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goldenspecter · 8 months

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Did the ask about the whole Leo being above and manipulative not go through? I'm not pressuring you or anything it's just that sometimes I get anxious if people don't give me some kind of responds to an ask such I'm not answering this types and what not it's completely fine if you don't of course also I'm talking about the ask that was made about the 2007 fight post about Leo and raph fighting constantly here's some of what your wrote in case you don't rember the post it's kind of old

your post: Once again, I am wishing Rise fans can praise the movie without insulting/demeaning other iterations of TMNT. It's absolutely frustrating, as a fan of all the iterations plus Rise, constantly seeing people go "Rise did the Raph/Leo fight better than other where it's not just "Who's a better Leader/Leader" fights!" when not that's not the case. Rise didn't do it 'better' than the others, they just made it much more explicit, without using leadership as the framing of the fight, but the other iterations are not actually fighting about Leadership.

again sorry if this comes off as peer pressuring I'm just trying make it clear what post I'm talking about so were both on the same wave length again I apologize if this is annoying.

Hi anon!

Yes your ask did get through, the only reason I didn't answer quite immediately was due to me not really being on Tumblr this past week. I saw your ask and was intrigued because it's a BIG /pos question, I had to ramble to my partners @dakotafinely and @namiikilo about this, and share my thoughts with them about what you asked first.

I also wanted to present my answer in a way that makes sense, hence why it took me so long. So don't worry about pressuring me, I just wanted to take time and make sure I could convey my point in a coherent manner. Sorry about causing the anxiety /gen

This is the original ask:

Since the way you worded your ask leans more towards Bayverse Leo from how you included certain actions only he does, I have to compare him to 07 Leo to make my point. Here are my thoughts, as coherent I can make them:

The Short Answer: I think Bayverse Leo, as a whole, was an attempt by the writers to expand upon 07 Leo's characterization, but fundamentally misunderstood what made 07 Leo so infuriatingly perfect.

The Long Answer(buckle up):

07 Leo is, at his core, a natural evolution of how Leo would have matured as an adult Pre-Rise. Perfectionism and having such a high standard on himself of all people combined with the knowledge of him being so good at what he does, would heightened his arrogance and beliefs in his own skills.

This is how it was/is before he took the journey, across the world that kept him separated from his brothers for over a year. Leo has been expected to be perfect for so long there would only be a matter of time before that expectation jades him, that he would become a bit of an asshole who wrongly believes he doesn't need to lower himself to anyone's standards because he is the standard.

*I discuss things that are mentioned in the prequel comics, specifically the issue that discuss and expands upon Leo's Journey. So I'll include screenshots from the wikia that explain the events in that.

** I also own these 5 prequel comics!

However, since he went on the trip by himself, and with none of his brothers, especially Raphael, to keep him in check, his ego and sense of self got warped, and especially with the things he's gone through on his journey. He learned all of these things from his journey but never actually put them in use towards his own family in several different ways:

Leo lacks compassion when it comes to his brothers and why they took on their jobs and new roles and scoffs at April when she's explains to him what they do. He lacks the compassion to inquire with his brothers and the way they were all hurting-- Mikey feeling like his family isn't whole anymore, hence his nostalgia for the good days, Donnie having to care for their arguably disabled father while also working an at home job, Raph having the trauma of witnessing an former vigilante who seemed to understand him die in front of him, and that being how he got the Nightwatcher armor we see in the movie(Promise he would take it because David, the vigilante, didn't want anyone in his family/police to figure out who he really was.) Compare this to Bayverse Leo, who audibly and explicitly hears and knows how his actions harm his family, but chooses not to engage with it and dismiss their feelings.

Leo lacks humility and refuses to understand his brothers as they've changed. Because of that, he refuses to try and understand his brothers as the people they are now.

07 Leo is extremely selfish and shortsighted because of how he constantly frames the journey he went on was for them, to better himself for them.

He lacks the courage having the courage to even consider how badly they were effected by him going on this journey.

He most importantly lacks community that he continually estranged himself from

Each one of these things that's bolded or italicized is a trait that he was supposed to have learned and fully understood on his journey.

In my eyes, the things that makes 07 Leo stand out from Bayverse is more so how all of these external components worsened his fractured development. Bayverse, in a way, engineered those components that fractured his development.

07 Leo has never actively gone out of his way to revoke or invalidate his family's autonomy, right in front of them compared to Bayverse(who as a reminder forced Donnie to lie to his brothers about the possibility to be human and got on Raph when he called him out for revoking their autonomy to make a choice at the chance of gaining privilege where they are currently systemically disadvantaged), but does it in the way that can be perceived as him doing what is best for his family. Examples being him not wanting to admit or entertain the idea that the night watcher is going good or that his own family made the choice to idolize the vigilant on their own—he believes that night watched is encroaching on his territory and also being a bad influence to his brothers, primarily Raph and Mikey and fights to stop Nightwatcher from being a bad influence on the two and the fact that Leo perceived his own methods to be effective, combined with his own hypocritical view of Nightwatcher—or him attributing fault to everywhere else but 07 Leo potentially being part of the problem as well.

However, you can possibly argue that because the world has jaded him so hard and he has forgotten the point of community, the world had literally made him hate humans on his training journey. It eroded him of certain things that by the time he gets back home, he just doesn't have that compassion he supposedly learned on his training and doesn't learn to dig within himself to practice empathy to his brothers and doesn't bother seeing them as who they are now, he literally scoffs at the idea of who they have become when April tells him and expects them to fall inline as perfect soldiers and obey orders, to erase what made them them, doing unto them as what has been done to him.

In addition, along with him being a pretty perfect development for a character like Leo, pre-rise,he has been expected to be perfect for so long there would only be a matter of time before that expectation jades him, that he would become a bit of an asshole who wrongly believes he doesn't need to lower himself to anyone's standards because he is the standard.

Leo's and his family's arc in the 2007 movie is about growing up and fixing a broken family caused by abandonment from pretty much all angles, Bayverse Leo is the one who's the agent and inevitable cause of abandonment nor is he mired by the tenets of nostalgia among him and his family either and the unwillingness to grow up and mature.

Could this be more coherent? Absolutely, maybe in the future I'll make a video essay giving a full retrospective on the 2007 movie and especially with the frustrating yet beloved nuance of 07 Leo's character.

Either way! Hope you enjoyed hearing my (still somewhat disjointed) thoughts! <3

#tmnt #teenage mutant ninja turtles #2007 tmnt #tmnt bayverse #tmnt 2007 #bayverse leo #2007 leo #cosmo answers #cosmo rambles

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cosmic--static · 2 years

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mk after getting dumped back into the "listen to the amazing devil way to much each day" phase, i gotta finally share my interpretations(analysis maybe?) of The Horror and the Wild Album. i'm gonna line the song youtube in the title of each song so that you can listen to it if you haven't heard it!

It's a little wordvomit-ty so be warned, this is gonna be a long one.

everything's below the cut!

Overall, the whole album seems to be about relationships of some sort and feelings for others (not necessarily the romantic kind!). I've seen other people say it's about love n stuff like that too so.

The Rockrose and the Thistle

Starting off with the plants in the title!

Cistus, or as we know it here, Rock Rose, is known to have certain medicinal properties! It can help with healing small external cuts and also help uplift your mood. Also, Rock Rose is said to symbolize strength, most likely because of its hardiness.

In terms of its properties, Thistle is also pretty good for your health, including being good for the immune system and bone health. As for its meaning, Thistle also seems to represent strength and courage.

Something probably unrelated but interesting I noticed while looking for information on both plants is that they both can be found in Mediterranean countries

Right off the bat, there's no "music". To me, it sounds more like winds howling at the top of a cliff or something, which fits with the first few lyrics "When you call to me asleep // up the ragged cliffs I scramble".

"A single thread hangs limply down // and I breathe not now, not now // and I find you all unwoven // trying desperately to sew // and I know the kindest thing is to leave you alone"

This song sounds like the narrator has just found someone they love grieving. Whether they are grieving a loved one, or perhaps the loss of a piece of themself, they are grieving and it isn't pretty per se. They're falling apart and the narrator doesn't know how to give comfort to this person, or the person isn't receptive to it. Despite all that, the narrator will stick by this person's side "and you'll wail, you'll scream, but I'll never stop // 'Cause it's all that I have left"

Then, "I wake and hear you calling // and up those cliffs I climb // and I find you with a thimble weeping // May I, I ask, may I?" The narrator is now being let into the person's walls, the next lines have the person give the narrator the thimble " 'Cause you've no clue how to sew" to sew them back together.

The Rock Rose and Thistle both symbolize strength, endurance, loyalty, and such, this song, to me, is about that exactly. Grief and loss are terrible to try to get through, but it's easier if you have someone you trust to help pull you back together.

The Horror and the Wild

I am normal about this song(lie). I have always listened to this song and thought of it as becoming more than what was expected of you. Being better than the adults in your life as a child thought you to be. It's the coming back to old family members who belittled you for something or another and showing them how you were successful not because of them, but because of your own strengths. It's being better than the things people say behind your back. ANyway, to the actual song.

"They thought us blind (we were just blinking) // All the stones and kings of old will hear us screaming at the cold"

"Think of all the horrors that I // Promised you I'd bring // I promise you, they'll sing of every // Time you passed your fingers through my hair and called me child // witness me, old man, I am the Wild"

These parts feel a lot like the realization that those people didn't believe in you, and the anger towards them that they thought so little of you. "How bold I was, could be - will be -- still am, by god, still am" You were strong before, you are strong now. Everyone is strong and the fact that you can't stand up against people sometimes doesn't make you weak.

"Welcome to the storm, I am thunder // Welcome to my table, bring your hunger"

This is someone standing up for their younger self. This is someone saying that they are more than just their parent's child. This is the dinner scene from Arcane where Jinx shows that she isn't Powder anymore.

Wild Blue Yonder

The lyrics for this one are hard because they intertwine so often.

"Without you(you) I'm stronger(you told me I was younger) I'm no longer (that I was) // Filled with wonder // How wrong you were"

I love how this song sounds more like a conversation at times. We start off with what sounds like reminiscing on old selves/relationships/conversations. Almost like laughing at how absurd things seemed years later.

"Let's wander, till the fuckers demand an encore // Flirting (wasn't flirting) // At the back of a bookshop // Come and rip off my socks like you're blasting the locks off of a bank vault. // Halt! // This time we're done for"

It's hurried love, love that both partners know won't last but are having fun indulging in. Like a little summer fling or something. The song is upbeat and fun sounding but there is an air of melancholy. The Greek word for love, Ludus, fits perfectly. It's a playful love.

There are parts of the song that sound genuinely affectionate or have that "falling in love" feel, almost turning the overall feel into a falling in love with your summer fling and just wanting to have a good time now so you won't regret it later.

The overlapping and talking over each other adds to the sense of unfamiliarity, but there's enough flow to show that they aren't complete strangers

Welly Boots

Welly Boots! Basically, they're just rain boots from what I gathered (correct me if I'm wrong). The beginning of the song talks about an oncoming storm and someone who has lost their welly boots.

"What's it like, the children ask? // It's just like falling snow, I am above you, // And I love you, don't you know // That I'll be with you all along, as long as you are kind // To those who are not strong and cannot find their scarlet welly boots"

I've always attributed this song to losing someone. Not necessarily loss as in death, but it could be a friendship that fell apart, the strained relationship between a once happy family. Any kind of loss.

"If only you could hear my voice // But you are screaming far too loud to hear me swear // Just because I left doesn't mean that I'm not still there"

All of our relationships affect us in some way. The impact of a relationship doesn't go away just because that relationship is gone. Pieces of those people and those relationships stick with us.

"And when you scream I’m not alright // And throw my picture at the wall // ‘You were supposed to be my light // And keep me safe against them all // How could you leave me here' you’ll scream // And louder, I’ll scream back to you from that unknown // And say // I know you’re strong enough to do this on your own"

This is the part that makes me attribute this song to loss. When someone you are close to leaves you, things may feel hopeless. The screaming back from the unknown that you are strong helps some people keep moving. To get back up and move forward. Moving forward doesn't mean forgetting.

There's a time skip in the song and the person still misses the person they lost. They feel hopeless again but

"Just when you're about to give up every hope you have you turn around // Perches by the stairs, someone's gone and left behind // A brand new pair of scarlet welly boots"

Welly boots are lost in the beginning of the song, introducing the loss. But welly boots are lost or left behind at the end only to be found by someone else. I can't really decide if "you can help others that are experiencing loss to help heal" is actually what I get from that, but it's what I'm going with for now. It calls back to the beginning also with "as long as you are kind //To those who are not strong and cannot find their scarlet welly boots".

I also love the beat drop after "Just because I left doesn't mean that I'm not still--" [Guitar and Drums kick in] "--there" Its completely unexpected when first listening to the song because it's so mellow and from the Rockrose and the Thistle we know the Amazing Devil isn't afraid to do a whole song that's mellow and practically a monologue.

Farewell Wanderlust

This song is filled with stuff about self-love, or the lack thereof. Self-loathing, bad anxiety, imposter syndrome.

"You don’t know it yet, but I’m the cupid of things // That you just didn’t get, that you struggled to say"

"Every time that you fumble, I’m the laugh from the back // When you think about him, my wings start to flap // When you make a mistake, my feet lift from the floor // And when you lie there awake every night love, I soar"

Every time there's a mistake, they start to feel good about themself, they feel like they might fit in, there's a voice in the back of their mind that says they aren't good enough. This is a struggle with self-worth and trying to convince yourself you're good enough.

"Farewell Wanderlust, you’ve been oh oh so kind // You brought me to this party but you left me here behind"

The wanderlust blocks out the anxiety, the self-loathing, and such, allowing you to do something without overthinking it, but when the high from wanderlust wears out, everything else creeps back in. Panic, anxiety. People ask the person if they're alright in the song, and at the first opportunity, they leave even if it might seem rude.

"I promise you I’m not broken // I promise you there’s more"

Welcome to the turning point of the song. The stomping down the anxiety, battling back against the hatred. This is saying I am more than this.

"Goodbye to all my darkness, there’s nothing here but light // Adieu to all the faceless things that sleep with me at night // This here isn’t makeup, it’s a porcelain tomb //This here is not singing, I’m just screaming in tune"

I love the last few lines of that quote so much. I love the "I'm not singing, I'm screaming in tune" because it feels like it's saying this is my story, I am screaming out my feelings even if they don't fully make sense.

Fair

The way this song feels like a letter to a loved one pouring your feelings out because you can't articulate them. Because you struggle to be sure of yourself, but you're so sure of them.

"And he adores her, he watches her get dressed as though she’s hurtling through time // Oh darling please be mine"

Have you ever fallen in love with your best friend? Yeah. This song feels like that. The growing up together and not noticing when exactly it happens, but eventually realize that you could just, exist in their presence forever.

"Oh how oh how unreasonable // How unreasonably in love I am with everything you do"

Send this song to the best friend you're in love with challenge!

There are so many small lyrics that just scream best friends. The jokes, the being comfortable with each other.

"I’ll spend my days so close to you cos if I’m stood here // Then I’m stood here // And I’ll stand here // I’ll stand here with you"

Back to just being able to exist in their presence. Yeah. This is Philla, the Greek word for love that involves friendship. Friends to Lovers type beat. This is staring at someone and smiling and deciding that this is the person you're going to love.

That Unwanted Animal

The stark contrast between this song and Fair is mind-blowing. Everything clues me into thinking that this is an unhealthy relationship, toxic love, and just generally obsessive love. The imagery is violent most of the time and the animal is fear-inducing.

"You try so loud to love me // But I cannot seem to hear."

It sounds like a relationship that no longer is love. As the song goes on, things get more and more negative, then "the creature creeps inside"

"The scratching grows so loud // Because that unwanted animal // Wants nothing more than to get out"

I would say that the creature, the animal, is the unspoken feelings of both the people in the relationship. It's clawing its way between them, things are unpleasant.

"Be good to me I beg of him ... // ... And he replies 'no no, not I'"

In short, the relationship isn't great. As the song progresses from the beginning, things get more and more negative, violent, and toxic.

Marbles

"I’ve held your hand since nineteen seventy nine, // You were in a band - still am - yeah but back then you had hair and your smile was so sublime // And I chipped my teeth on every joke you cracked"

This is an aging love. Growing old together but still loving each other and having fun. There's so much banter in this song, but so much affection. People changing together and poking fun at each other but still finding each other attractive. That's what makes this song beautiful. It's like hearing about someone's parents or grandparents who still very much love each other.

"The flat we rented was a palace for my queen // If by palace you mean that asbestos and beans from a tin, and the gin that we brewed in the bathtub // You sang ‘do you think I’m sexy’ And oh god I really did."

"And I'd sink to the floor, what’s the point anymore, // And you, you’d reply with a glint in your eye // (And you, you’d reply with a drink in your hand) // Saying ‘I don’t know, but I’m here, I’m all yours, dear heart don’t cry’"

We get playful, we get caring and loving. This song has it all. It's like reminiscing while sitting on your roof to watch the sunset. I love the familiarity of it.

Battle Cries

For our last song, I'm starting with a line from the middle of the song.

"This isn’t a break up dear heart, it’s a season finale."

It's a breakup song. Not in the typical sense of a "breakup song" where they're salty and stuff, but rather they've figured out that they're better just as friends.

There's so much these two people have gone through together, they're happy with each other, but not in the romantic sense. There's a lot of reassurance and uplifting in this song.

Along with the platonic love, I also see it as two people who have been through a lot, finding comfort in each other

"But that creaking you hear in my bones is not pain, it’s applause"

#I started this at 3am #its now 8am #the amazing devil #TAD #joey batey #madeleine hyland #the horror and the wild #the horror and the wild album #music #pov i make analysis of a whole album at 3am #my computer is almost dead now #almost 2.5k of my wordvomit #cosmo rambles #ty to crei for being my dot connecting buddy as we looked through the lyrics of the whole album

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