#bad unsafe sex or whatever . like do you not see how female characters are treated by fandoms . whine about that instead it's much worse

[lobotomyladylives]

I’m a fujoshi rights activist I don’t even care.

my blog is a #safespace for our kind

#every criticism ive ever heard applies to hetshipping also . wonder why ppl single out gay ships when they complain abt ooc or tropes or #bad unsafe sex or whatever . like do you not see how female characters are treated by fandoms . whine about that instead it's much worse #asks

[imdreaminadream]

The results pt 2 ~ what about it makes you cringe?” Category 3

( - prologue.   - part 1  - category 1  - category 2 )

Okay so this is the results to the question in the quiz, What about it makes you cringe. In reference to the questionnaires core subject about smut fanfics.

Also quick psa there will be a part for the results for the other question -  “In kpop fics, Korean words i.e. jagiya, seem to be a no no, would you like to elaborate why?”

Now note these particular results are going to be split into 3 posts because I decided to split the results into 3 categories. 1 - Writing Aspects. 2 -  Personal Preferences. 3 - Genuine Problems.   >This post is category 3<

TRIGGER WARNINGS FOR MENTIONS OF - rape, minors engaging in sex, child pornography, childhood trauma, unsafe bdsm/kinky sex, misogyny?, toxic masculinity? anything else that needs to be tagged message me so I can add them.

DISCLAIMER BELOW. (please read that before continuing)

This is going to be a long post. The responses were very enlightening but please don’t take this as an attack. Consider this more as constructive cheat sheet to good smut writing or just ignore it if you don’t agree with it. Some of this did a bit deep apricate trigger warnings will be put on the appropriate posts but I’m not sorry it got deep fics can also affect real life as much as we wish it were something that didn’t mix in with real life, it does. I’m no official like sex guru or big-time writer, or what ever BUT I did add little advice underneath each answer, which are just a reflection of the people’s answers. Again if you don’t like the sounds of this don’t take it personal and click off.

Genuine problems

Rape territory - There was a common theme of people commenting about what is essentially edging into rape territory. This was talked about with both sexes, where one expresses, they’re not in the mood but the other just continues to make advances on them until they end up having sex. Everyone who spoke about it mentioned it comes across as coercive or forceful (which would be dubious consent, but I personally know how no one tags it as that because they don’t realize.) something that makes them immediately stop reading and knocks an author’s credit in their eyes. When a character is crying as though they’re not enjoying it, but the sex doesn’t stop and there is not safe word that is used.

No advice for this just use common sense.

Lack of tags which indicate trigger/content warnings - This only came up a handful of times but considering its importance I added it in here to talk about. The comments about it were straight forward as is the topic. Some authors aren’t tagging their work appropriately and it’s actually quite dangerous. You tag your work for a reason to let people know what is involved in it before they read, tagging everything is crucial. If something isn’t tagged you risk the reader, at the very least, the reading but then feeling discontent because it had something in they don’t like to read. Then at the worst you risk people’s mental health, you risk them having panic attacks, anxiety attacks because their trigger was in your fic but they didn’t know because it wasn’t tagged for them to see and know not to read because it could trigger them.

Advice for this is to bold things which you know for sure are sensitive topics, and make sure to tag everything in your damn fucking tag section. You risk people having panic attacks when you don’t tag your work right and they read your work only to find out it has their trigger included in it being blindsided because after reading your shitty tags they didn’t know but you put it in there. Also please don’t just tag smut, tag everything included in that smut because something works are tagged smut and then next thing you know person b is being choked, clothes cut by a knife, restrained with rope, told they’re a slut/whore.

They’re a minor - This also only came up a handful of times, not because people don’t care but probably because they don’t commonly come across it enough however this is incredibly important topic even outside of what about smut makes you cringe. This shouldn’t be a problem, as in it shouldn’t be happening as the people who commented, me and all of you know. They’re a minor, under 18, they’re technically still considered child in the law’s eyes anything sexual about them, like writing smut about them would be considered child pornography. “Things that persons under 18 are prohibited from doing - being depicted in pornographic materials.” No one even cares about “but I’m the same age as them uwu.” It still doesn’t make it right so don’t try and use excuses. Also, the minute a person turns 18 if your first thought is oh, I can write smut about them or request someone to write it for me please just leave that’s like preying on them as though you counted down till they were 18 and now the only value you see in them is for sex.

Mine and everyone else’s advice DON’T FUCKING DO IT.

Also, to note I don’t know what the official rules are for age swapping so like writing an adult person as a minor and depicting them in smut materials, to cope with your trauma, would anyone be open to talking to me about it, like educating me? There has just been this sudden wave more fics being, it’s okay to write adult that I made a child in my fic engaging in sexual content because it helps me cope with my trauma. It just seems everyone’s started saying that and I don’t know how many are being genuine or using it as an excuse or gone with the flow treated it like a trend. Not to be rude just genuinely how legit is this? How many people who write it have genuinely experienced that trauma? P.s if you have experienced that trauma, I am genuinely so sorry and know I am not disrespecting or invalidating your trauma I promise.

Female Characters/misogyny? - Now what this means is everyone expressed how they hate the constant portrayal that it only takes seconds for a female to reach an orgasm and she already wet to go like some kind of tap. They also highlighted a big problem with constantly painting the female as this innocent, dainty, dumb, naïve, shy, small, little girl. Women have brains too; women can give as good as they get and aren’t these shy naïve little playthings. All women have different personalities, the stereotypes about women in fics I’ve seen through the answers, and myself in fics, to my questionnaire is upsetting everyone. And you can see why, is it not bad enough we are subjected to misogyny and stereotyped in real life but now we have to see it in fics too. It genuinely does make people stop reading, it makes them cringe as the answers have suggested. One person mentioned this in their response, and I feel it should also be included, “y/n is absolutely okay with everything being done to her.” This isn’t something we should ever hear. This category feels like the right category to mention it so just consider their words, consider why that makes them cringe at smut writing that includes that.

To everyone the advice is a no brainer when you look at the responses. Make sure that the female character is actually getting turned on like into the mood before even thinking about mentioning that she is wet. And consider that a lot of statistics and personal experiences of other women stating it’s not all that easy to orgasm during sex, and not typical for her to come before the male, so make it sound like it’s worth the female characters while not that they do it for 3 minutes and suddenly she is coming.

Please also STOP with the constant bullshit of stereotyping of women as exampled above. If you like to feel small or submissive or whatever in the bedroom and you express that in your fics I get you but that does not mean you have to portray the female character as dumb, naïve, small, weak like for the love of god spice it up a bit, make her powerful, clever, with personality etc.… being in charge of her own body, knowing about her body, and what she wants and how to get it.

Btw no one is saying it’s not okay to be shy and that before you come in here like “why are you shaming shy, or small girls or dd/lg kink,” it’s not that I can assure you. We’re talking about the stereotype of it that is used to make the women seem more pliable for the man to control essentially not the genuine personalities/kinks people have.

Very passive sub female reader and overly dom male - Now many people spoke how an over macho dom male, and a passive - made out like they’re dumb, submissive female is a dynamic that is making them cringe now. It’s not a dynamic they care for anymore, and I agree with them especially considering the issues it brings about. “ Whenever the female reader is extremely passive and shy/flustered whereas the idol/character is extremely assertive/condescending/dominating/leading everything in comparison.” There is a personal preference to this yes# people acknowledged this, however when talking about this dynamic they further explained the issues with it. Overly passive female has already been touched on but to reiterate the replies insinuated they’re sick of seeing women in fics treated how they are in real life essentially – like some dumb little girl. One person said, “I like when the girl can give as good as she gets, though that’s just my preference.” So, like what has been discussed before this portrayal of females it absolute bullshit and needs to fucking stop being such a constant portrayal. (mind break is different so don’t start)

Then for the male side of things it’s enforcing the stereotype men are macho an alpha male, they don’t have feelings they just think with their dick and have all grr I’m super toxically manly do you ever lift bro, I’m so strong, I get all the bitches, fuck all the girls, the have control over the passive female and not in a consenting way, in an entitled way. Which no, they can have feelings, they can be softer more feminine all whilst still identifying as a man. They can be submissive just as much as a anyone else, they can be a switch or just a dom that isn’t this macho, macho, man. They can be needy, loving, caring, in touch with themselves, their feelings and everything the female character is made out to be, apart from dumb, naïve and weak of course, yano all those negative things any gender and non-gender people want to be associated with. If the guy wants to get railed by the female and be the sub in the dynamic of male x female, then fair enough let it happen there isn’t nothing wrong with it.

All in all, it’s okay for males to be more feminine than masculine and females more masculine than feminine. It’s okay to portray that in fics genuinely. I wouldn’t say I have any advice for this other than the obvious no more macho man and passive females.

Use of Korean words. - If you’re not a Korean person don’t think you’re in the right to argue about this. The Korean people have spoken up and you will listen and respect them. Know this is an important topic, however there will be a separate post for this, so I’ll keep this bit short to then expand on more in the separate post. Just wanted to make you the reader aware that this is an issue.  It’s not okay to be treating noona, unnie and oppa like a kink if you are not Korean, or have Korean heritage. The people who are Korean so kindly explained, it was a normal word for them like just another part of their culture until bad egg kpop fans got their hands on it and they have now sexualized it to the point where some Korean people do not feel comfortable to even use it without thinking of the sexual connotation it has now been given. 

Now like I said I will talk further about that and more, to do with the use of Korean words in fics, in another post, I don’t already have that post drafted so it might take a while to get out and post. However in that time I’m gladly open to hearing more people who are Korean and have Korean heritage, views on this. Or if you too have experience with a word from your language having been taken from being an innocent word to now having a sexual connotation as well because of people not from your country/culture having given it that sexual meaning. It could be helpful to further emphasis the point about the Korean words but also show overall no matter the language/country that it’s making the people of that country/culture uncomfortable. 

Also I hope it doesn’t come across like I’m trying to speak over Koreans. If anything i want to be helpful more than a hinderance. This was something that was spoken about on the questionnaire so I’m just writing what the Korean people have expressed about it in the questionnaire. I want to be able to give their voices from the questionnaire a platform and shed light on this situation, with them.

Also can I ask if gender is a factor in this as well? I’ve seen on tiktok where some Korean guys like being called oppa but I’m not sure if that's in a respectful light or a sexual light, if they were being sarcastic for the Korea-boos or? but i have never seen women say they like being called noona in a way that comes across as a turn on? So can anyone comment on that? send me anons pls.

Too much degradation - Of course everyone who has mentioned this has said it is quite a personal preference thing, the acknowledge that it’s a kink not for everyone. Although on the flip side them relentlessly mentioning it give the feel that it’s becoming more of a problem and less of it’s okay it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. You see they exampled “bitch, slut, whore.” It’s so commonly used, and they even said how they’re finding it not tagged majority of the time, so seeing that surprisingly in the fics constantly it makes them cringe but it’s not a type of thing one can get over it’s apparent it’s becoming a slight problem. It begs the question how much degradation is too much, why is it constantly being used in fics? Does everyone love labeling the female y/n a bitch, whore, slut? Why is the male y/n never called a slut as much as female y/n? Do females have more of a degradation kink than men?

I can’t think of any advice to give based on the feedback, apart from obviously add it to your tags that there is a lot of degradation but it there is anything anyone else wants to add on this topic feel free to re-blog with your take or send me anons.

Describing features on a y/n fic - A few people have mentioned this, and I categorized it as a problem because well it is because not only does it make them cringe in smut fics but also in normal fics and poc feel oppressed in yet another way. When it’s written as y/n it’s supposed to allow the reader to insert themselves into the fic to imagine themselves in there, yet it’s not always done like that. As one of the responses said, it seems authors like that tend to project themselves or their ideal selves onto y/n physical feature wise. More often than not as the responses have indicated y/n is portrayed as cis female, white, blonde, blue eyes, other physical traits such as breast size, dick size body type, height and hair length are portrayed too, which pulls the readers out of imagining because they’re being told they have features they don’t. It’s especially bad for poc because their race never gets portrayed in fics, so it gives the message white race is the most favorable and we already know how racist the world is no need to bring it into fics either unknowingly or purposely.

Moral of the story, stop racism, end it. Go educate yourself.

Moral of the story, in regard to fics, well don’t describe y/n thoroughly. Instead leave it as vague as possible, I mean it’s not even needed to know what eye colour y/n has when they’re in the middle of getting railed.

Quick intermission to just say make sure you tag what gender and pronouns y/n has for your fic, so people are fully aware what y/n they’re getting in this fic.

Nor do we need to know what skin colour they have, it can easily be mentioned that a character is touching y/n’s body without saying they have milky skin indicating they’re white. It is very possible to not give y/n a race. Also, height, keep height out of it don’t describe it because not everyone is 5’2. (hello yes, I’m 5’10 so imagine me reading character a of height 5’8 towering over me, I mean maybe if they wear heels yes but otherwise no.) Similarly, don’t ever describe body types, you can say an outfit flatters a person’s figure without describing it, people can have sex without their body being specifically described i.e., slim figure, toned shapely legs. Please understand that by not describing y/n you’re helping to contribute to racism, and these wacky beauty standards that are already being forced onto us in the real world never mind the fictional world. 

Lack of safe word - Following on from kinks not being portrayed correctly there is the issue of lack of safe word. Now this is something that again didn’t come up quite a lot but that doesn’t mean it’s not an issue. Some are writing fics where one of the people involved, are being railed to high hell and it’s kinky as fuck or you’re writing a BDSM specific fic. Which is okay we are not judging or shaming but it’s concerning how with all this type of sex being had there is no even slight mention of the pairing having a safe word which is has the name would imply really important. It is there to keep the people participating in this kinky sex safe, without that it’s really harmful. Now if you think oh but writing in the discussion of safe words is really unsexy, especially when I’m just trying to make the characters fuck really kinky, then please go educate yourself. Safe words are incredibly sexy when you know it means you get to have bomb ass kinky sex but know that you can also have boundaries that should and will be respected, and a word or system i.e. traffic light system, to pause or stop when ever you need to in order to keep the kinky sexy safe.

The obvious advice is to incorporate consent and knowledge of safe word in your fic. It can be as simple as writing that the characters stop a minute for person a saying to person b you know your safe word. And then writing a small mini paragraph of person b feeling even more in love and/or turned on because their boundaries are being respected. Then you just carry on with writing the smut. You can imply easily that they have a safe word, that it’s been discussed, therefore they’re gong to be safe, respected and made to feel good.

Also, I know there are some people out there who are, a bit unsure on writing a fic in which one person uses their safe word. This is your friendly supportive message to just do it, don’t be afraid of what others think, do it for you it’s something great to write. There are many different ways you can go with it, so you do it if you want to 😊.

Honorable mentions of things that make the people cringe.

(Not a problem just as we are at the end of this category I figured I’d put honorable mentions. disclaimer again, these are other people’s comments from the questionnaire. You are entitled not to agree with them however do not attack me as some have been doing.)

fetishize people’s gender or race/ethnicity

uneducated use of other cultures to make it look authentic

Use of the word plum when they mean plump. One’s a fruit/colour, the other means having a full rounded shape.

PICK ME Y/N (we all know the type)

Stereotypes of all kinds. Of people, phrases, troupes etc.….

Written in a way it sounds monotone. i.e., “He did this, he did that, I did this.”

 When all y/n does during a smut scene is whine. There are other synonyms people.                                                                               

infantilization of y/n. stop making me feel like the person who the fic is about, is a nonce.                                                                                      

y/n is constantly oh so innocent. Like they can be a virgin don’t get it wrong. BUT we all know 9 times out of 10 y/n reads fanfic so they ain’t innocent.· 

no refractory period. 

try hard humour in the middle of smut.

terrible euphemisms

proper unrealistic dick sizes

adding in smut into a plot where it doesn’t fit

try hard

more to come potentially?       

END OF CATERGORY 3

(Feel free to discuss in comments, in my messages or send anons or anything like that if you want.)

@nctsworld  @lauraneuuh @jooniyah  

 Tag list:

@ceoofxiaojun @lovemayble  @myelle-n

(@smutwritingpolice) (@smutwhy)

#nct smut #kpop #smut writing #smut writing advice #tvd #kdrama #kpop smut #bts smut #aomg smut #twice #jessi #itzy layouts #stray kids #ateez #the boyz #ikon #2pm #the originals #supernatural #marvel cinematic universe #marvel smut #dc smut #writing advice #how to write smut #google forms #advice on writing #shadow hunters #tfaws #noona kink #oppa kink

[kinkymagnus]

I love you (no Romo though) also do you have omega Magnus ideas

flkgjdgkdjfg mood anon

hm... ok this will probably be messy but let’s get on some highlights

OK THIS GOT SUPER LONG HAHAHA

set up and worldbuilding my guys

ok so first of all i feel like i gotta talk about how this interacts with trans magnus. i promise i’ll get to the fun stuff afterwards!!

i know some people like to go more into like, the realistic dynamics of a/b/o (trans a/b/o people, as in, a trans alpha who was born an omega, or like, sexism that has to do with a/b/o and those different new stereotypes, as well as like “non traditional a/b/o dynamics” like alpha/alpha or omega/omega relationships, how this interacts with new different sexualities (being attracted to only alpha females? alphas and betas and all primary genders? etc.) and how it intersects with REAL transphobia and sexism and sexuality) and like.... i have two takes on this i guess:

one: while this is not inherently wrong i guess, it’s just. not what i get from a/b/o. for me a/b/o isn’t a complex worldbuilding set to play with necessarily, although i def am one to ask questions and overthink worldbuilding even in the stupidest of shit. but like, i come to a/b/o for fluff (nesting, fluffy heat sex, maybe scenting and/or “mates” if i’m feeling it), smut (knotting, heats/ruts, etc.), and MAYBE angst but that gets into dodgy territory sometimes. (i’m a slut for arranged marriage aus tho ngl dfgkldjfdg.) like. that specific set of tropes is combined perfectly in a/b/o, and it’d be hard to do that in a coherent au as this is already established and saying “au where alec has knots and magnus has heats” is weird. the only other au that gets close is very specifically like a werewolf au which has its own trappings, you know? it’s a specific coherent and established au and it’s hard to separate the tropes i like from the other stuff.

two: again, i don’t think it’s inherently bad. but i do think that a lot of people who do this are basically just reinventing real issues like transphobia, homophobia/queerphobia, and sexism... without actually dealing with those things or the characters they would involve. and i think that it often strays into yikes territory. so like. i don’t love it. (also it does have some yikes stuff people do like going really, really hard on the oppressed omega angle, or worse, reinforcing the gender roles of omega = submissive soft weak baby, alpha = strong dominant and scary man. or sometimes they establish other roles but either way like, all their characters fall into that. and i think sometimes it kind of works for this feeling like a guilty pleasure trash romance novel where it’s just uncomplicated fantasy of being taken care of, but like.... even then it just gets dodgy, you know? also it does tend to get INCREDIBLY rapey.)

i often used a/b/o for the things i mentioned, and before i started writing trans magnus smut, also ironically as a way to sort of write trans magnus in smut without actually doing it out of fear of backlash/lack of popularity. and while backlash hasn’t been much of a problem, my popularity has definitely gone down fics-wise. (i get much less in the stats area on ao3 now)

and cis omega magnus is in a way basically trans magnus but he has a penis and there’s knotting. like i said, in many ways, a/b/o is sort of a way to write porn with trans characters while keeping to cisnormativity. i, as a trans person, took advantage of that to get more comfortable with writing it, but a lot of cis people use it basically to just. do that. you know.

so how do i reconcile this with trans magnus?

basically i say “fuck you, he’s trans AND an omega, i want heats/ruts and knotting and nesting and shit” and then ignore it lmao

like ok he isn’t cis. he’s afab and gnc and all the shit i normally write, it’s just like. he also gets heats and his ass doesn’t get wet dlfkjgdfg (god it sounds So Unappealing when you say it like that. now that i allow myself to write smut with real trans characters i could never go back to a/b/o--although, like. some a/b/o aus actually do have male omegas have a pussy but that feels even more slimy in the sense of just. make them trans.) and like alec’s an alpha and so on you know.

i basically just ignore all the complex worldbuilding shit and trying to figure out how sexuality and gender and the various -phobias and -isms would be effected by the addition of secondary genders and their trappings, and just go “fuck you” under the guise of an a/b/o au

tl;dr, so i have a lot of complicated feelings on a/b/o and how it generally is something i do not trust people to write properly. but i also am a total slut of a lot of tropes that are sort of entrenched in a/b/o specifically. namely, heats/ruts, knotting, nesting/scenting, etc.

let’s get into the fun stuff.

magnus and heats :)

ok so heats are super like. vulnerable, you know? i’d think magnus would take heat suppressants (ah another plot convenience in this au) because he doesn’t want to spend his heat with someone he doesn’t trust. that’s not to say he’s never had a heat with someone, or even that it’s been all bad experiences, but it never clicked super well i think and like, it’s something that’s very hard for him. because there’s a lot of vulnerability and trust involved, and he loses control and could so easily get hurt

also possibility: while he can take suppressants to lessen how many times he gets a heat, taking them consistently for literally centuries sounds like it could fuck someone up. so. perhaps. magnus occasionally spends his heat with a trusted friend like meliorn (not someone who feels like Family and therefore would it feel incesty, but def someone who is a close friend) and while he still doesn’t love the feeling of being that vulnerable, and it can be uncomfortable--it’s not like he’s looking forward to it--but like... he definitely does trust meliorn (and possibly other non canon characters?) and it’s not like it’s disgusting and miserable. it’s not like, The Same, but it satisfies the biological side of it and sometimes it’s even like. fun, you know? it’s nice.

ngl i actually kind of like the idea of meliorn helping him with these heats and being like a trusted alpha he knows would never hurt him like that. that does mess with any angst you want to go with him not trusting alphas or not like, having good experiences with heats/ruts (like in “stuck in a rut”), but like, different aus different stories, and anyway you could probably work something in there about meliorn specifically being different and someone he trusts

this is on and off, he sometimes does have heats with whatever romantic partner he’s with, although it... doesn’t always end well. so he has a lot of bad experiences, but at least with meliorn he has a good experience to look to, as well.

also camille was a TERRIBLE alpha. i can 100 percent see her using his heat against him to hurt him (and being like oh baby dont you trust me? you cant go to this seelie for your heats, you cant cheat on me, and why are you taking suppressants, dont you trust me--?) as well as potentially her ruts (actually a) im not sure i want to go into the logistics of a female alpha--would she... have a penis? because i’m not making camille a trans woman nor am i touching those transmisgyonistic vibes with a ten foot pole. b) actually, maybe she’s a beta. she could use that against him, as well--being like she doesn’t understand why it’s such a big deal, you know? also i refuse to believe only an alpha can satiate a heat even tho it would work the best because like--fuck i’m overthinking the worldbuilding again this is EXACTLY what i wanted to avoid. fuck, never mind.)

but like...........when he gets it (namely with alec, because yes, i am a slut) with like someone he honestly is a viable “mate” or someone he trusts and like, has actual romantic feelings for, too...............it’s literally mindblowing. magnus had no fucking idea heats could feel this good. obviously he had fun with meliorn and felt safe even if he felt kind of awkward/uncomfortable (not bc of anything meliorn did but his own issues with being vulnerable) but like............... alec just fucking makes him melt???

like he felt safe before, he did know meliorn would never ever hurt him or take advantage of his heat, but now he feels so like... free and safe and open? it’s not just the normal vulnerability that comes with but the complete lack of discomfort, just feeling absolutely safe and like. not worried at all? again i want to emphasize it’s not that he felt unsafe before or that meliorn necessarily did something wrong, but bc of his own like. readiness to be vulnerable + while he does trust meliorn, it’s like. it hits different with a romantic partner (in this specific context!! this is not a romantic > platonic thing), if that makes sense.

an y wa  y THE POINT IS. magnus is like. Mind Blown. having sex with alec during his heat is like. amazing. alec is so intent on taking care of him and just worshiping his body (alec!! ravishing him!! pressing warm kisses all over his tits!!! big hands all over his body!! caressing him everywhere and giving him physical affection all over and just making him squirm and moan!!!!!!) and like. not only is he absolutely intent on taking care of magnus and making him feel good and making sure he’s comfortable, but like also it’s just??? really fun?? and alec gives him so much affection and so many kisses???

magnus is not the best conversation partner during heat because he is a little. busy. but it doesn’t stop alec from talking to him and helping him stay grounded and just like... treating him like a person? he hadn’t realized one of the reasons he was so comfortable with meliorn and now alec wasn’t just bc he knew them well and trusted them with this kind of thing, but because like. they treated him like he was present despite him being mostly non-verbal and incoherent beyond vague pleading. like, they always made sure he was comfortable and talked to him and didn’t just do what they wanted with him. it didn’t feel like he was a doll--getting satisfied and fucked hard, yes, but like. also sort of just being used. and not in the fun sexy pre-planned way, but like, in a way that just made him feel more distant and disconnected.

but alec very much doesn’t do that. he keeps talking (and there is a lot of praise! so much praise and gentle affection and teliing him how beautiful he is and how good he’s doing--and of course dirty talk wink wink) and even narrating what he’s doing/his intentions, you know, and not only his voice generally soothing but it’s just nice you know

and like again i would just like to go back to alec ravishing magnus’s tiddies with kisses and holding them in his Big Hands and massaging them and like kissing his nipples and just making him feel so good??? iconic. we stan.

and alec like. is the perfect mix of gentle and rough, you know? he knows when to pin magnus down and fuck him nice and hard and rough and get him squealing and begging, but he also knows when to be gentle--particularly at the beginning and when he’s coming down. not to mention even when he is fucking magnus hard there’s a lot of gentle touch accompanying it

also not to just be a slut but

Also It Feels Good Because Alec Has a Huge Cock

that’s not to say meliorn doesn’t or even that you need a big dick to pleasure someone well but like.

alec has a big cock.

and it feels. hhhhh. good

magnus when alec first slides into him in heat: [straight up just immediately goes incoherent and whining with pleasure and kinda just mewling and clawing weakly at his back or the sheets on either side of him]

and alec fucks him so well :) like they’re honestly both feeling so fucking good like just AAAAAAAAA im such a slut for alec taking care of magnus in heat

also. uhh. K N O T T I N G

alec sliding into him nice and slow to make sure hes ok and like hes loving it, alec fucks him, and when he’s about to knot him magnus is somewhere in the back of his mind expecting that usual queasy sort of anticipation like he does Want It but usually he does kind of feel a little discomfort and again just... apprehension. this is The Moment, and he’s really giving up control you know

but it. doesnt come (but magnus is about to AHAHA)

and he just wants.

like he honestly just really really wants this and it’s kind of a revelation how much he genuinely wants this

alec knots him and magnus is Losing His Mind it feels so fucking good he comes almost right away and he’s just right there again

hes so Full and everything about it feels amazing

and like after alec has like. made him come a dozen times squirting and came inside magnus’s cunt and kept him knotted full there’s just this moment where magnus is exhausted in the best way, lying on his back, legs spread, alec still knotted inside him, his cunt is full of cum and he’s panting and moaning a little and alec is just on top of him and it’s warm and amazing and he’s coming down from the high and he just feels.... incredibly relaxed actually

like he’s like wow have i ever been this melty and relaxed and floaty, like, ever?

the answer is no, not really.

alec is just gently stroking his hair, pressing soft close-mouthed kisses to his skin, and they just sort of cuddle for a bit while waiting for magnus to come down completely from his heat and for alec’s knot to go down and honestly just lying there entwined is really, really nice.

magnus is full and relaxed and he genuinely loves this feeling in a way he’s never experienced before

even when alec pulls out and magnus is pretty much back to himself completely again magnus is so exhausted he just sort of lies back and lets himself breathe and alec is like Pamper Mode Activate(TM) and magnus tries to be like its ok to relax i do like cuddling with you and i can clean up myself its ok and alecs like But I Want To Take Care Of You and like helps clean him up (just... magnus lets himself relax as alec gently uses a damp cloth to wipe away cum and slick you know? idk there’s just something intimate and sweet about the dom helping clean their sub up in the aftercare) and gets him water and a snack and then once they’re both tidied up pulls him into his arms and he strokes his hair and they just cuddle and it’s great :)

i wonder if magnus talks to meliorn about this either. hm

and from then on, alec is the one he goes to for heats. and alec, of course, becomes immortal, which means he can take care of magnus for the rest of their lives :’))

whether magnus would stay on suppressants is another matter because on one hand heats can be inconvenient and like he might still want to minimize them, but on the other hand Hnnnnnnggg Alec Feel Good. so i could see them going either way here.

also i mean................that’s not to say that meliorn would Never help magnus either..... two possibilities here: 1. for whatever reason magnus’s heat is coming and alec can’t be there. meliorn is happy to help. it’s good to have back up i guess lkjfgh fuck idk. but the real fun one....

2. as magnus has more heats, they may or may not have a little Fun with it. perhaps roleplay (whether this be like “oh..... oh no..... im a poor little maid and i’ve gone into heat.....Looks Like My Boss Will Have To Fuck Me” or like even pretending the heat isn’t part of it and he’s Just That Slutty and we love to see it, etc. obviously they alec is sure not to push it too far, he teases magnus but probably a lot less than he normally would bc he’s so sensitive and needy and eager-to-please, but like.... they sure do have some fucking fun with this.

and also. i mean.

threesomes. y’all knew i was going here.

look idk how i got so far on the magnus/meliorn (as close friends and fuckbuddies not romantically) train but HERE WE ARE.

magnus getting absolutely wrecked by two alphas and LOVING it is not something he ever thought would happen, particularly while he was in heat, but it’s happening and he absolutely loves it.

also there are other fun possible scenarios like in “goldenrod” where alec doesn’t know that magnus is an omega and Shenanigans Ensue or whatever like just....both fluffy and angsty possibilities.

i’m a total slut for friends to lovers “oh no magnus is in heat :( but alec can help him through it, gently and lovingly, just completely as a friend :)” which can get into dubcon territory but if you fuck with it it’s doable. and i’m just a slut for pining pre-relationship heat sex.

even like in an au, alec playing the role meliorn did in the previous bullet points but blended with how i discussed their first heat together so like... helping his best friend through his heats, showing him a really good time, making sure he’s comfortable and magnus is just like wow i’ve never felt this good and safe during a heat before :) guess it’s because we’re friends and definitely no other reasons :)

i’m not sure how to word this right but i feel like there’s a potential angst here of like a mundane au of some sort wherein magnus has only had a few relationships with alphas and none of them great so when alec is helping him through his heat he assumes it’s different (as in, alec is so gentle and caring and treating him like this, and he feels safe) because they’re friends and it’s a different dynamic, and that being treated Badly is just like, the normal way alphas treat their mates. or something. look. let me have my whump ok

but the point is alec sets him straight obviously

but like anyway i just like.........i adore friends to lovers malec and heat sex it’s got so much fluffy potential with magnus just feeling Utterly Safe (and pining angst) and alec is both a) incredibly turned on/helplessly in love with him so he’s loving every second (even tho Pining Angst) and b) just in awe that magnus trusts him that much??? (also sad he’s SURPRISED at being treated gently flgkhfjghgh)

malec and ruts

ok as i explored in “stuck in a rut” i think it makes sense that magnus would not feel incredibly secure during ruts. it’s not something he would have sought out with say, meliorn, although he would have been willing to do that meliorn has other partners more than willing to help him with that and actually love it while magnus is. very wary of it.

like a heat, it leaves him feeling very out of control and it seems kind of scary--but it’s almost worst, because rather than feeling needy and helpless (which is a good thing when with a trusted partner but not so much when he’s less sure, or when they take advantage of that) it’s like. he’s cornered totally sober with a similarly out of control alpha, except with more Dominance(TM) and potential aggression you know?

so maybe he’s had some very bad experiences before. and i doubt it’s been literally all terrible, but i think he would likely avoid relationships with alphas, so he wouldn’t have a lot of experiences to draw from overall anyway

but like okay let’s get to the fun stuff

i’ve been over the angst of magnus not being sure how this is gonna go but wanting to Tough It Out with “stuck in a rut” although it’s probably a bit exaggerated for fun angst purposes but idk aaaaa

but anyway the point is here. alec gets his first rut with magnus and like, he probably hasn’t been with anyone during a rut (suppressants?) so this is wild for both of them

but even Feral(TM) alec’s entire goal is just taking care of magnus

i mean obviously there’s an element of like wanting to get his own satisfaction and all but it’s just like..... mutual pleasure you know??? like he wants to fuck magnus nice and hard and make him feel good and magnus is just a mewling mess in his arms letting alec take control and ravish him and they are both having a great time actually

but like ok let’s just. move away for a moment from angst

just................... alec fucking magnus nice and hard and rough, pinning him down and “”making“” him take it, and there isn’t really much teasing because he’s too busy wanting to fuck magnus and fill him up :) 

but like it’s also fluffy bc even all needy and desperate alec still takes the time to make sure he’s ready and prepared and wet and into this before fucking him, makes sure he’s comfortable and checks in on him and if magnus safeworded or told him to stop you know he absolutely would, without hesitation, even if it literally hurt to do. which is basic decency obviously but the like.... the just trust and care there? the fact that even in a literal fucking rut when he’s supposed to be out of control he’d force himself to stop if magnus needed or wanted him to is just.... comforting and good and i love it 

and magnus is like hm i have never felt this safe when with an alpha in rut before! time to examine this trauma later.

nesting (ft. scenting)

AAAAAAAAAAAA

i love the concept of nesting so much it’s so fluffy and sweet and dkgjfklgjg 

you build a pillow/blanket/clothing nest that smells like the people u love and u feel safe in 

and then you get ravished in it sometimes

iconic.

like magnus just piling a fuck ton of soft things (ranging from blankets/pillows to just like spare sheets and shit like that) and stealing alec’s clothes to put in there and curling up in the middle of it feeling safe and in heaven tbh 

especially once they key component of the nest arrives: alec

*magnus yoinking alec into the nest and immediately curling up against him like a particularly insistent cat* 

alec is just like This Is Precious and wraps his arms around him and strokes his hair and magnus is purring (purring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we Will discuss this later) 

and it’s just nice and somft??

fluffy cuddles?

i feel like nesting would be a particular urge either during or near heats so im just imagining pre heat magnus being like *suddenly stands up* I Must Gather Soft Things (Meaning Pillows, Blankets, And Alec) 

and he just makes a nest, all aesthetically pleasing and arranged nicely, maybe a candle nearby with a nice scent that kind of helps, and just..... curling up in alecs arms all content

and alec ADORES this like the first several times magnus was scared of coming off as clingy so he suppressed nesting instincts let alone cuddly needy clingy instincts but alec was sort of like hey baby it’s ok if you just don’t want to but do u need to nest? 

and also he just made a point of being more touchy/affectionate when his heat was coming up/dying down and he watched carefully to make sure it didn’t magnus uncomfortable but he melted into it even more than usual

so like just....alec cuddling the fuck out of magnus in his nest and it’s warm and safe and smells like home????

scenting i feel is kind of weird and i feel weird being like “mm he smells good” or whatever but like also it can be so cute when done right you know lkgjdgfg like omg just...... Alec Smells Like Home

their scents kinda mix and both of them have the others’ lingering on them and people can tell they’re super close 

and just.....................again..........alec like scenting him, marking him as his in a sort of gentle soft way? and like, burying his nose in his neck and nuzzling him and he smells so nice and good??? 

especially if you’re going with true mates think their mates’ scent is just the best thing ever flgjlkjlfkgjfgh

but anyway ok

back to nesting

and specifically, because i am a whore, to S E X

magnus feeling absolutely safe there and it smells like home and alec’s holding him and it’s so--

hey so i know i said i was going to do sex,

but hold on a sec

ANGST

magnus has nested before. but generally not with romantic partners. 

not sure if familal nesting is a thing--i feel like it’s possible, but given a general association with heat (i mean one could either feel the urge to or simply enjoy nesting outside of Heat Time(TM) but like) it feels a little weird

so let’s go with it’s more romantic except for maybe like really young kids or something idk 

but anyway moving on from that

magnus has nested before

but almost always alone

and an empty nest is just not the same?? it’s still warm/safe but like... it feels empty and sad too. especially if he DOES have a romantic partner they just don’t want to nest with him--saying he’s clingy, or it’s time consuming/boring to just sit there, or whatever else. 

camille was particularly guilty of this, he had to basically hide his nest and cram it in a closet or something (the enclosed space was actually kind of nice but it was too cramped for his liking and it felt even more empty and sad than usual)

and then he would just be there alone in his small empty nest and it was still reassuring but it was just......not the same 

also he didn’t have anything to ground him so he got all fidgety (adhd magnus? adhd magnus.) and like it was a lot less comforting than normal you know 

but with alec OH BOY

not only does he feel all warm and grounded in alec’s arms like he can relax and doze off and feel good and alec is stroking his hair and it’s just. nice

but like also 

BACK TO SEX

alec making sweet love to magnus in their nest and it’s just like wow this is the most safe place possible

it’s not even heat sex they’re just having fun and magnus is like this is my dream come true

and then obviously there is also heat sex

it is the most mindblowing thing either of them have ever experienced

also i feel like while it’s not an instinct thing to build nests for ruts, they still do it because they’re soft and it helps them relax anyway

PURRING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PURRING

ok i absolutely love the a/b/o headcanon i’ve seen before where like, omegas purr only when feeling completely safe? particularly around alphas?

so like. 

magnus doesn’t purr that often.

or he didn’t but then he fell in love with alec “his arms feel like home and safety and love” lightwood

it is not uncommon to see him cuddled in alec’s arms purring contently

or like in his nest leaning into alec’s side or head resting on his chest, PURRING

also i have this fic somewhere but au wherein alec doesn’t know magnus is an omega yet and then finds out because magnus dozed off on his chest and BEGAN. PURRING. BECAUSE HE FEELS SO FUCKING SAFE AND TRUSTS ALEC SO MUCH. 

even if he hadn’t told alec about being an omega yet for whatever reason

anyway just alec stroking magnus’s hair while he purrs away and its adorable and also soothing for both of them so they fall asleep like that 

magnus’s purring is like a soothing thing for alec big time its good sensory time and also just generally nice so its easy for him to conk out with magnus warm in his arms and purring loudly 

it’s very nice 

and also he loves that magnus feels that safe with him

MATES

this one will be short but like 

basically the whole mates for life thing is cute

and it can just kinda be like soulmate aus

which are all vaguely problematic but just really cute/fun to have and not think about too hard 

so them being mates is just cute idk man i like it 

ok that’s it for now (i’m gonna add more in a separate reblog for reasons but that’s only on one topic, you’ll see--i think i’ll do that tomorrow bc im very tired rn) that’s the omega magnus manifesto (some parts not included) 

#trans magnus smut #omega magnus #long post #malec #alec lightwood #magnus bane #shadowhunters

[purrincess-chat]

You're absolutely right lol why is it that the main female is always expected to grow and take responsibility for her emotions, even when she’s not at all in the wrong but when the guy is acting up it's cuz of his "man pain" and any bad behavior isn’t his fault and he’s immediately emphasized with. Because, oh, all of his wrong doings are the reflection of the world’s, not him. This “girls are flawed for having emotions and boys are not” trope is annoying and not at all a good message for girls

So, I’ve put off commenting on all of this for a few days because I wanted to see what other things came out of it and take time to stew over my opinions and give Thomas a chance to potentially explain himself further. Gonna include a bulk of this under the cut because I don’t know how long it will be. It’s just gonna be a mixture of me rambling about my thoughts and being a little salty. Not too much I don’t think, I dunno we’ll see when we get there. (spoiler I get kind of salty… and by kind of I mean a lot)

For anyone who doesn’t know what this refers to, a few days ago someone asked Thomas on Twitter what he considered to be Adrien and Marinette’s biggest flaws to which he replied that Marinette has “poor control of her emotions” and that “Adrien is perfect. But his flaw comes from the fact he’s not accustomed to the “ outside” world. His innocence makes him vulnerable. To sum it up: he’ s not flawed. The world is.”

This did not sit very well with fans who are already not too pleased with Thomas and his treatment of certain characters, for good reason. It does come off as misogynistic, and even if he is just trolling and not being serious, why does he want to troll in such a way that he comes off as misogynistic when he’s supposed to be writing a cartoon that empowers girls? Salt under the cut: (seriously, the Dead Sea ain’t got nothing on this salt)

For me, this didn’t surprise me too much because Thomas has always spouted shit and come off as extremely rude and belittling to fans even if they aren’t doing anything wrong or being aggressive, i.e. this fan who just asked him for his opinions, not even asking for spoilers, and who genuinely wanted to chat with him about his show. I could write novels about how un-progressive this show is and all of the unconscious misogyny that’s in it, which Thomas will deny wholeheartedly, and actually did in this same thread. I don’t know whether or not he genuinely doesn’t realize that his episodes are riddled with internalized misogyny or if he just doesn’t care? Because many times throughout both s1 and s2, male characters acting problematically have been glazed over, and not just in Adrien’s case, whereas females, typically Marinette, get a much harsher treatment when shown in similar circumstances. Females (Marinette) are often made out to apologize for other characters wrongs and their actions are blown way out of proportion when they do even the tiniest thing wrong.

Take Glaciator, for example: Ladybug tells Chat straight up that she probably won’t make it because she already has other plans. Chat still gets his hopes up and believes she will come which that in and of itself isn’t necessarily wrong, but when she doesn’t show up, which he knew she might and was even reminded by Plagg that she didn’t say yes, gets angry and throws a temper tantrum at her for not showing up when she told him from the beginning that she probably wouldn’t. And then SHE has to apologize to him sincerely and practically plead with him for forgiveness and in turn all she gets is a *shrug* Sorry. Maybe next time. What is the message you are hoping to convey with this, Thomas? “Women should be more decisive when giving men answers?” We aren’t fucking psychics. She didn’t know how her evening was going to play out and if she’d have time to show up. “She didn’t say no.” Yeah, but not saying no isn’t automatically a yes. That’s how most men get convicted of rape. Didn’t say no =/= yes. “I really wanted you to show up and when you didn’t that hurt my man feelings because you didn’t say no, so I got my little hopes up.” Cry me a river. Really couldn’t care less. Like real talk, if a man ever pulled that shit on me I’d block his ass to hell. If I explicitly state that I probably won’t make it, and then some asshole gets upset when I definitely do not just because I didn’t say no? Bitch, bye??? You are not entitled to my time, and if that’s the attitude you’re going to have then you are not worth my time. But ohhh Chat is such a sad, pouty cinnamon roll whose daddy doesn’t love him enough to eat dinner with him, boo-hoo.

Not to mention at the end when Ladybug tells him they can’t be together for very legit reasons like, um, the safety of everyone they care about, Adrien is just like *sigh* I’ll just keep hoping. Like bitch she rejected you. Move on. That exact mindset of “if I keep trying maybe she’ll eventually love me back” is exactly why women feel unsafe to walk the streets at night because men feel like if they keep pestering women that eventually they’ll see the error of their ways. Which just no. That’s obsessive as fuck and men often get really violent with women when they eventually don’t like them back. (not saying that Adrien would, he’d probably just throw another hissy fit and take off his ring) But this show is aimed at children, and that’s not a good message to teach boys who are not Adrien and won’t necessarily react the way Adrien did. If a girl rejects you, move the fuck on. She doesn’t owe you shit just because you like her, and your continued advances will likely only make her uncomfortable and less inclined to like you back. Reminds me of a post I’ve seen where someone’s teenage nephew talks about how a girl rejected him, and when the aunt asks him what he’s gonna do he says “keep trying” and she’s like bitch, no. Leave her alone, and it blows his fucking mind. Men are constantly reinforced on this “keep trying until she says yes” mindset, and it’s honestly why violence against women is so prevalent. Because manbabies never get told that women don’t owe them affection or sex or whatever the fuck they want. And you know when a good time to teach them how to respect a woman’s boundaries is? When they’re children.

“But I was talking about Adrien, not Chat Noir.” Yes. Thomas actually legit separates the two in this instance. I’m not making it up. Mr. Ship Wars are stupid because Adrien and Chat are the same person has separated the two as not the same person. It doesn’t matter if they’re “treated differently”. Chat’s flaws are Adrien’s flaws and vice versa. They’re both petty and jealous. (And, no, Adrien defense squad, I don’t hate him as a character or even think he’s a bad person. Recognizing character flaws isn’t the same as hating. Unclench) 

This isn’t a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde situation where the two halves function separately and have no recollection afterward. Taking off the mask doesn’t suddenly make all of those flaws disappear. It also doesn’t make sense based on his earlier reasoning that “Adrien doesn’t know how the world works” does that mean Chat fucking does? Shouldn’t Chat be excused from his wrongdoings by that logic because he also doesn’t know how the world works and is just as naive as Adrien? You can’t say one identity is perfect while the other is flawed. People don’t work that way. Characterization doesn’t work that way. A character is still inherently the same character regardless of whether or not they’re secretly a superhero. Superman is still Superman regardless of whether or not he’s got his fucking glasses on. Hell, a whole plot point in Antibug was that Marinette is a hero with or without her mask. Don’t pull this bullshit, Thomas. It’s not believable, and you haven’t supported it in canon. In fact, you’ve unsupported it in canon.

“Ladybug and Chat Noir are supposed to represent yin/yang.” Okay, yes, that’s a motif we’ve picked up on like since episode 1. Cool, but still doesn’t make up for shitty characterization. “I have a personal theory” okay, cool motive, but still shittily executed. Your personality doesn’t magically fucking change just because you’re in a new situation. Who you are as a person is constant. Your reaction might change as a result of the circumstances you find yourself in, but who you are does not just change because you put on a mask. Someone who knows fuck all about the world doesn’t suddenly learn how to function just because he gets superpowers. “People are constantly fluctuating” please, do the world a favor, and take a class in personality. That’s not even an insult. Like there are literally classes out there that teach about how personality works. I’ve taken them, so I know they exist. 

I’ve also mentioned before that I’m not a fan of Thomas’s whole “puzzle-piece” plot line because it doesn’t fucking make sense. Like I could be okay with it, if it made sense, but it doesn’t fucking make sense. It’s like he dumped 6 puzzles together and told the audience “here, figure it out” and like that’s exhausting. If I wanted to build a puzzle, I’d go build one (assuming my cat doesn’t absolutely destroy it). And if I as an adult have problems keeping up with your plot and character development (which is only present if you squint) what makes you think a child can keep up with it? My niece who just turned 9 calls your shit out for not adding up. Don’t say kids don’t notice or care. Cause if you give them good media to consume, they notice when something is bad. Seek to raise kid’s standards of what a good show looks like. Don’t use them as a crutch to be lazy. 

“Plot driven kids shows don’t do well.” Um, bitch wanna give some examples? Cause I can give some examples of many beloved childhood shows of mine that have a cohesive plot. ATLA, for example. Everyone fucking loves it. MLP is another one I enjoy which does still have “lesson of the day” set-up but at least those lessons come into play later?? Like I think it was s4 or s5 where they all got some friendship object that ended up being a key later in the finale. So all of those episodes then had a purpose outside of the token friendship lesson of the day. Didn’t particularly matter what order you saw those episodes in for the most part, but you could see a progression of the characters and plot the whole time. You knew things were important to the overall plot of the season, and the development of those characters actually sticks around for more than just that episode. Kids can handle shit. Look at the latest Incredibles movie. I never once had trouble keeping up as a kid when watching plot driven shows. Not once. Saying it’s a kids show is a cop out. It’s an excuse, and a bad one at that. And that’s not even to say that the other things I listed are perfect either. They have their problems, but they dull in comparison.

Thomas also tried to boast some shit about how they show guys and girls being akumatized and emotional equally, and I’m like we’re not talking about background people, Tommy. We’re talking about your leads and how unbalanced they are and how you hold one to a higher condemnation than the other. Because one has daddy issues and conveniently happens to coincidentally be a boy. But he gets a free pass because he’s sheltered. Yes, and who made him so sheltered, Tommy? Who made that executive decision? Who decided to give him all of these excuses for his behavior? Who in turn decided to make everything the girl does her fault even if she’s right? Who also calls himself “Hawkmoth,” (and has always used the nickname Hawkdaddy) a villain established to be a neglectful, emotionally abusive, and controlling father bent on something that isn’t entirely clear and willing to allow his son to be in danger multiple times to achieve that something, meanwhile two teenage girls are the worst things you could think of because they’re bratty and they lie, and anyone who sympathizes with them are just fooled by their good looks? Cool. #female empowerment, am I right? 

Honestly, I could dissect every single thing Thomas said throughout this discourse but truthfully it’s tiring, annoying, and frankly he contradicts himself way too much I could just write a book if I actually cared enough about him. At this point things that he says doesn’t really surprise me anymore because I’ve just accepted that he’s got loads of internalized misogyny, borderline narcissism, and just overall isn’t worth anyone’s time. Bitching at him is never going to change his mind because he doesn’t believe he’s done anything wrong. It’s why I say that Adrien is his self-insert OC. He’s a perfect little golden boy who never does anything wrong, and if he does, it’s the world’s fault, not his. Sounds a lot like how Thomas approaches anyone who tells him what they understood from his writing because it’s fucking there whether he realizes it or not. 

(Tl;dr I guess) My advice to anyone who read this far is this: Ignore the fuck out of Thomas because he’s always gonna be a piece of shit who doesn’t care if you think he’s a piece of shit and actually seems to enjoy people thinking he’s a piece of shit. Lower your expectations for the writing of this show tremendously, basically only subscribe to it for cute interactions every once in a while, and you’ll enjoy it. If you are here for detailed plot or good character development, might I suggest rewatching ATLA? Basically, expect nothing from this show, and you’ll never be disappointed. It’s what I’ve started doing because this ^^^^ is what happens when you pick it apart. And there’s a lot that I left out for time’s sake and because I don’t want to look at this man’s Twitter anymore. I have a migraine.  

#salt #like a lot of salt #cat replies

[pregantheimlich]

Feedback to Fandom Followings Thoughts on Turf Wars

Article here: https://www.thefandomentals.com/legend-korra-turf-wars-grounding/

@lokgifsandmusings

Check out Fandom Following, their Game of Thrones reviews are life. On this article, I happened to disagree, so here is my play by play.

I’ll start by outlining my thoughts on Turf Wars: meh. The scope of the story seems like it has shrunken, and I cant imagine that any really significant character development or changes to the cannon will be introduced. The gay stuff is kind ill fitting, sure, but I am quite tickled and gratified to watch characters I’ve known for years interact with this material, and I finally feel like gayness exists in the Avatar verse. I mean, hearing that Aang canonically had an opinion on gayness.. Aang who I grew up with, whom I was almost of an age with once, has canonically acknowledged that gay people exist and is cool about it. Its’ weird-  in a good way, though honestly I feel like i’m reading fanfic.. Overall I’m underwhelmed with turf wars, just because I don’t think the story will be that ambitious or significant, honestly. Kyas gay history 101 was face palming fanficcy, anachronistic and misshapen... Now onto the article.

Something about the argument falls very flat to me. The central point is how sexism in the Avatar-verse isn't so bad, and thus homophobia cannot exist.... Almost like they are two different issues? I understand and agree with the fact that one of the roots of homophobia is heterosexism, but there is more to it than that.

''Our point is, women are just like…there in this universe. They’re not even treated any differently, barring the few exceptions we described above.''

Like, no... Strong women exist, yes. .. That doesn’t mean the universe isn't significantly sexist. The show has chosen to focus on these women, but that doesn’t mean all women have the same life experience... Look at our world, there have always been strong successful women, who rise to the top and make history...By that logic, the real world isn't significantly sexist and therefore institutionalized homophobia simply cant exist, why? Becuase there are strong women.. (???)

'''Any character who said something sexist got immediate, negative feedback, or was ignored, because that’s super weird of them. '''

Or its because they where talking to the protagonists, who are good people, and therefore don’t go along with sexist comments.

''What structural sexism could exist with this history? ((referring to how badass Kyoshi was))''

So your point is, that Kyoshi was an incredibly high status, messianic figure, and so that would make everyone respect all women everywhere? Like... Look at real life.There have been many prophetesses and women who start cults because people think they can perform miracles and the like, and women who rise high in religious establishments, and female saints... Has exposure to what are ostensibly powerful magical women been shown to change societal attitudes toward all women? Joan of Arc was a very forceful character, and she and her followers believed she could speak to God directly... Did this give the patriarchs of the day epiphanies about the intrinsic value of women?

'''But…there’s no societal dominance that men have over women in this world to be upheld, at least not on a broader scale. If there was, we couldn’t have had characters like Toph or Kuvira get the general reception that they did: full acceptance and respect.'''

????? No societal dominance??? How about arranged marriages? We know the monarchies of the Fire and Water nations did it, so I assume their nobility and the small folk follow suit, to a greater or lesser extent. And again, on the Toph and Kuvira point.. Exceptions don’t disprove the rule. High status women and gays don’t negate the power structures in society. 

'''Please, tell us how the concern over Korra not being accepted fits with the world we just described. Who would challenge her? Who would be stupid enough? And how would the potential for that feedback be great enough that she actually needs to navigate cautiously? What are she and Asami in danger of, exactly? Also if this had been such an issue, wouldn’t Asami have exhibited slightly less than the extreme thirst for Korra that we witnessed in Book 3?'''

Surely you understand that their fears (and the fears of real young queer people) are more complex than simply 'I’m afraid I will be literally murdered immediately'... It can be about worrying that people wont love you as much, or wont be able to look at you the same way, even if they don’t outright reject you. It can be feeling that you have let people down, by not having the romantic destiny they had hoped you would have. It can feel humiliating as if the knowledge of it will give people a a glimpse into what you like sexually. There can be issues about which partner is perceived to be the 'top' and which is the 'bottom' and the status differentiation that can be seen to entail. And remember, Korra had no inhibitions about telling people, it was Asami who was reticent. I've never been much of an Asami fangirl, but her anxiety over this rather endeared her to me. It makes sense: she was raised by a man who had very extreme prejudices against a minority group, and Asami seems to maintained free thought about that issue her whole upbringing, but knew to be secret about it. Secrecy and fear of discover over that probably became her modus operandi and recurred over the awakening of her feelings for Korra. Hiroshi was a public figure and must have imparted a sensitivity to reputation and public appearances to Asami. Asami was also bereft of her mother, which may have lead to complications about how she feels about and interacts with women. I think its very understandable that she is not 100% gung-ho about coming out. Also, I don’t understand how anyone can say their flirting was obvious... Grl, I remember how utterly scandalized 90% of the audience was with Korrasami.

'''That is why, in a general sense, homophobia cannot exist on an institutionalized level in this universe, and certainly not to a degree where the spiritual leader would feel unsafe being openly bisexual.'''

?????????? 'Unsafe'??? There are more dimensions to this than physical safety. Spiritual leaders don’t get a free pass form wider society  to do whatever they want without reproach. If you do believe that homophobia comes (almost) entirely form sexism, and you have acknowledged that there is at least some level of sexism in the universe then by your own reasoning there is room for some atmosphere of homophobia, or at least an atmosphere that is not super enlightened or welcoming to The Gays.

''Yet homophobia was introduced in this comic—more or less immediately after Korra and Asami returned to the “real world.” (As an aside, we’re really not fond of *that* particular messaging.)'''

This is a personal comment rather than the Well Reasoned Feedback of the rest of this response post but... That rings quite true in my experience.. When you are with someone, especially when things are new and uncertain, it is like entering another world, where the rules are different. When you come from a world where same sex attraction is absent or is seen as distasteful or just plain bad, and then you meet someone whom you fall in love with.. It can give rise to feelings of disassociation and other-worldliness. And then when the vacation is over, suddenly you are back in the real world, and suddenly the worries about what people will think come at you like a wall.

'''(Talking about Kyas gay history lesson) To put it bluntly, we find all of this incomprehensible given what we know from ATLA and LoK. Literally everything is backwards.'''

Yeah I agree on this one.

''The description of the Water Tribes is more confusing. We wonder if Mike remembered that the Water Tribe was you know…a tribe. Family units are almost always deemphasized in such society, and we know they were in the Southern Water Tribe during ATLA’s run, because we saw it. It was one village with everyone having a collective responsibility to one another.'''

Umm, 'family units de-emphasised''' like no, Marriage was central to the culture... The thing that established family units.

''Let’s start with the Fire Nation. We already explained that it was quite canonically egalitarian. '''

I think this is wishful thinking.... We're never explicitly told that male primogeniture is in effect but.. Look at this family tree...

 See any female Fire Lords (before Izumi)? Nope, all male. Did the firstborn happen to be male for 4 straight generations? Or is something else being implied? See how the women are not prominent, and most aren’t even warranted physical appearances. 

''Azula was treated incredibly seriously and respectfully by everyone she interacted with, be it the governor of New Ozai, or her ship’s captain. '''

Dude... She is literally the princess. The heir apparent to the throne....  And her being privileged and respected is ... evidence of egalitarianism???

''there was simply no indication that a ‘Fire Lord Azula’ would have been met with a single eye blink.''

Female heirs inherit the throne... This is kind of standard procedure for dynasties with no male heir... Not so rare in history.. And remember, Ozai did invent an even higher seat for himself: the Phoenix King' so Azula is still subservient.

''But any systemic sexism was gone by Ozai’s time given what we saw in ATLA, so… Was Ozai a wonderful feminist reformer for the Fire Nation’s military?''

 Sozin outlawed same-sex relationships, which apparently also implies he was sexist and against women in the military? These issues are linked, sure, but they aren’t the same issue.

''Are gay couples somehow targeted without women’s rights being an issue at all? We certainly can’t think of many examples in our world where this was the case.'''

???? Hmm, can we think of societies where the cause of women’s rights are more advanced than gay rights ??? Let me think about thisss... Hmmmmmmmmmmm. How about the entire western world, who have all but secured equal rights under the law for women, but have only just begun to examine how laws affect LGBT+ people... Of course, sexism isn't solved completely, even in the legal arena, but they are literally a hundred years  ahead of gay rights.  

''' He was trying to wage war on the biggest kingdom; he was seriously going to begin oppressing his own citizens, all of whom would probably take issue with his out-of-the-blue hyperfocus on gay couples? What, had he been scapegoating them for years, laying the groundwork? '''

Rulers with supremacist and imperialist ambitions begin by  fracturing, scapegoating and oppressing groups within their own country.. Yep, again this is quite true to life.. I don’t understand why this seems unrealistic to you, especially since you have noted the gestapo imagery... (Which I do agree is anachronistic and out of nowhere)).

''More to the point, if this shit was happening, there would be rioting! Civil Wars! ''

The gay 'community' has never existed as a unified mass ever in history before now. Homosexuality was a practice not an identity. People didn't think of themselves as gay, and didn't unite or think about their legal rights the way we do today... Even in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, where tiny tiny groups where coalescing, there was never any alliances big enough or confident enough to form militias or rally the general population.

'''we refuse to believe that this wouldn’t have been an issue EVERY SINGLE AVATAR would have dealt with until it was fully rectified.'''

Just.. What?? Why should we assume that ANY avatar even significantly recognized homosexuality, and even if they did, why do we assume its on their priority list? This is so anachronistic.. We may as well wonder why any  Air Avatar didn't outlaw meat eating, or any lowborn avatar didn't invent marxism, or any female avatar would outlaw arranged marriages or male primogeniture. We seem to be assuming here that every avatar is a moral paragon and therefore is automatically a 2017 post-structuralist inter-sectional feminist, whose number 1 goal is to bring about liberal utopia, nad comes out of the box with enlightened understandings about homosexuality.

''we’re still left with the questions about feminist-reformer-Ozai, who went on to champion his own daughter (and a younger sibling to boot) as his successor, so…?'''

Well, Ozai himself was a younger sibling, remember, who thought he was more fit to rule because he was more psychopathic than his empathetic elder sibling, like Zuko and Azula.

''(Talking about Kyoshi) If there had somehow had been homophobia present on a large scale, we can’t imagine that Kyoshi, being queer herself, would have allowed this to continue. In fact, wouldn’t she have used the Dai Li to eradicate it, at least to the point where she could find acceptance?'''

It seems like although she practiced same sex relationships, she didn't add 'bisexual' to her identity. Quite probably the label didn't exist.. Like in real life, same sex relationships where seen as a sexual practice, not something you are or that you would publicly speak about, even if it wasn’t a super shameful secret. I dont think it implied that Kyoshi lived in shame.. She dosent seem the type to hung up on what people think of her at all. Kya just meant that people didn't acknowledge or understand that part of her. 

''but we have to imagine she’d be able to have influenced the laws and protections to at least have “found acceptance” and effect change. '''

I feel like your perspective is thoroughly couched in a modern day 'coming out' narrative and advocacy and reform culture... That said, it does seem that Mike wrote this from a perspective that is also jarringly modern, so maybe its appropriate to match him in that.

''There literally can’t be large-scale and widespread homophobia in a place with such an ineffectual centralized government. ''

Literally what. Like.. Think of any ineffectual centralized government in the entire world... Okay, now tell me, is the society it presides over homophobic? The answer is always yes no matter where you think of..

''The issue is that with a (mostly) closeted Kya, it means the Avatar-verse is actually worse than our own world. She’s like a celebrity (secluded acolytes with Air Nation blinders on excluded). She’s the daughter of one of the most famous people who ever lived, ever. ''

Why is this surprising? I don’t understand.. Like in the last 30 years in the west is the only time and place in history where public figures could come out and be like 'Yo guys I'm exclusively sexually and romantically attracted to people of the same sex as me, kthnxbye'. And even then, it has diminished careers and tarnished reputations...

''We’re expected to believe that Aang would have let his daughter feel unsafe to be herself? We’re expected to believe that Katara—KATARA—would have let such an injustice stand?'''

Well, Kya did say Aang was nothing but supportive.. But, even if your parents are great, you are still a tiny minority in a big wide world.. Shes almost 2 generations removed from Korra and Asami... It just feels very true to life and poignant for Kya to have gone through these issues. We know she was a drifter for much of her life, and has commitment issues. Indecision and internal conflict are very congruent with unease about sexual identity.

''On a Watsonian level, the implication of this portrayal (where Korra and Asami need to proceed with caution) is that this homophobia exists on an institutionalized level,''

You are continually looking for 'institutionalized' homophobia to explain why Korra and Asami have qualms about coming out. I would like to differentiate institutionalized homophobia from cultural homophobia. It doesn’t seem that explicitly anti-gay laws of governmental bodies are at play here, it seems more... interpersonal.. They are just fretting that people would treat them differently, or look at them differently, that’s all. And that’s quite understandable, considering it seems then neither of them knew they could be attracted to women before this relationship. It has changed how they see themselves.

''.....Toph or Azula or Mai or Lin or Suyin or Kuvira can’t really exist, at least not without getting a ton of gendered feedback all the time.''

#stop #the #conflation #of #sexism #and #homophobia. They are not separate but they are not the same. Any society at any time can provide examples of individual women being prominent while the gays are still invisible or thrown under the buses.

'''Boy oh boy do we love thinking about our faves letting their daughter live in abject terror, and the shit Kya herself must have gone through!''

It is sad to think about... But.. the critical examination of Aang as a parent is kind of a running theme already isn’t it? He was supportive to her, and at some point people do become adults and their issues are their own, and cant be laid at the feet of their parents anymore.

''Especially given that Turf Wars suggests a worse world than our own with regards to homophobic feedback. You know…for kids!''

Does it? Lets recap how things went: girl tells parents she is dating another girl. Mom: cool dude.

 Dad: cool man, be careful.

 Korra: fuck you dad. 

Korra: *tells lesbain aunt*. 

Kya: samesies. it used to be bad but no bigs. 

Korra: *to friends* guys im ghey as frick

 Friends: cool dude. 

 That’s really the best scenario anyone could hope for today, isn't it?

'''The Kya conversation didn’t land for us, not just because it broke from the canon of the franchise, or because it began with a 60-year-old woman Korra and Asami are not particularly close to offering an uninvited remark about how beautiful of a couple they are (are we alone in thinking that this would be weird??), but because the entire premise of the conversation is a little cringe-worthy in our opinion.

First of all, Kya lives in the Southern Water Tribe with her mother. Yeah, she’s not glued there, and we know she’s helping with relief efforts at the evacuee camp, but our point is that a conscious decision was made to warp her to the United Republic, simply because “who else could offer gay advice but another gay?”''

Yeah same. It does feel that this was written by a heterosexual who doesnt quite understand what its like, though to be fair so does this article (burn). 

'''we have to assume the rather affluent Hiroshi Sato got his daughter education that included these basic lessons.''

Idk, minorities being cut out of the history we teach to young people rings true to life tbh.

___

Sorry, didn’t mean to be overly critical. I think I’m biased toward liking Turf Wars because of my own personal experience rather than any actual merit it has. I look forward to reading Fandom Followings thoughts on part 2.

#korra #lok #turf wars #turfwars #korra comics #korra comic #lok comic #legend of korra #lok turf wars #fandom following #ff #lokgifsandmusings #griffin #kylie #reiew #criticism #critical #feedback #article #response #response post