was all about Vandal Savage.

4x09-Oliver takes Tianna to the Amazo, admits that he is using her for her diving skills. Now Oliver free dives to the Amazo. Also id mention that Tianna literally mentions that “ i dont see how you can free dive after only an hour of instruction.”. now I’ll maybe give him that because if you can swim and have a good set of lungs , i suppose that is not that hard. Oliver gets the map from the Amazo , swims out and gets attacked right away by a shark. And gets caught by Conklin. How would Oliver have been able to learn anything if he is ill, injured and yet again locked up

4x10- Conklin is marching Oliver, who has a Shark bite in his side, along with Tianna back to the Baron’s camp to show that Oliver is in fact a traitor. Oliver collapes and needs Tianna to help him walk because he is losing lots of blood. The three of them are back in camp and Oliver is proven to be a liar and traitor. Conklin then Whips his back in return for Oliver doing it to him. Oliver’s Chinese/Mandarin tattoo starts glowing and the Baron guy decides that Oliver needs to be kept alive. Oliver takes Conklin’s gun and , barely being able to stand decides to turn the gun on himself. The Baron allows Oliver to live in return for helping him find what he is looking for. Oliver is then taken to the prison on the island , again needing Tianna to help him walk. Then he and Tianna are left alone so Tianna can tend to his wounds. How would Oliver have been able to learn anything if he is ill, injured and yet again locked up

4x11- Diggle Flash Backs about his brother.

4x12- Oliver is yet again chained up and being tortured , and is still injured from his Shark attack. The baron guy wants to know why Oliver wanted the maps that he stole from the Amazo wreckage. Then Oliver begins to halucinate that Shado is still alive and rescues him. Its only a vision , she tells him to continue the journey and go through his darkness. Seems his darkness is guilt.Oliver is awake now and still in the cell. And now he confesses that he killed Tianna’s brother. How would Oliver have been able to learn anything if he is ill, injured and yet again locked up

4x13- Oliver is still in the cell, still very sick and injured, Tianna is furious and wants to let him die. She takes the stone totem from him intending to give it to the Baron. The Baron does not care , he wants Oliver to live so he can use him. So he demands that Tianna care for him, if he dies in her care she will die. Tianna cares for Oliver. The two of them compare past losses. She tells him that he is shattered, that if he wants to save them he cannot do it shattered. The Baron tells them that what they are looking for is under their feet. Oliver has regain some strength. How would Oliver have been able to learn anything if he is ill, injured and yet again locked up

4x14- Oliver has healed it seems. and he is digging in some wall to find something of the Baron’s. The other prisoners want to kill Oliver, but Tianna intervenes. The prisoners decide that the only way for them to trust Oliver is for Oliver to kill Conklin. Oliver does not want to , but Tianna tells him that only monsters can fight monsters. Oliver has Conklin alone. They fight , but Oliver still is using the same moves that he learned from Slade in those “few months” ; also i would add that Conklin was on equal footing or rather skill because he blocked or dodged just about all of Oliver’s moves. Also it looked like Conklin had sliced Oliver’s leg.Then Oliver throws Conklin into a wall and the knife gets embedded into Conklin’s chest in the momentum.Oliver kills Conklin, and then gets locked up again. Again, how would he be able to learn any Martial Arts when he is now under constant watch , when he is being used as manual labor.

4x15- Oliver is still in a cell with Tianna. Oliver is limping via his leg would from Conlkin. Oliver, Tianna and the Baron are at the dig site in the prison and get visited by the spooky ghost/demon/apparition of Conklin. The apparition says that no one shall pass, the guards shoot it or rather through it. the Baron leaves Oliver and Tianna in the dig site alone with the apparition. The apparition says that Oliver is worthy to pass, once it sees the tattoo that Constantine gave Oliver. I’d like to add that without that tattoo he would have never been deemed worthy, because that is the reason the spooky ghost said he was worthy. Baron returns and Oliver is pissed at being left, then they all go into the spooky catacombs.

Then we are at another break. so we are already almost half through the fourth year of Oliver’s journey and he has yet to be trained in anything.

4x16- Oliver Tianna and the Baron Riter are exploring the catacombs. We learn a bit about the Barons past. They are looking at some sort of bust. The Baron then shoots one of , what was one of his own men, or another hostage. And once the man is dead, his soul , transfers into the statue/bust. the Baron wants to use the bust to control people, and decides to shoot all the prisoners .Oliver , with one punch knocks out a guard and then shoves the Baron against the stone wall and throws him to the ground. Oliver and Tianna then run off with the bust. They are running through the tunnels, Tianna tries to destroy the bust and nothing happens. The only way out is back the way they came and through the Baron. Some of the Barons goons show up and Oliver drops down from the ceiling, and takes out the 1st goon with the same moves he has been using from Season 1, two goons who have shown no ability to fight. And right before the 2nd shoots Oliver , Tianna hits him over the head with the bust. So while he is running with Tianna and hiding from The Baron, exactly when will he learn these Martial Arts skills? He cannot , because he will not have time and there is no one to train him.

4x17- Oliver meets with the Baron unarmed, then Tianna shows up with two hand guns , giving one to Oliver. Baron wants the idol , they will not give it to him. Tianna shoots him only to find out he cannot be hurt.Seems he now controls special energy that flows through all things,killing people to gain power. Oliver still refuses to give up the idol , then Baron then throws Tianna against a wall with his magic powers. Oliver tries to fight the Baron in hand to hand. Oliver loses badly. He used none of the supposed skills he learned from Shado or yeoh Fei, not even the limited skills he learned from Slade.He was literally just throwing punches ( i would like to add that The baron was using no magical powers) he was only throwing punches as well) Then he lifts Oliver off the ground with super strength or something. But the strentgh fails and he drops Oliver. And while the man is distracted Oliver punches him and knocks him out.Oliver then checks to see if Tianna is okay, she is , but when she wakes up they both realize that the Baron is gone.They realize that the Baron is now searching for the Idol , so they decide to go and kill all of his men and free Tianna’s friends, by killing the guards. So he has spent more time merely trying to stay alive , and no one to teach him more styles of martial arts.

4x18- Oliver is still in the caves with Tianna , telling her they are out numbered and that when they face the Barons men they cannot hesitate to kill. Oliver tells her about how he used to look at Laurels photo when he first arrived on the island , like she is doing with the photo of her brother. He tells her it reminded him of who he was, but that man would not survive on the island. It was what Yeoh Fei told him. ( that is one thing i do believe he got from Shado's father. that saying, that belief.) She agrees, and they both head off to take out the Barons men. Tianna screams to get the guards attention and runs out of the tunnel, telling the guards that the apparition of Conklin killed Oliver. Two of the Guards go in the tunnel and there is gunfire, Oliver kills the men with , an UZI and psitol . Tianna kills the last guard with her own pistol. The Oliver comes out of the tunnel and then uses the UZI and pistol to kill the other guards who show up from the side door. Tianna then goes to work on freeing the prisoners. ( I want to add that, Oliver in Season 2 flash back, on the boat was not afraid to run into the gunfire with only his bow and limited training from Slade. Again if he was trained by Shado, where were these fighting abilites now? he was in a tunnel and had places to hide) . The bodies then get dragged into the empty cells. Oliver shoots another guard that shows up. Some guards then show up via the upper level catwalk, and the prisoners with guns then fire back at them. Tianna kills one with her hand gun. Oliver moves by the door way that the guard is coming out of, smacks him in the faces with his gun then grabs him by the collar and trhows him to the ground, then shoots him. He tells the prisoners to get to the surface and go for the boats. Oliver decides to use the C4 to trap the Baron instead of trying to stop him. Oliver then preps the C4 to bring the catacombs down on the Barons head and trap him. He shows Tianna the picture he still has of Laurel. Tianna tells him that if he does not make it she will find Laurel and tell how he saved them all, and he must go to Russia to tell her parents about herelf and Vlad. Oliver fires off the C4 and buries the Baron inside the catacombs. He kills his own men and steals their life force or something to help him live.

4x19- was a flash back about Tommy's funeral.

4x20- no flashbacks.

4x21- Oliver and Tianna are in the middle of the camp while the Baron's men are dhooting everyone. Oliver shoots one guard in the back. Oliver then finds a map in the camp that shows a plane. He takes a back pack and a machine gun and he and Tianna run for it.They meet up with another prisoner, who tells them that they drove some of the guards off but the baron is sending reinforcements, the baron is alive. Oliver decides to stay behind and take on the baron alone. Oliver is standing in the middle of the camp later that night, waiting for the baron. The baron uses his magic to rip the machine gun out of Oliver's hand. And telekinetically throw him across the camp and through a hut. Oliver comes running back through and starts punching the baron. He literally punches him, then completely misses, and falls to the ground. The baron throws him, magically against another hut. Oliver then stabs him with a blade of some kind, which has zero effect, the Baron lifts him up off the ground by his neck. Oliver , before the baron stabs him, is saved by Tianna, who shoots the knife out of his hand. Both Oliver and Tianna unload the entire clips of both hand gun and machine gun into him. Oliver talls Tianna to get the Idol , then throws a gernade at the baron, which also has no effect. They take the idol and run. After Oliver and Tianna are on the run, Tianna is affected by the Idol.

4x22-Oliver and Tianna are still walking through the woods. Riters men get the drop on them and Oliver gets shot in the back. Tianna gets riddled with bullets. Oliver shoots the guys with his machine gun. Tianna is healed by the Idol power. So men put a bunch of holes in Tianna but only put a small hole in Oliver's arm? Tianna is now as crazy as Riter. She wants to use the idol's power to save her village/town in Russia to stop something called the Kovar. The whole area is a gun fight , people are shooting at each other. Oliver and Tianna come in firing, Tianna scares some men away with her glowing eyes. Oliver then tells the people to go to a plane that is east. He wants to help a injured man, she wants to shoot him. His death will make her stronger. Oliver takes the gun from her, she thinks she is the only one who can stop Riter. She needs the mans life force, his power. She then throws Oliver a huge distance, and snaps the injured man's neck.Tianna wants the idol back that Oliver now has, riter wants it as well, Tianna's eyes glow as she stands next to Oliver.

4x23-another week later and Oliver is still face to face with Riter, tianna behind him.Riter shoots Oliver in the leg. Oliver tells him that they plane overhead has all the prisoners on it. Riter tells him it does not, and he uses magic to destroy the plane. Tianna gets taken down by riter. Oliver takes Riters knife but gets thrown across the forest. Riter then uses the magic to start taking away Tianna's life force. She then counters , using it on him, then Oliver throws a knife into his back. Then Tianna starts to be affected by the magic she was using. Oliver tries to reason with her , but she throws him into a tree. She starts to choke him and tells him he is a murderer and darkness. She tells him to kill her. And Oliver mercy kills Tianna. The remaining prisoners from the island are furious with him. Oliver tells the people that the idol is responible and that Tianna asked him to kill her. Annd Amanda Waller shows up because Oliver radios her.Waller crates up the artifact and then sends it to some lab. And Oliver is off to Russia.

SO that is the end of Season 4 and Olvier spent the entire time undercover. No training at all.

We are now back and on to S5.

5x01- Oliver is in a fight ring , fighting for money it seems. Fighting some huge Russian guy. And he is dont even using the supposed skills he learned from Shado, Yoeh Fei and Maseo. Not even using the limited skills he got from Slade. In fact it is just a bunch of trading punches. And this Russian does not look to have any skill at all. He is getting the crap beat out of him.The to end it Oliver uses the exact same move he used on the petty drug dealer in S3, back in Star City flash back. Then gets tasered and captured by the Bratva. When we see him again he is tied to a chair and the Russian tells him that his Russian is terrible. So much for great Language skills. He tells Anatoly when he rescued Oliver from the Bratva, ( and Oliver needed rescuing. So much for skills there) Anatoly teaches him how to dislocate his thumbs to get free ( we actually see someone teach Oliver something. Shocking) . Oliver tells Anatoly that he is here to kill Kovar for Tianna. Anatoly takes Oliver to a gang of Russian bratva men. Who he now has to fight in order to begin the process of intitaiton into the bratva. They start hammering on him, and he gets his ass handed to him. One literally flips Oliver onto the ground and stabs him. None of these guys seem to have any skills,martial arts skills aside from that of thugs. And Oliver was trained for a few months by Slade and is losing this fight. You cannot give the “ he was out number excuse” because Oliver in the flash backs has been out numbered before, and still not used the supposed skills he learned from the others. BECAUSE he did not learn from any of them. This is the final year of the time Oliver was away and he still has not learned any of the stuff that he supposely knows in the present. Natural ability my ass.

5x02-When next we meet Oliver , he has lost the fight with the gang of Bratva guys. He and some others are taken to a warehouse of some kind. They have to ring a bell, but to do it they have to get through a few Bratva guys. Oliver gets hit really hard in the chest with a night skick of some kind. His Slade skills seem to be absent here, other wise he would have been able to take that guy. Given Slade was ASIS. The guy did not even try , he just swung and hit Oliver in the chest. And then as Oliver is attempting to get up the guy cracks him across the face. They continue the training, mele vesion. Men are being thrown and smashed against walls. This time around Oliver blocks a easy punch and cracks the guy across the face with a stick. Ducks another easy puch and punches the guy in the chest. And punches him in the face to drop him. Goes to help a man up and that man then kicks one of the offenders. And Oliver made a friend. Next we see them , all the inciates are down and Oliver gets kicked in the side while he is down. They all, including Oliver limp back to the “line”. Oliver concludes that they need to work as a team to diverte their attention in order to ring the bell. The others agree. The others dsitract the offenders , while Oliver ; dodging another easy swing gets by and rings the bell. Oliver makes it but wonce he does the others are executed because they did not. Oliver is upset bc he did not expect the others to be killed. Like WTF, who the hell do you think you are dealing with you idiot. Only person you can trust is yourself is what anatoly says. He reopens a wound and passes out. Zero martial arts skills he suppsoedly learned from Shado, etc are used. The limited stuff he got from Slade was of no use otherwise he would have no trouble with the Bratva guys and would not have needed the other initiats to help him. More bullshit flash backs to expain his god hood.

5x03- Oliver wakes up possibly days later from passing out via his reopening of his wounds. Oliver is questioning whether becoming Bratva was a mistake . Do you think? Oliver doesn't trust the Bratva because he thought the men that were killed in the bell test were inocent. He is told he can leave if he wants. Anatoly takes Oliver to meet a elderly woman who wanted the man who killed her son. The Bratva killed him, one of the men that was executed when Oliver won the bell test ; with their help. In order to defeat Kovar Oliver needs an army and apparently Bratva is the army; an army of thugs? Bratva means brother hood. Brother hood is everything. They will do anything for you. Oliver is to trust the brotherhood , but in the present cannot trust anyone? They are going to cut him up. They all take turns cutting him in a very specific point on his back. Oliver was wounded and was cut up even more, was not trained in anyway except maybe on taking injuries.

5x04- Oliver has passed the next test and now is in a van with Anatoly. He is still wounded, and could possibly pull out his stiches/sutchres. Second test was the knife thing, trusting his brothers ( which makes zero sense in the grand scheme of things). Oliver is going to go after a man that will get him closer to Kovar, man will be arraingned in the morning. He dumps vodka on Oliver to make it look like he has been drinking. Oliver has always been a drunk, rather had experience wtih hangovers so this won't be very difficult for him. And he gets him self arreseted.Oliver is now in jail with a bunch of Russian dudes and the guy that he is trying to get to. The guys name is Fretken ( something like that , its hard to hear.) The guy recognizes Oliver as Bratva. He punches the guy ( a guy unaware with no clear fighting skills ) in the chest or the throat. Given how he is choking , it looks like it was in the throat. The guy is not scared because clearly Kovar is scarier. But its a case of im in here with you not him. Oliver threatens his family instead of the man himself. Oliver tells him to choose between them and Kovar. He gives Oliver the IP address to the deaddrop site Kovar uses. Then Oliver uses the EXACT same move ( the one he uses every fucking season) the one that Slade taught him to snap the guys neck. No shit the same fucking move. The guards don't care to much and take the body out. Oliver comes back to the van and tells Anatoly that he killed the man , shows remores. Third test was apparently them trusting Oliver to do what they say. Oliver is now Bratva. Yet again No training for Oliver.

5x05- Oliver is brought before the Bratva leaders, basically they are questioning him. They want to see if he knows what it means to be Bratva. Basically he is noting but bratva. And now oliver is a mobster. So he went from a playboy to a survivor, to a freelancer , now to a mobster. Oliver and Anatoly drink to being survivors of the Amazo, in a Russian ( bratva run probs) bar. Victor doesn't trust Oliver , that he is truly Bratva and he is right. He still sees Oliver as an outsider. And Oliver and Anatoly drink again after Victor leaves. Still drinking. Soo Oliver still has not told Tianna's family that she is dead. Shcker. A girl in the bar is going to be hurt by fellow Bratva men and Oliver is going to intervene. Oliver is left in the alley way alone with Bratva members that hate him and work for Victor. The Girl was a trick. They slam Oliver against the wall and he gets beat on. So where was the Slade level skills there? He would never have been hurt like that had he been as good as Slade taught him. Oliver is saved by what i can only assume is the “human Target” because he starts speaking American.Correct it was the Human Target. Anatoly hired him to prtect Oliver and deal with Victor.

5x06-Oliver is sitting with Anatoly and teaching him to make a bomb, since he was in the KGB. Oliver states that he failed Chemistry twice in school, but apparently he does have magical powers to learn this, since presnent he knows it. Bullshit. He tells Oliver that he must become like a sponge, that bratva spends off hours learning many trades. More bullshit. He is going to learn this all in a few months. Then he screws up and nearly blows himself and everyone up. Anatoly saves the day by tossing it in a trashcan. So clearly Oliver is horrible at this. A car drives by and shoots up the place and Oliver tackles Anatoly to save him.Apparently Kovar declared war on the Bratva. Oliver is upset that Anatoly did not tell him that Kovar was planning this. Some high raking Bratva memeber arives ; Pakhan Gergor. They know who he is and seems they allowed him in, though Oliver thinks he earned his place. Gergor wants Oliver to be an investor to Kovar , to get closer to him. Once inside he wants Oliver to blow the new Casino up. Oliver is playing the Pre Oliver , telling them how to make the casino sucessful. Oliver has his Russian friend show the other guy the money then while he has his back turned slams the UNAWARE guy face first into a table. Removes the money tray and reveals a bomb, Then points out where to set the charges for maximum damage. Then as they are setting the charges a guy gets the drop on Oliver, hitting him over the head with a gun. (if Oliver was so extensivily trained by Shado, Maseo and Slade even Yao fei then that guy would never have gotten the drop on him.) Oliver is now strapped to a chair, getting beaten up by Kovars men.Kovar himself is there., telling him a story about his mother and grandfather. The story of the turnip is basically a story that the bratva will never take him down. He steps forward and snaps the neck of Olivers bratva pal. And apparently Kovar has known all about Oliver Queen. So the only thing that Oliver has learned is how to fail at making a bomb. And gets beat up by Russia thugs that again clearly have no skills other than that.

5x07- Oliver is now sitting at a table , tied up by Kovars men. They remove the hood and cut his hands free. Oliver is shaking and clearly been beaten/ tortured. Kovar states that Oliver has been tortured for a week straight. Oliver discovers that Tianna's mother is working as a maid for Kovar. Oliver believes that Tianna was right that Kovar is a monster. Kovar says diferently. Shocker. Kovar calls Oliver on killing geogor in the prison, calling Oliver a monster for blindly obeying the bratva. A lie so the Bratva could steal the mans buisness. Oliver gave a IPS black market site to the bratva , now they control it. Oliver stabs Kovar in the hand with a knife. The guards pull a gun on Oliver, he then demands that Kovar get him out of there. So if Oliver is such a master fighter bad ass; extensivly trained by Slade, Yao fei , Shado and Maseo, then how was he not able to easlity take them down and get out himsel? And all the sudden Oliver is behind Kovar. Saying he will open his throat if he twitches. And Oliver is limping as well. He has 2 guns , one pointed at the men behind him and one pointed at Kovars back. Oliver then runs into three more men with guns. Kovar implies that the Bratva were merly using him for what little value Oliver could provide. Or option 3 Oliver is too weak to know the differene. I.E Oliver was never really Bratva, and an idiot. Truth and shocker. Kovar then easily takes the gun from Oliver. Oliver then surrenders, When if he really was such a extensivly trained bad ass then he could have easily busted out. Oliver is being held by two men in the same hallway , swaying on his feet. Oliver challenges Kovar, then gets elbowed in the face for his trouble by Kovar. Oliver goes down. Kovar commands his men to stay out if it, they do. Kovar then Punches Oliver twice exteremly hard once in the face then in the stomach. Once more in the face.Oliver takes a swing and Kovar blocks it and reigns down another punch. Punches Oliver across the face again, then he gets turned around and held in a chock hold. Then Kovar throws Oliver to the floor. Oliver then gets up and starts blocking like a boxer. Preventing Kovar from getting a shot to his sides or face. Oliver then blocks a punch from Kovar and lands a pucnh to Kovars gut. He ducks another Punch from Kovar and lands a punch of his own in Kovars face. Then another. (id also add that these are all the same type of punches oliver used in his fight with Slade, nothing but haymakers. Not the supposed extensive fighting skills gained by training with Slade,etc.) Kovar then gains the upser hand again, blocking Olivers next punch. Then lands two more of his own dropping Oliver to the ground again. Kovar then yanks Oliver up to his knees and is about to punch him when a member of the Bratva arrives. He basically confirms what Kovar stated that the Bratva are in league with Kovar. Oliver is barely standing on his knees. I.E Oliver is a moron. So once again if Oliver was so extensivly trained by Slade, Shado , Maseo and yao Fei in fighting then why is it he is getting his ass handed to him by these Russian thugs. He should have been able to easily taking them down.

5x08- crossover ep

5x09-Oliver S1 present Flash Back.

5x10 – Oliver is taken by the Bratva guys and they are interogating him, Oliver is introuble for just trying to kill Kovar but not for the bratva, Oliver turns it around saying they , the bratva are betraying the Bratva brotherhood for having a deal with Kovar. Kovar is a government agent. Oliver vendetta betrays the bratva, the Bratva leaders deal benifets the brotherhood. This guy is ( captain i think) and he is going to get oliver to obey , even if it means to beat it into him.Guy finds a pic of Laurel , and thinks the vendetta is about Laurel. Oliver explains Laurel's picture. Oliver thinks he has been made into a mosnter. The Bratva Captain may have betrayed the Bratva, Kovar has him on his payroll. They then start beating him. Oliver has only been in Russia for a few months, and apparently thinks he knows everything. Shocker. Oliver does not believe that the Bratva Captain is playing Kovar. Oliver does not understand that circumstance makes a thing posion or Nector . ( weird line) Without the island Oliver would be a harmless american douche bag. Obviously. Oliver has to give his obediance or he dies. Again obviously. Before he can kill Oliver, shots are heard and arrows as well. Bratva guy/Captain takes Oliver hostage to use as a shield. An arrow is fired and hits the guy, pinning his hand to the wall as well as throwing him against it as well. ( BS.) A woman appears in LOA gear and it looks like Laurel but is actually Talia Al Ghul .She only says “ Hello, Mr. Queen my name is Talia. Ive been Looking for you. “ she does not yet say her last name. Hopefully not. Because that would make zero sense. She has an accent and WAY cooler gear than Nyssa. So once more. If Oliver is so extensivly trained by Slade,Shado and Maseo in fighting then how did he get his ass handed to him by these Bratva thugs? Why did he need Talia to rescue him? And present wise: “ Im a quick study”? That is utter Bullshit, these flash backs prove otherwise.

5x11-The Talia ep. Basically Talia trained Yao Fei and he was LOA; Seriously!? And Talia is an archer ( shocking with this show). She wants to train Oliver, and they make a deal; she helps him take down a man from the Bratva/Russia and he will listen to what she has to say. Talia fires an arrow and draws the gaurds to her. Oliver takes on the main guys. Oliver takes one easy henchman down and uses him as a shield. Then shoots the other ones. Throws one guy like hurls him. And then shoots him. Using none of the supposed fighting skills he has learned. Takes on a few more using the skills he learned from Slade. Knees one guy into a car using what is similar to the anarky fight steroids. Oliver then beats the leader to death with a gun while Talia smiles. Really did she even do anything. She fired one arrow to what distract them? And now that he has killed the guy she and Oliver can talk. Talia baited him to get Oliver to remember who he is, a monster. Oliver's father wrote a list of all the Kovars, etc in Star City. But Oliver keeps looking for other fights. She tells Oliver she has been there ( she was afraid of what her father wanted for her.) She pulls out his S1 present suit, she gave him it. She tells him that when the monster becomes someone else, something else that he is free to be Oliver Queen. WTF! Also utterly disappointing because it would have been cooler if he made the suit and bow himself. Talia will help him become ready. UGH

5x12- So Apparently within 1 episode Oliver can remember that he can catch an arrow and throw an enemy up into a ceiling?? Apparently “ believing in the dark and embracing it means he can instantly become a weapon?” BS. So apparently his other teachers agreed that Oliver was not that great of a student. Talia found him because she wants him to correct his mistakes. To return home. Oliver hunts down one of the men on the “list “ and kills him in cold blood. He failed starling city. It seems once again we are to assume that Oliver trained with Talia and became a fantastic student in like one episode? He is basically doing the same shit as previous seasons. No actual training. He crosses off a name on the list. Talia wants him to honor the vow he made to his father and not the Bratva. Oliviver wants to talk to anatoly. Anatoly is beaten up, badly. Gregor did it to him because he questioned his deal with Kovar. Oliver wants to kill Gregor. Oliver was going to leave the Bratva. LITERALLY no training. So apparently Talia is just teaching him to become a monster; to embrace the darkness?

5x13- Wild dog flash backs.

5x14-Oliver is planning to take down Gregor with Anatoly in the infirmary ( medical facility?) , to take down gregor and a bathhouse. Anatoly says no, that bathouse is gregors turf. That they need an army. Basically they need an army loyal to only Anatoly. Oliver tells him that he will stay until he takes out gregor. Anatoly then realizes that Oliver has changed his mind about the bratva brother hood thing. Anatoly states that Oliver is the “sin eater” . Oliver notices that the same orderly has passed by the room 5 times. Gregor is about to attack.. Oliver takes Anatoly through the hospital, a guy pops out and fire a gun , Oliver and Anatoly duck into a corridor with stairs. The Russian THUG ( who only has a gun and clearly no training.) enters the same stair way, where Oliver takes him by surprise, and throws him against the wall,and hits him in the troat. Then takes his gun. They make their way down the stairs, and Oliver ( somehow knows there is a guy coming when there is no sound) turns and shoots the second guy coming through. They make it through to the basement area, through some plastic stips. They see another guy coming behind them and take cover. Anatoly states that the coup against gregor maybe short lived. Oliver states that they are going to have to make a run for it. ( okay why? If Oliver is supposedly this bad ass fighterand killer already? If he is supposedly so extensively trained by the past people) 2 guys? Oliver is going to run from 2 guys? Greogor himself is there and states that he will forgive him if he hands over Oliver. Oliver is about to surrender, because if he does Gregor will spare Anatorly. Okay again Oliver is afraid of these guys? When he is supposedly so extensively trained?? Only one will get out alive. Anatoly states that he is not going to let Oliver suffer for his sins. Oliver gets up and is about to surrender. Oliver puts his gun down. Oliver reaches forward and grabs the gun from the worst trained Bratva guy ever. Then uses him as a human shield as he shoots the other men. Not anything we have not seen before in S1. Anatoly tries to reach for a gun but Gregor stops him and puts a gun to his head. Obviously Oliver is going to shoot Gregor. Oliver yet again has not trained at all with Talia or anyone. All Talia has really done is give Oliver a verbal push into the right direction, something that he SHOULD have already known.

5x15- Oliver saves Anatoly by coming up behind gregor and pointing a gun at him. Instead of simply shooting him?? More men show up and Oliver is outnumbered. Anatoly is guilty of brining in an american to the brotherhood. Anatoly challenged Gregor and the Bratva agree because of the code. Basically Anatloy called Gregor to account and the others examine him, if he keeps the position Oliver and Anatoly die. Oliver goes to get evidence on Gregor. Breaking into Kovars home. Oliver drops in from the ceiling in his S1 Arrow suit.Turns on a coputer ( is Kovars office?) a Computer that is not even secure?? seriously?? Kovar has armed men every wear gaurding his house, but does not secure his computer? Turns out the gregor exam is basically everyone votes for a Bratva Captain. Gregor or Anatoly. They all side with Gregor until Oliver bursts in.Apparently Gregor had 40 million rubles that he did not spread to the brotherhood and now the bratva have changed sides. Annnd a shootout insues.

5x16- Gregor has more power and men than Anatoly and Oliver, and the Bratva. A civil war has ensued. Oliver says they need to kill him. Oliver is going to use the hood persona to find and kill Gregor. ( It should be noted that Talia is no longer in Russia at this point and has not been seen since 5x12 flashbacks. So he no longer has her as a supposed teacher.) Victor apparently has found Gregors location and Oliver is now dressed as the hood. Oliver tells anatoly that he met a woman ( Talia ) and she taught him how to give his darkness an idetitiy. So all Talia really did was give him a suit, a bow and tell him to take a codename, as well as a verbal kick in the pants to get him to go home. Anatoly ( correctly tells Oliver ) that he cannot simply put on a suit and take a codename to seperate the darkess from him. The darkness is there. Its him, a part of him. Oliver is an idiot as per usual and beleives her. Puts his hood up. Anatoly tells him again that he is wrong that Talia is wrong , that she will be the source of his greatest pain. Gregor is at the ice rink watching hockey practice. Telling his men that they need to convene the Bratva to tell them that they have traitors in their mist. ( this is the broad daylight) There is gunfire heard. Two men go up the stairs to the hallway and open the door leading to the bleachers. They find to Bratva men dead with Arrows in their chest. As the guard turns to go back to gregor or continue checking. He is shot with an arrow. Two men with guns are walking through the stadium hallway Oliver shoots one with an arrow and the other guy turns and while his back is turned Anatyoly (??) comes up behind him and takes him down with a sleeper hold, and snaps his neck. Oliver does his growly voice and Anatoly is looking at him like what the hell are you doing. Gregor still sits in the bleachers wondering what is going on and why his men are taking so long. He sends three more men. Then ( this is utterly stupid.) Anatoly is at the top of the bleachers firing his gun at the Bratva men loyal to Gregor. And Oliver ( who is SUPPOSEDLY soo extensivily trained) is running beind him Not to mention Anatoly just stands their shooting while Gregors men are smart and take cover. Anatoly takes out at least 3 men. One makes it onto the ice. But gets hit by Oliver's arrow from the other side. Oliver had made it to the otherside and fired his arrow. He jumps down into the ( penalty box?) and gets takled on the way down. The roll, the guy takes a swing at Oliver. Oliver catches his arm and forces it into his chest. He then cuts his throat wtih either the mans own knife or his own arrow. Then jumps onto the ice and runs across. Slides and then takes out another man who made it to the ice with an arrow. Oliver fires an arrow at Gregor , who was attempting to flee. Oliver then jumps into where gregor fell. Gregor then says ( this is the stupidest fucking thing ever) “oliver is that you”?? Seriously?! You are looking rght up at him and he has no mask. Olivers then says no its the man who is going to kill you. Gregor tells him you kill me you kill your self. Oliver then rips out the arrow.

5x17- Oliver and Anatoly bring a seriously injured Gregor back to the bar. They are going to help him so he can tell them what Kovar is up to. Oliver begins to pull the bullets out of Gregors arm. Everyone will wither and die at Oliver's touch according to gregor. Gregor is dead and they need a new Bratva Captian. Anatoly is the new Bratva Captain because he has senority. Anatoly has to meet with Kovar as the new Captain otherwise something will be up. Oliver is going to meet with Tianna's mom in order to find out about Kovars plans. One of Kovar's men appears with a gun and olver easily gets it from an older Russian man and kills him. And apparently Merlyn is working with Kovar, maybe to help him create the Earthquake device. Becuase why would he otherwise. Kovar wants to overthrow Russian government. Instead of going home Oliver is going to help the Bratva stop Kovar. Becasue apparently now he actually cares about his brotherhood. Oliver as Hood/Russian goes to the docks to stop Kovar. Anatoly tells Oliver its pretty easy to think first and kill people later. Kovar has access to Sarin Gas, most likely from Merlyn.Oliver fires an arrow off and hits some drumbs which may have already been filled with explosives as Kovar arrives. Fire fight ensues. Kovar tells his men to beware of the Sarin Gas, but purposely aims for the canisters releasing the gas and killing a bratva member. Oliver then enters the fray using a move that ( apparently he learned via ossmosis from Talia?) grabbing one guy and hopping up and wrapping his legs around the other and bringing them both down. Again non trained Russian thugs with guns. And puts an arrow in each of them.Oliver kills the truck driver , but Anatoly has been taken by Kovar, thrown aside. And now Kovar has the truck. Victor is wondering where oliver was when he gets back to the bar. Vicotr wants to honor the deal with Kovar but Oliver knows that Kovar will kill all of them when he takes out the government. Oliver is going to torture one of Kovar men as the hood. Oliver is going to skin the guy alive if he doesn;t talk. A technique apparently Talia taught him? That i can believe since she seems to be only talking. Anatorly is freaked out by what Oliver becomes. Oliver knows where Kovar is. Anatorly says that the mask and hood change nothing that Oliver is a monster ( truth). The guy gave up easliy and Oliver kept going, he is a monster. Kovar is going to kill key members of the government with Sarin Gas at his casino. Oliver goes to see Tianna;s mom. Oliver tells her that her children are dead. But does not say that he was the one who did it. Oliver sneaks into the casino, taking out non trained Russians as he goes. Kills both gaurds in the control room, an arrow to the chest each. Two guys who are the worst trained gaurds ever. Oliver sees that Tianna's mom is being held buy Kovar. And Goes to help. Vidotr betrays Anatorly and them. Shocker. Oliver finds Tianna's mom dead. Oliver simply walks through the halls and fires off arrow into the worst gaurds ever. And apparently has steriods back then becuase he lifts a guy up off the ground and slams him into a wall? Yeah right. Kovar BS's the government members and begins to gas them. Oliver merely walks into the room and fires two arrows into the guys gaurding the gas, again worst gaurds ever. And shuts off the gas, and then is confronted by Kovar. Oliver fires two arrows into Kovars guys. Perfectly aimed ?? again yeah right. Oliver tries some jump move and fails. They trade blows, and Kovar gets oliver into a sleeper hold. Annnd gets the hood off, disovering its oliver. Oliver gets slammed into a shelf and is being strangled. By a boxer.And he is supposeldy trained by Talia and Slade.He mocks Tianna and her family and then Oliver gets the upper hand and flips them after shoving Kovar up against the same shelf. Victor is dead via Sarin Gas. Oliver throws Kovar into the room that was gased ( apparently only Victor dies in a room full of Sarin Gas?? BS. They trade blows again And Kovar gets Oliver onto the table. Kovar actually displays a grapling move and gets oliver down and has his leg. Oliver gets free ( and will probs suddenly know said move.) Oliver then gets the upper hand and swings himself up onto Kovars shoulders. Flipping them to the ground. Kovar gets a hold of a knife and stabbes Oliver. Oliver gets the upper hand again cutting Kovar with his own knife. Kovar is on his knees and oliver killed him because he could. Oliver is now Bratva Captain because he killed Kovar. BS since it was supposed to be about seniority. Apparently it as so all Bratva would know what kind of man he is. A killer. Seems Anatoly knows what Prometheus knows , that the Arrow/hood is a lie so Oliver can kill becuase he likes it. Anatoly also knew that it would fall apart. Merlyn helps Kovar. ( id guess the shit from JB's comic is now coming into play.UGH)

5x18- Oliver decides to go back to Lian yu to make it look like he was on the island for 5 years. He gives Anatoly 48 hours. Anatoly wants Oliver to help him do a hiest to get medicne for sick Russians. Oliver drops in from the roof and starts killing zero trained security gaurds with his arrows. First one he drops right on top of and wraps his arm around then stabs him with an arrow in the chest. Second he goes under, pushing away the guys gun and stabbing him in the chest with an arrow, then used him as a human shield. Last one he bounces off a shelf and then tacles the other by going over him and flipping him over himself, lifts him up and snaps his neck.

5x19-NO Oliver flashbacks.

5x20- S4 present day flashbacks

5x21- Oliver and Anatoly return to Lian Yu to make it look like Oliver was there for the whole 5 years. Oliver learned to fly via his father from vintage planes. Oliver places an Arrow into the mask of Slades former mask.Oliver visits the graves of his father, yao fei , shado, etc. They talk about how and why he becomes the hood. And that others will pay for Oliver's sins. Anatoly is to contact a fisherboat and make them come to the island to collect Oliver in 48 hours. And he is going to fake the the beard as well. Anatoly left. And as oliver gets the bone fire ready , Kovar shows up and tranqs Oliver.

5x22—Oliver spends the entire episode being tortured and halucinating various past/flashback frineds. So no training, not learning. And serious injuries. To the point where he almost kills himself with a gun that only has ONE bullet in it. Also he was given a drug that messes with his mind, making him relive past injures as if they were happening for the first time.

5x23—Oliver voice over. Kovar and his men discover Oliver is missing, that he has escaped. He orders his men to find him but no one is allowed to kill him but Kovar. Oliver is running through the forest straight to the box with his bow and suit, so he can get ready for when the PLANNED boat to come get him. So he can make it look like he was there for 5 years. But Kovars men find him, pointing AK-47s at him. Oliver starts to get down on his knees then suddenly goes low and shoves all 3 at the waist and grabs a knife from the middle guys belt. Stabbs him in what looks to be his throat. Then does nothing more than slash the second guys throat with a horizontal strike. And stabs the third in the chest. NONE of these three were trained men. And Olivers moves were not that of someone who was extensively trained by Slade/Shado/Yao Fei or Shado. Oliver then takes the AK-47 and unloads and kills three more men. No special martial arts moves just a gun. Kovar says ( after learning Oliver killed 6 men) that he is going to end this. Two men are still looking for Oliver and come upon the AK he used pointed barrel up, stuck in the ground. One if these men ( the stupidest, non trained men ever) kneels down and suddenly one of the booby traps ( from S3 present) goes off and a swinging log with spikes impales him. ( when exactly did Oliver find time to do that? It was not in S1, nor S2, S3 he was in China, S4 he was playing undercover man , and he was in Russia for majority of S5 unitl these final few days ; Of which he was being held and tortured. This is bullshit. No way in any of these years would he have time to do this) . The other guy having avoided said trap, gets taken down buy Oliver using ( get this?? ) the same fucking move that Oliver does ever time. The one from the pilot 1x01 present when he says “ no one can know my secret” Is this the only move Oliver knows in the “ 5 years of hell” It looks like it. And oliver takes the mans AK and begins looking for Kovar and his buddy. Suddenly he hears a helicopter. That begins to strafe him, firing repeatedly at him, Oliver runs and takes cover behing a tree stump. Runs again and gets fired at again, takes refuge again behind a fallen log. Then Oliver fires back ( this utterly illogical and stupid) and the pilot of the chopper just sits there , hovering in the air and lets himself be shot at. Instead of moving the chopper away. BS. The chopper goes down. Oliver then goes to investigte to make sure they are dead. Finds Kovar there, injured and getting up. Oliver tries to kill hm by simply firing the AK. But he is out of ammo. Oliver takes off his jacket and starts to walk forward to him to kill him. Kovar is still down, his arm/shoulder injured. He lashes out, he was faking, and slices Oliver in the chest with some sort of blade. Kovar then lunges at oliver with a horizontal downward strike, with his right hand going down to the left. That Oliver blocks with his own right hand and knockes it out of his hands using his right hand. Kovar throws a left cross, which Oliver ducks. Kovar then comes up with his right arm/hand again , Oliver catches it and ducks out of the way, as its revealed Kovar has a gun, the gun fire goes off to Olivers right side. Oliver then grabs his wrist and gun attempting to get the gun from Kovars right hand. Only for kovar to use his own other hand to force the gun into Olivers chest. And forces him back against a tree with the barrel still against his chest. Oliver then manages to force the gun and Kovar back and knees him in the gut. He wrenches sideays and gets the gun out of Kovars hand. While he does this Kovar then comes at him with his left hand in a cross, Oliver ducks it. Then Oliver punches him in the chest three times . He then tries to throw a punch at kovars face, the first one is blocked by Kovar, the second lands across his face. He is then grabbed by kovar, literally just grabbed like the last few punches did not phase him. ( not surprising since he wiped the floor with Oliver once already and was nothing more than a boxer) He grabs Oliver and across the chest with both arms and forces Oliver back onto the still burning helicopter.Which then burns his back. Then just tosses Oliver away. Kovar takes a swing with his left arm that Oliver blocks , he swings with his left which Oliver blocks. He tries to grab for Oliver to then punch him, Oliver uses his elbow to block and force it away. Then Kovar comes at him with his right arm Which Oliver also blocks. He then pucnches at Kovars chest with his right arm, Kovar Blocks that. Oliver manages to grab Kovar around the chest and neck and spins him and throws him to thr ground. Then Oliver runs at him ( does a bull shit move he was never taught at all.) he grabs Kovars shoulders and jumps up wrapping his left leg against Kovars waist and his right around his kneck. Then swinging his own body away flips Kovar to the ground.While falling to the ground himself. Kovar takes a swing at Oliver ( after getting up) with his left arm which Oliver catches and then uses his own right arm and grabs Kovar with the other under Kovars right arm and takes his kneck, then flips him to the ground again. Oliver then grabs Kovar around the kneck in a sleeper hold, then as he tries to snap his kneck ( apparently Oliver cannot do it like that??) switches to his good old fashion every flashback season move: 1x01 present pilot “ you cannot know my secret: kneck snap. And Kovar is dead. Oliver then gets changed and makes it off the island like we see in 1x01.

So S5 Oliver yet again learned ZIP fighting. He was trained by Talia to become something else; mentally. She taught him stratagey. But she did not teach him to fight. Oliver got his ass handed to him repeatedly by Russian thugs who are not trained, when he himself was supposedly oooh so extensvily trained by Shado, yao fei , and Slade, and Maseo. BULL SHIT

Oliver was only trained by Slade between S1/2 for a few months.

Oliver was trained by Shado between S1/2 for a few months with the bow ( he trained the rest of the time by himself at S2 end.

Oliver was NOT trained by Maseo or Tatsu , She only taught him a breathing technique.

Oliver was NOT trained by anyone in S4 and spent the first half of the time getting his ass handed to him by a petty drug dealer. Then the second half undercover back on the island.

Oliver was NOT trained in S5 by the bratva because he spent the entire time either getting his ass handed to him BY them, or simply firing guns. Talia taught him statagey, and to become another person.

So Season 1 maybe a bit of training , maybe like a day or at least a couple of weeks . But as Slade says, he had LIMITED sucess training Oliver. Shado attempted, but in little amount of time was only able to teach him the Bow. He in no way was trained by Yeoh Fei,

Season 2 a bit more eskriima training and a few more months of Slade training, But I reiterate you cannot become an expert in only a few months. He had no training from Shado either otherwise we would have seen those skills, against the people that he fought. Plus she was killed right away. Then Slade went nuts for the majority of the Season.

Season 3 no training at all and he is still at season 1-2 level. Oliver and CO spent the majority of the time running, doing missions , Oliver torturing people, then running after Shrieve trying to stop the virus.

And now Season 4 he is back on the island and he is still at that level and under cover. So there would be no time to train or rather be taught, and who exactly is going to teach him? The labor soldiers who have to skill and are already suspicious of him?

S5 was nothing more than Oliver brawling in fight clubs. Of which he was using NONE of the supposed extenive skills he learned from past teachers. If he as soooo well trained by them , why were these Russian thugs kicking the crap out of him using easy moves that Oliver should have been able to deflect. It also turns out that Oliver had a wig and a fake beard to make it look like he was on the island, and the booby traps were Bullshit.

I even tried to reason in Off screen training, but that still does not mach up . Because if he was trained off screen by Maseo, Slade, Yeoh Fei and Shado Talia then when we see him fight on screen he should be at their level or very near to it ,but his clearly not. All of his on screen fighting is horrible and at limited level and in no way matches any of them and definitely not present Oliver.

That is past level training that in no way matches up or equals Oliver being the 'Expert’ fighter that we see in the present. The only thing that these flashbacks actually show us is how he got most of his scars and how he met various people, there has never been any training. He had one jump kick that he used in present on the new “count’, on the roof top, that was USED on him by Maseo. So because it was USED on him that means he knows how to do it? there was never any training from Maseo, again if there was wouldn’t flashback Oliver have used it when fighting? He did not. Then there was the pressure point tough that Yeoh Fei USED on him in 1x12. So again, because it was USED on him he knows it? that is ridiculous. There was no way for him to have taught it to him given he was captured before that , and as of 1x12 he was working for the bad guys. And the times before that he was treating Oliver for the arrow he himself put through him.

There was never really time for Shado to have trained him, again when they first met they were trying to stay alive, she only had time to teach the Bow. Then , in her words , ” a few months" later Oliver had been trained more by Slade, but clearly not that extensively because he was still not that great of a fighter. Then immediately Shado gets killed in Season 2, So there was never any time for her to teach him. All the moves that are in the present that Oliver uses are the ones that Yeoh Fei used ON him, NOT actually taught to him.

Then Slade is critically injured in the beginning of Season 2, then gets the super drug and goes nuts for the rest of the Season. Slade only had a few months to teach Oliver, and it was not a lot. because you cannot master martial arts in a few months. And Oliver clearly did not.

The only thing that Tatsu taught Oliver was that breathing exercise. She hated Oliver for the majority of the Season until the end. She did not teach him anything. And Maseo spent the majority of the time beating the crap out of Oliver in the beginning, and if Oliver was trained by Yeoh Fei, Shado or had even more training from Slade;which he did not, then Maseo would not have been a problem. Plus with all the missions that Waller had them doing, the torture she had Oliver preform, Maseo going missing, Tatsu getting captured, Oliver getting captured again by Waller and tortured, then working for shrieve, running from Waller , then running after Shrieve, trying to stop the virus, looking for the cure and failing. Exactly when would Maseo would Maseo have had time to teach Oliver? He did not.

Now as to the present practicing/training that we see Oliver do, i believe that he is practicing what he knows. But again where did he learn all this? Because it was not from the people he met in the 5 years he was gone. A lot of what he is practicing looks like “Wing Chung”, the dummy that he always uses. Now it takes years upon years to master that, you cannot just do it in a year or even the 5 missing years that he was gone. Because with everything that was happening , when would he have had the time? Plus, if he decided to learn it present time, exactly how would he have the time then either? He was always out on the streets killing the people “poisoning his city”, or trying to pretend to be Oliver Queen to his family. There is no way that he could become an expert in that in just a year or even the missing time, because you can’t.

Then in Season 2 Oliver supposedly learning Jui jitsu when he got back in season 2 , present time, give the amount of time he spends out on the streets and dealing with family. I will never believe that he was able to become and expert in that.

Then in Season 3 he spends the duration from 3x20-3x21 in Ra’s Al Ghuls care, so that’s maybe a couple of weeks .Then he comes out of there equal to Ra’s? No that is also ridiculous , there is no way he could have became equal to Ra’s, a man who was virtually immortal and had decades, if not centuries of training. The only thing that Merlyn taught Oliver was the sword for some time, maybe a couple of months. That i maybe can believe, but not at all do i believe that it would have allowed him to defeat Ra’s. Ra’s had lifetimes worth of training. Oliver has a few months worth, a year at the most.

S4 Oliver trained with his team a few times.

S5 we saw practcally nothing.

None of Oliver’s training matches or equals him being this Expert/Master Martial Artist that can defeat all these opponents when he really only had , in Shado’s words “ a few months” of training from Slade. I will never believe that he is , as Oliver said “ a weapon” , with the actual training that he got , its unrealistic and unbelievable .

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