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potteresque-ire · 3 years

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More ask answer about Word of Honour (山河令, WoH) and the so-called “Dangai 101 phenomenon” under the cut ~ with all the M/M relationships shown on screen, does it mean improved acceptance / safety for the c-queer community?

Due to its length (sorry!), I’ve divided the answer into 3 parts: 1) Background 2) Excerpts from the op-eds 3) Thoughts This post is PART 2 💛. As usual, please consider the opinions expressed as your local friendly fandomer sharing what they’ve learned, and should, in no ways, be viewed as necessarily true. :)

(TW: homophobic, hateful speech quoted)

The following are three opinion pieces published by state-controlled media re: Dangai and WoH:

O1) Published on 2021/03/04, in Shanghai Observer 上觀新聞

8.6分爆款武俠劇《山河令》背后，是90后愛看的江湖 Behind the 8.6-score Wuxia drama WoH is the Jianghu loved by those born after 1990

[Pie note: the 8.6 score refers to the score WoH got from the popular TV and film review site, Douban]

O2) Published on 2021/03/16, in China Comment 半月談:

國產電視劇掀起「耽改」熱：「腐文化」出圈，青少年入坑 The Rise of Dangai in C-dramas: “Rot Culture” exits Circle, Youth fell into the Ditch

and its related editorial:

「耽改劇」盛行？警惕對「腐文化」進行無底線炒作和過度消費 Dangai Dramas Prevailing? Be alert to the Uncurbed Hyping and Excessive Consumption of “Rot Culture”

[Pie Note: “Exiting the Circle” (出圈) and “Falling into the Ditch” (入坑) are both fandom vocabularies. “Exiting the circle” refers to something being so famous that it is no longer contained within fandom (the circle) and instead, breaks into public consciousness, mainstream. “Falling into a Ditch” means to fall for a fandom so hard that one cannot crawl their way out it. For example, c-turtles commonly refers to their joining the YiZhan fandoms as ditch falling, followed by being “hammered to the bottom of the ditch” by Gg and Dd’s candies.

“Rot” 腐 refers to the same rot as in fujoshi 腐女 and “rot selling” 賣腐 described in PART 1.]

O3) Published on 2021/04/07, in 光明日報 Enlightenment Daily

耽美作品改编盛行带偏大众审美 Popularity of Dangai Dramas leads the Public’s Aesthetic Astray

To summarise first,

* Article O1 was very light on the characterisation of Danmei—the terms Danmei and Dangai never even appeared in the article. It focused, instead, on WoH’s Wuxia elements, including the beauty of its presentation—much like People Daily’s review of TU focused on the drama’s aesthetics, including its world view. The relationship between Zhou Zishu and Wen Kexing was never mentioned, not even garnering a description such as 摯友 (“close friend”) as LWJ and WWX did. The article did point out that the drama was catering to a women audience.

* Article O2a (the opinion piece) and O2b (the editorial) are about Danmei and Dangai, collectively as the subculture they named “Rot Culture” (腐文化). No drama names are mentioned (in reading Chinese news, it’s important to note whether the critiqued target is named or not; the former (點名批評) is considered significantly harsher). The article, as hinted by the word “rot” in its title, leaned heavily towards characterising Danmei and Dangai by the traditional BL characterisation. Article O2a was also the only article out of the four that explicitly addressed homosexuality. Rather than addressing the queer elements in Danmei/Dangai as queer, however, the article argued the genres could turn their young audience queer.

* Article O3 is also about Danmei and Dangai as the “Rot Culture” subculture, without the naming of any dramas. This article is notable for its association of the genres and the state’s concern with the “feminisation” of Chinese men.

Based on these op-eds, the state is characterising Danmei and Dangai predominantly as characterisation 2 — traditional BL, women’s fantasy. They recognised the psychological need behind the popularity of the genres among their (het) women audience, and the tone, is overall, of understanding and approval:

One of the cores of Dangai is the pursuit of “beauty”. The “double male leads” in Dangai dramas score sufficiently high beauty points to become the party to be defined, to be gazed, to be consumed. It is a counterattack to the male gaze. In addition, such “double male leads” enjoying equal relationship, admiring each other and fighting together shoulder-to-shoulder, also reflects the ideals of women towards relationships.

In the visual world of Dangai, two beautiful men respecting and treasuring each other, progressing together shoulder-to-shoulder, not only fits with women’s ideal model of relationships, but also also create wide, yet-to-be filled emotional spaces for women’s unstoppable imagination to flex. Such relationships have less considerations of reality and self-interest, and thus appear to be more pure.

However, these opinion pieces have also made clear that the state saw the queer elements surrounding the genre, and its opinion of them is much more … reserved, especially when they cross the fiction / reality line and become the focus of the promotion of the dramas via the actors, who straddle that fiction / reality line.

Due to the lengths of these articles, I’m only translating the notable “chunks” in each of them—the “chunks” that connect the genres with queerness. I’m deliberately keeping these passages as “chunks”—ie, without removing sentences in the middle—to highlight the state’s logic in making the connection.

From O2a: 國產電視劇掀起「耽改」熱：「腐文化」出圈，青少年入坑 The Rise of Dangai in C-dramas: “Rot Culture” exits Circle, Youth fell into the Ditch

“M/M CP”, “Beautiful Men Economy”, topics surrounding this market—today, nobody bets an eye anymore at “selling the rot” being the industrial phenomenon. “Sell the rot” is to sell “rot culture”, with “rot culture” being the subculture for the audience’s imagination, of M/M (ambiguous) love stories for major content.

Such subculture, if confined within its fandoms, may be harmless. However, if it is to be adapted into TV dramas in significant scale, if it is to break through the subculture circles and enter the realm of general public entertainment, then one must take caution of its bad influence, especially to inexperienced youths.

With the established review system for web and TV dramas, production teams often remove the “romantic plot line” between the two male leads in the original Danmei canon and display “brotherhood love” in the TV drama, while “playing edge ball” to provide their audience with room for imagination. In the subsequent promotion and marketing, however, the two male actors may have to “sell the rot” as well.

[Pie note: I’m translating 打擦边球 literally as “playing edge ball” as this is a very commonly used term in discussions of China’s censorship. It means to step as close to the forbidden line as possible without crossing it, to take advantage of loopholes.]

Author of the article “On the Danmei-ization of Chinese Dramas” believes that, in recent years, CPs “selling the rot” , the practice of which is rooted in Danmei culture, have become a hit in the Chinese TV industry. TV dramas with Danmei elements entice their audience to create CPs around the leads of the dramas; they make use of the fervour generated by the discussion topic to achieve high viewership.

In recent years, academics have already expressed concern and investigated the influence of Danmei culture on the youth’s gender awareness, their opinions of marriage etc. For example, the article “Sexual Orientation of Some Youths in Hunan Province and Analysis of their Potential Causes” investigated the sexual orientation of 1,260 youths in the province and discovered that: among males, 2.9% self-identified as homosexuals, 4.9% bi-sexuals, 12.4% unknown; among females, 2.4%, 12.4%, 14.3% respectively. 37.5% of the people knew about Danmei or Doujin (同人; fandom), among which 32.3% indicated they “liked” it. 11.9% indicated that they longed for the homosexual romance in such works.

The author of the article analysed that, students who knew about Danmei or Doujin were more likely to report bisexuality or unknown sexual orientation. This demonstrated the influence of such culture on the sexual orientation of youths.

( Cartoon from O2a, titled “Learning to be “cool” 學酷 )

From O2b:「耽改劇」盛行？警惕對「腐文化」進行無底線炒作和過度消 Dangai Dramas Prevailing? Be alert to the Uncurbed Hyping and Excessive Consumption of “Rot Culture”

Not to be overlooked is this: the severe reality of “Rot culture” exiting the circle and becoming immensely popular is urgently awaiting the entire society’s alert and attention. Objectively speaking, many Dangai works are not aspiring to positively, proactively guide and display Danmei culture, but only to set up attention-grabbing gimmicks, the purpose of which is solely to “sell the rot”. Not a small number of Dangai’s plots are illogical. Worse, in order to attract attention and satisfy the “taste” of fans, some production companies are forcibly selling “M/M CPs”, conducting “bound” promotion [Pie note: as in bound by CP pairing] and embarrassing interactions [Pie note: as in, getting the actors to interact in a suggestively romantic way] , “playing the edge ball” [Pie note: as explained above] to generate personalities, consuming “Rot Culture” without a bottom line. These poor marketing tactics not only hurt the interest of Danmei audience, but interfere with the online environment and its order. The indulgence of radical language, moreover, challenges and affects mainstream values. These bad influences must be paid attention to and supervised.

From O3) 耽美作品改编盛行带偏大众审美 Popularity of Dangai Dramas leads the Public’s Aesthetic Astray

In addition to the explosion of the number of Dangai dramas, many dramas that are not originally Dangai are attaching themselves to the Dangai genre, by setting up double male leads, by playing up the suggestive atmosphere between male characters in their plot lay out. Some variety shows make use of the plot setup, the post-editing, the promotion of topics etc, to forcibly pair up their male guests for the purpose of hype and attention. This vulgar custom of “playing edge ball” as a means to tempt, to lead the audience into indulging in fantasies [Pie note: sexual fantasies implied by the idiom 想入非非] have spread from visual media production to the areas of promotion and marketing. Some interviews, magazine photoshots, short video production have also joined the bandwagon of borrowing the popularity of Danmei culture. They use all sorts of sensitive topics to tease and excite the public, tirelessly, happily guiding the fans to overanalyse Dangai dramas and even, the relationship between the actors of Dangai dramas. With the push of such gimmicks, Danmei is reaching the public through multiple channels, gathering popularity and turning into a phenomenon.

From O3) 耽美作品改编盛行带偏大众审美 Popularity of Dangai Dramas leads the Public’s Aesthetic Astray

Men with delicate looks, with traditionally feminine (soft and reserved) quality, are often sought after by the rot women (fujoshis). There has been a recent, popular saying in the industry: to find out if a male star is popular or not, find out if there are fans calling him “wife”. Artists with a tough image often do not make it big, but explode in popularity once they switch to a soft beauty style. Netizens have teased “Ten years as a tough man known by none; one day as a beauty known by all”. This take on aesthetics is influencing visual media creation and entertainment production to a certain extent. Watching from a distance, more and more traffic-generating stars look like “cream young men” [Pie note: 奶油小生, from 奶油 “cream” + 小生, “the role of young men in traditional Chinese opera”, is an old-fashioned term traditionally used to describe young, good-looking actors who often presented as pale, mild-mannered, scholarly]. Some entertainment venture capital picks “flower men” as their choice for leads regardless of the TV dramas/films’ subject matter, follows the young (male) idol path. Commercial products and ads extend their offers to “little fresh meat” [Pie note: 小鲜肉 is the nickname for young (male) idols]. Even cosmetics, which have conventionally been thought of as women-only products, are no longer asking only women stars to be their spokespeople. Feminine beauty can exist, but all things shouldn’t be taken to the extreme. As “flower men” overflow on screen, masculine, tough men are reducing in numbers. This may counter the basic rules of art creation, and disrupt the development of diverse social aesthetics.

Any product produced by the mind, in the process of production, is also producing minds that will accept it, consume it. Audience of Dangai include not only adults, but also not-too-mature youths who pursue “Rot Culture” as a fashionable trend. In particular, as the aesthetics of men in the eyes of young women turn even more feminine, such change can indirectly influence the cognition of young men, cause the young men to subconsciously shift their own gender expression closer to the feminine beauty anticipated by women. Most Dangai stories are far removed from reality; some young audience nonetheless mix them up with real life, develop biased understanding such as “only love that doesn’t treat matrimony and reproduction as destinations is true love”. Although Daigai is often made “Danmei-less”, in that the romantic relationship between the two male leads are re-written as brothers and zhiji (confidants), the canon and the Rot Culture behind it still hides large amounts of pornographic, violent content, including biased, unhealthy perspectives on gender, and un-scientific, even wrong biological knowledge. If such content isn’t given restrictions, it will seriously mislead the values and self-fulfilment of the young.

PART 1 PART 2 <-- YOU ARE HERE PART 3

#pie metas #yizhan #bjyx

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total-ass · 3 years

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leonard does not deserve nearly the amount of hate that he gets. i’m tired of seeing leonard slander every day in the tag, i’m tired of seeing my king in the bottom of every tier list. i’ve seen him put below characters like amy and beth and stephanie who literally ruined every scene they were in. on what planet is leonard worse then an abuser or a fujoshi?

leonard has a lot of great things about him. for starters he’s one of the few nerdy characters that’s doesn’t wear glasses which is important...in a way. this fandom has an apparent “thing” for nerds with characters like noah and cody and harold and being popular. and yet, canonically nerdy characters like sam or leonard get little to no appreciation. it’s like this fandoms only interpretation of a nerd is conventionally attractive/white/skinny person oh, so you like nerds so much until they don’t look like they’re straight out of a tiktok house?

people say that he’s useless and annoying, ok and? the majority of total drama characters are useless and annoying. only 4-5 characters a season ever actually try to win. total drama fans are more forgiving on white characters being useless and annoying compared to their melaninated counterparts because they see the “”potential”” in them. that’s why people are so quick to stan staci or ezekial for...existing? but never consider characters like b or beardo or justin or leonard.

leonard was robbed twice in a row because fresh thinks poc are disposable unless thier arc revolves around the mustiest white boy imaginable. leonard had just as much potential as ezekiel and yet no one talks about it because this fandom actively ignores characters that aren’t white. ridonculous race was at least a few months after pahkitew iirc? they could of shown how much he’s matured since then, they could of given him a real motivation to win, they could of expanded his relationship with tammy; are they dating, are they just close friends? does one attempt to keep the other grounded in reality? how does the rest of the cast react to them? they could of had a character arc about realizing they don’t actually have powers and how to grow from there but since they weren’t a toxic couple with a comphet plot line, fresh immediately disposed of them. and no one cares because leonard isn’t cody-colored.

i’m not saying leonard should of won pahkitew or ridonculous race by any means, i’m not sure the world is ready for that much leonard, (personally i am but i know most total drama fans are cowards) but, you can’t act like it’s not a little suspicious that characters like him, katie, b and beardo were all first boots (with leonard being first boot twice) while the rest of the people of color that made it past the 5th episode were forced into the worst “”romance”” plotlines imaginable. (except for maybe dj, but he still got dealt really shitty plots for no reason >:/) if leonard had hooked up with sugar or if tammy was white i guarantee that fresh would of kept him around much longer.

i know only 5 people actually care for pahkitew but jesus, the lack of leonard art is appalling. leonard easily had one of the cutest designs in the show. i genuinely want to kiss him on the lips, he’s so adorable. that lanky man must truely be a wizard, cause he cast a spell on my heart, i can see what sugar saw in him. however, the only characters people are interested in drawing from the pahkitew cast are jasmine, shawn, sammy, scarlett and um...dave :/ (im not trying to shit on anyones favorite character but like..dave? the incel? ,,.really? :/) and surprise, surprise, 90 percent of that jasmine and dave art is ship art, with a white person. shocker :/. why does no one ship leonard and dave or something? this fandom loves shipping characters that hate each other so much. oh wait i know why, cause this fandom is repulsed by things that don’t involve white twinks. that’s why crack ships like dundie are universally praised to this day while iconic ships like notie are forgotten. (only real ones remember 2008 notie smh)

now for the record, i’m not saying hating leonard automatically makes you racist. i’ve seen a lot of people come in here and claim that not liking dave or sierra or cameron or whatever poc makes you inherently racist. while [white] total drama fans tend to use more explicitly derogatory language in regards to characters of color they don’t like (ex: the way gwanon talks about courtney vs. the way they talk about duncan despite hating both of them) but the difference between leonard and those other people is that leonard is actually well written and doesn’t suck. he only had positive qualities. leonard literally did nothing wrong and he gets so much hate for what??leonard didn’t actively hurt anyone, leonard didn’t commit any crimes, leonard didn’t fetishize someone’s mental illness. so i can’t help but side eye people that say hate leonard..it feels like they simply hate to see a nerdy black non binary wizard winning.

anyway, leonard deserves the entire world and i’m tired of people not recognizing it. so leonard antis ask yourself, why do you hate leonard so much? he’s just a funny wizard boy. and before you ask, yes i sent this is in as my college application.

#total drama #td #tdpi #tdrr #td leonard #td tammy #long post #...wow

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avenger-hawk · 3 years

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Hey hawk, did you observe a pattern among people who participate in Woke-ism culture, they seem to have similar "traits" and "personality"? Dislike the "straight" orientation (usually identify themselves as gay/lesbian/bi and brags they are LGBT every second), they seem to think gender identity is a personality trait etc therefore "I'm holier than thou because I list myself as she/he/they/it". I bet they are gonna scream at me for being whatever "phobic" just because of this post lol

*clears throat* yeah they gonna scream at you but they can’t scream at me because it’s been a year that I am in an lgbt relationship soooo xD

Ofc I noticed this kind of behavior, these woke ppl really like be ‘different’ and tbh the thing I find more irritating is when they define themselves ‘autistic’ or ‘asperger’ or ‘adhd’ whathever other mental illness/condition, because these are serious things that should be diagnosed by a specialist and not an online tests, and usually ppl who have a real problem are not so incredibly vocal about it. Sure they don’t brag with it....”but I don’t have money to take a test and my parents don’t let me!” they say? yeah. could be. but it also could be that you just wanna look special and since you’re socially anxious or shy or just a b*tch, you like to play rude and then justify yourself with those labels, and if someone dares tell you you’re a piece of shit you can call them ableist lol

Same for race or country. Not taking anything away from populations/countries/cultures/religions that have been oppressed, but sometimes I cringe cause some ppl try so hard to fit in this. Like, at some point 99% of populations were invaded by others and oppressed, and I’m sorry for welsh ppl, to just name one (no offense it’s the first that came to my mind cause I read a post recently lol) but if this continues we’re gonna have to seek justice for the victims of the vikings’ raids lolol

Anyway, back to what you were saying. I partly get that lgbt ppl are vocal about what they are bc maybe they can’t tell their families or friends, and they use social media as outlets. but like you said, your personality is not defined by who you f*ck and/or love (It’s not even defined by the fiction you like, actually, but they think so). So while I understand ppl describe themselves in their profile and specify their gender identity and sexuality, for me it’s cringey when they take it too far. Like when they start with all the labels ever, or they make combinations...demisexual panromantic/asexual demiromantic/trans nonbinary aroace spectrum...sounds like a competition of who’s less ordinary. Bonus points if they also add race and illness. Bonus points if they pretend they’re experts and activist and they shit on ppl who ship something or speak of top/bottom bc they’re fetishizing gay mlm/wlw and how dare they, dirty cishets (cause Anon, straight is a too banal word lol).

(also...not to offend ‘aroace’ ppl out there but...when someone is like 12...couldn’t it be that they’re just...too young for caring about sex/love? asking for a friend lolol)

I mean, tumblr has a lot of lgbt ppl and it’s cool, and I know it’s hard to live as an lgbt person cause you can’t do what het ppl do normally, like kissing in public or holding hands or writing cute posts on fb bc someone might bitch or be even worse, so this creates a bitterness and aggressiveness on social media I guess, especially here where minorities are the majority lol. And I too, on my personal blog, occasionally ranted about things like internalized homophobia and queerbaiting, but only very rarely lol and no one paid attention to me, guess I am not lgbt enough hahahah

But, it’s stupid to use sexuality labels as a shield to shit on ppl and then call them --phobic when they react. It actually happened to me a couple of years ago, I wrote something about bottom Sasuke and this self defined aromantic+asexual+autistic+gay american dude attacked me for fetishizing gays. Back then I was in a relationship with a guy so for him I was only a boring straight person I guess, a gross fujoshi who dared like mlm haha. fuck him. If I were the same type of person as him I would have pulled the oppressed card, I could have attacked him reminding him that his country treated italian immigrants like animals, and that they had this veeeery big problem of being unsure about our ‘race’ so in their papers they often wrote ? cause they couldn’t understand if we were poc or not...but it would have been kinda off topic and I cartainly don’t waste time talking about me to ppl I don’t even trust to be what they say.

Also because I was raised by parents who were very politically involved, so I remember them doing activism, like, getting out of the house, going to protests, doing volunteering, even taking me along when I was little. So even tho now everything happens online first, and even tho posts can spread awareness and change ppl’s minds, I still don’t trust when I see those blogs full of angry woke activism, because they seem fake and even those ppl seem fake. It’s easy to scream for justice from a keyboard, in a comfortable house. It’s less easy to protest in the cold, risking to have problems with the police, the government, the pandemic, whatever else.

It’s irritating that wokies want to take the right to like smth in the right way or whatever, telling everyone else who don’t fit in the minority group that they can’t like the thing. Idk, I just wish ppl were like in Eastern Asian fandoms, not making everything about themselves, being open minded enough for whatever ‘different’ thing whether they are into it or not, and if they’re not ignoring it only.

And I do get wanting to fit the minority, as a teenager I was veery punk/gothic, depending on the moment, and I never fit in the majority opinions or habits anyway. And I was kind of fluid with my identity and sexuality, but silly me, I kept it for myself, even tho I discussed with those who insulted lgbt ppl and I wrote stuff where everyone is bisexual by default, thinking that it was how people were born before society conditioned them...I could have bragged but I had no idea about ‘fluid’ or ‘pan’, silly me.

I am so irritated at everything, like the words they use, even the english language that is not mine, is getting on my nerves because it’s the vehicle for their crap, but these periodically trending words are disgusting like these ppl to me.

I migth have gone out of topic again lol.

#replies &co #fanon and fandom stuff #kinda #lol this gonna make me lose followers #couldn't care less I hate fake ppl #Anonymous

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grosscoldtea · 5 years

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Here’s the Tea: Why Taako, Kravitz, and Taakitz are Both Overrated and Toxic af

Look, I like TAZ just as much as the next person, but the fandom needs to calm down with the dynamic between Taako and Kravitz.

For those who are fortunate enough not to be aware of how the fandom portrays the fandom, I’ll give you some background. Because of his past, the fandom shows the wizard Taako as a meek, weak, broken man who feels nothing but anxiety and depression, lamenting his terrible past with (who the fandom claims is) an abusive ex-boyfriend Sazed. Kravitz, on the other hand, is a strong, unbreakable, man with a will and mental health as strong as carbon steel. You can see already how they fandom likes to pair these two up, obviously. Taako is the tiny bunny, cowering in the corner and Kravitz is the therapy machine with hot cocoa and a blanket in hand to attend to Taako’s every need.

Please don’t get me wrong -- I’m not saying that Taakitz is all bad. Nor is it only about Taako and his mental illness(es). But the majority of the fandom constantly floods this relationship with Taako’s problems, like it’s something to be proud of. Just go on AO3 or wattpad or wherever else and you’ll see what I’m talking about. The trope is so overused and romanticized and glamorized and twisted in such a way that makes Taako’s problems the only focus on the relationship.

I wish I could say I liked Taakitz like every other TAZ fan. But I just can’t. The two characters were only showcased a couple times, with very little chemistry, mind you, and just because they’re a MLM couple, the fandom falls head over heels for them. Carey x Killian and Sloane x Hurley, both WLW ships with great chemistry and interesting stories, never got the same large reception as Taakiz did. And I relate that to the large population of “fujoshis,” or yaoi fans, in the TAZ fandom. It’s so much easier to fetishize and thus “love” MLM ships than it is to love WLW ships. Because if this fetishization of their gay relationship, Taakitz became the brand baby for TAZ and all the others fell into oblivion, much to my and many others’ dismay.

Now you’re probably wondering “where the toxicity is in all this?” Don’t worry, it’s there. I’m going to take a sidetrack to discuss “kinning.” Many people in the TAZ community “kin,” or largely relate to, one or more of the characters as a way to cope with things, or maybe just for fun. I’m not saying kinning is bad. It’s really interesting and imo a great coping mechanism. The problem is, however, that some fans kin as Taako, because they relate to how the fandom portrays him, as I discussed earlier. It’s a slippery slope of merely relating to him, to replicating all his problems because one feels they have to, to truly kin with him. If the fandom portrayed taako in a more recovery-centric light, there would be no problem at all. But he is the poster child for mental illness -- eating disorders, self harm, suicidal ideation, PTSD, OCD, BPD, depression, anxiety, just to name a few of the mental illnesses the fandom speculates Taako has.

One with PTSD may kin as him. If Taako actually showed recovery, that’d be great! However, so many fanfictions, fanart, and headcannons show Taako getting worse and worse, which in turn glamorizes his illnesses. That person who kins as Taako may then see that glamour attributed to Taako’s illnesses as a glamour of their own and thus follow the downward spiral so many in the fandom love to fetishize.

Now that I’ve covered kinning with Taako alone, I can get to how this connects to Taakitz, itself. As I’ve said, Taako is portrayed as meek and mentally ill. But what about Kravitz? He’s strong, the polar opposite of Taako. He’s big and protective and can save Taako from everything, even his mental illness. He’s busy and has a “job,” yet if Taako is having a panic attack or a flashback, he can leave and be there for Taako at the drop of a hat (especially since he has those ultra convenient portal abilities). He is patient and tolerates Taako at his worst, even if he hits and slaps him. At first this seems great! I have depression and anxiety and I know if someone was like that, who could take away all my problems, I’d love that! But unfortunately, NO ONE CAN TAKE AWAY YOUR MENTAL ILLNESS.

The portrayal of Kravitz in this relationship is shown less as a significant other and more of a tool Taako uses to “cure” himself of all his problems. Kravitz is a tool. A therapist. He’s prescription medication that the psychiatrist, Dr. Kravitz, prescribes to Taako to take to feel better. Not only does this grossly exaggerate the tasks that significant others have, it sets unreasonable expectations for those who relate to Taako. Rather than expecting to fight the battle yourself with the SUPPORT of Kravitz, you may expect to have Kravitz fight the battle for you, which is no less than an impossible feat. And the consequences of these exaggerated expectations can be fatal. Say someone who kins as Taako has a significant other (who relates to Kravitz). The “Taako” of relationship may increasingly rely on the “Kravitz,” expecting more and more unrealistic and fanciful things. And what if their Kravitz retaliates? Says “I can’t do this” or “This is too much for me?” The Taako may feel disillusioned if their “Kravitz” can’t save them from their mental illness; rather than trying to recover through therapy or counceling, they rely solely on the role of their significant other as “Kravitz” to cure them. This is a dictionary example of a toxic and codependent relationship.

You can say that Taako also gets help from the Tres Horny Boys, or maybe has a therapist and psychiatrist he sees on the side. But the fandom never shows this. Just as he’s the face of mental illness in the TAZ fandom, he can’t recover or he’ll lose that title. So Taako is only shown to rely on Kravitz. It’s not just for the illusion that Taako’s illnesses are romantic or tragically beautiful, but the Taakitz ship floats almost solely on the base of Care-Taker-Kravitz, and Poor Broken Taako. If the fandom were to make Taako go to anyone else for help and support, the fandom would lose most of the basis of the Taakitz relationship, and thus, they don’t show that. The ship Taakitz is already pretty shallow so why lose the one thing that makes it seemingly substantial?

If Taakitz was portrayed in a more recovery-centric light, if Taako was shown to be focused on his recovery and on interpersonal relationships outside of just Kravitz, if Kravitz was shown as an equal to Taako rather than just a tool, this ship would not be so dangerous. However, because of the fandom’s portrayal of it, it’s toxic. If this is how the fandom will continue to show the dynamic between Taako and Kravitz, no one should attempt to replicate it. It’s unhealth and downright dangerous for either party involved.

If you can relate to what I said about Taako, please get help. There’s more to life than just mental illness and as difficult as recovery is, it’s so much better than whatever you’re currently dealing with.

If you relate to Kravitz, you’re more than just a tool for someone else’s recovery. You don’t deserve to be put in such a codependent situation. If you are in a relationship like that, please talk to your partner. You are there to help them, not carry the burden on your own. And you deserve support, too.

#taakitz #taako #kravitz #taz kravitz #the adventure zone #taz #taz taako #taz taakitz #the zone cast #yes this is a serious post #please dont be like this #unpopular opinion

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badsithnocookie · 5 years

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bitter question asks

tagged by the lovely @buffkreia. tagging anyone who wants to i guess. you. yes, you, personally. answer these questions now. (or don’t. it’s up to you.)

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?

satele/marr (wat). anyone/marr. anyone/malgus.

Are there any popular fandom OTPs you only BroTP?

vette+sw. any variant on teacher+student (sw/jaesa, jc/nadia, etc). (jk/kira is... borderline, since kira is more a peer than a student, whereas jaesa/nadia/ashara are very much students of the player character, with ds!jaesa being not just a student but an abused one at that).

Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion?

hell yes. i once unfollowed someone (who is since long deactivated) for posting “tivva and her old moff cutesy headcanons”. what the fuck, fandom.

i also make a habit of unfollowing people who do Shit that i complain about on the regular (fascism/wh-te s-premcy rhetoric apologetics, ab-se shippers, etc). (though i am more picky about who i follow than i used to be. for a lot of people though it’s nothing personal, i am just a Weirdo who likes to read their entire dash, so i keep the number of blogs i follow low. but if we interact on anything resembling the regular i probably have a nose at your bagel anyway)

Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular OTP?

as above most/any variant on teacher/student.

jk/scourge. i’ve seen it done ICly exactly once. most of the time scourge is rewritten as a noble romantic knight in edgy armour and not the manipulative borderline-stalker that he is. i hate the pairing for the shitty characterisation that usually accompanies it and i hate the pairing for the abusive relationship it would be were he IC. there is no winning move here except not to play.

corso/smuggler. i get the feeling that most people into this pairing like corso as they want him to be, not corso as he is. or maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part, idk.

doc/quinn. this pairing is peak White Fujoshi and i hate it. i hate the examples where it’s doc repeatedly hitting on an increasingly uncomfortable quinn, because haha sexually harassing someone is both hilarious and hot am i right. i hate the examples where it’s quinn seducing doc for intel on the resistance (protip: that’s rape!). i hate it i hate it i hate it if i never see it again it will be too soon

Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?

f!sw/almost anyone male, as a result of the endless shitty revenge adultery abuse fics that are all over quinn fandom. not all f!/sw/anyone male fics/ships fall into this category, but most of them seem to, especially /theron and /pierce.

(something something why is it that the majority of people who write f!sw/men of colour only do so in order to generate manpain for a white dude, huh)

Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?

nope.

Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now?

pugging EV/KP

Have you received anon hate? What about?

until i switched off anon, yes. it was fifty percent “you say mean things about quinn and that makes you an awful person” and fifty percent “you say nice things about quinn and that makes you an awful person”. proof that no matter what i do, i will never make The People happy. conclusion: do whatever the fuck i want

Most disliked character(s)? Why?

scourge. because i have an irrational dislike of people who manipulative borderline stalkers, who threaten to kidnap the children of others so they can be “raised correctly” into an abusive reactionary religious order.

Most disliked arc? Why?

republic makeb is where logic and my will to live go to die.

kotet is equal parts ‘empire apologia’, ‘vaylin torture porn’, and ‘excuses to be violent towards koth’. appo hates.

Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

koth vortena. both for his intrinsic qualities as a character and because of the endlessly terrible way he is treated by the fanbase and th devs both. if i had a penny for every “but he said valk was good to zakuul” i would never have to worry about my income again.

jaric kaedan. he’s great i love him. grumpy, arguably less than ls, but passoinately dedicated to the jedi and the republic. hates scourge on sight. badassed the Dread Masters into submission. pushes for the jedi to take action in a war targeted at wiping them out instead of hiding behind the republic. he’s just *chef’s kiss*

Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

the jc story. imp makeb.

Unpopular opinion about XXX character?

major anri exists only to put a likeable face on the empire. she and brax are incredibly deliberate (not to mention hamfisted) attempts to Humanise(tm) a genocidal imperialistic fascist regime and to attempt to play on the guilt of players/characters who take the saboteur route. sadly what bioware seem to fail to realise is that i traded my ability to feel sorry for the empire for a magic bean. it was completely worth it.

Unpopular opinion about your fandom?

swtor fandom is a dumpster fire. racism, misogyny, fascism apologia, ablism, we got it all, folks. in that respect it is not abnormal for fandoms but this is neither an excuse nor a selling point.

it is also not welcoming in the slightest if you take issue with any of the above.

Unpopular opinion about the manga/show/game?

the old method of unlocking travel waypoints was way more immersive (even if it was a colossal pain in the ass). exploring the depths of belsavis for the first time was awe inspiring - seeking out ancient forgotten tech to dig into secrets locked away for untold millenia.

yes, it was a huge pain in the ass, especially if you were on your nth alt. i’d be fine with some system (maybe legacy based) where waypoints/speeder points for a planet are unlocked once you’ve completed the planetary story for the first time (or something). there is so much content in the game that just gets missed by first time players because bioware want to rush them through to the very end and it sucks.

If you could change anything in the show, what would you change?

invent a time machine, arrange for the firing of those who okayed kotfe and its shitty story that glorified a repeat abuser and its shitty gameplay and its total lack of repeatable group content in an mmo. make the writers produce something that a. actually stayed true to the themes of star wars and b. didn’t glorify an abusive genocidal shitlord like valkoriate.

then find myself some lottery numbers and set up a fund for giving out money to people who are reduced to begging on social media for medical bills.

Does not shipping something ‘popular’ mean you’re in denial and/or biased?

shipping drama worst drama

What is the purest ship in the fandom?

vette/spewie

What are your thoughts on crack ships?

crackships which require you to ignore or worse betray a character’s personality (satele/marr, quinn/elara) - kill on sight

everything else - whatever

Popular character you hate?

darth marr. he is so overrated i don’t even know what to say. he has no personality, nothing. he didn’t even have a unique va in vanilla. he’s a shitty empty space that empire fandom hyped up up and away because he memes well and i loathe him.

Unpopular character you love?

i’m pretty sure this i a repeat of that question up there where i enthused about jaric kaedan

Would you recommend XXX to a friend? Why or why not?

join me in hell

Most shippable character?

eva kaayz. everyone needs a cute bisexual mirialan in their life.

Least shippable character?

darth marr. valkoriate. skadge.

#warning: high salt content #rape tag #abuse tag #long post

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pocket-luv101 · 5 years

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I would like to get some stuff off my chest...

I never talked about this but there were times I’ve considered leaving the Servamp fandom. For over a year, I’ve received rude anon messages. It started as “How can you stan a murderer?” After a while, it became “You write the characters OOC. Lawlicht is so abusive”. Which morphed into “Stop bombarding the tag. You’re annoying”. I just deleted those messages.

They hurt but there was nothing I could do but sweep everything under a rug. I never bothered to respond because I knew it would be pointless. I couldn’t tell anyone about the messages either. I felt that others wouldn’t care and it would likely end with people saying I’m trying to start drama. I thought of turning off anons but I knew shy people send asks through anon. It didn’t feel right to punish shy people because of a few rude anons.

A week ago, the anons got so much worse. It went from a few every month to a bunch in a day. Anons started to call me names that ranged from “fujoshi c***” to “shipper trash”. It got to the point where I had to turn off anon and I emptied my inbox. I also decided to step away from the fandom and I moved all my queued posts into my drafts. It wasn’t the name calling that got to me (I got enough of that in high school to be numb).

The reason they thought they were right in saying it is what made me snap. When I say “I ship Mahiru with everyone” it’s a joke. I thought people knew this. I think ships like LawHiru and WorShu are cute but I don’t treat them seriously like I do with my OTPs or expect them to be canon. I intended those rare pairs to be lighthearted fun.

This fandom has always been small and there are only a few content creator among us. I love Servamp as a series and I want to draw people into the fandom. I make a bunch of silly quotes and queue them. I also write a lot. At first, it was only for my OTPs. But I was afraid of becoming too repetitive and I didn’t want to limit myself. Rare pairs let me vary my writing.

But people only look at that on a surface level and make assumptions about me. Just because I have a lot of ships, it doesn’t mean I don’t value the friendships between these characters. If you read my fanfics, you will know that. Friendship and platonic love are often the motivation for the characters in my multi-chapter fanfics where I can explore the characters more.

Forest of Ash: Licht travels across the world to fight the God of the Dead and save his friend, Mahiru. He only puts aside his prejudice against gods when Mahiru defends Kuro.

Secrets in Time: Mahiru threatens Mikuni when he learns that he sold Tetsu a fake brooch.

Spellbound: Mahiru is willing to bend the rules in his investigation because a serial killer is targeting musicians like his friend.

Second Chance: Mahiru warns Hyde not to hurt Licht and slaps him when he finds out he had. Kuro and World End actively support Hyde and helps him win back Licht.

Misono’s BDay: Centers around Mikuni feeling left out now that Misono has so many new friends.

Servamp Christmas: The Servamps want to throw a party to show how much they appreciate their Eves. The second chapter is exclusively for platonic relationships.

Those are just six small examples off the top of my head. I don’t like when people who don’t know a thing about me place assumptions on me as if they do. I feel like people don’t see me as a person and they just say whatever they want about me. I am a person with emotions and a breaking point.

I know I’m not one of the big personalities in the fandom who people actually care about. Most of the DMs I get, it’s usually one of three things: (1) “Hey, are you friends with ‘x’? Can you introduce us?”; (2) “I was blocked by ‘x’. Can you talk to them for me?”; or (3) “Oh, sorry, I actually wanted to send this to another creator.” Whenever I get one of those, I try to be polite but it still stings. Hell, I doubt a majority of people here knows my name. Occasionally, I get a nice DM but I’m always waiting for the hammer to drop and they say one of those three things.

I never wanted to make a post like this because I don’t like drama. I’ve seen how poorly the fandom handles these things and that stopped me from talking about this. A part of me also knew that it would likely blow up in my face. With that foresight, I decided that it was best to keep my head low for the past year. I faked a smile and made little jokes to cover up how people have made me feel in this fandom.

I continued to write because I love the series and its characters. I don’t want to let a few people change how I feel about a series. There are also very nice people I’ve met. But after that new wave of anons, I snapped. Aren’t I allowed to get frustrated when words and baseless accusations are thrown at me? Apparently, no. People will once again just assume I’m a bitch.

Now, I’m just tired after everything and I simply can’t pretend to be okay anymore. I still love Servamp but I’ll keep to myself for a while.

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rpbetter · 3 years

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As a female I get tired of seeing psa post about /It's important to treat female muses with respect/ or /Female muses deserve better treatment!!/ it's this constant thing I get slapped in the face by mutuals who reblogs that once in a blue moon, but ignore male muses or treat them like shit. I'm sorry to come off as sexist, I wish people would look out for male muses too and those who are gay since they get the short end of the stick and not appreciated. Don't get me wrong it's important to respect all muses regardless of their gender, but these post are coming off as quite feminist and Tumblr is known for being a man hater. I feel really bad for saying all of this.. I'm sorry for this rant, RPbetter. I just need to let it off my chest.

It's all good, Anon! I did tell y'all you could do exactly this!

I know, as in, I can actually feel the hackles of the RPC rising preemptively, this is going to rub people the very, very wrong way...so, I'm asking you to at least try to put that on hold and consider some things about this as a different view from what you've experienced before you get angry with Anon or myself.

Because I think the issue with this, and all PSA's that are especially full of delineation like these are, is that it isn't going to be everyone's experience in the RPC.

We tend to feel like the RPC is our little corner, or for some of you, vast empire. Sometimes, an overlap of both - our little area we have cultivated with our mutuals, our preferred resource blogs, all the blogs that branch off from us and the larger RPC specific fandom community we're a part of. I mean, I know my fandom is huge, my highly cultivated homestead within it is tiny.

I also interact with people from equally huge RPC fandoms. So, between the two, I see some major differences. The differences in some of the minuscule RPC corners I have people in can be even more extreme.

Example?

I have a mutual who is open to crossovers and spends time in three bigger fandoms with their muse. The muse is highly desirable in the fandom they come from, had no issue adapting and being desirable in the second big one, but in the third, it was quite different. Same approach that worked out wonderfully everywhere else did not work in this third fandom because the muse...is female in a male and gay ship predominant fandom. So, while this mutual never experienced trouble getting/keeping interaction and respectful treatment of their muse/themselves everywhere else, they suddenly got slapped with it there. It's often a problem of specific fandoms and their material.

Another example?

Myself.

My main muse is everything that the more hateful PSA's of this sort say is the desirable muse that unfairly gets all the attention and respect: extremely well-known main character, conventionally attractive, male, white, young, and the way he presents in canon, you can play with HCs about him being not being cishet pretty easily. Highly shippable muse that can be made even more so without messing with canon much, if at all.

So, you'd think that I would never have any trouble getting interactions, ships that I want, plots I want, and good treatment of my muse (I mean by other muns, other muns not being total assholes about my muse, what happens between muses, when it isn't directly due to the mun's attitude, is different), right? I don't.

Don't get me wrong, I have the interactions I want, they're perfect. I have the writing partners I always wanted, the best ships, stunning plots, but that's entirely because I am OC and crossover friendly. I'm open to accepting writing partners based purely on the writing. My own fandom does not like my muse, outside of one specific version anyway, the canon ship is not supported, the popular fanon ship is likely to get you a callout in the RPC.

In my fandom, the female muses do get more respect and attention for the most part. It's one of those fandoms pretty into...well, fandom as an act of activism. That's not to say, before anyone loses it on me, that creating or picking up a female muse is doing it for woke points. Just that there is a rather open prerogative in my fandom to create/choose muses based on the idea of "representation" and "fixing canon." If you have one that is like mine, you're automatically assumed to be a lot of really shitty things. Getting called a school shooter, love that for me.

The whole "respect female muses or die" take isn't necessary there, it's the take. Doesn't stop it from coming around weekly, though, so I do feel you on this, Anon.

Furthermore, I'd personally prefer it if we'd all consider getting back to the take of just respecting muse choices and writing, period. People are always going to have preferences, in one place it might align with your own, in another it doesn't. That's perfectly alright and does not mean anything horrible about those people unless they're actively being horrible with it!

Preferring female muses doesn't mean you're a radfem, preferring (or just having even one) a f/m ship does not mean this or that you're homophobic either, nor does it make a bi/pan muse suddenly heterosexual and "bad representation/you're just saying they're bi and that's gross." Just means those are the ships that developed.

Preferring male muses doesn't mean you're "part of the problem" or "taking the easy way," and having or preferring a queer ship does not mean you're a "nasty fujoshi." It also doesn't invalidate what someone has established about their muse's sexuality, a bi/pan muse isn't Gay Now because their primary ship is m/m.

And that's to say nothing of how weird, and often at least mildly offensive, all of this is to both muns and muses that are not on the gender binary. You should probably consider that before you keep implying to a mun that the muse they've established as not cis is exactly that.

Or, that writing a female muse might be impossible for some muns for more reasons than just preference, a thing that is valid enough on its own. A decent number of muns in the RPC are also not cis, this may be the only safe place for them to drop being gendered as they were assigned at birth, it might even trigger dysphoria for them to write a female muse. I know that I am incredibly uncomfortable writing female muses. It's a little ridiculous to keep dropping the implication to outright demand that everyone needs to do their part in filling the female muse quota in the RPC or they're misogynists and/or phobes.

My experience, and I am not alone in it, has been getting plenty of shit for having male muses only, always assumed to be cisgender and often heterosexual. Plenty of shit for not writing the canon as cishet, too...and plenty more for my main ships being with female characters because they're the ones that worked out and stuck around.

No one is lying when they say that there are places where their male muses and queer ships are not looked on positively.

The thing is, I also witness female muses being treated like shit, yes!

And I will say, that treatment is so much worse if the muse is also an OC, has a canon f/m ship they'd like to write or just to write a ship with a canon if they're an OC, or they're certain types of female muses. Because the demands do not stop at being female. You also have to write a Strong Female Character to be of interest, and she had better be available to shipping and smut while not presenting as too sexually open. It's become an impossible obstacle course.

I see it on the dash, I see absolutely valid complaints, and the majority of my friends write female muses. I'm very aware of the problems they've faced, bias against them does exist!

Example of this?

Writing partners who have both male and female muses experiencing, repeatedly, their male muses being picked over the female muses, and their emotionally softer or less sexually available female muses being chosen dead last. The writing is great, these muses are well-done and interesting, easy to interact with, but they'll get told on the blogs for the male muses that they're only interested in them, the other mun having missed that this is the same mun behind both muses.

And it always comes down to wanting to ship m/m. Even when the muse is established as being heterosexual, they'll just keep trying to push it into happening with their male muse. If your male muse is heterosexual, that is like a violent act against the whole RPC.

So, that's also absolutely not a lie either, it does happen, it is a problem. It's valid to be upset about this!

In my opinion and experience, these are both significant problems predicated upon the same, overall issues:

not respecting choices and preferences equally

performative activism in fictional communities

requiring personal information as justification in order to respect choices/preferences as valid and not problematic

not being interested in writing for its own sake and characters for their own sake, but rather, what they say about oneself/in validation and display of one's ideals and/or personhood

not understanding that just because a character is x, y, or z does not, actually, make them interesting or a good character, let alone to everyone

So, I really think the answer here isn't saying that there is a single problem with muse gender across the board, everywhere and without variables, and demanding that people "respect," a thing that actually translates into "you must accept all of x as writing partners no matter your interest in them or viability, as writing partners" all of any one type of muse. I think that's just weirdly pressuring and remaining at a distance from the incredibly simple answer of accepting that people have preferences that do not always benefit you, that you might even find offensive, but that's a right they have.

It's okay if you're not interested in the conventionally attractive, canon male muse, even if someone has HC'ed him as queer. It's okay if you're not interested in the Strong Woman female OC, even if someone has given her other labels of significance. It's okay if you're not interested in someone's well-developed, well-written female OC or canon, someone's male OC or canon, or someone's proudly genderless creature. (Again, don't come at me folks, I literally call myself that, it's a joke based on the way people who do not ascribe to the gender binary can be treated/viewed by others who do, thanks!)

Your likes and dislikes are okay! Even if they're "not inclusive," yes. So long as you're not being a fucking bigot, you're alright. It isn't anyone's job here to be correct the ills of reality in their fiction, let's just all start focusing less on the fine details and more on respecting each other regardless of whether individual preferences benefit us or not.

Forcing people to interact based on guilting or shaming them is the opposite of the answer. Always. And just because it is one extreme in your RPC area does not mean it's like this in everyone else's. I'm genuinely sorry that anyone has experienced negative things based on such ridiculous factors, but please, be sure you're not turning around and doing the same shit to someone else.

Going to repeat:

Forcing people to interact based on guilting or shaming them is the opposite of the answer. Always.

#answered #anonymous #vent ask #female muses #rp problems #rp advice

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