I'm not a "ship" person whatsoever but I do scroll character tags on occasion and see quite a bit of Vox and Vel together as well as what seems to be a lot of what I'm assuming is female original character stuff. I've even seen some Charlie and Vox too. So it's out there, but unless you're scrolling through character tags I can see how it might be hard to find. Personally, I also block/filter a lot of the big "ship" tags so maybe that also makes it easier for me to stumble across this stuff that "slips" through since I don't know if those pairings have names.
I get your point though. I do think many are inclined to erase his bisexuality when it's convenient. Interestingly, they also erase Valentino's pansexuality too. The same with Husk as well, but I check his tag a lot less so who knows.
What disappoints me, and I know I'm about to come off as nit-picky right now lol, is the lack of research people put into their "sexuality" headcanons for the characters with reference to their different eras. When reading some of them, you'd think the idea of "gay rights" was a completely new and foreign topic that only emerged after the early 2000s. I get people want to go for the simplistic "repressed and doesn't know what being [insert identity here] is" for some of the older characters but that completely ignores a fascinating and rich tapestry of queer history that could create far more interesting (and still accurate) stories for the characters/their backgrounds. I would really encourage those who haven't already or are generally unfamiliar to dive into this history as it might inspire their character ideas while also educate them on the work, art, and activism our queer elders have contributed to the community we have today.
I think this may partially relate to character ages being under explored as well. While I've seen debate on what is canon/has been decanonized many of these characters, as far as we know, died in their late 30s and beyond. That's a lot of life to live and experience. While certainly many people throughout history (and even today) kept their sexuality hidden from the public due to culture, shame, and safety that doesn't mean there weren't many incredible private venues/spaces that could be utilized to explore those feelings/identities in secret.
I could go on and on about this but I've totally strayed from your original point (I'm sorry!) and I'm very tired haha. I just think there are multiple factors coming into play here with these character interpretations and, for me, the biggest missed opportunity is the lack of historical research. But end of the day people should have their fun! Just an observation.
Completely agree with this! I doubt my response will be as long since I just woke up but other characters doing certain things or not knowing about sexualities is interesting, it just seems like a lot of people think older people don’t want to explore any of that like it only just happened recently as you said. I like to joke about Angel being shocked about gay marriage and not knowing a bunch of current terms but thats about it. With him being in the mafia when he was alive makes it much more interesting as well, I’m pretty sure around his time the mafia was blackmailing men in gay bars but dont quote me on that I might be wrong.
Anyway for Husk and Valentino pan erasure I see that a bunch too. Not exactly erasure but just… ignoring it? Moreso erasure on Valentino’s end because Ive seen people get mad at people for shipping Valentino with a woman and was like “hes gay dont do that” no he isnt. Also dont ship Valentino with anyone for the love of god. But like people are super used to just making up headcanons that they dont bother to look up actual canon stuff. I know Hazbin isn’t the best but if you want canonically LGBTQ+ characters use what you have and add on later. Or headcanon a background character, thats what I did with Molly.
People are very focused on modern day queerness and forget that this stuffs been happening for decades and it’s a bit sad. Also I seem to have strayed from my own question as well?? Anyway ty for mentioning this! Its very interesting 🩷
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Kinda had more time to articulate my thoughts, so here we go:
Do I think Bluestar made a very poor decision in neglecting her children, resulting in their deaths? Yes, and Goldenflower has every right to say, "I cannot forgive you for this, they were children, they did nothing wrong!"
HOWEVER, I do agree with Dissenting Anon that the Clan cultural beliefs/flaws/community overall play a more significant role in this "who's more at fault here" situation. To me, the vibe I got from TC was "we're mad at you for breaking the Code by having forbidden children, but also mad at you for neglecting said children." It's weird how the Clans react to these things...
I also find it interesting that Goldenflower says, "The outcry was awful. We were all angry at her...", which imo makes it seem like even she was upset about the affair? But I could just be misreading that.
Sorry if this was a bit incoherent, just had to speak on it a little more, I'm FASCINATED by all this, and I have a feeling Fireheart is going to try and change how the Clans view these kinds of things.
(Dissenting Anon)
The Clans are both the best and worst traits of cats heightened to an extreme. Cats are self-serving, pretentious, clever, well-spoken, loving, loyal and quick to recall a slight and act upon their initial reaction to it long after everyone else has forgotten that it happened. Put a bunch of unusually intelligent and community-driven cats together in one space and the generations will exaggerate all of these traits until their culture is unique among any others found in the world. All this to say that while the Clans have intensely positive and wonderful beliefs and traits that keep them together and helps them stay strong no matter what happens, they also are excellent at causing suffering through those same beliefs and traits.
Adding to this, they've developed a skill for doublethink that allows all of this to work together without anyone (native to the Clans) questioning it. Horoa catches all wraiths and monsters before they can cause any danger, but some still haunt the territories and will never go away. This cat did a very bad thing they're never allowed to forget, but we're never going to talk about it and we'll pretend it didn't happen. Kits are innocent and not responsible for their birth, but being a half-Clan cat or outsider is inherently shameful and you're automatically lesser than your Clanmates if your father is from outside of your community. So on and so forth.
The point of bringing this up is that I concur with you and the anon. The Clan-specific communities are absolutely the problem when it comes to situations like Bluestar's. The sad thing is that the rule of "no inter-Clan relationships" was developed to prevent suffering and loss, and in our two first examples in this series, suffering and loss is all they resulted in! And the Clans will never acknowledge that. It doesn't suit their fancies of who they are in their heads that they could be the problem. Bluestar is the one at fault, not us. We reacted appropriately. It's not our fault Bluestar was so scared of that reaction that she neglected her kits and they died without her love and care.
Breaking the law is a bad idea, but sometimes we ought to question whether that law was right in the first place. Too bad the Clans refuse to do that.
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Paul McCartney Interview in Q Magazine: Cash for Questions. January 1998 Issue.
Hi, all! A photo of one page of this has been around on tumblr for a while (here), but I’ve always wanted to read the full thing. Some lovely soul on Google Groups in 1997 decided to transcribe the full interview (here), so now I’m uploading it so you can read it. Hooray!
Q. When you first wrote a song with John Lennon, did you realise you would play one of the biggest parts in rock 'n' roll? (Michael McConnell, Crawley, West Sussex)
A. Obviously not. But even with all the so-called "historical" events that followed, you're just too inside it all, too busy doing it to realise anything's "historical". You just get on with it. I'm not a great ponderer. Some people would say that's a mistake but it's just the way I am. It's quite cool not to always get the overall picture because it leaves something to be found out. The musicologists get paid to discover the differences between me and John. I'm only just beginning to see it now, based probably on their analysis. So John is often one note, I'm often more melodic. (McCartney is thinking especially of Ian McDonald's book Revolution in the Head, where he describes the ace partnership in contrasts: Lennon's method is "harmonic, dissonant", McCartney's that of the "natural melodist".) It might sound amazing but we never spotted that when we were writing. We just did our thing. But it is kind of apparent when you bother to analyse it.
Q. If John Lennon could come back for a day, how would you spend it with him (Mark Wilson, Deeside, Flintshire)
A. In bed.
Q. Were you ever envious that Brian Epstein didn't fancy you? (Nick Gibson, London)
A. No, I didn't mind. We just used to go to these clubs at night and wonder why there were so many men. It was OK. Brian was very cool about his side to things. I think the nearest any of us got to it was the John-going-to-Spain thing (it inspired the movie, The Hours And The Times) and I'm not sure what the strength of all that was. I think it was power play on John's part. But Brian kept his private life aside. He kept it out of our faces (pause, possibly for effect). He kept it out of mine, anyway.
Q. What were the last records you bought? (Chris Timms, Harrogate)
A. The Prodigy's The Fat Of The Land, Radiohead's OK Computer and Chopin's Nocturnes.
Q. How do you feel about all the animosity between you and Oasis right now? (Christina Vellano, Syracuse, New York, USA)
A. There is none as far as I'm concerned. What happened was I'd said, Good group, good singer, good songwriters. But people asked me about it so much that one time I decided to take it further and say that they don't mean anything to me. I am not related to Oasis. I wish them good luck and everything. But my kids mean something to me, John Lennon means something to me, but Oasis ....
Q. Who would you pick to play with in your dream six-piece band? (Alan Thatcher, Essex)
A. Dream? So we're into fantasy, aren't we? Ringo, John, George, that's three. Me. Jimi Hendrix. That makes lots of guitarists, so Little Richard on keyboards.
Q. With Wings, did you feel pressurised to live up to The Beatles? (Andrew Williams, Neath)
A. Yes, it was a case of "follow that!". Impossible to do. Looking back on it, it's a lot better than I thought, though some of it is just not PLAYED as well as The Beatles. My son (James, co-worker on McCartney's last pop album, Flaming Pie) plays a lot of Wings, so I'm re-listening, and there's good shit that I'd forgotten about. A lot of the lyrics were off the wall, drug stimulated. Things like "Soily - the cat in the satin trousers says its oily". What was I on? I think the answer is stimulants.
Q. Do you still support the legislation of cannabis? (Grahame Woods, Northwood, Middlesex)
A. I would make a distinction between legalising and decriminalising. I'm in favour of the latter. The problem is that jails are stuffed full of kids doing what a lot of people do. Why stuff the jails with young kids? Plus it's one of the best places to score. I remember when I got busted in Japan, nobody made the slightest effort to rehabilitate me (laughs). Just stuck me in a box for nine days. Obviously you come out and you are fairly resentful.
Q. Do you roll a wicked joint? (Steve Kline, Bury)
A. I have nothing to say in answer to that question, m'lud. I wasn't even at the venue.
Q. The critics have been harsh on your solo work. Did this ever discourage you? (Robert Hemauer, Madison, Wisconsin, USA)
A. Yeah, sure, but you don't let it kill you. It's a difficult one, because it's never cool for someone to tell you you're shit. Many people through history were damned by the critics of their own time - Cezanne, Van Gogh, Stravinsky, all great painters! Ha ha!
Q. We'd like to see your paintings but can't get to the exhibition in Germany (McCartney unveils his work for the first time in Siegen, Germany, next year). Any thoughts about putting your paintings on "tour", or publishing a book of them? (Kathy Goodman, San Diego, CA, USA)
A. A difficult one. If you're a so-called celebrity - like Bowie, Anthony Quinn, Tony Curtis - and you exhibit any art, inevitably, people are not going to think of you as a real painter. Gallery owners come up to me and offer to give me exhibitions. I say, You haven't seen my pictures, and they say, It doesn't matter. Well, it does to me. Otherwise, it's just trading on the name. However, this guy from Germany came over, looked at all my paintings, seems to like them. He's telling me what they're all about.
Q. You've done so many things - classical, films, music, art, drugs - is there anything left you might have a go at? (Tim Bowler, Swansea)
A. The thing is how reluctant I've often been to have a go. I think we were brought up pretty repressed. Brought up to be seen and not heard, to stay in your place, particularly a working class thing. And I think - I hope - with The Beatles, we got rid of a lot of that. With the painting, for instance, it was Willem de Kooning who liberated me. I used to go to his studio, took in one of my paintings, said, Hey Bill, I hope you don't mind but can you tell me what it is? (Affects American drawl) "Oh, looks like a couch." Well it looked like a purple mountain to me. And he says, "Well, whatever." Here's one of the greats, his works go for one million, and it was great to see how little bullshit he was bringing to it all. It's really important to explode these myths that surround the arts, music, painting. It's Wizard of Oz time - so many myths, and it's often just a little man behind the screen. The paraphernalia that surrounds them gets in the way. Often you meet leaders in their field and they have none of that. I remember asking a great painter - Peter Blake, maybe - for some advice once, and he said "Just paint a lot". Similar to my approach to music.
Q. How do you know when a song's finished? (Joyce Slavik, Palatine, Illinois)
A. It's full up. You've answered all of your questions. Normally, I start following a thread: "Eleanor Rigby picks up the rice ... " The thread might come out of nowhere, and I follow it and complete it, like a crossword puzzle. When the crossword is full up, the song is finished.
Q. What's more embarrassing: writing Hi Hi Hi or Say Say Say? (Tien Vu, Costa Mesa, California)
A. (Weighs up pros and cons). Say Say Say.
Q. Why did you give such extensive interviews for an authorised biography (Paul McCartney: Many Years From Now) instead of writing an autobiography? (Deena Hochberg, Southampton, Pennsylvania)
A. I don't think I'm a writer. I've never been moved to do it. You have to have a pretty big fire in the belly to do something as big as that. I fancy music more. I'm happier writing in songs rather than in prose, or poetry. Though I wrote something that was never published about the time I got busted in Japan - for my kids. Because I knew one day they'd say, "Hey dad, what was it like, nine days in a Tokyo jail?". So I had a mate of mind, who did all our printing, knock up a few copies, one for each of the kids.
Q. I'd like to know if Sir Paul sings in the shower, and if so, what does he sing? (Jennifer Nash, Bursville, Minnesota)
A. It's normally the bath. I prefer a good bath. And the answer's Firestarter - "I'm a firestarter, de-de-de-de-dera."
Q. As a kid you used to play pranks at school by throwing balloons filled with something "worse than water". If you had one of those balloons right now who would you like to hit with it? (Brett Yuskiewicz, Leipzig, Germany)
A. Jonathan King. He's a prat from way back.
Q. Which football team did/does each Beatle support? (WC Chan, Maryland, USA)
A. None of us were big footie types. We weren't very sporty, unlike other groups who were always having knock-arounds. My dad was an Everton fan, which I was most of my life. But then Liverpool started playing well, and Everton didn't, so I took the unprecedented move of supporting them both. It's not allowed, I know, but there you go.
Q. For years, you've claimed it's you in the Walrus costume in the Magical Mystery Tour film. But watching the footage shows that for it to be you, you and John would have had to exchange all your clothes. Are you winding us up, or have you not watched the film in 30 years? (Dorothy Northcutt, Tucker, Georgia)
A. The big one. Very good question. I tell you what it was. In the stills we had taken, I was the one with the Walrus head on - in the film it's different. So John then immortalised it in Glass Onion, "I've got news for you all, the walrus was Paul". Obviously at the time you don't care, it's just a Walrus head. You don't realise years later people like our friend from Georgia will analyse it.
Q. What is the quality of each of the other Beatles that you like(d) the best about? (S. Breggles, Richmond)
A. All of them - musical talent. All of them - honesty. Ringo -funny, and kind hearted. George - straightforward and open. John - witty with a soft centre, or maybe hard with a soft centre.
Q. Do the copulating beetles on the sleeve of Ram (1970) stand for F**k The Beatles? (Luc Van de Wiele, Wemmel, Belgium)
A. It happened to be a picture Linda had taken. We couldn't resist it just because of the way it looked. She'd caught these two beetles f**king, and then the significance hit us. We saw that pun, yeah, thought why not?
Q. Was there ever a third Lennon song for Anthology 3? (Jake Lennington, Rush City, MN, USA)
A. There was, but George didn't like it. The Beatles being a democracy, we didn't do it.
Q. I have a Beatles t-shirt which I bought from The Grapes (celebrated Liverpool pub). I was told the band are pictured in their favourite seats - adjacent to the Ladies where you would often catch a glimpse of the girls changing for an evening at The Cavern. True? (Alan Tomkins, Goring, West Sussex)
A. I hope so. It SOUNDS true. Had there been an opportunity to spot the girls changing, I'm sure we would have sat there.
Q. If you hadn't been a musician, what do you think you would have been? (Tony Carter, Manchester)
A. The only thing I could have probably qualified for was teaching. So I might have been an English teacher.
Q. Does it do your head in - stuff like the handwritten lyrics to Getting Better selling for $249,000 at Sothebys? (Peggy Robinson, Trinant, Gwent)
A. It's the price of fame - literally. You scribble them on the back of an envelope, and it gets to be famous. People want it, so it becomes a desirable object. Like Mozart's bog paper, which is another highly desirable object, apparently. More valuable obviously if it's been used.
Q. What is the inscription on the ID bracelet you wear? (Rachel Hyland, West Harford, Connecticut)
A. It says Paul - for when I forget who I am.
Q. How does it feel to have a star named after you (the christening courtesy of American astronomy fans)? (John Sales, Barry, Glamorgan)
A. Really cool. The good thing is that as you get on, your fans get on too. And some of them are pretty swotty. Like the people who started Apple, they were just Beatles fans, hence the name. You don't sit around looking at the sky, trying to find it, but it's like getting a very nice birthday present. I'm not religious, I don't believe in any one system - I sort of think the universe is basically benevolent and we f**k it up - but I am spiritual. I saw Stephen Hawking on TV the other night, and he was saying that we are made of the same stuff as the stars. Which is great. We are all stardust, luv.
Q. What do you want written on your gravestone? (Tom Mangold, Exeter)
A. Here lies Gracie Fields. Anything to keep people away.
Q. Hey, is it true you are dead, and if you are, what is it like? (L.A. Patterson, Hamlet, North Carolina)
A. Yes. And it's very interesting. It's a very interesting afterlife.
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