#making it so it doesnt really exist in a vacuum and can feed into a possible future longer au fic idea | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

qqueenofhades · 3 years

Note

Hi. You made a post a couple of days ago about how queer historical fiction doesnt need to be defined only by homophobia. Can you expand on that a bit maybe? Because it seems interesting and important, but I'm a little confused as to whether that is responsible to the past and showing how things have changed over time. Anyway this probably isn't very clear, but I hope its not insulting. Have a good day :)

Hiya. I assume you're referring to this post, yes? I think the main parameters of my argument were set out pretty clearly there, but sure, I'm happy to expand on it. Because I'm a little curious as to why you think that writing a queer narrative (especially a queer fictional narrative) that doesn't make much reference to or even incorporate explicit homophobia is (implicitly) not being "responsible to the past." I've certainly made several posts on this topic before, but as ever, my thoughts and research materials change over time. So, okay.

(Note: I am a professional historian with a PhD, a book contract for an academic monograph on medieval/early modern queer history, and soon-to-be-several peer-reviewed publications on medieval queer history. In other words, I'm not just talking out of my ass here.)

As I noted in that post, first of all, the growing emphasis on "accuracy" in historical fiction and historically based media is... a mixed bag. Not least because it only seems to be applied in the Game of Thrones fashion, where the only "accurate" history is that which is misogynistic, bloody, filthy, rampantly intolerant of competing beliefs, and has no room for women, people of color, sexual minorities, or anyone else who has become subject to hot-button social discourse today. (I wrote a critical post awhile ago about the Netflix show Cursed, ripping into it for even trying to pretend that a show based on the Arthurian legends was "historically accurate" and for doing so in the most simplistic and reductive way possible.) This says far more about our own ideas of the past, rather than what it was actually like, but oh boy will you get pushback if you try to question that basic premise. As other people have noted, you can mix up the archaeological/social/linguistic/cultural/material stuff all you like, but the instant you challenge the ingrained social ideas about The Bad Medieval Era, cue the screaming.

I've been a longtime ASOIAF fan, but I do genuinely deplore the effect that it (and the show, which was by far the worst offender) has had on popular culture and widespread perceptions of medieval history. When it comes to queer history specifically, we actually do not know that much, either positive or negative, about how ordinary medieval people regarded these individuals, proto-communities, and practices. Where we do have evidence that isn't just clerical moralists fulminating against sodomy (and trying to extrapolate a society-wide attitude toward homosexuality from those sources is exactly like reading extreme right-wing anti-gay preachers today and basing your conclusions about queer life in 2021 only on those), it is genuinely mixed and contradictory. See this discussion post I likewise wrote a while ago. Queerness, queer behavior, queer-behaving individuals have always existed in history, and labeling them "queer" is only an analytical conceit that represents their strangeness to us here in the 21st century, when these categories of exclusion and difference have been stringently constructed and applied, in a way that is very far from what supposedly "always" existed in the past.

Basically, we need to get rid of the idea that there was only one empirical and factual past, and that historians are "rewriting" or "changing" or "misrepresenting" it when they produce narratives that challenge hegemonic perspectives. This is why producing good historical analysis is a skill that takes genuine training (and why it's so undervalued in a late-capitalist society that would prefer you did anything but reflect on the past). As I also said in the post to which you refer, "homophobia" as a structural conceit can't exist prior to its invention as an analytical term, if we're treating queerness as some kind of modern aberration that can't be reliably talked about until "homosexual" gained currency in the late 19th century. If there's no pre-19th century "homosexuality," then ipso facto, there can be no pre-19th-century "homophobia" either. Which one is it? Spoiler alert: there are still both things, because people are people, but just as the behavior itself is complicated in the premodern past, so too is the reaction to it, and it is certainly not automatic rejection at all times.

Hence when it comes to fiction, queer authors have no responsibility (and in my case, certainly no desire) to uncritically replicate (demonstrably false!) narratives insisting that we were always miserable, oppressed, ostracised, murdered, or simply forgotten about in the premodern world. Queer characters, especially historical queer characters, do not have to constantly function as a political mouthpiece for us to claim that things are so much better today (true in some cases, not at all in the others) and that modernity "automatically" evolved to a more "enlightened" stance (definitely not true). As we have seen with the recent resurgence of fascism, authoritarianism, nationalism, and xenophobia around the world, along with the desperate battle by the right wing to re-litigate abortion, gay rights, etc., social attitudes do not form in a vacuum and do not just automatically become more progressive. They move backward, forward, and side to side, depending on the needs of the societies that produce them, and periods of instability, violence, sickness, and poverty lead to more regressive and hardline attitudes, as people act out of fear and insularity. It is a bad human habit that we have not been able to break over thousands of years, but "[social] things in the past were Bad but now have become Good" just... isn't true.

After all, nobody feels the need to constantly add subtextual disclaimers or "don't worry, I personally don't support this attitude/action" implied authorial notes in modern romances, despite the cornucopia of social problems we have today, and despite the complicated attitude of the modern world toward LGBTQ people. If an author's only reason for including "period typical homophobia" (and as we've discussed, there's no such thing before the 19th century) is that they think it should be there, that is an attitude that needs to be challenged and examined more closely. We are not obliged to only produce works that represent a downtrodden past, even if the end message is triumphal. It's the same way we got so tired of rape scenes being used to make a female character "stronger." Just because those things existed (and do exist!), doesn't mean you have to submit every single character to those humiliations in some twisted name of accuracy.

Yes, as I have always said, prejudices have existed throughout history, sometimes violently so. But that is not the whole story, and writing things that center only on the imagined or perceived oppression is not, at this point, accurate OR helpful. Once again, I note that this is specifically talking about fiction. If real-life queer people are writing about their own experiences, which are oftentimes complex, that's not a question of "representation," it's a question of factual memoir and personal history. You can't attack someone for being "problematic" when they are writing about their own lived experience, which is something a younger generation of queer people doesn't really seem to get. They also often don't realise how drastically things have changed even in my own lifetime, per the tags on my reblog about Brokeback Mountain, and especially in media/TV.

However, if you are writing fiction about queer people, especially pre-20th century queer people, and you feel like you have to make them miserable just to be "responsible to the past," I would kindly suggest that is not actually true at all, and feeds into a dangerous narrative that suggests everything "back then" was bad and now it's fine. There are more stories to tell than just suffering, queer characters do not have to exist solely as a corollary for (inaccurate) political/social commentary on the premodern past, and they can and should be depicted as living their lives relatively how they wanted to, despite the expected difficulties and roadblocks. That is just as accurate, if sometimes not more so, than "they suffered, the end," and it's something that we all need to be more willing to embrace.

#history #medieval history #queer history #meta #long post #anonymous #ask

125 notes · View notes

betterweathcr-blog · 7 years

Note

✩ whoever you wanna do babe

@agxinstthecxrrent

DISAGREEMENTS:

who is more likely to raise their voice? roman ugh he gets his dad’s temperwho threatens to leave but never actually does? romanwho actually keeps their word and leaves? jaswho trashes the house? romando either of them get physical? roman would but it’s if she really makes him snaphow often do they argue/disagree? rarely tbhwho is the first to apologise? roman

SEX:

who is on top? romanwho is on the bottom? jaswho has the strangest desires? mmmmmm roman?any kinks? roman is lowkey into chokingwho’s dominant in bed? roman lolis head ever in the equation? yesif so, who is better at performing it? romanever had sex in public? probably in a bathroom at some fancy ass restaurantwho moans the most? jaswho leaves the most marks? romanwho screams the loudest? jaswho is the more experienced of the two? jas ??do they ‘fuck’ or ‘make love’? they fuck like rabbitsrough or soft? LMAO ROUGHhow long do they usually last? idfkis protection used? yeah roman hates kidsdoes it ever get boring? nowhere is the strangest place they’d have sex? like i said, a fancy restaurant

FAMILY:

do your muses plan on having children/or have children? probs on accidentif so, how many children do your muses want/have? maybe 2-3who is the favorite parent? romanwho is the authoritative parent? jaswho is more likely to allow the children to have a day off school? romanwho lets the children indulge in sweets and junk food when the other isn’t around? ROMANwho turns up to extra curricular activities to support their children? roman but sometimes he’ll be stonedwho goes to parent teacher interviews? bothwho changes the diapers? jaswho gets up in the middle of the night to feed the baby? romanwho spends the most time with the children? roman surprisingly who packs their lunch boxes? jaswho gives their children ‘the talk’? LMAO ROMAN WOULD BE SO BLUNTwho cleans up after the kids? grandma mariawho worries the most? roman can worry over not being a good dadwho are the children more likely to learn their first swear word from? JAS

AFFECTION:

who likes to cuddle? neither ? idkwho is the little spoon? it would be jaswho gets naughty in the most inappropriate of places? roman does this thing where he slips his hand in between her legs and starts mmmmmmrubbinwho struggles to keep their hands to themself? romanhow long can they cuddle until one becomes uncomfortable? 10 minuteswho gives the most kisses? romanwhat is their favourite non-sexual activity? doing drugs idkwhere is their favourite place to cuddle? bedwho is more likely to playfully grope the other? romanhow often do they get time to themselves? most of the time until someone comes home because roman still lives w mommy and daddy

SLEEPING:

who snores? ROMANif both do, who snores the loudest? ^^do they share a bed or sleep separately? they shareif they sleep together, do they cozy up together or lay far apart? cozy upwho talks in their sleep? romewhat do they wear to bed? roman wears hella expensive grey sweatpants and jas just wears some shorts and a very comfy belly shirtare either of your muses insomniacs? romancan sleeping pills be found by the bedside? nahdo they wrap their limbs around each other or just lay side by side? lay side to sidewho wakes up with bed hair? jaswho wakes up first? romewho prepares breakfast in bed for the other? romewhat is their favourite sleeping position? idk jas’s leg over rome’s hipswho hogs the sheets?do they set an alarm each night? nahcan a television be found in their bedroom? yeswho has nightmares? jaswho has ridiculous dreams? romanwho sprawls out and takes up most of the bed? romanwho makes the bed? the housekeeperwhat time is bed time? the limit does not existany routines/rituals before bed? knowing roman, sexwho’s the grumpiest when they wake up? roman

WORK:

who is the busiest? jaswho rakes in the highest income? jasare any of your muses unemployed? roman is a drug dealer does that countwho takes the most sick days? roman ?who is more likely to turn up late to work? romanwho sucks up to their boss? roman so he doesnt diewhat are their jobs? music and roman deals drugs since he got into some trouble and cant get out of itwho stresses the most? jasdo your muses enjoy or despise their careers/occupations? probably enjoyare your muses financially stable? YEAH LMAO ROMANS A TRUST FUND BABY

HOME:

who does the washing? housekeeperwho takes out the trash? housekeeperwho does the ironing? housekeeperwho does the cooking? jaswho is more likely to burn the house down just trying? romanwho is messier? romanwho leaves the toilet roll empty? romanwho leaves their dirty clothes on the floor? romanwho forgets to flush the toilet? ...romanwho is the prankster around the house? romanwho loses the car keys when it comes time to go somewhere? jaswho mows the lawn? gardenerwho answers the telephone? jaswho does the vacuuming? housekeeperwho does the groceries? bothwho takes the longest to shower? jaswho spends the most time in the bathroom? jas

MISCELLANEOUS:

is money a problem? look at the home section of this and ask that again, reallyhow many cars do they own? 3do they own their home or do they rent? they dont live togetherdo they live near the coast or deep in the countryside? idk is grand rapids by a lake im such a fake michiganderdo they live in the city or in the country? by the citydo they enjoy their surroundings? yeswhat’s their song? higher by with confidencewhat do they do when they’re away from each other? textwhere did they first meet? probably at angelo’s showhow did they first meet? roman saw her and thought “bro,,, she reminds me of someone but shes hot” so he decided to flirtwho spends the most money when out shopping? roman pulls out ten different credit cards i stgwho’s more likely to flash their assets? jas idkwho finds it amusing when the other trips over? JASMINEany mental issues? eee idkwho’s terrified of bugs? neitherwho kills the spiders around the house? romantheir favourite place? a bar downtownwho pays the bills? louis marquez loldo they have any fears for their future? roman just doesnt wanna hurt jas or have kidswho’s more likely to surprise the other with a fancy dinner? R O M A Nwho uses up all of the hot water? jaswho’s the tallest? romanwho’s more likely to just randomly hop into the shower with the other? romanwho wanders around in their underwear? jaswho sings the loudest when singing along to the radio? jaswhat do they tease each other about? romans stupiditywho is more likely to cringe at the other’s fashion sense at times? jas looks at roman’s rich people clothes and cringe but he barely wears themdo they have mutual friends? probs angelowho crushed first? romanany alcohol or substance related problems? roman is way too into coke sometimeswho is more likely to stumble home, drunk, at 3am? romanwho swears the most? they both swear a lot

#roman;jasmine | otp: baby let me take you higher #( why is this 99% roman )#agxinstthecxrrent

1 note · View note