#and my parents are essentially full time caregivers

[itspileofgoodthings]

If Jane Austen could write about my family from the outside and I could read it then maybe I would be healed.

#moving out has helped! but is there is not a new social life/core for me yet #maybe ever? idk #but within the actual family unit there is ….. so much going on #so much suffering. so much change. unbelievable levels of stress and anxiety and depression #like I really cannot emphasize enOUGH how much #and my parents are essentially full time caregivers #and I both want to help and be a stabilizing factor and I also want to be honest about how much of a toll it takes on me #because i think it’s A Lot #but also I don’t like modern rhetoric on any of these difficult topics and I reject it even though I use a lot of the language #hence why I need Jane Austen to do it for me #to bring this full circle #anyways if you could say a prayer for us. for my parents especially but also my sister #well all the sisters and my brothers! #anyway reflecting angsting etc. #tbh I would love to know the medium of the average family’s unhappiness and stress #Because I think ours is off the charts #But idk. Would love to know more tbh #I would love to know if a lot of it just the human condition! But sometimes I’m just like this is not normal lol #thanks for listening

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

AITA for making my mom cry (in the hopes of continuing a years (?) long lie)

starting off: BIG SHINY ED TW

Context/Background:

• I’ve had an ED (OSFED) since I was 14

• I went to treatment (forced) as a teen. I hold zero anger over this by now and understand why my parents did it. I would have done the same.

• Both times I coasted until discharge, at which point I went back to ED behaviors, just more secretively.

• I’m now 22(F), living w my parents

—

The Lead Up to The Predicament:

• Relapsed age 21, and kept it secret

• My mother eventually noticed, and recommended treatment; I agreed, & got taken into IOP

• I’m still on my parents’ very good insurance, so treatment was covered pretty much entirely

• I did treatment with the same strategy I’ve used before: coasting until discharge, then keeping it secret. I have no intention of ever pursuing actual recovery, and do not believe it is possible. I don’t want to get rid of this problem, but I want it to be my problem only.

• Unfortunately, this means I essentially have to lie to everyone, because they won’t discharge you if you say “I’m doing this purely so I won’t run myself into the ground, and so my mom will leave me alone”. So I lied my ass off.

• I’m continuing to lie to my nutritionist, who recently approved me for “as-needed” appointments, and I kept putting off finding a therapist until my mom forgot and stopped asking about it, because I just don’t have the energy to continually lie to a therapist, and conversely, I don’t want to actually, honestly talk to a therapist.

—

The Predicament:

• Bill for $600 (part not covered by insurance) came from the treatment center

• Mom offered to pay it; I said no, I’ll pay for it

• Did this because I could not live with the guilt of my mom paying for treatment that she thinks actually put me on a path towards health, that I secretly used to lull her into a false sense of security

• She insists, and I insist back

• I pay it that night

• She finds out I paid it and breaks down crying because she thinks I did it because I assumed she couldn’t afford it and now she thinks she has failed me because I don’t think I can rely on my mother

• I try to explain that I’m an adult and it was my issue and my treatment and that I work full time and should be expected to pay my own medical copays

• This makes her feel worse and she expresses that my trying to pay my own way has been a pattern since I first got a job at 14, and that she should’ve asserted herself as a financial caregiver when she had the chance

• I freeze, because I don’t know how to explain what I really mean without admitting that I lied for months in an attempt to get people to stop worrying about an admittedly possibly-fatal illness

• I let her continue to cry

—

AITA FOR: Not explaining and just… letting her believe that?

What are these acronyms?

#aita #am i the asshole #eating disorder cw

[serialadoptersbracket]

Round 2, Match 61: Phoenix Wright vs. The Dragonborn

Submitted kids:

Phoenix Wright: Confirmed: Pearl Fey, Trucy Wright (Arguably: Maya Fey, Apollo Justice, Athena Cykes)

The Dragonborn: Alesan, Blaise, Lucia, Sofie, Runa Fair-Shield, Hroar, Samuel, and Francois Beaufort are all the official adoption candidates. Theoretically, though, Dragonborn can adopt any kid in Skyrim as long as their caregivers are dead.

Propaganda under the cut!

Phoenix Wright:

1. “his mentor dies leaving behind her teenage sister hes like 'my sister now' teenage sister's aunt is arrested, and her 9yo cousin needs looking after 'say no more' dudes entire career comes crashing down around him at the same time a dude abandons his daughter 'looks like i have a reason to live now'”

2. “Tired old man (he’s 35) single lawyer dad of two other lawyers and a famous magician. Absolutely unhinged but appears Normal™️. Constantly embarrasses himself and is routinely assaulted and verbally abused in court but wins all his cases anyway (and he only forged evidence like twice!). Runs his own law firm (possible front for adopting more children?) and has 100% faith in his kids and his clients (two categories that overlap wayyyy too often, he and his family are constantly being framed for murder). He has a dumb hairstyle and no one ever lets him forget it. Phoenix has eaten glass before and would probably do so again. He has also survived falling from a 40-foot burning bridge into an ice-cold river, being the victim of a hit-and-run, and nearly being executed by a foreign government twice. Plus he’s bisexual and suffers from gay angst disease. Phoenix Wright is God’s favorite and he should be yours too!”

3. “Phoenix legally adopted Trucy and has just been taking kids without parents into his law agency ever since. Also if you consider him and Edgeworth to be together, then Edgeworth also essentially adopted Kay Faraday, so that's another one right there.”

4. “He's a lawyer. He adopts a little sister after her sister (his boss) dies. His client runs out on him so he does the logical thing and adopts the daughter he left behind even as his life falls apart. He meets her biological brother and manipulates him into joining his found family. I have no idea how he met teenage Lawyer Athena but that's his daughter now too.”

(Mod note: Full propaganda list coming soon!)

The Dragonborn:

“Dragonborn can adopt any two children - begging street urchins, orphans suffering an Annie-like predicament, any child they decide to relieve from their caregivers. And while it isn’t canon, there are mods to remove the “only two kids” limit. As a playable character, Dragonborn is a reflection of the desires and values of those that control them. Therefore, they reflect the tendency to serially adopt from “serial adopter” players: they take kids off the streets, assassinate the cruel orphanage boss so they adopt the children there, they might even kill the abusive Lemkil to give Sissel and Britte a better home. (And in a modded playthrough, they remove the adoption limit so they don’t have to choose between all the sympathetic children they want to shelter in their many houses; seriously that limit sucks when you have multiple children’s rooms that go empty.)”

#ace attorney #phoenix wright #the great ace attorney #dovahkiin #the dragonborn #elder scrolls #elder scrolls v #skyrim #elder scrolls v skyrim #serial adopters bracket #round 2 #tumblr tournament #tumblr polls

[gatheringbones]

[“There is no such thing as a baby,” the British pediatrician D. W. Winnicott once said, explaining, “If you show me a baby, you certainly show me someone else who is caring for the baby . . . One sees a ‘nursing couple’ . . . The unit is not the individual, the unit is the individual-environment set-up.” Or, in Ashley Montagu’s words, “When a baby is born, a mother is born. There is considerable evidence that at this time, and for months thereafter, her needs for contact exceed those of the infant.”

Good thing, too: Were there not built-in physiological and emotional incentives for the ones doing the caregiving, parenthood would be even more of a slog than it already is. Fewer babies would have their survival needs met if fulfilling those needs were not rewarding for parents. With its usual brilliance, our interpersonal-biological makeup dictates that our requirements be mutual. (One of the unfortunate impacts of our culture’s way of doing things is that stress tends to whittle down these innate rewards, making parenting more frustrating and daunting than it rightly ought to be.)

The poet Adrienne Rich expressed the profound joys of this reciprocal design: “I recall the times when, suckling each of my children, I saw his eyes open full to mine, and realized each of us was fastened to the other, not only by mouth and breast, but through our mutual gaze: the depth, calm, passion, of that dark blue, maturely focused look. I recall the physical pleasure of having my full breast suckled at a time when I had no other physical pleasure in the world except the guilt-ridden pleasure of addictive eating.” Neurobiologically, Rich was right on target. On imaging studies, a baby’s smile will light up the same reward areas in the mom’s brain activated by junk foods or addictive drugs, releasing the same pleasure chemicals and triggering the same high. Nature, that unscrupulous drug-pusher.

Like all complex brain structures, mammalian bonding systems—whether of whales or chimps or rats or humans—are experience-dependent for their development and activation. For the brain circuits of nurturing to function—to “come on line,” as it were—the environment must evoke and then sustain them. Both men and women have latent child-nurturing circuits in their brains, “waiting for the right environment to amplify their potentials,” in the words of neuroscientist Jaak Panksepp—he of the PANIC/GRIEF, PLAY, and CARE nomenclature. Dr. Panksepp identified and mapped the specific brain centers, circuits, connections, and associated neurochemicals that choreograph what he called “the enchanting ballet of emotions between a mother and her infant.” These include chemical messengers such as vasopressin, oxytocin, and endorphins—the body’s natural opiates—all of which awaken in parents nurturing habits that are essential to the survival of the young. Recall, these are the chemicals that, blended, form a “love cocktail” released by natural labor. Skin-to-skin contact and suckling also elicit their flow in the mother. The physiology of infant and parent is thus co-regulated by their interactions, and the effect of these interactions—or their absence—can be imprinted in the young human for a lifetime. Likewise, in the dearth of such interactions, parenting instincts may become muted, with long-term consequences for the parent-child relationship. In this, as in other crucial ways, our culture has become contact-starved.”]

gabor maté, from the myth of normal: trauma, illness, and healing in a toxic culture, 2022

#gabor maté #brainspace #currently reading #mothers can and do love mothering and denying them access to mothering is violence

[eldritch-spouse]

That ask where you wrote about the reactions from the staff to you getting sick, in the ask you mentioned Vinnel getting abandoned in the past? Is there any more information that you haven’t told us yet of his past/childhood and what he was doing before working for the clergy? I always want to know more cus vinnel and fank-e are my favourites :D

TW: Child neglect, child abuse, violence, murder.

Vinnel was your standard slime kid for a portion of his childhood life. He came from upper class parents who, up until that point, seemed to be perfectly loving and considerate.

Things started going downhill as soon as little Vinnel began to show signs of illness. Now, some slimes are late bloomers. They don't learn to control their form as early as the others, need more coaxing, more molds. Yet the more time passed, the worse Vinnel's physical shape seemed to get.

While he was cognitively developing faster than his peers, Vinnel's pretty reddish-orange hue was becoming dull, he could barely shape his own head some days, motor skills and accuracy deteriorating faster day by day. He refused to move too much and would often snap at his own friends, because every part of his body seemed to hurt no matter what he did. His slime rejected the light, the heat stung and the cold stabbed, the air itself felt stifling. He was never in a bright mood anymore, all he wanted to do was hide under his bed and play with his dolls, watch television, trying to ignore the chronic pain, the exhaustion, and the nagging of his own parents.

They told him to focus, to try, to stop throwing tantrums, that he was doing it on purpose because he was spoiled. Tension was high in that household, and arguments were frequent.

The moment Vinnel started developing odd growths in his body, teeth becoming crooked and eyes glassy, the moment his slime started turning pitch black- His parents did something that no caregiver ever should. They gave up on Vinnel entirely.

They ignored him. Neglected him. He lived with his parents, sure, but he was essentially alone. The neighbor's kids were given more attention than him. He was treated like a complete disappointment, a stain left to its own vices. And that was fine for Vinnel, he didn't trust his own parents, didn't want to love them, the little slime only ever felt safe in the comfort of his room, surrounded by the motionless dolls that could never pass judgement, and the fabrics that made his body hurt less as he lost pieces of himself wherever he went.

To this day, he's not sure if their end goal was to hope he would simply perish.

His condition started getting worse enough to the point where he had to resort to drastic measures, seeping inside of particularly large plushies to hold himself together, stealing full body suits to shield his eternally wounded self, fashioning bandages and cloths until he barely looked like a slime anymore. Just a mess of rags wandering around the streets silently. Without any sort of relief from both the physical and emotional distress he endured, Vinnel took to violence as an early way to cope with life. He would hurt anyone who got too close, those who provoked him, and even the poor things that couldn't defend themselves.

As he aged, Vinnel spent less and less time at home, often going entire weeks in abandoned places and hidden corners. People watching, dying inwardly with jealousy. Weeks become months, then years- And he's roaming around aimlessly, slipping on Halloween clown suits, leaving corpses in his wake. No one knows who the killer is because the evidence left behind is too ill to be identified. He becomes a bit of an urban legend. When he's not bringing misery to others, he's trying to pull off the same stunts he used to see on TV as a kid.

Vinnel is eventually picked up by Ludwig, Admin and Patches, when The Clergy's structure is finally set and the three are tasked with finding staff candidates. They happened to stumble upon the slime in an alley. Krulu sees something in him, an unchecked fury, bitterness rotting the monster to the core, a desire to maim and break and make everyone feel the pain he does.

It reminded the higher of himself.

Vinnel is offered a job several times. A chance for belonging, found family, an opportunity to get relief via inflicting suffering upon others, to be himself freely- The slime violently rejected every request, having to be pursued several times until Admin successfully corners him and, a tad forcefully, explains that his pain can be nulled. That the monster can feel normal again, go outside without having to worry about his consistency, doesn't he want it to stop? Isn't every waking second a chronic nightmare? Doesn't he wish others would take him seriously? Of course he does. And all of those can be attained with a simple price.

Swearing loyalty to krulu.

A deal is struck. Vinnel's suit is created.

The establishment gains a very dedicated, jolly and vicious worker.

#Vinnel oc #tw child abuse #tw child neglect #tw violence #tw murder

[obaewankenope]

are you ever gonna thank donors?? seriously its endless e-begging no working with YOU. when are you getting an actual job? to pay your bills??

I do try and thank people for helping me survive. I haven't in the past week or so because I've been very distracted by injury, meds issues, health problems, and the disruptiveness of living with a dysfunctional parent whom I essentially have to manage.

I would love to get a job and work but I have chronic health problems and, oddly enough, there's no employer willing to hire anyone in my town who would miss large amounts of work because of this. On top of that, I essentially look after my mother 24/7 because she needs a minder since she's dysfunctional to the max. I also don't drive because, again, mobility issues.

So, whilst I understand, anon, that you may be one of the people who has generously donated to help me manage unexpected bills, the cost of vet fees and cremation costs that weren't covered by the insurance because it didn't cover anything in the event of death, and car troubles (to name a few), I'm also aware that you may just as likely be a troll.

If you are someone who donated, here is me thanking you for doing so and telling you that I greatly appreciate you doing so because it helped me immensely.

If you are a troll, you need to find something more productive to do in life than bothering people for your own gratification.

Now, thankfully, I'm not horribly affected by anon messages of hate or nastiness or the like. Thankfully.

But, and this is the most important thing right now, you can't actually make me feel worse about having to beg for donations so I can survive. I already dispise that I have to do so, many times more than I ever thought I would, and I already hate that finding employment for me is an impossibility because I cannot work to the pattern required for steady employment.

You don't achieve much by sending this ask, anon, except to remind me to thank people more often for their kindness. But if you expect me to be on my hands and knees, screeching out my thanks when I'm dealing with being injured, grief from the unfair death of a puppy, financial difficulties from void insurance, and motor related problems, then you're a bit out of luck.

Because I have a finite amount of attention span and focus, and a lot of it is stolen by physical and mental health problems exhausting me. What remains is then taken up by my mother, the animals we have (most of whom I look after even though they are hers) and whatever else remains like cleaning (if and where possible).

I apologise that I don't remember to thank people as often as I should. I apologise that I see a notification, think "I'll thank them in a moment!" and then forget because something else takes priority like eating or feeding animals that depend on me.

I don't apologise, however, for being alive and I refuse to apologise for needing help to survive. Because I won't be made to hate myself any more than I do regularly because I have to ask for assistance.

If I didn't have health problems, if I didn't have a mother who relies on me to be her functionality and time keeper, perhaps I wouldn't need help from strangers on the Internet. Perhaps I would be able to work a steady job and be able-bodied and function in an ableist world that penalises otherness and disability.

But I don't.

I'm disabled.

I'm the primary caregiver to my mother who isnexperiencing more and more memory problems every day.

I'm the only child of hers that lives full-time with her and sees her deterioration that I try not to panic about because panicking won't help.

I am trying to survive and sometimes I don't have the focus, time, or energy, to thank everyone who helps me to do so as often as I wish, or you think I should. I can only apologise for that. I won't apologise for prioritising trying to survive however.

If you're a troll, enjoy this response. I'm sure you'll mock it.

If you're not a troll, but someone who donated to help me and feels like I haven't shown you enough gratitude for doing so, I hope this response conveys that I do appreciate it. I'm just trying to survive and, unfortunately, that's meant I haven't expressed that gratitude as much.

In conclusion, have a roaching Lady who has never roached with us before. She's at least happy and feels safe, which is something at least. I hope you consider this an expression of my gratitude for your generosity if you have donated to help me (and my mother and animals) survive.

#Anon #Anon talk #Kat replies #Kat answers #Long post #I don't know if this is a troll or not #I don't much care if it is #To those who donated and see this #I thank you for your kindness

[quelliee]

I've been thinking a lot about care recently.

Back in 2017 my partner started getting frequent migraines. By 2018 they became debilitating and I essentially became their full time caregiver. By the start of 2020 they were no longer incapacitated by migraines, but they were still struggling with mental health. I kept caring for them as if they were physically incapacitated because they simply refused to care for themselves.

I don't say this lightly because disability is often misinterpreted as obstinance, but in this case it was basically weaponized incompetence to get me to do things for them. They'd refuse to eat if I didn't make or order something they wanted. They'd go without meds if I didn't remind them if their appointment and then go to the pharmacy for them. Then they'd use being out of meds as a reason they needed me to do things for them. I did almost all of the cleaning, cooking, shopping, paying bills, and driving for a solid four years. Meanwhile they basically stopped talking to me. Any attempt at emotional intimacy was too distressing and they were simply uninterested in physical intimacy. It's as if I only existed when they wanted me to do something for them. Eventually two therapists and my sister finally helped me realize how manipulative they were being.

Anyhow, it wasn't until I finally moved out (the saga continues in an attenuated sense) that I realized just how exhausting it was to be the fulltime carer for someone like this. I was basically their parent without the authority of a parent. It was like trying to herd cats where if you do anything they'll start a fight and hurt each other. It was taking up all of my mental and emotional energy to the point that just showing up at work only to get nothing done was often the best I could manage.

It's been three months now and I'm still so, so exhausted. I guess this is probably more than just a matter of giving/receiving care, but I've never longed to be cared for so intensely in my life.

So I'm currently staying with my parents for the holidays. Normally I don't visit them for very long, but this year I'm staying with them for almost a month. It wasn't really thought out, I just suggested flight dates and they agreed. But I feel like this is partly a way to feel cared for after so many years of exclusively being the carer.

#Care #family #abuse #ipv #partner abuse #manipulation #emotional abuse #ugh i'm tired #time for a nap

[gasolineghuleh]

I personally see the ghouls as functioning essentially like a colony of feral cats; they all communally raise offspring, but they still have spouses/mates, (the more possessive ones are monogamous, but a good majority are polyamorous; throuples are the most common type of relationship, but I could see the band ghouls all sharing a partner together, wether they’re human or ghoul) and are seen as the main caregivers of the kits they have together; basically they all help to raise the kits but they still have a concept of parents/mom and dad, or at least two caregivers they’re the closest to.

I always see people mentioning ghoul dens, and I know logically that probably just means the dormitory where they live, but in my head it’s a giant cave with an entrance in a shady corner of the gardens, with twisting tunnels that lead to little alcoves, with furs on the ground and candles on the walls, that they use to sleep/mate in; the cave is magical, ofc, so if another ghoul is born or summoned, a new tunnel/alcove just pops up for them to move into. They also probably sleep in piles sometimes, with friends/family, so you’ll have parents, kits, the friends of those kits, the parents of the friends, grandparents, and maybe even siblings and cousins all sleeping in a giant pile in one alcove, so you can see how it can quickly turn into basically all the ghouls sleeping in one room; think a home-alone-sized family all sleeping in one hotel room.

I feel like problems might arise for hybrids, as they’re too off putting and give too much of an uncanny valley vibe for them to stay with the human siblings all the time, but they’re also too human to stay with the ghouls all the time. I imagine that, once the hybrid is old enough to leave their parent’s den, they go off to a completely separate hybrid dormitory next to or attached to where the witches live; as you said, I hypothesis the ghoul in them makes them more magically unpredictable, so i think they probably fit in more with the witches than they ever will with the humans or ghouls. I imagine this must be quite a lonely feeling, as they don’t feel wholly connected to either parent or either world/species, so it’s hard for them to form a solid identity and they might feel adrift in the world. A lot of ghoul parents probably essentially abandon the poor kid, as most hybrids kits are probably the result of a one night stand and weren’t at all planned.

On the bright side, moving into the hybrid/witch dorms probably leads to strong friendships and tag teams within the hybrids because they all share similar upbringings/origins/sentiments. Imagine the kind of trouble these vaguely demonic and almost witchy kids could get up to! They’d be such a handful, probably on par with an unsupervised drunk Terzo lmao!

Okay I left this in my inbox for a few days because wow WOW that's so many cool ideas and I just wanted to ABSORB them before I answered!

The magically unpredictable portion is definitely huge in my mind as well, because I love thinking about the little kits running around zapping shit on accident. Their keepers or parents having to swoop in with a fire extinguisher behind them. They just travel with ziplock baggies full of treats and cards that say "Teething! Thanks for patience!" to give out to people instead of explaining.

I love the the coven raised thing is catching on cause I think it's so cute. I know there are those of us who feel called to teach and raise kids, but not have any of our own. It's somewhere that I would find myself quite often, honestly...

I think of the den entrance almost the same way! For me, I think of it as a rusty iron grate in the floor of the main hall of the Abbey, tucked behind some rocks and vines. The stairs leading down are steep stone in a spiral column, overgrown with moss and vines towards the top, and slick with ground water towards the bottom.

[claimbo]

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#youtube

[stabby-potato]

RWBY Legacy AU idea

For a long time now I've been thinking on an concept for a RWBY AU, without doing much about it, so I figured that I might as well share its founding details here.

I've been working on this for long enough to have touched a wide portion of the RWBY's character, world, plot. This post is some of my ideas for Team RWBY themselves. Mainly differences to their family situation and backstories.

Ruby & Yang (the STRQ fam):

The question that started all this was 'what if Qrow had run away instead of Raven?', the logic being that his semblance could bring harm to loved ones, while Raven's could bring her home instantly, contradicting the life paths they took in canon.

In this AU, Raven never left Tai and the family, she even agreed to keep doing jobs for Ozpin under a number of conditions (including being the best paid huntress in Vale).

With Tai not moving on to Summer, Ruby needs a new justification to be born, which Qrow can neatly fit into as her AU father. It helps that Ruby's father having run away matters a lot more to her than if he was an uncle she'd never met.

So to start, Raven stayed and Qrow fathered Ruby. He ended up running away after an accident that was undeniably caused by his semblance injured the pregnant Summer. Unable to take his bad luck into a hospital, Qrow was left behind as Summer was rushed away. As the doctors cut a premature Ruby out of Summer, Qrow disappeared to prevent it happening again, abandoning his partner alone, having never even met their new child.

Years pass and Summer still dies, leaving a parentless Ruby in Tai & Raven's care.

Having two parents instead of a wounded father and wayward uncle gives the girls a more stable childhood, though not necessarily a better one.

On Yang's side of things, she still steps up to be Ruby's sister, especially in supporting her parents loss, but she doesn't need to take the extra step and be a caregiver to Ruby. Yang has less need to be responsible and more desire to be the extra cool big sister. Additionally, just because Raven stayed doesn't make her a good mother. Their relationship is tense and full of fights, with Yang running full tilt into teenage rebellion. In this AU, Yang wasn't at Junior's club to find her mother, but to escape from her.

Ruby, at first glance is the same as canon, the cheerful girl. But there's more hiding behind her smile, the pain of not having her parents, and desperate desire to know why. Ruby is still attached to fairytales and stories of brave heroes, its an escape from the harsh realities of huntsmen life and lessons by the cynical Raven. To those who first meet Ruby, her gothic attire doesn't match her at all, but it fits all too well for those familiar with Ruby.

Weapon-wise, without Qrow to teach the scythe, Ruby still ended up developing Crescent Rose the sniper rifle, but its crossed with a naginata instead, taking inspiration from Raven's eastern katana.

A bonus, that I've considered but is not essential to this AU, is the idea that Silver Eyes pass similar to the Maidens, only one a time, passed to a relative on death or blinding. This idea came about to prevent the possibility of a large silver eyed clan, with dozens of members who can wipe Grimm with ease. Its also dramatically appropriate for the AU, Ruby could've been born with red eyes, only turning silver with Summer's death. The balance of aangst and mystery depending on whether or not Ruby was old enough to remember it happening.

Aaand that is the beginning of my AU concept, if you'd be interested in hearing more, I have it. Asks are also welcome, if I haven't thought of an answer already, you might spur me to come up with something.

Coming up, changes to Weiss & Blake, and some light worldbuilding on why Remnant has such a multicoloured population, with possibilities like pink eyes and naturally occuring streaks in your hair.

[realtalksk]

Identifying Child Development Issues and Setting Your Teen Up For Success

In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri, a Board-Certified Pediatrician at Senders Pediatrics for over 21 years.  They discuss parenting at different stages.  The conversation includes detecting developmental issues,, the ideal course of action to manage developmental issues, and effective means to make parenting easier. Links Mentioned In the Show:

Senders Pediatrics

Help Me Grow (National)

Help Me Grow (Ohio)

KJK Student Defense

Show Notes:

How to spot developmental issues in your child early on (02:21)

Crawling: Is it really a milestone? (04:07)

When should your child be able to say their first words? (05:33)

The organization which provides free infant & toddler screening for any developmental, physical issues, etc. (06:31)

The best type of play for your child according to a pediatrician (07:01)

Why how a child plays alone is not an indicator of a developmental issue (08:39)

The age at which parents need to start observing for signs of developmental issues in their kids (10:14)

Why early intervention is key to helping your child manage developmental issues (10:35)

Early recognition of attention deficit disorder (ADD) and oppositional defiant disorder in children (12:16)

Why spanking is a form of discipline that actually does more harm than good (15:50)

The most effective way to discipline kids Dr. Bucchieri has found to be (17:11)

When you know you need to seek professional help for your child (19:13)

Why the parent of caregiver’s perspective is essential in diagnosis (21:56)

Social warning signs that can potentially be indicators of autism spectrum disorder (23:00)

How to foster independence in kids (25:26)

Why parents should allow their kids to be more autonomous when it comes to homework (27:48)

Family meetings and their significance in intervention (29:30)

Distinguishing the fine line between over-parenting and regular support for your children (31:04)

Why Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri recommends teaching money management to teens before college (32:51)

Sleep and its role in your child’s development (33:26)

Factors to consider when discerning whether or not to allow your teen to get their license (36:15)

Why every parent should follow Senders Pediatrics (38:43)

Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Kristina Supler. We're full-time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversations. Today's topic is understanding normal child development from birth to college. From the perspective of our guest speaker, Dr. Elizabeth Bucchieri affectionately known to us as our friend Zizzy. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Hi, thank you so much for having me 

Kristina Supler: Zizzy, we're so pleased to have you with us today. For our listeners out there, Zizzy has been a pediatrician for the last 21 years at Senders Pediatrics. She's she's one smart cookie. She went to Princeton university and then Columbia college of physicians and surgeons.

Kristina Supler: She completed her residency at Johns Hopkins. She has two grown children and she's an, I have really had the pleasure of getting to nosy better through a women's retreat weekend that we participated on at, in, at a camp in New Hampshire, it was a blast and we spent time hiking and doing fun outdoor activities and got to knows Izzy better.

Kristina Supler: So we're so pleased to have you join us today in your capacity as a pediatrician. Thanks for joining us. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Thank you for having me. 

Susan Stone: I'm going to start with an age group that I haven't had the privilege of being with now that my kids are old, it's birth through toddler, the toddler years, those cute little people.

Susan Stone: Can you tell us? It's so hard to know, and I hate using this word, but what is considered and I'm quote, unquote, normal childhood development from birth through the toddler years and what are signs of what might be a developmental issue? 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Sure. So like you said, there's, you don't want to pin people too much into normal and abnormal.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And I do think a lot of parents these days really look at these trackers and milestone sheets and get nervous sometimes if their kids aren't doing exactly what said. So given that there's a big range of normal there are some good guides. You can go on, like the CDC has a milestone guide that you can go on. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: But basically, babies around six weeks of age, start to do a little bit of a social smile back at you, which is very nice and some cooing. And then around six months of age, they started to include some consonants like Baba, dada, Gaga. And then their language starts to sound like a foreign language that you can't understand.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Like they say. But they're definitely telling you something and it's cute. And then you can go back and forth and say, oh really? I like that too. And then they chat back and forth with you. And then around a year, you start to get the sense that they understand you pretty well. So you could say something about their shoe and they look at their shoe or the dog, and they look at the dog. Or you say it's time to eat and they get excited.

Susan Stone: So the receptive language needs to come in. Does it need to come in or does come in before the expressive language? 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Always the receptive language comes before the expressive. And also if they're receptive language, is there. I have parents quiz their kids a little bit. If they're reading a book to the kid and they say, where's the dog ear, where's the tree.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Or, you know, on their own body, where's your head, where's your tummy, where's your toes. Then they know those words. They know head tummy, toes, even if they can't say the words. And if they know the words, then you don't have to worry so much if they're late talkers. 

Susan Stone: Before we move on, I just would have a question because I've heard a controversy about this. Crawling: is it a milestone or not? Do you have to crawl before you walk? Or can you skip it and scoot, and then walk because I've been hearing that it actually is important for that child's brain development to have that cross lateral motion. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Yeah. I mean, I think you're right, that there is some controversy about it.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And most kids do crawl before they walk. But there are some, I've definitely had some patients who do this thing I call the sit in, scoot and they sit and they do this funny thing with their legs and their knees and they get themselves around. A lot of times, I think it's kids who have older siblings and they don't see the older siblings crawling, but they see the older siblings walking.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So they are, and they don't see the, so they see the older kids sitting and they see the older kid walking and they just kind of sit and zoom around. And then they are dying to stand up and walk. But I do think probably if you talk to a physical therapist, they would say what you said about it's important to have the cross lateral motion, et cetera, et cetera.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: But I, the kids I've had who sit in, scoot and stand and run seem to be doing fine. But most kids do crawl before. Yeah. So in terms of the gross motor development, they, they roll route between four and six months and sit on their own around six months. Then they get from sitting into the crawling position around seven to eight months and pulling to stand at nine months and then usually taking some independent steps between 12 months and 15 months.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And then look out. They're running and climbing and getting into everything. 

Kristina Supler: Zizzy, one last question on this discussion of, basically birth to early toddler, developmental milestones. What about speech? At what age should your child articulate their first word? 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Right? So that's, that's usually between 12 and 15 months that they're saying, and they, they call it a w sometimes a word approximation.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So like, they'll say 'ba' that means bottle or bubble or baby or ball. But you see them looking at the ball and they say BA, and you're like, yes, that's your ball. And it is good to fill it out as cute as this stuff is that they say try to say the real word that they're trying to say. Cause then that'll help them say the real word.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And then usually by 15, 18 months, they start to really pile up the vocabulary. And that's right around when like 15 to 18 months, if they're not hitting those milestones, the pediatric there's usually a 15 month visit and an 18 month visit the pediatrician. If there's any concerns that the child is not first of all understanding. Cause that's the most important thing that they're, that they're not understanding language or they're not trying to communicate. Then the pediatrician would probably recommend some more evaluation. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And one good first step is something called Help Me Grow, which is a free service through the county that sends a team of people, usually one person to start, but to your house and can do an assessment. And if the child needs any extra help, they can do speech therapy, physical therapy, occupational therapy. They're amazing.

Susan Stone: Talk about what is normal play because, who said "Play is the work of a child"? The founder of the movement.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Yeah. I mean that, that's their job, right. Their job is to play. And I do think that's important for parents to remember. Because especially nowadays everything is, am I giving my kid enough stimulation? Are they doing enough classes? Are they in enough things? Gonna teach them their foreign language? But really they just sort of need a Tupperware and a spoon and a paper towel tube, and they'd be happy.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: You know, you remember like the example of, you know, on the holidays when the kids are unwrapping the presents. They like the wrapping paper better than the presents half the time. So a lot of open-ended play. I am a big fan of, things where the toy can be played with many different ways. My favorite present for a toddler is, is, a set of blocks that are in multiple shapes, like the squares and rectangles and the triangles and circles.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And there is some good studies to show that for girls, if they play with more blocks and puzzles, they're going to be better at math in the end. Because it will help them with sort of geometry down the road and they can, the kids can play with it very open-ended. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Like my, I had two daughters and they love to build houses for their stuffed animals with the blocks. And then we'd have boys over and they'd build ramps for cars with the blocks. And, you can do a lot of different things with them, but you don't have to do what the package says. Cause they're, open-ended.

Susan Stone: What's abnormal play? Yeah. What would be assigned if you look at a child, do you agree that if you see the child, let's say lining the blocks up in a line, should you be freaking out what grade? 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Yeah. That I would say no. You know, that, that alone a lot of kids like to line stuff up. No, certainly there are some kids on the autistic spectrum that can get very, into certain, certain toys and having them in a certain way. But that, that wouldn't be like the major red flag. Usually it's a little bit more of in terms of autism that they're not understanding you. They're not wanting to communicate. There's poor eye contact. There's sort of more to it than that.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And then they may have some like hand flapping motions, but, uh, but that can also be in the neuro-typical range too. Like the kids get excited. So it, for autism it's tricky because it's, there's a lot of things that, that can be normal or can be on the spectrum and you have to kind of put the whole package together.

Kristina Supler: Zizzy, many of our clients, our students on the spectrum of all different ages, and it's not unusual for students to come to us families, I should say. And, and there's some challenges the students experiencing. And, after some more digging and evaluation and meeting with various professionals, the child is diagnosed as having, autism being on the autism spectrum. 

Kristina Supler: So you've, you've mentioned some red flags or signs or behaviors for parents to look for. Is there a certain age when this issue of autism should really be on the radar of parents or a certain age when a child can really be evaluated for autism?

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Yeah, I mean, I guess I would say 15 months, you can, I'll sometimes start to get a little wondering about it. But then I usually try to give them til 18 months to pull everything together. But around 18 months, if they're not pointing at things, if they're not understanding you, if they're not, if they're not trying to communicate, then I would, I would start the evaluation at that age. Because number one, early intervention is huge.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And, and can really help a child out. And then unfortunately there's waiting lists for a lot of these things. If you have any concerns, it's much better to get referred to a, to a development. For mean, you usually start with a speech therapist, but then if there's more concerns to get referred, we'll talk to your pediatrician, but then get referred to a developmental pediatrician.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And that could sometimes take several months to get in. And I'd love to have that done by two. So that then if the child was eligible for some early intervention preschool there's, as you guys know, there's some finances involved in it. And so it's good to get that. I would say try to get it done, or at least started by two.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And then by three, for sure. Cause that's a lot of times when the preschool start is at three and everything just takes times. 

Susan Stone: Everything takes time. That's great advice. Well, we're going to leave the baby years and get to elementary school, which I kind of consider the golden years of having children because second graders. 

Susan Stone: It was Kristina and I, this year got certified in positive discipline. Because frankly we wanted to be able to talk to our clients because we have a lot of meltdowns from students that we represent because they're under so much pressure. And we kind of want to focus early on what is considered normal acting out though versus early signs of ADD or oppositional defiant disorder. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Well, what I would say is in those, in that three to five year age group, There, they talk about like two-year-olds and temper tantrums, you know, you sort of expect some temper tantrums from two year olds and even three-year-olds are pretty, you may have heard of the term threenager. So two year olds, they're not always able to communicate so well, but they do have their needs.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And often if they're hungry and tired, they just completely fall on the ground crying. And one of your guests, like, I can't remember. I think it was the the positive episode on positive discipline. They talked about how the, some of the main reasons why children's misbehave or being hungry and tired. And I really do believe that's the case. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So I am a big fan of getting them enough sleep and then trying to make sure they're eating food with protein and fat. Because if they just eat their carbs, which they love. And the crackers and the noodles. 

Susan Stone: I love goldfish 

Kristina Supler: is smiling because you're saying the main reason for misbehavior among children is being hungry and tired.

Kristina Supler: And I think the same is probably true for adults as well. Of course, excluding present company. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Yeah, of course. I remember. I remember one time literally. Yelling full volume yelling at my daughter. And I said, "You're acting like a child."

Kristina Supler: No, mom, you are.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: She actually was a child.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: I 

Susan Stone: see the signs of ADD and ODD. Because we deal with those issues and when they become difficult issues. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Sure. Yeah. Technically speaking, you're not even supposed to diagnose ADD until six years old. Just from the criteria, but there definitely are families where the one parent has it, a sibling has it. And the kid is just running around the room, just tearing the place up.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Where you kind of know they're going down that path. But typically I don't recommend diagnosing until six. But occupational therapy is actually the first step in helping children with ADHD bef you know, before you get, even get into medication. So I would definitely refer a kid who's in the, the three to five range who can not sit still and having a hard time paying attention to occupational therapy as a first step, towards either helping them mature and helping them, get things together. Or if not a first step in kind of treatment. And then oppositional defiant disorder is probably a little out of my realm of diagnosis.

Kristina Supler: What about this hypothetical? You have a family, uh, with a child who's five or six. You, the family doesn't go to restaurants because the child just restaurants, it's like sensory overload. For whatever reason, the child can't handle the restaurant. Struggled to have play dates. The child just doesn't listen.

Kristina Supler: Boundaries. Parents just struggled to have boundaries and in parents sort of get to that breaking point where, oh my gosh, I'm at my wit's end. You know, the mother or father, what do I do? My child doesn't listen. I have to make my child listen. I'm going to spank them. Cause that's the only thing my child responds to.

Kristina Supler: What is your in of course, recognize that spanking is controversial. I mean, do you have thoughts on that for discipline? 

Susan Stone: My parents deny it, but I was spanked. They'll deny it, guys.. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Although, luckily, luckily I do feel like that doesn't come up that much anymore. I do feel like people have just kind of started to realize that spanking just doesn't work. Because then the children will just start hitting either you or their siblings.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: But I just don't feel like in the last 10 years that has really come up that much, or maybe people are just not admitting it. But I feel like, I feel like that message has kind of gotten to people that's that hitting a child doesn't in the end make anything better besides the short term, you know, they'll be scared.

Susan Stone: Time Outs don't work either. I got to tell you, they did not today when everybody has such a great bedroom or just. It never worked on my kids time out. 

Susan Stone: Or they stood on the stairs. Okay.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: I tried to do it a little bit, like for the young kids, the kids that are, pre-verbal like, kind of in the one to two year range where they're hitting. I just try to do timeouts, usually just for hitting and biting.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: The two big baddies, I call it like a sports analogy, like the flagrant foul, if they really are doing something. Cause you know, there's kind of like the, the noodling and the poking and the pestering. But like if they walk up to the brother and just whack them on the head, that has to be addressed.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And I try to tell people that you just pick up the child. You say don't use the word. No, because they love to say no. And you just say. You're hitting hurts. Your biting hurts. You're having a timeout. You hold them in your lap, facing out, close your eyes and count just to have read many seconds they are old. You know, 60 seconds for a year, 120 for two years.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And that's it. And then it's done. There's no lecture. There's no sermon. There's no step. There's no chasing them. There's no sending them to the room. It's that quick. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And if you can kind of stick with that for a couple of weeks and have all the caregivers do it, which is tough, the babysitter, the grandparents, then they usually don't they, then they usually phase out that, that behavior. 

Kristina Supler: Well, we, we so often, you know, you hear this idea of like, it, it, it all starts at home. And it's so true. There's of course exceptions and, and unique challenges and circumstances that influence child development. But more often than not, if you spank, you might get a kid who hits. You yell at your kids, you're going to, you know, foster that behavior and your child's gonna yell at others. 

Kristina Supler: And so I think it's, it's really good for parents to think about that. Of how their behavior, you know, is a model for, for children and of course we all have room improvement.

Susan Stone: Right. I want to, I want to challenge you. I think that's all well and good. But I have Dean, especially in my special education practice, a real uptick and kids who just can't calm down. We have been fighting for placements that were never thought of such as wilderness therapy never thought of in the elementary school ages.

Susan Stone: I think since COVID, the behaviors are getting much worse. I think parents are on edge. And I think all parents are doing what they can do. And I think in the past that might've been right, Kristina. But I'm going to challenge both of you on that. What do you do when you have a really out of control kid and you yourself are on your last piece of gas in your tank?

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Right. Well, that was even where Kristina started out, you know, the child who can't go to the restaurant, can't do play dates, having a hard time. I mean, that's definitely outside the normal realm. And then you, I think you really do need help, you know, and I usually have people start with getting a pediatric psychologist involved. Sometimes even just to work with the parent and then coach the parent through how to manage things or what is, you know, a lot of times children with anxiety show up as being oppositional. You know, they're, they're stubborn. Beyond belief, but it turns out it's stemming from anxiety and they're so afraid or frightened that they just don't want to do whatever it is.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So, so if, if you are feeling that you're at the end of your rope, it's time to call out for help. So check with your pediatrician. Try to get in with the child psychologist to help. And then sometimes they do need, a special education situation, like pep, like the positive education program for we've had, I've had some patients there where the children couldn't handle themselves in a regular school setting and they went into something like that. And then did and did really well.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: But right. I mean, there certainly are some kids who are not managing with the typical advice. And so if, if the typical advice isn't working that is often a sign that maybe there is something more going on now. 

Susan Stone: I think I want to do a shout out to our readers. It, I love what you said, Zizzy. If you feel that normal intervention is not working.

Susan Stone: Don't blame yourself. Get help.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Right. Right. Cause probably there's something more going on with that kid. When the regular advice, I did have one parent and she tries every last thing and the kid was so bright that it took a while to diagnose. At first they thought it was anxiety. Then they thought it was ADHD, but then it turned out it was autism as well.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: But the child is so bright that he kind of. Kind of tricked to everybody. 

Kristina Supler: It seems so often it's really important for parents to listen to their gut instincts. And when being told, you know, oh, your child is tired, moody, whatever. There's, there's nothing wrong. Cause. She gets great grades. He's thriving on the standardized testing. But you feel like something is not right.

Kristina Supler: Something is not right. It just, in our experience, it's so essential for parents to, to hold onto their gut instinct and keep digging and not settle, or rest, even when there's schools or maybe even a pediatrician and people saying, no, it's fine. It's fine. You're, you're a hypersensitive helicopter parents. But you know, those parenting instincts often serve as well.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Right. I, I, a hundred percent agree with that. My best teacher in residency told me that, you can do all the blood tests and MRIs and everything, but basically listen to the parent. Because if the parent has a concern for the most part, your job is to really dig into that concern and figure out what's going on. Because no parent really wants there to be a problem with their kid.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So if they're saying that they're worried, usually there's something to it now. I mean, certainly there can be exceptions and there can be some people that worry about things that are really fine and reassurance. There's a, there's a rule for reassurance, but I do agree. Most of the time really do have a great sense of their own kid.

Susan Stone: So what is the, I have a really interesting question that we all sort of led down this path. And then with those high functioning, autistic children, they're verbal early. They can really trick the system and they need early intervention. What would be the early signs to prepare us and that more high functioning level.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So that's, that's true. I mean, they're T they're tricky. That, that may be a little bit past me, but there, I think it's, I think it's, again, maybe the social piece. Are they interacting with peers? Are they, are they doing reciprocal play? Cause the kids go from the parallel play around two to between three and five they do the, the communal play where they're pretending to cook together or are they're pretending to be on a boat and on a trip. And, and they're having to communicate with each other in order to play.��

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And so if the kid really can't do that and some kids on the spectrum want to do things their own way with their own script, and they only want to talk about a certain toy or movie or something like that, but won't listen to what the other kid wants to do.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So I guess, especially with they're really verbal kid, but they're just not listening to the other kid. They're not taking the other kids' ideas and going with it. That I think that could be one of the big red flags for the very intelligent, very verbal kid who turns out to be on the spectrum. Okay. 

Susan Stone: So Kristina, why don't you, uh, launch our next topic. 

Kristina Supler: No pun intended. So let's fast forward. Now we we've talked about the early years. Let's move down the line and talk about teenagers. Okay. So students, perhaps college kids. Zizzy, I believe you've indicated that, you listened to our episode with Dr. Mark McConville author of "Failure to Launch" who is such a pleasure to have on as a guest. And he's just so respected and knowledgeable and offered such good wisdom and insight and in guidance. 

Kristina Supler: For those parents sort of wrestling with the issue of how to foster independence and responsibility and they're high school students, they're teens. So that come time to head off to college in the fall.

Kristina Supler: It's not a total disaster where the kids sleeping in late; spending too much money partying and all of a sudden the straight A student is getting F's. So what can parents do? What tips or, or strategies could you offer to help parents, began to foster those, important skills of independence and responsibility very early on to avoid the failure to launch situation.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And I did think that was a great episode. I highly recommend it for your listeners who haven't heard it. One thing that I sort of wish I had started a little earlier with my kids. So I'll say it for everybody else, but it is probably a good idea to start chores early on, like in the three to five-year-old range.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And it doesn't have three, doesn't have to be something huge, but it could be, you know, helping clean up toys, helping sort the laundry, set the table, they love to clean. So giving them a rag and clean. Yeah. And the Swiffers, you know, and the little even they make these funny little vacuum cleaners that kids can run that actually do pick up dirt and they love.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So they like that. And then in elementary school they can help take care of animals. They can help with the garbage, they can clean bathrooms. And then like in Montessori, the kids all make their own snack. And they can with a knife that you get from takeout, like a plastic knife, they can cut cucumbers and they can help make the salad.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: They do like to help with meal prep. And then I have a lot of patients whose kids pack their lunch for school. And they have a little algorithm. You know, you need a protein, you need a grain, you need a fruit and veggie. And they have them kind of set up in the fridge and little zones in the fridge. And the kids pack their lunch and they fill each little, you know, section of their lunch.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And they're, so they're starting with good nutrition and they're starting with meal meal responsibility too. And then the 

Kristina Supler: whole notion of just the simple task of pet, well, simple for an adult packing, a lunch involving school-aged child in that there's so many lessons in there. Executive function, planning, nutrition, all of that, just personal responsibility.

Kristina Supler: That's a really great tip for our listeners. 

Susan Stone: I've always had my children help with Friday night dinner. 

Kristina Supler: And that's another example. . 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Right. Like helping with cooking so that then when they get, when they get older, they can, be cooking some for themselves. 

Susan Stone: My daughter, when she went to college was shocked to learn that she was the only person who really could not only cook, but she's an excellent cook.

Susan Stone: And I take for granted the time I spend with my children, teaching them to be good cooks. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Yeah, so that's a good one. And then I'm, I'm also a huge advocate of parents getting out of the homework business. I really feel like starting in middle school, it should be, it should be between the child and the teacher, and it is not your job to know what the homework is and to check the homework and all of that and let the teacher do it and let the teacher know what's happening before they get to high school. Because the grades in middle school are so important.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So if they mess up a few things, it's okay. And, but then they're in charge of their own homework. Now I know it's easier said than done, and it's obviously easier with the more motivated kid. And if your kid isn't that motivated, you may have to be involved a little bit. But I would try to take some step back steps back in middle school with regard to homework.

Susan Stone: I have questions on that.

Susan Stone: One is though for my younger child. Now, if they go to school, There's an app and they alert you and it's like, I turned it off. I don't want to know my daughter's not turning in her homework. I agree. But Kristina and I work with a lot of students and sometimes we see it in adults who have serious executive function issues.

Susan Stone: Right. So what is normal? I forgot my homework. The dog ate my homework. And allowing them to have consequences versus seeing a child that might need some good intervention in their executive function skills. Now I will say, and I want to know if you agree with this again, it's not good to get involved because you want the teachers to see it and get the help and tease it out.

Susan Stone: But how do we know the difference between it just being, oh, this is so boring versus a, I just can't get organized. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Yeah. I mean, I'm a huge fan of the family meeting. Which I think, I think one of your guests talk about that too. 

Kristina Supler: That's a big, positive discipline, right?

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Right. So the family meeting is a great one, and I was just reviewing some of the recommendations for that. And then this one, I thing I read said, you know, the agenda should start with compliments which is great. Cause then everyone's looking all week for things that other people did well, that they could, list as their compliment and then challenges.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And then that's where you try to brainstorm some solutions. And that's where maybe this executive functioning thing could come in. So if there'd been challenges with homework, not getting turned in or the books from school not making it home from school or whatever that could be addressed at the meeting and talk about strategies to do better.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: But then if those methods are putting up something on the whiteboard in the kitchen, or, you know, Saying, would you like me to check that your backpack is loaded in at the night? You know, kind of coming up with some dual strategies that the kids involved with the parents involved with. If those things aren't working, then I do think you need to get the school involved, the school counselor involved.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: To see if they feel like the child needs some more executive functioning support at school at, or even is there an ADHD element going on that needs further diagnosis? So I am a big fan of that. 

Kristina Supler: It might be a tricky question, but what's the difference between over-parenting in your mind versus normal support for your child? 

Susan Stone: Great question.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Yeah. Well, and that kind of gets back to this failure to launch things. So let me actually go back to the failure to launch, and then we'll get back into that. So after the getting out of the homework business for high schoolers, I do think, like we said, there, they should be in charge of their, their work.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And then I do think considering a paid job for your high schooler is not a bad idea. Because paid work does teach a ton of responsibility and getting there on time. And doing some maybe menial tasks that you don't really like to do, but you do them anyway. And then I did clothing allowance with my kids and I thought it was fantastic.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So they got a certain amount of money every quarter that was to be spent on clothes. And, and we had it all worked out. Like if I was going to buy like the winter coats and the boots or whatever, but this was just for regular clothes. And they got that amount of money and they each had a bank account with a debit card and I put the money in there and then every time they went to the store or nowadays I'm sure kids are just buying it online, they could buy it or not. But they wouldn't get more money until the next quarter.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And I think that's a great way to teach them, like when their kids go to college a lot of kids overspend. And then they don't know cause they can door dash stuff, they can take an Uber, they have this and they have that. So like it's kind of a nice way to sort of start teaching them if there is a set amount of money and you can decide how you want to spend it, but there's not going to be any more for three months.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Or you get your job and you make more money and you can spend it that way. So I do think some money management, a lot of my, one of my daughters college freshmen friends had no clue about money and the parents were so mad because they were asking for more money all the time. That like, what all this?

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So I do think doing some money management in high school is a good idea before they get to, before they get to college. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: But then back to your other question about the helicopter parent versus the supportive parent, I mean, obviously that's sort of a style point and there are some cultural differences.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: But I guess I would say, you'd like the kid to have some, just some motivation on their own, that they're interested in something and they want to do it. And then maybe your job as the parent is to sort of provide, a good place to do your work. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Or, you know, maybe we didn't talk about sleep, but I'm a huge sleep advocate. And I do think, I think parents should be pretty involved in how, and when the kid goes to bed. Because if they don't get enough sleep, then everything falls apart. And I mean, the age, the amount of sleep children are supposed to get is, is much more than most kids are getting. And adults. Exactly. And I was reading you probably, you guys probably know Lisa DeMar, she's an amazing local psychologist.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And she wrote a really neat article on sleep. And, for the kind of the middle schoolers, she wants them all to get 10 hours of sleep and said, You have to get your homework done. You need to do 30 minutes of chores and you need 10 hours of sleep. And then if you can, if you have time for other activities, you can fit them in around that.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: But you know, the sleep is sort of the non-negotiable. So I think parents do need to be, and nowadays with teenagers, I get a lot of teenager checkups and I asked them what time they go to the bed? And the mother said, well, I don't know, because I go to bed at 10 and I don't know what they're doing after 10.

Susan Stone: I have to tell you. That is so true when your kids are little, you have a tuck-in routine, but I will say good night and sort of check in on my high schooler. But I don't know what she's doing. I'm hoping she's going to sleep. But I'm going to be more mindful of this. 

Susan Stone: I just want to ask for a recent observation that I find so interesting. When I was 16 and Kristina chime in getting your license was like the most important thing you could do. But I'm noticing from my friends and their kids and this generation driving is not a big deal and they don't care if they drive. They're happy to Uber. 

Kristina Supler: I agree at growing up and when I was a teen, it was unthinkable that you wouldn't get your license the minute you possibly could.

Kristina Supler: And it is this really interesting shift now, uh, we're seeing a lot of teens who just don't think it's necessary because friends around them or you have Uber or driving is just too stressful. Don't want it. Don't need it. Have you seen that in your medical practice or do you know what's, what's fueling this?

Kristina Supler: Or why 

Susan Stone: does, and should you just say no, you're getting your license. This is not a choice because I am not your chauffeur. 

Kristina Supler: Or do you have to really listen to what your child's expressing. I think the driving one, great question Susan, and that's a tough issue because you want to foster independence, but yet, you know, it's like, well, if my kid doesn't want to drive, maybe I have I'm in what's going on.

Kristina Supler: And I think that's a complicated issue for parents. Well, 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Yeah, it's pretty dark for us, Zizzy. The whole driving issue.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: It is funny because I do think it does sort of depend on girl, boy. I mean, I tend to see that the girls are getting their licenses on time. Cause they're just a little at that age, a little more organized. You know, you have to do the thing and take the test and they're just, and they just seem to be a little, social and they want to get out and about. And so I tend to see the girls getting their licenses pretty close to 16 and the boys not being as concerned because, you know, they're there, they can play their video games with their friends, from their couch and they don't need to get over there.

Susan Stone: That's so true. Where are they going? They're staying home. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: In terms of, from a parent's perspective, if you need them to drive cause they have other, you have other kids or you have other opportunities, then I think got like a job that you could say, look, you're able to get your license.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So it would really make life easier. If you decide not to do it, then you're on your own to find your way to where your practice or wherever you're going. You know, I think you can kind of try to put it on them a little bit, but I mean, honestly, teenagers are not the best drivers. So for me waiting a little longer, a little more mature, a little more friend to low, that's fine with me, a kid who doesn't really want to drive.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: It doesn't want to drive. I wouldn't push it because it's distressed, they can get distracted and they can, it's a huge responsibility driving a car. And so I'd really want them to be motivated and know, you know, that it's a big responsibility. They need to take it very seriously.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: I do. I do tell kids around this time, each year, you know, sadly there's often a car load of teenage boys that gets into a very serious possibly even fatal accident. And usually, usually they're not drinking. They're usually just goofing around. Just being funny, silly, goofy people, and it ends very badly.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: So I want them all paying attention while they're driving. And if they're not into it, I'd rather them in an Uber. 

Susan Stone: Yeah. You know, that's really interesting. Well, Zizzy, I think we're going to have to invite you back. Not even get halfway through what we wanted to talk to you back about. 

Susan Stone: Wow. There's just so much to us stuff to talk to the pediatrician about. I think you need your own podcast.

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: Yeah. I will just put in one plug for my boss. I work for a Senders Pediatrics. And my boss is Shelly Senders. Our website is amazing and he writes, uh, it used to be weekly, but now it's a twice monthly newsletter that has incredible topics. Like two weeks ago, he had tick-tock brain on there and how to get more sleep. 

Dr. Zizzy Bucchieri: And this, this week's has some good information on what's going on with COVID. So if anyone has more general pediatric questions, take look at our website. But it was great talking with you ladies. 

Susan Stone: We got to get together soon.

Kristina Supler: We're so pleased. You're able to join us today and our listeners check out Senders Pediatrics. Thanks to everyone for listening to Real Talk with Susan and Kristina. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our show so that you never miss an episode. And leave us a review so that other people couldn't find the content we share as well.

Kristina Supler: You can follow us on Instagram, just search our handle at Stone Supler and for more resources, visit us online at studentdefense.Kjk.com. Thank you so much for being a part of our Real Talk community and we will see you next time.

Check out our Real Talk podcast! We talk about everything from consent, Title IX and #MeToo to mental health, autism, bullying and hazing, social media pitfalls, academic integrity, special education, student discipline and misconduct, navigating police encounters and staying out of trouble.

#education #students #parenting #parenting tips

[rapeculturerealities]

For millions of working women, the coronavirus pandemic has delivered a rare and ruinous one-two-three punch.

First, the parts of the economy that were smacked hardest and earliest by job losses were ones where women dominate — restaurants, retail businesses and health care.

Then a second wave began taking out local and state government jobs, another area where women outnumber men.

The third blow has, for many, been the knockout: the closing of child care centers and the shift to remote schooling. That has saddled working mothers, much more than fathers, with overwhelming household responsibilities.

“We’ve never seen this before,” said Betsey Stevenson, a professor of economics and public policy at the University of Michigan and the mother of a second grader and a sixth grader. Recessions usually start by gutting the manufacturing and construction industries, where men hold most of the jobs, she said.

The impact on the economic and social landscape is both immediate and enduring.

The triple punch is not just pushing women out of jobs they held, but also preventing many from seeking new ones. For an individual, it could limit prospects and earnings over a lifetime. Across a nation, it could stunt growth, robbing the economy of educated, experienced and dedicated workers.

Inequality in the home — in terms of household and child care responsibilities — influences inequality in the workplace, Misty L. Heggeness, a principal economist at the Census Bureau, concluded in a working paper on the pandemic’s impact for the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis. Without a more comprehensive system of support, she said, “mothers will forever be vulnerable to career scarring during any major crisis like this pandemic.”

The latest jobs report from the Labor Department showed that some of the damage was reversed last month as the service industry revived, nudging down the jobless rate for women to 6.5 percent, slightly below men’s. But there were still 4.5 million fewer women employed in October than there were a year ago, compared with 4.1 million men.

And according to the Census Bureau, a third of the working women 25 to 44 years old who are unemployed said the reason was child care demands. Only 12 percent of unemployed men cited those demands.

Laci Oyler has felt that pressure. Her husband, employed by a large printing company, was already working from home when the pandemic shuttered day care and schools in Milwaukee. But after two days of taking care of their two young sons, “he said, ‘Absolutely no way,’” Ms. Oyler explained. So she cut her weekly hours as a mental health counselor for Alverno College, a small Catholic institution, to five from 32.

In August, when she learned that public schools would continue to offer only online classes for the fall, Ms. Oyler decided she had little choice but to take an unpaid leave.

This month, she decided to resign.

“Work is so much more than what you’re taking home as payment,” Ms. Oyler said. “But when you look at that bottom line of risk versus reward, it doesn’t seem worth it,” she added, referring to the cost of child care combined with the possibility of coronavirus infection for her or her children.

As a licensed professional, Ms. Oyler does not expect to have difficulty returning to the work force when she is ready. But for most working women, dropping out to take care of children or other family members exacts a sizable toll, several studies have shown. Rejoining is hard, and if women do, they generally earn less and have less security. And the longer someone is out of work, the tougher it is to get back in.

Claudia Goldin, an economics professor at Harvard, said this was the first recession where the economy was so intertwined with the network of child care.

“During the Great Depression, no one cared about the care sector,” she said. “Women weren’t in the labor force, and they weren’t supposed to be.”

One reason that Congress started giving financial assistance to poor households headed by women in the 1930s, under a program originally titled Aid to Dependent Children, was so they could stay home with their children and not compete with men for jobs, Ms. Goldin said.

Only during World War II, when women were urgently needed in factories and offices to replace men who were in the military, did the government establish a far-reaching federally subsidized network of nurseries and child care centers in nearly every state. Once the war ended, so did the support.

“You cannot have a contented mother working in a war factory if she is worrying about her children, and you cannot have children running wild in the streets without a bad effect on the coming generations,” Senator Carl Hayden, an Arizona Democrat, testified in 1943.

Women make up roughly half of the country’s work force. They range from entry-level to professional, they live in urban, suburban and rural areas, and they often care for toddlers and teenagers. But the burdens of the pandemic-induced recession have fallen most heavily on low-income and minority women and single mothers.

Members of these overlapping groups often have the most unpredictable schedules, and the fewest benefits, and are least able to afford child care. They fill most of the essential jobs that cannot be done from home and, therefore, carry the most risk for exposure to the virus. At the same time, they make up a disproportionate share of the service industries that have lost the most jobs. The jobless rate is 9.2 percent for Black women and 9 percent for Hispanic women.

When the pandemic caused housecleaning jobs to dry up, Andrea Poe was able to find cleaning work at a resort in Orange Beach, Ala., about a 45-minute drive from Pensacola, Fla., where she and her 14-year-old daughter, Cheyenne Poe, had moved in with an older daughter, her fiancé and their five children.

The families were behind in the rent and threatened with eviction when Hurricane Sally ripped through the coast in September. To escape the floods, they piled into two cars, drove to Biloxi, Miss., and spent five nights in a Walmart parking lot.

Now Ms. Poe and Cheyenne, who has turned 15, are in Peoria, Ariz., living in a room in her mother’s trailer.

She said she was applying for jobs every day, so far without luck. And the bills keep coming. Ms. Poe has missed two consecutive loan payments on her car and worries that it will be repossessed.

“I’m just hoping my unemployment checks come through so my car doesn’t get taken away,” she said. “If I lose my car, I’ll never be able to get a job.”

Women with more resources are in a better position, but they struggle in other ways.

When the pandemic ripped through Seattle and compelled Kenna Smith, 37, to work from home, she initially saw one upside — a chance to spend more time with her 3-year-old son.

“At first, I thought I’d just focus on my child,” said Ms. Smith, who had just started a branding and design company, Wildforth Creative. “It was fun for a while, but then the stress was intense.”

Like many families who were worried about the risk of infection or short of money and space, Ms. Smith and her husband let their son’s nanny go. Her husband, project manager for a general contractor, worked out of their bedroom.

“I’m not sure why it totally fell on me,” Ms. Smith said of child care. “I’m out in the living room, dining room area with a whole bunch of toys strewn about, with my laptop, trying to run my business.

“I was wanting to work and wanting my business to succeed so badly,” she said. “I didn’t realize. …” She paused, interrupted by a voice: “Mommy, I want some applesauce.”

The couple recently decided to hire a part-time nanny, concluding that despite the expense, it was the only way both could keep working. (Ms. Smith’s sister is also helping out.)

From 2015 until the pandemic, women’s increasing participation in the work force was a primary driver of the economy’s expansion, said Ms. Stevenson, the Michigan economist. “It’s why the economy grew the way it did, why employers could keep hiring month after month,” she said.

Since February, women’s participation in the labor force has been falling, with the biggest decreases among women without college degrees who have children.

Changes forced on women by the pandemic elicit a mixture of anxiety and hope.

Many women worry that the changes will sharply narrow women’s choices and push them unwillingly into the unpaid role of full-time homemaker.

And the impact could stretch over generations, paring women’s retirement savings, and reducing future earnings of children now in low-income households.

“We are creating inequality 20 years down the line that is even greater than we have today,” said Ms. Stevenson, who was a member of President Barack Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers. “This is how inequality begets inequality.”

Yet there is also the possibility that the mounting pressures could create momentum to complete the unfinished project of fully integrating women into the work force by providing a system of family support — like affordable child care and paid parental and sick leave.

“I think we’re really at a crossroads,” said Julie Kashen, director for women’s economic justice at the Century Foundation and one of the authors of a new report on the pandemic and working women. “We’ve never built a workplace that worked for people with caregiving responsibilities.”

#covid-19 #financial #sexism #misogyny

[postmodernmulticoloredcloak]

Fantasies, dreams and desires, ideas of normalcy and fears of difference. A slightly queer reading of 15x14

Mrs Butters is a delightful character who is built to parallel so many things in the show. She occupies perfectly the semantic sphere that the narrative has crafted around Dean’s desires; also, you know, cake.

We could talk for days about the significance of food and drink in Supernatural. One of the biggest themes that run through the entire show is hunger (or thirst) and food is very often a symbol for an emotional need of sorts. Supernatural draws a lot folklore, and human stories have always used symbologies that put together food, desire, love, sex, family, goodness and darkness and all those human experiences.

We have discussed the shit out of every instance of food in the show, analyzed parallels to other stories and fairytales, scrutinized queer-codings and subtexts, got called nasty names by impolite people accusing us of saying that a slice of baked good means Dean likes sitting on dicks. So, yeah, I’m not gonna start explaining everything from the beginning. Let’s jump to the parallels.

- The comfort food. Motherhood, hugs, and the past that can never return: the ideal of childhood and the 50s fantasy

We’ve already talked about how Mrs Butters functions as a parallel to Mary and a symbol of the ideal motherhood that both Mary and Dean struggled with. In Dark Side Of The Moon, we see a memory from Dean’s childhood, where we learn that Mary would cut off the crusts off his sandwiches. Mrs Butters also says that she cut the crusts off, establishing a direct parallel to Dean’s ideal of childhood and child-parent relationship. Or, we should say, as both Mary’s and Dean’s ideals of a child-parent relationship, because we know that Mary set up her life with John and the kids as an elaborate “scene” according to her idea-slash-fantasy of the perfect safe life.

She strugged with that, because her ideal life could never match with reality - she had loose ends from hunting to deal with, she at some level liked having those loose ends to deal with because as much as she hated the hunting life and craved for safety and “normalcy” that was still something she was in her element doing, probably more than the perfect housewife role. Of course when she came back she attempted to recreate the scene but quickly discovered that it was impossible and dropped all attempts to do so, embracing the opposite, or at least what she perceived as the opposite (having a pretty dualistic view of hunting life-domestic life where they cannot be reconciled).

Dean, on the other hand, started out with a similar dualistic view, figuring that he’d always belong to the hunting world and could never have the domestic, “normal” thing at all, embracing his “freakness” as opposed to the concept of normalcy represented by civilians, by the middle class, by the suburbs, by the apple pie, white fence life (insert heavy queer subtext here). And yet there was always an ambiguity with him (again, he’s never one-or-the-other, he’s always both), because, while on the surface he embraces this rebellious, devil-may-care persona, that’s not quite what he is as a full individual. He grew up essentially a housewife from a very early age, has a very caregiving personality, and thrives in taking care of others.

Dean is both Mrs Butters and Mary, where the difference between him and Mary is that Mary couldn’t (didn’t have the time, support, resources?) reconcile parts of her that Dean instead was able to (and in fact recently helped her with: before dying, she’d reached a pretty healthy balance of living her own life as a hunter and having a warm relationship with her sons, at least as healthy as it can get in that kind of circumstances).

Another important parallel to Dark Side Of The Moon, borrowed by Scoobynatural, is the nightgown that feels like being wrapped in hugs: we are reminded of Dean’s “I wuv hugz” from when he was a kid, a symbol for his early life of affection and safety that he lost with his mother. Childhood hugs, comfort food, loving gestures like cutting off the crusts are all symbols of a past that cannot return.

On a level, from a “coming-of-age story” perspective, childhood, with its innocence and perception that adults will always keep us safe, is obviously something that everyone needs to accept as something that belongs to the past and cannot return, to embrace instead the responsibilities and risks of adulthood in a healthy way. In a sense, Dean needs to go through all these steps - acknowledging that his mother was a flawed person, that in fact both of his parents were flawed people who made mistakes but he can forgive them for his own sake in order to be able to let go of trauma and carry on... - to become a healthy adult able to be a good parent to his own child.

(There’s also the cholesterol thing - Mrs Butters chastizes Dean for his diet, but we know that there’s a depth to Dean’s diet, not only his extreme appreciation of food due to experiencing food scarcity and insecurity as a child, but also the memory of his mother’s comfort food, such as the “Winchester surprise”, a monstrosity of meat and cheese. While the “meat man” persona would appear on the surface as a sterotypical masculinity thing, it has layers, in a typical Dean fashion... not coincidentally, in the latest episode he calls himself the meat man while wearing an apron that we’re told he’s very fond of, painting him, again, in a mixture of different meanings, masculinity and femininity, fatherhood and motherhood, devil-may-care attitude and caregiver attitude.)

On another level, a more political level, there’s the 50s fantasy element. We all know the significance of the idealization of the post-war period as the “good ol’ times” in American culture, and it’s an ideal that Mary definitely drew from when she built her perfect life with her family. Mrs Butters represents this in a very literal way, being literally from 1958 when she “froze” herself, and acts as a very stereotyped governess for a bunch of men that feel like they are above housework, what is considered women’s work. Dean initially comments “how progressive”, knowing exactly how bullshit these conversative ideals are, but then appreciates the comforts of the perfect caretaker.

In fact, Dean’s “giving in” to the comforts of a governess makes me think of that famous feminist manifesto “I want a wife” by Judy Syfers... because housework is very much Dean’s work in the bunker. It’s interesting that Mrs Butters immediately comments negatively on the cleanness of the bunker and their clothes: we know that Dean cleans and washes, and, while it’s likely that he cannot keep everything super perfect like a governess would because he’s busy doing many other things, it’s a way Mrs Butters uses to establish roles that she knows and is comfortable with. She is used to being the one who does “feminine” work while the Men of Letters have absolutely zero skills in that regard, and doesn’t really even stop to question if that’s the case with the men in front of her.

Anyway, let’s go back to the 50s fantasy. The show has repeatedly made commentaries on the vacuity of it. Peace Of Mind is the most obvious instance, but there’s plenty of subtext in the show that deals with that typically American aspect. Just like the childhood aspect, the narrative tells us that the “good ol’ times” are also an idealized thing that cannot return (if it ever existed, because Dean’s childhood was built on a fantasy, and the “good ol’ times” are also a fantasy, because the real 50s were horrible for anyone who didn’t swim in privilege). Mrs Butters cannot stay, the 50s fantasy-slash-childhood fantasy cannot last, and Dean embraces his role as an adult-slash-modern housemaker. Blah blah gender, blah blah cake. (Yeah, sorry, but you can fill in the blanks.)

- The contaminated drink. Poison and weakness from the forbidden sexual desire to the forbidden family domesticity

Aaaand now the second branch of parallels that Mrs Butters pinged on my radar, which sends us in an even more queer-subtext-heavy territory. We’re going to talk about the smoothies and the tomato juice. Yes, I know, the smoothies are given to Jack, not Dean, but symbolically Dean and Jack share the same semantic area; both are given a magically conjured drink, and both end up locked away waiting to be killed. For this analysis, they basically overlap.

Let’s start with the tomato juice. I don’t think that it’s a coincidence that Dean is given something that visually reminds of the blood the vampires drink. The tomato juice is a stand-in for blood, and blood in relation to vampirism has a long history of subtext in the show that connects to sexuality, sex, sexual fears and contamination. While vampires are not necessarily always invested of those meanings every single time they appear in the three-hundred-whatever episodes of the show, their main symbology is connected to sex and sexual fears, as vampires do in modern western literature, after all.

You’re probably going to think, wait, what? What has Mrs Butters got to do with sexual fears? Yeah, I know, it sounds weird, but hear me out.

The tomato juice - a stand-in for blood, with a vampire reference - parallels Mrs Butters (who represents trauma, remember) to 6x05 Live Free Or TwiHard. Sexual assault, blood, contamination via the poisoning liquid.

Next to the tomato juice there’s the smoothie. It’s a poison in disguise, a contaminated drink that makes Jack weak. We have, in fact, a pattern of Dean being given contaminated drinks that place him under another’s power. Not just the vampire’s blood, but also Jeremy from 3x10 Dream A Little Dream Of Me, who offers Dean a beer through which he connects him to his dreams. There’s Nick the siren from 4x14 Sex And Violence, who contaminates Dean through the flask. The venom in the siren’s saliva parallels straight to the gorgon Noah in 14x14 Ouroboros, and I don’t have to start explaining what all those things represent, right? (I have written posts about these things, it would be nice if tumblr didn’t suck and showed them to me when I go look for them.)

(Oh, there’s also Crowley’s human blood addiction, which is not, as one might expect, a parallel to Sam’s demon blood addition, but Dean’s First Blade/Mark Of Cain issue, and the First Blade/Mark Of Cain arc is all imbued by the queer subtext of the Dean-Crowley-Castiel triangle.)

Basically, Mrs Butters is inserted in a history of queer subtext, although it appears as obvious that Mrs Butters hardly represents homosexual desire, unless we go a pretty stretchy route of her occupying Cas’ space in the Dean-Sam-Cas-Jack family (I mean, that’s true, but it’s not simply that). It is also true that Mrs Butters represents Cuthbert Sinclair, and here the radar pings, because Cuthbert Sinclair is totally inside the pattern! He wanted to make Dean part of his collection just like the vampire in 6x05 wanted to make Dean part of his pack, with supernatural means of exorting control over Dean and heavy heavy rapey tones. (I know we don’t like to talk about this, but the show does play with incest subtext, John mirrors are often rapey.)

So, we have all this semantic area of poison, weakness and submission to external control painted in overtones of sexual assault and sexual fears especially in relation to homosexual desire. (I am NOT linking homosexual desire to sexual assult, nor the show is, it’s a wide and volatile semantic area where the common denominator is fear, fear of being hurt FOR being different sexually, it’s about vulnerability because of being different. It’s a horror narrative, guys, remember, queer fear is a recurrent theme in the genre. Dracula was about the horror of what happened to Oscar Wilde, we’re running in circles.)

Now, what kind of fear is explored in 15x14? Well, the episode is about the fear of losing family. The plot is about Dean’s feelings towards Jack after he killed Mary. Dean doesn’t know it yet, but he’s going to lose Cas soon also because of Jack. Mary and Cas are both very noisy absences in the episode, and we know that Dean is going to suffer something horrific again that will shatter his family again. This goes past the fears regarding forbidden sexual desire: we’re in the territory of forbidden familial desire, so to speak, Dean’s craving for a domestic peace with his family.

Jack is both the culmination of Dean’s process of family-building, as the son figure of the family, and the element of destruction of that family-building. Not a coincidence Jack’s birthday was referenced, as Jack’s birth coincided with Cas’ death and Mary’s supposed death or at least separation. Now Jack has supposedly killed Mary (or is it a inter-universe separation again? @drsilverfish​’s theory always pops up, and we keep getting reminded of other universes - the telescope is broken...) and we know that Cas’ ultimate death hangs above us.

We’re always running in a spiral, Dean’s relationship with Mary, Dean’s relationship with Cas, Dean’s relationship with motherhood and gender roles, Dean’s relationship with sexuality. There’s a big picture of mirrors in the semantic area of fantasies, idealizations, desires and dreams. I hope I managed to make this post make sense, but I’m always open to requests of clarification or elaboration. Thanks for reading!

#my spn thoughts #spn meta #spn 15x14 #queer subtext #dean and femininity #dean and masculinity #dean and food #dean and mary #dean and childhood #dean and sexuality #dean and family #spn

[icarialex]

Who: Zoey Katz and Kassandra West

When: March 3rd

Where: Zoey’s apartment 

What: Kassandra shows up after taking a beating from Robin. 

Triggers: Mentions of Violence and blood.

Kassandra: 

It was nearly three in the morning as Kassandra made her way down the road. Everything in her body ached. Every muscle and bone screamed at her once she’d come to on the pavement. Flashes of what happened scattered through her mind but the more she thought about it, the more sick to her stomach she’d felt. She’d never felt that powerless in her damn life. Luckily for her, or maybe unluckily, no one had been out to witness the incident. Kassandra didn’t have to look at herself in a mirror to know how bad she looked. The bruising, the swelling, the blood. She didn’t know what’s worse… That she had believed the woman’s need for someone to walk her home or that she had eventually allowed herself to be beaten to a bloody pulp. 

Either way here she was, finally standing outside of Zoey’s front door. The brunette winced as she raised the hand that wasn’t holding her ribs, ignoring the pain that shot through her knuckles as they registered against the wood. When she didn’t hear any sound, Kassandra’s voice broke through the cool night air. “Zoey...” She whimpered out, knocking on the door again with more force, ignoring the pain. “Please wake up.” Kass sagged against the door frame, fear sinking in that Zoey was too deep in slumber to hear her. And then the door opened. Normally she’d go damn near cross-eyed at seeing Zoey in that little of clothing but the pain was too much. Blood trickled out of the corner of her mouth as she coughed weakly, looking up at her friend. “Hey you.”

Zoey: 

Since their date, Zoey and Kassandra had hung out a few times. Running into one another more was almost impossible to avoid with her working at the Inn, but she far from minded. The tension between them kept growing, but nothing had progressed which didn’t annoy the blonde. She wanted more than anything for Kass to be ready before they started down a path towards being more than what they were. That was more important than whatever frustrating feelings she was feeling more and more whenever they were together. 

Fortunately, she was a light sleeper which was why she was roused from her sleep by knocking. Not bothering to worry about the fact that she was essentially in a thong and tank top, she hurried to see who in the world could be trying to see her so late. A gasp escaped her when she saw how badly Kassandra was hurt, and she moved to help the woman into her house. “Gods, darling, what the hell happened,” she said as she moved her towards the couch. She gently placed her down as she moved around towards the kitchen to fill a bowl with water and grab a clean washcloth. While she had zero experience in nursing, she moved off of instinct. Then she got an ice pack from the freezer and slowly carried it all back to where the woman was. 

Slowly, she moved to kneel down in between Kass’ legs and wet the washcloth in the warm water. “Do I need to take you to the hospital,” she asked softly as she gently began wiping dried blood off of the woman’s face. She bit her bottom as she concentrated on making sure to not make anything hurt worse than necessary. “I’m happy to take care of you, but there is only so much I can do if things are serious.” Zoey’s skills were great when it came to any artistic area, but that was about it. Well, she was also an exceptional cuddler if she said so herself. “Thanks for coming here too,” she continued as she rinsed the cloth in the water before going back to cleaning wounds.

Kassandra: 

Another weak cough left her as Zoey immediately went to caregiver mode. “You should see the other guy.” She offered up, chuckling despite herself. As Kass sat down on the couch, she felt incredibly self conscious. “I… I don’t want to get your couch bloody. Just–Grab a towel and I can sit on the…. On the floor.” No matter what she said though, she knew Zoey wouldn’t let her do that so she resigned herself to leaning back against the couch, wincing as she did so. “We’re basically Gods. I’ll heal faster than your average human. I hope…” Kass gave a small smile, the movement causing her lip to split even more. Her face turned down into a grimace, letting out a shallow breath. “So no, I don’t think I need the hospital. But uh… Can I make a request?” She really didn’t think that now was the time for her to be talking about this but Zoey was practically wearing no clothing and it was slowly killing her.

“You’re kind of not wearing any clothes and uh…” Kassandra allowed green eyes to travel down Zoey’s form, realizing far too suddenly that she most definitely wasn’t wearing a bra. Oh. “It’s making it incredibly hard to not stay conscious. You can…” A small cough. “You can take that as a compliment because it is one. I just… Would like to not pass out again.” Kassandra gripped the couch, remembering with brutal vivid flashes of what had happened earlier in her night. “Think once is enough for me tonight.” Kassandra grabbed at the blonde’s wrist, stopping the motions she was doing of trying to clean her up. 

“Zo… Please. I’m not in a good mental state right now and you–” The brunette sighed, squeezing the hand that she’d now moved to hold. “You looking like this?” She swallowed thickly before continuing. “Makes me want you more than I already do.” Oh fuck, no, fix that. “And I kind of am not in peak physical condition here to do anything about it.” Sure that totally made up for the charged comment she’d just made. What kind of absolute idiot was she? The kind that let her shit get kicked in, that’s who. But at least making a joke was easier than telling Zoey how much she’d hate herself for finally showing up at her house and not doing what she’d said she would all those nights ago.

Zoey: 

“Who exactly is the other guy,” she asked through clenched teeth. It wasn’t often that Zoey let anger consume her, but seeing someone she very much cared about bloodied on her couch fueled that emotion easily. “I don’t care about my couch more than I care about you. It can get cleaned or replaced.” Her furniture was the least of her worries with what was before her. “We’re very watered down versions of our parents,” she corrected with a sigh. “Sure, it’ll be faster, but not as quick as you think. When the Minotaur attack happened, a lot of us here got hurt. Many were injured for weeks, and broken bones took just as long to heal.” That had been sheer chaos. She’d never ran so quickly in her life to find her parents at the carnival and move them to safety. It was during parents’ week, and she knew parents who had died. They were just mortals after all. Funerals felt like they were never ending the week after. 

The blonde stayed quiet as the request was made. The rambling explanations that came for it after was endearing, but it also made her body run incredibly hot. She tilted her head back and mumbled to under her breath about how the woman in front of her was going to be the death of her before moving to stand up. “Turning me on while I’m going to take care of you is not very nice, Kassandra,” she teased lightly to try and shake off the effects of what had been said. Stopping the air from becoming thick with tension was her number one priority because they seriously couldn’t do anything about it. “I’ll be right back.” 

Once in her room, she just grabbed an old Icaria High School hoodie and threw on a pair of shorts. The whole process took her maybe thirty seconds, but she took an extra minute or two to compose herself from hearing that Kass’ essentially wanted her. That was — well, the most forward either of them had been. It was nice to not be dancing around in the grey area anymore, but Gods, it wasn’t easier to deal with physically. Once she was sure she wouldn’t replay the words in her head anymore, she walked back out with an extra t-shirt and stood in front of Kassandra. “I need to get your shirt off,” she started with. Yeah, that definitely wasn’t helpful. “I have to see how bad you’re injured, and I want to get you out of bloody clothes. Do you want a shower or bath? I can help set one up for you.” Blue eyes met green, and Zoey’s frustration towards whoever had done this only grew. Because of them she had to have more restraint than she would normally, and that wasn’t helpful when she was craving more than ever. “And yes, you’re staying here tonight before you even try and argue with me.”

 Kassandra: 

Everything swam for a moment as Zoey said that one particular thing. Yeah, no, she definitely hadn't been trying to achieve that effect but here they are. The blonde left the room and that gave Kassandra enough time to fully assess the extent of what had led her here to this moment. How was she supposed to explain to Zoey that she'd allowed herself to be hurt halfway through, to feel all that pain as if it was her birthright for being some kind of fucked-up bad-egg of the family. Before she could allow herself to do any more self-loathing, the other woman was returning with a t-shirt in hand and--hold on--had she just said she needed her to take her shirt off? Fuck. She knew Zoey was in the right here but she wasn't necessarily ready to start stripping in front of her. Not that that would normally be a problem, Kassandra knew she was fit. Not that that was even a problem. The problem was it was Zoey and when she thought of getting undressed in front of the blonde, it involved reciprocation.

Sighing, Kassandra stood with a small whimper, staggering slightly before standing up as straight as she could manage. The thought of having to twist her arms to take off her shirt sounded absolutely horrendous so she just decided right then and there that she needed a better solution. "I'm sorry..." She mumbled before grabbing the front of her shirt, pulling in an effortless motion as it tore away from her body. Her bra-clad chest, toned stomach and arms were now on full display. And sadly, so were the deep purple and black bruises. Most likely a couple bruised ribs, maybe cracked at most. Definitely some cuts and scrapes. Not to mention bruised knuckles, a black eye, busted lip and probably a concussion. Overall, she felt like shit. "I'm not going to argue with you about staying the night. I knew that I'd be staying over the second that I decided to walk here."

Biting her lip out of nervous energy resulted in pain, making her wince once more. "I don't know who she was. She was just..." Kassandra closed her eyes, thinking back to what the other woman had done. "She said she needed someone to walk her home. And then she got mad at me and started throwing punches. But it felt more than that. Everything got so dark. Not just outside but in my head. And after a while of trying to defend myself..." The brunette trailed off, not sure if she should tell Zoey this next part. But once again her brain and mouth weren't communicating and it was all tumbling out before she could stop it. "I gave up. I let her do this to me. I couldn't stop it, its like all the darkness in my head and every... Every bad thought I've ever had was bombarding me at once. And it felt like I needed it all to just... Stop. All the pain and fear and hatred. For one glorious second... Right before I blacked out--it was gone. I felt... Peace." She couldn't look at her, knowing that this was probably the moment that Zoey turned around showed her the door. After all, what kind of fucked up person let this happen to themselves?

 Zoey: 

Blue eyes widened as the shirt was ripped from the woman’s body. Then, her eyes took a moment to gaze over all the skin that was suddenly before her. Without even realizing it, her hand reached out and with the most feather-like touch, the index finger of Zoey’s right hand lightly ran over the muscles on Kassandra’s stomach. When she felt the muscle shift beneath her touch, she snapped out of it and shifted her gaze’s intentions from appreciating towards inspecting. The bruises looked bad, but she didn’t think ribs were broken since Kassandra showed no difficulty breathing. Zoey was far from a professional, but she knew she had no chance of getting the woman to the hospital without using some serious pouting or guilting tactics. She’d use those if it appeared things got worse through the night. “Good. At least you know how things work with me already,” she teased. Zoey was far from dominant or commanding. She just liked to make sure those she cared for were taken care of, and since Kass was injured, she’d not be too keen on letting her out of her site unless necessary. 

The more Zoey heard about what happened that evening, the more she could feel her blood beginning to boil. The urge to shift and follow the scent that she was sure she could smell on Kassandra was stronger than she’d felt in a very long time. Her mind went through possible animals that could do the most harm or at least scare someone, but she closed her eyes and counted to ten. Violence wasn’t ever how she approached things. She did however want to go to the police. It wasn’t her place though, and she seriously doubted the injured woman would. All she could do was comfort and care. When she noticed that Kass’ gaze wasn’t on her, she gently cupped her cheeks and guided green eyes towards her blue. “Powers,” she said gently. “It sounds like it was the demigod’s ability. Even though a lot of us on the isle get along and use our abilities responsibly, there are bad people among us just like in the real world.” Zoey liked to think the best of everyone, but she’d learned young to be wary of demigods’ abilities unless she knew them well. Fortunately, she had a better instinct than most and did avoid anyone that screamed danger to her. “It wasn’t your fault. Someone just took your darkness and used it against you. We all have some.”

When she was done talking, she removed her hand just because restraint while keeping such an intimate position wasn’t something she had a lot of. “I think your ribs are bruised or fractured. Fortunately, all you can really do for that is rest. So, do you want me to take you to bed now and get you fixed up with some ice, or are you going to shower first?” She went through all the steps that would be needed for either action in her head, so she could get a head start on doing everything needed to make Kass more comfortable. Then, her mind suddenly stopped as she remembered a very adorable puppy. “Nugget. We need to get him. Do you want me to call Noreen and ask if she’d be willing to bring him over? I think she’s on schedule as the manager tonight if I’m remembering the schedule correctly.”

 Kassandra:

The second that Zoey's outstretched fingers touched her abdomen, Kassandra felt a gasp leave her throat. As they moved softly against her skin, she tensed. Not from pain but something that she really wasn't about to admit to the woman before her. The fingers remained on her skin for so long that all she could feel was the heat bubbling up in her stomach flushing her skin, knowing that if Zoey didn't remove her hand she'd feel the warmth. Luckily for her, or maybe unluckily, Zoey decided to touch her again, this time on her face so their eyes were locked in one of their now very famous staredowns. Fuck. "I let her do that to me. You know I've got strength. If I really wanted to get away.. To knock her out.. I could have. But I didn't. Powers or not, I wanted to let myself feel all that hurt and that pain." With a deep breath, she sighed, hands coming up to cover over Zoey's just in time for the blonde to pull them away from her face.

Hearing how concerned Zoey was for her made her chest ache that much more, and then of course she immediately thought of Nugget. How was this woman actually real? She didn't know if she believed in angels but if she did, Zoey definitely had to be one. At the mention of Noreen, Kassandra flinched visibly. "No! I mean, that's okay. I can just give you my.. My key. Just please don't be gone too long. Or you can call one of my neighbors. The lady across from me is pretty nice and she likes Nugget. Maybe she'd be fine with... With watching him." Kassandra winced as she gave the other woman options, her body throbbing with pain as some of the shock began to wear off. "Zoey... I'm sorry you have to see me like this. But thank you for taking care of me when you didn't have to." With little effort the brunette brought up one of the hands that she was holding, kissing the palm of her hand gently.

"I can.. I can try to shower while you're gone." Kassandra gave a halfhearted smile as she slowly dropped Zoey's hands to let her own fall by her sides. "I'll--I know where the bathroom is." With a staggering step, she turned around and began to hobble towards the shower, placing her key down on the couch as she walked past it towards the bathroom. As she turned, her back was now visible to Zoey, more bruises and cuts now on display. As well as a long and jagged scar that ran down her right shoulder-blade, barely visible through the long brunette curls that bobbed gently against her back. Kassandra didn't even bother shutting the door as she turned on the shower, back to the open doorway as she began the painstakingly long and painful process of unbuttoning her jeans.

 Zoey: 

“Then, instead of beating yourself up like you like to do,” she started teasingly to ensure Kass knew she didn’t judge her. She couldn’t do that. Everyone had their own troubles, their own trials. All she could do is try to understand, and then try to help make things better. “Look at the bright side. You wanted to face it and feel that pain,” she said softly. “While I’m not happy with your methods or coping mechanism, because I prefer to see you not get hurt, you at least confronted them. Now, you can decide how best you want to deal with them since they are fresh in your mind, and hopefully, heal not just physically, but emotionally too.” Zoey didn’t know who had caused Kassandra so much pain in her life, but Gods, did she want to have a few choice words with them if she could. The woman before her was good. Genuinely, and so sweetly good. She just didn’t show that to everyone. 

Zoey giggled lightly because she just couldn’t help it. “It’s cute how you think you need to give me a key when I’m currently running the Inn until Marci gets back.” Getting to nugget wouldn’t be a problem for her at all. It was getting over the fact that she didn’t want to leave Kass that would be, but it would be fine. The woman was an adult. A hard headed one, but an adult nonetheless. There wasn’t much more trouble she could get herself into. “I’ll go grab the baby,” she reassured gently. They’d both feel much better with him prancing around the house anyway. The kiss to her palm made her visibly soften and let out a soft sigh. “I’ll always take you as you are, Kass,” she promised with a shrug of her shoulders in an attempt to take the weight off of the statement. “You’re accepted with me. Just, don’t go giving me anymore heart attacks, okay? I hate seeing you hurt.” 

As she watched Kassandra barely be able to make it to the bathroom, Zoey sent up a silent prayer and followed the woman a few seconds later. When she leaned against the doorway, she saw how it was taking the injured woman much longer than necessary to unbutton a pair of jeans. Slowly, she walked forward and replaced the brunette’s hands with her own. “Just — don’t think about it,” she said in reference to how much tension was constantly growing between them. Then, she unbuttoned the jeans herself and then knelt down slowly to push them down the woman’s legs. She didn’t dare look up from her position as she told Kass, “hand on the counter to keep your balance,” before helping her step out of them. As soon as that was done, she stood up and took three steps back to the doorway. “I’m going to go get Nugget now, but I’ll be right back. You can use the towel hanging right next to the shower. I just did laundry today. And you should find an extra toothbrush in the medicine cabinet if you want to brush before we settle in.” Blue eyes barely managed to stay locked with green as she spoke, and when she felt them dipping, she turned on her heel and headed towards her purse.

 Kassandra: 

Purposefully not looking at the blonde, Kass let her gaze tear upwards to the ceiling as hands took work of what she'd been trying to do. She didn't even register how easily her body just followed Zoey's instructions without even thinking about it. Bees. Mayonnaise. People that chewed when they talked. Anything and everything that would make her not at all feel as turned on as she was. Slowly her libido evened out, nodding as Zoey instructed her about where everything was. Once she left the bathroom, Kass waited until the front door shut with a click, letting out a breath she didn't know she'd been holding. Hands made slow work of her underwear, before she stepped into the shower. Warm water hit her skin and Kassandra let out a pained cry. Steadying herself against the wall for a moment, she stared down at her feet as the water sinking down into the drain turned crimson.

It hurt but she managed as she rinsed her body off to the best of her ability. Shampooing her hair was the most difficult part and by the end of it, Kass was holding back tears. Her mind replayed over and over the events of what happened, followed by Zoey's words. Did she know how to heal? And even beyond that, could she heal? Kassandra didn't know how that was even possible. This was who she had been since she was sixteen. Broken. If Zoey had even know half of the chaos that had filled inside of her own head.... Would she be able to say what she'd said earlier? Would she still care? Or would she finally realize that she wasn't worth it. Swallowing thickly, she just focused on the wall ahead, letting her mind cloud with memories of her mother. Of Aurora. Of this woman who had brought it all to the surface. Green eyes brimmed with tears and then her knees gave out, collapsing in on herself as she sat on the floor of the shower. Knees pressed together as she pulled them up to her chest, holding on for dear life as she shook, sobs taking over.

Eventually they died off and yet Kassandra still stayed in that position; holding onto her knees as she stared almost lifelessly in front of her. She didn't hear the front door open. Didn't hear her puppy bark excitedly before jumping up on the couch. Hell, she didn't even realize that the water had run cold. All she could do was stare at the floor, head swaying gently as she lost herself to the demons in her own head. What would her father say if he know how weak she really was? He wouldn't have a use for her anymore. And if he didn't then Zeus sure as hell wouldn't. Well. If Kratos had actually been keeping his part of the bargain. The deal with the devil she'd made. It was funny, or at least, she'd find it funny if she could process humor.. Her father had made a deal with the devil to reward himself. And now.. Now Kass was essentially following in his footsteps. What a fucking pair they made.

 Zoey” 

Walking to grab Nugget had been a rather uneventful adventure. She’d gotten to the Inn, checked in with everyone to make sure all was well since she was there, and then let herself in the room to grab the puppy. He was always so excited to see her, and she made sure to grab his things as well. Zoey knew that she had more than enough clothes that would work, but she made sure to grab some pants for Kass since their height difference was quite stark. Once everything was thrown into her oversized purse, she scooped the puppy into her arms and headed back to her house.

The walk gave her time to sort through her thoughts. Everything with Kass was turning out to be nothing like she expected. The woman definitely brought a liveliness to her life, and she couldn’t deny their chemistry if she tried. Still, she worried that past demons would lead to her getting hurt, but it wasn’t enough to make her step away. If she didn’t show that it was worth it, Zoey was afraid Kassandra would continue thinking she wasn’t. The artist wasn’t sticking around because she felt it was her job to correct that thinking. She just — wanted to. Sometimes it really was that simple.

When she got back in the house, she called for Kassandra after taking off her shoes but heard no response. That worried her, so she left Nugget to get comfortable and quickly moved towards the bathroom. The sight broke her heart, and she couldn’t help but curse herself for not moving faster to get back home. Zoey grabbed the towel off the rack, turned off the water, and then moved to kneel in the tub. “Kass, honey,” she said as she wrapped the towel around her shoulders. She leaned forward and kissed the other woman’s forehead. “Hey, I’m home. I’m here. Let’s get you out of this tub.”

 Kassandra: 

The only thing that broke her out of her stupor was a kiss being placed against her forehead, Kass delirious as she looked up to see Zoey's face swim into view. "I'm... When did I sit down?" She blinked in confusion, looking around at her surroundings. When had a towel gotten wrapped around her and when did Zoey get back? Everything felt out of place, off. And as she stood up, her vision blurred for a moment. Sucking in a deep breath, Kass moved the towel so it was wrapped around her body. Not like Zoey had definitely not gotten an eye-full as she stood but still, for the first time in her life she was feeling self-conscious about another woman seeing her naked. Okay, second time. No matter. "Did you grab some... Some sweats for me? I don't know if I can get back into those jeans comfortably."

Kassandra moved back out of the bathroom and saw Nugget. The puppy immediately heard his owner and jumped off the couch, sprinting at full speed for his owner. As he jumped up to her, the brunette hissed in pain but pet him anyway. She couldn't fault him for being excited. Even if she was pretty battered right now, it was nice being reminded that there was someone out there that loved her unconditionally no matter what. She continued to pet him, just standing there wrapped in the towel. After about three minutes of this, Nugget barked happily before leaving to go sit back down on the couch. At the bark, Kassandra blinked as if coming out of a stupor. "Wh... When did I get here?" Her brow furrowed in confusion as she looked around before shivering, her attention now focusing on the fact that she was still very much naked and this towel barely left anything to the imagination. Oh.

 Zoey: 

I don’t know, darling, but let’s get you out,” she said gently as she helped Kass maneuver herself as much as she could. Zoey could tell something still wasn’t quite right, but she didn’t want to do something that could make it worse. The artist mostly focused on being respectful with her gaze. Since Kassandra obviously wasn’t okay, it was much easier. Physical and emotional turmoil was just too much to try and make light of. “I did. I picked up some clothes for you. You can stay with me until you can move without wincing if you want.” While she wasn’t happy about Kass living in the Inn, she wasn’t going to offer for her to move in given the development of her emotions. That was just too much too quickly. 

When the brunette moved out of the bathroom towards the living room, Zoey just leaned against a nearby wall and watched. A smile formed on her face as she saw the duo interact. They were incredibly cute together. It was when she heard Kass’ voice change to something closer to normal that she moved. “I got home to see you sitting down in the tub. You looked like you’d been crying, and you were hardly answering me. I got you out like five minutes ago, and the little man is who you headed towards.” That was about all she could do in terms of filling in the blanks since she’d walked during the tail end of things. “Let’s get you dressed,” she suggested as Zoey put her hand on the small of the woman’s back and led Kass to her room. 

When they got into her bedroom, Zoey told her to sit on the bed while she went to go get the clothes she’d gotten from the inn. She was back in the room quickly and unpacking what she’d brought. “I got underwear too because I figured having your own is a comfort every girl should have.” Once everything was laid out to give Kassandra choices, Zoey went to her closet and pulled out one of her hoodies. It was another from high school when she was in the art club. She hoped that it would bring the brunette comfort if she wanted to wear it. “Also, I’m not ignoring the bathroom. I’m just — not pushing it. If you want to tell me, I’ll always be here and willing to listen. That’s up to you. I just want to make you feel better as much as I can.”

 Kassandra: 

Kassandra's body moved on auto pilot as she listened to the other woman speaking to her, hands loosening their grip on the towel. It was as if her brain wasn't registering shame anymore after her breakdown in the shower, the brunette not caring as the towel fell to the floor exposing her naked and toned form. Numbly reaching for the underwear she put them on and then moved to put on the pair of sweatpants. Her knees were weak and they almost gave out, Kass sitting on the corner of the bed as she took in a shaky breath. Her hands went to hoodie next, letting out a small yelp as what sounded like faint pops happened as she put the article of clothing on her. Finally it was finished and she was dressed, hair still wet from her shower as she let her head lull to the side, green eyes finally finding blue. She scooted backwards onto the bed and laid down on it, a grimace on her face as her body got adjusted to the new position before she relaxed. Her hand reached over to where Zoey was standing at the edge of the bed, stretching until she made purchase with her fingers.

Tugging on the hand in her own, Kassandra pulled Zoey towards her, hoping she would lay down next to her as well. When they were both comfortable, Kassandra stared back up at the ceiling, losing herself in her own head for five or so minutes until she began to speak. "My dad cursed me." Her voice came out softer than Zoey had probably ever heard it and to add to that, it sounded so distant... Like she was a million miles away. "Before I was born. I don't really know when. All I know is that in exchange for him growing stronger, his firstborn would be given a curse. The curse of foresight." Her hands weren't doing their normal thing that they usually did when she was anxious, the expression on her face blank. Emotionless. "Its not what anyone would think it is... It's not a full-fledged vision. Its just... Flashes. Flashes of my future. Flashes of other people as long as I'm a part of their lives. I saw my mom kicking me out before it even happened. I saw something bad happening before I knew that my mother had been..." Taking a deep breath, she closed her eyes for a moment as if collecting herself. A few more moments passed and it almost seemed as if she'd fallen asleep until she spoke again.

"I had flashes of you. Or... Well... I thought they were of you. And I got so scared. That I'd hurt you." Still she didn't look at Zoey as her eyes opened once more, focusing on the ceiling above her instead. "I'm poison, Zoey. Everyone I get near, I destroy. My mother. Aurora. My friends from high school. All of them knew me and knowing me was enough to send them all fleeing. Something inside of me is not good. I know that now." One of her hands moved to lay over her heart, fingers curling slightly against the fabric of the hoodie. "But then there's you. For the first time since I was sixteen... There was a spark. Someone that made me want to pretend that I'm not this messed up person that pushes other people away because she'd been hurt so many damned times. I couldn't stop myself from getting to know you. And it was so easy. Like breathing. But then I had flashes. Of me and a woman with blonde hair having... And I thought that... That I could change my fate. But it was never you in those flashes, I know that now."

Everything was coming out in slow and even tone, Kassandra still just staring at the ceiling. She'd never been this calm while talking about her feelings but this whole disassociating with a concussion seemed to have loosened her tongue and her worry. "That woman tonight reminded me how broken I really am. I've been pretending since I was eighteen that I'm not. That I'll be fine. That everything is just one big fucked up mess and it's just how its meant to be." She bit her lip, not even wincing this time as she was too lost in her own head before she turned on her side to face Zoey. Green eyes found blue but it was as if she was looking through the blonde. "I look at you and I want to be selfish. I want to be okay. I want to kiss you until we both can't breathe. I want a lot of things. Things I can't have." Her eyes seemed to focus on Zoey's for a moment, lids heavy with sleep. When her face had gotten closer to Zoey's, she had no idea. "Things I don't deserve." Kass whispered, head moving forward against the pillow until her lips were mere millimetres from Zoey's, her breath puffing against them. Eyelids slid closed fully this time as the almost faintest brushing of lips occurred. And then? Nothing. Kass didn't close the microscopic distance, didn't pull back. She just stayed there until finally it was clear what had happened; her hand clutching to the front of Zoey's sweatshirt, the brunette fast asleep.

 Zoey: 

Everything that had been said to Zoey was a lot to take in, and she was partially thankful that Kass had fallen asleep. There was no way she’d be able to articulate the response that Kass deserved right away. So, the illustrator stayed awake. She made sure to wake Kass up every forty minutes to ensure she didn’t fall into a coma due to her concussion, and then just thought out everything that had been laid before her. Their upbringing, their lives couldn’t be more different if they tried. Zoey’s father and step mother had done everything to protect her growing up. This left the artist wondering just what words she could offer to provide comfort. 

Fortunately, staying up late or even all night wasn’t something that bothered Zoey much. She’d spent many nights up until morning before a deadline to make sure everything was perfect. So, she was happy to keep nudging Kass awake and letting Nugget up on the bed to lay at their feet. After nudging Kass into semi consciousness at seven in the morning, the blonde called her dad and asked if he could open up the shop for her. The friendly man was happy to help even before hearing the reason why, and Zoey was thankful. She promised that she’d get in eventually, but he told her not to worry. Between the Inn, the comic shop, and her work as an illustrator, he was worried about her running herself a little ragged. With that taken care of, and Noreen being more than capable to handle things at the Inn, Zoey started on a light breakfast. She made them toast, two fruit bowls, and poured some OJ. When it was all set she placed Kass’s food on her side of the bed on the nightstand, and did the same with her own on her side. She’d already placed some aspirin beside the brunette too because she was positive she’d need it.

Zoey carefully crawled back into bed and placed a kiss on the brunette’s cheek. She’d been tempted since their brush of lips last night to finally kiss Kass, but she held back. They obviously had things to talk about, and she was happy that the other woman would be more conscious and alert to take in everything she had to say. When green eyes fluttered open, the artist smiled. “Good morning beautiful,” she said sweetly. “Take it easy getting up, okay? I’m pretty sure you’re going to feel like one big bruise.” The blonde did her best to help the woman maneuver into a comfortable position. It didn’t take long for Nugget to waddle his way between his owner’s legs and settle back down to sleep. Zoey smiled at the adorable dog. “Before I say anything, how much do you remember telling me last night? You didn’t embarrass yourself or ruin anything before you panic. I just need to know how much I need to fill you in on before I respond. You passed out on me before I could.”

 Kassandra: 

Drifting in and out of sleep all night was honestly a terrible experience. Kassandra wanted to be grumpy but it was all her own fault. Luckily though, this pattern of barely any sleep made it so she wouldn't dream which was a blessing. Soon the morning light and Zoey stirring her woke her up again. Her body felt like it had a concrete mold poured atop it, the woman groaning as she struggled to move her limbs. A kiss was placed against her cheek and finally did she allow herself to open her eyes. One of them looked definitely worse for the wear and it would have been slightly comical if not for the reason she'd actually gotten her shiner. "Good morning, babe." Wincing as she sat up, Kassandra leaned against the headboard just in time for Nugget to excitedly meet her. Reaching forward, the brunette began to pet him just as Zoey started talking once more. And suddenly, just like that, she was wide awake.

Everything about last night was a hazy blur. Except for the fight, that is. Trying to remember everything after that came slowly, like waves lapping at the shore as the tide rolled in. "I..." Placing a hand against her face, Kassandra closed her eyes as she tried to remember it. She'd gone to Zoey's.... Taken a shower... And then she'd talked on the bed with h--The color drained from her face, her hand falling into her lap as she looked at Zoey directly. "Oh. I told you about... Me." Swallowing thickly, she immediately brought her hands together as she started to pull and pinch at her fingers, anxiety very apparent on her features. "So now you know, I guess. Uh... Surprise? I've never actually... Told anyone about those. So if you could just keep it between us.." She trailed off, mind racing as more bits and pieces of last night began to flutter in and out of her memory. One particular memory swam into view and Kassandra felt her stomach drop like a rock. Was that just a fantasy or had that actually almost happened? Should she even ask? Fuck. "Did I... I tried to kiss you. Was that... Did that actually happen?"

 Zoey: 

Zoey patiently waited for everything to come to Kassandra. She took a bite of her toast and took a sip of her juice. When everything did come, she set the cup back down. Thankfully, she finished swallowing her sip because she was sure she would have accidentally spit it out by the last question. For some reason, she hadn’t expected it, and she didn’t let her mind settle on what had almost happened because she’d crave it even more. After clearing her throat she answered, “You brushed your lips against mine.” Blue eyes sought out green so the woman beside her could see how she wasn’t at all mad. “I didn’t lean the rest of the way in because I didn’t want to hurt you, and I want you a little more conscious when we have our first kiss.” The artist needed Kass to know she still was interested. Reaffirming that throughout the conversation was her biggest priority. 

“I’m not going to tell anyone about anything you told me. That’s — it’s not my story or information to tell. You never have to worry about me betraying your confidence.” Gossiping was never something that the blonde liked taking part in. The most she’d share with her siblings, Jack, and Dex was how much she liked Kass and what she liked about her. Everything else, that just wasn’t necessary for anyone else to know. “I’m not going to say sorry because I don’t pity you or think that anything about you is so sad that you need an apology. They, from my experience, apologies never really do much. People say them so often, they’ve lost their meaning and morphed into something less genuine.” That didn’t mean that Zoey didn’t apologize when she needed to, but she reserved them for when she truly hurt someone. “You said so much, and I spent the night wondering what was the best way to tell you how I feel about it all, but I still just don’t know where to start. So, if I make a jumbled mess of this, please just ask me to clarify something.”

Zoey moved on the bed so she turned her whole body towards Kass. She bit her bottom lip nervously for a second before letting out a sigh. “All I care about are two things. Firstly, will you ever hurt me intentionally? Secondly, will you always try to talk to me? If the answer to the first is no and the second yes, then nothing else matters in my eyes. I don’t see you as this living, breathing, walking bundle of destruction. Relationships come with hurt. My parents have the best marriage I’ve ever seen, but that doesn’t mean I haven’t seen them hurt one another. Either through stupid words, forgetfulness, or just moments of complacency it’s happened. So, I wouldn’t walk into anything with you expecting not to get hurt. That’s just — it’s an unrealistic expectation that will just lead to disappointment. You can’t have that expectation either. All that matters is your intent.” Intent meant everything to Zoey. It was the difference between forgiveness or not in her eyes. While she was incredibly caring, she wasn’t stupid. If anyone hurt her purposely, then she no longer kept them in her circle. Cutting them out completely wasn’t possible due to the size of the island, but the relationship she had with the person would never be the same.

“Lastly, when it comes to the idea of deserving me, you — I can’t have you looking at it that way,” she said softly to ensure she didn’t come off as angry at the phrasing or idea. She just believed it wasn’t healthy for either of them. “If I want to be here, you need to trust my judgement about what I think I can handle, and what I see in you. You keeping yourself away from me or stopping something from happening because you think it would be selfish due to an idea of you destroying me would mean that you don’t think I can make my own decisions. You’ve laid everything on the table for me, and I took none of it lightly. I sat with it in between waking you up throughout the night. The conclusion I came to is that I want to show you how special you are to me. I can’t predict the future and say it will end well, but I can say that even if I knew it wouldn’t, I’d still say the same because the journey would be worth it no matter the ending.” With that, Zoey let out a breath she hadn’t even realized she’d been holding. She thought over everything she’d said, and she was happy with it. All that she wanted to get across, she thought she had. That was what she cared about most.

 Kassandra: 

When. The word repeated itself on a loop in her brain for what felt like eons. It began to jumble in with everything else that Zoey started to say and when the illustrator began to speak up on how she felt, panic settled in her belly. But it wasn't panic, not really. It was nerves. Butterflies, more like. Something that she hadn't felt in so long. It washed over her like a tidal wave and honestly she was probably having the wrong reaction to everything that Zoey had just said to her. Was continuing to say to her. It all felt surreal and also right on the nose to how the blonde's nature was. From the moment she'd met her, Kass had known that Zoey wasn't the type of person to beat around the bush when it came to stuff that needed to be said. The only thing that hadn't been so blatantly obvious to her was the whole feelings avenue but that's because of her own emotional constipation. She waited and waited, the butterflies consuming her stomach, making every nerve-ending feel like it was on fire. For the first time in over a decade, she felt... Relieved? It was strange, not having any secrets. Well... Mostly. She didn't know if she was ready for that discussion. Hell, she didn't even know how she truly felt about that whole situation anymore. It's not like she was getting anywhere with it. Maybe she didn't have to continue down that path... Maybe it was finally time to let all of her demons lie.

Without even processing what she was doing, Kassandra once again had her body moving of it's own accord. Her body was stiff from what had happened the night before but she couldn't stop it even if she tried. There was a small smile on her face as she moved out from under the covers and towards Zoey who was still sitting there on the bed, no clue as to what was about to happen. The brunette now had moved so that either leg was straddling Zoey's lap, sitting down as gingerly as possible while also putting most of the weight on her knees. Her right hand cupped Zoey's jaw, thumb tenderly caressing her cheek. "No." She answered honestly, swiftly realizing that she hadn't specified what that was for. A laugh bubbled out of her throat as she quickly tried to clarify. "No, I won't hurt you with intent. And yes, I will always try to talk to you. Whatever I feel for you... I'm going to be honest, I'm not fully prepared for it. Honestly I'm kind of scared because I'm used to being hurt. But I... I trust you. I want to try." Another giggle came this time before she turned serious, green eyes finding blue. "May I kiss you?"

Normally she wouldn't have asked. You see, Kassandra West had always taken what she wanted. Women weren't playthings, sure, but she did have fun with the ones that consented to just sex and only ever just sex. This was different. This was wanting the strings. This was desire before the kiss. This was excitement and joy and fear all wrapped into one big ball of tension. This was what her heart had forgotten it could feel. And sure, it might not end well. Hell, it might not even truly start. She honestly didn't know what would happen. But she wanted to try. Not just for Zoey but... Selfishly? For herself. She wanted. Right then and there, Kassandra catalogued in her mind to do some research into seeing someone that could help her with these mental hurdles that had been thrust at her from other people and then by herself. Whatever damage she had, she couldn't just continue to slam it onto Zoey. Not all the time. But for now? For now she waited with baited breath. And with the knowledge that her puppy was intently watching this whole thing going down with a lazy happy look on his face.

 Zoey: 

When Kass began moving, Zoey had no idea what to expect. However, she could safely say that she didn’t expect to have the brunette straddling her lap. It wasn’t a development she would complain about though. Her hands moved on their own to slide from the woman’s hips to the small of her back under the hoodie she was wearing. “I’m not going to go anywhere,” she said easily in response to Kass’ not being ready. “Whatever you are ready for, just let me know, and we’ll go from there.” 

The question caught her by surprise, but a small smile formed on her lips. Slowly, she arched her body up to brush her lips against Kass’ in the manner the woman had last night. “After teasing me with this last night,” she replied with a smirk. “Yes,” she finished as she tugged on the woman on top of her to get even closer somehow. A part of Zoey was worried about hurting Kassandra’s lip, but if the brunette didn’t seem to mind, then she wouldn’t either.

 Kassandra: 

Hands slid under the hoodie she was wearing, causing her back to arch up into the touch. Not from pain, from something else entirely. A blush settled on her cheeks as she fully realized the complicated positioning she'd put them in. How it must look to have the taller of the two on top. Probably a good thing they weren't at the Inn where her mirror was... Nevermind. Not the right time to think about this. Nodding at what the other woman had to say, Kassandra leaned down, her hand sliding from the girl's jaw to the base of her skull as fingers slid through golden hair. Just as she was about to kiss her, she winced and pulled back once more. "Okay I just need to make one thing abundantly clear." She murmured before pulling back to lock their gazes again, almost feeling bad for the dark pools that were staring back at her.

"I want to be good for me, not just you." Kass's voice was firm, resolute. And then it all crumbled when she realized how awful she'd worded that. "Wait, no... That's not what--That came out wrong. I just mean..." She trailed off, her other hand moving up to grip at Zoey's shoulder as she tipped her head back and sighed. "You deserve the best things, Zo. I think anyone that comes into your orbit knows that. And for a long time.. I didn't think I deserved that same regard. But I do." Kass nodded, as if reaffirming that to herself before smiling shyly at Zoey. "Now that I got that out of the way... Are you sure you're okay with me kissing you? Because if you want me to go even slower, I can. I'm also straddling you. Which normally..." And thus began the rambling.

 Zoey: 

Zoey’s eyes were about to close when she heard Kass start talking again. Her eyebrow arched in silent question of what else the brunette wanted to talk about. It was somewhat torture. The artist was positive she’d never been more turned on in her life, and they hadn’t even done anything yet. Although, their build up had been going on for weeks. Her limited experience didn’t tell her if this was customary or not. However, when she heard Kass speak, she couldn’t help but giggle. “I like the way you said it,” she answered honestly. “I want you to do your healing for yourself. I want to be a bonus to what you do and who supports you. I don’t want to be your reason.” That was far too much pressure, and that could cripple a relationship if done too early. 

Relationship. Was that what she wanted? She’d been so focused on trying to see if Kass could feel the pull between them too that she hadn’t thought about it. However, the word didn’t give her worry or anxiety. Instead, she thought of more dates, sleepovers, and days with Nugget. All of it was pleasant and warm. They’d cross that bridge when they got to it though.

When Kass started rambling again, Zoey smiled as she brought one hand up, fisted the front of the hoodie the brunette was wearing, and gently pulled her down so their lips connected. The blonde tilted her head for a better angle and couldn’t help but sigh into the kiss. After a few seconds, she pulled back slightly and noticed that her breathing was heavier. That reaction from just a kiss? An amazing, butterfly inducing kiss, but still, the simplest of contacts? ‘Gods,’ she thought to herself. How she was going to resist the woman on top of her was a mystery. “Sorry, you were taking too long,” she said bashfully. “You rambling is seriously cute though.”

 Kassandra: 

Lips pressed to her own in a gentle manner and Kassandra felt herself melt. Fingers tightened against the base of Zoey's scalp, scratching gently. It wasn't anything more than a pressing of lips and she was already out of breath. Zoey pulled back sooner than she would have liked but maybe it was okay because she needed oxygen, her lungs feeling as if they were on fire. When she apologized for kissing her because Kass had taken too long, the woman in question smiled widely as her nose crinkled. "You're lucky I like you, Katz. I don't let just anyone call me cute." Licking her lips, she took stock of their position and came to the conclusion that this simply wouldn't do. Gently pressing a finger to Zoey's shoulder, Kass pushed her down onto the bed as her arms went on either side of the other woman's head. Nugget jumped off the bed, deciding that this was getting a little too cramped for him and began running circles around the couch. 

Kassandra brought her hand to trail her knuckles down Zoey's cheek, turning her wrist slightly to run her thumb along Zoey's lower lip. Cheeks were rosy and her curls were messy but she didn't care, not giving it a second thought as she leaned down. The second their lips touched, Kassandra felt butterflies fill her stomach once more. She couldn't tell if that was her who moaned but at this point she didn't care as her lips slid over Zoey's in what she hoped would one day become a practiced motion. Normally her hands would be trailing across skin, undoing buttons and tearing off bras. Not this time. Not with her. Her hands remained on either side of Zoey's head, being as respectful as she could. She hadn't even allowed herself to deepen the kiss, giving the blonde full control. After all, they had time.

 Zoey: 

When she heard what Kass said, she couldn’t help but smirk. Zoey leaned forward and placed a kiss on the woman’s cheek. “What about adorable,” she asked before moving to place another kiss on the woman’s jaw. “My favorite is nerd though,” she added lastly as she moved down to place a kiss on Kassandra’s neck. Barely managing to show some restraint, she pulled back slightly, but when she did she just kept going until her back hit the mattress. Blue eyes looked up at Kass and felt her body temperature rise gradually.

Between the feeling of the pressure of the other woman’s body and the kiss, Zoey knew she moaned and couldn’t care less. The kiss lasted longer than the last, and when she broke it, she went right back in for another one. She wouldn’t allow herself to deepen it though. Gods, she wanted to. But, she could feel the cut on Kass’ lip and worried about it splitting open again if she lost control. So, in between another series of kisses, she mumbled, “considering how badly I want to bite your bottom lip, I think we stop before I make you bleed.” Zoey’s hand had traveled further up the brunette’s back as they kissed, and she felt it resting between slender shoulders. She couldn’t help but be thankful that she hadn’t dug her nails down. That would have caused more pain than pleasure with the bruises she’d seen last night. In an attempt to keep her body from reacting, Zoey just kept talking. “In the spirit of full disclosure, I’ve never felt this much before,” she said as she lightly tugged on Kass to let her weight fall a bit. It wasn’t like the other woman would squish her. “Sex wasn’t something I even thought a lot of. I found it as a necessary act sometimes in relationships, but I never wanted it. Then, well, I feel, no I know I want you. I just, when it happens, know I won’t know much of what I’m doing.”

 Kassandra: 

Restraint was definitely not her best friend but she could manage. She wasn't a complete and utter horn-dog. At least, not all the time. There was just something about finally kissing Zoey that had her wanting to not stop. Not until they both couldn't breathe. Not until they were both...... Okay, nevermind. Maybe it was a good thing that the blonde was telling her they should cool off. Kassandra couldn't stop the pout though, lower lip slightly jutting out as she sighed. The pout faded away as the woman underneath admitted something that she hadn't even thought to question. "You've never... Felt this much?" Her head cocked to the side adorably, choosing now to get off of Zoey. If she stayed on top of her, then Kassandra might keep kissing her and eventually this position would make her ribs ache more than they already did.

Moving backwards, Kass moved to lay down next to the blonde. Her body rolled so it was flush against Zoey's, entangling their legs as she reached down with a hand to interlace their fingers together. Bringing Zoey's hand up to her lips, she kissed the other woman's knuckles softly, her eyes fluttering shut as she did so. "Have you ever been... Have you ever had sex with another woman before? Also uh... Just so you know its not one sided. I want you. More than I ever thought I possibly could. But I won't ever put you into a position that you don't want to be. When and if you ever feel ready..." Her gaze was soft, green eyes finding blue before she placed a gentle kiss to Zoey's temple. "I haven't... It's just been sex to me. A way to get off. To let off steam. I don't want that with you. One day, if you you're okay with it, I want to..." Kassandra's gaze drifted down to Zoey's lips as she pulled away to look at her. "I don't want to rush, I want to spend the time to commit every inch of you to memory. If that's alright, I mean." The brunette whispered, suddenly feeling very self conscious.

 Zoey: 

When Kass moved to lay beside her, Zoey easily turned on her side to face the woman as well. The blonde still couldn’t believe how anyone could see the brunette as anything but a giant softy, but she wasn’t about to complain. “I’ve never felt this much physical attraction to someone before. It’s never been hard for me to be restrained in these things, but I seriously struggle around you and love teasing you. I seriously think I sometimes do it without realizing,” she said with a chuckle. It was just so natural to do. Half of the things she did around Kass she did without thought or much effort.

“I’ve never had sex with a woman before, no,” she said with a shrug. “The only person I have had sex with is Theo. I’ve kissed girls before, and I know I’m attracted to women. I just — I guess I’m more complicated in seeking relationships than most people.” Zoey never rushed getting into one, and she was very comfortable being in her own company. The artist loved those around her so much that she never felt lonely or rushed to find that sort of connection. As Kass continued to talk, Zoey closed her eyes and counted to ten slowly. They were laying on her bed talking about something that would not cure the burning she suddenly felt in her lower abdomen. “Trust me, wanting to or being ready to isn’t the problem,” she said with a smile once she opened her yes again. “It’s more that this between us is something, and I want to make sure we do it right. You’ve been hurt before, and I want you to feel safe and ready before you get into something again. I can wait. I’m not going anywhere.”

 Kassandra: 

The knowledge of Zoey never having sex with a woman before was only slightly terrifying. She'd had encounters with women before that she'd been their first time and yeah, she'd bragged about how good she'd make it for them. And sure, on some level she probably did. But that was hard and fast. There were no pleasantries. Barely any kindness. Just booze and getting fucked until you passed out from exhaustion. Kass had only ever done it slow with one person and the thought of going slow, of letting herself strip down? She wasn't quite sure if she was going to be able to handle it. Come to think of it... She couldn't remember the last time she actually fully removed all of her clothes while being with another person. Maybe that was okay, maybe it was better that way. To not remember her when she was laying next to someone who she was desperately trying so hard to trust.

Biting her lip, Kassandra nodded in response to everything Zoey told her. She wanted to respond, to give her some kind of reassurance that without a shadow of a doubt, she was with her. That she wasn't going anywhere. Could she give that to her? Could she give the one thing that terrified her? "Thank you... For caring. And I wish I could just tell you I'm ready right now. Because... Hell, I want you. I want you more than I've wanted anyone in a long time. But you're right..." Kass sucked in a deep breath, eyes closing for a moment before exhaling and opening them. "I have been hurt before." Green eyes looked down at their joined fingers, playing with Zoey's. "I can tell you about her.. If you want. T-Them. I can tell you about my ghosts."

 Zoey: 

Some people might be disappointed at the answer they got, but Zoey honestly wasn’t. She was happy that Kassandra was honest. It was healthier that way. Jumping head first into something that terrified you would only lead to problems, and that wasn’t what she wanted for them. “I don’t wish that,” she said sweetly as she pushed down the urge to flip Kass on her back and straddle her hips. Those ideas were getting distracting. “I want what’s best for you. I really do care about you which means being selfish with you isn’t something I can let myself do. I promise that if I ever get really upset or sad that I’ll talk to you because pushing what I want to the side all the time isn’t healthy either, but I’m really okay with waiting. Finding you is already such a bright spot that I didn’t expect to happen when it did. I can be patient for anything else.” Being around Kass without escalating things would be hard, but Zoey figured she could find some buffers. Brining Kass around her friends would happen eventually anyway, and that was a sure fire way to keep things cooler between them when they hung out.

“You don’t have to open all of your deepest wounds for me right now, darling,” she promised as she leaned forward ever so slightly and pecked the woman’s lips. It had been a solid ten minutes since they last kissed, and that was just bothering the artist apparently. “It’s not some exchange that you have to give me to validate you needing time or anything. I think you need to come to terms with them first before you can share them with me. Otherwise, it could just bring up a lot of nasty, mean memories that you aren’t ready to face again. I’m already going to have a hard time sleeping when worrying about you joining Fight Clubs late at night. If I add worries about you having nightmares, you’ll never leave this bed.”

 Kassandra: 

On some level, Kassandra didn't believe that she deserved this. Not the kindness or the patience or the caring. But here Zoey was, doing all of those things and making her want to kiss her until her lungs felt like they were on fire. So when Zoey pecked her on the lips, for one mind-numbing minute Kassandra almost let herself indulge. Almost being the operative word. "I'll talk about them when I'm ready, promise. Having one be dead and the other a million miles away from me--I guess it makes it easier to finally move on. I never think I really realized how much I was holding onto while I was in Portland." For a moment she got lost in yester-year but just as quickly snapped out of it. 

A grin did settle over her face at the idea of never leaving this bed with Zoey, the idea ramping up the temptation she already felt. "If you keep teasing me about staying in this bed, then I'll eventually have to do your bidding." Kass' grin turned into a smirk as she took the opportunity to roll onto Zoey, straddling her once more as she pinned the blonde's hands above her head in a fluid but gently motion. Leaning down, she moved her mouth next to the other woman's ear to whisper sweetly into it. "Is that what you'd want, Zoey?" Kassandra pressed a heated kiss to the blonde's neck, chuckling lowly. "No one's ever made me beg before." The brunette pulled back enough to lock their gazes, eyebrow arched as she looked directly to Zoey's lips. "Maybe that's about to change."

 Zoey: 

The blonde was about to respond to the more serious conversation at hand when she suddenly found herself back on her back with a weight once again against her. Her hands being pinned up above her head added another element of arousal she wasn’t ready for which caused her to subconsciously roll her hips upwards as a light moan left her lips. The words, the kiss, and sensations were enough to make even Zoey say screw it all to hell and give into everything stewing between them. Was it the opposite of what she’d said literally minutes ago? Yes, but she couldn’t find an ounce of care in her body right then. It was all being drowned out by need instead.

When green eyes met her own, she knew her gaze most likely reflected the arousal she felt coursing through her. “I do have the perfect headboard to keep you chained here, Kass,” she teased back without even thinking much about the words she was saying. Her voice was lower than she was used to hearing it, but her attention was completely on the all too satisfied woman above her. “Although, being the one to finally make you want to beg is enticing. Tell me, Kass, is knowing how much I want you driving you crazy? I bet me adding that waiting isn’t my problem didn’t help either, huh?” Acting innocent while being downright flirty was apparently Zoey’s game, and she wasn’t about to pivot away from it.

 Kassandra: 

The smirk would have dropped off her face at the mention of being chained to the headboard if she hadn't remembered that they wouldn't be able to contain her. "You're adorable if you think that's going to be able to stop me. I'm kinda strong, remember?" She wanted to keep teasing but then Zoey started doing just that, her voice low and husky to a point that Kass felt her whole body heat up. A growl tore through her throat at that comment, one of her legs moving to slip between Zoey's own. "You drive me crazy. And I think I do the exact same thing right back." Green eyes were surely dark with lust by this point and as she moved her body forward to bring their lips together, she tried to ignore the way her thigh moved of its own accord.

One hand held down Zoey's wrists after bringing them together while the other trailed down her body to bring a hand under her shirt to lightly graze against her stomach. Pulling back slowly, she kept their mouths close together, each word that she spoke causing lips to trace over the others in a tempting motion. "Say the word and I'll play nice, Zoey." She pressed a kiss underneath the blonde's jaw, sucking softly for a moment before looking back at her with yet another smirk. "Because if you're fine with it, I'm fine with acting like a horny teenager and making out with you for the better part of the afternoon. Or we can just relax and watch a documentary?" Kassandra offered, moving her thigh upward in a complete acknowledgement of what she was doing. "Tell me what you want and I'll do it. Your wish is my command." If Zoey could do the whole innocent move, Kassandra would definitely be a little demon.

 Zoey: 

“If you’re going to break my bed, I don’t want it to be with you getting out of restraints.” Zoey was partially surprised at how easily the flirtations came from her. It wasn’t like it was a banter she partook in regularly. Yet, it was surprisingly instinctual. When a leg slipped between her own, Zoey let out a gasp. Her back arched slightly as she moved her hands to grasp at Kass’ hips. She nearly gripped tightly but was still sound enough to remember the bruises that could still be there. “You know we do,” she said with a breathy chuckle. “We’ve been teasing each other for weeks.” The words were barely out before they were kissing again.

“A documentary,” she asked back with a smile. “First off, I’d start showing you anime, but we both know we wouldn’t watch it. We’d wind up just like this or something like it, but on the couch.” Her eyes closed as she thought about whether she’d be able to restrain herself. Considering how much her hips wanted to grind down on the thigh pressed against her, she didn’t think restraint would be her strong suit. “I want you right here. I took the day off. My dad is covering the shop. Let’s not waste it.”

 Kassandra:

Zoey was going to be the death of her, she was sure of it. Between her gasps and the way her body moved perfectly against her own, Kassandra was in utter fucking bliss. "I wasn't trying to, if I'm being honest I was kind of nervous when it came to doing anything too forward with you. You made me nervous but in a good way. Don't worry about that." Kassandra blushed, kissing her once more with vigor, all tongue and teeth nipping on lips as she pulled away before Zoey spoke again.

'I want you right here'. The words Zoey uttered made her mouth go dry and her stomach do flips. Just as she was about to lean down and kiss the blonde again, that all too familiar feeling washed over her. Her vision blurred before her expression went blank as three flashes repeated behind her eyes. A suitcase being loaded into a car. A small scar on a cheek. Waves crashing onto the shore. To anyone that was watching her, all they'd see is Kassandra go completely still while her eyes moved rapidly back and forth. Her breathing had halted as the images assaulted her vision until they disappeared, leaving her trying to get her bearings on top of her--well, she didn't know exactly what Zoey was to her. But that was an interesting choice of direction her brain had almost led her to. "I... Sorry, sorry about that."

 Zoey:

The kiss took Zoey’s breath away and made it difficult for her to actually focus on them wanting to go slow. She reciprocated with as much urgency as she received and was definitely breathing harder when Kass pulled back. She was about to lift her head up to trail kisses along the woman’s neck when she noticed the change in Kassandra’s demeanor. Everything seemed to freeze for the woman on top of her, and even when she lightly called her name, she got no response. Not quite knowing what to do, Zoey just patiently waited to see if there was any sign of her coming out of whatever was happening. 

When Kass spoke again, Zoey moved one of her hands to cup the woman’s cheek. “Hey, sweetheart,” she said with an easy smile. “Either, I’m affecting you way more than I realize, or that was an example of those visions of yours that you told me about. It was kind of like That’s So Raven,” she said teasingly. She wanted to joke to show that she really wasn’t upset about it happening when it did. It wasn’t like the woman could control when they happened. “You okay? Do you really need that documentary?”

 Kassandra: 

Nodding slowly, Kass sighed and chose this moment to lay down onto Zoey, nuzzling into her neck. "If I'm hurting you by laying on you, just let me know. I don't wanna smoosh you." Kassandra breathed out against her skin, knowing full well that their height difference of doing this was comical at best. "Would you hate me if I told you that I never watched that show. I was more of Phil of the Future kind of girl. Aly Milchalka can get it." Biting her lip, Kass brought her head up enough to look at Zoey before giving her a small peck on the mouth. "I'm okay," She said gently before nuzzling back into Zoey's neck. "But yeah that's what happens... I don't really know what it means. Maybe I'll figure it out later. Remind me to write it down later okay?"

Kassandra hummed into Zoey's neck contently, allowing her eyes to close once more as she felt the heavy weight of sleep hitting her once more. All thoughts of the food that Zoey had brought her faded from her mind as she snuggled into the woman beneath her. "I'm gonna take a little bit of a nap on you which means prime cuddling with Kassandra time. Push me off if I get too heavy. Okay babe?" The words were mumbled sleepily as she let out a small yawn, her breathing evening out in seconds as, true to her word, she drifted off to sleep.

 Zoey: 

The blonde giggled lightly as she started rubbing up and down the brunette’s back absentmindedly. “You’re not heavy, Kass,” she promised as she felt her eyes begin to droop. Not getting any sleep was going to catch up to her quickly with them staying in bed, but she wasn’t against some nap time. Especially when it was with such a gorgeous woman. 

“Mm, okay,” she mumbled back as sleep began to claim her too. 

#zoey ft. kassandra #kassandra #discord 2 #cinnamon roll meets sinnamon roll

[madexinxheaven]

@whoxyouxhate​ said: 🚼 - Does your character have or want kids? @ the mains

“I always figured it would happen eventually.”

Caitlyn’s affections to the idea of motherhood are born first from her family life; Being an only child to two VERY loving parents. And second from the mess that had become of the slums. From saving Vi and taking her in as her partner in the L.G.D to the lab experiments and kids saved INADVERTANTLY when she was just tryna rescue her parents... Caitlyn has and always will have a soft spot for kids. I mean, how could she NOT with memories of her mom rocking her on the way from Victoria? With memories of her dad teaching her how to shoot? With memories of them getting her very first RIFLE at eighteen? How could she NOT want to do that herself? For her own kids? Of course, nowadays, Jayce has disillusioned her to the idea. But maybe if she’d ever be able to find a love that DIDN’T burn out...

���Maybe there’s still time...”

“Me? Kids? I... Can’t say I’ve really thought about it...?” 

Honestly, she still felt like a big kid herself. Exusiai’s outlook on LOVE & LIFE was still very bubbly and immature, founded on hypermania and sociopathy. Sure, she was CARING & OPTIMISTIC ENOUGH, and would likely be good in the role of a caregiver. But... But could she actually be a FULL-TIME MOM? Honestly, she wouldn’t even know where to start. The idea made her feel SUFFOCATED. Fears that she’d grow BORED or FRUSTRATED or that she’d inevitably come upon a bridge she didn’t know how to CROSS. Oh, God, what if her kid needed ADVICE? What would she do then? Heart palpitations were going crazy at this point. God, there were no VACATIONS in motherhood. And no adventure either. And WAAAAAY too much responsibility. 

“Yeah, I don’t think I’m ready to think about that kinda thing...”

“W-Wait... You... Isn’t it a little too EARLY to be talking about KIDS?”

Makoto was still very much a kid herself. A fact her elder sibling seemed so determined to DRILL into her head. Freshly graduated and still in training for her DREAM JOB. Not to mention looking after her own big sister and being essentially still dependent on the older woman for stability and shelter. Yeah, Makoto really did NOT have enough years in her yet to open her mind to the possibility of being a mother. But maybe in time she could. Maybe she could pass down her Buchimaru collection? That’d be kinda cute, huh? But now was SO NOT THE TIME to think of that kinda thing. first she had to finish her training and actually prove to Sae Niijima that Makoto COULD make a career out of being an Inspector for the Lungmen Guard Department. Then and only then could she worry about everything else. Like...

“Whether I have kids or not, I won’t end up like my father...”

“Kids? What kinda crazy fuck would find the balls to ask that?”

Swire was, in every sense of the word, a SPOILED BRAT. She also just so happened to be one of Lungmen’s proudest patriots. And, despite all appearances, the girl took her role as Superintendent VERY seriously. At least, as seriously as one could with friends like Hoshiguma, Yushia, and CH’EN HUI-CHIEH. The girl had all the money in the world and no time to spend it. Not to mention all the bad run-ins she’d had with every single parents in this Godforsaken city. Lin was kinda cool, tho. But that HARDLY counted. Honestly, Swire just didn’t wanna end up like her Granddaddy. Didn’t wanna end up TERRORIZING her kids. Raising yet another generation of herself, Ch’en, Talulah and Yuhsia. Hadn’t they themselves been through enough? Wasn’t it about time those kinda tragedies came to an end? Way Swire saw it, if she could stay kids with the people around her? (As kiddy as they had done, at least.) Then that in and of itself would be a HAPPY ENDING.

“Yeahhh, look, here’s the thing: Adults suck. And I’m not about to be the villain in another kid’s story.”

“There are two necessities in this world. Good parents. And people to protect them.”

What a foolish question. What a foolish question, born of IGNORANCE and DISPARITY. Honestly, it was such a perfect exhibition of how MISALIGNED their realities were. Their outlooks on the world, cold and grey as it had always been. Talulah had been daughter to MANY a father. And yet, all of them, without fail, had fallen short of protecting her. And of the few who hadn’t abused her? Well, they themselves had no one to protect THEM from abuse. Such was life. The world had been allowed to turn for far too long without change. The corrupt held a MONOPOLY on FATE. And the poor pawns were crushed beneath them. Talulah had seen this countless times with her own two eyes to a point where she could no longer tell the DIFFERENCE. Perhaps, at one point, she had indeed wanted children. Perhaps, that girl in the photo, smiling as she clung to the shoulders of her EMOTIONALLY-ERRANT SISTER... Perhaps SHE could’ve been a mother. Perhaps she WANTED TO BE. But that girl was DEAD. And while Talulah’s name remained. She now knew, deep down, just what role she had to play in this terrible, GODFORSAKEN, world...

“...Some people are meant to have kids... But I’m not one of them...”

“Hah! Holy shit, you’re stupid. What kinda fucking question is that?”

Still despite all outward appearances, the question seemed to DISTURB something deep inside W’s chest. One that could very well have kept her up at night. For as long as memory held, she’d been holding STEADFAST to this story that she couldn’t even remember her own BIRTHDAY. Whether or not that was true was NO ONE’s BUSINESS except her own. But it did perhaps hold the first clue of what drove W forward as a person; Seemingly rushing toward the future with a CACKLING LAUGH, CRACKLING DYNAMITE, and a tendency to DESTROY rather than to CREATE, W definitely seemed to have far more to her than she’d ever let anyone know. And as for where children and normalcy fit into that story? Reality was... They really COULDN’T. Even if she wanted them. Even if she wanted love. Which she’d swear up and down ‘til it killed her that she DIDN’T, there was still a matter of fact that... She WAS a criminal. She WAS a terrorist. She WAS a MURDERER. And yet she was still so far away from her goals she couldn’t even BEGIN to think emotionally. 

“Have you even met me? I don’t think you’ve met. You can call me W. Now, please, fuck off.”

“Kids...? Hm. That’d be nice, huh?”

A novel idea and gentle question, if asked with a little TOO MUCH optimism. Yuhsia used to be like that at one point. So it wasn’t like she could hold it against the other. But the simple fact was... Yuhsia may just have been the furthest away from having kids than ANY of the above. And that was ESPECIALLY IRONIC considering she’d already had names picked out for her and Ch’en’s babies. Okay, that wasn’t ENTIRELY true. Look, she was a kid back then, okay? She had a stupid. Childish. Crush. Like, come on, people back then wanted to be SPACE ELVES and HEROES and CAT BURGLARS. None of ‘em actually meant it... Right? The name’s were Ryoko and Kuma, by the way. Which weren’t terrible creative, considering they literally stemmed from “Dragon” and “Mouse” respectively. (What? They were PRETTY!!) But those days were long past. Yuhsia was a GROWN UP NOW. She’d let go of those SILLY notions and that STUPID crush. And those sad reminders of what USED TO BE. (Used to?) And long come to terms with the fact that... Well...

“But let’s be honest here. If I have kids at this point. It’ll just be so father doesn’t run out of heirs...”

#GONNA OD THIS AS A QUOTE AND A LITTLE SENTENCE OR TWO ABOUT THEM AS A MUN <3 NLK NKLNDKL FNKLNF NFKNFLKN FDK FNLKND F #fds fd oiNNS NFN KLFN #F FNKL FNKLF NFLKN LFKDNFDN DFNF LKFNL KFD #WELP HERE WE GOOO OFDS NKLSFD DKFLN DLKFN KFLN FLKNK L LF FK FL KF FN F #CAITLYN GIOPARA #[ CAITLYN GIOPARA ] + [ SHERIFF BY DAY. HUNTER BY NIGHT. ALL ALONE IN THE MOONLIGHT. ] #EXUSIAI #[ EXUSIAI ] + [ A FALLEN ANGEL WITH A KILLER SMILE ] #MAKOTO NIIJIMA #[ MAKOTO NIIJIMA ] + [ I WILL DO WHATEVER NEEDS TO BE DONE. HOWEVER IT NEEDS TO BE DONE. ] #BEATRIX SCHWIRE #[ BEATRIX SCHWIRE ] + [ THE NAME'S BEATRIX SCHWIRE -- SENIOR SUPERINTENDENT OF THE LUNGMEN GUARD DEPARTMENT... AND YOU BETTER NOT FORGET IT #TALULAH ARTORIUS #[ TALULAH ARTORIUS ] + [ I THINK IT'S TIME FOR A FAMILY REUNION. A FAMILY FUNERAL. AND HONEY I HOPE YOU SHOW. ] #W #[ W ] + [ FINALLY THINGS ARE STARTING TO GET INTERESTING~~!! ] #YUHSIA LIN #[ YUHSIA LIN ] + [ BLOOD RUNS DEEP; THROUGH VEINS & THROUGH STREETS; HAIL TO THE RAT KING; BUT IT'S HER TIME TO RISE ] #WHOXYOUXHATE #MUSES #HEADCANONS

[enneagramwingmiranda]

Friends: The actual enneagram types of Rachel, Monica, Ross, Chandler, Phoebe, and Joey

The Protagonist Friend: Rachel Green [Type 3] 

“You know what I figure, if I can do laundry, there's nothing I can't do.”

Enneagram Wing: 3w4 (Achiever along with an individualist)

"It's like all of my life everyone has always told me, 'You're a shoe, you're a shoe, you're a shoe, you're a shoe.' And then today I just stopped and I said, 'What if I don't want to be a shoe? What if I want to be a purse, you know? Or, a hat?'"

Core Fear: Of being worthless

Core Desire: To feel valuable

Childhood wound: You must be extraordinary to deserve love. 

Rachel’s deepest fear is not reaching her full potential in life and this is the driving force behind all of her actions. The symbolism of her being a runaway bride in the pilot episode demonstrates just that, she doesn’t want to settle or live a mediocre life. In adolescence her need for value and significance is demonstrated in her popularity, being head cheerleader, and holding a legacy of being the mean girl. The mean girl trope in pop culture often shows that the meal girl’s deepest vulnerability is feeling as if she is less than others. Being mean to others is her coping mechanism to continue feeling superior. In adulthood, Rachel leaves behind a life of privilege she finds unsatisfying and chooses the ‘road less traveled’ for individuals of her upbringing in which she must achieve things on her own. We see Rachel start from the bottom and make her way to the top. Her career becomes a big part of her identify in that she even neglects her first true love for it. We see that Rachel’s father instilled this childhood wound of valuing superiority in his mistreatment of the lower class. 

The Best Friend: Monica Geller [Type 1]

“And remember, if I’m harsh with you it’s only because you’re doing it wrong.”

Enneagram wing: 1w2 (Reformer along with a helper)

“I've got this controllable need to please people!”

Core Fear: Imbalance

Core Desire: Balance

Childhood wound: You must always be better than you are.

Monica’s defining trait is her need for order in her life and environment. She notices all inconsistencies and errors in not only her home organization but the state of her friends appearances and actions. Her OCD tendencies is a running gag in the series. On the contrary, Monica is very caring and nurturing. She is always there to lend a helping hand and advise her friends. Unlike the rest of her friends, Monica is very aware of where she wants to be and what she wants in life. She feels a sort of instability when her life doesn’t go according to the plan she envisions. She has a hard time adapting to change shown the mourning of Richard and her roommate Rachel. However, she’s not afraid to walk away from things that she knows won’t serve her in the long run even if its hard to do. She cannot relax unless she feels she is living up to the high standards she has set for herself and others. She does not hesitant to let others know where they fall short. Not only does she calls others out but tries to steer them in the direction to what they deserve. We see that Monica’s perfectionistic ways are rooted in her childhood wound from her mom’s constant criticism of her.

The Friend Who Loves Hard: Ross Geller [Type 5]

“You’re means you are. Your means your!”

Enneagram wing: 5w6 (Investigator along with a loyalist)

“You know what the scariest part is? What if there's only one woman for everybody, you know?”

Core Fear: Incompetence

Core Desire: Proficiency

Childhood wound: You must acquire all the knowledge otherwise you are helpless and incapable. 

Ross’s defining trait is his intellect. He often annoys his friends with constant talk of paleontological topics and his need to always be right. Ross not only values education and knowledge but also security. He fears being alone and often takes the leap of faith with romantic partners, however, his trust issues get in the way and result in self sabotage. He exposes his childhood wound in later seasons: his father made him feel incompetent due to his love of dinosaurs and playing with dinosaur toys as a child. Ross also struggles with feeling less of a man and this can be linked to his enjoyment of role playing as a woman as a kid and being ridiculed for it. 

The Friend Who Opens Up: Chandler Bing [Type 6]

“Until I was 25, I thought that that the only response to ‘I love you’ was “Oh, crap!’”

Enneagram wing: 6w7 (The loyalist along with an enthusiast)

“I’m full and yet I know if I stop eating this I’ll regret it.”

Core Fear: Isolation

Core Desire: Comfort

Childhood wound: You must succumb to your doubts because the world is not a safe place anyways.

Chandler’s defining trait is his pessimism. He uses sarcasm and humor as a defense mechanism for his deep insecurity and fear. Chandler longs for closeness and security in his relationships but often sabotages any chance at lasting love. He sticks with what is known and comfortable because it’s predictable (he constantly reconnects with Janice despite his dislike of her). He knows he is a lot to handle so he greatly values his friendships because they accept him for who he is and provide him support and validation. It makes sense that he ends up with Monica because their foundation being built on the already existing trust from friendship, thus providing him safety to trust and open up. Despite Chandler’s neurotic tendencies, he is a fun loving person. Joey, being a 7 himself brings this out in him. 

The Friend With A Heart of Gold: Joey Tribbiani [Type 7]

“I like it. What’s not to like? Custard? Good. Jam? Good. Meat? Good.”

Enneagram wing: 7w8

“You can’t just give up! Is that what a dinosaur would do?”

Core Fear: Being unfulfilled

Core Desire: Contempt

Childhood wound: You must sow all your wild oats or you will be eternally unhappy.

Joey’s personality is defined by his enthusiastic yet easygoing nature. Joey’s main concern is to go out and have a good time. He wants to enjoy life however when things don’t go his way he never lets this get him down. He is quite dimwitted but often acts as the wise fool encouraging his friends and sticking up for them whenever needed. He never really commits to anything, bouncing from job to job and woman to woman. He is essentially always looking for the next big thing and he seems to never find it. Joey’s lack of commitment also demonstrates that he doesn’t really desire the security that comes with it. He subconsciously feels as if he is completely self-sufficient (8). His childhood wound is exposed when discussing his family line. He was the only boy out of 7 sisters and felt as if he had to set up and be the protector. We can assume that his parents having so many children to resulted in him lacking the attention and nurturing a child is supposed to have then. 

The Intuitive Friend: Phoebe Buffay [Type 8]

“If we were in prison, you guys would be like my bitches!”

Enneagram wing: 8w7/8w9 (Balanced: Challenger along with an enthusiast and peacemaker)

“That’s not running, let’s goooo!”

“I have to go before I put your head through a wall.”

Core Fear: Being harmed

Core Desire: Self-protection

Childhood wound: You must be totally independent because relying on others only results in harm.

Phoebe shows many traits of several enneagram types, for instance she shows hints of a 7 and 9 but her assertiveness and independent nature stands out from the rest. Her childhood wounding defines her personality traits, quirks, relationship dynamics, and her lifestyle. From a young age she had to learn how to defend herself and take care of herself due to the abandonment of her caregivers. She is the least connected to her friend group and for a long time lived on her own while the rest of the friends were each others roommates. She refrained from developing any long term relationships and we can first think that it’s because she doesn’t want that. It is later revealed that she never put much thought it which suggests that her independence is engrained into her being. It’s simply all she knew. However, Phoebe’s challenging nature is balanced out by her wings. She can stay positive and be fun loving (7). She develops a alias, Regina Phalange to get in and out of mischief. Her wing 7 is why she identifies with Joey so well. She also can play the role of the mediator to help her friends work out their issues (9). Phoebe also desires to be at peace with all, even her sister Ursula who is totally disinterested and uncaring. She desires world peace and advocates for animal cruelty and vegetarianism. Phoebe is probably the most emotionally healthy character despite having the roughest upbringing. 

#friends #friends tv show #enneagram #enneagram 3 #enneagram 1 #enneagram 5 #enneagram 6 #enneagram 8 #enneagram 7 #monica geller #rachel green #phoebe buffay #joey tribbiani #chandler bing #ross geller #1w2 #3w4 #5w6 #6w7 #7w8 #8w7 #8w9