#sure sometimes the narrative doesnt WANT that to be the case but hes literally gods messenger boy | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

thesherrinfordfacility · 9 months

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I think Crowley DID realize his running away problem. In episode 1 he's lamenting and trying to find the point in it all. Then in episode 6, while his instinctive knee-jerk reaction is to once again implore Aziraphale to run off with him, he doesn't stick to it this time. Instead Crowley argues that the Earth and everything on it will be killed either way and that Heaven doesn't care about humans- but Crowley and Aziraphale do. Yeah, they could run off to Alpha Centauri together and be safe like Gabriel and Beelzebub. But that's not going to save Earth. There's an acknowledgement in there that Crowley DOES care about it and is willing to stay and fight for it. He's not solely thinking about a future with Aziraphale anymore; he's reaffirming that in "all of us against all of them" he's first and foremost on the side of humankind. Even if Aziraphale isn't.

this is a good point, to be sure✨ the way i see it is that when crowley does stay behind, the narrative implies that he only seems to because aziraphale does. on all three occasions he proposed they do - bandstand, outside the bookshop, and ep6 - aziraphale refuses. and the whole point is to run away together, so crowley doesnt either.

now im not dismissing crowley's love for humanity; it is literally stated in the book that he is an optimist at heart and in that heart has a place for humanity (paraphrased, mea culpa), and im sure that plays a role in his screen adaptation, but as ive said in other asks, i don't think it's as obvious because limitations on what you can translate to screen from written narration in a book can prove difficult. in fact, iirc, the only mention we get of this is "you said you'd be testing them, but you shouldnt test them to destruction". this holds weight, yes, because he is alone and is trying to speak directly to god. but as soon as he feels like it's inevitable that the world will end, he immediately diverts to Running Away, and sacks off any thought of fighting even harder - instead, fighting harder seems to be aziraphale's way of doing things.

in any case, when we get to ep6 of s2, he reverts to type, because he sees that running away is the only way they can escape heaven (and hell by extension) now that the metatron has gotten his hooks into aziraphale. when crowley says, "when heaven ends life here on earth, it'll be just as dead as if hell ended it", to me he's essentially saying (amongst other things, granted) that it doesn't matter what aziraphale does, no matter if he tries to rebuild and change heaven, its an inevitability. that regardless of what he does, heaven and hell are as bad as each other, nothing will change, and the outcome will always be the same. its not an 'if', but a 'when'.

this to me is him categorically dismissing any other option than to run. aziraphale however is willing to try, same as he did in s1, but crowley doesn't want to hear it... out of fear? yes, understandable, but it doesn't speak to me of crowley saying he cares about earth/humanity, only that it's an argument that aziraphale's fight is futile. that the only version of their future together exists in being free of all of these constraints, and he's desperate for aziraphale to see that - "tell me you said no." aziraphale thinks this too, that they need to be free of heaven and hell, but the only way to do that is to change it, to fight.

this kinda brings me back to crowley's need to be aziraphale's saviour - he hasn't fully learnt from s1 that fighting and changing the narrative is sometimes the only course of action to guarantee safety, and instead is hell-bent (ha) in protecting aziraphale instead of allowing him agency in his own saving, his own decisions. aziraphale led on this stance re: armageddon, and it was with aziraphale's conviction after the fire that made crowley do this. this is very different from the book, where (again, iirc) crowley makes his way to the airfield for his final stand against armageddon on his own. the show however seems to deliberately only stoke crowley into this decision once he finds out that aziraphale is only discorporated, not dead, and is planning to head to tadfield himself.

now it's admirable that tv!crowley finds strength in aziraphale's resolve; that's poetic and romantic, but it's not healthy. sometimes the best course of action is to flee, true, but even if aziraphale fails in changing heaven (which, let's face it, i think in the grand scheme of things is going to be the case), he tried. the fact that crowley's knee-jerk reaction, as you say, is to run - this, to me, hasn't changed at all by the end of s2. he somewhat got there with "all of us against all of them" at the end of s1, but remember - this is without the context of: realising how much he loves aziraphale, the plan for the second coming, and the metatron's offer to aziraphale. so to my mind, in ep6, this 'us' including humanity wavers, and it's only about him and aziraphale. the protectiveness wins out, and results into the instinct to run.

now that aziraphale has left, who knows if crowley will in fact stay on earth - i hope he does, because that to me would be the first step in his s3 character development that he doesn't need to stay and fight solely because aziraphale does, but more that he can do it because he wants to, he wants to fight for what is right✨

#bear in mind anon that this is only my interpretation!!!#everyone has their own and are equally valid:#in this house all opinions are valid if you can argue them well enough #good omens #not a shitpost but its good omens babyyyy #ask #crowley meta #s1 meta #s2 meta

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transguyedgeworth · 3 years

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this is the headcanon anon!! u asked for more so i will provide!!! i have so many and they are just. stuck in my head all the time i LOVE talking abt them also i am procrastinating going to bed LMAO

-maya and phoenix have matching friendship bracelets that pearls made

-before moving to a new appt miles always makes sure to check if the buildings are built with earthquakes in mind

- edgeworth sometimes sees mvk in franziska. he hates it so much but he also sometimes sees it in himself. miles go to therapy challenge but he works so hard on forgiving himself and fran

- phoenix was the one who found miles' letter; it was on his desk. phoenix still has it, crumpled in the pocket of some old pants he never wears anymore. he cant find it but when he does he will burn it

- iris and phoenix are on good terms!!! i Do not like feenris because it doesnt really make sense to me but i like to think that phoenix tried to help iris when he could

- maya and pearl make yearly trips to the temple where bridge to the turnabout was to speak to misty

- edgeworth used to be reminded of dl6 whenever he saw maya or pearl but he now realizes that its not their fault. heck it wasnt even mistys fault. some bad things happened, and he knows better than anyone that you cant blame someone because of who their family is

-OK less sad but edgeworth is the little spoon

-he loves affection even when he doesnt show it in his pompous little bastard way

-maya hasnt channeled mia since bridge to the turnabout and shes ok with that. she misses her but she also knows mia would want them to move on

-GAME NIGHT WITH THE WRIGHTS maya is SO competitive and phoenix constantly has to ask miles to get him out of sticky situations

-edgeworth has the biggest sweet tooth rivaled only by maya

- he will occasionally carry a little candy tin in his pocket

-fran and maya have date nights where they each choose a place to eat and fran always chooses super fancy places and maya chooses little hole in the wall places and at first they were both uncomfy with each other's choices but now maya loves getting all dressed up and eating fancy stuff and fran doesnt mind getting some good homecooked meals

- also both the von karma siblings are bad at cooking because they were never really taught, mvk had cooks and stuff to make food for them so fran gets private lessons with maya and phoenix teaches miles how to cook the best he can lmao

-edgeworth is always very cold and phoenix is like a goddamn heater so they always are at equilibrium when they are close together

- also occasionally edgeworth will poke phoenix with his cold ass feet when theyre sleeping and phoenix will shriek so loud they get noise complaints

-phoenix has a full laugh that brightens a room. he'll start laughing at anything and then suddenly itll be funny as hell. edgeworth usually starts with a little "hm" and then will laugh a little and then compose himself, but when things are really funny he'll laugh and then start wheezing and it makes phoenix laugh even harder

-maya will also start laughing at anything her laugh is bright and she laughs in little bits and pieces. a fran laugh is rare but she will often just let out a loud "HA" and startle everyone as she continues to laugh

- there wasnt much place or time to laugh in the von karma household so both fran and miles take a while to laugh, but theyre learning!

- the gang LOVES to celebrate bdays. ANYONES. gumshoes. mayas. penny from the turnabout samurai case. heck even mia and gregory!

okay actually these were more than the last one but!!! my god these are SM fun to come up with!!! i hope they bring u joy

SCREAMS THANK YOU HEADCANON ANON I AM THRIVING!!!! these are so good and they bring me so much joy hngh.... i want to hear like every single one of your thoughts because there has not been a single bad idea on this list so far...

the friendship bracelets. please yes, absolutely precious. i ADORE the idea of found family game night. the chaos that would bring. i would Like to see it. in addition the birthday thing is adorable i can just imagine all the amazing parties and cake and maybe even party games?? bring maya’s competitive side back out!!!!

LITERALLY ALL OF YOUR EDGEWORTH THOUGHTS ARE SO PERFECT HOW ARE YOU INSIDE MY BRAIN??? literally edgeworth go to therapy challenge. i love all the stuff you mentioned he’s working on, like seeing mvk in himself and fran and moving on from dl-6 and learning how to laugh and cook and indulge in sweets and be open with affection... HNGNH. also the stuff about him being the little spoon in bed and him and phoenix being cold and hot respectively and him putting his cold feet on phoenix in bed. completely factual, that is canon, that is also something i do to my partner every time we share a bed. edgeworth kinnie moments i guess fhsjfndn

YOUR BTTT THOUGHTS TOO!!! all very good, i love the idea of them going to visit the temple and staying in contact with iris, i think that is so lovely and wonderful and the thing about maya not having channeled mia since then is so appropriate and in-character and fitting with the narrative truly capcom should hire you.

also also the franmaya stuff... so good. i love when women are in Lesbians with each other. and the descriptions of everyone’s laughs made me smile so much they were wonderful and so so accurate. thank you for the food.

listen i know i should go to bed. i know i should. i have to get up early to make sure i don’t sleep through the exterminator. but these are so fucking good i honestly just want to hear more of these headcanons for like the rest of time because they are so good.

#maya fey #phoenix wright #pearl fey #miles edgeworth #manfred von karma #franziska von karma #iris hawthorne #misty fey #mia fey #dick gumshoe #penny nichols #gregory edgeworth #von karma siblings #franmaya #wrightworth #jfa spoilers #t&t spoilers #miles answers #headcanon anon

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dangan-meme-palace · 4 years

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Do you find Saihara's characterization weird in chapter 6? Because I do :( He's become super confident, optimistic, and leader-like too fast, especially if you compare to ch5 and before...I understand that in the last chapter all protags get pumped up to end the killing game but...he's quoting Momota and he also developed a 'hunch' like him...even Harukawa says 'sometimes you're so much like Kaito' pls no I like Saihara the way he is, meaning, not like Momota :( but that's just my opinion! ^^

Shuichi's characterization is all over the place. It's not even like... "he's inconsistent because humans are inconsistent" or whatever, it's literally just that his personality changes whenever the narrative needs it to without anything but loose, barely-there excuses to try and justify why it happens.

Chapter 1:

No problems with believing in his detective work, he's actually quite shockingly confident in them for how much he downplays them.

His actual problem is not thinking his skills are where they should be according to professional standards, which is an accurate assessment if the rest of the game is anything to go by actually.

Calls Kaito a reckless idiot for doing something reckless and idiotic. This is the only time he does this.

Learns a lesson?? I guess?? The lesson was apparently supposed to be "don't be afraid to reach for the truth" but it came off more like "you shouldn't let everyone die just because you liked Kaede the most, picking favorites and having bias is bad because you have a duty to remain unbiased so everyone doesnt die"

Then everyone conveniently forgets that he was willing to let them die.

Chapter 1 was the best for his characterization except for the trial. I wish he had acted like this throughout the entire game.

Let him investigate. Dear god why doesn't the detective investigate, or even cast doubt?

Chapter 2:

Kaito is starting to become his Bro now. He's not super biased like in later chapters, but you can start to see it happening.

This is the chapter where he tells everyone not to let their biases get in the way of logic, which is funny considering what he's like in other chapters.

Big sad about Kaede, but a few of the characters (Ryoma, Tenko) comfort him so he's choosing to turn this tragedy into a growth moment. I guess it's kinda like what Chihiro did, except a girl had to die for it and he didn't get brained with a dumbbell at the end.

He's the nicest to everyone in this chapter. Don't worry, it won't last long :)

If he had kept the weird sort of optimism he had during this chapter plus the logical thinking instead of leaning into the angst he might've actually developed and Kaede's death might've been worth a damn.

Chapter 3

Maki gets the spotlight so there's not much to say except for the fact that he's gotten super awkward and is getting progressively dumber.

Honestly Maki is kind of right when she keeps calling him a dumbass for asking questions with very obvious answers.

Literally how the fuck did he ever solve infidelity cases when he can't even figure out shit that's this basic.

Smh.

Oh yeah, the odd hopefulness is gone now. It's buried next to my hope of him turning out to be an interesting character.

Put your hat back on if you're gonna angst again emo boy.

Investigation? Dont know her. I only know the Grind 💯 and hanging out with the Bros 😤👊

Chapter 4:

One of his worst chapters. I fucking hate this chapter.

Everyone patted him on the back before the trial and it felt shoehorned in. I'm not even sure why they did it honestly?

Kokichi = Evil

Kaito & Maki = Good

But dont worry guys, he's totally not biased or anything! (/s)

He's mega biased.

During the trial he has a lot of confidence, like the good kind he had back in Chapter 2. Especially when he lied and when he stood his ground against Kaito. He'll be punished by the narrative for going against Kaito, but for now I'll enjoy his limp-dicked rebellion.

Apparently he cares for Gonta except he never once talked to him during the main story and even insulted Gonta in his head during their FTEs. When did he start to care about Gonta? He didn't, but now he does I guess.

Chapter 5:

Another bad chapter. Hate this too

Officially graduated from Kaito's Bro to Kaito's Simp.

Also his confidence is entirely dependent on Kaito. When Kaito wants him to do something, he's sure Kaito's plan will work and gives him all of his support. If Kaito expresses displeasure, he's ashamed of himself and has no confidence. I-... y'know sometimes I genuinely worry about their dynamic.

Kokichi = Evil ×2 combo

No detective work or reasoning. Why would the gofer project want a cosplayer to go to space and preserve humanity? Or an ex murderer? Or an assassin? Or a detective? Are they going to be solving space crimes? Shuichi should have been so god damn suspicious- the MOST suspicious, even- but he's practically braindead at this point in the story.

Investigation skills, when will you return from the war?

Goes from suicidal to "uwu I'm a hopeful student of Hope's Peak Academy" way too quickly for someone with supposed confidence issues.

Seriously, how did he go from "the world has been destroyed and I cant fix it so I might as well die" to "yeah! we will definitely fix it! we dont know how yet, but we'll totally do it because we're Ultimates even though in Chapter 1 I didnt even think I deserved to be an Ultimate but shhhh" so quickly?

Kiibo and Shuichi kinda sounded like Kaede when they saw the Hope's Peak Flashback and it's so fucking weird because there's no justification for it

Chapter 6:

Literally what was this chapter

Why did it take Kiibo threatening to blow up the school to get him to investigate the mastermind again? 9 people have died since Chapter 1, but he acted as though he couldn't do anything about it. He even says he "can only help after people die", but Chapter 1 disproved that because he literally almost caught the mastermind without anyone dying so-

At least he investigated, I guess. It's sad that a detective investigating is considered a miracle, but here we are.

During the trial he's rapidly switching from hopeful to suicidal to hopeful again and it gives me so much whiplash, like god damn. Chill out a bit, buddy.

Much like the now-late Kaito, Shuichi tries to convince everyone to die with him to make some sort of stand against TDR. Somehow this worked and they also somehow didn't die and we aren't given justification for either.

The confidence came from the fact that the narrative needed him to be confident. That's it. There's literally no justification for this. There's no justification for anything, honestly.

What even was that ending, like what the fuck was that? None of their arcs got wrapped up at all...

So basically

Shuichi is confident but he's not but only when Kaito believes in him but he can stand against Kaito when he needs to and also he's not actually confident and Kaito needs to baby him. Shuichi is also not biased because he learned a lesson about that, unless your name is Kaito, Maki, or Kokichi, in which case he is incredibly biased to the point of putting the lives of other people on the line, but he wants everyone to survive because he learned a lesson about that. He's also incredibly dismissive of most of the cast in his head, to the point of being cold, but it should be noted that Shuichi really cares about his friends and is really nice and supportive of others. He's a big doormat except for when he doesn't want to be, unless it involves Kaito, because then he is always a sidekick except for when he isn't.

Hope that cleared things up! As you can see Shuichi is a very consistent character :) (/s)

-tech

#asks #defective detective #ive probably missed a lot but im going off my bad memory #i gotta rewatch the whole game again sooner or later #its been a while #but this is what i can remember anyway

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c-is-for-circinate · 5 years

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I've been trying to figure out why I dont like Caduceus and your last meta reply got me closer to figuring it out. Like, I've been trying to like him, or at least figure why I dont, and describing him as 'a good person who doesnt have the self awareness to realize hes a jerk' I think got close to my issue with him, so thanks for the Good Meta

This is in response to this post, which I know some people agreed with very strongly and which made some other people very upset. I’m glad it clicked with you, at least, and that it helped clarify some Cad stuff for you!

I think that a very big thing about Taliesin’s characters across the board, for me, is how intensely judgy they have the capacity to be. In many ways, Caduceus is less judgmental than Percy or Molly, which is a fascinating thing to think about. And I have found that fascinating since pretty much my second or third episode of Critical Role, because so much of that judgment tends to be couched in, ‘I judge you for not accepting other people the way I think you should’. Percy loves Keyleth but also thinks she’s naive, too idealistic about what people ought to be rather than acknowledging and planning for the flaws he’s sure he knows they have. Molly dresses and talks and walks and presents himself in such a flamboyant way specifically to elicit reactions, specifically so he can decide who to write off completely and not worry about any more. In both cases it’s this super-interesting, incredibly relatable picture of a person who judges other people for their judgments.

Because Critical Role is such a long-form show, we got to see Percy be proven right and be proven wrong, we got to see him smug and we got to see him humble, and we got to see a lot of different angles on both his standards (what other people ought to be doing) and his stubbornness (how ready he was to dismiss people who didn’t meet them). Because we lost Molly so early, we only really got to start scratching the surface of his assumptions and certainties, and one of my biggest regrets is that we didn’t get to explore them so much more. In both cases, that stubborn sureness--I know how the world works, better than anybody around me--was one of my favorite parts of the character. It’s such an interesting flaw, because it wasn’t always detrimental. Both Percy and Molly were often right, or at least they acted in line with their assumptions and the universe responded how they expected, and the team benefited from it. Both of them had a certain amount of ‘and it’s our job to be decent to other people’ as part of that worldview, which really helped in making them likable. Both of them made sense, which led to the (for me) really great cognitive experience of, “okay, I agree with this character, but also I don’t think they’re the ultimate authority they believe themself to be! but I do think they’re right! but maybe they shouldn’t be so sure they’re right!” I find internal narrative conflict like that extremely compelling, and in particular the exploration of being judgmental about other people’s judgment resonates with me a lot.

So I’ve been waiting for cracks and criticisms with Caduceus, because I suspected from very early on that he, too, would be Extremely Sure He Understands How the World Works At All Times. I have been looking for the places he Knows He’s Right, and I’ve been eating them up.

Cad’s certainties are completely different than Percy’s and Molly’s, but once again, it’s incredibly difficult to say he’s wrong. He believes in fate--well, if you declare that everything that happens was supposed to happen, how is it ever possible to say he’s wrong? He believes Melora is watching and guiding and wants for him to do things--it’s D&D, she literally is watching (and if she happens to be a lot less invested in any specific outcome than Caduceus thinks, she’s not about to tell him so). He believes he has a job, has a purpose. Because it’s D&D, because it’s a story, because the story needs to go places and as the PCs it’s their job to do things to get there, on a very real meta level he’s literally correct.

He thinks that his job and his purpose is to help people--and how can we say he’s wrong? How can we say he shouldn’t try to be a good person, try to help? And he’s doing his best, and his best so often does help, and when it doesn’t, then it’s not his fault because there are other circumstances. It’s almost impossible to argue with that. Objectively, Caduceus is doing his best. Objectively, in many cases it is helpful.

And yet, that doesn’t mean that Caduceus objectively knows the best way to help in every situation--which even he readily admits. It doesn’t mean Caduceus necessarily knows the “best” way to help even in the situations where he is helpful.

Because right, the other thing about D&D is, Caduceus fundamentally cannot be the Sole Correct Authority on Everything, no matter how much sense his sureness makes. He literally can’t be, because Tal is one of eight people at that table, and he’s not the one running the world. He can be absolutely justified in being mad at Nott, which he absolutely is, and it still isn’t a universal truth that Caduceus Is Right and Nott Is Wrong. There are no universal truths at that table. Not even Matt has universal truths, not about what characters think or feel or do, not about moral absolutism.

(I’m someone who gets really twitchy around people who are Extremely Sure. I’ve known a disproportionate number of them in real life, and I’ve got very specific instinctive skills for not pissing them off that I occasionally wish I hadn’t had to develop. Part of turning from a conflict-averse 20-year-old into a grown-ass adult on my part has involved learning not to automatically agree that the universe must work a certain way, just because a very smart, very sure person who makes sense says so. Part of it’s involved learning not to be that very sure person myself.

I think I grab at moments when Caduceus very clearly isn’t 100% correct because of that. I love the fact that, in Critical Role, we have this multi-layered, many-voiced story proving that even if a character is right, they’re not necessarily the bearer of Objective Universal Truth. Rather than a story where it feels like the author and the universe are trying to make me agree with one person, it’s a story where a character can be right and not right from a thousand different directions at the same time. (Which, if nothing else, makes the story and the character feel so much safer to me.))

Caduceus is a little bit passive-aggressive sometimes, going back to Caduceus and Nott and the original discussion of that other post. And, right, he wants to avoid conflict within the group so he doesn’t make a big deal out of certain things, and just like all of his opinions, it’s hard to say he’s wrong in that. And he has every right and reason and justification for having emotions about some of the many very big things that have happened to him lately. He’s right (he’s not wrong) about a lot of things. He’s actually really good about recusing himself from situations where he doesn’t have the background or knowledge to be right at least to his own standards.

The thing that has me calling Caduceus a little childish is that he’s so utterly disinclined to acknowledge the possibility of nuance. He knows how to help Fjord (he’s decided that he knows how to help Fjord), so he does. He doesn’t know how to help Nott, so he doesn’t. We’ve never seen him take so much as a moment to consider whether or not he’s right in his assessment of his ability to help in either case. And yeah, to me that does feel a little immature. It’s not that he’s got a philosophy and he sticks to it, it’s that he lacks the self-awareness to even acknowledge the blind spots it might give him, let alone try to amend them.

And that’s okay. Acknowledging that Caduceus might possibly be a little bit of a hypocrite, a little judgy, a little wrong in his mental image of the universe and his place in it, makes him so much more interesting. It makes him a person. Not an infallible mouthpiece from God; not a perfect sage holding all the wisdom of the ages. He’s a good person, trying to do his best.

He’s a good character, because he’s an examination of how all these traits both hinder and sometimes help his attempts to be a good person. Stubborn certainty got the M9 up on their feet after Yasha left, comforted Fjord away from U’kotoa, saved a tribe of giants. Caduceus is multifaceted, and the game is multifaceted, and the very same characteristics can be great in one situation and a real problem in another, just like life.

#asked and answered #critical role #driveby meta attack #welp #apparently I still had Things To Say about Cad #Anonymous

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misterbitches · 3 years

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@flootweed

ATOTS

That's super fucking romantic? Like tragic but in a nice way. i love that shit. i'm a monogamous slut for romance pghiosuag even tho we have to learn to live alone too but it's just like the NOTION is nice?!??! awwww i told my mom that SOPHIE's gf was like "she died taking a picture of the moon" and how it was like idk. the gf was just processing it and she thought it was romantic and my mom was like "wow.....depressing" bc think she thought it was stupid millenial shit i was like no mother doent u see she died in the BEAUTY LMAO but then i told her jessica walter's husband died the year before and then she died and she was like "aw...kind of romantic" LMAOOOO i guess two people have to die. why did i tell this story? i am so sorry. the show ended today right (ep 10?) i didn't realize it was that short. so i hope it was a happy ending? (tell me) i understand why you love the atmos! it's like, not really been done. there's this BL that i hear isn't too great but it does take place in a rural part of thailand and there's way less budget. a lot of ppl seem to like it. ep 6 LW / LW in gen gotta be honest, rushed through it. i knew spoilers from jump cause BL spoilers are just absolutely nothing and sometimes ur just like i need to know. i do not understand the ~silently lookin 4 u~ trope it always backfires and is also DUMB. so happy about tiffy. a girl who likes girls but ends up with a man bc of mommy and also the man is ok....it's me. she's gorgeous and actually [h*lf] gay so it's great. god ok i feel so old again. lmaooo but i was like obsessed with lady gaga for that reason (dont ask...also how i got kinda popular on tumblr way back in the day) and shes just absolutely fucking beautiful and bad ass. (which kind of doesnt helpcos they r all skinnty but that's FINEEEE) right? i mean like i guess cos we knew abt it? i can see why he was so pissed off, too? i mean i'm so fucking like...sensitive to being told what to do so i was angry for him from jump. i guess i was also looking at it different wholetime cos i knew the spoilers? i'm assuming u did too lmao. so we knew hed be pissed and leave. and frankly that's what sib gets. just for you my friend i will watch it and update. i think MANY times in shows in gen but it is something you notice a lot in BL bc they are just absolute novices most times. in this case, gene's actor mostly well (and i like him as a person just cos he was on that thai 3 girls in a car show and used to date on eof them lmao) can act so i will look over that scene to see how sib's actor plays off him. but the pausing in between sentences or for so long even decent actors or actors doing better. kao is not bad, not great so they will talk slowly because dramatic acting but the problem is most times it's too long. even if the person is an adept actor it won't always work and YES THEN THAT MEANS THE EDITOR COMES IN AND SNIP SNIP SNIP! it's too long. and sometimes it just does not work even if you can act. but it is GLARING when they cant or are average (someoe said this about tharntype and my god lmao tharn..is...so...slow...in...talking...the actor idk his name it's one of em, the other one with the nose (type) is....different not better but he certainly does not talk as slow. they arent bad but they are not good so.) also sometimes they are forgetting their lines. some ppl find this charming. clearly we do not lmao. what is their relation? what is going on there? i don't have a problem with stepbrothers as long as they didn't grow up with that sibling bond. many times blended families really have to watch out for that kind of fraternizing but it's always when theyre older and teenagers bc they didnt grow up w/ each other....i mean they have chemistry so i'm whatever. but. hennYYWAYYYS.actually it's bc im an idiot i didn't read it as Mhok (singular) and aey's father. Yes and his sister who i think i may hate? im like bitch okkkkkk but. his name is lhong. and he is a psycho. i mean so is type. so. oooh it could be that he stole! but also i'm pretty sure cos hes gay lol or did they

not make that explicit? the thing is i had to skip through most of that scene too because the drama was WAY too much for me. too much. lmao. the sister thing i got and it made sense and iliked that. oh yea he is gay and they know. that's a big one.

WBL

haven’t watched color rush! did you like it? i have seen wyel, parts of mr heart, and ofc to my star :)

ohhhhhh ok. i get you. yea he definitely wasn’t being ooc cos i think that....what u said. and also like....ugh i cant even think rn. i like sam lin a lot so i like gao shi de but i gotta say. lmao. hm. first of all. yes it is creepy what he did. it’s fucking weird. and sad that his whole life revolves around him. it’s not as fucking weird as LW but still like when he did the door thing. i was like UMMMMMMMMM cos i really didnt want it to be constructed. and when it was i was like imma suspend my disbelief. but if anyone dared...

and so what he did in s2 i think he just couldnt realize that he was loved back which is why it’s good he WAS ALONE for 5 yrs imo. but he gave shu yi 0 choice and for that i am pretty sure i would be even angrier. i do think though that the father’s role is pretty important but i can see how the show is like....letting that go? bc as fucking weird as GSD is, he was still like...20? i guess and shu yi’s dad is like. crazy? i am also like he really had to fucking start a company to get noticed like are u joking? is it also that easy? and also why? lmao i just. ugh. i think that probs bothered me the most...priorities.

i like the show! well idk if i love it but sure. i think it’s decent lmao. i understand what you’re saying. for here it bothers me less but i certainly don’t think it was OOC. immature and stupid but like...that’s.....what they are. i also don’t have a problm with the timing from a technical point.

however, when i started the show? i had NO clue what concept of time it was. and that was very annoying. tehy redeemed it bc of the comedy aspects (the first time shu yi sees shi de is so fucking good, i really loved the shot and editing; it’s hilarious and silly) and i started to go with the flow of the show through that. but the fucking concept of time in the show in general esp with repetitive outfits (i understand that they are more likely to wear multiple outfits as well, it’s just that you have to split it up or it i sconfusing visually and looks like the same scene twice or just a full day of shooting which it could be but then something should change in the clothes. this is just an ex~~*~*) and partof that is they have this already controlled narrative i guess.

i have to admit as well...i skipped episode 1. and most of 2. i was like i rly dont want to see someone slap a pereson even if they were like. not together. it’s just not cute also not in front of ppl. and then when they were yelling and bla bla i was like listen ladies lets calm down. too much angst in a boring way. what they have now is good. also they should probably like estrange the father but i doubt they will.

i cannot make up my mind totally now bc i see what ur saying i guess i just don’t feel that way as much but i guess i have to think about it more, too. i do think he was contorlling in getting him or like when he didnt want shu yi to find out whwatshisface liked him. i guess for me it would be if he is still that way in the rship. but even tho he’s at fault for what happened, i’m also like but his dad? but also like...did he try? why did he just stop contacting? but then i guess he emailed everyday? DO U C MY QUANDARY.

alsoi have to say i do not care abt their backdoor being opened lmao like wow business? no thanks

LMAO. did they cry a lot in UWMA? i only know the teamwin parts. which one is fluke the really pale one who died? idk what it is about that kid but i just cant watch him. it’s not his fault it’s mine.

DUDE i still dont understand the husband and wife thing and ive looked into it multiple times. ive kinda just classified it as one of those things that make me uncomfortable but arent problematic lol. it you have any insight about it id love to hear it tho !!

it’s stupid. that’s what it is (husband and wife.) it’s just something they say like many gay couples may use pejoratives in conjunction with them, the f word etc. or even imply something about being a top and a bottom. whatever. but these arent gay spaces or gay storylines. sure gay men may direct them but since BL operates and relies on patriarchy without a doubt and also stereotypes poorly kathoeys or won’t cast trans women in anything substantial and use them as jokes (and see this is one of those things where it’s like...ud never see this in the US tho like our concept of third gender or kathoeys but life stillBOOOOO.) so it’s just useless when they put it into the scripts because it’s for people to consume and lots of girls are. obviously. so the idea that if you are being penetrated and u r the wife and this is used like literally anywhere but not from gay or whatever men is gross. are cis women’s vaginas sieves to them? are trans women not women? do we have to categorize people by PHALLIC OBJECTS IN OUR BODIES SPECIFICALLY A WOMAN? it dont make no sense. plus really most ppl just experiment, there’s more ways than one to have sex, we have lives so most times it’s not just full penetration for hours anyway. it’s just so gross. like oh that’s really funny lol ur the wife cos his dick goes in ur butt XD i get it, same. i say “i’m wife’ whenever there’s a penis in me. fucking kill me. it’s not a big deal but it’s just dumb and gross. if they use it they could try and subvert it too like i like how my engineer has a whole absurdly stupid episode about it. but in TT the dad says “if ur the wife i wont accept it” and i was like u know what gals? im good. goodbye.

pgojaihousgajigko THAT’S SOOOOOOO OOWIEOFUGHOIJ WEIRD. FANDOM IS REALLY WEIRD. i have read rpf and written it once upon a time but dont do it anymore uch. i mean it’s weird. no doubt about that. invasive, weird, strange. but very unreal anyway. it is. plus i dont like celebs or fame and think of it as a gross capitalist scheme so i had to stop (also so weird?) but i know very many people like lean in. lean in. LEAN IN. this youtuber i watch did a video on like insanely popular ships (like that 1d one) and their insane fandoms and i just couldnt. it’s so embarrassing? and then they’re so bold????? about it?

yea it would be cool (more queer men or visibly we should say or like out whatever.) but it doesnt necessarily mean that will be good or beneficial i guess? i mean like. i dont know. so much about the genre is about wish fulfilment for young girls. its literally selling some fantasies because the other thing is for BL (i read a paper on this...) esp for girls in more conservative societies they cna maybe replace themselves in the character? but they may not feel a threat as a woman or like their life will fall apart if they engage in sexual things with anyone really. and that’s where i’m like....for a lot of these are they just writing a story and just replacing two men? bc they also seem to think it owrks like that. and in a way that’s what it is bc of the writing and how they use certain terms. you can tell the piece is about pushing a product and less about the real affects of a story. i think ITSAY is a great example of a really intelligent great piece of work that contains multitudes. and the girl was amazing. it just depends on the goal. and for most of the ppl the goal isnt...to do anything. so i dont know. idk how to talk abt representation anymore. it both is and isnt.

i really liked tingting from my engineer a lot (idk if u have seen) she’s so fun and unapologetic. i love how much she drinks and if someone tells her to be ladylike she says no. and i appreciate that in the show when girls were rude to her she said nothing about the girls but said “NO IM NOT LUCKY TO HAVE ALL MALE FRIENDS?” i really want to see her more in the next season. obviously tiffy is goat. super excited to see how their rship develops.

#we best love #lovely writer #we best love fighting mr 2nd

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therewas-a-girl · 7 years

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Ppl thinking oliver queen would have been better - liked/treated/his issues better respected - by fandom, if he had been a woman has me laughing at the… is it called paradox? Blatant nontruth of the statement?

Here are some easy examples of how this is not so:

Laurel lance (lol most heatedly hated character of arrow for a myriad for reasons, at least half of them sexist bullshit the other ¼ shipper bullshit; had some shit writing which is always taken as a character trait and for which SHE is blamed for; had a depression arc, is an addict, after all the times shes been kidnapped abused and beaten probably has some form of lingering effect from all the… u know… trauma + the emotional upheaval that has been her life for the last 10 years. And yet - still loathed and her issues are negated and belittled at every turn. Always misinterpreted, rarely afforded the luxury of viewer empathy; favorite fandom strawoman usually)

Sara lance (ptsd from all the fucked up shit the league put her through amd that she went through before that, which was very visible when she was on arrow. Probably dealt with some for of sexual harassment/threats of violence/violence when she was on the Amazo, which we never explicitly saw thank god. A good portion of Olicity fans dispise her cause ship reasons, same with lauriver fans. Who is the REAL black canary discourse is still going strong btw, which inevitably generates hate on either of the lance sisters side. Saras bisexuality is constantly erased or denied or treated as sth tintillating for the straight male gaze; she is slutshamed at every corner; ppl hardly can be bothered to remember that she was actually suicidal at one point, that she thought she was not worthy of love or capable of love or of being with someone - HUGE CHARACTER MOMENT HERE - when she broke up with oliver usually dismissed/forgotten cause felicity walks in the room so most of the olicity fandom - big portion of arrow fandom - 9 times out of 10 doesnt bother to remember that sara was talking about herself here)

- yes shipper tendencies matter, they shape character perceptions.

Bonus: thea queen (neglected by her mother, abused physically and emotionally by her monster father, has some serious issues with violence, probably ptsd-related avoidance for it, the mask, her old life. Has utterly detatched from a whole side of her personality and history, something that was intrinsic to her for 2 years, and yet nobody sees that as eyebrow-raising worthy for some reason cause that is what a tots normal person would do. The almost oliver-like split of the sides of her life/personality is mentione…. how many times in fandom? The metas are where? Maybe ive just missed them. Okay. Oh i almost forgot - was stabbed and just about died. But she got over that, right? Which has nothing to do with the bloodlust, by the way. Thats from the Pit. Trauma outlasts the bloodlust. And yet whenever she displays behaviour that is consistent with some kind of post-traumautic symptoms/behaviour… she is bitchy or ungrateful or whiny or being a child again. Literally do not know how to go on with this one)

Extra bonus: felicity smoak. How much felicity’s trauma was aknowleged = she has all kinds of traumatic shit happen to her, including but not limited to near-death experinces, and yet the effect this had on her is nearly nonexistent in big fandom spaces. Sunshine felicity yay! Supporting and taking care of oliver. Yay. Always the light to guide his way. Untarnished. Y. A. Y. (Feel my burning enthusiasm for this interpretation. But thats my preference and of no consequence here.) And the moment it was “officially” aknowleged that a ptsd arc would be explored with her (which is, imo, still a euphemism, or a gross misusage of this very serious illness /that they cant be bothered to portray right on a woman/) - the same ppl that say ‘olivers mental illness is disrespected cause he is male’ were all about (paraphrasing here) “olivers LONG LASTING and X YEAR LONG ptsd is as valid as felicitys NEWLY CONCOCTED/FRESHLY CREATED ptsd” …somehow managing to insult the both of them and imply that the years one lives with an illness give u a sort of precedence and ‘elder card’ in the club. ‘Empathy should go first HERE where its mooore…’ more what? I just dont know how to continue this. needed? Valid? I dont know man. I mean, by works of logic the obvious non-truth of the beginning statement of this post is encapsulated by this last example. But lets be thorough.

Look there are layers. Olivers character deals with shit writing sometimes and horrifying demonisation of his mental illness FROM THE WRITERS OF HIS OWN SHOW. And there is a shitton of ableism in fandom about him.

But if he’d been a woman… my dude… my guy… my pal…. experience shows fandom generally, not as separate ppl but as a block unit, (fandom currents? Fandom tendencies?) have *lower* empathy for women and their narratives (e.i. a lot **less** 29596k word metas about why he does the things he does, trying to explain away the writing holes would be floating around). Lower patience for their fuckups. Lower imagination for their inner lives and even lower willingness to search them out. The show itself would have a lower interest in exploring these issues, as they have shown it to be the tendency with female characters.

Oliver queen is human, he fucks up, he has a deep inner life and his trauma has far reaching shockwaves. All those are characteristics we assume him to have, as default, cause hes a WHITE MALE presented as straight. Who has to contend with bullshit ableism, sure, and fandome expectations colored by toxic masculinity, which canon doesnt even support. But he would have faaaar more prejudices to contend with if he were female. All those assumptions - of hidden logical reasons, depths, triggers etc - up there wouldnt even go halfway if hed been a woman, or not white or, god forbit, a woman of color.

(Dude can u imagine the shitstorm of slutshaming that would hit a female!oliver for sleeping with a *fraction* of the number of ppl oliver has slept with??? In canon he has always had emotional ties or reasons for sleeping with every single one of his partners whether fandom likes it or not, and STILL he is called a manwhore, as if he only thinks with his dick. Even oliver isnt afforded brains and emotions when it comes to sexual agency. It baffles me.

But im willing to bet that it would be worse if he were a woman because the reason for dumbing him down would go from ‘i want to belittle all these other relationships he has so that THIS ONE SHIP shines thru’, to straight up sexism and womens agency over their bodies and emotions. Case in point ppl were calling felicity a plethora of disgusting epithets for sleeping with ray (ONE MAN) when she was a FREE BEING WITH AN INDEPENDENT WILL tied to !!!nobody but herself!!!, just cause she didnt plant olivers name on her ladyparts from the moment she first saw him. (Lets also admit that shipper reasons are present here too but the difference is that in olivers case, his sexing up other ppl lowers olicity’s value cause hes not devoted enough and whatnot. In felicitys case, her sexing up other ppl lowers *felicity’s* ‘value’ because… do i rly need to explain why here? Hint - It ties back to the ‘pure felicity oliver’s light’ argument and the dehumanization of her character by making her the literal object of olivers salvation and therefore nullifying/ridiculing her choices if they make her path deviate from olivers.) Ppl are saying Laurel would be betraying tommys memory by loving oliver still - TOMMYS MEMORY. a man whos been dead for *four years* matters more than a live womans feelings. Just… christ…)

#personal #negativity #pure vitriol yes #ps: my personal stance is and will always be that all issues of everyone involved in an interaction are always valid #and they will always explain to u the reasosn for these actions #but these reasons - mental illness. abandonment. neglect all of them - will never justify the wreckage #a characyer or ppl cause #mentaly ill ppl are as responsable for the hurt they deal out as evetybody else and there are differnet ways to adapt to #each other when both or three pll or a family is made up of fucked up individuals #but in the end as long as the discussion progresses in a way that shows that wveryone matters #its gonna be okay #this is to say that i will never fu king stan for amy character ever because i have see it time and again that it blinds ppl #to the humnity of other characters and just overall doesnt make for a good writing or researching tecnique #it throws everyoing far out of balance #but i will alwas write for ppl whose stories are never told. because what is the point of not doing so #and seriously this post is pure wank #im not bitter. i say bitterly. with a bitter expression.

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