#expectation subversion

[anthurak]

As someone who was very curious as to how Mammon was going to be presented in Helluva Boss, you can probably imagine I was looking through the new episode very closely.

And while I may have been off the mark with my theory that Mammon would follow the trend of Asmodeus and Beelzebub and NOT actually be antagonistic, I nonetheless think it is VERY interesting how Vivzie and the team handled and presented him.

Specifically, in just how PETTY Mammon is shown to be in this episode.

Like really think about what you might generally expect from a character like Mammon just from a basic background description: He is one of the seven rulers of Hell, lord of the seven rings and embodiment of GREED. Likely a fallen angel who helped to create hell as it exists today, is matched in power only by his five fellow Sins, and is functionally only truly outranked by Lucifer himself.

And yet, Mammon’s characterization in this episode presents him as this petty, selfish, manipulative asshole interested in little more than money and attention. He acts more like a shitty, full-of-himself asshole celebrity than a demon lord. Just look at how he manipulates Fizzerolli, not through lording power and authority over him but through emotional coercion like an abusive parent, ex-, or boss, which is precisely WHAT he is presented as. fi

What makes this even more interesting is that despite Mammon being characterized as Fizz’s petty, manipulative boss, we nonetheless see him display all the POWER and experience we’d expect from one of the seven rulers of Hell. Asmodeus mentions earlier in the episode that he’s known Mammon ‘since the START of Hell’, confirming they were both involved in its creation, and when the two square off at the end, it’s clear that Mammon is very much Ozzie’s EQUAL in power, and that everyone else present is pretty much an insect in comparison.

This is what I think makes the inclusion of that one creepy, obsessive fan of Fizzerolli’s in this episode so significant; he serves as a point of comparison to Mammon.

For all the power and authority that he might wield, Mammon is characterized as being no different/better than a creepy, manipulative, entitled and obsessive stalker.

I think this might be the true common ‘thru-line’ connecting all of the seven sins through Helluva Boss and possibly even Hazbin Hotel: That despite essentially being ‘God-Emperors’ of Hell and outclassed in power likely only by the most powerful angels of Heaven itself, the seven sins are characterized in a very grounded, down-to-earth and for lack of a better term, ‘human’ way.

All the times we’ve seen them, Ozzie, Bee and Mam haven’t presented themselves as these all-powerful beings lording themselves over their subjects like we might expect or even what we’ve seen of the Goetic nobility. They don’t present themselves as ‘royalty’ but rather more like celebrity performers, which is certainly in keeping with Vivzie’s comments about how Hell is meant to represent a circus.

It really gives this fascinating dichotomy to the Sins as characters, where they’re presented as these big wacky celebrities with big, over-the-top personas which in turn hide very grounded, down-to-earth people underneath. While at the same time still being these monstrously powerful and ancient beings whose dominion over Hell is entirely uncontested.

It also gives them a nice contrast with the Goetic Nobility and the Sinner Overlords. Like those two groups actually do act and present themselves like demonic ‘royalty’ who lord themselves over those considered ‘beneath’ them, while in reality they’re at best the ‘middle-managers’, and instead it’s these wacky characters who are the TRUE masters of Hell.

It may even continue into what we might see in Hazbin Hotel, what with Charlie being this bubbly, happy-go-lucky Disney-esque princess who also may very well have power outclassing literally EVERYONE else in the show apart from her parents.

Overall, I loved this episode and I think we may now have a good idea what we might expect from the other Sins, and possibly even Lucifer himself in Hazbin Hotel.

#helluva boss #helluva boss analysis #mammon #helluva mammon #asmodeus #helluva asmodeus #beelzebub #helluva beelzebub #fizzarolli #helluva fizzarolli #expectation subversion

[whydidisavethistomyphone]

#bunnies #rabbit #motivational memes #expectation subversion #they had us in the first half not gonna lie

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Average Drama Enjoyer observes some peak drama.

#dungeon meshi #toshiro nakamoto #laios touden #kabru #izutsumi #Before anyone mistakes this as mischaracterization: The joke here is that it's ambiguous what the hell he means. #Kabru does love getting into fights a bit more than average but he's mostly here for the drama. #I screenshot the scene of him going 'The dark arts!' with a little smile everytime I re-read dungeon meshi. He's so catty. I love him. #And shout out to Izutsumi for adding fire to the drama. Girl said 'I am the listener. I heard that shit.' and refused to apologize. #Joke two: the deep cut - Welcome to more propaganda for whatever the hell is going on between Laios & Shuro & Kabru. #Laios trusting Shuro with some *heavy* information because he admires him so much! And wants to be his friend so badly! #Kabru also has another great character moment when he immediatly clocks Laios as not being as malicious as expected. #We love a character who can put the clues together! It is such a good subversion of what role we think Kabru is to play in this story! #Now he's eager to befriend Laios - who is barely interested and currently trying to befriend Shuro - who is barely interested and...well. #The painful triangle of people trying to get to know the other person better and being rejected...Friendship triangle. #We have all had a friendship triangle situation before. Right? You guys have also struggled to read people. Right? #Laios is universally relatable. Right?

[rassebers]

What my master really is

#a good guy #mp100 #the fucking bridge scene will always ALWAAYS live in my mind #it's such a beautiful moment and subversion of audience expectations #when the camera transitions from little mob at their first meeting to current reigen DIEEEE #they really ... have a lot of history together ... snff.. DONT LOOK AT ME #shigeo kageyama #reigen arataka #mob psycho 100 #my rart

[nyxofdemons]

okay so the main criticism i've been seeing against episode 8 is that beelzebub (among other things) is "too nice" to be the sin of gluttony, because she's an attentive hostess, because she expresses worry over blitz's excess drinking, etc., and i wanna talk about it.

the thing is, i feel like this complaint is rooted in the most basic, somewhat cliche idea of the sin of gluttony, and a somewhat boring approach to bee's character in general. the idea is that, as the sin of gluttony, bee should be encouraging over-indulgence, excess, and the self-destructive aspects of party culture and drinking.

but she's the queen bee. she clearly explains that she can feel the "energy" of everyone at her party, and i think that's very important to analyzing exactly what gluttony means to her. instead of indulging in food and alcohol and drugs and being selfish (as gluttony is generally expected to be about), bee feeds on the ENERGY of the demons around her. and in order to get the best energy she can, she needs to be making sure everyone is actually having FUN and having a good time. gluttony, in this sense, is about EXTRAVAGANCE, having the best quality of everything, rather than just everything in general.

i also think this is why she was so put-off by blitz's actions. when he chugs the entire barrel of alcohol and then is absolutely wasted beyond all reason for the rest of the party, he's NOT actually engaging in her sin. he's not being gluttonous; he's not drinking to have a good time or to indulge or to have fun - he's drowning himself in alcohol because he's trying to forget and ignore all his problems, which is a sin much more akin to pride. his energy feels bad to bee because he's not having fun, he's deeply hurt and trying to distract himself by being self-destructive, which is NOT what her sin is about.

(also, remember, this is supposed to be part TWO of the finale. meaning, this episode (and the introduction of bee's character) directly goes hand-in-hand with the introduction of asmodeus, who's entire club IS about indulgence and depravity and everything you'd expect from the sin of lust. bee and the gluttony party are meant to be a direct foil to the energy of ozzie's.)

#like. gluttony is about the best QUALITY of everything of wanting the best that you can get #as opposed to lust or greed; which seem to be more about depravity and wanting EVERYTHING #also like. something so so good about gluttony being all about the positive aspects of party culture #the joy the color the vibrancy; encouraging moderation and being an attentive host etc etc #like what a subversion of expectations. i think it works SO well and stands as a really good foil to most of the other sins we've seen #anyway. rant done #mine #helluva boss #helluva boss spoilers #helluva boss queen bee #helluva boss beelzebub #beelzebub helluva boss #beelzebub #e: queen bee #analysis

[fromtheseventhhell]

Imagine being 9 years old and asking your dad about the things you're interested in doing when you grow up and he's like "No ❤️! But you can get married, have babies, and then maybe your sons can do those things ☺️🫶 "

#arya stark #one of those /wtf Ned/ moments #then people act like she invented misogyny cause she was like /uuuhhhhh no thanks that's not me/ #/Arya is masculine/ and she's literally just a child who has interests outside of her patriarchy-assigned role #the way people read this and then demonize Arya for not silently conforming like people expect her to... #that's the ingrained misogyny from being socialized in a patriarchal society speaking babes 😭 #cannot stress enough how Arya is just an average little girl and what makes her behavior stand out is their society's strict gender norms #her life + learning almost entirely revolves around the fact that she is being raised to be a wife and people resent her for wanting more : #she is NINE in AGoT and her parents are discussing her refinement because /In a few years she will be of an age to marry/ #the way misogyny is explored in Arya's story is actually so brilliant and well-written (+ underappreciated) though #we feel the full weight of how restrictive their society is through her POV and get the experiences of lower-class women too #which is why it's so significant that George wrote her based on feminists who realized they wanted more than becoming wives/housewives #she's one of his key characters who will /change the world/ but people think he's sticking her on a boat bc she isn't feminine enough 😭 #thank god he's writing the books and not any of these reductive hacks who thinks misogyny is subversive 🙏🏾 #sidenote: would've loved to see this from her POV to get her feelings when he said this cause I'm sure it doesn't match Ned's perception #considering he views her main issues as being stubborn/difficult while we know about the self-esteem issues she has

[dank-meme-my-gf-sends-me]

#garfield #comics #subversive #mastectomy cw #top surgery cw #funny #funny memes #memes #meme #trans memes #funny meme #dank memes #dank #wholesome #subverting expectations #breast reduction cw #surgery cw

[physalian]

How to Subvert Expectations Without Compromising The Story

Whoo boy, is this a contentious topic with the last few blockbuster franchises. To “subvert expectations” is to do the opposite of whatever your audience expects to happen. Your audience expects the story to go a certain way based on the archetypes and tropes your characters follow, the tone you’ve set for your story, and the level of mature themes that tone allows.

It might mean your long-lost princess doesn’t actually reclaim the throne she’s been fighting for. Or the presumed hero (or any of their straight friends) of the story dies halfway through their arcs. The mentor pegged for death actually survives to the end credits. The villain’s plan actually succeeds, or the heroes fail to deactivate the bomb before it explodes. The “will they/won’t they” is never fulfilled.

Supporters of SE argue the following:

It’s refreshing, novel, new, a fun twist on a classic tale

They like that it’s unpredictable and bold

They’re tired of stories fitting within the same wheel ruts of every other story that came before and like to see creativity thrive

It gives audiences something they didn’t even know they wanted

Haters of SE argue this:

It’s only done for drama at the cost of fulfilling character arcs

It’s a cheap gag that only works once and has zero rewatchability with the same impact

Tropes and archetypes have stood the test of time for a reason - to entertain

Plot holes ensue

When expectations are subverted and the story changes in a more positive light (like a beloved character who doesn’t die when we all think they will), the reaction is not nearly as emotionally charged as when the story changes negatively. Thus, the haters have plenty of evidence of bad examples, but minimize the good ones. Good SE is novel, or a pleasant surprise, or a quaint relief. Bad SE trashes the story and spits on the fans and destroys the legacy of the fandom.

What makes a bad subversion?

Like killing any character for shock value, bad SE takes all of the potential of a good story and gambles it for a string of gasps in the movie theater. It exists only to keep the audience on their toes, or because the writer went out of their way to change the direction of their work when fans figured out the mystery too quickly and now *must* prove all the clever sleuths wrong.

So, say your subversion is making the hero lose a tournament arc when they made it all the way to the final round and the entire story is riding on this victory. They may have stumbled along the way and had some near-misses, but they must win. Not just so the audience cheers, but because this is the direction their arc must take to be at all entertaining and fulfilling.

Then they lose, because it’s *novel* and irreparable consequences are reaped in the aftermath. They lose when, by rights, they were either stronger or smarter or faster than their opponent. They lose when the hand of the author rigs the fight against them and everyone notices.

Sure, it’s not at all what audiences expect, but you, writer, your first responsibility to the people consuming your content is to entertain them. So what purpose does this loss serve this character? How does it impact their arc, the themes that surround them, the message of your story?

Even if mainstream audiences don’t care on the surface about themes and motifs, they still know when a story fumbles. It’s not entertaining anymore, it’s not satisfying. Yes, crap happens in reality, but this is fiction. If I wanted to read about some tragic hero’s bitter and unsatisfying demise, I’d read about any losing side in any war ever in a history book. I picked up a fiction book for catharsis.

On the topic of “gritty fantasy/sci-fi anyone can die and no one is safe” – no author has the guts to roll the dice and kill whoever it lands on. Some characters will always have plot armor. Why? Because you wouldn’t have a story otherwise, you’d just have a bloody, gory, depressing reality TV show with hidden cameras.

What makes a good subversion?

Now. What if this character loses the final round of their tournament, but it’s their own fault? Maybe they get too cocky. Maybe it’s perfectly, tragically in character for them to fall on their own sword. Maybe the audience is already primed with the knowledge that this fight will be close, that there might be foul play involved, but still deny that it will happen because that’s the hero, they won’t lose. Until they do.

Then, it’s not the hand of the author, it’s this character’s flaws finally biting them in the ass. It’s still disappointing, no doubt, but then the audience is less mad at the author and more mad at the dumbass character for letting their ego get to their head.

If you write a character who’s entire goal in life is to win that trophy, or reclaim their throne, or get the girl, and they *don’t* do those things, then the “trophy” had better be the friends they made along the way, that they learned it wasn’t the trophy, it was something *better* and even though they lost, they still won. Even when expectations are shredded, the story still has to say something, otherwise the audience just feels like they wasted their time.

A good subversion does not compromise the soul of the narrative. You might kill a fan favorite character or even the hero of the story, but their impact on the characters they leave behind is felt until the very end. The hero might lose her tournament, but she still walks away with wisdom, maturity, and new friends. Heck, sports movies leave the winner of the big game a toss-up more often than not. Audiences know the game is important, but they know the character they’re following is even more important. Doesn’t matter if the *team* loses the battle, so long as the protagonist wins the Character Development war.

Good SE that should be more popular:

The “Trial of threes” – your hero faces three obstacles and usually botches the first two and succeeds on the third attempt. Subvert it by having them win on the first or second, lose all three, or have a secret fourth

Not killing your gays. Just. Don’t do it. That’ll subvert expectations just fine, won’t it?

Let the villain win

Have your hero’s love interest not actually interested in them because they realize they deserve better / Have the hero realize they don’t want the romantic subplot they thought they did

Have the love triangle become a polycule / have the two warring love interests get with each other instead, or both find someone they don’t have to compete for

Mid-redemption villain backslides at the Worst Moment Possible

Hero doesn’t actually have all the MacGuffins necessary at the Worst Moment Possible

Hero is simply wrong, about anything, about important things, about themselves

The character who knows too much still can’t warn their friends in time, but lives instead with the guilt of their failure

The mentor lives and becomes a bitter rival out to maintain their spot at the top of the charts

Kill the hero, and make the villain Regret Everything

More deadbeat missing parents, not just dead parents

Let the hero live long enough to become the villain

—

Why write a crown prince that never becomes king? What’s the point of his story if all he does is remain exactly who he was on page 1 and learns nothing for his efforts? Why write a rookie racer if he spins out in the infield in the big race and ends his story broken and demoralized in a hospital bed? Why should we, the audience, spend time and emotional investment on a story that goes nowhere and says nothing?

Cinderella always gets a happy ending no matter how many iterations her story gets, because she wouldn’t be Cinerella if she remained an abused orphan with no friends. We like predictability, we like puzzling out where we think the story will go based on the crumbs of evidence we pick up along the way, we like interacting with our fiction and patting ourselves on the back when we’re proven right.

Tragedies exist. There’s seven types of stories and the fall from grace is one of them… but audiences can see a tragedy coming from a mile away. Audiences sign up for a tragedy when they pay for the movie ticket. We know, no matter how much we root for that character to make better choices, that their future is doomed. Tragedy is still cathartic.

What’s not cathartic is being bait-and-switched by a writer who laughs and snaps pictures of our horrified faces just so they can say they proved us wrong. Congratulations? Go ahead and write the rookie broken in the hospital bed. I can’t stop you. Just don’t be shocked when no one wants to watch your misery parade march on by.

#writing resources #writing advice #writing tips #writing tools #writing a book #subverting expectations #subversion

[megaawkwardhuman]

it just hit me that this is the first season finale that doesn't end on a major cliffhanger

season 1 had the van helsing blood reveal

season 2 had the whole guillermo killing a theater of vampires thing plus revealing to the vamps that he was a slayer

season 3... was season 3 (what WASN'T a cliffhanger!?!?)

and season 4 had memo going to derek to make him a vampire

but the last moment of season 5 where laszlo and guillermo bringing derek back from the dead and that wasn't a cliffhanger like AT ALL

doesn't mean that the finale leaves us with no expectations or things to look forward to next season (guillermo no longer wishes to be a vampire and his relationship with the vamps have indeed changed for the better so it'll be interesting to see where that goes)

it just didn't give us a major what's going to happen note to end things on

and you know what? hot take: GOOD

to me it's a breath of fresh air after two months of chaos

plus idk if my heart could have handled a major cliffhanger

#I think this is why the season finale left me speechless #it was such a subversion I genuinely needed a moment to think and prosses everything #what we do in the shadows #wwdits #wwdits spoilers #wwdits season 5 #wwdits season 5 spoilers #wwdits s5 #wwdits s5 spoilers #throwing up my thoughts onto tumblr again #you walk in expecting your heart to be ripped out by the way things end #only for them to rip it out in the beginning #and once you get to the end they like kinda put it back in and offer you a juice box or something

[zetadraconis11]

HL Incorrect Quote #92

*in the Undercroft*

Sebastian, barging in: HELP! I TOLD MC I'D COOK DINNER TONIGHT BUT I CAN'T COOK!

Ominis: *munching on a chocolate frog* And you thought I could help?

#ominis would be a great taste tester since he has heightened senses imo #But I'm not sure he'd know how to cook #That would be a cool expectation subversion if he could cook tho #sebastian sallow x mc #sebastian sallow x oc #sebastian sallow #ominis gaunt #hogwarts legacy incorrect quotes #hogwarts legacy

[sammy-the-dead-dumpster]

Deku and Kacchan vs. All Might – Kacchan vs. TomurAFO

Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

The last and most obvious parallel to that fight: Katsuki is remembering Izuku's words and acting accordingly.

I figure most people expected Katsuki's words to lead Izuku to self-endangerment, not the other way around.

#bnha #mha #bnha meta #mha meta #bakugou katsuki #kacchan #deku #all for one #midoriya izuku #bakudeku #sort of #bkdk #bnha spoilers #mha spoilers #izuku midoriya #katsuki bakugo #katsuki bakugou #bakugo katsuki #of course i don't blame deku but holy cow i love a good subversion of expectations especially because #they're such parallels they match each other in soooo many ways

[violetdisasterzone]

here's my hot take for the night: way less people, if anyone, would misinterpret Maigu Ridge as rape if Shen Qingqiu had topped instead of Binghe

#like I cannot understand how you could possibly read that scene (and the aftermath!) and come to that conclusion #one person was conscious and making decisions and it wasn't binghe #NEITHER of them wanted it #much less thinking that scene was supposed to be kinky and sexy ??? #not to even mention its narrative purpose #not the Narrative Expectations happening in the Subverting Narrative Expectations book! shocking! #“but how is it subversive if the same things still happened!!1!” BECAUSE IT WASN'T GOOD AND DIDN'T FIX ANYTHING! THAT'S THE POINT #svsss #bingqiu #scum villain's self saving system #人渣反派自救系统

[littledreamling]

I need a Dreamling fic where Hob takes Dream to a coffee shop and orders the sweetest, most colorful thing on the menu (think Pink Drink from starbucks) for himself and gets a small black (decaf, of course) coffee for Dream

and then give me Dream stealing Hob’s drink because he very quickly discovers that he doesn’t like black coffee so they’re walking around campus and Dream is in his all-black, goth get-up carrying a bright pink drink and Hob’s struggling not to lose his shit laughing about it

#I want subversions of expectations #also I really need Dream to have a secret sweet tooth #dream of the endless #morpheus #the sandman #hob gadling #dreamling

[randomalistic]

LOOK AT THIS MAN. I just had my queer awakening for the 2nd time

#megamind #he’s bi #THUS WAS MY FAVORIYE PART IN THE WHOLE #MOVIE #HE SLAYS SO FUCKING HARD?!?????????? #FAV #They weren’t kidding when they said that movie can ‘SUBVERSIVE MASTERPIECE’ and ‘QUEER NEURODIVERGENT SUBTEXT’ #Movie review #ALSO THIS FILM IS SO MUCH FUNNIER AND MORE CLEVER THAN I REMEMBERED #LIKE ALMOST NO JOKES FELL FLAT #ACTUALLY HILARIOUS #AND THE CHARACTERS ARE SO BELIEVABLE AND ENDEARING #excluding tighten he’s written to be so insufferable it’s such a perfect villain thing #SO GOOD #UGHHHHH #I would rewatch this nth amount of times #congratulations you have become a favorite movie of mine. #ALSO ITS SO ICONIC?? THERE WERE LIKE 10 PARTS WHERE I WENT ‘OOHHH ITS THE THING!!!’ #also can I say I was pleasantly surprised by Minion #like you expect him to be a comic relief sidekick. NO. HES ACTUALLY A FLESHED OUT CHARACTER WITH CONFLICTS AND A RELATIONSHIP WITH MEGAMIND #whatever I love this movie💙

[whump-kia]

a whumpee who gives in easily, answers to the right titles, says what they're asked to say, follows the rules. no breaking necessary. immediately submitting. taking torture with whatever the whumper needs to hear, whether they're screaming and begging or refusing a single sound to leave their lips, their own little act of defiance being refusing the whumper the satisfaction of ruining them.

finally, the whumper gets tired of it. leaves the whumpee on the team's doorstep, a note saying "this one's no fun. take them back."

the whumpee, though exhausted, manages the slightest smug grin as the whumper stalks away, waiting for the team to open the door and bring them home.

#whump #whumpblr #whump prompt #whump community #whumpee #easily broken whumpee #pre-broken whumpee #subversion of expectation in whump

[possamble]

realizing im kind of a weirdo about laios and marcille

#possramble #ignore this im just babbling but #the thing is that like. i don't ship laios and marcille together. their relationship is so so important to me in that laios comphets himsel #and THINKS that he might be in love with her but he isn't and that's my insane obsession #platonic soulmates for real but they're so sweet together that i fully expect them to be shipped together #like i get it. that's almost the appeal for me. if dungeon meshi were any other series there'd be an epilogue where they get married #convention dictates that they're meant to be together as the male protagonist and his beloved female deuteragonist #but dungeon meshi DOESNT do that and i love it so fucking much they're the comphet besties ever for my strange little brain #like if i ever did an arranged marriage au it would absolutely be laios and marcille having a platonic political marriage and then just #the most insane mutual pining with marcille and falin while laios and marcille struggle their way into becoming best friends #the imagery of the king and his beautiful court mage being tender to each other and everyone thinking they're in love is like catnip to me #like yeah they'd be like that and have no idea people think they should be together and the subversion makes me so obsessed #the more people ship them romantically. the more i enjoy their platonic dynamic it's like some sort of weird comphet fetishism idk #people think they're in love and im outside the window like YES... YES!!! #but also the second i see stuff of them kissing on the mouth or fucking im like oh god no i went too deep in here i gotta get out #don't wanna see that. i'll go feral over the idea of laios and marcille being arm-in-arm like king and queen but they would not fuck. #i want marcille to be his default comphet beard and dance partner/plus one at official royal events but they're not kissing. #she's there on his arm because he's scared of the other noble women tryna get him and being a baby about it #and people see them muttering to each other and laughing and generally being very sweet and think that they're dating but they're not. #she's actually covered in hickies from falin underneath her dress and is gonna get dragon dicked right after the party is over #like she's in her bedroom and falin's helping her take her ridiculous dress off while listening to her complain about politics #and falin is the person she goes home to the person she falls asleep to and wakes up with #they're a triad of utter devotion to each other but only farcille's side of the triangle is romantic #it's almost like an open secret because they're not trying to hide it at all but people assume and are surprised to find out #like people are so right about her relationship with the toudens but with the siblings' roles switched #love of her life & irreplaceable life companion. does anyone get it #anyway. i don't know what's wrong with me #it bothers me that they're not the undisputed most popular het ship for marcille on ao3 #it's unnatural. marcille being paired with any other man should be a fringe case.