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queen-scribbles · 5 years

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Steady as Stars: Tragen Meta

So time to ramble about Tragen because I am overly attached to this goober and have TOO MANY FEELINGS. Quick note, everything about his home planet is my own headcanon bc canon and Legends diverge pretty sharply so I just said “Screw allll of it” and am doing my own thing 😎 Also, i tried to keep some sense of order to it, but did not 100% succeed. Lots of parenthetical asides incoming.

Brief backstory, for anyone who’s not familiar with my wonderful paladin son, Tragen is from Stenos, which is in the Outer Rim, right on the edge of Imperial space. They remained neutral during the Great Galactic War, but did host several Imperial supply lines. These supply lines eventually wound up integral to Stenosi economy, which the Empire used to blackmail them into actually joining shortly before the Treaty of Coruscant was signed.

Tragen’s love of the stars goes back to his childhood, but up until about 10 years old, it was just typical child’s awe and wonder at how many there were all the different places you could go among them, that sort of thing. Around ten is when the Empire started really pressuring Stenos to join, making threats, etc. This wasn’t common knowledge, but since Tragen’s parents were both high ranked government officials/nobility(the two are somewhat linked on Stenos; there’s the king/queen, their inner circle, and then a moderately-sized parliament of sorts drawn from the nobility. I’m still hashing out all the details, but that’s the basics), he’d hear them talking behind closed doors or after they thought he and his sister were asleep. They were worried the Empire would actually attack or invade or something like that, based off the displeasure the Imperial diplomat was conveying.

With the planet/culture’s future uncertain, Tragen started really appreciating the stars’ constancy. They’re always there, always the same, even if you can’t see them or are looking from a different angle. They’ve been there for ages and will be for ages more, and he finds that comforting.

Even moreso after the Imperial diplomat discovers how important the supply lines are to the economy and blackmails Stenos into joining the Empire with that knowledge. There are assurances things won’t change, of course, or at least won’t change much, but they do. And that’s before the Sith start looking for Force Sensitives. It’s very disconcerting for an acquaintance to be there one day and not the next. There are so many rumors about what happens to the people who go with the Sith(willing or no), it’s impossible to figure out the truth. With all the uncertainty, and his parents working even longer hours trying to merge Imperial statutes with Stenosi culture, Tragen finds even more comfort in the stars. Everything else might be changing, but they don’t.

And then the Sith find him. It takes a little over two years from winning Stenos to the Empire for the Imperials to work their way bottom of society to top looking for potential Sith, but Tragen’s one of the first they find when they finally get to the nobility/officials. By this point, the Imperials have abandoned all pretense of this ‘honor’ being optional, and so off Tragen goes to Ziost at thirteen years old. (He doesn’t want to, but loyalty/honor/duty are so central to Stenosi culture his father uses those to talk him down from a full-on freakout and into at least accepting this new path for his life, even if he doesn’t love it)

Tragen is not particularly gifted with the Force. It’s there, he has a decent enough connection to... amplify other things(ala Force scream, etc), but his real saving grace talent is martial combat. He’s been trained with a blade since he could hold one, is extremely observant and good at reading body language, and has a good head for strategy/thinking on his feet. The Sith training is where he’s introduced to the idea of dual-wielding(he’s ambidextrous, which is why one instructor suggests it), which is the only enjoyable thing about it.

Right from the start, Tragen has to hide his true self, bury it beneath a mask of anger and hatred he doesn’t really feel. He knows if he lets it slip he’s dead. He’s watched it happen; decent people who couldn’t ‘get over’ their scruples fast enough fall in duels to fellow acolytes who did, or are cut down by trainers as an example. He skates the edge of discovery the entire seven years he’s there; beating opponents to unconsciousness(so he doesn’t get stabbed in the back) but never killing anyone if can be avoided, claiming it’s so they have to wallow in the humiliation of defeat and/or “I rather like them owing me their life”. Still, he gets lectured multiple times about this merciful “flaw” he has.

During this time, he clings to the stars; to knowing that even when they’re hidden they’re still there, still shining bright, still the same. Just like him, sometimes their true nature is obscured or the constellations aren’t where you expect. bc you’re looking at them from somewhere different. None of that changes them, just how/if people see them.

Tragen’s survival tactic of hiding behind a mask of expected emotions he doesn’t really feel gets tested to its limit once Tremel summons him to the Academy for his trials, especially after Baras takes an interest in him. He’s constantly trying to outfox one of the most paranoid and brilliant Darths around, and sweats bullets the first few times he’s near the man. Once it starts to seem like Baras isn’t suspicious of him, Tragen relaxes ever so slightly. Not enough to do anything stupid, just enough he’s not a mess of suspicious tension every time he’s in his master’s presence. (And let’s not get into how hard the whole ‘wish the Jedi found you instead of the Sith’ thing with Dorgis hit him bc I’ll get too emotional to function. So many feeling for this dork.)

It’s a little easier once he picks up Vette. He doesn’t entirely drop his guard or his mask around her, but she at least is okay when he does nice/reasonable things, instead of lecturing about how he’s a terrible Sith yada yada. The two of them strike up a friendship pretty fast(she reminds him of his sister, actually), and Vette is usually the one to tag along when Tragen leaves the ship, even after Quinn joins.

It’s a still-tricky balancing act to accomplish enough of Baras’ objectives he doesn’t get suspicious while not violating his own code, but somehow Tragen manages. He leaves everyone alive he can, trotting out the ‘yes, but now they owe me their lives, giving me power and humiliating them’ excuse when needed. The entirely of looking for Jaesa, he’s adamant and upfront that he just wants to talk to her, leaves everyone alive(even makes Master Yonlach question his view of Sith :3) and resolves things as peacefully as he can. Even when faced with Jedi who are raring to fight and operating with the bias Sith = evil(tbf, he’s a rare exception...), Tragen always tries to talk things out first. He’s found pointing out he’s acting more Jedi-like than them works really, really well. On the whole, his conscience is pretty happy with how the search for Jaesa is going, though it does make him uneasy when he hears Baras got his hands on her parents. There isn’t really anything he can do at that point, so he just has to hope for the best and keep going.

While he is happy with the increased freedom and decreased oversight of having his own ship and underlings to do his job, it’s still lonely. He can’t completely relax on the ship, and he’s so used to having his mask up, he can’t bring himself to drop it around people, even Vette. Quinn there’s the obvious reasons(the man’s born and bred Imperial AND owes Baras his career; there’s no way Tragen’s trusting him with this), but Vette it’s more... worrying she’d accidentally spill the beans. She’s such a chatterbox and very impulsive, so even though he thinks she’d try to keep his secret, he’d rather not take chances with something this dangerous. This means the only time Tragen can drop the facade and be himself is when he’s alone, in his cabin, with only the stars for company. This adds a layer to his love of them; alone with the stars is the only place he can be honest, and living this lie is so exhausting he treasures those moments more than he can say.

He’s very used to opponents(especially Jedi) jumping to conclusions about him based purely on him being Sith, so Nomen Karr’s reaction on Hutta is.. expected At least, the initial hostility is. Tragen tries and tries and tries to be reasonable and just talk to the man, but Karr doesn’t cooperate. That he starts calling on the dark side is a bit of a surprise(not a huge one, though; a lot of the Jedi Tragen’s met have been hypocrites, and he could sense Karr’s pride and anger from the start), but Tragen is a skilled enough swordsman(I guess swordsman still applies to lightsabers??) he handles it.

Then Jaesa shows up. Tragen sends Vette to check in with the soldiers outside, and for the first time in eight years, drops his facade. If Jaesa can sense a being’s true nature anyway, there’s no point fighting it, and he hopes a gesture of trust like this will convince her(I did a lot of flashpoints/side quests etc with him, so he’s Light II by this point, better than a lot of my SWs). Dropping his guard like this makes him feel exposed, vulnerable. Naked, almost. He’s been so hidden for so long behind that mask, it’s mildly terrifying to let go of it.

*ahem* (But trusting Jaesa feels right, and safe, and this was the best course of action, right?)

(Wrong. She’s confused this Sith reads as merciful and compassionate against Master Karr’s arrogance and rage, and attacks him anyway)

During their fight, Tragen can’t help but admire her form; he knows dualsabers are tricky to wield and she’s very good. Good enough that it’s a challenge to beat her without hurting her(too much). By this point, Vette’s brought the Imperial soldiers back in, so he has to hide how giddy he is when Jaesa agrees to join him and help change the Empire from within.

(Having her along is like surfacing for air after much too long underwater.)

It’s a little bit... cautious at first--they can’t speak freely enough on the ship to really connect. Tragen does encourage her to have confidence in herself; she’s grown since her days as a handmaiden, and understands all too well her struggles with pretending to be something she’s not. A lot of the advice he gives her is the same things he’s clung to for years(”Keep your eyes on the goal” and “masks worn for survival are different than those worn for personal gain”) Jaesa has a million questions and Tragen’s dying to talk to someone he can be himself around, but they don’t get a chance until Taris. Tragen marks a couple firsts for me there; minorly, he’s my first male toon who did the planet arc but didn’t flirt with Thana, and more importantly: first Sith Warrior to talk every. single. War Trust target into surrendering. He didn’t kill a single one. (which I didn’t know was possible until him; I thought at least one of them[Frelka] fighting was unavoidable, but he did it.) This is where Jaesa starts accompanying him pretty much everywhere(she’s his apprentice, why shouldn’t she?) and they start building up trust and friendship and she gets a real look at his character.

Tragen keeps his word to the Siantide miners, shows restraint, and is basically the least Sith-y Sith Jaesa’s ever seen, let alone met. This is what brings her curiosity out in Shining Bright. That conversation opens the floodgates and they talk freely as they work their way through Taris, a freedom both miss once they’re back on the Empire Dawn. But even if Pierce’s quarters weren’t right next to Jaesa’s, being more open is not a good idea. Too much risk.

It is, however, very difficult to keep their conversation quiet when Jaesa tells him about the other light-leaning Sith. Tragen’s ecstatic (and relieved) to know he’s not the only one(also, impressed by how much stronger + more skilled Jaesa’s gotten with her power). He’s very eager with his encouragement she keep looking, and so giddy when she actually finds them, they’re both equally to blame for Pierce almost catching them. (It’s very hard for a pair of excited 21 year olds to keep their voices down) He sends her to make contact with these light-leaning Sith and paces his cabin in antsy, impatient circles until she gets back.

Thanks to their Force bond, Tragen can tell even before Jaesa boards the Dawn that something’s wrong. When she tells him how badly her attempt went, the first words out of his mouth are reassuring her this wasn’t her fault. She tried, and no matter the outcome, that was the right thing to do. (He does hug her, even if it’s risky, just for a moment. She’s his friend and she’s hurting, he doesn’t care if it raises suspicions)

(side note: this is where the first seeds of Jaesa falling for him are planted, when her feelings matter more than her failure, even if she doesn’t realize it until years later)

Disappointed as they might be by this setback, there’s not much they can do about it(both somehow find solace in the stars, though neither mentions it), so they soldier on. Both improve in combat prowess, Jaesa’s strength with her power grows, they become uncannily good at working as a team. (this is part experience and part Force bond--Tragen might barely be decent at most Force stuff, but he and Jaesa bond STRONG)

It’s almost a relief when Baras tries to kill him. He can stop even pretending loyalty. Though he does find it deeply ironic the Emperor’s Hand reaches out to recruit as Wrath someone so diametrically opposed to Sith values. He shares Jaesa’s excitement for potential influence he can wield, being so high-ranked and even less subject to oversight bc who’s gonna be brave enough to question the Emperor’s Wrath? Between that and Lord Emmoridg reaching out to Jaesa, Tragen’s actually feeling good about their chances at reforming the Empire. It turns out a bit more complicated than he’s anticipating--while there’s less oversight, there’s also a stricter and more definite set of expectations placed on the Emperor’s Wrath than on a run of the mill Lord. Expectations that are harder to look like he’s fulfilling while actually subverting.

Belsavis, for example. Tragen has no problem or qualms about killing Ekkage. And he knows Jaesa’s not going to tell anyone how readily he partnered with a Jedi(who he not only let live, but parted on good terms with) to achieve his goals. But he didn’t kill Col. Trill for not helping him, and he lets Lord Melicost walk away, and he has no guarantee those actions won’t raise eyebrows. Sure he can argue he doesn’t want to weaken the Empire/Sith in their war with the Republic, but a) it doesn’t stop other Sith and b) he has a history of being less brutal than a Sith should. With being Wrath now, Tragen’s starting to really stress over the balance and his facade is straining him to the breaking point.

The stars remain a huge comfort to him. He spends a lot on his time on the ship just sitting in his cabin and staring out the viewport(he calls it meditating if anyone other than Jaesa asks). The stars are still there, still the same. The constellations and which ones he can see might be different depending on where in the galaxy he is, but even when he can’t see them, he knows they’re still there. Still magnificent and beautiful no matter what happens. That thought is one of the few things that keeps him going strong.

Another is his friends. Tragen is all too happy to help Vette find her family(it makes him miss his even more) and backs her up in her reluctance to seek revenge for her mother’s death. The two of them are pretty close, and Vette always manages to make him smile, so helping her is no trouble at all. There are times Tragen wonders if she suspects how truly un-Sithy he is, but he can never quite bring himself to admit it to her for sure. That mask is such habit, it stays on around everyone.

Except Jaesa. Even if their Force Bond and her power didn’t make hiding things an exercise in futility, they’re a team and Tragen a) trusts her and b) is eternally grateful to have someone he can be himself around. Completely himself. And he feels like no matter how daunting this goal of reforming the entire Empire is, with her as his partner it’s possible. Jaesa found the light-leaning Sith, Jaesa reached out to them. Despite the initial disaster, she’s the one Lord Emmoridg reaches out to and she’s the one who keeps in touch with him.

Tragen is feeling very good about about their goals and actually starting to hope he won’t have to hide forever when they learn about Cendence. Jaesa is so distraught when relaying her encounter with the tortured and dying apprentice, Tragen shuts and locks the door under the pretense of meditating so he can comfort her without being disturbed. Knowing there’s a Sith out there hunting down ‘their kind’ is more than a little troubling(terrifying is the word he would use), but Tragen’s too busy with the Hand’s assignments to do anything about it, so he entrusts this foe to Jaesa. He knows she can handle it. She a gifted Force-user, skilled saberist, and stronger than she realizes. He’s so proud of her when she goes face to face with Cendence and beats him bc he knew she could do it.

Regarding the Quincident--bc how do you meta a Sith Warrior without touching on the Quincident?--Tragen of course forgives him. Has to dress it in the usual ‘Your life is mine now’ rhetoric, but he’s secretly amused at the irony. Baras is the Proper Sith(TM) between the two of them, is more in line with Sith values and would technically be the right choice by that metric. Tragen’s just more powerful--even if it’s still more combat skill instead of the Force. (He’s better with the Force than he used to be, but still largely relies on lightsabers. He’s more comfortable with blades)

After defeating Baras(which is a relief) and being confirmed as Wrath by the Dark Council(which is stressful af), Tragen takes a long time wrestling with how to balance his goals and his new position. Yes, he has more influence, but people will also be more wary/skeptical that the EMPEROR’S WRATH is light-leaning and trying to change things,and he’s pretty sure the more times he’s merciful, the more questions will be raised. If he and Jaesa thought what Emmoridg is doing is dangerous, training LS Sith right under the Council’s nose, this is.... too perilous for words. He actually talks to the Emperor. Tragen interacts with Vitiate; pure, remorseless evil and incredibly powerful, who he’s actively working to undermine. It makes the next few years extremely harrowing, but at least things are never boring(and most of his orders--what few there are--come through the Hand, so he doesn’t talk to Vitiate MUCH). The only thing that keeps all his plans from crashing down and totally wasting the years of wearing his mask, is that the Wrath is allowed to maintain autonomy rather than being bound to Vitiate’s will via dark side rituals. That would have led to his discovery and torture/execution, Tragen is 100% sure. Even as things stand he has to be incredibly careful.

It helps him immensely that Jaesa’s sticking around; both for her help with their goals and just bc Tragen values her as a partner. He admires her growth and resilience, she admires his bravery and sacrifice(both admire the other’s inner strength), they work fantastically well as a team--by the SoR prelude they can practically read each other’s minds, and his future plans rely heavily on her being there. Which she’s all too happy to do.

(both of them are halfway in love at this point and both are completely oblivious to it. There’s no pining--yet--bc neither has a clue the true nature of their feelings-- largely bc they both come from planets where marriages are usually for politics over love, and then their respective orders; the Sith encourage lust, not love, and the Jedi ofc with their acting like Love Is Bad Bc Attachments)

I’m toying with headcanon-ing that Tragen’s acquaintance with Lana and Theron starts with the Depths of Manaan flashpoint, bc I’m verrryyyy conflicted about him doing Attack on Tython. It feels OOC for him(I played him through it, but it didn’t sit right >.>).Whatever I do there, his familiarity with Vitiate’s nature makes him all the more frantic to stop Revan bc seriously, man, you don’t know what you’re doing, this is going to end so very VERY badly. He is, of course, right, and he hates it.The disgust he’s always felt for Vitiate multiplies exponentially at the end, when Mr. Embodiment of Pure Evil and Dickishness escapes and promises to consume his Wrath last since Tragen’s “special” to him(which makes his skin crawl; he doesn’t want to be valued by something so evil). And like all my Force-users, Ziost hits him really hard. He’s more familiar with how evil Vitiate is, so on that score he’s braced himself. But even with his mediocre Force connection, all of that terror and death so fast hits him hard--though not as hard as it hits Jaesa. She goes catatonic for a little bit, which scares Tragen half to death. It’s only about 5-10 minutes, but he recovered in under a minute, so it still feels like an eternity. And she’s quiet and closed off the rest of the day.

The one good thing to come out of SoR-RotE (aside from new friends), is Tragen can now openly, full-throttle oppose Vitiate and it’s okay. More than okay, Darth Marr himself approves. And being the Empire’s Wrath instead of the Emperor’s has him back with the increased leeway to do his own thing which makes it possible to work(still subtly) toward reforming the Empire. And he’s more sure they need it than ever now; with Vitiate out there as a threat, he’s pretty sure the Empire and Republic will have to ally again to deal with him. That’ll be much easier to do it they aren’t so wildly different. His progress may be measured in inches, but he has time; he’s not going anywhere.

Or so he thinks.

(KotFE onward coming soon in a separate post)

#queen in space #tragen xo'ric #wow that's a lot #tolja i have many MANY feelings about my boy here #otp: my north star

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gffa · 6 years

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Hey! I just finished listening to the ROTS audiobook for the first time and GAWWWD i loved it. So beautiful, so heartbreaking, so tragic. So many incredible descriptions of characters and themes. So many hilarious lines and quips. But I gotta ask, during his commune with Qui-Gon, Yoda claims that the Jedi lost because they failed to change with the times whereas the Sith had evolved. Yoda apologizes to Qui-Gon for not seeing the wisdom he possessed and for being too rigid and traditional. (1/2)

(Actually 2/3) But this kinda goes against everything the Jedi and Star Wars stand for. If the Jedi are defenders of the light, peace, and balance since time immemorial, and are presented as such in the narrative (servants of the senate, forced into a war as a trap by Palpatine), how can Yoda claim that it was the fault of the Jedi they lost? And how can he claim that Luke and Leia should explicitly not be taught in the old ways (not forming attachments) if such ways are NOT wrong?(3/3) I’m Jedi fan #2 (after you of course) so hearing Yoda lament himself and his teachings in this novelization feels bad man. It certainly doesn’t come across in the movies or any other canon material. The whole idea the “flawed Jedi Order” is so annoying coming from Jedi-hating fans who misunderstand the movies but after reading this…I just can’t believe it. Thoughts?

Hi! You’re super sweet to think to ask me about this and I do love everything I’ve read of the ROTS novelzation because IT IS SO PAINFUL IN THE BEST WAY. As heartwrenching as it is, this is why I’m in here in SW fandom because look at all the feelings it gives me!As for where the Jedi went wrong re: the ROTS novelization, it’s sort of summed up in these two passages, when you consider the context of the galaxy around them–that this is about politics and not morals. Here’s Yoda’s thoughts on fighting with Sidious:

Finally, he saw the truth. This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known… just-didn’t-have it. He’d never had it. He had lost before he started. He had lost before he was born. The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years’ intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves. They had become new. While the Jedi-The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war. The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when war itself had become the dark’s own weapon?

Then the passage from the ROTS novel about Yoda’s talk with Qui-Gon:

And the Force answered him. Do not blame yourself, my old friend. As it sometimes had these past thirteen years, when the Force spoke to him, it spoke in the voice of Qui-Gon Jinn. “Too old I was,” Yoda said. “Too rigid. Too arrogant to see that the old way is not the only way. These Jedi, I trained to become the Jedi who had trained me, long centuries ago-but those ancient Jedi, of a different time they were. Changed, has the galaxy. Changed, the Order did not-because let it change, I did not.” More easily said than done, my friend. “An infinite mystery is the Force.” Yoda lifted his head and turned his gaze out into the wheel of stars. “Much to learn, there still is.” And you will have time to learn it.

There’s also a line from Wild Space, about how “Too old I am to be the last hope of the Jedi.” Yoda thinks and, okay, Legends, but it always illustrated to me Yoda’s dilemma pretty well–they’re in a time of something they’ve never faced before and aren’t prepared for, because they’re not politicians and they’re not soldiers, they’re shoved into that role and run ragged so they never have a chance to recover or barely even breathe between fights, they’re manipulated into either this path or just not helping others at all, AOTC literally tells us that the Force is so clouded in the galaxy that it’s compromised for them. Everything the Jedi had to rely on was crumbled away from them and so of course everyone ran right straight to Yoda because he had the most experience and they were looking for guidance.I’m also going to draw a lot on the Star Wars Propaganda post I made (which is a long read, like 5k words long, so I don’t expect anyone to have to Do Homework for this post, the basic summary is: the Jedi’s greatest flaw was that they were bad at PR, because they are not talked about in the same way that the corruption and moral decay of the overall Republic is) because I feel like these two things overlap a fair amount, because it’s a great meta book on the state of affairs of the GFFA, and because it really lays this all out well!The thing about all of this is that it’s also to be taken with a grain of salt, that this is Yoda’s point of view in the very lowest point of his life, he’s just witnessed the deaths almost every Jedi and their entire culture, the Republic has fallen, they were ground down in this war they thought would be worth the sacrifices they were making, but instead everything was ashes. Of course he’s going to feel like everything is wrong, that they were mistaken, because that’s a normal reaction to have in the moment!But it’s also about the structure of the prequels, in that politics are a huge, huge part of EVERYTHING that is going on. One of the major themes of the prequels was ALL ABOUT Bush era politics, that’s why we had all those scenes with the Senate and all that stuff about taxes and trade routes and treaties–because that is the Republic that they had built up. Politics set the stage for this.And the Jedi’s greatest failure is that they did not evolve to meet this new political climate. They believed their actions would speak for them, rather than getting out into the spotlight to deliberately craft the narrative they were assigned. They believed that tradition and trying to stay out of politics was the path that would be best for everyone–they were with the Republic (under Senate jurisdiction) because a thousand years ago the Senate asked them to become part of the Republic so that they could help smooth over the lingering war outbreaks after the last great war. But they did not evolve to be political masterminds–while the Sith did.Palpatine didn’t kill the Jedi through being the best ever at using a lightsaber, he achieved the Jedi genocide through politics. By becoming Chancellor. By painting the Jedi as the narrative he wanted them painted with, rather than what the truth was about them. By studying how they interacted with the Republic, their lore, and using it against them on a political stage. By engineering a galaxy-wide war the was specifically designed to destroy them and destablize the entire galaxy so that they wouldn’t protest when the Empire rose.It says it right here: The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; they could not be burned away by any torch of the Force. The brighter his light, the darker their shadow. How could one win a war against the dark, when war itself had become the dark’s own weapon?The war itself had become the dark’s weapon. So, that’s where the Jedi went wrong–they met a war with physically fighting back against it instead of becoming politicians who would use the war itself as a weapon, rather than a lightsaber. They weren’t good enough at politics.Being bad at politics isn’t an inherently bad thing, there’s a reason a lot of politicians get portrayed as slimy and gross, that it’s rare to find truly good people who are also good at politics. Star Wars itself hammers this point home pretty clearly, that people like Bail and Padme stand out because they’re good people in the swamp of the rest of the Senate! And it’s not inherently a bad thing to be part of the system, because that’s how you can affect change, by working from the inside, by using the authority given to you to help the most people.And the point was, that they were trying to find balance in the middle and their balance (willing to help, to be part of the system so they can reach people who need them) is not inherently bad, but the political climate around them made it so that it was used against them. To want to remain a step apart so that they could be used as neutral negotiators wasn’t bad, because that system literally worked for a thousand years, that’s probably the longest stretch of peace the galaxy has ever had! It was only over the span of a handful of years that all this changed and they weren’t fast enough to adapt, they thought they could weather out this storm and they were wrong.It’s not as simple as “Oh, we were so wrong, we were so uncompromising, we were bad and terrible!” because that would take things out of the important context they come with. This wasn’t about the Force or really even about being a Jedi or a Sith. This was about narrative, propaganda, legal authority, and politics.

#jedi #jedi order #meta #shmi skywalkers #long post #i just COULD NOT figure out where the hell to put a read more on this thing #so sorry about the dash killer #i'm trying not to honest!

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cassatine · 6 years

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Okay so! THE LAST JEDI. I wanted to do a coherent post and all but hings happened so. Spoilers ahead. Like a lot of spoilers. I recommend not reading if you haven’t seen the movie. No really don’t.

The [tl:dr]: I loved it! I’m also glad I saw it twice. First viewing felt like a weird mix of things I’d expected (including things I expected two years ago and had started thinking would Not Happen) but the way it all worked together was a punch to the gut. Also I cried a lot, which is not great for visibility. Second viewing was more enjoyable. There’s something very smoke and mirror to the story; it plays with expectations and then turns things on their head. It’s a very clever movie, tho it’s definitely got its flaws. I hardly felt the two hours and a half, could actually have done with a longer runtime because some things moved really fast. It’s also very funny, when it’s not breaking your heart and stepping repeatedly on it. In a (mostly) good way.

The more or less good:

Starting with that assault on the Dreadnought and Paige Tico’s death, the Resistance plot went where SW rarely does. Poe learning to look at the big picture and the sad economics of war and resistance, the bleeding out of Resistance forces, the unsurprising reveal that god guys and bad guys buy their military hardware from the the same sources, it’s a relentless onslaught. The New Republic is a non-entity, the First Order has weapons aplenty, and the stage is set for a new Empire to be born and a new Rebellion to rise, and it’s all very tragic, but it’s a Star Wars, so of course the good guys live to fight another day light the spark at the end, a source of inspiration for every child escaped from a Dickens novel across the GFFA

Finn and Rose’s plot was lovely - Rose was altogether amazing, and her line about fighting to protect what you love rather than destroy what you hate is... a tad cheesy i guess but in the best of ways. I love that she wants to protect her sister’s memory and that it’s freeing the farthiers that makes the Canto Bight events worth it (i mean they’ll probably be caught again in less than a week because that’s the way of the world, but attagirl!), and that “I saved you, dummy” line. That one reviewer that called her the heart of the movie was pretty much right.

Luke throwing the saber behind him. Mark Hamill was nothing short of great, but this moment was so very understated and yet so defining, so meaningful. also: Rey’s reaction.

Actually everything to do with Luke was pretty great. His backstory was kept sparse, but he’s basically following in his master’s footsteps by exiling himself on a nowhere planet after a massive fuck-up, very poetic. Being a Skywalker he’s got to take it one step further drama-wise, with the whole *the Jedi will die with me* thing. Vanity!, screams ghost Yoda.

I love that it’s fundamentally a movie about failure, and what you do after. Luke’s failure of Ben looms large, and behind it there’s the Jedi Order’s failure but he’s not the only one. Poe fails at being a leader. Finn and Rose’s mission fails. Rey fails to turn Kylo, who kind of fails as a general rule. He failed and was failed by Luke, and he kind of failed Snoke as an apprentice, from a certain point of view. All the Resistance’s plans fail. Snoke fails and die. Chewie fails at keeping porgs away. It’s a debacle left and right, and then the 3D-marionette-Yoda gives us deep words of deeper wisdom than even Rose’s, reminding us that in every failure there’s a lesson. When it doesn’t kill you or you’re not a casualty for someone else’s lesson at least hahahaha.

The Jedi Order’s founding texts and Yoda’s “page-turners they are not” yes thank you

Snoke and his playing up Kylo and Hux against each other. From the moment he humiliated Hux publicly to his final words, Snoke is skin-crawling awful, moreso than in TFA. There’s not one moment I don’t want to point to and go “eeeeew” about, srsly.

Chewie eating a porg. I feel so validated.

Kylo’s epic love story with bad choices. Attaboy.

Force Bond. CAN YOU PUT ON A COWL SOMETHING thanks for this most cliché scene straight out of a romance novel I AM LIVING!!! fucking hell. On a similar note, Rey and Kylo’s handsex. fingertips sex? whatever, it was just wow, tag ur metaphorical porn star wars, please. also: Luke’s reaction.

Vice-Admiral Holdo is the lady of my heart and if she had to die I guess her death scene was a crowning moment of awesome at least. I wonder if the discourse will now feature fights about “if it was that easy they’d have done it with the Death Stars” and “why didn’t they.” Not looking forward to that. Not looking forward any of the discourse. At all.

The Rey parentage reveal. The scenes on Ahch-to with the dark side spot calling to her and the vision were some of my favourites, and well, Rey Random’s always been my horse, so! Very satisfying. I’m kind of wary at this point, and not sure how much trust I can put in Kylo’s words tbh, but I’m choosing to believe.

THE THRONE ROOM FIGHT WITH THE LOBSTERGUARDS??? The beginning with Rey and Kylo back to back was EVERYTHING and the whole thing was just perfect G O D

And then the Kylo/Luke fight happened and wow

RENPEROR i mean - this is the one thing i wanted and had stopped believing in and i got it, he turned against Snoke in yet another crowning moment of awesome (HIS REAL ENEMY!!) and made Hux go long live the supreme leader - at which point i started to pity Hux. He’s having a no good, very bad, terrible day and he suffers so much it’s all kinds of amazing. Anyway, by the end of TLJ, Kylo’s more sympathetic than he was in TFA imo (for general audiences) and graduating to big bad. I kind of expected one or the other, but both at once?

Something in me is disappointed at the Force plot - I wanted weird eldritch Force shit, and I guess I got some on Ahch-to, but nothing to do with Snoke. As much as I like pretty much everything, including how Snoke’s death subverted expectations and changed the game, I kind of miss the road(s) not taken.

Speaking of subverted expectations - I think I need (more) sleep and another viewing or two or three to decide how much I actually like it all, but expectations were masterfully subverted. Who Snoke is doesn’t matter because he’s dead, Kylo is still conflicted, Rey kind of became a Jedi but wow does she flirt with the dark side, and Rey Skywalker was found dead and butchered in Miami. The Resistance ends up in tatters, Luke is busy with self-exile and never technically leaves Ahch-to

REY STOLE THE BOOKS oh my girl lbr i would have too

Luke’s final projection act and how beautifully set up it was and his reunion with Leia. Insert river of tears.

The more or less bad and the stuff that made me sad:

Yoda looked fugly. I can’t not say it.

I loved Amilyn, and her death was a crowning moment of awesome, but also, a woman died so a man could learn a lesson

on a similar note, a species (nick)named the Caretakers made up of feminine aliens engaged in (mostly) feminine-coded activities

DJ was rather underwhelming as a character

Rey went really fast from murderous snake monster to ~touching Kylo’s hand - timeline wise, all this happens in huh less... than... 18... hours?? though Ahch-to is like, a vergence, which means time passes differently there, it’s just never made explicit, and it’s still less than 18 hours for Kylo Ben - head hurts - in any case just one more force convo laden with tension could have helped

*Everything* happened really fast tbh. There were a lot of twists and turns, and as I said it’s very clever, but sometimes at the expanse of character growth? it’s a bit bumpier a road

FUCKING INTENDED BOOK BURNING WHAT IS IT WITH YOU STAR WARS WEREN’T THE JEDI ARCHIVES ENOUGH??

RENPEROR yeah it’s both in the good AND the bad because: i wanted it, i wanted it dearly, but also: what. no really, what.

noooooo rey don’t close the door on kylo don’t nooooo

Okay that’s not much on the bad and there’s things i’m undecided on but that’s long enough.

#star wars #the last jedi #spoilers #i need a bucketful of coffee and for my hangover to go away #meta #lol more like a lot of squee #i'll be more critical later probably #when i'm done with the squeeing

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phosphorescent-naidheachd · 6 years

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SWTLJ, A Condensed Review

(No major spoilers for TLJ, though there are some general expectation spoilers; read at your own risk)

I’m still really confused as to how I feel about TLJ. It wasn’t an inherently bad movie and I appreciate that it didn’t pander to viewers as blatantly as TFA did, but it didn’t feel like an organic continuation of TFA, either. I may be wrong, but TLJ gave me the impression that RJ wasn’t particularly interested in making a sequel to someone else’s film. In fact, the disconnect between TFA and TLJ was significant enough that I feel like JJA and RJ either didn’t communicate with one another at all or RJ seriously disagreed with the direction that JJA was taking the series and decided to ignore everything that happened in TFA except for the most glaring of plot points (i.e. Han is killed by Kylo/Ben, Luke is incommunicado off on Ach-To and Rey has been sent to retrieve him, etc.). So even though TLJ ostensibly takes place directly after the end of TFA, they don’t feel like they belong together... and it isn’t just due to different directorial styles.

There were lots of concepts and themes (and a few major characterization/narrative choices, particularly w/r/t Luke, Leia, & Poe) in the film that I think could have worked for me if they’d been done a bit differently and/or built to properly, but their execution was such that I couldn’t fully get behind them. This irks me for two main reasons: #1. Stories are all about the characters for me, so when I can’t buy a characterization choice, it throws me out of the story, and #2. I like some of the themes underlying TLJ, which means that I really wish they had been executed in a manner that worked for me.

While I suspect it was unintentional, there were some weird double-standards with regards to how protagonists of color were narratively treated in TLJ when compared to their white counterparts (both in this film and in past films) that made me rather uncomfortable. I think part of the problem is that TLJ tried to turn the Loose Cannon/Military Maverick trope on its head and show why that sort of behavior is usually A Bad Thing in RL---and this is a totally worthy cause IMO!---but forgot that: A. the SW universe has, up until now, generally rewarded characters for this sort of behavior; what does it say that the characters who aren’t white are the only ones we see narratively punished for it?, and B. You can’t always treat characters of color the same way that you treat white characters, because characters of color have never been treated the same as their white counterparts. You have to be careful that in averting one trope you don’t fall into/reinforce another one that has its roots in racism, and so on.

On a similar note, I rarely feel comfortable with violence being played for laughs or ‘empowerment’ or being used by one character in order to ‘teach’ another character a ‘lesson’---especially when the perpetrators are meant to be the Good Guys, and doubly especially when it’s being leveled against characters of color by white characters---and this film was no exception to that.

Having said all of the above, I did love all of the visual diversity we got in the movie… in particular, the fact that there were lots of women of different ages and races (and, to a considerably lesser degree, species) shown to be part of the Resistance!!

Oh, and I <3 Rose Tico. The end.

I understand and greatly appreciate the point(s) of the Canto Bight subplot, but... there was something missing there for me, especially w/r/t Finn’s role in it. I don’t know. I can’t seem to fully articulate my thoughts on this right now. *shrugs*

TLJ’s pacing could have used some work, IMO, but that’s A. not unusual for a Star Wars film in the slightest and B. nothing that a good editor or two couldn’t have fixed. There were some gorgeous visual shots and some odd plot holes but, like poor pacing and use of cutting-edge technology, both of these are also more or less par for the course for your average Star Wars film. ;-)

Last but not least, for a film with the word “Jedi” in its title, I didn’t get the impression that RJ thought very deeply about the Force or the Jedi, let alone managed to decide what the film should do with them outside of cool fight scenes and Luke-related angst. The film was trying to make a statement about the Jedi, but---although the film brought up some good points---its message didn’t come across as a very coherent statement. (Also, I remain eternally bitter about that stupid Chosen One prophecy that was introduced in the prequels. No one in or out of universe can agree on what “balance” in the Force looks like, so it seems to change with every film/book/etc. and I groan almost every time.)

However, all of these are simply my initial impressions. My thoughts may well change on a rewatch and/or after SW IX comes out. I probably missed some things and misinterpreted others on my first viewing of the movie, after all. And it can be difficult to judge a middle film on its own merits; this is doubly true when you don’t have the final film to hand to know which pieces of foreshadowing and plot threads are simply being delayed for the finale vs. which have been dropped altogether, etc.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#YMMV and that's OK #if you want to know my thoughts on anything specific feel free to ask!#to be fair i have my issues w/ TFA too... and w/ nearly every SW movie... doesn't stop me from loving the characters & universe tho #phos watches #things done by phos #swtlj #star wars sequels #star wars

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theethird · 7 years

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Crazy Star Wars Theory Time - Tar Viszla and the Edgiest Saber

So to sum this post up, Tarre Viszla is the retconned Tor Viszla, or part of a larger origin story for two differing ideologies among Mandalorians. And his saber is proof that crystals are a lot smarter than we give them credit for in SW. Here we go. SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY. So Tarre Viszla was announced in Rebels as the first and possibly only Mandalorian Jedi in the history of the order, who befitting his status created a unique lightsaber that his descendants would later steal and use as a rallying symbol for the clans after his death. Now to deviate for a moment, Tor Viszla was the foil to the heroic Jaster Mereel of SW Legends lore, the antithesis of everything honorable about a Mandalorian. Tor was the creator of the Death Watch, a group that he felt honored the old ways of the Mandalorians from their warring and raiding days,while Jaster was a firm believer in the honorable ideals of his people, fitting his status as a Protector and eventual mentor of iconic Mandalorian (now a supposed pretender), Jango Fett. Now this is where things get tricky. So we know from Mando'a that the word Tor means justice, and the color for justice in Mandalorian culture is Black. What color is the Darksaber? Black. Let's take it a step further. Let's assume for a moment that Tor and Tarre exist along the same timeline, and that Tor was the descendant who claimed the blade from its resting place in the Temple, a callback to his name. It would make sense that perhaps Tor didn't have the full story about his father or ancestor and simply saw him as a wayward mandalorian who created a weapon worthy of his people's fealty. And obviously no one but the Jedi would have the full story considering they kept his saber locked away after his death, which suggests he was either buried in the temple in honor or that they kept his discovery under lock and key because of how it could be used. Switching lanes for a moment here, let's examine the colors of lightsabers, now that we know that all kyber crystals are white until they tune to their users alignment with the Force and possible motivation. In our world color mixing has a few rules but when it regards black and white it gets interesting. White is all lights combined, but is the absence of color (in paint). Black is all colors (in paint) combined, but is the absence of light. We know that Red sabers come from forcing the darkside into a crystal and thus making it bleed, and we know that the most common colors were Blue and Green, which if their users are any indication, Blue was more for physical Jedi (ex - Young Obi, Anakin, Ezra's first blade, etc) while Green was reserved for those more mental in focus (ex - Qui-Gon, Yoda, Luke's actual lightsaber) We also know that white sabers can only come from purifying crystals but can also signify ones search for balance in the Force, such as Ahsoka who no longer saw herself as a Jedi, but clung to the light even while walking alone. Her experience on Mortis with the darkside, though removed from her memories, left her touched, as the Convor is proof of, and her choice to follow the light beyond the boundaries of the order all play into her saber colors being white when she makes her second set. Touching more on this color theory for a second, Mace attuned his crystal to purple which in Legends can be attributed to either side, and if color blending is to be trusted, is a balance of Red and Blue, which fits his physical saber style that draws from the darkness to serve the light (red into blue) rather than seeking a balance like Ahsoka's which would cause her to negate the darkness in the crystal with her innate light. Going a step further, while Yellow is a primary color, it isn't a principle saber color, meaning we'd have to cross red and green to get there and if what we know of yellow saber users in either canon is true, it is either the natural state of the crystal/saber, or an indication of a user seeking to defend the light with a passion that toes the line. We have Bastila who is more mental in her focus of the Force, but is easily turned dark due to her passion for both the order and Revan being used against her by Malak, we have the Temple guardians, one of whom fell to darkness and became the Grand Inquisitor due to unknown circumstances, only to be redeemed by Kanan which is confirmed from beyond the grave when he knights him later on. So by now we know that crystals can be tuned to a different color if taken by a user from opposing ends of the spectrum, but typically only end up as white or possibly yellow, as purple was a rare case. Going back to Viszla, it is possible to surmise that in his forming of a lightsaber he may have sought to balance his heritage with his teachings, or sought to combine his knowledge of weapon making from his people with his knowledge of the Force. I like to suggest that he crafted the Darksaber using beskar in some portion to act as a focusing element for the crystal, which would explain it's sharp katana like shape and possibly its cracked appearance on the blade. But also going on what we know of colors, in that white is the presence of light but the absence of color and black is the absence of light but the presence of all colors, and that in lightsaber color mixing, hues can show alignment to a side or an ideology, where Ahsokas white sabers are a reflection of her pure light nature but the rejection of any ideology but her own, Tarre's could have been an acknowledgment of his combination of all martial styles on either side, but an absence of light for the most part. Now this gets even more complicated considering that he was a Jedi who did not fall to the darkside according to records, but could've left the order at some point, or possibly left and was taken down with the official records altered to hide his discovery. Whatever the case, let's assume that Tarre was honorable because the Jedi kept his blade, but not only that, but because of the presence of white light on his dark blade. You're probably thinking, well it needs a white outline to make it visible, so that's a technicality, and that's right, from a certain point of view. But let's assume that the darksaber is designed much like a black hole, and that it feeds on the pure Force presence in all beings, regardless of sensitivity or not. The white streaks are an indication that this crystal was not made to bleed, but instead it was created as an anti Jedi countermeasure from within the order. It would fit the idea that Mandalorian technology is perpetuated by a need to overcome the Force, even in the hands of one who could wield it, and that a sentient crystal could sense the purpose of a young Jedi from a culture opposed to the Force simply because of circumstance. It is no coincidence then that the color of a saber this unique would be Black, the color of justice in his own culture, potentially meant to be used by anyone willing to train to use it effectively, to level the playing field against the Force users warring over balance in the galaxy. Back to the name. and this part is pure my idea on the subject. This was easy simply because, Tor and Tarre are very similar sounding and initially many sites wrote Tarre as just Tar. I'm certain that Filoni in his research of existing mandalorian canon before the EU purge saw the name of the leader of the Death Watch and saw an opportunity to take that name and give it a greater purpose. Like rewriting it and attaching it to a Mandalorian Jedi who could've found out the truth of who he was when the war against his own people was in full swing, causing him to abandon the order long enough to learn the truth about both sides, only to return to battle to stop the war on the side of the Jedi but possibly at the cost of his own life, creating a legend among his own people of his blade, worthy to be wielded by one destined to lead Mandalore in its revenge against the Jedi. I mean if you're going to try and canonize KOTOR without Revan, why not just kill two birds with one stone. Give Revan a new name and angle for leaving the order that removes the godhood but keeps the mythic nature of that eras hero in a new form. Also explains a Jedi in a Mandalorian mask. And if you wanna take it a step further, let's look at the legacy of the Viszla clan, always a step away from leadership, but always in the business of creating weapons for the advancement of their people, whether they be literal (Tarre and Sabine) or ideological, like the Death Watch (as founded by Tor* and led by Pre Viszla) yet always having these weapons used against them. It creates a scenario where Sabine inheriting the Darksaber but finally using it to unite her people and give it to a rightful heir that can strike back at the darkside of the Force, attaining justice for all Mandalorians, is the fulfilment of a larger legacy, something that SW is big on. And for extra kicks, if the darksaber eventually ends up in the hands of a certain Fett, whose father is considered a false Mandalorian, and he becomes Mandalore, it brings the EU story of Jango to a vindication point, where a semi factual origin story frames the struggle between honor and pride in a warrior race capable enough without the Force to challenge the Jedi and Sith. So yeah, that's my crazy idea, and hopefully if I'm right, we can all look at this as a moment when an outsider called it on the nose. Or we can laugh at the silly fan fiction when I'm wrong. Either way that's the beauty of SW. So much lore not enough budget or time to do it all. Color Theory comes from Reddit user AndreLoga General Theory of Lightsaber Color https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/5vu0g1/general_theory_of_lightsaber_color/?ref=search_posts

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