#also obviously his love for dean is a big part of all this

[chiisana-sukima]

Oh when you used to sing it to sleep

@jinkieswouldyoulookatthis and @blue-chimera - thank you both for your kind and thoughtful replies to my reblog of this post. The og post is getting quite long and also I don't want to put too much writing effort into a reblog that's susceptible to disappearance, so I'm continuing here instead.

I agree with you both that Dean's parentification and Sam's continued acceptance of vs rebellion against it as an adult are an important part of their dynamic. Dean's dying words in the finale attest to this beautifully (as well as many other things throughout the course of the show); I love you so much, my baby brother. To a certain extent Sam is Dean's baby and always will be.

I think though to a large extent, the framing by both Sam and Dean of Dean as Sam's parentified elder sibling is a mutually employed, mostly cooperative sanitization of the central and most damaging aspect of the roles they internalized through their upbringing: Sam is a monster and Dean is the tool to "take care of" it (double reading of "take care of" 100% intentional on my part). Because of this, while readings of spn through the lens of Dean's parentification are definitely valid, I do think they sometimes risk distorting or leaving out important aspects of the characters' personalities, motivations, and relationship.

Jinkies, in my fruitless quest to process without reblogging a take I knew the OP wouldn't appreciate, I had listened to the interview before posting, and I think while Jensen is being flip, he's also getting at what he sees as a truth in the brothers' relationship. I think he's right from a Doylist/co-creator/actor's perspective--Sam is the protagonist who we see through Dean, the deuteragonist's, eyes. Dean, as a piece of the narrative artifact, Supernatural, is there to save Sammy in a way that Sam (up to that point anyway) is not a piece of the narrative artifact whose purpose is to save Dean. From a Watsonian/in-universe perspective though, I think he's mistaken, and that his mistake is the reason his take sounds uncharitable, even aside from the flippant part.

It's just not a very convincing analysis imo to frame a character who spends the first few seasons rejecting immoral power, the next few in an arc that ends with him willingly subjected himself to eternal torture for the good of the world, and the one after that intending to sacrifice himself dramatically to rid the world of one particular species of monster but doesn't because Dean asks him not to, as self-absorbed or not particularly concerned with his effect on others, including on his brother. Likewise, Dean holds up well as a parentified older sibling with no sense of internal self and abysmal self-esteem in some ways, but in others not so much. He does have interests and priorities and a sense of purpose outside Sam. They're all over spn every day, much more so in fact than Sam's are. They're just not enough to override his Sam prioritization.

The main place I think this analysis fails on Dean's side though is that he, as an adult, is just not a very good parent. Obviously as a child he couldn't be expected to be a good parent (or a parent at all) and as an adult he's already damaged and so it's understandable that if big brother-ing Sam is how he chooses to spend the rest of his life, he may still not be equipped to do it. But he fails on such a fundamental, obvious level at the the most basic aspects of parenting--providing safety, unconditional love, and preparing your child to go out into the world as an independent adult--in ways that once he's a grown up are absolutely within his power to at least attempt (for example: if he wants Sam to be safer, it would ultimately have failed because of Fate, but the logical thing to do first would be not hunt. Dean could've followed Sam to Palo Alto. He could've told him to go to Harvard Law if he can't tolerate Stanford after Jess dies. Could've refused to support him throwing his life away of a mission of revenge. Bought him his own car, encouraged him to have his own tastes. Told him convincingly that trusting Ruby was a bad decision but Lucifer is still not his fault).

None of that is meant to be insulting to Dean though, because I don't think that parenting Sam is Dean's real job--even from Dean's perspective--and I don't think his real job is palatable enough that it would be better for either of them if he admitted what it is head on. What his and Sam's real jobs both are imo is being a container for Sam. On Dean's side, this means holding Sam in his arms with love or if that's not enough, holding him in the panic room, which, from this perspective, is also an act of love. Substituting his judgement for Sam's is an act of love. Not encouraging Sam to hold his own interests first or to grow towards independence are acts of love. Given the nature of (what I believe to be) Dean's actual job, they are effective and competent acts of love undertaken under impossible circumstances, even if the results are sometimes pretty horrific. Because they're still better than the alternative.

Likewise on Sam's side, doing his job well means being a model monster--go to an Ivy, exercise, eat healthy, cultivate empathy, don't have desires of your own, hold yourself to an impossible standard, suppress your anger, kill other monsters when they get out of line. And in the moments he can't manage all that--because who can?-- submit to Dean. When he does those things, he's succeeding at his job, and while it would be nice if "let your brother hit you" or "jump in the Cage with Lucifer" wasn't his job, in the world of spn, it is. He is right to be contained by Dean and wrong to have opinions or priorities of his own unless Dean approves them first.

I do think this sometimes ends up looking like Sam has better self-regard, because Dean's job is to "take care of" Sam, and Sam's job is also to "take care of" Sam. But actually they both have absolutely abysmal shit self-esteem. "I should submit to eternal torture because it's my fault someone else is going to do terrible things he could choose not to do if he wanted" is not the thinking of a person with healthy self-regard. The reason neither of them could fill a thimble with their self-esteem or healthy boundaries imo is because neither "monster" nor "blunt instrument" is a person. Neither of these roles is better or more healthy than the other. Fundamentally, if you don't see yourself first and foremost as a human person, then your life is going to suck horribly. And neither of them see themselves that way.

#spn meta #sam winchester #dean winchester #my meta #discourse in the linked post #long post #i am ofc like all of us to some extent projecting #some of you have been fortunate enough to not have had a monster to fail at 'parenting' and it shows

[igotanidea]

Sous chef : Sam Winchester x reader cook AU (part 1)

sous chef fr): works directly under the head chef 

Request: Sammy has his own restaurant, he is a Chef, he works in the administration almost always and usually cooks once a week at the place, he falls in love with the reader. Age gap but everything legal, he cooks for her, she falls in love with his food! and the excellent sex with him (played with it a bit, hope you'll like it anon :)

***

Before we start this story we have to make one thing clear.

Y/N was not a silly teenage rom-com heroine.

Did she watch them? Yes. Did she read them? Yes, absolutely.

But only for the funsies.

It was not like the “To all the boys I’ve ever loved” plotline.

Not like she was only living the fantasy inside her head, too scared to act on her own feelings.

It was not – god forbid – like the After plotline and Y/N was not the good girl focused only on her school stuff not wanting to have anything to do with the bad boys and boys at all.

No way in hell.

She had her own amount of love drama and with the slightly wild character she was more than ready for a new chapter in her life.

College.

Parties, boys, skipping classes and making out in the toilets, sneaking under the professors’ nose.

And now, ladies and gentlemen, let’s talk reality.

She was a nice girl. A kind spirit. A dreamer.

With a vision, sharp tongue and good priorities.

Not a pushover but also not the most popular. Not the sharpest crayon in the box, but street smart. If you asked Y/N Y/L/N how she classified herself she would probably answer in the middle. She could get lost inside her own head trying way too hard to figure things out instead of just letting it unravel and go with a flow. Dead set on putting some sort of label on herself to find out where she belongs. Which was still  bound to happen.

She has just moved to the new city to college and what was better way to get acquainted with the surroundings and fellow students than –

- having a little trip? (I’m pretty sure you thought party, huh?)

 In her defence – she tried partying, but seeing her college friends drunk dancing and throwing up because they actually wanted to let loose and have a big opening of the year was a bit too much. Therefore, she grabbed her girls, completely ignored their whining about ruining the mood and baptized as Y/N, the destroyer, dragged them out into the city.

That’s how they found this little nice restaurant in the suburbs. Nothing too fancy nor too expensive for a students’ budget but good enough for a group of young adult women who just started living (almost) on their own.

It was nice to have a ladies’ night. At least until the door to the restaurant opened and a representative of the opposite sex entered causing all the females to raise their gazes. A little rascal definitely noticed the sudden commotion in the henhouse cause he shot them a teasing gaze and winked in a flirtatious manner before heading towards the counter smiling widely at the other man standing there.

“Is he gay?” Y/N asked, barely holding back a chuckle, while observing the whole scene

“Who?”

“That guy who just entered!”

“What?” her friends laughed  collectively “Dean Winchester being gay? Damn Y/N. He had more girls in his bed in last two months than any of us will have in our whole life!”

“Are you a lesbian then, f/n?”

“What?”

“You said he had more girls than any of us-“

“oh shut it! Slip of the tongue, you know what I mean!”

“so not gay?”

“definitely.”

“who’s the other one then?” Y/N took a sip of her drink pointing out behind her back.

“He?”

 “yes he! Do you see any other good looking guys around?”

“That’s Sam.” f/n replied and went quiet teasing Y/N on absolute purpose.

“Care to elaborate or are you too busy foaming at the mouth while checking out that Dean guy?”

“Can you blame me? Damn, have you seen his-?”

“f/n!”

“face! Have you seen his face?” Y/N rolled her eyes in frustration. “they are brothers. Obviously. Sam’s a chef and Dean ... well, I am not sure what he does for a living but I’m all up for the bad boy style and attitude.”

 “dare I ask?”

“you better not. I see that little blush on your face so enjoy your little teenage rom-com moment.” f/n laughed sipping her drink though the straw purposefully making it loud to get the man’s attention and be the eyecatcher on Y/N’s behalf.

“stop it!” Y/N shushed suddenly feeling eyes on her back, almost burning the hole and – ironically – do making her blush.

“and what if I don’t?”

“you’re crazy!”

“and you’re too shy for your own good. Come one, live a little. Have a hot, steamy romance. Free yourself! Burn the bra!”

“What?”

“It’s a figure of speech!”

“I know what it means!” Y/N laughed and shook her head at her friend’s stupidity. However, instead of leaving or making  a scene she just raised her own glass in a celebratory gesture “cheers!”

And now – tell me, in your honest opinion, don’t you think that few  young woman in an almost empty restaurant at the very late hour, laughing and acting the way young carefree girls should, would get some looks, even if covert?

***

Once the academic year got off the ground the time seemed to pass in an accelerated speed. Before anyone noticed the beginning of October turned into November and then everyone started slowly thinking about actual work and getting some work as a source of income.  

Y/N was no exception to this rule. Between mingling, being a  socially engaged person, going out with friends, studying, preparing for exams, finding little time for her hobbies and currently fighting for an internship, her life was simply crazy.

So she wandered around the city alone to get at least a bit of peace of mind. Not having any specific destination in mind, just letting her feet lead her to whatever place she might find herself in. Just being and floating in space, allowing her imagination and creativity run free, unrestrained by a rigid schedule.

The old bookshop looking like it was taken straight from the Harry Potter universe might have been a spot where she’s been spending most of her time, to such extend that the owner learned her name. moreover, she even started helping him in running the business which was quite good practice given the fact she was studying business and economics. And for one more reason too.

***

“I’m here, sorry for being late! Bus was delayed due to the weather and –“ she walked through the door shaking of the snow not realising that there was a client present and Bobby was nowhere to be found. That meant she was supposed to serve the man standing by the counter, whose face she could not see at the moment. “Morning sir. What can I help you with?” swiftly she hung her damp coat and hat on the hanger and approached him. “Sam?” the name escaped her before she bit her tongue.

“Hi. Do I know you?” the man frowned in confusion, but it was not a confused expression of someone offended by being called by his given name, rather a sympathetic question of someone trying hard to refresh his memory.

“No.” she shook her head with a smile of embarrassment “no you don’t, not really. But my friend got eyes for your brother, you should warn him about a feisty female sharpening her claws.”

“I am pretty sure Dean can handle- wait, you’re that girl from the restaurant.”

“Good memory. Surprisingly good, actually.” She reached her hand towards him “I’m Y/N Y/L/N. It’s only fair to tell you my name since I already know yours.”

“Nice to meet youY/N. You work here?”

“More like volunteer. Full time student, part time bookseller. Doesn’t seem like a match made in heaven, does it?”

“Well, I bet you wouldn’t expect to see a chef searching for a book, will you?”

“I’m not judgmental.” She shrugged taking a look at the pile of volumes in his hands “but choosing modern sci-fi crime and mythology books is a bit surprising. For a guy in general.”

“It’s just side interest. And actually I was hoping Bobby would find something that would be more complex than a manifestation of the author's exuberant and non-realistic imagination”

“Wow, now that’s the wording.”

“for a chef?” Sam smirked.

“For a person. Anyone else would just say the book was fucked up.”

“Thought you weren’t judgmental?”

“I wasn’t.” Y/N shrugged and grinned at him “till you said that you’re pretty much looking for fantasy book with no fantasy in it.”

“Then why do I get the feeling you know perfectly where to find one?”

“Challenge accepted Mr. Winchester.”

#sam winchester x reader #sam winchester #sam winchester x you #sam winchester x y/n #sam winchester fic #sam winchester fanfiction #sam winchester smut #supernatural x reader #supernatural x you

[westofessos]

So I just finished Gilmore Girls for the first time and boy, do I have some thoughts:

First of all, I love this show so much. More than I ever thought I would. It’s just so comforting. I totally get it now.

Now, for specifics.

Lorelai:

I love Lorelai. She does make some dumb choices, but in the end, she’s just so loveable and fun, I can’t help but adore her.

Rory:

I do not get the hate I’ve seen for Rory! Yes, like her mom, she makes stupid decisions, but she’s so wonderful. Maybe it’s just because I relate to her so closely, but I love Rory so much.

Luke:

Ughhhh I love love love Luke. He’s so unexpectedly hilarious sometimes?? I did not foresee that when I started. Scott Patterson is also strangely one of the best actors on the show, which I also did not expect. Luke is a gem, we love him.

Luke & Lorelai:

How could you not love these two together? They’re absolutely perfect for each other and the pining, especially on Luke’s part, makes for incredible television. I do think their dynamic kind of lost the really special ‘will they, won’t they’ tension after season 1/2, but I still ship them. So glad they ended up together. When she was still with Christopher near the end of season 7, I got a little worried.

Paris:

PARIS IS GAY. I will accept nothing less. She is queer in some way, whether she’s a lesbian or bi. She had absolutely no chemistry with any of her love interests but so much with Rory. Also she’s just amazing all around. I fucking love Paris. Make her queer, cowards.

Lane:

How could you not love Lane? She’s the absolute shit. Cool, supportive, loyal, and a fucking rockstar. I didn’t mind her with Zach to begin with (even though I thought it was a bit strange how they all of a sudden liked each other), but when they got married and had kids, that was a big nope for me. Lane Kim deserved to be a famous rockstar.

Emily & Richard:

I went back and forth on these two. On one hand, they’re very entertaining characters and I do believe they’re trying to do what they think is best, but on the other, I think in the end they do more harm than good. The way they dismiss Lorelai’s trauma, and completely disregard everyone else’s opinion because they assume they automatically know what’s best, just rubs me the wrong way. Not to mention the manipulation and the going behind people’s backs. I think there should’ve been an arc at the end where they finally listened to Lorelai and acknowledged what they’d done and tried to change for the better.

Sookie:

Melissa McCarthy is great in everything, and this is no exception. She’s so sweet and lovable, and such a good friend to Lorelai. I love her. Plus her relationship with Jackson is just lovely.

Michel:

He’s such a sarcastic bitch and I love him. I think that’s all there is to say.

The Townies and Side Characters:

Kirk - Kirk is maybe the funniest part of the show and such a little sweetheart, I love him so much.

Babette - aka the best neighbour ever. We deserved even more of her and Morey than we got.

Miss Patty - same goes for Patty! We need more Patty!

Taylor - annoying and obnoxious but the show wouldn’t be the same without him. Irreplaceable.

Gypsy - again, we needed more!! Gypsy was so funny and I just wanted more!

April - I love April! She’s so sweet. I don’t, however, like what her arrival did to Luke and Lorelai’s relationship, and I fucking hate Anna.

Christopher - I don’t hate him, but he’s definitely not one of my favourites. I think it would’ve been a lot better if he and Lorelai had just been really close friends, or if he had just been fully out of the picture.

And finally, the boys:

Dean:

FUCK. DEAN. Do I need to say more? He’s a toxic, possessive, asshole and I hate him. He was okay in the beginning, but the ‘50s episode really clinched my hatred for him. Huge nope from me. What a dick.

Logan:

Man, do I hate Logan. Obviously not as bad as Dean, but he’s such a douchebag!! I genuinely cannot stand him or put up with any of his bullshit. I thought he would grow on me as the show went on but no, I only hated him more.

Jess:

Best for last. My love for this man knows no bounds. Obviously the best fit for Rory, I love them together, but also his relationship with Luke is so great. Also, justice for his and Rory’s relationship while they were dating!! Why did we only get to see it when shit hit the fan? They kept mentioning how they were going to hang out, that they were meeting up later on, so why didn’t we get to see any of it? Why did we only get to see them when Jess fucked up? I hate that. I also hate that they didn’t end up together, even when Jess grew and changed and bettered himself. Anyway, I just love him. I could talk about him forever.

A Year in the Life:

They tried to fit 22 episodes worth of Gilmore Girls into 4 episodes, and it didn’t work. The first episode did an okay job, and I did kind of love the last episode (the wedding!), but the middle two were. . . yikes. No theme song/opening titles? No transitions? NO SOOKIE EXCEPT FOR ONE SCENE AT THE END? Michel thinking about leaving the inn and Lorelai being abandoned by both of her friends? No Jackson? Rory being with an engaged Logan? Basically no Jess except for a few scenes, one of which broke my heart? I could go on forever.

That being said, they should make more after the cliffhanger they left us on. I’ll take whatever I can get, even if it’s subpar.

Anyway those are just a few of my many thoughts about this show. I can’t believe I waited until now to watch it. I need someone to talk about this show with so if you see this and want to talk, DM me.

#gilmore girls #lorelai gilmore #rory gilmore #luke danes #emily gilmore #richard gilmore #paris geller #lane kim #jess mariano #literati #logan huntzberger #lauren graham #alexis bledel #scott patterson #milo ventimiglia #liza weil #keiko agena #sookie st james #melissa mccarthy

[whchenlvr]

hi elle! can I request what the union members would be like when they’re jealous? or you can do eunjang it doesn’t matter ;) anyways love your writings!

i love YOU and yes THANK YOU

when they’re jealous ;

donald na

donald wouldn’t like letting his jealousy show, since you often assure him that he’s the only one for you, but sometimes he can’t help it.

he was in a meeting one evening, and you were waiting outside his office for him to finish when one of cheongang’s men sits across from you. since you don’t want to ruin any potential relationships for donald, you’d put on a smile and greet him kindly.

you realize his intentions may not be as pure as you thought just as the meeting ends, and donald steps out to see you and the man. laughing. together.

you and the cheongang man part ways when you follow donald into his office, closing the door behind you. “it wasn’t what it looked like... that was a nervous laugh, i swear.” 

“y/n, it’s not a big deal. i trust you.” he does trust you. he just doesn’t tell you that there’s a knife under the table and the cheongang man on his mind :)

jake ji

jake hardly gets jealous, but you find him hilarious when he does.

you’d be wearing shorts and a tank top to combat the terrible summer heat when your boyfriend stops by to visit, and of course, that’s when a rowdy bunch of men passes by. you wouldn’t think much of it, but jake hates the way they eye you up and down so much that you have to hold him back from confronting the guys.

you’d tell him to ignore him, and jake would just pout like a child and flail a pointed finger at them. “they were looking at your butt! when i do that, you whack me with a magazine! so not fair.” 

“well, they kept their hands to themselves, until someone i know...” 

“i’m defending your honor!” 

“no, you’re being jealous.”

“yeah, cause they can look for free.”

“bruh, i’m gonna smack you!” it’s all outta love guys dw <3

dean kwon

like jake, dean also has his manga collection, but he tries to be subtle about it. you’re the one who expresses your love for it, and you always ask him to wait to start a new one until you can read it together.

one thing you’re trying to work on is your excessive kindness because sometimes you can’t differentiate when someone is just being nice back, or if they’re flirting with you.

you were in the library with dean and spit up to search for different genres. while your boyfriend was on the other side of the manga section, a boy from school approached you with a comic in his hand. “if you liked the promised neverland, you might like this one, next.”

you took it and thanked him, not seeing the problem, but you were unaware of your boyfriend drilling glare-holes in the head of the guy looking you up and down. you’re obviously surprised when dean appears at your side, pulling the comic from your hands and slamming it into the guy’s chest. 

“we’re leaving.” was all he said before leading you out of the library.

wolf keum

a jealous wolf is a dangerous wolf.

you wouldn’t think much of his sudden silence at first, since he does have the tendency to let his phone die and forget to charge it. until the male friend you’d been hanging out with texts you saying there’s some freak with purple hair stalking him. you’d instantly track your boyfriend down and pull him away from whatever schemes he’s up to, scolding him for being creepy.

he’d gotten better at managing his jealousy when he was around you, but one night, some guy couldn’t keep his hands to himself. and neither could wolf.

the touches weren’t risky or uncomfortable, but wolf waited until the third time the man touched you before breaking. he leaped at the man, and wolf’s jealous streak wasn’t the only thing he broke that night.

jimmy bae

my god, i think jimmy would be one of the most jealous people in the world fr.

he’s a different person when he’s with you and his friends then how he likes to perceive himself to the public, so when that “leader of yoosun” comes out in the form of jealousy, he’d be good at making it known to you that he is obvious, though, whether that be verbally telling you or simply putting an arm around your waist.

in one case, you’d be on a date together when someone comes up to you, rather shamelessly, and tells you how attractive you are. you’d brush him off with a “thanks”, but jimmy’s grip would tighten around you. “y/n, if he doesn’t take his eyes off of your legs, i’m going to break his teeth.”

you decided it best to continue the date at home.

jack kang

jack isn’t one to get jealous often. there have been moments where he’s come close, but jack trusts you enough to hold your own. and that was true until you went out one night and ended up slightly more than tipsy.

you hadn’t meant to drink so much, especially in public, since you were an affectionate drunk, but what was done was done.

you’d be with your friends, flirting with all of them (in a friendly/joking sense of course) and jack can just feel his blood pressure slowly rising. he doesn’t want to get jealous or upset, but when one of your male friends places a hand a bit too low on your back, jack gets up, grabs your hand, and pulls you out of the club.

honestly, you’re more grateful than upset, and a little amused to see your boyfriend break that stoic facade. 

hopefully you don’t mind that they’re spaced out! lmk if it looks better the other way :)

#weak hero #weak hero webtoon #weak hero class 1 #weak hero x reader #weak hero manhwa #donald na #jake ji #dean kwon #wolf keum #jimmy bae #jack kang

[narrynukezankielover]

There’s 3 ways to look at the ep The French Mistake. 1. They have mentioned Days Of Our Lives, Gilmore Girls and House Of Wax which means in the Supernatural world the actors Jensen and Jared exist (they may have mentioned other things that they have been in and shows and movies Misha has been in but these are the ones I’m familiar with). So there is the possibility that in their universe there is a show called Supernatural (Sam said not many people watch the show so it could be that they just never heard of the show) based on the books Chuck writes which is why all the details are correct. Which means there is the possibility that the angel (still can’t spell his name right hopefully I’ll learn) put Dean in that Jensens body and Sam into that Jareds body but that would mean a shit load of doppelgängers. In the Supernatural world that wouldn’t be a big shock. 2. They were sent to the actual real world. Again they could have been put into the bodies of the actors if not then where are the real Jensen and Jared? How did they disappear right when Dean and Sam showed up and if they are in their bodies wouldn’t they have their memories? Yet they don’t. Cas didn’t get sent to that world so how is it that Cas is gone off doing whatever yet Misha is there doing the show? Cas was in on the plan so wouldn’t that also mean that Cas knows he is being played by an actor? Plus Dean takes the script out of Mishas hand. Would he think about how it’s not the angels or god telling Chuck what to write it’s done random person writing a script to their lives. 3. They were sent to another universe which is what Misha said in the ep but who knows if it’s the truth. That would explain Misha being an asshole (it was extremely funny) and since our Misha is so sweet that would make sense. Again they could’ve been put into the actors bodies but again they don’t have their memories so if they didn’t get put into their bodies where are the actual actors. This ep was great but it hurt my head to think about this stuff. I probably took a simple fun ep and thought way too much about it. Best part was “the attractive crying guy” even in the show Misha is attractive. At least they know it. He used both his Cas voice and his regular voice in one scene yet Dean or Sam didn’t say anything. I kinda want one of them to ask him what happened to his voice. Sam saying the best part is there’s no angels got a different reaction from Dean.

He looks sad and worried that no angels means no Cas.

“You have me confused with the other angel. The one in the dirty trench coat that is in love with you.” Definitely one of my favourite lines so far. When he called Cas Sams boyfriend he didn’t react just said “Cas can’t help me.” That’s someone who isn’t hiding anything and just didn’t feel the need to correct him yet with Dean he got an eye roll.

That’s a “ya right an angel is in love with me.” After Cas being a fallen angel for Dean, helping to stop the apocalypse, dropping everything in heaven to come help Dean when he prays to him and telling him at least twice that he’s done all this stuff for Dean Dean still either doesn’t realize Cas feelings or because he is still denying his own feelings he chooses to not believe Cas loves him.

There’s a little moment in Frontierland where Rachel tells Dean how he needs to know his place and that basically Deans problems mean nothing compared to what is going on in heaven.

She says she’s Cas friend and you can see when Dean smiles in Deans head he’s thinking I’m more then a friend to Cas. It’s like he knows it but won’t say it. Then Cas appears to defend Dean.

I’m sorry but I don’t remember the name of this ep but I have found my absolute favourite line in the show “Cas get outta my ass.” The fact that it’s not even a sexual scene makes it great but Bobby and Sam obviously know how close Cas and Dean are and probably have figured out that they have feelings for each other since they both know that Cas is more willing to come if Dean prays to him then if either of them do it. Dean saying why does it have to be him and that Cas is busy and don’t live in his ass kinda proves that Dean isn’t admitting stuff to himself. They spend the entire ep bickering like a couple. It was adorable. Then later in the ep when they find out Cas might’ve lied to them about killing Crowley Bobby and Sam seem a bit pissed and confused.

Dean looks worried. It’s like he knows now that Cas is dealing with a lot in heaven and on earth and Dean seems to be worried about how it’s affecting Cas.

#castiel #dean winchester #dean x castiel #cockles

[roughentumble]

btw you know what concept i loveeeeeeee i love? john killing the yellow-eyed demon earlier in the timeline, and going to live with the milligans while dean and sam are still minors. and obviously brings his boys with him.

its so cheweyyyyyy its so juicyyyy like they wake up one day and are rold they have a BROTHER and their dad(<-based his entire life around being unable to move on from his dead wife) has actually had a girlfriend all along. theyre in a normal house watching their dad be normal and play kickball with a normal little kid who doesnt know how to shoot or identify a haunting or survive in the woods. and dean feels betrayed and confused because his whole life was hunting and trying to be his dad and now his dad is someone he doesnt recognize and surely he should be happy YED is dead and their mother is avenged, but who is he if he's not on the road? and sam is twisted up because all he ever wanted was a normal life but he's in a normal house and he still doesnt FIT, it doesnt feel RIGHT and its all like some sort of twisted mockery, this is what he always wanted so why does it make him feel SICK why does he RESENT it so much? they can act normal in the real world to keep from being questioned but they dont know how to behave in this house. adam is an innocent, adam is a betrayal, adam is treated right by their father as he /should/ be because he'd be a deadbeat otherwise, why does adam get only the good parts of their father when as the years dragged on it felt like they only got the bad? adam wants to know them, adam doesnt trust them, adam drew a picture of his new big step-brothers dont they want to see? they hate him. theyre neutral towards him. they feel obligated to care because he is their brother by blood, and for so long brother was a mantra that got them through everything. but is he brother? is he? brother means something else when it's lived-in, when it's battle-worn and soft with time

and KATE, kind enough to not try and be their mother because of their age, because of the situation, and still they bristle and yearn in equal measure. because they wanted mom but she wasnt mom, she's some stranger who's house they've invaded, theyre past the point of needing it but that means they need it more than ever but she ISNT "mom" she's just. some woman. and she's nice and her house is nice and they lived in shitty apartments and it isnt right to resent but they do, they resent the niceness while also looking down on it because what was so wrong with their life, huh? especially dean, the pride in it, in saving people and put up or shut up and follow orders and being strong. and now he has a bed and his own room, or perhaps shares with sam because there was only one spare room but each bed is a real bed. and what is he supposed to DO? he was going to hunt forever. he lived outside the world and was proud of it. what now? what now?

its sooooOoooOOOOOOO wild and i could keep going but i just.

#sceeaming i want to put them in a situation #pinned tag

[sergeifyodorov]

Dylan for the character ask please??

Okay let’s be real here my first intro to dylan was the same as all of youse. MCSTROME YAOI!

IMPRESSION NOW

DYLAN!! Hockey’s most important unimportant character. I think he’s fascinating -- beyond… that relationship that he has with Davo, which I will touch on momentarily, he’s obviously a student of the game; an intelligent skater and, from his interviews, pretty apparently someone who’s smart and really knows what he’s talking about and looking at, which is why he can easily play centre to high-power finishers like DeBrincat and Ovi. (And why Kane’s aging snuck up on everyone. You forget that a winger does not drive a line.)

I also think this intelligence comes with a pretty wry/deadpan sense of humour, which combined with the Eyebrows (magnificent ones!) and the dark circles gives a certain painted-on look. Like he’s in drag of himself.

not super insightful in this bullet point but he’s wayyyy bigger than i thought he would be

girldad and he is INFATUATED with that toddler weslie he loves his kid and his soon-to-be second kid so much

okay. Let’s talk about the big one now. In juniours, he and Connor had. Some sort of a relationship Going On there… besties but in a toxic-homoerotic-teenager way where you know they are absolutely not going to be okay after any part of it no matter what. And they’re definitely not ok. Dylan’s like “we’re still close to this day!” but i personally believe that is a LIE until proven otherwise… girl they did not LOOK AT EACH OTHER after dylan eliminated connor in that sillie little handshake line in the bubble. What are we talking about here. That’s not a normal healthy teenage-besties thing to do -- Stamkos and Tavares were OHL buddies, and they hugged in the handshake, Matthew Tkachuk and 1634 were USNTDP/OHL buddies and they looked at each other, talked in the handshake. something is not right i know it… fellas what happened between you…

FAV MOMENT

i am going to say eliminating connor as like. Peak narrative momente… but as more of a movement than a moment i do like the new direction he’s going in with the washington capitals… becoming an old man (dad of several children) and also ovi’s daughter

IDEA FOR STORY

i think dylan is settling down right now and becoming more of his own man than a character in the tumult. Baby dylan needs to go on a Dramatic Road Trip though. Confront some demons (metaphorical or literal, your pick). Have some gay sex. Full on early-seasons Supernatural type beat… he needs to feel the open road and kiss men and cry singular manly tears and banish ghosts. not in the same way quinn blinded-by-angels hughes does it. dean winchester activities.

UNPOPULAR OPINION

baby leafsfan thoughts i think… whats his deal w that. has he moved past it now into solely red-wearing symbolism or is he still tied. I think of the three baby leafsfans of 2015 he has moved on the most

FAV RELATIONSHIP

Actually let’s look away from your classic mcstrome stuff and talk about dylovi for a second. they have something and im not afraid to say it. that brunette bitch with the eyebrows WILL be assisting on 895 and you can bet your ass on it

FAV HEADCANON

in the iconic words of lizzo, “i heard you a freak, too” iykyk

#asks #dylan strome

[autisticandroids]

Have you read Apokteino's Bone Trilogy? What did you think of it?

i have! i've actually read all four of apokteino's big four darkfics. i like bone in that it's interesting and well written, but i really wouldn't recommend it or reread it, except in certain circumstances. this is because it's just like, a super miserable read. like it's not very fun and it's SUPER depressing.

however, it's a really interesting fic to compare to the rest of the big four because it has some unique elements, so i definitely recommend reading it if you're interested in it for that reason. all of the lesser triad can really be seen in various ways as dry runs for with understanding, though of course they also have their own merit outside that context.

i'm gonna try to rewrite the big comparison essay that tumblr ate on saturday. so, the following discussing will assume familiarity with the plot of with understanding, but not with the lesser triad of major apokteino darkfics, which are: hesitation, the when series (when all is lost/when the road is as dark as my fears), and the bone trilogy (bone/scarred/unbroken).

here are some various sources to read the now-deleted fics

also, before we start i'd like to thank @astermacguffin, who i've had a lot of conversations about all these fics with, and whose various posts on apokteino and darkfic and evil deancas i might not always agree with but have absolutely influenced me and my opinions on these fics. they're worth reading as background for this post. honestly i'd really just like to dedicate this post to aster because he's gonna love it.

anyway, four thousand words of discussion below. spoilers for all four fics, and obviously, trigger warnings for discussion of rape, abuse, and general violence under the cut.

so i'll start with plot summaries of the lesser triad.

hesitation

hesitation is a canon divergence from season four. in this fic, as part of his metaphorical seduction of dean to the angels' cause, cas is ordered under pain of death to literally seduce dean in order to ensure his loyalty. cas does not want to have sex with dean and is terrified, however, dean does not know this and thinks that cas is coming onto him of his own free will. dean is sweet and kind to cas during sex and works to ensure cas' pleasure, which kind of fucks with cas' head because the sex isn't actually consensual.

canon continues as in the show up through the beginning of season five, with the addition of dean and cas' sexual relationship (which continues consensually after cas rebels). however, cas has some obvious issues and trauma that dean doesn't understand, plus he gets slutshamed by some other angels, so dean eventually figures out something is up and gets cas to talk about what's going on. when dean finds out that he has been unknowingly raping cas, he freaks out, goes into a huge guilt spiral, and they break up.

however, eventually they work through their issues and get back together. happilyish ever after.

2. when

when is a canon divergence from swan song, the only difference being that instead of being resurrected as an angel at full power, cas is resurrected in the same state that lucifer exploded him, i.e., as a human/fallen angel. dean and cas continue hunting together instead of dean going to lisa.

dean resents the fact that cas was resurrected and sam (and to a lesser extent bobby) weren't, plus the fact that cas, now human and useless, cannot resurrect them. as a result, and for some other more complex reasons i will get to in the discussion, he channels his rage and grief about sam's death into beating and raping cas, which eventually evolves into just raping cas when he feels lonely and needs comfort.

cas accepts this because he is entirely alone in the world except for dean and basically trapped with him because he is cut off from heaven and has no human connections, but also because he feels on some level like he deserves it (as a representation of the heaven that has taken everything from dean), that he's useless and that to serve dean or be used by dean is his purpose. cas develops some extreme trauma responses to dean's treatment of him, most notably he blacks out whenever dean gets violent or makes moves to start raping him. cas also prays for mercy on sam's soul.

eventually, an angel comes down from heaven and informs dean that sam is no longer in hell and his soul is in heaven, because heaven heard cas' prayer. dean freaks out but doesn't really talk about it, and the violence against cas stops completely, but they don't discuss it. they continue hunting.

like in both canon and with understanding, law enforcement believe dean to be a serial killer. like in with understanding and unlike in canon, they are extremely motivated to catch him and a credible threat to his and cas' lives and freedom. dean makes a mistake that leads them to his and cas' temporary home base and cas is captured and arrested.

initially cas is treated as dean's accomplice, but once the police? fbi? i forget who catches him, i think it's the police, but who gives a shit, notice his extreme trauma responses and the signs of physical abuse on his body, they reconsider and classify him as a brainwashed victim. a police officer comes and talks to him and tries to get him to work through some stuff.

eventually dean turns himself in out of guilt for the shit he's done to cas and to save cas. he works through some stuff with police officers and eventually they let him see cas, who he apologizes to.

cas breaks out of protective custody and rescues dean, but forces dean to promise that cas will be in charge of everything from now on, and they go on the lam together. happilyish ever after.

3. bone

bone is the most extreme canon divergence. dean stays in hell much longer than in canon and becomes a hardened torturer. instead of season four happening, the angels decide to create their own apocalypse. dean is resurrected to a world where humans and angels are in open warfare against one another and angels are losing.

dean is a torturer for the human side, and tortures angels for information. but eventually he decides to try to brainwash and stockholm syndrome an angel instead, and he happens to pick castiel. it works, and castiel breaks and is taught to serve and obey dean.

however, once cas is broken, dean starts to develop affection for him, then sympathy, and then finally guilt for what he's done. they begin a sexual relationship. due to the brainwashing and stockholm syndrome, cas is intensely traumabonded to dean, but no one, including dean, knows how to undo that, and cas is given his own free choices, but he always chooses dean anyway. also, the tragic twist is that cas is the only angel this brainwashing could have worked on, because it turns out he is the one who raised dean from hell, which changed him, making him capable of emotion in a way other angels are not.

cas and dean exist in a society with other people who know their history, including anna and gabriel who are both unequivocally on cas' side, and their relationship is very much overseen by other people. everyone thinks it's fucked up, but there really isn't anything to be done about it. cas is brainwashed to a super extreme degree, and no one knows how to fix him, so they just let him stay with dean. happilyish ever after.

okay. now discussion.

so, hesitation is kind of the odd man out here, inasmuch as... it has the same basic premise as the other three, which is essentially that cas experiences sexual trauma that bonds him irrevocably to dean, despite the fact that dean was involved in creating that trauma, but in hesitation, it's not dean's fault. dean is in fact as much a victim as cas. i think hesitation is probably sort of... the furthest flung from the other three. there's definitely some stuff you can see that's connected to with understanding, particularly cas' self-victim-blaming and complicated relationship to his own desire for dean, but i think the nature of that difference puts hesitation in a really different category than the other three. because even if the traumabond was created with dean, it's still essentially the difference between a victim remaining involved with their abuser, and a victim of abuse getting involved with someone else and having to work through that. zachariah is the perpetrator in this case, not dean. and that's not to say hesitation is unrelated to the others! i used to think of hesitation as, well, rapefic for cowards, on account of the fact that it had all of the trauma of rapefic but dean's complicity was totally sidestepped. now that i know that it was part of this greater series, i like it a lot more. i would also definitely say that hesitation is the only one of apokteino's lesser triad i would genuinely recommend outside of the context of supplementary reading for with understanding. it's just a genuinely good fic and you should check it out. i recced it, actually.

when is kind of... well, when is definitely and fairly obviously the closest to an actual dry run for with understanding. and that makes it really frustrating because like... well, when isn't very good.

when basically has three major flaws, and one big virtue which makes the flaws even more frustrating.

the first flaw is that dean's characterization is just like. it's just nothing. like the justification given for him to be horrifically beating and raping cas is like. well, okay, in the first one, which is entirely cas pov, cas speculates about his motivation. the motivations he comes up with are that either 1) dean is punishing cas as a way of lashing out against heaven, since it's heaven's fault sam is in hell, or 2) dean is actively trying to send himself to hell to be with his brother. there may be more reasons that cas postulates, i forget, but those are two big ones, and they make sense. however, in the second one, we see dean explain himself:

Dean looks away. He's not sure if Fitz is acting like he wants to be convinced – or isn't convinced, and trying to prove it – to get Dean to talk, or because he actually isn't sure. Either way, Dean needs to the be the killer, for Cas's sake. "It's more like … more like long periods, where I'm out of my head. And I do things because that's what there is. Hanging on the rack or off of it." "The rack?" Dean makes an aborted attempt to wave a hand, cuffs pulling. "Tortured or torturer." "And you chose the latter." Pretty sick that he does – did – put Cas on the rack, instead of himself. "And I guess that's what makes me evil, isn't it?" He looks at Fitz.

and like, i'm sorry, but i'm not gonna mince words: that's dumb. it's essentially a semimystical answer to a psychological question. it just doesn't make much sense. and frankly it's out of character. i hate it.

the second flaw is that it's just too short. when you read when, you gain an instant comprehension of why with understanding needed to be four hundred thousand words, because in thirty thousand, when really can't quite cut it. the characters just don't have time to develop and change and learn in the same way.

the third flaw is the ending, and it's actually a flaw that when shares with with understanding, although in with understanding it's not quite as drastic. essentially, in the end, cas is back in the exact same position as he was at the beginning, with only dean's word standing between him and a resurgence of the abuse. dean's brutalization of cas, like in with understanding and unlike in bone and hesitation, is essentially domestic abuse behavior. dean isn't engaging with cas as an enemy, and he isn't engaging with cas under the influence of false beliefs. he's engaging with cas as his friend cas when he brutalizes him. while dean is no longer under the psychological stress of believing sam is in hell, and has had an epiphany about exactly how bad he fucked cas up, that doesn't necessarily mean things will change, or remain different. old habits die hard. nothing is stopping dean, once a new psychological stressor appears, from treating cas just the same as he had before, except his moral convictions, which didn't stop him the first time. he could easily find ways to justify himself. and on cas' end, he's just as totally dependent on dean materially as he was at the beginning of the fic, and while he's worked through some stuff and might run if dean started up again, he also might not, because it's not like a few conversations are enough to really teach new habits of mind.

and then like... the big virtue of when is that in concept it's soooooo good and juicy. the heavy emphasis on outsider pov, especially the law enforcement pov which is really a treat just like in with understanding, except i like it more in when because it's about canon cas rather than fbi agent cas who is a good protagonist for wu but way too comprehensible to his colleagues at the bau. the way that dean and cas escape and hide by depending on the kindness of someone dean's saved. the idea that dean is brutalizing cas because he's actively trying to go to hell to be closer to sam, which is just so juicy i can't stand it because it simultaneously gets at the horror of the brothers' codependency and also gets at dean's tendency to not care who he's hurting as long as he hurts himself worse. the fact that cas is like if you had asked i would have given you my body willingly!! the fact that cas was already in love with dean when the violations start!! that's so crazy to me!!

a version of when that's a hundred and fifty thousand words, where dean stays in prison for months while cas recovers and goes to therapy in some kind of group home but is also unable to really integrate into human society because he is genuinely alien. more emphasis, almost hesitation style, on the idea that cas already wanted dean, and cas having to pick apart what desire remains there from the horror of being repeatedly raped. like the most unsatisfying thing about with understanding, to me, is how cas isn't really cas, and how dean and cas have no prior relationship. and like i do like some of the stuff in with understanding that comes from that, such as the fact that cas kind of becomes canon cas via trauma in some ways, and the fact that with understanding is like a dark subversion of the soulmate trope, but it does kind of make me crave a version where cas is himself and deancas are themselves you know? and when could be that. a much more complex and comprehensive outsider pov where we dig into juicy elements that when leaves on the table, such as the speculation that cas may have been in a cult (and we dig into how the outsiders are obviously wrong but maybe on some level they were right). maybe also some outsider pov from hunters and/or people dean has saved such that we actually see outsider pov on the nature of dean and cas' relationship from people who understand more of the context, and also such that when cas breaks dean out and they go on the lam, they can at least partially integrate into a community that will keep their relationship stable. or perhaps, for a tragedy, we see their relationship begin to deteriorate again once cas is dependent on dean again. make dean's motivation be about going to hell with sam, and really dig into that, explore dean's willingness to hurt other people as long as he's also hurting himself. when could be the perfect fic. it literally could. just for me.

and then bone is like... the thing about bone is that most of my thoughts about it revolve around it being a kind of counterpoint to with understanding and when. like before i talk about it i'm gonna say a couple of the things i really like about it which don't have that much to do with that.

the experiential descriptions of cas' brainwashed state are so fabulous and chilling, and that is i think the thing from bone that really made it into with understanding, although in bone it's so much clearer and more visible, which, you know, on the one hand, feels less real, but on the other it's soooooo chilling, you're really forced to think about it, to consider cas' experience, plus it draws your attention to similar moments in with understanding and makes those much more unsettling.

the side character stuff is fabulous, i especially liked ellen and anna, but really all of it is good.

the thing where angels can't feel and therefore could never have been broken like cas was, but the fact that cas had saved dean from hell, had been changed by him, on some level already loved him, and that's what made him vulnerable to dean's brutality is like such a juicy little tragedy.

but like. now let's compare.

like, i already pointed this out, but when and with understanding both start from like, a kind of domestic abuse situation that is enabled by circumstances that don't really change. bone, on the other hand, is like... dean is originally engaging with cas as an enemy combatant, and this is enabled by the fact that they are on opposite sides of a war. but these circumstances do genuinely change. bone creates a situation almost more akin to hesitation, where the main conflict and question is: you end up with a cas who has this trauma bond created by trauma which is absolutely in the past, and it can't be gotten rid of, so how do you live with it? as opposed to with understanding and when where it's more like how do you keep dean and cas from backsliding into an already established abusive dynamic. and the thing is bone dean is still culpable, and the level of like... so traumatized he's barely a person anymore that cas is on in bone is unreal. but it's more a question of: dean is not going to backslide into traumatizing cas again, but how can dean be prevented from accidentally or on purpose taking advantage of cas' traumatized state? how can cas be helped to rebuild his sense of self, is that even possible? cas wants to stay with dean, but can that desire be taken seriously if it's a result of horrific damage inflicted on cas that must be recovered from? is cas' consent meaningful? what if cas can never recover, does that change the answers to the other questions? if he can never recover, is it alright to allow him to be happy with dean? these are all super crunchy questions and they're like a really fun alternate take on the same basic premise that hesitation, with understanding, and when are all taking on.

and like the thing about. okay i'm gonna talk about with understanding for a moment. the thing about with understanding is that it rests on all of this exceptionalism and individualism and psychologizing of dean's behavior. when actually a lot of it is circumstantial? like the thing about with understanding is that with understanding dean if he was in normal circumstances would probably be a manipulative, emotionally abusive person who would be likely to pressure people into things including sex, have absolutely zero boundaries, and might even be inclined towards some light stalking, but he wouldn't be kidnapping anyone. he would probably stay in the category of "super shitty boyfriend" rather than "fbi manhunt." but the thing is his circumstances aren't normal. like, if you are dean winchester in the world of with understanding, it's almost a sane thing to do to temporarily kidnap your soulmate just so you can meet once and then let him go. it's still really awful, but it makes circumstantial sense because you KNOW that that will allow you to meet in heaven, and otherwise he would arrest you. it's really bad, but it's not as insane a move as it would be if nearly anyone else did it. it makes sense. and then once you have your soulmate kidnapped temporarily, it's not that big of a leap to just... give into temptation and not let him go. add onto that the fact that dean is just used to kidnapping and torturing people (those people are usually demons, but still), has access to all of these sometimes magical tools and weapons and equipment and a bunker in the middle of nowhere, is totally outside society and has no external observers in his life to sanity check him and no one to really hide from, and is used to being on the wrong side of the law and totally confident that that won't be a problem for him, and it's like... yeah. like the thing is if wu dean had all the same personality traits but was a car mechanic, cas would never have been in that situation. and like, the way everyone reacts to dean like they're so shocked that he treated cas "well" and that he's so capable of a certain level of basic self-awareness it's like... well of course! most people who commit crimes like the one dean has are probably way more dysfunctional than dean is in various ways, because they need to get over more barriers like "fear of being caught" and "the realization that oh my god i'm planning a kidnapping" and "having to go to work and leave their victim at home" and other such trivialities that dean's lifestyle makes irrelevant. of course every crime is made possible by circumstance, but dean's situation is particularly unique.

but that doesn't mean that because wu dean is less dysfunctional than the average kidnapper, he's easier to fix with psychotherapeutic solutions. indeed, quite the opposite! the barriers to him committing horrific acts are inherently lower due to his circumstances, which means that he could be the healthiest guy in the world and he would still be a lot more dangerous than john q. average. to pull an example from canon: one time sam has a sexual fantasy about rowena and it freaks him out so bad that he yells at her and slaps her in manacles. this is a pretty horrifying and misogynistic act, but sam is like... he's a fairly regular guy. he has some hangups about sex, but not to an abnormal degree. but he does have a set of magic manacles, and an occupation that has desensitized him to violence and chaining people up, and a pre-bottled justification (she's evil!) that says it's okay to be violent to rowena, and so this happens. you get my meaning? so fixing wu dean with therapy is like... it's kind of the last thing i'd reach for, you know? it's cathartic for cas, but it's not effective.

and like wu dean's circumstances don't really change! hell, in the end, dean and cas are ONCE AGAIN isolated together in the wilderness. and sure, cas is kind of choosing to be there, but he's also trapped by the fact that he's a wanted fugitive. it's so much more effective than the cuff because there's no more soft landing waiting for him back in normal society, only a hard prison cot.

anyway the thing about bone is that in bone the change is almost all circumstantial. like yeah dean does have like a guilt epiphany and shit, and obviously the pathology of hell trauma does affect dean's actions as a torturer. but the problem and solution are not situated in that pathology. in the end, the main thing that happens to fix things is that cas is no longer considered an enemy, and he is integrated into a society which contains people who care about and can care for, keep an eye on, and sanity check both him and dean. there will never again be circumstances in which it is easy for dean to torture and brainwash him. you know? and that really highlights what's going on in when and with understanding.

#rape tw #abuse tw #spn #asks #anonymous

[presentlydean]

my god the revisionist history in this fandom sometimes, like.  i guess some part of me should be glad that people watching it in 2023 can watch supernatural and say, this show was not queerbaiting, dean and cas are obviously together and anyone who watches it should know, and the confession was redundant and useless, but.

guys.

i'm not saying this undercut the work of many writers who spent years layering in details of queer subtext, parallel storylines, and meaningful moments between dean and cas.  those things exist—alongside actively homophobic text, yes, but they exist, and they are important—hugely so to me.  but there is a reason why destiel is a case study in academic works on queerbaiting.  there's a wink and a nudge that comes with a lot of the queer subtext in the 2000s and 2010s, where creators can allude to their characters being queer either by having other characters joke about them or by putting them in queer situations, but the audience is supposed to be in on the ‘joke’ and nothing is meant to come of it.  nothing was meant to come of the queer subtext on supernatural.  it was always meant to be queerbaiting.  

i'm going to call out season eight/season nine era specifically because it was mentioned in one of the posts i'm vaguing (if you see this—i just didn’t want to reblog yours to be grumpy and contrary so i made my own—no ill will!).  watching supernatural as season eight aired was actively painful because you would see these parallels between sam and amelia and dean and cas; you’d watch the writers layer in romantic tropes for dean and cas; you’d have dean on his knees, bloody, saying “this isn’t you, i need you;” you’d have all the deans cas was brainwashed to kill; you’d have “he’s in love…………………with humanity”—and then a fan would go up on stage in a convention and ask a simple question about the relationship between dean and cas and get eviscerated.  that's if you manage to get a question about them past the censors—oh! because questions about ‘destiel’ were literally banned.   

a teenager says she’s bisexual and is booed by the convention audience and dismissed by jensen ackles (“i'm gonna pretend i don’t know what you asked,’ as i seem to recall him saying) for saying she sees a lot of herself in dean and asking if he might be bi.  homophobic jokes from the actors.  big, blow-out fights between fans and creators.  a bigwig getting on twitter and calling fans delusional for pointing out what was actively happening between the characters and what it implies (this is where misha collins’s “your not crazy” tweet came in, and let me tell you people held onto that one like it was a lifeline—because it was).  people quit the fandom then, a lot of them, because of how vicious it was.  people would send anon hate to destiel shippers telling them to kill themselves while literally quoting jared and jensen’s nasty comments on dean and cas.  after that point, even the show started trying to dismantle some of the affection between dean and cas after that point (cue someone asking about the relationship between the characters and jensen saying they don’t really have one this season, and it’s refreshing because the dean and cas thing has been blown out of proportion).   

as someone who was a young adult and had imprinted on this show like a baby duckling, it was just a straight up bad time.  and i'm sorry, you cannot say that just because there was a subtextually queer connection between dean and cas at that point, the show wasn’t queerbaiting.  if the creators cannot respond to polite questions about the basic queer subtext of their show, that’s queerbaiting.  it just is. 

and as for the confession?  it was hugely important.  and half of what made the confession powerful actually was “in just saying it,” not just for the characters, but also given the fraught context of the show.  in speaking it, they made it real in a way that it wasn’t before simply because of the cultural context it exists in.  they said the thing that they had forbidden. 

when i say ‘unparalleled media experience’ when talking about supernatural, i really do mean it.  never have i seen a show so actively hateful towards its fans turn around and say, no, we were wrong, you were right (and then weirdly try to reverse it after the show ended????).  i stopped breathing when cas started his confession because, after the pain that came from season eight and nine, i never thought they would get as close to explicitly stated destiel again.  and then they did it.  they said that right there.  after all those years. 

dean should have kissed him.

#destiel #supernatural #junespeaks #queerbaiting #sorry a couple of posts got me worked up tonight #have a rant #and really if you wrote one of the two posts that prompted this #i do mean you no ill will. i just have a lot of feelings about this #and i think that people forgot how bad it was to be in the fandom at that time #it really hurt #and what we got was important #even though we didn't get everything #suicide mention cw #homophobia cw

[perfectlovepoison]

thots on the new junjou mix chapter (tero part)

spoilers below obviously

but first of all a summary of the tero part if anyone is interested.

this is a pretty simple chapter. it starts off with the dean saying to miyagi that he’d like to set him up with another woman (i.e. a miai, arranged marriage type thing). miyagi manages to decline him.

miyagi "I thought this would happen eventually..." -> yes, so did the readers

later on miyagi comes home and shinobu is mad with him because he heard about the miai from risako. (cue miyagi thinking: damn it risako!) miyagi clarifies that he declined and shinobu quickly calms down.

angery

shinobu mentions that he has always talked about not caring about what others think, but he also doesn’t want to be the one dragging miyagi down. miyagi says, you really love me a lot, huh. shinobu says, is it a problem if i do?

cue the shortest sex scene known to man (ahem but i’m happy it was included, bc recently there hasn’t been one for them)

like how does he carry him like this? miyagi is actually so strong

finally, afterwards, whilst shinobu is wrapped up in a blanket, he talks about how he hates beating around the bush like this, and declares that in order to get rid of this stress, he will just tell his father about their relationship.

cue miyagi going waaaait waaaait let’s slow down and discuss this first!!!! and gag end.

"I thought there were some things that you can't tell your parents. But actually, there are things that you have to tell them, because they're your parents"

Miyagi: Nnnnn?

***

my thoughts: first of all, i was just expecting some fluff so when i turned the page and the dean was there, i was like oh?!?!?!?

and then it was the arranged marriage plotline and i was like There It Is, tero finally gets their version of this plotline lmao

but it was also quashed very quickly, shinobu’s temper is basically played for laughs at this point, he’s too mature now for it to actually be a big deal. like, he knows there’s no way in hell that miyagi would actually do it. but he seems somewhat frustrated by the situation. like, we know that if they keep it a secret, they have to keep dealing with stuff like this forever (i'm like.....shinobu could be next for a miai since his father likes setting people up so much?!?!? lol)

although i dont believe that we’re immediately going to go into tero plot from the next issue (i mean i would be VERY happy if we did but…) i feel like this is kind of a flag for where the story will lead. the dean (and risako, etc?) will find out about them in the end - tbh i think it will end up being by accident before they have a chance to tell him, because nakamura sensei loves the drama, but either way…

this short chapter ended up having really big implications bc even if shinobu doesn’t reveal their relationship right away, we know his intentions now. it kinda sets the pace for the future. and its very shinobu-like to be like, this is how it is now deal with it!!!

in fact this chapter really called back to the terrorist chapter where miyagi was worried about holding shinobu back and being a burden to him, but interestingly the difference is that miyagi just worries about it all internally and is like 'should i break up with him for his own good...?' meanwhile shinobu is like 'i acknowledge the burden i am causing you but i will never break up with you' (isn't it good he's so open huuhu)

tbh, i was also really amused that the dean was trying to set miyagi up with a new person. i thought we might be leading into more of a plot where risako wants to remarry, but, not even her own father is on her side with that one lol. it’s kind of funny how involved he wants to be in miyagi’s love life. it does feel almost paternal (in a kind of meddling parent kind of way lol)

also that shinobu and risako are on good terms enough to be communicating with each other on stuff like this. is risako just like hey!!!!! did you know miyagi is going to a miai??? and shinobu is like whaaaat?????

at the same time, since risako still seems to have an interest in miyagi, she might also try to get some info from shinobu since she knows they’re living together. (though i kinda doubt that shinobu says much. i mean it already takes a lot for miyagi to get information from him lmao. imagine risako trying to find out anything)

so much food for thought just from one chapter. i really wasnt expecting it at all. i still have so many thoughts. it really reminded me why i love shinobu as a character. how did he go from seeming like the most unhinged character to seeming like the most reasonable one? he is selfish but he completely owns it. i really love him a lot.

i'm still waiting for miyagi's birthday btw

and, romantica and egoist were also cute. usagi’s picture book was a collab with yukina which is a fun bonus. they were good. (my comments are so short dgfjgdkjf)

i was surprised that there was no junjou mistake, i'm assuming because there was already umi ni nemuru hana & sekakoi & junjou mix which is already a lot of things to be dealing with but yeah. if there turned out to be a mix chapter with no terrorist i would be sad so i was like...oh

also shinobu wrapped up in a blanket (or towel? but looks more like a blanket) has improved my life

#tag: text post #junjou romantica spoilers #junjou terrorist

[aew-kun-age-regression]

Hi there, hopefully I'll do this request right (never done a request for agere stuff yet so sorry if I'm too descriptive or something!) Was wondering if I could request Caregiver headcanons for Ruby from Supernatural? Preferably if it includes a disabled regressor (wheelchair user) who regresses around 5-10? No problem if that's too complicated though, general headcanons would be fine in that case!

Hiii my lovely!! I love this request! I think your the first person to request something supernatural related and I love it!!! I really hope this is okay as I came up with these ideas during an exam 😂 I tried to do your request as best as I could however I wasn't really able to mention some things all too much so apologies for that <3 I hope you like what I came up with!!

"Caregiver!Supernatural!Ruby Headcannons"

(Winchester reader)

A/N: Okay so this is a specialised request so this is not my traditional headcannons but headcannons for a certain prompt <3

Also please note that there is brief mentions of the Lilith situation

• For this I'm assuming you are also a Winchester.

• So when she meets you she's definitely shocked, she obviously knew your brothers. Every angel, demon, monster new Sam and Dean Winchester however very few people knew about you.

• I feel like Nicknames wise she calls you Hunny or Sweetheart.

• During the time where she found herself helping the boys she done many favours where she looked after you whilst the boys went on hunts. (She definitely wasn't complaining though, she was more than happy to do so.)

• I feel like the main activity the two of you would do is watching TV. She knows a decent amount but she is still a demon who has been in hell for a while so she's not necessarily up to date on everything. You'd introduce her to new movies and shows almost daily and that would be a big part of the bonding between the two of you.

• If you want to move around not in your wheelchair she will just pick you up and walk around with you. Because yes. She cam can that. Perks of being a demon - Super strong <3

• When the whole Lilith situation happened Ruby became really protective knowing that there was all sorts of new monsters roaming around that even your brothers didn't know how to get rid of.

• Lilith originally wanted you to be the one to open the gates, however Ruby couldn't let you do it as she became attached.

• At first Lilith didn't really understand as Ruby is a demon and shouldn't have such feelings and even when she does she shouldn't show it but eventually the two of them came to an agreement and instead Ruby got Sam to do it.

• You were kept away during the gates opening.

#sfw agere #agere blog #sfw little post #sfw littlespace #little space #agere little #aewlittlerambles #fanfics #fanfiction #aewlittleheadcannons #little space reader #sfw little community #little reader #little!reader #supernatural x reader #supernatural agere #supernatural #spn #spn agere #ruby #supernatural ruby #supernatural ruby x reader #caregiver!supernatural!ruby

[oldsargasso]

A sudden thought—do you think Winner’s parents dote on the rest of the polycule? I get the impression Kim’s family is back in Korea, so him and Dean and Kenta don’t exactly have any blood relations around. While Winner’s parents certainly aren’t the BEST people, do you think they take well to his boyfriends? Do they have them over for regularly scheduled family dinner time? Do they gift the boys overly large portraits of Winner? So many thoughts to be had

woke up to this and then had to do actual work at my actual job instead of replying 😒 might be a crime actually.

I have been thinking about Winner and his parents a LOT lately actually (working on the next part of bad habits - I JUST REALISED I haven't posted part 3 yet lol) anyway. Yes. to all of that.

I'm looking at all this from the headcanon that Winner's parents are rich and they dote on him like no other (he's an only child FOR SURE). they love him and he loves them. maybe there was a time when he was a moody teenager and he said he hated them but they're past that now. his mother was definitely one of those mums that turns up to school events way overdressed but pulling it off because you can tell she's so thrilled to be there for her kid. but also she complains to the principal if Winner doesn't win something.

sorry am now just thinking about Winner being excited for when he's old enough to be included in his parents "bitching about other people" sessions. if anyone's house is well-stocked with nice alcohol it's theirs.

I think they accept him having a boyfriend because he's their son and they love him. they're just happy he's settling down 😌(winner used to get around for sure) it definitely starts as just ONE boyfriend. test the waters. I'm enamoured with our idea of Winner using his parent's connection and money to get Dean's legal punishment massively downgraded or absolved. and Dean's a sweet boy 😌 (I'm thinking about this conversation lol) his parents are like "okay! a boyfriend! living together already? that's a big step sweetheart--- no you're right it does make sense financially but you know we're always happy to help, you don't need three housemates even--- no we understand, you like to always have people around but you know you're always welcome to move back home---well of course we want you to be happy, darling but---" then Winner does visit them at home. and brings Dean and their two. housemates.

Kim is their favourite obviously. even when he's just hanging around as a "friend". he's polite! he smells really good - no it's not weird to notice that about your son's friends okay - and he's really good at diffusing any kind of tensions that might build up.

but Winner's parents DO NOT like Kenta. he would ping a parent's radar so hard. danger senses in high alert. he doesn't hardly talk. he always stands in awkward places, like he's not really trying to join the conversation? "and he smokes, darling, I thought you said you were going to quit, that can't be a good influence". and then Winner's mum accidentally sees Kenta's back, all scarred - Winner makes up a story like "oh he was in a bad car accident..." and his mother is like "oh well time to adopt him actually." and Kenta gets into the kitchen and bakes a bunch of delicious things and further cements his place in their hearts.

and then obviously they get caught mixing up the couples. maybe Kim kisses Winner (they thought his parents were gone!) and they're like "how could you cheat on poor lovely Dean! we raised you better than that! although it is Kim...." and then Winner and his parents get drunk and have a heart to heart.

it takes a moment but Winner's parents are like "well obviously many people would fall in love with our wonderful son 🥰" Winner's dad sits the other three down for a communal shovel talk. his mum corners Winner and shows him every single present her husband ever bought her like "this is the standard, sweetheart, I better not hear of you not meeting it". they send gifts for everyone's birthdays and half the time it's things Winner didn't even know the others liked or wanted.

#asks #pit babe #pit babe polycule #I GOT A LOT OF THOUGHTS #this is a reminder to myself to respond to your other asks lol

[zmediaoutlet]

happy wincest wednesday and happy 2023! reverse uno: what are your favorite ways for john to find out dean and sam are fucking in a universe where dean and john are ALSO fucking?

woooooo wincest wednesday uno games and everyone's a winner --

Except John, lol.

You know, all my wincest fic and all my Dean/John fic and all the Full House of Wincest I've done, and somehow I don't think I've ever written that scenario? How tf did that happen?

Part of it may be that I haaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAATE fics where John's even vaguely a shipper on deck -- even where he's like 'ah, Sam and Dean are too obsessed with each other but That's For The Best bc Thin Hunting-Related Justification' just never vibe quite right with me. I have very narrow parentheses in which I find John believable. (What a surprise, a hard canon stance from ol' z.)

But -- a John who's been fucking Dean doesn't have too much of a leg to stand on, does he. Except: he does, of course he does, he's the god-patriarch and his word goes. It depends, of course, on the type of Dean/John that's been going on, but I'll go with my version because it's mine and I like it best, haha: a largely unspoken helpmeet scenario, where it's just part of the overarching need Dean has for his dad's love and attention and calm and happiness, and where John knows that he's using Dean and knows that even if Dean loves it he's still ruining his son and, this is key, John chooses to keep doing it anyway because that's who John is, as a person. Dean the extension of his arm and the step under his boot and something beloved but also something useful and ignorable until it is time to use it. Not size-72 font obviously awful abusive but -- well. Canon levels of abuse, let's go with that.

SO given that: let's call it a wincest scenario where Sam's in his mid-late teens and wants to take up with Dean. Did he know about D/John, or suspect? My favorite version of weecest + dadcest is actually for Sam to be kind of oblivious about it, as he was oblivious to a lot of key things in his teens (as you gestured to a little in your answer) -- he wants Dean and his attention and his love but he's also a very strong-willed teenager and so he also just wants to get his rocks off and knows that Dean's willing, whenever they crack past that barrier. And Dean, already with that door blown open inside himself, can't help it -- because after all he knows he's good at this, and he knows that it does make people closer, and he loves Sam and wants Sam to be calm and happy too, and isn't it just -- easier? He'll leave John on a hunt well-drained and focused and come home to Sam all bitchy and missing him and saying stuff like he shouldn't make you hunt, you should be in school, and Dean sighs and he could argue but he could also thumb Sam's hip, and Sam'd shut up all big-eyed and hopeful and going, oh, can we -- and Dean can say something like, yeah, and missed you, Sammy, which is only true, after all. And it's good, and when Sam's snoring on the fold out couch Dean can shower and carefully thumb two loads out of himself and then call John and say how's the job, Dad? and not really -- think about it. It's just taking care of things, like he always does.

SO, given that: it's easy to have John walk in on them -- a hunt finished early, they're wrapped up in each other; it's easy to have a demon tell him, and he doesn't believe it but then he's been hearing a lot of stuff about his boys from demons, and they lie but also blah blah. I prefer small and undramatic, though, so what if instead it's that one day John's home and he's actually slept well for once and he's not hungover and he's just going through the paper at the table, and Dean's cleaning the guns like he's supposed to and Sam's doing homework like he's supposed to and John, not being an idiot or a monk, just -- picks up on a vibe. A look Sam gives Dean. A smile from Dean to Sam that John's had aimed at himself, in key moments, and he just -- knows, the way that sometimes you know things, and he's sitting there with the paper and his hands turn to fists.

He's NOT a shipper on deck. He's NOT thinking 'oh, The Things I Have Done To My Family, O Woe But Unforch That's The Way It Is.' I think he's not thinking at all, in the way that we can ignore deep horrors if we have to, and he closes the paper, and he says he's going out, and he takes Sam with him because -- he's the dad, he gets to -- and Sam's sullen in the passenger seat as they head to the gun store or to buy salt or whatever errand John's operational-matters mind invents, and they barely talk but John watches Sam as they go through the chores and gears are turning and he --

stops fucking Dean. Stops talking much to them at all, for a while. Takes jobs and sends Dean on jobs and makes Sam help. Work, and work, and work, and when they're alone once Dean's not being subtle about trying not to look at John, because he doesn't know what he did wrong but he must've done something wrong, and John can't say, and he knows it's hurting Dean but then again when has he ever not done something he thought was necessary because it might have hurt Dean? And Dean heals because that's also what Dean always does, but there's a crooked spot where the bone broke, and later when John's dead and Sam holds Dean on a night after and kisses his cheekbone, careful, not sure what's okay now that everything's even more fucked up, Dean keeps his eyes open on the ceiling and sees ghosts of older days.

#answers #happy wincest wednesday #--grim and angsty wincest wednesday #either way! #wincest #the full house of wincest #the thing about it is: #john's a shitty dad but he's not a MONSTER #[with the usual handwave involved re: vertical incest] #i can't see him blowing up #i can't see him saying anything #john's parenting method is based around absence #whether cruelty or a strange sense of kindness #so he indulged and he fucked up and now -- poof #where's your cryptid dad this time

[coffincanary]

Happy WW Dove!!! I'm on a music kick so:

This week I wanna know what your favorite Sam/Dean song is and maybe a lil drabble if you're feeling very inspired

Happy WW, thank you for the ask Rae <3

My favorite Sam/Dean song is absolutely Twin Size Mattress by The Front Bottoms

I am such a sucker for Stanford-era Wincest (and those times around it) especially for that sweet spot where things got worse shortly before and after Sam left and this song perfectly encapsulates Dean's feelings from that era <3

This is gonna be long but I'm gonna go through this song and just relate it to the feelings Dean's gonna feel :) (Sorry for any formatting weirness I had to copy this from my PC because webbrowser Tumblr does not like sending my asks)

This is for the lions living in the wiry broke down frames of my friends bodies When the flood water comes, it ain't gonna be clear It's gonna look like mud But I will help you swim I will help you swim I'm gonna help you swim

Dean's sense of having lost so much yet how he and everyone around him still keeps on fighting. He knows Sam's gonna experience the same things because it's the hunting life and it's gonna be horrible and Sam is going to feel like he's gonna loose everything but he's not alone because Dean is there to help him (swim). 

This is for the snakes and the people they bite For the friends I've made; for the sleepless nights For the warning signs I've completely ignored There's an amount to take, reasons to take more

Dean's life, the bad (monsters/snakes), the good (the people he's saved), what he's gained and what he's lost. He doesn't want to loose anymore, but he's going to loose Sammy. He wonders if there's anything he could have done to prevent it, how Sam only had so much to give but how Dean, John and the hunting life demanded more. 

When they close their eyes and prayed you would change And they cut your hair, and sent you away You stopped by my house the night you escaped With tears in my eyes, I begged you to stay You said, hey man, I love you but no fucking way

Sam not living up to what John wants him to be, so John pushes him harder and harder (cutting hair as a form of punishment? Something John would probably do). Dean does nothing against this, nothing to defend his brother. Sam leaves, and Dean begs him to stay, but Sam obviously won't. From Dean's perspective, Sam is abandoning the family, is abandoning him. Dean loves Sam more than Sam loves him, hence why it's "I love you BUT"

I'm sure that we could find something for you to do on stage Maybe shake a tambourine or when I sing, you sing harmonies

Sam's been upset with being left out of the family business on several occasion. Dean wonders if including Sam more would have stopped him from leaving BUT his thinking is still caught up in the need to protect Sam. His part of the family is to be protected, hence why he isn't supposed to be proactive but either do things that are generally superfluous or follow Dean and John in some way. 

This is for the lake that me and my friends swim in Naked and dumb on a drunken night And it should've felt good But I can hear the Jaws theme song on repeat in the back of my mind

Dean is entirely unable to relax, even when he gets the chance. There is always some danger, something horrible lurking, someone who needs to protected from a monster in the dark. I think that probably got worse when Sam was gone, because his baby brother, alone at college? No one is there to protect him. 

There are lessons to be learned, consequences for all the stupid things I say And it is no big surprise you turned out this way The spark in her eyes The look on your face I will not be late

Dean blaming himself for Sam leaving, thinking it's no wonder that his brother left. Also, him taking the blame for Jessica dying (the spark in her eyes) and Sam watching her, but once again, he saves his brother, it is the one thing he can do. 

I'm sure that we could find something for you to do on stage Maybe shake a tambourine or when I sing you sing harmonies

Dean and Sam kind of having to find their place in a new life. Dean still wants Sam to follow him, because he is still worried about his baby brother. It's more tentative than before, because this time it's Dean alone who is in charge of his brother, of protecting him, and there is no John to help him. 

I wanna contribute to the chaos I don't wanna watch and then complain 'Cause I am through finding blame That is the decision that I have made

In some ways, Dean was never happy with Sam being back in the hunting life. His brother was happy with Jess, and Dean wanted that for him, in some way. But, the chaos allows him to be with Sam, and so Dean wishes it never ends, he wants to keep hunting and keep Sam there with him. There is chaos, but they will go through it together. I think this is Dean finding himself to be frustrated with his guilt and feelings regarding Sam, wants to stop finding blame in himself and just complain when he could accept what has happened. 

She hopes I'm cursed forever to Sleep on a twin-sized mattress In somebody's attic or basement my whole life Never graduating up in size to add another And my nightmares will have nightmares every night Oh, every night, every night

But he always returns to his self-loathing and guilt. He imagines that Jess, his brother's chance at escaping hunting, loathes him for dragging Sam back. Sam's chance at a new, ordered life thwarted by his brother. Jess' curses regarding Dean is what Dean thinks he deserves - to be alone, never to "graduate up in size to add another". He will forever be haunted by his nightmares, he will never sleep peacefully again. 

This whole song is (well wasn't intended but can be read as) about Dean regretting parts of his life, wondering if he could have done differently, and hating himself for the things and mistakes he thinks he's made. It's about him literally being stuck in his childhood (twin size mattresses). He wants to stay there with Sam, on that mattress, like when they were kids, but Sam has outgrown that part of himself. Dean drags him back, but he is still stuck in the past, alone, and while Sam is there and part of Dean wants to stop hating himself for that, he can't. He can't forgive himself, he can't move on, he will be perpetually stuck on that twin size mattress with his brother, dragging his brother down with him. And he will never stop regretting that. 

#this is a mess #but it is my mess <3 #thank you so much for the ask!! #wincest wednesdays #Wincest #Samdean

[amiwritesthings]

Happy WW bestie! Alright... who bottoms? 👀 do they switch? Please give your thesis on this apparently very contentious topic ❤

okay okay china, actively stirring the hornet's nest lmao

okay this is kind of a two part answer bc for me it kinda depends on when it all started i guess.

if we're talking weecest/teenchesters i do think it would be sammy bottoming purely bc dean would be more experienced and possibly more comfortable with pushing them further than sam would be. that said, it is probably the only way i will ever voluntarily go for top dean lol

bc the truth is, my heart LIVES for subby bottom dean. he likes being told what to do, he likes lying back and letting someone go to town on him, he obviously loves following orders. pillow princess dean 5eva.

now, sam i can see going either way. obviously, that boy Fucks, but i can totes see him bottoming and enjoying the fuck out of it as well (and since pegging is currently still on my mind: sure, gimme jess or ruby fucking him, he'll take it like a champ). thing is, he also knows how to get dean to do what he wants, so he's not above putting on the ol' puppy dog eyes to get dean to service top every once in a while when that itch gets too strong. but mostly, he gets to top dean, and part of him still revels at the thrill of doing that to his big brother, of being in charge of his big brother's pleasure like that when, for the longest time, dean had been in charge of him.

#wincest wednesday #look at you making me think about sam

[chronicfandombrain]

Byler vs Destiel (Why I have hope for canon Byler after getting baited by Destiel)

Why compare Byler and Destiel at all? 

So, the first thing you’re probably wondering about is why the heck I’m writing this meta in the first place. Stranger Things and Supernatural are wildly different shows, aren’t they? Well, yes, yes they are. However, there are some key similarities that I’ve noticed surrounding Destiel and Byler now that ST season 4 has come out and Byler has gotten big. I thought it would be interesting to explain my reasoning in continuing to hope for canon Byler despite having been thoroughly let down by Spn in regards to Destiel.

2. First things first: a quick rundown of Destiel. 

If you’ve watched spn you can skip this part. I’m assuming most Bylers have not watched Spn because Stranger Things is a widely popular and acclaimed show while Spn is… well, let’s say more of a cult classic with a niche audience. Supernatural is a Monster of the Week show created by Eric Kripke, which originally began airing all the way back in 2005 (I was 2 yrs old.. gotdamn) and ran for 15 seasons total, ending in 2020. Destiel is the wildly popular ship of repressed bisexual monster hunter Dean Winchester and gay angel Castiel. If you were on Tumblr anytime around November 5th of 2020 you probably remember Spn fans freaking the hell out and filling everyone’s dash with memes, and you have probably received some sort of important news about world events in this delightful format.

This was a result of the airing of Season 15 Episode 18, aptly titled Despair, in which Cas confessed his love for Dean and then immediately fricken died, never again to be seen on screen. Many fans (myself included) were hopeful that Cas would come back in the finale and Dean would reciprocate the confession. That… did not happen. Instead Dean got impaled on a giant nail and died, without his love for Cas ever being confirmed. Without even his bisexuality ever being confirmed (despite bi Dean having been hinted at before Cas even joined the show). Fans were understandably upset about this.

3. Okay, so, what are these aforementioned similarities between Destiel and Byler?

There are some obvious ones, like Spn and ST both being monster shows, but mostly I’ve noticed some Dean & Mike parallels, Will & Cas parallels, and parallels in the ways the ship is perceived by fans. To be clear, I don't think these parallels are intentional on the part of the Duffers, but I think they're worth examining anyway. I’m going to start with Dean and Mike, because that’s where I feel some of the similarities are the strongest. In the interest of comparison, I’m going to look at this through the lens of bi Mike, although obviously gay Mike is a valid interpretation with a good amount of evidence as well (see the byler google slides). Some strong arguments for Destiel and Byler on the sides of Dean and Mike are their reactions when their best friends are in danger, missing, or dead/presumed dead.

(Dean looking for Cas after he goes missing in purgatory)

Okay, I can't find any gifs for this one which is criminal tbh, but just pretend you're looking at a bunch of gifs of season 1 Mike telling everyone over and over that they need to look for Will/find Will.

(Dean falling to his knees after Cas dies in front of him)

(Mike when they pull the fake Will out of the quarry)

(Dean tells Cas he needs him while Cas is being controlled by heaven and forced to attack Dean, this breaks Cas out of his brainwashing)

(Mike tells Will asking him to be his best friend is the best thing he's ever done, interrupting Will's possession enough that he can get a message out)

(Dean reuniting with Cas after he goes missing in purgatory)

(Mike reuniting with Will after he goes missing in S1)

Seeing some similarities? The deeply repressed bi character who only expresses how important their friend is to them when something terrible is happening or has happened? Also, frustratingly, when said friend is possessed or missing and can't hear them. (Yes, both Cas and Will have been possessed and then brought to their senses by a coded love confession from the other half of their respective ships…)

Beyond that, much of the speculation around Mike and Dean by fans comes from body language, specifically micro-expressions and lip-glances. 

(This one's a destiel classic)

(the tension is so bad in this one that it's lowkey uncomfortable to look at)

(the infamous triple take)

Mike and Dean are also the characters who are more widely perceived as straight by the general audience, with hints to their bisexuality (or possibly homosexuality in Mike’s case) being subtle enough that you only really catch them if you’re looking for it.

(ah, bi lighting.)

(the one way sign pointing to the closet in Mike's room)

(Dean panics in bisexual)

(okay Mike no one said you weren't....)

Let’s move on to Cas and Will. These are characters who are canonically gay (or bi maybe for Cas?? Idk they’re pretty unclear about it in the show! Most people say gay so I’m going with that for this post) and canonically in love with their best friends. These are the characters who are more obvious to the GA, and are often painted in a light of unrequited love. Their love is also shown in a more narrative way, mostly through intentional writing choices rather than through body language and things that could be chalked up to acting choices. Cas’s love for Dean comes through very clearly in his character arcs, as he betrays heaven for him (multiple times) and allies with their enemies in an attempt to protect him (multiple times) and sacrifices himself for him (multiple times). 

(The angel Metatron taunting Cas)

(Cas leaves Dean in purgatory to protect him)

(Cas sacrificing himself to the Empty (superhell) to save Dean. Yes the Empty looks like black goo and not a tunnel of fire.)

Will’s character arc in season 4 is pretty much entirely about his feelings for Mike, and specifically him, you could say, sacrificing his feelings for Mike in order to make Mike happy by keeping him and El together.

(pain)

The natural conclusion that you would come to for the narrative arcs of both of these characters, suffering in supposed unrequited love, is a resolution in which their love is returned. However, this didn’t happen in Supernatural. So why do I think it will happen in Stranger Things? 

Looking at all of these similarities felt disheartening to me at first. I only got into the Byler after the end of season 4, and I was almost immediately struck by how familiar the situation felt to me. It was incredibly reminiscent of being a Supernatural fan during the airing of Season 15: reading meta after meta filled with evidence for a Destiel endgame, everyone hyped up and so convinced it would go canon, people jokingly calling themselves delusional for expecting the natural resolution of a story-line that had been dangled in front of them for eleven long seasons. But I have a lot of faith in Byler, even after being let down by the Spn finale, and here’s why.

4. Main character Will Byers vs fan favorite Castiel

Are you ready for even more supernatural lore? Again, you can just skim this if you’ve watched spn. The character of Castiel is introduced in Supernatural Season 4 Episode 1: Lazarus Rising. Funny thing about Cas—he was only supposed to be on the show for like three episodes! Cas’s story-line was actually supposed to go to another angel character, Anna. Due to some actor drama or something Cas replaced Anna and got her story-line. And fans LOVED Cas, so much so that when they tried to permanently kill him off in Season 7, ratings dropped so low that they decided to bring him back. The interesting thing about Cas and Destiel is that it was pretty much all accidental, at least at first. It was much less about genuine writing choices, and much more about insane actor chemistry and casual ship-baiting by the writers. Destiel was a ship that started off without much canon basis, but over the next eleven seasons became more and more textually supported until the writers had pretty much no choice except to address it. This was due to a lot of things: changing show-runners, changing writers, and the actors themselves becoming more open to the possibility of the ship. If you want a full explanation of how Supernatural accidentally trapped themselves into telling an epic gay love story, I would highly recommend this video:

However, despite the wild popularity of Cas and Destiel, Cas never gained the true main character status of Dean and Sam (Dean’s brother). While Dean and Sam both appear in almost every episode of Spn, Cas disappears for episodes at a time and often only appears for the particularly plotty sections. While I think the changing writers and show-runners allowed for Cas to become more valued in later seasons, his character often gets sidelined in favor of the brothers. 

So, let’s now contrast this with Will Byers. Will is definitely one of the main characters of Stranger Things—his disappearance is the inciting incident of the series, and his possession is one of the biggest plot points of season two. While he has been less central to seasons three and four, there is always time devoted in the show to his character, and for the past two seasons his arc has mainly dealt with him struggling as a closeted gay teenager in the 80’s, and him feeling sidelined by Mike with his relationship with El. Unlike Castiel, Will was always meant to be a main character, possibly the main character when you consider that the Duffers originally planned to kill El in the season 1 finale. Will being gay was also planned from the beginning, with hints going all the way back to the first episode. Stranger Things is also known for including a lot of foreshadowing, references, and parallels for watchful viewers to pick up on and analyze. Nothing about Will’s character is accidental, and that gives me hope that he will have a satisfying conclusion to his character arc. Which leads me to my second point—

5. Stranger Things is a really good show. Supernatural… is a mixed bag

To be honest, Supernatural is a mess of a show. It changed show-runners like every four seasons, the writers got switched out a lot and the quality of the writing varies drastically between episodes, plot points were recycled, narrative and character arcs were abandoned, everyone dies and comes back to life multiple times, half of it is shitty filler, and like twice a season there’s an episode so incredibly good it keeps you coming back for more. In short: Supernatural is made for TV. Now, I don’t want to get into my personal vendetta against long-running network television shows, but basically I think that having to crank out a new episode of a show every week for years reduces the quality of that show drastically. Things work best when they have a clear beginning and ending, and they know how they’re going to progress from point A to point B. Not to get off topic, but this is why I absolutely love the Mike Flanagan Netflix shows (Hill House, Bly Manor, Midnight Mass), and why I’m actually glad that Hannibal was forced to wrap up in three seasons. The longer a show is, the more chances it has to fuck up the characters and the plot progression. Stranger Things is right in that sweet spot—I think that it will tell exactly the story it wants to tell, no more and no less. Stranger Things is generally a much higher quality show than Supernatural, and I trust it much more to properly handle its characters and relationships. Supernatural, in my opinion at least, made a massive mistake in killing all the main characters in the finale when all of them had pretty much spent 15 seasons suffering and struggling to survive. The only satisfying conclusion to those characters would have been to see them finally allowed to be happy and peaceful and together, regardless of Destiel. I seriously doubt that the Duffers would ever make this mistake, especially as they have already stated that they’re not Game of Thrones and don’t intend to go grimdark and kill all their main characters. I think that Stranger Things intends to give the characters (and audience) what they want—I think at the end of the day the ST kids will all end up happy and safe. And the way they have set this up, there really isn’t a lot of opportunity for happiness for Will without Byler.

My S5 endgame predictions are pretty much: Byler happens, Max wakes up and Lumax get to go on their theater date, El breaks up with Mike and gets to spend more time with Max (the happiest we’ve seen her is with Max), and Dustin has a big brother little brother moment with Steve that will make me cry (I know people think Steve will die in S5 but honestly I think after Eddie there’s no way they would kill Dustin’s big brother figure TWICE, that would be too cruel to his character). I think Stranger Things wants these characters to end up happy, and I trust them to fulfill the narratives that they’ve been building since season one. Will and El as characters have suffered so much, and I don’t think that they will end up in the same crappy patterns they’ve been repeating for seasons now when those patterns obviously need to be broken in order for them to be happy. 

In conclusion: despite the similarities I see between Destiel and Byler, I’m pretty confident that Byler is endgame and will succeed where Destiel (and Spn as a whole) failed, because ST is a well-thought out, high quality show, and Spn was a dearly beloved mess. This is my first time writing meta, so I’m sorry if anything is confusing! I’m also admittedly not the best at media analysis (it did take me four seasons to pick up on Byler), so if any of my fellow Byler scholars would like to chime in and interpret these findings further, that would be very welcome! Thanks for reading! (:

#byler #byler meta #byler vs destiel #long post #Youtube