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waitmyturtles · 11 months

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Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: I Told Sunset About You (ITSAY) Edition

[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. Today, in a long post, I work my way through Nadao Bangkok’s cinematic motherlode: ITSAY. Thanks to everyone for your patience with this post: I did major due diligence with it, with the absolutely TREMENDOUS help of @telomeke, @lurkingshan, @wen-kexing-apologist, and @bengiyo to ensure I had facts and analysis correct. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, to these dear friends for holding me down and offering your sharp eyes.]

To dive into a topic as complicated, as beautiful, as reflective, as impactful as a macro-analysis of I Told Sunset About You is to take on...a lot. As I’ve discussed with @lurkingshan, from a filmmaking perspective, as so many of us who have watched ITSAY know -- it occupies the top spot of Thai BLs by way of pure cinematic quality. (If you follow my late-night liveblogs, you’ll know that this was the first show -- not even Bad Buddy did this to me -- where I needed to stop multitasking, to just sit and watch the episodes. No drama has done that for me in the years since I became a multitasking mom.)

As with 2gether and Still 2gether last week, this watch of ITSAY is a definite milestone on the OGMMTVC list, and I really thank @shortpplfedup, @bengiyo, @wen-kexing-apologist, @lurkingshan, @telomeke, and others in advance for what we’ve talked about in direct conversation regarding ITSAY, its many influential tentacles, and the influences that the show itself may have come from.

I’d like to touch upon a couple of frames to structure this piece, but the caveat here is that by no way will I consider myself an ITSAY expert, because there’s a tremendous fandom that knows much more about the Nadao Bangkok studio, about PP Krit and Billkin Putthipong, about the director and screenwriter, Boss Naruebet, and much more. I will have a substantial postscript to capture loose notes and learnings that didn’t make it into the main analysis.

Inspired in part by direct conversations with @telomeke and @lurkingshan, I’d like to dive into the following:

1) From a question that @lurkingshan posed to me: what shows from the start of the OGMMTVC watchlist -- and, more broadly, what art out there -- do I think spoke to ITSAY and its development, 2) The important story of Chinese migration to locations like Phuket, Penang (in Malaysia), and other locations on the Malay Peninsula, and how Chinese and Thai-Malay-Chinese-Peranakan cultures flavored ITSAY’s storytelling, 3) A discussion of internal and external homophobia on Teh’s experience, and how his conversation with Hoon encapsulated our understanding of homophobia, filial piety, and socioeconomic pressures in Teh’s particular life, timeline, and culture,

and more, I’m sure. Let’s boogie.

I warned some folks prior to this review that my thoughts on what may have spoken to ITSAY may turn some people off, so I offer this as a flare to y’all in advance. Acknowledging that episodes three and four of ITSAY were as emotional as anything I had ever seen in Asian BLs, Teh was just such a PERFECTLY written character. (The ITSAY supporting documentary episodes state that the show was in part inspired by Billkin’s and PP’s personal lives, and I know there’s fanon that the show was meant to deeply depict their personal stories with each other. I don’t have primary source material to point to regarding this, so I’ll leave it alone, with the understanding that there are interpretations of the show that read between the lines to bring that lens in. I acknowledge the existence of the theories, but will not dive into that here.)

So, in regards to Teh, as I chatted with @lurkingshan as I was watching the series, I just kept thinking to myself... hello, Fuse.

CHAOS BOYS! (Fire Boys? No, no, chaos boys, ha.)

This is where I think my analytical read might get a little controversial with folks, because to compare Make It Right to ITSAY -- from a LOOKS perspective, CERTAINLY from a storyline and narrative structure perspective -- no, it’s not there, not by a long shot.

But when I wonder about what ENERGIES and inspirations opened the door for Boss Narubet to WRITE the way that he wrote, and to DIRECT the way that he directed, Teh’s ENTIRE EMOTIONAL PROCESS AND BREAKDOWNS, his back-and-forth, his hesitations -- I saw chaos, and when I think of chaos, I think of Fuse.

I think of Fuse, and how Fuse was held back, particularly in Make It Right 2, regarding Fuse’s CULTURAL AND SOCIAL ASSUMPTION that he couldn’t break up with his girlfriend, all while being in a nascent give-and-take, back-and-forth relationship with Tee. And how that ASSUMPTION held BACK the full expression of commitment, honesty, and trust that Fuse and Tee ended up having at the end of MIR2. Fuse was being rather unsophisticated while he was struggling with this, and he was bringing Tee along, frustratingly, for that ride.

Something that you said to me also really resonated, @bengiyo, in conversation with @lurkingshan, about comparing TeeFuse and TehOh, in that Fuse and Teh weren’t necessarily SPARKLING or GIFTED presences. As you two both pointed out to me: Teh had to work much, much harder than Oh-aew for the talents that Teh achieved, and somehow, chaotically, he managed to lose his grip on those talents and achievements as he gave up his hard-earned opportunities for the sake of the overall-better-off Oh-aew. MESSY, BRO.

Besides MIR/MIR2, there’s somewhere else where I saw chaos. @bengiyo, you pointed out to me that you felt that you saw more of Thai queer cinema in ITSAY than in BL. I don’t think ITSAY *doesn’t* speak to BL and vice versa (I don’t think there’s anyone who thinks that, considering what Nadao Bangkok achieved with this show), but when I think of chaos -- and of the structures of storytelling that allowed us to get such an in-depth experience of Teh -- I also think of 2019′s Dew the Movie, and to a different extent, the before-its-time show in 2019′s He’s Coming To Me.

ITSAY, Dew, and HCTM have:

a) multiple chaotic leads (including actual ghosts and dudes who see ghosts), b) overarching cultural backgrounds rooted in extremely specific Asian cultures and/or practices and/or time periods, and c) interplays of emotional revelations vis à vis those specific cultural backgrounds.

- Fuse introduced to us, way back in 2016 and 2017, an internal holding back of an emotional engagement with Tee that was rooted in internal homophobia by way of his negotiation with what Fuse’s girlfriend expected of him, and what HE expected of HIMSELF regarding HAVING a girlfriend, while falling in love with a young man.

- Dew featured two young men in chaos, in 1990s rural Thailand, one of whom (Dew) who had previously lived in a different city where, likely, his sexual orientation would not have been met with such dystopic scrutiny as it did in the movie. The movie made clear that Dew wanted a solid relationship with Phop, but with both Dew’s and Phop’s families and cultural expectations holding them back, they both met untimely and unfortunate ends that hammered, in extremes, the perils, in cinema, of being gay and out in an incredibly restrictive and old-fashioned Asian society.

- HCTM featured a young man (Thun) who could see ghosts, along with the ghost that he ends up falling in love with (Med). The revelation of Thun’s being able to see Med is deeply connected to Thun’s Thai-Chinese Buddhist practices, and how his family has engaged with spirituality over the course of his life. While the structure of the show has often been described as having a happy ending, I argue the opposite -- that the ending is left open-ended, as it so often is in some of P’Aof Noppharnach’s shows, with the assumed understanding on behalf of an Asian audience that Med will one day be reborn and will leave Thun’s side (unless he’s reborn into another person that knows Thun) (hello, Until We Meet Again).

So what do all of these shows/movies -- ITSAY, Make It Right/MIR2, Dew, and HCTM -- have in common?

ITSAY, Dew, and HCTM have the common background of an old-fashioned culture serving as a MAJOR anchor to their stories. Their stories are leveraged by the micro-level, individual-level interplay between their main characters and old-fashioned worlds, complete with old-fashioned notions, assumptions, and expectations. ITSAY, Dew, and HCTM negotiate boundaries with these cultural guardrails, and we see -- Teh at the end of episode 4, Thun on the rooftop in episode 5, Dew talking to his mother -- what those expectations and boundaries have done internally to our dear young men.

Make It Right’s Fuse, way back in 2016, internalized this slightly differently, without us seeing as deeply the WORLD in which he grew up. The directors and screenwriters New Siwaj and Cheewin Thanamin gave us a guy in school with a girlfriend. FUSE’S world, that we see, is a school world, so apropos for that time of Thai BLs, complete with very heterosexual expectations for a young man WITH a girlfriend. And Fuse struggles with his push-and-pull throughout the two seasons.

What I love about the OGMMTVC project is that by having watched these projects before ITSAY, I can somewhat predict what the journey of chaos, by way of internal revelation, will be for these characters.

However.

What ITSAY DESTROYED for me, as compared to these dramas and movies, was the high level of acting that Billkin leveraged to get Teh to the emotional levels that he reached. Teh, episode 4, and Thun, episode 5 = handshakes.

This is where ITSAY’s structure just brings ITSAY to the top of the cinematic list and runs away from everything else. I posted in my liveblogging that the ending of episode 3 blew me away with a subversion of the four-act structure of screenwriting. @bengiyo corrected me to say that it was, instead, a rare example of Thai BLs achieving a successful five-act structure.

Just -- fuck.

You combine this UTTERLY FUCKING BRILLIANT STORYTELLING STRUCTURE, NARRATIVE STRUCTURING PAR FUCKING EXCELLENCE, ALONG WITH BILLKIN’S PORTRAYAL OF TEH IN HEAT AND CHAOS, and I’m eating, fam. Five-star Michelin tasting menu-level.

But before I start that meal, there’s even more that ITSAY did to really hammer in what I’m referencing by way of the anchors of old-fashioned culture to this story, which, clearly, Boss and Nadao Bangkok value, in the show’s indirect commentary on Chinese culture and migration in Thailand, and what it meant for Teh and Oh-aew to grow up in Phuket and prepare to leave for Bangkok. (If you haven’t watched ITSAY, I highly recommend that you plan on watching the supplementary documentary material, because those docs give a ton of insight into the Thai-Malay-Chinese background of the show. As a SE Asian homey, those revelations gave me the wonderful warm and familiar vibes.)

Dear @telomeke (I don’t know what I’d do without you, friend!) helped me to understand, back in my HCTM days, that I inherently know more about Chinese migration, immigration, and culture into Southeast Asia than I previously gave myself credit for as a part-Malaysian, because many of the migratory patterns and cultural assimilations are similar between Thailand and Malaysia. I appreciated that confirmation, and had my inspector’s hat on during my watch and rewatch of ITSAY.

I’ve spoken with @lurkingshan and @neuroticbookworm about the impact of migration and diasporic existence, in that, I think, oftentimes, immigrants to another country often hold a more conservative view of the cultures they bring with them -- in order to hold onto the tenets of those cultures, and to keep those tenets from getting influenced or maybe even watered down by the new environment in which immigrants are living. (My example to Shan and NBW was that I find that South Asian immigrants are often MORE conservative than my relatives in my homelands -- so as to keep a tight grip on assimilation, or, say, moral/ethical weakening by way of Western culture.)

I think the background of Phuket and EVERYTHING it lent to the show...

- Teh’s mom selling Hokkien mee at a stall storefront and the boys eating it in Teh’s old-fashioned house, - The old-fashioned o-aew dessert shop, selling a Hokkien Chinese dessert, which is often preceded by a shot of the “Phuket Old Town” sign, - Teh’s mom’s traditional Chinese-Peranakan outfits, particularly when she’s celebrating Teh and Hoon’s successes, - The tight streets and alleys,

...all of it, visually and culturally, reminded us that the boys live in a world that was DEEPLY INFLUENCED by the way back when. I posit that Teh’s mom is the encapsulation of this kind of old-fashioned culture, from the architectural style of her Hokkien mee stall, to the clothes she wears, to the heavy decorations and rugs and furniture of her old-fashioned house -- to her old-fashioned notions of filial piety that both her sons will be successful and will help to take care of her as she ages. I posit that this old-fashioned mindset also likely led Teh to believe that Teh’s mom would not accept him for liking men, which I will delve into more in a bit.

I mentioned cultural assimilation earlier: I brought up Penang, Malaysia, earlier, because I’ve spent time in Penang -- and Penang was referenced by Boss in the ITSAY documentaries as being similar to Phuket by way of cultural structure. @telomeke educated me on the tin-trade-influenced links from Phuket to the Malaysian towns of Penang and Kuala Lumpur, all towns that experienced heavy immigration from China and feature the strong presence of Chinese-Malay-Peranakan cultures in their social fabrics. The Peranakan population developed when the first Chinese immigrants to these regions began marrying the local ethnic Thai and Malay residents, creating a brand-new culture, complete with unique foods, clothing, architecture, and much more.

Having not been to Phuket yet, I believe Boss. As well, I want to note -- very important to me as a part-Malaysian -- that Boss referenced Teh’s nickname as the Malay word for tea. @telomeke noted for me this distinction as one that’s notable for how ITSAY differentiates the culture within the show -- again, a culture that’s influenced by Chinese and Malay migratory history -- against the backdrop of Bangkok, where tea is not “teh,” but rather is called “cha,” the Thai word for tea. [The most famous “teh” drink of Malaysia is teh tarik, a sweet, creamy, and strong tea drink that you see everywhere in Malaysia. While o-aew is a distinctly Chinese-style dessert, teh tarik comes from Indian immigrants to Malaysia (and is usually drunk with roti canai, another Indian import to Malaysia)].

In other words: we are talking a TREMENDOUS, a TREMENDOUS amount of references to cultural mixing, development, and assimilation here, all INTENTIONALLY placed by Boss Narubet and his screenwriting team -- and all of this serving as a reflection against what Teh and Oh-aew will experience as being “different” in their futures in Bangkok, where this Thai-Chinese-Malay cultural differential will make them different when they get to college. (Not having seen I Promised You The Moon yet, I wonder if IPYTM sets up Teh and Oh-aew as potential country mice, à la Ji Hyun and Joon Pyo in The Eighth Sense.)

One more pertinent note of cultural intermixing by way of the historical Thai-Chinese-Malay linkages. @bengiyo was surprised that I didn’t initially exclaim at the presence of hijab- and songkok-clad Muslim women and men eating at Teh’s mom’s Hokkien mee stall; Teh and Oh-aew’s friend, Phillip, is also shown with his Muslim parents. It’s funny, @bengiyo, as I said to you: because I was watching ITSAY with such a trained eye towards spotting the Thai-Chinese-Malay cultural mixing, seeing Muslims on screen did NOT ring a bell of differentials because -- I expect to see them there, in those kinds of spaces, anyway. (In fact, seeing Muslims on Thai television is rare, which I will get into more in the postscript.)

So we have: MANY CULTURES MIXING OVER MANY GENERATIONS. Migratory patterns intertwining. Indications of physical and emotional movement. And even though, and even DESPITE, these cultures mixing, we ALSO HAVE an OVERARCHING message of old-fashioned customs and ways of living that dominate the lives of the children in the show -- ESPECIALLY Teh. Teh and Oh-aew -- literally, their NAMES reference places ELSEWHERE than Phuket and Thailand. Phuket’s old-fashioned roots. Teh’s mom SELLS a dish that comes from somewhere else (the Hokkien Chinese population mostly hails from Fujian, China, as its origin).

What happens with migration and immigration? Cultures collide and combine -- social mores and expectations change -- one’s standards of HOW TO LIVE ONE’S LIFE changes.

Teh and Oh-aew, during the entire series, are facing a moment in time where THEIR lives, THEIR cultures, THEIR micro-interactions WITH THEIR cultures, ARE GOING TO CHANGE, definitively, by way of their burgeoning same-sex relationship. Teh and Oh-aew are already different in Thailand by way of their cultural backgrounds, as I’ve established -- and now, with a potential public revelation of their relationship, will they be even more different. And their families -- especially Teh’s mom, but Oh-aew’s family as well -- are going to collide with the very PRESENT present vis à vis their boys and their love.

As this happens with migration and immigration, CHANGE WILL HAPPEN vis à vis Teh and Oh-aew’s queer revelations as well.

Boss focused on the aspects of Phuket that were anchors to the culture that Teh and Oh-aew were raised in -- an immigrant culture, a migrant culture from China, that has had a long hold over many, many towns and societies in Thailand. We didn’t see the modern 7-11s that we know are there in Phuket, serving the tourists of these towns.

And, just like the physical dystopia of Dew, and even vis à vis the spiritual practices built into He’s Coming To Me, the slice of Old Town Phuket that we SAW as that anchor was a HEAVY PRESENCE in Teh’s life -- it was PERFECTLY matched with the old-fashioned, conservative ANGER and DISAPPOINTMENT that we saw in Teh’s mom in episode 4, when Teh shares that he dropped out of university for Oh-aew. That anchor, to me, was meant to SMASH into, FEED into Teh’s overwhelming emotionality at his queer revelation, and at the revelation that serving his mother via filial piety would be automatically made more difficult, thus maximizing the impact of his internalized homophobia and his fear of recognizing his love and attraction for Oh-aew.

COUPLE THAT with the previous hints -- and then the SMASHING WRECKING BALL -- of the visual depths of Oh-aew’s own realizations earlier in episode 4, his own internally different place, the way he reveals himself to the world vis à vis the fast Instagram post of him wearing the red bra. And how Teh reacts to it. And how it sets off such an unreal chain of emotional unraveling for Teh, the SECOND of that episode, even before he goes to Bangkok to drop out.

WHOA.

THIS, TO ME WAS FUCKING STUNNING

and very important to me to see as a South/Southeast Asian. WHEW.

And, good lord. How Hoon comes in at the end for Teh. Hoon, the eldest son, the one who has very quietly borne the financial responsibility that his mom, Teh’s mom, too, has placed on Hoon’s shoulders, naturally, through generations of family custom. (Super duper thanks to @lurkingshan for talking me through this in detail with me.)

And Hoon gives his family, his little bro, Teh, comfort. How Hoon says, listen. Mom’s gonna be mad if and when you tell her about Oh-aew and your feelings for me. But guess what? She’s gonna come around. You’re a crybaby, Teh, but I’m here for you.

Hoon knows that Teh’s mom will come around -- because Hoon is also a part of the next generation of change, much like his Thai-Malay-Chinese-Peranakan community before him -- as he brings his Japanese girlfriend home to his mother and brother. (THANK YOU, @wen-kexing-apologist, for pointing this out!)

Teh’s mom, too, will move. She will move from her old-fashioned mindset, to migrate to a new mindset, where she will accept her son. Teh needed to hear that, to know that that movement would be possible.

Just like the movement of the many swirling cultures around Teh and Oh-aew, the hustle of Bangkok before them, nipping at their lives like the ocean to the beach.

What ITSAY captured for me was a cinematic moment of movement on so many levels. It was a pulsating reflection of change. It was meant and designed to insidiously shock viewers out of complacency. Like a beanstalk climbing from the ground, the movement begot movement to these two young men beginning to address and empty themselves of the homophobia that kept them back, Teh especially.

GAH, THEIR MOVING PHYSICALITY, IT NEVER STOPPED -- the end of episode 2 on the boat, the end of episode 3 in Teh’s room, GAWD -- Teh’s ABSOLUTE HORMONAL DRUNKENNESS, Oh-aew’s STARE AFTER STARE AFTER STARE, Oh-aew’s SILENT DEVASTATION AT THE END OF EPISODE 3, the way Teh would nod and FLOP his head uncontrollably in desire, the nuzzles, the sniffs, the uncontrolled reaches -- GAH. It gives me the shivers.

It was a lot.

ITSAY was just -- y’all know it. It was fantastic. While HCTM was before its time, I feel that ITSAY was RIGHT ON TIME. It brought so many elements of this GORGEOUS, HISTORIC, culturally Southeast Asian experience into the intersection of the queer lens, as well as the *migratory* lens of the Southeast Asian region specifically. It showed us, from a micro-perspective, the very tremendous macro-level implications and pressures of filial piety, of internalized homophobia, of the huge socioeconomic expectations that families have on Asian students to succeed in education, and so much more. IT WAS *DEFINITIVELY INTERSECTIONAL*, MORE SO THAN ANY BL BEFORE ITS TIME.

Yet again, for me, just like Bad Buddy, just like Until We Meet Again, I have another show in my arsenal that makes me proud to be an Asian watching these shows -- and in ITSAY, I feel particularly proud that a slice of my own personal culture, as an Malaysian, made it in there, intentionally. I will FOREVER, and ever, be grateful to ITSAY for that.

-------

I’d like to offer this postscript as a means of making some quick points that @telomeke, @bengiyo, @lurkingshan, and @wen-kexing-apologist shared with me as I was writing this review -- and I thank them all deeply for reading drafts of this post before publication.

1) I was previously unaware of the history and current state of Islamic culture in Thailand until ITSAY and Be My Favorite included women wearing hijabs in their shows. This is an important slice of culture for me to know about, as I’m part-Malaysian, where Islam is the dominant religion. @telomeke shared with me that the majority Muslim population in Thailand is in southern Thailand (although, of course, Muslims live across Thailand), and that there have historically been separatist efforts in those southern provinces that have often led to violence.

There are many reasons why discrimination of Muslims exist in Thailand, as it does around the world, including references to the separatist efforts in the southern provinces. As well, ethnic Thais can trace their heritage back to various towns and communities within China, thus possibly making northern Thailand, with its proximity to China, potentially more lauded in Thai culture, and contributing even more to a perception that southern Thailand, with its Muslim population, as potentially “less desirable.” (And I want to take a second to note @telomeke‘s excellent point to me that “Chinese” as a catch-all word is often incomplete, as Han Chinese make up a sizable portion of Thailand’s population, but as we see in ITSAY, the Hokkien Chinese population also flourishes in certain parts of the country, and there are populations of Teochew and Hakka Chinese as well, as there are in Malaysia.)

All of this combined -- the geographic proximities to China, the places where various populations have settled, from the places that various populations of Thais track their heritages, plus global and/or popular misconceptions and stereotypes of “other” communities -- can contribute to discrimination of Muslims in Thailand. Of course, that is not a universal statement, as we do see Muslims beginning to show up in Thai drama art, which is heartening. To me, it strikes me as more realistic for the region to see Muslims on screen, but I don’t know Thailand well enough to say that for sure (that’s my Malaysian-side talking). I really want to thank @telomeke for taking me on SUCH a deep dive with insight into this part of Thai culture that I think is very necessary and fascinating. (Politics in Thailand is quite complicated at the moment, but at this very second, Thailand’s current Parliament speaker, from the Move Forward party, is Thai Muslim, with a Malay Muslim name -- Wan Muhamed Noor Matha. Very cool, but this is going to change soon, as Move Forward will make way for another political party to take control of the government.)

2) If you know me well enough, I cannot leave food well enough alone in our wonderful dramas (exhibit A: Moonlight Chicken and khao man gai, exhibit B: coffee/kopi in The Promise, lol), and I want to make sure that we were all aware back in 2020, and/or make you aware now, that Hokkien mee is a VERY regional dish, with styles unique to each town in which it is famous. @telomeke, I know you feel differently, but Hokkien mee from Kuala Lumpur (KL), Malaysia is my.... it’s my heaven, my soul, my heart, HA!

Here’s some linkies to get you educated. And also! Oh-aew prefers his Hokkien mee with rice vermicelli noodles, instead of the usual, thicker egg noodles. You know what I like to do if I see that a stall has the two styles of noodles available: I like to get them mixed together. Hokkien mee, Hokkien prawn mee noodle soup, curry laksa -- I like the best of both worlds of noodles in my bowl. YUM.

Phuket Hokkien mee KL Hokkien mee Penang Hokkien mee (this one is the prawn noodle soup, not the fried noodles -- omfg so good) Singapore Hokkien mee (note the lighter color -- and the m’fing mix of thick and thin noodles, hell yeah!)

(If you made it this far in the ITSAY review, I have an easter egg for you. Guess what the Malay name is for rice vermicelli noodles? Bee hoon or mee hoon.

Hoon and Teh, two Malay names: thin noodles and tea. What Teh’s mom serves at her stall, and what Teh and Oh-aew represent, symbolically, by names and their noodle preferences, as a pairing. AND! @telomeke gave me one more easter egg! Teh O is a popular way to order tea in Malaysia and Singapore. It’s black tea with sugar, no milk. Another pairing reference. ITSAY never stopped with all the layered references!)

[WHEW! What a ride. Thanks to all y’all who held me down during my losing-it liveblogging of ITSAY. More to come when I get to Last Twilight in Phuket and I Promised You The Moon.

Next week, I’ll release my review of YYY into the wild -- listen, honestly. Yes, chaos, confusion, all of it. But I am not writing this show totally off. There was definitely stuff in it to chew on. And: POPPY RATCHAPONG. And Pee Peerawich. The acting was actually stacked on this show. There’s stuff! More soon.

And I also finished Manner of Death, so that review will drop in two weeks. I LOVE MAXTUL. UNABASHEDLY. Yes, I know I’m years late, yes, I know Tul is retired, sobs. Let me live my 2021 dreams! These guys are so good together, and MoD was fuckin’ great.

I have so much good stuff on the way: I’m fully in my ATOTS rewatch, and I’ve added 55:15 Never Too Late, very specifically its BL storyline. I may not give 55:15 a full review because I’ll fast-watch the rest of it, but: Khao, come to me, boo-boo! I have an INSANE August ahead of me as I’ll be moving in a month (GAH), but hopefully this schedule won’t fall back too much.

Status of the listy! Hit me up if you have feedback!

1) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here) 2) Make It Right (2016) (review here) 3) SOTUS (2016-2017) (review here) 4) Make It Right 2 (2017) (review here) 5) Together With Me (2017) (review here) 6) SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS (2017-2018) (review here) 7) Love By Chance (2018) (review here) 8) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) (no review) 9) He’s Coming To Me (2019) (review here) 10) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) and Our Skyy x Kiss Me Again (2018) (review here) 11) TharnType (2019-2020) (review here) 12) Senior Secret Love: Puppy Honey (OffGun BL cuts) (2016 and 2017) (no review) 13) Theory of Love (2019) (review here) 14) 3 Will Be Free (2019) (not a BL or an official part of the OGMMTVC watchlist, but an important harbinger of things to come in 2019 and beyond re: Jojo Tichakorn pushing queer content in non-BLs) (review here) 15) Dew the Movie (2019) (review here) 16) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) (review here) 17) 2gether (2020) and Still 2gether (2020) (review here) 18) I Told Sunset About You (2020) 19) YYY (2020, out of chronological order) (review coming) 20) Manner of Death (2020-2021) (not a true BL, but a MaxTul queer/gay romance set within a genre-based show that likely influenced Not Me and KinnPorsche) (review coming) 21) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here) 22) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake Of Rewatching Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (watching) 23) Lovely Writer (2021) 24) Last Twilight in Phuket (2021) (the mini-special before IPYTM) 25) I Promised You the Moon (2021) 26) Not Me (2021-2022) 27) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here) 28) 55:15 Never Too Late (2021-2022) (not a BL, but a GMMTV drama that features a macro BL storyline about shipper culture and the BL industry) 29) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) and Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (2023) OGMMTVC Rewatch 30) Secret Crush On You (2022) [watching for Cheewin’s trajectory of studying queer joy from Make It Right (high school), to SCOY (college), to Bed Friend (working adults)] 31) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here) 32) KinnPorsche (2022) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake of Re-Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist 33) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here) 34) GAP (2022-2023) (Thailand’s first GL) 35) My School President (2022-2023) and Our Skyy 2 x My School President (2023) 36) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here) 37) Bed Friend (2023) (tag here) (Cheewin’s latest show, depicting a queer joy journey among working adults)]

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doyou000me · 3 months

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Fandom Peeps to Get to Know Better:

Tagged by @lurkingshan - thank you for the tag!

3 Ships You Like:

Luca and Vincenzo. They're my rare pair hell ship and I'll keep it afloat singlehandedly if I have to. Luckily I don't, because there's two of us holding up the fort on Ao3, and @ristique-xy and I are basically feeding each other at this point.

For those of you who haven't seen it, Vincenzo is a Korean drama from 2021. Vincenzo is the main character and Luca has like 5-10 minutes of screen time in the entire series. Nothing can convince me that they're not murderous lovers for life.

Yoh and Mizuki from My Personal Weatherman. I watched it, moved on, and then was reminded of it after a certain picture and discussion with @candidamay, which made me go back and rewatched MPW and now I'm trying to write a fic for them. It is resisting me but I shall employ stubbornness and persevere.

Kinnporsche. Again, I watched the show when it came out and moved on. Now incredible fanfics (go read Bad Bet by @luckydragon10 and The Power In The Taking by @iffervescent. Both are excellent and very NSFW - proceed with caution and heed the tags) and tumblr in general are slowly making me slide down the slippery slope into the fandom. Can't say I'm putting up any resistance. The Kinnporsche plotbunnies are breeding in my already overpopulated head.

Honorable mentions: PayuRain and PrapaiSky. Need I say more?

First Ship Ever:

My first ship must be something like 15+ years ago, so I really don't remember. Also, I don't think I've ever been big on exclusively shipping one pair of characters, so OTPs aren't really my thing. I tend to pick one favourite character and then ship them with pretty much any other character depending on what dynamic I want in the moment. I still do, but now I've started entertaining the idea of just throwing them all together in one big poly relationship.

Last Song You Heard:

Wonder by The Rose has been playing on and off in my head the last few days

youtube

Favorite Childhood Book:

The Redwall books by Brian Jacques.

Currently Reading:

Nothing. I tend to read in short, intense bursts (like a book/long fanfic in 1-2 days), and then I read nothing for a while.

Currently watching:

Love is Better The Second Time Around

Deep Night The Series

Bingeing:

Bloodhounds (rewatch with a friend)

Sandman (watching with a friend)

Currently consuming:

Yoghurt and musli with banana. It's breakfast.

Currently craving:

Juice.

Tagging @ristique-xy @functionalasfuck, @cryingatships, @candidamay, @7nessasaryevils because I'm curious about what's going on in your heads! Do it if you feel like it, ignore it if you don't :)

#tag game #kinnporsche #my personal weatherman #vincenzo #fanfics #Youtube

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cornyonmains · 2 years

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Guys, when I tell you I've been OBSESSING over the interplay between the phrases 'his beloved son' and 'history is written by the victor' know that I mean it. And here's why.

For a long, long time, I've been trying to figure out what Tankhun's piece on the chessboard is. It just seemed to ridiculously simple to make him the rook and doesn't line up with the other long range attackers Korn placed on the board. Pete as bishop and Porsche as queen were both instrumental in Korn's plot against the minor family, hence their status as long range attackers. Tankhun won't even leave the house, which takes me back to that fucking dialogue, because it stuck in my over-analyzing craw.

Now, there's a few things in this exchange that jumped out to me, with the first being Tankhun's face when he uttered the words 'his beloved son'.

My horny on main masses of the KP fandom, does this look like the face of a son celebrating a victory with his father? Or is it the face of a man celebrating a victory against his father?

Well, I know I've got my opinion, so buckle in kids. It's about to be a ride.

The next thing worth pointing out is our jump to Korn's room, where if we follow the established pattern of green meaning danger, we're about to get ourselves some pretty heavy-handed messaging:

Now, a few things happened in this scene. The first is that Korn responded with 'History is only written by the victor'. He didn't say victors, as in the plural, he said VICTOR. I actually tried to include this photo with the words, but for some reason Tumblr decided to scoot them all to the right in this very unsightly way, but what's important is we have a visual of what's happening in the background.

You see the green Mr. Belvedere era lamp casting an eerie green glow on that bronze statuette of the violinist? You know who else played the violin? Kinn, in the Filmania version of KinnPorsche. Also pictured are the two fighting fish housed in completely unacceptable bowls, which is really going to play into the symbolism of where Korn FUCKED UP as I continue this long winded and convoluted rant.

Now something we've all been asking is why these bodyguards never wear bulletproof vests, why they're given all this training, all this great equipment, but no safety gear. Well, if Korn's staying true to his 'survival of the fittest' philosophy, the idea that competition breeds strength, then it makes sense he'd only want to keep the bodyguards most capable of survival around. And THIS is where we see Korn's first real weakness as a strategist.

The thing about 'survival of the fittest' is that people don't understand that it doesn't mean the survival of the biggest bads of the animal world. And if you doubt my word, may I present exhibit A of this desperate misunderstanding of that concept made manifest:

Like seriously? How do these dorks exist?

And the answer is because they adapted traits that would allow them to best REPLICATE in nature, not conquer it.

So with all this in mind, doesn't it stand out to you that Tankhun's bodyguards are really the only scarce few to survive? That Tankhun has a care for keeping them safe and alive? He clearly demonstrated this in his own way with Pete. There are subtle moments, subtle indications, that he's in fundamental disagreement with his father's philosophy.

Something else that stuck in my head was how quick and seamlessly he brought up his brothers with Chay, even going so far as to offer a visual aid, which most people don't do when they mention they have siblings. I think Tankhun knew about Kim and Chay, and that blowing up Kim's spot was a calculated move. And why was it calculated?

Because I think Tankhun knows that Korn wants Kim to take over the main family. That Korn has a deranged philosophy of pitting the family against one another to breed the strongest possible leaders for his empire, and that Kinn's life is in mortal fucking danger, for the crime of caring about his brothers enough to step up and do a job they didn't want to do. I think Tankhun knew Korn faked his death and was using it not only to draw out gun, but to get Kinn out of the way as well. Korn drove a wedge between him and Porsche to separate them, I think Korn was the one who told Kim where Chay was to keep him out of the final showdown, and I think he did that specifically to keep Kim from protecting Kinn, and Tankhun KNEW this.

But the thing about survival of the fittest is that while Korn might be a psychopath, his kids aren't. Korn's biggest weakness is he couldn't replicate himself in his sons, and that's why Tankhun sent him that text. He was telling his father, "You're the one who's weak. You're the one whose being is not worth replicating. Your lack of love is your weakness and I'm going to show you why."

Tankhun knows so much more than he lets on, and that's when it hit me. Tankhun isn't any piece at all. Tankhun is the invisible player on the other side of the board that Korn's REALLY playing against, but he's out to save all the pieces he captures.

Meanwhile, while the fish in separate bowls may be symbolic of a lull in the fighting, there's still two fish left, so Korn's giving them a break while he plots his next move. The trouble is, much like fish living in two separate tanks, raised to kill each other, his ideas are never going to breed, and that is where Korn's fundamental understanding of survival of the fittest being about strength rather than replication is going to fuck him over.

#kinnporsche #tankhun theerapanyakul #vegaspete #kimchay #thai bl #kinnporsche meta #After typing all this out it feels like my brain is a giant ball of spiders

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snarkspawn · 10 months

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Ok, So I adore your KenBig art even though I have absolutely zero idea of what the fandom is about haha, would love to hear more about them because I can tell you're so passionate.

Thank you so much!

I am !! Very Passionate about them yes adhjfkshjks let me try to break them down for you without making it a 3 hour TED talk lmao (no promises)

So they're two minor side characters from the Thai bl series KinnPorsche, also known as The Gay Mafia Show. At the beginning of the series Big is the head bodyguard for Kinn, who he is secretly (and quite hopelessly) in love with and who is the heir to the family's mafia empire. He is Loyal with a capital L, fiercely protective of Kinn, a little (a lot) pathetic in his devotion and quite frankly a bit of a dick. Ken is just Ken his best friend, also a bodyguard for the Main Family and also a bit of a dick. He's from Australia originally and brings us delightful iconic phrases like "nice one, loser" and "are you fucking dumb, bro". Also, pineapple boxer briefs. You mostly see the two of them together and when they show up it's usually to be a bitch and/or to bully Porsche, who is the other main character and love interest for Kinn (hence the name of the show).

They're terrible people is what I'm saying. But then again so is almost everyone else on the show lmao it's the mafia ok!!

It's never explicitly stated in the show but we see other bodyguards room together (namely Porsche and Pete) so the widely accepted headcanon is that Ken and Big are roommates (oh my god they were roommates etc etc) and just because I live for this kind of thing I have convinced myself (and others, apparently! through the power of art) that while Big is hopelessly in love with Kinn (canon), Ken is hopelessly in love with Big (canon in my heart). It's about the pining and the tragedy and a secret third thing (jealousy) for me

Well. I don't want to spoil too much in case you're ever planning on watching it but it's kind of important for them, so ... towards the end of the show Big ends up sacrificing himself for Porsche (or rather, for Kinn's happiness) and dies not knowing that Ken is the mole they've been searching for and is actually working for the Minor Family (so, for Kinn's cousin and uncle who are the main villains in the series). But Ken is killed as well, at roughly the same time just at a different place and at the hand of his actual employer Gun, so they both end up dead.

Which, you know, I personally think is unacceptable because I love them and don't want it to end there, so most (but not all) of my art is set in an AU that I brainstormed with my partner @pharawee in which they both survive and then have to deal with the consequences of their actions (which is absolutely delicious to me because man!! You have Big who is so desperately loyal but has been kind of struggling to find his place now that Porsche is there, and Ken who betrayed everything Big held dear but !! Is also his best friend!!! But is he really? Has he ever really been his friend at all?? And if Ken is a traitor what does that make him who has been sharing everything with him?? Bonus points since Ken is in love with him and never wanted to betray Big personally. So much potential for angst I am telling you, it's a feast), and then eventually they find comfort in each other and carve out their own path. If you're interested you can read the beginning on ao3.

In other headcanons there's been a Thing going on between them all along and sometimes they still die. Or they don't but everything is still fucked up. Either way it's all good and I'm here for all of it hehe

So this is shaping up to turn into that 3 hour TED talk after all which is why I'll stop here, but if you have literally any other questions or are interested in hearing more I would be prepared to go on for hours lmao sorry (but not really).

#replies #elleweird #kenbig #kinnporsche #look the show is really good #and kinn and porsche's story is genuinely worth watching on its own #but I'm a sucker for both loyal lapdog characters AND traitors. AND pining idiots too actually #so it's no wonder really that I latched onto these two minor side characters lmao they were made in a lab for me specifically #especially since they go so well together even in the show. and the tragedy of it all you know #we don't see enough of them but that just means that ... we don't see enough of them !! if you know what I mean #anything is possible! we don't KNOW what these two are up to while everything else is going on #we read between the lines here in the land of denial #anyway I'll shut up now I promise

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blackwatervial · 10 months

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The Pete Show.

For my rewatch of The Pete Show (sometimes and more uncommonly known as KinnPorsche The Series La Forte), I will be noting down time stamps in which the main character Pete (from the Pete Show) makes an appearance. I will also, as a little bonus, add appearances of his romantic interest “Vegas”. Today:

Episode 5

Episode 5 has one of the side characters called Porsche (the tall, tit-obsessed guy) going through a little crisis at 16:50. Pete, kind as he is, becomes emotional-support Pete. He misunderstands some things, but that's fine. He's just too innocent to deal with Porsche's love-drama

I wish I had an an emotional-support Pete.

At the 20:00 time stamp, Pete is out partying again, which means we get to see another of his black-and-white party outfits! Also, something I forgot to mention before because they are a well-loved and often-mentioned staple in the Pete fandom: Hoop earings. They're the first instance that really make you realise: Yes. Pete is his own person. He has a preferences, things he likes, a life beyond the family. He likes black/white shirts and hoop earings, probably puts them on and thinks 'I might not be special, but I like how these look on me.' Pete, my boy, I love you and you look great with earrings.

Minute 23:30 sees the return of Vegas, Pete's love interest whose current vision is very Porsche-focussed, which is incredibl dumb, but! It allows a fan favourite to make a reappearance! Blurry foregroud Pete!

Next, at 41:20, Kinn comes to visit Pete and get relationship advice - about Porsche! Everyone only ever cares about Porsche, wtf! Pete helps, of course, because he's kind like that, but it doesn't change the fact that the Pete of this episode doesn't pass the bechdel test! Not once does he appear or talk without it being about Porsche. CALLOUT POST FOR EPISODE 5!!!

Previous Pete Show Posts

#The Pete Show #kprewatch2023 #I missed one day because I had to play DnD

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fawndlyvenus · 6 months

Text

So, I want to share something that’s been sitting in my brain since KinnPorsche the Series aired. I’m a person who loves seeing colors and their meanings in the media I consume, as well as seeing how those colors connect to characters and become like a calling card for them. And oh boy does KPTS do that often. And one thing I’ve seen over and over again is that when Pete is on screen, – and somehow Vegas is involved – the color green appears.

In either lighting, clothing, and/or background items/decorations. And yes, green lighting is shown in scenes where neither is involved, or just Vegas, but it’s most common with Pete.

The meal that Vegas barges in on at the main home where Pete is present? Green lighting.

Pete in the car with the condoms and Vegas? Green lighting.

Pete snooping in the minor home and getting caught? Green shutters and Vegas in a green robe.

Pete being tortured? Green lighting.

Pete in the safe house? Green lighting.

Pete afterwards in the tub after his escape? Green lighting.

Vegas when he is pretty much confessing to Porsche about his feelings for Pete and swearing he’ll keep him safe no matter what? Green silk shirt.

Now, I know what you’re saying, “This sounds almost like Vegas is the green color.” Or “Well green can mean this thing, so it’s not really connected to Pete.” And yes, you are probably correct, but this is where it gets interesting. (Also this is just my personal take. So anything else is also valid.)

We know how Pete is as a character, right? Well look at what we find when we look at the color green:

“Green is a very down–to–earth color. It can represent new beginnings and growth. It also signifies renewal and abundance. Alternatively, green can also represent envy or jealousy, and a lack of experience. In spiritual terms, the color green implies beginnings, new growth, vibrant health, and other ideas connected with life, rebirth, and renewal.”

Now, does some of that sound familiar? These are all things that you can tie to Pete. Down-to-earth, lack of experience (you all know), beginnings, new growth, rebirth/renewal, and even envy or jealousy (from what I’ve seen people talk about how Pete felt about Porsche at certain points.) These are parts of Pete and his journey throughout KPTS.

Even more interesting is when you look into green in terms of love:

“What does the color green mean in love?

Green is the color of the heart chakra, symbolizing love to others, forgiveness, compassion, understanding, transformation, warmth, sharing, sincerity and devotion.”

Now tell me that isn’t Pete’s love for others, but especially Vegas. That’s basically how Pete loves Vegas down to the letter in the series.

But let’s also look at Vegas while we’re here. So I know most of the fandom pins Vegas’ color as red (I do too) and when you go back and look at certain scenes (the torture and safe house scenes for example) you see both colors. And the show almost always seems to add the red once Vegas enters, and even frames them accordingly to their colors. So of course we have to look at that.

Now what’s interesting is red and green are opposites, yet complimentary colors on the color wheel. One could almost say two things that are the same yet different. (Yes, I am implying Vegas and Pete being similar, yet different right now.) But let’s take an even closer look at the colors and what they represent when compared to each other:

“Red is a color of vigor and energy. It represents passion, urgency and grabs instant attention. It can also cause you to feel hunger, which is why it is used in food and beverage logos.” Now who does this sound like? Grabs instant attention, vigor and energy, but above all else causing you to feel hunger?

“Since red is the color of blood, it has historically been associated with sacrifice, danger, and courage. Modern surveys in Europe and the United States show red is also the color most commonly associated with heat, activity, passion, sexuality, anger, love, and joy.” And now we bring blood, danger, sacrifice, passion, sexuality, anger, love, and joy into the mix as well? Seems pretty spot on with Vegas.

“Green, on the other hand, is a color of peace, rejuvenation, nature, cleanliness, and fertility.” So when compared to red, green is its opposite: bringing peace, a rebirth of some sorts, and cleanliness (like washing away the sins of your past perhaps?). But also note how some similarities still are there.

Now one last look at the colors. I feel like this one is the big kicker for these two, and really sells Pete as green, and Vegas as Red: “Green speaks to our desire to foster understanding and acceptance between people and to see the potential value and goodness of each person. Green does not represent the color of love on the level of passion between two people. Throughout history, red has been the color of passion, romance, and sexual energy.”

That to me is Pete. If nothing else, that is Pete as a character and how you see him in his time at the safe house. He tries over and over to understand Vegas, see the value and goodness in him, as well as acceptance for who he is and of his past. You can even boil it down to just how Pete is as a person and how he loves/cares for people in general.

And when we look at the love on a romantic or just simply passion level, we see how Vegas and Pete are different. Vegas – like most people in his family – loves people to obsession. Once he loves you, he will do anything for you. He cannot and will not let anything or anyone harm Pete. He brings the intensity and sexual energy that we never really get from Pete. Pete loves in a more nurturing and compassionate way. Vegas comes in like a fire, whereas Pete comes in like a gentle rain on a summer day.

But when they two come together (look at me bringing things back around again) they compliment each other, and both take from one another. Pete learns to be more rage and heat. Finds that hunger and passion that he never had before. Finds the love and sexuality that he never explored or was aware of in his life.

Vegas cools down some of his heat and rage, and brings in the compassion and understanding of others (even if we only get to see it briefly with people like Porsche and Pete.) And we even see him entering his rebirth right before he gets shot and afterwards. Him finding that peace and devotion. That warmth and his own love that he never had before.

Red and green are two colors that work perfectly (again, in my opinion) for these two as “their colors”, but also to give us more depth and insight into two characters who didn’t get as much time and development as others. Complimentary, yet opposites. The same, yet different. Two people that you would never expect to come together, yet are soulmates through and through for one another.

One ruby heart, now speckled with beautiful emeralds. One lush and green heart, now blooming beautiful red blossoms.

#KPTS meta #KinnPorsche the series meta #color meta #character meta #vegaspete #vegas theerapanyakul #pete phongsakorn #pete saengtham #kinnporsche the series #venus speaks #Legit hope I tagged stuff correctly because this is something I worked hard on to try and make sense #yes this legit has been in my brain since the series hit the air #I have always thought green was Pete’s color and red was Vegas’#so imagine my surprise when I never saw it mentioned and here we are #and I know green may mean something else just as red does/will but again this is my own personal opinion/thoughts #long post

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iamfujoshiwe · 1 month

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VegasPete Rambling

I usually only read Japanese Manga. I even filtered my search to strictly show only Japanese Manga. And out of nowhere I have this urge to try watching Live Action BL Drama I filtered them to Japanese too. But to be honest I'm not fond of Japanese BL Drama. Well maybe my taste is just different from others (I only watched a few of them so who knows). Sometimes the acting is weird. I guess a good comedy/gag in manga is just not translated well enough in live action.

Aaannndd in the middle of searching BL Drama I discovered the fckn "KINNPORSCHE THE SERIES". I saw them a few times on tumblr. Some gifs. Some fangirling posts. I was sceptic about Thai BL. I didn't even know Thai BL exist until now. But I decided to give it a try anyway. And boy do I fell hard. HARD!!! It altered the chemistry in my brain!! KPTS had aired two years ago and I just found it now???? Have I live in the cave all my life????

From ep 1 I immediately fell in love. The acting, the character's chemistry, and everything is so amazing. I didn't sense any awkward acting/dialogue I usually saw in Japanese BL Drama (No offense really, it was just me). I literally stopped reading all my followed BL/Non BL Manga and and even stopped reading the new ones too.

All the time my mind just screaming "WHAT A FINE MAN" everytime Porsche appeared. But for real Apo is soooooo good looking.

And when Kinn appeared I just got distracted by his chest. Sir, buttons exist for a reason you know. What grudge do you have with them? (Not that I mind of course). Mile is born to play Kinn.

Then I met VegasPete couple. Let me tell you, when I have obsesssion I really do obsess them to oblivion. Having tunnel vision about them. VegasPete takes the cake.

At first I have this thought: Every actor in KPTS is so good looking so why this vegas character is… not as good looking as them? (Yeah I want to kill my past self for that).

I have this funny feeling about thai actor's voice. Maybe because Thai language is a foreign language to me. I don't hear them often, as opposed to english and japanese (and my main language of course). That's one of the reason why I filtered my search to just Japanese BL Drama. But Vegas' voice OMG. I adore his voice so much. And Bible speaking english is just * CHEF'S KISS * I melted everytime I listen to his voice. BIBLE SPEAKING ENGLISH IS A GIFT TO HUMANITY!! AND THAT HUMANITY IS ME!!!

When VegasPete plot took off, my focus immediately shift to them (I am sorry Kinn and Porsche). I can't count how many times I rewatched their scenes.

I definitely have to include Pete's cry in Yok's bar (when he met vegas after he had ran away from safehouse) and swimming pool (after Vegas got shot). Such a raw emotion. 100 point for Build! I come to love him because his crying voice lol.

Vegas and Pete easily become my favorites. So naturally I have to search for their actor right? And thus began my search for Bible and Build…..

ONLY FOR MY HEART TO BE CRUSHED! MY SHIP HAD SUNK ALREADY!

Build's scandal on his old socmed post? His scandal with Poi? I don't really mind. But Build talking bad about Bible? Yeah my heart couldn't take it. It's in pieces (In a way I'm glad because when all the chaos took place I haven't entered the fandom yet so I never encounter their fan's toxicity). But I respect their decision to go their own way. I know it's not healthy for them to continue working together. So yeah I am sad but their mental health is more important.

Soooooo now I'm still deep in VegasPete swamp (with occasional breaking down when I remember BibleBuild). I choose to sink in VegasPete fanfictions on ao3. And woah there are soooo many amazing author there. Their fics are spectacular! I can't thank them enough for doing God's work creating those holy VegasPete fics.

Oh and anyway I read VegasPete novel too. But I don't like it…. their character are too different from the show. Honestly fanfictions are waaay better…. KinnPorsche novel too. One chapter and I was like nope, I couldn't bring myself to read further. End of story.

And that's why as of now I still can't read manga or watch any other BL Drama. Damn VegasPete! (Affectionate). My waiting list are Not Me The Series and Last Twilight. I hope I'll collect enough braincell soon so I can start watching them. There are so many BL and Non BL manga I haven't continue reading.

#kinnporche the series #vegaspete #vegas kornwit theerapanyakun #pete phongsakorn saengtham #vegas theerapanyakul #pete phongsakorn #bible wichapas #kinn anakinn theerapanyakul #porsche pachara kittisawasd

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bengiyo · 10 months

Note

So I’ve got some thoughts wracking around my brain and I’d love to hear your thoughts. Apologies ahead of time because this is long.

Some background: I’ve been watching BL for about 2 years, consuming content from BL fandom on Tumblr for about a year, and listened to you & Nini’s pod since it came out. So I know a big trend and exciting push is workplace BL and more adult BL characters and relationships. I think it’s really interesting that so many in the fandom favor this trend because I struggle with the presence of the typical BL tropes in stories with queer adults because I see many of the tropes as inherently childish I guess? I mean I think as we all watch BL we have to hold a suspension of disbelief watching two adolescent or fully grown men live out these silly tropes (e.g white towel bath, tripping and falling, etc. (we all know’em by now)). I think that’s why I typically lean toward high school and even college settings because it’s easier to imagine characters in that age range engaging with these types of tropes.

I think the same goes for certain genres too. For example: I had a hard time enjoying KinnPorsche because tonally it was hard to reconcile one scene of rampant violence/death and the next scene Kinn & Porsche walking in the park engaging in all the silly tropes. The romance orientation of BL (to me) does not mix well with Mafia or horror genres because the presence of these tropes create such a weird tonal shift throughout the narrative.

I think I primarily have this trouble with Thai BLs (maybe also Taiwan they just don’t produce nearly as many shows so less to compare) because 1) the specific campy thai style of acting and 2) the fact that Thai BLs pack so many of the same tropes in their shows.

Now all that being said: I’m loving Law of Attraction and I’ve been thinking a lot about why it works for me. So far I don’t think there have been nearly as many tropes as some shows but I also think the melodrama of it all helps too. I mean both Charn and Tinn are very archetypal and Charn is almost a caricature of the archetype. It’s ridiculous and highly entertaining and still works as a BL for me.

Ok all that being said (I’m sorry this is so long) specifically with workplace/adult Thai BL: I see it going one of two main ways to continue to work (for me at least) while they also try to explore different settings, genres, and stories. Either 1) LoA route where it’s very dramatic and the characters are more caricatures and it’s not to be taken too seriously (but it’s still fun and entertaining and has some good themes) or 2) they phase out a lot of the tropes and depict more realistic queer characters in adult relationships. If they go route #2 wouldn’t that just lead to inherently more queer shows? From what I understand many define BL by the inclusion of these tropes and centering the romance in the narrative but I just can’t see how these aspects can continue to exist in more adult oriented stories? Do you think new tropes will emerge in these “office BLs” that will make it continue to “feel” BL without it feeling queer? Don’t get me wrong I’m queer and I love that it seems to be going in that direction but I’m also interested in the history/origins of the Thai BL industry and how they will likely try to continue to please their original base (cis het women) with more mature stories and settings without losing the essence of BL and moving more toward queer shows. Would love to hear any and all your thoughts. I’m thinking so much more about these topics hearing you and Nini on the pod so thank you for fostering these conversations!!

There's a lot going on here, so I'm going to try to pull out some specific things to interrogate.

I know a big trend and exciting push is workplace BL and more adult BL characters and relationships. I think it’s really interesting that so many in the fandom favor this trend because I struggle with the presence of the typical BL tropes in stories with queer adults because I see many of the tropes as inherently childish I guess? I mean I think as we all watch BL we have to hold a suspension of disbelief watching two adolescent or fully grown men live out these silly tropes (e.g white towel bath, tripping and falling, etc. (we all know’em by now)). I think that’s why I typically lean toward high school and even college settings because it’s easier to imagine characters in that age range engaging with these types of tropes.

I'm entering my mid-30s. I'm a bit burnt out on the high school and college stuff. I also work in an office tower as part of a large bureacracy. You'd be surprised how much petty office drama looks like the same shit you dealt with in schools. I also like the notion that even adults can enjoy some of the silly first moments. I dont' like the idea that either we settle down with the first boy we met in high school or college or we just don't exist.

Also, there are lots of tropes entering BL from the genre-blending that I think some viewers just don't recognize. Part of why Korean BL is so important is because quite a few viewers are versed in the narrative structures and story beats of a typical kdrama, and their commentary has been interesting as we get more Korean offerings. I often find that people miss out on the cues in Japanese shows because they didn't grow up on Japanese media like I did.

For example, I was commenting to NiNi last night when we were recording for Tokyo in April is... that one of the things I like so much about second chance romance in BL is the different built-in presumptions compared to straight people. When straight people have a second chance, it's usually because one of them broke up with the other. The relationship ended because of their internal problems. In gay second chance, the relationship was often taken from them by homophobia. In Our Dating Sim, internalized homophobia made Wan run away. Same in Individual Circumstances or The Promise. In Tokyo in April is... the boys are separated by their parents. Their relationship ended against their own wills, so the reunion and second chance is different because of their queer context.

Re: KinnPorsche: The romance orientation of BL (to me) does not mix well with Mafia or horror genres because the presence of these tropes create such a weird tonal shift throughout the narrative.

I don't know. History3: Trapped exists. Tropes are storytelling tools built upon familiar beats that audiences recognize. The pinky touch doesn't belong to BL. It grew out of queer media as a way for boys to privately have a moment of intimacy. Tropes are not inherently good or bad. What matters is how they're used. Do they support the narrative and themes, or do they get in the way?

A lot of folks do not like the Blushing Maiden trope. I am variable. It matters how it's used. I think it makes sense for Pharm in Until We Meet Again. I think it makes some sense for Minato in Minato's Laundromat. I don't really like it in Heartstopper 2. Elle gets a Heel Pop in Heartstopper 2, and it's what she deserves!

As for a mafia story, putting a romance story in a crime drama often is used to ramp up the sense of tragedy because the romance can't succeed inside the rules of the crime world.

specifically with workplace/adult Thai BL: I see it going one of two main ways to continue to work (for me at least) while they also try to explore different settings, genres, and stories. Either 1) LoA route where it’s very dramatic and the characters are more caricatures and it’s not to be taken too seriously (but it’s still fun and entertaining and has some good themes) or 2) they phase out a lot of the tropes and depict more realistic queer characters in adult relationships.

I don't like binaries like this. If you had asked me at 15 when I started watching Degrassi and then sneaking around to watch other gay shit if we'd have what we call BL now, I would not have believed you.

As for Laws of Attraction, I don't know that calling the characters caricatures is accurate either. They're behaving under the surreal rules of a lakorn, a telenovela, or a soap opera. There are exaggerations in the characters, but they all make sense and are obeying the rules of their world.

As for the question about BL getting more gay, @absolutebl has covered this already. Audiences do not care about gay people. Some of the conventions of surreal BL or the bubble are why they signed up. People did not watch POSE, they do not watch stuff like For the Boys, I haven't seen anyone on Tumblr talk about Sort Of, we didn't get an explosion of new gay shit after Moonlight or Call Me By Your Name. All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us.

I think there is room for BL to genre blend and play with broader romance or dramatic themes, à la La Pluie or Moonlight Chicken. However, I'll remind you that folks don't always like that (see I Promised You The Moon).

I think the biggest thing to recognize is that, while BL does have some of its own tropes from origin yaoi or modern Thai BL, BL shares a lot of DNA with romance as a whole. Don't get lost in the sauce of the classification war. Watching BL to check off boxes about what's recognized or not as the primary goal feels like a distraction.

Besides, if you're enjoying Laws of Attraction, that show has done nothing new. It's literally just using familiar lakorn and romance beats. Humans have been telling stories for at least 20,000 years. It doesn't have to be new to be good. It just needs to be done well.

#Ben writes #answered #bl series #thai bl #japanese bl #korean bl #taiwanese bl #Filipino bl

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yujeong · 4 months

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It isn't always easy to recognize how much you're loved, not until something happens to remind you of it. Not until the people that love you take the chance to show you in the most beautiful way possible. Today is my birthday. Some of my friends decided to write fics for me because of it. I want to repay them by sharing their work with you, so that you can check them out for yourselves and see their immense talent first hand.

Starting with this amazing fic by @mightymightygnomepriest, who decided to quench my thirst for VegasPete somno in the hottest way possible. I loved every line written in this, Vegas' POV was spectacularly explored and it includes VP's codependent issues superbly, which is one of the main reasons VP fans love them so much in the first place. If you want something hot and with VP's characterization on point, check it out.

This lovely Gen fic written by @tsttoain made me so happy, I can't even explain it properly. Pete's grandma and Macau are both beloved characters by the fandom, and this little fic gave me so much I didn't know I wanted but desperately needed. It was sweet and sad and perfect, and I can't believe I was gifted something so wonderful. I'm sure you'll love it too if you decide to give it a chance.

Last, but certainly not least, this phenomenal Porsche(&)Pete fic written by my amazing friend @wretchedamaranth managed to bring so many emotions out of me. It rendered me breathless and teary-eyed. They captured the relationship between Porsche and Pete, this secret third thing we're both huge fans of, so fucking well that all I can do is stare in awe over their talent. This is their first fic in general, first kpts fic in particular, so please show them your love in the form of kudos and comments. I'm so proud of them for venturing into the realms of writing. They deserve all the praise. Thank you so much everyone ❤️ I love you all and I wish I could express how grateful I am for your existence in my life better. Unfortunately, these sort of rambling thoughts will have to suffice for now haha.

#I am not at all emotional over this #I also had so many people wish me Happy Birthday which is also an amazing gift to receive #people remembering the day you came to be a presence in this world #signaling that they're thinking about you that they remember a detail about you #it can be addictive honestly #plsplspls check these fics out all of them are so good #I'm sure you'll love them #kinnporche the series #vegaspete #pete saengtham #vegas theerapanyakul #macau theerapanyakul #porsche kittisawasd #porschepete #fanfic writing #gift fic

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lonely-tea-drinker · 8 days

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“Kh—what can I get for you, sir?” Pete tried for ignorance, ignoring his heart hammering in his chest as he rounded the counter. What was Vegas doing here? He was supposed to be in Chiang Mai on business, Kinn had specifically verified the man would be far away from Bangkok before placing Pete here undercover. Had their mission been discovered? Pete had been working there for just over three weeks now, gathering as much information as he could from the shop, which in reality was just a front for one of the minor family’s money laundering locations. But Vegas shouldn’t have been back from Chiang Mai for another week—had something gone wrong? “A black coffee, please.” Vegas’s smooth voice cut through Pete’s whirling thoughts. Pete put his best customer service smile on, hoping to any god listening that Vegas didn’t recognize him; after all, they hadn’t seen each other since the last time Vegas had visited the main family, which was almost two years ago. And Vegas always narrowed his eyes like that, no matter who he was talking to… right?

We're back lads! Featuring my attempt at a Vegaspete coffee shop AU, where they both get to be giant nerds about science fiction! Written with love by someone who is also a nerd about science fiction.

I'd argue this could be canon compliant, if you imagine the mission taking place maybe a year or so before Porsche joins the family (until the ending of the fic but we'll pretend that bit doesn't exist for my own sanity).

Maybe this will stay a one shot, maybe it won't! Who knows! Will the rats on the treadmill in my brain finally form a cohesive plotline? It's more likely than you think!

If anyone has any thoughts whatsoever about this please let me know... I'd really love some fandom friends since I'm kind of writing into the void at the moment!

#kinnporsche #kinnporsche the series #vegaspete #vegas theerapanyakul #pete saengtham #kp fics #fanfic #vegaspete fic #my last post got seven whole notes and i kinda feel like a celebrity ngl

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waitmyturtles · 6 months

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Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: The Bad Buddy Rewatch Edition, Part 3a -- BBS and Asian Cultural Touchpoints

[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. Today, I offer the first half of the third (ha!) of five posts on Bad Buddy. I'll look today at themes that myself and fellow Asian fans of Bad Buddy have caught and related to in this wonderful show.]

Links to the BBS OGMMTVC Meta Series are here: part 1, part 2, part 3a, part 3b, and part 4

As a lifelong viewer of Asian dramas, and as an Asian-American myself, I know why I'm drawn to Asian dramas. We all have our reasons for belonging to this widespread fandom, whether you're watching queer or het Asian dramas, consuming Asian music, all of it.

What are my reasons? The first and foremost one is relatability. Especially in Asian dramas, I relate to the spoken and unspoken communication of the dramatic characters as they navigate life's highs and lows. I relate to the way Asian dramatic characters engage with their families, their partners, their children, their colleagues, the world and societies around them. I relate to the ways in which societies are drawn and constructed, to the economic and emotional pressures that characters face. As an American -- I don't fully relate to the majority of experiences that white American characters face dramatically, because I'm not a part of the majority. As an Asian? I get almost all of what Asians are going through in dramatic art (save for, say, Korean or Japanese historicals, ha — but I do indeed get Asian patriarchy and sexism).

I'm not queer -- I am a cishet Asian woman -- but what I appreciate about queer Asian media is, very often, the media's tendency to not be shy about the various and intricate ways that discrimination, sexism, trauma (intergenerational, emotional, etc.), and many more social and emotional phenomena interplay in an individual's life.

When I first watched Bad Buddy, I had the strong sense that what I was watching was incredibly relatable to much of my upbringing and life as a young adult, working out issues vis à vis my family and my eventual partner. Bad Buddy, thematically, captured a tremendous amount of the realities of everyday Asian life for young people.

Bad Buddy exists in the GMMTV bubble of No Homophobia (cc @bengiyo and @lurkingshan, as we have spoken about the GMMTV bubble). However, what Bad Buddy didn't shy away from were explorations of many other social/emotional/cultural themes and frameworks of everyday life, from sexism, to youth bias, to boundaries and enmeshment, and many, many more.

I wrote in my first-ever Bad Buddy thesis that the framework of intergenerational trauma was the main theme I identified -- and identified with -- in the show. But, as I was contemplating writing this series of Bad Buddy meta posts, I wanted to know: what did my fellow Asians pick up in this show that they saw, and that they related to? In other words: what makes Bad Buddy particularly special to Asian fans of the show?

So, I did a thing. I gathered together a few BBS Asian stans, like myself, for a lengthy (and still ongoing!) discussion about what we related to in Bad Buddy. I want to thank, from the bottom of my heart, @telomeke, @grapejuicegay, @recentadultburnout, @neuroticbookworm, and @lurkingshan (who's not Asian, but has Asian relatives, and gets us!) for being up for creating a spontaneous mini-village together to talk Bad Buddy and its inherent Asianness.

It sounds redundant to identify Bad Buddy, a show made by Thais and set in Thailand, as an "Asian" or "Thai" show. It's definitely not a show that steps back to take a look at itself and say, "oh hey, this is really 'Thai,' what we're doing here." When I asked @recentadultburnout directly about what they might have identified as uniquely Thai about Bad Buddy, RAB thought about it and said -- maybe Pat's ranak ek (Thai xylophone). Other shows of Aof Noppharnach's, including He's Coming To Me, Moonlight Chicken, and even the start of Last Twilight, highlight many facets of Thai life, from the spiritual to the everyday-cultural (even Gay OK Bangkok does this a bit, too). But Bad Buddy doesn't really go there by way of overt symbolism and/or specifically Thai spiritual/cultural practice.

The Asianness of Bad Buddy is far more inherent. It is rooted and coded in the way people interact with each other.

An overt example occurs in episode 10, when Dissaya confronts Ming in the Jindapat home, and announces that she will reveal Ming's secret, dropping the effort she has made her entire life to "save face" -- her reputation AND Ming's reputation.

During my first Bad Buddy rewatch, I was so moved in fury by this scene that I had to blog about it as if I had never seen it before. There's so much encapsulated in this moment: the pressure that Dissaya has put on herself to keep the embarrassing secret that she lost a scholarship; the effort she made to keep Ming's theft of the scholarship a secret, to save his face, and the secrets she kept from Pran to save her face, and to keep up the façade of rivalry between the Jindapats and the Siridechawats. She was letting a whole hell of a lot loose in this moment, because the eternal pressure of saving face in Asian societies is, frankly, never-ending.

"Saving face" is an incredibly important notion in many Asian collectivist cultures. Saving face is about an individual or a family projecting an image of calm, cool collectedness and success, in order to not make waves within a collectivist society for any reason. If you are not working to seem like you are going with the flow of life, if you're not keeping up with the Joneses, the Kardashians, whoever -- you are not saving face. If you are in poverty, and are projecting an image of poverty, instead of pretending to be more wealthy than you are -- you are not saving your face or your family's face. If you allow yourself to get publicly defeated -- you are not saving face. Dissaya gave up a lot of her hard-earned reputation in the moment she confessed the truth in front of Pat and Pat's mother.

My Asian friends and I can click wordlessly into understanding the pressure of saving face; say that I didn't get good grades in school? I wouldn't be saving my parents' face. This kind of pressure to keep up with particular social dynamics within and external to family, within Asian societies, is a neverending drumbeat of pressure.

Besides saving face, there are many other Asian cultural touchpoints that were contained within Bad Buddy that my fellow Asian BBS stans and I noted. They include:

1) intergenerational/inherited trauma, 2) the unique nature of secret-keeping in Asian cultures/societies, 3) enmeshed family boundaries, 4) setting up children to compete against each other for the sake of familial pride, 5) patriarchy, sexism, and the reversal of sexism among next generations, 6) the inset/assumed roles of family members based on patriarchy and elder respect, 7) Assumed community within and external to one's family, usually based on where you live and where you go to school, 8) How one's identity is defined based on patriarchy and individualist vs. collectivist cultures, 9) How various cultures within an Asian nation live peacefully (or not) together (for example, what makes Pat and Pran different by way of Pat's Thai-Chinese heritage vs. Pran's ethnic Thai heritage),

and many, many more.

It'll be impossible, even over two posts, to analyze all of these cultural touchpoints, but a few of them engendered quite a bit of conversation among the BBS mini-village that I want to highlight. In this post, I'll focus on the continuation of my first BBS thesis on intergenerational/inherited trauma, the nature of secret-keeping in Asian societies, and will return briefly to the touchpoint of saving face.

One of the most devastating scenes for me in Bad Buddy is in my favorite episode, episode 10, when Pat (after he's learned, throughout the episode, of the extent of the lies that his and Pran's family have shared with their children) confronts his father about his father's demands to literally control Pat's emotions, the way in which Pat related to other people -- specifically Pran. Pat sums up a lifetime's worth of control in one sentence.

@telomeke noted in our ongoing group conversation that this notion of inherited trauma vis à vis Ming is particularly present in Asian societies, not just by way of familial expectation that we, as Asians, embody it and "take it" throughout our generations, as Pat realized up above -- but that ALL family members present are responsible for playing their roles within the framework of the inherited trauma. @telomeke noted in particular that exactly what Pat was doing to hate Pran, FOR his father? That was what Ming HAD to do for MING'S dad, when Ming schemed to get the scholarship from Dissaya. AND, Pat's mother, in consoling Pat, had to play the role of explainer -- which, as we know now, Pat ran away from to meet his beloved Pran on the rooftop before running away to the eco-village.

Pat running away from that moment? That was a huge symbol of the breaking of the inherited trauma that was given unto him by his parents both.

(@telomeke has actually written about their theory about how the Jindapats and Siridechawats ended up living next door to each other -- which seems SO STRANGE on the surface, consider Ming's and Dissaya's boiling hatred for each other -- and the theory links nicely within the framework of inherited trauma. Tel theorizes that Ming's father or grandfather may have actually gifted the house to Dissaya's family as a means of apologizing for Ming's deceit. In which case: the presence of the Siridechawats is a reminder, on an everyday basis, of Ming's folly to steal from Dissaya, which may explain why Ming in particular went so hard on Pat to triumph daily over Pran.)

We as a group unwound quite a bit on the nature of secret-keeping in Asian cultures. We know Bad Buddy relies on this cultural touchpoint at the end of the series: Pran and Pat have a full-fledged and committed relationship as a transparent secret, under the noses of Pat's and Pran's parents.

Secret-keeping....oh, man. I could not have lived a fully authentic life in America if I didn't keep a million secrets from my family while I was living out my own independent choices. I actually, literally, could not have gotten married, because the rule of my household was that I wouldn't date. I would just... get engaged. So I'd get engaged through, what, magic? Match-making? No: I'd have to find my partner through my own battle of social and familial conventions, literally against my family, to get to where I wanted to be in life, which was (gasp) married.

@neuroticbookworm illuminated more on this particularly from our shared Indian lens. She wrote,

Keeping your relationship secret from parents is sooooo ridiculously common in India (and I'm sure we can extrapolate to other Asian countries like Thailand). And the justification the children give themselves is always rooted in how they have a "duty" towards their parents, and that they will reveal their relationship after they have fulfilled their duties.

God, I LOVED that NBW brought up "duty" in this conversation. Because! Assumed within the coded language from Asian parents to children, and vice versa, is a sense that children MUST follow the dictates of their parents. 100%, full-stop.

The duties that NBW clarified in this particular conversation specified life demarcations such as "[w]hen I graduate, I'll tell my parents about my partner," and "[w]hen I graduate and get a job and can financially support myself in life, I'll tell my parents about my partner."

What's coded in these statements is a fear that the children will have to reveal to their parents that they were disobedient in the rules their parents set, that no dating shall occur until the time at which the parents rule it's okay. And at least within Indian frameworks, that period of it being "okay" is, more often than not, the period in which arranged matches are examined. Because, yes, that's still the rule in the high majority of Indian culture.

The revelation of that disobedience? That's bad-news bears. It indicates... everything: a lack of loyalty to the family; a lack of understanding the meaning of a child's role to listen to the parents as the parents are elders and therefore are the moral authority of the household; a lack of self-control (which is a huge deal -- that relates to saving face on behalf of the family); a lack of understanding the morals and ethics of saving oneself, in love and sex, before marriage, etc. Even if a family seems fully progressive on the outside, as an Asian, I'm conditioned to question that progressiveness -- as parents may hold different standards of acceptance for their children vs. other young people.

@telomeke expanded on disobedience for us -- connecting it back to the very important notion of "saving face."

I think there's something quite related to secret-keeping, but it's also to do with the ability of Asians, but also human beings in general, of being able to live with duality in life... and secret-keeping is part of it. This also ties in to the East and Southeast Asian preoccupation with the concept of "saving face" [as noted above]. A lot of families are able to live with the knowledge of dirty secrets, unsavory truths, as long as it's not brought into the light and confronted. I'm constantly reminded of this whenever I rewatch BBS Ep. 12 because it's clear both Ming and Dissaya KNOW their sons are in a relationship but it's not overtly admitted. In that way they (and more Ming I suppose) get to "save face" and not have to deal with the truth that their sons are being disobedient, consorting with the enemy, and because it's not in the open -- there is no dishonor brought to the family and to the elders.

God, I love the way Tel put this. That disobedience on the part of Pran and Pat would actually bring dishonor to their families -- because their families have put SO MUCH EFFORT into building their public AND private enmity their entire lives! It affected Chai's relationship with the families as an employee of both families. EVERYONE AT PAT'S AND PRAN'S SCHOOLS knew the guys were the "legendary rivals." And, of course, by being in rival faculties at the same university, the boys could continue this public enmity as well -- keeping up with the roles that were literally assigned to them by their parents.

If the boys disobeyed, they would bring dishonor to their families. Think about that -- and connect that with the heaviness that Pran walked away with after the rooftop kiss in episode 5, AND the weight of Pran's breakdown at the end of episode 10, when Pat assured him that they would run away together.

No matter what a Western viewer (and maybe even Asian viewers, wanting to see a dismantling of these paradigms) would want Pat and Pran to have by way of full openness of their relationships with everyone in their lives (because, in individualistic cultures, that self-driven openness is a given), Pran and Pat themselves knew that that couldn't be their reality vis à vis the social worlds they belonged to. So they kept their relationship a secret, in the end.

The secret that Pran and Pat keep about their relationship is strategic. It's certainly also a stress point: an older Pat asks an older Pran, at the end of episode 12, if he'll ever be able to walk through the front door of the Siridechawat house.

But this is the compromise -- within the larger-scale culture of secret-keeping in Asian societies, AND the private frameworks of the enmity that Dissaya and Ming established between themselves and their families years and years prior -- that will work best for Pat and Pran to preserve the sanctity of their relationship, which I talked about in part 2 of this meta series.

Pran and Pat do not have to publicly appear disobedient to the demands and pressures of their families. They do not have to make their families engage with each other. They do not have to make their families confront the mistakes that their parents made earlier in their lives. They can protect their families from their private and public follies. They can help their families keep and save face. And by doing all that? They can prevent their relationship from being threatened.

I feel this very deeply in my heart as an Asian-American. For the sake of my American spouse, I wanted to protect him from a lot of these pressures, and so I insisted on keeping a lot of our relationship secret from my folks. If I demanded full-blown, public acceptance from my parents? If I brought my "boyfriend" to parties, and introduced him as such with aunties and uncles -- especially if it wasn't indicated that we'd be permanent one day? Damn. No. I'd be embarrassing my folks, with the aunties and uncles saying to my folks, "dang, you can't control your daughter, huh? You let her do what she wants." That would mean my parents would lose face over their ability to control the lives of their children, and that's no bueno in our cultural terms. It would be on ME, as THEIR child, to uphold THEIR ability to save face, as much as its their own work.

Dissaya refers DIRECTLY to Pran doing this FOR HER when, in episode 10, she asks him, "did you forget to save my reputation?" It's brutal, daily work. And Pran goes BACK to keeping secrets in the end, because it would have been impossible, ultimately, for Dissaya to save face, AND for Pran to save Dissaya's reputation/face, if Pran were out with his relationship with Pat, thus proving his disobedience. It would be -- JUST -- better to keep the secret for all those involved.

As this post has gotten long, I'm going to continue talking more about these touchpoints in a second post. I'm driven to talk about this because I think much of the Western fandom might miss what us Asians are reading into shows like Bad Buddy through this coded language and engagement. I very much posit that Bad Buddy -- while it is first and foremost a queer show, made by queer Asians, about queer young men -- is so relatable to so many of us because we've faced similar struggles of survival, and we've faced threats to the sanctity of the love we have for other people by way of needed to fit into the roles set before us by previous generations.

So! With that, thank you for reading, and see you tomorrow, when I focus on competition, enmeshed family boundaries, patriarchy and sexism in Bad Buddy, and more if I can fit it in!

(Tagging @dribs-and-drabbles, @solitaryandwandering, and @wen-kexing-apologist by request! If you'd like to be tagged, please let me know!)

[Alright! Stay tuned for more, many more ruminations from the BBS Asian station tomorrow!

Here's the status of the Old GMMTV Challenge watchlist. Tumblr's web editor loves to jack with this list, so mosey on over to this link for the very latest version!

1) The Love of Siam (2007) (movie) (review here) 2) My Bromance (2014) (movie) (review here) 3) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here) 4) Gay OK Bangkok Season 1 (2016) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 5) Make It Right (2016) (review here) 6) SOTUS (2016-2017) (review here) 7) Gay OK Bangkok Season 2 (2017) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 8) Make It Right 2 (2017) (review here) 9) Together With Me (2017) (review here) 10) SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS (2017-2018) (review here) 11) Love By Chance (2018) (review here) 12) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) (no review) 13) He’s Coming To Me (2019) (review here) 14) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) and Our Skyy x Kiss Me Again (2018) (review here) 15) TharnType (2019-2020) (review here) 16) Senior Secret Love: Puppy Honey (OffGun BL cuts) (2016 and 2017) (no review) 17) Theory of Love (2019) (review here) 18) 3 Will Be Free (2019) (a non-BL and an important harbinger of things to come in 2019 and beyond re: Jojo Tichakorn pushing queer content in non-BLs) (review here) 19) Dew the Movie (2019) (review here) 20) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) (review here) (and notes on my UWMA rewatch here) 21) 2gether (2020) and Still 2gether (2020) (review here) 22) I Told Sunset About You (2020) (review here) 23) YYY (2020, out of chronological order) (review here) 24) Manner of Death (2020-2021) (not a true BL, but a MaxTul queer/gay romance set within a genre-based show that likely influenced Not Me and KinnPorsche) (review here) 25) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here) 26) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake Of Rewatching Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (re-review here) 27) Lovely Writer (2021) (review here) 28) Last Twilight in Phuket (2021) (the mini-special before IPYTM) (review here) 29) I Promised You the Moon (2021) (review here) 30) Not Me (2021-2022) (review here) 31) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here) 32) 55:15 Never Too Late (2021-2022) (not a BL, but a GMMTV drama that features a macro BL storyline about shipper culture and the BL industry) (review here) 33) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) and Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (2023) OGMMTVC Rewatch (The BBS OGMMTVC Meta Series is ongoing: preamble here, part 1 here, part 2 here, more reviews to come) 34) Secret Crush On You (2022) (on pause for La Pluie) 35) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here) 36) KinnPorsche (2022) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For the Sake of Re-Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist 37) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here) 38) GAP (2022-2023) (Thailand’s first GL) 39) My School President (2022-2023) and Our Skyy 2 x My School President (2023) 40) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here) 41) Bed Friend (2023) (tag here) 42) Be My Favorite (2023) (tag here) 43) Wedding Plan (2023) 44) Only Friends (2023) (tag here)]

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