#but i feel like it isn't because that's absurd

[homestuckreplay]

Violin Concerto in the Key of Meteor Strike: Who Is Rose Lalonde?

Character Deep Dive 2 - 6/2/2009

Homestuck’s narrator formally introduced us to John Egbert right as the comic opened, but our getting to know Rose Lalonde has been slower and more natural. From her earliest conversation with John on p.63, to her becoming a ‘playable character’ of the comic on p.139 when she and John begin playing Sburb, to our switch to following her in person actions on p.214, we already knew a lot about Rose before we had her name and list of interests. She’s just as weird as John but with a spooky gray filter applied, she’s a regular kid who will probably summon a demon, she’s an absolute control freak who’s still kind of a failure at video games, and she is our second Main Character, set up as a contrast to John as well as a friend.

Much like with John, I’ve used Rose’s list of interests to group the information we know about her, and to discuss her relationship with the other characters and with some themes of the comic so far.

Essay below the cut - about 3.6k words.

Quiz here - 13 multiple choice questions.

1. You have a passion for RATHER OBSCURE LITERATURE.

If this was the first thing we learned about Rose, I might see her very differently. I’d definitely take her more seriously. But I saw her destroy the plumbing and put the bunny back in the box, so learning this now comes off very differently.

With John’s ‘passion for REALLY TERRIBLE MOVIES’, we were given posters to illustrate his taste, and based just on critical reception, ‘really terrible’ is a huge oversimplification. So we know that the narration isn't completely objective, and we know from other clues that Rose's interests in psychoanalysis and games are fairly surface level, which makes it an easy leap to ‘Rose reads a lot of HP Lovecraft and thinks of that as way more obscure than it is because she’s 13 and gets book recommendations from forums’.

There are two posters on the left of Rose’s wall that could be book characters - they look like amateur art of regular, non-tentacled people. I wonder if they were birthday presents from one of her friends, whether it’s John or TG sending her original concept art made by the author of a book she likes, or fanart if one of her friends is a visual artist (GG, perhaps?)

John not only loves movies, but imagines himself in their stories (for example, p.223) and the things that happen to him reflect his movies in response. Without any specific titles, it’s hard to say if the same is true for Rose - but if so, it raises questions of genre. John’s story has been lighthearted action-comedy with darker themes below the surface, light fantasy and countdowns leading to an explosion that’s almost comically absurd even while it has our hearts racing. Rose’s story is already darker both in literal color and in tone. Her inventory system is still terrible but she uses it more pragmatically and she’s far more skillful about skulking around her own house. This, the design of her house, and the sudden flashes of lightning illuminating the sky red or revealing a shadowed figure give her story a survival horror feel. If that’s her taste in literature, it would make sense that she’d imagine herself in that type of story.

2. You enjoy creative writing and are SOMEWHAT SECRETIVE ABOUT IT.

Where a normal person might say ‘hey I heard you got the sburb beta’, Rose Lalonde says ‘I understand you have recently come into possession of the beta release of "The Game of the Year", as featured in respectable periodicals such as GameBro Magazine’ (p.63). It’s the first thing we hear from her, so we learn immediately that she likes the sound of her own voice. She’s the only kid in her friend group who uses perfect capitalization and grammar in her messages, and she criticizes game walkthroughs as ‘horrendously written’, suggesting a focus on the technical aspects of writing.

Her creative interest is seen in ‘I think I will write my own walkthrough’ (p.204) where she moves beyond criticism and at least believes she could make something better, and ‘It’s not especially practical. But I think they are elegant’ (p.154) which shows an interest in the style and aesthetics of things. We also get great glimpses of her prose in lines like ‘Its lurid glare has moved on to younger timezones’ (p.174) - I can imagine Rose writing fanciful mood and setting pieces that focus on description over dialog.

In her eccentric verbosity, Rose’s character voice is more similar to the narrator’s than any other character’s is. The narrative text on p.82, for example, feels more comfortable in itself than Rose’s messages do, but it’s not a million miles away. I’ll come back to Rose as a narrator figure in the section on knitting, somehow. 

Rose is not only secretive about her creative writing, she’s secretive in general. On page 164, she tells John not to investigate after she rips out his toilet. She asks him for ‘space’ to fix it and sends him away, and clearly prefers to work unobserved especially when she’s uncertain. She also shuffles her purple package into the closet (p.218) and her writing journals under her bed (p.220) when she feels the narration’s scrutiny. The narrator states ‘You would only resort to such an embarrassing activity while no one was watching’. Rose is clearly ashamed of some of her interests and personality, and hides a lot of herself from observers to make herself seem cooler and more mysterious than she is.

(I have to note that this does not work, at least not where her friends are concerned. Before we hear from Rose directly, we learn about her from TG, who says ‘maybe you can play with TT shes been pestering me all day about it. shes mackin on me so hard all the time i start to feel embarrassed for her’. Definitely not the way she’d want to be introduced to a mass audience).

3. You have a fondness for the BESTIALLY STRANGE AND FICTITIOUS, [...]

The 'bestially strange and fictitious' is what's being referenced in the tentacle of tentacleTherapist, not an innocuous interest in marine life. This is one of her shared interests with John, who apparently liked paranormal lore. It's interesting that these beasts are 'fictitious' according to the narration, but Rose's grimoire is specifically for 'summoning' the zoologically dubious, not just learning about them. This positions Rose as a more active character than John (summoning instead of learning lore) and as someone who has grand designs and fringe beliefs - kind of an Ellie Arroway in Contact figure.

I've talked about Rose and John as scientists based on their chumhandles, versus TG and GG as religious. We now know that Rose lives next door to an impressive sized lab broadcasting from an antenna. Depending on how good their security systems are, she might have explored here, or at least peered through the windows at the strange, unethical science experiments they're surely doing (aka the extremely routine lab work that she's interpreting as mad science). Growing up with scientists as her only neighbors might have inspired this interest and got her started on weird experimentation of her own. As it's unlikely she has formal training beyond middle school, it makes sense she'd be into weird tentacles in jars instead of a more academically accepted field.

I've been wondering how many of Rose's interests are from childhood and how many go further back. The cuddly Cthulhu plush and the very cartoonish monster on her shirt suggest this was a childhood interest, even if the specific monsters she likes have changed over time - some of her more unsettling posters might be recent additions. We don't know enough about her mom's parenting style to guess if she was mostly unsupervised on the internet and able to look at horror from a young age, or if she was held back from something she had an interest in until her mom felt like she was old enough, and how that might have impacted her either way.

4. [...] and sometimes dabble in PSYCHOANALYSIS.

This is the 'therapist' half of Rose's chumhandle, and the easiest interest to guess based on her early appearances. Psychoanalysis, to Rose, appears to be the idea of knowing people better than they know themselves and guessing their underlying motivations and thought processes - therapy through telling people what's going on in their head instead of talking it through with someone. From what we've seen so far, the vibe is 'she's read Freud's Wikipedia page and cares more about putting her basic knowledge into action than reading more theory'.

In Rose's first chatlog on p.63, she accuses John, 'You're wearing one of your disguises now, aren't you? You are typing to me right now while wearing something ridiculous.' She says this right after John mentions going to get the Sburb beta from his dad - 'mom' and 'dad' are activation words to someone with an amateur interest in Freud, and she's immediately putting herself in John's head and making assumptions about his life. (She's right, but probably only because they're already good friends).

On p.160 she tries to pull a similar move, saying 'Is this how your pent-up frustration with your father manifests itself?' and John shuts her down. But in her efforts to analyze other people, she tells on herself more than she wants to - her previous message was 'I am not sensing a lot of regard for the personal property of others' and considering this message comes as she throws John's personal property around his house, leaving his things on the roof and in the backyard, I'm going to call this one projection.

Rose's only direct statement about her mom is on p.174 - 'I'd rather not risk an encounter with my mother. I battled through her cloud of gin and derision once already this evening.' In this same pesterlog she compares her situation to John's, suggesting that she thinks John's situation of 'cake, jesters, unfaltering love and support' isn't really that bad. While she's not wrong, it's a very unproductive thing for a so-called therapist to say, and it shows a lack of self awareness - Rose seems like she would hate being coddled with cake and having a business clown cramping her goth style.

I really think Rose is more of a lab scientist than a therapist, but being able to perfectly understand and predict people is such a helpful skill for someone who is insecure and wants to project an image - if you can understand how someone thinks, you can influence what they think. She definitely wants to control how she's perceived, and likes to have information in general (see: immediately looking up GameFAQs when she couldn't figure out Sburb right away). Psychoanalysis is also used in literary criticism, so it's also possible that she uses this to advance her creative writing, if she's open to any kind of self reflection.

5. You also like to KNIT, [...]

Knitting stands out from Rose's more esoteric and highbrow hobbies. It's not something we've seen her mention, but her sweaters, scarves, socks and hats scattered on her floor look finished, so she has skill and commitment (but lacks a good storage space). I bet she knits while listening to audiobooks. It's a hobby that needs some perfectionism and attention to detail, which seem like traits Rose prizes even if she doesn't possess them (see p.170 where Rose reveals that she placed the Cruxtruder without rotating the room to check if she was in the way of the door).

Rose calls her shot about Sburb's punch card alchemy on p.157, and doesn't confess to reading walkthroughs until p.178. While it's possible she was reading them sooner, it's also possible that she's familiar with punch card knitting, maybe even has a knitting machine somewhere in the house. Knitting is fundamentally the same principle as (punch card) alchemy - taking an abstract image or code laid out on a 2D card, and using it to generate a physical object. The totem lathe and alchemiter could function similarly to a knitting machine, using build grist or cruxite instead of wool, but creating patterns in similar ways.

Following this logic, knitting is a generative hobby, as is creative writing. Rose makes things in a way that John really doesn't (he's clearly never finished coding anything) and has been doing so before playing Sburb. It's interesting to associate her with creation in light of her underlying god complex. Frankenstein is another 'obscure' book Rose has probably read and loved. She is a Dr Frankenstein type of scientist, she is going to knit Fluthlu and bring them to life. The Sburb server player is such a godlike role, and she slides into it so naturally, immediately taking full control and giving orders.

When she's the player character but we haven't seen her yet (p.139-201), she feels like an invisible but omnipresent narrator one layer below the actual narrator, a watchful presence that John can't escape. On p.145 she tries to select John with the Sburb cursor. It doesn't work, but what the hell was she going to do if it did? Drop him outside? I keep coming back to how she seems aware she's being watched by the narrator on p.218 and p.220, in the same way that John knows he's being watched by Rose (but doesn't seem aware of the narrator, despite reacting to their commands). Is it possible, even, that she's (consciously or unconsciously) trying to emulate the narrative voice with her messages in her efforts to take on a similar role?

Her conversation with John on p.204 is fascinating. John tells her there's a meteor heading for his house, and her response is 'I see'. She stays cool and collected and completely unattached throughout the conversation, trying to solve the problem through citing GameFAQs, talking about how much smarter she is than other people, and refusing to compromise on her incessant use of inconveniently elongated words. She fits the stereotype of the Objective Intellectual scientist so well, too concerned with what's possible to care about its fallout, taking notes on John's reactions in her lab notebook while feeling no emotions about the whole thing. It sure is interesting that a video game might be able to cause a meteor strike. Sure would be an intellectual exercise to figure out how to stop that. She is so perfectly above it all.

6. [...] and your room is a BIT OF A MESS.

I never realized John was neat until we had Rose, who definitely isn't. On p.160, she says she's 'tempted' to clean up the mess in John's toilet for him, but everything she does actually makes his bathroom worse. We've actually seen John clean (p.67) and the only out of place things in his room on p.4 are things his dad left there, if we assume that Dad left the hammer and nails for John to hang the painting. All his mess comes from accidental sylladex misuse - he even makes his bed. Rose will simply leave an expensive violin balanced precariously against the wall, drop a pre-punched card on the living room floor instead of placing it on the coffee table, and fail to return John's magic chest to his room even after she's 'got a feel for the controls' (although this last one could be her being silly on purpose). I can't decide if Rose is being an asshole by leaving John's house in a complete state or if she's just Like That and doesn't even notice.

Rose has an inventory system that she knows how to use, so it's easier for someone to be clean if they want to be. Maybe she just doesn't. The rest of Rose's house is empty besides dope ass wizards - on p.230-235 we see that Rose's house is filled with long, expansive corridors, has at least three floors, and is large and modernist with strange towers and extensions and bubbles. If Rose's mom is minimalist and Rose feels like her house is missing something, of course she would expand to fill that space, with her physical possessions as well as her personality.

7. And on occasion, if just the right one strikes your fancy, you like to play VIDEO GAMES with your friends.

John has a poster of the Problem Sleuth heroes on his bedroom wall, as well as a copy of the game, and Rose has a poster of the Problem Sleuth beasts and demons. It would be cute as hell if they played it together. Rose playing a video game has been most of what we've seen of her so far, so I've kind of covered that in other points - I want to talk about the 'with your friends' part, and specifically, how she and John met.

They seem so different, and based on Rose's strong reaction to the intelligence of GameFAQs writers, if she just encountered John on a forum she would not give him the time of day. John definitely isn't stupid, but I think he can come off that way in a first interaction, and I think Rose makes quick judgements about people. John can definitely banter with Rose - my favorite early interaction of theirs is 'TT: Can a disorder also be a complex? EB: in your case, probably!' (p.160) - so all it would take is getting over the initial hurdle of starting a conversation. So I have three theories.

The first is that they did meet on a forum, and John was just so charming in his silliness that Rose eventually warmed on him. Maybe John got stuck on the loading screen of a game and couldn't figure out how to press start and Rose helped him out and John just kept liveblogging his game in the thread. Maybe John asked a question about Slimer from Ghostbusters on a cryptozoology forum and Rose gave him a weirdly anatomically detailed answer that referenced a worrying home use of concentrated sulfuric acid. Maybe Rose posted some of her writing online and John left a glowing comment.

The second is that they met through TG. He seems to have a fair bit in common with both of them - on the surface, more than they do with each other. He could have noticed one of their shared interests and put them in contact, or he could have been trying to fuck with them by setting them up to hate each other and it backfired. Either feels plausible from what we've seen of him so far.

The third is that Rose just used to be different. John has the childlike spirit of the clown and I get the sense that he's always been the same, whimsical on the outside with a malaise hovering within. But Rose is trying to put on such a sophisticated affect, which could be recent. Rose could have been bubbly, accepting and open to talking to anyone a few years ago. She's changed as a person, but stays loyal enough to her friends to brave the evil red storm for them.

Final Thoughts

I find Rose easier to analyze than John - she's not less complex, but her complexities are made more obvious in the text. We also don't get the luxury of sitting with Rose and learning about her organically like we did with John. The meteor countdown is flashing in my mind even when it isn't on screen, and the text needs to take shortcuts, telling us about Rose instead of just showing her. As such, I don't have as many questions hanging as I usually do, but there's still a few.

What's up with both John and Rose being really talented at music, but this not being listed in their interests or directly acknowledged by the narrator? Does the narrator fucking hate music? The narrator of a webcomic which has so far included five original music tracks??

Is Rose consciously aware of the narration? Is it something that just began for her when we saw her, or has that been part of her life before? Is this why her personality is so cultivated, because she feels like she's always being watched?

What exactly is Rose's relationship with her mom? Is her mom a mean alcoholic who mocks Rose's grief over her cat, or is this a story Rose is telling herself about her very average mom?

Is Rose a weird kid who actually has a pretty normal life, like John, or is her life weird for real? Does she live in a massive haunted house or are we getting her exaggerated perspective?

More broadly, what sources of information in Homestuck are reliable? The narration and chatlogs are both biased perspectives, but what about the images? Are we seeing the characters' worlds as they actually are, or are we seeing things as the point of view character perceives them?

I love Rose. She and John have both been really easy to connect to, are extremely likeable, and feel like real people I could run into on the internet. I love how average they seem and how they really have more flaws than strengths - it adds to the realism, and sets them up with a lot of cool options for story arcs. A Rose who's a loser and kind of sucks is so much better to me than a Rose who's actually good at the things she claims to be, and my only hope is that we solve the imminent crisis and see more of her being truly silly.

#AFFECTIONATE. if i dunk on her here its because i love her and i think shes a good character #tho i did struggle not to refer to her as the sheldon cooper of her generation #homestuck #analysis #rose lalonde

[germiyahu]

Like hot take, but if Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo's parents or grandparents had immigrated to Mexico from Israel (or a Kibbutz in M.P.) the hammer and sickle twitter response to the hate campaign against her would not be supportive in the least!

And it's not super supportive now. I don't know, but it seems that they're more interested in dunking on the Nazis then standing up for Jewish people. This woman's whole family is secular, she has not made her Jewishness a part of her public or political image (why should she have to)? This does fit a pattern where the bare minimum you have to do as a Jew to gain support is to assimilate and keep your mouth shut. If you can't denounce Israel your Jewishness better be relegated to a paragraph on Wikipedia.

Leftists love to point out kindergarten level antisemitism. They love to debunk that Nazi checklist about Jews hating Jesus while Christians and Muslims revere him. Of course they debunk it because it "won't liberate Palestine," as that's all antisemitism is, a distraction (often orchestrated by Mossad). It's easy to call out Marjorie Taylor Greene antisemitism. But we've seen how they handle any other kind. So I'm not surprised they're taking the chance to earn easy social media points here. Call out the people saying "Too many Jews are in positions of power!"

While also saying "They must have edited her nose!" like they love to draw attention to Jewish features that the Nazis surely must be talking about when they go on their antisemitic tirades.

It's cheap and it's easy, and it's a distraction from their own bullshit, and I also think they have fun doing it. They think the Nazis are funny, and it's fun to clown on them. It's all so performative. That twitter user goes on to call Israelis Nazis and denounces Bernie Sanders (who refuses to attend Netanyahu's speech but says that Israel has the right to defend itself up to a certain point).

This isn't actual allyship. Then again, I don't think they expect Jewish people or their allies to actually think that. Considering that the tone was not condemnation but "Lol Right wing antisemites are going to have a meltdown about this." I do think that Left wing antisemites relish in Right wing antisemitism. It's a joke to them. They don't care about Jewish lives or Jewish safety. They love feeling smugly superior while saying basically identical things but just about a group of Jews preselected to be unvictimizable.

Another "Twitter moment" was some right wing Trump loving doofus putting on a Magen David jacket and proclaiming he was unafraid to walk around NYC, cue that crowd making fun of "how safe he'd really be," while ignoring that Jews pointing out a tangible rise in hate crimes and hate speech and a general unwelcoming atmosphere.

Antisemitism is always "their" problem, never ours. But I've noticed that recently even if they can acknowledge the problem... it's not even a serious problem anymore. They're more likely to just laugh at the "absurdity" of it and then feel like they've demonstrated that they and their ideologies aren't filled to the brim with Judenhass.

#leftist antisemitism #antisemitism

[macroglossus]

i'm so extremely far into an au that genuinely bores me. what's the point if the main characters are out of character and the majority of the side characters are original characters?? brother that is just a separate piece of fiction. also the only parts they kept of every character actually included is their worst traits which just seems mean spirited

#i didn't realize it was so long man. i really didn't. #ive read the equivalent of the first two and a half harry potter books of just boring shit and i didn't even realize #one character is an oc and so tremendously annoying that i skip his dialogue entirely #but he's apparently extremely likable!!! according to the comments #like literally ALL of character traits are their worst!!!!!!! to an impossible degree it HAS to be on purpose #but i feel like it isn't because that's absurd #right???? #they have absolutely no redeeming qualities. how are they doing this #and the worldbuilding is kind of insane if you give it a single thought. why am i reading this #i mean it's well written in terms of prose but the contents. rargh

[laylawatermelon]

I have thoughts about this ep...

(It's not good... But not bad)

911's writing of this storyline seems to be teetering in the wrong direction and it may cause a disconnect with some viewers.

Hi! I literally took a nap and woke up with an essay 🙃.

But let's get to the good stuff.

This season has been phenomenal. The acting and writing has all been consistent with the original past 4 seasons. (Season 5 and 6 were good just had a different tone)

This has been due to the show runner returning.

Now that we've gotten all the facts out of the way here's my opinion.

I'll be honest, the twin/lookalike story that came up is causing me to pull away and not in a good way.

If I objectively look at it as a fan this cones out of left field and may intrigue a set of fans. Those fans are likely in the higher age range. (Nothing wrong with it but just an observation)

(i keep up with updates online so it didn't bother me that much)

But for me as I was watching it and the scene came up and then The Grey's Anatomy came up I don't know why but a flash pinged in my brain of this feels like a Telenovela/Soap Opera.

And it is in fact a storyline commonly used or mentioned of the long lost twin or the doppelganger who's back to destroy, seduce, etc. to shake up the main characters life.

I will say that what 9-1-1 has been doing is a good job between toeing the line between supernatural and realistic.

This is leaning a bit to close to the former and can lose some people.

(i will say that this storyline isn't hitting like it usually does the others, even if I wasn't an buddie fan. Hell as an Eddie fan I'm still confused)

The tone of the show this season has been lighter so of course the storylines do reflect that.

My only gripe is what makes 9-1-1 compelling in the first place is the odd fact that the characters don't die and they're realistic (enough) in their cases and drama.

They're gripping enough that they can use these cliches to grip the audience backed by stellar performances and direction.

I just don't like the soap opera-y feeling I got from the trope. (Personal preference what can I say)

Now the next episode will probably expand on this storyline and will cause the conclusion to be touching and heartfelt.

I'm just a bit sour about the lead up to it because it's like oh this woman who looks exactly like my deceased/missing partner appears in the same vicinity as me (despite living in a very big very populated state) so I must get to know her better. I end up throwing away my morals and then something bizarre happens and then something else happens and I find out she's insert - (illusion/twin/stalker/literally anything out of pocket you can think of).

The audience swoons because of course she is (bad/evil/plotting etc).

It's not gripping me.

Emotionally however I'm intrigued how this will eventually effect Christopher as it he sees her he's screwed for life.

In addition to his dad talking to her in the first place, therefore unintentionally enforcing his women all leave/slight lack of respect for their feelings as they're replaceable (she would literally replace his mom in name and face) or disposable (Marisol as the woman left behind).

Yes Eddie's happy but he's also being more reckless than he usually is.

He's always been aiming to find what they had but his actions have implications.

(imma put on my buddie hat for a second this is all/j)

Like how he leaves his son with his dad and goes on a date with another person constantly. 😤 Rude

(no lie they are good coparents though even if they are platonic. They work better than some romantic straight families on tv)

Back to analysis mode though, this action has dangerous implications on both how relationship with Christopher and how he can harm him and eventually how their relationship can decline because of this.

It's not just the disloyalty to both his current partner and son but the example he'll be setting.

Chris probably may end up listening to Buck more as a result because he wouldn't/hasn't hurt him in the way his father currently does with this situation. For relationship advice and such.

Yes it's good drama (in an emotional/analytical sense) I'm just sulky about the telenovela feel of it don't mind me.

I'm positive their performances will make it lean more towards the procedural drama movie feel the show is known for.

Hell this had to happen some day right? The soap operafication of 9-1-1.

Hope is a beautiful ride at least. 🤷🏾‍♀️

(ps this episode was great all things aside)

#911 abc #evan buckley #buddie #911 fox #911thursdaytakeover #tv shows #oliver stark #ryan guzman #maddie buckley #bobby nash #athena grant #chimney han #hen wilson #karen wilson #911 meta #911 spoilers #911 speculation #911 season 7 #christopher diaz #soap operas and telenovelas are great #i won't knock em i watch tv from all over the world #i just feel so so about how this storyline has been playing out #the tone isn't quite matching with the show #even if it was absurd it was always explained #like the brain tumor or coma #this isn't rooted in reality so it's throwing me off because even if 911 is absurd it's still rooted in some form of reality #this just isn't explained #she just has a doppelganger like in their vicinity?? #long post #i will post an appreciation post for episodes during the break after the seaon

[hajimehinata]

i gave you all i had, i did

day 5 : sacrifice ( from @adfaugust )

all he’s ever done, he did it for this family.

tyler’s long been used to hours of work with little reward, underpaid for hard labour and chalking it up to his family name. the world’s out to get him, he’s always known it, has been told so time and time again by the holt matriarch. and he knows better than anyone that sharon wouldn’t lie, has been an honest woman from the day she was born. if she ever was dishonest, it’s cause she had to be, cause she wasn’t given another option. but ma’s honest, gets her way through respect built from her steely and admirable nature. sharon, impossible not to respect with her fingers poised elegantly around a cigarette. lord knows tyler gladly picked up that habit for a few stolen seconds of her company. always wishing blindly to soak up her presence, as if it would somehow cure him of his own inferiority, childishness she frowned upon. he always feels adult standing next to her — ’cept for when he don’t, when he feels like he’s quakin’ in his boots just being near her. tells himself it’s because he loves her, because he can’t stand the thought of her coming to harm. knows that he’s her protector and that’s all he is, and for a holt, that’s a blessing. no higher honour than to be at sharon’s side, making sure their shitheel of a pa don’t try anything. 

never strikes him that he might be thinking backwards, that the person he’s afraid of is the very person he loves the most. so wrapped around her finger he can’t see it for what it is, embraced into her perfumed storytelling, lies that sound like the truth, until tyler can’t help but believe in her. she’s his ma, and she needs him, everyone does. shoulders heavy burdens so she don’t have to, under the firm belief that he had a choice, but that no sane man would choose the other option.

what man would leave his ma to suffer all alone? none that are mannerly or polite, none that really care for her. tyler’s signed away his life, all twenty-five years of it thus far and whatever rest of it that cruel fate gives him. quickly revises the thought, since he oughta be grateful for what he has — the opportunity to be there for his ma, for his brothers. 

still doesn’t stop the white-hot jealousy from bubbling up in a weary chest when he sees how easily dale and jay are awarded with ma’s attention. don’t know the last time she called him sweetheart — or if she ever has. keeps blindly charging forward, since he knows why dale’s got ma’s heart; no one could hate a face like that or deny him a thing. and jay… as much as he don’t contribute, as much as he ain’t really one of them ( as much as his sensitive nature is rewarded when tyler’s was long stamped outta him, told time and time again that he’s the eldest and real men gotta keep their upper lip stiff ) … sharon’s affectionate towards the golden boy because he reminds her of that sister of hers. that woman who got herself knocked up and imposed herself on her charitable sister, only to wind up dead and leaving her screaming kid behind for sharon to care for like he’s hers.

( and if tyler had to pick up those motherly responsibilities, it’s cause ma obviously couldn’t, not after her own sister had died, and no one could have expected her to be well enough to take care of a kid or her three-year-old and certainly not her seven-year-old little man, the nickname brooke gave him as she pinched a solemn cheek still ringing in his head — )

— but ain’t he the same as brooke, now? running off to save his own skin when dale’s … a sharp pain lancing through his chest, solid evidence of how he’s failed the family. still feels the sting on his cheek when ma told him clear as day — he ain’t got this, he wasn’t responsible enough, never good enough. and selfishly he wonders how long he has to sweat and toil for … her approval, but he’d never say that. sharon don’t give out praise that ain’t earned, and tyler never earned it a day in his life. no matter how hard he worked. no matter how little he slept. no matter how kind he was to his charity case of a cousin. 

and he’s doing everything he can, even if ain’t good enough, even if it ain’t perfect. tells himself this is the best he can do for the ones he’s lost — protect himself cause he’s the only one left to protect her. when dale’s gone, pa’s in some hospital after his act of cowardice, and they had to leave jay behind when the cops were too close for comfort. he’s the only one left, and sharon’s safety’s all that matters. they come up with a plan, her and her only child, and there’s an unspoken understanding that passes through ‘em. the knowledge that they’re all they’ve got anymore, that they have to stick together. 

it’s everything he wanted. least, he thought it was. until jay shows back up on their doorstep and tyler’s left to stare. a brother back from the dead and the short-lived attention from his ma itching at the back of his ribcage. forced to think horrible thoughts, wondering if it was jay all along who took this from tyler. if sharon’s affections were only doled out to the youngest boys because that love’s finite, and because jay just had to be difficult, ruin things by taking that book and killing dale, the sting of a motherly slap across the cheek still smarting. can’t accept that he wants more than he’s got, so it’s jay’s fault. that festering itch getting worse until it’s damn near unbearable. it’s jay on the doorstep of the cabin and not dale, not his baby brother who sat on his lap and babbled to him in half-formed sentences, who didn’t leave him ( didn’t leave the family, comes the mental correction ) to go galavanting off in the woods. 

still, tyler takes first watch. is used to staying up and expects that neither ma nor jay will wake up for a second watch. maybe he’ll catch an hour or two, but he ain’t counting on it. more important that sharon gets her rest, and it’s not like tyler trusts jay to stay up and keep an eye out. not after he found out about brooke, the long-kept secret that shoulda been told to him long ago, so he could understand why he’s gotta make it up to the family more than ever. if anything, he thinks maybe jay’ll try to slink out and talk to him. the lie weighs heavy on his chest, but it’s the most sensible solution. ma needs to go on the motorcycle, and jay can survive out here in the woods. if tyler stayed ( and his chest constricts at the mere thought ) … he’d die. still, even though ma knows that, it’s still his duty to stay back. even with this busted leg, even with his lack of familiarity of the bush of two rock. when jay wasn’t around, the solution was simple. now, it’s staring him right in the eye. his imminent death. the same fate as dale. loving jay, then dying for it. 

the door creaks open, and tyler’s heart squeezes in his chest seeing it’s ma. it ain’t rare for her to seek out his company, whether it’s to unload some stresses or just cause he’s smoking at the same time as her, but that weary heart still jumps when she does. hard and clear evidence that he’s doing something right. but that brief hope gets squashed like an insignificant insect as soon as the words leave her mouth. can we talk about this canada thing? 

shoulda known she was coming out to ask about it, silently curses himself for not realizing sooner. remembers the other mistake he made, telling jay about his real ma, and braces himself for a scolding that thankfully never comes. sharon’s not a petty woman, and she’s moved onto more pressing matters. wondering why jay can’t have the prized seat next to her on the bike. wondering all that when she’s whip-smart and definitely smart enough to know tyler’d die if he stuck around back here. and it all comes flooding out. a juvenile confession, practically sobbed out. a desperate begging for love he’s always thought he was above. is it so wrong to want to live? is it so wrong to want a shot at life even when it’s long over? all his life, he’s given her ( the family, he hurriedly corrects, because even now, he can’t stop the helpless fawning over her ) everything he has, everything he is. and here he leans against the cabin post, staring up at the consequence bearing over him like a giant. finds himself scared and utterly alone in the face of this insurmountable beast. 

he just wants to live. and if that’s gotta mean just surviving from here on out, he wants that. if his fate was never to live his life, he’ll mourn it and bury it alongside dale. clenches his fists and jaw and tries not to let the grief consume him, crush that bad leg before he’s even got a chance to try to keep going. wouldn’t dale have wanted him to live? wouldn’t dale have wanted… and it feels blasphemous to even think, but wouldn’t dale have wanted his happiness? couldn’t sharon have loved him enough to want that for him?

but it can’t be about dale and it certainly can’t be about sharon, so it’s about jay, the boy who got everything tyler wanted just by being. who whines and gets his way, the eternal favourite and the one dale eventually left tyler behind for. but tyler knows he can still win. he’s just gotta convince jay to stay back. and he does. feels that affection he always had for the kid come back full force, all babyish smiles and hints of wisdom he don’t think even jay knows he has. tyler will miss him. he gets that now. wishes blindly and with all his heart that there were three seats on the motorcycle, even if the thought of sharing ma with jay was nauseating just an hour ago. 

tyler trudges back to his world, leaving jay to his own. greets sharon with a weary look, disillusioned like he hasn’t been in a long time. no longer is he excited to be the only one left. misses his brothers, both of ‘em, like hell. but at least he’s got ma, his sole purpose for as long as he can remember. something nettles him about that. maybe it’s just that jay taking off didn’t make him feel any better. 

that’s what he sticks with until one night at the church turns into two, and then three.

and tyler lays with his cheek pressed against a dilapidated floor and wonders. do we get what we deserve?

#as dusk falls #tyler holt #sharon holt #adfaugust2023 #pan writes #this is obviously inspired by the cabin scene and my intense feelings about it #and there's a lot i could say about it but i will say that this fic does not paint sharon positively #people do not seem to realize that both bear AND sharon have seriously abused their kids ESPECIALLY tyler #and the cabin scene really shows how for the first time in his entire life tyler is having an intense breakdown about #the absurd expectations placed on his shoulders #it's baffling to me that sharon would not stay behind if it meant her kids would be safe #ESPECIALLY since she goes to paul for help regardless! #but because both tyler and jay are so emotionally abused by her ( especially tyler ) it's never a question whether she should get that seat #leading to this huge fallout between tyler and jay #which tbf was already coming since we know tyler was dying to tell jay he was adopted #and he is severely in his feelings because he (AND LITERALLY SHARON) blames himself for dale's death #cannot stress enough that if dale dies from the sniper sharon tells tyler POINT BLANK that it was his fault. and similarly in the barn scene #if jay fucks up the two by fours bear LITERALLY tells tyler 'weren't you watching him? what's wrong with you?' #so like this isn't something tyler is just making up in his head. people ACTIVELY assign him responsibility over his brothers #in any case the point is atp tyler is DISABLED and there is no way he can make it on his own. leaving him there IS a death sentence #and while jay probably doesn't realize this there is no WAY sharon doesn't. why else would she abandon him and latch onto paul? #and i know she tells paul a different story but she is HEAVILY established as a liar/unreliable narrator in that chapter so #ANYWAY. i have normal thoughts and feelings about sharon and tyler's abusive ass relationship /lie

[stinkrascal]

i said this last night too but if you havent seen beau is afraid in theaters, PLEASE go watch it. it was so good, definitely very unconventional compared to aster's other films, but really abstract and interesting nevertheless. the whole movie felt like the heightened personification of an anxiety attack. seriously it's been 13+ hours since i saw that movie and i've been thinking about it ever since! it was just really good i really loved it a lot! might actually be my new aster favorite tbh

#i'd have to watch all his movies again but #beau is afraid is definitely up there for me #it's just so abstract. the whole movie felt like a dream #more like a nightmare lmao #but it wasn't scary necessarily. at least i didn't think it was scary #it's just very tense the whole way through and aster isn't afraid to plunge into the absurd and really live in it #it did a great job of abstracting really complex feelings of familial trauma and parental abuse #as someone who has a somewhat similar relationship w my own mother it really resonated with me #it's just SOOOOOOO good i absolutely loved it and i can't wait to hear other ppls thoughts on it! #just the fact that a movie like that was produced and set for a theatrical release is amazing on its own #because it definitely isn't what you imagine when you think of a traditional theater release ahaha

[friendofthecrows]

Trying to learn how to stop feeling bored all the time feels really stupid it's like:

J: i need something Significant and Interesting or I'm going to peel my skin off

M: everything can be interesting if you genuinely engage with it

J: empty platitudes, not working

Y: play really bad chess

J: ok

#these colors aren't even the ones i usually use for us i think but wherever #headmates #conversations with friends (headmates) #It's like. You will stop being bored once you stop obsessing over the 'requirements' for something being interesting #hypothetically as a vague 'this would be the perfect entertaining scenario for me' sure but on a daily basis #you just need intellectual stimulation #scrolling doesn't feel engaging right now because it is too easy and you have done too much of it #sometimes you've just got to choose an activity that you have no choice but to engage in #like puzzle/logic games or learning a new skill #but it feels like *angsting over the inevitable repetitiveness and banality of life* actually I'll just do a puzzle #isn't that absurd? #hal rambles #jokul posts #(idk if we have tags for each of us but it seems kind of relevant for this one??) #(usually we just use the generic 'hal rambles' tag)

[katyspersonal]

Wait what? I haven't seen this before but they just decide to encourage population they find too expensive to keep alive to... get rid of themselves????

#clown world #basically it is cheaper to kill mentally ill people than to treat them :^) #big shocker: suicidal state isn't normal for human beings and should be treated #i dont know what triggers to tag this with because it feels pointless #like how do you tag absurd lack of humanity #educate me

[as-rare-as-trees]

Shaking and growling and gnawing on something, I'm not saying that putting all -this- into art would fix me, but maybe I'm saying exactly that

#ughhghhhhhhhnb #it's just the need to put these thoughts and feelings and stuff down #but it has to be public #but I don't want to do it with words or overshare or whatever #i need to portray them in a way that's relatable but terrifyingly personal if you know the meaning #i need it to be almost casual and made up but also achingly real #i need to say and shout this but without words #it's...... idk #it's not even because it's deeply negative stuff #some is actually full of love and sunlight #some would yes be better shown through body horror and I would LOVE to learn how #buttttttt #i don't know how to do any of this #when I try to put this on paper it's always too much or too little or too stiff or it isn't quite how I want #i know I'm not gonna be satisfied because it's absurd #buut there are moments like this when my hands itch and itch and itch and #justthhgyyhg #basically I guess I want to carve my heart out of my chest and smash it on a canvas but make it look like it's just paint and not my blood #vaneggiando

[demilypyro]

So I've seen a few too many people on twitter talking about The Kiss Scene from the new Scott Pilgrim anime. People saying it's fetishistic and indulgent, people calling it male gazey, etc. And while the kiss itself is certainly a bit exaggerated, I felt like writing a bit about why I disagree, and why context is important, like it always is. But it basically turned into an extended analysis on the metatextual treatment of Roxie Richter. So bear with me. It's a long post.

What really matters about this scene is not the kiss itself, but what precedes it. Not even just the fight scene just before it, but what precedes the whole anime series, really. And that's the Scott Pilgrim comic book, and the live action movie. Because in both, Roxie is a punchline.

She's a joke. Her character starts and ends with "one of the exes is actually a girl, I bet you didn't expect that." Jokes are made about Ramona's latent bisexuality, the movie especially treating it as funny and absurd, and her validity as a romantic interest is entirely written off by Ramona as being "just a phase." There's a fight scene, she's defeated by a man giving her an orgasm which implicitly calls her sexuality into question (come on), and the movie just moves on. It sucks. It really, really sucks.

The comic fares a little better. It never veers into outright homophobia like the movie does, and while the line about Ramona having gone through a phase remains, Roxie actually gets one over on Scott when Ramona briefly gets back with Roxie. But Roxie is still only barely a character. Like all the other evil exes, she's just a stepping stone towards the male protagonist's development. She barely even gets any screentime before she's defeated by Scott's "power of love." But Roxie stands out, since she's the only villain who is queer, or at least had been confirmed queer at that point (hi Todd). In a series that champions multiple gay men in the supporting cast, the single undeniable lesbian in the story is a villain. She's labeled as evil, made fun of, pushed aside in favor of the men, and then discarded. Her screentime was never about her, or her feelings for Ramona. It was about the straight, male protagonist needing to overcome her. And that was Roxie Richter. An unfortunate victim of the 2010s.

Fast forward to current year, and the new anime series is announced. Everybody sits down to watch the new series expecting another retelling of the same story, and.... hang on, that straight male protagonist I mentioned just died in the first episode. And now it's humanizing the villains from the original story. And there's Roxie, introduced alongside the other evil exes in the second episode, and she's being played entirely straight, without a punchline in sight. No jokes are made about her gender, no questions are made of her validity as one of Ramona's romantic interests. The narrative considers her important. In one episode, she already gets more respect than she did in either of the previous iterations of Scott Pilgrim. And this isn't even her focus episode yet... which happens to be the very next one.

The anime series goes to great lengths to flesh out the original story's villains and to have Ramona reconcile with them. And I don't think it's a coincidence that Roxie gets to go first. While Matthew Patel gets his development in episode 2, Roxie is the first to directly confront Ramona, now our main protagonist. This is notable too because it's the only time the exes are encountered out of order. Roxie is supposed to be number 4, but she's first in line, and later on you realize that she's the only one who's out of sequence. She's the one who sets the precedent for the villains being redeemed. She's the most important character for Ramona to reconcile with.

What follows is probably the most extensive, elaborate 1 on 1 fight scene in the whole show. Roxie fights like a wounded animal, her motions are desperate and pained. Ramona can only barely fight back against her onslaught. Different set-pieces fly by at breakneck speed as Roxie relentlessly lays her feelings at Ramona's feet through her attacks and her distraught shouts. And unlike the comic or the movie, Ramona acknowledges them, and sincerely apologizes. And the two end up just laying there, exhausted, reminiscing about when they were together.

Only after this, after all of this, does the kiss scene happen. Roxie has been vindicated, she has reconciled with the person who hurt her, the narrative has deemed that her anger is justified and has redeemed her character. And she gets her victory lap by making the nearest other hot girl question her heterosexuality, sharing a sloppy kiss with her as the music triumphantly crescendos.

It's... a little self-congratulatory, honestly. But it's good. It's redemption for a character who had been mistreated for over a decade. And she punctuates the moment by being very, very gay where everyone can see it, no men anywhere in sight. Because this is her moment. And then she leaves the plot, on her own accord this time, while humming the hampster dance. What a legend. How could anything be wrong with this.

#scott pilgrim #spto #scott pilgrim takes off #roxie richter #roxanne richter #scott pilgrim spoilers #spto spoilers

[walkerrenee]

.

#monthly tag rant (: #i work in a middle school and today we were in a meeting about what we're doing for the next unit #and there's a textbook that's part of the (already made) curriculum and it has a bunch of different reading passges and short stories #and whatever #so we were trying to see which ones we can skip over since we don't have time to use them all and there was one that the summary was read #and it was basically about a kid who deals with racism in their neighborhood or something #and the way we were told we had to steer clear because it could be labeled critical race theory... #especially in a school district that has a higher number if minority families #like they literally probably EXPERIENCE this in their own lives as kids?! #actually not probably i KNOW some of them do and the fact we can't read something that could likely be relatable and potentially helpful #(i didnt have a chance to read it so i cant say what exactly it's message/lesson is but) #it's just fucking insane and this is my girst year there so i don't really have a feel for all the teacher's opinions and stuff too #so the dynamic was so off not knowing if their reactions were directed at the absurdness or bc they in some way agree.... #i fucking hate this state and country #we also as 'required' to report if a student discloses they are or may be trans... #like actually'hypothetically' i will NOT be fucking doing that #a surefire way to put a CHILD in danger what the actual fuck is wrong with this shit #DONT GET ME STARTED ON THE FUCKING BOOK BAN/RESTRICTIONS ALSO IN PLACE OH MY FUCKING GOD #like i know this isn't NEW information and my mother has been a teacher for over a decade #but it's disorienting to be directly in front of all this shit being in place #all of this shit is just hurting children and it's fucking ridiculous how no one actually values kids and human beings #as*** human beings #never have and looks like they never will #you don't care about protecting children you care about controlling them and making yourself comfortable in your ignorance!!! #rant over gonna go scream into my pillo #pj talks #about

[crocwork-clockodile]

How do I ask for love without it feeling like an imposition? How do I build that kind of love when it seems I'm not cut out for it? Why is what's enough for me never enough for those I love most?

#don't mind me I'm having Feelings about being aspec #and because my next therapy appointment isn't for another two weeks I'm making it tumblr's problem #perhaps a silly question: am i somehow unconsciously holding my allo friends back from having relationships #so we can all be single and happy together? #no that's absurd. obviously. #but anyway yeah how do i ask to be loved and prioritized and given attention without sounding like a whiny toddler?? #is such a thing possible? #is this that horrible 'vulnerability' garbage again? but that's too scary! i might give my friends the ick!!! i refuse #personal stuff #aroace #aspec

[neomachine]

'authorise your attitudes' 😭 did evelyn's character arc just breeze past this person or

#sorry to tell you but i don't think that the moral of #'consider those around you as people and be understanding even when it seems utterly absurd' #is a ready made spoon fed platitude that pacifies #and you're frankly fucking nuts to think otherwise considering the state of things where people are obsessed with doing the opposite #dogmatically obsessed with right wing principles of violence punishment and retribution #because it feels good and symmetrical and balanced even when it absolutely fucking isn't #to embrace what seems absurd is likely going to be a selling point for more radical politics #the film was really interesting for that and people are responding in kind! sorry to be the bearer of bad news to you

[hachinanakomatsu]

The reason Farcille appeals to me as a dynamic is because it's really refreshing and unique for a fantasy series. They're two girls who found each other and became close on their own terms, not just because they like a man, or through a man. Marcille is Falin's first friend. Marcille is the only one besides her own brother, who bothered to try and reach out to Falin despite her absurdities, and try to understand her and not judge her because she's different. Falin felt she didn't belong and wasn't normal, and Marcille struggles with similar feelings.

Their bond is an important and vital aspect of the series. Laios and Marcille both wanting to save Falin after she sacrificed herself against the red dragon. Marcille having attachment issues alongside Falin and having to learn to be independent and less clingy on her. Furthered by Falin herself realising she needs time alone after being saved at the end of series as she knows she has mostly relied on Marcille and Laios her whole life. Falin wants to become her own person and find her identity outside of the both of them.

I just love how Falin and Marcille love and care for one another but also realise they were initially co dependant and try to improve themselves without each other and don't trap each other down by what they want. It's just refreshing seeing two female characters in a fantasy series have such a strong bond with each other (regardless if you see them romantic or not). That isn't just tied around their worth with men around them. It feels realistic and it's relateable.

Falin is a really personal character for me and I love the way the series handles her connection with Marcille and her brother Laios. The way it also recognises her issues and flaws through other characters and it ends with her taking control of her own life. Dungeon Meshi has so many themes which can appeal to many different types of people, it's why i started loving this series so much. It's so comforting seeing platonic, romantic, familial bonds being explored in unique, real ways.

Anyway the point of this thread was just to explain why so many people love Farcille as a dynamic. It feels natural but also a refreshing relationship between two women who love and care for one another without their worth being tied down by male characters. Falin and Marcille, Laios and Falin's sibling dynamic, Kabru and Mithrun are all really refreshing dynamics Dungeon Meshi actually takes the time to explore and develop across it's story. Not many manga really develop relationships in this way, it's why i love the series!

#falin touden #laios touden #marcille donato #farcille #falin x marcille #dungeon meshi #dunmeshi #delicious in dungeon #lesbian #sapphic #wlw #kabru #mithrun

[sarahreesbrennan]

Are all the themes in “in other lands” supposed to be a commentary on something? Or do you just like writing sex scenes between minors, age gaps, and reverse misogyny?

Genuine question.

Ohhh, my dear anon, I don't believe this is a genuine question.

But it does bring up something I've been meaning to talk about. So I'll take the bait.

Firstly. Yes, my work contains a commentary on the world around us. I wonder what I could be doing with the child soldiers being sexually active in their teens (people hook up right after battles), and the age gap relationship ending in the younger one being too mature for the elder. What could I possibly have been attempting when I said 'how absurd gender roles are, when projected onto people we haven't been accustomed by our own society to see that way'? I wasn't being subtle, that's for sure.

Secondly. Yes I do enjoy writing! I think I should, it's my life's work. Am I titillated by my own writing, no - though I think it's fine to be. The sex scenes of In Other Lands aren't especially titillating, to be honest. It is interesting to me how often people sneer at women for writing romance and sex scenes, having 'book boyfriends,' insinuating women writers fancy their own characters. Women having too much immoral fun! Whereas men clearly write about sex for high literary purposes.

… I have to say from my experience of women and men's writing, I haven't found that to be true.

I’m not in this to have an internet argument. I prefer to leave my anons open since not everyone has a tumblr, as @neil-gaiman says it’s an internet backwater, but a lovely one for those like myself who enjoy an essay about fictional characters! Still I will close my inbox to anons if I must. Mostly people use bad faith takes to poke at others from the other side of a screen for kicks. But I do know some truly internalise the attitude that writing certain things is wrong, that anyone who makes mistakes must be shunned as impure, and that is a deeply Victorian and restrictive attitude that guarantees unhappiness.

I've become increasingly troubled by the very binary and extreme ways of thinking I see arising on the internet. They come naturally from people being in echo chambers, becoming hostile to differing opinions, and the age-old conundrum of wanting to be good, fearing you aren't, and making the futile effort to be free of sin. It makes me think of Tennyson, who when travelling through Ireland at the time of the Great Famine, said nobody should talk about the 'Irish distress' to him and insisted the window shades of his carriage be shut as he went from castle to castle. So he wouldn't see the bodies. But that didn't make the bodies cease to be.

In Les Mis, Victor Hugo explores why someone might steal, what that means about them and their circumstances, and who they might be - and explores why someone else is made terribly unhappy, and endangers others, through their own too rigid adherence to judgement and condemnation without pity. The story understands both Jean Valjean the thief and Javert the policeman. Javert’s way of thinking is the one that inevitably leads to tragedy.

Depiction isn't endorsement. Depiction is discussion.

Many of my loved ones have had widely varying relationships to and experience of sex (including 'none'). They've felt all different types of ways about it. If writing about them is not permissible, I close them out. I'd much rather a dialogue be open than closed.

I do understand the urge to write what seems right to others. I've been brain-poisoned that way myself. I used to worry so much about my female characters doing the wrong things, because then they'd be justly hated! Then I noted which of my writer friends had people love their female characters the most - and it was the one who wrote their female characters as screwing up massively, making rash and sometimes wrong decisions. Who wrote them as people. Because that's what people do. That's what feels true to readers.

I want my characters to feel true to readers. I want my characters to react in messy ways to imperfect situations. I love fantasy, I love wild action and I love deep thought, and I want to engage. That's what In Other Lands is about. That's even more what Long Live Evil is about. That sexy lady who sashays in to have sexy sex with the hero - what is her deal? Someone who tricks and lies to others - why are they doing that, how did they get so skilled at it? What makes one person cruelly judgemental, and another ignore all boundaries? What makes Carmen Maria Machado describe ‘fictional queer villains’ as ‘by far the most interesting characters’? What irritates people about women having a great time? What attracts us to power, to fiction, and to transgression?

I don’t know the answers to all those questions, but I know I want to explore them. And I know one more thing.

If the moral thing to do is shut people out and shut people up? Count me among the villains.

#bookblr #discourse #in other lands #long live evil #les mis #carmen maria machado #writing

[vaspider]

In defense of retellings & reimaginings

I'm not going to respond to the post that sparked this, because honestly, I don't really feel like getting in an argument, and because it's only vaguely even about the particular story that the other post discussed. The post in question objected to retellings of the Rape of Persephone which changed important elements of the story -- specifically, Persephone's level of agency, whether she was kidnapped, whether she ate seeds out of hunger, and so on. It is permissible, according to this thesis, to 'fill in empty spaces,' but not to change story elements, because 'those were important to the original tellers.' (These are acknowledged paraphrases, and I will launch you into the sun if you nitpick this paragraph.)

I understand why to the person writing that, that perspective is important, and why they -- especially as a self-described devotee of Persephone -- feel like they should proscribe boundaries around the myth. It's a perfectly valid perspective to use when sorting -- for example -- which things you choose to read. If you choose not to read anything which changes the elements which you feel are important, I applaud you.

However, the idea that one should only 'color in missing pieces,' especially when dealing with stories as old, multi-sourced, and fractional as ancient myths, and doing so with the argument that you shouldn't change things because those base elements were important to the people who originally crafted the stories, misses -- in my opinion -- the fundamental reason we tell stories and create myths in the first place.

Forgive me as I get super fucking nerdy about this. I've spent the last several years of my life wrestling with the concept of myths as storytelling devices, universality of myths, and why myths are even important at all as part of writing on something like a dozen books (a bunch of which aren't out yet) for a game centered around mythology. A lot of the stuff I've written has had to wrestle with exactly this concept -- that there is a Sacred Canon which cannot be disrupted, and that any disregard of [specific story elements] is an inexcusable betrayal.

Myths are stories we tell ourselves to understand who we are and what's important to us as individuals, as social groups, and as a society. The elements we utilize or change, those things we choose to include and exclude when telling and retelling a story, tell us what's important to us.

I could sit down and argue over the specific details which change over the -- at minimum -- 1700 years where Persephone/Kore/Proserpina was actively worshiped in Greek and Roman mystery cults, but I actually don't think those variations in specific are very important. What I think is important, however, is both the duration of her cults -- at minimum from 1500 BCE to 200CE -- and the concept that myths are stories we tell ourselves to understand who we are and what's important to us.

The idea that there was one, or even a small handful, of things that were most important to even a large swath of the people who 'originally' told the store of the Rape of Persephone or any other 'foundational' myth of what is broadly considered 'Western Culture,' when those myths were told and retold in active cultic worship for 1700 years... that seems kind of absurd to me on its face. Do we have the same broad cultural values as the original tellers of Beowulf, which is only (heh) between 1k-1.3k years old? How different are our marital traditions, our family traditions, and even our language? We can, at best, make broad statements, and of inclusive necessity, those statements must be broad enough as to lose incredible amounts of specificity. In order to make definitive, specific statements, we must leave out large swaths of the people to whom this story, or any like it, was important.

To move away from the specific story brought up by the poster whose words spun this off, because it really isn't about that story in particular, let's use The Matter of Britain/Arthuriana as our framing for the rest of this discussion. If you ask a random nerd on Tumblr, they'd probably cite a handful of story elements as essential -- though of course which ones they find most essential undoubtedly vary from nerd to nerd -- from the concept that Camelot Always Falls to Gawain and the Green Knight, Percival and the grail, Lancelot and Guinevere...

... but Lancelot/Guinevere and Percival are from Chrétien de Troyes in the 12th century, some ~500 years after Taliesin's first verses. Lancelot doesn't appear as a main character at all before de Troyes, and we can only potentially link him to characters from an 11th century story (Culhwch and Olwen) for which we don't have any extant manuscripts before the 15th century. Gawain's various roles in his numerous appearances are... conflicting characterizations at best.

The point here is not just that 'the things you think are essential parts of the story are not necessarily original,' or that 'there are a lot of different versions of this story over the centuries,' but also 'what you think of as essential is going to come back to that first thesis statement above.' What you find important about The Matter of Britain, and which story elements you think can be altered, filed off or filled in, will depend on what that story needs to tell you about yourself and what's important to you.

Does creating a new incarnation of Arthur in which she is a diasporic lesbian in outer space ruin a story originally about Welsh national identity and chivalric love? Does that disrespect the original stories? How about if Arthur is a 13th century Italian Jew? Does it disrespect the original stories if the author draws deliberate parallels between the seduction of Igerne and the story of David and Bathsheba?

Well. That depends on what's important to you.

Insisting that the core elements of a myth -- whichever elements you believe those to be -- must remain static essentially means 'I want this myth to stagnate and die.' Maybe it's because I am Jewish, and we constantly re-evaluate every word in Torah, over and over again, every single year, or maybe it's because I spend way, way too much time thinking about what's valuable in stories specifically because I write words about these concepts for money, but I don't find these arguments compelling at all, especially not when it comes to core, 'mainstream' mythologies. These are tools in the common toolbox, and everybody has access to them.

More important to me than the idea that these core elements of any given story must remain constant is, to paraphrase Dolly Parton, that a story knows what it is and does it on purpose. Should authors present retellings or reimaginings of the Rape of Persephone or The Matter of Britain which significantly alter historically-known story elements as 'uncovered' myths or present them as 'the real and original' story? Absolutely not. If someone handed me a book in which the new Grail was a limited edition Macklemore Taco Bell Baja Blast cup and told me this comes directly from recently-discovered 6th century writings of Taliesin, I would bonk them on the head with my hardcover The Once & Future King. Of course that's not the case, right?

But the concept of canon, historically, in these foundational myths has not been anything like our concept of canon today. Canon should function like a properly-fitted corset, in that it should support, not constrict, the breath in the story's lungs. If it does otherwise, authors should feel free to discard it in part or in whole.

Concepts of familial duty and the obligation of marriage don't necessarily resonate with modern audiences the way that the concept of self-determination, subversion of unreasonable and unjustified authority, and consent do. That is not what we, as a general society, value now. If the latter values are the values important to the author -- the story that the author needs to tell in order to express who they are individually and culturally and what values are important to them* -- then of course they should retell the story with those changed values. That is the point of myths, and always has been.

Common threads remain -- many of us move away from family support regardless of the consent involved in our relationships, and life can be terrifying when you're suddenly out of the immediate reach and support of your family -- because no matter how different some values are, essential human elements remain in every story. It's scary to be away from your mother for the first time. It's scary to live with someone new, in a new place. It's intimidating to find out that other people think you have a Purpose in life that you need to fulfill. It's hard to negotiate between the needs of your birth family and your chosen family.

None of this, to be clear, is to say that any particular person should feel that they need to read, enjoy, or appreciate any particular retelling, or that it's cool, hip and groovy to misrepresent your reworking of a myth as a 'new secret truth which has always been there.' If you're reworking a myth, be truthful about it, and if somebody told you 'hey did you know that it really -- ' and you ran with that and find out later you were wrong, well, correct the record. It's okay to not want to read or to not enjoy a retelling in which Arthur, Lancelot and Guinevere negotiate a triad and live happily ever after; it's not really okay to say 'you can't do that because you changed a story element which I feel is non-negotiable.' It's okay to say 'I don't think this works because -- ' because part of writing a story is that people are going to have opinions on it. It's kind of weird to say 'you're only allowed to color inside these lines.'

That's not true, and it never has been. Greek myths are not from a closed culture. Roman myths are not sacrosanct. There are plenty of stories which outsiders should leave the hell alone, but Greek and Roman myths are simply not on that list. There is just no world in which you can make an argument that the stories of the Greek and Roman Empires are somehow not open season to the entire English-speaking world. They are the public-est of domain.

You don't have to like what people do with it, but that doesn't make people wrong for writing it, and they certainly don't have to color within the lines you or anyone else draws. Critique how they tell the story, but they haven't committed some sort of cultural treachery by telling the stories which are important to them rather than the stories important to someone 2500 years dead.

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*These are not the only reasons to tell a story and I am not in any way saying that an author is only permitted to retell a story to express their own values. There are as many reasons to tell a story as there are stories, and I don't really think any reason to create fiction is more or less valid than any other. I am discussing, specifically, the concept of myths as conveyors of essential cultural truths.