#and not just the books and the movies i remember so many posts of analysis on both books and movies | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

sideprince · 3 months

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I wrote a reply to this post but OP has deleted it and even though I should probably leave well enough alone, it got to me that I could have sworn I saw this post months ago and then realized it was actually from yesterday. This is a long reply so I'm putting it under a cut, but after I went to OP's blog and saw a post from them complaining how mean everyone was to them on this post, I replied to say I'm sorry if they got any anon hate I don't know about but otherwise none of the comments on this post were mean or hateful, they just disagreed with OP. I pointed out that this is partly because they cited non-canon events as canon, and OP immediately blocked me (this may be why I can't reblog the post even from another user, though that's not how tumblr usually works so who knows). I can't help but feel that OP's post was made in bad faith, as a result, and I've seen enough people on this hellsite who are more interested in protecting their egos than admit when they could have been approached something more thoughtfully, so I'm diving in. If you're going to say a character "is very interesting to study" while doing the exact opposite, then you'd better have the critical analysis skills and textual evidence to back it up.

I think OP has some misconceptions that are frustratingly common, and seem to stem from people not having read the books, or not read them for a long time, and conflating the movies with canon. While I mostly agree with the replies above, I want to take this opportunity to cite the text to refute some of OP's points. I often forget details from the text, but I choose to either look them up before asserting unconfirmed points as fact (Potter Search is a great tool, or you can just do a ctrl+F search if you have the books digitally), or else I usually state clearly that I'm not sure if I remember something correctly and don't have the spoons to look it up.

I saw OP say in the comments in response to someone arguing their points:

"that's your interpretation, I have mine, I think both can coexist within the material we are given."

It doesn't sit right with me that so many people think that referring to their subjective memory of what the text meant to them is the same as actually citing it and offering an explanation. OP's interpretation can't exist within the material given, because some of it doesn't exist in the material at all, and you can't interpret what isn't there. OP is essentially claiming to have done critical analysis, and although no one is required to always critique a text analytically on a tumblr post, I find it upsetting when people claim to do so while failing to cite a single source to support their argument. To me it sounds like someone trying to pass off a creative writing essay as an academic research paper, and in an age of rampant propaganda and knee-jerk reblogs that eschew critical thinking, I feel an almost compulsive need to go through OP's reply and argue it with the textual evidence they conveniently avoided, if for no other reason than to show why it's important to discern between loosely formed opinions and informed ones.

I also want to explain why I don't accept the films as canon, because while I do think that canon can exist across several mediums (such as with Good Omens, in which at least one of the writers of the text is directly involved in writing the TV series), I don't think that applies to Harry Potter because the original author was only marginally involved in the films, in only a consultant role, and had little input on the writing. The HP films are an interpretation as written from the perspective of Steve Kloves, except for OoTP, which was written by Michael Goldenberg. I've gone into it on other posts, but suffice to say these interpretations did not prioritize story and character development and were often influenced by pressure from the studio to prioritize marketing opportunities over storytelling. Important elements like foreshadowing and themes were not carried over from the text to the screen. These changes affected the storytelling significantly and left out crucial elements. This, combined with the films having been written with little to no involvement from the original author, is why I feel the films can't be taken as canon. This doesn't mean they can't be enjoyed by any means, just that they scenes that appear in the films but not in the text, or are presented differently on screen than in the text, are not a reasonable basis for character analysis.

And now, on to OP's ask:

"I think he is a very good representation of a man who felt insecure in his manhood; his male ego was permanently wounded by James' bullying and he decided to make it everyone else's problem by being the most insufferable teacher at Hogwarts."

The first thing we have to establish is that the books are told from Harry's perspective, so we have to take narrative bias into account. Calling Snape "the most insufferable teacher at Hogwarts" is a subjective statement and I can only assume it's based in Harry's biased perspective as narrator, given that he and Snape have a bad relationship from the outset. I have a brief analysis here about how Snape dislikes Harry because in their first class together he interprets Harry's ignorance of the course material as a lack of curiosity and appreciation for his gifts as a wizard, while also recognizing something of his own experiences with childhood poverty and abuse in Harry. Harry, being ignorant of these factors, just feels singled out for hate by a strict teacher, and their relationship deteriorates throughout the rest of the series, until the end of the final book.

To pull back from the narrative bias, let's look at some of the other teachers are Hogwarts:

McGonagall:

“Miss Granger, you foolish girl, how could you think of tackling a mountain troll on your own?” Hermione hung her head. Harry was speechless. Hermione was the last person to do anything against the rules, and here she was, pretending she had, to get them out of trouble. It was as if Snape had started handing out sweets. “Miss Granger, five points will be taken from Gryffindor for this,” said Professor McGonagall. “I’m very disappointed in you. If you’re not hurt at all, you’d better get off to Gryffindor Tower. Students are finishing the feast in their Houses.”

Philosopher's Stone, Ch. 10.

“I’m disgusted,” said Professor McGonagall. “Four students out of bed in one night! I’ve never heard of such a thing before! You, Miss Granger, I thought you had more sense. As for you, Mr. Potter, I thought Gryffindor meant more to you than this. All three of you will receive detentions — yes, you too, Mr. Longbottom, nothing gives you the right to walk around school at night, especially these days, it’s very dangerous — and fifty points will be taken from Gryffindor.” “Fifty?” Harry gasped — they would lose the lead, the lead he’d won in the last Quidditch match. “Fifty points each,” said Professor McGonagall, breathing heavily through her long, pointed nose.

Philosopher's Stone, Ch. 15

In just the first book we see McGonagall punish Hermione for successfully defending herself against a troll and take house points, then sends her back to her common room without getting medical attention, as if a ten year old can be responsible for assessing how badly they're hurt. A few chapters later McGonagall takes several hundred points from students in her own house (more than we see any other teacher do at one time throughout the series), and assigns the students detention on top of it. As we later see in the same chapter, the detentions aren't even served with her directly, but instead the children - again, ten years old - are sent into the Forbidden Forest at night with only Hagrid to protect them, to hunt down whatever creature is vicious and cunning enough to kill unicorns.

Although it's said that Snape favors the students in his own house, he doesn't seem to be the only one:

“Potter's been sent a broomstick, Professor,” said Malfoy quickly. “Yes, yes, that’s right,” said Professor Flitwick, beaming at Harry. “Professor McGonagall told me all about the special circumstances, Potter. And what model is it?” “A Nimbus Two Thousand, sir,” said Harry, fighting not to laugh at the look of horror on Malfoy’s face. “And it’s really thanks to Malfoy here that I’ve got it,” he added.

Philosopher's Stone, Ch. 10

Not only did McGonagall make an exception to school practices and allow Harry on his house Quidditch team despite being a first year, she used either school funds or her own (unclear) to purchase a first-rate broom for him. We know the school has brooms, as first years are not allowed their own and they are provided for flying lessons, and because “Harry had heard Fred and George Weasley complain about the school brooms” (PS ch. 9). And yet, McGonagall ensures Harry has his own broom, and an expensive one, new enough to be the show model in a shop window in Diagon Alley a few months earlier:

“Several boys of about Harry’s age had their noses pressed against a window with broomsticks in it. ‘Look,’ Harry heard one of them say, ‘the new Nimbus Two Thousand - fastest ever -”

-Philosopher's Stone, Ch. 5

If we're discussing which teachers are Hogwarts are the most "insufferable" then we also have to talk about Hagrid, who might mean well and be affectionate, but is also irresponsible and dangerous.

In Philosopher's Stone, Hagrid:

Punishes Dudley, a child, for his parents' offenses, the final straw being his father insulting Dumbledore (Ch. 4). While Hagrid acknowledges that he shouldn't have lost his temper, he also admits that his intention had been to turn Dudley fully into a pig.

Hatches a dragon in his cabin (Ch. 14), tries to raise it illegally and against the animal's need of care, and Harry, Ron, and Hermione (again, ten year olds) have to fix the situation and get Ron's brother to find some friends to take the dragon away safely and prevent Hagrid losing his job (Ch. 14). In the process Hagrid endangers himself as well as the children, and it's because of this that McGonagall gives them detention and deducts hundreds of house points. Hagrid not only allows the children to endanger themselves for his sake, but to be punished and subsequently ostracized by their peers also for his sake.

The reason he even has a dragon is, as we find out in Ch. 16, because he was foolish enough to accept it from a faceless stranger in exchange for unwittingly divulging the secret to getting past the three headed dog guarding the Philosopher's Stone (and the stranger later turns out to be Quirrel/Voldemort).

In Prisoner of Azkaban, Hagrid:

Starts his first lesson with a volatile creature (Ch. 6) and, although Malfoy acted irresponsibly, Hagrid was nevertheless the teacher and responsible for providing course material consistent with the experience level and maturity of his students' age.

Gets drunk and has to be taken care of by Harry, Ron, and Hermione (again, children) (Ch. 6)

Skipping ahead to Order of the Phoenix ch. 30, we find out Hagrid

Compromised his return from the mission Dumbledore sent him on by bringing a giant back to England.

Brought said giant into the school grounds and left him in the Forbidden Forest.

Asks Harry and Hermione (still children) to look after him if Hagrid is sacked.

Although Hagrid means well, his actions are consistently thoughtless and irresponsible, requiring those around him - often Harry, Ron, and Hermione - to fix the damage he causes. Although I think it remains subjective which teacher at Hogwarts is the "most insufferable" I think Hagrid is a strong enough candidate to qualify OP's interpretation of Snape holding that title as extremely contestable. Of course, since the books are presented through the lens of Harry's narrative bias, and he's fond of Hagrid, respects McGonagall, and dislikes Snape, an uncritical reading could lead one to OP's conclusions. However, a more objective analysis of the text shows that many teachers at Hogwarts are strict, punitive, biased, and wreak havoc on students in ways that make the Snape's actions look fairly tame, or at least the norm. And this is excluding an analysis of various DADA professors like Lockhart and Crouch/Moody, who were insufferable in their own rights (Lockhart was smarmy and dishonest to the point it risked students' lives; Crouch/Moodly transfigured a child into a ferret and humiliated him with torture as a disciplinary measure and deliberately triggered Neville's trauma in class).

OP continues their reply to say:

Add to this that he is a halfblood and only his mother was around, iirc?

They don't recall correctly. Snape, whose father was a muggle and whose mother was a witch, was indeed a half-blood (as is evidenced by him being revealed to be the Half-Blood Prince - I assume I don't need to cite a source as this is a pretty well-known fact and the literal title of an entire HP book, but should you need a reference it's in Ch. 28 of HBP). Both his parents were around in his childhood:

Snape staggered - his wand flew upwards, away from Harry - and suddenly Harry’s mind was teeming with memories that were not his: a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small dark-haired boy cried in a corner …

-Order of the Phoenix, Ch. 26

‘How are things at your house?’ Lily asked. A little crease appeared between his eyes. ‘Fine,’ he said. ‘They’re not arguing any more?’ ‘Oh, yes, they’re arguing,’ said Snape. He picked up a fistful of leaves and began tearing them apart, apparently unaware of what he was doing. ‘But it won’t be that long and I’ll be gone.’ ‘Doesn’t your dad like magic?’ ‘He doesn’t like anything, much,’ said Snape.

-Deathly Hallows, Ch. 33

We know that Snape's father was around because he's mentioned both in Snape's memories in OoTP that Harry accidentally invades during an Occlumency lesson, and when we see in Snape's memories that he gives Harry as he dies. Lily asks about his home life by referring to both his parents, implying that his dad is a consistent presence at home. We also know from JK Rowling that Snape's father "didn't hold back when it came to the whip" but this is supplementary and not mentioned in canon, so I don't expect anyone to refer to it when analyzing the text, I'm just adding it as bonus material.

Continuing on with OP's reply:

Snape, Voldemort and Harry all act like foils of each other in that sense, but whereas Voldemort fixated on his blood status as the main reason for his insecurities, Snape fixated on Lily.

So much to unpack here. Firstly, all of this should be backed up by examples from the text, as they are subjective readings that have significant bearing on character analysis.

Snape, Harry, and Voldemort don't act like foils of each other. For one thing, a character doesn't act like a foil, a character either is or isn't one. That being said, I don't know OP's background and there could be a language barrier because English isn't everyone's first language, I'm just being pedantic. Even with that in mind, the statement remains incorrect. A foil is a literary device - a character who contrasts with another character, often with the protagonist. It is not a choice a character makes or an action they take.

In Philosopher's Stone Snape is set up as a foil to Harry in order to misdirect the reader from suspecting the real villain, Quirrel/Voldemort. Snape is presented as secretive, sneaky, and nefarious, contrasting Harry's role as a protagonist who is outspoken, honest, and brave. As the series progresses, Snape, along with Voldemort, are eventually shown to have more parallels than contrasts with Harry. Snape and Voldemort were born into muggle poverty, and although Harry was raised in a middle class home by the Dursleys, they thrust poverty and neglect onto him in a way that parallels his childhood of neglect and want with that of Snape and Voldemort. Snape's father was abusive, as was Harry's guardian, Vernon Dursley. Harry, Voldemort, and Snape all had traumatic experiences growing up in muggle environments. If anything, Snape and Voldemort might be foils to Harry in that they both harbored resentment for their muggle fathers in ways that signified the separation between the wizarding and muggle world, while Harry's experiences with the Dursleys didn't color his image of muggles in a comparable way.

The contrast between Harry, Snape, and Voldemort is in the way each of them deals with their trauma. As Dumbledore says:

"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."

-Chamber of Secrets, Ch. 18

This becomes one of the overarching themes of the HP series, Harry, Snape, and Voldemort are all examples of how their choices took them to such different places in life from their comparable childhoods.

At school Voldemort was a handsome boy with talent, intelligence, and the recommendations of his teachers, but he chose to pursue power instead of success:

“He reached the seventh year of his schooling with, as you might have expected, top grades in every examination he had taken. All around him, his classmates were deciding which jobs they were to pursue once they had left Hogwarts. Nearly everybody expected spectacular things from Tom Riddle, prefect, Head Boy, winner of the Special Award for Services to the School. I know that several teachers, Professor Slughorn amongst them, suggested that he join the Ministry of Magic, offered to set up appointments, put him in touch with useful contacts. He refused all offers. The next thing the staff knew, Voldemort was working at Borgin and Burkes.”

Half-Blood Prince, Ch. 20

Snape chose to become a Death Eater for reasons we can only assume. We know he was in Slytherin during an era when Voldemort was in power and many of his allies had children in Slytherin house. At least two of Snape's dorm-mates, Mulciber and Avery, are canonically acknowledged to have become Death Eaters (both are present at the Ministry when Harry and his friends fight the Death Eaters in the Department of Mysteries in OoTP Ch. 35). It's unclear whether Snape chose to become a Death Eater out of admiration for them or out of peer pressure, or perhaps a lack of other options, while at school:

'… thought we were supposed to be friends?’ Snape was saying. ‘Best friends?’ ‘We are, Sev, but I don’t like some of the people you’re hanging around with! I’m sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber! What do you see in him, Sev? He’s creepy! D’you know what he tried to do to Mary Macdonald the other day?’ Lily had reached a pillar and leaned against it, looking up into the thin, sallow face. ‘That was nothing,’ said Snape. ‘It was a laugh, that’s all -‘ ‘It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny -‘ ‘What about the stuff Potter and his mates get up to?’ demanded Snape. His colour rose again as he said it, unable, it seemed, to hold in his resentment.

-Deathly Hallows, Ch. 33

It's unclear what Snape thinks of Avery and Mulciber, as his reply to Lily is downplaying but doesn't defend their actions. We see Snape's indecisiveness later in the argument he has with Lily after he calls her a Mudblood:

'It’s too late. I’ve made excuses for you for years. None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you. You and your precious little Death Eater friends - you see, you don’t even deny it! You don’t even deny that’s what you’re all aiming to be! You can’t wait to join You-Know-Who, can you?’ He opened his mouth, but closed it without speaking. ‘I can’t pretend any more. You’ve chosen your way, I’ve chosen mine.’ ‘No - listen, I didn’t mean -‘ ‘- to call me Mudblood? But you call everyone of my birth Mudblood, Severus. Why should I be any different?'

-Deathly Hallows, Ch. 33

Although Snape does ultimately choose to become a Death Eater, we see in his reply to Lily about both Avery and Mulciber and later her assumption that they all want to become Death Eaters that Snape doesn't argue for or against her accusations, but instead is evasive and unsure of himself. He opens his mouth to speak when she accuses him of wanting to become a Death Eater, but then closes it again without saying anything - he can neither argue against her point, nor state clearly, let alone with any kind of conviction, that this is indeed his ambition. It can be argued that it's the passivity of his choice that lands him with a Dark Mark on his arm, and it's the active choice he makes to risk his life in order to defect from Voldemort's ranks and turn spy that defines his character and without which Harry could not have defeated Voldemort.

Harry, as the protagonist, is also significantly defined by the theme of choice:

'But, sir,’ said Harry, making valiant efforts not to sound argumentative, ‘it all comes to the same thing, doesn’t it? I’ve got to try and kill him, or -‘ ‘Got to?’ said Dumbledore. ‘Of course you’ve got to! But not because of the prophecy! Because you, yourself, will never rest until you’ve tried! We both know it! Imagine, please, just for a moment, that you had never heard that prophecy! How would you feel about Voldemort now? Think!’ Harry watched Dumbledore striding up and down in front of him, and thought. He thought of his mother, his father and Sirius. He thought of Cedric Diggory. He thought of all the terrible deeds he knew Lord Voldemort had done. A flame seemed to leap inside his chest, searing his throat. ‘I’d want him finished,’ said Harry quietly. ‘And I’d want to do it.’ ‘Of course you would!’ cried Dumbledore. ‘You see, the prophecy does not mean you have to do anything! But the prophecy caused Lord Voldemort to mark you as his equal … in other words, you are free to choose your way, quite free to turn your back on the prophecy! But Voldemort continues to set store by the prophecy. He will continue to hunt you … which makes it certain, really, that -' ‘That one of us is going to end up killing the other,’ said Harry. ‘Yes.'

-Half-Blood Prince, Ch. 33

There's a clear point made by the author through Dumbledore as her proxy here, that choice is what matters, not fate. It's Harry's choices that make him the person he is and lead him to eventually defeat Voldemort. While Snape, Voldemort, and Harry all can be contrasted through the lens of their choices, this does not make them foils, as it is the the theme of choice and how it is exemplified by each character that makes them unique, but their experiences and many of their character traits (boldness, bravery, a personal sense of conviction) that make them parallels of one another. Each of them occupies their own place on the spectrum between the light and dark that the series establishes, Voldemort at the dark end, Harry at the light, and Snape in the grey area between them.

OP goes on to say:

His character is all about male entitlement, he was obsessed with her at Hogwarts and then showed to have no boundaries as he went into her house to cradle her dead body in front of her traumatized kid.

There's a lot to unpack here, and it's particularly challenging because you can't provide textual evidence for something that didn't happen in the text. After the above scene from Ch. 33 of DH in which Lily ends her friendship with Snape, we never see them interact again:

'No - listen, I didn’t mean -‘ ‘- to call me Mudblood? But you call everyone of my birth Mudblood, Severus. Why should I be any different?’ He struggled on the verge of speech, but with a contemptuous look she turned and climbed back through the portrait hole … The corridor dissolved, and the scene took a little longer to reform: Harry seemed to fly through shifting shapes and colours until his surroundings solidified again and he stood on a hilltop, forlorn and cold in the darkness, the wind whistling through the branches of a few leafless trees. The adult Snape was panting, turning on the spot, his wand gripped tightly in his hand, waiting for something or for someone …'

-Deathly Hallows, Ch. 33

The scene in the corridor in front of Gryffindor Tower between a fifth year Snape and Lily leads directly into the scene where Snape begs Dumbledore to protect the Potters (which I wrote an analysis of a few months ago but is too long a subject to derail this post for). We see no more interactions between Snape and Lily, and therefore there is no canonical support for the idea that Snape behaved obsessively or failed to respect her boundaries.

There's also no mention of Snape going to Godric's Hollow at all after her death. Snape holding Lily's dead body is only shown in the film version of Deathly Hallows, and as mentioned, the films are not canon. That moment doesn't exist in the text and can't be considered in an analysis of Snape's character. The scene on the hilltop leads directly into the scene of Snape crying in Dumbledore's office:

The hilltop faded, and Harry stood in Dumbledore’s office, and something was making a terrible sound, like a wounded animal. Snape was slumped forwards in a chair and Dumbledore was standing over him, looking grim. After a moment or two, Snape raised his face, and he looked like a man who had lived a hundred years of misery since leaving the wild hilltop. ‘I thought … you were going … to keep her … safe …’ ‘She and James put their faith in the wrong person,’ said Dumbledore. ‘Rather like you, Severus. Weren’t you hoping that Lord Voldemort would spare her?’ Snape’s breathing was shallow.

-Deathly Hallows, Ch. 33

This is the only depiction of Snape immediately following the Potters' deaths. The scene of him cradling Lily's dead body was Steve Kloves' invention and has no basis in canon. If anything, Snape's actions in canon can be interpreted to show that he respected the boundaries Lily set, and that even when her life was at risk he chose to go to Dumbledore - who he thought might kill him on sight - rather than talk to her directly after she ended their friendship. In addition, in all the information the text gives about the night Voldemort fell in Godric's Hollow and Hagrid collected Harry to take him to Privet Drive, there's no mention of Snape whatsoever.

There isn't much in the text to support the interpretation that Snape exemplified male entitlement either. So far we've seen him being as strict, if not milder, than other teachers at the school, his favoritism is also comparable to that of other teachers - implying it's more of a norm than an example of entitlement - and there are no canonical examples to support the argument that he was obsessed with Lily or violated her boundaries. Snape struggles to argue with Lily when she accuses and berates him, and the usual markers of patriarchal entitlement - silencing women, gaslighting, dismissing women's opinions, talking over them - are all nowhere to be found in any of their interactions. The only time we see him lash out at Lily is when he calls her Mudblood (OoTP Ch. 28) which, while inexcusable, he does under traumatic duress, and is not indicative of his usual interactions with her, as exemplified by the fact that she ends their friendship over it. As cited before:

'No - listen, I didn’t mean -‘ ‘- to call me Mudblood? But you call everyone of my birth Mudblood, Severus. Why should I be any different?’

There's a clear implication that Snape has never called her this before. An argument can also be made that it speaks volumes of Lily's own biases, or perhaps her own affection for Snape (who, not long before this, was still her best friend), that she excused this behavior from him when it was directed at others, and only took issue with it when it was directed at herself. That, combined with Lily's own acknowledgment that they were "best friends" shows that Snape's relationship with her was a balanced, consensual one even when it became strained, up until their friendship ended.

Continuing with OP's points:

He only saw Lily as a trophy to be possessed, which you can see from the way he hated Harry, because Harry reminded him Lily wasn't his and that Lily had sex with another man.

There's no support for this in the text anywhere and is pure conjecture. I can appreciate it being OP's headcanon, but it's certainly not a result of studying the text and relying on it to form opinions, but rather seems to be OP projecting pre-conceived notions onto Snape as a character and trying to find justification for it. I've written a whole post extrapolating Snape's first class with Harry, but the tl;dr is that Snape, who grew up in muggle poverty and knew Aunt Petunia enough to guess that Harry didn't fare well in her care when he showed up at school bearing signs of neglect, likely expected Harry to have the same hunger for learning that he himself did at Harry's age. Instead, Harry couldn't answer a single one of his questions and showed no curiosity or enthusiasm towards being a wizard as far as Snape could tell.

Nevertheless, even though Snape did seem to dislike Harry, hate is an awful strong word given that it is revealed at the end of Deathly Hallows that Snape has risked his own life to protect him. This isn't particularly surprising when you consider that this goal was established as early as Philosopher's Stone, when Snape protected him, which Harry initially interpreted as Snape trying to kill him:

Harry couldn’t take it in. This couldn’t be true, it couldn’t. ‘But Snape tried to kill me!’ ‘No, no, no. I tried to kill you. Your friend Miss Granger accidentally knocked me over as she rushed to set fire to Snape at that Quidditch match. She broke my eye contact with you. Another few seconds and I’d have got you off that broom. I’d have managed it before then if Snape hadn’t been muttering a counter-curse, trying to save you.’ ‘Snape was trying to save me?’ ‘Of course,’ said Quirrell coolly. -Philosopher's Stone, Ch. 17

Again, the story is told through the lens of Harry's bias, but that doesn't mean his opinions of Snape reflect Snape's character. As another example, there's an implication in OoTP that Snape, having seen some of the Dursleys' abuse of Harry through his memories during Occlumency lessons, passed this information on in an effort to protect Harry, and that this is the reason why several Order members (Arthur Weasley and Moody in particular) show up at King's Cross at the end of the schoolyear and threaten the Dursleys to stop mistreating him. There seems to be no other explanation in the text for why these adults are suddenly aware of the abuse Harry experiences, except that Snape, who was abused as a child himself, and who is an Order member himself, is the only adult in the series who we see witness Harry's mistreatement firsthand. At no point in the narrative do we see Harry complain about the Dursleys to the adults he trusts or ask them for help, merely to spend his holidays away from them without explanation.

While Snape did indeed dislike Harry and often compared him to his father, his dislike for James had much more significant roots in bullying and trauma than in his concern for Lily's relationship with him. It's established in canon that James Potter and Sirius Black dislike Snape from the outset (as in the scene on the Hogwarts Express in DH Ch. 33). In their fifth year, Sirius - annoyed that Snape is so curious about where Lupin goes each month - tricks Snape into following the tunnel under the Whomping Willow to the Shrieking Shack, as Lupin tells Harry:

'Professor Snape was at school with us. ... Sirius here played a trick on him which nearly killed him, a trick which involved me -‘ Black made a derisive noise. ‘It served him right,’ he sneered. ‘Sneaking around, trying to find out what we were up to … hoping he could get us expelled …' 'Severus was very interested in where I went every month,’ Lupin told Harry, Ron and Hermione. ‘We were in the same year, you know, and we - er - didn’t like each other very much. He especially disliked James. Jealous, I think, of James’s talent on the Quidditch pitch … anyway, Snape had seen me crossing the grounds with Madam Pomfrey one evening as she led me towards the Whomping Willow to transform. Sirius thought it would be - er - amusing, to tell Snape all he had to do was prod the knot on the tree-trunk with a long stick, and he’d be able to get in after me. Well, of course, Snape tried it - if he’d got as far as this house, he’d have met a fully grown werewolf - but your father, who’d heard what Sirius had done, went after Snape and pulled him back, at great risk to his life … Snape glimpsed me, though, at the end of the tunnel. He was forbidden to tell anybody by Dumbledore, but from that time on he knew what I was …'

-Prisoner of Azkaban, Ch. 18

From this we can deduce that Sirius intended for Snape to die, or at least get severely injured, and that even as a grown adult Sirius doesn't regret trying to mete out this punishment to him as retaliation for curiosity. We can also deduce that Lupin was unaware of Sirius' intention and did not consent to be used as a weapon. For his part, Snape never did reveal that Lupin was a werewolf while at school, or even during that school year, until after Lupin ran amok on Hogwarts grounds, endangering others' lives, including Harry's.

There are other meta posts that go into Lupin's insecurities and vulnerabilities, but in short, he was grateful just to be allowed into the school as a student, let alone to have friends, and was in no position to challenge James and Sirius. Even as a prefect he didn't curb their behavior, as we see when he allows James to bully Snape later that year after their O.W.L.s:

'Leave him alone,’ Lily repeated. She was looking at James with every sign of great dislike. ‘What’s he done to you?’ ‘Well,’ said James, appearing to deliberate the point, ‘it’s more the fact that he exists, if you know what I mean …’ Many of the surrounding students laughed, Sirius and Wormtail included, but Lupin, still apparently intent on his book, didn’t, and nor did Lily. ‘You think you’re funny,’ she said coldly. ‘But you’re just an arrogant, bullying toerag, Potter. Leave him alone.’ ‘I will if you go out with me, Evans,’ said James quickly. ‘Go on … go out with me and I’ll never lay a wand on old Snivelly again.'

-Order of the Phoenix, Ch. 28

James acknowledges that he has no real reason to bully Snape and uses violence as a bargaining chip to coerce Lily into going out with him (James' behavior reflects much more entitlement than Snape's, in my opinion). He also chokes Snape with a bar of soap and then assaults him by dangling him upside down and removing his trousers (threatening to remove his underwear but we don't see it happen).

Lily herself refers to James as arrogant, and it's this trait, along with the trauma from James' bullying of him, that Snape perceives in Harry. He doesn't resent Harry for looking like his father because it reminds him that Lily had sex with another man, he resents him for it because of all the trauma James inflicted on him. The conflict-laden relationship between Snape and the Marauders is a significant driver of the story through several of the books and OP seems subjective to the point of being problematic in ignoring it completely and instead focusing Snape's dislike of Harry onto an invented idea of sexual jealousy that doesn't exist in the text.

It's never stated whether Snape had romantic feelings for Lily, or vice versa, only that they were friends. The closest we see to a hint of this is when “The intensity of his [Snape's] gaze made her [Lily] blush," or when “The moment she [Lily] had insulted James Potter, his [Snape's] whole body had relaxed, and as they walked away there was a new spring in Snape’s step …”

Lily's blush could be interpreted as implying she was attracted to him, or conversely that she didn't and felt awkward thinking he might be attracted to her. Similarly, Snape's relief at her insulting James can be interpreted as indicative of his attraction to her, or of him simply being worried about a friend hanging out with people he perceived as dangerous and was relieved to learn she wasn't putting herself in the way of danger by becoming friends with them. Although JK Rowling has said that her intention was for Snape's affections towards Lily to be romantic, and that she may have returned his affection had he not chosen the path he did, this is - like the note about Snape's father whipping him - extratextual and more of an interesting fact than a bit of canon to be extrapolated from the text.

Finally, OP says:

His interest in the Death Eaters was only secondary to his obsession with Lily and I think Lily rejecting him pushed him toward joining the Death Eaters, because, once again, his male ego was bruised and he needed to replace it with something else.

We've already seen that Snape's interest in joining the Death Eaters was a big part of Lily's reason for ending their friendship. Therefore, logically, Lily's decision didn't push him towards becoming a Death Eater, but rather isolated him from having any support system outside of the DEs. She didn't reject him, because rejection is the refusal or dismissal of another person's advances or proposal. They were friends, meaning they had a mutually consensual platonic relationship. Lily therefore didn't reject Snape, she ended their friendship and, as already stated, nothing in canon implies he didn't respect her boundaries.

As we have also seen in canon, Snape was bullied at school and had, at best, a neglectful and dysfunctional home environment in his childhood. In addition, he shared a dorm with students actively interested in becoming Death Eaters, and his one social lifeline away from them was cut off when he called Lily a Mudblood. What OP interprets as Snape's male ego being bruised is actually a much more complex set of social and emotional factors being described throughout the series to eventually reveal the profile of a character - young Snape - who was a vulnerable youth primed for radicalization by a violent faction of zealots. Although the enforcement and upholding of patriarchal norms is often a huge element of these kinds of social movements, that didn't seem to be the driving force for Snape based on everything we learn about his character. Instead, what we see is a boy who comes from abuse, lives in abuse at school, who loses all the support systems that might give him an alternative to the fascist cult he's being radicalized into which - if it's like most hate groups - would have been more than welcome to both take him in and help him cut his ties to anyone else in his life he might escape from them to.

It also goes against the argument that Snape was sexually obsessed with Lily that he continued to risk his life in order to protect her son an defeat her murderer for almost two decades after her death. He knew it would neither bring her back from the dead nor bring about forgiveness, and it goes without saying that sex was no longer an option. Framing Snape's motivation as obsession dismisses the realities of the complex and meaningful relationship we form as people, and the lasting, transformative influence we can have on each other, which is what Snape and Lily's story illustrates.

Finally, OP concludes with:

He remained mysterious up till the end and his back-and-forth with treason was very compelling to read about. So I hate him (as a "person") but he is such a good character narrative-wise and he is very interesting to study

OP openly admits to hating Snape, ie. having a bias against him, while stating he is "interesting to study" - except no part of their answer has shown that they've actually done so. Their arguments are unsupported in several ways, one being that they don't offer any evidence, and the other being that none can be found in the source text. What's ironic is that OP seems to resent Snape's subjective bias against Harry (and misinterpret his reasons for it in baseless ways) while also showing the exact same kind of bias against Snape themselves. You don't have to like a character by any means, but claiming that the kind of unfounded, superficial, and unsupported opinions that OP stated in their response have a basis in any kind of study of his character is ludicrous and an insult to the intelligence of anyone reading it.

#long post #I'd say sorry to OP for ripping into their post like this but they think people disagreeing with them politely is mean and hateful so #but yeah sorry not sorry when your argument is so unfounded that it can be shredded with an entire cited essay then maybe #reconsider the claim that your opinions have any basis in study #and look I don't think OP is stupid by any means I think they knew exactly what they were doing and that's why I decided to argue them #even if they won't see it #I usually don't tend to argue with haters and prefer to spend my allotted hellsite time delving into meta but this one got to me

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aroanthy · 4 months

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thinking about kanae and her relationship with her parents and akio and his relationship with her parents and just like…. ideas about patriarchs and fathers and family in utena. and incest obviously. you know there’s something so horrifying about kanae’s situation, beyond the obvious fact that she’s not yet graduated high school and she’s being married off to a child predator who is using their relationship to levy more power over more children. and her mum. and the fact that we don’t ever SEE her dad. fathers in utena have, shall we say, the worst track record in the book. i have so many things that i want to say about representations of Adult Men in rgu and specifically representations of fathers but it all circles back to their absence and imitation.

like, okay. i think the only (non-silhouetted, ie Actual Flesh) father we see is miki’s, and even then we don’t see his face. similarly we don’t see kanae’s mum’ face though she too is a Flesh Parent. don’t even get me started on how the only two visual representation of utena’s parents are their coffins and graves. also don’t get me started on that One shot from episode 10 that i use in all of my amvs of the silhouetted kiryuu parents because as you can probably tell from my heavy use of it in my amvs, i find it a deeply fascinating shot. swagever. all of this is to say, dads are not In The Flesh in utena.

im excluding the movie from this discussion bc whilst im a diehard aou lover and would never normally eclipse it from my analysis like this, the choices it makes in representing touga’s father break with rgu’s typical stylistic choices in a way that i honestly think is less effective. that whole sequence is incredibly visually rich in every other way and includes symbology that is some of the most compelling in all of rgu, imho, but it’s like. gahhh. i know it’s an active choice to represent him as Just A Guy, and you could argue ‘well akio’s Just A Guy’ but it’s. it just irritates me. i don’t think it’s meaningful in the way that utena likes to be meaningful. id argue that seeing his face doesn’t contribute anything, but idk maybe i just don’t like looking at his horrible face. it’s probably just that but also im right it’s a lacking stylistic choice

rambling side note aside, i get to my actual point that i technically already alluded to: akio. akio’s not a dad but akio is positioned as a (pseudo?)father figure to (checks notes) anthy, utena, kanae (hey remember she’s what started this post lol), touga, id throw nanami in, you could probably make a tangential argument for miki and kozue, ruka’s an interesting one, and mikage (maybe??). this is for a couple of reasons. he’s the (acting) chairman of the school that all the characters i just listed attend, he’s the guardian/caregiver for three or four of them, and, fundamentally, he guides and governs their lives to the best of his ability (not in the sense that he’s trying really hard to raise these kids, in the sense that he’s trying to control them. lol). BUT. crucially. he is an approximation of a father, an imitation of the patriarch, even and especially to anthy.

why does this matter? well, funnily(?) enough it circles back to why i dislike aou’s choice to portray touga’s father as A Guy. the powerful men in ohtori— and when i say ‘powerful’ here, i specifically mean men who are not marginalised, men who are not racialised, men who come from money and have never had to reach the top of the tower, rather always resided at its summit— are not seen by us. akio is the acting chairman, the acting father, the stand-in who stood up for something that is altogether worse than him, that made him who he is in such an insidious way. and i just think that’s really fucking interesting to think about wrt his status as a brown man, being racialised, being The Thing That We See when everything else— the inappropriate vice principal, miki’s piano teacher, mr ohtori, mr kiryuu (anime version), even off-hand dialogue from shadow girls about adult men in positions of power like mr judge (papa! daddy! god!!)— is obfuscated and implied. and i don’t want to suggest that that’s an intentional commentary on the racist mythologising of brown and black men as innately sexually violent, because. It’s Not. and utena massively drops the ball wrt race, but because of that lack of explicit, intentional commentary, it creates this strange dynamic between akio, the only racialised man in the show, and Every Other Guy. and that’s a very long-winded way of saying ‘maybe poisoning mr ohtori was a good thing actually’

#it’s late and im rambling so if this doesn’t make sense i am sorry #i should really start compiling good rgu posts about race bc most of what i say on it is just reiterating what other people have said #and i want everyone to look at those like seven posts bc i think they’re so damn interesting and insightful #anyway. it’s my sideblog it doesn’t have to be perfectly articulated etc etc #csa mention #incest mention #obfuscation abventures #dais.txt

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person4924 · 1 year

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new about me

my name is sam !! thats basically all u need to know but theres (a lot) more under the cut!!

im a lesbian (???) and ace

they/she (this is my pronouns page)

im probably genderfluid so u can really use any idc

i’m neurodivergent of some sort (i don’t even know anymore)

a minor (don’t be weird)

my personality type is INFP-T

my theme will change like weekly prob bc i wanna change it with every new huperfxation i have!!

things i like (the things bolder r what i talk about the most)

harry potter (fuck jkr)

marvel

the marauders

boy meets world

osemanverse

paper girls

teen wolf

owl house

shameless

glee

stranger things

friends

andi mack

the last of us (i’ve only watched the show tho, but i know most of what happens in the games)

riordanverse

musicals

poetry

reading

cats

animals

fictional characters

music

movies

tv shows

art

writing

women

sitcoms

brooklyn nine nine

new girl

hamilton

grishaverse

stand up comedians

ocean animals (specifically sharks)

community

moths (and just kinda winged bugs in general)

greek mythology

dawsons creek

bojack horseman

halloween

the sky (like stars, the moon, the sunset, etc)

jelly fish

criminal minds

animals

ted lasso

scooby doo (the older movies from the 2000’s ish specifically but all of it too)

everything sucks!

the sun bearer trials

atypical

octonauts

spencer reid

bo burnham

dead boy detectives

my fav movies are tick tick boom, my girl, dead poets society, breakfast club, the outsiders, hamilton, stand by me, cmbyn, lady bird, beautiful boy, luca, nimona, (500) days of summer etc.

musicals i like are hamilton, tick tick boom and the greatest showman

my fav taylor albums are folklore, evermore, reputation, 1989 and speak now but i love all of them really (please please ask me abt them omg)

my current hyper fixation is the marauders (more of a life-long obsession atp) and criminal minds and dead boy detectives. my soul is being torn apart.

i’m currently reading the extraordinaries

my fav music people (i’m really just giving a short list of many): conan gray, cavetown, current joys, queen, rainbow kitten surprise, the front bottoms, harry styles, noah kahan, taylor swift, phoebe bridgers, the fray, coldplay, olivia rodrigo, billie eilish, boygenius, gracie abrams, sufjan stevens, maya hawke, the smiths, lucy dacus, julien baker, the smiths, sleeping at last, mitski

i mostly post about whatever hyperfixation and/or character/person has overtaken my brain, music and analysis things

i appreciate tone tags and i try to use them as much as possible

i’m always looking to talk to more people and i’m always bored (don’t be weird istg)

my fav books are any alice oseman book, the outsiders, the perks of being a wallflower, i fell in love with hope

child of athena (i think) and a ravenclaw

biggest pandalily shipper you’ll find

i love love love making character analysis’ or song or movie or tv show or books or ships or whatever

i also write sometimes!! (i suck ass)

and i’m person4924 on ao3 but i can’t figure out how to link it

this is my spotify (i have the best music taste in the history of human kind btw)

this is my discord (in case of KOSA or if it’s just easier to talk on there)

this is my airbuds idk if anyone actually uses it but i thought it’d be fun to share music with mooties

please please please send me asks i have no hobbies or friends and im always bored please please please (im on my hands and knees begging please please please)

i have a tagging system!! idk how much ill remember to use it but yeah!! (its also new so only my new posts will have them) #sam shut the fuck up -> rants/yapping #asks!!! -> asks #polls!!! -> polls #crazy? i was crazy once... -> headcanons for characters/analyis things

#about me

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zerodaze · 26 days

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ZeroDaze Intro Post

Helllooo... I go by many names so just address me as Habit, Liam or Cal.

Im a 21 year old and I really like history, psychology, anthropology and linguistics. I did 2 1/2 years of college in Anthropology and Psychology but I'm taking a break to pursue my hobbies and work. - Im schizophrenic and autistic and I tend to yap a lot.

Movies i like include Elephant 2003, Zero Day, Donnie Darko, Red Dawn, American Psycho... theres more but I cant remember. I also like a ton of books! My favorite series include EMH, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Supernatural, The Walking Dead, Dexter, and Outer Banks.

Uhh i dont consider myself as a member of the t/cc. I dont mind if you guys interact but please know i really care about media literacy and consuming things critically.

I love to write characters analysis posts + I just really like analyzing media in general <\3 a lot of what i'll post here will be my thoughts on things from a literary analysis perspective.

anyway thanks for reading !!

#Admin post #intro post #intro pin

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mindmeltonabun-blog · 5 months

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My Demon: Theories and Analysis for Eps 1-6

Hi Readers!

Let me start this post by saying what I originally wrote was just deleted after I hit the "save draft" button on Tumblr. I'm so pissed because I had spent hours working on this post!! For those who have followed my blog for a very long time, you know I usually provide a very in-depth analysis of dramas.

Given what just happened and time constraints, I will keep this post very short. I may make mini posts next week to further elaborate on some points discussed here, but it just depends on if I have the time.

If you have any questions, please feel free to hit the "ask me anything" button and I will try my best to answer them promptly. I hope "My Demon" fandom won't be as toxic as the "Alchemy of Souls" fandom and misuse the "ask me anything" button to send me death threats or insults. If you don't like what I write, you can simply scroll along. The end. Also, don't plagiarize my shit. This was a huge issue during AOS and I really didn't appreciate it at all. If you want to use my ideas, give me credit for them.

Ok, let’s put on our thinking caps. Time to analyze and theorize!

Demons

In the context of this show, “demons” are individuals who used to be human but are now forced to fulfill human wishes in order to keep on living forever. The terms are simple: humans get their deepest desires fulfilled but will die in 10 years and go to hell. For demons, as long as they sign new contracts and collect souls, they won’t combust and be wiped from existence. It remains unknown how often demons must sign contracts/collect souls before they start to combust. Before demons were loan sharks, they were guardians of humans.

We start this drama with Jeong Gu Won, who has lived happily for the last 200 yrs as a demon. Gu Won has no recollection of his human life. We don’t know if this aspect of Gu Won is something present in all demons or just him. Gu Won’s perfect little world is turned upside down after he saves Do Do Hee from Rash Dude aka Jeffrey Dahmer. Now, we don’t know why his tattoo was transferred to Do Hee but it’s implied the full moon and water had something to do with it. If you have read other posts of mine, you will know that when there’s a full moon it usually means a transformation and a new start. The whole falling into the water could be viewed as a sort of baptism, symbolizing the end of an old life and the beginning of a new life. I feel like before this show ends, Gu Won and Do Hee will end up in the water under the full moon again to symbolize Gu Won’s full transformation into a human. Like right now he’s like a quasi-demon haha. His transformation into a full human is currently ongoing. I think that as he starts to develop more human emotions/remember his human memories, his powers as a demon will begin to decline.

Gu Won’s Past Life…A Story of Crime and Punishment

One thing I’ve learned from analyzing many dramas over the years is when a writer shows us a book or mentions a movie, we should look into them if we want a glimpse into what will happen in a drama. Now in Ep 1, you see #2 Wild Dog reading, “Crime and Punishment” by Fyodor Dostoevsky which was hilarious because he didn’t strike me as the type to read such a dense piece of literature. Seeing this book took me back to my high school days when we had to read and analyze this book. For those who don’t know, Russian works tend to be very long and are usually about suffering haha.

For the sake of time, I’ll you a very brief overview of what happened in “Crime and Punishment”. The story begins with a law student, Rodion Raskolnikov, who quits school because he can’t afford it anymore. The guy then has a mental breakdown of sorts and decides to kill the elderly owner of the pawnshop and her half-sister. He justifies his actions by rationalizing that by killing the pawnshop owner, he could take the valuables within her pawn shop and use them to fund his education which would eventually earn him a well-paying job. In turn, he would use the money earned to benefit the greater good.

Raskolnikov saw himself as an Ubermensch (if you don’t know that means, I had briefly talked about it in my DAYS posts). He believed that since he was above everyone else, he was allowed to cross all societal, ethical, and moral lines because his success would help the greatest amount of people. The rest of the novel is about Raskolnikov’s internal struggles with what he did. He goes back and forth between confessing or not confessing to the murders. Eventually, the love interest in the story, Sonia, a devout Christian and source of morality for Raskolnikov, convinces him to turn himself in and confess. Raskolnikov ends up only having to serve a total of 8 years in a labor camp for the murders. While there, he finally realizes the errors of his ways and feels guilt for his past actions. He then was like “Sonia’s love saved me and I feel bad for making her suffer so when I get out, I’m going to repay her with infinite love for all she has done for me”. And bam! That’s where the story ends…with the start of his journey toward redemption haha.

Gu Won is Raskolnikov in the sense that he thinks he’s better than everyone else and can therefore cross any line he so chooses. Based on a flashback in Ep 6, it seemed Gu Won had this kind of mindset even before he became a demon. So, what crime did Gu Won commit that landed him in Hell in the first place? I wouldn’t label it so much as an actual crime like murder but Gu Won probably got Do Hee’s past self killed. The guilt he felt after her death is probably what led to him become essentially trapped in a mental Hell, much like Madam Ju. Eventually, this guilt prevented him from entering heaven after he died. God/Lady probably took pity on him and offered him salvation in the form of becoming a demon; alternatively, it could be that God/Lady offered him a "sweet" contract where he could work as a demon in exchange for a second chance and a happier life with Do Hee in the future. Regardless of whatever the case may be, the important thing is that Gu Won needs to remember what happened in his past so he can seek forgiveness from Do Hee in the present and start his path toward redemption much like Raskolnikov. The truth sets you free haha. Gu Won is taking a step in the right direction though by protecting Do Hee. He could be like Raskolnikov and choose to give Do Hee infinite love for the rest of his life to make up for the horrible things he did to her in the past haha. Oh, one more thing for this section, the tattoo being on Do Hee’s wrist could symbolize that she was the reason why he became a demon in the first place.

Murders of Do Hee’s Parents and Madam Ju/Who Is Abraxas

In my original post, this section was long, but as I previously mentioned, the stuff I wrote was deleted. I’m just going to give you the overall gist of it. I still think the person who killed Madam Ju was Ju Seok Hun and that the person who killed Do Hee’s parents was Madam Ju’s little brother/Seok Hun’s father. I don’t think Madam Ju directly killed Do Hee’s parents, but she felt guilty for their deaths because she covered up the incident to protect her little brother. After which, she cut him off and exiled him to Peru to live a hippie life haha. This is completely speculative though. Like we have two choices for who murdered Do Hee’s parents and Madam Ju. Choice #1 is Noh Suk Min and Noh Do Gyeong and Choice #2 Seok Hun’s father and Seok Hun. One argument I made for choice #2 is that if Suk Min and Do Gyeong were the real killers, wouldn’t the actor who played Do Gyeong be a main lead instead of a supporting character? Another argument was that Seok Hun has too many conflicting qualities about him. For example, he is a hippie who works in the corporate world and despite portraying a goody-two-shoes image, he suggests Do Hee should engage in some ethically questionable business practices like letting Mirae Investments buy shares of Mirae F&B to offset the losses.

It’s also important to remember what Do Hee said about “sweet” things and how they’re always fake (except for Gu Won haha). Seok Hun is faker than acrylic nails. He puts on an act that he cares about her well-being when in reality, he hopes she dies. He must continue with this nice guy act because he doesn’t want her death to lead back to him. Just think about some things for a moment, if Do Hee died, who would the police suspect killed her? Would it be the people who openly voiced their disdain for her or the person whom she had a loving relationship with? It would be the former. The scene with Do Gyeong at the lockers is essentially Seok Hun setting him up to take the fall for Do Hee’s murder. At the end of the day, human greed is what drove Seok Hun to do what he did. Who knows, maybe his greed stems from being subjected to a frugal lifestyle while growing up.

Crosses, Numerology, and Tarot

Amen, we are nearing the end. Ok, let’s keep going at record speed. So, crosses and Catholicism/Christianity are heavily present in this show. The same goes for numbers and tarot. They’re all connected. Some religious crosses can look like an “X” which looks like the Roman numeral 10. The number 10 is everywhere in this show. For example, the little girl was celebrating her 10th birthday and the Wheel of Fortune is the 10th tarot card in the Rider Waite Tarot Deck. Connecting numerology with tarot, the wheel of fortune represents the end of one journey and the beginning of another…1 + 0 = 1, where 1 symbolizes completion.

The clock in the promotional poster has a hand pointing at 10, which is different than the clocks seen at Gu Won’s place that only go from 0-9. While we are on the subject of 9, “Gu” means nine. Every time Gu Won started a new life, he named himself the next number following his current one. For example, he was Il (1) Won, then I (2) Won, and so forth. Now in his 9th life, he is called Gu Won. Get it? Ok, cool. What comes after 9? 10. After Gu Won completes his transformation into a human, he will be called Sip (10) Won haha. Additionally, did anyone notice the number 91 on the cake Do Hee baked for him? What’s 9+1? 10.

Pay attention to the numbers in this show people! Always ask yourself what each number means and what it's connected to haha. When God/the Lady said, "I’m betting on all the odd numbers", many were like what does that mean? She’s referring to the numbers on tarot cards (Rider Waite Deck), which represent Gu Won and Do Hee. For example, which cards represent them? For starters, the 15th card aka the devil. 1+5=6 which is the lovers card. Another odd-numbered tarot card that is representative of Do Hee and Gu Won is the 9th card which is “The Hermit” because let’s be real here, they both were hermits before they met each other. The last major arcana tarot card in the deck is #21…THE WORLD aka GUARANTEED SUCCESS. So this is what God/Lady meant when she said she’s betting on all the odd numbers. It’s the writer’s way of telling us we are going to get a happy ending after all the chaos that will occur.

One more intriguing number is 17. If you sniff around, you’ll notice that 17 is the number of years that have passed since Do Hee’s parents died. 17 is also the number of the coin locker where Jeffrey and Seok Hun exchange stuff. Hilariously, Gu Won’s passcode to his safe is “666”, which is the number of the beast/devil haha. In the newspaper clipping about the Sunwol Foundation, it said the theater was completed on June 7, 1977 and Gu Won’s name during that time was Chil (7) Won haha. The number 7 is seen as lucky in Korean and many Western cultures.

MISC

The cross necklace Gu Won wears probably belonged to Do Hee’s past self or was given to Gu Won by Do Hee…..OH I just made another connection…..In “Crime and Punishment”, Sonia gave Raskolnikov a cross necklace. Also, in Crime and Punishment, Sonia was a prostitute and Do Hee was essentially one during the Joseon dynasty…. Kisaeng and prostitutes are basically the same thing haha. It’s also interesting that both Gu Won and Do Hee wear two necklaces, one silver and one gold. I wonder if there’s any meaning behind that.

In the newspaper clipping about Sunwol Foundation, the term 'Sun/Seon' is written in hanja and translates to 'to return/come back.' This element was part of Gu Won's original name, Yi Sun/Seon. Additionally, 'wol' means moon. Therefore, I interpreted 'Sunwol' to mean 'Sun and Moon' or 'Moon That Returns.' In a broader sense, Sunwol can be likened to the Taj Mahal—a building or monument constructed in memory of a beloved. One could also view Sunwol as a place that narrates the love story of the Sun (Gu Won) and the Moon (Do Hee) or as a place built with the hope that Gu Won’s beloved moon would return one day.

Ok, folks, that concludes this very brief TA post. WOOHOO! Sorry if there were any grammatical mistakes or typos, and if this post seemed a bit disorganized. I really have to get to bed and didn't have time to edit this haha. See you all next week maybe!

#my demon

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onigiri-dorkk · 1 year

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Top 10 Films!

(Thanks for the tag SO long ago @a-slut-for-smut! I actually had this entire post written in my drafts right after you had tagged me but never got around to post it for some reason LOL)

I don’t watch many films anymore these days (shows/series have taken place of it) so it took awhile to recall all of my favorites. It’s actually nice to remember though, because it means all of these really lasted with me over my life.

The Perks of Being a Wallflower (2012): A perfect coming-of-age film and story, discovered in my junior year of highschool. First of all I was in love with Logan Lerman looool and Emma Watson. But there are lines of this book/movie that stuck with me through my life, and the movie executed it perfectly. A story of finding belonging, first love, overcoming trauma alongside loved ones, growing up. The soundtrack is phenomenal, even the music score album (I listen to that often while writing).

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2004): The cinematography and shots in this are just so gorgeous and creative. It’s a quirky and angsty film circling around two imperfect lovers who choose to love, who deal with the heartbreak in a terrible way, and who fall in love again, saying yes to the struggle. And, come on! The idea of having your memories erased, then during the process realizing you want to keep the painful memories after all? And navigating through memories trying to hold onto the good and the bad? Just a beautiful concept. Lots of fantastic lines and scenes. I took a lot of inspo from one scene in particular of this movie into some of the latest chapters of my longfic.

The Fault in Our Stars (2013): First of all, TFIOS is one of my all time favorite books. John Green is my favorite author, and is the only (published) author I’ve EVER gone out of my way to read multiple works from. TFIOS was the first book that brought me to *literal* tears. It rocked my world, this ill-fated story of star crossed lovers. The movie did a fantastic job adapting it; as soon as the production was announced I followed it loyally and the execution of the film made it so worth the journey. Hazel and Augustus’ actors’ chemistry was just SO good. The film STILL makes me bawl like a baby. Pls watch.

Anastasia (1997): A favorite since childhood! Romanov Princess gone missing, forced to pretend she’s the princess but she doesn’t know she’s the princess, until she finds out the conman she’s working with was the child who saved her long ago in her lost past? And they fall in love? So the conman lets go of all his con ways??? BEAUTIFUL. Love the music, love the animation, loved the idea of finding the missing princess and the love story of an unrecognized reunion of two childhood friends. I’ve always wanted to write a Rivamika/Anastasia AU 🥰 Someday.

Tangled (2010): I think as a teen I just really resonated with the “lost princess, aching for more in her life, feeling stuck in a tower, fall in love with conman” trope 🤣 But also, this was one of the first movies that made me just feel overwhelmed with heart-squeezing emotion. (I freaking loved Rapunzel; related to her in many ways) The lantern scene took my breath away and I had never really felt that in a movie theater before. Love the soundtrack and movie scores (did a music analysis presentation on the score back in highschool), animation was and still is beautiful even if it was one of Disney’s pioneering 3D animation movies.

Les Miserables (2012): I’m a sucker for musicals but this is one that I hold special in my heart. Aside from the fact that I played violin for Les Mis productions for two years, so I am attached to the music deeply... the story! The cinematography! The acting! The live singing! The instrumentals! Just a perfect cinematic experience. Eponine’s friend-zone story still breaks my heart, and I watched this movie at a time when I was going through her situation. I fell in love w the storytelling; how it took the journeys of multiple protagonists and perfectly interweaved each arc into each other’s so seamlessly. Also another movie that makes me bawl. Now that I stop to think of it, Fantine reminds me of Kuchel ;-;

Titanic (1997): I just rewatched this recently, after many many many years since childhood where I wasn't allowed to watch the kiss scenes (lol!) and holy wow it is a fantastic movie from start to end. It also helps now that I totally see Jack/young Leo as Levi. Beautiful timeless love story set in history. You know everything that happens and yet you still get so immersed into it.

August Rush (2007): I haven’t watched this in YEARS but 100% this deserves to be on my faves. August, an orphan who is looking for his parents, is discovered for his musical talents on an inspiring journey. Beautiful story about how someone’s passion for music/art (anything, really) can change their life; his parent’s story even becomes a reunion love story. This def had moments that took my breath away, too. (When August Rush gets up on that stage with the orchestra, ahhhh)

The Pianist (2002): (And honorable mention: Schindler’s List) Painfully beautiful movies. Terrible history of our world, depicted with care and pointing to the glimmers of hope in a heart wrenching way that deeply affects you. I think of both of these movies often. In The Pianist, Brody’s character is discovered to be a pianist by a German officer who helps him hide. Schindler’s List is about how a German man risks it all to save many Jews. The directing in both is phenomenal; the music—agh, that violin in Schindler’s List—too. I tear up thinking of this.

The Prince of Egypt (1998): Lastly, The Prince of Egypt. This movie rocked my world to see an ancient story, which I grew up with and was important to me and my faith when I was young, illustrated and animated with such beautiful art, music, etc. Moses leading a slave nation out of Egypt despite the odds. The burning bush scene and this one will always be iconic cinema scenes in my heart. Phew. Pls watch to those scenes with the music!!!

Thanks for tagging me @a-slut-for-smut! This was so fun to put together. I’ve been wanting to rewatch old classics to case-study the story writing and learn from my faves, so a movie marathon after the busy season will be a fun learning experience 😍

I tag: @chaosisbeauty23 @nuri148 @rivaille-13 @bryhaven @levi4mikasa @lady-purpleblue @warbarbie @your-lavender-dreams @nina-bean @onwriting-hrarby @randomposterofstuff @guliplum1 and anyone else in the community that wants to participate!!!

#personal

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temporalbystander · 1 month

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*deep traumatic sigh*

Okay guys... I think it's time I introduced you to someone...

I'd like you all to meet Caleb Talont. My first OC, the basis for pretty much every OC that followed and my first foray into fanfiction. He was basically what I came up with before I got over my childish bashing and "fix all the problems" phase. The cool edgy guy with the powers of darkness yet is still kind and lovable. I'll admit it. He was a Mary Sue. I won't call him a self-insert, I started a story with a self-insert premise and oh boy did I quickly learn I should not be trusted with power.

But hold a wand to my head and threaten the killing curse? I might admit that Caleb is who I wanted to be. Past tense. I'm in a better place but Caleb is still the dark moody mofo he is. I don't blame him, I put him through hell.

Why am I bringing him up now? Well I was 13 when I first came up with Caleb, at least that's when my first post of him was, considering how obsessed I was with fanfiction before that point? And how many times I remember throwing him into Winx and WITCH? I may have been even younger. I mention how young I was to bring up how long it's been. I haven't touched Harry Potter fanfiction in what feels like decades. I haven't seen any of the original movies or reread the books in what I know has been a decade.

So, when I tell you, that seeing a SuperCarlinsBrothers video asking whether or not the Marauder's Map can lie? Well... I hope you'll believe when I say I did not expect that part of my brain, Caleb Talont himself, to wake from his coma and go "hold my butterbeer. I've got this."

I really, REALLY, like giving magic logical analysis and breakdowns. Not in a "magic is science we don't understand" type of bull that lead to stories where muggles proved they couldn't be trusted with the knowledge of magic existing, kind of way. But in a "it's all around us, it follows general trends and here are some guidelines to make using it easier but it's magic. The skys the limit just don't go too nuts too quickly okay?" Kind of way.

One way is "it's physics with extra laws." The other is "rotate your wand like this? Fire. Flick it like this? Water. Okay now watch what I can do without the wand."

I know what I find more fun. Magic should be poetry. It should be art. Sure it has a rhythm and some kind of structure but it doesn't NEED to."

Anyway. With that done. I will not be restarting any Caleb stories or moving them to AO3. I am however now open for any Harry Potter views debates or opinions you can throw at me.

I still have not watched the CarlinBros video by the way.

#ooc #mun talks #outsideofcausality #Harry Potter #harry potter oc #hp brainrot #hogwarts is my home

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juliedrawz · 1 year

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🌼 Big Info/Update on my "Coco" Book 🌼

So it's almost been a year ...

Wow! What a journey so far! I wanted to take my time to talk to you "every dear one of you who loves my art and follows me" for a bit. Now, this will be a long post so keep that in mind!

I cannot remember a year in which I went through so many changes. I grew a lot mentally and I learned a lot. When I first watched Coco, I didn't know at all what kind of impact it will have on me. I know it did for a whole lot many more than just me. It's not just a movie, it's something that moved my heart in depths I cannot explain. Look, the only movie franchise who ever was able to impact me that deeply was Lord of the Rings/Hobbit, but then Coco came along and well ... Héctor! ... and Ernesto.

But talking about Héctor in every little detail possible is planned for another post. There is so much! And Ernesto even more. Ernesto is actually (has actually) been my biggest surprise this year 🤯 And let me tell you why for a little because this is a important part of this whole post!

Villains. We all know what a villain is. When I first saw Ernesto, I was instantly drawn to his charmful personality. I love mexico! I love mexicans, (they happen to be one of the funniest, kindest and most temperamental ones I ever came across and they understand how to celebrate life and death!) At first, we only see what Ernesto can do without knowing anything just yet. I was blown! Let me get this down, he's a musícan with a inrcedible voice (I have an opera education background so I connect to his trained voice), he's a actor, a showman, he's a phenomenal horseback rider and he's handsome! I don't need to tell you about the punch in the guts you end up having later!

Oh, yes! Something I would say! Seriously! I do act like that whenever I am burning for something! *cough* snowflakes quite recently! It was late and my boss only had 1 client left and it started snowing big flakes and I went full child excited mood "think Ernesto and fireworks" until they hit me with their "Augh, snow! Cold, wet, annoying!" And then I literally turned into this cinematic drama queen telling them about nostalgia and the spirit of christmas! *laugh* Their faces 😆 Bah humbug! Truly!

Can you imagine Ernesto in the role of Ebenezer Scrooge? I can! 😆 Héctor, Ceci and Imelda as the 3 spirits of christmas. Yes sir! I want that for christmas! *cough* aaand I'm rambling! I was talking about my book ... yes ... back to that!

Anyway! Moving on! I've told you before that as an INFP personality it's in my nature anyway to think and feel myself deeper into things (whatever they are) and I need about 2 or 3 rows to analyze and solidifying my opinion. That's what happened with Ernesto. Yes, at first I was "heck this guy!" Mildly said, I did not like Ernesto. One. Bit. I was mad and I, for the first few moments, labled him as a villain too! But then I rewatched and rewatched and rewatched Coco and I analyzed Ernesto. And after I went "wait a dang minute!" I realized, no, this man is certainly not your typical "Bad guy!" And after my Dad "an ex-soldier and chef prison guard" confirmed my analysis, I started researching and studying on human behavior, trauma (PTSD) and especially psyche! Now, I wanted to do this anyway because of Héctor and Imelda but it played into my hands with Ernesto. But it also flipped my whole opinion of him. It is a canon fact, that Héctor and Ernesto grew up together and were like brothers to each other and I had the statement, that Ernesto isn't proud of what he's done. Oh boy did that flip tables for me! Because guess what! A true villian is evil, period. You don't go thinking about any redemption because they are that far gone! And a truly rotten, evil soul does not regret their actions or deeds, they are perfectly fine and content with them. I would love to share my whole Sherlock Holmes 🔎 action I did on Ernesto with you but I can't because that would def. spoil everything that is to come!

Ok, this whole Ernesto case has changed and impacted my book! And not only that. The longer I wrote, I got back my grammar and writing skills (after not truly writing for years!) I improved and only after months and then going back to the first half of my book, I realized that many things weren't the way I wanted them anymore. The plot was now solid (wasn't at first) some age/timeline aspects changed! I tweaked some things! Grammar too. And that means I will need to go over my whole first bunch of chapters eventually!

Now I really know where my book is heading! From beginning to end! I now have the silver lining! That also means, the Title of my book has changed! But I will change it in time, not just yet!

The thing with Ceci 👓

Honestly, when I first included Ceci in my book, I, just like with many things, as I mentioned, had no idea what to do with her! I knew I wanted her in, because of that one scene! She instantly had me with her sassy attitude. And since it was pretty clear that she and Héctor knew each other and that she's been helping him not only once, I knew that there had to be a connection. And so I went with it. But that was still raw and not well thought through. That came fairly quickly though! And by now, Ceci is, next to Imelda one of the main characters! She plays a big role and she will be very important for the future!

My Book - Not just any other Fanfic

I know that everyone has their own opinion, view of things and headcanons. This is mine! But while it is my headcanon, I had the goal from the moment I sat down and decided "I'm going to do this!" To make my book feel as canon as possible. I knew I didn't just want to create yet another "great" fanfiction, I wanted to create something that is way more than just that. Something that could give huge Coco fans like me something back. Something that has an impact, something that shares what I have in my heart at least a little! I wanted to do something that hasn't been done before! And for once, I dedicated myself to it, no matter how long it will take, I will finish it! Oof, didn't that sound like something Héctor would say?

This thing has become my baby! 😂

I wanted to stay "true" to each character, stay in line and make readers go "yep, that's how it all happened" I wanted the characters to stay real and authentic. I didn't want to change them or make them do things that would fall out of their character. I knew I wanted my book to circle around Héctor mainly but the longer I worked on it, the more I understood that Ernesto, Ceci and Imelda are just as much of a part of Héctor! And developing their story, they became a huge part.

I wanted and still want to bring emotions across as if you'd feel them! I also knew and now I know even more, that my book is "in no way" for children! It is in everyway for us adults, for teens at least! Because I go deeper and touch on topics that are scary, painful, harsh and dark. You'll see that even more in chapters to come!

Conclusion ❗️

Since it's a real book I am working on, I realized that it is pretty normal that some chapters take weeks, sometimes even months to write. I understood that it's ok to take my time! And if it ends up taking me 2 or 3 years to finish it. I stopped feeling guilty when I cannot post new content fast enough because it just takes a lot of time and effort. And besides my passions, life happens and continues. Work happens to be exhausting sometimes, not all weekends end up being a free-time for me. And there are family gatherings, normal things to do, as plain as grocery shopping. And recently, christmas. But I appreciate every time I get to work on my book and my art!

So, yes, I had to get to this conclution on my own. While it is clear for others. And that has everything to do with my personality. I love pleasing people and making people happy. And by all means, I love love love what I do! If I could I would double my arms and work on more tings faster! Sometimes I wish I could stay home and work on my hobbies only but that isn't going to happen for me.

So at that point. I want to say "Thank you!" AGAIN! For all you guys who have been sticking around so far! For all the kind words! I hope you'll stick around for the next year/years to come and keep Coco alive!

🌼 Coco is timeless 🌼

It is so much more than just bringing across a deep important message! It has earned itself a very special place in my heart! It has caused me to pick up writing again, and it made me pick up my guitar and finally learn it! I will finish telling Héctor's story! And Ernesto's along with it! And I am no longer scared if some might end up hating it or calling me crazy for it! Because, like Héctor said, then I am, un poco loco! And I want to be nothing else!

#coco 2017 #pixar coco #coco hector #héctor rivera #coco characters #ernesto de la cruz #coco imelda #imelda rivera #coco headcanon #coco ceci #coco ernesto #writing my book #coco

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julietasgf · 2 months

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BOA TARDE/ NOITE / DIA 😈 Your approval of Ma Plinth and Mrs. Everdeen's analysis has given me the delulu power of Coriolanus

I'm no longer afraid to throw up my headcanons and I'm making my notes for an upcoming post about Sejanus and the academy kids I think he might have an interesting platonic relationship with (my victims are Lysistrata, Io Jasper, Persephone Price, and Plup Harrington hahaha don't freaked out about that last one. I swear I can explain; it's a complicated issue and I don't think they are friends but I can perfectly see their parents forcing them to talk and them having a terribly tense relationship😭 but well that's for another day). Before I ramble on let me just say that I love talking to you Juli 💖 How was your first day of school? -if you want to talk about it-. I hope everything went well and I want to reminder that you are amazing

Once we've cleared that up LET'S GET STARTED!!!

I think after many posts we've come to something of a coherent conclusion about the flaws and virtues affecting the film adaptation of TBOSAS (The Plinths, the academy students, the tributes and the games, etc). Conclusion that is good to remember is based solely on our opinions, conclusion born of our perspectives - in case anyone other than us reads this. I have seen the reblogs…

There are only a few loose ends left because your explanation of the importance of the space of enunciation from which Suzanne published TBOSAS and why she chose a character like Coriolanus to star in that book was chef kiss. You put very well in words how context cuts across media - and I think it's well intuited why it's not surprising then that TBOSAS movie in the current landscape is so apolitical.

I also agree that the stories Suzanne tells depend on small details that give the reader a broader perspective and nuance of the actions/emotions/circumstances of her characters and that when the film undoes or modifies these the story is severely affected and is one of the many factors that lead to the storytelling of Coriolanus and Sejanus for example being so different in intent and message than their book namesakes

The one thing I did want to say before I go talking about fics is that one advantage the movie had over the book when it came to humanizing the tributes is that it happens outside of Coriolanus' head. It makes a lot of sense that in the book excluding Lucy Gray -and that on occasion. Not to forget how LGB admits at one point that during the day even in front of Coryo she ACTS and at night she finds it almost impossible to hide her fear so we don't really see much of her real vulnerability-we know so little of the tributes on a personal level and they feel like flat characters since Coriolanus doesn't really see them as people.

Sometimes he sees flashes of their humanidad but stops himself from trying to humanize them -and when he has those flashes he himself says he's acting like Sejanus to stop himself, which I think has very strong implications, Snow actually killed his humanity when he killed Sejanus 😭-but the main point is that in the movie the tributes are freed from Snow's perspective and can be their own people.

And yes Coral I think was one of the best changes. And I'll continue the eternal campaign of please people. Read the book if you want to say something about LGB or Sejanus.

(Oh boi. Your comment about fandom proving THG-TBOSAS critics, I won't discuss it because its a lurid subject but I'll just say you are so right and sadly there are many examples cof cof rue cof cof cof).

About the fics:

Well. The BairdPlinth series was GREAT AND SO SAD, LGB and Sejanus are awesome but have the worst taste in men 🥺 although yay for fics centered around platonic relationships 🙏🙏🙏💖💖💖

With "And they called it puppy love" I discovered a couple of very curious things:

I had already read that fic but the curious thing is not that. But apparently THAT was the FIRST TBOSAS FIC I kept in my BOOKMARKS!!!!

Ma, it was a cruel recommendation /j not joke but im not complaining 🥺🥺🥺🥺 I enjoyed it but my heart is broke, I can't say anything else cry.

And we come to: Paralell lines.

I read the first chapter. I haven't read the second one yet. Partly due to lack of time, partly because I don't want to finish it. I've been rereading the first chapter every chance I get with absolute devotion.

My brain chemistry was also forever changed and when I finish it I know it will go on my list of tbosas fanfics that changed my LIFE

Speaking of that list… I've look for 3 fic of my list for you <3

I have to say that in TBOSAS I've read fics with very varied themes, more varied than I usually read -and when you see you end up writing an omegaverse because something in your head clicks with Dr. Gaul and ah- but I have a thing for stories that fill in gaps (pre canon, post canon and divergences from canon my beloved) so that's what you'll mostly find in the 3 chosen ones

Btw I hadn't thought about it before but I think I also have a love for fics where a character study is done over other things hahaha so you'll find that too.

1. out, damned spot

Summary:

You’re not real, he thought – thought it hard, and hoped that it would be enough to send Sejanus packing. You’re a morphling hallucination.

And Sejanus crossed his arms, one hip canted at an insolent angle, as if to say: afraid not, soldier. - Okey. Buddie you don't know how much this fic ALTERED THE CHEMISTRY OF MY BRAIN. 99% of my fanfics are inspired in one way or another by this one, and I consider it canon in my head.

2. odi et amo

Summary:

He knows Coryo would never admit to remembering the rose garden. - This one is narrated by Sejanus!!!! And it's pre canon TBOSAS, <3 it centers around a little school project that Coriolanus, Sejanus and Livia are assigned to do together and I won't say more because it would be spoiler only that it has a brilliant and shocking ending. I screamed when I read it

3. The Haunting of Coriolanus Snow

Summary:

He would act, as he always did, as if this were the only time he had ever dreamed of Lucy Gray Baird and Sejanus Plinth.

The flowers, though — those were new. And despite his best efforts to exorcise this night from his memory, he spent more nights afterward than he cared to admit thinking about what to make of them. -

SNOWBAIRDPLINTH FOR WIN!!! THE SYMBOLISM IN THIS ONE IS WONDERFUL, THERE ARE SO MANY DETAILS THAT ADD TO THE STORYTELLING and I love it.

But well there are the recommendations, hope you like them. Tell me what you think pls 👉👈

Now serious mode.

I have a little rant to do and I need to hear your thoughts but concerning that post about the department… let's please talk about how the Plinth's influence and power in the Capitol is overestimated. LOOK I'm not saying they don't have any but it's not as much as people think 😭.

I blame -as usual- Coriolanus' narrative for this confusion. I think it's obvious that Coriolanus grants an all powerful ability (they are able to buy their way out of any problem) to the Plinth for two issues: 1. At the end of the day he is also a dumb 18 year old teenager who was overprotected by Tigris, and doesn't have a very clear vision of the adult world and how it works (in fact that's a detail that I love and obsess about his conversation with Strabo; it makes very clear that Coriolanus despite all his manipulation shit, is still an inexperienced kid)

The boy is projecting very badly on the Plinth. What I'm getting at is that Coriolanus in the book firmly believes that the Plinths "stole" the life of the Snows, (specifically that Sejanus "stole" the life that should be his); his parents are alive and in the munitions business, they have a lot of money, they have luxuries and influence, but this obsession with what the Snows should be, along with his contempt for the people of the district is what prevents him from being really objective about the true influence the Plinth's have, he only sees what in his head should be the Snow's all powerful position, epically ignoring that the Plinth are district and realistically have very limited influence within the Capitol (Crassus Snow alive and with money, could do MORE than Strabo will ever do with all the money in the world).

Just the area they live in tells you a lot, the Plinth's didn't make it to the Capitol and immediately moved to the Corso. They couldn't, they didn't have the social prestige that was needed, they literally have to wait for PEOPLE to BE THROWN OUT, for taxes to try and see if they get a chance to live among THE ELITE OF THE ELITE, and it even shows a lot in Strabo's investments; the man is helping to rebuild the Capitol not for love of the Capitol perse, but to get a quarter of the prestige that someone like Coriolanus Snow, born in the Capitol from an old family possesses just by existing. Literally when Sejanus gets in trouble Strabo's response is disproportionate, not because he wants to brag that he has money, but because his family would lost everything if he dont compensates exceedingly well.

Which I think brings up the big question: Strabo could have really saved Sejanus if he had found out in time?, Coriolanus thinks yes, I have my doubts but well… let's talk about something cooler

LIKE LATAM AU 😈

OK. UNOFFICIAL LATAM AU PLOT ( unless…).

Coriolanus Snow, too Argentinian to exist. His mother is alive?, who knows but his father I'm sure is dead. The boy has been stuck all his life with his classist grandmother who has convinced him that his family is more European than Latino, and living in a small town in the USA, Coriolanus has made the decision to pretend to have a European heritage over a Latino one. The Snows continue to have financial problems

Her cousin Tigris (whose father is Uruguayan), wants to be a fashion designer, and has decided to move to New York, she ends up living in a Latino neighborhood (btw YOU MENTIONED IN THE HEIGHTS AND SCREAM, BECAUSE IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE, I'm sorry, I have to tell you Juli; I'm kind of a theatre kid; I already knew the actor from Sejanus from being in Hamilton and from being with the LGB actress in west side story). OK THE THING IS THAT CORIOLANUS, HER COUSIN, WHO IS ALMOST LIKE HER LITTLE BROTHER, HAS MANAGED AFTER YEARS OF EFFORT TO GET INTO STANFORD on a scholarship, and he needs a place to stay… his family tells him he can move in with Tigris, and Coryo accepts because Tigris is his favorite cousin and because the rent was so cheap. He has no idea what Tigris's neighborhood looks like but it must be great because IT IS CHEAP, but the fool doesn't know what is coming MUAHAHAHA Because in that beautiful neighborhood live two very special people: LGB Colombian girl and romani <3, who wants to be a singer and has her own band formed by Covey. I can imagine covey in a situation of orphans who maybe were in many foster homes and orphanages and bonded in those traumatic experiences, until the older ones grew up and could get the guardianships of the others and are a big family that takes care of each other (What do you think of Billy Taupe because that's a character we can explore uh?), and LGB has several jobs and a lot of pressure on her shoulders -she is practically raising Maude Ivory- but she doesn't give up and is very proud of who she is. Then there is Sejanus, who is Strabo PLINTH's son. I suppose it is possible Strabo is still involved in the arms industry (which will one day cause his son to make a protest in front of the family business LMAO), Strabo I am sure wants to move to another more dignified neighborhood but Vesta has been preventing him from doing so for over 3 decades, lmao, her family lives there. They are NOT GOING ANYWHERE and since Strabo doesn't want Vesta to ask him for a divorce he has reluctantly given in but has done all the bragging things he can like having the biggest house the block, etc.

Sejanus may or may not also study at Stanford (? but the most important thing is that our boy is 1000% an anarchist left-wing hippie liberal activist with no respect for the government or the elders -as his father calls him-, the boy has been involved in debates since he was 8 years old and arrived in the USA without knowing how to speak english well and his father made the decision to put him in a school for rich kids :)))) WORST CHOICE EVER (actually baby sejanus tried to assimilate but in his teens he realized that no matter what he did people were going to hate him so he SAID FUCK ALL and rebelled and Strabo hasn't recovered from that, because at the same time his little boy stopped believing that he was a very wise man. STRABO MISSES BABY SEJANUS, HE WAS GOOD AND HE DIDN'T GET IN TROUBLE OR CONTRADICT HIM drunk strabo cries in Vesta's arms and yes, this assimilation story is what will keep Sejanus from cancelling Coriolanus when he finally talks to him and he denies being Argentinian AND TIGRIS COUSIN)

OK. So Coriolanus finally moves in and of course he's going to scream when he sees that they're in a Latino neighborhood, the guy wants to die but he doesn't have the money to move, and maybe he'll do a weird and elaborate tour so that no one in Stanford will find out where he lives. The people in the neighborhood meanwhile know he is Tigris's cousin but he acts so gringo they genuinely believe he is, and I can see how everyone keeps criticizing Coryo 24/7 for his weird attitudes and ass in Spanish thinking he doesn't understand them but he does because he knows Spanish but he has decided to keep hiding that so he has to get angry in silence AJHSJHSJHSJHS

BUT EVERYTHING CHANGES WHEN LGB AND SEJANUS DISCOVER HIM, I haven't thought about how that would happen yet but hehehehe

Marcus is canon cuban now (YOU AND I WE HAD A SAME BIG BRAIN MOMENT, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN EITHER BUT HIM BEING CUBAN MAKES SO MUCH SENSE) and well I'm happy with Tigris x LGB, but as you like coralbaird, don't you think it would be cool Coral as a Chilean? PLS or she could be the only decent American WHO KNOWS

Music?

I don't think I have recommended LA SNOWJANUS song so: Estrechez de corazón -los prisioneros

BOA TARDEEE (bc it's the moment I'm answering this ☝️

KSLSKLSKLS I'm actually so happy you're planning on posting more!!! 😭 I loved that post abt mrs everdeen and katniss so much, it made me think abt stuff I haven't noticed before, and I would LOVE to hear your thoughts abt sejanus and the academy kids (AND YESSSS PERSEPHONE PRINCE MENTIONED!!!! also, you got me hooked on pup harrington, I rlly want to know your thoughts abt them bc I never rlly thought abt it before)

and aaaaaaaaaaaaa I love talking to you so much, I genuinely get so happy seeing you in my inbox, get me kicking my feet and all 🥹 thank you for asking!!! it went okay, even tho I actually got lost lmao 😭 I got the wrong bus and stopped by the wrong campus (it's a big university, so there are plentyyy of campus on different neighbourhoods on the town and each one is for different courses, and I stopped at the med school, which is... very far away from my campus ☠️). but since I left home earlier, it was no problem and everything went alright (and on the second day I was able to find the right way, A WIN IS A WIN) !!! this first week is more to welcome the new students, so not a lot is going on and these first classes are more introductory + some events like games and stuff. also, thank you so much for your kind words, srsly, thank you so so so so much <3

BUT OKAY, LET'S GO

yesssss (it's always worth mentioning all of the stuff we talked abt is our opinion and only our opinion skslsklsk bc fandom spaces in general seem to have a problem with dealing with different opinions I guess)!! abt suzanne collins choosing coriolanus to being the main character of the book, it's worth saying that when the book was announced, I was so irked by the fact that coriolanus was going to be the main character. at first, I got 0 interest in reading the book because I thought it was going to be a cash grab. because why the hell would you choose CORIOLANUS SNOW, from all the characters???

but then I read the book and it just makes so much sense. SO much sense. it's kinda scary how suzanne made very clear what she wanted to pass with this story and still people are out there saying the stupidest things (such as reproducing some of coriolanus' discourses). really disappointing and sad the movie shies away from showing some of the strongest lines.

yesssss and I guess it's not only a problem regarding this specific adaptation, it serves as well for the other thg adaptations. don't get me wrong, these movies are genuinely some of the best book adaptation that exist (after all, it's an adaptation, it's not going to be just like the book... and that's okay!!), but for example, the fact that peeta doesn't lose his leg in the first movie (besides him being a disabled character in a big book franchise, which is something rlly important, in the book this was so important for the second book plot), or that they straight up made katniss white (I've talked before abt how you can read tbosas through racial and ethnic lens and this adds another impact to the story, but this applies to thg as well), or that they removed most of her important relationships and friendships with the girl characters (which led to some people who only watched the movie calling her a pick me, which makes me so mad). all of these small details impact how these characters are perceived and some of the most important messages the story wants to get through.

and about the tributes and the movie: YESSS!!! seeing them from outside of coriolanus' head really tells us a lot abt their personalities and gives them much more humanity!! the scene with pup harrington and lamina talking during the meeting is such a good example, it's heartbreaking seeing her crying like this. or then how we see the tributes interacting with each other on the arena. (coriolanus stopping himself from humanizing the tributes bc he would be thinking like sejanus was really something else 😭 but I absolutely agree!! tbosas has this twisted fairy-tale like sense to me, so some stuff I read more literally, and sejanus to me is like that angel on your shoulder trying to tell you to do the right thing; he's good, and that's the core of his character, being good, and when coriolanus kills him, he kills the only thing that kept him from being 100% evil; it's only after sejanus' death that he goes crazy and hunts lucy gray on the forest).

(the way the fandom treated rue back then (and still treats her nowadays, even though I see it much less) is CRAZY, and there are so many examples I could go on for days, starting by how some people literally REPRODUCE coriolanus' discourse and thoughts about some characters, like MY LORD-)

AAAAAA I'M SO GLAD YOU ENJOYED THE FICS (even tho most of them are more angst stuff, sorry for that 😭)!!!! and abt parallel lines, I remember that when it was being posted, I started reading from the first chapter, and until the second one was posted, I kept coming back and reading and reading over and over again because I needed MOREEEE bc of how good it was. AND TYSM FOR THE RECOMMENDATIONS!!! I've read all of three in the same day, and they are so. well. written. it's genuinely insane, like, people will really post some of the most amazing stuff I've read for FREE and it's SO GOOD, TYSM, SRSLY. now, abt each fanfic in particular:

out, damned spot: this one. jesus, this one is just- it really has this feeling of being so canon compliant, I can SEE it happening. it's just so so so good, so sinister, love the slight horror undertones. got me looking at the corner of my room afraid I would see a ghost 😭

odi et amo: THIS JUST MADE ME FEEL SO MANY THINGS, ALL AT ONCE. it was sweet, it was sad at times, it made me smile warmly at how sejanus talked about coriolanus so fondly... and then the ending, OH MY FUCKING GOD, I don't know exactly what I was expecting, but it was genuinely so shocking, the story had a rythm that just kep building and building and then it just explodes in your face, and just. I really have no words. I was speechless. got my hand to my mouth and everything bc of how shocked I was. I felt like playing one of these games who are all cute in the start, but... well. suddenly the mood shifts.

the haunting of coriolanus snow: THIS WAS SUCH A WILD RIDE. I love goold ol' snowbairdplinth, SPECIALLY when we're talking abt haunting coriolanus snow. this whole work is just so good aaaaaaa it's not as sinister as the first one, but it's just so well written (and tbh, I LOVE having coriolanus haunted, that's what he deserves, and actually he deserves much worse). and that last line???? SO COULD, COULD ACTUALLY BE THE ENDING OF A REAL BOOK, nah this will haunt me for a good time.

it's worth saying I bookmarked ALL of these because OH MY GOD, THEY'RE SO GOOD, again, tysm for the recs, they are all such good fanfics <33

look: I absolutely agree with you. I think it's worth saying that coriolanus is surrounded by rich and influent capitol kids (felix is literally the great-nephew of the president, ffs). why the hell coriolanus is so fixated on the fact that strabo plinth can buy sejanus' way out of things, when probably most of his academy colleagues can do so much more, actually? besides him being angry and jealous about the plinths having a life that should've been his in his head, it's exactly what you said: he's projecting so hard on the plinths.

(also, yes, coriolanus' is just a stupid kid who thinks of himself so above of his colleagues, when he's sometimes even dumber than them 😭 when we see him having actual conversations with actual adults, this is really noticeable)

okay, so, imo, coriolanus as a narrator tries to make us (as readers) to think that sejanus' position in relation to him is soooo unfair. look!!! this D I S T R I C T kid have money, and privilege, and a father who can buy him out of stuff and buy his way into MY prestigious school and so many more things!!! while I'm here struggling, this D I S T R I C T kid is so privileged!!! don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the plinths or sejanus don't have privilege in the capitol specially regarding money, because they do, but not any more than coriolanus' friends and colleagues. I just find interesting and a bit annoying how coriolanus decides to 100% ignore the fact that the plinths are district, but he only does that when it's regarding their financial privilege (because when it's to be a dick about ma plinth and sejanus, he perfectly remembers and recognizes that they are district, how funny is that? 🤠)

(ALSO, since you mentioned crassus snow, yeah, I think so many things would be different if that man was alive, and if anything, I think the plinths' lives would be so much harder if he was around, to be very, very honest)

coriolanus is so detached to this that when sejanus gets the D2 boy, coriolanus says he got the best one of the litter, and sejanus says he's one of the litter. coriolanus, in his words, let that sink in.

and talking abt the plinths and the corso, it's worth saying the plinths are living in the capitol for around 10 years. it's enough time for them to prove their finantial power, and still, they aren't living among the most inluential and powerful families in the capitol, because they simply aren't. it's worth saying coriolanus studies at the academy, one of the most prestigious schools in the capitol, simply because he is a snow, while strabo had to buy sejanus' way into it (and mind you, much more money than any other of his colleagues).

(now, this is my personal interpretation: when reading stuff, I usually think about how some things would work in our universe and in our rules. I don't know if that was suzanne collins' intentions, but while reading, I could only think abt how sejanus and coriolanus are pretty much a race/ethnicity x class conversation and how these two things intersect. coriolanus, to me, sounded like a white working class boy who can't stand the fact that a poc have more money and more privilege than him. he thinks it's so unfair he disregards absolutely any kind of bigotry that person faces (and, mind you, HE actually reproduces a lot of this bigotry), which leads him to thinking that people like sejanus have much more privilege than they actually have. it's not that coriolanus thinks that ppl shouldn't be rich or rich ppl shouldn't exist, it's that coriolanus thinks that PEOPLE LIKE SEJANUS shouldn't be rich, and that's another different convo)

and answering (imo) the big question: considering everything we talked about until now, I don't think sejanus could've been saved. he was doomed. and this proves a point: while sejanus is rich, he's still district, and in the end, being district is what weighs the most.

and also, this leads me to the discourse I see some people saying, that if sejanus was alive, he could've made a difference, like plutarch heavensbee. what they don't take into account is that plutarch heavensbee is capitol. do they really think that the capitol, that coriolanus, would let a district-born person get into politics? really? do they think they would let him make a change? that they wouldn't watch each step he takes, because he's district?

anyway. LATAM AU <3333

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALSKSLSJLSLKSLKS I LOVE THIS SO MUCHHHHHHHHHH I'M SCREAMING BC I WANT SO BAD TO SEE THIS PLOT COMING TO LIFE 😭😭😭😭😭

your brain!!!!! YOUR BRAINNNN I LOVE THIS SO MUCH.

(I'm holding your hand and screaming right now because, I'M ALSO A THEATRE KID LMAOOOOOO I've spent my entire middle school listening to hamilton 😭 it was the first one I got contact with, but then I got into other musicals, like spring awakening and wicked. I love in the heights sooooooo much, I actually like it better than hamilton!!! and the movie adaptation is SO good, it's insane; also, after we talked abt the latam au on the last ask, I went almost immediately to youtube to listen to blackout bc I kept imagining the characters on this scenarioKSLSKSLS).

I love your ideas for the covey!!! maybe the one to get older first was barb azure; she left their foster home and find a small place for them to stay. it's nothing fancy, but it's still better than the foster care system. (and hMMMM billy taupe can be an interesting character here; maybe when coriolanus arrived, there was already gossip circling on the neighbourhood because just recently, lucy gray and billy taupe had a NASTY break up, and she threw his things out of the window. at the start of the story, she's already single, but he keeps bothering her each time she goes to a club to make a show with the covey). lucy gray works so hard, and at the same time, she has to raise maude ivory, and take care of the house, and seek her dreams... and all while being sort of an important figure around the neighbourhood. everyone knows lucy gray, so if there's something wrong going on, they seek her to talk to fix things (but who lucy gray seeks when she needs to talk? when she needs someone to help her and solve her problems?).

vesta threatning strabo with a divorce is just such a funny thought 😭 also, imagine that the plinths weren't rich when they arrived in the usa, and that neighbourhood was the first one they've lived. one of her sisters lived there and vesta was so happy when they got to the block and almost everyone knew how to speak spanish, because she was so homesick and scared, it was comforting. sejanus grew up there, they built a whole life there, she REFUSES to let strabo move their family. that's their home. period.

(I rlly like the thought of sejanus attending stanford, but I'll talk abt it a bit later) sejanus had this phase when he was a pre-teen where he started getting into politics and started to read revolutionary thinkers from cold war latam, started reading about imperialism and just reading a lot in general, and he got radicalized. it was strabo's biggest nightmare, that man was fighting for his life, because at dinner sejanus would start "ACTUALLY-" and strabo knew it was so over, he couldn't win sejanus on arguments and they just end screaming insults at each other. bby sejanus did well on their neighbourhood, he even made some friends, like marcus, and some kids helped him with english (and a lot of kids speak spanish like him, so he feels much safer). but when his father got rich, he pushed sejanus into a very prestigious school, and it was very traumatic. he wanted so bad to fit in, but these kids were mean as fuck. they mocked him whenever he made a mistake in english, and mocked when he forgot a word, and mocked his accent, and mocked the things his mom would send him for lunch. he came home crying after the first week begging his dad to please let him go to the neighbourhood's school with marcus and the other kids, but his dad was relentless. and he tried SO hard to assimilate, but his breaking point was when his ma went to pick him up at school, and her english is much more broken than his. when the kids started to make fun of his ma, and she wasn't even understand exactly what they were saying, sejanus broke. he can deal with people hating and hurting him, but NOT his ma. and that's pretty much a turning point for him.

(when sejanus talks to coryo and understands what coryo is doing, he's not really angry, he's sad, because he knows how that feels, except that he stopped doing it much earlier.)

((also, strabo missing bby sejanus is so goodKSJLSKLSK he'll turn to vesta and be like WHEN DID IT GO WROOOOONG it seems like yesterday that sejanus was a little boy who thought strabo was the smartest person in the world, but now he seems like he hates strabo so much, it's so frustrating; strabo kinda regrets getting sejanus into that school, bc if sejanus went to the local school, then he wouldn't be so radicalized (he would tho lmao just for different reasons)))

CORIOLANUS IS STRUGGLING, the moments he sets foot on the neighbourhood he gets his phone to try to call his mom to know if he can come back or try to find an apartment, but it's useless, and until he finds a job or something, he has to stay with tigris for now bc that's what his mom can afford 😭 coriolanus now is even called gringo by everyone around lmao every single time they refer to him, he wants to die but he CAN'T SAY ANYTHING. and sometimes, even lucy gray and sejanus are talking in front of him in spanish, because they don't think he understands, and coriolanus is there with a straight face because he can't let them know if he wants to keep up his lie

ALSO, WHAT I TALKED EARLIER ABT SEJANUS GOING TO STANFORD: alright, so, sejanus and coriolanus have a class together, and this is before coriolanus discovers sejanus lives in the same neighbourhood as tigris. and in that class, coriolanus says some stupid shit, and him and sejanus get in a debate about it. so, much later, coriolanus is coming back to where him and tigris live, and who he finds around? oh, yeah. the same guy from his class. GREAT. and now coriolanus is in such a complicated position because he's pretending to not be from around but sejanus, who's from his class, LITERALLY LIVES THERE (and to his nightmare, sejanus is besties with lucy gray, who's that person on the neighborhood who knows pretty much anyone and everyone goes after for help)

CUBAN MARCUS YESSSSSS ☝️ (also, marcus having a beef with coriolanus bc he knows coriolanus is from stanford, and he thinks coriolanus is too much like the kids from the prestigious school sejanus attended when he was a kid). and about coral: listen, what do you think abt coral being irish? she isn't from the neighbourhood, but she works around, and her little brother, mizzen, goes to the same school as maude ivory (it's worth saying that before coriolanus, she was the gringa of the neighbourhood, now that title passes to him and she's a honorary prima 😭)

(also, imagine lucy gray teaching her some spanish like nina does to benny in in the heights AAAA)

LOS PRISIONEROS AND SNOWJANUS YESSSSSSS YOU'RE SO RIGHT, IT'S THEMMMM LITERALLY THEM!!!! (estás llorando y no haces nada por perdonar a nadie, excepto a ti AAAAAAAAAAAAAA

(take care, buddie!!! hope you're doing well <3)

#tbosas #tbosas movie #coriolanus snow #president snow #sejanus plinth #ask #analysis #au

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plushpinkfox · 2 years

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ok fine

so i know i already did a whole "i'm so excited about this!!" post but i wanted to flesh one out a little bit more now that we're down to less than six hours till the movie releases.

i think i first picked up a copy of the school for good and evil in 2015, but it could have been earlier. i found it on the shelves of my local library while i was still in middle school, and i was TRANSPORTED. and every time i open a copy nowadays, i can still remember that feeling.

i remember being so invested in the initial twist. i remember my heart racing while i read through the trial by tale. i remember a big smile on my face when agatha realized she was beautiful all along. i remember getting so excited and wiggling around while i read the ball proposal scene. i remember putting my book down in shock as sophie and agatha disappeared.

and most of all, i remember the girls. i remember identifying with both of them: sophie's pathological need to be loved and agatha's incredible lack of self-confidence. but also, how much they did ultimately love each other, despite their whole fairytale trying to pull them apart.

so i bought all the books (even red school! a terrible sacrifice). and i made an account on the website. and i watched entv videos. and i wrote goodreads reviews. and i waited, patiently, as did so many others, for news of the universal pictures project to finally follow through on the rights they purchased. when the netflix announcement came through, i celebrated. i made friends with kate in august of 2020 and we've been talking ever since. i became mutuals with soman chainani on twitter and spoke to him with the golden ticket contest. i made a tumblr fan account and accidentally helped shut down the entire forum section of the sge website. i made analysis posts and promised to make more that i just completely forgot about. and i had such a damn good time doing it all.

hearing the netflix news was so exciting and it hasn't stopped since. we are FINALLY at the end of the road for the first film. to be frank, i couldn't care less if it does well critically. i think paul feig put his all into making an adaptation that caters to what the fans want to see. i think the cast tried their hardest to emulate the characters we all know and love. i think this movie looks absolutely gorgeous, and i am so excited to see all the cringe and camp and camaraderie and care that comes from it. i am so excited to see the culmination of the last seven-odd years of fandom devotion that i have been waiting for.

this isn't a "last post" sort of deal, but i feel like this is the end of an era so to speak. maybe we'll get movies in the future, and i'll come right back here and get to make this whole dramatic speech again. maybe soman will continue the series somehow in more corny ways and i'll get to rag on those for years to come. maybe i'll outgrow it all and abandon this account and never come back! (not today, but someday i suppose). in the meantime, i will just enjoy this moment. i will get back to you with movie feedback after i am done watching it at 3am est.

with love.

#i am genuinely so excited to see this film #i have been talking about it all day to anyone who would listen #sge #school for good and evil #sge movie #school for good and evil movie

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bloomingjarofhoney · 1 year

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Greek Mythology in Twisted Wonderland: Book 6 Part 2

hey hi hello once again! i am back to annoy and educate you in one of my weird niches once again. i already did a deep analysis in part 2 so if you want you can check it out there. otherwise, i'll most likely repeat myself unless otherwise. everything will be under the read more cause this will be long once again.

starting off strong, we got the hydras! as many know, the hydra is a nine headed serpent where if one's head is chopped off, another will grow in its place. it was mentioned as one of the labors from the twelve labors of heracles. it was the second labor that heracles has to tackle, the first being the nemean lion. i know in the movie, hercules would chop off the heads because he's stupid, but heracles was very smart and would find a way to lure the hydra out of its poisonous caves to attack it.

also should mention, its spit was also poisonous. i know in the movie hercules gets swallowed and thus allowed him to kill the hydra. yeah, the poison would've killed him. instead, he requested the assistance of his nephew to help defeat the hydra. with the assistance of athena, heracles would chop off the heads of the hydra while his nephew would cauterize the stump, thus defeating the creature.

another fun fact, hera was getting pissed that heracles was winning, so she sent a crab after him in the hopes of getting distracted. unfortunately, heracles would later step on it, not even be bothered by the crab. hera felt bad for her crustacean friend so she allowed the crab to be among the stars, and that's where the star sign cancer comes from.

reference

tbh i first thought it was talking about zeus, but reading further it was talking about heracles. or at least the hercules from the movie because i can guarantee you, heracles very much knew who his father was. he was also not a god, his parents were zeus and a mortal woman where the name escapes me.

gaia is the titan goddess of the earth and the grandmother of the olympic gods. i don't know what titan nebula god idia is talking about because it's not really well known. the only one i could definitively find was astraeus, who is the titan god of the stars and planets and the art of astrology. in some cases, he was also the father of the stars and the four seasonal winds. otherwise, there's not much knowledge of him.

mnemosyne is the titan goddess of memories and is the mother of the nine muses, with zeus being the father. i've mentioned it before in my previous post, but zeus would have sex with anything and anyone. he was not a good guy.

anyway, i digress. mnemosyne was also a river in the underworld, which ran parallel with the river lethe, the river of forgetfulness. according to myth, souls who are reincarnated would drink from the river lethe so they would forget their past life. however, souls of the novices would be told to drink from mnemosyne. possibly so they could remember their past life, i'm not clear on the details.

reference

aegis is mostly cloth that ancient greece has used. it was mentioned that athena has adopted the aegis as regular dress, even going so far as to use the severed head of medusa as a symbolic representation.

tbh, i would think they would use argus, who in greek mythology was a creature with many eyes around its body. he was mentioned as being a servant to hera. in one myth, hera was able to capture one of zeus's lovers (i think it was io it's been a while) who was turned into a cow and was kept in hera's garden. argus was stationed to keep watch, since his eyes would always be open. zeus devised a plan to rescue his lover by having him slain. he asked hermes for help, which he disguised himself as a shepherd and played a song to put all the eyes of argus to sleep. after he was sure he was asleep, hermes slaughtered argus by using a stone to hit him over the head.

i just think it would've been fun if the barrier was called argus. it would've been a fun flavor point.

reference

lachesis, clotho, and atropos are the three moirai, or the fates, and they would assign individual destinies to mortals at birth. clotho was the spinner, which means she was in charge of the thread. lachesis was the allotter, which meant that she would distribute the mortal's fate. and lastely atropos the inflexible, which meant that she would not compromise someone's fate no matter how much they begged. one would spin the thread, another would measure it, and the third one cuts it. in some myths, they were the daughters of nyx, the goddess and personification of night. they had enormous power and even zeus was unable to recall their decisions.

reference

fun fact, this isn't the first time they were mentioned.

they were mentioned throughout the entire game, but the more memorable one is during jamil's fairy gala vignette. no one really knows how old the fates are. they can either be really old or really young, depending on certain myths. also it's fun flavor points when the threads of fate are mentioned.

one more fun fact, the moirai sometimes gets confused with the gray sisters. in the movie hercules, disney combined the gray sisters with the moirai for some reason. the gray sisters, who were extremely old women that shared one eye and one tooth, only showed up once in mythology and that was to give directions to perseus to find the gorgon medusa. the gray sisters at first refused until perseus took their eye and tooth and threatened to tell him where she was, which they agreed. the moirai were perfectly in tact and didn't need to share an eyeball. or a tooth.

yes but also no. i think i've mentioned this before, but the titans do predate the olympic gods, but they weren't the original gods. they were the twelve original children from the primordial parents uranus (the god of the sky) and gaia (the goddess of the earth). it would've been really cool to see the primordial gods that even predate the titans, but disney is trying to tie it into the movies and therefore hates fun.

a cool mention of zeus's lightning bolt. i should mention that it was just a literal lightning bolt, not a thunder spear. nevertheless, it's a cool image to think of.

i should also point out that zeus did not single handedly seal the titans away. i mentioned it in my previous post, but zeus did have assistance from other gods and creatures to defeat the titans.

i get they're trying to connect it to the movie, but it would've been really fun to see the primordial gods in action. or at least be consistent with the actual titans. the only titan i can possibly think of that's the earth titan is maybe gaia, who is the goddess of the earth and is not a titan. the closest one of the phantom titans can come close to is coeus, who is the titan of inquisitive minds and intellect and the titan of the north, can be tied to the ice titan and maybe the magma titan can be tied to perses, the god of destruction. otherwise, there really isn't any correlation from these titans to the greek myth titans.

i think some of the phantoms are supposed to be nods to the disney movies. this one, however, i think is a nod to mythology. it's very similar to king midas, who as many know is a king who was able to turn anything he touched to solid gold. it was a blessing and a curse, as he accidentally turned his favored daughter into pure solid gold. he didn't have any correlation to hades, but this is mainly just for fun.

now i'm gonna just write it out because i either forgot to screencap it or i just didn't think it was necessary. idia mentions that no mortals can enter the gates to the underworld, which is somewhat true. there have been stories where mortals will enter into the underworld to reclaim their lost loved ones, such as the story of orpheus and eurydice. it's not uncommon, but it is rare for mortals to go into the underworld unless they're already dead.

the gates of the underworld is an interesting unique magic to have. mostly because of how media portrays it. rick riordan does a good job in depicting the gate to the underworld as being a door that's heavily guarded so no monsters or undead can enter through it. i believe thanatos guards it in the books, but my memory is hazy so forgive me.

i forgot to screen cap this part, but during idia's backstory when he recreated ortho, he mentioned about the hero going to the underworld to save his lover. this does happen occasionally, as i mentioned orpheus and eurydice. (tbh i legit thought idia was talking about them but then i remembered it was a movie tie in so whoops.) heracles does go into the underworld to retrieve a wife, but it wasn't his wife megara (extremely complicated and not going to get into the details. if you're curious, you can ask me and i will infodump.), but a wife of one of the kings that was one of heracle's friends. back in the day, the gods would take pity on mortals and would revive their lovers back from the dead. i don't think there's one for siblings, and i kinda feel bad for idia to hope that a god will revive his brother back to him.

what is pretty cool about the chapter titles is that each word at the end of the sentence rhymed. i don't remember if the other books had that, but it's pretty neat and it reminds me a lot of how greek plays, especially the chorus, would rhyme out loud during their performance. it was a nice nod to the greek and roman plays. (i studied them in college. it was an interesting experience.)

one thing i will critique is that i wished the towers were done a bit differently. in the underworld, there are three tiers within the underworld: asphodel, elysium, and the fields of mourning. it would've been really cool to see different landscapes that doesn't look so... stale? the technology part of it is pretty neat to look at, but seeing a lush meadow and experiencing a different side to the underworld would've been really cool to see. however, i understand budget issues and all that, but it still would've been nice to see.

and that's it! i might have missed some things, but it's already getting long. longer than the first one i think. if you want any clarifications or you want me to delve deeper into a myth i mentioned in passing, feel free to ask me and i'll do into much more detail as i possibly can. otherwise, hopefully everyone enjoyed the book and everyone enjoyed my little rants and explanations.

#twisted wonderland #twst #book 6 spoilers #book 6 #i went on a very long rant on greek mythos but it was fun nonetheless #holy shit did this book take so long to complete

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