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cucumberteapot · 10 months

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I feel like people aren't as open to discussing E-42 Prowle because there is so much about the character we don't know or the films haven't explicitly told us yet. However, I'd like to think writers have presented us with enough information that we can make a strong assessment as to not to what kind of role they'll serve (I think it's fair to say Miles G is going to be an antagonist later-turned hero or anti-hero in BSTV), but what kind of character this is and how they challenge Miles as the main character.

I'd like to discuss one crucial aspect of piece of body language and physical characterisation. This right here:

This is our first proper shot of E-42 Prowler and it closely parallels Aaron Davis in then first movie when he's watching Miles run away.

Now I want to pay mind that in deliberately holding off the plot twist of Aaron being the Prowler, the audience is given no key identifiers as to the Prowler's true identity. He doesn't even have any lines of dialogue until Miles is hiding in his apartment and we after we get the reveal. In every sense of the term, Prowler is a gun for hire. Except he doesn't use guns. The point is he is a hitman. He consistently does what he's told by Kingpin - "You can count on me, sir. I don't ever quit." But then when he's confront with the reveal of the kid he's been hunting is his own nephew and he must choose between his identities as Aaron and as Prowler, that loyalty is severed and it costs him his life.

Which leads us to this specific visual of E-42 Prowler dangling from the rafter before dropping down to face Miles. The camera doesn't cut away from how he drops. Instead we're put entirely in Miles' perspective as to this guy's every move. Between us and Miles, the crew don't want us to miss anything. So what are we seeing here?

Well firstly I think it's clear this is something the Prowler we know wouldn't do because this is a merge of personas of Miles as the Prowler and as a 15-year old. This reads to us as something a lanky kid would do on a jungle-gym, and the fact E-42 Prowler doesn't take his eyes off Miles not only demonstrates curiosity but almost an invitation to play. Not literally, but I believe this Prowler is someone who likes to toy with their victims (which he see a bit of towards the end). And in this case, Prowler is definitely testing Miles from the moment he starts talking about ideas counteractive to his reality - That Aaron Davis could be a "good guy" and that the Prowler identity is something detrimental to the E-42 dimensions' existence. Granted, Miles is speaking from the experience of someone who's Prowler didn't provide income for their family and represent a symbol of strength like the Spiderman identity, so it's a no brainer E-42 Prowler views Miles as antithetical to his state of being. Another thing is that this is how Miles hangs from his webs throughout the movie (under the clocktower, before going through the portal to mumbattan, etc.), so it's a nice consistent characterisation between the two.

But that only leads us into what separates them. After keeping their focus directly on the other, they have their first exchange:

Prowler: Your dad is still alive? Miles: What? Prowler: Your father... You said he's still alive. Miles: Yeah. Prowler: Oh.

Okay, let's dissect this. Specifically Miles' confusion at to why Prowler's asking this because the audience is in the same boat but for very different reasons.

Now I don't want to make assumptions but even before Prowler unmasks, Miles already knows it's his counterpart and his question isn't so much as not knowing but a request for confirmation. However the reason why Miles is confused here is because he expected that same curiousity about identity from his counterpart - not about relatives. Prowler doesn't ask who Miles is even though he doesn't really know, and when he gets his answer that, yes, Jefferson is alive in the other universe, his reaction is played off as dismissive, separating his identity and priorities from Miles. Whatever it is, considering it's the first thing he's asks, this is a vital piece of information for Prowler but his reaction removes any possibility he can be negotiated with... which Miles continuously fails at.

Miles: Who are you? Prowler: My name is Miles Morales. But you... You can call me the Prowler. Miles: If I don't get home, our dad is going to die. Prowler: Your dad. Miles: Please... You have to let me go. Prowler: And why would I do that?

That then leads us on to Miles' question because he's not only asking for his kidnapper's name, he's asking for who this person is. And in turn who we see isn't particularly angry or vindictive - we'll get to that. Instead, Prowler's expression is complete desolation.

It's only when Miles further insinuates they are the same by referring to Jefferson as "our dad", does he shoot back with "your dad". It's quick because this Prowler is still separating himself from this version of himself and the idea he could or would've been or had anything like his life. Finally Miles accepts that they are separate and ask Prowler to let him go, but Prowler has another rhetorical question which implies although he considers this Miles separate to himself, he still has use for him somehow. Which honestly if you had this strength-is-all mindset, it might feel rewarding to have captured this part of yourself that you considered weak - which for all Prowler knows, Miles is just this inferior version of himself who got decked in one hit.

And then lastly we have these two shots here where Prowler raises his "claw" beside Miles' head and sizes him up.

If Aaron can scare Miles by punching the sand out of a boxing bag while Prowler only has to put his fist on it, you tell me who's more terrifying?

But truthfully this last non-conversational exchange before Miles stares Prowler back down is evident that not only is Prowler going to beat the shit out of Miles, but that Miles' "flippy, little sassy jokes" as Spot puts it, is not going to help him here. Because if he wants to survive, he's going to have to match Prowler's energy. This film has a bittersweet ending not because Miles is captured but because Miles has internalised what he's been fighting against the whole movie - The emotional desolation of being Spider-man that lets them deal with or appear indifferent to the harm or death of people around them and it's exemplified when he applies Peter's first lesson of being Spider-man:

"Don't watch the mouth. Watch the hands."

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evilkitten3 · 3 months

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Hey, thanks for the reply! Also sorry for using comments instead of reblogging, I own only a blog with goofy fancomics and I don't want to mix plot discussions into it. I hope you don't mind. If you want, you can cite this whole reply in another post, but I'm ok with anything.

When it comes to narrator reliability, I go for "reliable unless proven otherwise" approach. I agree here, that picking Obito's statements was not the best way to prove things because he had been proved to talk nonsense before. On the other hand, with how few glimpses of Madara's PoV we have, they are consistent with Hashirama's tale except for VoTE fight where Madara intentionally tricked Hashirama about his goals and the outcome. So I'm going to consider Hashi mostly reliable, also because his account is the last one we get, so if Kishimoto planned it to be false, not showing Madara's contradicting PoV (or at least hinting at it, which we don't get either) would be plain bad writing (still doesn't give 100% certainty, but I'd take this over the "God of the gaps" approach).

Even if we don't consider the info on Izuna's dying words true, Hashirama says that Madara had claimed that Izuna had been killed by Senju (also states it as a reason for not being able to trust Senju enough to make a truce), and Madara later confirms that Izuna had been in fact killed by Tobirama (the "Tobirama pin cushion" scene in War Arc). Also, we were never given an explanation for Uchihas turning their backs on Madara other than

prolonging the war

Madara allegedly stealing Izuna's eyes. Both these things trace back to Izuna's death. One can try to give other reasons, but this would be entering headcanon territory at this point, so something that the reader wants to be true rather than something that the reader has actually been given.

As for Tobirama, he plays a way bigger role in his and Madara's paranoia than Madara, and his prejudice is largely ungrounded (however understandable because of his own traumas), but here are some things Madara did that could rile him up:

refusing truce for so long, stemming from Izuna's death (according to Hashirama)

pulling off the whole "it's either me or him" stuff twice (first one is when Tobirama calls Madara a lunatic, so this had started before the founding of Konoha): this also fits thematically with Izuna's death, because having no living brothers left would have put Hashirama and Madara in the same spot

attempting to nuke Konoha with Kurama (even if we assume that Madara didn't want to do it, he intentionally made this impression to lure out Hashirama, so Tobirama can't be blamed for believing it) which had been partially caused by Uchihas rejecting Madara which had been caused by… etc. Tobirama explicitly says that his persecution of Uchihas was to avoid the rise of another Madara, but this is Tobirama we are speaking of, so take this with a grain of salt. Also, through grooming Obito, Madara played a significant indirect role in Uchiha massacre, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it intentional on his side (we can't tell to what extent Obito was guided by "Madara's will"). So in the end, his actions do bear characteristics of a self-fulfilling prophecy, although I admit that it's debatable how much Uchiha opression could have been avoided without Madara fueling every bad stereotype, because the prejudice didn't start with him. No Obito and no Kurama attack could have at least remove a convenient pretext for the massacre from the story, but it's absolutely possible that Konoha elders would have found another one.

I'm not saying all of this to prove that Madara wouldn't have pursued IT with Izuna alive (in fact, it would be interesting to see BZ sway Madara without killing Izuna). My point is that there are too many factors that more or less directly trace back to Izuna's death to confidently state the opposite.

entirely fair! and don't worry, plenty of people prefer commenting for various reasons; no offense taken

honestly, i tend to be more or less the same, although i actually think hashirama's story was probably pretty solid; he doesn't try at all to make claims for the stuff he wasn't there for. he doesn't even say "madara was definitely standing outside the window" he says "tobirama looked out the window and i found a leaf that looked like the one madara looked at the village through"

having said that, from what i remember, at some point kishimoto did end up pressed for time, and that seriously affected the quality of his work (and... let's be honest, the war arc was never naruto's best writing. the war arc wishes it had what the wave arc had)

i think the reason we never heard hashirama's take on why madara's clan distanced itself from him is bc hashirama can't really,,,, comprehend that? like madara explicitly says "no one in my family likes me :(" and hashirama goes "i don't believe that" like he has any way of knowing XD

personally, i'm fairly certain that tobirama killed izuna, and i have no reason to think otherwise (i guess it's possible that black zetsu personally snuck an infection into his wound somehow just to make sure he kicked it and madara got his eyes, but like you said that'd just be headcanon territory, and also it kinda doesn't matter since neither madara nor hashirama would have any way of knowing that, so neither would we)

frankly i personally like the idea that tobirama was just scared shitless of madara, but it's also possible that he held a grudge over the whole "kill u or ur bro" thing. probably not the other stuff tbh, since tobirama never seemed all that invested in the idea of a village before it was founded (probably just. didn't think it could happen), and madara trying to nuke the village didn't happen until after he'd left, so while it may have affected tobirama's relationship with the other uchiha, it didn't really affect his relationship with madara.

obito's role in the massacre was,,,, really badly handled tbh. and also part of why i suspect that the original concept of "tobi" (from a meta perspective) was meant to be madara's ghost possessing obito's mostly dead corpse. madara had a reason to resent the uchiha clan (although i don't think the character we meet in the war arc would've done that, even if the character we met after tobi's "reveal" might have), but obito never really got one. there were fan theories, but not a lot of solid canon evidence. it might've happened, since both obito and madara were justifying everything they did with "well they'll all be fine when the infinite tsukuyomi kicks in, so whatever"

if you keep izuna alive and don't remove black zetsu from the equation, then it's less of a "would madara still do this" question and more of a "how long until black zetsu manages to cause izuna's death and lead madara to do this" question. zetsu needed madara to get the eternal mangekyou sharingan, after all. if it was possible to do that while keeping izuna alive then that'd certainly be interesting, but it's not something zetsu would particularly care to pursue, especially when izuna dying makes it much more likely that madara will take his eyes. but black zetsu is black zetsu, so i'm sure it could figure something out.

if you take out black zetsu entirely, then it's hard to say if madara would've come up with the eye of the moon plan on his own, but i do still think he would've seen the village as a failure and left in the end. like you said, it's hard to say for sure, though.

#naruto #naruto shippuden #uchiha madara #meta #long post

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starlightshore · 3 years

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barring the no mercy route being an influence in this case, how would you describe chara's personality? I cannot describe them well at all despite them being my favorite character. they're too complex lol. all of the meta i can find at this time as them described at both extremes of innocent & evil but i don't think that's accurate

TW: discussions of canon dark topics such as abuse , death and suicide

i love talking about chara, i've talked about them at length before lmao. thank u for giving me a chance to talk about my beloved child.

you can actually read a character exploration i'm doing in a mini-arc for Askfallenroyalty. actually, if you want one condensed post, this comic sums up chara's motives

My interpretation:

chara is an abused kid and suicidal kid*(1) who ran to mount ebott to die.*(2) upon learning that monsters are made of love and humans aren't*(3), chara began to hate humanity. the deltarune prophecy*(4) makes them to be The Angel despite being a human. Feeling undeserving of this title and obligated to fulfill it, Chara wanted to be a good kid more than anything.

But then the buttercup pie incident happened. They've accidentally*(5) poisoned asgore and came up with a plan to ensure the prophecy could be fulfilled and take a hit against humanity. Two birds with one stone -who cares if it's also a personal win too? then obviously the plan goes up in flames and they and asriel are murdered. then asgore wants to kill of all humanity.

your influence*(6) gets Chara onto a path of redemption or a path of destruction, mirroring the deltarune prophecy's two main interpretations.*(7)

in summery: chara is a scared kid trying to fit into a world that demands violence by the past actions of the previous generations. The war massacred monsters and locked them up with a kill-solution -ensuring that further violence would be needed to be free, thus continuing the cycle of violence.

chara is just a kid. they knit, they make macaroni art, they loved their family and had a best friend forever.* (8) but they're also vengeful, they cared so deeply for monsterkind they were ready to die and had no idea they'd be awake as a soul, they were prepared for death. they're complicated, you can't have one side without the other. while i’ve never wanted to murder anyone, i can still relate deeply to chara and see myself in them a lot. the tragedy of them -the fact they never really got a “happy ending” like everyone else just haunts me and it’s why I spend so much time making AFR. I just... love this character so much, i want this kid to be happy. (not that it could ever be easy to get there, happy endings aren’t free.)

And frankly, seeing this hurt kid get demonized just rubs me the wrong way, and it feels completely against the morals Undertale tries to tell with it’s story. I see it as a cautionary tale against violence and dehumanizing others for the sake of hate and violence. how kids can be influenced by the violence -or kindness around them. you don’t need to forgive the ones who hurt you, but killing them is not always the solution -though sometimes necessary as framed in the Undyne the Undying fight.

People get both Undertale’s themes and chara wrong the most, and for the game that’s meant the world to me it bothers me more than it should lol. It’s a Good Story, and I don’t mean to frame my interpretation of the character or themes as 100% canon and I know Mr.Fox’s brain to confirm it kinda deal, but with all the time I’ve spent analyzing and thinking it over I do think it’s not off in the general direction of it lol. And besides the author’s intent isn’t really the end-all-to-be-all. It’s what you get out of the story and the themes that matter and stick with you. No one can take that away from you.

Sources and evidence:

"* If you're cuter, monsters won't hit you as hard." -faded ribbion flavor text * "The ends of the tools have been filed down to make them safer." -gardening tools in New Home (and iirc Toriel's home as well, too lazy to double check rn) * Where are the knives. -no mercy chara (this and paired with the previous imply there are no sharp objects in reach of chara's home because chara can't be trusted with sharp objects out of self harm. This doesn't necessarily mean abuse but paired with them hating humanity so deeply, being suicidal and a child it paints a picture of abuse.

"* I know why (chara) climbed the mountain.* It wasn't for a very happy reason." -asriel post pacifist epilogue dialogue

"* Love, hope, compassion... * This is what people say monster SOULs are made of. * But the absolute nature of "SOUL" is unknown. * After all, humans have proven their SOULs don't need these things to exist." -Library book on monster souls)

* Legend has it, an 'angel' who has seen the surface will descend from above and bring us freedom. - gerson

"* It takes at least a human soul... * And a monster soul. * ...* If you want to go home... * You'll have to take his soul. * You'll have to kill ASGORE." -Alphys. Because boss monster souls are the exception and can persist after death for a short period of time, Chara could of killed any of the family members to escape the underground. this implies escaping wasn't the goal -it was to die (considering they already attempted suicide to fall underground the first time, this is explicitly suicide.) the plaque doesn't mention or speak like monster/human fusion's consumed soul would be aware. chara had no way of knowing they'd be awake. also the whole thing with the pie is a prank. cups of butter. -> buttercups. putting flowers in a pie is a joke to do, we see Chara is similar to Toriel (they mimic her speech in the no mercy monologue, they say “greetings” as she does like how Asriel says “howdy” like Flowey does. Chara makes puns and jokes in the flavor text all the time.

https://imgur.com/a/zP18P -dog food bag at different LV. "When the protagonist first encounters Mad Dummy, they are given the option to beat it up. Choosing to beat it up prompts one of three responses depending on the protagonist's LOVE." (source: undertale wiki)

If the protagonist’s LV is 1, the response becomes "(You tap the dummy with your fist.) (You feel bad.)"

If the protagonist's LV is between 2 and 4, the response becomes "(You hit the dummy lightly.) (You don't feel like you learned anything.)"

If the protagonist’s LV is between 5 and 7, the response becomes "(You sock the dummy.) (Who cares?)"

If the protagonist’s LV is 8 or higher, the response becomes "(You punch the dummy at full force.) (Feels good.)"" This implies Chara (who is the narrator) will feel different about the dog food -which references the classic phrase of "glass half empty/full" showing your out look in life. Then hitting the dummy show's Frisk's out look on violence depending on LV. Note that by the end of it, it's no longer "you feel..." but "feels good" This is Chara.

7. “* Lately, the people have been taking a bleaker outlook...* Callin' that winged circle the 'Angel of Death.' “ -gerson “* Only the fearless may proceed. * Brave ones, foolish ones. * Both walk not the middle road. “ -the first plaque in the first puzzle room with Toriel. The idea is to walk on both the left and right sides -you can’t go half way in the middle. this mirrors the “true” endings are only accomplished if you stick to no mercy or pacifist only.

8. literally their home in New Home is a treasure trove of pre-game chara characterization.

#personal stuff #ut tag #character analysis #chara analysis #ask to tag #i put the warnings up top tho

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ziracona · 3 years

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What do you see happening after Josh is being rescued? Does he meet everyone of his friend eventually or some of them keep their distance? I read one of your answers about them abandoning him and honestly I don't think they didn't care at all about him, but the events were so traumatic and scary that they probably had a hard time taking into consideration that small possibility of him being alive. Plus I guess it's also part of the smooth flow of the game if it makes sense, Mike doesn't go after Jess either after he sees her falling into the mines and accuses Josh of killing her without being 100% sure that she is dead and without seeing Josh around when shit happened to her. But if I were Josh maybe I would be upset knowing they didn't come for me at all. So how would a reunion go?

That’s valid! You can interpret the lack of an interest in rescuing Josh to multiple things—that they are very sure he’s dead, if you want to be as generous as possible to them. That they think he’s probably dead and are afraid of dying too more than willing to save him, that they’re (sans Chris) too mad about the prank he pulled, etc. And I can see why people would go for any number of them. I think to me it has always read like they think he is probably dead, and the whatever he has, 30%, 20% chance? Of still being alive just isn’t enough for them to feel motivated to face very likely death to go hunting for him, especially with flamethrower dude just dead doing the same. Which makes /me/ angry, because Mike went batshit after seeing Jess wounded and dragged through a window and more trying to save her, multiple characters can kill themselves trying to save the others in the finale, etc, and I just think if you /can/ save someone who is your friend—or like, you have a shot anyway—you don’t know it is too late. You should. (& true Jess can still be alive and Mike will assume she is dead, but in his defense, so do basically all blind playthroughs she looks like she falls four stories or something while already almost dead I can’t fault Mike for assuming that was a 100% death there. Boy really tried. Whereas Josh’s vanishing from the shed is much less confirmed. There is no ‘I watched him fall’ here. Just a neither he nor his dead body were still in the shed so /something/ happened). Like I do get it, that’s a terrifying situation and not helping doesn’t = not caring, but I will hold it against characters if they don’t risk themselves to save their friends and I will be unhappy with them. Loyalty is very important to me. But it is a truly terrifying situation.

But I also get why they’d be terrified to go out there. I don’t think it makes them evil to not want to risk it till they have to, it just makes me disappointed in them. I don’t think I said I think they didn’t care about him—typo if I did, because I certainly don’t think that at all! I think Chris was traumatized and felt very sure he was dead, Ashley didn’t care (she explicitly says she thinks he deserves it and tries to stop Chris from saving him the first time), Emily doesn’t care a lot one way or another and is mostly on her own trauma right now and thinking about Matt and the awful shit she saw, that Sam does care but thinks he is probably dead and is in team mom mode and cares more about trying to keep as many friends alive as possible right now than anything else and doesn’t want to lose the others, and Mike is still pissed but also feels very bad and would prefer for Josh to make it but is also more focused on group survival and not losing anyone else since he just lost someone he loves horribly (based largely on how his reaction to the safe room scenario is either to kill Emily and feel awful but do it because he very vocally and visibly doesn’t want the others to be killed and she won’t go peacefully, and he’s terrified of losing them, or to try but not be able to because he loves Emily, and instead give the gun to the others to try to save themselves with in the event she /does/ turn). And although he’s a right coward bastard for leaving Josh if Josh gets grabbed instead of killed, down in the mines, I do think he cared about Josh. He seems truly sorry to some extent when he finds him, and does /try/ to lead him out of the mines. At the point they make the decision to go for the cable car key, I don’t think they don’t care at all, except Ashley. I just think they should care more. Although I tend to give Chris a pass because he just watched a man get beheaded, has strong reason to think Josh is dead, is injured, and spends the entire rest of the game more or less in traumatized mode quiet in the corner.

But that said I can also see why people would interpret the reactions to mean they all believe he is very dead, and mean they’re going after his corpse! I can see lots of basis in-game to interpret in quite a number of ways. And be generous to the fool kids if you want to! I /super/ hold abandoning Josh in the mines wildly against Mike, but Mike is still one of my favorite characters in the whole game. I love how flawed the cast is and that you go in hating most of them and only slowly grow to care because you don’t want them dead-dead, which keeps you there long enough to see some of their good sides. *cheff’s kiss* the great ability of the horror genre. The bar to initially invest is so low, it lets you have such a multi-faceted cast.

Okay anyway, original question! What do I see happening after Josh gets rescued and exorcised.

I think he meets up with all of them again eventually. Interesting to think from Josh’s pov how he’s going to feel. I expect to some degree he does feel abandoned, and fairly, and in RoB it is very clear he is afraid to some extent of Mike and Chris after being dragged off and tied up and left in the shed, and the things they said to him. He also /definitely/ feels massively guilty and self-blaming about all of it. He’s telling himself through Hill that no one will come for him and it’s his own fault by the final chapter. And mostly he’s just afraid of Mike and in ptsd dissociating mode by the time Sam and Mike find him. So, mixed feelings on his part I expect. Lots of fear and pain and hurt at being abandoned and so universally believed capable of murder, hurt, left to die alone in the mines. Pretty damn betrayed, and that on top of the hurt from what happened to his sisters and the inherent paranoia of paranoid schizophrenia. Hurt that they just left him. Hurt they didn’t believe him. Hurt nobody came for him until it was too late. Hurt he got betrayed again. Probably pretty miserable overall. But with that, also feels really bad about going too far and hates and blames himself intensely for everything, and I expect is also kind of not just traumatized but ashamed of what happens to him, and everyone knowing about the possession and the cannibalism. Probably he wants to lock himself in a room in the corner of a big house and never come out. But also is intensely and miserably and hopelessly lonely. Probably feels all of his friendships are likely broken beyond repair.

I don’t think they are though. Chris “I’m not your bro” six seconds later “bro are you for real?” Hartley almost dies trying to save him and wouldn’t care about the possession stuff except to be worried about him. Sam is angry and harboring some resentment, but clearly reacts to Mike reporting he is gone with regret. Mike would probably feel very guilty for leaving him and be hesitant to reconnect and then defensive doing it, but I think he cares. Jess wasn’t even there for this shit so probably she does. Same for Matt maybe? Ashley and Emily are harder to guess for. I think Ashley would be incredibly angry and resentful—I mean she wants him dead in-game, but might eventually join the others if the others got over stuff? Bc she’s also kinda a joiner? Really it’s hard to say she is a very...hair-trigger character. Volatile and intensely and massively changeable. Probably the least predictable of all. That kind of person scares me deeply in real life because I have been very backstabbed by them before. >.> But anyway hard to say. Also a lot of this depends on what ending, even assuming they all live. But I usually assume that like, Mike almost shot Em, didn’t, Matt tried to save her, Sam saw the workshop, etc ending. Emily I really don’t know. She’s a very self-reliant and hard person. She didn’t have anything very specifically for or against Josh with her experience, but wasn’t that close to him before, so I think she just kinda falls wherever she falls.

I think mostly though that they’d reconnect. Definitely Chris would jump to it, and I think Sam would too—she’s a well educated, empathetic and understanding person. She’d know he needs her. And Chris is his childhood best friend and cares the whole game. I think Mike would try to go too because of guilt, and because he’s a decent guy. Probably so would after not much time those least effected by what Josh did. I think Josh would be alone while being exorcised and probably reocvering in a hospital some after, and Chris would be the first, or Chris and Sam possibly. I think he’d be afraid to see them, and it would be complicated and messy and painful for them all, but it would be okay and sort itself out and they’d find old ground quickly. And having them there would be /incredibly/ vital to helping him recover. I think eventually he’d get back on his feet, and a lot of his old friends would be around and stay in his life. I think things would get better. I’d say the OG ExorJosh comic writer I think did a good job of guessing about what a lot of it would be like. Hard, and slow, and messy. But a lot of them care for him, and I think that would matter enough to help things get okay between them again.

#ask #anonymous #until dawn #long post #Josh Washington #spoilers #exorjosh #exor-Josh

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chibimyumi · 5 years

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How do you think Sebastian managed to manipulate his cinematic record in the Campania arc? Is this just supposed to be laid off as a simple plot hole due to trying to hide O!Ciel had a brother or do you think that there's more behind that flashback? I hope I don't end up wasting your time with this question. Have a nice day!

Dear @hyliaroseisnotonfire,

I don’t think anybody has the power to manipulate cinematic records except exceptional reapers (like Undertaker) in the Kuroverse, and I definitely don’t think Sebastian can. When Undertaker revealed he edited records, both Ronald and Grell’s reaction was ( Ô A ó) (⁽⁽ ⁰ ⁾⁾ Д ⁽⁽ ⁰ ⁾⁾). But even Undertaker could not change what had already happened; he could not turn a cake eaten in the past into a sandwich, so to say.

I strongly believe RCiel was not featured in Sebastian’s cinematic record back in chapters 61-63 because of Yana’s storytelling choice. This choice can be broken up into two parts: 1. Behind the scenes and 2. In story.

Because manga is a visual medium, Yana could deliberately choose how much information she is willing to give the audience at the given time, without having to explicitly deny or confirm certain information that is not due YET. This is the storytelling device that is medium-based, but in-story, the reason RCiel was not shown seems to be a simple lack of need or interest from the characters themselves. Hence, it is not a plot hole.

Storytelling Device

Let us first look at the visual storytelling device. Back in the chapters 61-63, RCiel’s existence was not confirmed yet. In the manga, we see the moment from Sebastian being scythed by the Undertaker immediately transitioning to the point where Sebastian and OCiel had already decided to enter the contract.

In short, in the black panel that marked the start of Sebas’ cinematic record, all of chapter 137 and part of 138 had already happened. In the corner (marked in blue), we see a glimpse of the altar where RCiel was later revealed to have been sacrificed. This is evidence that Yana did have RCiel’s presence in the ritual planned out already by that time in the manga.

Right after OCiel seals the contract with Sebastian, Yana inserted a time-skip that was the content of chapters 138-140, and we see the duo outside of the building that Sebas had set on fire. In short, RCiel’s was not manipulated ‘out of Sebas’ memory’; he was edited out of the visuals by Yana for the purpose of the Big Revelation, albeit somewhat stale and dragged out one.

This is all consistent with Undertaker’s motivation to scythe Sebastian in the first place. What Undertaker was interested in was not the procedure of the ritual. Some fans have theorised Undertaker might have been eyewitness of the whole procedure, and if this is true, then it would explain why Undertaker is uninterested in seeing what he had seen himself, again. What did interest Undertaker was Sebastian’s motivation to stoop to servitude. As a butler in particular; an occupation that symbolised elegance of prestige.

By calling Sebastian ‘vicious beast’ or ‘vermin’ (depending on the translation), we see how Undertaker too has been affected by the Reapers’ educational regime of demonising (pun not intended, just for lack of a better word) demons as mere vermin. “Why would a wild beast, a swine or a cockroach, choose to pose as the very symbol of elegance?” Why indeed.

Focus and lack of interest

Another aspect is the fact that the cinematic record is solely Sebastian’s personal point of view. When we got the first glimpses of Sebastian’s personal perspective when he just manifested on earth, we see sheer indifference for anything around him, except for his summoner.

To be summed up, his reaction was (>_> Meh) (

In chapter 136, we see how when Sebas emerged, his black essence was effectively swallowing the entire room.

And in chapter 62, we see here how from the darkness of Sebas’ dark essence, everything was enveloped, except the spot where OCiel is.The spot was not literally ‘spared from the essence’, but it stood for how Sebastian’s eyes sparked up with intrigue.

In chapter 137, Sebas was depicted actively searching for his summoner, picking up the cult members and dropping them again. This scene did not portray Sebastian’s cruelty, it depicted his indifference.

The way Sebas looked for his summoner is akin to the way us humans look for that ONE damn sock in our drawers. As we rummage through the drawer and shove the wrong sock aside, we don’t really care whether the sock will be damaged. Sebastian never harshly smeared anybody into the floor or walls, he just dropped them without bothering to hold back on his strength. Again, sock-drawer analogy.

This too is consistent with how Sebas accidentally hurt OCiel when he attempted to bathe him at first; Sebastian consistently did not know how much strength could be applied to fragile human bodies without damaging them. And we can assume that Sebastian already tried to minimise his strength-output for bathing OCiel, because he had to care.

In the panel at the bottom, we see how Sebastian started to care for the first time when he finally found his summoner. “Aahhhh, my preciousss”. This is yet another confirmation of how Sebas had his eyes set on but one thing.

Real Ciel

RCiel was present too of course, and he is an essential part of the summoning ritual. But, he was basically the left-over bones of Sebas’ summoning meal. To Sebas, the corpse held no more value than an emotion-charged tool to manipulate OCiel into entering the contact with him.

Yet again, we see how little regard Sebas has for humans who cannot give him what he wants. In this room, the only person who could give him something, was OCiel, somebody who may be a future meal. Anyone else? Meh.

After RCiel’s corpse had fulfilled its purpose, Sebas went back to total disinterest, and did not bat a single eye to it again until OCiel tried to retrieve the ring from his abdomen.

The only reason Sebas helped OCiel out by pointing out the position of the ring, as well as extracting the object, was because he simply lost patience and probably got rather tired of watching this 'human melodrama’. “Better get it over with quickly”. We see confirmation of this attitude by Sebas jabbing at OCiel for being a crybaby.

In short, the explicit absence of RCiel in Sebas’ cinematic record in the Campania arc was not a plot hole; it was the product of visual storytelling device, which linked perfectly with the characters’ attitude and interest, or rather, the lack hereof.

I hope this helps ^^

#Kuroshitsuji #Black Butler #Sebastian Michaelis #Undertaker #OCiel #RCiel #Analysis #Manga #Campania Arc #Blue sect arc #Flashback #Storytelling device

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ill-be-istj-if-no-one-else-is · 5 years

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1. I am an INTP 5w6 female and I want to know how to meet new people, it didn't bother me before but I had a boyfriend.of 1.5years and I now miss having someone in my life, don't remember exactly what I wrote but I thought I had made a good choice and was really hopeful about that relationship and I tried hard to make it work but I couldn't deal with his bs anymore, I did for a while cause I thought he was worth it, I've been trying to build deeper relationships but didn't care before so imbehnd

2. My ex wasn't extremely manipulative but he lied and hid things from me and got angry when I complained when his stories made no sense, I left We knew each other for so long and I couldn't deal with him not apologizing for his bs and blaming me for what he was doing, I just couldn't justify the relationship even if I still loved him This lead me to believe my strategy was wrong since I thought I knew him and that he was more mature than that, no matter how high the filter this could happen..

3. It's just so disappointing, you know? That people can be such assholes after managing to present themselves as the opposite of that for so long I've never really had close friendships except for my ex, and a few friends (I guess?) I didn't care much for this before since I'm alright on my own, but I found that I really liked having someone, so I'm trying to meet new people now that I'm more or less healing, but idk how to do it, acquaintances used to fall in my lap before but not anymore

4. I'm 23 yo, about to get my degree. I do have a crush on a classmate but when I try to picture us going out it feels awkward and weird since I don't know him very well, I need to know people well before considering dating... I'm just very lost and I feel kind of behind from everyone else since I'm super inexperienced (only that one bf, and it was long distance...) and idk how to correct that at this point. I've been dressing better so people treat me better (haven't noticed, makes sense tho)

5. People do seem to like me well enough but I guess everyone already has their group of friends and is too busy to invite me places often enough that I become part of the core group, but I'm getting there, a bit (I think) I've been going everywhere I've been invited with my classmates lately but they don't really bring anyone new, I've managed to be a step up from acquaintance with a girl friend, which is nice, with older friends the same thing happens, even if we come across their friends...

6. I've always had a hard time fitting in very well, romantically I'd love to have someone at a similar experience level because I feel like I missed out on being a crucial relationship for the other person, but my ex had several gfs before and I didn't care too much then but now I do because afterwards certain things made me feel bad, but I guess I could manage anyway.I also get paranoid when I read what other bs some people manage to do like marrying someone but loving their bestfriend instead

7. I apologize for making it so long but I thought it'd be necessary to give a bit of info on myself and my thoughts, my age, what I've been trying etc I just wanna meet good people at this point in my life and want some tips on how to do that without taking extremely long only for them to be assholes anyways... I think I've managed to make some more acquaintances but I've only clicked with two girls I talk to outside of the classroom when we're not hanging out, gonna focus on them rn-----------------------

(very long response ahead)

I know this is not what you asked nor is it necessarily going to be helpful or relevant but: I would strongly rethink your type. Ti-doms and 5s are both vanishingly unlikely to drop seven asks worth of highly personal and emotionally open information in the inboxes of total strangers.

With regards to the actual question, this is really not an MBTI question (more on this at the end) and not entirely something I’d consider myself an expert on. I very much hope I am not the only person you can go to on this because I personally wouldn’t want me to be my only source of advice on this. With those caveats, see below.

I think Tumblr (and to be fair some forms of media) portray friendships and relationships as an attraction at first sight/immediate connection.

This is fucking stupid.

Because I tie everything back to my personal soapbox causes: this is why I have such disdain for the anti-small talk crowd, or people who think they’re special because they crave a deep, below-the-surface human connection. Nearly everyone wants deep connection. It’s normal and healthy. It’s also an ongoing process that nearly always involves some period of time during which you and the other potential friend are awkward acquaintances who don’t entirely understand each other and have to talk about surface-level things. You can’t speedrun intimacy.

This is particularly true in adulthood. Children do make friends more quickly, but also children are weird and fickle and a friendship can be based on little more than sharing crayons (not to knock that, plenty of great friendships started that way) while adults have a much better sense of who they are and also typically a much more narrow definition of who they want as a friend and all kinds of emotional baggage to boot.

Essentially, if you want a friendship that matches the depth of a relationship of 1.5 years it’s probably going to take close to 1.5 years to get there, and from what you said you’d known each other even longer before the romantic relationship, so add that time too. Which might not be what you want to hear, but it’s important to manage the expectation. Basically all relationships (and by this I mean romantic or platonic) start out with little connection, and you become friends through building that connection, and you can’t really rush it.

I believe in “clicking” in the sense of there being an immediate mutual interest in getting to know each other better, but speaking practically, regardless of the initial chemistry you are still basically intrigued strangers at that point. All clicking does is provide additional motivation for that process of getting to know each other. And speaking from experience, deep friendships in the long term don’t always have an initial “click”. I’ve had relationships that were initially quite intense fade away, and others slowly grow from acquaintanceship into lasting intimate friendship even if we didn’t expect it on first meeting. The myth of clicking is confirmation bias - unless there was a serious fallout, you’ll probably forget the people who you thought you clicked with if it didn’t just work out, and conversely it’s not hard to look back through the lenses of memory and nostalgia and find a single moment when a friendship or love crystalized, even though the reality is that it was merely the tipping point after considerable energy had already been invested on both sides.

In terms of practical advice, finishing up a degree is a uniquely awkward time, especially if all your classmates are in the same boat, because there’s often a mentality of “we’re all going to leave soon, let’s stick with the friendships we have.” Others in your class may not have that motivation to make a close connection, and it sucks but it’s temporary. The good news is that the larger world doesn’t feel that way. It is a bit more difficult to make friends as an adult, just because you’re not spending time with people naturally the same way as you do in school, but meetups and clubs and social organizations all exist for this reason and are explicitly there for people who want to make friends. And again, it’s going to be a slow process. I respect that it’s frustrating having to start from what feels like square one, but it’s unavoidable.

As for dating, you don’t need to do apps if you don’t want to! But you’re right. It’s going to be comparatively inefficient. Particularly if you prefer to date people you already know socially, you’ll have to put in a lot of effort going to social things and building those acquaintanceships over time and you might need to ask someone out face to face. Inexperience is fine. Everyone has to start somewhere. The tradeoff is more that you can’t screen people as well if you’re on apps, and they can be kind of impersonal but you do get to interact with many people quickly on your own terms without having to go outside and with the luxury of being able to think up witty comebacks instead of having to chat in real time.

(I do want to counter the idea that people who use apps are any less deep or anything like that. Some people are comfortable with casual hookups and some aren’t, but many people use apps to set up a date first and see if they have enough of an interest to keep things going. As with all of the above, everything has to start somewhere and if you think of the app as a way to facilitate meeting people, rather than “I must make a romantic connection with this person tonight”, and steer towards dating vs. hookup apps/make it clear you’re looking for long-term relationships, you might have more luck. The point of the first date for most people isn’t to find a partner, though sometimes that happens; it’s to find someone you enjoy enough to go on a second date with and slowly get to know).

One final thought: all this advice applies universally but I actually think considering it in the context of MBTI is more harmful than helpful, or at best misleading. For example, you say that being a 5 you take too long to check if people are safe, which whether or not you actually are a 5 also has absolutely nothing to do with being a 5, and even if you are a 5 and this is a 5 thing, you’re aware of this behavior! You can stop doing that then! MBTI is not destiny!

Regardless of type, no one automatically knows what to say in every situation, no one can read minds, and no one has discovered the secret to always being liked and never being rejected. Type can convey talent or inclination but skill requires time. Extroverts are often better with people because they have to be - they aren’t as okay with just being alone, especially when younger, so they go out and deal with people and through that process learn to make friends. But they weren’t born with it. Sites that favor introverts and/or intuitives are terrible for a lot of reasons but I find they perpetuate the ideas I disagreed with above, that friendships for introverts and intuitives must always be with people who Click and Already Get It. This is wrong and it’s limiting. Obviously don’t pursue a friendship or relationship if you don’t like the person, but don’t write someone off just because you didn’t feel a magical spark right away. That’s not being deep and sensitive - that’s being closed off to new experiences. Anything worth doing involves real-world effort and some amount of risk, and usually it involves patience and time and awkwardness and uncertainty as well.

#mbti #enneagram #long post #aegeanfractal #answered asks

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fullmetalirin · 6 years

Text

Fullmetal Alchemist OG vs. Brotherhood: Greed’s Demise (OG 34, BH 14)

We're finally here: the divergence point.

FMA Brotherhood Episode 14: "Those Who Lurk Underground"

Bradley and Armstrong lead a team of state military soldiers to raid Greed's hideout, although Bradley uses it as cover to hunt for Greed. Bradley goes into the sewage passageway beneath the hideout and duels with Greed. Surprised by the abilities of Bradley the Führer, Greed is severely weakened by Bradley who reveals his true identity as Wrath. Roa and Dolcetto attempt to save Greed, but are killed by the Führer. Martel, who is still inside Alphonse, attempts to choke Bradley to death with Alphonse's armor, but she is stabbed by Bradley. Her blood splashes on Alphonse's blood seal and unlocks his forgotten memories. Later, Alphonse reveals to Edward that he managed to recover his former memories, prior to their failed attempt at human transmutation to revive their mother. Greed is taken as a captive to Father, who was disappointed in him after he deserted the rest of the homunculi. When Greed refuses to rejoin the homunculi, he is melted alive to a liquid philosopher's stone, which is then consumed by Father.

We open with MUSTANG because of course we do. He is bothered by peoples' perceptions of him, except he smirks after thinking about them, so I guess not? He reports to the Fuhrer's secretary, who is not important in this continuity, and learns that he's traveled to the south.

The chimeras are taking Al through the sewers. Roa sniffs to find the way.

We cut to Bradley leading a raid on the Devil's Nest.

Greed decides to run away. LOL.

They prepare to chase after him, but Izumi starts vomiting, played absurdly comedically. Life-threatening illnesses during serious battles, so hilarious!!!

Cut to Al struggling with Martel. Where did the others go?

Al looks stunned when Martel lifts his helmet off, but he's been able to move without it before.

Roa and Dolcetto apparently left to find an escape route?

And suddenly Bradley shows up. How did he get here so fast?

Bradley tells the air that he's 60 and his body has started to slow down with age, so he wants to get this done quickly so he can go home. I guess he just likes grandstanding, or he likes bragging about being a special homunculi?

Bradley attacks and it's villain sue time. Despite clearly being several steps away in the previous shot, he's able to instantly slice off Greed's hand as soon as he starts hardening. From there, he just keeps cutting Greed's hands off with his swords that are, I dunno, adamantium given they can cut clean through bone repeatedly without damage. Since Greed can't harden and regenerate, and apparently can't harden unless he's fully healed, Greed is totally helpless during this time.

We cut to Armstrong fighting Dolcetto. He transmutes Dolcetto's hammer into a statue of himself, because Armstrong. Even the statue has bishie sparkles. LOL. Dolcetto throws it away and switches to fisticuffs.

Dolcetto hulks out and… grows horns. I don't think splicing alchemy should work that way. It's pretty clearly only merging existing parts together, not letting you transform at will.

We cut to soldiers gunning down chimeras.

Dolcetto manages to hit Armstrong hard enough to make him bleed.

Armstrong tells him to surrender, but the military show up and shoot at him. His beefy fists can block bullets, apparently. Roa slices through some but not all of the soldiers, who proceed to… somehow completely miss him despite shooting tons of bullets in his direction.

Greed knocks Bradley's eyepatch off and he namedrops the Ultimate Eye. He says it is the reason he was able to dodge bullets on the battlefield and survive long enough to be promoted to his current position. So… Father didn't just install him? What's the point of making a country if you have to appoint your puppet kings through legitimate channels?

Bradley asks how many more times Greed has to be killed before he dies, foreshadowing that their regeneration can be exhausted and also that all future homunculi battles are just going to be people punching them for ages until the author decides they run out of HP.

Martel sees Bradley continuing to just wail on Greed and freaks out. Al tries to keep her hidden.

Roa and Dolcetto show up. Roa does have some bullet wounds, so I guess some did land. He… cuts Al's chains… with his sword that I guess is also adamantium… and tells him to get Martel to safety.

Martel demands Al let her out so she can fight.

Bradley cuts Roa cleanly in half with his magic swords.

Greed taunts Bradley while he's still regenerating because, I dunno, he figures he's going to die anyway? His hand takes ridiculously long to regenerate compared to his brain, which you'd think would be more complex.

Greed gives a speech about how while he's not attached to the chimeras, they're his possessions and he doesn't like Bradley wrecking his stuff.

Greed starts hardening and Bradley charges forward again with super speed. So in addition to being able to dodge bullets and cut through anything, he has super speed so he is not even limited by the range of his magic swords. Greed actually does successfully block the attack, but stops hardening because…?

Bradley stabs Greed, which incapacitates him even though Lust is never knocked unconscious despite explicitly being on her last life later because what is consistency.

Al tries to run away but Martel tries to strangle Bradley, because the irrational woman is too overcome with grief to not immediately jump for the suicide attack.

Bradley is totally unaffected by the strangling even though he is not supposed to have homunculi endurance and stabs Martel to death. It looks really weird; he just sticks the sword in and then blood gushes out all at once.

Some of the blood splatters on Al's bloodseal and this activates his memories of the Gate because…? He did not get knowledge of human transmutation either, so methinks the theory that you get more for paying more is bunk. We then get a shot of him in the created body, implying that thing didn't have a soul to begin with. More on that later.

Then we cut to Al waking up outside. Ed is bandaged and injured. Al says Ed's covered in blood, and then we look down and see Al is too. I think that's an effective sequence.

Al has a breakdown over being unable to save Martel. Ed tries to tell him it'll be okay but it doesn't work.

Bradley shows up to be evil and intimidating. He wants to know if Ed made any deals with Greed, because…? I guess maybe he's worried Greed spilled the beans about Father's plan. But he has no way of knowing if Ed is lying here (unless that's also covered by the Ultimate Sue Eye), so this doesn't seem to accomplish anything but telling Ed he has something to hide. Bradley also asks them if they did human transmutation, which the homunculi must already know if he's already marked for sacrifice, so again this is just giving Ed information.

Bradley offers Izumi a position as State Alchemist. She gets out of it by saying she's just a housewife, but Bradley pointedly says he will return to see if she's changed her mind. Why not just do whatever coercion he has planned now? He has a regiment of soldiers outside already.

Ed mentions he told Hughes about the homunculi. Armstrong gets weird and tells him to be cautious, but nothing more.

Now Al explains his memories have come back. He echoes their earlier cartoon pose about it being awful. He says he didn't learn anything about human transmutation, so it's useless and accomplished nothing. YEP IT SURE DID. The only difference is that now he can do circleless alchemy, because combat upgrades are what really matter.

The brothers then rationally examine how strange it is that the military massacred everyone instead of capturing them for interrogation, and why the Fuhrer came down for such a small operation. Ed says he guesses they'll stick with the military for a while, implying he plans to leave eventually, because military dictatorships will totally let you walk away whenever you want.

Then we get the scene with Father. It is pretty useful to explicitly run over all the homunculi so we can confirm what we know so far. Greed asks why Sloth is missing and we get a shot of him digging the tunnels, foreshadowing that. Why doesn't he ask about Pride, though?

Bradley is apparently new, so was there just not a Wrath before? Greed notes that an aging homunculi is special.

Envy gets mad at being called ugly. The envy demon is vain, geddit, wow such deep symbolism here.

Envy looks more muscular here, more brawler and less prettyboy.

Greed nearly goads Envy into revealing his "true form", but Father stops them. So that's tantalizing us for a future reveal.

Father sits in a chair connected to a bunch of pipes.

Father asks why Greed betrayed him and left, and Greed just says he's only behaving how he was created: greedy. Why is Father purposefully creating things based around fatal flaws?

Greed refuses to return to Father's employ. Father activates some clockwork contraption that lowers Greed into a crucible. As he's melted down, his Philosopher's Stone is extracted into… wine? that Father drinks, using some complicated distillation apparatus. He does realize you get holdup in every step of a process, right? He is losing Philosopher's Stone material every time he does this.

Greed's chains melt as he enters the crucible, but not Bradley's swords. So I guess they really are adamantium.

This is all just way too over-the-top for me. Why does Father need this elaborate getup? It's… intimidating? I guess? But there doesn't seem to actually be much point to it. It's a lot of pretty cruft with no real purpose.

Then we cut to Bradley talking with his family. His wife says he should retire, then Selim nerds out about how Ed is so cool and he wants to learn alchemy so he can help out his dad. I don't… I don't even. Why is Pride doing this. Is he just screwing with Bradley? Does he get off on pretending to be an innocent kid? Is the wife not in on any of this? How did the wife not know she gave birth to a freaky shadow monster? I'm not entirely clear on the mechanics of Pride so I guess I'll have to watch his intro episode later, but this looks really bizarre to me.

Fullmetal Alchemist Episode 34: "Theory of Avarice"

Archer has Edward as well as Izumi and Sig Curtis in custody. Archer reinstates Tucker as a state alchemist under his command and orders his men to take no prisoners hunting down Greed and his associates. As Greed tries to escape with his cohorts, Strongarm burst through the wall and battles with Law until Law collapses the wall, ensuring the group's escape. While Greed and co. recover in a small shack, Lust and Gluttony appear. Dolcetto and Law unwaveringly step up and sacrifice themselves allowing Greed, Al, and Marta (who is still inside of Al's armor) to escape. In a forest, Greed instructs Al to wait for him until sunrise, and for Marta to watch after him while he goes to take care of business. Marta realizes he is headed for Dante's house and tries to go after him, but Al refuses to allow her to do so. When Greed arrives at Dante's, he is greeted by Lyra, who knows his purpose for returning to Dante's. She guides him to a parlor, where he discovers Dante's body split down the middle, seemingly by a sword, and a complex alchemy circle on the ceiling and floor. Before he has time to react, Lyra uses alchemy to forcibly eject the Philosopher's Stone fragments that Greed has consumed in his life. She exits, leaving him in pain, as Ed enters. Shocked at Dante's corpse, he blames her death on Greed. While they fight, Ed discovers the secret to his human shield through logic, and uses alchemy to undo it. He manages to stab Greed in through the chest, which surprisingly causes Greed to collapse in pain. Greed explains to Edward that the only way to kill a homunculus without its regeneration is to physically murder one near the human remains that it was created with, and he also reveals that he let Al go. Greed departs this information with Ed in hopes of ensuring the deaths of the rest of the homunculi, and then he dies, much to the shock of Ed who has never killed before. At sunrise, Marta gets up and leaves Al, knowing that Greed isn't returning. The brothers reunite and, together with Winry, Izumi, and Sig, bury Greed and Dante. They bid Izumi and Sig goodbye, saying they will next find the Ishbalans.

Winry sulks in the meat shop, hoping for a call from Ed.

Archer orders the military to gun down anyone who opposes them. We helpfully get an internal monologue where he thinks he can make as many of them as he wants if he has Tucker, and Greed can't lay a hand on him as long as he has the skull. (So I guess Kimblee did tell him about the weakness?) Eh, kinda tacky. I don't like actually getting into characters' heads for exposition, it's too blunt. It's much more effective when the audience can piece these things together from context clues.

Bido is seen bleeding out in the sewer.

The military guns down chimeras. They catch up to Greed, and Roa stays behind to buy them time. Armstrong cuts them off, and demands they return Al.

Lust says Sloth was responsible for letting Greed escape?

Armstrong's battle with Dolcetto is similar, but the statue doesn't get bishie sparkles. How sad. Armstrong also does not bleed from getting smashed into the wall.

After the battle, Dolcetto caves in the tunnel and escapes with Greed.

We cut to the bar. Soldiers have killed all the patrons. Outside, Ed has slipped off and put dummies in the cloaks.

Greed hides out in a cabin in the woods. We get thoughts AGAIN, this time just him wondering what he can do now.

Lust and Gluttony show up to menace him. They say his only options are to be imprisoned again or be destroyed, because Dante is pissed at him for rebelling.

Roa still slices off Al's chains.

Greed is surprised to see Roa and Dolcetto willing to sacrifice themselves to help him escape. This is where Roa mentions he was fused with a dog and gives his line about loyalty. We don't see them die, just a smash to black.

Al escapes with Greed. Greed tells Martel to stay put until sunrise, and leave if he doesn't come back. This is where we get the scene of Martel trying to escape.

Dante confirms her house is where Greed was born. So she's been sitting here for a while.

Looks like Dante had to split.

I love Dante's theme music. It's so subtly creepy.

Greed looks sick even before Dante activates the circle. Mere proximity to the remains weakens them.

The sealing circle is on the ceiling, which blindsides Greed. Always look up when you’re entering a dungeon! Greed realizes Dante's jumped to Lyra.

The red stones disintegrate when Greed vomits them up. Seems wasteful.

Ah, the circle sigil is Izumi's tattoo. So I guess we can presume she got it from Dante.

Greed smashes Ed's automail pretty bad, and the hand breaks when Ed tries to punch the shield. Ed notes that Winry is awesome because he can still move his arm after that.

Ed figures out how to break Greed's shield, explicitly noting that he can't create something from nothing, so the shield must come from somewhere.

Ed has a breakdown when he realizes he's killed someone.

Greed's body melts into red liquid. We cut to Archer, who notices that the skull has spontaneously disintegrated. Oh, so I guess that actually does answer a question I had: the remains seem linked to the homunculi's life, so they can't just destroy them.

Ed makes two graves. One for Greed?

Ed warns Izumi the military might be after her, and tells her to go into hiding.

Conclusion

On a large scale, these episodes are similar in events, but they're incredibly different in details. Most notably, I much prefer how OG handles the military side of things. It's far more subtle, and raises more questions of what Ed signed on for instead of just pitting him against them. Brotherhood is too sudden: the military is good, now suddenly it's evil, and the only difference is that this might cause problems for Ed. OG's coverage focuses on personal culpability, the ease with which the military can corrupt, the lengths to which the characters will go. Ed has to come to terms with killing people; Mustang must come to terms with the possibility he is starting another massacre. These are hard questions that challenge the characters. In Brotherhood, it's just "You thought Greed was the boss fight, but psyche, this other dude is even scarier!" That's impressive if what's engaging you is who can beat whom, but that's not what engages me about stories.

We even end with a preview of our respective villains, though OG is, as usual, subtler. We know there is some connection between Dante (or at least her house) and the homunculi, and Greed notices that something very weird is going on with Lyra. The pieces are starting to come together.

Even the fights are better in OG, in my opinion. Brotherhood is much too manic and features too many superhuman acrobatics. An even fight is also just so much more interesting than Bradly effortlessly pwning someone.

And I think this is important: Ed gets to defeat the villain. This is something that exasperated me as Brotherhood continued: Ed becomes more and more of a spectator in his own narrative, despite being the only hero I was really interested in. OG keeps Ed at the center of the narrative and allows him crucial victories, and I think that makes OG a tighter narrative overall.

On representation: In Brotherhood, Martel dies stupidly and pointlessly. In OG, she is the sole survivor of an otherwise all-male group, and gets to live for another arc.

Also… now that we've gotten to our first homunculi death, I think it'd be a good time to bring up the theme of irony. Everyone says the homunculi meet ironic fates in Brotherhood. They do not. They just don't, okay? Irony means a situation is different than you expected. "They are the thing they're named after" is the exact opposite of that. You'd have to build up something where they claim to be above their own sin, so it's ironic that they end up succumbing to them or something… but that's not really what happens. They're just either killed by their sin, or killed by someone who embodies their sin better. When you don't actually engage with the sin theme at all and just use them as motifs because you think they're cool, that is not deep meaningful symbolism. "It's just cool" is a fine reason to do or enjoy something, but that doesn't automatically make it have substance. Step back a little, guys, please.

OG is not much better, granted, but I do think it's a lot more meaningful when the homunculi actually do come from alchemists' sins. I always got the impression Dante used the sin theme as a commentary on how or why they were made. Lust was the guy's girlfriend; Sloth was put together poorly (or perhaps it's a jab at Hoenheim, for not coming back to save her?); Pride was an experiment to show how awesome she was; and we know she made Greed, so perhaps that was also a purposeful experiment, perhaps just to make a full set? It's not as blatant because it doesn't matter as much because OG isn't as interested in cool things for the sake of it, but there are ways you can engage with it.

With that in mind, though, I think you can make a case that the homunculi's fates in OG actually are ironic, or at least poetic in a more meaningful way. Let's begin with:

Greed is wasted.

We don't know why Dante made Greed, but we know she did make him. She kept him imprisoned because she didn't want to kill him the first time, but now she cuts her losses and disposes of him. Now, an important component of greed to me is hoarding, the inability to give things up. Greed could have still been useful; certainly, Dante invested all those red stones in him that are now gone. He seemed to be hoping that that would work in his favor and get Dante to spare him, but Dante didn't care. He is killed by a lack of greed. Even narratively, he is wasted: his only purpose is to die to teach Ed, and us, how homunculi can be killed.

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