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#jon’s resurrection

nightswatchdisbandmentera · 1 year

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I’ve been think about how Jon’s resurrection might be one of the most magically charged moments in the entire series. GRRM has taken some time to gather some powerful magical agents near or around Jon. Not to mention that Jon himself is an inherently magical being. Lady Stoneheart and Beric coming back to life are always used as reference points, but honestly I think Jon will be something unlike anything we’ve seen before.

Like the wall is this giant ice structure that supposedly has magic coursing through it. Per legends, this magic supposedly from the Children of the Forest who helped Bran the Builder build the Wall. It’s an ice structure so I’m not sure if it’s ice magic within the Wall or the more earthy magic of the Children. And it looks like the Wall’s magic pours outward. Melisandre says that her own magic is growing due to the Wall’s influence and this on turn makes her more powerful. So powerful that any spells she casts can do some real damage. Maester Aemon also seems to think that the Wall prolonged his life; the whole cold preserves thing. Aemon is a Targaryen, who are a magical family. I wonder if the magic laying dormant in his blood mixing with the Wall’s? I don’t think we have any other examples of NW brothers whose lives are strangely prolonged. It’s super crackpot-y but fun to think about. There are also theories that Jon’s body may be kept in an ice cell before he’s resurrected. So if we go by Aemon, is it possible that the magic inside Jon and the magic within the Wall mix? Then he won’t be as badly damaged as some people think he will be. I remember Mel saying something like Jon’s shadow has been etched across the Wall so I wonder if this will come up later on. Might be a silly little line or might have some greater magical implications…

Then I’m thinking of the magic within Jon himself. Jon is such a magical being but he (and the fandom) downplays it a lot. For starters, he’s the only person in Westeros history (as far as we know) who has Stark and Targaryen blood. These are two of the most magical houses in the series. So he has the ability to harness a bunch of different powers: warging/skinchanging, dragon riding, prophetic dreams. And he’s already showed affinity to some of these in the text. He one of the more powerful Stark wargs, he gets prophetic dreams, and he has that weird, inexplicable superhuman strength going on. By ADWD, his warging powers are getting so strong that he can now (unwillingly) warg into Ghost without sleeping or falling into a trance. I think it’s safe to assume that resurrection will make him more powerful. Bran unlocks his greenseer powers after his fall and Jojen awakens green dreams after a deadly illness. Arya unlocks skinchanging powers after going blind too. Jon not only has First Men magic but Valyrian magic as well so I think the change in him will be even greater. And I think that actually dying makes a much bigger difference than nearly dying.

I wonder what sort of magical changes we’ll see in him. For sure heightened warging powers and he’ll definitely become a fully fledged skinchanger. I wonder if he’ll be getting more prophetic dreams? So far he’s only had the Winterfell Crypt dreams and the Azor Ahai one but maybe it’s possible he gets more. I’m veering into the crackpot again but I’m remembering his Winterfell crypt dreams and how the Kings of Winter react to him. Ned and Theon have similar dreams (at different places and times) but the Kings of Winter don’t behave as they do with Jon. Ned only says that they look at him judgingly (iirc) and Theon only says they’re angry (not entirely sure about the wording). But with Jon, they actually rise from the dead to confront him! It’s quite scary but it brings to mind Aragorn vs the ghosts in LoTR. And also brings to mind that weird thing Benerro (?) says about people drying in service of Azor Ahai who are reborn again….It might just be GRRM upping the horror aspect of Jon’s dreams but I prefer the crackpot explanation of Jon raising people from the dead. And it’s not super out of left field either! Beric is able to raise Stoneheart; Thoros raises Beric though he’s not a devout follower. If Jon gets some of that R’hllor heat in him then…

Speaking of Beric and Thoros, there’s the whole Lightbringer thing. Thoros does some tricks (I think he uses wildfire?) to set his sword aflame but Beric uses his own blood. If the Red God has a hand in Jon’s resurrection, I wonder if Jon is able to replicate Beric’s actions. But unlike Beric, Jon’s sword will never go out because his sword is Valyrian Steel and his blood is magic. And it will be different from Stannis’ too because his will actually give off heat and will thus be the real deal (sorry Stannis). Maybe this will be the Targ magic in him acting up? Or might we expect other things? But what? There’s also his berserker mode. I’ve been wondering if this is due to his magical nature based on the frequency and the strength. Might be his warging powers manifesting physically or might be because of his Stark and Targaryen heritage. And if we veer into more crackpot, there’s a number of theories about how the Targs are part dragon because of the blood magic Valyria’s practiced or how the Starks may share some genetic markup with the CoTF/the Others. They’re kind of insane but that would make Jon part ice and part fire. I have no idea what impact that would have though but it will probably be huge (if these theories are even true). Idk. The fandom has agreed that R+L=J is less to do with Jon ruling Westeros and more to do with him the magical war against the Others. So I hope his parentage plays a big role in the magical realm.

We can’t also forget all the prophets surrounding Jon. Prophets from different magic bases: R’hllor, the Drowned God, the Old Gods. All of these have seen Jon’s death and resurrection at various points in the story. First is Bran who seems to get a vision of Jon’s death in AGoT (Jon laying in a cold bed with all memory of warmth fleeing from him). Then we have Patchface, a prophet of the drowned god if theories are correct, who seems to have foreseen Jon’s death and resurrection (crows being white as snow, snow falling up). And then Melisandre who is constantly being bombarded with visions surrounding Jon’s death and reurrection. Almost like R’hllor is warning her about something major that’s about to go down. It seems like Jon dying and resurrecting is causing some cosmic shifts in the metaphysical world that it doesn’t matter what god you worship or what type of magic you’re using, you’ll be affected anyway.

All things considered, I think Jon’s resurrection will be a clash of different magic systems; all of them converging into the magical Jon. I remember someone once speculating that Jon will be “post-human” and I kind like that theory. Not really a god, but not an ordinary human either. Maybe he’ll be something in-between. I think the manner of resurrection might help as well. Ghost is there to preserve his soul. And Ghost seems like a weird firewood (quite different from the other Stark direworlves beyond just his coloring). There’s the ice cells which might preserve his body and maybe cause some other changes. Some people speculate that Mel might give him the kiss of life but it kinda seems lame imo. Mel is a shadowbinder from Asshai, who has practiced blood magic like Mirri. I’d like to imagine that we might see a combination of different things from her. Perhaps a funeral pyre, perhaps a blood ritual, or maybe a little bit of everything. But I do believe the circumstances surrounding Jon’s resurrection will also affect things. This is yet another dose of crack but his birth feels like a floppy Azor Ahai thing. It’s all very metaphorical but we have a couple of things that could meet the requirements but don’t really. But the main point is that his birth is surrounded by thousands of people dying all over Westeros, and more dying at the tower where he was born. I like to think that there was some magical effect there with the waking of a (metaphorical) dragon…

So his rebirth will be another waking of the dragon moment. It will still probably be metaphorical but it will be more complete the second time around. Bonus points if we get a funeral pyre made of stone (smoke) and some tears or something idk (salt); he could even be a ham like Stannis! That way we have two Azor Ahai figures complimenting each other. Dany fulfills the prophecy requirements literally but gets a metaphorical Lightbringer (her dragons), and Jon fulfilling the prophecy metaphorically but then wielding a literal Lightbringer (an actual flaming sword). It all sounds super crazy but anyway. Can’t wait to see what Monsieur Martin has in store for the bastard boi

#jon snow #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #warging #ghost #r plus l equals j #azor ahai #lightbringer #beric #thoros #stoneheart #melisandre #bran stark #patchface #grrm #jon’s resurrection #my ramblings #crackpot theories #my stuff

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meteorologia · 6 months

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wtf is that emo teen doing at the wall. he should be smoking shitty weed in his toyota corolla...

#resurrecting this dead art blog with. a sketch drawn on my class notebook.... classic i must say #jon snow #asoiaf #my art #asoiaf fanart #asoiaf art #jon snow fanart

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mummer · 1 year

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you know how resurrected people in asoiaf get singularly obsessed with like one thing they were doing before they died so beric is obsessed with defending smallfolk from invaders and stoneheart is obsessed with revenge against the freys. i think it would be funny if jon came back and he was just tirelessly devoted to the same bland nights watch management as before. just murdering anyone who tries to tear him away from drafting architectural plans for a greenhouse or writing pointless letters. can i dwell on what i scarce remember? sometimes i think i was born on the floor of that stock room, counting barrels of turnips

#i do think it would be kinda boring if he became obsessed with taking winterfell/killing boltons/etc. i guess thinking on it now it’s fairly #likely but idk it’s just not what interests me about jon i guess. Like obv the point is that resurrection does change you but i want it to #change him differently 😡 more melancholy/detached less rageful sorry!!!!#why does this give me severance by ling ma vibes. zombies not violent per se just endlessly mindlessly repeating their patterns #man that book is good #asoiaf

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laurellerual · 1 year

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Thanks for always being so kind with my asks. You don't have to make it now if you don't have the time but I had this funny idea of an art of Jon and Tyrion meeting again and commenting on each others facial scars. Maybe Ghost is also there to parallel their first meeting.

"I believe I've frightened your wolf. My apologies."

I would love a scene in Winterfell, maybe in the glass gardens. With a strong parallelism with their first meeting. The two will discuss identity and role in society again, in light of the changes and revelations of recent years.

Jon looks like this because I'm a fan of the theory that resurrecting will have this kind of effect on him.

#asoiaf #asoiaf fanart #tyrion lannister #jon snow #ghost #winterfell #resurrected jon #house lannister #house stark #yours suggestion was more funny but it came out like this #twow speculations

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forestcat222 · 2 months

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Love the idea of Jon coming back from the dead and seeing ghosts. Like imagine.

Everything hurt, his limbs felt stiff, his chest felt caved in, he felt like his lungs were battling to drink in air...but he was alive....somehow.

Jon's hands gripped into the furs under him, he recognized this fur, the feeling of the mattress underneath him, he was in bed.

Jon's eyelids were heavy, they were sore and he couldn't open them...he didn't want to, he wanted to rest. A sore pained groan excited Jon's throat then Jon heard a voice. "Oh thank the gods...." Jon felt his breathing hitch, Robb? No that couldn't be Robb, Robb was dead.

Jon forces his eyes open. He sees Robb, Robb wearing a bloody iron crown and torn up clothing, holes all over his torso. Jon's sore eyes widen. "Robb?..." Jon's voice was barely more than a whisper. Robb looks just as shocked as Jon is. "Jon...?" Jon felt his heart start beating painfully fast, as Jon looked at Robb he suddenly felt pain burst in his eyes, a scream ripped from Jon's throat, blood filled his eyes until he could no longer see, everything was red. Jon felt himself fall out of his bed onto the wooden ground. Jon could hear Robbs' frantic voice yelling something. Jon could hear Robbs' voice, but the pain blocked out the words.

After what felt like eternity, everything went black.

Anyways thinking of starting a new AU

#jon snow #game of thrones #asoiaf #robb stark #house stark #jon sees ghosts #ghost Robb #undead jon #resurrected Jon snow

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aeriondripflame · 4 months

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some measure of “been dead since the beginning” with jon snow. the boy borne of a king protected and shrouded by his mother’s blood. the boy hidden in the snow living without the knowledge that he was hiding at all. the boy who was never meant to live.

#on my soapbox thinking about jons resurrection as a chance for new life #but this is also may not make sense i apologize #jon snow #guava.txt

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nightswatchdisbandmentera · 7 months

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A previous post of mine re Jon's resurrection has been doing the rounds lately so I think I need to clarify a few things (because some people seemed to misunderstand what I was saying - thought tbh I'm a bit surprised).

I was not - and have never - made the argument that Jon is going to walk away from his assassination (whether he actually dies or is just severely wounded) - with no ramifications. Obviously there are going to be many mental and physical changes. For one, he's basically become a human pin-cushion. And given that his heart will probably stop, we might see other things like his fingers and toes turning black. There's also a popular theory that he might lose an eye (to complete the Odin symbolism/parallel). Then we remember that he has been betrayed by his subordinates which is obviously going to cause severe trauma. Anger, hurt, and maybe even resignation will be emotions that he has to grapple with. And let us remember that Jon spent five books (but most of all ADWD) ignoring the magic within and around him. So that's even more trauma because he now has to come to terms with the magical changes within him. It's a lot to deal with. His chapters are going to be depressing af. I think most of us, and most of us Jon fans, can agree on this.

But here's the problem: recent fandom discussion re Jon's death has been very narrow and one sided. To certain communities, he has to turn evil or villainous. This view is actually what led me to making that post. Because there has been an uptick in bad faith arguments brought on by people saying "well my fave is held to an impossible standard so I have to make straw man arguments for why we should willfully misinterpret Jon's arc/situation to make him be the bad guy for a change". And this is so incredibly annoying because it achieves nothing except bring in even more bad takes re Jon. I didn't want to point any fingers and I won't do that here because I don't really believe whataboutisms will do us any good. Really, I'm more interested in dispelling the idea that Jon has to turn into some one dimensional, unthinking, evil zombie because that suits a few fans' narratives; and given that I'm a Jon Snow fangirl, I have to defend my boy here.

This is what led me to specifically calling out the idea that Jon will be Stoneheart 2.0 or like Varamyr. The Varamyr comparison was especially jarring because the argument I was going against implied that Jon would be like Varamyr morally. I don't think I need to go too much into why that's a bizarre argument that has absolutely no basis in the text. Before his death, Varamyr had be a local homicidal tyrant who had spend much of his life terrorizing the wildlings beyond the wall. He did not die, warg into an animal, and then go crazy. He was already severely messed up to begin with. So no, it makes no sense to compare him to Jon because they're on two opposite ends of the spectrum morally. Jon is not and will not turn in to a raping, murdering, maniac with no regard for humanity around him. In fact, the one thing that drives Jon's arc is having to make moral choices to do the most good for everyone. GRRM is not going to suddenly change that and turn him evil.

But we can use that ADWD prologue chapter to infer what could happen to Jon in other ways. Varamyr's chapter tells us that a warg who spends too much time in their bonded animal begins to lose himself/herself over time. And most people accept that Jon will become more "wolfish" by spending an extended period of time warging into Ghost. But here's the thing, we do not know how long Jon will be out of commission. And we do not know the rate at which one begins to merge with their familiar. So it also doesn't make sense to say that Jon will completely lose himself to Ghost because there's still so much that's up in the air.

Another thing that often gets overlooked is that there is a spectrum in regards to how resurrected beings function. There are those whose psyches are near permanently damaged and there are those who are relatively high functioning.

Ice wights - the most severe case of mental degradation that we've seen so far. They can hold a grudge (i.e. the wights that attacked LC Mormont) but we haven't seen them communicate or function in any way that's similar to regular humans.

Patchface - on the severe end of the spectrum. We don't really know too many details about what happened to him but the prevailing theory right now is that he is a "wight" brought back through the machinations of the drowned god. Patchface can't communicate normally so he has to do it in cryptic rhymes (which are most certainly prophecies). And let's remember that he had also been dead, with no place for his soul to go, for a few days before being brought back iirc.

Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart - closer to the severe end of the spectrum but I wouldn't say she's the most extreme case. She's singularly focused on getting revenge on the Boltons and Lannisters who were responsible for her family's downfall - more recently, her son's murder. Her body is severely degraded as well. But I wouldn't say she's on the same level as Patches just because the only reason she cannot communicate is because her throat was cut through. Still she can form thought, lead a group (the BWB), and if fan theories are correct about a RW 2.0 coming, she's even capable of carrying out semi-large scale conspiracy. But as I outlined in my previous post, Catelyn isn't doing the revenge thing because dying and being resurrected automatically turns someone into a "crazy monster". Catelyn, quite literally, watched the last of her line die right in front of her. And, she had also been severely depressed by her husband's death and the news of Bran's and Rickon's deaths prior to the RW. So as she was in her last moments, she was clawing her face with her own nails, screaming in anguish. Which led to her murdering Jinglebell!

Beric - pretty high functioning. Can lead a group of people, can fight, can communicate well enough with those around him. However, he cannot eat, sleep, his blood has turned back, etc. He also loses his memories. BUT let's remember that he was brought back several times which means that there were more adverse effects with each resurrection; and he became so tired of it that he gave his breath of life to Catelyn the minute he got the chance to. And Beric was not some unthinking zombie wrecking havoc across the Riverlands, killing everyone he could get his hands on. He did not lose his morality, nor did he lose his sense of purpose (well, he is singularly focused on carrying out the task delegated to him by Ned Stark). There's obviously a sense of loss (again losing human anatomical functions and also the memory loses) but he hasn't become some one dimensional character.

Coldhands - we don't really know exactly what brought him back (most likely COF magic) but he's relatively high functioning. Sure, he is like Beric in that he doesn't eat or sleep but he can think, he can plan, he can function mentally with little to no constraints. He's not going around murdering people willy nilly and being a menace to society. He is focused on doing something beyond the wall but we don't know too much about him. But we have hints that he is a skinchanger(!) and that could've helped him maintain his faculties.

Melisandre - no on page confirmation yet but the popular theory is that she is some form of fire wight (she doesn't need to eat, sleep, etc, like Beric and Coldhands). However, Mel functions as well as anyone else. And no, she's not burning people because she died - meaning that all people who die and are resurrected get really into human sacrifice. Mel's religion (and even background since she's from Asshai) is already heavily marked by these practices; just like Varamyr was already a morally degraded man before the ADWD prologue chapter. Mel is also decidedly NOT one-dimensionally evil, and GRRM has said before that she's his most misunderstood character.

As evidenced above, there's quite a few differences with the people brought back. There's no one-size-fits-all shoe for everyone. So no, Jon won't become Beric 2.0 or Stoneheart 2.0 or Coldhands 2.0 because that's just not how it works. He'll be his own being, something new.

But here's the thing, Jon is already different from all of these people in life. As @swordsandarms has had to point out multiple times (to a point where I'd imagine it's become quite the chore for them), Jon is a completely new entity by virtue of him being a magical being - something that neither Catelyn Stark nor Beric Dondarrion were. So even if we accept that they establish a lot of the changes that wights face, we should also make sure to point out that there is a massive difference between them and Jon. Saying that the effects on Jon are going be less severe due to him spending some time in Ghost is not at all saying that he'll get away scot-free. Pointing out that Ghost is not some savage animal but a direwolf who displays human-like characteristics and intelligence (that is quite ahead of his siblings) isn't saying that Jon will face no changes. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone in fandom who argues that Jon will just get up and resume life as usual.

And lastly, something else I want to call attention to is that we should be looking to already established precedent among other wargs and skinchangers. Because here's the thing, Jon's death and rebirth is going to be a massive event in the magical realm; I mean so many practitioners of different magic systems have seen it in some way or the other. From a Doylist perspective, Jon's death serves as a vehicle to bring him closet to magic. By the time he gets back he'll be a more practiced and powerful warg, he'll possibly be on the receiving end of more powerful and frequent prophetic visions, he could also gain the ability to wield fire magic (e.g., making his own Lightbringer a la Beric and as foreshadowed by his ADWD dream), and he's certainly going to become a fully fledged skinchanger. We know this last part to be true because of precedent set by Bran and Arya - Bran who had a near death experience and Arya who lost her eyesight - and I'd argue that we can throw Jojen Reed into the mix as well. So when we talk about the changes death will bring, we should also talk about these characters who obviously serve as foreshadowing as well.

(@daenystheedreamer gonna tag you for visibility since you tagged me in a previous post. Really sorry I didn't manage to reply in time but I think you deleted the post. Hope it's ok tho but long story short, you didn't misinterpret that post at all and what you said was exactly my point. But yeah, just letting you know that we're in agreement lol).

#asoiaf #jon snow #I just want discussion about jon's resurrection to be more nuanced but I don't think things will change much unfortunately #not until winds comes out #but this might also be a by product of the pretty horrendous takes about jon #that have taken form in the last few years since dance's publication #forgive me for spelling mistakes but I'm tired and exasperated so here we are #valyrianscrolls

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winterprince601 · 10 months

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if, and i suspect this might be the case, jon comes back a liiiittle bit wrong (fire and blood levels elevated) i am actually foaming at the mouth anticipating the possible parallels between him and lady stoneheart. completely at odds in life but thematically joined by the common cause of seeking ruthless vengeance for house stark in their afterlives? IMPECCABLE.

i've also always thought it incredibly tragic, without pointing fingers, that jon and cat loved the same people fiercely but could never understand each other past their mutual fear. with the social conventions that bound them in life stripped away, it would be incredibly satisfying to recognise that protective and loving core they share, corrupted by suffering though it might be.

#this is all obviously hypothetical cough cough grrm #and i don't want jon to steal lady stonehearts style obviously #he needs to be wrong in his own special way #cat's transformation into lady s from a warm capable and determined woman is it's own kind of tragic #i want fresh pain from jon's resurrection #asoiaf #jon snow #catelyn stark #catelyn tully #house stark #winds of winter #a song of ice and feels #asoiaf theories #asoiaf theory

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pussymaster580 · 3 months

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No one understands Jon Snow post resurrection asexual (asexual because of death, and like is your dick really gonna work if your a corpse) x satin flowers ( doesn’t enjoy sex after ya know being a whore, and sees sex as only a form of please / derogatory ) like I do, when I say I like Jon x satin, I need their relationship to be absent of sex but like they are very much infatuated, rely on each other, this is like the only form because, otherwise the power dynamic between Jon and Satin is questionable....... i feel like i should have to explain and i wont

#I need to know if other people think the same way #asoiaf #jon snow #jon post resurrection #jon x satin #this is a ramble

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