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slumber--parties · 1 year

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The last episode and the way it put everything else in a new perspective still has me spiraling. I can see every single thing having 10 different meanings. So this is nothing definitive.

But I was reflecting on the fact that we know now that Louis is living in what is clearly Armand's apartment, what looks like a very constrained life.

And that just got me thinking about Claudia saying "his love is a small box he keeps you in", talking about Lestat. And we all made the visual connection to Louis and Lestat fitting in the same coffin and interpreted it as a metaphorical confirmation of Claudia's words. But Claudia didn't have the whole picture.

Thinking back on it, Lestat is certainly insanely possessive about Louis and - in that sense - will always limit his choices. But apart from that he never wanted for Louis to have a small life. He wanted to show him the world. He wanted him to escape the country that treated him so badly, the family that didn't understand him and live free of any worry. Of course he lacked a fundamental understanding about why Louis was never going to be able to do that and never put in the work to really get it. But the point is that Louis chooses to stay in New Orleans for his own reasons and to live the life he lives for his own reasons. It's more guilt than love that keeps him close to his human family after a while and the choice to continously strife against the racist American society is born out of his feelings of inadequacy and desire for recognition rather then an attempt at helping his people. We understand why he does it, but he is objectively destroying himself with his own hands. Being a vampire exacerbates some of this, but it was always there.

And at this point Lestat actually screams to him "this is not a life" because he at least recognizes what Louis is doing to himself. And yet he stays and he lives that life with him. Even when Louis is so depressed he is living like a shadow still Lestat stays. He may not act impeccably throughout but he does stay, despite this clearly not being the life he wanted.

And the point is that, while some of Lestat's behaviours ultimately worsen Louis's condition, the box in not their relationship per se imo. Or at least it's not the only box. It's at most a box within the box.

I think the box is more generally a representation of Louis's mind and the life Louis always ends up building for himself within the confines of his persisting depression.

And the show tells us that Lestat joins him in his box. It's always Lestat that goes to Louis's coffin and never the other way around. And it's always Louis that closes the locks. Even with the house they live in, it may technically be Lestat's, but I would argue it is ultimately Louis's. Lestat bought it for him and Louis keeps it in the divorce. And Lestat wants to leave New Orleans but they never do, until finally - when Antoinette offers - Lestat says that there's no place for him but New Orleans. And when Louis "kills" Lestat and they separate, sure Louis is "free". But Lestat also climbs out of a coffin.

I just think that AMC has done such a good job at recentering Louis in the narrative and not let him be overshadowed by other characters. It's true that "the box" is a really good metaphor for abusive relationships, but it's also a very good metaphor for depression and the fact that Louis continously creates boxes for himself out of any situation is also very interesting to me.

This also does not detract imo from all the ways in which Lestat actively contributes to making Louis life miserable. Before I get a bunch of hate, I am not saying Lestat is a saint and that Louis deserved what he got or anything like that.

I was just reflecting on the layers of the narrative themes and the way they are showing us why Louis and Lestat are so bound to each other. And I think it's interesting that, in their dynamic, while Lestat boxes Louis in with more overt control, you get the feeling that Lestat also feels boxed in by Louis simply because the hold his love for Louis has over him is such that he can't leave even when he is feeling trapped. And that Louis know this.

And while, again, Lestat has a lot to improve, don't you think it's refreshing that his role in the narrative is not to save Louis? That Louis is a character that has his own path outside of his relationships and this is his story. That the role of love is never to fix, but just to accompany. That sacrifices must be made for this. That in moments when it's unclear whether you will ever be able to climb out of your box, all you want is someone willing to stay there with you for a while. And that ultimately marriage is partly about giving up and preferring giving up infinite freedom by choosing to build your life around one person.

#or more than one if you are poly #but honestly they don't have this down #interview with the vampire #iwtv #iwtv spoilers #interview with the vampire spoilers

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nalyra-dreaming · 2 months

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Hello dear 👋🏻 Nar. I love your perspectives on iwtv . And the books too . There's something I have some problems with & I wanted to ask so I understand it fully .

There are some interpretations that Lestat loves it when Louis throws him around & fights with him physically , although I believe Lestat loved when Louis fought back he could also mean verbally & literary . I think the meaning of fighting back can also be interpreted as Louie's will & Louie's way of dealing with hardships in his Vamparic nature & towards Lestat about his Vamparic nature . But everyone thinks it's physically too because of Lestat's reaction to be thrown on the wall by Louis . Could it be something that Louis believes about Lestat & it's not actually something Lestat would love Louis do to him ?

Now according to Lestat's past about his father & brothers behavior towards him & Magnus throwing him & him getting hurt . Are we sure that Lestat loves it when Louis does that to him ? I feel like when we get to Lestat's POV this is also gonna be a bit different . Like Lestat doesn't like getting hurt or thrown to walls by Louis if it's not something sexual that excites him he might let Louis do that because he wanted to do it to him because he was angry by him .

Ps I know that Lestat himself hurt & throw people on the walls too but isn't the notion different when it's done to himself?

Hey!

Glad you like!

Hmmmmm. so I would think that Lestat... loves any and all attention that Louis lavishes on him in and by itself.

Like, he hates being ignored. He hates people reading and paying him no attention (hello, Gabrielle...) And Louis canonically withholds to exert control (not just over Lestat, but generally, over his life, over his hunger, over his emotions, etc., though he later knows very well how to handle Lestat as well.)

That clashes, obviously, in a rather unfortunate way, to put it simply.

So when Louis focuses on Lestat (in whichever way!) and maybe even lets go?! That is what Lestat wants.

He wants Louis to be fully realized, using and accepting his powers, and his life... and (ideally) focused on him.

So that is what I would say plays more into the "being thrown around and enjoying it" than any memories of Magnus or his own upbringing might. (For example, in the above scene: there would be pride also, because Louis can use that power.)

And as per that scene we saw in the teaser: I think it is important to remember that this is likely in Louis' mind - and it is canon Lestat starts to laugh in the most improper moments^^ So it will really depend on what Louis is imagining Lestat to laugh about there... and why.

PS: BTW is it just me or are these the same clothes????

#Anonymous #asks #ask nalyra #amc iwtv #iwtv #amc interview with the vampire #interview with the vampire amc #iwtv amc #iwtv 2022 #interview with the vampire #lestat de lioncourt #louis de pointe du lac #loustat #throwing #fighting #fighting back

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ashes-in-a-meadow · 2 years

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okay so this is gonna have SPOILERS so yeah don’t read if you don’t want them also warning that this is lowkey long sorry abt that i just typed whatever came to mind🤷🏽

okay so now that i’ve had a minute(and smoked some weed) i want to talk about lestat and what just clicked to me as the weed hit

okay so to start i want to make sure this is not read as apologizing or excusing what lestat did, i am simply explaining how i interpreted why he did what he did because this is not the time for lestat apologists to “uwu my baby didn’t mean it” this shit and if y’all do y’all weird asl…anyways on to my analysis(is that what this is??)

so my friend has said before she’s a very emotional person and when people hurt her feelings she’s said that she wants to physically hurt them the way they hurt her emotionally so they know how she feels and that immediately came to me as i was smoking and thought about how far lestat went when he was beating louis

to me it came off as, like my friend has said, he saw louis choosing claudia over him and then he desperately screams “louis!” and he lashed out on claudia for trying to take louis away, but then louis jumped on him and i think if we could’ve seen his face when it happened it would’ve been one of surprise and hurt that louis would do that right??

okay, so then he’s telling louis that he’s trying to hold back, but then he gives in and beats the shit out of him and idk it just came to as he was trying to hurt louis as much as he physically could to make louis feel like he felt emotionally

then when they flew up and lestat told louis to tell him that he’ll never love him and said that it would “make it easier”, he’s so used to people leaving him that he believes louis doesn’t love him and wants to hear it from his mouth so that he can “let him go” now do i think he would’ve actually killed louis?? nah, that man is down bad for louis, but do i think he would’ve let louis die?? yeah🤷🏽 he was so hurt and distraught that he would lose louis to claudia that he probably would’ve let it happen and then felt guilty about it later

also for everyone who thinks he doesn’t, louis does love lestat it’s fucking obvious but they don’t love the same way and that’s where the problem comes from between them, lestat fell in love with louis as soon as he met him but louis had been still learning to love lestat when claudia left and it doesn’t make it any better that they’re horrible at communicating their feelings with each other, louis doesn’t like being vulnerable and neither does lestat and they show it differently

louis will let himself get consumed by whatever is troubling him and lestat will try to do anything to ignore his problems, so basically a match made in hell cause they’re never going to learn how to love each other the right way if they don’t let themselves be vulnerable

also want to touch upon him and antoinette cause🤦🏽that mf never learns…i understand that he wanted sex or just non-sexual intimacy and he should’ve communicated that(ik his bitch ass would never) but cheating?? all of y’all that wanted to press “louis hooking up with jonah was worse cause he used to have feelings for him yadayadayada” can now pipe down and for the record it’s weird that y’all want to say what louis did was worse like lestat didn’t cheat on louis in his face in their house BEFORE proposing an open relationship🤦🏽 but whatever

and the trailer for the next ep?? they (i bet it was claudia tho) kicked lestat out😭😭 mf showing up with gifts😭bro ik that’s how you show you care but mf just COMMUNICATE AND APOLOGIZE PLEASE IM BEGGING THEM TO LEARN HOW TO FUCKING TALK TO EACH OTHER😭😭😭 *sighs* the whole ending of that ep was expected(i had got it spoiled a while ago) but at the same time it was a little more than what i was expecting but i understand the shock value part and the intention behind showing that not everything is rainbows and flowers for them(i mean it’s a vampire show where they kill people and has gore) just kinda wish that it didn’t leave me wanting someone to kill or beat the shit out of lestat😭

#interview with the vampire #amc iwtv #iwtv #amc interview with the vampire #lestat de lioncourt #louis de pointe du lac #claudia iwtv #iwtv claudia #amc iwtv spoilers #iwtv ep 5 spoilers #interview with the vampire episode 5 spoilers #interview with the vampire ep 5 spoilers #yeah how lestat’s gonna get louis to forgive him idk #maybe he’ll show off his magic mike moves or sum

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nineincht0enails · 2 months

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Finally watching the AMC IWTV

~Precursor to the text below: I can't express what I want to say properly so if you have questions, PLEASE DON'T ATTACK ME I'M TRYING. Feel free to give me some insight or explanations but no spoilers for the end, just tell me to watch the last two episodes AND I WILLLLL~

So, I gave the AMC Interview with the Vampire a watch because I was bored and wanted to be included with everything TVC. I genuinely enjoyed it. Some things I have complaints about, but I'll discuss that in a bit. I love how they portrayed Lestat; I feel they did an amazing job with that instead of making him seem equal to Louis in "vampire status" and having the same three emotions (ahem 1994 (still hold it very near and dear to my heart)). I like the way they made Louis a pimp, still holding some accuracy to the book (in the way that Louis was a slave owner, same concept OBVIOUSLY different conditions). I haven't seen the last two episodes because of my busy schedule but so far, I am not hating it. Now my complaints... very small and probably unimportant but I don't know if I love Claudia's, like, representation because to me in the book, she seems to me as a punishment for Louis because he would not kill her but didn't want Lestat to either, so in turn Lestat turns her into a vampire and forces Louis to take care of this little girl. I understand how her relationship with Louis and Lestat in the show is extremely similar to the book, with Lestat taking her hunting and showing the more elaborate side of being a vampire versus Louis showing her how he still has some mortal conflict within himself. So far, it's very similar, so no crazy complaints but I feel like they won't give her the same, like, intense frustrations like in the book or movie honestly. Claudia 1994 had such emotional intensity to her frustrations (maybe it's just Dunst being a good child actor or how it was supposed to be conveyed). I haven't watched it all the way so take everything I say like lightly :P. Another complaint I have is probably the worst one depending on if you can understand what I mean, but I don't really like how explicit Louis and Lestat's relationship is. Not in the sense of the vulgarity or content of the relationship, I know they are clearly in an intimate relationship, but I like how it was up to some kind of interpretation in the book (depending on which way you view it, maker vs creation, lovers with a distinct power imbalance), not ENTIRELY up to the reader but there are some parts you have to determine whether or not they're freaky or just being vampires. I LOVE Louis and Lestat's relationship in the show, I think it's done amazingly and not overtly JUST a relationship, rather a relationship being between a "fledgling" and a "maker", even with Lestat calling Louis "fledgling" a couple times. But (I can't really explain it cause I'm not really good at expressing what I mean, so beware), there's just something...missing? I would say the things the show does better than the movie adaptation, the show does it like 100x better. Louis and Lestat's relationship and their DYNAMICS? The show. Louis's family life? The show. Not having two horrible people be cast in the two lead roles? The show /hj (LOL I "hate" Cruise and Pitt but they were pretty good in the movie). i can understand now why people can enjoy the show, the accuracy is huge one for me, but the adaptations of the characters are something new and interesting. I can't understand how someone could absolutely HATE the show though, mild distain or just not a fan sure I can see that, but hating the show? Just weird to me, unless you can give like a good explanation why, I just can't see it. Anyways, don't crucify me for this, I wrote this while being ten assignments behind my class and so I could get this out before I explode. Also, Se7en is an insane movie def recommend.

#iwtv #tvc #vampire chronicles #amc iwtv #review #trying to type out my words is lowkey hard #can't believe im passing my english classes #the vampire chronicles

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moviegroovies · 5 years

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okay so one of my points in the original incoherent longpost ramble i wrote while fending off the the post-lost boys haze that overtook me after watching it for, i believe, the fifth time, was that i thought the reason it was such a good movie was how quickly it checked the “oh, i like these characters and want to think about them now that the movie is over” box. in that post, i then proceeded to not talk about the thoughts i’ve actually been having about these characters at all, so let’s get down to work and try to fix that, shall we?

okay i was going to just write another impossible to read multiple paragraph long post, but y’know, how about i make things easier on all of us and do this in bullet points. so, in no particular order..... headcanons!

despite her later desire to get out of the gang, star wasn’t tricked or pressured into becoming a vampire like michael was. rather, she had been hanging around them for long enough that she pieced together what they were and asked to join, only coming to realize that it would mean killing other people for her own continued survival and wanting out later on.

in the 6-issue lost boys comic, it’s implied that star has cystic fibrosis, informing her decision to become a vampire. i’m definitely not taking all of that comic into my own personal canon, but i stand by that part--esp. bc it fits with vampirism being her decision, even if it was one she later regretted.

marko is the smallest of the lost boys, but also the most dangerous, even exceeding david. have you seen that part where he’s peeling a man’s head like a fruit? that bitch is BLOODTHIRSTY.

not that he’s exactly an upstanding citizen on his own, but a good deal of the reason that david abuses exercises his control over the other boys is that he knows that they (but marko in particular) are always just about ten minutes and one show of weakness on his end away from staging a coup, and he knows that with anyone else in charge (save maybe dwayne, but dwayne isn’t interested in the leadership role) the group would become too violent and draw too much attention, getting them all killed.

okay now i feel like i’m vilifying marko which. i definitely stand by what i’ve said, but i also don’t think he’s like, pure evil or anything by any means. i like marko!

i feel like i owe marko some nice headcanons now so like: i agree with the general consensus that marko cares for the pigeons in the vampire hotel, to the point where he feeds them and maybe talks to them. he DEFINITELY has named them all, although honestly he can’t tell them apart that well so usually when he sees one and calls it a specific name, he’s fucking with everyone else. loves to make fun of the other guys for not knowing which one is which, though.

one day he looks at a bird flying into the cave and casually announces “hey, vlad’s back,” and after hardly a glance, michael deadpans “vlad? that’s lestat.”

marko goes into existential crisis mode for a week. this is the first time he starts to respect david’s decision to make michael one of them.

he never figures out if michael was just fucking with him the way everyone else or if he could really tell the difference between the pigeons and it haunts him to this day.

ok wow that was a LOT of marko

back to star: she’s trans. you know that part on the boardwalk where she and michael are introducing themselves to one another for the first time, and michael goes “oh, your parents too, huh,” when she says her name is star? i always felt like she didn’t really get what he was saying, even after michael elaborated and told her he meant that her parents were ex-hippies. now i’m totally choosing to read that as her being like, a little offended that he thought someone would only be named star because they were burdened with it by uncool ex-hippie parents, because honestly when she picked it she thought she had the coolest name of all time.

i will not take constructive criticism on that last part because it is already perfect.

on the subject of star, the general consensus i’ve seen in fic and stuff is that she had been a vampire for a few months or maybe a year before the events of the movie, but honestly i’d disagree.

personally, i feel like she’s been there for a lot longer than that--like, have you seen how she dresses? that immediately pinged “free spirit hippie girl” to me, which was kind of out of place, especially considering that everyone else dressed so 80′s. imo, star might have been turned as early as the start of the 70′s--making her the ex-hippie, and not her parents, like michael assumed. this fic here (which is SO good, by the way) explains the way that she was able to last a year with the hunger while michael was already struggling after about a week by having star steal sips from david’s bottle to tide her hunger when she could. that’s basically the way i see it, too, tbh, except over a longer time scale--rather than one year, something around 15.

which means star is nearly as old as michael’s mother. oops.

alright, it’s weird, but i don’t actually think it’s that weird. the way i’m choosing to see vampirism in this universe is that it permanently halts the emotional maturity of the vampire at whatever age they get turned; david and the guys are nearly grown, at ages like, 18-22 or so, but not quite, and they’re never going to grow up and out of their immature mindset. the worst is for laddie, who’s permanently stunted around 8 years old. the others respond to this with a certain degree of pity, but since he doesn’t actually know what he’s missing, it mostly translates to a really rabid older brother/sister instinct. heaven help anyone who tries to pick on that kid--they’re immediately going to face 5 angry vampire dudes and one absolutely enraged vampire chick.

(not to mention that his emotional immaturity means he’s got no real self control over the hunger he feels... if he ever snaps and becomes a full vampire, he’ll be the most dangerous of the group for a plethora of reasons)

on that note, if i were to list the lost boys by most control over their urges to least (or, y’know, least to most actively bloodthirsty), i think it’d be something like this: michael -> david -> star -> dwayne -> marko -> paul -> laddie, with the caveat that while marko is technically better at controlling himself than paul, paul has more moral reservations about the actual act of violent murder, while marko is more inclined to kill for fun.

david being so high on that list may be a point of contention for some but tbh i feel pretty strongly about it

a majority of that call for me comes from the unmade screenplay for the lost boys: the beginning, a prequel to the film set in 1906. before reading that, i honestly had different headcanons entirely, and a lot less sympathy for david, but if you take the script as canon, i think a lot of things change about his characterization.

in the script, the four main lost boys are together (plus one other member named jasper, which is the only crossover name between the lost boys and twilight) as a petty gang before they became vampires. the start of the movie sees them pickpocketing to try and pay for a place to sleep that night, and david seems to luck out early, lifting a wallet with a $100 bill inside.

however, when he realizes the guy has a family, including two babies, and he just took everything the guy has, he gives the wallet back, to marko’s intense dismay.

basically, david starts out a criminal, and he definitely does care about self preservation above most other things, but he still has morals. later, when the movie’s big bad is pressuring him and the others to drink blood and live eternally, he’s the only one who refuses, spitting out the wine when he’s forced to drink it and showing the others that it’s blood. notably, even before that he’s warning his friends that they don’t have to drink it if they didn’t want to (mirroring the way that star told michael he didn’t have to drink of the bottle), protecting not just himself, but also them. he resists becoming a vampire the longest, too; david refuses to join the movie’s villain, even after the other lost boys have been turned, right up until he’s shot by some military men in a scuffle and it’s a matter of life and death. then, his self preservation wins out, but even once he’s been turned, david doesn’t lose who he used to be.

tl; dr: i feel like david is a better person than the events of the movie alone would have you think.

in my opinion, he’s been looking out for his friends from the very beginning, and he’s never stopped doing that. yeah, even before he turned, he was a crook and kind of a burnout, but he had morals. i’m not going to deny that david enjoys being a vampire--enjoys drinking blood, the physical rush, the power over people who pushed him around--not by any means. i just think that comes from an understandable place, given that he was a streetrat who got pushed around a lot in the events of that script; he likes that he’ll never be a victim to assholes with knives who are bigger than he is again.

plus, if you look at the people the lost boys kill over the course of the movie, they’re not exactly innocent victims. there’s the asshole cop who restrained david with a baton to his throat for pretty much just the act of putting his hand on a dude’s face, a jerkass who starts fights on boardwalks, steals comic books, and ignores his girlfriend’s protestations in the car when he’s trying to make out with her, the girlfriend, who stuck by him while all that shit was going down (and was reading one of the stolen comics, if i interpreted that scene correctly--not that this means she necessarily deserved to die, but she wasn’t innocent), and a bunch of assholes calling themselves surf nazis. david and his gang only go after people who have started the fight themselves in some way or another, and i think that david is a big part in keeping it that way--he’s the one who deescalates the tension on the carousel to keep things from an all out bloodbath, after all, and was the one keeping the gang in check since the turn of the century from doing anything too unforgivable for their own gain. that to me says he’s got a pretty good grasp of self control, and he keeps the gang to a level of violence that sustains their bloodlust without being totally gratuitous as much as possible.

re: his placement on the sliding scale of vampiric self control, you might be wondering why i put michael at the absolute top. honestly, it’s not that i think he’s a saint or anything. i just think he was the one member of the gang (jury’s out on laddie, but he’s automatically at the bottom because of his age and inability to control himself) who didn’t make a conscious choice, one way or another, to become a vampire. marko, dwayne, and paul gave into the temptation of the prequel’s big bad. david and star were given the choice between vampirism and death, and chose to live. michael, though--michael gave into peer pressure, but the worst crime he committed was drinking some wine. watching the others kill absolutely fucked him up, but he was able to resist any kind of bloodlust that might have had him joining in the slaughter on the beach that night. when pushed to the absolute wall by david in the ending of the movie (an ending you might have noticed i’m completely ignoring in favor of a full gang inc. laddie, star, and michael for my headcanons lol), his strength was tested against david’s and he won. michael isn’t perfect or superhuman, but he’s making the choices an essentially good, normal human being would make, and when everyone around him for one reason or another chose what they have, he’s got that tiny bit of a head’s up on them that makes all the difference.

tbh tho, i think david was right when he said there was something of a killer in michael. i think on some gruesome level he’s kind of fascinated with the vampirism he’s fallen in with, which makes him more susceptible than, say, sam, or really any of the other emersons, who would rank above him on that scale, were they vampires too.

paul to me is just a fun happy dude. i was endeared to him when he clapped michael on the back after he drank and announced, totally earnestly, “you’re one of us!” i just, you know, liked his eagerness to welcome in a new friend. tbh i think he’s a bit of a ditzy airhead (or, dare i say it, a himbo), but he’s ultimately got his heart in the right place.

i really like dwayne. i like that he’s the quietest of the group (i saw a headcanon that said he didn’t speak that much because he’s got a stutter he’s embarrassed of, which i have absorbed into my canon), but i especially like that he does speak--to laddie, telling him what’s going on when he’s riding on the back of his bike. other than star, i think dwayne’s the most protective of him, and probably the most “maternal” of the guys. he’s under star in the sliding scale thing because to me he doesn’t really have qualms with killing assholes to survive, but at the same time, he’s never really tempted to take more than he needs, like marko is.

i like the idea that dwayne’s really into music, like, ‘can name the artist, album, and song title of any song made since 1890 from the first line’ into music. immortality is a hell of a thing for music buffery.

ok i have sooooooooo much more i want to say, i didn’t even realize i’d put together this many thoughts about this movie but Apparently I Have, holy god, but i need to cut off this post at some point sgfdshgh

one more fun marko one: totally love the hc that he paints, especially that he paints murals on the cave wall. artist boy.....

#the lost boys #text post #david #star #marko #michael emerson #paul #dwayne #this post got the FUCK away from me can you tell sgfdhgfnh #it was just going to be fun little headcanons that i'd thought of and then it turned into a david character study halfway through #no ragrets #peace OUT!!!!

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i-want-my-iwtv · 6 years

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Speaking to the connotations of race, it's interesting that people in the fandom want to make Daniel the black character when for so many years, a goodly bulk of this fandom has only attributive Daniel as having any value to the story when he's attached to Armand, or made him the butt of crazy jokes. It seems awfully suspicious to me that the "best' character" to be cast as a POC is the one so many have considered the throw-away one. If that doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what does.

Race. *sigh* I keep revisiting this ask, and each time I do I feel more and more like I don’t want to engage as there are so many landmines.

I didn’t get into fandom for landmines, and so I maneuver around them, and the reason I’m answering this at all is for those who are thinking about topics like these but are too afraid to respond for fear of the landmines.

I’m responding bc I feel like if sharing my perspective could make just one person feel better about this, then it’s worth the risk and worth my time and effort.

THAT SAID, I’m not sure which post you’re referring to, Anon, but there was one a few weeks ago in which another Anon asked/said:

I’m up for Daniel being Black in the adaptation. His race isn’t mentioned specifically in the books, and we need diversity in an ocean of white Eurotrash fops! I don’t see any reason why not and Bryan cast the lead in American Gods as black so I’m hopeful to see some good changes in Anne’s work. What do you think?

^Here’s one person who wants to cast Daniel as POC/Black, and they seemed to be accentuating the positive. They want diversity. They compared him to the lead from American Gods being cast as black. I don’t watch that show so I don’t know if that character is the “butt of crazy jokes” or only has value being attached to another character, but it seems to me, at face value, that this Anon thinks that Daniel being cast as POC/Black is parallel with the lead of another series being cast as POC/Black, this Anon states that as being a good change.

I answered that Anon more in depth with some historical context, so you can look at that response, but basically, Anne is open to casting POC for VC characters. I’m open to it! I trust in whoever is running the adaptation to produce it in a tasteful and respectful way, and updating it to be inspiring and satisfying to a wider audience would be great, however that happens.

TL:DR; I think people do care about Daniel, and would love to see a character that they care about, like Daniel, be cast as a POC as a good thing. Daniel is not perfect (none of them are! Except Mojo) but he has many positive traits: he’s clever, resourceful, sassy, charismatic, capable of loving and being loved in return. I think people would love for the adaptation to show that those traits can absolutely be found in POC, too. We do need more positive representation like that.

Reminder that this is a fandom blog for entertainment and I am not here to make/agree/disagree with political statements that are potentially inflammatory. Not my focus. But I will address your points to some extent.

Speaking to the connotations of race, it’s interesting that people in the fandom want to make Daniel the black character

I haven’t seen an enormous amount of people in the fandom wanting this change, I think one blog is dedicated to it? I’ve mostly seen interest and support for casting a POC as Akasha, since that casting in movie!QOTD was pretty widely praised. I see people talking about considering casting other characters as POC, but I don’t see anyone other than Akasha as being the main character of interest for that.

One could criticize that choice as being bad, as it could imply that POC/Black women are villains, bc she was a villain in that movie. That’s not the message I took from that casting choice, but one could easily argue that that was a message being sent (and therefore, Bad representation, even though she was cast as a character in a position of power).

when for so many years, a goodly bulk of this fandom has only attributive Daniel as having any value to the story when he’s attached to Armand, or made him the butt of crazy jokes.

“for so many years” covers decades of time, these books have been around since 1976. Reflecting back to when I started in this in 1993 (which was already almost 20 yrs late), I can’t say that any character has escaped being the butt of crazy jokes in all this time, and with the nature of shipping, many of the characters seem to only have value when attached to other characters.

Re: shipping: it seems like ships are more prevalent in fanworks than fanworks portraying the characters on their own, and so it may give the impression that fandom “prefers the characters as part of a ship,” but personally, I think of shipping as the collision of 2 (or more) characters, to see how they’ll interact: in happiness, sadness, anger, all the different ways! Writing about a ship can allow a fanartist/writer/etc. to explore how each member of the ship will react in actions/words/etc.to the other’s actions/words/etc. So I can see how you might get the impression that “Daniel only has value as being attached to Armand,” but I think it’s more about how Daniel presents himself when he is with Armand, that’s what the fanworks are exploring.

Along those lines, however you interpret that ship, the bulk of Daniel’s post-IWTV “screentime” was in QOTD, with Armand, and after that, Daniel doesn’t get much action in canon until the more recent books (but even then, not as much as in QOTD). As the fandom does tend to ship Daniel with Armand, and plenty of it that I’ve seen (especially in fanart) is somewhat fluffy, again, I can see why you might get the impression that “he’s only valued when attached to Armand,” but really, I think Daniel/Armand shippers are fascinated with the dynamic of that ship. It’s rarely fluffy in canon. So some of them make fanworks for wish fulfillment, and that’s valid.

Personally, I don’t think Daniel’s only value to the story is when he’s attached to Armand, but again, he spends most of his time in canon with Armand, maybe that’s why the fandom doesn’t tend to write him on his own time separately.

Re: being the “butt of crazy jokes”: As a side note, when we joke about characters, that’s not to say that that’s always a negative act. Look, we’re currently dragging Lestat bc he said IN CANON that he loved being called a “slut,” which is really more of a layered commentary on shaming people for enjoying sex/intimacy, and he refuses to be shamed for it, he’ll turn around and take it as a compliment instead ;)

I’ve been in this fandom for over 20 years and I don’t think Daniel has gotten the worst treatment in those terms, it seems to me that there have been waves of love/interest/disdain/mockery of most of the main (and side) characters at different points in time, and from different groups of fans. So that may be your experience, and that’s absolutely valid, but I haven’t seen it that way. Of all the characters, I think Lestat probably gets the worst of being the butt of crazy jokes and he likes it bc bad attention is better than no attention.

It seems awfully suspicious to me that the “best’ character” to be cast as a POC is the one so many have considered the throw-away one. If that doesn’t speak volumes, I don’t know what does.

I’m sorry, but I have to disagree here, too. I wouldn’t say he’s a throw-away character for the whole fandom. There are Daniel RPers. As I’ve mentioned, it happens that he doesn’t have a lot of action in canon other than in books 1 (as just the interviewer, but it counts!) and 3, so the fandom does not have as much canon to work with as they do for other characters.

And again, re: the fandom choosing him as “the best character” to be cast as a POC, that seems to be Akasha, from what I’ve seen.

Relevant to this discussion: there was a wave of love for Nicolas a few years back, for the same reasons, I think, that @mendedpixie7 felt about Adam in Only Lovers Left Alive:

The reason I love Only Lovers Left Alive is it shows that a character (Adam) can be severely mentally ill, in this case depressed and suicidal, and still be seen as lovable and capable of being loved and loving in return without being “cured” of their mental illness, and that a mentally ill character can have other attributes aside from being mentally ill while still showing the impact being mentally ill has on his personality.

Adam from OLLA is an extremely important character to me you guys.

Similarly, I think people would love to see a character that they care about, like Daniel, be cast as a POC as being POC is often portrayed negatively in media. Fans of a POC being cast as Daniel would want (I’m paraphrasing from above):

to see Danielshowing that a character can be POC, in this case black, and still be seen as lovable and capable of being loved and loving in return, and that a POC character can have other attributes aside from being POC while still showing the impact being POC has on his personality.

Daniel Molloy from VC is an extremely important character to me you guys.

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5thinvictus · 7 years

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The Strain 4x05: A Write Up

Disclaimer: The point of this is not to belittle or undermine anyone else’s interpretation or headcanon of the episode. The point of this is simply to get it off my chest. This is in no way an attack or a troll. It’s simply what I do after episodes, I just normally attach it with GIFs.

As MANY people in this fandom already know ... I’ve never been a Tasa shipper, but I accepted the relationship as a part of Quinlan’s life which allowed him to grow and feel.

I admit, full-heartedly, that The Strain is no longer a good TV show, but until now it was a HELL of a guilty pleasure. I watched it despite some part of myself understanding that it was bad, because I dug some of the characters and actors. I spent a LOT OF TIME pushing the show and creating content for it. I even spent nearly all of my time at SDCC doing so, knowing it wasn’t critically acclaimed or anything. However, this past episode wasn’t a guilty pleasure. This past episode, the creators actually insulted my intelligence a bit.

From the truck action (there were a few cool bits, but i.e. Quinlan falling to the truck for SEVERAL seconds, as the strigoi looks CONFUSED at him before getting cut in half. The wire was REALLY high up. It would have been so much cooler if Q had ducked under it at the perfect time) to the flashbacks to the unnecessary meandering dialogue/romance with Eph and his new lady friend (did we need that scene at all? There are only 5 episodes left and … what was the point of it all?), to Eph just letting that woman go to become the Master and know his location ... the writing and direction in this episode was scattered all over the place. ಠ_ಠ

I could likely go on for pages about the rest of the episode, but I’m not going to rant about anything in this post except the flashbacks and their personal impact on me.

Quinlan: out of Character? Perhaps ... Perhaps not.

The Strain is a bit notorious for not being able to keep any of their own characters straight. I think this might be because of the wide range of writers and I know this happens on TV shows because of that fact, but they flip-flop back in forth for everyone, with the only exceptions being Abraham and possibly Mr. Quinlan. Until now.

The flashbacks.

Very simply put, I would have accepted this all better if he was younger. That’s the crux of my problem with it. Not Louisa. Not that Louisa isn’t Tasa. Not that they’ve, once again, changed canon. I’ve read some arguments for this behavior that conjecture he was just "curious" and he had talked about being “curious” in Rome two thousand years prior. But that was when he was very young. If you follow the canon timeline, he was in his late teens or early 20s in that scene.

That was when he was STILL trying to figure out humans. In this scene, he is 1848 years old (1888 A.D. - 40 A.D.). Take a moment to fathom that number. 1848 years old. If human’s average lifespan is around 70 … that is a little more than 26 lifetimes. At this point in the story, he has lived 26 lifetimes. He has traveled the world, leading the life of a demigod undead hunter, integrating with societies all over. He was a gladiator, which meant he was likely used for sexual purposes. He would not be as curious as a schoolboy, or confused by a woman painting his face. Makeup is not a new invention. Over 1848 years, it’s ludicrous to think that he hasn’t TRIED to paint the strigoi out of himself before.

What I find the most hard to swallow about this scene is not that they replaced Tasa with Louisa or that they gave him a woman at all. I don’t care either way. It is that he acted like a child for most of the flashback. When the little girl ran in and met him, he acted like he’d never met a child before … Wait what?

So, if they had done this "love story" in Rome or sometime around that part of his past, I would have actually bought into it, because he was still on his first lifetime and he was still trusting, and curious, and childish, and … naive.

This leads me back to my headcanon about it. Louisa and her daughter remind him of Tasa and Sura, so he bought into the "romance," or the “idea” of it. He’s been alone for a long time and he’s grown tired and this woman pops out of nowhere and offers him a chance to revisit what he had lost so long ago, then maybe he would be more open to … moving in with her after a couple of days / weeks? (I agree with @theforgottensheikah on this. I fully understand they are rushed, but some kind of montage would have made it seem like more time had passed? The quickness was terribly OoC).

Expectation vs. Execution: The scene itself

Intimacy + Bonding vs. Strange Stinger Kink + Porno Moans

IMHO, this was weird. He’s feeding on her. There’s no kiss, there’s no intimacy, there’s no bonding.

They could have made that scene very sexy and made the audience feel the emotion that was supposedly there (even with the unbelievable Quinlan makeup) by having something like:

Forehead or nose touches (I fucking love these, sorry).

Quinlan refusing at first, telling her he didn’t want to hurt her, expressing concern for her.

Kissing … good lord, some kind of kissing.

Twitching and rattling with excitement over just the possibility of touching her.

I’m not daft or a fool. I get what they were trying to convey, but it fell flat. I’m not a crazy fangirl because I was more than open to see this. I DIDN’T MISS THE POINT AT ALL. But I wanted to see some intimacy. I wanted to see how Rupert would convey that intimacy. I was excited to possibly see Quinlan kissing someone.

IT … FELL … FLAT and then they made it weird.

He drinks her. Hmmm. To him, humans are food. To him, humans have always been food. 1848 years of food food food. I get that she’s got the kink and he conforms to it, but that’s not his kink He does what she asks but I’ve never been a huge vampire/blood play fan because … You like a good steak, but that doesn’t mean you want to fuck the cow, and if you are fucking the cow, doesn’t mean you are eating them at the same time. This disappointed me because it’s an incredibly clichéd vampire trope and I would hope that someone like Quinlan would be beyond it, especially at his age.

Also, I want to point out something particularly poignant here. Given how he reacted to the Master reminding him of Ancharia in 2x07, her death is still very much an open wound. So, I would think that being encouraged to drink from Louisa would be uncomfortable for him, to say the least. Since the Master forced him to drink the last known human that he cared for to survive, this scenario should actually be quite traumatic to him.

And, why would he want to drink someone he loves, especially after she just told him he was more beautiful as a human than a strigoi? Isn’t that confusing? She just painted him up like a human and then told him to drink her like a strigoi. I digress ...

When I watched this part of the episode, I wasn’t crying, I wasn’t angry, I wasn’t even cringing. When I watched this part of the episode, I started laughing. This is no exaggeration. Even my husband asked me what I was ‘cackling’ about because these flashbacks played as if I was watching them re-enact a bad fanfiction. After it was over, I was more embarrassed and a bit creeped out about being a fan than angry or even disappointed.

What ran through my head was:

Oh good god. Is this what the show runners think of us?

Someone who accepts him in all of his unique beauty vs. Someone who tells him he needs to be human to be beautiful

I don’t need to touch on this subject as many already have. Instead, I’ll let Guillermo del Toro speak for all of us:

Well, I have said this in the past, so I hope i don’t bore you by repeating it, but I think that we live or die under the tyranny of perfection. Socially, we are pushed towards being perfect. Physically, beautiful to conform to standards that are cruel and uncommon, to behave and lead our lives in a certain way, to demonstrate to the world that we are happy and healthy and all full of sunshine. We are told to always smile and never sweat, by multiple commercials of shampoo or beer.

And I feel that the most achievable goal of our lives is to have the freedom that imperfection gives us.

And there is no better patron saint of imperfection than a monster.

We will try really hard to be angels, but I think that a balanced, sane life is to accept the monstrosity in ourselves and others as part of what being human is. Imperfection, the acceptance of imperfection, leads to tolerance and liberates us from social models that I find horrible and oppressive.

— Guillermo del Toro, on why he has always been intrigued by monsters

Passive vs. Submissive vs. Dominant

Quinlan was uncharacteristically passive in this episode. HE WAS THE SEXY LAMP THIS TIME. From Ancharia to Rome to modern day, he’s never been this passive. Even when he was working with Abe, he was still contributing and arguing.

This breaks the continuity of his characterization.

Aside

For those comparing him to Dracula AND/OR Lestat and using that as a basis for belittling others into loving what they saw: I didn’t pick Mr. Quinlan because he reminded me of other critically acclaimed vampires. I picked Mr. Quinlan as my favorite fictional character because he was uniquely interesting and beautiful.

I chose him because of how intriguing and new he looked, how he acted and how Mr. Penry-Jones portrayed him. I picked him because he was different than any other vampire/dhampir/nephilim I had ever seen. Comparing what they did to him with other vampires, regardless of how I feel about those other character, actually cheapens his uniqueness for me.

Also, Gary Oldman was a shapeshifter in that movie and thus, it was well within my suspension of disbelief that he could change the contours of his face to look entirely human.

Now ... Understanding Your Fanbase

Part of the reason I, and many more fans, like the character of Quinlan is because he doesn’t conform to modern beauty standards. I loved that he wasn’t your average handsome, makeup-laden (cough - Twilight) vampire hunk. I loved that he was unique and complex. They took one of the most important aspects of his character and they wanted us to buy into a rushed and botched romance with a woman who wanted to fundamentally change him. Tasa fan or not, it’s very clear why this bothered people.

Would you and SHOULD YOU be with someone who convinced you that you needed to get plastic surgery? I guess, since this is made by ‘Hollywood’, then this is an acceptable thing in that space?

In Conclusion: 4x05

No, we did not miss the point. No, we aren’t being stupid fangirls who don’t want to share Quinlan. The fact is, we just aren’t that gullible. Many of the people in this fandom have written their own fics, whether it be explicit or not, whether it be with an original character or Tasa or another canon character.

An impressive amount of us have actually sat down and put pen to paper in an attempt to characterize Quinlan. This is a difficult thing to do, because we like to think that he’s incredibly complex and mysterious. But, everyone is free to have their own interpretation of him.

Mini rant: Why does The Strain always make their female characters so sexually aggressive? From Nora ripping Eph’s clothes off in the middle of an episode, to Anya being the one to invite Gus into her warm bosom, to Dutch VERY AGGRESSIVELY seducing both Fet and Eph, to Louisa begging for it? Is this really the only type of woman that exist in this world?

In Further Conclusion: Quinlan and The Strain Fandom

I’ve never been a superfan of anything in my life and, while it has been a phenomenally creative outlet, the toxicity and ugliness of the current fandom makes me realize that I’ve got to get back to being an adult now. At the end of the day, it’s just any old terrible TV show and they’ve decided to remove the one thing that was inspiring me to continue watching and the bragging that it’s only going to get worse only tires me more.

It’s absolutely no secret that if the Strain didn’t have Quinlan in it, I would have stopped watching it halfway through season 3. It was all over the place, from the plot holes, strange character direction, and … of course … the treatment of women.

On that note, allow me a tiny tangent. Something has seemed significantly off about the Strain since it came back together to film Season 4. Speculation on the cause of this tepidness shown from the creators, crew, and actors has driven mad speculation throughout the remaining members of the dwindling fandom.

What was going on that no one wanted to say anything? Was it that good that they didn’t want to spoil anything or … was it that bad that people are actually embarrassed about their contractual involvement? Why wasn’t the cast promoting it very much anymore? Why wasn’t the social media team themselves promoting it very much? Why weren’t there any teasers or anything to drive anticipation. And … most importantly … where the fuck did Guillermo del Toro go?!?

While we’re desperate to know why everything seemingly fizzled out, as just ‘simple fans’ who’s opinions don’t matter, we will never be privy to such information. If anyone has any insight into this and they’d like to share with me as a parting gift, please do so. It would be a private conversation.

I’ve been putting far too much passion into promoting and generating content for this show and after the atrocity that was the last episode (and the manner in which people reacted to criticism of the episode), I’ll be taking an indefinite hiatus from further involvement in this fandom. (Indefinite: lasting for an unknown or unstated length of time.) After all, I’m just a ‘simple fan’, and the only way that I can really show my disdain for the misdirection is by boycotting further direct involvement in the fandom.

WAIT! WAIT! WHAT ABOUT THE GODDAMN FIC!?!

。゜゜(´Ｏ｀)°゜。

I do not regret the time I’ve put into this as it gave me the confidence to reach beyond what I thought I was capable of and it drove me to start writing finally. I don’t even regret that the Strain was terrible in Season 3, because the best fanfic actually comes out of terrible shows (for obvious reasons). And regardless of what happens next in the show (which I am politely declining to watch further), no one can EVER take away the headcanon that I’ve created for myself and my version of Quinlan. Overall, I am incredibly proud of the characters that I built and the fandom that I have for my own interpretation.

With that being said, the latest episode was amazingly uninspiring and it kinda murdered my muse a bit. I will see what I can do about that. I promise. And if there is enough interest in me continuing it, I will.

Now, my fierce and lovely fandom … prepare yourselves for one final and epic commission for Straining for Originality. I’d wanted to wait until the chapter, but fuck it all …

Gif by @quintustheinvictus

#the strain #quinlan #Mr. Quinlan #quintus sertorius #the born #rant #the strain rant #the strain review #review

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