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soloorganaas · 1 year

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hey tasha I’m not caught up w this season yet so I’m going purely off your reblogs but does the armorer fuck with her helmet on

ty zo for asking the important questions as always 🙏🏻

in line with its importance I did a lot of reflection and research on the Way of the Mand’alor to find an answer. also bc the religious law aspects of it fascinate me. there aren’t many clear and specific details on this tenet beyond “don’t take your helmet off” so to answer this q I’m going to extrapolate from both the law itself and my interpretation of its purpose, as is ✨the way✨ of my Jewish ancestors

to me this tenet is about being the pure and uncompromising embodiment of a Mandalorian. armour is both a representation of identity and serves a practical purpose, both of which are tied together - it shows that you are a warrior and allows you to be a warrior. whenever we see Mandalorians in any context, they almost always have their full armour on, with or without the helmet. when wearing their armour they are always ready for battle and their duties as Mandalorians, but then their appearance as Mandalorians also carries with it the expectation of an honour code

obviously the notable exception to this is the politicians and citizens we see in Duchess Satine’s New Mandalore before it falls deeply into civil war. but it’s this turning away from the traditions of Mandalore that drives so many Mandalorian resistance and terrorist groups to battle against Satine’s government which ultimately spirals into the wars that break Mandalore apart

the most extreme devotees to armour and the traditions of the Mandalorians are Children of the Watch, of which the Armorer and the Tribe are part of. for them, not removing your helmet stems from adherence to the Way, the ancient practice of the Mandalorians that had fallen largely out of style by the time of the Empire. given the importance all Mandalorians still place on wearing their armour in some form in the modern era, I imagine adherence to the Way gradually evolved over the centuries to become less strict and more in tune with the practicalities of life, meaning Mandalorians could take their helmets off for example

this is pretty comparable to how Judaism evolved over time. Bo Katan is very much a “secular” Mandalorian in that she took the Creed but didn’t place much religious meaning in it, but she’s still devoted to her people and being a Mandalorian above all. similarly, Children of the Watch are something akin to Haredi Jews, whose extreme adherence to Jewish law evolved as a reaction to Jews falling away from religious practice in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. Children of the Watch was established some time during the reign of the Empire, after 19 BBY but before the Great Purge in 2/1 BBY, as a reaction to how other Mandalorians had abandoned the Way

so what I take this all to mean is that the ideology of the Tribe and the law of the Way which dictates never removing your helmet is about the absolutely permanent representation of being a Mandalorian and existence as a warrior, so that your enemies can simply never see you as otherwise. with your face covered they can never see your vulnerability or your emotions, they can only strength, power and tradition. in practical terms you are literally always ready for battle. so to be without any part of their armour would leave them vulnerable both in terms of the monopoly they have over their identity and others’ pereception of them, but also physically as people who are always “both hunter and prey”. it’s not actually about not removing the helmet specifically, it’s about not removing any of the armour. it’s just that not removing their helmets is what distinguishes them from less orthodox Mandalorians

the law is just an expression of the broader purpose and history of Mandalorian armour. the law isn’t inherently the reason itself - although like all orthodox religions that nuance tends to get lost amongst the strict adherence to the law. Din, for example, won’t remove his helmet even if he’s mortally injured and needs medical assistance. the Armourer is just as a devout but also incredibly intelligent and with a rich understanding of the Way and its purpose in Mandalorian life, so I have to wonder what her own interpretations and boundaries are

despite the law, we know orthodox Mandalorians do actually take their helmets off for practicalities: they take them off at least daily if they’re alone (Din mentions this to a non-Mandalorian in season 1 ep 4); we know they take them off to eat; they presumably take their armour off to wash and sleep. from this we can assume that when wearing the armour isn’t practical and/or doesn’t align with the inherent purpose, it’s acceptable to remove. and we know the Tribe have kids and families so they definitely do fuck

so my thought is essentially that if you’re in a situation of vulnerability and intimacy where there’s no purpose in having your armour on and taking it off wouldn’t make you less of a Mandalorian then yeah, you do remove it. if you’re married to someone, bound to that person through all the joys and hardships central to Mandalorian life, then that’s a closeness where the need for the identity and protection of armour can sometimes be relinquished. and on a practical level, you need to take at least some of your armour off to have kids, so I think adherents to the Way would have found a justification for it, as all orthodox religions do. both hijabis and married Jewish women can take their hair coverings off at home around their husbands/kids/siblings/parents because, essentially, the protection hair coverings offer against immodesty isn’t necessary, and there’s no loss of identity around your close family (painting with a broad interpretive brush here)

given the extreme to which the Tribe take their adherence to the Way I’m going to imagine this bar is very high. like you and your life partner alone in bed is the only time allowed, you know. no lounging in swimming pools together or going down on your gf in a public bathroom

so, essentially: I don’t think it’s a matter of the Armorer fucking with her helmet on and taking the rest of her armour off (or even part of it) bc it just doesn’t make sense. but I think if she and Bo made some life long commitment to each other (like lighting the Great Forge together at the reclamation of Mandalore idk I’m just spitballing here) then it would be ✨acceptable✨ to take their armour off for each other when they’re alone

thank you for coming to my ted talk

#nitearmor #bo katan x the armorer #bo katan kryze #the armorer #the mandalorian #zo tag #asks #otp: remove your helmet #i simply cannot write fic about this without developing a detailed headcanon that makes sense to me in universe #meta

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kyber-collector · 1 year

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Are the Mandalorians in a Cult?

BITE Model Breakdown- Din Djarin’s Children of the Watch:

Today I am here to once and for all answer the pressing question on everyone’s minds: Is Din Djarin’s Mandalorian tribe (Children of the Watch) actually a cult? Bo Katan Kryze refers to The Tribe as a cult when speaking with Din, but does the group actually qualify as such? Here I will be laying out an in-depth analysis using Steven Hassan’s BITE Model of Authoritarian Control to effectively answer the question that Mandalorian fans have been asking since the beginning.

TDLR for those who do not want to read the entire post: no, it is not a cult.

*Please note, I will only be including tactics and traditions seen on screen in The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett, and therefore only delving into the specific subsect known as “Children of the Watch” or “the Tribe”, not the original Deathwatch or other sects.

First, a little background. What is a cult?

Most dictionary definitions of a cult read something like the following:

“a religious group, often living together, whose beliefs are considered extreme or strange by many people”

If we are going off of this definition alone, the question seems to have a clear-cut answer. The Watch is an orthodox religious sect, the members live together in a covert, and many characters throughout the series express confusion, disapproval, and judgment towards their beliefs. However, the issue is much more complicated and nuanced than this, as there are many facets to what makes an organization a cult. Thankfully, we have a very useful tool at our disposal: Steven Hassan’s BITE Model of Authoritarian Control. Created by Hassan in 1988, the BITE model aims to identify and flesh out a set of criteria characterizing dangerous cults and other authoritarian groups.

BITE stands for:

Behavior control

Information control

Thought control

Emotional control

Breaking down each criterion one by one, here is how the Children of the Watch measure up:

Behavior Contro

1.Regulate individual’s physical reality

The physical reality of individual Tribe members is significantly regulated. The group controls where its members live and what they may wear, demonstrating a degree of power over the physical realities of members.

2.Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates

Members of the Children of the Watch live together in compounds called coverts, where they remain hidden for their own safety. In Din’s covert, only one member of the Tribe is allowed to leave the covert at a time.

3.When, how and with whom the member has sex

We do not see any restrictions placed onto the Mandalorians when it comes to sex– though they are not allowed to show their faces or remove their helmets, there are realistic ways in which Mandalorians could still engage in Creed-compliant sexual activity (see: popular fanfiction tag “the helmet stays on”.

4.Control types of clothing and hairstyles

The Children of the Watch are very strict when it comes to attire, requiring members to never remove their helmets at risk of excommunication/exile. Once a member of The Tribe is old enough to speak the Creed, they are awarded a helmet that they may never remove in the presence of another living being.

5.Regulate diet – food and drink, hunger and/or fasting

We see no dietary restrictions, fasting, etc. implemented by the Children of the Watch.

6.Manipulation and deprivation of sleep

Though members of the Tribe likely may become sleep deprived while on missions or other outings, we do not see sleep deprivation intentionally utilized as a means of control.

7.Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence

While members of the Children of the Watch maintain the ability to seek out their own employment (Din working as a bounty hunter, for example), we see the income earned from this work being presented to a spiritual leader within the organization. After Din is paid for collecting a bounty to the Guild, he extends the Calamari Flan and beskar that he earned to the Armorer. This implies a degree of financial control within the Tribe. I hesitate to include this point, though, as Mandalorians bring beskar to the Armorer not out of a sense of fear, obligation, etc, but because they believe they are returning it to its rightful spiritual owners. The beskar given to the Armorer is also often returned to members in the form of newly forged weapons and armor.

8.Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time

An argument could be made that the leisure and vacation time is controlled by the Tribe, as only one member is allowed to leave the covert at a time. This is not, however, done with the intention of authoritarian control– it is a matter of safety.

9.Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet

Considerable chunks of time appear to be used for battle and combat training, which in this context can be viewed as ritualistic. There are also initiating rituals for young foundlings and apprentices, during which they recite the Creed and are given their first helmet which they may never remove.

10.Permission required for major decisions

We do not see members of the Tribe seeking permission from leaders for any major decisions. Though members may seek guidance from spiritual leaders such as the Armorer, they are not required to.

11.Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative

Rewards and punishments may be given within the Tribe, but they do not appear to be used to modify behavior.

12.Discourage individualism, encourage group-think

Members of the Children of the Watch are all required to wear standard helmets, and all are required to follow the doctrine of the Creed (walk the way of the Mand’alor). Still, despite these points, leadership within the group does not appear to discourage individualism or creative thinking. Helmets and armor are allowed to be personalized however the wearer sees fit, and the Creed itself does not facilitate group-think.

13.Impose rigid rules and regulations

The most rigid regulation members must follow seems to be regarding helmet-wearing. There are other fairly strict rules laid out by the Creed, such as those surrounding foundlings, the darksaber, and rulership over Mandalore. The Creed also lays out a number of other rules members must follow, but these are closer to a moral and ethical code than to regulations.

14.Punish disobedience by beating, torture, burning, cutting, rape, or tattooing/branding

There is no evidence of the Children of the Watch engaging in any violent forms of punishment against members.

15.Threaten harm to family and friends

We do not see evidence of the Tribe engaging in threats against the families or friends of members.

16.Force individual to rape or be raped

The Children of the Watch do not engage in this kind of behavior.

17.Encourage and engage in corporal punishment

There are no examples of corporal punishment being encouraged or practiced within the Tribe.

18.Instill dependency and obedience

The Tribe does not appear to foster dependency, but it does instill obedience among its members. Mandalorians who do not obey the Creed may be exiled.

19.Kidnapping

The Children of the Watch do not engage in kidnapping. They do take in foundlings, or children who have been abandoned or orphaned, but I do not believe this qualifies as kidnapping.

20.Beating

There is no evidence of beating being employed by members of the Tribe.

21.Torture

There is no evidence of torture being utilized as a means of control by the Tribe.

22.Rape

(See 16.)

23.Separation of Families

The Children of the Watch hold strong family values, especially honoring foundlings and their training. Though families likely became separated during times of war, splitting up families intentionally has never been part of the Creed. In fact, when told that Grogu must forgo attachment to become a jedi, Din states that this is “the opposite of our creed”.

24.Imprisonment

The Tribe is not seen to engage in systemic imprisonment of either members or non-members; though bounty hunters like Din Djarin likely lead to individuals being imprisoned, this is not representative of the group as a whole.

25.Murder

The ideology of the Children of the Watch, as well as many other Mandalorian sects, heavily revolve around war, weapons, and violence. Consequently, murder is normalized, and has become routine practice within the Tribe. At one point, when Din explains that he did not kill Moff Gideon, Paz Vizsla and the Armorer have the following interaction:

Vizsla: “Death would have been justice for his atrocities.”

Armorer: “This is true.”

Information Control

1.Deception: a. Deliberately withhold information b. Distort information to make it more acceptable c. Systematically lie to the cult member

Spiritual leaders within the Children of the Watch do not deliberately lie, distort, or withhold information at any point we see on screen.

2.Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including: a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, media b. Critical information c. Former members d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking

The Children of the Watch do not minimize or discourage access to outside information through any means. Former members are exiled, but this does not appear to be related to management of information for the sake of control.

3.Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible b. Control information at different levels and missions within group c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when

All members of the Tribe appear to have access to the same level of information; every member knows and has access to the Creed, as well as other crucial information. The Armorer does not have control over who knows what, nor does she compartmentalize information (from both inside and outside sources).

4.Encourage spying on other members a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member b. Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group

Members of the Children of the Watch are not encouraged to spy on each other. There is no evidence of buddy systems, reporting “deviant” actions, or monitoring within the group.

5.Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including: a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media b. Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources

The Children of the Watch do not have any sources of cult-generated information that we see, such as newsletters, holotapes, etc. There also does not appear to be intentional misquoting of non-tribe sources.

6.Unethical use of confession a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories

If a Mandalorian confesses to removing their helmet in the presence of another living creature, they will be exiled from the Children of the Watch. Forgiveness and/or absolution are possible, but can only be given by bathing in the living waters on Mandalore. Information is not used to disrupt identity boundaries, nor to manipulate memory.

Thought Control

1.Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth a. Adopting the group’s ‘map of reality’ as reality b. Instill black and white thinking c. Decide between good vs. evil d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)

The Children of the Watch require every member to follow “the way of the Mand’alor” and adhere to the Creed, a doctrine laying out rules members must follow– as well as a singular view of what a “true” Mandalorian is.

2.Change person’s name and identity

Members of the tribe maintain full control over their names and identities.

3.Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words

The Children of the Watch does not appear to utilize loaded language and cliches to stop critical thinking. The phrase “this is the way” is a saying often used as a simple response to questions or as an affirmation, but I do not believe it is used to reduce complexities or stop critical thought.

4.Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts

There does not appear to be any encouragement or discouragement of certain thoughts within the Children of the Watch.

5.Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member

Hypnotic techniques are not employed by the Children of the Watch.

6.Memories are manipulated and false memories are created

We do not see any evidence of memory manipulation within the Tribe.

7.Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including: a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking b. Chanting c. Meditating d. Praying e. Speaking in tongues f. Singing or humming

While certain members are seen meditating, this meditation does not appear to be utilized as a tool to control thoughts. Din Djarin does use denial, rationalization, and justification when he comes to learn that his sect is considered extreme or abnormal, but these tactics do not seem to be systemic within the group.

8.Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism

The Children of the Watch do not appear to reject critical thinking at any point in the show.

9.Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed

At no point do we see questions being discouraged or forbidden by members or leaders of the Children of the Watch. All questions asked by members receive genuine answers, such as when Ragnar Vizsla asks why Grogu doesn’t wear a helmet, or when Din Djarin asks the Armorer about Bo Katan Kryze.

10.Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful

Other groups of Mandalorians are viewed as “illegitimate” by the Children of the Watch, as removing their helmets does not adhere to the way of the Mand’alor. This can be seen when Din Djarin first meets the Nite Owls: they remove their helmets, and Din immediately assumes the armor has been stolen and that they are not really Mandalorian.

11.Instill new “map of reality”

Members of the Tribe must adhere to the Creed, which acts as a “map of reality” and outlines what a “true” Mandalorian is. We also see this new “map of reality” discussed when Bo Katan Kryze asks the Armorer about the Mythosaur: Bo Katan says that she saw it under the living waters on Mandalore, and the Armorer simply tells her that “When you choose to walk the way of the Mand’alor, you will see many things.” This shows that members believe in a shift in reality surrounding membership.

Emotional Control

1.Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish

At no point do we see emotions or needs deemed as evil, wrong, or selfish by the Children of the Watch. Most members do appear unexpressive and monotone, but this is likely due to the constant wearing of face coverings.

2.Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt

We do not see any emotion-stopping techniques used by the Tribe.

3.Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault

There is no evidence of blame-shifting within the Children of the Watch.

4.Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as: a. Identity guilt b. You are not living up to your potential c. Your family is deficient d. Your past is suspect e. Your affiliations are unwise f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish g. Social guilt f. Historical guilt

Mandalorians in the Children of the Watch likely do experience some degree of guilt, as they are required to follow a strict moral code in the form of the Creed. However, these feelings do not seem to be actively promoted by leadership within the Tribe.

5.Instill fear, such as fear of: a. Thinking independently b. The outside world c. Enemies d. Losing one’s salvation e. Leaving or being shunned by the group f. Other’s disapproval f. Historical guilt

The Children of the Watch engage in shunning, excommunication, and banishing. This occurs when a member of the group does not adhere to the Creed, for example by removing their helmet. By Creed, once a member is exiled they are no longer considered Mandalorian and may only seek redemption by bathing in the living waters under the mines of Mandalore.

6.Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner

Love bombing and extreme highs and lows are not utilized by the Tribe to manipulate members.

7.Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins

Din Djarin, after taking off his helmet in the presence of another living creature, is questioned by the Armorer and forced to confess in front of Paz Vizsla before he is swiftly excommunicated and exiled. Whenever asked, Mandalorians are required to vow that they have been loyally adhering to the Creed.

8.Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc. c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends and family d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family

(See 5.)

Conclusion

After analyzing each individual point on the BITE model and applying it to The Children of the Watch, I have come to the conclusion that no, Din Djarin’s covert is not a cult. Though the group is quite orthodox in its beliefs, it does not engage in authoritarian control over its members.

If you enjoyed this breakdown and would like to see more posts like this in the future, let me know! I may do a BITE model analysis of the Jedi order if enough people are interested.

#I spent so much time on this #please tell me people care about this topic #star wars #the mandalorian #the mandalorian s3 #din Djarin #bo katan kryze #ragnar vizsla #the armorer #deathwatch #children of the watch #star wars analysis #star wars thoughts #cults #bite model #the helmet stays on

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ragnarssons · 1 year

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you know, actually delving on youtube on videos of people talking about s3 of the mandalorian, i think i actually narrowed the problem for me? and like how people feel like din and grogu aren’t main characters anymore? because tbh, i’d say no character is actually the main character, just vehicules to the storyline, and that’s where it defeats the purpose of the story to begin with? it’s like how the plot drives the show, rather than the characters driving it. it’s the usual problem of writers wanting to put too much in a season. which happens to a lot of tv shows, and can be course-corrected right the next season, hopefully. because yes, you could argue that din djarin and grogu “took a backseat” this season, “they have no evolution” blah blah... but ignore din and grogu for one second. let’s say that yes, bo katan is the center of the season, the main character. what is her journey? what is emotionally her evolution? we see none of that. she’s taken here and there by the storyline, not even fighting it. like on episode 2 she challenges din on his belief system, still mocks the children of the watch, calling their beliefs “children’s stories”. but then at the end of episode 3 (where we barely see her because it’s the pershing episode), she actually joins the covert and is left like “???” at the end of the episode. yet on episode 4, nope, she doesn’t question it, she doesn’t challenge it, she’s just there, because actually the storyline needs her to blend into this group to actually understand their way of life and vision of the mandalorian culture. she loses her ancestral family home, and at no point does the show explore that, the emotional devastation it probably is for her, to lose what could be her last connection to her family that has been wiped out by the empire, the clone wars, etc. on the clone wars and rebels, bo katan is actually a complex character, being challenged by the storyline, struggling and evolving. on the mandalorian, she’s pretty stale because the storyline needs her to be. she’s passive in her own story, taking the darksaber even tho she has shown no prior sign of wanting it (on s3, i mean), getting back with the night owls even tho they supposedly betrayed her and abandoned her. like... no hard feelings about that? since when? and then you have the armorer. if we’re to believe emily swallow’s interviews from the star wars celebration, her accepting that bo katan walks both ways is actually a true evolution from the armorer. her challenging her views, changing her ways and accepting that mandalorians have different visions of their belief system. yet, on the book of boba fett, the armorer was still head-on saying that mandalore fell because so many mandalorians fell out of the way. so why not actually show this evolution through the season? well because the storyline needs to move forward, and they don’t have time to show it. same goes for din and grogu. we have so little emotional scenes of grogu and din, actually being reunited about what is supposed to be two years, grogu engaging on this path of becoming a mandalorian apprentice, and barely any emotional reward to these storylines. again, because the show doesn’t have time. and that’s what has been bothering me about, again, the two big monsters attacks on the mandalorians, we’ve got stuff being repeated, yet not enough time for rewarding, character-centric moments. again, action, plot, over characters. and that’s saying that, looking back at s3 structural intention. and i don’t know what plot-point i would deem uninteresting or not worthy of being on the show. i actually really loved that episode 6 took time to explore the separatists remnants and this whole political idea of the plazier-15 system, so i wouldn’t throw all the episode to the garbage, just like i loved how the nevarro storyline tied in with greef karga giving refuge to the mandalorians. just like i liked how “the foundling” explored this sense of family and belonging amongst the mandalorians as people, together, rebuilding and working together. just like idc, i loved the criticism of the new republic and the complexity of rebuilding after the damages of the empire, that were shown on episode 3. in universe, all these plot points are important to give depths to the background of the story, and what will ultimately be the setting of not only the mandalorian, but the ahsoka show, and the movie that will follow. i’d argue myself that it also tended to happen on the earlier seasons, but we felt it less because it was just din and grogu, with the occasional recurring characters visiting. but here where the stakes are higher, and the group of characters bigger, we feel it more. we have less din and grogu, because they’re part of an ensemble, but also we have no real character, so it’s like, kinda hard to understand why we don’t have as much din and grogu as before, yknow?? i do think the story wouldn’t have felt that way if the writing had been more challenging with the characters’ inner motivations, and not just din and grogu, but bo katan as well. she would have been a more compelling character to root for for “general audience” (who don’t know her from the clone wars and rebels) when she gets the darksaber at the end of episode 6. and yes, din finding a way to have grogu belong would have been more satisfying had he questioned his faith, their clan among the bigger clans and the future of mandalore etc. could the show still do it on s4? i believe so, but it could have been something for s3 as well. i guess then i’ll circle back to saying that either the episodes needed to be longer, or they needed one to two more episodes to this season, and i feel like it could have been a way better balanced storyline, giving to the characters and the plot real time to shine.

#star wars #the mandalorian #the mandalorian critical #i really DO NOT think that either din djarin #or bo katan #or the armorer #or the mandalorian are OOC #like really not #but it's just that the characters' motives and goals and hopes #aren't fully explored #which is ironic considering it's the season where they're supposed to come together

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direwolfrules · 1 year

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3 Mandos and a Baby AU: Hijacking Death Watch

While Ursa and Alrich are in Sundari preparing their future Mand’alor for rule Bo-Katan is on Concordia desperately trying to set up a power base to take down Pre. Her Nite Owls are easy enough to recruit, most of them sided with her in her last life too. Really her main issues amongst her girls comes from Rook Kast and her insane group of True Believers.

Bo doesn’t really blame Rook for her sheer devotion to the cause, the girl wasn’t exactly a willing volunteer when she first came to Death Watch. Tor Vizsla’s old recruitment plan was basically just kidnapping kids and torturing/brainwashing them into obedient little attack dogs (Bo’s had a lot of regrets in her life, but one of the biggest would have to be willingly joining an organization that did that to kids). Sometimes it backfires really hard, like when Arla Fett full on snapped and killed Tor’s oldest son and preferred heir, Dral Vizsla, in the middle of the training yard.

The loyalty of some holdouts is easier to get than others. The Bralor twins and their brother have nearly deified Bo after she saved their little sibling from a training accident. The screaming match she had with Pre after, where she called him all sorts of names for putting a child in a live fire test, becomes legend amongst the Kyr’tsad. As does the shiner Bo proudly bears around base after Pre calls her to his office for “discipline”.

Bo can’t challenge Pre too much, tipping her hand too soon would get her killed. If not by Pre than by his followers or even, and the thought of this makes her shudder, his Sith backers. Sideous is just frothing at the mouth for an excuse to subjugate Mandalore, Death Watch provides the perfect humanitarian reason. She has to move in secret, for her people’s sake.

Young Lieutenant Patrok Ru-Saxon of the Sundari Protectors receives a mysterious comm message. It contains no words, only an address for somewhere in the lower levels of the dome city. He’s just gotten off a rather exhausting night shift and honestly he just wants to sleep, but the message gives him one of those feelings his buir said would make him a great investigator one day. Patrok follows the message, and there at the specified location is a folder, taped to the wall. He looks inside, blanches, and calls his boss to say he got an anonymous tip and they need to evacuate the Lily Flower Walkway and to get the bomb squad on the way right now.

Patrok may never know this, but his call that day saved the lives of 38 Mando’ade, 17 of whom were children on a school trip. Now every time he gets a message from that unknown comlink he comes running. He arrests dozens of corrupt officials, foils many Death Watch plots, and earns many promotions. Bo-Katan watches from afar and delights in her good judgement.

Pre is fuming. He’s lost so many loyal soldiers these past few years it’s been ridiculous. The Saxon brothers died when their Kom’rk’s stabilizers blew during aerial combat simulations. A faulty circuit led to a cascade failure in the part, and there went two of his best commanders. Ruusaan Jatte tried to change the mixture of her jetpack’s fuel again and wound up paying for the experiment with her life. His own cousin, Malos Vizsla, was caught red handed trying to poison ration packs heading to the Draboon system’s Protectors. Rather than face arrest and interrogation, Malos ended his own life.

Bo is having the time of her life. The Saxon brothers’ habit of never running a preflight check meant they never noticed a stabilizer circuit had been tragically damaged. Ruusaan Jatte’s love of experimenting with different fuel mixes provided the perfect opportunity to test out Amis’s newest explosive discovery (Ursa had told her over a bottle of netra’gal about how Amis had discovered if you add a very common accelerant to jet pack fuel, it’ll blow up. The fact that Ursa’s eyebrows were drawn on was not mentioned, though it felt relevant). And Malos Vizsla was just a happy accident. Those tips to Ru-Saxon were really starting to pay off.

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kalinara · 1 year

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So in my last post, I talked a lot about what I think they’re doing with the New Republic. Or at least, what I think the point is. (I think ultimately, we’ll see a move toward getting rid of the Imperial elements entirely.)

But I didn’t really get into why I think it’s happening in the Mandalorian. After all, it’s not like Din Djarin will be out to fix the New Republic.

I think there are two reasons: first, Moff Gideon is still a factor. He’s out there, and he’s going to be making trouble. My guess is that Elia’s working for him, and that Pershing will be fair game once he’s had his sessions.

But I think there’s a second reason too. And that’s the Children of the Watch.

Disclaimer: I ALSO still haven’t gotten around to watching the Clone Wars Mandalorian episodes (I really hate 3d animation! Sorry!) so I may be utterly flubbing up details.

As always, take me with a grain of salt.

So, Bo-Katan Kryze. I love her. I think her plot right now is fascinating. I really never expected to see her welcomed into the covert, or, at least for now, actually making a genuine attempt to live according to their customs. (Did Din realize that she’d be welcomed in? Is that why he’d recommended she not take off her helmet?)

I remember seeing some fan complaints about a twitter timeline that really seemed to white wash Bo-Katan and her past with the Death Watch, and presented both as opponents rather than allies/subordinates to Darth Maul.

It’s particularly interesting because in the first episode of the season Bo-Katan attacks the Children of the Watch, and other similar groups, for tearing apart Mandalore. She conveniently forgets to mention that she was part of one of those groups. Then we have that aforementioned twitter thing that mentions the Death Watch, but glosses over what they actually did.

It’s particularly interesting given that it’s very obvious that the Children of the Watch ARE Death Watch. Or at least a splinter group from them. They have a Vizsla. Din lived on Concordia. They could definitely be described as “embrac[ing] their history in combat” though they seem to avoid outright war.

That said, the Children of the Watch are also NOT the Death Watch. They’re, by Mandalorian standards anyway, practically pacifistic. They train to fight and defend themselves, but they don’t make war with anyone. They live by a fairly draconian creed, but there’s no indication that they seek to force it on others. Leaving aside the ethics of having a child swear to a binding oath before he’s fully able to understand (see also, the pre-Imperial Jedi), the punishment for breaking said oath is exile, not death. They can choose to leave at any time.

It is rather fascinating how much that description fits the Jedi as well, but that��s another meta.

But they do seem to keep the trappings of the Death Watch, don’t they? And how much do those trappings really mean? We see the Children of the Watch through Din Djarin’s eyes, but we’ve established that there’s a fuck-lot that Din doesn’t know that he really should.

Is everyone on the same page about the Children of the Watch? Does everyone want to be on the same page?

And then there’s Bo-Katan Kryze. This is where my knowledge of the Clone Wars fails me, but I feel like the Children of the Watch probably are really attractive to her. They’re traditionalists, but not terrorists. She might find the helmet thing a little silly, but they seem to have some pretty compatible values deep down. And after all her experiences, it might even feel good to strip away all the cosmopolitan trappings and feel the essence of being Mandalorian.

But she’s not a child. She’s not Din Djarin thirty years ago or Ragnar Viszla now. She has a past, and it’s a pretty bloody one. And there’s a good chance that at least some of the people in that covert remember that.

I’m not sure how old Paz Viszla is, but let’s assume he’s Din’s age or a little older. But where did he come from? Din kept his own name, though he hadn’t heard it in years. Paz’s name is spoken all the time. Dare we assume that he comes by it naturally? And if so, then did he know Pre Vizsla? Did he ever see Bo-Katan way back when?

And of course, there’s the Armorer, who wears Rook Kast’s colors and zabrak horns. Have we ruled out that theory yet? Would Bo-Katan recognize her? Thirty years is a long time, and it’s easy to be blind to things we wouldn’t want to see. Either way, the Armorer definitely knows Bo-Katan’s past.

(There’s an interesting CBR article that theorizes that Bo will expose the Armorer, which is fair. Rook Kast’s crimes far exceed Bo-Katan’s. But Bo is still keeping her own secrets.)

At any rate, the Armorer is the one who issued the invitation to Bo-Katan, in the same episode that Elia Kane lured Doctor Pershing into a trap. In a society that appears idealized, but still holds onto a lot of elements of its darker heritage.

Would an “it’s a trap” gif be appropriate here? Because I kind of think it might be.

#mandalorian speculation #problematic princess who pegs #(I really do love Bo-Katan - I find her fascinating in her flaws - so much fun)

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phoenixyfriend · 3 years

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👀 PLease tell us your thoughts about the Jedi babies re-growing up among different cultural contexts.

Oh fuck okay

Context: original post, chrono The specific post this ask is referencing: here

Summary of the AU: Disaster lineage got tossed back in time. Anakin stayed 21-ish, but Obi-Wan and Ahsoka got deaged, took new names for time-travel reasons (Ylliben and Sokanth, or Ben and Soka), are now staying with the True Mandalorians under Jaster Mereel because the Force said to, go back to the Temple after about a decade. They grabbed Shmi about three months after arriving.

So as far as the cultural background goes, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka had similar upbringings. She spent a few years on Shili first, but both spent the majority of their childhoods up to age 13/14 being raised in the creche. So that's the basis that they would default to, in a vacuum.

Nobody is raised in a vacuum.

Along with the Jedi cultural background, they're being raised by Tatooine natives in a Mandalorian environment.

Shmi and Anakin are both former slaves who have desert survival baked into their bones. The longer Anakin spends around her, the more his accent slips, the more he talks about old folktales, the more he uses idioms that don't exist on a cityplanet like Coruscant. All the things that he tamped down to be a Jedi come floating back to the surface, and Shmi's never known anything else. Anakin's knowledge of slave customs make her feel more comfortable, which in turn makes him feel better, and so on.

Mandalore is just... the culture they're living in. You don't grow up in a new culture with a new language without picking up on it personally. (Source: I moved to the US when I was a little under two years old.)

I think the thing I'm going to focus on as an example is the way each of these cultures approaches family, and then maybe how they approach the keeping of peace/what peace means.

Jedi: Where you come from means little, only the legacy you leave behind in your students. Mandalore: You protect your clan and your children; adoption is a major cultural value, if not actually practiced consistently. Tatooine: You can lose your family at any time, so you value what you have in all its forms. You don’t forget where and who you came from, to family of blood and family of choice alike. You cling to your memories and what little you still have of them, to what your master cannot take away.

These are all valid ways to approach family, and each of these approaches can have significant meaning to different people. But they do all, to a certain degree, conflict with one another, despite all three being fairly communal cultures.

The Jedi have a culture, one that’s built on a shared ability and religion over thousands of years. It’s not just an organization, but a continuous community with legends and traditions and art and records. But it’s one that is built on new blood coming in from the outside, volunteers who join because the religion speaks to them (near literally, given the nature of Force Sensitivity), given up by families who couldn’t or wouldn’t teach them in a way that let their talents flourish instead of pushing it all down.

For the Jedi, a culture built on people coming together due to something they have in common intrinsically that their families of blood do not, it makes sense to put emphasis on letting go of that past when they can, and to place importance on teaching lineages. It’s not just the official master-padawan pairs, either, but that’s the most obvious and easily paralleled element. Moreover, a lot of the Jedi culture is about gaining knowledge, so obviously spreading it is good, and also on supporting the galaxy to make it a better place; to view the Jedi order as a heavily communal culture would make sense, since their values are all about selfless betterment of the universe, which on a larger scale is about the galactic conflicts, but on a smaller scale is about supporting their own community, the children and the ill and elderly.

So that is the specific culture that Obi-Wan and Ahsoka grew up in, one that holds blood family as relevant but not particularly crucial to one’s identity, but is structured so people leave behind legacies through education in a manner that often becomes adoptive family (depending on your definition, I guess). Jedi are encouraged to connect to their home cultures, if not their families, with practices like the coming of age hunt for Togruta leading to the young Jedi taking a trip out to Shili to engage in that cultural milestone. This can also be viewed as a way for the Jedi to maintain personal connections to the wider universe, a (not entirely successful, but certainly attempted) way of keeping them from becoming too isolated and insular from the universe at large, and losing touch from what the galaxy actually needs of them.

They’re now growing up with two cultures that do place emphasis on blood and found family.

Mandalore, as presented in The Mandalorian, has their traditional values set as being heavily associated with their armor, battle skills, and childcare. While that’s clearly a set of values that aren’t actually followed by everyone with full sincerity, we can assume that these stated cultural values do have at least some impact on the way the society is structured, since we do see more traditional characters (Jaster, Din) adopt orphaned children and then have the Mandalorian elements of their immediate circles support that claim.

(We’ll ignore Jango and the whole clone army thing because the amount of Sith influence is up for debate and also holy trauma, Batman.)

However, we also see that a lot of Mandalorian culture is built on their family histories. On the New Mandalorian side, we see emphasis placed on the fact that Satine is House Kryze and that she’s a duchess. Her bloodline is relevant, though not the most important thing about her. On the Death Watch side, we have Pre and Tor placing emphasis on the fact that they’re Clan Vizsla, descended from Tarre, that this is important to why they deserve what the darksaber represents, this is part of why they not only deserve to lead, but should for the good of Mandalore.

Bo-Katan’s armor is a family heirloom. Boba’s armor was Jango’s, but before being Jango’s, it was Jaster’s. Armor is important enough to pass to family, but the family can be adopted. This all tracks.

The resol’nare specifies loyalty and care for the clan/tribe among the six tenets.

These two elements seem relatively well-balanced: the importance of adoption and the importance of family as a larger unit on the level of a house or clan.

And then you have Tatooine, which also balances blood and adoption, but for entirely different reasons, that being this: it can always be taken from you.

For all that a Mandalorian could historically expect their family to die in battle, and a Jedi could expect to lose their master the same way if things went poorly, those were usually choices. A Mandalorian was raised to walk into battle, and then they could make that choice to do so. It wasn’t often much of a choice, but they could feasibly turn their back and choose to be a farmer or a doctor or something, and support the people who went out to do battle instead of being the one on the field themselves. A Jedi could choose to be a healer or an archivist or join one of the Corps.

A slave does not get that choice. A slave can be killed or sold on a whim from their master. It’s not a one-time trauma, but an ever-present fear. Your parent, your child, your sibling, your spouse, all of them can be separated from you at any time. You can always lose them, and you have no choice but to grin and bear it, or try to run and die before you reach freedom.

In a context like that, I imagine Tatooine places a very heavy emphasis on family, both of blood and of choice, and on treasuring what you have while you have it. A person is always aware that they can lose whoever they have in their life, and so they make the most of their times together, have clear and consistent ways of expressing that love (I imagine primarily direct verbal confirmations and physical contact, practical gifts like water and fruit). Childcare is important, elders are venerated. Those who survived that far have valuable wisdom, and the children are to be given what happiness they can have before reality wipes that ability from them.

The family ‘networks’ among Tatooine slaves are smaller and tighter knit. There’s less trust for outsiders, but once you’re in, you’re in until you are taken away. Still, families are torn apart regularly, and often can’t contact each other after being separated if they’re sold far enough away, so families stay small because they’re always being broken up. Unlike Mandalore’s tribe/clan system, or the Jedi’s wide, loosely-structured community, Tatooine’s slaves form smaller groups that cling for as long as they can, and try to support each other. (There are selfish ones, of course, especially the newbies, but... well. Most try.)

Tatooine is also much more likely to assign a familial role (e.g. referring to an elder as ‘grandmother’). It’s not uncommon in the others (multiple Jedi refer to their masters as a parent or sibling, like Anakin’s “you’re like a father to me” line), but it’s not as baked-in that such a role should be given.

So on a structural level, we have two people from a community culture with little emphasis on blood family or formal familial roles are now being raised in a community that has them asking “what can you do for the people around you first, and then the wider world?” by people who tell them “your family, blood and found, is the most important thing you have; never let anyone take more from you than they possibly can.”

And that shit has an effect.

For all that Sokanth and Ylliben were once raised with a knowledge that their duty, their goal, was to better the galaxy as a whole, they are now being told that the community that raises them asks their loyalty back, because societies are built on support networks, and if you support the tribe, it will support you. There are parallels to that kind of thinking among Jedi, because it is basic social theory, but it’s not presented as the same kind of cultural value. It’s not given as something to strive for, just a basic fact.

This, for instance, means that once they’re back at the Temple, they have a tendency towards suggesting study groups and other ways of supporting people in their immediate circle, often structured in very unfamiliar ways. Again, this isn’t uncommon among Jedi, but it’s not done in the same way, or with the same emphasis. The Jedi also often approach problem-solving in a different order, so the step of “meditate on it and you may find your solution” often comes before “gather information from people who know more about it than you do,” while Ben and Soka have by this point learned to do it the other way around, because that’s what the Mandalorian system taught them: rely on your family first.

Meanwhile, the Tatooine element of their upbringing has them being much more willing to just... casually refer to ‘my dad’ and ‘my sister’ and so on. They use those words. It’s not just “my master is like a father to me,” but “this is my father.” They don’t hesitate to talk about the family they had and still have in Mandalorian space. None of the Jedi begrudge them it, really, but it’s always a shock to hear for the first time, and between the Tatooine refusal to pretend the connection is gone and the Mandalorian tendency to err on the side of roughhousing as affection, they’re just... odd. It’s not like none of the other Jedi know family outside the Order--some of the old books had Obi-Wan visiting his brother on Stewjon once in a while--or like none of the active Jedi are loud or boisterous, but the specific manner in which Soka and Ben interact with the Order, especially when their dad is around, is very weird.

More Soka than Ben, really, but that’s mostly just because Ben’s a very quiet person until he gets a little older, so it’s harder to notice on him.

Point is, while they still hold to their duty to the wider galaxy and will continue to keep that duty above almost anything else in their lives, the way they talk and act about the subject of family, especially in private, is heavily influenced by their new cultures.

This is already very long but I promised I’d talk about peace so let’s go:

The Jedi seek peace as an absence of war and conflict in the portion of the galaxy under their purview, in hopes that they will prevent as much suffering and death as they can.

The Mandalorians are varied, but Jaster Mereel’s group (which is the community the Skywalkers are with) is likely to view peace as unrealistic to achieve in the long term. They do not seek war, but they know the world they live in, and are prepared to protect against violence as their first resort. They always expect an attack, even if they don’t seek it.

The Slaves of Tatooine view peace as the calm in a storm. It is the status quo. Nobody has escaped tonight, for the guards aren’t searching, but neither is anyone dead. The Master you have is in a good enough mood to not sell you, to not kill you, to not beat you. Peace as an absence of suffering is impossible, so you seek for your master to be peaceful, that is to say: not raging at you.

The scope of each of these narrows significantly. From the known galaxy, to the wars that meet Mandalorian space, to the household one serves.

A community like the Jedi can choose to address peace as something to be sought on a large scale as an absence of war. They primarily function within the borders of the Republic, which has its problems but is largely structured to prevent such things from occurring until the Sith interfere. The Jedi have a structure that allows them to address peace as an ideal to be sought, at least within the borders of the territory they serve.

Mandalore, meanwhile, has been at war on and off for... ever. When they are not at war with themselves, they’re at war with someone else. ‘Peace’ is just the time between wars, and they know that if they do not attack first, they will be forced to defend. Jaster Mereel was known as the Reformer, and part of that was that instituting a code of honor, one that was intended to prevent Mandalorian warriors from acting as raiders and brigands, but rather acting as honorable hired soldiers, or taking roles such as the Journeyman Protectors. Given that, I imagine that he views war as something inevitable, but also something that can be mitigated.

War doesn’t touch Tatooine.

Oh, it might raise taxes and import rates. It might prevent visitors who come for the races. It can do a lot of things.

But to a slave, these are nothing. The only thing war does is affect the master, the person who chooses when their slaves get water, when they get beaten, when they are no longer useful enough to keep around or keep alive.

The peace of a slave’s live is dictated by how much abuse they are subjected to by the person who owns them.

What this means for Soka and Ben is... well, they are viewed as war-hungry by the people who don’t know them very well. They have armor. They focus on fighting, both with and without their sabers. They know tactics better than most masters. They claim that war is coming, and don’t seem too sad about it.

(It is a fact to them. War will come. All they can do is meet it. They’ve already done their mourning once.)

They also... well, Shmi tells them things in hidden corners. How to duck their head to hide the hate or fear in their eyes. How to watch for the anger in the tendons of a hand. The laugh of someone who enjoys the pain they’ve caused, not just the adrenaline of a fight. She is free, and so are they, but she has not forgotten how to hide in the shadows until the master’s ire has turned elsewhere. How to be small and quiet and unseen until the danger passes.

A Jedi’s first resort is words. Their second is their saber. But the Jeedai hold their heads high, and the Mandalorians do the same.

“You rely on the Force, and you have your pride,” she tells them, her hands on their own. “But there will come a time when you will not be able to remind people that you are free. You will not be able to say that you are a person, that you deserve the respect of a living sentient. Perhaps it will be a politician who treats everyone like that. Perhaps you will be captured by an enemy. Perhaps you will be undercover. You will not be able to fight, with words or with weapons, and you will have to know how to survive.”

Tatooine does not have peace. Tatooine only has survival.

And while Jedi fight for the survival and peace of the universe, they are refined and composed. Mando’ade fight like warriors of old, and Tatooine slaves fight like cornered, rabid anooba.

The galaxy comes first, but when the chips are down and the Sith come out to play, Soka and Ben do not need refinement, because they know how to toss aside their pride and live.

#Tatooine #Mandalore #Jedi #culture clash #star wars #the clone wars #Anakin Skywalker #Shmi Skywalker #Ahsoka Tano #Obi Wan Kenobi #Jaster Mereel #family #war #Phoenix Posts #Anakin and the Jedi Babies #Phoenix Answers Asks #I have no idea how accurate this is but it's what I'm working with

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syn0vial · 3 years

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How Mandalorian is Boba Fett?

Hey y’all! Your local Star Wars nerd here, looking to weigh in on the discussion surrounding Boba Fett and his relative “Mandalorian-ness,” as questioned by both Din and Bo-katan in The Mandalorian. Thanks to the animosity between Boba and Bo-Katan as shown in the Season 2 Finale, there’ve been a lot of conflicting takes on the question, ranging from, “Bo-Katan is right, he’s not Mandalorian at all!” to “Bo-Katan is dead wrong, Boba Fett’s as Mando as they come!” Though we likely won’t get solid confirmation in the new canon for some time yet, I’d like to offer some insight about how Boba’s relationship to his Mandalorian heritage was portrayed in Star Wars: Legends/the Expanded Universe, which may shed light on what direction his character arc will take in new canon, including The Book of Boba Fett.

To start off, let’s begin with Jango Fett, Boba Fett’s father. In The Mandalorian, Boba states that his father was a foundling who served in the Mandalorian Civil War. This statement seems to canonize Jango’s backstory as it existed in the Expanded Universe: as a young child on Concord Dawn, his parents were killed and his sister enslaved by Death Watch, a Mandalorian splinter group. The young Jango was then found and adopted into a group of True Mandalorians led by Jaster Mereel, who stood in opposition to Death Watch, making Jango a foundling. He would grow up to fight alongside the True Mandalorians against Death Watch, even being named Mand’alor for a short time—until a tragic misunderstanding on the planet Galidraan would lead a contingent of Jedi to wipe out the True Mandalorians with Jango as the sole survivor. Now orphaned for a second time, Jango was handed over by the Jedi to the planetary government, who promptly sold the young man into slavery.

Jango would eventually escape slavery and become the bounty hunter we see in Episode II. Though he would still occasionally face off against remnants of Death Watch, his horrific experiences left him increasingly isolated and paranoid, and thus distant from other Mandalorians and their culture. Even so, he raised Boba with Mandalorian sensibilities of honor, strength, and family, plus aspects of their martial training. If you ask me, Boba Fett was raised Mandalorian—maybe not as rigorously as Din or Bo-Katan were, but in a way many children of immigrants or religious minorities living in diaspora would recognize.

However, one important thing to recognize about Mandalorian culture, at least in the Expanded Universe, is that a child, foundling or otherwise, is not considered a full-fledged adult Mandalorian until the age of 13. At that age, Mandalorian children were expected to take part in a rite of passage known as their verd’goten that would test their skills and honor. Only upon completing this trial would the child be considered an adult and an equal in Mandalorian society.

Except... Boba never got that opportunity. When Boba was ten years old, his father was killed and with him, Boba’s only connection to his heritage. In both Legends and in new canon, Boba spent the intervening years of his childhood as a fugitive and criminal, with no further Mandalorian education. Though the Expanded Universe shows him making some attempt to remain connected to his heritage (such as reading Mandalorian martial texts, joining the Journeyman Protectors, and marking his armor with a mythosaur emblem), he grew increasingly distant from Mandalorian culture and other people in general as he became older. Having never completed his verd’goten, even if he did try to claim Mandalorian status, he may have still been considered at least partially a pretender by other, stricter peers.

This brings us to the adult Boba Fett we see in both the Expanded Universe and in The Mandalorian: a man who makes no explicit claim to being Mandalorian, yet who clings to certain traditions all the same—his armor, his chain code, and the culture’s symbiology. So what does this mean for Boba Fett’s “Mandalorian-ness?” Is he a Mandalorian or not? As you can see, it’s a pretty complex question and it doesn’t have a clear yes-or-no answer. My own take: Boba Fett is more Mandalorian than Bo-Katan gives him credit for. He was raised by a Mandalorian, and Mandalorian culture has strongly influenced his identity, from his notions of honor to the way he dresses to the way he fights. That said, most Mandalorians would be unlikely to accept him as one of their own. He hasn’t completed his verd’goten, does not live with or seek out other Mandalorians, and explicitly refuses to swear loyalty to the Mandalorian cause or homeworld. Fett himself doesn’t try to claim status as a Mandalorian, as, ironically, his cultural Mandalorian background would give him full knowledge that he doesn’t officially “count.”

If you ask me, due to his Mandalorian upbringing and background, Boba has every right to wear Mandalorian armor and symbols, especially as his separation from his culture was not by choice, but enacted by two generations of compounding tragedy and, in Jango’s case, literal genocide. However, hopefully this post will also illuminate some of the reasons other Mandalorians might not accept Boba and why Boba himself might express ambivalence about his heritage.

It should be noted that in the Expanded Universe, Boba does, through (sometimes literal) found family shenanigans, draw closer to his Mandalorian side, even becoming Mand’alor, albeit reluctantly. We can only wait and see whether The Book of Boba Fett and perhaps future Star Wars properties also further develop his shaky status as a Mandalorian.

#boba fett #star wars #the mandalorian #the mandalorian spoilers #mandalorian spoilers #you can tell i care about this subject bc i use correct punctuation and capitalization lol

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johnconstantinesdick · 3 years

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Okay *cracks knuckles, accidentally dislocates fingers* @agentscamander-romanoff and @steel-phoenix took the bait and enabled me by asking me to elaborate on my Children of the Watch origins theory. Which means I am about to go ABSOLUTELY feral.

Apologies to anyone for having incorrect Star Wars lore, I’ve barely consumed canon content and I don’t intend to start now. Also sorry if anyone has already said this! I’ve never seen this particular theory/interpretation and it’s made me go a bit insane.

Warnings: discussion of child abuse, cults, and the aftermath of genocide. I don’t go super in depth on any of it but it’s there. Also, I typed this in the notes app of my phone and autocorrect hasn’t quite submitted to some of these names.

SO. I’m going to break this up into sections. 1. Exploring canon 2. Extrapolations/Connecting the red string 3. What does this MEAN??? 4. Complaining about Bo-Katan.

First off, though, here’s my thesis: Children of the Watch is a “splinter group” made up of the children that Death Watch stole, indoctrinated, and abused. They’re also not a cult (Death Watch is though lmao).

1. Exploring Canon:

Okay, so. Canonically, Death Watch has abducted, tortured, and brainwashed children. Arla Fett is an example of that, having been abducted at the age of 14 after her parents were killed and she was subsequently brainwashed into becoming an assassin for Death Watch. She didn’t even hesitate when she found out her brother was alive! That’s how strong the conditioning was! She was so fucked up from it that she spent YEARS in a mental facility, and she outright begged a Jedi to wipe her memories in exchange for a favor. DEATH WATCH DID THAT. And you CANNOT tell me she was the only one they’ve done this to. PLENTY of fic writers have extrapolated off of this and mentioned it, but it’s important to me that everyone know this shit is absolutely rooted in canon.

Another Death Watch Child Abuse Fun Fact: Dred Priest and Isabet Reau, two of the trainers of the clones, canonically had Death Watch leanings and tried to instill Death Watch beliefs in the clones by FORCING THEM TO FIGHT EACH OTHER IN SECRET BATTLE CIRCLES THAT ENDED UP KILLING SOME OF THE CLONES. THEY WERE CHILDREN AT THE TIME, IF IT WASN’T CLEAR. WHAT THE FUCK. If THAT’S not an example of Death Watch abusing the kids under their care then I don’t know what is. It’s suuper not a stretch for me to think that this wasn’t an unheard of thing in more official Death Watch circles.

Also canonically, Bo-Katan has referred to Din’s covert as “Children of the Watch”, and Din, despite obviously being an important and respected member of his community, doesn’t recognize the name, which implies to me that it’s not a name the covert chose for themselves. Rather, a moniker that was given to them after they splintered off of Death Watch. Since this isn’t an opinion and it’s more just… information, I’ll trust Bo-Katan on this one.

We also know for sure that Din’s covert IS connected to Death Watch in some way, seeing as the flashback sequence very clearly shows Mandalorians in blue and gray beskar’gam, the colors of Death Watch. HOWEVER… the Armorer, who seems to hold a high position of authority in the covert, wears gold and copper beskar’gam. Din wears unpainted (v2) or mismatched colored (v1) beskar’gam (I do grant that his paint color counts less towards this because he’s pretty much one of the only people interacting with the outside world and so colors associated with Death Watch are probably a no go no matter what). Paz Vizsla’s armor is a very dark blue with yellow and cyan details and, oh my fucking god I didn’t even know this but he has a fucking MYTHOSAUR SYMBOL ON ONE OF HIS PAULDRONS. THE FUCK???? THAT’S LITERALLY THE SYMBOL OF THE TRUE MANDALORIANS IM. Ok. Okay. I needed a minute. Like I KNOW that the mythosaur skull is Mandalorian symbol in general but I think it just hits different when a Vizsla is wearing it, you know? Especially because the placement is the same as Jaster Mereel’s???? Literal founder of the True Mandalorian movement????? Excuse me???????

Let’s uh. Let’s get back to armor. I can address that… later. So. Anyway. Armor is super important, and it’s uhhh very telling that the covert doesn’t emulate the Death Watch colorscheme strictly. Like, yeah, there’s gray and light blue in there, if you go through some wiki pages, but they’re not the only colors they use, and the Armorer doesn’t even have either of those colors! And she’s the biggest authority we’ve seen! Very fucking interesting!! Bo-Katan still has her armor painted in Death Watch colors! And yet she’s derisive of Din’s covert! Verrry interesting!

We also know that Din’s covert emphasizes children VERY much, more than Death Watch ever would have, imo. It’s expected for the adult members to provide for the foundlings (and it’s VERY interesting that the kids are seemingly all referred to as foundlings iirc. More on that later.), and even though Paz disagrees with Din working with the empire, he and the other members of the covert immediately and with no hesitation come to Din’s aid for this child that Din hasn’t even claimed as his own—it’s amazing! And I will note that Bo-Katan and her warriors do the same upon their initial meeting with Din—Koska dives into danger with no hesitation as soon as Din says the child is still in danger. We see that this solidarity does come at a price for Bo-Katan, though, while the Armorer sees protecting a foundling as a duty that is completely worth all the trouble it brought.

Fascinating also that Boba was 100% on board to help out Din to save Grogu past what Din or anyone else would have expected of him, while Bo-Katan had to be bribed into coming by the promise of Moff Gideon and the darksaber. And she thinks she’s somehow more Mandalorian than him.

And NOW, going way back in time to the beginnings of the True Mandalorian movement, we know that Jaster Mereel originally authored his Supercommando Codex by looking back through history to the Canons of Honor and the Resol’nare, and he took those ideals and ideas and he modernized them to create a set of moral guidelines to follow. And people loved that shit! Death Watch had to infiltrate the True Mandalorians and then trick the Jedi into slaughtering them just to get rid of them, because Jaster’s charisma and his sexy sexy morals were too strong. (God. I fucking LOVE Jaster Mereel if you couldn’t tell.) Anyway, there’s precedent for Mandalorians looking back to their history to bring forth old ideas, repurposed to a modern context. We also know that, canonically, Din’s covert follow the “old ways” of not sharing names and of never taking their helmets off in front of others.

Moving on.

2. Extrapolations/Connecting the red string:

So if we extrapolate from the fact that Death Watch are, uh, super fucking abusive towards the kids that they stole/their own kids, then we’re left with… this group of kids, who have been mistreated and indoctrinated for a LONG TIME, and possibly don’t have that great an understanding of non-toxic Mandalorian culture. And if they’ve been abducted or rescued, whatever, they might not fit back in with the places they were taken from, or they may not have a place to go back to, or they may not even remember where they’re from originally. It’s some prime angst material! Good stuff.

And if we pull the implication from the names that “Children of the Watch” is a splinter group off of Death Watch, it really does make you think… huh, you know what? These two things may be one in the same. Maybe.

And, like, we know that Jaster Mereel and Din’s covert both looked to Mandalorian history to find pillars for their community’s morals. Jaster did so in the middle of a lot of political turmoil, as a way to say “Hey, we can still be Mandalorians in the ways that matter, but being Mandalorian doesn’t mean being a morally bankrupt conqueror. We can have honor and still wear armor and fight and uphold the Resol’nare.”

And I think Din’s covert did so when they were struggling with unlearning the toxic ideals that had been shoved onto them by Death Watch. I think they had to figure out their own way of being Mandalorian or else they would have crumpled under the pressure. And so they looked back to the old ways and picked out the more extreme interpretation of Cin Vhetin (clean slate) which says that, once you swear the Resol’nare and become a Mandalorian, your past doesn’t matter, it’s what you do now that does. You don’t take off your helmet, and you don’t let others know your name, because those things don’t matter to who you are and what you do. (There’s also the issue of the helmet and name rule being an important defense tactic to protect the covert, seeing as how Mandalorians post-Empire are the survivors of genocide. There’s already a fantastic post on it here)

Related, another Mandalorian saying is “Gar taldin ni jaonyc; gar sa buir, ori'wadaas'la.”, meaning “Nobody cares who your parent was, only the parent you’ll be,” which IMO fits in very nicely with how I’m interpreting Din’s covert. It’s all about your actions and future mattering more than your past. I think that when the covert was splitting off and being built, this would be a huge component of them healing. Because the way they were treated and indoctrinated by Death Watch doesn’t have to affect their future actions. They don’t have to perpetuate the cycle of abuse, they can build a covert and a community around caring for foundlings.

Now, onto the foundlings! I find it very interesting that, whenever the covert’s younglings are mentioned, it’s always as foundlings. I think this implies that there’s a focus on saving and raising children more than there is on sharing blood with them, and I think that the covert would be more inclined towards communal raising than typical family units, if only to keep everyone in check and to protect the children from ever being treated as they were. I also find it VERY interesting that there’s a lot of emphasis put on returning children to their own kind. I don’t think Death Watch would have employed that practice, and I think that’s another example of the covert wanting to make their community a better place for children. I think it’s likely a lot of them didn’t get that choice, and they had to leave their cultures and people behind. And so they want to give that choice to their children.

I think it’s also amazing that, like. They keep finding and raising children instead of deciding they’re too damaged or whatever to have kids. Because it doesn’t matter if they have baggage or trauma when a child needs them. That’s FANTASTIC. I’m losing my MIND. It really doesn’t matter who their parents were to them, just the kind of parents they will be. It’s all about breaking that cycle and deciding to be better and I LOVE THAT.

3. What does this MEAN???:

Well. What this means is that Din’s covert has a very clear set of motivations and structure when it comes to how their covert is run. It’s not a cult; in fact it is specifically a group created by cult survivors who are determined to not do to others what was done to them. The rules may seem weird and strict at first glance, but they have a clear purpose and rationale, and no one is trying to amass power. They’re just… trying to do better, and be better.

(This also means that I’m 99% sure that, with the assistance of time travel, at least half of the covert would be SUPER INTO Jaster Mereel. I like to imagine that Paz had, like, a poster of him on his little sewer bedroom wall. I fully believe he painted that mythosaur skull on his pauldron in honor of a good man who was killed by Paz’s own relatives for standing by his morals and daring to try to reform and rally Mandalorians. I also think it would be funny if, like, Din doesn’t know shit about ANYTHING to do with modern history, but Boba mentions that his grandfather is Jaster Mereel and Din is like “OH I KNOW THAT GUY! Yeah he’s cool, he’s the historical crush of like, my entire covert.” And Boba is like. What.)

It also means that it can be up in the air about whether Din was found by Death Watch before his covert splintered off, or if his covert was still just wearing Death Watch colors when he was found. Fun thing to play around with, but right now I don’t want a solid timeline.

Hmm just thought I should add: while the Armorer does seem to have a position of authority, I don’t think the covert can be structured politically with clans and houses like other Mandalorian groups. Like, clan just means family in this context, and is less a part of hierarchy, and I don’t think they would even recognize houses within the covert? Like they MIGHT decide to call themselves part of House Djarin now that Din is Mand’alor, but before that they weren’t like. House Vizsla with Paz as the leader just because they used to be Death Watch. I don’t vibe with that. This isn’t really super relevant, I just wanted to add it.

4. Complaining about Bo-Katan:

Anyway Bo-Katan is absolutely full of shit and it’s doubly disgusting that she’s standing there in Death Watch armor, seemingly still allied to this fucking cult of imperialism and conquest, and she accuses Din of being in a regressive cult, and she implies that the way he engages with the Resol’nare is wrong and like. Repressed or something. God I hate Bo-Katan. But I love to hate her. She’s horrible but I want her to be included in the list of Din’s friends but not the list of people he’d trust his kid with. I have contradictory Bo-Katan feelings, whatever. The most important thing is that all of her opinions are horrible, like, all the time. And we shouldn’t trust her when she says Din’s part of a cult. Literally why does anyone take that at face value. If we’re taking her word as the authority on Mandalorian issues then I guess Boba and Jango aren’t Mandalorian!!! Seriously.

TLDR; Din’s covert (aka “Children of the Watch”) is made up of survivors of childhood abuse, torture, and brainwashing at the hands of Death Watch, and they’re dedicated to making sure their children don’t go through the same thing. They’re not a cult, but Death Watch sure was! Jaster Mereel is the love of my very aromantic life and Bo-Katan’s opinions can’t be trusted. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

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gizkalord · 4 years

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also i know i’ve been freaking the fuck out about bo-katan, BUT as far as other stuff goes, it was really nice to get confirmation that our theories about Din being raised in what was essentially a fundamentalist sect of Mandalorian society were right! I think I would’ve slightly preferred that their philosophy was precipitated out of a need for covertness related to the purges, but oh well.

It does raise the likely idea of there being multiple Deathwatch factions running around the galaxy at the same time with different goals (as Pre Viszla’s Deathwatch doesn’t seem to resemble Din’s at all—”Children of the Watch” seems to be their actual title as a group, as least by the way that Bo-Katan said it).

It’s an interesting commentary on how fractured Mandalorian society has been for the last few decades, which Bo-Katan emphasized in this episode—it seems likely the show will continue exploring what that means for the survival of Mandalorian culture and Din’s place within that.

#the mandalorian #mando spoilers #din djarin #bo katan kryze

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autumnleaves1991-blog · 4 years

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Day 16: Just Another Day- Din Djarin

Pairing: Din Djarin x Reader

Spoilers for season 2 episode 3. If you haven’t watched it please do because it’s amazing. Thank you for reading!

November Writing Challenge Masterlist

Day 15: Just Walk Away - Ezra (Prospect)

You stood looking out amongst the grey sky and the blue of the ocean water. Din stood at your side with the child in his pram. The wind blows cold and deep through your bones and you shiver. Din looks at you and says nothing, only pulling his cape gently to drape over your shoulders, pulling you closer to his side. His arm resting lightly around your waist. You shiver again, but not from the cold. The cape is warm and rough under your fingers as you drag it more over your shoulders. The child coos as he watches the waves move in a rough dance, each crashing over the other.

“Stay close to me,” you hear Din whisper next to your ear, “I don’t like the way our ‘friend’ has been eyeing you since the Inn.”

You look over his shoulder at the Quarren boatmen. None of them are really paying you any attention and you chalk it up to Din being paranoid. Still, you don’t move from his side.

The Captain comes up on your left holding up some kind of long spear. “You ever see a mamacore eat? ...Quite a site, the child may take an interest.” Din looks down at you before turning his eyes toward the child who does look interested. “Come on over,” the Captain gestures.

You wordlessly follow, still tucked close to Din’s side. “That’s close enough,” he says, keeping a close watch over the child.

The quarren uses the spear to hover a net filled with fish over a large opening in the center of the ship. The metal grate creaks loudly as it moves away and you watch waiting for the creature to appear. The child leans over the side of the pram, eager to see. They press a button and the fish fall into the water, and float to the top.

The water begins to bubble and you watch as tentacles begin to slowly appear up the sides. “She must be hungry, we usually feed her in the early morning. But, we were unable due to being in PORT!” The Captain shouts using the spear to push the pram into the water.

You watch in horror as a huge monster with sharp teeth swallows the pram, “NO!” Din shouts pushing you backwards and jumping into the water. You are thrown into the waiting arms of one of the crew who holds you back.

“Close it!! GO GO GO!” The Captain shouts, and you scream at him to stop. Your voice going hoarse from your cries. The crew members arms are tight around your own, as you thrash trying to get free.

“NO! PLEASE! LET HIM GO!” you scream.

“This beskar is ours! And this little bitch will catch us a high price.” the Captain lets out a chuckle peering down for a sign of the Mandalorian.

Din surfaces and gasps for air against the metal grate hands holding tight to the bars, coughing furiously. You never stop fighting, kicking, punching doing everything you can to get free.

“Drown him! Keep him down!” they shout, using their long spears to push your Mandalorian down into the water. He slips beneath the surface and they just watch, laughing.

“MANDO! NO!” You break free for a moment before a hand grabs your hair pulling you back making you scream in pain.

“Shut her up!” one of them shouts and a disgusting brown cloth is pushed into your mouth and tied tight as two more quarrens hold you down. Your eyesight is blurred from tears, your body sore from fighting, and your heart shattered watching your loved ones killed before you.

The water breaks again as Mando resurfaces, coughing loudly and they shove their spears at him again. The sounds of metal hitting beskar and the thrashing of the water is drowned out as the blood pounds in your ear. You can feel the fabric tighten bruising around your wrists as you're restrained.

“He didn’t sink!”

“Finish him!”

“Keep him down!”

You never stop thrashing against your captors, screaming through the gag for Din and the child.

Whoosh

Your eyes break from the water to look up as three mandalorians descend upon the ship. Dispatching with the quarrens quickly. The sounds of gunfire, grunts, and metal slicing through flesh. Your eyes are frantic as you crawl on your knees to the grate, screaming for Din. The sound of the grate slowly being pulled back has you leaning over the side precariously. Desperately searching for Din and the child.

“Take my hand,” one of the others says and you watch with bated breath as Din is pulled from the water. You sob as he is gently lowered to a crate.

He coughs, the water expelling from his lungs, “There's...a creature. It has the child!”

“On it,” one shouts, diving back into the water.

The third Mandalorian comes to your side using a large knife to cut through your bindings, you rip the gag from your mouth and stand on shaky legs, running over to Din. “The child,” he begs, “Help the child.”

“Don’t worry brother, we’ve got this,” The mandalorian tells him, putting a hand on his shoulder.

When he’s within reach you drop to your knees before him checking him over as best you can. His gloved hand comes to rest on your arm pulling you to his side silently. When you're satisfied he’s okay, you watch with bated breath for any sign of the Child.

There is a flash of light beneath the water, and you hear the roar of the creature below. The Mandalorian breaks through the surface of the water holding a crushed pram in their hands. You gasp before they land gently placing the pram on the ground and ripping away the top. Handing the Child to Din carefully.

You look down at the child held preciously in his left arm as he tightens his grip around you. Your clan of three reunited. His breath still comes out in pants as he tries to return his breathing to normal. “I have been searching for others of our kind,” he looks before the three mandalorians, “I’ve been quested to deliver this child...I was hoping that y- '' His voice cuts off as the three remove their helmets.

His grip on you loosens as he places the child in your arms and pushes you both behind him. “Where did you get that armor?” his tone is threatening.

“This armor has been in my family for three generations,” the woman asks confused.

“You do not cover your face. You are not mandalorian.”

The others look between each other before the man speaks up, “He’s one of them.”

“Dank farrick,” she looks at him before going back to Din, “I am Bo-Katan of Clan Kryze. I was born on Mandalore and fought in the purge. I am the last of my line. And you...you are a child of the watch.”

“The watch?” he whispers.

“Children of the watch are a group of religious zealots who broke away from Mandalorian society. Their goal was to re-establish the ancient way.” She looks between you and the child, half hidden behind the broad shoulders of Din.

Din takes a half a step closer and you hold your breath waiting for him to make a move, “There is only one way. The way of the Mandalore,” he turns toward you and reaches for you and the child, wrapping his cloak around you and picking you up bridal style, shooting off into the air.

You land softly onto the dock and he doesn’t move to lower you. You snuggle closer to him and press your face into his neck breathing deeply. The faint explosion disturbs the peace and you look across the water to see the ship burst into flames. Three lines of smoke from the mandalorians leave the atmosphere.

Din turns from the scene walking towards the crest. The shipyard is empty as you walk aboard. It doesn’t look any better than when you left it and Din sighs before gently lowering you to the ground. He takes the child from your arms and presses his helmet to his little green head, the child puts his hands gently on the helmet returning the embrace. Din slowly pulls him back and places him in the co-pilot's chair, pulling a small blanket over his body and he falls asleep almost instantly, exhausted from the ordeal.

You struggle with what to say as the emotions from the day overcome you. You shake lightly before collapsing to the ground. Dins arms are quick to move around you holding you tightly to his beskar covered chest. “I...I could have lost you both today,” you sob, grabbing tightly to him.

“But, you didn’t mesh’la we’re alright.” His touch grounds you and you hold him tightly, he lets out a small chuckle, “It was just another day…”

“How can you say that? The child was eaten, you almost drowned! They were going to sell me…”

“What?” his voice comes out low and deadly.

“The quarren...they said they could get a fair price for me...they wanted to sell me Din,” you tell him quietly.

His arm tightens around your waist before he is pulling away. You miss the warmth immediately and silent tears stream down your face. You watch as he carefully removes his gloves, each piece of armor joining him until he is left only in his undershirt and pants. His clothes are still dripping wet.

“Din…you need to change clothes, you’ll catch a cold,” you mindlessly begin pulling on the fabric.

“I’m alright…” he gently holds your wrist, “Come, we both could use some sleep.”

You look around the cockpit and make your way to the passenger seat when the hand on your wrist tightens, you freeze. Your eyes slowly lift to meet the black visor, “Din…”

“Lay with me,” his voice is quiet and low. You shiver at the sound before nodding wordlessly. Moving towards him as he lowers himself with a small grunt into the pilots chair. He pulls your hips to him and you straddle his waist, laying your head on his chest. He lowers the chair back as far as it will go and draws patterns across your back. You feel his heart pound in your ear. The warmth, his hands guiding over your back, and his heartbeat lures you off to sleep.

Before the darkness overcomes you hear a whisper against your ear, almost so quiet you don’t hear, “rest well cyare, I’ll always protect you.”

#November writing challenge #Day 16 #the mandalorian #din djarin #din djarin x reader #The child #Season 2 Spoilers #Pedro Pascal

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zelenacat · 3 years

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When We Were Young- An Obitine Story- Chapter 25

Master Secura was not pleased to hear about the wedding.

“It hasn’t been announced yet,” Satine stated, “and I have to talk it over with my advisors.”

“But you accepted.” Ahsoka pointed out.

“I had to, he,” Satine paused, “knows family secrets.”

Obi-Wan lowered his head.

“You have a child,” Aayla Secura realized, “and Count Dooku knows.”

The Duchess turned to Obi-Wan and placed a hand on his leg, he took it off, instead choosing to hold her hand on the table.

“We can help you protect them.”

“The Council won’t be pleased however,” Satine pointed out, “that’s why they were a secret.”

“They?”

“The Duke of Sundari,” Obi-Wan counted on his fingers, “Padawan Tyra, Tristan Wren, Mara Supreis, and the two new foundlings Jinn and Lyra.”

Master Secura’s eyes went wide, “That is many transgressions.”

“Twins three times.” Satine pointed out.

“That doesn’t matter,” Aayla sighed, “come, Master Kenobi, we must update the Council. Ahsoka, keep looking.”

The Padawan nodded and continued, Satine scanned the room.

“I can’t believe you’re actually engaged to him.” Ahsoka muttered, searching corners.

“Not officially,” the Duchess defended, opening drawers, “my advisors don’t know.”

“But-”

“We decided we were going to continue the courtship.” Satine confessed.

“Ew.”

When they found nothing, Satine returned to her personal parlor where her children were waiting.

“You’re all so quiet.” Satine observed.

“Marrying Count Dooku?” Mara questioned.

“Not officially,” Ahsoka jumped in, “your mother said they agreed to an extended courtship.”

“That’s still gross.” Tyra admitted.

“And that kiss?” Korkie asked, frowning.

“I know,” Tristan nodded, “and I literally carried his laundry for him.”

Ahsoka shivered.

“I’m sorry you had to find out like that, children,” Satine sighed, sinking into a chair, “but it really happened too quickly.”

“I’m sorry, Lady Mother,” Mara smiled sadly, “I know you don’t want to marry him.”

“I don’t.” the Duchess agreed.

The room grew silent.

“Come children,” Satine stood, “it’s bedtime.”

Tyra shoved Ahsoka’s shoulder, “That includes you too.”

In the hallway, the group ran into the Jedi Masters. Satine made note of Obi-Wan’s stiffness, he was tired and embarrassed.

“We leave in the morning, Ahsoka,” Master Secura announced, “Master Kenobi and Padawan Tyra will be returning to Coruscant.”

Tyra was clearly disappointed, Obi-Wan put a hand to his head.

“Get rest, children,” Satine turned to her children, “Especially you, Ahsoka, you have a long day ahead of you.”

Mara kissed her mother’s cheek, “Goodnight, Lady Mother.”

Tyra did the same and looped her arm through Mara’s.

“Goodnight, Master Jedis.”

The girls turned.

“Tyra?” Obi-Wan spoke up.

Tyra turned, swinging Mara around as well. A mutual understanding seemed to pass between the two.

“Goodnight, Father.”

Tristan kissed the Duchess’ cheek, then gave a bow to Master Secura, winking at his father as he came up.

“Go on now,” Obi-Wan gestured, “listen to your mother.”

Ahsoka told her Momdalore to sleep well, then moved towards Master Secura.

“Peaceful sleep be upon you, Duchess.” the Jedi stated.

Satine smiled tensely, she knew the Jedi Council would not be pleased.

“Dad,” Korkie stepped forward and held out his hand, “I’m glad you’re a part of our family.”

Obi-Wan’s face melted and he placed his hands on Korkie’s shoulders.

“May I hug you?”

“Of course, Father.”

Satine nearly cried at the sight.

“Sleep well, son of mine,” Obi-Wan ruffled Korkie’s hair, “now go, I must speak with your mother.”

Korkie kissed Satine’s cheek before leaving his parents. Then it was just Satine and Obi-Wan in the hallway.

“I know you’re ashamed,” the Duchess stepped forward, “your fellow council members must not be pleased.”

Obi-Wan sighed.

“Ben,” Satine placed a hand on her Jedi’s cheek, “you can stay with me.”

“I-”

“It’s not a crime, Ben,” Satine continued with a swallow, “Jedi need love too.”

“Yes,” Obi-Wan sighed, “I suppose that’s true.”

Satine took her Jedi’s hands and led him to her room.

“This is Jaym and Gorg,” the Duchess gestured, “they know.”

Obi-Wan shook both their hands, “Thank you for keeping my Satine safe.”

“Of course, Master Jedi.” Jaym responded.

“The Duchess is a gift to us all.” Gorg agreed.

Obi-Wan fixed Satine with a warm gaze, “Yes, she is.”

The Duchess pulled Obi-Wan inside and shut the door.

“Will you help me with this, Ben?” Satine asked, trying to unbutton her dress.

The Jedi clicked his tongue when he saw the girdle Satine was wearing.

“This thing is monstrous.” he frowned.

The Duchess huffed, “Try wearing it.”

Satine sighed when the pressure released from her stomach, Obi-Wan rested a hand on the large shell.

“I still can’t believe we have two more.”

“It was hard,” Satine agreed, turning to face him, “but now everything is alright.”

“Why's that?”

The Duchess grinned, “You’re here.”

Obi-Wan wrapped his arms around Satine, who yawned and placed her head on his shoulder.

“Let’s get you some sleep.” Obi-Wan decided, pulling his Duchess towards the mattress.

Satine sat down while her Jedi removed her shoes and socks.

“My shining Jedi Knight.” she muttered.

Obi-Wan smiled sadly, ”Your feet are still swollen.”

“Hera says that will end soon.”

“Hera?”

“The nurse,” Satine smiled, “you’ll meet her tomorrow.”

“I’d like that.”

The Duchess swung her legs over and pulled up the covers.

“Your shift?” Obi-Wan asked.

“No,” Satine yawned, “tired.”

After a few seconds of rusting fabric, Obi-Wan joined Satine.

“This is all I ever wanted,” he mused, wrapping an arm around her.

“This is more than my happiest dreams.” Satine smiled, closing her eyes.

The morning was not as sweet. Obi-Wan was already up and meditating, so there was no morning cuddle time.

“Oh, I’m sorry,” Obi-Wan paused, opening his eyes, “I’ll come back if you want.”

“Can all of you read thoughts?” Satine sighed, staring up at the ceiling.

“No, why?”

“Tyra and the Count can.”

Satine could feel Obi-Wan’s displeasure.

“Yes, he read my mind, if it wasn’t for Tyra, I would’ve kicked him out of the palace.”

Rolling over, Satine faced her Jedi.

“I don’t like you having to pretend that you’re marrying.”

Satine sighed, “He knows about the kids, and he read my mind when I was thinking of you.”

Obi-Wan frowned, “Mean.”

Satine sat up, then flinched.

“What?”

The Duchess actually smiled, “Give me a minute.”

Obi-Wan didn’t question her that much when she exited the fresher, only raising an eyebrow.

“Have you ever given birth, Ben?”

“Right, sorry.”

Satine laughed.

A knock bounced off the door, “Satine?”

“Yes, Khaami?”

“I’m here to help you dress.” Khaami announced.

“Well, come in.”

Khaami entered, eyes searching for Obi-Wan. When she saw him, she raised an eyebrow at her Duchess.

“No, Khaami,” Satine shook her head, “you won’t be attending any more births.”

The Jedi snorted. The lady smiled, relieved, and marched over to Satine’s closet.

“I guess I should go.” Obi-Wan pouted.

Satine kissed her Jedi, “Poor Ben, tell our friends I say hello.”

“I will.”

After a moment, the Duchess added, “And make sure Tyra Satine doesn’t get up to any obscene antics.”

Mirth glowed in Obi-Wan’s eyes, “That’ll be a challenge.”

Satine watched as her knight in shining armor left, Khaami had to call her name three times to get her attention.

“Yes?”

“Black.”

“Black? I hate black!”

Khaami sighed, “We want to give the council the impression that you’re sad about this engagement.”

Satine bid goodbye to the Jedi before heading into the Ruling Council Chamber, Aayla had winked at her, they’d shared a moment.

“Duchess Satine?”

She frowned, reality set back in.

Once everyone was gathered, Satine took a breath, “The Count and I have agreed we will marry eventually.”

Silence, then outrage.

“Your Grace-”

“Duchess!”

“Please, Your Grace, reconsider-”

Satine raised her hand, the room grew quiet.

“It will be a long courtship,” the Duchess continued, “but there is more you should be aware of.”

If the Ruling Council had been dumbfounded before Satine explained the ties to the Sith the Ancient Mandalorians had, and their current plan with the Jedi, they were certainly shocked now.

“Your Grace,” Countess Bralor sighed, “This is quite the mess.”

“And are you sure your sister will assist in the capture of the Count?” asked Governor Eldar.

“Death Watch does not like the Count,” Satine assured, “and the Jedi will gladly take him.”

In the next week, Satine had met with the Jedi Council (who sometimes struggled to address her properly), made contact with Count Dooku for a second courtship visit, and informed Bo-Katan of their new situation. She was exhausted.

Count Dooku returned a month later, and after much consolation from Padme, Satine felt brave enough to face him again. The Count’s arrival was less grand, the majority of the court couldn’t make it for this visit, yet he still chose to drive through the airways of Sundari.

“My popularity here is increasing,” he boasted to Satine on their walk, “it will be good when we announce the wedding.”

“I worry about the extremists though.” Satine admitted, setting a ploy.

“What, Death Watch?”

The Duchess nodded.

“I have friends who will deal with that.”

This was news to Satine, but she tried not to show it.

“More criminals I presume?” she asked.

The Count smirked, “Eager to know, are you?”

“They do want me dead.” Satine offered.

Dooku shook his head, “They won’t kill you.”

The Duchess frowned, “How do you know?”

The Count placed Satine’s hand on his arm, “Because you’re under my protection.”

“That guarantees nothing.” the Duchess countered, slightly shocked.

Dooku raised an eyebrow, “We’re on our way to announce our engagement.”

“Ah, right,” Satine nodded, “they happen not to like you either.”

“I may have a spy in Death Watch.”

Despite herself, Satine grinned, “That’s useful information.”

The Duchess was still smiling when she and the Count stepped out onto the stage for their press conference. The whispers hushed as Dooku helped Satine into her seat. Soon after Satine’s ladies situated themselves behind her, and the Prime Minister took to the podium.

“The palace is happy to announce today, that the Duchess is engaged to Count Dooku, Head of the Seperatist Alliance and Speaker of the Most High Seperatist Senate.”

Silence. Then a burst of questions all at once.

“Your Grace-”

“Duchess-”

“Your Excellency-”

“Count Dooku-”

Satine raised her hand, but it still took a few seconds for the press to quiet down.

“The Count and I have made our decision with what is best for both our systems. If you have any questions, please ask them politely.”

Some of the questions were general, how they thought this would help both systems, did they have any plans for initiatives, would Mandalore officially join the war?

“Not directly or immediately,” Satine answered before Dooku could, “our peaceful way of life will require some integration of aggression before we are ready for war.”

The rest of the questions were all about wedding plans at Satine’s dress.

“I will have to consult with my seamstresses,” Satine announced after much prodding, “but nothing shall be announced until the day of the ceremony.”

“When will the ceremony be?” a journalist shouted.

“There is still much planning that must be done,” Count Dooku jumped in, “but of course we shall be respectful of traditional holidays.”

Satine turned to the Count, she hadn’t been aware that he knew of Queen Mara’s birthday celebration coming up. Dooku gave her a small smile. A camera flashed.

“Thank you,” the Prime Minister announced, Satine blinked, “the palace press secretary will answer any other questions.”

The Count helped Satine up and led her from the room, her ladies behind her.

“We did well.”

“We did.” Satine agreed.

“I think I should take some time to tour Sundari and meet the local leaders.” Dooku suggested.

“That sounds beneficial,” the Duchess agreed, “I’ll speak with my advisors about that.”

At dinner that evening, Dooku sat on Satine’s left, Korkie on her right. They glanced att each other the entire night, but neither spoke to the other directly. It was exhausting just being around them. It had been decided that the Count would take a tour of Sundari in the morning, so he excused himself early.

“Ugh,” Korkie sighed when Dooku left the room, “I thought he’d never leave.”

“Korkie-”

“Walk with me, Lady Mother,” Korkie whispered, “after dinner, there’s news.”

So they did, sitting in the garden, the Duke showed something to Satine that made her shriek.

“What? How?”

“Lady Mother,” Korkie put a hand on Satine’s shoulder, “don't worry.”

“Fire, Korkyrach,” Satine shook, eyes wide, “you can make fire with your hands.”

“It’s called force fire,” Korkie explained, “Tyra and Mara have been helping me.”

Satine began to weep.

“It’s alright, Lady Mother,” the Duke hugged his mother, “it only happens sometimes, and I’m learning to control it.”

“Be careful around the Count,” Satine wiped her eyes on her son’s shoulder, “I worry so much for you all.”

“It’s alright,” Korkie stated, “Tyra’s with Father on Coruscant.”

“And Tristan?”

“He called me after the announcement,” Korkie admitted, “he was pissed, but I talked him down, he’s alright otherwise.”

“Mara?”

“Left for a Seperatist world a few days ago,” the Duke informed his mother, “they’re gathering information.”

Satine sighed.

“Let’s get you upstairs, Lady Mother.” Korkie decided.

“Yes.” the Duchess agreed.

Satine was about to crawl into bed when her comm went off. She grabbed it, turned down the volume, and hid under the covers before answering.

“Hi, Ben.”

“This scares me, Satine.” Obi-Wan admitted.

“Ben-”

“And the way you looked at him,” the Jedi spat, “what was that?

“What was what?” Satine asked.

Obi-Wan sent her a photo from the press conference.

“Ben-”

“You look like you care about him, Satine.”

The Duchess frowned, “No, I don’t.”

“But that's what it looks like,”the Jedi stressed.

“Obi-Wan,” Satine said sternly, “don’t get any premonitions in your head that I love someone else, I love you.”

Obi-Wan’s mouth hung open for a second, then he smiled.

“Ben, it’s been what,” the Duchess counted, “about two months since our last children were born?”

“They’re doing great, Satine,” Obi-Wan grinned, “they smiled at me today.”

“Tell me about it,” tears filled the Duchess’ eyes, “I’ve missed all my children’s first smiles.”

“They were beautiful,” the Jedi’s eyes fogged, “Jinn reached up at me and Lyra giggled.”

Satine let a little sob escape her.

“Darling-”

“I miss you,” Satine confessed, “and I miss them.”

“I know.” Obi-Wan sighed.

Satine went to bed late that night and woke up just before lunch, long after the Count had embarked on this tour.

“Why’d you let me sleep?” Satine mumbled.

“Because,” Khaami pulled up her lady, “news from the Jedi has come.”

“And Dooku can’t well know we’re in league with his enemies.” Parna added.

Satine sighed and rubbed her eyes.

“You can do this, Duchess.” Khaami assured.

After she was dressed, in her usual purple and navy ensemble, Satine went o a private conference room with her Prime Minister, who was just turning on the communication device. Soon, a collection of blue figures appeared before Satine.

“Duchess,” Master Windu frowned, clearly upset to see her, “how wonderful to see you.”

Satine smiled, “Thank you, Master Jedi, I hear there is news?”

“News, yes,” Master Yoda began, “bad news, it is.”

Satine’s eyebrows rose.

“There is a Sith Temple on Concordia,” Master Shaak Ti stated, “hidden below ground, our sources say that the Death Watch are aware of this as well.”

“The Count informed me that he has a spy in Death Watch.” Satine announced.

“Told you this, did he?” asked Master Yoda.

“Yes.”

“And you believe him?” questioned Master Ti.

Satine opened her mouth, closed it, and opened it again.

“I made a joke that I would be dead before the wedding at Death Watch’s hands, he said I didn’t worry because of his spy.”

Master Yoda nodded, “Interesting, that is.”

“How is your sister?” Master Mundi asked.

“Angry, but her wife feeds that fire.”

“Ah yes,” Master Windu frowned, “Asajj Ventress.”

Satine glanced quickly at Obi-Wan, his face was pensive.

“I suggest, Your Grace,” Master Mundi began, “that you destroy the Sith Temple on Concordia before the Count visits it.”

Satine nodded, “Thank you, Master Jedi.”

“A plan, you have?” Master Yoda smiled.

“Yes.”

“Wish you the best of luck, Duchess.” said Master Windu, frowning a slight smile.

“Thank you.”

When the comm ended, Prime Minister Djarin gave the Duchess the side eye.

“Your plan?”

“Recent developments have proved beneficial,” Satine grinned, “and I have some friends.”

Satine met Tristan and Korkie for lunch that day, and as she sipped her tea and listened to her sons’ accomplishments, the plan took shape.

“Lady Mother,” Tristan sighed, “you have that look on your face.”

“What look?”

“You’re planning something,” Korkie agreed, sitting back, “and it involves us.”

Satine leaned forward.

“Tristan, what new skill have you learned?”

Her second son understood immediately, “Telekinesis, have you not noticed the floating wine bottles?”

Satine frowned, Tristan and Korkie burst out laughing.

The Duchess sighed, “Such immature pranks prove you aren’t ready for this mission.”

“A mission?” Korkie’s eyes lit up.

Satine rested her chin on her hands, “There’s an underground Sith Temple on Concordia, it needs to be destroyed.”

“Ooh.”

“Sweet.”

“I want you boys, Mara, and her Master to do the destroying.”

Tristan grinned.

“But how do we get around the Count?” Korkie asked.

“Secrecy.” Satine answered.

The boys then went back to school, knowing they’d be leaving on the weekend, and Satine returned to the palace, where the Count was waiting.

“How was lunch with your sons?” he whispered.

The Duchess hesitated.

“Teenage boys perplex me.”

Dooku actually laughed, “Perhaps a step-father is a beneficial addition to the family, then?”

Satine gave the Count a side eye, “You have quite the high opinion of yourself.”

“I most certainly do.”

“So tell me,” Satine began walking towards the gardens, “how did the public perceive you?”

“Well for the most part,” Dooku explained, “lots of stares and whispers.”

“May I suggest charity efforts?” the Duchess grinned.

“Charity,” the Count asked, “like helping the poor?”

“Yes, Dooku,” Satine grinned, “like helping the poor.”

A moment of silence leaked in and the Duchess turned to face her fiance.

“Call me Kal.”

“What?”

“My name is Kal,” the Count repeated, “as we’re engaged you should know my name.”

The Duchess repeated the name, it sounded strange in her mouth.

“Surprised, Satine?”

The Duchess winced, “Don’t call me that.”

“How about Tina, then?”

Satine frowned, “Even more revolting.”

“Then what should I call you?” the Count asked.

“Your Grace.” Satine decided firmly.

The Count bowed.

“If you would please excuse me, Your Grace, I must speak with my Master.”

The Duchess went cold and she hated how her voice quivered.

“You’re excused.”

Dooku turned and began to walk away.

“Kal?”

The Count froze, but he didn’t turn back to Satine.

“Who is your Master?”

The Duchess could hear the Count’s smile in his reply.

“You will never need to know that.”

Satine waited until Count Dooku was out of earshot, then ran to her room, bumping into Jaym and Parna on the way,

“Spy on the Count,” Satine ordered, “he’s talking to his Master.”

“Call Padme,” she whispered into her comm, “oh, please pick up.”

“Satine, I-”

“Did you know Dooku’s first name was Kal?”

A moment of silence, then the Senator excused herself from the room.

“What?”

“He told me to call him by his name, and I said that he couldn’t call me by mine.”

“Satine, are you okay?”

“No,” the Duchess whined, “we might actually have to marry!”

Padme sighed.

“What?”

“You should’ve been prepared for this.”

“I’m also sending my children to destroy an underground Sith Temple on Concordia that’s over a millenia old.”

“Satine,” Padme frowned, “you need to rest.”

“Dooku is calling his Master right now,” Satine pouted, “from my palace!”

The Senator’s jaw dropped.

Satine lowered her voice, “Of course, I have spies in action, Padme.”

“Dear God,” the Senator mumbled, “when did our lives get like this?”

“Master Windu did not seem pleased to know that Ben and I have children.” Satine confessed.

Padme snorted, “When he found out Anakin and I were married he just left the room.”

Satine giggled.

“Good luck with everything, call me if you need help.”

“I will, Padme, thank you.”

#obitine #satine kryze #satine x obiwan #Duchess Satine #korkie kenobi #korkie kryze #obiwan #obi wan x satine #obi wan kenobi

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agoddamn · 3 years

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Oh, it's that little Bonteri shit again. Wonder if we're at any time gonna talk about his mom's support for Care Bear genocide or the hilarity of her whining about her husband killed by clones (people with no rights)?

Star Wars is doing that funny thing again where we are TECHNICALLY portraying a democracy but it populates it with characters that run on dynastic inheritance; this Bonteri brat is LITERALLY just Some Fuckin Kid to a bunch of politicians. His mom being a politician is completely irrelevant to his qualifications to be here. But, y'know, The Drama

"We can't just let them take him! He'll be killed!" well maybe if you didn't let RANDOM FUCKING CHILDREN into critical negotiations...

Hang on, why did the droids drag him away anyway? This is being hosted on Mandalore BECAUSE it's neutral. That means that Mandalore's security is supposed to be enforcing the rules.

Am I gonna have to put up with comphet again?

Wait, he ACTUALLY has the title of senator? Even though he's like fourteen? How--ah, what the fuck ever

I do like how Ahsoka has these consistent little...gremlin animations

The backs of these purple senate guards are identical to clone trooper backs (rectangular pack with two lines and a circle on it, cylinder in small of back) because mold reuse is the true king of design

This is legit How You Can Tell how much a series's sense of design leans towards the toyetic; characters designed around being able to share the same mold for major body parts. You also see this a lot in Kamen Rider and Super Sentai, where goons will tend to have a copied chestpiece with unique helmet.

Is this sword logo on the chairs Mandalore's? This ship doesn't look all that art deco, and it was being run by R2, and the senate guards were outside it

This kid is not very smart huh

"There is another option" is it terrorism?

"Like [the Republic] helped my mother?!" you do remember that your mother was not part of the Republic and killed by DOOKU without any chance for the Republic to do anything, right...?

Like, this is a perfectly normal way to process grief but I'd appreciate it if someone pointed out how irrational it is

"a group who are noble and allied with my cause" ah yes, terrorism

How much longer til this little shit dies

[fake shock] Oh my goodness, terrorists!

Ahsoka's winter hood with the montral pockets and little puffballs is really fucking cute

There's often an implication/outright statement in fic that Mandalorian armor is androgynous but that is definitely not the case with what I'm looking at

There's not a whole lotta consistency with Mandalorian names, is there? "Satine" and "Bo-Katan" don't sound like they came from the same planet

Why do I have to deal with a fake relationship plot with Ahsoka and some walking, talking spoiled milk rather than literally anyone fucking else

.............so Bo-Katan's a lesbian

>Mandalorians are bullying droids and this is supposed to be ominous regardless of the fact that our heroes bully droids 24/7

WHATEVER

Death Watch doesn't recognize Ahsoka? Wasn't she pretty publicly involved in ruining their plans?

"Tell your woman to leave us" oh these guys sound VERY egalitarian and not sexist at ALL

Love how these guys are bragging about having Dooku's location as if that information isn't several hours outdated by now and Dooku isn't a guy who moves around a lot

"We are battle droids no longer. Now we are slaves." NOW? Oh, whatever

These guys look vaguely Mongolian? The girl's facial decos made me think Mirialan for a second, but I think they're new. In a very weird cultural appropriation boomerang, this dude's hat looks like Amidala's

"You have taken our women" ...oh, I was not expecting the rape implications to be that, uh, not-implied

So traditionalist Mandos are DEFINITELY pretty fucking misogynist

>there's not even an animation of Ahsoka taking her coat off, it just vanishes between frames

Goddamn, this really does drag when everything that's going to happen is so blatantly choreographed

I'm tired of Deus Ex Artoo

What kind of shitty terrorists don't even bother to take a ship that was parked on their front lawn?

"You know I can't go with you" LITERALLY why??? He hasn't committed any crimes by Republic standards. He's got valuable info on a terrorist group. He has similar goals to Ahsoka and he's just proven himself quite fucking incompetent on his own.

"We could try to change things from the inside" LITERALLY WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?? Dooku is a SITH, there is no "changing from the inside" with that shit!

"We make a pretty good team, don't we?" No

"We'll see each other again" FUCK

#boots watches tcw

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likethecities · 3 years

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In “Defense” of Bo-Katan in Mandalorian S2

(or, why Bo’s refusal to accept Boba as Mandalorian in 2x08, after Din did accept it in 2x06, is internally consistent with her character and view of Mandalore, and is not only because she’s a self-serving ass*)

*(although she is both of those things)

NOTE: This is a discussion of why her view of Boba is logical for her character and where I hope/think it will go in S3 and the concept of “Mandalorian”. It is NOT an endorsement for her behavior.

This is ONLY based in current, Disney canon, not Legends. In Legends, Jango was the leader of Mandalore for several years if not decades. However! that line conflicts with TCW. So we’re using the old rule of “if it conflicts, current canon wins” and tossing it out. If it gets recanonized, we can come back to it.

Okay first! Let’s break down the major Mandalorian characters/factions in the Mandalorian.

Din Djarin/Children of the Watch

Bo-Katan Kryze/Nite Owls

Boba and Jango Fett

What do they have in common? All three groups place a lot of practical and symbolic/ancestral value on their beskar armor. Bo and Din also place a lot of importance on the value of the Way, although with different interpretations. Lastly, Bo specifically cares about Mandalore as a place. Unsurprisingly, they all have different interpretations of what it means to be Mandalorian.

Let’s start with Din and the Children of the Watch (CotW). Here’s what we know about their definition of Mandalorian:

high cultural and symbolic value on Mandalorian armor

foundlings/non-Mandalorian children can be raised Mandalorian

very strict interpretation of the Way/Creed

non-Mandalorians cannot wear Mandalorian armor

As a final note, they don’t appear to have much actual beskar. Most of their armor, though forged in Mandalorian style, isn’t made of beskar, but other metals instead. It’s a big deal when Din rolls up with enough beskar to forge a whole suit; that kind of windfall doesn’t just happen.

So when S2 rolls around and Din runs into people wearing Mandalorian armor who don’t follow the Way as he knows it, he assumes they aren’t Mandalorian, with the following results:

Cobb (2x01): admits to not being Mandalorian when Din challenges him, offers to return armor to Din (standing in as a representative of all Mandalorians) once Din helps him. Din agrees, helps, and then leaves with the armor.

Bo-Katan/Nite Owls (2x03): claim a different interpretation of the Way, declare ownership over their armor through family heritage. Din recognizes their claim.

Boba (2x06): identifies himself as the rightful owner of the armor, refuses to claim clan ties or the Creed. Din (eventually) recognizes his claim.

Once Din has accepted that other Mandalorians don’t have the same interpretation of the Way that he does, he’s willing to accept proof of ownership as enough. Likely, this is because the CotW don’t have much beskar, and so they recognize prior claims much more strictly. For Din, at least, owning the beskar is enough to drop the argument about being Mandalorian or not. Now let’s move to Bo and her supporters. Here’s what we know about them:

high cultural and symbolic value on Mandalorian armor: status symbol, but not required by all members

looser interpretation of the Way

high value on clan/community membership, or connection to Mandalore as a planet

non-Mandalorians cannot (or at least shouldn’t) wear Mandalorian armor

We know from SW Rebels and TCW that Bo, her followers, and most of the Mandalore-based people that you do not have to wear armor to be Mandalorian. Sabine’s father is an artist and is never seen fighting or wearing armor, but no one questions that he’s Mandalorian. The armor and Creed alone aren’t a requirement.

How else do we know this? Because Bo spent several seasons backing Pre Viszla and the darksaber for the Mandalorian throne, but when Viszla lost the darksaber - and his head - to Maul, Bo objected. Maul wasn’t Mandalorian; he didn’t care about the place, the community, the culture, or the Way. So Bo turned to Satine, the leader that she had just deposed, as a more “Mandalorian” challenger. Satine still has her House Kryze ties and close attachment to Mandalore as a place; that was enough to make her Mandalorian and a better choice than Maul, even though she’d nearly completely broken with old Mandalorian ways.

(And, we should note, that some Mandalorians did switch their allegiance to Maul after this, because they recognized the right of the darksaber over any community or clan ties. They’re also still Mandalorian.)

So when Bo and her team meet Din, they recognize Din as Mandalorian. He’s part of a Mandalorian offshoot sect: that’s his clan/community. They think his rules are weird and antiquated*, but they recognize them as related to the Way as they know it.

*yes, Bo is a jerk about this, because Bo is a jerk about a lot of things. She does accept it, though, which is the important part for this discussion.

Okay, now let’s turn to Boba.

Boba never explicitly claims to be Mandalorian, with Din in 2x06 or in the bar 2x08. He says that Jango was a Mandalorian foundling, but despite Din giving him multiple opportunities to claim to be Mandalorian, Boba rebuffs every single one. He doesn’t have any clan or community ties, and he doesn’t care about the planet; he’s actively derisive about Bo’s goal to retake it. He doesn’t appear to follow any parts of the Way. Frankly, Boba doesn’t seem to even want to be Mandalorian, he just puts up with being associated with them because of the armor. He certainly doesn’t care who considers themselves Mandalorian or why. The only things that Boba cares about are that a) his ownership of his armor is acknowledged, and b) he’s recognized as Jango Fett’s son. That’s it.

Again, for Din, that’s enough. Boba can prove that the armor is his and he can prove that Jango obtained it properly (ie, as a Mandalorian foundling). Conflict solved, everyone move on.

For Bo and her followers, that’s not enough. The armor isn’t the sole thing that marks you as Mandalorian, and Boba (and Jango after becoming a bounty hunter, apparently for much of his adult life) has none of the clan/community ties that are part of her definition and no attachment to the planet or culture of Mandalore. Ergo, he’s not Mandalorian, and rightfully-obtained armor or not, him wearing it is against their culture. And yes, Bo is being racist (something -ist, at least) when she calls Jango his “donor”, but she also has a point. There are millions of Jango Fett clones in the galaxy, and none of them were raised in Mandalorian culture or have any connection to Mandalore except DNA. Rewatching the bar scene, she doesn’t seem to have any idea who Boba is until she recognizes his voice and identifies him as a clone. Why should he or any clone deserve to wear Mandalorian armor, especially when they don’t participate in Mandalorian culture?

(the answer, obviously, is because Jango raised Boba as his son and heir and chose to pass down his armor/ship accordingly. But Bo has no reason to know this and she wouldn’t consider him Mandalorian either way, so there’s no point in Boba proving his ownership even if he cared enough about her opinion to bother.)

This also ties into the problem of the darksaber. Gideon isn’t Mandalorian, and it seems likely he obtained the sword when the Imperial Remant “glassed” the planet, so he’s not recognized as ruler of Mandalore even when he holds the darksaber. Din

Mandalorian, and he won it in combat. That’s an undeniable claim. He’s also worked with Bo multiple times, it’s not his fault that Gideon outplayed both of them, and he’s very, very good in a fight. Bo really wants that weapon to shore up her claim, but she also knows it’s not very honorable to attack an ally who didn’t ask for this, and she probably doesn’t want to risk the possibility that she might lose. She’s in a bind.

Similarly, Din really doesn’t want the darksaber or the responsibilities that go with it, but he can’t just hand it over because that’s against the Creed. Sabine did, but she never “won” the darksaber; she just picked it up out of Maul’s garbage cave, which was vague enough for everyone to accept her passing it up. (She was also probably 17 or 18 at the time and was considered a traitor by most Mandalorians, which probably helped). But Din is also very honorable; if he can’t find a way to pass the saber off, he’ll probably feel obligated to fulfill the requirements to the best of his abilities until he either does find someone else to take them or accepts them permanently (kinda like Grogu himself HMMMMMM). We already know that Din is fairly good at diplomacy from 2x01, but he’s never worked with Mandalorians outside of his clan before, so he’s got a steep learning curve.

So my guess: S3 is going to be about reuniting the disparate Mandalorian groups, all of whom have different versions of what it means to be Mandalorian, and finding some common ground. They will either attempt to retake Mandalore or find somewhere else to make a homeland, or possibly make the decision to stay dispersed. If Bo stays as a major character, we might see her trying to recruit Din into her clan to influence him; if not, she might slink off and wait to see how he does.

Something that could be cool? Din putting a lot of effort into trying to connect with other Mandalorians and Bo admitting that he’s actually doing a pretty good job, even if she wanted to do it herself! #growth for both of them. Meanwhile Boba, who again appears to not give two shits about any of this, will probably be chilling on Tatooine, maybe throwing some info or weapons Din’s way if he thinks Din actually has a shot at something. Or ignoring all of them and taking over the Hutt empire instead, who knows.

Either way, I hope we get more discussion of what happened to Mandalore, Mandalorian identity, and Mandalorian politics in S3.

#the mandalorian #the mandalorian spoilers #din djarin #bo katan kryze #boba fett #jango fett #children of the watch #nite owls #mandalore #mandalorians #meta #darksaber #star wars

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