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#both with akio and touga really
gootrude · 9 months
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imo both answers make sense in different ways, i could see her crush on akio as genuine feelings being used against her or as comphet + being overwhelmed/anxious around him and interpreting that as feelings (also she is being groomed to like him it's very calculated on his end). the only wrong answer here is straight utena
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the-best-bagel · 1 year
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back on my utena bullshit and getting annoyed by ppl reducing her to just a herbo jock like. please remove your horny hat for a sec and think more about the themes of the show outside of lesbianism
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transmascutena · 4 months
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some thoughts on photography and memory in utena:
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on the wall in nemuro memorial hall, there are pictures of real people. i'm not sure who they are, but i assume they're of people involved in making the show. either way, they're obviously not real; in the close-up shots of them, they change into pictures of the black rose duelists and other imagery from the show. i imagine it's there as a fun detail by the creators, but also to show how weird and inconsistent reality itself is in the black rose arc.
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as for the black rose duel images themselves, it's possible that they are literal as i've talked about in a previous post, but what i think is more likely, is that utena noticing them is a visual representation of her connecting the dots of what's really been going on in this arc.
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when mikage brings up the idea of memories and eternity, we see the picture on the wall behind utena, of her at her parents funeral. and behind mikage we see one of his own defining memories.
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a pretty clear line is being drawn between memory and photographs. in fact, memories are so important to mikage that photographs are his black rose duel symbol. it's the one he keeps of mamiya and tokiko, altered to look like anthy's disguise, just like his memories are. through mikage we see both how memories of the past can keep you trapped in it, as well as the malleability of these memories. let's look at everybody else:
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saionji has a framed photograph of him and touga as kids on his desk. he values their friendship, or at least the memory of how it used to be. he idealizes the time touga was less cruel (or maybe just the time saionji wasn't aware of his cruelty.)
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miki doesn't have any literal photographs of kozue or the sunlit garden, though his memories of them are often framed as such. he also keeps a picture of anthy amidst his sheet music. she is his idealized memory now.
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juri has the locket of course, inside of which is a cutout of shiori from a picture captured in the moment that ends up defining their entire relationship. is this the version of shiori that juri idealizes? not really, but she is fixated on her resentment of shiori's percieved cruelty, just not the cruelty of taking the boy away. juri keeps this photograph closer than anybody else does with theirs, but she also keeps it hidden. this could mean she treasures her memories the most out of everyone, and is also the least open about it, although i'm not sure i believe the first part.
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nanami has the photo-album of her and touga; she idealizes her relationship with him, as well as their childhood. when she makes the connection that touga is adopted, the photos are scattered all over her bed, probably to represent her emotional state.
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touga doesn't keep any photographs from what we see, which makes sense with everything we know about him. unlike the rest of the council, he doesn't have any idealized memories of his childhood. but he does use akio's camera, so let's talk about that.
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the camera is, much like the car, a tool that only akio is shown to own (although, wakaba does mention a photography club in episode 34.) like the car, it is used to facilitate his grooming (specifically of touga and saionji when he takes those shirtless pictures with them.) and, also like the car, he offers to lend it to touga, to make him feel more like an equal part of the whole thing. unlike the car though, touga accepts the camera.
the photoshoot scene in episode 37 has a transition where the camera shutter sound effect is played over the previous scene. over the shot of utena and anthy holding hands after confiding in each other about akio. i think it's to show that he's always watching, and that they can never truly be free of him as long as they're in ohtori.
i think it also shows the idea of akio framing the narrative of the show as a whole. he plays a sort of director role in it, in that he directs the events happening, as well as how they're portrayed. it's no coincidence that he is quite literally behind the "camera" in episode 33. like the car, a symbol of akio's power and sexual abuse (which is not-coincidentally also present in all of the photoshoot scenes,) his camera (his narrative, his biased framing of events) is ever-present.
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and then there's the most important photograph in the show, the frame it all ends on. the picture utena and anthy took together is, unlike every other photograph, used as a look into their future. the reason they take it in the first place is because utena realizes she has no photos of anthy, which distresses her, presumably because she worries that their friendship might not last forever, and she wants something to remember anthy by. this obviously comes with the risk of making anthy an idealized memory, like every other person put in a photograph in this show, but instead it ends up as a symbol for their love. akio may have set up the camera, but anthy (with the help of chu-chu) manipulated their positions so her and utena could hold hands. she also cuts akio out of the frame, much like she cuts him out of her life in the last episode. she doesn't want his presence to tarnish her and utena's memory anymore (although he isn't completely gone from the photograph either, as he will never truly be forgotten.)
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saionjeans · 4 months
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yet another moment where saionji says something incredibly trenchant and insightful only to be completely dismissed due to the ridiculous framing and the general cringiness that pervades everything he says and does (eg, pointing out that the castle is a trick of the light, announcing that they must shed the coffins end of the world has prepared for them, etc etc). obviously in this instance, he is both saying something that is proven correct throughout the show via a myriad of dynamics, but is also shown to be a precept that is teleologically challenged and rejected by anthy’s final choice.
upon a first viewing, one might assume saionji himself is talking about anthy here, whether by presumptuously assuming that she loves him despite his abuse, or claiming that her rejection of him does not lessen his love for her. either way, he seems totally delusional and moronic. i can only assume that utena, who has even less information than we do regarding saionji’s true feelings, assumes that he is talking about anthy, and thus dismisses him out of hand for being a violent idiot. and rightfully so. but also, he’s clearly not talking about anthy, even if he may think he is (or at least would claim that he was if questioned). and this statement is truly definitional to his relationship to touga, whom he resents, envies, and maybe even loathes, but whom he cannot seem to ever actually abandon.
even when he’s given the chance to start fresh, he returns to ohtori (and in this case you can say that it’s because he has nowhere to go, no family, the outside world is scary, ohtori is all he knows, he felt he had no other choice… but this was also true of anthy, and she eventually found the courage to leave! it’s very very hard, but it’s not impossible, which is the point). even as he vocally condemns akio’s system, he nonetheless participates in it, albeit reluctantly, for touga. he is freer, healthier, and kinder in wakaba’s dorm, but he is also deeply unhappy. which isn’t to say that he ever seems happy (at least, not after losing the rose bride), but his unhappiness in “wakaba flourishing” is that of depression, whereas his unhappiness around touga is that of resentment. he’s rightfully angry over constantly being mistreated, but at least he’s not lost. he has a purpose. even if it’s just the purpose of receiving abuse and putting up a futile fight, it’s a role he can play with the only person who has ever truly mattered to him. it’s all he knows; it’s the closest thing he has to real love. and so he stays.
nanami is in a very similar situation as saionji is. they both idealize a version of touga who never really existed, and cling to him despite his blatant mistreatment of them because he is the only person who has ever shown them true affection in their entire lives. he manipulates them, makes a laughingstock of them, facilitates and participates in sexually abusing them, but also makes sure that they are too dependent on him to leave them. nanami is even more blatant in illustrating this idea than saionji is, as for most of the show, she does not even resist against touga like saionji does, rather she purely venerates and worships him, to the point of parody. he is a terrible brother to her, but in such a way that makes it seem like he’s actually a good brother to an obnoxious, ridiculous sister. he is actively grooming her, and she has nowhere to run, because he has fashioned himself her entire world. she cannot fathom a world beyond his limits, her very own personal end of the world.
it’s somewhat unclear whether touga thinks that controlling saionji and nanami is necessary to keeping them around, or whether he only wants them around because he enjoys assuming control over others. it’s probably a mix of both. he probably does hold some affection for them, but cannot conceive of a way to keep them as close to him as he would like without exploiting them, because he believes that true friendship is for fools and true love is impossible. to touga, if every relationship must be imbalanced in some way, then he at least wants to be the one with the power in his deepest relationships, unaware (or at least, willfully ignorant) of the fact that by corrupting and perverting their dynamics, he is slowly tainting their naive childhood love and affection that drew them to him in the first place. so in touga’s case, he inverts saionji’s logic to refigure it as “love can only be facilitated through abuse, no one will truly show you love unless they have to (through exploitation).” it’s the logic of someone who sees the world through an almost 2D framework of abuse, exploitation, transaction, and control. it’s the logic of someone desperately sad and desperately cynical. nanami is very wise (and brave) to ultimately reject him/it, even though it, too, is all she knows.
tsuwabuki complicates the nanami/touga dynamic by aspiring to inhabit both their roles simultaneously, and so he allows himself to be subjected to nanami’s exploitation while simultaneously subjecting her to violence. he is happy to be abused by nanami not because he loves her per se, but because their abuse is mutual. shiori and juri have a similar dynamic, wherein they are both at fault in different ways, both attempt to avoid the other (physically and psychologically) and yet constantly collide like magnets. however, the i would argue that the abuse they face is largely systemic, and their behaviors are primarily a symptom of their internalized homophobia rather than overt malice (even though shiori may pretend otherwise). miki and kozue’s tension is also mutual. they both harm the other despite loving them deeply. because love is not a bandaid that revolves all pain, misunderstanding, and miscommunication. see: the utena and anthy ledge scene.
finally, i think this quote is actually most powerful when figuring it through the lens of utena, anthy, and akio. of course, akio has fostered a dependency in anthy much like touga has with nanami, and so she does not know how to leave him despite being in incredible pain at his hand. but she is not “happy,” as saionji puts it. she is the most miserable girl in the world. she doesn’t love akio as much as she loves the memory of him, the idea of dios (which is of course also true for nanami and saionji re: touga, arguably also true for juri re: shiori, miki re: kozue, etc etc) — but anthy needs akio. or at least, akio has convinced her that she does. he is end of the world, she cannot envision a life beyond his imposed limits.
but i actually find it more interesting with regards to utena and akio. i don’t think at any point in the show, utena ever actually has real, romantic feelings for akio. i think that she is terrified of him, and in her desperate feelings of trapped helplessness as he ensnares her, she convinces herself that those heart palpitations, startled movements, shocks and thrills she feels in her presence is the emotional response not of fear, but of affection. but we know that in anthy’s presence, she doesn’t feel afraid, she feels calm, relaxed, happy. being with anthy isn’t wildly exciting, constantly requiring rationalizations to explain away the dread and internal rejection she feels towards akio’s advances. being with anthy feels like coming home. and it’s why she is initially so happy to be accepted into anthy’s family, to have a big brother like akio, to live under their roof. in utena’s naive, hopeful mind, she is joining anthy’s family in the most innocent possible sense. and she endures it, the grooming, the abuse, the rape, the end of the world; she fights til her very last breath, because she is in love. no matter how [utena] may be abused (by akio), she’s always happy to be near the one she loves (anthy).
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heartslobbf · 2 years
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people will be like ‘yeah it’s really relevant that utena is an orphan haha’ and then not even recognise how utena being a character without living blood relatives is hugely significant in a show where almost all of the most atrocious relationships are ones that have been spurred on by the notion of familial/blood obligation. and utena herself clings so tightly to what is essentially a romantic ideal of ‘the family’, ‘the blood relative’, telling anthy she’s jealous of her relationship with akio, insisting to nanami that she should persevere with her relationship with touga because you’re still siblings. in ohtori, family is something you can only be born into. in ohtori, family is the way you gain power. i mean for the love of god it’s right there, revolutionary girl utena is a family abolitionist masterpiece and it makes me claw at the walls!!!!!!!!! read the palace perspective!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! engage more with these aspects of the show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kill any and all people who go ‘why are there so many weird sibling dynamics i only came for the lesbians’ her NAME is kiryuu nanami and she does both!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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cafeleningrad · 6 months
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Ohtori is such a disorienting place. It's so emblematic that none of the actual needs of the people in it are met. In fact it gives answers but none actually are satisfying for anyone yet the answers are presented as only alternative. ("You have to revolutionize the world (by participating in the duels that ensure the world continues to run on the same old dynamic.)"
What system Ohtori, Akio by proxy, proposes is the idea of power over another. It's very gendered power as we learn later. Women's power exists either as extension's of a man (Nanami's high social status by virtue of being Touga's little sister), be inspired to have power by extension of a man (Wakaba), surrendering to a man (Kozue), or can be easily taken away power if a man decides that the woman had enough power (Juri,Utena). In the instance a woman has power it's also used to dominate others just like men do. (Nanami being cruel to others, to Tsuwabuki in particular, Utena treating Anthy her a puzzle piece to her princely identity.) In the end there is an idea how someone who should hold all the power should be like (the Prince), and they're given free reign. However that's not what the characters need.
Touga is entirely helpless to his paternal CSA. Akio's proposition is to become, for once, the one in charge of others so none can exploit him again. And Touga fails to see how Akio still exploits him by directing Touga, with quiet implicit imagery stressing that dynamic. What Touga would have needed was protection and a trusting family.
Nanami grew up so isolated and shamed for diverging from the norm, she is entirely dependent on external subjects and objects to define her. Either it's being defined by her relationship to Touga which is the entire basis of her social status, and her only hope for affection. Nanami can only define herself by traditional feminine and classicist means like her perceived ideal femininity, and brand-name jewelry which can easily turn on her, if external voices tell her that she should wear something. Nanami is so desperate for affection, being cared and loved for but the only language she is given is Ohtori's language of "men and women are only corresponding romantically". She can't express her need for familial proximity to Touga. The only other form of gaining adoration she knows is by violence, be it Touga's kitten, Tsuwabuki, or beating her three nameless underlings into submission.
It's not until the third arc that we learn about the Kaoru twins are in the middle of their parents separating. Their childhood is getting disrupted. Both of them are longing for time of connection and chance to hold onto each other. But Ohtori tells them that Miki can only adore Kozue as innocent and helpless. Kozue, like Nanami, gets told that her only chance to express affection to her male twin is by a sexualized, romanticized interaction. For two characters who're living through turbulent times, and need some stability in the other, twisting their chance of proximity is exactly the wrong answer.
Saionji really wants to remain friends with Touga he admires so much. (If not being in love with him.) Even more than Juri, he knows that the duel platform is just a set up, he swallows Touga's poison of "true friendship doesn't exist" again and again. The only chance of proximity to Touga is to disrespect others, demonstrate superiority over them, especially Anthy, as best proxy to a close male-male-dynamic. Saionji's only given path is to delude himself further and further.
Juri pushes so many people away because she's afraid her homosexuality will be revealed. Ohtori as a place does punish homosexuality severely, see Mikage's twisted memory, Ruka trying to converse Juri. This place convinces Juri over and over again that she's wrong for loving Shiori. But the truth is, Shiori is so much in love with Juri that she will resort to abuse her emotional power as long as it serves the purpose of Juri remaining close to her. What they would have needed is the chance to know that actually they're safe to be honest, at least to each other.
Utena is deeply grief-stricken by her parent's death. As a child the idea that everything will fade is terrifying. The only alternative she is shown is that Anthy's suffering is eternal. She wants to help. But the only path for being admired and adored is becoming a prince. The only agency to help and save others is by exercising the prince's power over someone. Akio becomes even crueler by trying to convince Utena that a girl's actual aspiration is romance (with a man). What else should she want? It also distract her from her genuine compassion for Anthy, and wishing for Anthy's happiness.
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n2nataliegoodman · 8 months
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God every time I watch episode 37 it feels like repeatedly getting stabbed in the gut with a knife. Utena asking Akio out on a date because now that she knows what he’s doing to Anthy she tries to keep him away from while also taking off the ring in place for the sweater Anthy knitted for her. And Akio somehow not getting the hint that she knows who he is. What he is.
Anthy saying all girls are like the Rose Bride before taking Utena’s hand, knowing that despite both of them trying to keep Akio away from the other they’ve both failed and Akio’s abuse has changed both of them.
Saionji and Touga being honest with one another about how they feel and seeing each other as allies rather than rivals, while letting Akio believe that Utena is still completely under his spell.
Anthy echoing what Akio said a few episodes earlier, how she wishes she and Utena can be friends forever and her unchanging slight resigned smile as Utena rips up the letter because, regardless of what Akio thinks, she will choose Anthy and herself over him every time. Because choosing Anthy is choosing the moment she changed her destiny from that of a princess in need of rescuing to a prince. Choosing Anthy is choosing herself.
Juri, the only other explicitly sapphic character who gave Utena the sword to “take back her self”, forcing Utena to confront the fact that she and Anthy are not just friends and that Utena doesn’t even have the words to describe their bond.
Everyone, but most evidently Nanami, believing that Utena is still naive to who/what Akio and, more importantly, Anthy are while she gives them all a knowing smile without actually answering.
Juri and Miki admitting that Utena has caused a revolution for each of them too and that they have been able to change thanks to her.
The Shadow Girls saying they really are “true friends” before kissing paralleling Utena’s inability to truly answer Juri’s question about her feelings towards Anthy.
The car scene showing that, despite everything, Akio has to work harder than ever to keep Anthy under control, and even then it’s still slipping.
The iconic cantarella scene. No words are possible. That scene makes me feel so many things every time. All I’m going to say is that it’s Anthy’s final attempt to try to make Utena run away from Akio, but instead Utena shows she’ll stay no matter what.
And following this, Anthy choosing that, no matter how much pain she’s been in, Akio’s abuse of Utena was the last straw and she would rather die than let it continue. Because if not for her, Utena has no reason to continue down the path towards revolution. And if she can’t make Utena run away she has to try the only other thing she can to free Utena from the duels.
“Whoever believes in true friendship is a fool.” “Didn’t you know? I am a fool.”
Both Utena and Anthy choosing to confront Akio: Anthy through taping the letter back together, Utena by putting on the ring.
Not to mention the fact that this idiot pedophile honestly believed that Utena would choose him over the girl she’d been fighting to protect the entire time, for longer than she even remembers.
No piece of media has ever made me feel the way this specific episode does and I don’t think any piece of media ever will again.
And no piece of media will ever make me absolutely loathe a character the way RGU does with Akio. I have never had a villain turn my stomach the way he does.
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fairydust-stuff · 2 months
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I find Saionji & Akio dynamics facinating. I know he mostly focuses on Utena & Touga and of course Anthy gets the worst of his abuse/ direction attention.
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. Here you have this teen who still gets pulled into Akio's bs, but can half see though it. Also for all Saionji's toxic masculinity bullshit. He takes one look at Akio and just hates his guts. He has such a strong negative reaction to the whole situation. The " Your his little lap dog" comment to Touga.
I rewatched the car scenes and while everyone ignores Akio or just kinda sits there other then Nanami (Who also half gets it).
Saionji's first impulse is to try to grab Akios shoulder looking pissed as hell. He's the only one not ignoring Akio's role in the situation. He's the only one who reflects on Akio's role as Utena's savior.
He's the one who comes to the conclusion Akio is keeping them trapped in their coffins. Despite not having the vocabulary to express how he Utena and Touga are being abused,exploited, groomed. Because even that has been refused to these kids. He hits on something being wrong. (Also he see's Akios abuse of Touga and pins Akio as the problem. Even Utena doesn't do that right away.)
Akio's half of the dynamic is harder to read. But he seems to take interest in Saionji even though he loses. Since he seems to be ordering Touga to take him out again.
Also there's the " Now be nice to your friend." comment. which reminds me of Akios " I want you and Utena to be very good freinds comment." to anthy. And the creepy photo shoot after party. Which gives this sexual grooming vibe to be sure. While this could just be to mess with Touga.
Which is highly possible it still involves Saionji. In what is a possible attempt to weaken Touga's friendship bond. Which suggests Akio underestimates Saionji just as much as Utena.
In both cases he really thought they'd abandon the person they loved. Then resorts to sexual abuse of both Utena & Saionji when they refuse to validate his world view.
Then they both basically give Akio the middle finger. Utena does a full on revolution and frees Anthy. While Saionji emotionally supports Touga by using the very role Akio gave some of the duelists. That of the bride which fits into his dominate/ subordinate narrative. By making it part of an equal partnership.
Much like with Utena's being gone from his world. Akio is obvious to what Saionji did. Seeing only that he lost and not the overall impact he had on Touga.
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aroanthy · 5 months
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thinking about nanami and touga both telling utena not to trust anthy at the end of the series. whilst nanami and anthy being friends is something that makes me bawl like a little baby and overjoys me immensely, ive never bought a reading of nanami post-32 that is anthy positive. like idk how you could get that impression when all she does is talk about how anthy is a terrible and dangerous person. she’s scared of her. and you know she shouldn’t be, but it’s understandable why a 13 year old living in ohtori academy might be scared of someone she already didn’t like after finding out something deeply traumatic regarding them and not having the tools to make sense of it in a compassionate way. and it makes me want to eat drywall
what’s really interesting about all this to me tho is how both kiryuus tell utena not to trust ‘the chairman/end of the world or himemiya anthy/the rose bride’. anthy and akio are a package deal of toxicity and harm to both of them and if that isn’t just the most fascinating thing ever. also the difference between nanami’s ‘chairman/himemiya’ and touga’s ‘end of the world/rose bride’ (nanami giving her warning during the badminton scene, touga giving his at the end of his duel. so much going on here wrt roles and settings and rituals and reality). but getting back to my real point isn’t it so cool (agonising) how nanami and touga are incapable of extending compassion or understanding to anthy despite the fact that they’re the two people who know the most about her other than utena and akio. and like. they don’t know a Lot, but theyve both had a smidge of insight into an abusive relationship that mirrors aspects of their own lives in myriad ways
idk something about the rose bride as a symbol who bears all of humanity’s hatred. and in the end all girls are like the rose bride yes, but key word here is like. an approximation; all trapped, all agonised, yes, but not all literally fucking crucified for eternity by a million swords that shine with human hatred. not abstracted in such a particular and insidious way. i always find anthy/kiryuu parallels compelling wrt issues of race and class and mannnnnn. nanami takes a step away from the duelling game. she’s not out, but she’s not actively partaking, not actively being exploited. touga, whilst a little more overtly involved in stuco business and still meeting with akio, does also take a step away. like, they’re both able to do that. it’s a bit of an artifice, sure, they’re still here, but oh my god oh my god oh my god. theyre not anthy. am i making sense can anyone hear me holy shit
i think what im trying to say is that for everything that both nanami and touga learn about ohtori academy and the people living in it, for everything that forces them to self-reflect and question the ground that they stand upon, they fail to break the chain with it. like, they too contribute to anthy’s abstraction. she’s an idea that they secretly embody/emulate (not sure which word works better for what im trying to say just yet), and not a person who shares experiences with them but is still wholly separate from them. this kind of compassion is like. it’s too hard, when you’re in the situations that all three of them are in. anthy too perceives both of them as nonhuman, but there is a crucial power dynamic at play here. how can you stomach such a kindness to someone you can only see as a poor imitation of the worst parts of yourself, whom you loathe??
^ THIS GUY loves it when characters commit acts of extreme violence against one another that they themselves have experienced. the nanamianthytouga brand
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rose-bride-bracket · 10 months
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alright, while I work on deciding who to include in the bracket (+ other things), here are all the utena submissions I got. only one shall survive to the actual bracket. I could make a mini-bracket, since there are 8 different characters, but I don't really feel like it. therefore,
propaganda below (note - some of these characters had multiple submissions, so if they are eliminated here, the rest of their propaganda will be released afterwards):
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shiori: You wouldn't really vote against Shiori, would you? 🥺 Even if she knows you must hate her, don't you want to mend your relationship? 🥺 When she's depending on you with all her heart? 🥺 She knows what she wants this time, really; this must be it. She's winning, right?
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touga: Victim of CSA forced to perform an impossible gender expectation that is unhealthy for him and will ultimately kill him(metaphorically or literally depending on how you view him in Adolescence). Betraying the only people in your life that may have ever seen even a sliver of vulnerability from you and manipulating them for both your own goals and playing your role as a pawn in Akio's fucked up game. Honestly? It's about being forced into a position of inferiority and a feeling of being used and using that vitriol to hurt and manipulate others to gain back that sense of power no matter how superficial. Just kinda choosing to live in your coffin because the idea of anything else is so foreign that it's terrifying and feels like a death in itself and to make that choice would mean abandoning everything youve done to adapt to the current system.
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kanae: shes soooo rosebride. shes so desperate for the princess role which she technically has achieved but which she'll never actually have. the way she's compelled to blame anthy. ough
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idk who this is but it's not mamiya guys right. mamiya has purple hair and he set the fire and both of us are alive and we will obtain eternity together right guys. right: hes such a rose bride. literally. but to me hes his own kind of rose bride. at least before. yknow
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juri: Underrated as Rose Bride to Ruka. Forced to swallow down her emotions because he decided he knew what's good for her.
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saionji: he needs a W. but also he's kind of a rose bride in relation to touga specifically--being manipulated by him to continue playing the role he's been given
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nanami: oh you know ;) (ridiculously loyal little sister being manipulated by her older brother)
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utena: 39 episode run of Akio trying to rose bride her
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RGU and the Transfeminine, Part 1
OR
Why Miki Kaoru is an Egg
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Fig. 1: The Sunlit Garden
When I’d first watched through Revolutionary Girl Utena, Miki Kaoru was initially one of the characters I had the hardest time figuring out. Unlike the other poisoned sibling relationships in the show, Miki and Kozue’s didn’t really make much sense to me. I couldn’t decide how I felt about the character, whether he was “better” somehow than Touga, Saionji, or Akio, or if he was “just as bad”. And of course. What the hell is with that damn stopwatch dude??* Looking at fan writings afterward just deepened the confusion. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on what’s going on with Miki. It’s only after much re-watching, and introspection, that I think I’ve figured out why I’m so conflicted about the character. I’d like to share why- and hopefully along the way I can at least show that Miki is more interesting than many give him credit for. Click the readmore if you please!
(And, to be clear, what is written below is a reading, a blend of evidence from the text, from the subtext, and my own personal experience. I do not claim to be the first to interpret the character this way nor do I claim that this is the definitive read of the character. Nonetheless, I hope I can make my case to you!)
and, a big thank you to @empty-movement for collating all the high quality screengrabs and scans in this post!
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Fig 2: Rookie Princes
While I’m not the first to notice, I think it’s frequently overlooked just how similar Utena and Miki are in the first arc. It’s definitely something that flies over the heads of many first-time viewers. But Miki and Utena, are extremely alike! Of course, they are both motivated by an unattainable image of the past, and Miki’s early episodes codify the “sunlit garden” into the RGU symbolic environment. But it’s more than just this. Utena and Miki both treat Anthy in basically the same way. Utena has an easy time convincing Miki that the dueling game is objectifying nonsense. That the principled thing is to leave the whole exercise behind and treat Anthy like a person. It isn’t very hard for Miki to convince Utena to duel him for her hand either. They both view themselves as her personal protector, and (while maybe at different times), both project their imagination of what she must be thinking onto her. Utena does a bit more than Miki to try and figure Anthy out, but it doesn’t take much for her to get swept up in her own image of prince. In both their minds, Anthy needs them to save her. And, when Anthy looks them in the eyes, and tells them. I’m not yours. It destroys them. Freezes them in their tracks, breaks their hearts. Screaming, its a lie, you can’t mean that! Of course they get along so well! They see themselves in one another, plain as day. Little rival princelings, seeking the affections of the same princess, but always with chivalry and good intention.
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Fig 3: Heartbreak
But I think there is more to it than that! Miki and Utena (and later Nanami) are some of the youngest duelists (at least, without a black rose anyway). And, they have fairly similar relationships to the other members of the student council. Juri acts as an older friend, mentor, and source of advice for both of them. Its not unlikely that she sees her younger self in the two of them, and while she does very directly take this out on Utena, its her sword that Utena takes to her second duel with Touga. Indeed, Touga manipulates Miki and Utena in unsubtle and sexually aggressive ways, as compared to how he might treat Saionji or Juri. And for both, its their relationship to gender that he directly attacks. He attempts to break Utena’s spirit by turning her “back into a normal girl”, and for Miki he seems to challenge his masculinity. And while this may seem as though the two of them are being shoved in opposite directions, in both cases, Touga hits them in the same place. “You’re a prince then? I don’t think so. Unless you prove it”. Touga isn’t the only one to question Miki’s ability or status. Utena and Juri both tell Miki. You are much more suited to playing piano than dueling. The main difference here is that they tell him this with genuine compassion, but the implication is the same. You aren’t suited to this prince thing. Give it up.
I don’t think it’s just the audience who is conflicted slotting in Miki with the other “men”.
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Fig 4: Strange Friends
Much ink has been spilled on Miki and Kozue’s relationship, but I do think there is one thing consistent across readings. There is a power struggle going on between them, and they’ve both got something to hold over the others head. Personally, I don’t believe there is any attraction between them. Rather, What’s Going On With Those Two is their mismatch in understanding their sexuality and the RGU concept of “Reality”, and the friction that creates in their image of themselves and one another. That reading may go as follows. Miki sees Kozue as acting dangerously and immorally. In his mind, she is his responsibility, to keep out of trouble at the very least. Perhaps he sees himself as needing to step in for their absent parents. So he sees himself as the mature and grounded one, a father figure needing to keep the both of them on the straight and narrow. Kozue on the other hand, sees Miki as being essentially blind to Reality (with a capital R). She believes he doesn’t have a good grasp of what sex is, or what adult relationships look like. She may believe that she understands what happened with their parents much better than Miki, and clearly sees that her brother is in danger with his creepy music teacher. So she sees herself as the mature and grounded one, needing to protect her brother both by warding off people who would take advantage of him and by getting him to grow up and see things as they Really are. Without their parents, they feel the need to take care of one another and control how the other approaches their sexuality. But in the end, it does seem that Kozue is the one who is better able to manipulate Miki’s behavior, helping Akio convince him to duel a second time. That Miki needs to grow up and accept what he wants. He sees a vision of Anthy, and he’s driving the akiomobile. And, with fearful realization, he discovers the identity of End of the World.
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Fig 5: Fear
So then. Why should Miki be so hung up about his sexuality? It clearly makes him very uncomfortable. And why does he compare the sister he had in the past onto the one he has in the present? What’s so special about that sunlit garden, anyway? What is Miki Kaoru’s shining thing?
Let me spin a yarn, if you'll indulge me-
As far as Miki remembers it, when he was little things were perfect. His parents were still there, and he and his twin sister were thick as thieves. They would play piano together, and drink milkshakes. Things were simple and happy as far as he’s concerned, and while his childhood was not nearly as rosy as he remembers, it was certainly better than whatever he has to deal with now. Now his parents are gone for reasons he doesn’t quite understand, and his sister has drifted away from him and acts promiscuously. His body is starting to change, and it fills him with disgust. Worse still, he finds himself envying his sister for some reason. It all floods him with shame. He needs to fight those feeling with everything he has. Being very clever for his age, he finds himself the youngest member of the student council. He becomes involved with the dueling game as it is revealed to him, and goes along with it, not wanting to act out of place. He gets a crush on Anthy, and is unable to figure out what the hell he should do about it. Later, he meets Utena, and the two become fast friends. And how lucky, his new friend is roommates with his crush! She’s just so perfect. She’s kind, and quiet, and chaste, not at all like his sister. He feels a kinship with her. And in an act of cosmic fate- she plays for him his favorite childhood arrangement. It’s just as Touga says. He can’t let the world get to her, the way its getting to his sister. The way its getting to him. He needs to make sure that Anthy, and his memories, are safe. But alas- it seems she doesn’t feel the same way. She’d rather be with Utena. Hopefully, Utena can protect her where he cannot. Miki and Utena go back to being friends, and he nurses his hurt feelings privately. It wouldn't do to make a scene about it, and besides, it wasn’t appropriate for him to think of her like that anyway. Thinking about anyone like that. He can’t help but feel disgusted with himself for allowing it. Later, his relationship with his sister continues to deteriorate, and his father is remarrying. But he can stick by his principles, and stay out of it all, the dueling especially. Kozue, Touga, and Akio have other plans. He is confronted with Reality, and it terrifies him. He sees himself in the drivers seat, Anthy his. This is what he is now, no point in trying to hide from it. He challenges Utena again, taking an early advantage utilizing his new resolve and Utena’s confusion. But that resolves breaks quickly. What is Kozue doing with Anthy?
Pay attention, or you’ll lose.
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Fig 6: Crash!!
Miki is disgusted with himself, his role, because he does not want it. He hates what’s happening to himself and his family. He admires Utena and Juri, for embodying his ideal self. He listens to Touga, puts up with his music teacher, even if they make him feel gross and uncomfortable, because he feels he has to and that he doesn’t have a choice. He idolizes Anthy, so much. He is attracted to her, but maybe there is something more. Maybe, Miki wishes he could be her. Miki, in my mind, is a closeted trans lesbian going through puberty as a boy. I think that part of this might be projection, perhaps. But I hope that I might have made my case using the text of the show. But even if you disagree, I hope that you might have a better appreciation for his character. I think he’s fairly consistently people’s least favorite council member as a character, but honestly he’s my favorite and I think there’s a lot more too him than a lot of people give him credit for.
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Fig 7: Three Lesbians Hanging Out
… this all being said. I think it’s interesting that Miki thinks Anthy is the picture of femininity right? That this is what he wants.
In the end, all girls are like the rose bride.
Please wait patiently while I make the case, that while Miki is an egg. Anthy has long since hatched...
(And I do mean be patient! This subject, and the concept that Ohtori represents a transmisogynystic institution at its very core, is WAY more personal than this headcanon, and also is much more of a difficult thing to write for dozens of reasons. I'm still not 100% sure it would even be right of me to post my thoughts on that publicly. But if enough people are interested, maybe that would motivate me to write it!)
*What’s a good Miki essay without some sort of Stopwatch Theory tm? Well (and I freely admit much of this is probably projection, but it’s not just me projecting! It’s also my girlfriend!!), Miki seems to get very wrapped up in his own thoughts. He is very self conscious, takes the criticisms of others very seriously, and also seems to get ideas about How Things Are Going To Happen in his head. He desperately tries to make sense of his surroundings, and finds himself consistently failing to do that. So my guess is the stopwatch is a way for him to regulate and calibrate his thoughts and hypotheses and self image. He picked it up in his duty as council secretary, but its something he feels is significant outside of that. Aha moment? Click. Unexpected end to a council meeting? Click. Something go completely as expected? Click. It helps him process I think. That is my formal Stopwatch Hypothesis tm.
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Supplement Fig 1: Stopwatch
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bonni · 6 months
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I love thinking about how even before the very end of the series there were cracks starting to show in Akio's grand scheme. He acts like the all-powerful mastermind but he really did keep fucking up! And all of his fuck-ups stem entirely from his own arrogance, and they also all foreshadow his ultimate fuck-up of underestimating both Utena and Anthy.
He fucked up with Juri and Ruka because he thought he could change Juri's sexuality in the same way that he thought he could change Utena's sexuality. He fucked up with Nanami and Touga because he thought that Nanami wanted a sexual relationship with Touga, just like how he deluded himself into thinking Anthy wanted to be abused by him and would never leave him. Those are the top two examples that come to mind right now but I'm positive there are many more.
And every time something goes wrong for Akio he desperately tries to right the ship; even by the end of the series he's just like "well that particular time loop was a little fucked up huh. Let's do better next time" but at that point it was already too late for his stupid ass
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transmascutena · 3 months
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why is utena's uniform black? within the show, the color white represents the prince, or the idea of princehood, which is why utena wears a white rose in the duels, and why dios' (and akio's) uniform is white, and by extension why the student council uniforms are too. so the fact that the main color utena wears is the opposite of that is significant. i think the black of utena's uniform is mainly meant to stand in contrast to the student council, to show that she's not like them, that she's an outsider. it's also important that it's in contrast to the prince's uniform; she's playing a role she can never really fill. she cannot become a prince, and she doesn't really, truly, want to either. or she wouldn't, knowing what it really means. her uniform is a way of expressing her masculinity, and whether she realizes it or not, the way she does that does not entirely line up with being a prince. it exists outside of that. this is of course a good thing.
the red accents are interesting too, because it's a color very heavily associated with akio and anthy (and touga, obviously, but i don't think that's directly relevant when it comes to why utena wears it.) in this way utena's outfit also works as a sort of inversion of akio's outfit when he's not playing prince: red vs black shirt, black vs red pants (or shorts in her case.) then there's the red of anthy's rose bride dress. red accents are present in the white uniforms of the prince and the student council too. the dresses utena wears in episode 3 and 33, as well as the girl's uniform, are also white (or very close to it) with red accents. the sweater she wears in episode 37 is entirely red. utena's rose bride dress does not have any red on it, unlike anthy's, and it isn't white either; it's pink, a combination of the two colors, like her hair. i'm not completely sure what all this means, but it's interesting that the moments utena wears colors closer to white, to the prince's color, are the very moments she's the least masculine and "princely" (the two are seperate, but in these cases connected.) perhaps white is not just the color of the prince, but the princess as well? is red the color of the witch, then?
in the movie, utena's uniform is both black and white and does not have any red until she's in her dueling outfit, where she gets red stripes between the black and the white, as well as on her epaulets and shoes. and here anthy's rose bride dress is no longer fully red, but mostly white with red accents like utena's uniform (if white is the prince's color, does this reflect anthy's more proactive role in the movie? is she not playing utena's saviour in many ways here?) an important part of the movie's ending is anthy and utena both shedding their clothes entirely, and their roles along with them. so whatever meaning the colors may or may not have held, they're free of that now.
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saionjeans · 1 month
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so i read part one of after the revolution. touga and saionji both being art dealers who contend with the notion of prioritizing art, ethics, or profit is really great way to concisely communicate the tensions in utena regarding the inherent violence of framing as it relates to objectification through the gaze, and how objectification leads to dehumanization leads to abuse as a mode of control. here are some key panels that communicate these ideas most explicitly:
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it’s really interesting that while touga argues for art to take priority over the ethics of how that art is produced, saionji finds that notion outright reprehensible and admonishes touga for thinking that way. it’s funny to consider, because they’re both so awful, but yes, technically, saionji is nonetheless far more principled than touga.
touga takes a relativist approach to the morality of abuse, including the sexual abuse of children, claiming that there is no concrete morality that dictates whether or not an act is wrong, and thus the legacy of the artist must remain in the public consciousness for future generations to evaluate on their own terms. it’s not an unreasonable argument, but it’s also clearly obfuscating his own relationship to such a dynamic, as someone who wants to minimize the pain of his own suffering to position himself as stronger and more powerful than he is. by diminishing the impact of child sexual abuse through defending the right of the artist (ie, akio), touga is diminishing his own trauma for the sake of defending the value of art.
but saionji is also an art dealer, also operates within this framework, even as he resists it. which is obvious, because that’s his established modus operandi: ruthlessly critiquing the system that he participates in and even benefits from. saionji thinks that the enabling of csa is “a betrayal of life itself,” but touga considers it a crucial facet in the process of “immortalizing art,” or, in other words, achieving eternity.
then utena appears, and she grants touga the power to revolutionize the world, or, in other words, extinguish akio’s ghost once and for all. once touga defeats akio with utena’s help, akio’s prized painting (a nude of anthy he painted) transforms into a painting of her and anthy embracing (and fully clothed). the idea of achieving immortality through art, or attaining absolute power and control through exploitation, is flawed. paradigms can be overthrown through active resistance to hegemonic norms. neither touga’s approach that all art must be approached through a relativist lens, nor saionji’s approach that bad people should never have their art platformed on ethical grounds, is entirely correct. while saionji’s principles (that csa is always wrong and must always be condemned) is not incorrect, there is also a third approach, that is actively underwriting, complicating, and shifting the dominant narrative, which can only be done by facing it head on, as utena does.
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when akio comes back as a ghost (for the second time) to attempt to possess his painting of anthy titled revolution (which is great because he then says “i will let no one take my revolution!!”), saionji jumps in front of his sword to save touga. the extent to which saionji is actually injured is unclear (it’s utena, so blood isn’t actually a byproduct of stab wounds), but the sentiment remains. touga helps saionji to his feet, and they lean on each other while touga says “that’s what it means to have the power to revolutionize the world.”
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saionji jumping in front of akio’s sword for touga is essentially a parallel to utena taking the swords of hatred for anthy, although the parallel roles of anthy and touga are less explicit here (although as previously stated, his defensiveness when it comes to the matter of csa is nonetheless telling). it’s basically a conclusion to touga’s claim that “true friendship is for fools,” as he offers his true friendship, tender and unbidden, to saionji, and saionji, in turn, who literally drew a sword on him at one point in the comic (valid btw), jumps in front of another sword for touga’s sake.
the role of art in this story is thus fascinating as it connects more to the role of paintings in adolescence, whereas photography is the primary vehicle used to communicate this tension of framing in the show proper. the painting of anthy is a signification of the violence done to her, and both its revolutionary potential as utena actively rewrites it, and the conversation surrounding exploitative art as approached by touga and saionji, is actually a really interesting way to summarize these key thematic tensions, while also actively developing (and perhaps even resolving) the conflict between touga and saionji, who do blatantly function as counterparts to utena and anthy, for better or for worse.
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eldragon-x · 6 months
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I want to talk about episode 25 of RGU, specifically the switch from Utena pulling the Sword of Dios from Anthy, to Anthy pulling the sword from Utena, and the direct fallout of that.
Since on my first watchthrough of the show, I've read pulling a sword out of someone as symbolism for holding power or trying to gain control in a relationship. There's obviously the inherent power dynamic between the duellists and Anthy,
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everything in the Black Rose arc,
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and this comes back again in episode 38 where Akio draws swords from both Utena and Anthy.
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Back to the point, in episode 23 Utena first openly acknowledges that Anthy's whole deal isn't as cut and dry simple as she first assumed it to be.
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Then in episode 25, Utena emphasizes that she wants to have a genuine friendship with her where they're able to support each other.
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Anthy almost opens up
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and continues to drop hints later down the line
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Later in episode 25, during the rematch against Saionji, Utena's sword vanishes and she's helpless to defend herself against Saionji who just keeps swinging at her. And then this whole thing happens:
This is the first time Anthy straight up steps into the battle. She has encouraged and warned Utena before, but here she pushes her out of the way before pulling a sword from her.
Not only did the shadow girls before this duell talk about team work and not only does Anthy say they gotta do this together, they say "Grant us the power of revolution!" as opposed to Utena on her own normally saying "Grant me the power to bring the world revolution!"
It's also worth mentioning here that even Akio didn't expect this development.
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If pulling a sword from someone smybolizes holding power or trying to gain control in a relationship, I believe the switch between Utena and Anthy marks a shift in their dynamic because Utena is really truly trying to level with Anthy, gaining her trust, and growing closer to her.
And what makes me even more sure of this is how both Anthy and Akio react to this situation.
Anthy, from the ending of this episode forward, becomes more defiant towards Akio in small, subtle ways. From just not as freely going along with everything to concealing things and refusing to respond to questions.
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Akio on his end basically tells Touga in episode 26 that Utena and Anthy need to be seperated
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Episode 25 is such a huge turning point in the series in a lot of ways and I could keep talking about this whole development bleeding into the rest of the series, but as I said I'm focusing on the direct fallout of the sword switch.
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rabarbarzcukrem · 4 months
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Black Rose Musical save me
So they're starting with Mikage's backstory? Interesting
Actually, I wonder how they'll go about showing that Mamiya was Anthy all along
Mamiya doing that quick spin with Anthy, and then Utena with Tokiko...
I love the "Burn" song, it does a good job at setting the mood for this arc
Ok we're getting a reminder of Utena's story and what happened in the previous musical
I love the way Saionji tosses his hair lmao. Cunty. And how he runs away with that pathetic "UaUaAaaaa!!". he's such a loser
I like how these musicals really want us to associate "the princess was wrapped in the scent of roses" not necessarily with Dios, but with Anthy. She appears every time this line is sung
Ooooh even during the "on the previous episode" part, Mikage and Mamiya are already watching everything from the shadows
Btw, Mikage's voice sounds really similar to the original in my opinion
The parallels between Mamiya and Anthy are so clear, "if you say so, senpai" = "if utena-sama says so"
Akio being introduced so casually when it's obvious that he's super important to the plot also reflects how it happened in anime
Utena/Anthy and Mikage/Mamiya parallels..Mmmm delicious
I looooove how the whole cast is gradually presented (one relationship by one) and then at the end there's Akio with Anthy. Such an amazing way to show the way all these relationships connect and mirror each other
This musical's theme song being about light, mirrors and never letting go of something that might seem like an illusion...huh...
The scenes simultaneously happening on the stage impact each other - Akio is talking with Utena in the tower, but at the same time pushes Kozue towards Miki. Only a stage adaptation would be able to portray it this way
Wait....No kanae?? :((((
Holy shit Mikage's songs have such a creepy sound with the choirs in the background
(Also Mikage pushing Miki, imitating what Akio did to Kozue)
THE ROSE STABBING SCENE. Intense as hell
The contrast between Kozue entering her Dark Era and Wakaba whining about exams lol. Isn't that a perfect encapsulation of the spirit of RGU. The tragi-comedy of it all
The choreography !!
I wonder if there's any significance to the fact that when the cast is standing still singing zettai unmei mokushiroku, Anthy is copying the dance moves of the supporting dancers
The fact that Black Rose duelists have the same skills as the members of the student council showed by having both of them fight Utena at once?? Clever
Also, power of Dios possessing the sword showed by Dios literally fighting alongside Utena
Shame that Kozue didn't do that dramatic falling on the ground thing after her rose got pierced
The egg being called "a cage of freedom". That's a nice way to put it
Saionjeans appears!!
I love shiori already
I can't remember, does Shiori call herself a prodigal daughter in the anime too? Either way that's something I'll be thinking about for the next few days
They did the blood sucking scene 👀 while Shiori and Juri's gay shit was happening 👀
Shiori thinking Juri was reaching for the boy, when she was actually reaching towards her...
Akio walking with the same posture as Touga did... HMMM
They even managed to keep the water motif !
Shiori's horrified expression when she sees her picture...The actress is too good
SHIORI AND JURI FIGHTING SCENE
How did they manage to make them even gayer??
Shiori and Juri taking off each other's roses AAAH
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I love that Nanami consistently breaks the fourth wall, it's a perfect thing for her character to do
Wakaba screaming after being stabbed was so heartbreaking...
Akio throwing away that hair clip in the exact same way Touga did with Saionji's exchange diary. Once again: HMMM
Wakaba singing the lines from the first musical about the book she'd read, but this time with her voice breaking, on the verge of crying. I can't stand this
Saionji and Wakaba both singing about a prince on a white horse - Saionji mocking Utena by this, Wakaba actually idealizing Saionji. God, it works so well
Wakaba's duel broke my heart. The actress is so good at capturing the desperation and sorrow in her voice
For the first time Akio is implied to actually have been the one to give Utena the ring...and the way he grabs the supporting dancer and shoves him to the ground. He gives off such sinister vibes
The friendship song is both hopeful and sad because it proves what Akio said - Wakaba had her moment of happiness and specialness but then she had to go back to her normal life of the supporting character. And also because of the fact that while Wakaba and Utena keep singing, Anthy had to go meet up with Akio.. So even though it's heart-warming to see them spend quality time together, none of them really understand what the others are going through
This killed me
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"Do you have someone important to you?" And we see the duelists with their black rose counterparts
I almost feel like Mamiya in the flashbacks has slightly different mannerisms that the one in the present impersonated by Anthy.
Mamiya with the candlestick literally SITTING on the COFFIN
"Is (Saionji) going to waltz his ass back in here?" Lmaooo
Did I just imagine it or did Mikage slash Utena on her arm, similarly to how she injured his arm before the duel
Is "Imaginary living body" playing?!?!? Hell yeah!!!
Mikage actually seeing Dios helping Utena fight? Interesting! That's something I didn't expect
I loooove the curtain falling and revealing the projector. That's what I mean when I say that a stage adaptation brings the best out of this anime. There are so many fun visual things like this
I think this arc must have been incredibly difficult to pull off in this form, without being able to do quick cuts and transitions that could be shown in the anime. But they did such a good job! Actually, they kept surprising me with clever ways of adapting the themes of the show to fit this adaptation. I was constantly impressed
The last thing left to say is. PART 3 WHEN
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