I just got a comment saying I should have tagged for dom/sub undertones and I'm a little confused. In canon, this guy always bosses his wife around re: doing shit that's healthy for her - napping, drinking water, remembering to eat more than once a day, getting more than 3 hours of sleep - and she lovingly calls him "Boss Man" as a nickname because of it. On some occasions where she's gone more than a day without eating he'll swipe her phone and order her to eat before she gets it back, something she always seems to find endearing. There's a lot of 'I didn't mean to worry you', 'you're worth worrying about, now here's your favorite homemade walnut bread' stuff, all there in canon, just lifted from canon and transplanted into my fic.
Is this dom/sub stuff? I'm aroace so I've never been in a relationship, but I assumed "take care of yourself" "I will but I will call you a silly nickname over it" was regular relationship stuff. Or is it that the frequency of it makes it dom/sub stuff, and I'm just not grasping that because my neurodivergency is making me not read the social cues correctly? I was only recently diagnosed but this has been a problem for a long time, the whole line between normal and abnormal behavior, so I thought I'd ask you. You're much more well-read than I am and know a lot more about shipping dynamics and how they're tagged. I feel like you're an expert whose opinion carries a lot of conclusions-informed-by-knowledge and so your take could help me figure this out.
People who are doms or subs or write them, if you have a guide on this stuff, that'd be cool, too. I want to educate myself more so I know if I should tag something. After all, I can't get my story to people who want to read it if it doesn't show up in the tags they're searching for. Readers aren't mindreaders. It's on me to make sure they can get ahold of the things they're looking for. I just need to work around my own ADHD-addled brain to do it.
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I think this is the usual pattern of demanding silly tags that would only make sense in that reader's own bookmarks.
Yes, caretaking and food control of various kinds can be a part of BDSM. No, your description of canon does not make it sound like this has obvious undertones.
Readers are going to have different interpretations. It's possible that other readers would agree with this one. I have my doubts. I suspect they're projecting. But sure, maybe other people would think there was some of that vibe.
However, if you did not intend the fic to read this way, I would not add the tag. This is not what the fic is about.
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As for what this kind of thing can look like when it is intended as a dom/sub activity, the movie Secretary has a bunch of examples. She calls him on the phone to tell him what her family's dinner looks like that night; he gives her instructions about which things she can eat how much of. The way she acts while making that phone call makes it clear it's an exciting game to her. Another time, he tells her she's not allowed to cut herself anymore: he will provide what she needs.
Even if the characters are being playful, just nagging someone to do basic self care doesn't really come across as this. It's more charged when it's an intentional power exchange thing.
It's more like... hmm... if you and a friend agreed to LARP as characters for a day. Even if you were acting fairly normal and doing things you'd often do anyway, there would be this added extra vibe to it that someone who knew you well could probably detect.
It's not so much about the specific behaviors: it's about the extra meaning those people ascribe to them. If it doesn't seem like the canon characters think of this caretaking any specific way and you, as the fic author, don't see it that way, then I don't think it will generally read as a dom/sub thing to most readers.
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Sorry, just discovered your public knowledge au, its hilarious. I think 'realistically' I like the Only Miraculous wielders & whoever they tell knows version as it could feel a bit less cracky though it'd still beg why they don't bring other heroes in to collectively stomp Gabriel as they know his location. Though that just has me imagining him palming it off on his various rich friends like a hot potato. Anyway two main thoughts:
`1: For the just Holders know AU, Gabriel owns up to his motives right away & almost convinces the kids. Except Fu shows up & reveals that its basically a monkeys paw and more people will die if he makes is wish. Gabriel insists he s smart enough to work around that (He also just doesn't care) but Tikki & Plagg are like, "Literally we have no control over this, it goes to shit every single time, sorry."
In essence, its his ego and control freak nature that mean Gabriel refuses to give up even when he and everyone else know he should quit. Its probably kind of a sad/rough start for Adrien especially, but also leads to very quick positive vibes with Marinette & more direct mentorship.
2: Rogercop be like
Chloe: Well, seeing as you won't do your damn job, how about our classes two super heroes show you up?
Adrien: I am one hundred percent down for that except I can't find Plagg!
Marinette: Ya know I've wanted to try this anyway, Luck Charm! (Gets a Plagg doll with his head snuck in the bracelet) Well that answers that.
Later
Tikki: How did you even get stuck we can phase through soli matter.., Oh this is interesting and maybe concerning.
Chloe: What can it do magic, is it a Miraculous?
Plagg: Well its tied to a Miraculous, where'd you find this?
Chloe: Back of my mothers cupboard?
Andre: You aren't meant to have that (Tries to snatch)
Chloe: Why, what is it!? Can it do magic?
Andre: If by magic you mean mind control you- don't break it you'll explode!
Chloe: Why do you own a mind controlling bracelet that only works on me and kills me if it breaks and why was it in a fucking dust covered pile of half forgotten trash!?
Andre: ... Its your mot- Gabriel's fault, blame him, now I have a meeting to get to bye! (Runs away)
Butterflies appear
Adrien: Dad, glad you could... Make it.
Gabriel: Well I am here now, also the Amok's treatment is very much 'not' my fault, it is like that because your parents don't love you.
Adrien: DAD!
Gabriel: I am a magical empath son, I know it to be true, your mother and I were much more careful with your Amok & sealed it away so it could never be used against you or damaged. Those two tossed it in a cupboard once they realized it couldn't just rewrite a babies personality, or any personality, to not need things like food or affection, if they hadn't already made the announcement they'd have probably smashed it or given it away.
Gabriel: By it I mean Chloe.
Chloe: Oh... (Uses the Amok to turn herself 'off' IE pass out)
Gabriel: Dammit, I was hoping the truth would cause her to explode in a rage never before seen and become my most powerful Akuma! I can't even use this self destructive self loathing, she's too depressed to even transform! (Leaves)
Honestly this started out kind of funny then I made myself sad.
Gabriel: I wonder if I should mention the sister they had made as a replacement. That one didn't turn out how they wanted either but they did skip the baby phase.
GOD the chaos there.
But also yeah the AU is mostly crack because tbh I can't see an identity reveal happening that doens't immediately lead to an ending one way or another.
But also OOF.
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I'm a multishipper, so when it comes to shipping for me, I don't really take canon dynamics into account anyway. So long as I like both characters, and I think they can work in the context of the story(canon or otherwise), I'm not too picky about ships!
...except for obviously immoral ships. Why the FUCK is Twilight/Celestia so God damn popular?! I won't go on a rant here about how much I despise that pairing and pairings like it, but I wanted to take the chance to make my feelings known about that.
TWILIGHT AND CELESTIA IS POPULAR?!! first i ever heard of it?!?!! disgusting wtf. This shit is ridiculous, how does this even happen
Personaly to me shipping is a lot of how i do writing as well. I'm not gonna waste my time with something with zero ass potential in canon, and foundations on canon are very important to me merely on like. Seeing actual interesting dynamics to work on. (Hell, its even better when the ship is actually canon, you can work on a foundation that is already existant!)' Tis why i dont rly care for crackships, like, the characters have never even met, or suggested ever meeting. Am i supposed to do all the work here? no thanks bro. Give me smth to work with!
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there is, Obviously, fundamentally a difference between headcanon and an analytical reading of text, and treating the two as exactly the same is not only wrong but devalues both, but funnily, i've found people tend to forget that both of these things are the product of referencing our real life experiences and applying them where we see fit to make a more interesting way to interact with media. and you can't just like, forget that it's not JUST about headcanons and meta analysis and whatever, because people in real life also still matter. and in real life, there are different stakes and EXPERIENCES, and those experiences lead to thinking the way we do because that's how you Be a goddamn person, which is why it's ironic is all 😭
like, saying zuko atla has to be cis in order to be "properly" gay in order to be Truly Compelling narratively is fucking ridiculous. textually, zuko is not actually gay. he never was intended to be, he never will be intended to be, he was never even subtextually. the assumption otherwise is already rooted in fantasy, and the tongue in cheek assertion that it isn't, which means it has more credence, is ... dumb? childish? admitting to at least yourself that the things you talk about wrt character analysis aren't the intention of the creator is literally half the point of doing said analysis – you're MEANT to throw away the intended interpretation in order to give it a new life through different keyholes without entirely divorcing itself from the text. (in the same breath, insisting the creator truly meant One Thing when they absolutely would not have/don't care at all, and ignoring that the people who made the piece are going to put their own biases and experiences and background into the media itself and actually MUST be taken into account for things like this is just ... well. Stop That.)
i've personally never been someone to ever claim that The Writers All Along INTENDED to do something that they obviously didn't, like make a character from a 2005 cartoon lgbt+. this doesn't mean that reading doesn't have any substance or cannot possibly hold any meaning, or that it's wrong. if you can't be objective about your own readings what's the damn point... leaning into it being fiction, which changes just by being observed by a different person, is why it's fun or interesting to do in the first place. and yeah there are some basic cookie cutter headcanons people like to fling around, and there can be criticism for that otherwise, but claiming headcanons themselves AREN'T an offshoot of this way of thinking is fucking stupid. like it's plain wrong.
our own thoughts on why a character acts, what they do, what their presentation is, why their personality is what it is up to and including their sexuality, gender identity, religion, JOB, whatever, are made to fill the gaps the text can't or won't provide, and in the case of lgbt ones as long as it's not actively harmful (as in like insisting a lesbian character is bi or something) it is literally harmless seeing as it is fairly solidly a "won't", along with a whole bunch of other hc material that usually don't see the light of day on-screen nonstereotypically. people seeing themselves in characters isn't new but more than that, saying that you know this but then pushing it aside because The Analysis Means More when it's Realistic And Plausible is fucking dumb. and rude. bc the entire point of drawing the line of connections this way is how WE see them. being all like "oh well, your own personal identity is still valid otherwise, don't get your feelings hurt bc it doesn't matter," is moot if you've already asserted there's only One real way to be... plausible 🤨. which is to be NORMAL ! duh.
like, the read that zuko IS gay (and cis) relies on extracting parts through the lens of our own gay perceptions and is why cishet fans don't pick up on it, but you can ask pretty much any other lgbt fan and they'll agree. zuko's narrative arc IS compelling with the read that he is gay, from the way he is ostracised by his family, neglected and abused, the "punishment" he receives and then continues to become his own warden of, the order of his death and the banishment itself, sozin criminalising homosexuality, his inability to connect with others especially his own age, his inability to seamlessly interact with girls, his literal externalised viewing of seeing himself as someone with Two Sides, them being good vs evil, realising he can change the damn world through love and acceptance, striving for peace, being the face of change for his nation, relearning what it means to be who he is once he is free from his past, the shame and humiliation rituals, the claim of his father that he is worthless as a prince and person, AND MORE... and i cannot express enough here how fucking little it matters if he's specifically gay or WHAT THE HELL EVER 😭.
to claim in no small way that it's impossible for a trans person, or a bisexual person, or anyone else lgbt, could ever line up his narrative with their own personal one is so beyond ridiculous it gives me a headache. no, "plausibly", i don't think zuko is like, transmasc. yes, plausibly, he could be gay. plausibly, he could be amab nonbinary but no one seems to actually give a fuck about that for some reason (i wonder!). nothing would change in both cases, because he's not actually either, so i really don't see the point in making fun of or being frustrated by one to lift up the other because you want cisgender boot soles to brush the back of your throat THAT badly. the implausibility of thinking any way about a fictional character should be taken into account to an extent, sure, but at the end of the day neither of us are doing anything truly worthwhile, and no one is claiming that it's the intent from the beginning to say otherwise, so what's the point here. why are we doing this. let's go skip in a meadow together before i kill someone with this rock.
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