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#ds9 the adversary
walkingstackofbooks · 10 months
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DS9 3x26 The Adversary thoughts (I'm re-watching, so beware spoilers for future episodes!)
(06/06/2023)
I remember being so damn confused the first time I watched this by the Commander's log, thinking "I'm sure I'd have been spoiled for the fact Sisko left DS9 in Season 3???" Even after the awards ceremony I had to rewind and rewatch to catch up that I'd just assumed that was what he meant XD
"Now that you have another pip on your collar, does that mean I can't disagree with you anymore?" "No. It just means I'm never wrong." CREW AS FRIEEENDS
"Curzon would've been proud of you, but not as proud as I am." I LOVE THISS?
Isn't Jake like 16? 17? Surely he's old enough to be allowed some champagne!
This is the changeling episode no?
Tzenkethi is the one in lots of fanfic? I remember thinking this episode would finally explain why I kept seeing it in fanfic summaries but nope. (Atm I've ended up assuming it's a Stitch in Time thing? That I shall, at some point, read!)
Oh no - now he's a Captain people are gonna start saying "Captain! and my brain's gonna reply "Polites!" every time because Epic: The Musical is a total earworm
"My son, the writer, thinks I should say something profound on his occasion." He's so fond of Jake, even in his private moments
I live Jadzia so much, she's unstoppable
"Kira, O'Brien, Bashir, they're all dying of curiosity and, well, I have to tell them something." XD the best of reasons to have a deep conversation with your friend, your other friends need gossip!
"Fine. You tell them when she gets back, I'm going to taking her to the holosuite and we're going to watch the seventh game of the nineteen sixty four World Series." I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT ACTUALLY WORKED! Man, she knows Sisko better than I do!
"Why didn't you answer me?" "I had this spanner in my mouth." XD
Wait is this the real Julian or the changeling? Idk to me it looked like he was proud to remember that the Julian he was impersonating had extension courses. But also that's a very Julian thing to say... Why are these changelings so goood, I want to be able to spot at least some slight inconsistencies!
"Not bad for an extension course." Well he's either enhanced or a changeling so 🤷‍♀️
Eddington sucking up to the captain >:(
Oh, Miles' face when he realises he saw Julian where he shouldn't be <3 And that makes Julian sus. And he has to report it.
"No one's accusing anyone of anything. But I want to talk to Julian." The seriousness of this underlined by the fact he usually says Dr Bashir, I think. > Would be interested to know what frequency Sisko actually does call people by name. Hmm. Maybe a project to do. (Edit: yes I started this project and this was the spark)
Kira saying "Might as well do me next." to Dax đź‘€
"If O'Brien can't regain control before we cross the border I'll have no choice but to destroy the Defiant." Well that's breaking out the old, old TOS tactic! I'm here for it
*SPARKS* "Would someone please get me out of here?!!!" Love that dramatic reveal!
The glistening in Kira's eyes and the set of her jaw as she sets the countdown.
"Auto-destruct in seven minutes." "Just tell me how long it will take." "Well, I guess it'll have to be less than seven minutes, won't it." Gotta love some O'Brien deadpan
The tension. I love it
"You're too late. We are everywhere." What a season ending, incredible.
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stopthatbluecat · 7 months
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Gods changelings just LOVE to be Julian Bashir. They love it, can't get enough of it. They slip into Julian form and do a little twirl about it I bet.
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star-trek-dumb-comics · 1 year
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DS9 girlies on this website will make the most big brained and well thought out posts on that show then straight up have the worst TNG takes you can imagine
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old-type-40 · 1 year
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If you've watched DS9 and have a vague recollection that it's not possible to scan for changelings, bonus points for you. Here are some screen caps with dialogue from the episode The Adversary.
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Also, after Odo encountered his people for the first time, he gave up using his bucket early in season 3. Though of course the changeling aboard the Titan might not want to have been accidentally discovered as a puddle of gelatinous goo on the floor in its quarters.
There's a strange mix in season 3 of Picard of Matalas covering certain details carefully while flubbing others as to the changelings. For example, when the cadets ask Picard about him being hunted by a Hirogen, my first tought was, "How the hell did a Hirogen get to the Alpha Quadrant?" And then the cadet asked about that though we never got an answer.
@trekcore said that Matalas didn't have a lot of time to get season 3 ready to shoot as Patrick Stewart wanted to shoot seasons 2 and 3 back to back. And I'm wondering if he was stuck relying upon his own memory of details rather than being able to brush up on things because of time constraints.
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mergaliscious · 5 months
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when I told my spouse DS9 had an among us episode they thought I meant "an episode in which there is an imposter among them" vaguely and it is so fun to watch that illusion shatter
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joshuaalbert · 1 year
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hey is snw 1x9 not literally just the plot of aliens (1986). like ive actually only seen the first one but from what i know of the sequel im pretty sure this is just aliens (1986).
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asexualjedi · 5 days
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Kira: odo are you alright
Odo: yeah I just killed one of my people but I’m so cool I’m soo good. I’m so great
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bagheerita · 17 days
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A few years ago I made a post comparing DS9 to SGA in the greater schema of the star trek/gate universes' developments, as it's based in a sort of city in the middle of nowhere but next to/containing a Very Important Portal, and there's those one eyebrowless aliens that everybody hates and we're very Invested in them not controlling this area of space anymore.
But then they introduce a new antagonist. This is season 3 stuff, we're really upping our game. Of course there's that one group of rebellious locals who just want to steal your tech and start wars they can't finish, but I'm talking a real new bad guy... the bad guy... who can steal your face and look like anyone.
Not that the Asurans and the Founders really have that much in common, but like... is aliens who can impersonate anyone just the next conceptual step? This comparison started out as a joke, but is there something here???
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brieflyinfatuated · 10 months
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Spiffy new outfit
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eldritchhorrorqueer · 3 months
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See the thing about ds9 being a giant polycule full of queers is that it makes it all the more relatable. I'm besties with my metamore like Kira and Keiko; I'm respectfully sharing space with a metamore who I don't know very well and kinda rubs me the wrong way but hey we love the same person so we're awkwardly chilling like Garak and O'Brien; I'm trans and getting railed from all angles at once just like Julian Bashir; I'm in an adversarial friendship with my metamore once removed like Kira and Quark.
It's just such a wholesome representation of the queer trans polyam space future we all deserve.
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worflesbian · 9 months
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Klingons & Racialisation - the Long Post
This post is an overview of the racial coding of the Klingons from their first appearance to the present day, illustrated by quotes from Trek writers, actors and crew members taken from the Memory Alpha article Depicting Klingons, with my own interjected summaries and explanations. It is by no means comprehensive (I likely missed some stuff), and does not offer critical analysis of the quotes provided, but nonetheless is intended to demonstrate irreproachably the open fact that Klingons have always been intentionally written and designed as non-white -- something that fandom consistently fails to take into account when perpetuating racist stereotypes and reiterating racist canon content. I recommend reading the whole article for a more in-depth understanding of the subject, as well as seeking out the existing writing of fans of colour. This post is primarily for reference purposes so I've tried to limit my own analysis and opinions, but I do post those in my Klingon tag as well as more general headcanons and worldbuilding and I'm happy to answer any (good faith) questions this post may raise.
As always, if I have overstepped in any way as a white fan in making this post, I am grateful to be informed and will make any required changes.
Content warning for outdated and offensive language under the cut.
The Original Series
"There is some suggestion that the Klingons represent a Cold Warrior's view of China in the 1960s – swarthy, brutally repressive." (Star Trek Magazine issue 153, p. 66) "And I think he was basing a lot of it on the kind of attitude of the Japanese in World War II...." ("Errand of Mercy" Starfleet Access, TOS Season 1 Blu-ray) The script of "Errand of Mercy" introduces the Klingon look by saying, "We see the Klingons are Orientals," "Spray my hair black, give me a kind of swamp creature green olivey mud reptilian make-up, and we'll borrow some stuff from Fu Manchu, and put a long moustache and eyebrows on me." ("The Sword of Colicos", Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - The Official Poster Magazine, No. 8) "I think the makeup was called 'Mexican #1 or #2.' That was the name of the original makeup foundation – they actually had kind of racist names at the time, like 'Negro #1' and 'Mexican #2' – which was the basis for the original Star Trek makeups." (Star Trek Magazine issue 172, p. 59) "In the original series, all they wore was a dark face and their black hair," Michael Westmore observed. ("Michael Westmore's Aliens: Season Two", DS9 Season 2 DVD special features) The Klingons' appearance changed within the original Star Trek series; although dark makeup and heavy eyebrows were the norm, the Klingons of "The Trouble with Tribbles" were much lighter-skinned and more Human-like in appearance.... He noticed that they are not only less like Mongol warriors by having less of a swarthy appearance but also by being slightly not as fierce... ("The Trouble with Tribbles" Starfleet Access, TOS Season 2 Blu-ray) "...they were meant to represent the Communist foes of the United States specifically during the Vietnam War, which was being controversially fought at that time. (Star Trek: The Original Series 365, p. 222) "...let us never set up a situation whereby those adversaries of ours [Klingons] give any indication of ever being anything but highly aggressive and self-seeking opponents." (These Are the Voyages: TOS Season Three)
Here it is explicitly stated that the Klingons were based on various Asian cultures, with the USSR also being mentioned heavily in the article. This influence and the use of "yellowface" is covered more comprehensively in this youtube video Klingons & The History Of Racial Coding. However, the video has some notable gaps which I hope to cover in this post.
Post-TOS (movies)
The Star Trek III portrayal of Klingons took inspiration from Japanese history. "Harve [Bennett] had the notion that the Klingons were like Samurai warriors," explained linguist Marc Okrand. (Star Trek: Communicator issue 114, p. 27) Robert Fletcher agreed with Bennett, later saying of the Klingons, "I always liked to think of them as authoritarian, almost feudal, like Japan had been." (The Making of the Trek Films, UK 3rd ed., p. 52) Regarding the make-up, Michael Westmore observed, "Until now, Klingons were brown. Some had a bony ridge running down the middle of their foreheads, long black wigs and facial hair." (Star Trek: The Next Generation Makeup FX Journal, p. 28) "I thought it was an ideal way for us to have our closure too, because the Klingons for us have always been the Communist Block, the Evil Empire. It just made sense to do that story." (The Making of the Trek Films, UK 3rd ed., p. 100) "Gene was really bothered by the Klingons in VI [....] [They] were, in his words, 'too civilized, too decent, too much of the good guys in the story.' [....] [The Klingon detente] was not the way Gene would have handled it. He would have reversed it, he would have had the Klingons being the ones who couldn't handle the peace, with the Federation saying, 'Come on, let's try and work this out.'" (Star Trek Movie Memories, hardback ed., p. 289) "The story never explored the Klingon culture the way I'd hoped it would [....] I was hoping for greater insight into the Klingons." (I Am Spock) Nimoy hoped, in specific, that the movie would provide some important insight into why the Klingons had "always been so angry, such nasty, vicious murderers." Nimoy wanted the insightful knowledge to be an intellectually transformational force, changing the thinking of Kirk and the audience. (Star Trek Movie Memories, hardback ed., pp. 287-288) In an interview in the DS9 Season 7 DVD, Robert O'Reilly observed that a long-running joke among actors who have played Klingons is that they do not want to appear in the Star Trek films as, he believes, the only purpose of a Klingon in one of the films was to be killed off.
Although these last three quotes may not seem relevant, I believe they highlight an important facet of the racialisation of the Klingons. It reads as though Gene Roddenberry was against depicting the Klingons in a more sympathetic light than the Federation, and considering that the Klingons are intended to be non-white, refusing to give depth or motive to their anger in favour of keeping them "nasty, vicious murderers" comes across as fairly racist, especially when these kind of reductive and harmful stereotypes could've been challenged as Nimoy suggests. The treatment of Klingons as disposable villains is also concerning in this context.
The Next Generation
African-American actors were often cast as Klingons in TNG and subsequent Star Trek productions. This practice wasn't racially motivated but was instead carried out because it lessened makeup time, as the performers already had a brown complexion without having to have their skin painted that color. (Stardate Revisited: The Origin of Star Trek: TNG, Part 2: Launch, TNG Season 1 Blu-ray) Tony Todd, who portrayed the recurring Klingon character Kurn, stated, "I don't look at the Klingons necessarily as African-Americans, but it's about tapping into something–they're certainly an alienated people, so maybe that's why African-American actors can identify with those characters. But that doesn't mean it's exclusive to them." (Star Trek: Communicator issue 116, p. 54) Michael Westmore actually changed the Klingon facial design in numerous ways, though. He stated, "I added a Shakespearean style of facial hair and a forehead bone structure based on dinosaur vertebrae and I was able to modify motion picture Klingons for television." (Star Trek: Aliens & Artifacts, p. 59) In "A Matter Of Honor", the Klingons were intended to be used to shed some light on a common social problem prevalent at the time of the episode's making. This was, namely, what it was like to be the only person of either white or black skin coloration while surrounded by people of the other color. The Klingons were selected to illustrate this theme as a spin on the usual arrangement of a predominantly Human crew serving aboard the Enterprise-D alongside Worf. (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages, p. 176) Two historical societies, the Samurai and Vikings, served as other inspirations, Moore perceiving about Klingon culture, "There was the calm, elegant reserve associated with the Samurai but there was the 'party-down' like the Vikings." (Star Trek: Communicator issue 114, p. 58) "I stopped thinking of the Klingons as the Cold War adversary," he explained. "I didn't think it fit [....] The place where the Russians were when I was doing the Klingon shows just wasn't as relevant any more." (Star Trek: The Magazine Volume 1, Issue 19, pp. 64-65) "The Klingons are not evil, tyrannical pirates bent only on pillage and plunder. They have a strict, almost unyielding code of ethics and honor and take their responsibilities as rulers seriously." Following a description of the Klingon homeworld, the memo continued by saying, "Klingon society could most closely be compared to that of Sparta or feudal Japan." ("Sins of the Father" audio commentary, TNG Season 3 Blu-ray) Having recently seen the film Malcolm X, he imagined the Klingons in the "Birthright" duology as metaphors for black people. (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages, p. 274; Star Trek: Communicator issue 105, p. 16) "There's a certain way you have to carry yourself. You have to really be able to project the violence and the anger [....] All you have to do is think of the Spartans. They say, 'They'd rather have you come home dead on your shield than come home a coward.' [18]
This is where I feel the video essay previously mentioned falls short -- in the next gen era, Klingons are now explicitly black-coded. While some Asian cultural influences are still cited, they learn more towards the historical and are intermixed with other historical European influences (Spartans, Vikings, Shakespeare) rather than being fueled by contemporary prejudices towards the political enemies of the US as they were in the TOS era.
Deep Space Nine
Fields also generally based the Klingon group on American Western prototypes from the film The Magnificent Seven or, to a lesser extent, Japanese prototypes from The Magnificent Seven's movie source material, Seven Samurai. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion (pp. 131-132)) "So, the hair [...] was permed. So, it had more of a curl instead of the straight type look, and by perming it, they were able to kind of give them larger, bigger hair, so it was more like a mane." ("Michael Westmore's Aliens: Season Two", DS9 Season 2 DVD special features) "I don't know how you could equate Klingons with what's going on in the world today," he admitted. "I think the intention was to make them like samurai. That hairdo they gave them is very much a samurai hairdo. A lot of the fight sequences, the moves with the bat'telh, are very much taken out of the Asian martial arts [....] It's very romantic you know, these three old guys, the Klingon over-the-hill gang." (The Official Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Magazine issue 15, pp. 17-18) "It was different for them to get into this makeup, because [...] [the makeup was more elaborate and] the beards were bigger, and they were greyer, and they had curls to them, and the moustaches, they had the Fu Manchu look to them. So, they weren't used to sitting that long to be a Klingon." ("Michael Westmore's Aliens: Season Two", DS9 Season 2 DVD special features) For recreating some old-style Klingons in "Trials and Tribble-ations", the Klingon-playing actors had to be made up with the same swarthy, shiny brown makeup as used in the original series. (The Magic of Tribbles: The Making of Trials and Tribble-ations) ...he had them unite in song, thinking this was "just the kind of thing that Klingons do" because they are, in his opinion, similar to Vikings. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion (p. 449)) "I always saw the Klingons as a combination of Japanese Samurai who haven't had their morning coffee (or tea!) and African Zulu warriors." [25]
In DS9 the only inspirations cited seem to be historical, once again leaning towards feudal Japan and the Vikings. Interestingly although the Klingons here are predominantly dark-skinned, I don't think that J.G. Hertzler, who is white, had his skin significantly darkened to play Martok (at least, not compared to the obvious brown makeup worn by other white actors playing Klingons). Having a white actor play a Klingon without dark makeup could've set a precedent decreasing the use of such practices later on, but no one seems to have picked up on it.
Enterprise
The Klingons of ENT: "Sleeping Dogs" were based on the crew of the Russian submarine Kursk. "For me," said Dekker, "the point was to acknowledge the Klingons as 'people' – to find them in a clear position of distress [....] The idea to 'humanize' their plight was mine, and it wasn't anything I thought about as far as canon. It just seemed right." (Star Trek: The Official Starships Collection, issue 41, pp. 10-12) In the final draft script of "Affliction", the altered Klingons were initially referred to as "fierce-looking aliens" and were further described thus; "The aliens have a swarthy complexion, and dark facial hair... they could easily be mistaken for Humans. We'll eventually learn these are Klinqons... but their cranial ridges have disappeared."
At this point in time it seems the Klingons had essentially done a 180 from one-dimensional villains to sympathetic fan favourites, while still retaining the skin-darkening aspect of their makeup and "barbaric" characterisation. Although this is not mentioned in the article's section on the Abrams films, the images provided do demonstrate a level of skin darkening for the Klingons' brief appearance in Into Darkness.
The final section of the article is incomplete, meaning I don't have a lot of information for Discovery's redesign of the Klingons. The sources I can find cite ancient civilisations such as the Byzantines as well as Islamic architecture as inspiration for the set design, with a baroque influence on the costumes. I have heard rumours that the crew of Discovery have cited North African cultures as their inspiration for the Klingons but I can't currently find a source for this. Despite the lack of direct quotes, it's visibly clear that the Klingon makeup is still darkening the skin of white actors, although this time also to non-human blue and purple colours, as well as altering certain features in a racialised way. To elaborate: Mary Chieffo, who plays L'Rell on Discovery, is white and has a very thin nose and small lips, but in costume these are broadened in a way that seems imitative of African ethnic features.
As of the making of this post (early August 2023) I haven't seen any of Strange New Worlds, but from some cursory research its latest episode (Subspace Rhapsody) seems to have put a white actor (Bruce Horak) in brown makeup to play a Klingon. I am deeply disappointed that on a television set in 2023 people can still be darkening an actors skin like this without questioning the racial implications of what they're doing.
Thank you for reading to the end of this post. Please feel free to link to it if you found it useful enough to cite in another context. I would like to reiterate that I am white and while this is an issue I care deeply about it is not one I have an emic understanding of, and if anything I've said here is inappropriate I would be very grateful to be made aware.
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stopthatbluecat · 11 months
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June 19th, 1995 - Commander Sisko becomes Captain Sisko
"Congratulation, Captain Sisko."
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writergeekrhw · 10 months
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I just watched season 3 ep 25, Facets, when Jadzia undergoes her zhian'tara and the Curzon thing was... wow. Can you share a bit of the background behind that?
I can't remember the discussions about that episode, TBH, and I didn't write it. I was deep in the weeds working on "The Adversary." But I think we made it clear on DS9, at least since "Dax," that Curzon was a mixed bag as a person and definitely had some serious shortcomings. "Facets" is another expression of that.
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old-type-40 · 1 year
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I just couldn't resist. In so much TV writing today, there is a desire to have twists and turns and sometimes things don't make much sense in retrospect. Though this is minor compared to some things I've seen.
At least there could've been some dialogue in which Worf tells Raffi that because the changeling was at the point at which it needed to revert to its liquid state, it couldn't transform into something to easily elude them or fight them off when they caught it. And it's possible such lines were in the script but ended up being cut.
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starfleetisapromise · 6 months
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Some thoughts on Picard Season 2 and why it's unpopular.
So I had a bit of an epiphany yesterday. I'm rewatching Picard Season 2 in preparation for a discussion about it with a colleague next week and I was constantly reminded that a lot of fans are very visceral in their dislike of this season.
To be honest, there are parts of it that I don't like. I think the whole Soong/Kore story was a totally unnecessary distraction and was only done, once again to shoehorn in Brent Spiner and the Picard/Data relationship - which I never found compelling in the first place. But that's just me.
However, I realized that Picard Season 2 does something that no other season (or show) of Star Trek does, it centers the entire narrative on humanity. By making the protagonists AND the antagonists humans, there is no subtle (or not so subtle) use of alienation to map contemporary adversaries or conflicts onto the Federation's adversaries. This is important, because, as I have argued in a multitude of research papers, Star Trek is very, very guilty of framing future conflicts through the lens of contemporary adversaries. This was done very explicitly in TOS - both Roddenberry and Coon overtly asked for the Klingons to be modeled on an "Asiatic Communist" trope. Communism was again the enemy in TNG, through the medium of the Borg and "assimilation" and loss of individuality. DS9 has its Cardassian "Nazis"; Voyager and Enterprise the chaotic post-Cold War existential threat of non-state actors and by the time we get to Discovery, the Klingons have been recast as Jihadist extremists.
The fundamental problem with this is that no matter how much Star Trek might talk about the Federation being a "future better us"; by casting recognizable real world adversaries as the Federation's foes, it automatically casts the contemporary US as the Federation (that's just how TV works, especially through the manichean lens of US culture).
So, if you don't want to think too hard about the ways in which the US interacts with the world. If you don't want to think too hard about American exceptionalism and Neo-imperialism and the misuse of force (and capital) without and within the US. If you cloak it all in the surface progressiveness of visible diversity - and I'm not claiming that diversity and representation isn't important, of course it is, but diversity does not equal progressive politics - then you can happily watch Star Trek without ever having to grapple with the uglier parts of the American experience. If we are the Federation, and clearly we must be because the Federation's foes are recognizably our foes, then we are already the galaxy's "good guys"; the Federation is just a future extension of the American now.
Season 2 of Picard blows that all apart. The bad guys are the Confederation and, by going back to the 21st century and exposing the roots of the Confederation in all the ugly, racist, greedy, unequal, venal, corrupt layers of 21st century America, the Confederation is a direct consequence of that present (our present) being allowed to play out into the future. We are the enemy in the 21st century and we become the enemy in the 24th century.
And the show pulls absolutely no punches. We get ICE brutalizing detainees and explicit discussions of people being disappeared because they are dehumanized as "non-people". Homeless encampments and immigrant clinics amid glittering towers and sumptuous parties. We get quips about the ridiculousness of pledging allegiance to a flag (thank you RĂ­os) and monologues about exchanging white hoods for suits (thank you Guinan). Some of the despair is directed to the behaviors of everyone on the planet - climate change - but the vast majority of the political commentary is explicitly about the contemporary US.
Not only that but it's done by a diverse cast that speaks Spanish, and is brown and queer and female and empowered (thank you Queen Agnes) and where the only white men are aging and feeble.
It is (the wandering Soong/Kore storyline notwithstanding) fucking brilliant television and it's the first time that Star Trek is ever explicitly - textually AND subtextually - progressive. There is no ability for the audience to elide the message by hiding in the fiction that we are the Federation and THEY are the bad guys (the Klingons, the Borg, the Romulans, the Breen, the Cardassians).
So no, let's get rid of the bullshit that people don't like Picard Season 2 because of "the writing", the writers room for Seasons 2 and 3 is almost identical (Matalas, Appel, Monfette, Maggs and Okomura) and the writing for both seasons was taking place almost at the same time.
Whether it's subconscious or not, the disproportionate degree of hate leveled at Season 2 (often by the same fans that love season 3 for it's "great writing" and overt nostalgia) exists because the storytelling in Season 2 leaves fans no place to hide. Because for the first time Star Trek really dives into the core of science fiction, which, as many, many sci-fi writers have explained (Margaret Atwood most recently), is not to predict the future but to critique the present.
I may come back and edit or extend this later, but right now I'm going to leave it as is and post.
Edited to clarify that you can hate Season 2 for any reason you want to, personal taste is just that, personal - but the (for the first time) explicit social commentary cannot be divorced from the unusual levels of vitriol hurled at this season by a substantial group of very vocal fans.
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joshuaalbert · 2 years
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buzzfeed article: top five star trek episodes that are the most like john carpenter’s the thing (1982)
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