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formereldestdaughter · 1 month

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ok wait i need to hear more of your thoughts on peeta owning a bakery....

This is one of those rare times where I’m pretty sure this anon isn’t someone I know personally bc I’ve subjected anyone who will listen to my rant about the Peeta Bakery Headcanon. Anyway, you’re gonna regret asking this anon bc there are fucking Layers here.

I know this is probably a controversial take based on the number of fics where I’ve seen it, but I simply do not think that Peeta would open a commercial bakery after Mockingjay!! Like on a metatextual level, I don’t think it really fits with the point of the ending of the series. It actually sort of fascinates me that it’s just such a common headcanon because the ending of Mockingjay is exceedingly vague. I think that vagueness invites us, as readers, to imagine a better world post-revolution. A world where Katniss would feel confident that her children would be safe from injustice, where she’d feel confident that her children would never know want the way she did as a child. A just world. A kinder world. Can a capitalist society ever be just? Is a capitalist society where a disabled teenager has no other means to subsist himself (or feels like there’s no other way he can be a contributing member of his community) really the post-revolution world we dream of? Is that really the best we can imagine?

(This got so insanely long I’m adding a read more lmao)

I get that showing a better world is not always the point of post-mockingjay headcanons/fics. Like there are plenty of really great post-mockingjay fics I’ve seen where, yeah, part of the fic is that society like ISN’T all that different or all that much better. I’ve seen that really well done! Hell, I’ve written them myself! It’s easy to imagine how a lot of aspects of society would not get an overhaul, a lot of the same structural inequalities would continue to exist. One headcanon that really stuck with me (I can’t remember which fic it was from) was that Peeta sells basically mail order baked goods to people on the Capitol, sending them iced cakes and pastries by train, because there are still people who were “fans” of theirs during the Games. And idk this doesn’t actually have much to do with my point lol but I liked it because it’s kind of fucked up and like! Yeah! It makes sense! If he needed money that would be a good way to make it! War often makes people rich, often for horrible reasons, and often it’s people who already have capital in the first place.

Anyway, more about the hypothetical bakery because alright. I bring up the fact that “yeah society not being all that different post-revolution and still being an unjust capitalist hellscape” could be a reason why Peeta re-opens a bakery because that’s actually never the types of fics where I see the bakery headcanon. Fics where Peeta opens a bakery are usually trying to make the exact opposite point. Like. Things are getting better, now he can open a bakery! Look at how much better the world is now, plus he’s got a bakery! Peeta is healing, that’s why he can open a bakery now! And I am so, so sorry to inform everyone who’s never had the grave misfortune of owning a family business, but there is truly nothing further from the truth lmao. Like just putting aside the immense amount of emotional baggage that Peeta has about his family, running a small business is an insane amount of work in any context and being a baker especially is physically grueling and involves early hours (and long hours) that aren’t really the best fit with the multiple ways that Peeta is disabled now. (I could go into this more because I have a lot of thoughts. But I will spare you.). I also think it’s seen throughout the books that Peeta is someone who needs time to pursue creative outlets to process his feelings and someone who values leisure and values quality time with his loved ones. And having grown up in his family’s bakery, I think he’d understand the reality that running a bakery wouldn’t leave much space of those pursuits and wouldn’t leave much space for him to have the things that keep him healthy and stable. I think he’d know that the way he is now— after two Games and the war and unspeakable torture at the hands of a dictator—isn’t compatible with the lifestyle necessary for running a commercial bakery.

And tbh with that in mind, I don’t think he’d push himself to re-open a business (one that would be a constant reminder of his dead family and his complicated relationships with them that got no closure) that would require him to sacrifice his physical and emotional well-being. Like I think he might look into the possibility, I think he might even start trying to open a bakery out of a sense of obligation/duty, maybe harboring some idea that this is who he was supposed to be, who he would've been without the Games, or that it’s this last piece of his family that can live on, or that it’s this last connection to his family so he can’t let it die too. But ultimately, I think any attempt to open a bakery wouldn’t get very far. Maybe he'd start wading into the logistical nightmare that is small business ownership and realize it's not for him (because it's probably also true that as much as him and his brothers were involved in the business, there's almost certainly parts they weren't involved with and didn't see, i.e., filing taxes). Or maybe looking into opening a bakery— how triggering it is, the stress of it— causes a downward spiral. Maybe he hates how much he's worrying everyone by unraveling. Maybe having a breakdown from the stress of just trying to open a bakery makes him realize, yeah, maybe in another life he would have ran his family’s bakery but the way he is now just doesn’t work with running a bakery, not without great sacrifices he's not willing to make. I just can’t see a bakery coming to fruition.

I know a lot of fics include Peeta deciding to reopen a bakery as a big step in his healing or include him rebuilding a bakery as part of his healing process but honestly, I think the opposite would be more true: I think Peeta either trying/failing to open a bakery or ultimately deciding not to open a bakery would be hugely healing for him. I think it would be a huge part of him accepting the way he is now as a person, his new limitations but also his strengths. I think it would be a huge part of him accepting the way his life his now and accepting that he likes his life the way it is, that he’s satisfied with his life without needing to own a bakery. I think it would be an important part of him coming to terms with the loss of his family. I think he knows he can never have things back as they were and I don’t think he would try to recreate them, especially because his family’s legacy isn’t a business. I think he’s emotionally intelligent enough and self reflective enough to realize that what mattered to him about the bakery— taking care of others by feeding them, being integrated into his community and being actively involved in it, brightening people’s days with delightful things whether that’s beautiful cakes or hearty food or delicious treats— and the things he learned from his family through the bakery, are things that he can carry on in other meaningful ways.

(Do you regret sending this ask yet, anon? Because if not, you will soon. I’m not done yet. There’s more.)

I wasn’t really sure where to put this next part in what is rapidly becoming an essay because it sort of combines the points about like “what do we imagine a post-mockingjay society to look like” with the practical difficulties of starting this bakery but here’s another thing: do people really think that the Mellarks owned the land the bakery was on?? Like, sure, the merchants are the petit bourgeois of Twelve but I still don’t imagine they really own anything. In a society where houses are assigned to people upon marriage, where property ownership and capital are so closely interconnected with citizenship (as shown by the Plinths who, by having immense capital, are able to leave their District and become citizens of the Capitol) do people really think the Mellarks would be allowed to own the land their bakery is on?? I always imagined it sort of like a tenant farming situation: the Capitol gives them the raw materials for the bakery and in return the bakery give them some absurdly high portion of their profits, or the Capitol sells them a year’s supply of raw materials at a premium on credit and at the end of the year the Mellarks have to use the money they made with those materials to pay it back, except it’s never enough to turn a profit so they always have to buy next year’s materials on credit and the cycle continues.

We (understandably) get a really skewed view of the merchant class through Katniss’s perspective so I can see why people come to the conclusion that his family owned the property and, as the last surviving member, he would’ve inherited it. I’ve seen the inheritance thing in fics a lot or a hand wavey “well Twelve was decimated to no one owns anything anymore so it can be his” or even like an almost sort of reparations type situation where he’s entitled to the land as a surviving refugee of Twelve. But I don’t know. I guess I don’t think it fits with everything else we know about Panem that the Mellarks would’ve owned that land and I think the question of whether the government would’ve let him take ownership of the land post-revolution brings up a lot of issues about the structure of society post-Mockingjay that I find more interesting to explore in other ways, especially when, from an emotional perspective, 1) I find the idea of Peeta not opening a bakery more compelling and 2) I don’t think it really fits his character arc by the end of Mockingjay to reopen a bakery, as I went on about at length above lol.

On the flip side: literally who cares!! Do whatever you want!! Headcanon whatever you want!! I get why people go for the bakery!! It’s fun, it’s wholesome, it’s a built in bakery AU that isn’t even an AU. It doesn’t matter if it’s practical or realistic!! It doesn’t need to be practical or realistic!! It’s fanfic of a dystopian YA series!! My unfortunate affliction is that I grew up in a family that owned a restaurant and that I have multiple degrees in the social sciences so I can’t see the bakery without being like “What about the overheard? What about the start up costs? Who’s spending long nights balancing the books? Is Peeta covering shifts when an employee calls in sick? Is Peeta the sole person working there until the bakery is open long enough (often a year or more) to start turning a profit? How does that sleep schedule work with his nightmares? How does that work with Katniss’s nightmares? What happens when he has an episode and suddenly needs to take the day off before he has any employees? Does the bakery just remain closed for the day? Can the profit margins withstand regular unexpected closures? Can the supplies withstand regular unexpected closures?” And if the answer is “Elliott none of those things matter he’s not doing the bakery because he needs the money but because he wants to”, then my question is why does he want to? Does he not get the same sort of satisfaction out of feeding his loved ones? Doesn’t Peeta seem like someone who would rather give away baked goods than sell them?? Doesn’t Peeta seem like someone who would prefer to make cakes for people’s special occasions upon and then when they insist on paying him for it, he only lets them “pay for the ingredients” which actually cost significantly more than he says they did??

So yeah my point is that it’s a matter of personal taste! It doesn’t fit the way I see the series but that doesn’t mean it’s like wrong, I’m not an authority on Peeta lmao.

It’s also a matter of personal taste in the sense that I find the themes that most resonate with me at the end of Mockingjay (and the end of Peeta’s arc specifically) more interesting to explore in other ways. Grief, living with loss, relearning yourself, finding hope, figuring out your place in a dramatically different world when you don’t even know who you are anymore, healing, building a new life after such complete and total destruction of your old life— those are all things I find compelling about the end of Mockingjay but for me the bakery isn’t the most compelling way to explore them.

Not to say I find the concept of the bakery totally uninteresting. I have this fic about Johanna that I’ll probably never finish where the point sort of is that, yeah, her life really isn’t all that much better after the war. It’s been years at this point and she’s still miserable and she doesn’t know how to be a person but by the end she’s trying to figure it out. And towards the end, Peeta tells her that he’s spent years sort of passively, half-heartedly trying to figure out how to inherit the land his family’s bakery was on, only to find out it was never theirs in the first place. They’d been renting it the whole time and he’d never even known as a kid. So he sort of passively, half-heartedly went on another wild goose chase to find the owner and now, finally, after years of writing to various government agencies and being sent in circles and things being barely functional, he’s managed to track down the owner. Now it’s owned by the daughter of the man who owned it when he was a kid because the original owner (who was likely up to some sketchy war crime shit) died during the war and she inherited it (the irony…). He got in contact with her and asked how much it would take for her to sell it and she told him she’s not interested in selling but in light of the situation, in light of the fact that he’d have to build a new building in order to operate a bakery, that she’d cut him a deal— she’d only require 50% of the bakery’s profits as rent instead of the 80% his family used to pay. And of course Johanna is outraged, that’s not right, the owner shouldn’t be allowed to do that, they should do something about it, they should fight back. And Peeta is like. Not interested. He was actually sort of relieved that opening wasn’t very feasible. Getting the answer was a lightbulb moment where he saw that over the years of trying to look into this, he’s built a life that he likes— one where he’s stable, where his loved ones are stable, where he’s cared for and can care for others— and he doesn’t really want to change it drastically by opening a bakery anyway. He just needed an answer, one way or another, before he could get some closure and move on. (And the point of the conversation is Johanna is having her own lightbulb moment that it’s okay to move on, it’s okay to change, it’s not a betrayal of the people and things she’s lost but that’s not my point here!!).

But anyway. That’s obviously not about running the bakery— it’s about the choice to not run one.

Anyway!! Anyway… are you satisfied anon? Is this what you wanted?

Lastly, here is my most important qualm with the bakery headcanon: must Peeta be gainfully employed? Is it not enough for him to be Katniss’s boytoy? Can’t he just paint and garden and bake and hang out with his girlfriend all day? Is that really too much to ask?

#peeta mellark #thg #the hunger games #the hunger games meta #anyway wow this got so long and I literally read it through one (1) time so uhhh sorry if this makes no sense!!#as I was doing my one read through and realized that one of my other thoughts on this is that yeah I can much more easily see the #headcanon that peeta like sells baked goods (probably at cost with no profit) out of his kitchen because that’s much more flexible #and I think that would work a lot better with what like I guess I’d call his psychiatric disability post mockingjay #and how he’d certainly want to take care of Katniss too #like that sort of flexibility makes a lot more sense for him and it’s like. if he doesn’t bake for a few days or however long then it’s fin #it’s not a formal brick and mortar business #it’s just something he’s doing because it’s a way to be involved with people and a way to do something he’s passionate about #without there being waste and while covering some of the costs #and he doesn’t have to like keep books or do payroll or any of the things I can’t see him being very passionate about #as far as like bakery management goes Lmao he can just bake!!#but then I started getting into this whole thing about how that quote-unquote ‘running a business’ like that (informally from your house)#is actually a really common practice for people living in poverty so probably something that Katniss and peeta would’ve been familiar wirh #anyway and then this whole rant about how the emphasis on the brick and mortar bakery often goes hand in hand with #this widespread fandom thing of having a fundamental misunderstanding of how rural poverty works and what it looks like #but then I was too deep into it and said you know what? never mind! and deleted it lmao

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icewindandboringhorror · 1 year

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Just curious what the average level of personal investment in these sorts of things is. Like, how much do people usually get into silly stuff like this their friends ask of them? etc. etc. Which I know, only surveying a small sample on a very specific website means I'm not getting an exact average idea lol, but.. curious nonetheless .. Maybe reblog for bigger sample size but also this is not very serious at all/not worth a call to action gbhjbhjb

#which I know this could be context dependent like.. maybe you'd normally dress up but on a week that #you feel sick you wouldn't or etc. etc. - but I mean.. GENERALLY. in the most general average scenario #where you have the average amount of health and free time that you always do. etc. just based on your personality #and level of investment in these things - what on AVERAGE are you most inclined to do #also of course assume they communicate with you ahead of time and are not like planning a part last minute #like 'throw together costume in 5 hours and show up tonight randomly' or etc. I would hope that if we're going with the #AVERAGE of things - most people's friends have better communication skills than springing entire parties #on people last minute lol #assume you have like.. a few days-a week or so to prepare. however ealrly people usually start talking about #birthdays. In my experience it's usually one or two weeks ahead of time. Like 'oh next weekend' or 'oh two weeks from now' etc.#ANYWAY.. feeling a little Sick again of course but still trying to get some photos or something posted #AGAIN i promise I am not going to exlcusively post polls and ntohing else forever hgkjgnekj #I just really really love the ability to post polls and have always my whole life been obsessed with surveying people #I used to think I wanted to do that as a career somehow like.. be one of the people that does psychological interviews #or produce interview asessments for a company or etc. etc. I am always the one friend in the group thats giving out custom made #surveys or asking for other simialr stuff (did you ever take an mbti quiz? how about enneagra #m?? oh yeah I know they're not really scientifically valid or antyhing but like... DID you take them?? huh?? did you??please?? ghjj)#I simply cannot resist.. posting a little poll every once in a while.. as a treat #whilst I still fall behind on like actual content and costumes and stuff gbjhbjh #New poll adventure should be not as much of a wait as the last one was though since I already have the writing #for it really. I just have to do the ms paint sketch. hopefully no unexpected other health issues will get in the way #*** *** ***#< (anytime I do these three star patterns it is an ocd compulsion not me bleeping out words or something just ignore it lol)#(it means something secret in my evil brain just pretend you do not see it. significant only to me)#BUT YEAH.. ... poll... what type of costume party atendee are you?#:0c

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paellegere · 3 months

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"their relationship is romantic" "their relationship is familial" "their relationship is platonic" you're thinking too narrow. their relationship goes beyond labels. the family is inherently queer. their platonic love is romantic. the erotic is familial. each one is the other and the other is them

#.txt #i've gotten to the point of relationship anarchy where i no longer understand the obsession with labeling relationships #there's a post floating around like 'it doesn't matter if you view them as romantic or platonic the point is that they love each other'#and i get the message. however may i propose that distinctions such as that don't even have to matter. consider #bold claim probably. but whatever i didn't have the choice to think about love in a normative way and as a consequence i have thoughts #of course i am thinking about wincest but it applies everywhere. jopzier even #jopson views crozier as a surrogate parent but in an inherently queer way. does that mean he want to fuck his mom? probably not #but the fixation and need for redemption turns the traditionally familial relationship into something far more #do you understand #once you leave the normative behind labels become useless #do sam and dean love each other romantically or platonically or familially? consider: it doesn't matter. there are no words to describe it #their love is queer in the sense that it extends beyond normativity. society holds no sway over them. they are ungovernable #i find it ultimately unhelpful to discuss fiction in normative terms when the characters themselves exist outside of normative society #shows like supernatural and the terror are perfect examples. sam and dean were never normal and franklin crew left normal behind #the arctic doesn't care if you fuck your mom. the impala doesn't care if you kiss your brother #this isn't really about anything i just saw that post the other day and i was like. why doesn't this Hit for me. well this is why #however it IS helpful to discuss fiction set within normative society in relation to normativity. it's relevant!#most stories are not however set within the bounds of normativity. that's kinda the whole point of a lot of fiction #baby i explore relationship anarchy in ways that you couldn't even imagine #<-tldr #i have a tendency to write essays in the notes every time i post something. sorry about that. it feels safer here and i am skittish

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braisedhoney · 7 months

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some tragic love stories be like: if i could bottle the galaxy, i would pour it into a cup so it would be easier for you to drink. do you want them? do you want the stars? or do they suit you better as adornments for your eyes than glitter on your lips?

but they don’t want the stars. they don’t want the galaxy. but how can they not? is that not enough? (it’s too much, that’s the problem. it’s too much.)

#ney's idle chatter (random textposts)#me trying and failing to capture why hadestown has embodied Love in a way i don’t think i’m really capable of comprehending fr #but also this can be about whatever blorbo you want #when i think about that one line in chant #when hades says ‘brighter than the light of day’#‘look. look at what i can make for you—see?’#meanwhile the last thing persephone wants is to be reminded of this hollow echo of what their love is in her memories #when i think about that scene when eurydice tells orpheus they need to get food #but he’s working on his song and she makes the choice to trust him and go #to work harder and longer and search for things to feed them and trust he’ll bring spring back #THE WAY PERSEPHONE TRIES TO KISS HADES GOODBYE AT THE START WHEN SHE COMES BACK FOR SUMMER #AND HOW IT PARALLELS EURYDICE KISSING ORPHEUS GOODBYE WHEN SHE GOES TO LOOK FOR FOOD #and hades pulls away. because she’s leaving him and he’s terrified. he’s terrified and turns it into anger because otherwise he’s helpless.#and orpheus doesn’t respond when eurydice leaves because he’s working—he’s working and he’s going to give her what he promised.#but she needs his help. she needs his help now—she needs his support and he isn’t there.#thinking about the moment she takes the ticket from hades and #it almost implies she starves. that she dies. that she starves to death trying to find food for them both #i promise you however unhinged i seem about this musical i am being purposefully restrained so i don’t spam you all too much orz #holy SHIT these tags are LONG #even for me this is ridiculous there’s a whole other post down here #high five to you for reading it ig damn #hadestown

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666writingcafe · 3 months

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The Home Theater

Satan

"I don't remember the House of Lamentation having one of these," MC notes as they take in their surroundings. "Whose idea was it to put one here?"

"It was mine," I answer. "Barbatos helped me set everything up. All the equipment, the acoustics...it's all top-notch."

"By human world standards, or Devildom ones?" I've forgotten how observant they are. MC seems to enjoy taking in all sorts of information, even if it seems insignificant to other people. That's one of the things I like about them.

"According to the employee at DevTech--I mean, Best Buy--we have the top-of-the-line equipment, and the quality is comparable to some of ours." I hate that I keep swapping human world names with Devildom ones. I personally feel like I'm better than that.

"Have you guys used it yet?"

"Funny that you mention that, because we just started a zombie movie marathon last weekend."

"Was that your idea as well?" I nod my head.

"The idea of zombies has interested me for a while now. While there are diseases and curses that can induce a zombie-like state in demons, it's usually a temporary problem that can be solved with medicine. That doesn't seem to be the case with humans."

"Are you solely basing that on our movies?"

"Of course not. I've also read books."

"Fiction or non-fiction?" Oh, I'm about to blow their mind.

"Both, actually."

While the human world seems to focus on the fantastical elements of zombies, the Devildom has meticulously recorded all zombie outbreaks that have occurred throughout the centuries. You see, sometimes a human zombie accidentally stumbles in the Devildom, and we have to deal with that situation properly in order to prevent chaos.

While we've certainly dealt with the stereotypical zombies--the ones that are slow-moving, crave brains, and are more or less dead--those aren't the only ones that we've come across. Some are capable of sprinting, others aren't too keen on brains, and there's even those that appear perfectly fine on the outside but have some kind of parasite in their brain that's making them carry out orders with no thought whatsoever.

Although, sometimes the parasite doesn't have a physical form and is instead created as a result of rather intense brainwashing.

"I see," MC states once I've completed my mini lecture. "Somehow, that's never come up in any of my classes."

"That's because you've only taken general knowledge ones. RAD offers majors, and with those comes specific classes for particular areas of study. Although, in order to declare a major, you have to prove that you have a solid understanding of the fundamentals first, since you might get pulled to teach a class or two."

"Has that ever happened to you guys?"

"Lucifer and I are the only ones out of our bunch that have declared a major. Belphie's been offered, but he doesn't want to deal with the responsibility of teaching, so he just takes whatever interests him. The others simply haven't proven themselves yet. Levi struggles with attendance, and Beel has difficulty concentrating. As for Mammon and Asmo, I think they're content with where they're at right now, so they're not going to push themselves too hard."

"What do you and Lucifer major in?"

"He does potions and curses. I focus on history and literature. Somehow, despite my sin, I tend to be a more patient teacher than him. At least, that's what I've heard from other students."

"That's really interesting." MC appears deep in thought. "Do you think I could major in something?"

Honestly, I don't know how to answer that question, mainly because we've never had beings outside the Devildom attend RAD before Diavolo implemented the exchange program. It wouldn't surprise me if he did allow MC and the others to declare a major eventually, but I don't know how long that would take. Would MC be alive by then? Or be in a good physical and mental state to take in additional knowledge, let alone teach an entire classroom? Personally, I think they have the best chance out of the initial exchange students of eventually declaring a major, but that isn't for me to determine.

"That would be something to ask Diavolo. I don't think I'm qualified to answer that question." MC nods their head.

"So, changing the subject...wanna watch a movie together?"

"Like, right now?"

"Yeah!" I sigh.

"As much as I would like to, I doubt the others would be happy if I kept you all to myself before they've even had the chance to say hi to you. I will have to take your offer some other time."

"Sounds good. I'll try to find a good movie for us to watch together in the meantime."

"You bring the movie, and I'll whip up something nice for us to eat." MC snorts in amusement. "Do you not think I'm capable of cooking, MC?"

"It's not that at all. Just reacting to an idea I had, that's all."

"What kind of thought?" Interesting. My question has made them tense up all of a sudden. Usually they only get that way if someone catches them doing something that they think they're not supposed to do. Like fiddling with strange objects.

Or having dirty thoughts.

I keep coming across the phrase "Netflix and chill" in the media I've been consuming, and it appears to be referring to hooking up with someone as a movie's playing in the background. Is MC wanting to do that with me?

Are they afraid I'd find the idea silly? Because I don't. I mean, if it was something that I was invested in, then I'd want to pay attention to whatever was playing, but I'm more than capable of choosing something that I can tune out as I focus on something else.

Especially if that something else happens to be MC.

I lean in closer to them to whisper,

"You know, I went ahead and assembled a collection of movies I thought you'd like." I plant a kiss right below MC's ear, making them shiver slightly. "I really enjoyed picking them out, actually." I begin moving down their neck. "It was fun thinking about what might appeal to you. There are so many genres that are worth exploring."

#obey me shall we date #obey me mc #obey me satan #welcome to me randomly creating lore that wasn't there before #was not what i intended to do at all #in fact #i thought of it on the spot as i was writing this #like some other things that i've posted #in my head it makes some degree of sense #i mean #how do you keep individuals like lucifer and satan interested in going to school #both of them are extremely intelligent after all #basic classes just wouldn't satisfy them #also #i know the whole 'satan assembles a movie collection for mc' is canonically innocent #however #i felt like adding a bit of spice to it

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dreamaze · 1 year

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MINHYUK in Reason Era

#mx7net #monstaxedits #kpopccc #minhyuk #monsta x #tuseral #usermowah #wabisarah #userkyutie #hijaehyukkies #wings.gifs #wings.original #since i had this idea months ago this was meant to be a celebration & not a farewell-for-now post but life had other plans #however. (forcibly sweeps Feelings under the rug) i am maintaining that this is still a celebration !!#of all the hats minhyuk wears in mx & the roles he commits to with every fiber of his being #no matter who your bias is. if you love mx i don't know how you can not love minhyuk even just a little #because of how much love passion & dedication he himself has for EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of mx as a group & their work #i adore their behind-the-scenes content especially for their album & promotion preparations #& it is apparent how much attention & care he has for the whole picture & the little details.#he has an opinion on Everything & he is very nearly Always right #he prepares so hard for their recordings. he is dissatisfied when it's not perfect.#he is rightfully proud when all the hard work on expressiveness & diction show.#never mind the way he sings like he could crawl right into the microphone & then into your heart.#he is not a leader by choice but by necessity & he leads alongside them.#no matter how much good-natured teasing or chaotic shenanigans run through their content #it could never be more obvious how much he loves & supports them #lee minhyuk you will be dearly missed & just as dearly loved in your absence.#wishing you happiness & health & little breaks now & then to practice your art #it's alright because you're going to make it back to us 🫶

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obsob · 2 years

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im like tamftgebka (thinking about maia from ‘the goblin emperor’ by katherine addison)

#mine #original #the goblin emperor #maia i would die for u i would kill for u #u would not BELIEVE this problems this drawing gave me. outstanding #i actually did a whole other drawing. maia and th little people are taken from that drawing i had to frankenstein them #the like. idea is the same kinda but the other comp was bad. like if i draw and i dont have a colour palette in mind i just draw for that #comp to work in black and white. and then if i try to put colour on top it like always looks awful. why do i do that.#anyway. here he is. im pretty happy w it th colours arent exactly what i wanted but thats fine svbkdbgvd #my mum is away this week im playing house and having a good time #i got!!!! more isopods!!! ik i said i would post pics n of my magic potions and didnt but thats bc theyre very small and shy rn skjlf bless #i got more armadillium vulgare but a gem mix theyre so pretty!!! n one of them is like absolutely huge. enormous.#however th seller was very stupid th packaging for their postage was rlly bad n th ventilation holes were too big n they didnt pack th #tupperware tight enough so loads of babies fell out n died :(((((((((( i sent her a message like. maybe dont do this n she was like oh sorry #n was like this has never happened before but im like. ur stupid. why did u use such a big box all u had 2 do was put more moss in.#they were rlly dry as well theyve spent all day hanging out in th damp moss. poor babies. theyre absolutely destroying some cuttlefish rn #so i think theyre fine <3

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lucalicatteart · 11 months

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Finally finished my weird hanging painting thing (originally a secondhand partially-done 'paint by numbers' kit that I found at a thrift store and kept to repurpose lol)! Imagery somewhat based in my own worldbuilding projects, and text written in my constructed language for one of my fantasy species, but also vaguely inspired by old tapestries and illuminated manuscripts and etc. I've never been great at neat clean patterning or text, but it looks cool from afar, and I always enjoy making "props" or things that are somewhat like real objects that might could exist in my world. :0

(additional pictures/info under the readmore)

Here's what it was originally! I probably didn't have to actually have a river running down the middle because it further makes the composition of the whole thing weird (various connected yet separate locations and things happening, instead of one unified event being portrayed), but I wasn't sure if I'd be able to fully cover up the already existing paint that was there.. and I can also kind of justify it by going with a more "all the imagery is just symbolic so it doesn't have to make exact sense" approach lol.. How is one half of the grass green and the other is suddenly snowy? shhhh.. it's not literal.. shhh...

Made a vague sketch, then painted over it, and then added more distinct lines in black pen. Center image first and border second.

The very last thing was the text, which actually took forever to translate because my conlang is still only like.. partially done, and some of the grammar is not worked out exactly how I would like it to be, so a few sentences I had to think about for a long time before just going "eh, this is probably not how I would do it if I considered it more, but I'll go with it for now" lol . I also am not entirely satisfied with all of the characters for the writing system, but again, it's good enough for a quick project, it doesn't have to be 100% accurate and perfect because it's a fake language that nobody knows anyway lol.

I thought about breaking down the text and translation here like I have for some of the tidbits of Avirrekava (the language) in things I've posted in the past, but I think it would take too long and is not interesting to anyone but me ghghj, so for the sake of getting the post out quickly, I shall not spend an hour typing All That lol.

The general jist of the writing though is that it's just about the Avirre'thel being cast out from the other elves, after abandoning their magic for immortality as a means to truly attain perfection (an important concept in elven culture), the usual, blah blah blah, but how it's Actually A Good Thing, because the gods are wrong and immortality is Cool actually and they like the shitty frozen lands they were sent to, so it's fine that everyone else is being a Hater about it lol

Lastly, here's a few photos outside in the sun to TRY and show the gold detailing actually shimmering or showing up! It really doesn't come through in photos, but there's plenty of little golden spots to highlight light or Importance.

Mostly the fire, the pink sparkle that represents magic, the red drop that represents blood, the light behind Inaashi's hands and head (common symbol for the elven religion/one of their main gods, shout out to anyone who read the ancient elven religion post and recognized that lol), the sun, and the symbol for the Avirre'thel/country of Navyete at the very top. I did a few other gold bits, but they're not highlighted because they're Significant, more just that it looked more symmetrical to have some gold on the border too lol.

Other things of note: The animals are not actually significant to Avirre'thel culture really, I just wanted to put a cat and a bird because I like them lol. (I also wanted to have a few funny looking creatures, as I was slightly trying to go with the 'in some old medieval painting the anatomy and perspective is very weird' vibe, though I think some of the other parts of it look too Normal to pull it off entirely). Same with the four leaf clover, which means nothing in their culture - but these are the only areas where stuff was just added self-indulgently .

Bligabata (giant cabbage that grows along rivers in Navyete) making an appearance! The architecture of the building IS based on actual concepts for ancient elven/older Avirre'thel architecture and metalwork. The Avirre'thel who's turning away from Inaashi/elves/magic and collecting blood, is doing so in a Special Bowl, as is part of their culture (collecting it in the hands, or just in a normal vessel would be disrespectful, they have Specific Bowls which is the only thing blood can be kept in, etc.).

The figure that represents Jhevona (and thus, a closer connection to magic, celestial imagery, etc.) is in weird ugly teal, which is not necessarily a color or design associated with them, as I don't have much common culture (like clothing) worked out for Northern Jhevona (who the avirre'thel would have come into contact with) yet, BUT everyone else is in more Typical colors (a northern elf in green, Inaashi in lavender + white + blue, an Avirre'thel in darker purples and reds).

Some things, like the four figures in the corners, and the two people + fish in the stream, do not currently have a meaning, but in-world they would.. Like, I could make up lore for how they're culturally significant and it would be true because I am god of the world, but I don't have anything currently. But just know.. they DO mean something, I just haven't decided it yet, maybe kind of fill in as I go, come up with a meaning later lol. Probably along the lines of an old myth from the ancient elven religion, a story, etc.

I don't know, probably other stuff, but that's my Trying To Keep It Short rambling for now lol. I'm just glad I finally finished this! For how vaguely sloppy it is up close (everything being completely freehanded, only used rulers once when doing the initial sketch and lining where the border should be + my hands are shaky + the canvas is bumpy + my handwriting is scratchy and terrible + etc. etc.) it still took a REALLY long time, even when not trying to make it all perfect. Especially if including the text translation + writing, which took like 3+ hours itself.

Maybe all the asymmetry/lack of things being centered is NOT because I was too lazy to measure anything, but is actually because in-universe, it's a practice illustration made by some young apprentice who has to work on little canvases for years before he can be trusted will a full sized mural or tapestry. It's his first week on the job! of course he's uncoordinated! don't laugh at him!!! lol

#worldbuilding #elves #I AM WORKING ON A NEW PAVENTURE POST also !!!! I know I keep being like 'oh I'm going to get back to that! I'll stick to it this time!!'#and then another whole month goes by without me posting a new poll adventure - however - this time I DID fully intend to so #*do another one soon but my beloved beautiful perfect cat unfortunately passed away AND there was a heat #wave ANd I felt sick for a while for unrelated reasons so I just genuinely was not focused on posting online at all #I am trying to get back to it though along with other things hopefully so.#ANYWAY #avirre'thel #irithoas #maybe???? not super relevant to elves but I'll keep it intheir tag anyway also. Just since their lore is so closely tied with avirre'thel s #stuff and they're mentioned in the post. Or the gods are. Inaashi is.#OIGUGUGUGUHH I should have done a tapestry with the FCJhjkING triplets!!!!! Sehalanora Semoniyare and the other one whatever the hell #his name is. ... sehalanora my beloved .. (I'm referencing the ancient elven gods - for those who dont know)#It's funny that I rarely watch tv shows and when I do I rarely if EVER care about characters at all in any capacity #with maybe like a handful of even then extremely minor exceptions so I cannot relate to the concept of like 'having a blorbo' or whatever #but then for my extremely niche worldbuilding content #.. it's like OMG MY FAVORITE character!!! my favorite obscure god from a religion #that I entirely made up myself for a cultural group that I also made up that literally only I and maybe like two other #people who are able to sit through my novel long dry and wordy worldbuilding posts care about!! you all know them DUH!!#even WITHIN modern elven culture in the world at the moment in current day most people do not give a shit about them hghj #BUT .. I should have made a painting of the siblings actually!!! I stand by that!!#I mean I like Inaashi and Nisateyu and everything too. Actually all of them are fine except for Ea'ivuyera I guess. whoever the #like War and Order bootlicker god is basically. and the Evil dumbass one. but all the others are fine. I'm suprised I'm even able to rememb #that many ancient elven goofily long names ghgh.. But I could have maybe made it about the elven gods #The thing is just that.. i Don't have ancient elvish worked out as a language and I knew I wanted to put text on it #so it kind of HAD to be something written/drawn by the Avirre'thel #Knwoledge of the ancient elven gods is still a thing in their culture. But usually more as a joke or just a common fairytale knowledge #sort of thing. not really something to make a painting of. Inaashi is here less because of Inaashi The God being genuinely significant and #and more just she's there to Symbolize the elven religion as a whole. just like all the other figures are mere symbols of things. etc.

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always-a-joyful-note · 1 month

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Messes me up that the closest we get to legitimate criticism of the idol business is the stuff that probably happened with Zero, Kujo, and Haruki as well as Takanashi, Yaotome, and Musubi. This isn't to say our current generation of i7 doesn't give us entertainment industry criticism (it obviously does), but I mean to say that, personally, the conversation between Torao and Ryu about Ryu's image was a horror story to me personally. Like, I can extrapolate the sincerity and heartwarmingness of surviving a terrible world because you have loved ones who see you for who you are AND be horrified by his acceptance of being sexualised by the media because he's an idol, right?

#i do not Enjoy giving critique to medias i enjoy #well i do but i dont post it because i have other areas where i discuss criticism and current events #make this blog escapist at its best or something #HOWEVER....i7 has unleashed the obsession in me in a way that me more confident on tumblr...#...is going feral with #idolish7 #fandom spamdom #note's notes #to clarify i also think that the whole zero revolutionised the industry means that things are Better than irl #but i also do find such things horrifying #something about tenn as an allegory for what happens if you sell yourself to the fans #just horrifying stuff right there #makes me realise that if this were a female idol media...they could keep things exactly like so #but somehow the tone would be slightly darker given what irl female idols/women in gen seem to experience #....not idol media extrapolating the discourse out of me #im so sorry....and yet i post.

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hollowboobtheory · 6 months

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we need a social media slang for "i'm in a volatile emotional state right now that has nothing to do with you which is almost certainly causing me to feel disproportionate anger to your comment. that said i do think you're being condescending right now and i kinda wanna tell you to go fuck yourself"

#bitch why do you think i made my own post on a whole ass other website #because i didn't feel ike well actuallying on someone you if you think i'm too stupid to live just say that #don't give yourself carpal tunnel just to treat me like a preschooler #no fucking shit fascists aren't a systemically oppressed class primarily because they're not an objectively definable class #however it is a property that you can fairly easily assign to someone as republicans constantly do to blm and trans rights activists #so yeah in that sense there is actually a real and tangible threat to innocent people on that basis!#beck rambles #i need to go to sleep i'm being a bitch

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fitpacs · 20 days

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#not maintagging #my last reblog was like a minute before q went live #i feel sick like this whole situation is fucking awful #nobody is benefitting from anything anymore it’s so sad #i’m going to get some sleep anyway but just wanted to say i likely won’t be reblogging any posts about the stream #but i watched it so please don’t take me not reblogging as ignorance #anyway it’s been a fucking long day so i’m off for the night #look after yourself and others especially after all that’s happened lately #also i’ll be fine but remember you’re allowed to feel however you feel rn it’s valid #i appreciate you all endlessly - goodnight x

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asitrita · 8 months

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I just spent half a day arguing with someone who claims aph Spain is practically Arab because of Al Andaluz and I can't with people

That person didn't know any basic history. If Spain is Arab because of Al Andalus, India must be an exact copy of Britain and the quintessential Anglo Saxon society. And at least they do speak English, lol.

That person probably fed on all the Orientalist propaganda and ridiculous stereotypes about Spain. But the influence Arab culture had in Spain is minimal and superficial. Sure, there's some Arab influence, but it is pretty superficial and non transcendental to Spanish culture, society, or identity. Its biggest contribution to Spain was it acting as its adversary, hence reinforcing the Roman and Christian identity of Spain's population. They should just ask themselves what language do Spaniards speak and what is the predominant religion in Spain.

Also, just ask the person if they think Arabs are responsible for mass genocide in Spain and killed all native inhabitants so everyone in Spain is Arab now.

Tbh, I'm sure they don't even distinguish between Arab and North African/Berber culture, nor are aware of the process of Reconquista, let alone know the difference between Emirate and Caliphate, or the existence of the Taifa kingdoms.

Anyone who thinks Spain is an Arab country, or even somewhat Arab, because of Al Andalus, is either an ignorant/delusional fool, or a troll, or maybe both.

As for aph Spain, I would think nation personifications represent the people living in those regions. Since people living in Spain today are not Arab, not even remotely so, and are descendants of the Northern Christian people who repopulated the south + buckets of Christian people who lived in the south under Muslim rule but who never converted and were later assimilated again within a Christian, Greco-Roman, and Medieval European context and culture, I see absolute no reason to make aph Spain Arab, nor anything remotely similar. That would make as much sense as creating an OC of the Mexica (Aztec) empire and making him/her Spanish, or making India a Saxon warrior, or Nigeria a Viking sailor (actually, maybe even less sense, if that's even possible).

#and don't fight me on this #aph spain #antonio fernandez carriedo #tbh #i got the feeling some people do it out of ignorance #and I may have been too rough in this post #and their assumptions are nto coming from a bad place at all #but it is annoying #think whatever you want #but it does get irritating at times #more so when you are talking to them and they insist over and over on the topic #again #there IS sone Arab influence in Spanish culture #just like today there's a whole ton of American (USA) influence in pop culture all over the world #but this is superficial and non-trancendental in terms of identity society or overall culture of a nation #if Spain is practically Arab because of the little influence Al-Ándalus had in Spanish culture #then we may very well say Spain is France's clone for there's no other country that has influenced Spain as much as France has #italy coming a close second #however saying aph Spain or Spain is practically French or Italian because if their influence in our culture and politics would be nuts #history #kind of

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wonder-worker · 7 months

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Queen Margaret (of Anjou) had written to the Common Council in November when the news of the Duke of York's coup was proclaimed. The letter from the queen was published in modernised English by M.A.E. Wood in 1846, and she dated it to February 1461 because of its opening sentence: ‘And whereas the late Duke of N [York]...." However the rest of the letter, and that of the prince, is in the present tense and clearly indicates that the Duke of York is still alive. The reference to the ‘late duke’ is not to his demise but to the attainder of 1459 when he was stripped of his titles as well as of his lands. If the queen’s letter dates to November 1460, and not February 1461, it make perfect sense. Margaret declared the Duke of York had ‘upon an untrue pretense, feigned a title to my lord’s crown’ and in so doing had broken his oath of fealty. She thanked the Londoners for their loyalty in rejecting his claim. She knew of the rumours, that we and my lords sayd sone and owrs shuld newly drawe toward yow with an vnsome [uncounted] powere of strangars, disposed to robbe and to dispoyle yow of yowr goods and havours, we will that ye knowe for certeyne that . . . . [y]e, nor none of yow, shalbe robbed, dispoyled nor wronged by any parson that at that tyme we or owr sayd sone shalbe accompanied with She entrusted the king's person to the care of the citizens ‘so that thrwghe malice of his sayde enemye he be no more trowbled vexed ne jeoparded.’ In other words the queen was well informed in November 1460 of the propaganda in London concerning the threat posed by a Lancastrian military challenge to the illegal Yorkist proceedings. Margaret assured the Common Council that no harm would come to the citizenry or to their property. Because the letter was initially misdated, it has been assumed that the queen wrote it after she realised the harm her marauding troops were doing to her cause, and to lull London into a false sense of security. This is not the case, and it is a typical example of historians accepting without question Margaret’s character as depicted in Yorkist propaganda. Margaret’s letter was a true statement of her intentions but it made no impact at the time and has made none since. How many people heard of it? The Yorkist council under the Earl of Warwick, in collusion with the Common Council of the city, was in an ideal position to suppress any wide dissemination of the letter, or of its content.

... When Margaret joined the Lancastrian lords it is unlikely that she had Scottish troops with her. It is possible that Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke, sent men from Wales but there was no compelling reason why he should, he needed all the forces at his disposal to face Edward Earl of March, now Duke of York following his father’s death at Wakefield, who, in fact, defeated Pembroke at Mortimer’s Cross on 2 February just as the Lancastrian army was marching south. The oft repeated statement that the Lancastrian army was composed of a motley array of Scots, Welsh, other foreigners (French by implication, for it had not been forgotten that René of Anjou, Queen Margaret’s father, had served with the French forces in Nomandy when the English were expelled from the duchy, nor that King Charles VII was her uncle) as well as northern men is based on a single chronicle, the Brief Notes written mainly in Latin in the monastery of Ely, and ending in 1470. It is a compilation of gossip and rumour, some of it wildly inaccurate, but including information not found in any other contemporary source, which accounts for the credence accorded to it. The Dukes of Somerset and Exeter and the Earl of Devon brought men from the south and west. The Earl of Northumberland was not solely reliant on his northern estates; as Lord Poynings he had extensive holdings in the south. The northerners were tenants and retainers of Northumberland, Clifford, Dacre, the Westmorland Nevilles, and Fitzhugh, and accustomed to the discipline of border defence. The continuator of Gregory’s Chronicle, probably our best witness, is emphatic that the second battle of St Albans was won by the ‘howseholde men and feyd men.” Camp followers and auxiliaries of undesirables there undoubtedly were, as there are on the fringes of any army, but the motley rabble the queen is supposed to have loosed on peaceful England owes more to the imagination of Yorkist propagandists than to the actual composition of the Lancastrian army.

... Two differing accounts of the Lancastrian march on London are generally accepted. One is that a large army, moving down the Great North Road, was made up of such disparate and unruly elements that the queen and her commanders were powerless to control it.” Alternatively, Queen Margaret did not wish to curb her army, but encouraged it to ravage all lands south of the Trent, either from sheet spite or because it was the only way she could pay her troops.” Many epithets have been applied to the queen, few of them complimentary, but no one has as yet called her stupid. It would have been an act of crass stupidity wilfully to encourage her forces to loot the very land she was trying to restore to an acceptance of Lancastrian rule, with her son as heir to the throne. On reaching St Albans, so the story goes, the Lancastrian army suddenly became a disciplined force which, by a series of complicated manoeuvres, including a night march and a flank attack, won the second battle of St Albans, even though the Yorkists were commanded by the redoubtable Earl of Warwick. The explanation offered is that the rabble element, loaded down with plunder, had descended before the battle and only the household men remained. Then the rabble reappeared, and London was threatened. To avert a sack of the city the queen decided to withdraw the army, either on her own initiative or urged by the peace-loving King Henry; as it departed it pillaged the Abbey of St Albans, with the king and queen in residence, and retired north, plundering as it went. Nevertheless, it was sufficiently intact a month later to meet and nearly defeat the Yorkist forces at Towton, the bloodiest and hardest fought battle of the civil war thus far. The ‘facts’ as stated make little sense, because they are seen through the distorting glass of Yorkist propaganda.

The ravages allegedly committed by the Lancastrian army are extensively documented in the chronicles, written after the event and under a Yorkist king. They are strong on rhetoric but short on detail. The two accounts most often quoted are by the Croyland Chronicle and Abbott Whethamstede. There is no doubting the note of genuine hysterical fear in both. The inhabitants of the abbey of Crowland were thoroughly frightened by what they believed would happen as the Lancastrians swept south. ‘What do you suppose must have been our fears . . . [w]hen every day rumours of this sad nature were reaching our ears.’ Especially alarming was the threat to church property. The northern men ‘irreverently rushed, in their unbridled and frantic rage into churches . . . [a]nd most nefariously plundered them.’ If anyone resisted ‘they cruelly slaughtered them in the very churches or churchyards.’ People sought shelter for themselves and their goods in the abbey,“ but there is not a single report of refugees seeking succour in the wake of the passage of the army after their homes had been burned and their possessions stolen. The Lancastrians were looting, according to the Crowland Chronicle, on a front thirty miles wide ‘like so many locusts.“ Why, then, did they come within six miles but bypass Crowland? The account as a whole makes it obvious that it was written considerably later than the events it so graphically describes.

The claim that Stamford was subject to a sack from which it did not recover is based on the Tudor antiquary John Leland. His attribution of the damage is speculation; by the time he wrote stories of Lancastrian ravages were well established, but outside living memory. His statement was embellished by the romantic historian Francis Peck in the early eighteenth century. Peck gives a spirited account of Wakefield and the Lancastrian march, influenced by Tudor as well as Yorkist historiography. … As late as 12 February when Warwick moved his troops to St Albans it is claimed that he did not know the whereabouts of the Lancastrians, an odd lack of military intelligence about an army that was supposed to be leaving havoc in its wake. The Lancastrians apparently swerved to the west after passing Royston which has puzzled military historians because they accept that it came down the Great North Road, but on the evidence we have it is impossible to affirm this. If it came from York via Grantham, Leicester, Market Harborough, Northampton and Stony Stratford to Dunstable, where the first engagement took place, there was no necessity to make an inexplicable swerve westwards because its line of march brought it to Dunstable and then to St Albans. The Lancastrians defeated Warwick’s army on 17 February 1461 and Warwick fled the field. In an echo of Wakefield there is a suggestion of treachery. An English Chronicle tells the story of one Thomas Lovelace, a captain of Kent in the Yorkist ranks, who also appears in Waurin. Lovelace, it is claimed, was captured at Wakefield and promised Queen Margaret that he would join Warwick and then betray and desert him, in return for his freedom.

Lt. Colonel Bume, in a rare spirit of chivalry, credits Margaret with the tactical plan that won the victory, although only because it was so unorthodox that it must have been devised by a woman. But there is no evidence that Margaret had any military flair, let alone experience. A more likely candidate is the veteran captain Andrew Trolloppe who served with Warwick when the latter was Captain of Calais, but he refused to fight under the Yorkist banner against his king at Ludford in 1459 when Warwick brought over a contingent of Calais men to defy King Henry in the field. It was Trolloppe’s ‘desertion’ at Ludford, it is claimed, that forced the Yorkists to flee. The most objective and detailed account of the battle of St Albans is by the unknown continuator of Gregory’s Chronicle. The chronicle ends in 1469 and by that time it was safe to criticise Warwick, who was then out of favour. The continuator was a London citizen who may have fought in the Yorkist ranks. He had an interest in military matters and recorded the gathering of the Lancastrian army at Hull, before Wakefield, and the detail that the troops wore the Prince of Wales’ colours and ostrich feathers on their livery together with the insignia of their lords. He had heard the rumours of a large ill-disciplined army, but because he saw only the household men he concluded that the northerners ran away before the battle. Abbot Whethamstede wrote a longer though far less circumstantial account, in which he carefully made no mention of the Earl of Warwick. … Margaret of Anjou had won the battle but she proceeded to lose the war. London lay open to her and she made a fatal political blunder in retreating from St Albans instead of taking possession of the capital.' Although mistaken, her reasons for doing so were cogent. The focus of contemporary accounts is the threat to London from the Lancastrian army. This is repeated in all the standard histories, and even those who credit Margaret with deliberately turning away from London do so for the wrong reasons.

... The uncertainties and delays, as well as the hostility of some citizens, served to reinforce Margaret’s belief that entry to London could be dangerous. It was not what London had to fear from her but what she had to fear from London that made her hesitate. Had she made a show of riding in state into the city with her husband and son in a colourful procession she might have accomplished a Lancastrian restoration, but Margaret had never courted popularity with the Londoners, as Warwick had, and she had kept the court away from the capital for several years in the late 1450s, a move that was naturally resented. Warwick’s propaganda had tarnished her image, associating her irrevocably with the dreaded northern men. There was also the danger that if Warwick and Edward of March reached London with a substantial force she could be trapped inside a hostile city, and she cannot have doubted that once she and Prince Edward were taken prisoner the Lancastrian dynasty would come to an end. Understandably, at the critical moment, Margaret lost her nerve. ... Queen Margaret did not march south in 1461 in order to take possession of London, but to recover the person of the king. She underestimated the importance of the capital to her cause." Although she had attempted to establish the court away from London, the Yorkist lords did not oppose her for taking the government out of the capital, but for excluding them from participation in it. Nevertheless London became the natural and lucrative base for the Yorkists, of which they took full advantage. The author of the Annales was in no doubt that it was Margaret’s failure to enter London that ensured the doom of the Lancastrian dynasty. A view shared, of course, by the continuator of Gregory’s Chronicle, a devoted Londoner:

He that had Londyn for sake Wolde no more to hem take The king, queen and prince had been in residence at the Abbey of St Albans since the Lancastrian victory. Abbot Whethamstede, at his most obscure, conveys a strong impression that St Albans was devastated because the Lancastrian leaders, including Queen Margaret, encouraged plundering south of the Trent in lieu of wages. There must have been some pillaging by an army which had been kept in a state of uncertainty for a week, but whether it was as widespread or as devastating as the good abbot, and later chroniclers, assert is by no means certain. Whethamstede is so admirably obtuse that his rhetoric confuses both the chronology and the facts. So convoluted and uncircumstantial is his account that the eighteenth century historian of the abbey, the Reverend Peter Newcome, was trapped into saying: ‘These followers of the Earl of March were looked on as monsters in barbarity.’ He is echoed by Antonia Gransden who has ‘the conflict between the southemers of Henry’s army and the nonherners of Edward’s. The abbey was not pillaged, but Whethamstede blackened Queen Margaret’s reputation by a vague accusation that she appropriated one of the abbey’s valuable possessions before leaving for the north. This is quite likely, not in a spirit of plunder or avarice, but as a contribution to the Lancastrian war effort, just as she had extorted, or so he later claimed, a loan from the prior of Durham earlier in the year. The majority of the chroniclers content themselves with the laconic statement that the queen and her army withdrew to the north, they are more concerned to record in rapturous detail the reception of Edward IV by ‘his’ people. An English Chronicle, hostile to the last, reports that the Lancastrian army plundered its way north as remorselessly as it had on its journey south. One can only assume that it took a different route. The Lancastrian march ended where it began, in the city of York. Edward of March had himself proclaimed King Edward IV in the capital the queen had abandoned, and advanced north to win the battle of Towton on 29 March. The bid to unseat the government of the Yorkist lords had failed, and that failure brought a new dynasty into being. The Duke of York was dead, but his son was King of England whilst King Henry, Queen Margaret and Prince Edward sought shelter at the Scottish court. The Lancastrian march on London had vindicated its stated purpose, to recover the person of the king so that the crown would not continue to be a pawn in the hands of rebels and traitors, but ultimately it had failed because the Lancastrian leaders, including Queen Margaret, simply did not envisage that Edward of March would have the courage or the capacity to declare himself king. Edward IV had all the attributes that King Henry (and Queen Margaret) lacked: he was young, ruthless, charming, and the best general of his day; and in the end he out-thought as well as out-manoeuvred them.

It cannot be argued that no damage was done by the Lancastrian army. It was mid-winter, when supplies of any kind would have been short, so pillaging, petty theft, and unpaid foraging were inevitable. It kept the field for over a month and, and, as it stayed longest at Dunstable and in the environs of St Albans, both towns suffered from its presence. But the army did not indulge in systematic devastation of the countryside, either on its own account or at the behest of the queen. Nor did it contain contingents of England’s enemies, the Scots and the French, as claimed by Yorkist propaganda. Other armies were on the march that winter: a large Yorkist force moved from London to Towton and back again. There are no records of damage done by it, but equally, it cannot be claimed that there was none.

-B.M Cron, "Margaret of Anjou and the Lancastrian March on London, 1461"

#*The best propaganda narratives always contain an element of truth but it's important to remember that it's never the WHOLE truth #margaret of anjou #15th century #english history #my post #(please ignore my rambling tags below lmao)#imo the bottom line is: they were fighting a war and war is a scourge that is inevitably complicated and messy and unfortunate #arguing that NOTHING happened (on either side but especially the Lancastrians considering they were cut off from London's supplies)#is not a sustainable claim. However: Yorkist propaganda was blatantly propaganda and I wish that it's recognized more than it currently is #also I had *no idea* that her letter seems to have been actually written in 1460! I wish that was discussed more #& I wish Cron's speculation that Margaret may have feared being trapped in a hostile city with an approaching army was discussed more too #tho I don't 100% agree with article's concluding paragraph. 'Edward IV did not ultimately save England from further civil war' he...did???#the Yorkist-Lancastrian civil war that began in the 1450s ended in 1471 and his 12-year reign after that was by and large peaceful #(tho Cron may he talking about the period in between 61-71? but the civil war was still ongoing; the Lancasters were still at large #and the opposing king and prince were still alive. Edward by himself can hardly be blamed for the civil war continuing lol)#but in any case after 1471 the war WAS believed to have ended for good and he WAS believed to have established a new dynasty #the conflict of 1483 was really not connected to the events of the 1450s-1471. it was an entirely new thing altogether #obviously he shouldn't be viewed as the grand undoubted rightful savior of England the way Yorkist propaganda sought to portray him #(and this goes for ALL other monarchs in English history and history in general) but I don't want to diminish his achievements either #However I definitely agree that the prevalent idea that the Lancasters wouldn't have been able to restore royal authority if they'd won #is very strange. its an alternate future that we can't possibly know the answer to so it's frustrating that people seem to assume the worst #I guess the reasons are probably 1) the Lancasters ultimately lost and it's the winners who write history #(the Ricardians are somehow the exception but they're evidently interested in romantic revisionism rather than actual history so 🤷🏻‍♀️)#and 2) their complicated former reign even before 1454. Ig put together I can see where the skepticism comes from tho I don't really agree #but then again the Yorkists themselves played a huge role in the chaos of the 1450s. if a faction like that was finally out of the way #(which they WOULD be if the Lancasters won in 1461) the Lancastrian dynasty would have been firmly restored and #Henry and Margaret would've probably had more space and time to restore royal authority without direct rival challenges #I'd argue that the Lancasters stood a significantly better chance at restoring & securing their dynasty if they won here rather than 1471 #also once again: the analyses written on Margaret's queenship; her role in the WotR; and the propaganda against her are all phenomenal #and far far superior than the analyses on any other historical woman of that time - so props to her absolutely fantastic historians

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