#bad webcomics wiki

[thewebcomicsreview]

I know by now Bad Webcomics Wiki is not a good resource for adequate webcomic criticism, but their Sabrina Online review kind of irked me. It's pretty clear from the get go they don't respect people calling themselves furries, and the review reflects that, with maybe a few minor criticisms of the comic itself. Also, they have a problem with it being Looney Tunes-influenced while having adult situations. You can make a comic with anthropomorphic characters and have them in mature situations, a good example is the noir graphic novel Blacksad. They shouldn't be reviewing a comic like this if they can't be objective about it. Whether you're a furry or not, that's not fair. Or am I just oblivious to the comics shortcomings?

I'm pretty sure at least half of BWW reviews are done by people who have never read the comic they're reviewing. It's a big part of why they all open with some variant of "Downfall: It always sucked" as their One Joke.

As is the case on their Sabrina Online review. Which also makes fun of Sabrina Online calling attention to itself being one of the first-ever webcomics while also calling it "derivative" without doing much of anything to explain that contradiction. Like, they mean "derivative" of Looney Tunes but....Looney Tunes is rather famously slapstick jokes and not sitcom slice-of-life?

And, like, if your whole thesis is that a webcomic from September 1996 is derivative of Looney Tunes because it's a mildly sexy take on the funny animal genre and you're not mentioning the hot new Looney Tune of 1996

I mean, there's a certain level of intellectual laziness that kind of discredits your review writ large, you know?

Similarly, their complaints about the small size of the images does not acknowledge the state of internet technology in 1996, there's just a supreme lack of effort to put the comic into any kind of historical context in the service of any kind of point. "Well, they should have changed it as technology improved". They did!

Eric Schwartz is actually making the pictures not only in color, but in a normal-sized format as well rather than teeny-tiny as previously. Don't ask why.

It might be worth asking why, BWW, especially when the answers are obvious.

#Sabrina Online #Bad Webcomics Wiki #Honestly Minerva Mink might have been more influential than Lola Bunny #But Minerva Mink isn't nearly as well-known

[almacambiondaughterofsaleos]

Look At Zoophobia's Criticism And You See It Spill Onto Helluva Boss

Before Vivziepoop was known for Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss, she was also known for this series she did back in her college years, Zoophobia. It ran for four years and stopped due to her losing steam from it and not handling the criticism regarding it. And not handling criticism is going to be a big theme in this.

The rating summary shows a lot of criticism she had on this work sounds familiar doesn't it. The art is great, but you know it can be hit or miss when it comes to backgrounds. The story is supposed to be grand, but it ends up being one heck of a letdown because the writer doesn't know when to pick up or move the plot. Also they just dump future players and we neve really get to it. And again designs of characters aren't interesting or engaging as we are seen in how she repeats or makes them extremely gaudy. Again this is all from someone who never took criticism from her own series from heart and it doubled down.

Biggest complaint as we are seeing in the current day is that she's an immature woman who cries when she's criticized and throws tantrums whenever she people call out on her behavior. So those aspects always were with her but we ignored them based on the superficiality presented with Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss. Mostly because we thought she moved on but we were proven wrong.

Also look at her reaction due to her bad webcomic entry. On the surface it might seem civil, but we all know underneath she's seething big time about anyone giving her well deserved criticism about her overpraised shit.

Again when you look back at Zoophbia's issues and see things in Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel the issues are still prevalent and will lead to the downfall of both series since Vivziepop refuses to budge.

#helluva boss #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop critical #vivziepop #anti-vivziepop #bad webcomics wiki #zoophobia #zoophobia criticism #zoophobia critical #anti-zoophobia

[weaselbeaselpants]

Hey ya'll (@rockanroller, @chaifootsteps, @theoddest1) I'm sorry to sound like a nag but I seriously think it'd be best not to give the Bad Webcomics Wiki attention for being some of the first people to publicly hold any criticism of Vivziepop. YMMV in as far as how anyone wants to fully blacklist all the advice ever made there, but speaking as a person who saw all of it happen:

>LincarRox, Viv's personal stalker-creeper hung out there w he was kicked out of HH aminos for being a jealous freak. He then tried to take down Starlatte, -who was also a user there and is known now- , the woman infamous for trying to get her rewrite of Hazbin canonized by Viv.

>As I can't stress enough, (Gooseworx was also aware of it), amongst the doofy haters and layabouts was a guy on there who sent Viv graphic r@pe art of Angel Dust fucking her decapitated head. I think the thread from there showing that evidence is gone now but yeah it's still up on Viv's Encyclopedia Dramatica entry.

All three of these instances seriously crossed the line and no I don't think pointing out what Viv and other SH people did is bad justifies those things.

And yes, since it was one of the only places for awhile w any critical discussion of Viv was discussed, it means that some of the earliest known exfans and detractors have used said forums. As with KiwiFarms, I trust individuals who happen to use websites like that for whatever reason, but I don't trust those sites as a whole.

Sorry. I swear I'm not trying to start some shit, guy. I just think these facts shouldn't be forgotten. Selfishly I also just Viv's stans and supporters are prolly gonna use that against ppl, but realistically I was also a young kid reading BWW's entries on MoonOverJune and shit and when I saw Zoophobia get added it was surreal and I visited the thread on that every day- I saw in real time people make genuine criticisms, shoot the shit, and then BOOM rapeporn. Scars.

#vivziepop critical #helluva boss critical #hazbin hotel critical #bad webcomics wiki #vent #genuinely don't want to be a rewhisteblower but it was bugging me too much if this didn't get brought up

[waybrightgender]

google how to get someone to stop reading about crypto and using degenerate

#jesus christ. i tried to move them over to tumblr to get them off reddit but they just go back to the tumblr subreddit every time. #if i tell them to do something they do it but then they put a new and fascinating /neg spin on it #like i told them to follow more ppl on here and they followed about 50 ppl that seemingly never post and i told them to make their cute #little project a sideblog so they can rb stuff but they made it their main and cant rb anything now #i tell them to be vague about the details of homestuck so that their mom doesnt stop trusting me and they decide its a better idea to keep #calling it a cringey bad old webcomic that i really love because i have bad taste #i tell them to stop using degenarate because its a nazi dogwhistle but they decide thats just stupid i guess and keep using it #i think theyre gonna become a crypto bro they have like 5 books about it #they've been on reddit since they were like 10 i dont think i can get them out of there but they should at least go on better subreddits #instead of r/iam14andthisisdeep and r/tumblr and r/whitepeopletwitter and r/nonpoliticaltwitter and who knows what else #its especially the r/tumblr part that i dont get. because they literally have a tumblr account #if theres a specific user that you see making posts you like on the subreddit go follow them! scroll thru tags of things you like and follo #all the blogs! be annoying and put out a post asking for mutuals tagged with fandoms you like! #oh and they rlly like r/nosleep i wish i could get them to go on the creepypasta wiki instead because at least thatll give them some shared #references with the wider internet and ppl their age. their mom has literally no pop culture references whatsoever so im trying to help the #but its honestly really hard when they dont do what i tell them to do. jesus i sound awful dont i #real sasha waybright moment. “you are going to follow 100 more blogs and turn off algorithm stuff now. end of discussion.” #it's not like they have a community and friends on reddit they dont even have an account theyve been lurking for years #they dont even have the app they use the mobile website. ugh im being so bitchy rn ill just shut up #maybw if yall see that this is how i think then youll realize that im not exactly worth interacting with #sorry for spiraling on ya. im pmsing. #and i have a whole disorder about that so

[carideatheecreative]

"this webcomic uses too many buzzwords!" and then the person writing the page procceds to use a zillion buzzwords in just one paragraph

#blog.oidea #bad webcomics wiki page of strong female protagonist is... something

[chaifootsteps]

You know I could overlook most of Viv's flaws as an artist. Same face/body syndrome? Ehhh, I'm guilty of it. Over complicated, nonsensical designs? A guilty pleasure. Way too large of a cast? I read Zoophobia. I liked it, despite its many flaws. But I cannot forgive her for being so ... mean. She's mean and vindictive and controlling and cruel and she was given such an opportunity!!! I mean yeah she was already rich but she's living the dream!!! Her own show? Near complete creative control?! I would kill to be in her position. How could she not be grateful for everything that's been given to her? For all the people who helped and supported her? I can forgive a sloppy, over indulgent project. I even support it. But I just can't wrap my head around someone so lucky and blessed being so cruel...

Honestly, whenever I think of Viv, I think of Albert Temple, AKA Gene Catlow. He had multiple webcomics, none of them good, entries on CYD and the Bad Webcomics wiki, and after he died, it turned out that his longterm girlfriend and circle of innermost art friends were all sockpuppets played by himself. In spite of all that, he's remembered fondly by just about the entire fandom -- even places that openly hate furries -- and do you know why that is?

Because he was nice. Always had a kind word or was up to do an art trade, maybe even give you some gift art. If you were a new artist, he'd do his best to lift you up. Friends, critics, random people online, Temple was unfailingly and sincerely nice to them all.

Given the choice between him and Viv, I know which legacy I would choose in a heartbeat.

#Anonymous #vivziepop critical #viv stuff #actual blog post #vivziepop

[ponett]

Hello, wanted to say thank you, I'm really glad I found your work and I find your insights very helpful.

I wanted to ask something strange, as someone who has gone out of their way to dedicate a very detailed blog to the works of an outspoken artist, can you give me advice how to maintain healthy distance with ideas and individuals I might outright oppose, but have morbid sense of curiosity about them? Or it it just better to not indulge at all?

It's a difficult balance to achieve, and I won't pretend I've always been perfect about it on TKP

The thing is that you have to not obsess over the person too much. You have to focus on their work, not detailing every single thing they've ever done or said to keep receipts on them. You do not, under any circumstances, want to turn into the freaks who make and watch hundred hour long "documentaries" on CWC and Sonichu, or the people who run the Bad Webcomics Wiki

The point is to do media criticism, not to make a callout blog. Details the artist has shared about their life may sometimes help inform your reading of the work - art isn't made in a vacuum, and artists' life experiences and worldviews often shape their art. But you don't need to pry too much and piece together their full life story and psychoanalyze them if that information isn't already available in an autobiography or whatever

On TKP, one of the most important things I do to try and keep that distance is simple: I don't follow Penders on Twitter. I don't need to know every single thing he says, nor do I need to report on it. I'll check in when I hear he's made some kind of announcement regarding his work, and when looking for behind the scenes info I'll sometimes term search on his Twitter because he's far more vocal about what happened behind the scenes than the rest of that creative team, but that's it. I'm not thinking about him every day. I also haven't gone in-depth on his non-Sonic work to help drive home the idea that TKP is a blog about the American Sonic comics with a quippy url, not a blog about shitting on Penders

(On that note: I don't interact with him directly, either. I do not need to dunk on him in his Twitter replies. I do not need to lure him into an interview where I totally own him. I am not sending him my criticism like he owes it to me to read it and improve his work. I leave the guy alone)

As the blog has gone on I've also tried much harder to be objective about him and his work. I'll admit that early on, before the blog blew up, I was eager to see what all the drama was about and why everybody hated the guy. But my goal isn't just to find excuses to hate on him, or to spread baseless gossip, and that shouldn't be the mindset you go in with. I've offered praise for some of his work where I thought it was deserved, and I frequently correct people on misunderstandings about him and the lawsuits, even defending him on certain points

This is an extremely basic and hopefully obvious element of good media criticism, but it should also be said that just because an artist depicts something doesn't necessarily mean they endorse it, and that your goal isn't to piece together the artist's beliefs based on their work and then call them out over it. It can go the other way around - you can analyze how an artist's stated beliefs and values are reflected in their work - but, like, Penders writing a story where Knuckles decides to forgive his shitty fascist uncle for no reason does not mean that Penders is a Nazi apologist. It's just a story.

Again: your main goal should be to criticize the work, not the artist

And, of course, a huge factor is simply how famous the creator in question is (and also if the creator is still alive). You wanna do a deep dive on the works of Steve Ditko and criticize his Randian objectivism? Go nuts, buddy! You wanna shit all over Lovecraft? Have at it! Wanna tear apart the neoliberal politics of Harry Potter? Well, okay, Shrieking Shack already did that one. But if the person you're thinking of doing a sprawling, in-depth teardown on is, like, a smalltime webcomic author? Some hobbyist indie dev? A fanfic writer? That sort of thing? Hell, even someone in the middle like a cartoon storyboarder, or a freelance writer who does articles for Kotaku sometimes? Maybe reconsider. Just because someone's online doesn't mean they're a Public Figure, and there's a line where a deep critical dive on someone's work quickly turns into painting a target on their back

(This ended up being more about Criticism than how to just engage with stuff you hate, but also you can just, like. Look away. And find something else spend your time thinking about.)

#bluebobo3 #ask

[flower-boi16]

The reason why viv can't take criticism can be a mixture of many factors, but most immortantly her low self-esteem. Being an underdog in an animation industry put her through many criticism from those from this field. It could be that she always compares herself with others. Seeing way more talented people or people who can write better than her, making her feel incompetent and inferior. So whenever anyone tried to give her feedback, she made excuses on her writing mistakes as a shield to protect her own ego.

Personally I think it's just because she's heavily immature. Her maturity was always questionable to begin with (at least according to the Zoophobia review on the bad webcomics wiki). Viv is far from the most hateable person on the internet I've seen but she doesn't really seem like the nicest person either. She whines about criticism of her shows on twitter, is heavily immature, lied about someone with a non-con fetish being an SA survivor in a poor attempt at deflecting criticism, doesn't credit people, and is also an apparently abusive boss to her animators.

She may be an inspirational figure in indie animation, but she isn't really a good person and not someone to look up to. She clearly has not grown out of her teenage years.

#vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #vivziepop criticism #hazbin hotel criticism

[bananabreadcaramel-4]

Might contain minor spoilers to the fast pass.

This might be a bit of a stretch but Ive noticed that Sahed seems to be the wearing a joker themed mask.

I believe this to be an intentional character design. According to this Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(playing_card)), the Joker (the playing card) tends to be illustrated as a jester; a professional joker or ‘fool’ at a medieval court, that looks like something like this:

"The Joker can be a very beneficial card or a bad card to have. In Euchre (a card game) it is often used to represent the highest trump. In Gin Rummy it is wild. However, in the children's game of Old Maid, a solitary Joker represents the Old Maid, the card to be avoided."

This could symbolise the unpredictable nature of saheds character and how we, as fans, cant tell if he will turn out to be another antagonist or an ally to julia.

Also, "The Joker is often compared to "(the) Fool" in the Tarot or Tarock decks. They share many similarities both in appearance and in play function."

According to The Fool's Tarot card, it could have two interpretations depending on if the card is upright or reversed. I found this one article (https://astrotalk.com/tarot/the-fool) that is a bit long but here is a small summary:

Upright The Fool card is usually considered a positive tarot card as it indicates new beginnings.

"Moreover, it also signifies the infinite potential and innocence of the person when he is about to start his life. If The Fool card appears in your tarot card reading, it shall mean that you are about to start a new and exciting adventure in your life. This adventure would bring you new leanings along and demands a leap of faith in the process which is in front of you. But, with that, it promises you firmly new experiences."

Could this possibly hint at where the story will take him as a character? Freedom from the circus and a fresh start? Would that make him the embodiment of that card?

Anyways, "The Fool in a reversed situation definitely means new beginnings. However, you shall jump into decisions foolishly, without thinking. Your decisions would be reluctant, and you would be too impulsive to take them." You shall run into the most dangerous things without fear and see yourself sometimes in situations that shall affect you negatively in the long run."

The riot plan from episode 28 seems very risky and could potentially go wrong. I think that since this is the beginning of the story, that saheds character leans more on the reverse The Fool card before eventually switching over to the upright The Fool card (no, I am totally not obsessed with this webcomic).

#marionetta #sahed marionetta #marionetta webtoon

[lune-redd]

im not to familiar with ppg fan comic stuff (im just recently been getting into the show for a while) but if i may ask

what is ppgd? and who created it?

Powerpuff Girls Doujinshi (PPGD for a short) is a webcomic that features not only the Powerpuff Girls, but a bunch of other cartoon characters from other Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon shows as well. Sounds cool, right? The same cannot be said about the execution jfc. The story is very all over the place and I consider it to be extremely angsty for a story based on the fucking Powerpuff Girls.

The webcomic was created by artist Bleedman, who lets just say is a... questionable individual. I remember hearing something about him doing weird things with other people's OCs. Also he's a pedophile. It really shows in the ways he draws little girls

Bad Webcomics Wiki's page on the comic better explains the criticisms behind it than I do.

Give it a read if you'd like to!

#ppg #powerpuff girls #ppgd ranting #asks

[thewebcomicsreview]

really enjoying you just casually and unintentionally providing a better and appropriately scathing review of BWW than BWW has ever done of anything.

What, like it's hard?

#Bad Webcomics Wiki

[peathepirate]

I was today years old when I found out that there's an entire wiki dedicated to bad webcomic reviews.

In completely unrelated news, I suddenly have a new fear unlocked!

#how did i find this wiki you may ask #well i'd just finished reading a comic i enjoyed and was googling for the creators socials when a review for the comic popped up #sure the comic had its flaws but i don't think it was that awful it needed an entire article bashing it #it was parallax #also i didn't find the socials #the creator seems to have vanished #peatalks

[weaselbeaselpants]

Not a Receipt-post. Just venting cuz it's twice now I've gotten this really accusatory ask, again:

Q: "Why do you 'HATE' Vivziepop??"

Short answer: I don't hate her. I hate how her fans can NOT take criticism,

because -> they have 0 boundaries with Viv -> whenever someone does criticize the shows in any way, they (the fans) -> embarrass you in front of the Spindlecrew who -> have no reason NOT to take the fan's word on how 'awful' you are, and so -> inadvertently ignore/condone your harassment.

Long answer:

I don’t know Viv and I never have.

I watched her YEARS ago back on deviantART when she was Vivzmind. I really loved her art and I still do. The few times I ever interacted with Viv, when I commented on her shizz, I remember her being fun, casual, and nice. True, maybe I don't know the "real her", whoever that is, but I have few if any qualms with Viv on a personal level. Judging every single artist who makes creative decisions you disagree with by John K standards is fucking hyperbole. I don't hate her.

What I HAVE always hated, and the thing that eventually drove me to quietly stop following Viv in 2013, are her fans....

we really need to start talking about them, okay?

~~~~Part 1 ~~~~~~ my experience, the Vivziepop standom THEN

There were two kinds of Vivzmind groupies back in the day, 1) the majority, aka ppl like me, and 2) this one very specific kind of Vivz-stan. While the basic majority of fans (me) were as lovebombing and prone to hype as anyone would be about the artist they admire, the people who were REALLY rabid for Viv's attention (stans) felt possessive. They felt hostile. Like, imagine you say outloud that you like the popular kid at school cuz everyone does and there'd be a weird false friend of theirs listening in, constantly @ing you with "yeah, well I like her MORE" or coming to their defense on perceived slights against her. I'm sure a lot of it was based in just social ineptitude and not anything too serious, but again it was beyond what was usual for popular DA artists.

When people say “Viv can not take criticism”, what they really mean is these fans could not take criticism.

I know all I have to go on is heresay given that much of her gallery and old work is gone but here's what I remember:

>>If you were a newbie follower and you accidentally did something Viv vocally didn't like, you'd pay for it. If you were like me and said once Viv’s art reminded you of neopets, Viv herself would say nothing but these fans would tear you to shreds for daring to not know Viv’s comfort zone. >>If you were asking for context on what was happening in one of her pics with characters you didn’t know, fans would inform you in a passive aggressive manner. "HOW DARE you not remember! Viv posted it, ugh yer so annoying, Felicia"

>> One thing Viv def did not like was people “stealing” her artstyle - not tracing or using her art w/o permission, just very clearly being inspired by her in making their own characters or pictures. She hated that. I get how, when you’re JUST a popular artist on the site it can seem annoying, like someone’s Patrick-Star-ing your every move while acting like they don’t know you...that's rough, trust me, but it’s STILL not the same as art theft-! Even so, Viv complained and would post journals about artists “stealing” her style. One time she happened to do this to an artist I did art trades with. Because of Viv's 'endorsement', he left dA forever. His profile was bombarded by passive-aggressive to just straight up mean Vivstans dogpiling him about how he "needed to give Viv credit". One of the few times I talked to Viv it was to say "hey I know you’re mad, but this guy’s kind of my friend", to which she said to me "tell you friend that it’s wrong and not okay to do this." So I did. He told me he more than knew by that point and was off the site within the week. This was long before I just fell out of interest and stopped watching her, but it always left a bad taste in my mouth that I did that. That's the thing: there's no big-style discourse, just a lot of little microaggressions that'd build up and wear you down.

Ppl often characterize "white knights" as being directed by their beloved artist to do the deed, but, as far as I know, Viv has never been the "DEFEND MY HONOR"-type. Viv never seemed to talk to these uber fans AT ALL; she was far more abt chit chatting with her friends and casual viewers. The vibe I always got wasn’t that Viv weaponized her worst fans’ behavior, it’s that she ignored them and also ignored how they may have hurt the rest of us. On paper nothing about Viv saying “ya’ll, I’m tired of these specific comments abt my work; copycats; non criticisms being dished,” is wrong. It’s that her underground stan-base would be the ones to pounce on you for it, for whatever reason I don't know. Maybe it was some kind of bid for Viv’s approval or maybe it was just cuz they felt better doing it; THAT is what you feared. So, when Viv did the bare minimum of get peeved at someone or something, it was a circumstance that meant nothing if it’d happen to any other artist but it would hurt because there was her initial judgment, and then there was her followers' judgment. This is important because while I think this exact attitude/relationship has changed, like hell do I think it’s gotten better...

~~~Part 2~~~The Spindlehorse chain of command, aka Vivziepop now

Now that Viv's the auteur creator of a beloved Indie series, I fully believe Viv's base has matured into a DIFFERENT breed of toxic. I’m always stressing this because it couldn’t be stressed enough: Hazbin Hotel is a preemptive fandom: It was made with the help of numerous internet famous animators collabing with an already devotedly popular creator at the helm; it was promised and hyped and kept up as a fandom before there was ever even a product (the pilot) out, and way before it was properly picked up in 2020; because so many internet people were working on it, it was a darling to many the animation/art scene on youtube+ people had a deep attachment to it; the fans have almost direct access/ability to talk to the showrunners directly and vice/versa, so the fans feel very ‘in’ on the show in a way other budding cartoon fandoms couldn’t really say. All these elements mean that Hazbin+Helluva are made with a great deal of love, devotion, and earnestness to them. It’s a very passionate, very close-knit community and just so we're clear, there's nothing wrong with that.

It just also means that the creator and the fans do not have great boundaries with each other and I think may be a little blindsided by the joy of creation. Where back in the day the 'old verse-same-as-the-first' would be Viv'd have a tiff w someone and that someone w be bombarded by basement stans, now there’s a different kind of vicious circle at play:

when the HH/HB fan communities hear rumors of “a critic” or “a bully” (usually just negative reviews /redesigns/fan theories that contradict what the creator wants) there’s a real threat of that 'critique' working it’s way up the chain of command TO the creators themselves. And by 'critique', I mean the real words and intent being taken out of context or twisted to fit the stans' pov. (ex: "Stolitz is a bad ship and Stella is a wasted villain" get's telephoned into "I hate that these characters are gay; I want Stolas to go back to his abuser")

The creators have no incentive of their own to comment on this bs. They're busy. BUT, because they are just as much the makers of as they are fans of their own show they feel the need to comment on any controversy they hear because they don’t want things getting out of hand. On paper, understandable; But in practice-

-the Spindlehorse crew don’t really know the context of the situation. They take it on good faith that their fans aren’t misrepresenting things to them, to which they then say nothing to stop people from being harassed, OR-

-they casually dish out their own comments in response to a situation they’re not actually a part of.

In 2018 Frootrollup1, a then-underage fan, drew redesigns of the cast of Hazbin because she draws redesigned versions of all of her fandoms → some fans saw her art as mocking/attacking Viv because assholes have done their own redesigns of Hazbin to spite Viv in the past → these same fans took their complaints to Twitter where a bunch of people, including Viv, all dunked on Frootrollup for being another “hater”...and only backed off when they learned her age and that it wasn’t a pic drawn in spite. "Oops." Frootrollup WAS a fan of Hazbin. She’s not anymore because people took her art out of context, had their own kneejerk reactions to it, and embarrassed her in front of the creator directly, who took these people’s sides. This isn’t an isolated incident and it keeps happening because the crew doesn’t discourage fans from reacting or asking for their input on crap that shouldn’t involve them. 

“Lots of fanbases have shitty fans” is not the point here. Hazbin/Helluva are a unique case. Yes all fandoms kinda suck, technically, and any case where you have the creators reacting to fans is gonna get parasocial. My point is that Spindlehorse is waaay to accustomed to their fandom as fans themselves and not outside viewers.

Remember back in 2015, when that one Steven Universe fan was being bombarded for her problematic art when it was really just a glorified hate campaign by some of her ex friends wanting to bad mouth her to the fandom?; and then IT WORKED? Imagine now that one of the people running the hate campaign on her had taken the 'evidence' to the Crewniverse directly, and Rebecca Sugar herself was like “wow, what a bigot!”- adding to the dogpile of hate that almost got that fanartist to kill herself??? Scary hypothetical, I know, but that's what scares me about this. If that isn’t already happening already, with a bunch of critical fans and redesign-artists going silent out of fear of the Vivbase, then it’s at a real threat of becoming a reality. 

-----brief aside, we gotta mention Tapatalk and why they're awful and you shouldn't dismiss them/accidentally condone them----

Complicating matters more is the BadWebcomicsWiki. While not KiwiFarms or 4chan, the wiki forums had the same problem of being made exclusively for bitching and moaning at webcomics ppl didn’t like (many of which were bad, but it's just as likely that should a webcomic DARE to be liberal or furry or lgbt themed it was suspiciously torn apart by people all too eager to note said things..). That is what the wiki and forum were made for. That is what they were always made for. Do not @ me abt how it was 'good once' or people had good intentions and didn't wanna use it for hate. I know, I'm getting to that ->

In 2015 When Zoophobia got a thread and later an article there, a bunch of randos from outside joined the forums simply because it was one of the first and only times where former Viv fans could congregate + explain all the details to the newbies+ talk about the bullying and microaggressions Viv’s base did that hurt them and how she did nothing to stop it; i.e. people started to use the shittybitch forums for genuine talk about the comic and criticism.

((never had, nor do I want a BWW account, but I used to check in every day back in 2015 for updates on one webcomic I hated before wising up and realizing the site was run by centrist chudheads. This is how I found out abt the Zoophobia discourse at the time))

The problem being that, when you go to a forum for any kind of dissenting opinion to be made, ANY KIND of dissenting opinion WILL BE made. It doesn’t matter if some ppl meant nothing wrong and just wanted a place to shoot the shit about how bad Viv’s stans were. A "bad-media-is-bad-lemme hate on it cuz I'm cool"-based wikiANYTHING is going to lead to truly bad behavior. That moment came for the ZPBWW forums when one user showed up posting graphic art of Angel Dust raping Viv’s severed head as a joke. If I remember right, and it's prolly still on their forum now, other users on the forum were mad that he did that, but it doesn't really matter. Viv HAD/HAS ALL the right to disassociate w that forum regardless of what, how, or why anyone else used it for. That’s what you do when your understanding of a website is-“oh, that place where people hate on every little thing I do including the guy who mailed me art of myself getting raped?”. And that’s before we even get to LincarRox/theToyTaker drama and how he scoured the BWW forums once he was kicked off the normal Hazbin fan scene for stalking/harassing Viv. 

The Vivstans know this harassment against her exists. They don’t understand the real depth of it, but they know it’s there. What they do is use that harassment’s existence to justify their own dogpiling. 

The most egregious part is, given how big the Spindlehorse fandom is, it’s not very hard at all for other fans- big name or indie creators, to be misinformed and believe only the stans’ versions of events without question → which adds even more stigma because if in this ‘cancel/DNI’-obssessed microculture we got on Twitter and Tumblr. People aren’t questioning or really knowing the situation any more than Viv does. Except, these people are just fans, not the showrunners, and should be more open to hearing (legit) criticism. They’re not and that’s leading to a lot of the regular fanbase to I think develop tunnel-vision. As an outsider, I can't tell you for sure if any of Erin Frost's claims are 'valid' or legit. The most upsetting thing by far though is HOW FAST people were to call her a liar or act like her complaints at Spindlehorse are "nothing".

tl;dr I think two truths currently coexisting at the moment are

Viv has been harassed and treated horribly by people saying they’re “just being critical”. I 110% believe this woman when she says she ‘hates creeps’. I've seen first hand some of those creeps. I don't envy her.

Viv and the Spindlehorse crew have terrible boundaries and foresight into their fandom’s innerworkings and should NOT be commenting on them- because they exacerbate the issues within.

Viv’s base in uniquely unhealthy and overprotective. From the stanbase on the fringe, to the excitable but vulnerable fans that make up the whole, to the creators themselves who aren’t equipped to micromanage or even just manage all this drama. I see a bubble of pent up aggression seeping under the surface of the Helluva/Hazbinverse fanbase and I’m really scared when it pops. 

I have no idea what’s actually going on with the Spindlehorse folks or what’s in their hearts. I’m not interested in rumors, and I’m SO not interested in stupid petty AntiHazbin shit that perpetuates the hateflow (PK Russel, BWW, DaftPina I'm lookin at yoooo). I want to be a fan of Helluva and be excited for Hazbin. I want to take part in all this seeing as I did follow Viv and still do like her art and her general attitude about animation. It’s always cool when someone you followed casually makes it big- you want to support them! But, I’m also just naturally skeptical and sardonic and critical of things I like. So I’m in constant fear that overprotective stans are going to take my words and embarrass me in front of Viv and crew. And that? That WILL def make me hate Hazbin. No, still not enough to join your weirdo AntiHazbinnie tags or stalker threads, but it WILL make me hate it.

I don’t want that, none of you fans want that, and I know the creators don’t want that to be happening on a mass scale with people who're just skeptical of their show.

In comparing Helluvaverse to any other animated show's online fandom, there's no one to one, but consider how rabid and anticritical Steven Universe was- consider how dismissive and gatekeepy the Rick & Morty fandom is, consider how inconsiderate of creator's boundaries the Bronies were. Hazbin isn't out yet and if Helluva goes for all long as Viv and Brandon intend, it's also in it's infancy. We all have an opportunity to fix these problems before it begins- I say we do our part.

#critical fandom #rick & morty critical #rick and morty #helluva boss #helluva boss critical #steven universe critical #steven universe #cw: rape #cw: online abuse #cw: stalking #vivziepop #tapatalk #bad webcomics wiki

[nicnavarrocage]

MS Paint Fan Adventures I'm thinking about and working on

I need to learn how to make an MSPFA account correctly, since any easy way doesn't work. But here goes the list!

Pre-Homestuck Inspired/Custom

My Little Pony is a retelling of the entire G4 MLP series in the style of an MS Paint Adventure, and not the Homestuck kind. I haven't watched the show since the start of this year and I gotta analyze every single scene from "Friendship Is Magic Part 1" to "The Last Problem" in order to get the story just like the show plot. It's currently in progress, but I didn't speed it up nor have I resumed it that much.

Camplife centers around 4 men in a camping site, eventually making way to a whole little town in a forest area. I've already done a few pages of it and have planned future events out of the comic, which I'll get to. It's planned to be half user controlled and half author controlled.

Homestuck Inspired

TGWTGQuest is about every member of the Channel Awesome community (Excluding the controversial ones, but even then they have to be mocked) and a bunch of bullshit adventures they partake in, mostly centered around the Nostalgia Critic. This might be more of a well-made shitpost than a real adventure because Channel Awesome's content really sucks. But hey, I began writing the planned pages for it! (I guess I have no clue how to make an MS Paint Adventure right, skull skull)

Caraku Levhat is about a young oliveblooded detective who resolves a bunch of federal issues and vast errors near and around the city he's in. The titular protagonist will probably have that Darkwing Duck personality if I can actually write that down.

The narration will be entirely built as a 1st person perspective from our main character, meaning everything that's told will be coming out of his own, hard-boiled words.

I can't read Homestuck so I'll just get some research outta the MSPA Wiki to help me be accurate a bit.

Jokes

Imagine a really bad gaming comic in the form of an MS Paint Adventure, minus the MS Paint and plus the Photoshop. Buckleyquest is basically most of the Ctrl+Alt+Del's comics (I have a terrible sense of humor so I can't tell if they're funny or not) that can be controlled through user input or author's choice. It has the same artstyle as the comic, albeit the first few panels, and sometimes, I have the potential to mock Ctrl+Alt+Del and its author in the fan adventure. It's gonna be the stupidest one I've made.

Dooj, simply put, is Homestuck, except a simple command will either change the storyline, change a character, add a character, or fuck everything up completely. And what's the command? DOOJ. Other commands made up as a weird word will also be included, such as MOOK, intended to revert the comic to its original story, and FOOP, which pauses the story automatically, shifting to the MSPA Reader's perspective.

Dooj may also include mockery against Homestuck, mockery against Andrew Hussie and his friends, sometimes shit I hate to write out, and cameos of characters and scenes from other webcomics.

I'm also making a similar project called KATEDREW MITCHUSSIE'S MAGNUM OPUS, which will mock Homestuck: Beyond Canon and will have a similar premise to DOOJ.

I was also planning to make a Jerkcity adventure but that would probably be controversial.

#mspfa #mspfanventures #ms paint fan adventures #ms paint adventures #homestuck #comics #plans

[weedle-testaburger]

people talk about shit tier wikis but imho the worst one is probably the bad webcomics wiki. 99% of their pages just consist of shitting on independent artists for being 'sjws' and the other 1% is fruit that's low-hanging it's basically on a potato plant

#personal crap #i mean it was like that back around 2018 when i discovered it and i wouldn't be surprised if it still is

[mascgf]

i don't have the audacity to create a webcomic. when i was like 13 i followed a webcomic on here and they publicly posted to the webcomic blog that they were terrified of being put on the bad webcomics wiki and getting nightmares about it.