#but seriously stop making psychopath characters disabled

[tuttle-did-it]

I haven't seen this, and I probably won't, but I'm really tired of the 'let's show disabled people as psychopaths and murderers and people who constantly destroy stuff.'

I'm also tired of abled actors playing disabled actors when there are disabled actors out there. If you're going to make movies about us being pyschopaths and murders, I can't stop you. But at least hire someone who has the condition the main character has. There are Deaf/HoH actors out there who could have played this role if they really wanted to make the movie.

Abled actors can play disabled or abled roles. Disabled actors can really only play disabled roles. So until that changes, at least cast a Deaf actor in the role.

#deaf #disabled #actors #disabled actors #tired of disabled characters constantly being shown as dangerous psychopaths #stop casting abled actors in disabled roles #there are deaf actors who could have played this role #but seriously stop making psychopath characters disabled #films

[fate-motif]

here's the character traits i think predisposes characters in the jigsaw franchise to get brainwashed by jigsaw and become a jigsaw killer themselves:

they have to believe that they did something wrong, and that they atoned for it when jigsaw tested them

they have to be already somewhat comfortable making life or death decisions for other people

we all know pee-paw's self-help seminar from hell isn't just an alleged self-help seminar, but doubles as retributive justice in case the person fails (in his eyes). so whoever is offered to join up with jigsaw has to be comfortable with both sides of the ideological operation in play. it's not enough that they were severely traumatized and have a hole in their lives that they could fill by being part of this cult, though those things really predisposes them for the brainwashing. multiple characters were targeted to join the jigsaw movement and did not feel the vibe, so i think i have it isolated to these two traits.

further thoughts under the cut

how we see this in the apprentices

this puts all three main character mainline franchise jigsaw apprentices in a very clear light, really. amanda thinks john helped her overcome her addiction and redeemed her for the things she did as an addict. lawrence acknowledges how he neglected his family and took them for granted so hard that he cut off his foot for them even though there was no guarantee they would be alive when he got out. hoffman is perhaps the one that feels he owes john the least (since he at least partially came in on the scheme purely through blackmail) but considering his intense passion for brutally punishing the guilty i think it's safe to say john testing him jolted him out of the apathetic, drunken stupor he had been living in since his sister was killed, and that he thinks that's a good thing.

(your mileage may vary as to whether logan nelson blamed himself for john's cancer going undetected, but as a coroner he seems to take his job extremely seriously. if john sparing his life caused him to take action in appreciating his life in any way, i think it's fair to say that it got him to give his everything when at work.)

and as for the life or death decision making for others, it's crystal clear at least to me why the people that joined up did. two are doctors and one is a cop. these are professions where making life or death decisions for others is required, even if you're doing everything you can to save someone's life. amanda isn't either a cop or a doctor but having been an ex-con i think it's safe to say the high risk environment may have predisposed her to feel more comfortable taking decisions that may lead to someone's death.

and it's not really a coincidence that it's cops and doctors, either. both policing and healthcare are embedded in the themes of the saw franchise. john kramer thinks jigsaw is a doctor that doubles as a cop; healing a sickness if the patient is worthy, killing them if they aren't. that's why i think a lot of traps that people like to claim 'don't work' because the players aren't being tested for a flaw or misdeed still suit the jigsaw ethos perfectly. because pee-paw may act high and mighty but what matters most to him is the retributive justice aspect of the traps. and this is the same for all his apprentices as well.

except for brad and ryan, really, but they're more than anything victims of saw 3d's rushed writing. they're only there to help lawrence stop hoffman, since a disabled oncologist might struggle to take down the armed and dangerous cop turned serial killer. even then i can sort of squint and see those two as thanking jigsaw for intervening on letting this one woman ruin their friendship and make them commit crimes when she didn't value them. the atoning aspect, weak as it is, may be complimented by the fact that jigsaw just netted himself a couple of honest-to-god psychopaths because they didn't look even a little remorseful to have to kill their girlfriend when they reached their truce. oh, well.

but what i like about my conclusions is that they really explain why the victims who were set up to be brainwashed failed

not every jigsaw game victim would make a good apprentice

yes, up front: john kramer has lost his mind when he thinks anyone would ever want to join his sick little crusade. most people do not want to kill and can't find killing in most capacities to be vile. also most people's reactions after being tortured would be to immediately try and attack their torturer. and yet the madman actually netted three people to help him out. it's such an insanely lucky number, really, proven by the fact that hoffman tries to recruit two cops and fails.

two cops. one of them had engaged in police brutality, let a colleague cover for him, and respected and defended colleagues that engaged in it. the other one may have been a little too classy to punch suspects in the face, but the way he treats jill tuck speaks to the opposite of any respect for people's dignity. both of them are fine murdering jigsaw game victims who were only attacking under the extreme circumstanced they were in! and yet they didn't even hesitate when hoffman tried to sell them on the life of being jigsaw, the ultimate policeman!

because neither of them thought they had anything to atone for.

while rigg has an entire library of things to atone for, what hoffman wants him to regret and feel bad for is letting his desire to save people affect the people around him. maybe if hoffman had any kind of emotional intelligence he could have pitched his traps to make him consider his actions on others, but instead all his arguments came down to 'look at these weak, pathetic people. they're sick, deep down, so it doesn't matter if they die when we torture them'. which rigg was never going to believe. he saw his desire to save people as innately good and unchangeable, which is correct, of course. it's just that the actions he takes are absolutely hopeless to actually save anyone in hoffman's eyes, because that desire makes him careless but in mine because policing saves no one. so of course he could never have become a jigsaw killer, because his traps did not make him think he had something to atone for.

as for strahm, hoffman didn't even bother brainwashing him, and that's why obviously he was never going to get in that coffin. the water cube trap was a straightforward execution. strahm had already seen a jigsaw trap mutilate perez for no reason other than to get them off his trail. by the time he reaches the coffin there was nothing in the world that could have convinced strahm to join hoffman.

it really speaks to how far gone and twisted hoffman is that in either of these cases, especially strahm's, hoffman thought there would be a chance either of them would even think about joining forces with him.

could any other jigsaw victims have made good apprentices?

i have a couple of ideas.

before we get to the candidates i'm going to address the apprentice adam angle, because it's a common au and everyone loves adam and wants him to be alive. also because it's a fun angle for chainshipping. this is your opening to send me chainshipping fanworks where larry tries to brainwash adam into joining him! but as it stands in canon i don't think adam would have found it in him to join the serial killers because he's not the kind of guy with a developed killer instinct. yes, he's depressed and suicidal in the original script. yes, the bathroom game makes him say out loud he wants to stop taking his family for granted. but he killed zepp in the very urgent scenario of trying to stop zepp from shooting lawrence, and i don't think he has it in him to deliberately put people in torture games where it's very likely they'll die. especially since, before jigsaw, adam had never met anyone he would actually find it in him to kill on purpose. though neither had lawrence, so i will give the adam apprentice girlies a point there.

the writers of the first movie say that zepp was having a blast when he kidnapped gordon’s family so he’s clearly he’s got the killer instinct needed for the job. the problem is that even john would be able to tell by a glance that zepp wouldn’t be able to stop himself from indiscriminately harming people as opposed to using violence for their ideological leanings. there’s a reason he was poisoned instead of merely asked to join. so while a rare find in that he might have already been primed to be a serial killer already, we all know john loves his delusion of doing violence for a higher purpose and zepp would ruin that illusion very quickly.

the only candidates i think would have been perfect otherwise would be brit and mallick from the fatal five. i've mentioned this before but they feel like they've atoned for their crimes through their game and were delusionally euphoric by the end of it. and so long as the victims chosen were on the scummier end of things, i could see both of them prompted into villainy.

you know who else got prompted into villainy? brett abbott. which is kind of insane to say considering he's a kid and i feel for him even though he did literally murder a man. it's just very hard for me to hate a kid suffering under institutional injustices even though he let that suffering out through murder. but all i'm saying is that under the right trap brett and the fatal five survivors were the more ideal candidates for apprenticeship... if only john was there.

yeah. hoffman doesn't have it in him to coax anyone into anything. he's a homemade nail bomb, not a leader. he would probably even dismiss brit and mallick right off the bat over their now missing hands, and you can't tell me he would have the patience to groom a teenager like brett. amanda and lawrence are also not exactly winning in the charm department. so really once the cult's charismatic leader kicked the bucket their way of life was doomed to eat itself from the inside out.

which is exactly what happened.

... don't ask me to think very hard about anyone in jigsaw because i've forgotten 95% of that movie

#saw franchise #saw x #jigsaw killer #john kramer #amanda young #mark hoffman #lawrence gordon #logan nelson #jill tuck #adam faulkner stanheight #adam faulkner #adam stanheight #brit stevenson #mallick scott #daniel rigg #peter strahm #brett abbott #tara abbott

[chxrrysangel]

You’re My Friend

Summary || The highway scene in CATWS if Bucky’s mask didn’t fall off (Steve’s POV)

Warnings || violence, major character death, crying, vulgar language

You do not have permission to post my work anywhere else

Sam sits in the driver's seat, the trio on their way to Triskelion. They're running out of time.

"HYDRA doesn't like leaks," Sitwell says. He's not a very smart man, admittedly. A hostage shouldn't have such a smart mouth if they hope to survive the drive.

"So why don't you try sticking a cork in it." Sam is growing agitated; many lives hang in the balance as we speak.

Natasha pulls herself between Steve and Sam, arm sitting on the center armrest. "Insight's launching in sixteen hours, we're cutting it a little bit close here."

" I know. We'll use him to bypass the DNA scans and access the Helicarriers directly." Steve scans the freeway looking out for suspicious black Sudans signature government vehicles. You know, if they wanted to me more unsuspecting, maybe using vehicles that blended in with the general public would've been a smarter move. Steve knows what they need to do, and they have to do it fast. The government doesn't like bugs meddling in their garden.

" What?! Are you crazy? That is a terrible, terrible idea."

Jasper doesn't have to time to really finish his argument before a metal hands clasps around his neck, throwing his body into oncoming traffic on the other side. He dies instantly, which is to be expected. It's ironic how vermin like him end up being roadkill.

The Winter Soldier begins to shoot strategically into the top of car, careful to produce as many deaths and waste as little bullets as possible. Luckily no one is hit, but they must act quickly if they're to walk away with their lives. Steve pulls the break handle, sending the assassin hurdling towards the pavement in front of them. He turns his body, titanium fingers scraping against the concrete like metal being cut with an electric saw. He returns to his feet instantaneously, the four entering a standoff as cars whisk past them in a hurry. Steve, Natasha, and Sam begin to understand the gravity of their situation, the neurons in their head running like Usain Bolt of an Olympic track. They don't have time to think however, before another vehicle crashes into them from behind. The mystery machine continues head on, sending them into the direction of immediate danger.

The Winter Soldiers leaps over the hood of the moving car, grabbing onto the front frame. Glass shatters everywhere as his steel-toed boots make contact with the rear window. Time is moving quickly, too quickly for them to catch up. Their lives hang onto the edge, supported only by the weight of the Natasha's ability to make contact with the gun swimming at Steve's feet. Unexpectedly, the assassin pulls the steering wheel from Sam's grasp, causing the car to barrel down the highway with unsurmountable chaos. Now, they're seriously in some deep shit.

"Shit!," Sam screams.

As Natasha begins to shoot back into the top of the car, Steve brags his shield and everyone in the car into his arms.

"Hang on!"

Steve breaks open the door and the three glide across the highway as the car tumbles, rolls and crashes into several others. HYDRA and the Winter Soldier are merciless. They're unconcerned about loss of life, as long as their targets are among the body count. The Winter Solider fires a grenade in the Captain's direction, sending Steve and his shield over the edge of the bridge. He flies into an oncoming bus, causing a multi-car collision in the Washington D.C streets.

The Winter Soldier stalks to the edge of the bridge, expecting to see Natasha walk across the pavement and shoot her down. However, Nat isn't easily tricked. She catches sights on the assassin's shadow from under the bridge and shoots him in the eye as her shadow meets the sunlight. Ducking down in case she starts to fire, rage begins to pool in his stomach and swim through his veins. Targets are usually not this difficult to kill. He needs to be more aggressive.

Она у меня. Найди его. (She's mine. Find him)

The Winter Soldier leaps over the edge of the bridge, landing on a car below and destroying the front windshield in the process. Mind determined and kill-mode in operation, the Winter Soldier is done playing the children's game. They die, today. Guns blazing and fear pumping through her veins, Natasha must act fast. She places a recording behind a car and makes a run for it, hoping to catch this psychopath by surprise. In the distance, Steve takes notice of the Winter Soldier going after his partner and looks towards Sam for guidance.

"Go, I got this!". Sam is trustworthy and skilled enough, Steve thinks to himself. He'll survive just fine.

Hearing her panicked voice just on the other side of the vehicle, the Winter Soldier rolls a bomb under the engine. However, Natasha having the upper hand, catches him off guard and leaps onto his shoulders. She makes a brave attempt to choke him out, only to be hurled over his body and into a car across the street. Natasha throws a one of her taser discs towards the man, disabling his titanium arm and giving herself a short window of time to escape. He's never experienced that before, previously believing this arm to be indestructible. But a tiny disk makes him useless, how does that happen?

Nat runs in the direction of a crowd of people, urging them to run with their lives. She might be a highly trained assassin, but she doesn't believe in collateral damage. People shouldn't have to die if they don't need to. In the process of her trying to save civilians, the Winter Soldier shoot her in the shoulder, sending her diving towards the pavement. Steve jumps in an attacks the man. The two engage in gun to shield combat, desperate to take the other down. The Winter Soldier is on his last leg, knowing he's running out of bullets quickly. Twirling knives, flying shields, shoulders twisting the limit of near dislocation, the two are a sight to see in the distance. The assassin lunges towards the Captain, before being flipped over and creating a several foot distance between the two. They begin to enter a standoff. Who will take the first step, they think to themselves. Just as they prepare to continue, Sam comes to rescue, kicking the assassin towards the ground several feet away. On his feet in an instant, the two men make eye contact, daring each other to try and kill the other. In this same moment, an injured Natasha sends a grenade in his direction. The strange man vanishes in the smoke of the explosion.

Sirens sounds among them, letting the trio know they've been caught by HYDRA. Rumlow, of course, is present to watch their defeat ensue.

"Drop the shield, Cap! On your knees! Get on your knees! Now! Get down! Get down!" Hands up and knees on the ground, the three feel suffocated, confused, and exhausted by the day's events.

"Put the gun down. Not here. Not here!" Rollins and Rumlow make a silent agreement from their positions across the street.

Rollins lowers his gun and HYDRA agents take Steve, Sam, and Natasha into custody.

~~~~~~

[Inside the Helicarrier, Steve is confronted by the Winter Soldier.]

"People are gonna die, man. I can't let that happen. Please, don't make me do this." Steve might have a mission, but he sits firm in his beliefs. He would rather people be unconscious than dead. He doesn't believe that people should die unnecessarily. However if push comes to shove, what will be will be. Steve realises that the man won't give up until his heart stops beating. He throws his shield at the man and revisits his attempt to put the Targeting Chip in the system. He doesn't make it far however, before the assassin attacks him again. The chip falls from Steve's hand onto the level below them. A hand-to- hand combat commences as the two men battle for the fate of Project Insight. If Steve doesn't get that chip into the system in the next two seconds, hundreds of thousands of people die. And it'll be all his fault.

At some point during this battle, the Winter Soldier catches Steve by surprise and dives a blade directly into his shoulder. He drops the chip and the assassin captures it between his fingers like stolen treasure. Steve, painfully but successfully, manages to retrieve the knife from between his shoulder blade. Knowing time is not of his side, the Captain manages to grab the Winter Soldier by the throat and put him in a headlock

"Drop it! Drop it!" Steve needs this to work, it has to. Unsurprisingly, the stranger refuses causing Steve to break his arm in desperation. He holds the man's throat desperately and tightly until he falls unconscious, providing Steve with the perfect opportunity to complete his mission.

"Firing in, three, two, one."

At that moment, Steve manages to get to the upper level and place the chip in the Helicarrier's targeting blade, overriding the system and locking it down. Project Insight has failed.

"Okay, Cap, get out of there." Maria calls to Steve via their communication system. She then proceeds to change the Helicarrier targets to each other, meaning the whole thing will go down with Steve inside if he doesn't escape.

"Fire now."

"But, Steve..."

"Do it! Do it now!" Steve knows he doesn't have the strength to escape the Helicarrier in time. He's too wounded and if he escapes, he knows the assassin is just as capable. He completed his mission, he's done what he set out to do. Steve looks over to the edge of the carrier, seeing the assassin stuck under a large piece of rubble. As much as he realizes it's a terrible idea, Steve does the right thing and goes to save him from such a body-crushing death.

"I'm not trying to kill you. I don't need to, but I will if I have to." Steve's heart aches for this guy a little bit. He's clearly under some level of brainwashing. He doesn't speak and has a one-track mind, almost as if he was made just to kill people. Steve's mind might be a little outdated, but he can tell when people's actions aren't of their own free will.

The Winter Soldier seems only enraged by Rogers's unwillingness to fight back. He's trying to kill him, why would you not fight back?

Steve makes a last attempt to reason with the man above him. However his efforts goes unnoticed as his fist collides continuously with his face. Steve is sure that he's broken something. But he doesn't care, he needs to get out of here. With all the strength he can muster, Steve pushes the man over to his right, a few feet away. He rolls over onto a lone piece of metal still attached to the Helicarrier base. The Winter Soldier makes an attempt to continue his mission to kill Captain America. But before he gets the chance, the Helicarrier bases beneath his body gives way, sending him into the river below.

Standing on the edge of the Helicarrier, watching the body of his attempted killer fall through the sky like a flightless bird, dread starts to pool in his stomach. That could just be the blood gushing through his diaphragm, making every breath feel like dying over and over again. He struggles to stay conscious, awaiting his imminent death like a masochist. Although he could just jump in the water right now and take a chance, he doesn't see himself making it to shore. However, staring at the dead weight falling before him, he begins to second-guess his choices.

What the hell am I doing? Steve doesn't normally feel like this seeing bad guys go down. But... something about this one man continues to pull at his heart strings. Something's not right here, he thought to himself. Steve clips his shield to his back and prepares to make the dumbest decision of his life.

Here goes nothing.

~~~~

Carrying another person's body while being critically injured is not an easy task Steve comes to learn. The beat he took today is none like one he's ever received thus far. Every brush of his arms makes him feel closer to an eventual collapse. He could just stop right here, but it's just his life that hangs in the balance if he gives up. He has to do this, for the both of them. Seeing shore in close proximity, Steve pushes his body into overdrive, overjoyed by the sight of land. He pushes the man onto his stomach in hopes that the water will find its way out of his lungs and onto the sand. The mission today was to create as few deaths as possible, and Steve won't let someone else die at his hands( at least not before they find out why he was after them in the first place). Ask questions first, take action later.

Steve lays on his back for what feels like an eternity, fighting off sleep and trying to gather his bearings. He can't die, at least not before making sure Nat and Sam are safe. There's too much hanging in the balance at this moment. After gaining some level of strength, Steve begins to crawl over to the unconscious man a few feet away. His organs feel like they might just drop onto the sand with every syllable he utters. Steve doesn't think he's ever been in this much pain before. This guy has to be a super soldier, he thinks to himself. How else could he be so strong?

"Man," he chuckles to himself while turning over the body, "you are unbelievably heavy. What do you weigh? A ton or someth--"

The rest of Steve's sentence dies in his throat at his eye's meet the mystery man's face. It can't be. No, that's not possible. He...he died...

"Bucky?" Steve can barely make a coherent thought, his brain is scattered like the Helicarrier debris in the ocean behind him.

"This isn't possible," Steve stands up abruptly, pacing back and forth across the lone beach.

I saw him die. I saw it. The rail snapped and he fell into the Danube River during the Zola mission. I saw it. Steve turns around the look at the face again. That's Buck, he knows it. Those crystal blue eyes are unrecognizable. Girls back in the day used to say that Bucky's eyes reminded them of the sky at daybreak, a blue that you'd give your life to drown in if he only let you. He could recognize his best friend's face in a crowd of millions, his features permanently stitched into the fabric of his mind. It's at this moment that their current situation begins to process. He has to save him. He can't die.

Steve runs to Bucky's body and begins to attempt to resuscitate him. He doesn't care if he collapses in the process. The most important person in his life is laying in front of him. If he dies, Steve might as well be dead too. He spent 70 years locked in ice and several years roaming this Earth believing his best friend died in that icy river. He can't give up now. Steve begins to pump Bucky's chest rapidly, so much so that he might break his chest cavity. He knows that he should be more careful, but he's desperate.

"Bucky, please!"

*pump*

"Buck! You can't die yet!"

*pump*

"James!" Tears begin to roll down Steve's cheeks and his throat becomes dry as he screams out for his best friend.

"James Buchanan Barnes, wake the fuck up! I need you!" He doesn't know what he'll do if this doesn't work. He can't even think of a world in which it doesn't, that's too heartbreaking. Steve would walk through fire, beds of glass shards and nails, just to talk to his best friend again. In an unfamiliar lonely world, he needed Bucky. And now he has him, but he might not get to keep him. Bucky was his lifeline when they were kids, the only person who saw him as an equal and didn't tease or belittle him for small stature. He made him feel seen. What Steve wouldn't give right now just to be perceived by him again.

*pump*

"James, Bucky, please. I need you..." Steve's voice is barely above a whisper at this point. His head feels like it weighs a thousand tons yet as light as a swaying feather in a cool summer breeze. The blood loss is getting to him. The tears floating down his cheeks begin to increase in speed, like a damn finally breaking open.

After several minutes of pumping and blowing air into his body, Steve's hands begin to slow down as reality starts to set in. There's no coming back from this. He spent years believing he died, drowning in that near frozen river. It's almost ironic come to think of it. Steve thought Bucky died by drowning, only for him to actually die several decades letter by Steve's hands--also by drowning.

"I killed my best friend.." Steve whispers into the atmosphere, like he doesn't want anyone to hear him say it. There's not a single person for miles, no one would hear him anyways.

Steve's throat begins to tighten, choking him as he breaks down. He begins to hyperventilate, desperate to take in any air that's willing to enter his lungs. But the panic and grief he's experiencing make it nearly impossible. He feels like his heart is going to give out, beating so rapidly that it might just jump from his chest cavity. "I did it. I killed my best friend."

Steve takes another look to the right of him, sobbing harder as his eyes confirm what he already knew. If Steve the pain he was experiencing earlier was bad, it's a needle prick compared to this agony. The world has stopping spinning, the earth's orbital path taking occupation in his head as thoughts and memories begin to make room for themselves at the forefront of his mind. Every shared sandwich, every homework answer, every laugh, every beating in an alleyway where Bucky came to save him, every night out dancing, has led to this one moment. It's over, it's all over. This is the end of the line.

#stucky #steve rogers #bucky barnes #the winter soldier #captain america and the winter soldier #crying steve #til the end of the line

[popwasabi]

“Joker” Review: Send in the (Problematic) Clowns

Directed by Todd Philips

Starring: Joaquin Phoenix, Robert De Niro, Zazie Beets, Frances Conroy

 “Joker,” on paper at least, has a message most us can all agree on.

Over the last five or six years, mental health has been a subject of increasing importance for a variety of reasons from millennial burnout, substance abuse, increases in suicide and the stigma is slowly dying away. People are more concerned than ever about it and, generally speaking, everyone wants the system to do better at addressing it in society.

(”Office Space” continues to be more and more relatable every year...)

Throughout its two-hour runtime “Joker” makes the case for better mental healthcare and a society that’s more empathetic to the mentally ill. For some viewers this is a much-needed discussion on a complicated topic through the medium of pop culture’s most famous psychopath. 

For others (me), the problem is it goes about this in an extremely problematic way that grossly mischaracterizes the problem, the people afflicted by it and namely who the victims really are, making some of the pre-film controversy unfortunately not all too inaccurate.

“Joker” takes place in early 1980s where a man named Arthur Fleck cares for his disabled mother in an increasingly hostile Gotham battling the unfair social structures of society. Arthur struggles with his mental health, seeing a social worker each week, taking multiple psychoactive drugs to keep his mind intact, and failing to keep down a Tourette like laugh that estranges those around him. As the world gets increasingly more difficult to live in around him Arthur begins to see himself in a new way and wonder’s what the point of participating any longer in it, thus beginning a series of events that will change his life and the city forever.

One of the core appeals of Gotham’s most sadistic psychopath, The Joker, has always been that the motives behind his violence have rarely had a clear reason behind them.

Other than to piss off Batman, The Joker just kind of does things because he can and kills for the exact same reasons. There’s no reasoning behind it, he just doesn’t believe in much of anything. It’s just chaos and he loves it. There’s some twisted nihilistic appeal to that in a cruel world that relentlessly reminds us many times of it and it’s what made the Clown Prince of Gotham such an iconic villain across all forms of media.

Because we all kind of want to stop caring, even just a little.

(Iconic.)

But what happens when you try to give a character like this a reason behind his twisted psyche? Does it take away or enhance the character? Many writers have toyed with this concept but never concretely answered it whether it was Alan Moore alluding to him having a “bad day” in “Killing Joke,” or the intentionally vague and confusing backstory Christopher Nolan gave the character in “The Dark Knight.”

The question behind who The Joker is, and why he is, is never truly answered in any case. They still tend to keep it mysterious because well, giving a concrete reason to this character’s particular madness kind of takes away from what makes him interesting. To quote Ledger’s Joker he’s an “Agent of Chaos” and nothing more. The Joker doesn’t care so why should we?

(Let’s really not care about this version though. Like seriously. In fact, throw it in the trash and shoot it into the sun...)

But director Todd Philips decided to give the character his first real motive behind his psychosis in “Joker” and while it can be admirable that he attempted something no other writer or director has done, and in some small way has a positive message to it, the results is at best a boring slog of a movie and at worst a problematic depiction of the mentally ill.

“Joker” certainly get’s A-pluses in plenty of areas of course; Joaquin Phoenix probably deserves an Oscar for his twisted depiction of a pre-clown prince Joker as he fully takes on the character’s twisted, emaciated skin and Philips certainly creates a believable pre-Batman Gotham city with some effective Scorsese-esque shot creation and sets. The movie though is extremely predictable as nothing all that surprising happens from beginning to end. It’s just one shitty moment for Arthur after another, culminating with (SPOILER) Arthur’s encounter with a young Bruce Wayne that leads to the final moments of the film.

(Did we really need to put Bruce through this again onscreen? The MCU gave Uncle Ben a reprieve at least...)

I wish I could get into the more superficial reasons this movie doesn’t work, such as its overly self-serious dialogue, Philips making some perhaps unintentionally humorous moments in the movie but the problem is truly it’s muddled script that appears to not really understand what mental health issues look like and who the real victims are.

“Joker” appears to make the case that society has largely ignored and left behind those with this stigma, that we are responsible for not engaging with the problem actively and not caring about the problem. Throughout the film, Gotham and its inhabitants are relentlessly cruel to Arthur, sometimes to the point where it can be over the top, showing that this is what we do to people like Arthur in the real world. They are beaten both physically and mentally and we refuse to understand or acknowledge their existence and their problems.

In this way the film almost endorses Arthur’s eventual turn to violence as the price paid for ignoring people like this.

(I’m amazed how literal some of these memes ended up being after watching this movie...)

Again, the problem with this film isn’t that this isn’t a tremendous issue in society because it is; suicide rates are climbing, despite progress in mental health awareness many country’s still stigmatize it as a “you problem,” and healthcare in this country, well you know the drill. The problem is the film seems to make the claim that these folks who are left behind by these broken systems are in danger of becoming violent monsters and it’s fucking gross.

I cannot stress this enough when I say this but there is NO CONNECTION between mental health problems and an increase in violence. In fact, they are far more likely, ten times more likely in fact, to be the victims of the kind of monster The Joker is in this movie.

The idea that simply better healthcare will make those with mental health issues less likely to commit violence isn’t a new one. The NRA and other small-brained politicians (left and right) have been scapegoating them since the days of Columbine and our doofus of a “president” isn’t far behind in licking those boots. 

In the wake of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas shooting, as protesters did walkouts to decry gun violence, the mental health “advocates” made a counter protest called “walk-up” encouraging students to talk to each other more and engage with the outcasts in their schools.

While I certainly can agree that we should all try to be nicer to each other instead of not at all, it grossly ignores the fact that the shooter, Nicholas Cruz, was reportedly abusive, sexist and racist to his fellow classmates. Tell me, in what world would it be smart or safe, especially for a female student, to engage with a guy like this? Cruz didn’t kill people because he had “mental health problems,” he killed people because he was evil asshole.

(Yup, these people definitely look just some misunderstood social outcasts who were just in need of a few more hugs and some happy pills. Yup....)

Again, I can’t stress this enough lack of mental healthcare doesn’t make super villains; it’s pure fiction like this movie. Throughout the film Arthur is bombarded with slight after slight after slight be it from the institutions that leave him in the dust or the people around him. The movie kind of wants to state that the intuitions need more help but weirdly at the same time shouldn’t be trusted as Arthur is openly hostile with them throughout the movie. It’s almost comical at times as after a while and some viewers might find themselves after a while going “ok, we get it. The world is really mean to this guy, when does he become The Joker?”

The point is though, the motives behind great acts of violence have rarely, if ever, been about not being able to get access to some guy’s prescription drugs. In fact, the truly mentally ill are far more likely to be a danger to themselves than to others (as stated in a few of these articles linked already).

But for argument’s sake let’s pretend that this is not meant to be a literal depiction of how mental healthcare in society has failed people. Let’s say its metaphorical instead, that those with mental health issues become monsters within their own minds, hell the movie kind of alludes to a bent reality that may or may not have happened within Arthur Fleck’s mind.

(It’s actually one of the few narrative choices I liked about this movie, so A for effort, Mr. Philips.)

The problem with that is that again it depicts the mentally ill as monsters instead of the victims of those kinds of people. The movie does make a point of depicting the system as monstrous but again a person like The Joker as a product of that is misleading of what is actually going on.

Depicting the mentally ill as monsters, be it metaphorical or literal, will do more harm than good to those who are afflicted by these issues.

While I do not subscribe to the idea, necessarily, that movies create shooters these films definitely don’t exist in a vacuum either. Afterall there are still d-bags who think Tyler Durden is the real hero of “Fight Club,” and idolize maniacs like Al Pacino’s “Scarface” because they’re “badass’s.” I went into this movie thinking the pre-trailer controversy was likely overblown but I came out of it thinking some incel asshole could absolutely find something to relate to in this particular version of The Joker.

This movie has proven to me that the Joker’s origins are simply best left mysterious. He is just best used as a stand-in for chaos and anarchy with no specific goals or ideologies. Though his psychosis has certainly been the stuff of speculation behind his motives for decades by the fans its never been about him being crazy so much as it is about him being the antithesis to Batman’s ridgid sense of law and order.

(Probably the best cinematic depiction of that clash of ideologies.)

The Joker is a fascinating character and there’s a reason fans have gravitated to him for so long and inspired plenty of writers, directors and actors to try their hand with him. But any amount of understanding regarding what’s going on with mental health in society will take you out of this movie almost instantly for most people.

I think fans of this movie have perhaps latched on to the right messages of the movie, namely that we do need to do better with mental health and the mentally ill in this country, and I definitely don’t disagree with that, but the conclusions this movie appears to come to just aren’t right and it makes the movie damn near unwatchable for myself at least.

I’ll close with this though, “Joker” is inspiring in one way and one way only for me and that’s that it may cause a change in the way Hollywood see’s this genre of movies. I’ve written extensively myself about how, at times, the MCU has too rigidly adhered to the blockbuster formula and created almost a factory-line style of movies for the general populace to devour but a film like this, that is enjoying quite a bit of success right now, could change the way major studios approach these characters.

(The blockbuster formula can be great though sometimes if done right. Exhibit A ^)

Superheroes are modern Greek myths these days and have tons of source material and nuance to mine for directors and writers. Restricting them just to simple heavily CGI, action blockbusters is a disservice to their extensive catalog of stories and the comic book writers that made them famous.

While “Joker” is definitely not my favorite comic book movie of all-time I can respect that it took the risk of doing something different and going against the grain of most of the rest of the genre. If it inspires Hollywood to greenlight newer and more unique depictions of these characters I’m all for it.

In the end though, “Joker” is a mess of a movie that sends some right messages but ultimately the wrong one. If you enjoyed it great, I won’t stop you but I do ask  you to think about how this movie could be twisted in the wrong ways as well.

After all, we live in a society...

 VERDICT:

2 out of 5

Can we all agree at least this is still the best version of The Clown Prince of Gotham?

#Joker #Joker movie #The Joker #Batman #The Dark Knight #Batman Begins #Christopher Nolan #Todd Philips #DC #DC comics #DCEU #Dawn of Justice #MCU #Marvel #Marvel Comics #marvel cinematic universe #Heath ledger #joaquin phoenix #Robert Deniro #martin scorsese #Gotham #Gotham City #Comic Books #comics #graphic novel #The Killing Joke #Mental Health #Mental Health awareness #mentally insane #insane

[dramanovellife]

Listening Snow Tower: Final thoughts

I finished watching Listening Snow Tower yesterday and well while it was nice I have a whole lot of rant accumulated. The first half was quite enjoyable but I somehow lost patience during the second half so I was kind of speed watching a lot.

The main characters Xiao Yi Qing and Shu Jing Rong are truly quite something as a couple... She kept distrusting him and he would just take it without clearing the misunderstanding even when she was asking about it... He’s maybe hurt she doesn’t trust him or maybe he just can’t be bothered but argh that was infuriating. No trust no communication. Even at the end, they did it again and I was seriously questioning her love towards him. In the end, turns out it was actually a show for the bad guys. That was a very convincing show ^^”

I feel so sad for Nan Chu. He was such a good shixiong :( Why did they have to kill him off...

On the other hand, Chi Xiao Tai’s ending is not that bad. Life confinement? Looks like she can still walk around inside the tower if she was just chilling in the armory. She’s been such an infuriating spoiled brat from beginning to end. She’s been in love with the traitor for a very long time and yet because she’s a spoiled stubborn brat who won’t stop until she gets what she wants, she wanted to get her shixiong’s love and ruined everything doing that. She kept going on about how mad she was that she can’t compare to SJR but why do they always love to compare really... It’s not even a matter of who is the most beautiful or the strongest. I really don’t get women in drama sometimes... They either want to kill the rival (like that will help) or destroy everything (cause hate is better than being ignored). I guess her biggest punishment is losing the one who loved her all along due to her stubbornness.

I really don’t feel sorry for Gao Meng Fei/Qing Yu though. He was quite likeable at the very beginning but I lost all hope for him the moment he abandoned his shimei. Selfish ambitious no loyalty. He fell in love with the wrong person and that brought out the worse in him. They do make a good terrible couple though.

Another disaster of a person is Ming He. Seriously drama parents, treat your children with a bit of love. It’s either spoil them until they rot or be so harsh they become psychopaths. She latched onto the poor Qing Lan who showed her kindness and was so handsome...and would never let go. Because ofc love is being together forever with the person you love even if that person might not be willing. She’s the worst case of *I need to kill my rival*. She’s a pitiful love craved person who could have had a chance with Qing Lan if she wasn’t so crazy and vicious.

This show is truly full of foolish people. Another great and infuriating example is Gao Huang & Ye Feng Sha and Ren Fei Yang & Shi Ming Yan. Walking around in the enemy territory? Leisurely shopping? Very good idea. Maybe the first couple didn’t think they would strike in broad daylight but second couple should have learned from it.

The worst is that dark crazy SMY blamed YFS and RFY’s deaths on XYQ... I can kind of understand for RFY cause his death might feel like it was nothing since XYQ didn’t attack the Moon sect. But YFS??? How can that even be blamed on him?? The girl decided to die together with the person the Moon sect was targeting. XYQ told them to leave Moon sect territory fast but what did they do instead? Shopping. No sense of danger here. SMY wants the Tower to rush at Moon sect but she clearly doesn’t understand that rushing with no guarantee or plan is a very bad idea. RFY pretended to be Li Consort’s son for nothing indeed but that was all because of GMF who ruined the plan.

Crazy as she is, SMY even broke her own legs. And for what? I can’t believe SJR gave her the almighty sword at the end lol To be wielded by a righteous person sure. SMY is far from what I would call a righteous person. Besides, she’s a disabled little girl who can’t even wield a sword to begin with.

Best girl in this show is Qian Mei, the girl who was to be married to the Long guy. She’s such a strong person who stuck to her principles. It’s a pity the show seemingly forgot about her until the last few minutes. If anything she’s more worthy of the almighty sword.

Oh well end of my rant xD Complained a lot about this show but it was still pretty nice and visually pleasing. I particularly loved the architecture in the Tower. So elegant. Very good ost as well. And well sickly but badass ML? Yes all the way xD It even had a happy ending :D

EDIT: OMG I almost forgot about XYQ’s mother. I’m honestly surprised at how weak and useless she was all throughout the show. Did they somehow strip her of her martial arts? Or did she just lose her mind after being confined for so long? Her decision to go back to Moon sect was the worst ever. I doubt it helped at all. It just launched her husband and son on a quest to save her.

#Listening Snow Tower #听雪楼 #Cdrama #my rant #my thoughts #final thoughts

[mimixis]

Towards the sun - Part 1: Towards the sun

Paring: Ivar x OC

Word Count: 3092

Summary: Pia just wanted to go to work, but oh well, shit happens.

AN: Hello there! I’m kind of new to posting on Tumblr and there may occur some errors on my part, but please, bear with me. :)

I’m not native English speaker, I’m still learning so if you catch some mistakes, feel free to let me know. :)

“Fuck!” she swore for the fourth time.

Pia took a deep breath in and then exhaled, wanting to calm down. She has gone through this forest many times on her way to work regularly, but now she felt like she was in a completely different dimension. There was no path she always used, she didn't pass the house of the gamekeeper, and she couldn't see the tall chimneys of the factory behind the crowns of the trees.

She cursed again, more annoyed than alarmed. She pulled out her phone to call her boss to inform him she would be late but it refused to obey. There was no signal. She sat on the ground and leaned against a tree. Pia wasn't a person who panicked quickly and without a reason, but this situation seemed too stressful.

First of all, she had no idea where she was. Unquestionably, it was not the forest, that separated her house from the main road, and the passage to the city. Secondly, her phone didn't work. She had no way of contacting anyone to ask for help. Thirdly, it was dusk and Pia didn't feel safe.

She trembled. She didn't know whether it was because of cold or out of fear. She started humming to get hold of herself. When her heart beat more calmly, and she was sure of her voice, she sang.

“Turn your face towards the sun. Let the shadows fall behind you. Don't look back, just carry on. And the shadows will never find you,”

She took a breath to keep sing, but when she heard a rustle in the bushes, she stood up immediately. She opened her mouth to question who it was, but she didn't fancy being a stereotypical dumb blonde girl from horror movies. She took off her backpack, clenched her fingers on it, and pressed her back against the tree, hoping to blend into it. But nothing like that happened, and the noises became clearer.

When a figure crawled out of the bushes, Pia nearly screamed. Her eyes were wide open in horror and shock. The boy stopped moving and looked at her. However, she wasn't looking at his face, but at his legs. She didn't see blood, but he could be injured. His unusual clothes also caught her attention.

“Are you in need of help?” she asked weakly. The boy raised his eyebrow. “Your legs...”

“I'm a cripple.”

"It seems to me, that 'a person with a disability' would be a more proper term," she said, watching him crawl toward her. She wanted to step back, but she hit the tree behind her.

“You don't have to be afraid, sváss snót*,”

Pia didn't know how to react. Not only to his unknown words but also to his behaviour. She moved away a few steps to give him room to lean against the tree. Though, before she could pull back completely and run away, the boy grabbed her ankle. Her brown eyes met his blue ones. She lost her footing for a moment, but somehow she regained her balance.

"Sit next to me," he demanded.

Pia sat down when his fingers disappeared from her ankle. Her heart was beating fast, her body was shaking, she broke out in a cold sweat. She felt like crying. She got lost in the woods, she didn't have a phone signal and a strangely dressed psychopath would kill her. She leaned against the same tree as he, put her backpack between her legs and began to rummage through it, feeling his eyes on her. She took out a pack of cigarettes and a lighter.

“Would you mind terribly if I had a smo...” she started out of habit, but quickly stopped. If she was about to die, she had the right to the last wish.

She pulled her scarf down. She put a cigarette between her lips, lit it and immediately relaxed. For a few seconds, she even forgot that someone was sitting next to her. She looked at him and her lips parted. She was looking at him earlier, but now that her mind was not overwhelmed by fear, she could see how gorgeous he was. Thick, raven-black hair, piercing eyes and sharp features. For a moment she wanted to touch him. She directed her hand with the cigarette in his direction, offering him some instead.

The boy had been fascinated by what she was doing, but now he seemed unsure. Pia understood that despite her suggestions, he didn't know what to do.

“You take a cigarette between your fingers. Then you put it in your mouth, you drag on it, so that the smoke reaches your lungs,” She showed all the steps in turn, and then released the smoke, creating circles. ”Then you exhale.”

She gave him the cigarette again and this time he accepted it. Pia hid her face in the scarf and watched how the stranger tried to do everything as she said. He inhaled and then coughed. Pia laughed, ignoring his furious look. The boy threw the cigarette away, ignoring her 'hey!' and grabbed her shoulder tightly.

Pia paled. These few minutes of relaxation were a mistake. She shouldn't have left her guard down. The boy took off her hat with his free hand and then unwrapped the scarf. Pia tried to break free, but it didn't work. His grip was too strong. When he finished, he looked at her and she saw her reflection in his eyes.

Tousled hair, glazed eyes, red cheeks and nose. Her lips were gently parted, ready to scream.

"You are different from everyone I know," he said. His voice quiet, the accent very hearable. He put his dirty fingers on her neck, ideally placing them on the pulsing vein. “You don't behave like people from England, and yet you speak their language. You don't dress like them or like my people. Who are you?"

“What do you mean?” she asked confusedly. “Who are your people? Where am I? Who are you?”

"Answer my questions first," he growled, his face dangerously close to hers.

“I'm Pia Petersen, I was born in Great Britain, I'm twenty-two years old and I'm studying acting.”

“Where is Great Britain? And what acting is?”

Pia stared at him blankly for a long moment. She didn't know whether to take it seriously or as a joke. She blinked several times. She changed her position so now she sat in front of him, not beside him.

“No, no, no! Now is my turn! Where am I? And who are you?”

“I'm Ivar, and you will come with me.”

;:;

Pia followed Ivar for three reasons.

The first, quite obvious one, she didn't know this forest and had no idea where to go. Secondly, she preferred to look at him than to have him to look at her. Thanks to that, she felt a little safer. The third reason why she didn't run away the first moment he looked away was, she had no idea where she was and she really needed help.

Pia didn't ask questions as they walked, but she listened intently to what Ivar has been saying to himself in his mother tongue. It was very similar to Icelandic, her mother's native language. She knew only basic words. As a child, she was not interested in acquiring another language, and she had to start learning it when she moved to Iceland with her mother five months ago.

Ivar spoke mostly about that his brothers would not believe him, that Floki would be astonished. She had no idea, who his brothers and Floki were or what was fascinating about her, but she calmed down. The boy's slow movements had put her in a trance, which she had only wrested out from when Ivar turned to her.

“Answering your previous question, we are in Kattegat. Only a few people know your speech. None of my brothers has that skill, so don't be surprised when they do not answer your questions.”

Pia nodded, listening to him with one ear and letting out with other. All her attention was absorbed by the bustling town. The merchants were shouting all at once, women were looking at the fabric to buy. The crowd was so huge, and Pia was afraid she would get lost among them. There was also another problem.

“Ivar, right?” she asked, wanting to be sure she was pronouncing his name correctly. He looked at her. “I don't want to be rude, but... How are you going to get us through this? Will you be like Moses for whom the sea parted?”

“Who is Moses? And how did he do it?”

“It's a story for a different time,” she replied after a moment, shocked. “But in short, it's a character from the Bible.”

“Are you a Christian?” he snarled, grabbing her ankle hard.

Pia groaned, feeling his fingers leaving bruises on her skin. She tried to escape, but the boy jerked harder and she stopped moving.

“And why does it matter?”

"Are you?"

“No!” she answered truthfully. However, she had the impression that if she were, she would have to lie for her own good.

Ivar stared at her for a few seconds, his eyes glistening dangerously. A smile crept over his lips and he threw a satisfied 'good' in her way. They turned to the right and Pia guessed that it was for them to be able to walk smoothly. She wrapped the scarf around her tightly, when the wind blew harder.

She saw that people who were passing them send her questioning looks, but she tried to ignore that. Even when they entered building full of people, that was staring at her, she tried to act with dignity and didn't hide in her too large jacket.

Ivar stopped and slid on the bench near the table. He talked to people resting there, leaving her alone. She stood in front of them and pretended that everything was perfectly all right and that she didn't feel awkward and uncomfortable at all.

She eavesdropped once again. This time not only on the boy but on his conversations with other men. The situation was more difficult now because alcohol made their speech less understandable. She understood, however, that they were talking about England, Odin and revenge. She didn't comprehend what exactly because she only knew that three words. She craved to take the cigarettes out of her backpack, but she was embarrassed to make any move. She didn't feel confident enough and the boy's behaviour wasn't helping.

"Don't be shy, come closer," Ivar said, beckoning her with a wave of his hand.

Under normal circumstances, she would mumble, she was not a dog, but in this unfamiliar environment, she preferred to fulfil his simple desires. She came up to him without even looking at his friends. He extended his hand, pulled off her hat in one movement and with the other her scarf. He put them on the table and Pia wanted to ask him to give her things back for two reasons. Firstly, she had nowhere to hide her face. Secondly, they were made by her grandmother and she for sure didn't want anyone to spill anything on them.

She gave up quickly because someone distracted her. A hand appeared on her hip and Pia without thinking, knocked it down. She moved closer to Ivar and caught his tunic with her thumb and index finger like a child holding its mother's skirt when they were afraid. Her behaviour was amusing, even to the person, that touched her. Ivar was pleased like the cat that got the cream.

"Hvitserk just wanted to say hello," he laughed and then spoke again. “It's Ubbe, Bjorn and Sigurd. Hvitserk, you've got to know. They are my brothers.”

Pia smiled crookedly and put her hand forward to greet them, but they stared at her blankly. She withdrew, feeling blush on her face and cleavage.

“You don't shake hands to say hello, do you?” she asked embarrassed. Ivar looked at her with amusement, nodding. “Please, let them know it's nice to meet them.”

He did it, and they lifted the goblets up and then drank from them. Ivar shifted to the side and patted the seat between him and Ubbe. Pia sat down and instantly clam up, not wanting to touch any of them. She put her hands on her knees, not knowing what to do with them. She felt someone put her hair behind her ear. This move was so delicate and unexpected that Pia jumped up, bumping into Ubbe.

Her large eyes were focused on the boy's face and his raised hand. She quickly returned to her position, seeing that hurt passed through his face. It sounded strange in her mind, but she didn't want him to feel rejected. She might have been afraid of him at the very beginning, but now she didn't have a reason to be. He brought her to the village, she wasn't lost any more, and she hoped that he would help her. Sure, he was a bit bizarre, but everyone here seemed to be.

"I'm sorry, I didn't expect you to..." she began, but seeing that her apologize meant nothing, she made her hair go back to its previous position and smiled shyly. “Try again, this time I will react correctly.”

Ivar's jaw was clenched and his eyes shone wildly. And though he looked intimidating, Pia was not afraid. She turned her head towards him and waited for his move. Finally, after a time that seemed like an eternity, Ivar once again tuck her hair behind her ear. This time his fingers touched her skin. He caressed her forehead, her cheek, and stopped at her neck. Pia shivered.

"So..." she started the conversation, trying to get rid of the well-known feeling in her lower abdomen. The names of his brothers, as well as his name, seemed familiar to her and she only wanted to determine her preposterous assumptions. “I know you certainly have questions, but let me ask you one first?”

"If you promise to answer mine," he said, ignoring his brothers, who wanted him to translate something.

“Of course,” This assurance seemed enough for him. She took a deep breath. ”Is your father Ragnar Lothbrok? Are your brothers Bjorn Ironside and Sigurd Snake-in-the-eye? Are you Ivar the Boneless?”

“The answer is 'yes', to all your questions,” he whispered as if he was revealing his innermost secret, but there was a mocking smile on his lips. ”It's my turn now. Who are you and where is Great Britain?”

Pia heard him ask her a question, but the shock didn't let her do anything. So she looked at him with her mouth wide open and wondered how all this was possible. There was no doubt that what was happening was real, but how?

Ivar awoke her from her thoughts. He pinched her cheek firmly as if she was an unruly child.

“Great Britain doesn't exist yet. And as I said before, I'm Pia Petersen, I'm twenty-two years old and I'm studying acting.”

“How can you come from a place that doesn't exist?” His fingers disappeared from her neck, and he was caressing her hair. The boy's voice perfectly expressed his feelings. Apparently, in his eyes, she was quite simple-minded. “And explain what acting is, please.”

"The simplest answer to almost all your questions would be... And please, don't think I'm mad," she stammered stressed out, moving closer to him. She put her hands on his and squeezed. “As you probably have noticed, I don't fit here, and that's because I'm not from here. Please, believe me, I really do not lie... I'm from the future.”

Ivar looked at her for a long time. Then he looked at their joined hands, how their knees were touching. Then he looked back at her face. She knew how she had looked. Hair stuck to her face from sweat, her eyes wandering and her breathing shallow. Despite the fact that she felt like a woman who had just fled from the asylum, Ivar's lips rose up and now he looked like a lunatic one.

He leaned to the left to look at his brothers. He spoke to them very quickly and Pia didn't understand a word. The brothers looked at her, then at Ivar. Disbelief and awe on their face. Bjorn laid something on the table and told Ivar something about the map. Ivar focused again on her.

“What did you tell them? Did you tell them I have lost my mind?”

“Do not be ridiculous, heimskur.** I told them the truth. Gods sent you to show they are supporting us," he paused, seeing that his words were not reaching her. “Now be a darling and read this map.”

Pia didn't ask unnecessary questions. She preferred not to know what he meant and why his gods would do it. That's why she looked at the map. And yet she had some question.

“So what do you want to know?”

“Everything you know.”

"I've never been good at geography so it will not be much," she murmured and studied the map. “Well, it's a map of Europe. One of the seven continents. We're part of it, England is part of it.”

Bjorn pointed to the unsigned part of the map, and Ivar translated his question.

"It's Spain," she answered and waited for another question.

Bjorn turned the map over and put something on it, that was supposed to be used for drawing. Ivar explained to her that his brother wanted her to draw a map of the world she knows. Pia looked at Bjorn with a raised eyebrow. He only urged her with a wave of his hand. She lifted the backpack from the ground and took out a notebook and a pen. She laid it on her knees and drew a map of the world with awkward movements. It was not perfect, but it was best she could do. Bjorn wanted to continue asking questions, but Ivar didn't let him.

“It's time to go to the ritual.”

“Ritual? What ritual?” she asked, terrified.

“Oh, do not worry. You will not be sacrificed. Gods have only now given you to me, haven't they? Now come on, I do not want to be late.”

Pia took her hat and scarf, but before leaving, she grabbed goblet from Sigurd's hand and drank its contents.

"I needed it," she said, looking at his startled expression.

Sigurd didn't know her language, but he understood what she wanted to say.

_____________________

(Part 2)

*sváss snót - sweet lady **heimskur – silly Pia sings Rihanna song 'Towards the sun'.

#ivar #ivar the boneless #ivar's heathen army #ivar lothbrok #ivar x oc #ivar x reader #ivar imagine #ivar fanfic #vikings #vikings imagine #vikings fanfic #vikings fandom #vikings fic #ivar ragnarson #alex hogh andersen #ivar imagines #ivar ragnarsson #ivar ragnarsson imagine #vikings ivar #history vikings #ivar the boneless imagine

[preserving-ferretbrain]

Tokens, Lampshades, and the Trouble With Deconstruction

by Dan H

Wednesday, 30 June 2010

Dan finds Glee “Problematic”~

There is nothing more infuriating than middle class white boys claiming that some event that mildly irritated them gives them a profound insight into the world of the disadvantaged. “I once blamed immigrants for my own failure, therefore I know what it's like to be discriminated against” that sort of thing.

With this warning, let me tell you about my recent epiphany about stereotypes.

Kyra and I bought the first series of NCIS in order to stop ourselves from having to watch the eye bleedingly awful Lie To Me (tip from the experts: if a woman says she was raped, but isn't acting scared, she's lying).

Anyway NCIS was going well, and largely avoiding the buckets of fail that saturated Lie to Me. And it had a cute goth forensics chick and a Big Machine That Does Science so yay. Then we got to episode four: The Immortals.

In this episode, a young seaman (it's a naval crime show) was found drowned in full dress uniform, with weights tied to his waist.

Amongst his personal effects they found a character charter from an online fantasy game.

The rest was a checklist of horrendous gamer stereotypes.

Gamers unable to distinguish between game and reality. Check.

Gamers made violent by video games. Check.

Gamers driven to murder and/or suicide as a result of online interactions. Check and check.

Use of phrase “taking the game to the next level” (seriously I have seen this in every TV show about video games ever) check.

I mention this because there is a small part of me which , every time I see a horrendously stereotyped character on TV, says “well that's probably quite offensive, but I suppose you have to remember that the stereotype wouldn't exist if there wasn't some truth in it.”

Watching stereotypical portrayals of groups to which I actually belong reminds me that no, actually a lot of stereotypes are just outright fucking lies.

None of this has much to do with anything, but we'll be coming back to it later.

The Magic of Knowledge

So anyway, Glee is a not-exactly-musical not-exactly-comedy about a High-School Glee Club (the clue is in the name) which goes from humble beginnings to be all that and a bag of chips.

The pilot follows the foundation-slash-resurrection of the Glee club, with the recruitment of its six initial members who are respectively:

Rachel, an overambitious girl with dreams of stardom (to the extent that every time she signs her name she puts a gold star next to it, which is a metaphor, for her being a star). We are told that Rachel is very talented.

Finn, a boy who the Dead Poets' Society-esque teacher behind the Glee club frames for drug possession and then blackmails into joining Glee, for his own good.

Kurt, a fabulous gay boy who the writers edited into the show because they were so utterly taken with the actor. He is, to be fair, adorable – although it might be worth pointing out that the character he plays was originally supposed to be Indian. It might also be worth pointing out that Glee has won awards for diversity.

Mercedes, a fat black girl. Astute readers may note that this is the point where the character descriptions get, shall we say, shorter. Mercedes declares early on that she “ain't no backup singer”. This rapidly proves to be wishful thinking.

Tina, an Asian girl. I genuinely do not know what to make of Tina. She dresses in this quirky, slightly gothy style and her audition piece is a rather nice, slightly raunchy rendition of I Kissed a Girl. But she never actually says or does anything. Ever. It's almost like the costume department put more thought into her personality than the writers.

Artie. Artie is in a wheelchair. Artie also seems to spend a good part of the first episode pulling what I can only describe as “disabled face” - leaving his mouth hanging open and twisting his head to the side like he's trying to chew his own ear. Artie is not played by a wheelchair-using actor.

As

one of the many reviews

that have said all of this before put it: “Mmmm, token-y”.

So yeah. Tokenistic.

But wait! It's okay because the show knows that it's being tokenistic! It is using these “tropes” to be satirical!

Years ago there was a comedy sketch show in Oxford which I didn't actually see, but one of the better exchanges in it, as reported to me by my younger brother was as follows:

“It's not racist, it's satirical!” “What's it a satire of?” “Black people!”

This nicely sums up the issue with the awful stereotypes in Glee. Apparently the mere fact of acknowledging them excuses them. It's not a stereotype if you know it's a stereotype, because then it's satire. You don't even have to subvert or challenge the stereotype in any way. As long as you know about it.

That's the power of knowledge.

Glee gives us a central cast consisting entirely of stereotypes, and does nothing to challenge them.

What it does challenge, however, is the idea that presenting the characters as stereotypes is in any way bad.

Apologia, Apologia, Apologia

The tokenism in Glee is irritating, but it's one of those things I can kind of let slide. It's just a fact of life: fish swim, birds fly, Peter Molyneaux writes crappy video games, and TV shows include token black characters and get given diversity awards for it.

Except.

Except, except, except.

About halfway through the first volume of the boxed set there's an episode in which Sue Sylvester (the evil cheerleading coach) decides to take a “divide and rule” approach in her private war against the Glee Club, sowing dissent amongst the ranks by spreading the completely unsubstantiated and unjustified idea that the Glee Club doesn't give equal representation to its minority members.

The whole episode (Wikipedia informs me that it was entitled Throwdown) is excruciating. Unlike some commentators, I don't have a problem with Sue Sylvester, because I think it's fairly clear we're meant to disagree with her, and that's what makes the episode so difficult. Basically they take all of the criticisms people have of the show and put them in the mouth of a raging psychopath.

So Sue Sylvester splits the glee club in two and seduces all of the minorities over to her side with honeyed words and filthy, filthy lies.

Sylvester's “false” criticisms of the Glee Club boil down to the following:

That the minority characters are margainalised. They are.

That the minority characters are made to stand at the back and act like props. They are.

Two things about this episode are particularly frustrating. The first is that real, legitimate criticisms of the show are presented as lies invented by a balls-out villain. The second is that the minority kids are kind of made to look like idiots for being taken in by the whole thing. Mercedes' unalloyed delight at being presented with Hate on Me to sing is borderline embarrassing: “all right! An R&B song!” she says, she might as well follow it up with “I like this black people music, because I am black!”

The episode ends with the black, Asian, gay and disabled students deciding that they want to go back and work with the pretty white people and that they don't want to be given “special treatment” just because they're minorities. Because apparently getting to do the things that the white kids get to do in every single episode constitutes special treatment.

This would be almost bearable except that “minorities are given special treatment” is a recurring theme in Glee. Rachel constantly uses the spectre of her “two gay dads” to threaten people with the “full force of the ACLU”, and there's an awful scene in the

by no means uncontroversial

episode Wheels where Finn gets a job in a hotel by rolling up to them in a wheelchair and saying “you have to give me a job because I'm disabled.” (I paraphrase, it's actually Rachel who does the talking and she honest-to-shit uses the word “handicapable”).

How the show can have the brass fucking bollocks to repeat the “minorities get unfair advantages” myth while at the same time devoting ninety percent of its screentime to straight, white, able-bodied characters I do not know. Still, it gives you a profound respect for the kid who plays Artie, I mean he managed to overcome the huge disadvantage of not having a physical disability to land a role in a major TV show. And think of the guts it must have taken for the producers to take such a risk – I mean by not casting a wheelchair user they were practically asking for a lawsuit. Hats off to you, Fox.

And to make matters worse, the episode ends with Mr Schuster reminding the kids that “really, they're all minorities, because they're all in Glee Club.” Because having an unpopular hobby is exactly the same as being part of a group which is subject to systematic discrimination, oh yes.

The defence that is consistently wheeled out for Glee being so ragingly tokenistic is the fact that it's doing it all knowingly to subvert the stereotypes. Ironically it's exactly this that I find so disturbing about the series. If it was just full of slightly embarrassing stereotypes I'd be more or less willing to let it slide, it'd be annoying but no more annoying than a large number of other TV shows. The problem is that Glee is aware its being offensive, but refuses to address it. Its like the producers are standing up and saying “hey, we put a black girl and a wheelchair kid in it, what more do you want?”

The Other Sort of Prejudice

The thing is, I can see where the producers are coming from. I think they're wrong, but this is very much an “I believe that you believe it” situation.

The guys behind Glee like the guys behind the Avatar movie, and the guys behind the Earthseaminiseries, really do believe that they cast every role in the series utterly fairly, without prejudice of any kind. If a black kid had been right for Finn, they would have cast a black guy. If an Asian girl had been right for Rachel, Rachel would have been Asian. It just happened not to work out that way. Funnily enough.

Except.

There's an interesting interview on the final disc of the first DVD box set in which series creator Ryan Murphy explained that he already knew Lea Michele, who plays Rachel, before casting her. He explains that the character of Rachel was very much written with Lea Michele in mind. He further explains that despite this fact she “had to audition like everybody else.”

Except no, she didn't audition like everybody else. She auditioned for a part that was specifically written for her in front of people she already knew and who I strongly suspect were all very much inclined to give her the job before she began. She might have auditioned, but she didn't audition “like everybody else”.

Just to be clear, I really like Lea Michele, I think she did really well in Glee, and the fact that the character was written with her in mind really does make her better suited to play the character. But this still gave her a specific, undeniable advantage over the other people who auditioned.

I freely confess that I don't work in casting, but I strongly suspect that if you're casting for a particular role in a show, you're going to have a decent idea of what you want a particular character to look like. And that basically means that people who don't fit your preconceptions aren't going to be as “good” in the role as other people. What seems like an entirely unbiased decision is actually one steeped in your own prejudices – even if it's something as natural and reasonable as prejudice in favour of the girl you wrote the part for in the first place.

The DVD special features were full of cute little anecdotes about the casting process. The actor who played Finn submitted a video audition in which he was drumming on cereal packets and the casting team were so blown away by his verve and passion that they ignored the fact that he didn't actually show whether or not he could sing. The actor cast as Kurt impressed the judges so much that they rewrote his character from the ground up, in order to fit him better. Again I absolutely believe that the producers believe that the extent to which they were impressed with these two actors was a pure product of their individual talent and personality, but the truth is that we react more strongly and more favourably to people we perceive as being similar to ourselves.

Put simply, while Chris Colfer (Kurt) is no doubt adorable, I really couldn't put my hand on my heart and say that he's stand-out more talented than Jenna Ushkowitz (Tina) or Amber Riley (Mercedes). What I can say is that if I was writing a TV show about a bunch of highschool kids singing showtunes, I'd have a much better idea what to do with a cute camp kid than a feisty black girl. With some of Mercedes' dialogue you can practically here the writers saying “quick, what are black people interested in? I know, R&B!”

What makes Glee difficult isn't the fact that the writers are so transparently more interested in their white, able bodied actors than the rest of the cast, it's the fact that they're so obsessed with denying it, and then patting themselves on the back about denying it. What makes it worse is that I really do believe that they believe their own apologia. Unfortunately part of what they seem to believe is that minorities are routinely given special treatment in the name of “political correctness” an that's a belief which is actually harmful (as well as being one which is flatly contradicted by their own casting decisions).

That said, I'll probably still watch the rest of the series because, y'know, showtunes.Themes:

TV & Movies

,

Minority Warrior

~

bookmark this with - facebook - delicious - digg - stumbleupon - reddit

~Comments (

go to latest

)

https://me.yahoo.com/a/EA0c88lilpj2n2eytQTnMdudrtUMV2acww--#ea8e8

at 16:21 on 2010-06-30God, Glee. Hate it. Hate, hate, hate. Have you gotten to the episode where the teacher is an abusive fuckwit and then the show focuses on his angst (not about being an abusive fuckwit) and blames his wife for making her husband act like an abusive fuckwit? Terrifying.

And yeah, the bullshit about beautiful white people "just happening" to fit the major roles . . . I don't even know what to do with that.

I wish it wasn't so rage-inducing, because I have a deep, sparkly love for Jane Lynch, and am thrilled she's in a popular sow. I just wish the show was better.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 17:09 on 2010-06-30Tragically, I've heard that later on Glee gets a lot better (or perhaps just gets a lot better on some issues). There's a really nice bit later on where Kurt's dad calls out Finn on using "faggy" as derogatory.

The show, it is problematic.

permalink

-

go to top

Viorica

at 17:29 on 2010-06-30Yeah, they spend a lot more time ealing with Kurt's issues and the discrimination he faces than the discrimination faced by Mercedes or Artie. I suspect it's because Ryan Murphy is a gay man himself, and thus is okay with

his

issues being represented, but not the issues of a black girl or a kid in a wheelchair.

Also, there are two cheerleaders (Brittany and Santana) who are hinted at being together, but Ryan Murphy says they won't be exploring that because- and I quote- "

it's not that kind of show

." That was about the point when I actually exploded with rage.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 17:34 on 2010-06-30Oh dear me.

"Oh come on, you've got the L Word! Why do you need another TV show about lesbians!"

permalink

-

go to top

Viorica

at 18:00 on 2010-06-30"It's not like we deal with gay teenagers anyw- wait."

*sigh*

One of the more frusturating aspects for me is that I have friends who are huge Glee fans, and accuse me of criticising them when I point out the flaws in the show. Being subjected to "SHUT UP YOU DON'T NOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT YOU'RE JUST EMBARASSING YOURSELF" every time I mention the show's problems is a great form of aversion therapy.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 18:06 on 2010-06-30

"It's not like we deal with gay teenagers anyw- wait."

In all seriousness I suspect that might be part of the problem.

One gay kid = teen show.

Three gay kids = GAY SHOW

One of the more frusturating aspects for me is that I have friends who are huge Glee fans, and accuse me of criticising them when I point out the flaws in the show.

It's difficult. What I find really tough with Glee is that some people genuinely seem to find it empowering (I believe Tiger Beatdown described it as "dismantling the Kyriarchy").

On the other hand, if your friends just don't like you complaining because ZOMG SHOWTUNES then they can ... well they're your friends, so they can Sit Down And Think About What They've Done.

permalink

-

go to top

Viorica

at 18:12 on 2010-06-30

One gay kid = teen show. Three gay kids = GAY SHOW

And the gay kid just happens to be one the creator can identify with. Of course.

My friends actually like it because they can identify with the characters that do get screentime (one's a gay guy) so they insist that criticism of the show is criticism of them, even after I repeatedly denied it, and accused disability/women's advocates of "looking for things to be offended by." I give up.

permalink

-

go to top

Andy G

at 18:20 on 2010-06-30Actually, the Tiger Beatdown quote was:

"I wish I could have titled this piece “How Glee is Dissolving the Kyriarchy Through Song” or “Let’s All Go Out for Equality Slushies, Our Work Here is Done!” But I can’t. Because lately, Glee has been making me squirm. Somewhere along the way, Glee became problematic. It stopped merely depicting systemic prejudice and discrimination, and started contributing to it. And I can remember exactly when it happened."

http://tigerbeatdown.com/2010/06/10/wont-stop-believin-a-gleek-turns-against-the-thing-he-loves/

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 18:23 on 2010-06-30Ah, shows what I know.

permalink

-

go to top

Jamie Johnston

at 18:29 on 2010-06-30

What I find really tough with Glee is that some people genuinely seem to find it empowering (I believe Tiger Beatdown described it as "dismantling the Kyriarchy").

Er... are you thinking of

this article

, which says:

I wish I could have titled this piece “How Glee is Dissolving the Kyriarchy Through Song” or “Let’s All Go Out for Equality Slushies, Our Work Here is Done!” But I can’t. Because lately, Glee has been making me squirm. Somewhere along the way, Glee became problematic. It stopped merely depicting systemic prejudice and discrimination, and started contributing to it.

(Admittedly the author identifies different problems from the ones you mention and seems to say that they only set in considerably later in the series.)

permalink

-

go to top

Jamie Johnston

at 18:29 on 2010-06-30D'oh! Andy types faster than I.

permalink

-

go to top

Arthur B

at 18:35 on 2010-06-30

My friends actually like it because they can identify with the characters that do get screentime (one's a gay guy) so they insist that criticism of the show is criticism of them, even after I repeatedly denied it, and accused disability/women's advocates of "looking for things to be offended by." I give up.

You know, over here at Straight White Able-Bodied Guy HQ we call that "divide and rule".

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 18:37 on 2010-06-30

D'oh! Andy types faster than I.

I shall consider myself well and truly down-smuck.

Generally though there is still positive reception of Glee out there and it does seem to polarise people. I think the issue is that it gets so much right on the one hand and so much wrong on the other.

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 19:25 on 2010-06-30I was really surprised to hear that Kurt wasn't there from the beginning because I always assumed he was sort of the author's stand in. He's gay, he obviously has a feeling for that kind of discrimination, so that's the main discrimination that gets played with.

Though I would say regarding the scene where Kurt's dad tells Finn off, the speech in itself is great (it could perhaps be considered a fantasy speech of things you wish your dad would say in that situation) but even that ep prefers to lean more in the direction of gay being a way you present yourself instead of a sexuality. Which is a fine place to start, but I am still waiting to see if they go into the other aspects of it instead of again claiming that "we're all freaks--because we're in Glee Club!" Um, no. When the bullies call Kurt a freak they mean he's gay. They pick on him because he's gay. They threaten Finn by suggesting he is gay etc.

I remember one ep where they made a joke where people in Glee were voting on something and someone voted for "other Asian"--a background character. That's a perfect example of the show's strange attitude, occasionally lampshading the problems without just not creating the problem.

Especially in eps like Wheels where not only does Finn happily reap the alleged advantages of being a minority, but Artie winds up not even solving the problem that started the ep (that he couldn't ride with the rest of the group on the bus) by sacrificing *his* immediate desires to any disabled people who might come along later. So basically the able-bodied kids complained a lot, but raised some money, and then happily went back to their original attitude of not caring at all if Artie rode the bus with them. The guy in the wheelchair. The only guy who did anything for or cared anything about access for the disabled was the guy in the wheelchair.

permalink

-

go to top

Jamie Johnston

at 22:00 on 2010-06-30Sorry, Dan, I think I must be having a stupid day because I've been turning it over in the back of my head for a couple of hours and I'm still not completely sure how the

NCIS

anecdote relates. Which means I've probably missed something important in the article as a whole. Can I impose on you (or anyone else who is having a intellect-functioning-properly day) for a 'for dummies' version?

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 22:09 on 2010-06-30Partially it doesn't.

Partially it was a holdover from an earlier version of the article that was going to focus more on the "lampshading" element of Glee.

Basically Glee gets a lot of mileage out of people saying "No, don't you see, all these stereotypes are *subversive* because *everybody knows they aren't true*". The thing about the NCIS episode is that for me it highlighted in a very simple, very minor way, the fact that "everybody knows it isn't true" doesn't stop a stereotype being offensive because in fact PEOPLE DON'T KNOW IT ISN'T TRUE.

Then the whole thing morphed and the anecdote was left stuck there like a shark in a roof.

permalink

-

go to top

Viorica

at 22:12 on 2010-06-30

You know, over here at Straight White Able-Bodied Guy HQ we call that "divide and rule".

So it IS a conspiracy!

permalink

-

go to top

http://furare.livejournal.com/

at 02:10 on 2010-07-01

Because having an unpopular hobby is exactly the same as being part of a group which is subject to systematic discrimination, oh yes.

This is probably related to the phenomenon whereby (some) geek guys think that they Understand Women, because, after all, they are discriminated against and therefore can't possibly be part of The Problem. You even get a few guys who claim that, because some things have been difficult for them, there is no systematic sexism in society. After all, they're men! And they got made to suffer for not fitting in! Women are just paranoid for seeing it as a conspiracy against them!

Getting unpopularity caused by a choice you made confused with systematic discrimination is shown quite clearly in Glee as well, when the pregnant girl tells Mercedes that now she's obviously pregnant she Understands what it's like to be black. What?

Because apparently getting to do the things that the white kids get to do in every single episode constitutes special treatment.

That's always the case, though, isn't it? If you're not seen as having the right to be treated like the pretty able-bodied white people, then being treated the same as them is presumptuous. It's special treatment in that you want to be treated *better* than Other People Like You. (Heavy sarcasm filter, needless to say.)

...accused disability/women's advocates of "looking for things to be offended by."

Oh, I hate that one. Horrible, horrible silencing tactic. But seriously, why does anyone need to *look* for things to be offended by? There's so much that is so goddamn offensive that there's no need to look further than the bookshelf in the corner. When someone says that, they're basically saying "I know better than you do what ought to offend you. I don't think this should offend you (because it doesn't offend me) and therefore you are overreacting."

As for "stereotypes aren't true", I think that the mindless spouting of stereotypes - and then defending them by saying there's probably some truth in them - is one of the most prevalent forms of discrimination in our allegedly colourblind/genderblind society. Well, at least, among the nice, "non-discriminatory" people, anyway. I think that's what Dan was saying, so maybe I should've shorted this paragraph to "what he said". But you know us women, we never shut up, right?

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 03:28 on 2010-07-01

If you're not seen as having the right to be treated like the pretty able-bodied white people, then being treated the same as them is presumptuous. It's special treatment in that you want to be treated *better* than Other People Like You. (Heavy sarcasm filter, needless to say.)

Also I think it comes down to the illusion that what the white people get to do in every ep has nothing to do with their being white. Iow, it's not that Mercedes is a backup singer because she's black, it's that Rachel has X,Y and Z about her that gives them a reason to have her on screen a lot and for us to see her story from her pov.

permalink

-

go to top

Frank

at 05:47 on 2010-07-01

Getting unpopularity caused by a choice you made confused with systematic discrimination is shown quite clearly in Glee as well, when the pregnant girl tells Mercedes that now she's obviously pregnant she Understands what it's like to be black. What?

Exactly. W. T. F.

(it could perhaps be considered a fantasy speech of things you wish your dad would say in that situation)

I also think the writer's using this opportunity to speak to those in the audience who are identifying with Finn (who has the absolute right to be pissed at Kurt and call him out on his bullshit though not in such a hateful manner) and who thus may be suffering from gaymanphobia.

The season (network?) suffers from gaymanphobia. For all the talk of Rachel's two gay dads, we never see them. Gay sexuality isn't seen. And the lesbian sexuality that is suggested, is obviously for the het male audience as Santana and Brittany use it to their advantage to seduce/trick Finn.

To be fair, there's not much if any healthy het sexuality either but it is treated as normal. Finn successfully though suggestively loses his virginity to Santana (another fail, this time with racial representation because, you know, Latina's are sexual beings, so exotic.) Will the audience ever see Kurt suggestively lose his virginity (which many will assume to be giving up his butt to a dick instead of giving his dick to a butt)? No, because gayman sex is icky.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 11:49 on 2010-07-01

This is probably related to the phenomenon whereby (some) geek guys think that they Understand Women, because, after all, they are discriminated against and therefore can't possibly be part of The Problem.

*nods*

Although for what it's worth, it's not just a geek male thing. Bad Things Happen To Men Too is depressingly common male reaction to the notion of privilege. Just look at the lovely "men's abortion rights" guys.

That's always the case, though, isn't it? If you're not seen as having the right to be treated like the pretty able-bodied white people, then being treated the same as them is presumptuous. It's special treatment in that you want to be treated *better* than Other People Like You. (Heavy sarcasm filter, needless to say.)

Sad, but I suspect largely true.

It's like when people complain that student unions have a women's officer but not a men's officer, or complain that everybody talks about violence against women, but nobody talks about violence against men (they do, they just tend to call it "crime" and there are entire branches of government devoted to dealing with it).

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 12:02 on 2010-07-01Oh, wanted to reply to this point too but somehow lost it:

Getting unpopularity caused by a choice you made confused with systematic discrimination is shown quite clearly in Glee as well, when the pregnant girl tells Mercedes that now she's obviously pregnant she Understands what it's like to be black. What?

I'm not sure that's a great example actually. Obviously playing the "I knwo what it's like to be black" card is stupid and offensive, but I think it's a bit iffy to describe Quinn's situation as being entirely down to "a choice she made". Even if we leave out the fact that she was apparently sufficiently drunk when she had sex with Puck that it raises some iffy consent issues, the way she's treated afterwards actually *is* evidence of systematic discrimination because it is, in essence, a form of slut-shaming.

Basically I'm very conscious that "well you shouldn't have got pregnant then" is something that people really do say to women, in one way or another in all sorts of situations (it's a common line taken by pro-lifers for example). There's a certain perspective from which Quinn's arc could be seen as "gets kicked out of her house for being date raped" - I don't think it's entirely fair to describe her as just having made unpopular decisions.

Of course none of that gives her the right to say she "knows what it's like to be black" - on a side note, isn't it interesting that we spend so much time in Glee hearing what it's like to be a minority (what it's like to be in a wheelchair, what it's like to be black, what it's like to be gay) but always from a third party. Mr Shu tells the kids what it's like for Artie to be in a wheelchair, Quinn tells Mercedes what it's like to be black. Kurt's dad gets a pass because he's not actually telling Finn what it's like to be gay, he's telling him what it's like to be a homophobe.

permalink

-

go to top

Arthur B

at 12:14 on 2010-07-01It's like that party game where you have the name of a mystery person stuck to your forehead and the person to your left has to describe them to you.

permalink

-

go to top

http://furare.livejournal.com/

at 15:27 on 2010-07-01Fair enough, Dan. That's the only episode of the show I've ever watched, so all I saw was "pregnant white girl tells black girl that teenage pregnancy is Just Like Being Black". I didn't know anything about the extenuating circumstances, just saw the racefail and reacted badly to it. Obviously, the way Quinn is treated is Not Okay either, but pretending that it's in any way equivalent is fail on the same scale as Guy With Unpopular Hobby pretending that this is the same as being a woman.

In my defence, that was the comparison I was making - there is nothing wrong with having sex or getting pregnant, anymore than there is anything wrong with having an unpopular hobby. But Quinn had (at least when I was unaware of possible consent issues) a lot more choice over getting pregnant than Mercedes ever did about being black. That doesn't make it *right* that she's treated the way she is, it just means that it's a different sort of unfair. Which kind of undermines her claim to Understand.

Of course, in the show, this exchange is presented as character development and a heartwarming moment between the two girls.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 15:40 on 2010-07-01

Fair enough, Dan. That's the only episode of the show I've ever watched, so all I saw was "pregnant white girl tells black girl that teenage pregnancy is Just Like Being Black".

Yeah, I can see how it would be *even more failey* out of context.

In my defence, that was the comparison I was making - there is nothing wrong with having sex or getting pregnant, anymore than there is anything wrong with having an unpopular hobby.

Oh I don't think you've got anything to defend in particular (sorry if I went off on one - I'm afraid I get a bit language police sometimes) I think it's just that I've been spending my off-hours arguing with misogynist assholes on other sites and so was a bit oversensitive. There's a depressing number of people who really do believe that if a bad thing happens to a woman because she "chooses" to have sex then it's ALL HER FAULT. Again, not saying that's you, just being a bit oversensitive.

Also doesn't change the fact that "now I know what it's like to be black" is a failburger with failsauce and a side order of fail.

Of course, in the show, this exchange is presented as character development and a heartwarming moment between the two girls.

Hey, nothing says friendship like appropriation!

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 15:42 on 2010-07-01

That's the only episode of the show I've ever watched, so all I saw was "pregnant white girl tells black girl that teenage pregnancy is Just Like Being Black". I didn't know anything about the extenuating circumstances, just saw the racefail and reacted badly to it. Obviously, the way Quinn is treated is Not Okay either, but pretending that it's in any way equivalent is fail on the same scale as Guy With Unpopular Hobby pretending that this is the same as being a woman.

Yeah, one of the biggest differences it that, of course, Quinn's condition is temporary. Sure people will probably continue to judge her for getting pregnant, but it was still another example of a line the show is very fond of, the one where the person who is in the position of social power has something happen to them or does something that suddenly makes them feel shamed. And now they "know how it feels" to be somebody who's discriminated against all the time. It's not that we can't sympathize with them as people being picked on, and there are some ways that the two situations are related, but it's not the same thing and the show really does seem to link the two a lot.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 15:46 on 2010-07-01

It's not that we can't sympathize with them as people being picked on, and there are some ways that the two situations are related, but it's not the same thing and the show really does seem to link the two a lot.

*nod*

The one redeeming quality I can think of in this particular example is that at least it's Quinn's *own* experience which acts as the catalyst for her Important Learning Experience, instead of somebody else's. Unlike say in /Wheels/, where Artie gets screwed so that the other kids can learn an Important Lessson About Disability.

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 17:33 on 2010-07-01

The one redeeming quality I can think of in this particular example is that at least it's Quinn's *own* experience which acts as the catalyst for her Important Learning Experience, instead of somebody else's. Unlike say in /Wheels/, where Artie gets screwed so that the other kids can learn an Important Lessson About Disability.

Also it's probably better that Quinn, being the cheerleader, does usually own all the privileges she has, and yet truly has had things taken away from her. Being pregnant is something other people can see and react to on sight. It's a bit deeper than suddenly being one of the kids who might get a slushy thrown at them rather than being the slushie thrower. Her dad throwing her out because she's now a slut is not only more serious but goes to the aspect of Quinn that always was a minority. In the past she just denied that.

In a way, I felt like the awkward connection of the whole thing to the experience of a black person was more something the show is always trying to do rather than something Quinn herself, based on her character, would say. She'd probably never have noticed that Mercedes was judged on her looks, much less think that she now knows how Mercedes feels.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 17:50 on 2010-07-01Thinking about it, if they really wanted to have an episode in which Quinn's pregnancy experience what it's like to be Mercedes, they'd have to have an episode in which she stood in the background, didn't sing very much, and sometimes said things like "well you can count my pregnant ass in, mm-hmm" while wagging her finger sassily.

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 18:04 on 2010-07-01

Thinking about it, if they really wanted to have an episode in which Quinn's pregnancy experience what it's like to be Mercedes, they'd have to have an episode in which she stood in the background, didn't sing very much, and sometimes said things like "well you can count my pregnant ass in, mm-hmm" while wagging her finger sassily.

Very true. She would spend a lot of time being confused at the way her interactions with people never went anywhere and all her conversations with others were about other people whose feelings she was more interested in than her own.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 18:24 on 2010-07-01

She'd probably never have noticed that Mercedes was judged on her looks, much less think that she now knows how Mercedes feels.

Sorry to keep dwelling on this but:

Also, is it framed as "being judged on her looks?" because if so ... umm ... again that's a rather nasty oversimplification of a hugely complex set of issues. I mean presumably when Quinn's father kicks her out it's not because he's worried she'll get *fat*, it's because she's a filthy dirty slutty mcslutslut. And presumably the creators realize that Mercedes' identity as a black woman has rather more to it than "is female and has dark coloured skin."

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 18:51 on 2010-07-01

Also, is it framed as "being judged on her looks?" because if so ... umm ... again that's a rather nasty oversimplification of a hugely complex set of issues. I mean presumably when Quinn's father kicks her out it's not because he's worried she'll get *fat*, it's because she's a filthy dirty slutty mcslutslut.

Sorry, no it's not. I just worded that badly because I meant she is judged on an aspect of herself that is visible to strangers. A stranger, for instane, can look at Mercedes and identify her as black and so make judgements based on just seeing her, and so can Quinn with her pregnancy showing. The way I put it it sounded like I meant "her looks" as in whether or not she was conventionally attractive--that's not what she meant.

permalink

-

go to top

Lexa

at 20:19 on 2010-07-01Oh, there are so many things I hate about this show!

First off, it really, really bugs me that they have taken the idiotic step of confusing sexuality and gender in Kurt. Yes, Kurt is gay. But the writers seem to have taken 'gay' to mean 'camp and gender-confused'. It's the easiest thing in the world to do, and frankly it disappoints me. Wouldn't it be more interesting if one of the football players was discovering he was gay? You could do amazing things with that, and explore really interesting themes - such as the fact that a lot of gay men don't conform to that stereotype. It's only making more and more people think that the stereotypical 'camp gay guy' is universal to the population.

Then there's the wheelchair thing. If you ever tried to stage 'Children Of A Lesser God' professionally with a hearing lead actress instead of a deaf one, there would be uproar. Partly, I suspect, because Equity (the actors' union) would never let them get away with it. I don't know how these things are handled in the States, but it upsets me that nobody had enough clout to solve this problem. Yes, he's good for the character, but if you can re-write for one actor, what's a few tweaks for another going to hurt?

(Oh yes, and of course having a stutter is comparable to being wheelchair-bound. It cuts you off from society in exactly the same way, didn't you know?)

Casting is a thorny issue, but I wouldn't say that colourblind casting works in every case. For instance, the writers must have had character briefs when they began auditioning.

Take the character of Quinn, for example. How different would things be if she were black? She may not have the upper-class background of the current character, she may not have been head of the chastity club (which seemed to be universally white), and there may not have been the family stigma attached to her being pregnant. All of these factors were, arguably, (and within the context of the show, with its' wonderfully divisive society) directly related to the fact that the character was white and upper-class. Even if she's still upper-class, everything changes. Suddenly the focal issues of the character change, and you have to write in the additional new environment of a mixed-race relationship between her and Finn/Mohawk Dude.

No matter how good a black actress may have been for that role, I really don't think that she would ever have been considered, because it would change a lot of things that the writers wanted for the character. And actually, maybe that's fair enough, because some characters are just that specific to their surroundings.

On the other hand, Rachel could have been black and it would have changed NOTHING. Ditto Mr Schuester.

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 20:41 on 2010-07-01

On the other hand, Rachel could have been black and it would have changed NOTHING. Ditto Mr Schuester.

With Rachel it's even more ironic because part of the joke with her dads was that they don't know which one actually fathered her biologically. She says this, then they show us a picture of her with her two dads, one of whom is black and one of whom is white. So they've already got the set up for her to be biracial, but she's not.

I personally don't have a problem with Kurt being campy just because I think it's dealing with a certain type of personality. Rather than being a person in hiding who's struggling with his sexuality he's out and proud. He himself has accepted he's gay, which can be nice. But it does give them a chance to sometimes act as if gay really is about loving show tunes and fashion and being considered girly, which fits into the whole "we're a bunch of misfits" thing they like to have for a lot of the Glee characters. The club's kind of split between the popular kids and the outcasts according to cliche high school hierarchy. Quinn, the other Cheerios, Finn and Puck are all cool people getting their first taste of doing something officially not cool. Rachel, Mercedes, Artie, non-stutter girl whose name I've just forgotten and Kurt are the nerdy-kids they wouldn't have spoken to before but now are getting to know.

permalink

-

go to top

Jamie Johnston

at 23:04 on 2010-07-01Thanks for the clarification, Dan! Yes, I see how that works.

[Ducks out before being mistaken for someone who knows something about this programme.]

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 23:30 on 2010-07-01

Take the character of Quinn, for example. How different would things be if she were black? She may not have the upper-class background of the current character

I'm pretty sure you *do* get upper-class black people (if the Fresh Prince taught me nothing else, he taught me that). (Reading ahead, I notice that you mention later that she could still have been upper class, so I don't think you're implying otherwise - I'm just a bit twitchy today).

Quinn's an interesting example in fact for exactly this reason. Making her black would have changed nothing - you *absolutely* get rich, privileged kids from black backgrounds, and making their perfect alpha-teen black would have *genuinely* challenged stereotypes. But they didn't and I suspect that, as you say, the reason they didn't is because they felt that being white was part of who she was, even though I am damned sure that there are black girls who are *exactly* like Finn.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 23:32 on 2010-07-01

Thanks for the clarification, Dan! Yes, I see how that works.

As an example, there's a running joke throughout the series that the other Asian student in Glee Club is referred to (by staff and students alike) as "other Asian".

You SEE. It's FUNNY because it's SUBVERSIVE because we KNOW IT'S RACIST and NOBODY REALLY ACTS LIKE THAT IN REAL LIFE and certainly it's in no way HARMFUL or OFFENSIVE! Because it's GLEE!

permalink

-

go to top

Viorica

at 01:39 on 2010-07-02

If you ever tried to stage 'Children Of A Lesser God' professionally with a hearing lead actress instead of a deaf one, there would be uproar.

I wouldn't be so sure. There's a production of

The Miracle Worker

running in Broadway right now with Abigail Breslin playing Helen Keller.

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 04:30 on 2010-07-02

I wouldn't be so sure. There's a production of The Miracle Worker running in Broadway right now with Abigail Breslin playing Helen Keller

Has there ever been a production of The Miracle Worker, or at least one of note, that didn't have Helen played by a hearing, sighted actress? It seems like Children of a Lesser God is traditionally cast with a deaf actress.

permalink

-

go to top

Lexa

at 10:02 on 2010-07-02But 'The Miracle Worker' closed early in its' run, and when the casting was announced there were huge complaints from the deaf and blind communities. (Also, I believe that it first opened in the 50s, when attitudes were very different to now) It's a huge betrayal to actors who are genuinely deaf, blind and wheelchair-bound when an actor who is none of these things gets a role like that.

And yep, Sarah in 'Children Of A Lesser God' is always played by a deaf actress - and with good reason. They even found a deaf actress for the movie, which is quite impressive when you think about it.

It genuinely upsets me that the actor playing Artie can walk. It's like they're saying "You know what, nobody in a wheelchair can act." Your agent can't find a wheelchair-bound actor? Find one. Hold open auditions, cast a complete newcomer. It's much easier to do that on television than in theatre.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 10:17 on 2010-07-02Sorry to be the language police again but if we're going to take a stand against ableism can we avoid using the term "wheelchair-bound" because it

genuinely upsets people

.

I probably wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't been reading that very blog yesterday evening.

permalink

-

go to top

Wardog

at 10:58 on 2010-07-02Wow, this is a minefield. I'm scared of opening my mouth....

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 15:05 on 2010-07-02

But 'The Miracle Worker' closed early in its' run, and when the casting was announced there were huge complaints from the deaf and blind communities. (Also, I believe that it first opened in the 50s, when attitudes were very different to now)

Thanks for that info--I had no idea and I was genuinely wondering about it. Because yes, the original was in the 50s where the idea of hiring a deaf or blind young actress (much less a deaf and blind young actress) would never even have been considered. I remember when Patty Duke, the original Helen, later made a TV movie version where she played Annie Sullivan to Melissa Gilbert's Helen!

So I didn't know if there was some reason that play was not looked at the way CoaLG was, where you assume the part will be played by a deaf actress.

Now I'd really like to see MW with a deaf and blind actress. It would be a totally different performance, I'd imagine. Helen would probably relate to the world far more realistically because the actress would naturally navigate the world with the same senses. Ironically, I'll bet to a lot of people she would appear more able-bodied because of it. She'd be played less as a seeing/hearing person who's been deprived of those senses and more like an individual who uses senses other than seeing and hearing.

permalink

-

go to top

Viorica

at 15:42 on 2010-07-02

Hold open auditions, cast a complete newcomer.

That's actually the argument I keep hearing- that they

did

hold open auditions, and Kevin McHale just happened to be the best actor for the role. Don't know if I believe it, though.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 23:23 on 2010-07-02

That's actually the argument I keep hearing- that they did hold open auditions, and Kevin McHale just happened to be the best actor for the role. Don't know if I believe it, though.

I believe it, it's just that I believe their criteria for "best actor" were intrinsically, well, faily.

There's a lot of talk in the DVD special features about how you're looking for the "triple threat" - somebody who can act, sing and dance. Given that later on in the series there's a sequence in which Artie does, in fact, dance in a dream sequence - revealing that Kevin McHale is, in fact, a pretty damned good dancer, it seems depressingly plausible that his ability do dance was part of what landed him the role.

This role, of course, being the role of a wheelchair user whose lifetime dream of being a dancer cannot be fulfilled *because he is a wheelchair user*.

It seems nobody thought that maybe the ability to dance *in a wheelchair* might be a better quality to look for in an actor than the ability to dance *when not in a wheelchair*.

permalink

-

go to top

Viorica

at 00:06 on 2010-07-03Yeah, that's what my friend tried to convince me of- that if they hadn't cast Kevin McHale, they couldn't have done the Safety Dance scene, so clearly he was a better choice than an actor who was actually in a wheelchair. The problem with this is twofold: one, it is entirely possible to dance while in a wheelchair, and two, having your disabled character constantly fantasize about not being disabled is juuuuust a bit problematic. It'd be like having Kurt fantasize about being straight. "Oh, if only I wasn't a minority!"

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 00:54 on 2010-07-03

I believe it, it's just that I believe their criteria for "best actor" were intrinsically, well, faily.

And how many people in wheelchairs would bother showing up at an open call, really? I mean, it seems like asking a bit much to expect differently abled actors to assume they're being considered at an open call.

Yeah, that's what my friend tried to convince me of- that if they hadn't cast Kevin McHale, they couldn't have done the Safety Dance scene, so clearly he was a better choice than an actor who was actually in a wheelchair.

It does underline that we're talking about a disabled person as defined by an able-bodied person, doesn't it? If they think it's important that the actor be able to convincingly dance like a person with the use of his legs, if only for dream sequences but not important that he be able to convincingly use a wheelchair like a person who doesn't regularly use his legs. He can't dance in a wheelchair the way the character should be able to do, probably doesn't even use a wheelchair as well as a regular user would.

But they either don't see those problems or assume people will suspend disbelief for them. However when it comes to a fantasy dance sequence they need it to be the actor dancing? Even though the whole fantasy sequence frame would give you plenty of freedom to be as stylized as possible. You could probably even be more creative with it. It's not like Hollywood hasn't done this in many ways over the years when they cast a non-dancer in a dancing role.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 12:00 on 2010-07-03

And how many people in wheelchairs would bother showing up at an open call, really? I mean, it seems like asking a bit much to expect differently abled actors to assume they're being considered at an open call.

But that's *their* fault for being *prejudiced* and assuming that *all able bodied people are ablists*. And we shouldn't support *prejudice*.

It does underline that we're talking about a disabled person as defined by an able-bodied person, doesn't it?

It really does. I can't believe that people *actually* cite the (arguably quite offensive) dream sequence in which Artie imagines what it would be like to be a dancer as a *good and valid* reason that he "had" to be played by an able-bodied actor.

"Hey people with disabilities: we can actually represent what it is like to BE YOU better than YOU CAN"

permalink

-

go to top

Lexa

at 15:17 on 2010-07-03There are hundreds of acting calls out there where they say something like: "Actor wanted. Must be male, mid-late 30s, minority ethnic background." Or words to that effect. If you need someone black for a role, that's what you do. If they had put out one stating that they needed a wheelchair user, then it would have been no different. Sometimes you need an actor to look a certain way, and there's no problem with specifying that - asking for someone in a wheelchair is just the same.

And I say again: if they can re-write one role for one actor and change it completely (Kurt), would it have been so difficult for them to change one character slightly so that a real wheelchair-user could have done it? They can't say 'he wasn't right for the role' for one guy, and then do a shedload of re-writing for another.

permalink

-

go to top

Shim

at 08:46 on 2010-07-04

"Actor wanted. Must be male, mid-late 30s, minority ethnic background."

That must be awkward if everyone who turns up is the wrong minority ethnic background.

"I'm sorry, Mr... Spock, was it? We just don't see you as Othello."

permalink

-

go to top

Jamie Johnston

at 11:17 on 2010-07-04"But that is illogical:

Captain Picard

has played the part, and we are of similar appearance. Is it becos I iz from TOS?"

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 12:47 on 2010-07-04

And I say again: if they can re-write one role for one actor and change it completely (Kurt), would it have been so difficult for them to change one character slightly so that a real wheelchair-user could have done it?

I don't think you'll get any disagreement here. We're not saying "this is why they did it, and it's legitimate" we're (or at least I'm) saying "this is probably why they did it, and it's fucking offensive".

People get so defensive about it because what we're dealing with here (like the guy in that infuriating Times article Rami just linked to) is *internalized* prejudice. The producers cast Kevin McHale because he was "best" for the role according to their preconceptions about what a "good" actor in musical theatre should be like. Funnily enough, this wound up being somebody white, male, and able-bodied.

permalink

-

go to top

https://me.yahoo.com/a/weG8lOsgwf6qv3.5HfEtaiu7gZr1mw--#9e4da

at 00:48 on 2010-07-06As a person with disabilities who has

written rather extensively about Glee

(I wrote the post at Bitch discussed in Daniel's original post), I'd like to specifically rebut the claims made about the dream sequence (although this whole conversation has been very interesting).

I see the argument that Artie had to be played by a nondisabled actor to make that sequence possible all the time, by people who are apparently not aware that what wheelchair users can dance. Had they used an actual wheelchair user in that role, the dance sequence could have involved Artie going to dance camp and learning wheelchair dance, and they could have choreographed a superb dance sequence. Instead, they cast themselves into a corner by using a nondisabled actor.

Glee for some reason seems to be under the impression that people can't dance in wheelchairs. They claimed to have invented wheelchair choreography with 'Wheels' despite ample evidence to the contrary; seriously, search YouTube for 'wheelchair dancing,' and I note that they had to use a stuntman for most of Artie's moves in that episode, suggesting some awareness of the fact that there are actually wheelchair athletes that can do things that nondisabled people who are unfamiliar with a chair cannot do.

Pretty much all of the statements made about McHale's casting smell like rotten fish to me. They 'needed an actor who can sing and dance'? Well, Kevin McHale may be able to sing, but he certainly can't dance in a wheelchair, and there are plenty of wheelchair users who are accomplished singers and dancers who would have been a better fit for that role.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 11:28 on 2010-07-06Hiya, welcome to Ferretbrain.

The whole dream sequence thing is just wrong on every level really isn't it?

It seems like the producers genuinely did believe the fact that Kevin McHale *isn't* a wheelchair user somehow made him uniquely qualified to play one.

permalink

-

go to top

Jamie Johnston

at 19:54 on 2010-07-06Wow, I know we've had actual known writers commenting on Ferretbrain once or twice before but this is the first time it's someone I've read. Er, hello! [Star-struck.]

I'm amazed to hear they had the gumption to claim to have invented wheelchair choreography. That claim certainly wouldn't have convinced anyone in the UK, where

this wheelchair dance

was all over our televisions many times a day from 2002 to 2006 as a BBC 'ident'.*

* (I don't know whether 'ident' is a term anyone but the BBC uses. It's the little clips a TV channel shows in between programmes or during ad breaks to remind you what channel you're watching.)

permalink

-

go to top

Melissa G.

at 01:10 on 2010-07-07I would just like to mention that someone I went to college with (who became paralyzed during his sophomore year due to a spinal injury) was recently on Glee. And he wrote a really interesting

blogpost/article

about his experience with the show. Just thought you all would be interested.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 10:28 on 2010-07-07Obviously it's great that your friend's landed a part in the series, but I'm a bit uncomfortable with his complaining about people criticizing the show. He's entitled to his opinion of course, but so are other people.

I have absolutely no doubt that the cast, crew and writers of /Glee/ are not *consciously* ableist. I have no doubt that they will be very nice to your friend, but it *is* legitimate to criticize them for casting an able-bodied actor as Artie, just as it would be legitimate to criticize them for having a white girl black up to play Mercedes.

permalink

-

go to top

Melissa G.

at 17:51 on 2010-07-07@Dan

Coming from a background where I've been on both sides of the casting table (I'm an actor and I've helped cast things as well), I can't really agree completely with how heated everyone is about Artie's casting. Yes, it would have been great if they found an actor in a wheelchair to play Artie, but for me, as long as equal consideration was given to both abled and disabled actors, I really can't get too angry about it.

Of course, I realize that my opinion comes with privilege and that, of course, as an able-bodied person, I don't have much right to say anything either way. The reason I linked Zach's article was because I thought there was more meaning to hearing his opinion than mine. But I'm certainly not going to say that anyone is wrong for being upset. It's just not something I personally agree with. And to me, the fact that Zach got a part on the show (even though he was competing against able-bodied actors during the casting session) must count for something?

As far as the dream sequence goes, I highly doubt the show had any idea they would even do that until about two weeks before the episode was shot, and from what I know of TV, it's likely that they just said, "Oh, hey, since Kevin can walk in real life, why don't we do a dream sequence where we see him dance?" Had he actually been a wheelchair-using actor, they obviously wouldn't have done the scene or would have done it a different way. But I might be misunderstanding why exactly people are angry about it.

To be honest though, I have a feeling this is an agree to disagree type of situation.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 00:47 on 2010-07-08

But I might be misunderstanding why exactly people are angry about it.

I'm not really qualified to speak on behalf of People With Disabilities, but if I had to explain why I *think* people are so upset about it, it would be something like this (this may get long).

One way to view disability is that people with disabilities are just people who can't do some things that other people can do. If you follow this definition then casting able-bodied actors in disabled roles is sort of like casting bilingual people in non-bilingual roles: a complete non-issue.

The other way to view disability (as I understand it) is like race or gender: a part of somebody's identity which has physical manifestations. If you follow this definition casting an able-bodied actor in a disabled role is exactly as bad as having black roles played by white actors in blackface.

By the first definition, discrimination against people with disabilities is effectively a non-issue. Disabled people are by definition less able than nondisabled people, and if your disability prevents you from doing something well ... that's why they call it a disability. Many people (including, I suspect, many people with disabilities) are completely okay with the first definition and that is not something I feel in a position to judge. By this definition providing wheelchair access to a public building is effectively a courtesy you provide to the less fortunate.

For many people, however, it is important to recognize that people with disabilities are a social group that can be excluded by social mechanisms. While people with disabilities may do things differently to able-bodied people, they do actually do all of the same things. To these people *failing* to provide wheelchair access to a building is discrimination just as much as it would be to put a sign in the window saying "no blacks no Irish".

The reason people are so upset by the whole "wheelchair users can't dance" theme which runs through Glee is that it reinforces the notion that exclusion is a natural part of what it means to have a disability. To people who subscribe to the second model of disability "wheelchair users can't dance" is exactly as offensive a statement as "gay people can't have children" or "women can't do science".

As you say, it's an agree to disagree situation, I just thought I'd try (as best I can) to explain what I think people are disagreeing about.

permalink

-

go to top

Melissa G.

at 05:34 on 2010-07-08

To people who subscribe to the second model of disability "wheelchair users can't dance" is exactly as offensive a statement as "gay people can't have children" or "women can't do science".

Okay, I see. That clears it up. And yes, wheelchair users *can* dance and it would be nice to see them let Artie do that and achieve his dream.

If you follow this definition casting an able-bodied actor in a disabled role is exactly as bad as having black roles played by white actors in blackface.

This is where it gets tricky for me. And I'm not sure I can explain this without sounding horribly insensitive, but I'll give it a go.

For me, saying that only a wheelchair using actor should play a wheelchair using character is an idea that can be taken to rather dangerous place. If you start saying that people can only play roles that they actually are, you're saying that only straight actors can play straight roles or only Jewish actors can play Jewish characters. Anyone with the right look and skills should be considered for any role. The whole point of acting is to become something or someone that you're not. And to take that to another level, I work with a disabled actor in my workshop classes, and I know for a fact that he wants to be considered for parts that are *not* written to be disabled. If we want casting directors to consider him for non-disabled parts, I feel like we need to extend that to "consider everyone who could play this character for the part". And from there, I trust that the casting people will actually pick the person who is most right for the role. And having met many casting directors, trust me, they're really very good at it.

Again, I know people will disagree with me, and they have every right to. I just wanted to add something from an acting viewpoint as well. (Please don't bite my head off....)

permalink

-

go to top

Shim

at 11:37 on 2010-07-08(warning, long post)

For me, saying that only a wheelchair using actor should play a wheelchair using character is an idea that can be taken to rather dangerous place. If you start saying that people can only play roles that they actually are, you're saying that only straight actors can play straight roles or only Jewish actors can play Jewish characters. Anyone with the right look and skills should be considered for any role. The whole point of acting is to become something or someone that you're not.

I can see where you're coming from and agree to some extent, but I think there's a couple of issues involved here.

For one thing, there are several types of characteristic that might affect casting.

- There are characteristics that almost inevitably affect the character: age, gender, ethnic group, height, body type, certain physical disabilities. The actor's traits carry across to the character unless massive effort goes into disguising them.

- There are characteristics that genuinely limit what the actor can do, including some physical and mental disabilities, but also ability (singing, multilinguism, etc.). This means that actor can't do specific things, but doesn't mean the character has to be

portrayed

in that way: you can avoid showing those activities, or use stunt doubles and voice doubles.

- There are "hidden" traits that don't necessarily affect the actor's range of ability or come across to the character. These include sexuality, regional origin, social class, and some mental conditions.

The first category tend to restrict what roles people can do because many roles are designated for specific types of person. This is especially the case with historical figures, but also applies to stories in particular settings and particular types of character, or to combinations of characters. Dame Judy Dench cannot credibly play Harry Potter. Arnold Schwarzenegger makes an unconvincing Gandhi. Children are often expected to be the same ethnic group as their parents. A cast of white kids just don't fit in a Chinese epic set in the Qing Dynasty. A very short cast is not a realistic basketball team, and a very fat cast is not a realistic national football team. Theatre tends to be far more generous with this sort of casting than film and TV. Taking the semi-realism of film & TV as the standard, then yes, I'd argue that Jewish actors (or at least, actors who look Jewish*) should play the characters.

The second category makes it difficult for actors to play particular roles. Stephen Hawking doesn't match up to Arnie as Conan and the work required to allow him to play the part would be astronomical (how appropriate). Similarly, if someone has an unshakeable heavy Russian accent, they just may not be suitable as Queen Elizabeth. Deafblind actors may struggle in a Jackie Chan film. However, as I said, you might be able to adapt the part or avoid or double certain activities to make them a viable choice, and of course the severity of these restrictions varies. In some circumstances, though, it seems like a reasonable decision to say a person is unsuitable.

The third category really shouldn't enter into the casting process. They might affect an actor's ability to get into character, but for a good actor, shouldn't define whether or not they can do the part. There's no reason why a straight part has to be played by a straight actor.

However: there is also the issue of equal opportunities, or more specifically fair opportunities.

While many roles could be played by anyone, they are often effectively restricted. Minority actor X might be a great fit for the grandfather role, but if the rest of the family has been cast as a different ethnic group, the directors simply can't see a way to fit X in. Or it would require a significant rewrite, whereas actor Y can slot straight in there. If the plot requires the heroine to have life-changing experiences while running marathons, an actress who can't walk or run is a big obstacle. If it's a full-blown kung fu film, a complete ignorance of kung fu is a problem.

Other roles require specific actor traits, so your Aboriginal family need to look more or less Aboriginal, Henry VIII needs to be a Caucasian bloke, and your basketball players need to be tall.

A third type of role needs someone who can portray a particular type of character, without necessarily needing that trait themselves. This ties in with the third category: traits like personality, nationality, class, education, magical powers, emotions, illness and some disabilities can be portrayed by actors without those traits.

The thing is that while the second type of roles exclude majority actors who don't fit the bill, both the first and second types tend to exclude minorities. This means a far smaller range of opportunities is open to them, which in itself reinforces the problem because it's harder to build up a reputation, experience and contacts. That being the case, I'd say it's even more important to consider them carefully for minority-specific roles, and to be

less

open to rewrites and other adaptive measures for the sake of casting non-minority actors.

Wheelchair users are actually a slightly unusual case, because you don't need to be a wheelchair user to act the part. This puts them at an even greater disadvantage than many other disabilities, because not only are they excluded from many roles not written for wheelchair users; they are also competing with able-bodied actors (who have had more opportunity to get experience and recognition) for roles as wheelchair-using characters. Thus, open casting for wheelchair users reinforces the discrimination. Hence the blackface comparison.

Obviously that doesn't mean they shouldn't be considered for non-chair-using roles, any more than all-women MP shortlists mean women shouldn't apply for other constituencies. It's not really about making casting completely open; it's about preventing passive disadvantage to minorities from the passive advantage and sheer numbers of the majority.

*I appreciate this is getting into the situation where people are concerned by ethnic minority A actors taking roles as ethnic minority B characters. I don't want to discuss that right now, I was just referring to getting a convincing cast.

permalink

-

go to top

Dan H

at 12:12 on 2010-07-08

Anyone with the right look and skills should be considered for any role.

I think this is the crux of the issue (and again this might get a bit long).

For many years, to a white audience, a man in blackface had the right "look" to play a black man on stage or on film. Even after people came to realize that this was not acceptable, the film and television industry carried on doing the

exact same thing

with Asian characters because, to a white audience as long as somebody has their eyes taped back they look convincingly Asian (scanning down the wikipedia article, people still do this today). Of course to a lot of Asian people this is fantastically offensive.

To a lot of disabled people, Kevin McHale absolutely does *not* have the "right look and skills" to be considered for the role of Artie. For a start he can't dance in a wheelchair which for somebody in a show which is all about singing and dancing is a bit of a flaw. Not only that, but (I am given to understand) many people find the way McHale handles a wheelchair awkward, uncomfortable, and unconvincing. To people who actually use wheelchairs, McHale does not do a convincing job of portraying somebody who spends a large proportion of every day in one.

None of these things are immediately obvious to an able-bodied audience (or, I suspect, to able-bodied casting directors) because we define disability by inability, and think that being a wheelchair-user means "not being able to walk" instead of "being able to use a wheelchair". The reason many people find "crip drag" offensive is because they feel it should not be up to able-bodied people to decide what disabled people are supposed to look like.

I absolutely believe that Kevin McHale was chosen because he had the right look and skills to play Artie, but I also believe that what people considered to be the "right look and skills" to play Artie was based on quite a lot of harmful misconceptions about disability.

Put it this way. Look at the following picture

of the cast

. Perhaps I'm just being guided by hindsight but just looking at those pictures (which are all head-and-shoulder shots) you know *instantly* which of those characters is "wheelchair kid" - it's the pale gawky looking one because that's what able-bodied people think disabled people look like. It's even more apparent in the

DVD Cover

where he is actually pulling the "biting your own ear" face I describe in the article.

If I was a casting director, Kevin McHale is exactly the person I would cast as wheelchair kid. He looks exactly how I expect disabled people to look (pale, unhealthy, and uncomfortable) and his awkwardness in a wheelchair wouldn't even register with me, because I *expect* disabled people to move awkwardly because, well, they're disabled.

And to take that to another level, I work with a disabled actor in my workshop classes, and I know for a fact that he wants to be considered for parts that are *not* written to be disabled. If we want casting directors to consider him for non-disabled parts, I feel like we need to extend that to "consider everyone who could play this character for the part".

I think you're in danger of falling into the "reverse prejudice" trap here.

There is a big difference between disabled actors wanting to be considered for roles that are not specifically written as disabled, and non-disabled actors wanting to be considered for roles that are. Not least of those differences is the fact that while disabled actors are routinely *not* considered for roles that aren't specifically written for them, they have to be especially protective of those that are.

To come back to the race example, it's the difference between a black actor wanting to be considered for the role of Dr Who and a white actor wanting to be considered for the role of Martin Luther King Jr. One involves taking a character who habitually (and for no especially good reason) is cast as white and asking for the opportunity for equal treatment. The other involves asking people to accept that one of the most famous and significant figures in the civil rights movement can be adequately represented by a white guy.

There is a big, big difference between actors with disabilities, or actors of colour, or female actors, asking to be considered for parts in which race, disability, and gender play no significant role, and white, able-bodied male actors asking to take roles which *are* specifically written as disabled, non-white, or female. (I should add that gender isn't a great example here, because regendering roles is slightly different to merely whitewashing them).

What's offensive about blackface, and about yellowface, and about crip drag, is the notion that "white and able-bodied" is some kind of master template from which everything else can be derived. A black man is not just a white man with dirty skin. An Asian person is not just a white person with their eyes pulled back. A disabled person is not just an able-bodied person sitting down.

Should every actor who *can* play a role be considered for that role? Absolutely. But for many people an able bodied actor *can not* play the role of a wheelchair user. For many people Kevin McHale *is not* convincing as Artie, because Artie is supposed to be a wheelchair user and Kevin McHale *obviously* isn't.

And having met many casting directors, trust me, they're really very good at it.

I'm sure they are, but that does not mean they are without prejudice, or do not have privilege.

Kevin McHale was an excellent choice for Artie in the sense that he looks exactly the way the average, able-bodied audience member expects a wheelchair user to look. He was also an excellent choice for a character whose entire arc seems to be about how having a disability means having a less complete life. Insofar as Artie's function as a character is to be tragic and sympathetic, he is well cast.

The problem a lot of people seem to have with Kevin McHale is not that he did not fit the character per se, but that the character itself is a harmful jumble of stereotypes.

I hope this doesn't come across as biting your head off, just still trying to explain why I think the criticisms of McHale are legitimate.

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 15:52 on 2010-07-08

I absolutely believe that Kevin McHale was chosen because he had the right look and skills to play Artie, but I also believe that what people considered to be the "right look and skills" to play Artie was based on quite a lot of harmful misconceptions about disability.

Just wanted to say I thought this whole post summed up the issues really well, at least the way I see them at play. If we lived in a world where the majority of people used wheelchairs, McHale's awkwardness at handling one would probably be a no-brainer. That kind of unconscious thinking happens a lot with the white able-bodied template. Like as I often said w/regard to the Avatar casting, nobody ever considered making the LOTR cast there were no discussions about Middle Earth not really being Europe and therefore the entire Fellowship should be Asian--on the contrary both there and Harry Potter it was agreed right away that convincingly white and British was the starting point for everyone.

Basically, I think we're trying to work towards a comfortable balance between blind casting where the audience is expected to accept an actor whose race isn't supposed to be taken literally and specific casting where race is an issue.

I do remember once someone on lj making a horribly misguided (imo) post where she seemed to literally be arguing that whatever specific background an actor had, that was what the character had. She was arguing that it was stupid for people to talk about the Jimmy Smits character on The West Wing being the first Latino US president when Bartlett was a Latino president--because Martin Sheen is. Even though Bartlett's ethnicity was a stated part of his character. *That* I think was definitely a case of the slippery slope where things are getting silly.

Also, we shouldn't forget that the show does have an actual disabled cast member in a recurring role--the Cheerio who has Down Syndrome. Perhaps Life Goes On changed things when it came to that particular condition, or maybe it's that it's got such a distinctive physical look (distinctive enough that it's almost like a wheelchair only it's not a prop or a costume), or again maybe it's that people with Down Syndrome have proven themselves enough as a group as actors, but I would have been surprised if they'd cast that role with a person who didn't have Down Syndrome.

permalink

-

go to top

Sister Magpie

at 15:58 on 2010-07-08Also while I'm blabbing on, let me go off on a tangent. But I wonder if another unconcious prejudice that can come into play is a discomfort with the disabled. Of course I can't say this was at all a factor in the Glee casting. But I think there are situations where able-bodied people are just made a little less comfortable or a little more nervous when dealing with someone who has different limitations. So that could probably also weigh in favor of preferring the able-bodied actor. Obviously not all the time, as the actor who wrote the blog is disabled and got a part--though even there if this kind of thing was an unconscious factor people would probably feel a lot more confident hiring someone for one episode than as a series regular.

Again, I don't want to make it seem like I'm accusing the Glee cast of doing this, especially not consciously. But it seems like from things I've read disabled people say, this is something they deal with.

permalink

-

go to top

Melissa G.

at 17:24 on 2010-07-08I can't really argue with anything anyone is saying. And it makes more sense to me to call the character of Artie offensive or insulting than to harp on about the casting choice, in my opinion, but that's getting into semantics.

I still can't completely agree with it, but that may be because I Just Don't Get It, which I'm willing to accept and admit that maybe my opinion is a little less significant given my privilege.

But I do want to say that I appreciate everyone responding to me in a calm, non-defensive manner so we could have an actual conversation about what I think is a complicated issue. But I'm not sure I particularly have anything more insightful to say about it at this point. (Also, watch Zach's episode; he did a good job!! ^_^)

permalink

-

go to top

Jamie Johnston

at 19:09 on 2010-07-08Yeah, it's been a really interesting discussion. And I think we'd probably all agree that casting is only part of the problem, and not the biggest part. (It's certainly only one of many complaints in Dan's original article.) Even if casting were never affected by prejudice in any way (which I don't think anyone here suggests), we'd still be left with far too many series that are written to either ignore the diversity of people and experiences in the world or deal with that diversity using token characters and cheap stereotypes.

And we'd also probably all agree that the workings of prejudice are much more easily seen over the broad sweep than when looking at any single creative decision. Casting Kevin McHale as a wheelchair-using character would be much less problematic than it is (however much that may be) if the show had lots of actors with disabilities, or if it didn't but there were plenty of other TV series that did, or even if there weren't that many actors with disabilities on our screens but there were enough suitable parts being written to encourage more young people with disabilities to become actors.

permalink

-

go to top

Shim

at 08:42 on 2010-07-09It's always difficult when you're talking about generalities but focusing on a specific example. Quoting Dan in a vaguely web-incestuous way:

"I don't think you can look at any single work of fiction and say "that character, right there, should have been black".

permalink

-

go to top

Jamie Johnston

at 12:41 on 2010-08-17The casting issue, in

Glee

and more generally, on

This ain't livin'

from a few days ago.

permalink

-

go to top

Arthur B

at 12:42 on 2010-08-17A little happy news: I just started watching

Breaking Bad

, which includes a character with cerebral palsy played by an actor who actually has cerebral palsy. At last.

permalink

-

go to top

http://someobsessive.livejournal.com/

at 10:06 on 2010-08-20I just wanted to let you know that I have included several quotes from your articles on my new tumblr:

http://wholesomeobsessive.tumblr.com/

if you would like to check it out.

Sister Magpie quotes are also there.

Thank you for your articles, and for directing me over to deathtocapslock. I am being very well entertained this summer.

:-)

permalink

-

go to top

Robinson L

at 15:00 on 2010-12-21Still not seen

Glee

, and still probably never will, but do have a few thoughts. One of them being that Noah Antwiler of The Spoony Experiment

also took exception to The Immortals

. In detail.

And while I haven't see the show, ptolemaeus watched the first season with our cousin last year, and she had the same problems with

Throwdown

(the Sue-Sylvester-tries-divide-and-conquer-tactics episode) you bring up. Color me unsurprised.

Also, did I dream up the part where somebody (and I could've sworn it was Dan), said something about Sue Sylvester later being depicted as more sympathetic, and that this actually makes the show's problems *worse* because—if I remember the argument correctly—now it's a likable person saying and thinking all those nasty things? That struck me as a bit odd, because while I can sort of see the logic behind it, I've always viewed treating nasty characters sympathetically and not just saying “ehn, they're just evil,” as a good thing. I didn't dream all that up, did I?

Dan: Partially it was a holdover from an earlier version of the article that was going to focus more on the "lampshading" element of Glee.

Was that version also going to go more into what exactly the “Trouble With Deconstruction” is? From all I've heard, it sounds more like the trouble is that the show lampshades it's own stereotypes without really questioning or subverting (deconstructing) them.

permalink

-

go to top

https://profiles.google.com/117083096049946525193

at 02:46 on 2013-07-07Oh, this has only gotten far worse as the show has hit it's fourth season.

First, Brittany and Santana did become a couple and broke up. Brittany, being bisexual, decided to date Sam (a season 2 character), but was hesitant because the lesbian blogging community was going to hurt him. I wish I was making this up. AfterEllen had a riot on that. Sorry we're upset that our representation isn't on screen anymore. And as a lesbian myself, I do have to say, it was really frustrating how for the rest of the series, except maybe two times, they completely forgot those two dated.

The biggest fail though is the transgender (mtf) black woman named Unique. First of all, it took me a while to figure out whether she was supposed to be transgender or a drag queen (because she talks in the third person regularly, and talks about Unique like a persona, not as herself). Second, SO MANY TIMES in the show, people are calling Unique Unique/Wade (the male name). Now, I know a million idiots across America are going to think this is acceptable behavior. And finally, they made her a catfish. The transgender as deceptive/predatory is a pretty common trope, and I think a damaging one, for everyone involved.

And the final Glee minority fail. Unique is also a big girl, and is basically the replacement for Mercedes. Brittany literally calls Unique Mercedes, SEVERAL TIMES. Uuuuugh. . .

permalink

-

go to top

Fishing in the Mud

at 23:41 on 2013-07-07Ryan Murphy can totally make fun of lesbians and transgender people because he's gay. Isn't it great?

Yeah, no. What a fucking worthless hack.

#Ferretbrain #Dan H #Minority Warrior #Glee

[austenpoppy]

When fanfiction begins to be worrying

Warning : Ron-lovers, if you read this it is at your own peril. I am already suffering from long-lasting damage. Vivi, don't read. Really. Don't. Trust me.

We won't even talk about incest and other criminal and sickening fanfictions, which are mostly rejected by the fandom with the utmost disgust - fortunately.

No, no, what I'm going to talk about is admired by a - sadly - large part of the fandom. I was just looking for a cool fanfiction about Ron during my break when I found this, on the first page : "101 ways to kill Ron Weasley."

I know, I shouldn't have clicked on the link, but I couldn't help myself. I had to know.

This is the Author's note :

"This story is inspired by Crys' 1001 Deaths of Lord Voldemort on

For many of us, we hate one character in canon more than any other. No, not Lord Voldemort. I am, of course, talking about Ron Weasley.

Ron is lazy, stupid, annoying, and, in my opinion, mentally retarded.

Now, many in the fanfiction community hate Ginny much more than Ron; however, I find that to be more based upon their experiences with fanfiction than Ginny's actual roll in canon. Let's all be honest, outside of CoS and a cameo in OoTP, Ginny has very few lines and almost no involvement in the plot while Ron plays the role of a giant douchebag throughout the books.

This story, which I hope people will enjoy, is my way of killing off the dumbass in as many colorful ways as possible.

In case you can't tell, expect major Ron!Bashing."

...

I should have stopped as soon as I read this. I didn't, pushed by a morbid curiosity : I wanted to know how far people were ready to go. Useless to say that I bitterly regret it.

First, notice here that Voldemort and Ron are the only characters that I know of who have entire fanfics dedicated to kill them.

Voldemort and Ron are put on the same level. A teenager, the best friend of the hero and a hero himself, is compared to a psychopath and a murderer.

Moreover, I have to underline that the author judges Ron as "mentally retarded". I find it worrying. Just because a teenager have not the same grades as the best student in his year, just because he does not display the same way of thinking as his clever best friend does not mean he is stupid. Far from that.

That is a judgement on intelligence that I think is horrible. You have to know that intelligence, despite what tests such as IQ's claim, can not be really measured. It depends on so many factors. The results of IQ tests depend themselves on so many factors.

Furthermore, having real problems to understand things should be seen as a disability, a handicap and not an insult. It is a very difficult situation to deal with.

Also notice that the intellect is one the major criteria differencing the characters for those people. Intellect is practically above everything else.

I read the fanfiction, constituted of two chapters and multiple drabbles.

First reaction :

First one : Ron dies from eating too much. He chokes on his food.

Second one : In first year, wanting to prove a point to Hermione, Ron willingly mispronunces a spell and conjures a buffalo which crushes him

Third one : In Deathly Hallows, Ron takes the locket with him when he leaves. Harry and Hermione try to stop him and splinch him (he is split in two), but they don't recover the Horcrux. Last sentence : "Even in death, Ron Weasley found a way to be a pain in the ass."

Fourth one : Ron, charged by Harry to give Hedwig her treats, eats them in front of her. Hedwig, with the help of thousands other owls, avenges herself by attacking and killing Ron. Reminding of "The birds" by Hitchcock.

Fifth one : Ron, jealous, accuses Hermione of loving Harry and calls her "a Mudblood". She kills him. Harry and her hide Ron's body before they have sex. Petty remark about the length of Harry and Ron's manhoods. Note of the "author" explaining that it was a summary of another fic.

Sixth one : the Trio enters Bellatrix's vault. Ron is immediately fascinated by the amount of money and begins to steal it despite his friends' warnings. He burts into flames and jinxes his friends. Particularly petty sentence : "He never knew, or cared, that his greed had doomed them as well."

Seventh one : Ron speaks proudly about the unbreakable vow he made when he was five. Hermione asks him what it was about, he says he had sworn he would never say he wasn't a jobbernowl, he dies. Worst thing : use of a real passage of the book.

Eighth one : Ron dies on the chess set. His sacrifice is presented as stupid because it 'had to be another way.'

Nine : Harry uses Sectumsempra on Ron while he is sleeping. Ron dies. Harry transforms his corpse into a sock and burns it.

Last one : after Ron is made prefect, Hermione refuses to have him as a partner, jinxes him and kills him "for the greater good." Particularly nasty sentences : "Harry looked at the badge and fought the urge to go downstairs and ask McGonagall and Dumbledore if they were high when they selected the male Gryffindor prefect this year." / "'Sure', Ron said, completely shocked. 'I was positive you would get it, Harry.' 'You and the rest of the world,' Harry thought darkly." / "I can already see Ron not taking his duties seriously and flaunting the privileges that prefects normally deserve."

I won't comment all of them, but I really want to say something about some of them.

The first one uses a trope overused in Ron-bashing fanfiction : the fact that Ron eats a lot and sometimes speaks with his mouth full. Obviously, the author has forgotten what it is to be a teenager, and especially a thin teenager. Their metabolism needs food, and loads of food, because they are growing up and thin people tend to burn off energy more rapidly.

The fourth makes me sick. (Not that they don't all make me want to throw up.) First since it uses the overused trope I have already mentioned. Moreover for Ron would definitely do what Harry asks him to do, and for Ron is definitely not cruel. And thirdly because... THE BIRDS ! Does it ring a bell, a physical assault on Ron with birds ?

The fifth one. There is absolutely no universe where Ron, I'm-going-to-kill-Malefoy-with-my-bare-hands!Ron, would call Hermione a Mudblood. No. Way.

The sixth. Just because Ron said once something like "It would be nice to have galleons for a change", once "I hate being poor" (ONCE !!!), "Lucky you" (referring to Harry not noticing the difference on his amount of gold when the fake money disappeared), "Where's mine ?" (asking Bill where his money was because Bill has just given Harry a purse full of gold), that's it, Ron is greedy. Just because he doesn't want to be in need. Although he never complained that much.

These people hating Ron for he does not like to be poor are just self-righteous and have very probably never lived in the same situation. They have never been homeless, have received all the gifts for Christmas they wanted, have lived in a warm and comfortable house. It's easy to think about morals when your stomach is full, your health is perfect and well taken care of, and your basical material needs are fulfilled.

I remember a story my dance teacher told me : there was a poor woman in Africa who had lost a husband, a son and a leg in a war and still considered herself luckier than a French homeless person because she had a roof above her head.

I'm not saying that losting a loved one is less terrible. Nothing is more terrible.

Just that hating a fourteen-years old boy who never received another Christmas gift than a maroon jumper he hates but still puts on without really complaining because his mother made it, because he would like to have clothes that fit him or galleons he could spend to offer things to his friends is stupid. Really. And shows a lack of empathy.

Moreover, it's not as if Ron was not generous. All he has he shares it. His galleons, he mostly spends it on gifts for his friends. He gave his Christmas gifts to an house-elf. Ron has a really big, big heart and nothing is more important to him than his friends and family.

Eight. Just. How dares he / she ? That's what I hate with this fandom. Everything is twisted to correspond to the views of people.

Last. The prefect badge. My god the prefect badge. Maybe the most disgusting one, because Harry and Hermione are depicted as thinking the worst of him and somehow echo the 'No one in their right mind would make Ron a prefect'. The fact that Ron is often belittled by the fans who don't think he deserved the badge is reminiscent of the fact that Ron didn't either. Ron didn't think he deserved it. That makes me soooo angry.

Pansy Parkinson deserved her badge, but Ron ? Nooooo of course.

The question of worthiness in Ron-bashing is central. People operate a grading : some characters are better than others. The worst is to think that they do it in real life.

I am really naive. I thought that most readers would be inflamed by such display of stupidity. How wrong I was ! This story had 242 reviews, whose only 12 were critical. On the twelve crital ones, 4 were saying that Ron was just an ordinary teenager with no talent, but that it was a shame to dislike him for that.

The rest ?... At this point I don't know if I want to cry or burst into flames out of rage.

I have warned you before. I warn you again. Be aware of the violence of what will follow.

"More!

In order to get a good nights sleep, I need to read about Ron dying in horrendous and funny ways, due to his folly and vices."

At this point it looks like a caricature, doesn't it ? We can notice, however, that people vent out their frustrations and violence on fictional characters. It's up to you if it is good or not. I think it is sick to post it on the Internet, on a personal level.

"A note to a couple of Ron fanboys that posted. First, don' t like? Don' t read. You can tell it is a bashing story from the summary. Second; each person can interpret the canon events the way he wants. Personally, i see it like this: Ron betrayed and abandoned his supposed best friend when he needed help the most. Twice. And he never even apologised properly! It is not our best moments and actions that show us who we really are, but our worst ones. Because, usually, that is when one lets his true self show. Ron is not a bad person, but he is an idiot in canon."

It actually reflects a way of thinking. Ron is defined by the moment he felt betrayed and argued against his best friend - and he tried to apologize, though didn't make Harry apologize for hitting him - and the moment he left under mental torture - the first one who tells me Ron isn't strong-willed will have to run really fast from my anger, because Ron resisted possession and once rebelled against a thought mass murederer on a broken leg and they know nothing about torture -. For this kind of people, you can't have flaws. You can't be faulty. You have to be perfect. You can't ever be forgiven. This is unhealthy.

"*Insane laugh* I love this story! I've always hated Ron. *Sigh* If only he died in cannon, then my life would be complete!"

Once again I am amazed by the VIOLENCE of such a statement.

"I just love the first one where Ron dies while stuffing his face. I have often thought that he had either Bulima or a tapeworm. I have actually seen someone eat like him. It turned out that this person was Bulimic. How else does someone stuff himself and remain skinny?"

It displays a total lack of understanding of what eating disorders really are. Those are disorders which are really extremely difficult to deal with on a daily basis. They are mistaken here with bad eating manners.

"Are you in middle schoolers? Because that's how they teach you how to write in middle school. Also, Ron IS stupid. His grades show that. And Hermione is always caring and helping Harry, even when Ron is off sulking, jealous of Harry. And who cares if Ron came back after leaving? He still left! And getting his ass off of bed is not an excuse for Ron. He only goes along with Harry because he needs to! To keep being Harry's friend, that is. You're actually as mentally deficient as Ron is, and I hope you learn some proper fucking grammar."

Once again intelligence is confused with good grades. That's how you end up with teachers telling students who don't have good grades that they are too stupid to do anything of their life. Ron is here considered as an opportunist. As if he had chosen to be friends with Harry for fame -internal scream. As if being friends with Harry was easy. As if he had not commited his life to help his friends. Notice that once again someone is judges according to his so-called bad actions (to me, Ron leaving is not a mistake Ron did, as I said multiple times already).

"Oi weasel!, for the first and final time, there will never be an Hermione and you, so stop dreaming about her; she's way, out of your league, otherwise l will make you into an weasel patty..."

Love is seen as a question of worthiness.

"Can the Basilisk eat him? please please let the Basilisk eat him"

Once again the violence strucks me.

"ugh i hate him 2 he always runs away or gets jelous. The one thing he did was play stupid chess. Like geez. I love the owl 1".

Chess is considered stupid. CHESS IS CONSIDERED STUPID, BUT WRITING AN ENTIRE FANFIC TO KILL A FICTIONAL CHARACTER IS NOT. Those people are sickeningly judgemental and self-righteous.

"Thank you, I really needed a good laugh and nothing is more funny than Ron dying in horrific, nasty ways."

*throws up*

"Hilarious. Keep updating. I can't stand Ron. The flaws of Snape, Albus, Remus, Sirius and the rest makes them interesting characters. The flaws of Ron make him a putz."

Notice that Ron is the one character that apparently can't be forgiven for his flaws. Ever.

"Lol, Keep killing Ron, it's enjoyable. It's a good stress reliever to read these. :)

See ! Ron is nothing more than a punching ball to those people. I'm scared, really. Their immaturity is worrying.

"I agree with you about Ron he really is a good for nothing person in canon."

*sees red* That's what I'm fighting against in real life. People telling teenagers (and here one of the most admirable fictional teenagers I've ever seen) with a crippling lack of self-esteem that they are worthless. DON'T LISTEN TO THEM !

"this is so funny. i love the owl treats one. my favourite so far. anyone who dares say this is rubbish will face my anger, dont worry. just because it wont happen in canon dosent mean its not good."

Well, sorry to break it to you, but this is rubbish.

"Harry could have been the next Voldermort or Dumbledore if Ron hadn't infected him wi"

Ron and his friendship with Harry are seen as DISEASES.

"Weasley must die! Weasley must die!"

"I actually don't mind Ginny as a character, but Ron has always severely irritated me. The ending to Deathly Hallows was disappointing - how could JKR stick Hermione with a git like that? Ron's been nothing but awful to her since day one, and let's not even get started on how he's treated Harry...

Not really such a "loyal" sidekick, is he? When it all comes down to it, he's a selfish prat, thinking of nobody but himself. The PoA incident with Crookshanks, then GoF when he accused Harry of putting his name into the Goblet - there's been numerous occaisions in which that red haired git has allowed his jealously to get the better of him and abandoned his friends all because of his own petty insecurities.

Halfway through Deathly Hallows, I was ready to strangle him. I know the locket probably brought most of it on - but I don't see that as an excuse for him to throw a childish temper tantrum and blow up about Harry not knowing what he's doing. Okay, so you miss mummy's cooking, and living your life as a lazy sloth..

No reason to take it out on your two best friends. At least your parents are still alive, you ignorant MORON. I was rather pleased when Harry told him off, though. :)

All in all; Ron has always been an annoying, pain in the butt character to me. Utterly useless, really.

I can't wait to see what other creative ways you come up with to kill him.

*adds story to favorites*

Weasley is NOT my king."

So many things wrong.

Ron has been nothing other than awful to Hermione ? What about 'You're the most wonderful person I've ever met ?' 'She's been perfect, as usual.' ? What about getting detention several times (and one washing bedpans) for defending her ?

#ron weasley #hp #anti ron-hate

[strongwomanspeaks4joy]

The basics/Main Characters

The basics about me: I was raised in a very conservative evangelical christian home. My siblings and I were homeschooled to give us a “christ centered education”. We went to church in the next town over a lot. We had almost nothing to do with the community in the town we lived in. It was a small, rural town like so many: past its prime by 40 years with more crime than the locals wanted to admit and rife with poverty and idiotic pride. We lived in a fairly quiet neighborhood and the local kids (including us) spent any spare moment playing in yards and riding our bikes in the street. Life wasn’t all bad. 

But dad was there. I’ll call him J. I don’t like calling him “dad”. He lost that right years ago. J was a narcissist and somewhere on the dark triad scale (narcist/psychopath/sociopath). He was the boogyman, the monster, the bear, the judge, jury, and executer. He was the Spanish Inquisition. We lived in cringing, placating terror of him and his moods. I’ll be talking a lot about him since SO MUCH HAPPENED and it’s taken me literal years to realize that he was the adult in all of those situations. 

Mom suffered under J’s abuse for 30+ years. She was emotionally, mentally, and spiritually abused that entire time. She loved us the best she could and took care of us the best she could. She struggled through depression and health issues while practically being a single parent to three kids close in age--one with special needs--while also running the house and homeschooling us. She thought she was saving/protecting us from J and it took her a long time to realize that she wasn’t. She was also complicit in the conservative indoctrination and a lot of the more general crappy stuff that she believed was important or good (purity culture, hyper-religiousness, being an anti-vaxxer among other things). She is still anti-vax, conservative, super religious, gullible as heck, kinda racist, homophobic, transphobic, other phobics that I probably have yet to discover, voted for Trump, and often circles the drain on being radicalized. She’s also amazing with kids, supportive in ways that surprise me, loves her kids to the moon and back, an amazing musician, and gentle (if sometimes a parrot of much less gentle people). She’s a complex person. I love her and I’m proud of her and also profoundly disappointed in what she chooses to believe. 

I’m the oldest kid. I’m now in my 30′s and have strayed farthest from the old conservative life/beliefs. I started doing that at 17 when we moved to a different state and I made friends with folks who were the kind of people I had be raised to distrust and avoid but ended up being my kind of people. I’ve always landed in the weird in between places. I’m too liberal and ask too many questions to be a real conservative/evangelical. I’ve often been to conservative in my own moral code to jive well with the more relaxed crowed. Though I’ve figured that out more in the last few years and I’m DEFINETLY NOT conservative OR evangelical. When I was a kid I took my “eldest sibling” roll very seriously. I tried REALLY hard to protect my siblings. It didn’t work. I’ve carried some almighty and misplaced guilt because it didn’t work. I’m also engaged and, because I dearly love my fiancée, I have realized that I’ve got a lot of “daddy issues” I need to work on to be healthy myself. My fiancee is SUPER SUPPORTIVE AND WONDERFUL OH MY GOSH. Due to the pandemic I haven’t been able to keep myself insanely busy to run away from my issues soooo anxiety and lack of previously available workarounds (aka never stop spinning) means that I’ve finally gotten my butt to therapy and WOW there’s a lot. 

Sibling 2 I’ll call SL. They are typical middle child: people pleaser, peacemaker, “easy” kid. SL and I were attached at the hip as kids. We were often mistaken for twins since we were close in age and had the similar  mannerisms. We didn’t experience the same things the same way but we had very parallel childhoods that often overlapped. When we’re telling stories about the past we still refer to our individual selves as “we” since we were always together. J really targeted them for more of the sexual and surrogate spouse abuse. They were young enough and desperate to please this impossible man that they tried to make him happy and not rock the boat. It didn’t work. They’ve carried the mental and emotional damage from that to this day. They’ve been in and out of mental health hospitals, therapy, medication, suicide attempt, but they’ve done INCREDIBLE work to become a heck of a lot more stable. I could not be more proud of them!

Sibling 3 will be BJ. They were the youngest and also the one with special needs. The cognitive, behavioral, and learning disabilities they deal with is a freaking laundry list of conditions. J *hated* them. He was more physically violent with BJ than he was with the rest of us. By the time BJ was 6 they had had multiple wooden spoons broken on them through spankings, had been taken by the throat by J and shaken till their teeth clacked more than once, had been locked in their room alone overnight while they had a complete autistic meltdown, hand been screamed at, grabbed and physically hauled around by the back of the neck on the regular, mocked, belittled, scathingly criticized, and completely dismissed as worth J’s time or energy unless it was negative. BJ and I fought all the time as kids. They were my kid sibling so I was protective of them--but I didn’t really like them until I moved out of the house and we weren’t driving each other nuts. They have also done an INSANE amount of work to be the person that they are today and I am so, so SO proud of them! 

[justmenoworries]

Chara Is Not A Sympathetic Character At All

Okay, I have had it with this fandom claiming that Chara is this poor, tortured martyr who actually just wanted to save everyone but was corrupted by the player! So I’m going to debunk a few common misconceptions about them and explain why, in my opinion, what Chara did and does in the game isn’t, never was and never will be “understandable”, “sympathetic” or “not their fault”.

“Chara Is The Narrator, So They’re actually Good, Because they’re Helping You!”

While it is made very clear in-game that Chara narrates the Genocide Route

there is little to no evidence that they are the narrator for the entire game. While it is definitely a possibility and a fun headcanon, it is definitely not canon.

“Chara Went To Mt. Ebott To Kill Themselves! They Are Suicidal!”

No. If you pay even the slightest bit of attention during the opening of the game (where, spoilers, we see Charas’ fall, not Frisks’) you can clearly see that Chara falling down was an accident.

Also, when walking through New Home and hearing the story of Chara from the monsters, they mention that Chara called for help right after they fell. I really doubt they’d do that, if they wanted to die anyway.

As for the reason they climbed Mt. Ebott in the first place: Only Asriel knows for sure and he isn’t telling. The only thing we know about the circumstances of their decision to come to Mt. Ebott is this very vague statement Asriel gives us:

Honestly, that could basically mean anything. And assuming Asriel confesses this to us right afterwards:

I think it’s way more likely that Chara was searching for a way to act on their dark desires to erase the very thing they resented so much: humans.

After all:

“Chara Hated Humanity, So That Means They Must Have Hated Themself Too!”

Not necessarily. How many times have you heard someone say “Ugh, humanity sucks!”, acting as if they weren’t in fact a part of it? Especially someone of very young age?

“Chara Sacrificed Themselves For The Monsters! They Just Wanted Everyone To Be Free!”

Ahh, yes. Charas “Sacrifice”. Let’s talk about that, shall we? First of all, the word “free” is treated very ambiguously in Undertale.

Second of all, an integral part of Charas plan was murdering seven humans to get their souls. Everyone always seems to kind of skim over that when jumping to defend the little psychopath. And Chara was incredibly eager to get to that part of the plan:

Even if Asriel hadn’t resisted at the last second and the two of them did manage to harvest the souls they needed:

How many innocents would have been caught in the crossfire?

How many elderly, disabled, young children, women, heck, even newborns and pregnant women?

A lot.

And it would have been just what Chara wanted. They most likely wouldn’t have cared who the soul was from, as long as they could mercilessly slaughter them while simultaneously claiming it was to set everyone “free”.

So, yeah.

Charas so-called “sacrifice” was mainly them finally fulfilling their wish of erasing humanity.

Because even if, after all that, Chara and Asriel would have somehow managed to get back to Mt. Ebott without getting killed, somehow would have managed to convince Toriel and Asgore to use the souls of seven humans they murdered and thus free the monsters: Do you really think everything would have just been fine and dandy after that?

No.

The humans from the village would have wanted revenge for their lost. It would be the war between humans and monsters all over again, with even more casualties on both sides.

And that, much like the soul collecting through murder, would have been just what Chara wanted.

They even took an extra security measure to make sure Asriel wouldn’t back out at the last second.

What’s that, you ask?

Bringing their dead body to the surface with them of course.

Chara was a lot of things, but they weren’t stupid. They figured that Asriel would probably have his doubts about killing humans, even when given such a strong motivation as freeing monsterkind.

So the most logical thing to do would be to force him into a situation where he had no other choice but to fight back.

A monster with a human soul would already be a horrifying thing to look at.

And maybe their appearance alone would have been enough to make the humans attack. But Chara couldn’t be sure of that. So they upped the scare factor so to speak.

A terrifying beast, carrying the dead body of a human child?

More than enough to provoke the humans into attacking and thus, making Asriel fight back in turn.

However, Chara miscalculated.

Not even being attacked by humans could get kind-hearted, little Asriel to use his new power to kill.

It was this mistake that lead to both of their tragic deaths. And to basically everything in the Underground going even more to sh*t afterwards.

So to sum it all up: Charas plan was born out of their selfish desire to kill humans for a reason nobody knows, by taking advantage of the monsters’ desperate situation and Asriels’ worship of them. It was far from martyrdom and it most certainly wasn’t a “noble sacrifice”, as so many fans like to put it.

Whether the plan would have worked out or not, it would have just brought more misery and suffering to everyone involved.

And Chara knew that. They knew that and they didn’t care.

“Chara Isn’t Responsible For What Happens In The Genocide Route! The Player Is!”

And last but not least: that one argument every Chara-defender just loves to pull out of their asses at one point!

Most of them also use this part of Charas speech.

While it is definitely true that the Player is the one who initiates the Genocide Route by “guiding” Chara in the Ruins, both Chara and the Player are the ones who carry it on and finish it.

Chara actively assists the Player.They provide vital information through kill counts and stop the Player if they haven’t killed enough monsters before the Undyne the Undying fight.

Chara also flat-out aborts the Genocide Route altogether should the Player choose to not kill Snowdrake. They even call the Player a “failure”.

Chara seems to be only on board with the plan if the Player meets their requirements. Meaning, Chara will only lend the Player their support if they kill absolutely everybody.

Even the people who once took them in as their own.

In fact, Chara kills quite a few people in the Genocide Route without the Players input.

So while it is true that Chara is not solely to blame for the Genocide Route, they sure as hell ain’t blameless either.

And to say that Chara is against the Genocide Route or doesn’t actually want to hurt anybody is a bold faced lie.

It is heavily implied in-game that Chara was and is a sadist.

In the Demo, if the Player chooses to kill everyone, Chara will say that it was “fun” and even eggs you on to “finish the job”.

In True Lab tape number 3, we learn of the rather unfortunate pie incident, in which Chara and Asriel accidentally poisoned Asgore by using Buttercups instead of butter to make a pie. This resulted in Asgore falling terribly ill and Toriel getting “real upset”.

Charas reaction?

Amusement.

And if the fact that Chara didn’t seem to be even remotely sorry or worried that they almost killed their adoptive father (quite the opposite, actually) isn’t enough evidence that they are one seriously messed up kid, how about that infamous scene in the Genocide Route with Flowey?

Chara smiles while stalking towards Flowey, most likely intending to kill him.

Those are not the actions of a person who doesn’t actually want to harm anybody.

Not to mention that Chara outright laughs at you if you choose to not erase the world at the end of the Genocide Route - while erasing the world anyway.

Welp!

Now that we’ve got all the common misconceptions out of the way, it’s time for me to explain why I think this little brat isn’t deserving of the “not evil just misunderstood”-treatment at all.

Let’s start with the biggest elephant in the room:

It was basically Charas’ fault that things went as shitty as they did for the monsters. Namely:

Asriel and Chara dying

The Underground losing it’s hope once again

Asgore being consumed with rage and declaring war on the humans

Asgore deciding to kill humans to get their souls and break the barrier

Toriel becoming disgusted by Asgores’ actions and leaving him

The deaths of the human children who came before Frisk

The creation of Flowey

Chara ruined a lot of peoples lives because they couldn’t let go of their hatred for humanity.

Falling down Mt. Ebbott and being adopted by the Dremurrs could have been a second chance for them. A chance to leave their old life behind and just live with the monsters in the Underground. The opportunity was practically gift-wrapped for them.

And what did they do?

They basically blackmailed their adoptive brother into a murder-suicide mission to further their own, hipocritic agenda.

They took away the Undergrounds hope.

They indirectly caused the deaths of five human children who probably had families and friends.

And all of that because they “hated humanity” more than they loved the people who took them in.

And if the Chara we meet in the Genocide Route tells us anything, it’s that to this day they don’t regret what they did.

They still only care about themselves and erasing humanity.

So don’t you come and tell me Chara isn’t the villain of this story.

#ut chara #ut asriel #undertale genocide run #undertale pacifist #undertale spoilers

[nerdylittleshit]

Thoughts about Spn 12x21

SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!

I usually try to avoid spoilers before I see the episode but I saw some comments on tumblr last night, so I was a bit prepared for the mess this episode is. SERIOUSLY CAN BUCKLEMMING JUST STOP KILLING BELOVED CHARACTERS AND JUST STOP WRITING FOR THIS SHOW ALTOGETHER? I really try to keep my blog wank free, but come on. Either Bob Singer has more power than we think to let his wife continue to write shitty episodes or there is something else going on. For all we know it is possible Eileen is still alive, but I think at least her letters were real, because the BMoL wouldn’t have wanted to risk to let the Winchesters know about their bug. The thing is Dabb is smarter than this. He is aware of the massive wank that followed Charlie’s death, so why would he allow something like this again? Killing the currently only disabled character the show has, and furthermore Sam’s love interest, his version of “something more with a hunter”. The episode even referenced Charlie’s death. Just like her Eileen provided the brothers with usefull information after her death. And of course Dean looking in the bathtub when they searched for Mary (though that could have been an actor’s choice and Jensen lampshading the whole Charlie-Eileen-paralell). The thing is killing Eileen is something Bucklemming would totally do, but I’m not sure about Dabb, so we might see her again. At the moment I think she is Schrödinger’s cat. (That doesn’t mean I forgive Bucklemming. THEY. ARE.THE. WORST.)

The BMoL

I think it is funny how Lady Toni kept calling Ketch a psychopath, as if she is above him, when it is clear that the BMoL are all psychopaths, the whole lot. Though the episode introduced two possible scenarios: they are demons (Sam said only demons can controll hellhounds) or more likely they are all brainwashed the way Mary is now.

Speaking of Mary: taking away once’s will is of course a recurring theme on the show (just as making shady deals... I guess Mary is a full Winchester). And as seen in this episode it is a fate even worse than death. Because what is life if you no longer have a choice in it? Mary tries to kill herself and then begs Ketch to do it. This marks the third time we see her suicidal, though this one is the worst. The first time was in 12x06 where she briefly considered Billy’s offer to return to heaven. Second was in 12x09 where she was ready to sacrfice herself for her boys. I wonder if this is foretelling that she will kill herself in the finale (maybe as part of another sacrfice) or the opposite, that she will live on. I would love if the show doesn’t get rid of her after one season (leaving her sons heartbroken) but instead finds a way to keep her, to show her struggle and her will to survive. If anything it would be in the spirit of AKF and YANA. And the nephilim who refused to let his mother die in 12x19 might be a foretelling for this? Sam and Dean saving her mother? I hope so.

Toni also tells Mary that they want to reset her to Mary Campell, natural born killer. Meaning she would be no longer a Winchester and no longer a mother. Not only do they want to take away her agency but her identitity as well. As Ketch said, she won’t even remember loving her children. Toni of course already tried to destroy her current identity with bursting her bubble abut her husband, revealing the truth about who John really was. As much as I wanted her to find out, I wanted Sam and Dean to tell her. And it’s not the only ugly truth Toni reveals; she also tells Sam and Dean about Ketch and Mary. And of course it is Dean who reacts way more intense than Sam (Lizzy and I talked a while ago about Dean’s inability to see his parents as sexual beings). Anyway, Toni knows about Azazel and tells Mary she has sources, which considering Toni’s murder board in 11x23 and the amount of misinformation the BMoL had this season, made me laugh a bit.

Mary losing her free will of course parallels her once again with Cas.

I also wonder if Ketch does have some feelings for Mary after all. He refused to kill her or watch her killing herself. Of course they still need her for their plan, but still. Then again Dr. Hess reminded us that Ketch has no problem torturing the woman he slept with (Mary) or killing them (Toni).

Also also Crowley working together with the BMoL was the least surprising thing ever. I wondered if he would help Sam and Dean, but now I’m sure he will because he needs their help in return. Speaking off.

Crowley

So of course he isn’t dead. I’m not a huge fan of his storyline in the recent seasons but even I think he deserves a better death scene (and so did Eileen, just saying). What I’m saying is that the mouse (or hamster?) wasn’t in the frame by accident or followed Crowley’s body just like that. Crowley is still kicking; his legs only got smaller. I also though for a moment it was Olivette. 

Crowley’s downfall of course was his hubris. He believed to be smarter than Lucifer, hell that he could even raise his son and use his powers, which given his record with Amara, not a good idea. And this I think might foretell the downfall of the BMoL; they as well believe in their masterplan (and the episode linked them together).

And so the episodes ends with the bunker becoming a tomb and their mother becoming a mindless killer, corrupting both the ideas of home and family. What a fun episode.

See you next week.

#supernatural #spn 12x21 #there is something about mary #cw suicide #spn meta #my meta #spoilers