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onyxbird · 2 years

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These are my thoughts about fan content clarifying what fandom values about a work that I mentioned in a response to @trivalentlinks.

The optimistic side of this post is that I think there is value in fan content forming a record for whoever chooses to look (even if that's only other fans), in the form of thousands of fanfics and fanart and fanposts, that these are the things fandom got out of a source work that made them love it. These are the versions of the characters that fans loved (or hated), whether or not that's quite what the writers/actors/etc. intended. These are the story beats that resonated so well that fans delve into them over and over and over, and these are the ones that flopped and get "fixed" again and again.

However a lot of the stuff below the cut is more pessimism and frustration about the crudeness of the "dialog," such as it is, between fandom and creators, using Leverage/Leverage Redemption as an example. I have no real answers, here.

Mostly, the thing is gets me is that 1) I know viewer numbers and ratings are what drive decision-making in TV/movie production and 2) on the viewer's end, the choice to watch or not watch a show/movie/whatever is such an incredibly crude, binary signal about something that so much factors into.

So taking Leverage as the example, since that's what touched this discussion off, imagine if Leverage Redemption just tanks next season. Lots of people who tuned in when season 1 launched stop watching. The obvious question that a lot of people are going to be asking is why. When Leverage originally aired, it was clearly popular enough to get 5 seasons and to eventually spawn a sequel series, and enough people started watching Redemption to get a second season greenlit, so the question would be what changed?

If you're looking solely at the show end to try to diagnose viewership/ratings trends, there are quite a few changes that could factor into reception, both obvious and subtle, and very limited "signal" from just numeric viewing/ratings data. Some of those changes are (all stuff I recall seeing discussed in fanposts in one form or another, BTW):

They became an Amazon production. They killed off Nate. They added Harry. They added Breanna. They made Sophie the Mastermind. They moved the setting to New Orleans. Hardison was away for most of the season. They gave Eliot a multi-episode love interest for the first time. They shifted the focus more towards the way the powerful can twist the system to their own ends to legally screw people over (linked to Harry's incorporation in the team). They had a more diverse pool of clients for the crew. They went little further over the realism line into the fantastical (e.g., literally talking guards to sleep). They seemed to explicitly refute the OT3 dynamic ("robot bodies" scene). They made a number of smaller, possibly unintended characterization changes to established characters (e.g., various stuff with Parker's portrayal). And, separate from Leverage Redemption itself, a local Portland news outlet put out an article (which doesn't appear to have been picked up by any wider news outlets) about alleged sexual harassment/assault on Electric Entertainment productions, including Leverage.

Lots of changes, both large and small. Some changes I think were excellent. Some were not. Some were non-ideal for the show, but obviously limited by circumstance (e.g., working around Aldis Hodge's availability). With (I hope) the exception of the abuse allegations, I suspect every change on my list has some fans who like it, some who hate it, and some who don't really care.

So… how would you figure out what accounted for a hypothetical drop in ratings/viewers?

In the absence of any direct feedback about what the fans are saying (or expressing through other fandom participation), there would be a lot of guesswork. The show is very centered around the crew, so I would guess the impact of cast changes would be a major objective change to look at. The original crew was well-liked in OG Leverage, so they'd probably assume no problems with returning cast. (Fans perceived some changes to how the OG crew were portrayed, but those are relatively subtle/subjective and likely not deliberate on the show's part.) Harry is a newcomer, but Noah Wyle was a core character in The Librarians, which also got 4 seasons, so I doubt him turning off fans would be the first guess. That leaves removing Tim Hutton (well-established actor, central to previous well-received series, resulted in major restructuring of crew once removed) and adding Aleyse Shannon (who seems to have fairly few previous roles) as major cast changes. (If the "Silence on the Set" article had gotten more press and really blown up, then that might make the list of possible reasons for turning people off, but I have only seen that discussed on Tumblr so far, and it appears to be only the one local article in a location they don't seem to be filming in anymore.)

Now, from what I've seen in the Tumblr fandom (both on my dash and in the main leverage tag), my impression is that people here largely think removing Nate was the right choice (either because of the allegations against Hutton or because Nate's arc had ended or both) and adore Breanna and her casting. But to know that, you have to look at what fans are saying and/or how they're engaging with the fandom rather than just looking at the fact that the new line-up isn't holding viewership. Otherwise, you might conclude, e.g., that getting rid of the (older, white, male) Mastermind and bringing in a young, queer, woman-of-color geek were a mistake for the show's popularity.

In terms of fanfic (the topic of the other post), I've seen people remark before about how little "fix-it fic" there is for Leverage. In terms of the changes in Leverage Redemption, I certainly haven't seen much, if any, fic that brings Nate back. I've seen plenty of fic that's enthusiastic about both Breanna and Harry. I have seen fic "fixing" the OT3 or having Parker do more masterminding or keeping Hardison in closer contact, suggesting that those are things that people genuinely did think were problems with the new setup.

Another obvious takeaway from the Leverage fanfic/fan content in general is that the Leverage fandom loves Eliot, but from the fic and posts I've read, my impression is that the Eliot the fandom loves is one who would never do the kind of shit Christian Kane is accused of. E.g., the fan content often delves more deeply into Eliot's bloody, ex-hitman past than the show ever has, while at the same time "Parker and/or Hardison have to practically sit Eliot down for a Powerpoint presentation to convince him they are romantically/sexually interested in him, too, because otherwise he will never make a move to avoid crossing their boundaries" is practically its own Leverage fic genre.

Now, are the creators/producers/etc. going to come to Tumblr and AO3 to figure out why their show is or is not doing well? Likely not, especially not AO3. (In this specific case, perhaps more likely than for other shows, since I think at least one of the creators has explicitly mentioned writing fanfic themselves.) But I do think there is value in the fandom talking about what they do like, what was done well, in addition to the things that make them walk away from watching further, even if the only people listening are other fans.

Leverage/Leverage Redemption isn't the only place where I have this frustration, BTW. I had a lot of fun with the MCU, before Infinity War/Endgame killed a lot of my enjoyment. And then, of course, they start rolling out a lot stuff following more diverse heroes, etc., whether that's highlighting already-established side characters (Sam Wilson, Black Widow), stuff that I'd never heard of before (e.g., Moon Knight; Shang Chi), and stuff that I had heard of and wanted to do well (e.g., Ms. Marvel, one of my cousin's favorite comics). And I just want to shake the people in charge and say "Why didn't you feature these characters before you soured me on the franchise as a whole? I didn't stop wanting to watch because you shifted away from white male superheroes. Now, if ratings go down, you're probably going to say people just don't want to watch [POC/Muslim/mentally ill/etc.] main characters, and that's not it at all."

I'm not really arguing that the fandom version of the show is actually going to get back to the creators/people deciding show funding/etc. and influence their decision-making or have a tangible impact on the way mainstream media operates, outside of (perhaps) explicit reviews of the work. I'm not arguing that people should continue to make fanworks for this reason, or should continue supporting shows just to avoid creators drawing the wrong conclusions. I'm just saying I find it comforting that there is a record out there, in all the fan content, of what it was about these works that spoke to people. And of what, in the show universe, put them off enough to warrant discussion or fix-its. I just think it matters.

#ethics of fandom #(sort of)#silence on the set #leverage

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yesokayiknow · 1 year

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yknow what i think the doctor should make a lil pamphlet of all their most prolific enemies and hand them out to every new companion i'm tired of them getting everyone killed bc they don't know what a dalek is

#doctor who #i understand this is impossible for the angels and the silence but they could get around it #literally irresponsible #like setting someone loose in a rainforest without telling them what the poisonous frogs look like

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triplecreature · 7 days

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actually I'm kind of curious about this because it was a huge debate among my peers in my community

Clarifications under the cut:

The poster is in a public space where it is typical for everyday people to post things. It is not someone's private property or possession. Think piece of paper taped to a telephone pole, not sign in a storefront or in someone's yard.

The poster is not protected by law; you are very unlikely to face legal consequences for vandalizing it. Caveat: some peers have argued that it risks being socially consequential because an organization or demographic that you are a part of may be judged as intolerant/oppressive/disruptive/otherwise unpleasant if people witness your actions, and thus advocated against vandalism for fear of damaging your public image.

The poster is not an expensive or personal piece of artwork; it is a mass produced print on letter paper.

You are vehemently opposed to the message displayed on the poster, but it is an opinion that people are free to have in your country.

The 4th option refers to things like intentionally putting your own poster over top of the bad poster or otherwise making the bad poster harder to view; some people argued that targeting the poster for removal is out of line, but posting your own messages is an innocent action that you are well within your right to do (in this context, posters regularly eclipse each other as new ones are posted over top of outdated ones due to limited space)

The poster is part of a campaign; it's not unique. There are many postings of it across the community.

This is all assuming that the offending poster is not old and would typically not be considered fair game for pruning for quite some time, and that it is being specifically targeted for removal because of its message (rather than petty vandalism or because it's obstructive or damaged). E.g., if a poster is advertising an event happening on April 20th, it's typical to prune it after that date but not before.

Of course the situation that prompted the real life debate did involve a specific offending message, but I'm not going to specify what it was for now because I think it'll skew the results as people will just end up voting based on whether they like or dislike that message, which isn't the point of this. For this poll we are assuming that it IS a message that you are very opposed to; you can substitute in your own opinion that you have strong feelings about.

Please reblog for sample size!

#my og opinion was that it wasn't that deep. it's just a paper poster. and if it's promoting evil then it should go #i did trash 2 posters before i even found out that the issue was being hotly debated. didnt really think too hard about it #on one end there were people congratulating me and on the other were people saying that it's out of line + sets a really bad precedent #like in a “you are silencing the opposition and that's playing dirty. i dont agree either but they are legally free to express this” way #meanwhile still others argue that actually you have a moral duty to get rid of things that explicitly promote evil ideas #and some said that since we are a minority group we should avoid scandal and not provoke people into hating us. which i never thought about #anyway i am curious what other people think since i can see the merit in all the viewpoints #my posts

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iphigeniacomplex · 7 months

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breaking my silence on chess the musical to say that i would literally not give a fuck about this show if i thought it was good or fully successful at what it is saying. SORRY! i love how messy she is. i love how since 1984 and continuing to this very day people with entirely different perceptions of and opinions on the musical have attempted in their own ways to "make it good" by creating all these different versions with like notably different plots, characterization, and song order, and i love how fucking bad the vast majority of these are despite it all. i hope people keep trying to fix chess the musical forever and until the end of time. i hope no one ever figures it out. i want every currently living theatre director in existence to make their own version and for all these versions to come out on broadway at the same time, making that year's musical season entirely comprised of various different versions of the cold war chess musical by tim rice and half of abba. i want not only our greatest minds but also our middlest-of-the-road and worst minds to come up with their own conclusions as to why chess does not entirely work in its original form or any subsequent forms like to really think about it and yes i do want someone to dedicate their entire life to perfecting chess by releasing version after version after version until they die peacefully but still, as always, in the grips of obsession. i want marriages to be broken up. i want mental states to be shattered. i dream of this world

#it speaks!#ive said this on another platform but i dont like using that platform none of my friends are there. so you all get the expanded version.#pearl's chess rant: deluxe edition. and im not even finished.#i want at least one intrepid director to do what ppl do with shakespeare and set it in a completely different era ->#<- & change the central political conflict but not enough so its still like. well now this is about medieval feudalism why is it also ->#<- still about a chess proxy war ... that just makes no sense. it just doesnt make sense ........#'breaking my silence on chess the musical' sam knows i think about it still. but for the purposes of public appearance. you understand.#chessposting #chess the musical #<- real ones know i rarely maintag but i want all seven active chess fans to see this bc i need their insights

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happylikeasadsong · 7 months

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i have a question! (but is mostly me rumbling)

i genuinely wanna know why this was one of the first promo photos to come out if they weren't hiting a sydcarmy at least something not so *platonic* in season 2? (granted, this scene is featured in the first episode of season 2)

bear with me (pun intended)

this photo just might have confirmed them with capital letters, cause...

why would they give us this photo? this scene????

"uhmm, w-what are you gonna..."

silence. they stare at each other. then,

"i have no idea"

he doesn't wanna go home, he's dragging this moment in their little moment. He wonders if he can do anything to just not go home. Maybe he can do something, he can do something with sydney and just not go home, but i think maybe he knows it feels diferent somehow (why it doesn't come out as easy as when he so nonchalantly just asked if she wanted to work on his apartment?)

the scene alone has so many unspoken things, i mean, you could NOT convince me that carmy wasn't about to ask her out here! the pauses? the silence? the awkwardness between them? his face watching her leave? him froze in place thinking about how he messed that up? I could literally hear carmy's loud as hell thoughts from the other side of the screen!

this wasn't just two colleagues naturally asking what the other is up to after work for a pint, this is something else.

and then later we see him anxious at his apartment, thinking about work work work (he really didn't want to come back alone to his apartment, huh?) and then he comes back and syd and nat are already there thinking the same as him.

but mostly, i just wonder why this scene in the begining of the season. we see most series and movies using the narrative principle called chekov's gun, which is according to google: 'any seemingly unimportant element that becomes significant later on in the story.' i like to think that fits perfectly in this case where we see an interesting dynamic between them in the begining of the season, syd's come back to the bear and carmy can't be doing the shit he was doing in s1, so yeah, something's changed (specifically in this scene where carmy is very awkward around her. why?).

having that in mind, we later see carmy then go on to date claire, feel something's not right, have a panic attack, only to maybe put a name to what he was feeling in episode 1, hence, his very own chekov's gun.

idk, maybe you guys have a more reasonable answer to this, but i'm thinkng these thoughts lately

#the silence was LOUD LOUD #carmy was finally ask her out but he couldn't #at least not now i mean #he has some personal growth to do #but was gonna do though #we need to be talking more about this scene #this set the season for me in a way #this photo literally lived in my head rent free before the season came out #sydcarmy #carmy x sydney #sydney adamu #carmen berzatto #the bear #the bear meta

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onyxbird · 2 years

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This isn't the post I'd been planning to make about my tagging system, but given the Silence on the Set article that went around recently, I want to note a few things for filtering purposes.

Main point 1: Tagging source works is probably the most consistent part of my tagging system. Going forward, I intend to be particularly conscientious about this for Electric Entertainment shows, so people can avoid those as desired. The relevant work tags for the EE shows I have posted about are: #leverage, #leverage aus, #leverage redemption, #the librarians, and #almost paradise.

I sometimes tag specific characters by name or character relationships, but that is less consistent and generally in addition to the relevant work tag, so the work tags would be more reliable for filtering. I also try to tag actors/celebrities by name for content outside the context of a direct role (e.g., interviews, news about them, etc.).

Main point 2: I will probably resume posting some amount Leverage content going forward. At the moment, that article is still very much on my mind with respect to Leverage content, so I'm not at all sure how much I'm likely to engage with other than intending to reblog a few fanart posts I've seen. However, I wanted to mention that some of that content is probably coming back so people have a chance to filter as needed.

Some additional thoughts on point 2 below the cut.

The allegations in that article are deeply disturbing and disappointing, and they're all the more of a gut punch due to the contrast between the real-life mistreatment of crew and what I took away from Leverage in general and the character of Eliot Spencer in particular. I've certainly rethought my support of the company, e.g., I'm no longer interested in finishing Almost Paradise as I had previously intended, and my habit of going to the EE streaming site to watch an episode on a whim or check some episode detail rather than pull out my DVDs is definitely going to stop.

At the same time, there is a lot of good about Leverage that I haven't found in other shows and a huge number of other people that contributed to making it what it was. One of the things I've struggled to reconcile since reading that article was how people responsible for that behavior/work environment created that show and that character. I think part of the answer is that a lot of people contributed to making the show great, while sexual harassment only has to be condoned/dismissed by relatively few people in authority to fester unchecked (ironically, the same problem embodied by a lot of the series' villains), and that another part of the answer is fandom interpretations improving on what was there. (Plus a bit of "good art isn't always created by good people," I'm sure, but the part that baffles me is how much it seems directly contrary to things I loved about the show and character.)

The fandom, and the amazing art and stories and interpretations that it has generated, is what I hope to keep engaging with. I wish everyone the best in figuring out what you're comfortable with on this.

If you have specific content you'd like to see tagged rather than blacklisting the whole show tag, you're welcome to ask, although I can't make any guarantees (I don't think my consistency with subjective tagging is very good).

#silence on the set #tagging #leverage

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2-dsimp · 1 month

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The Boss would be insufferable to be around, always sighing and mourning over not getting his latest dosage of pure perfection on his phone screen. If he wasn’t already lazy before you’d mistake him for being the embodiment sin of Sloth.

“It’s been 1 day, 6 hours, 24 minutes, and T-minus 30 seconds since they last posted anything...”

Danny droned, as he stared longingly at past pictures and video clips of his darling. His slender fingers trailing across the digital contours of your figure with a needy trembling pout of his chapped lips.

“that’s the same amount of time my life started to fail in having any meaning”

He finished with a stray crocodile tear collecting ruefully within his nonexistent tear ducts. That dried up from pulling all nighters obsessing over your page and any anime fandoms that could take his mind off you (to which none of them did).

All of the remaining hitman members merely eyed their leader in either exasperation, amusement, or just plain old disappointment for being such a sad waste of space.

It got so bad to the point where he’d just be found around random spots in the hideout glued to the floor like a dead corpse.

His phone clutched within a death grip as he was surrounded by picture posts that he printed out from your social media. Almost as if he was preforming a self sacrificial ritual to evoke your page to give him an update on what you were doing.

To be blunt Danny would just be a sad sap without you, leaving his team to pick up the slack and set out individually to bring you back. If only to shut up their Boss from whining depressive monologues about how he was useless without his darling to fanboy over. And get his ass to start working like an actual decent human being.

#Danny the boss #yandere imagines #yandere male x reader #yandere x you #yandere drabble #yandere male #yandere scenarios #yandere oc #yandere x reader #yandere blurb #yandere hitman #yandere boss #💜 anon #yes he would be the type to have a weeb shrine of you #but he’d absolutely be getting cold feet on abducting you #it’s not the kidnapping part that puts him off it’s the part where you’re awake leaving him to try a bring you up to speed with why you’re #currently stranded in an unfamiliar setting that you’re mot accustomed to #The thought of you just staring at him in pure silence makes him sweat bullets and gets him nervous to the point where he’d rather stick hi #head under the ground like an ostrich since he doesn’t have the ability to deal with being bombarded with numerous questions and demands

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mutable-manifestation · 1 year

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Summer Vacation Summoning Shenanigans 2

idk when the batcave gets a Laz pit but the answer here is ‘not yet’ bc reasons

***

By the time Danny’s duplicate returns to him, Robin has finished - very thoroughly - tying up his captive ninja. And was now staring him down.

Red had moved to texting someone after ensuring Danny was belted in and putting the plane on some kind of autopilot - which, very cool.

He hadn’t been bored, though, looking over the plane interior with glee.

While the exterior design was…a bit much, the inside was sleek and high-tech. It was no rocketship, but going over which controls were similar and which differed and trying to guess what they all did was plenty entertaining.

He was less than half-way through them when he re-merged with his duplicate.

Luckily, Red and Robin were still occupied by that point, giving him time to focus on sifting through the memories.

He tries to stifle his laughter, disguising an escaped snort by pretending to cough into his fist.

Red apparently chooses that moment to be done with his phone (and damn, he sent some poor sob a book).

“Sorry about that; I had to update Batman.”

Danny let himself laugh at that.

“Bat-man? Not, like, Birdman or something?”

“Nope, the bat himself. Speaking of which; I was hoping you’d be willing to answer some questions?”

Robin chose that moment to plop into the seat next to Danny, who looked at him in askance.

“His vitals have stabilized; the tranquilizer has fully kicked in. There is no more need to worry about a surprise escape; by the time he awakes we will be back in Gotham.”

Danny hummed.

“So like, are you just dropping him off first? Or was the ‘taking me home’ thing a play on words that actually just meant ‘kidnapping me take 2: electric boogaloo?’ I mean, you don’t even know where I live; my place could be closer to here than to Gotham.”

“Your accent resembles nothing of Nanda Parbat,” Robin says.

Red picks up after him.

“No, no, we’re taking you back to your home,” he clarifies, shaking his head and x-ing his arms. “You’re from somewhere in the mid-western United States, right? Gotham is the first US city we’d hit flying this path.”

“Illinois,” he answers, squinting in thought as he searches his memory for a ‘Gotham’ or a ‘Nanda Parbat,’ which, ha, ‘Par-bat.’ “I take it we’re somewhere in, like, Europe or something?”

The Robins share a look.

“Where is the last place you remember being before you were kidnapped?” Red asks.

“Illinois,” Danny shrugs, settling back in his seat. “Anyway, you can just drop me near Chicago or something and I’ll take it from there.”

Red huffs a laugh. “No need for that. I gave Batman your name and description; he’ll have coordinates to where you need to go in no time.”

“Well, that’s…” ‘Inconvenient,’ he thinks to himself, hoping for the first time that this is actually a different universe so he doesn’t have to come up with an explanation to cover for how he somehow ended up abroad without including the whole ‘being summoned’ thing.

The last thing he needs is to give them a reason to put him through the Ghost Catcher.

“...nice,” he settles on. Unconvincingly.

“Do you know why you were taken?” Robin presses.

Danny opens his mouth to answer, but pauses.

“Yep!” he concludes, eyes crinkling with his smile. “I’ll even answer that question if you answer one of mine first.”

The smaller Robin narrows his eyes suspiciously, Red asking “What question?”

He turns away from Normal Robin to look at Red Robin.

“What’s up with the ‘flying things’ theme?”

Red slow blinks, Danny can practically hear the dial-up noise.

He was probably expecting worse in exchange for ‘hey what does the murder club want?’

The smaller Robin answers while he is collecting himself.

“The Robin title is inherited, passed down from the first. It is a reference to the costume colors. Batman chose his name and costume as a symbol of fear, to intimidate the criminals of Gotham.”

“Oooooh, so it’s like a gang thing!”

Red Robin makes a choking noise.

“What!? NO! I- that- we’re heroes! Batman is a founding member of the Justice League!” He manages, face painted in disbelief.

Robin, for his part, remains silent - though a brief glance out of the corner of his eyes reveals a pinched expression.

“Oh, right,” he nods along, deciding he is definitely not still in the same universe. Sweet, no worries about hiding the ghost powers then, especially since heroes were apparently enough of a thing to have some kind of support group or something.

“So does that mean you have bird-powers?”

“No,” Robin says. “And you haven’t answered my question yet.”

“Ah, right, Ra’s’ thing. He said he was trying to summon the ‘Lord of the Dead,’” Danny does air quotes along with the far-too-pretentious-title. Honestly, ‘Ghost King’ was bad enough.

“The ‘Lord of the Dead?’” Red echoes. “Summon? As in, with circles and blood-sacrifices and magic.”

“Yep,” Danny pops the p. “I wouldn’t worry too much though. He’ll probably be distracted trying to un-kidnap this guy and deal with whatever had his other guys running around like chickens with their heads cut off for a while yet.”

---------------------

Tim had left a call open to the batcave so the rest could listen in, and after Danny’s incredibly alarming answers about Ra’s’ current goal it was no doubt exploding with texts and suggestions in the groupchat. Good thing he muted it fully.

He feels a bit bad interrogating the guy, but time and memory don’t go well together. People often dismiss as unimportant things that are actually the key to breaking a case; the more thorough their questions, the more likely they prompted a memory that would give them the answers they needed.

Unfortunately, Danny didn’t seem to know much.

“Did Ra’s say anything about who this ‘Lord of the Dead’ is? Or why they were trying to summon him?”

“Nope!” Danny smiled. “Nothing about - who aside from the title, of course - or why, just that they did want to summon him. If you guys don’t have bird powers, what powers do you have?”

“We are not enhanced beyond what the average healthy human could achieve, though we are all highly trained in combat - some more than others - and skilled in detective work. We rely on skill, research, and preparation.”

And on and on; Danny giving uninformative answers then asking a question for each they’d asked on their ‘turn,’ and them giving carefully vague answers of their own.

One consolation is that he didn’t seem bored.

For someone who claimed to have woken up less than an hour ago on the wrong side of the planet he’s just…relaxed. Calm. Seemingly unaffected, down to his microexpressions.

No signs of shock.

Of course, he’d treated the Lazarus Pit as a kiddie pool.

And despite his words, he’d shown no recognition at the mention of the Justice League, and around half of his questions thus far had been about them.

Clearly something was up with him; whatever it was would probably explain the self-assurance.

He’d escaped from the League before they’d even known he was kidnapped, afterall. Tim and Damian really only solved the final hurdle for him. Even with most of LoA distracted with something, it was still impressive that he’d manage to slip whatever restraints and guard they’d undoubtedly had him under.

Which is, of course, when Damian asks.

“How did you manage to escape?”

Danny shrugs.

“Have you ever seen that thing that coyotes do where they get their leg stuck in a beartrap or something and they gnaw it off to escape?” he says, expression unmoved.

“You are a meta, then,” Damian concludes while Tim just stares at Danny in horror.

At that, Danny’s expression changes.

“A what?” he squints, uncomprehending.

“A meta - or metahuman - is someone with a meta-gene, which grants them superpowers. Like how Flash is so fast: that’s his meta ability,” Tim says. “You still had all your limbs when you…dove into-”

“Wait, wait, back up,” Danny interrupts. “To be clear: I did not gnaw off a limb. That was meant to be a joke. So Flash is a ‘meta.’ Is that, like, common?”

Tim was beginning to suspect this guy either had memory loss, was an unlucky alien who only landed recently - just in time to get kidnapped by the League of Assholes - or was just really sheltered.

He’d also suspect some kind of Pit demon, given where and how they found him, but he has so far been nothing but polite and cooperative - if a bit…chaotic. In terms of questions he’s asked.

“I’m kind of surprised they bothered to form a group if there are so few people with powers,” Danny mused after Damian filled him in on the statistics. “Especially if most of them are as minor as you said.”

“Even just one person with strong powers can spell disaster if left unchecked - the League aids response times in that regard. Besides, it’s not like metas are all there is to pay attention to - there are plenty of villains without meta abilities, intergalactic politics to deal with-”

“Intergalactic? Are you guys doing things in space!?”

Danny was suddenly very close, nose just a hair's breadth from touching Tim’s own.

He swallows quietly.

“Ah, occasionally? G-green Lantern is. A Green Lantern. They’re basically space cops, so that’s…more his thing. Though a previous Robin did have to deal with a Gordanian-Tamaranean conflict affecting a Tamaranean ally - Starfire.”

Danny leans away - just a bit - as he speaks, seemingly basking in the information like a cat in a sunbeam.

“You’re allies with an alien? Ancients,” he breathes. “There are aliens. So cool.”

“Tch, of course there are. I already informed you of Superman,” Damian huffs, causing Danny to whip towards him.

“Superman is an alien!?”

They’d also mention Batman and Superman being close allies, which apparently inspired Danny to let loose the sea of questions he’d been holding back.

“What’s his species called? Is Superman a translation of his actual alien name? You never showed me a picture; does he look human or is he totally different? What’s his planet like? Have you been there? Is he comfortable in Earth’s atmosphere or does he have to use environment-adjusting equipment? Or is it well suited to him? Is that why he has powers, actually? Because the difference in planet allows him to thrive? Or are they an inherent trait in his species? What’s his culture like? You said Green Lantern was ‘A Green Lantern;’ is he an alien too? Or is that the space cops’ names? Are most space cops aliens? What about the Tamaranean person - Starfire? And the Gordanians? Where are they all from are they all from the Milky Way or are some extra-galactic do they allhaveenvironmentalneedssimilartoorlessthanhumanscantheysurviveinthevacuumofSPACE-”

---------------------

Once they get Danny to pause for breath - which takes an impressively long time - they promise to answer his questions with a gentle reminder that they’re supposed to take turns asking things.

If Danny was cooperative before, he’s downright eager now. He listens with near-religious awe to every answer they gave.

When it’s their turn to ask a question he becomes unnervingly still and stares with an intensity that has Tim half-concerned they’ll catch on fire for every second they aren’t talking - though luckily between himself and Damian the pauses are minimal.

His answers are both more detailed and more focused.

If they ask if he saw any information about the summoning ritual, he only mentions catching a glimpse of ‘the summoning room.’ Asking what the room looked like nets a description of the columns’ styles and the general vibes, asking what things he saw in the room got them an exhaustive list, but if they wanted further detail they had to ask specifically about the item in question.

He had an awful lot of details for a guy who only ‘caught a glimpse.’

He also refused to give them details about what the circle looked like because ‘for all I know you could be lying about everything you’ve said so far and planning to use me in your own ritual as a sacrifice to summon the Lord of the Dead.’

He and Damian spend a few of their turns opening the internet on the batplane’s front window and showing him some articles and videos about themselves, Batman, Gotham, and the JL to get them to trust him.

He eventually says he’ll describe the circle to them if he can meet an alien.

Appealing to his sense of self-preservation by explaining the information would increase their odds of stopping Ra’s does not help, nor does appealing to his sense of ‘helping others.’

It’s an introduction or the highway.

Not the worst outcome, given how many aliens they know.

The rest of the flight is spent like this.

---------------------

Danny is having quite possibly the best day of his half-life - and life, if he’s being honest.

Aliens! The universe he’s in has aliens! And he gets to meet one! Probably!

If Ra’s requests something that isn’t outright evil he’s honestly, genuinely considering granting it (in exchange for something, of course. Having a cool home universe is enough for maybe a deal, not for a freebie. Maybe he can ask for a regularly scheduled summoning to talk to the aliens? And all of the information Ra’s has and will ever have on aliens? Ooooh).

Not that he’s going to make it easy on him, of course.

And wow he is loving the information exchange with the Robins - they’re telling him about aliens and he just has to, what, describe a chandelier? A book? His opinion on the pool?

They ask a surprising number of questions about the pool.

He gets twin dead-eyed stares when he asks if they’re thinking of installing a bird bath - yeah it cost him an alien question but there are only so many pool-related questions he can answer while ignoring the joke hanging right there.

He had to.

When they finally land and exit into what looks like the inside of a high-tech barn, he can’t help but think they might just be sour that they didn’t think of it first.

“Not to be judgy, or anything, but I’m not really getting cave vibes here,” he comments as he descends the final step from plane to floor, looking up once he’s clear to watch the roof finish folding closed over their heads.

“Because this isn’t the cave,” an unfamiliar voice says, melting out of the shadows in a corner to reveal a purple-cloaked woman.

“Wait, let me guess: Purple Robin? Purple Bat? Peafowl?”

Purple snorts good-naturedly and shakes her head.

“All good guesses, space cadet, but wayyy off base. It’s Spoiler, non-flying thing name haver extraordinaire.” She dips into a dramatic bow, eyes crinkled in what, even without her mouth visible, was obviously a grin.

“Ehhhh…” Danny tilts a hand side-to-side. “Spoilers can technically fly if you crash a car hard enough.”

“By that logic everything can be considered a flying thing,” Robin frowned.

“Well the Earth is hurtling through space at around half a million miles per hour chasing the sun through an endless void with no ‘ground’ in sight….”

“Well!” Red Robin ends the brief silence that had inspired. “We should probably head to the batcave, but for security reasons we can’t let you see how we get there-”

“Hey, does this smell funny to you?” Spoiler asks, holding up a bottle of what was almost definitely chloroform.

He can see Red and Robins’ mask eyes widening (somehow) and makes the split second decision to lean forward and take a deep breath of the bottle being held just high enough for him to stick his nose over it.

“Citrusy,” he says before pretending to fall unconscious.

***

*Timmy Turner’s Dad’s voice* “I’m respecting reality by acknowledging that chloroform doesn’t work like that but asserting my authority as The Author by making it work like that anyway”

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Sorry if I missed anybody anyway here's part 2!

#dpxdc #chaotic summoned-by-Ra's Danny #Tag interlude #idk much about Spoiler except she's purple and kinda chaotic and maybe set of a gang war by accident once #Also idk if there’s already something like the sensory interference helmet or not #but if there isn’t: yes there is.#(think the thing that prevents superman hearing batman’s heartbeat [idk if that’s canon or fanon either tbh] but like #a helmet #Fucks with just the person wearing it - vision [the obvious one]#but also noise is silenced except something like an internal gyroscope thingy that messes with sense of direction #Idk #I'm not a scientist #Just roll with it #long post

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