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shroomtalker · 3 years

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The Inbetween | theory

hello! if this is your first time seeing me, my name is ryder and i really like the dream smp universe. i write theories a lot, and this is probably going to be my favorite one! on my page i have written a ghostbur/wilbur theory and another karl theory, but i also post art! hope you enjoy this one especially after watching the most recent Tales of the SMP episode: The Masquerade. obvious spoiler warnings ahead!

The Inbetween is a bridge between the afterlife and the present day Dream SMP.

if you are unfamiliar with what has happened today, karl has showed us a very angelic like universe. a large castle that seemingly reaches the heavens. it is a place where time travelers go to have a sense of ease, but don't remember coming there or being there.

i want to focus on what the inbetween might actually be for this portion of the post. this “dimension” or world is somewhere other than the smp itself. it is a place where tranquility and silence meet. the castle of peace, if you will.

this is also the middle ground of everything. it’s the grey area of what we know of as the smp and perhaps even the after life. time travelers like karl himself use this as a grounding to have a sense of oneself. they might not remember where they are, but they feel comforted. a place to understand.

but who wrote those books that were laid out for karl to read? specifically Knowledge I that was at the tree in front of the swing set? i see a lot of people saying this might be karl writing to himself but i think that’s way too straight forward. if he ends up being there and doesn’t remember, why would he write completely anonymously to himself? (side note: not completely dissing the theory it is 100% probable i just like to think differently :D)

dream xd is referred to as a god. he is the protector and has canonical access to creative and enforces the rules of the dream smp. but, as a “god”, where would he be a majority of the time? of course not the mortal realm. but.. what if The Inbetween itself?

this deity/being comes from the inbetween and is probably one of the knights or rulers of the great castle, a place filled with knowledge and answers to questions some may have. those books were written by dream xd himself because he knows, as a god, of karl’s abilities; the power to shapeshift into time and bend the rules a bit to write those stories. dream xd wants to help karl understand his powers and what he can do along with prevent him from losing himself to the dimensions of time.

also quick note: we know that karl is losing his memories slowly but surely due to the constant trival of time. i mentioned in my last theory about how ghostbur could be a manifestation for tommy to feel some sort of comfort with the lost of dsmp!wilbur. what if this manifestation came from the inbetween? a part of wilbur was formed in this dimension and was sent to the mortal realm as some sort of guardian angel? let me know your thoughts!

Ranboo is connected to The Inbetween.

okay so here is the second part of this theory on the inbetween itself. when we first saw this dimension, there was a potted wither rose on a table right in front of karl. he paid no attention to it, but of course, everything has some sort of relevance. chekov's gun.

ranboo in his little hut by philza and technoblade's house has a wither rose in a flower pot. this might be a coincidence, but what if a wither rose gives an odd feeling to ranboo? a feeling of a tranquil place or calmness. the wither rose is a patch in ranboo's memory; it is the only thing he could remember that has some relevance to him but he doesn't know why. it's stitched into an already messed up puzzle.

ranboo's other half is unknown. IRL ranboo himself hasn't spoken about what it could possibly be, but we do know that if you combine 40+ theories we get it right (according to ranboo on a stream).

the inbetween is completely white with the exceptions of gold and greens for nature. ranboo's other half is white.. but his eye on that side is red. you don't find similarities of red with white, esp if red has significant meaning to evil and rage. but what is something that is important is red? something we have overlooked with dsmp!ranboo because there was no connecting thread?

the egg.

from the tales of the smp: the masquerade stream we soon know that the egg's origin is of the estate that technoblade's character and ranboo's character live in. but ranboo's skin was.. off. all the other character's (beside fundy, which will be in a separate post) have masks with no correlation to their present day character. except ranboo. the infamous red and green with the black and white.

could this character that ranboo played has any relativeness to present day dsmp!ranboo? is this how the dreamon originally formed and connected itself to ranboo?

WOW! sorry this is a longer post, i just had so much to cover about this new dimension we saw. i hope you all enjoyed these theories even if it was all over the place. i love writing and interacting with this amazing community so feel free to message or submit an ask about anything i have posted!

#dream smp #dream smp theory #dsmp #dsmp theory #karl jacobs #karl jacobs theory #tales of the smp #tales of the smp theory #dsmp ranboo #dream smp ranboo #ranboo theory #ranboo #mcyt #mcyt theory

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thecoleopterawithana · 5 years

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Hello, I'm the last anon you answered to. I'm sorry if I came out as defensive because it wasn't my intention. In fact I've always thought that John was bisexual until I started questioning everything. ( I'm a bisexual guy myself and I'm perfectly happy with the way I am ! ) It's just that I feel like Yoko would just say whatever she wants on John to suit her agenda. John's sexuality had always been an interesting topic and dropping something like that would gaib her publicity this is why I --

I question the authenticity of her claims. She could have lied about it just to attract attention… And I’d be disappointed because John was in fact my idol and he gave me the strength to come out as bi to my family. But there’s so many anecdotes about him being homophobic that it just makes me sad and this is why I hardly doubt that he was a bisexual man…As for the Cynthia quote I heard her say something like “ John was afraid of homosexuality just like everyone ) in a video on Youtube –

I am very conflicted because I’ve watched videos of John ( interviews etc ) and many comments said that he was very skilled at manipulating people and wasn’t as honest as he appeared to be, which is why I doubt. John had always been the rebellious type and I started thinking that he was using the bisexuality topic to shock and make people talk about it which is disappointing. Was he dropping hints that he was bi to piss off people and make publicity ? This is what I believe : (There is also -

Something he said to Alaister Taylor where he said that he was trying to spread the rumor that he was gay or bi just for fun and he told him that he would never shag a man because just the thought of it turned him off… Yet he also told him that he adored Brian so much that he would have done anything with him ( he contradict himself here. ) So yeah I didn’t want to be rude. I apologize. I think I need reassurance. Could you please analyse everything I said if u don’t mind please ? : (

Anon 2

At the very least all these years later isn’t it circumstantially suggested that John had very private gay encounters, and was uncomfortable making them public, yet wanted to hint at them so he could deal with this matter int he future? He was protecting his privacy and his ego, and perhaps wasn’t yet ready to reveal either his encounters or mixed feelings of bisexuality. His encounters have been protected by those with whom he was involved, people thameant a lot to him, no?

Anon 3

hey! by any chance, do you have knowledge of the quotes where john said “sex with girls felt like a performance after the first time” and “i was never sexually attracted to women before yoko”? i am SURE i’ve seen the first one somewhere on tumblr, though the second one is more of a quote of a quote so i’m not sure if it’s real or not dfkdjk thanks, anyway!

Anon 4

Hello! Is it true that John used to be very attracted to the drag scene in St Pauli ( I guess that was the town I read about ) and that basically the drag / gay scene made him feel comfortable and at home? Says a lot about him!

@tbhmarjj

I adore you, thank u for this blog and ur beautiful mind. i doubt johns bisexuality at times tbh considering he went to great lengths for publicity and he wanted to be an LGBT ally, be cool and outspoken and as he himself said it was trendy to be bi. but then again he was obsessed with Paul in so many ways and he was the embodiment of John’s ideal man. beautiful, talented, intellectual. I’ll be patiently awaiting ur posts exploring Paul’s views on johns sexuality.Thank u

Hello again, anon!

I want to begin by thanking you for getting back to me after I answered your ask and for clarifying where you were coming from when you wrote it. It really is quite hard to fully get the tone of a written message, especially one that is so short that you have no context to draw from to get the emotional meaning behind it. It really appeared to me when I read it that the concern was not who was saying it (Yoko) but about what was being said (John was bisexual). I can now see that was not the case and I appreciate that you’ve made that clear.

I also hope you don’t mind, but I’ve taken the opportunity to include in this answer all of the other asks I’ve been receiving regarding John’s sexuality. It’s clearly a topic of great interest in this community. So I’ll be attempting to address all the points raised here. Again, this is nothing definitive; only my personal readings of the situation as I find it at the moment.

Before I do answer, though, I’d just like everyone to take a deep breath and a step back. Let’s try to examine this topic a bit more objectively.

I understand that sex is kind of major in our society. Our notion of identity is tightly bound to our classified sexuality and gender. Sexual relationships (or amorous relationships) are seen as the epitome of human connection and the ideal everyone should be striving for. And people fundamentally want to be loved and not alone, so it makes sense that figuring out who is a potential companion (and if that companion is interested back) is such a big deal.

But despite these layers of meaning and societal pressures, we should keep in mind what sex represents, essentially, from an evolutionary point of view.

For social animals who derive pleasure from sexual stimulation, sexual intercourse is – like all the other kinds of affection – a way to build connections.

If you want to find examples in nature, just look at our ape cousins, the bonobos. The also called pygmy chimpanzee lives in a matriarchal society where sexual behaviour plays an essential role in strengthening social bonds, lowering tension and keeping the peace. Bonobos don’t discriminate between gender or age (except between mothers copulating with their own adult sons, so as to prevent cross-breeding). It’s the true “free love” society; evolution took “make love, not war” and ran with it.

Our own culture seems more similar to that of bonobos’ northern neighbours, the common chimp. Their patriarchy is more conservative regarding sexual intercourse, which is mainly used for reproduction purposes, and their power structure is based around intricate political games, where males form alliances and try to get public support in order to overthrow the ruling party.

I find it endlessly curious to look at these two species, whose physical separation by the Congo river made them diverge so starkly in their social organization, and compare them to the struggle between these same two natures that we find in our own society.

All this to say that, from a simply biological point of view, I have to agree with John and Yoko when they say that everyone must be bisexual. If sexual intercourse as a social behaviour is, inherently, all about establishing bonds and connections, the extent to which those connections are “allowed” to be built depends entirely on the hierarchal structure that same society is trying to preserve. In other words, what is classified as morally right or wrong is more reflective of the rules in place to keep that society working as it is, than it is of what is naturally present as a drive.

If your brain is primed to seek pleasure and sexual intercourse brings you pleasure independently of the partner’s gender, then the partner’s gender should be inconsequential.

But unlike bonobos, humans are kind of touchy about touching. So there are other levels of information influencing behaviour. The processes of socialization – of internalizing the norms and ideologies of society – and enculturation – by which people learn the dynamics of their surrounding culture and acquire values and norms appropriate or necessary in that culture and worldviews – are as determinant as the genetic factors influencing behaviour. In fact, this added education can be so effective in curbing your “primal instincts”, that one might forget they have them in the first place.

Thus, the concepts of gender identity and sexual orientation are a constantly shifting construct based on the various interactions between your genetic makeup and social influences.

I just think that, in order to have this discussion, it’s important to separate the various levels of it and be clear about which we are referring to.

There is the basic evolutionary drive to seek pleasure and form connections.

There is the social education about that same drive and how it is allowed to manifest itself.

And integrating all these different signals and information – various potentials which manifested as attraction – there finally is a behaviour, a choice.

And finally, there’s the external point of view of other members of society looking in and trying to discern other people’s drives and how they relate to their choices (that’s us now). The problem is, we often throw our own drives and choices into the mix, especially with regards to something as personally defining as sexual orientation.

So we have to make very clear in our minds what is the end goal here. Why are we interested in discussing this topic? Are we looking to discern as much of the truth as we can get it, objectively trying to understand these human beings? Or are we trying to confirm our own projections on them? And please, don’t take me wrong. All these are valid reasons to be interested in a subject. Often how it resonates with us, so personally, is vitally important to reaching a greater understanding about ourselves and learning how to communicate that to others.

But in the same way a piece of music can make you have a transformative emotional experience that the artist didn’t necessarily go through, it’s important to remember that our own inner-life might be affecting how we examine others. Better be mindful of what we project, lest we think are finally seeing inside another person when in fact we are only looking at our own reflection. (And honestly, I believe getting to truly know ourselves in this processes can be a hundred times more valuable than knowing the other. By learning to recognize ourselves we can better understand other people and vice-versa.)

So if it is important to you that John is bisexual, my honest opinion is that all the information can be read in a way that confirms it. We’ll hardly ever know for sure, and based on what we do know, that can certainly be the takeaway.

But if we want to objectively examine John’s sexuality, we shouldn’t bring in a confirmation bias. Meaning that we should be emotionally detached from the outcome, as long as it is as close to the truth as we can get. But this is only where I’m coming from, and I’m a bit of a scientist. It’s totally fair if you’re not in it for the same reasons. Though again, working under the assumption that you want to know my stance on it, let’s proceed.

I understand your reservations regarding Yoko as an unreliable narrator. To analyse Yoko’s motivations would be an interesting topic, but one which I will not go in at the moment as I don’t feel sufficiently informed about Yoko as a person to give an extensive examination.

But in my opinion, there is a whole lot of other information available from which to draw from other than Yoko’s statements.

I also get your and @tbhmarjj‘s concerns about John’s declarations during the 70s. But it’s the same question I posed in the previous post: Was the “bisexual chic” fad of the 1970s merely a publicity stunt for those involved? Even if it was, did it make the experimentations undertaken any less true? Were they just faking it for the press or were they finally allowed to try and be open about it?

Because I come from the biological background that places sex as a positive social interaction like any other, meaning that its purpose is to create bonds and the pleasure is our “reward” for doing it, I tend to believe that the behaviours were genuine. The drive there is real. As real as the internal constraints that would act on them as a result of societies shifting expectations and permissions. And this socialization is as determinant in the creation of sexual attraction as anything. So based on our definition of sexual orientation, all those bi rockstars of the 70s could have effectively stopped identifying as bi once the new social norm overrun their own internal drives and the previous less conservative status quo. That didn’t make them less bi when they were.

It’s funny, but in terms of gender and sexuality, nothing is real so everything is.

So yeah, I think that John could have been bisexual the second he felt he was. But because the social tide was likely to shift, it was better to also maintain a measure of deniability: it was just for show, it’s not serious, I was just taking the mickey out of you and you fell for it! Of course John was smart enough to leave space there to retract. He and Paul had mastered the art as communicators through song. They could claim them to mean everything and nothing as it suited them. As Anon 2 says, it’s a protective measure.

So I think that at some point in time, John genuinely identified as bisexual. Now whether he acted on it or not is another questioned entirely. As Anon 2 points out, there are various circumstantial accounts, but these are always tougher to verify.

I tend to believe Yoko when she says:

So did Lennon ever have sex with men?

“No, I don’t think so,” says Ono. “The beginning of the year he was killed, he said to me, ‘I could have done it, but I can’t because I just never found somebody that was that attractive.’ Both John and I were into attractiveness—you know—beauty.”

I ask what she makes of the people outside the building, the crowds still at Strawberry Fields.

Ono misunderstands, or mishears (or is simply focused on the last strand of our conversation), and continues to talk about sex.

“I don’t make anything out of it. When you’re not really interested in that sort of sex, you don’t think about it. Both John and I surprisingly were very passive people. Unless somebody made a thing out of it, if they made a move, I wouldn’t even think about it.”

— in Yoko Ono: I Still Fear John’s Killer by Tim Teeman for the Daily Beast (13 October 2015).

At least I believe he at least never “fully” did it, in the sense of full-blown anal sex. I think there might have been “milder” homosexual interactions, such as handjobs, that could be rationalized as not entirely gay (the thing with Brian in Spain being one of them.)

Regarding the drag scene in Hamburg Anon 4 was asking about, I agree that it also provides information about John. Though I think it’s mainly about his gender identity rather than his sexual orientation (though the two are invariably linked in the construct as well).

Here are some quotes about it:

With his four months’ greater experience, Sheridan was an ideal guide to the Reeperbahn’s more exotic diversions, like the Schwülen laden. Stu Sutcliffe later wrote home in amazement that the transvestites were ‘all harmless and very young’ and it was actually possible to speak to one ‘without shuddering’. Though raised amid the same homophobia as his companions, John seemed totally unshocked by St Pauli’s abundant drag scene; indeed, he often seemed actively to seek it out. ‘There was one particular club he used to like,’ Tony Sheridan remembers, ‘full of these big guys with hairy hands, deep voices—and breasts. But they used to make an effort to talk English. There was something about the place that seemed to make John feel at home.’

— In John Lennon: The Life by Philip Norman (2008).

And according to Horst Fascher (bouncer at the Indra Club and the Kaiserkeller):

It wasn’t just girls that were on offer to young english rockers. Monica’s Bar was Hamburg’s notorious transvestite club. For one or two English musicians, Monica’s was just another part of the Hamburg experience.

HORST FASCHER: One night Monica said, “Come, come and look. One of your boys is in the séparé.” “And who is it?” And she said, “One of the Beatles.” “Let me look”. She said, “Be careful. Look only sneaky-like.” But I did. I grabbed the curtain, pulled it aside and there was sitting John in… in a position with that girl, and you know. He felt really ashamed and I said, “John, don’t worry man. I did that all before.”

— In The Beatles Biggest Secrets. [Transcription is my own and I’m not too certain of it.]

Though there certainly might have been an aspect of sexual interest to it, I think John’s fascination with the drag scene was also the kinship with the queerness he felt inside himself; mainly in regards to him wanting to express his more sensitive side, which is coded as feminine in our society. So I think seeing men indulging in femininity and nonnormative behaviour resonated with him.

Also, I think it’s even more important to understand John’s relationship with sex in general, regardless of the partner.

To that end, the quote mentioned by Anon 3 is of special relevance:

When I was a kid, I wanted to shag every attractive woman I saw. I used to dream that it would be great if you could just click your fingers and they would strip off and be ready for me. I would spend most of my teenager years fantasising about having this kind of power over women. The weird thing is, when the fantasies came true they were not nearly so much fun. One of my most frequent dreams was seducing two girls together, or even a mother and a daughter. That happened in Hamburg a couple of times and the first time it was sensational. The second time it got to feel like I was giving a performance. You know how when you make love to a woman that the moment you come, you get a buzz of relief and just for a moment you don’t need anyone or anything. The more women I had, the more the buzz would turn into a horrible feeling of rejection and revulsion at what I’d been doing. As soon as I’d been with a woman, I wanted to get the hell out.

— John Lennon to Alistair Taylor (Brian Epstein’s assistant), 1965. In his autobiography With the Beatles: A Stunning Insight by The Man who was with the Band Every Step of the Way (2003).

And another important passage is in reference to Janov’s Primal Scream Therapy:

Well, his thing is to feel the pain that’s accumulated inside you ever since your childhood. […] The worst pain is that of not being wanted, of realising your parents do not need you in the way you need them. When I was a child I experienced moments of not wanting to see the ugliness, not wanting to see not being wanted. This lack of love went into my eyes and into my mind. […] Most people channel their pain into God or masturbation or some dream of making it. […] But for me at any rate it was all part of dissolving the Godtrip or father-figure trip. Facing up to reality instead of always looking for some kind of heaven.

— John Lennon, interviewed by Robin Blackburn and Tariq Ali for Red Mole (8-22 March 1971). [I really can’t stop pointing to this quote as one of the most important in order to understand John Lennon.]

As he reiterates in ‘I Found Out’ (1970): Some of you sitting there with yer cock in yer hand / Don’t get you nowhere don’t make you a man

To me, John’s pursuit of sex is, like most things in his life, essentially about filling this black-hole of emotional pain. He internalized the lack of love from his parents, which went into his eyes and mind, until he himself believed he was unlovable. This lack of self-esteem translates into a lot of pain and the need for an external solution for that pain.

The external solution is not wanting to feel so vulnerable any more. This can be achieved either by trying to seize control, by exerting it over others or having them look up to you (e.g. “fantasising about having this kind of power over women”; “some dream of making it”). Or it can be achieved by handing control over and being taken care of (e.g. “people channel their pain into God”, “I’ve seen religion from Jesus to Paul”.)

Sex as an activity can play into these various dynamics: it can be used to feel power over others, as John started out; it can be used as an escapist distraction, like a drug (e.g. “you get a buzz of relief and just for a moment you don’t need anyone or anything”); and it can be used as giving yourself over and being loved, looking to receive that which you can’t get from yourself.

As time passed and the first two solutions stopped working, I think John focused on the third: sex in the context of an emotionally close relationship as the ultimate intimacy and proof that he was loved. And because he wanted to absolve himself of responsibility, to be taken care of, his partner needed to be someone on the other end, someone who had control. In our culture, this reads as a masculine figure (e.g. “father-figure trip”).

This may be from a female, whose masculine qualities were what attracted John in the first place:

In this intense, intimate and revealing original cassette recording of a private conversation in 1969 between John Lennon and Yoko Ono, the couple speaks primarily about Yoko’s past relationships, her music and art, and their random views on sex, love, promiscuity, and homosexuality. […] [Lennon] adds that he had never met an attractive woman that had sexually aroused him to any great degree.

— Description of the 45-minute audiotape auctioned in 2009 by Alexander Autographs.

I used to say to him, ‘I think you’re a closet fag, you know.’ Because after we started to live together, John would say to me, ‘Do you know why I like you? Because you look like a bloke in drag. You’re like a mate.’

— Yoko Ono, interviewed for New York Magazine (25 May 1981).

Or the partner he was looking for could be found in the (often dominant) person he was most emotionally invested in his whole life.

All I want is you / Everything has got to be just like you want it to

And in a society that establishes that the closest two people can be, the greatest intimacy they can share, the ultimate declaration of love is to live in a monogamous amorous relationship, is it any wonder that John felt he could only believe in their relationship if they were together like that? Is it any wonder that he would doubt Paul’s affections because Paul apparently wasn’t willing to express them like that?

JOHN: It’s a plus, it’s not a minus. The plus is that your best friend, also, can hold you without… I mean, I’m not a homosexual, or we could have had a homosexual relationship and maybe that would have satisfied it, with working with other male artists. [faltering] An artist – it’s more – it’s much better to be working with another artist of the same energy, and that’s why there’s always been Beatles or Marx Brothers or men, together. Because it’s alright for them to work together or whatever it is. It’s the same except that we sleep together, you know? I mean, not counting love and all the things on the side, just as a working relationship with her, it has all the benefits of working with another male artist and all the joint inspiration, and then we can hold hands too, right?

SHEVEY: But Yoko is a very independent person. Isn’t it— [inaudible]

JOHN: Sure, and so were the men I worked with. The only difference is she’s female.

SHEVEY: But you didn’t find it difficult to make that transition?

JOHN: Oh yeah. I mean, it took me four years. I’m still not – I’m still only coming through it, you know.

— Interview with Sandra Shevey (June 1972).

I know I keep posting this quote, but I don’t think he can make it more obvious than that: it’s not about the sex. Or rather, the sex is not the primary thing.

He didn’t push all those years because he was uncontrollably horny for Paul. John just wants a physical manifestation, a more tangible “proof”, of his emotional connections. He wants to be able to hold hands, be held and perhaps also have sex with his best friend; he needs those proofs of love through the means of physical affection because he won’t believe Paul’s love for him is there otherwise (or that it’s as great as John’s).

Would society normalizing other kinds of relationships – such as friendships – to be as important or on the same level as amorous (romantic/sexual) ones, have helped John and Paul? Most likely.

Would society normalizing same-sex amorous relationships have helped John and Paul? Perhaps. (For this one we would have to look more closely at Paul’s needs and desires.)

All this to say that John’s idea of sexuality was extremely influenced by society, and in his case, the rule “amorous relationships are the normative ones” outweighed the “heterosexual relationships are the normative ones”.

The conflict occurred when from Paul’s perspective, the priority of the rules was the other way around. I think Paul was ready to ignore society’s norm and live his life with his friendship with John as the most important relationship. But he also wanted a heterosexual one. (But more on that on a post of its own.)

For now, I hope I have more or less managed to express my thoughts on the matter of John’s sexuality.

Thank you so much for reading through all that and for reaching out in the first place! I truly appreciate it!

#John Lennon #paul mccartney #yoko ono #the beatles #asks me why #I'm not a homosexual or we could have had a homosexual relationship #he could be a real soft sweetie #paul is a concept by which we measure our pain #touching is good #and when i touch you i feel happy inside #the person I actually picked as my partner #johnny #macca #alistair taylor #Brian Epstein #Tony Sheridan #Horst Fascher #meta #my stuff

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jeremystrele · 5 years

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Clare Bowditch On Overcoming Self-Doubt + Being Your Own Kind Of Girl

Family

Ashe Davenport

Clare and her husband Marty at home with her twin sons Oscar and Elijah (12) and daughter Asha (16). Flowers by Babylon Flowers. Plants by Hello Botanical. Photo – Sarah Collins of Work + Co.

Clare at home in Melbourne’s inner north. Photo – Sarah Collins of Work + Co.

Clare with her husband Marty, who she played in bands with for years before admitting they loved each other. Photo – Sarah Collins of Work + Co.

Photo – Sarah Collins of Work + Co.

Twins Oscar and Elijah. Photo – Sarah Collins of Work + Co.

Clare with her eldest child Asha. Photo – Sarah Collins of Work + Co.

Clare with Elijah and Oscar. Photo – Sarah Collins of Work + Co.

Clare recently released her poignant memoir, Your Own Kind Of Girl. Flowers by Babylon Flowers. Plants by Hello Botanical. Photo – Sarah Collins of Work + Co.

In the kitchen with the fam! Photo – Sarah Collins of Work + Co.

Clare Bowditch raised her family in an urban community in Thornbury, in a house with no back fence and a mulberry tree in the yard. She creates without fences too, whether it’s music, her memoir or her company Big Hearted Business. She doesn’t like to compartmentalise. Her feelings are a package deal.

Clare’s new book, Your Own Kind of Girl is a special gift about overcoming self-doubt and finding your creative voice, but at the book launch she only wanted to say thanks. She presented flowers to all the people who helped her, and at one point asked an entire row of extended family to stand in the audience so they could be applauded too.

We met for lunch at North Island in North Fitzroy. She wore an orange printed dress, cinnamon coloured sunglasses and bright earrings that fluttered either side of her face. Clare Bowditch is fresh flowers personified, and orders a ‘stiff piccolo,’ because she’s no shrinking violet.

Virginia Woolf said you need a fierce attachment to an idea in order to see it through. What was yours to your book? What kept you coming back to it?

When I was 21, I promised myself I’d one day write it, which was 21 years ago now. It took that long. I needed to wait and see if my life worked out or not. Back then I couldn’t have imagined it would. I was dealing with what I now know was anxiety in turbo drive. I was in the throws of a nervous breakdown, but I found some things that helped and I was able to recover. Through art, creativity and techniques to manage my anxiety, I was able to imagine a future beyond my immediate circumstances. I promised at some stage I’d pass the baton. If I look at the past two decades of work, I think that’s what I’ve been trying to do. To keep generating that feeling. I imagined one day I’d be a grown up with kids and a dog and someone to love, where I’d make music and then write a book. It’s curious to me and quite wonderful that it’s indeed what’s happened.

Would you say you manifested it?

I took the action steps, I guess. I had a really clear dream as a kid of what I wanted to do. I forgot what it was, as we often do in life. Things get in the way, our self-doubt gets in the way, but then I learned some ways to get through it.

What do you find works best for you in overcoming your self-doubt? I know you named your anxiety Frank, which is great.

Frank is an umbrella title for a feeling of foreboding. I came up with it during the very early recovery stage of my breakdown, when I didn’t really know how to separate my emotions. Now I know it was just anxiety that needed training. Reading Jack Kornfield helped a lot, as did a really practical little book by Dr Claire Weekes called Peace from Nervous Suffering. She was a stalwart of the Australian post-war veteran field. She helped people deal with anxiety before it really had a name. Slowly, slowly I was able to work past it, but it took until I was 27 to have the guts to put my own songs in the world. I’d been building that courage from age 21. I still have self-doubt, but these days it can motivate me. It tells me I’m onto something. My songs have always sat in me like pets. I can’t rush them. They come when they’re ready and my job is to make room for them. So I just keep showing up with my pen and paper.

Who did you write your book for?

It’s dedicated to Rowena, my sister who I lost when I was young, Doctor Clare Weekes and my dear friend John Patrick Hedigan, who was the first person I shared my songs with at 22. We started a band together and he introduced me to this cool drummer called Marty (now my husband). John fell in love with my best mate and they went on to have kids too. He passed away earlier this year, so his story is in there too.

It’s a love story and it’s dedicated to the legacies of their grand lives, but I think it’s for anyone who is still suffering from self-doubt and needs something positive to read. The first half isn’t an easy read, but it’s a true read, and I really believe if we tell the truth it helps people feel less alone. It’s a hopeful story.

It sounds like emotionally expensive behaviour, for which we’re eternally grateful. You give so much of yourself in your music too. How do you replenish the tank?

I think it’s a self-generating engine, the giving and getting, so that’s fulfilling in itself. I’m also restored by the same things that helped me recover when I was 21, baking, gardening, walking, reading, crushing flowers in my hand and smelling them, hanging out with my kids. Simple small things, like sitting with my cup of tea and reading my Design Files!

How do you and Marty share the parenting load?

We were in a band together for four years before we finally admitted we were in love with each other, then we became parents soon after that. So the working relationship was already pretty clear, and we had a firm idea of how we wanted to parent. It was crazy, foolhardy behaviour, but it worked for us. Early on I took on the role as primary carer due to biological reasons, I was a breastfeeding mum, but both of us have always been all hands on deck. I feel very fortunate that we get along well. We have to make an effort these days, but he’s my biggest champion, really, just like I am for him.

Your Own Kind of Girl is also the name of a pretty special song of yours about body acceptance at any size. What does it mean to you?

I wrote that one for my audience, in response to some beautiful letters I received. I often still get choked up when I play it. I wanted to encourage people to count themselves in. I had to tell a painful story of my own to do that, but I truly believe our peace and strength comes from accepting ourselves for who we are. Our relationship with our bodies is complex and glorious. It’s a big journey. I’m happy to have a song like that out there. Every time I play it, it reminds me that my instinct was right. We’re more than our size. I didn’t know it for a long time.

The world has already started telling my daughters what they should look like. I’ve got a three year old who is conscious of the size of her belly because someone at daycare told her it’s because she eats too much.

It was three for me too. That’s when I first got the message. Now you get to say to her what my mother said to me: ’You’re not too big, you’re a peach and you’re gorgeous.’

Here’s the reality, our body size is a complex interplay between genetics and the way we store our food, and the way we eat in response to things and the size of our forefathers. We haven’t really been able to have a great conversation around that. But we have frameworks like Health at Every Size and great nutritionists like Ellyn Satter, who has some really useful thinking around food. Have a read of her in the context of your daughter, because your baby girl has done nothing wrong.

I will. Thank you. Is fostering a positive body image something you do consciously in your household?

My kids have never had to have a conversation around it for themselves. Curiously it’s not an issue. I’ve always been really open with them about my history, and what the temptations were likely to be for them based on the images around us and the stories we’re told. They understand not to comment on a person’s size, just as we don’t comment on their gender, colour, sexuality and so on. They get that every human has a right to be here in this world and be who they are. You do, I do, they do. They also understand the complexity of the grief I was brought up in and how that factored in.

Have you found writing your book to be a healing experience?

One of the good things about navigating sadness early on in life is that it gave me the sense that I was never going to be ‘fixed.’ There’s functional and non-functional, and things become non-functional when we have no way to speak the truth about our feelings. I used to think there was some place I’d get to in the future where everything would be perfect. Then I realised there wasn’t, and that’s not such a bad thing.

Carey Grant described his journey to healing as a process of pulling away barnacles and discovering more barnacles. Do you relate to that?

Yes, but there’s gold in there too. That’s why we keep searching. Our barnacles are our circumstances, and we have no say over them, none, just like we can’t choose the weather. Just like I can’t choose my body size or birth. But we have this opportunity to choose the next thought.

Your Own Kind of Girl is about the point in my life I decided to tell myself a different story. If I’d continued to tell myself that there was no hope for me, then that would have perhaps been what was lived out. But I told myself I had a chance at a more hopeful story, and I decided to believe it.

The whole family together at home. Photo – Sarah Collins of Work + Co.

FAMILY FAVOURITES

Rainy day activity

We play a Dutch game called the sjoelbak.

Sunday morning breakfast

My husband is a wonderful cook. Eggs with herbs is his go-to with buttered toast. And a bloody good cup of tea.

Date night?

One of the secrets to working with your partner and still having a love life is going on regular Wednesday night date nights. We usually just find a hole in the wall and toast to the week that’s been.

Go-to album?

Donny Hathaway Live.

Weekend getaway?

We are lucky to have good friends in the town of Castlemaine, it’s only an hour and a half from Melbourne, so it’s the perfect quick getaway. It’s also got a wonderful arts community so sometimes we catch a show at the local theatre.

Ultimate ‘me time’ experience?

Lying in bed with a cuppa and a wonderful book with golden hour light streaming through the window.

Clare’s first book, Your Own Kind Of Girl, is available now from all good bookstores!

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ultrafuturisticbouquetkingd-blog · 5 years

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Relationship Blog Attempts To Address Parental Alienation

“My Ex Pushed Me Out Of The Family”

Recently the following appeared in a relationship blog. While there are currently over 500 comments, upon review, many can be classified into two categories. If they are not ‘spam’ they could be considered judgemental and disconnected from reality.

Upon such a discovery, the troops were rallied with a call for all hands on deck. The community of target parents pulls together with a loyalty that is unshakable and unbreakable. There is a bond that brings this group of target parents together in such unity that if one is under attack from the outside world, we all are.

Below is the letter sent to Meredith, editor of the Boston Globe’s “Loveletters.” More importantly, are the replies posted almost immediately by target parents who passed this around our community for support and setting the record straight.

The full thread can be found here

CALL TO ACTION: Add your reply to the comment section.

SUBMITTED QUESTION

Dear Meredith,

I was married for 23 years. It was not a good marriage. I helped to raise two stepsons and had good relationships with their mothers. My ex and I had two of our own children. It was a very busy household full of homework, football practice, and navigating the pickup and drop-offs for many kids. I actually was responsible for 99 percent of it because my ex could not get away from work.

Our divorce was awful. I was going through major family trauma (including a parent being diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer), and right in the middle of this, my ex asked me to leave. We had been having a lot of issues.

I left and began to work on myself. I rode my bike everywhere. I read books and listened to music. I just was enjoying my life and figuring out who I was. My kids didn't want to have anything to do with me (they were in high school and college at this point). I went to therapy, joined a church. I was hurting a lot. I did fall in love.

I met the love of my life and two years later, we own a home and a dog. My big issue is that my own boys still will not have anything to do with me because my ex sets the narrative. I text and call. I'm not overbearing. Crickets, chirp chirp. I paid for my oldest to go to college by working a few jobs. He didn't want me to attend his ceremony because he didn't want his dad to be hurt. His dad has a girlfriend, for Pete's sake.

I don't know what to do anymore – how to deal with an ex who has pushed me away from my family. My ex feels proud of the alienation. I pray about this all the time, but my heart is broken. Do you have advice for me? I need to heal and wait patiently, but sometimes there are days where I just don’t think that I can make it.

– Hurt

LOVELETTER’S REPLY

Below are the replies posted by the #erased within hours of the posting.

Dear Meredith - You completely missed the boat here. The writer may be the targeted parent of Parental Alienation Syndrome and her children the objects caught in the middle. It doesn't matter how old the children are at the time of the parental split. Next time just end with "This is out of my area of expertise" and "Please talk to a therapist or find a PAS support group". Dear Hurt - I want to let you know there will come a day when your children will come back to you. I want to let you know that your children will appreciate you giving them the space they need right now, but do continue to send them the occasional text message and birthday card (they may not respond today or tomorrow, but eventually they will). Your children are not emotionally strong enough to handle the dynamics of dealing with both of their parents and I'm sure they know you will always be there to greet them with open arms. (Note: When I talk about their father, it's always with respect. If I need to vent about something concerning him, I talk to my friends and leave them out of it).

Serenity111

Hello Meredtith; I wrote a couple of paragraphs yesterday that could help understand the mother’s situation. I found abhorrent how the ignorance of some of your readers abuses an already abused person, with no sympathy whatsoever to her pain, the pain of having her children emotionally murdered by a vindictive and narcissistic previous partner, in punishment for the failure of the relationship. How, one parent may use the children as a weapon to inflict pain to the other parent in a cruel act of emotional family violence (IPV) === And the story goes: == I was talking with someone yesterday, and I heard myself describing this pathology. I think I came up with a very simple description. 1.- The child has two parents; One of the parents will love the child does not matter what, and would never hurt the child. The other parent will hurt the child if she does not comply to her whims. ∴ The child complies with the abusive parent wishes, as she does not want to get hurt. 2.- After a while, the child starts doubting her own feelings. She is supposed to fear him, but ‘why?’, she would ask herself. 3.- There comes the GAL; she says the non-abusive parent must change his behaviour, she tells the child the non-abusive parent MUST stop scarring the child. 4.- Then comes the therapist; The non-abusive parent must stop scaring the child, and must apologize for his behaviour, to the child, he tells the child and the parent. This, said in front of the child to the non-abusive parent. 5-.- The child, who does not know why she is supposed to be scared; Has been told by a therapist that being scared of the non-abusive parent is a valid feeling Has been told by a GAL that the other parent is not up to task. 6.- The child does not know any better, but everyone cannot be wrong, they are professionals, the child tells herself. The child now is 100% convinced that she must reject the non-abusive parent, for valid reasons. She will manufacture reasons. Of course, the initial doubts where received from the abusive parent, not by using English (the child would understand this and be able to reason it out of her system). The abusive parent uploaded the fear on the child by the use of the language of feelings, something the child has not yet completely developed. Gender comment: This is not gender guided; give me a neutral pronoun in English for a person, and I'll use it. In the meantime, this is all I can do. ('It" sounded wrong to me today). === end of the story. == This is real, this is painful. Perhaps the biggest pain anyone can suffer. Losing its child, having its child murdered, while the child is still alive but unavailable. Can you imagine your children disappearing one day, with zero communication, while you know they have unjustified hate towards you? You should learn more about this. Join the Facebook group “Alliance to solve parental alienation”, and read Dr. Childress posts there. You could help your readers understand family abuse. — Raul Zighelboim.

I’m appalled at your insensitivity and that of your readers. The responses try to shame a parent who was caught in a high conflict divorce and is the victim of the unwarranted, manipulative and abusive tactics of the other parent. 22 million parents alone in the US are estranged from their children due to a phenomenon called “Parental Alienation.” It is real, it is painful, it is traumatic and debilitating to the parents who are #erased from their children. Since I left my family in 2015, I too have been #erased from my children’s lives. I left an emotionally abusive marriage but I NEVER left my children. I am completely shut out from their lives and my ex has masterfully brainwashed/altered my children’s minds to think that I never loved them. He has employed tactics like that in a cult. Is this healthy for the children to reject a once loving parent? Is this healthy parenting behaviors when divorce occurs? Is it healthy to try to hurt the other parent? I invite you Ms. Goldstein and most particularly “Hurt” to come to a support group that I now lead along with 2 mental health professionals experienced in parental alienation and listen to members’ painful stories. Come learn about this epidemic and understand the underlying behaviors. I led a group that brought a new documentary to Newton a month ago called “Erasing Family” and 150 people came! Watch the trailer: https://erasingfamily.org/. Also listen to: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/960-cindy-stumpo-is-tough-as-n-29001812/episode/parent-alienation-50342688/ . “Hurt,” I’m sorry that you are experiencing such loss but understand that you are not alone. You did not cause this untenable situation. I’m ecstatic that you found happiness and if you would like to reach out, you can find us at: https://www.meetup.com/New-England-Parental-Alienation-Support-Meetup/members/. Deb Black Co-Host of New England "Parental Alienation"

Dear Readers, While many who commented have good intentions, it is essential to know what “Hurt” is living through is a form of domestic violence. You may read this statement and react with thinking, “What!?!? No way! This, as domestic violence, is a stretch and makes zero sense!” Follow me on this. I believe some of the emotionally charged comments attacking “Hurt” may be rooted in personal experiences, similar to what her children are living. I want to use this thread as a tool to educate and help the 22 million US families who are dealing with this daily. Along with fantastic comments (see Caroncoss, Blackie10, and RedSagitta for great insights!), I want to extend this to include research-based information for everyone reading this. As you consider the following information and perhaps realize this pertains to you, the reader, know that you are not alone. There are Boston and Online Support Group meetings via https://www.meetup.com/New-England-Parental-Alienation-Support-Meetup/ Let’s talk about evidence. First….(via Dr. Amy Baker) THE EIGHT BEHAVIORAL MANIFESTATIONS OF PARENTAL ALIENATION These are the symptoms of parental alienation that appear within alienated children. Generally, the more symptoms present and the more severe the symptoms, the more severe the alienation; all manifestations do not need to be present for alienation to exist. 1. Campaign of denigration: Strong or utter rejection of one parent, willingness to tell others, erasing past positive aspects of relationship and memories. 2. Weak, frivolous, absurd reasons for the rejection: When pressed to explain, the child will give reasons that do not make sense or align with the level of animosity, provide false memories (proclaiming to remember something from a very young age), or are patently untrue. 3. Lack of ambivalence: For the most part, one parent is seen as all good while the other is viewed as all bad. 4. “Independent thinker” phenomenon: The child strongly emphasizes that the favored parent played no role in the child’s rejection of the other parent. The child believes the decision is theirs entirely. 5. Reflexive support of the alienating parent. The alienator can do no wrong, and the erased parent can not do right. 6. Absence of guilt: Alienated children appear to have no qualms about cruel and harsh treatment towards the rejected parent. 7. The presence of borrowed scenarios: Use of words and phrases that mimic or parrot those of the favored parent. 8. Rejection of extended family of rejected parent: Refusal to spend time with or acknowledge formerly beloved family members. While this has become quite lengthy, I will create another reply that addresses the strategies parents use to erase the loving bonds between children and a loving parent… Signed, MiningGypsy

Dear Hurt - I am so sorry you haven't been able to have a relationship with your children. Parent Alienation is real, sadly it is not a stage!!!! I write from experience, so I know it hurts, and I know how debilitating it can be. You are not alone! There are more than just a few of us fighting, healing, supporting, and educating each other on how to navigate the PA world. I admire your strength to keep going, and still having the ability to give without getting anything in return (but rejection). I am pretty sure is called LOVE. Much love and light, Priscila a loving imperfect mother p.s. every situation has a different prospective at different times of our lives, and how we feel and react to pain is very unique to our experiences and values.

Dear Readers, Below are strategies used by parents to alienate their children from the other parent. The alienating parent engages in these strategies against the targeted parent. If you find this has impacted your life, there is help locally. https://www.meetup.com/New-England-Parental-Alienation-Support-Meetup/ Also, if you know someone experiencing this, you must speak up. Kids need both parents. As I work with adult children who experienced this, they all were secretly wishing someone swooped in and called out the bad behavior of the alienating parent. As the child could not do so themselves because of the horrific consequences they would face when standing up for themselves. 17 STRATEGIES USED BY ALIENATORS: 1. Badmouthing 2. Limiting Contact 3. Interfering with communication 4. Interfering with symbolic communication (i.e., pictures and photos are defaced, removed, destroyed) 5. Withdrawal of love if expressing positive toward the target parent 6. Telling the child the targeted parent is dangerous (extreme behaviors include filing false charges with Child Protective Services) 7. Forcing the child to choose between parents 8. Telling the child the targeted parent does not love him or her 9. Confiding in the child rather than a peer or therapist 10. Forcing the child to reject the targeted parent 11. Manipulating the child to spy on the targeted parent. 12. Having the child keep secrets from the targeted parent 13. Referring to the targeted parent by their first name and encouraging the child to do the same 14. Referring to a step-parent as “Mom” or “Dad” and encouraging the child to do the same 15. Withholding medical, academic, and other relevant information from the targeted parent/keeping the targeted parent’s name off medical, academic, and other relevant documents (see your state’s law on this one!) 16. Changing the child’s name to remove any association with the targeted parent 17. Cultivating dependency/undermining the authority of the targeted parent (may include overly permissive parenting by the alienating parent) If any of this resonates with you, please reply or leave a message at https://www.speakpipe.com/voicesoftheerased #kidsneed BOTH parents! Signed, MiningGypsy

Dear Ms. Goldstein, After reading "Hurt's" letter to you dated November 5, 2019, I was quite astonished by you and your commentators' reaction to this woman's pain of losing her children. Studies have shown 86% of High Conflict divorces found that ONE parent, not both will sabotage the relationship between the child and the other parent. This means ONE parent will psychologically manipulate a child into turning against the other parent. With frequency and intensity, the alienating parent manipulates a child into believing that the targeted parent is unloving, unsafe and unavailable. It’s called Parental Alienation (PA). PA is a distinctive, destructive and counterintuitive form of psychological and family violence towards both the child and the rejected family members. It is a worldwide, inter-generational phenomenon and occurs regardless of nationality, religion, socioeconomics, race, or gender, This is NOT ESTRANGEMENT! It is induced psychological splitting in a child … an alignment or enmeshment. Alienated children display unjustified contempt and an attitude of entitlement towards the targeted parent and have a perception of an “all-wonderful” alienating parent and “all-bad” targeted parent. This is a dysfunctional coping mechanism which if not addressed leads to an unstable personality disorder and disrupts social-emotional development throughout a child’s life as a consequence of Parental Alienation. Dr. Jennifer Harman’s studies have confirmed that 22 million parents in the US alone are experiencing Parental Alienation. This means there are at the very least, 22 million children in the US who will most likely manifest difficult behaviors. Statistically, 4-5% of school children under the age of 18 are experiencing some level of mild, moderate, or severe alienating tactics and PA is 3x more prevalent than children on the Autism Spectrum. According to experts, it is psychological and emotional child abuse and is JUST as injurious as physical or sexual abuse and the World Health Organization recognizes Parental Alienation. Those who engage in severe alienating tactics often have a personality disorder. If you think a child could never be brainwashed … think of charismatic cult leaders like Jim Jones, Rev Sun Moon ... thousands and thousands of adults were manipulated. How could a child resist their own parent? This is not a divorce issue. This is not a custody or a parental rights issue. This is a mental health issue that is affecting our children around the world. These children will grow up not knowing how to be in a relationship and are emotionally stunted. This is what is happening to the children. You can also empathize with either a father or a mother who are experiencing the loss of their child(ren) through Parental Alienation. We are available to have a conversation with you or any of your readers ... If you'd like to learn more about Parental Alienation, or if 'Hurt' wants to contact for support ... Deb Black Co-Host of New England Parental Alienation Support Group https://www.meetup.com/New-England-Parental-Alienation-Support-Meetup/ Respectfully, Caron Warren MA.Ed.

Seems like we're all making lots of assumptions! It's hard to know what the family dynamics are. It could be LW is the toxic person who is responsible for her own estrangement from her children. Or, the real story may be more complicated... I was estranged from my father for more than 5 years as my mother carefully controlled information and manipulated me (and my sibling) into thinking our dad was the villain in their divorce. For years, I ignored calls or replied curtly to emails from my dad.... it saddens me to think of how I shut him out. He didn't want to cause me further pain, so he gave me space. Luckily, my dad was resilient . Eventually, crazy stuff happened, and I realized the truth my dad is flawed like anyone else, but he is not the abuser my narcissistic mother would have me believe. LW, if your ex is the crazy maker, then get therapy, take care of yourself, call on your support system, find other ways to bring meaning into your life.... you'll be in a better place for whatever comes. Therapy will help you figure out how to see toxic patterns, define and set healthy boundaries. If you're the crazy maker, well.. then I still urge you to get therapy and find ways to rebuild and reach out to your family in ways that are respectful.

YoungatHeartToo

Don't let stress over the situation affect your health or your good relationship with the current love of your life. Be proud of whatever you did for your kids. If you were not perfect, they are not perfect in not forgiving or not considering your feelings. They have their own lives now, and you should move on with yours, but hopefully they will mature more in the future. And any spouse who alienates kids from a halfway decent ex is not doing right by the kids or the ex.

Lexgal

Sorry Meredith but your advice is so unbelievably tone deaf. The guy LOVES that he is in charge and sets the narrative. In his mind he won. Do you REALLY think a coffee shop meeting or family therapy is going to happen? He is looooooong gone. LW - even though there is no reason given for the divorce this is a sad letter and I feel bad for you, after everything you did you deserve to be treated much better. Maybe the boys blame you, again, not sure why you divorced. Just keep killing your kids with kindness. Don't get mad, every once in awhile ask if they want to meet and 1 of these days they will. You really need to let them know how much this hurts you in a matter of fact way, I'm sure they have no idea. Maybe send them a random card with a brief note explaining your pain? You have nothing to lose.

THE Guru

Wow. So everyone is blaming the mother, even though the husband booted her, even though she continues to support the kids financially, even though she gives the kids space despite how it hurts her to be isolated from them. And the father, on at least his 3rd marriage and booted his wife while she was dealing with a parent with cancer, is a prince? This certainly is bizarro world! Gee, victim-blaming much?

Tie--Dye--Brain--Fry

I cut my dad out of my life for a lot of the tone that's similar to this letter. No acknowledging your own role in the estrangement, acting like a complete victim, blaming everyone else for your problems. My advice would be to write a letter to your kids (individually - don't treat them interchangeably), saying that you miss them dearly and don't know what you did to drive them away, but that whenever they are ready, you would like to hear their side of things and that you promise to LISTEN and not make it about yourself, that you won't get defensive or lay any guilt on them for it. If you want them back in your life, you need to acknowledge that you have hurt them deeply, and that even if your ex was badmouthing you, if your relationship to your kids was genuinely strong enough, it would have survived that.

audreylyn

This is an inspiring letter. You managed to overcome many difficulties, got yourself on a bike, got to church, met someone new, rebuilt a life for yourself after a lot of emotional trauma. You're a survivor. Parenthood comes with no guarantees about payback. But as your kids mature, they might develop a different perspective. Keep the olive branch out there and focus on what you do have, your new relationship, your home and your dog.

Jim501

I'm disgusted by the tone of the comments I've read here today. I had to stop, so I just hope the later ones were more sympathetic. My advice to the LW is to find a good therapist who can listen to you and help you work out both your feelings and an effective strategy for reaching out to your children. Clearly, writing to an anonymous mob on the internet is not the way to go.

OutOfOrder

I read this as being written by a man. Maybe it’s because I have a friend who is a good man in a very similar situation, having an ex wife who has poisoned their children against him. It’s a horrible thing to do to a child as well as the father. Little by little, he has made inroads just by being there for them. He keeps reaching out. Hopefully, when they’re older and have been away from their mother for a longer period of time, they will do a complete tour-around.

Seenittoo

"... in my experience, tend to side with the parent who has been there for them." I would politely disagree, and say that kids will side with those who "manipulate best". Usually the most toxic wins. The reality is that it may take the kids till they are 40+ and raising their own families to start to get the separation and hindsight they need to rectify the state of affairs, but that, of course, is no given.

MrTrumping

The only thing you can do is to love your kids in whatever way they will let you, which is what you are already doing. If they have any sign of intelligence and if college did anything to teach them how to think independently, at some point, maybe even soon, or maybe when they start their own family, they will start to question what they are being told. At that point, you will have amassed a lot of evidence (texts, calls, letters, paying for college, etc.) over time that you are not exactly what your ex says you are.

sexual-chocolate

HarrisBlackwoodStone

it will take time. that's all. there's nothing more you can do for your children than send them birthday and holiday cards and gifts. when they become adults, assuming you haven't left anything out of this picture you've painted for us, eventually they will seek you out.

red-speck

This letter (including the fact that it's one side of a mutifaceted story) leaves out a lot of detail, but assuming LW's is a reliable synopsis, the kids were hurting like hell through the divorce, too. LW doesn't mention whether they went to counseling or their emotional states throughout. I'm glad she's getting things sorted out.

As for her relationship with the kids, my wife's parents divorced when she was a teen. Took her decades to come to the realization that her parents weren't awful people, just broken ones trying to cope with their lives flying apart. All you can do is keep inviting them into your life and trying, graciously, to remain a part of theirs. Don't hold "I did X for you" lists over their heads; just rebuild a relationship from this day forward. With any luck, you'll come to some measure of healing in due course.

Leftylucy

I agree 100% with you here.

redsoxpatriotsnyfan

The best advice to you is to hire a good lawyer!

Anon

Funny thing is -- in divorce cases where there are custody orders -- attorneys typically accelerate the alienation. We need to make family court therapeutic, not adversarial. I hope you can spread the word!

#Loveletters #Boston

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kartiavelino · 6 years

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Actors recall living in fear of Jerome Robbins — yet dying to work with him

It’s a legend that even now, 20 years after Jerome Robbins’ dying, threatens to outline him: Whereas berating his actors, he stepped farther and farther again on stage till he toppled into the orchestra pit. And nobody stated a phrase to cease him. Some say the present was “Name Me Madam,” “Excessive Button Sneakers” or “Billion Greenback Child.” (An eyewitness tells The Put up it was, in reality, “West Facet Story.”) However the underlying message is similar: The choreographer and director was a terror to work with. Final month, after a “Chicago” actor killed himself following what was reportedly a brutish rehearsal, many recalled Robbins and his penchant for pushing dancers and actors to the breaking level. Nonetheless, it’s exhausting to think about Broadway or the ballet with out him. Which is why Robbins — who was born 100 years in the past and died at 79 on July 29, 1998 — is as revered as he’s reviled. His centennial 12 months is being celebrated throughout the nation and in Germany, France and the Netherlands. On Aug. 9, there might be a tribute aboard the Intrepid in Manhattan, with performances and panels moderated by Robbins biographer Amanda Vaill. In ballets and such musicals as “West Facet Story,” “Peter Pan,” “The King and I” and “Fiddler on the Roof,” Robbins introduced a naturalism to dance and motion that was revolutionary — motive sufficient why those that survived each him and his wrath have a tendency to recall the grasp, not the monster. Jerome Robbins throughout a 1974 rehearsal Getty Photographs Getty Photographs Getty Photographs Getty Photographs 4 View Slideshow “Stephen Sondheim stated that Robbins was the one genius he’s ever recognized,” stated Vaill, who had entry to the director’s diaries and papers whereas writing 2006’s “Someplace: The Life of Jerome Robbins.” And he was, she factors out, self-taught: Unable to afford greater than a 12 months at NYU, younger Jerome Rabinowitz dropped out and ferried between Weehawken, NJ — the place his father urged him to be part of the household corset enterprise — and New York, the place he kick-started his dance profession. Alongside the way in which, he developed what Vaill calls “a form of tunnel imaginative and prescient — as soon as he’d seen what he needed, nothing else was necessary.” Within the identify of artwork, he’d make actors and dancers undergo their paces repeatedly, typically screaming at them and hurling insults. “Jerry not solely attacked you, he attacked your loved ones, your background, the place you lived, the way you lived, who you studied with,” Tony Mordente, a “West Facet Story” forged member, advised biographer Greg Lawrence. Yet Mordente and plenty of different stars say they owe their careers to him. “The acute battle between his admirers and disparagers made my e book an emotional ordeal to write,” Lawrence advised The Put up of his 2001 biography, “Dance with Demons: The Life of Jerome Robbins.” A perfectionist, Robbins was even exhausting on his collaborators, together with “West Facet Story” composer Leonard Bernstein. “My father had to battle with so many points of Jerry’s difficult character,” Bernstein’s daughter, Jamie, advised The Put up. “He was impolite and imperious and harsh and terrible to artists . . . and yet my father managed to set it apart and go on working with Jerry.” Jerome Robbins circa 1950Getty Photographs However others by no means forgave him — if not for his cruelty, than for naming names earlier than the Home Un-American Actions Committee (HUAC) in the 1950s. As his biographers found, Robbins dropped the dime on his colleagues much less from fear of being blacklisted than that of being outed. A bisexual whose best love, many consider, was for a ballerina — Tanaquil LeClerc, the spouse of his idol, George Balanchine — Robbins additionally had affairs with males, Montgomery Clift amongst them. Not solely did he fear his household’s wrath, however homosexuality was then punishable by jail. Like many artists, he’d flirted with communism and the post-World Struggle II concept of Soviet-American friendship. All of the whereas, the FBI was watching him. So was Ed Sullivan. A decade earlier than he launched the Beatles, Sullivan was placing fear into the hearts of leftists by vetting them for his TV present, typically writing damning objects about them in his newspaper column. In 1950, Sullivan pressed Robbins to reveal his actions and that of his fellow Soviet sympathizers, one of them Robbins’ sister. When Robbins refused, Sullivan canceled his look. However three years later, subpoenaed as a “pleasant witness,” Robbins caved. He gave HUAC the names of eight celebration members, seven of whom, Vaill stated, had been already recognized. Robbins later advised “West Facet Story” author Arthur Laurents that he wouldn’t know “for years” whether or not he’d finished the best factor. “Oh, I can let you know now,” Laurents replied. “You had been a s–t.” Zero Mostel overtly disdained Robbins. Blacklisted himself, although not by means of Robbins’ doing, the burly actor noticed his movie profession wither and die. Nonetheless, he knew a genius when he noticed one, and went on to star in 1964’s “Fiddler on the Roof,” which Robbins choreographed and directed. Sheldon Harnick, the present’s lyricist, remembers that first fraught day of rehearsal, and the way he and the forged awaited Robbins’ arrival. When he lastly got here in, Harnick stated, “He and Mostel checked out one another. Then Zero stated, ‘Hello, there, blabbermouth!’ and everybody broke up.” Even so, there was all the time stress between the forged and their director, who by no means left a single second of a present to probability — and did no matter he had to do to make his imaginative and prescient actual. “Perhaps I’ve tried to blot it out from my reminiscence,” Harnick, now 94, advised The Put up, “however Jerry could possibly be merciless, particularly to some of the ladies. If he had a criticism, he would specific it in a very chilly and merciless manner.” Austin Pendleton, who performed the present’s timid Motel the tailor, remembers one lacerating encounter so private, he advised Robbins’ assistant not to let the director discuss to him once more for every week. And Robbins obeyed: “He’d say, ‘Inform Austin to cross left,’ after which, every week to the day, he was supportive once more, and my efficiency had actually pulled collectively.” Jerome Robbins circa 1965Getty Photographs Now a director himself, Pendleton stated, “He was more durable on himself than anybody else.” Had Robbins not been a director, he might need been a puppeteer. Or so he advised Carol Lawrence, who performed Maria in 1957’s “West Facet Story,” when he confirmed her his puppet assortment. It was metaphor for a way he noticed the world. “He needed full management,” she advised The Put up. “You had been below his fingertips.” A agency believer in the strategy faculty of appearing, Robbins inspired off-stage enmity between his actors, typically with violent outcomes. Underneath Robbins’ course, Larry Kert — the Tony to Lawrence’s Maria — received a nightly pummeling. “Hit him more durable!” Robbins urged her as they rehearsed the scene in which Maria assaults the person who killed her brother. Someday, she recalled, Kert walked into her dressing room, his chest bandaged, and so in ache he may barely communicate. “The physician stated you’re loosening my lungs from my rib cage,” he whispered. “However I can’t inform Jerry.” As a substitute, Lawrence advised him. “And with no second’s pause, Jerry stated, ‘So hit him in the top, you received’t damage something there.’” Jerome Robbins throughout a rehearsal in 1965Getty Photographs Even Bernstein, who wrote the music for that present, got here in for a pounding, at the least psychologically, when Robbins crossed out some of his orchestrations. Years later, at Bernstein’s memorial service, Laurents stated his “West Facet Story” collaborator was afraid of solely two issues: “God and Jerry Robbins.” Many years earlier than Martin Charnin wrote and directed “Annie,” he performed a Jet in “West Facet Story.” He was, he advised The Put up proudly, the primary individual to sing “Gee, Officer Krupke, Krup you!” on a Broadway stage. Now 83, he remembers watching Robbins fall into the pit. He stated it occurred throughout a rehearsal in Philadelphia. “We needed to see how far he would go and he ended up going one step too far,” Charnin stated of himself and fellow Jets. Had the bass drum not damaged his fall, Robbins would have been badly damage. Why didn’t anybody cease him? “I actually don’t know,” Charnin stated. “Perhaps there was a collective second of tit for tat . . . I’d like to consider that it was only a mistake, and we had been terrified — we didn’t need him to get damage. “For all of how robust Jerry was, he additionally had one thing inside of him that was actually good,” he continued, “and that goodness manifested itself in the work. He knew what he needed, and what I realized and used in my profession actually got here from a fountain known as Jerome Robbins.” Jerome Robbins in 1988Getty Photographs Chita Rivera, whose multi-Tony-winning profession took off after her function in “West Facet Story,” goes additional. “All I do know is that I used to be in love with Jerry,” she advised The Put up. “I bear in mind feeling euphoric once I noticed him work — it was simply so stunning, and so proper and on the nostril . “He taught us how to be. Once I was operating by means of the door to the window after [the song] ‘A Boy Like That,’ he stated, ‘Don’t dance to the window. May you simply return and stroll to the window?’ “He taught us how to dance as individuals, not as dancers.” It was dancers with whom Robbins selected to spend his final twenty years. After “Fiddler,” he and his “West Facet Story” group tried and failed to get one other exhibit the bottom. Disenchanted with Broadway, Robbins returned to the place he began, making the ballets which might be nonetheless being danced in the present day. “I believe with the ballet dancers, he had a barely gentler edge, although he may nonetheless rip and destroy somebody,” stated Christine Redpath, who teaches the Robbins repertoire at New York Metropolis Ballet. “He had just a few individuals right here and there he’d beat into. I bear in mind one man being utterly devastated, in tears . . . however he survived.” It helped that Robbins beloved canine, his personal and everybody else’s. One of Redpath’s golden retrievers got here in useful throughout the making of at the least one ballet. “When he was choreographing ‘Brandenburg’ in the early ’90s, the rehearsal pianist stated, ‘I’ll offer you cash if you happen to carry Emma into the room!’ ” Redpath advised The Put up. “So I did and he or she’d lie below Jerry’s seat. When he received tense, he’d look down at her and he or she’d have a look at him and he’d smile and the temper would change.” Others observed it, too. As “West Facet Story” dancer Grover Dale advised biographer Greg Lawrence a 12 months after Robbins’ dying, “I typically puzzled what the work would have been like had he been as candy to his dancers as he had been to his canine. “Maybe ‘contentment’ and ‘being a genius’ don’t combine very effectively,” Dale stated. 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