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#WOT cultures
poohsticksbridge · 5 months
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I find myself perplexed by how readily even some platonic MoLan shippers tuck the Aes Sedai and her Warder into bed together.
Not be a stickler for canon (y’all do you), but I can’t recall them once sharing a bed in the books. Am I forgetting/overlooking a reference? (Genuine question.)
My assumption is that this stems, somewhat, from in ‘intimacy’ of the bath scene in episode 1.01 (even though Mo specifies “one room, two beds” upon their arrival at the Winespring.
The thing about the bath scene, it’s such a great straightbaiting feint. Absolutely consistent with the canon Shienaran bathing practices from the books. Co-Ed public bathing and all that, nothing romantic or sexual about it.
The only stretch of that scene being, what’s a tub like that doing in the Two Rivers? Do members of the Women’s Circle have weekly meet ups there, where they drink wine while they overshare or something?
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jaqobis · 8 months
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it's like. wot takes such a long time to really Become wot, even in the books, that it's incredibly exciting to start hitting material that is quintessential...wheel of time
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highladyluck · 7 months
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Trying to imagine darkfriend!Egwene and my brain just spits out an error message
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grendel-menz · 9 months
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markantonys · 10 months
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the costume designers obviously meant the damane mouthpieces as a further debasement and a way of showing just how little power they have, in a manner that is especially fitting for the seanchan culture where rank/status dictates whether and to whom a person is allowed to speak. but the side effect of them looking like pacifiers for babies, which some people are complaining about? well, it's book canon that damane are infantilized and treated like pets, so if you're weirded out by seeing grown women wearing something akin to baby pacifiers, then that says the costume is doing its job.
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mashithamel · 9 months
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How did the Seanchan, the most superstitious people in the world who see omens in the way a butterfly flaps its wings or the shape a cloud makes, and people of the “if you’ve forgotten the oaths we made up and never told you based on Artur Hawkwing being the most important person ever we’re probably going to stick you in a cage until you die of dehydration and exposure,” not recognize Artur Hawkwing charging at them, or at least take a good look at the Heros of the Horn coming out of a mist to defeat them, and not a one of them thought:
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illusions-in-octarine · 8 months
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Book SPOILERS - SKIP IF SHOW-ONLY
I LOVE this Aviendha, can't wait for her to meet Rand and affectionately mock the living daylights out of the Dragon Reborn.
I can see Stradowski's rough sincerity and Smart's sharp joy working very well together. She's cracking wit at Perrin! She's been out of captivity - should I say, a Box - for all of a few hours and she's deriving happiness from messing with her free-r and fellow traveler. She has a debt and it doesn't phase her for a beat! The antithesis of "duty heavier than a mountain". Duty and joy existing side by side.
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halcyon-autumn · 8 months
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Me when the wheel of time show is different from the books: adaptation requires changes be made to the source material to fit a different medium, and it’s possible to capture - or even enhance - the spirit of the original text while making significant changes
Me when the Seanchan don’t have a Texan drawl: boooooo they changed it
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mummer · 7 months
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being mean to robert jordan again. i hate rand's stupid fucking harem so bad. aviendha and rand romance is doing absolutely fuckall for me. tbh the fact that on a surface level she’s meant to be independent and fierce but for plot/worldbuilding reasons (""For Honour"") she’s completely and utterly subservient to him is so fucking wack and gross to me. and then the exact same thing happens with min too. shes literally masc but shes constantly getting punished by being forced to wear dresses or serveeeee men and meanwhile she is always thinking about being in love with rand (i dont even remember if theyve met in the books??) because it's prophecied or whatever. like less bad cause sometimes she's ambivalent but still bad. AWFUL. TERRIBLE
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sixth-light · 2 years
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This post by @lesbiancytherea, as well as @butterflydm‘s ongoing series re-read made me think about how one of the things RJ did pretty well - not perfectly but well - was grasp that there are significant differences between how cultures understand themselves, how other cultures familiar with them see them from the outside, and what is seen by someone engaging with a culture for the first time. And that stereotype and prejudice can play a really strong role in how cultures are viewed externally, to the extent that this view can be almost unconnected to how the culture actually operates. Importantly, I think he also grasped that 1) there can be significant ELEMENTS of truth to all three of those possible viewpoints, but none is the ‘most’ true, because culture isn’t something that has an objective truth, and 2) stereotype/prejudice generally arises as a twisted version of something that is true, coloured strongly by what the external culture finds convenient or useful to believe.
This plays out most obviously w/r/t the Tuatha’an and the Aiel, where ‘wetlander’ understandings of how their cultures operate are just flat-out wrong for the most part, based on limited engagement - black veils used ritually in battle become ‘black-eyed Aiel’ who will kill anybody at any time, the Tuatha’an’s strong and unique philosophical/religious stance and nomadic lifestyle, which attract some people to join them, become child-snatching. It plays out more subtly with the Seanchan, who have very strong top-down propaganda/beliefs about how their culture operates, with extreme oppression and authoritarianism necessary to maintain stability and order, when their history and expectations demonstrate that they have never been stable or orderly or safe - *because of* their authoritarian regime. But you also get it between Randland countries, c.f. how Murandians think about Andorans and Andorans think about Cairhienin, with none of their views being universally true. Also, for the most part people are allowed to be people, whatever their culture. (I think this falls down most significantly for the Atha’an Miere in later books, where Atha’an Miere characters are boxed into being roadblocks for the sake of the plot needing roadblocks rather than having individual personalities.)
Anyway, if I have a point here, I think it’s that in retrospect this is one of the things Sanderson just doesn’t get very well in his books. He operates on a much more Planet of Hats vibe where there ARE objective, universal truths about cultures (whether their own or external). Which is how suddenly Seanchan rule in Altara brings stability when their invasions of Falme, Tarabon and Amadicia were marked by chaos, oppression, and massive disruption to the lives of ordinary people, and the Aiel are only capable of being warriors. It’s of a piece somehow with the way character start saying everything out loud instead of operating on unspoken assumptions and beliefs. IDK if you can call RJ ‘subtle’ as a writer but one of his strengths was a real grasp of things believed but not said and how they matter. It was a shame to lose that. 
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aldieb · 6 months
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i’m watching ep 7… i have no beef yet tbh. i’ve been placated with fanservice in the form of lan and rand’s scene from tgh + the cut between siuan going “we’d have been so much better off if you were a girl” and egwene is 👌
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onaperduamedee · 1 year
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I am putting together an outfit for a pre-Amyrlin Siuan doodle, in the vein of what the other Aes Sedai are wearing in the show, so more practical and influenced by her culture, but that would also incorporate hints of her status as head of the blue spy network.
However, as I am not a fashion designer, I struggle to figure out a traditional Tairen outfit from the book descriptions only, so I welcome suggestions of design and patterns!
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jaqobis · 1 year
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you know a thing i really appreciate about rand al’thor is how, like, he discovers the forsaken are afoot and he wastes NO TIME before getting down to business killing them
like, you’d expect that maybe a sweet boy like rand would have some reservations about murder, at least early on? but nope, he remembers every single one of those childhood stories about the forsaken and the bogeyman is NOT going to get him first, thanks
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ephemeral-winter · 1 year
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hold on... there’s a theory about the voynich manuscript that involves lesbian nuns in renaissance italy bathing together and trying to reproduce parthenogenetically... obviously nonsense... but uh the white tower just called; the aes sedai but especially the browns have a LOT to say about this
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butterflydm · 2 years
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wot reread: crossroads of twilight (prologue - chap 9)
spoilers through... mostly crossroads of twilight (I have to admit that my brain is not certain where CoT ends and KoD begins; they kinda blur together).
wish me luck.
1. The opening quotation literally sounds like Jordan is saying to us all: Slog Time is in full swing! “The right hand falters and the left hand strays”. No, this is the tenth book in the series why are you doing this to me. That being said... I guess I will say that Perrin is the hand that falters and Mat is the hand that strays, even though it should be the other way around because Mat was absolutely Rand’s right-hand man.
2. So, imo, one of the main issues that happened during the Slog was that Jordan started these new subplots back in LoC/ACoS and then... lost sight of what the narrative PURPOSE of the subplots were supposed to be and started just writing them for their own sake, as if they were the main plots. Perrin’s ‘kidnapped wife’ subplot straight-up shouldn’t have happened at all but, if it did, it should have been wrapped up in a single book. What his actual plot should have been about was the tension of killing or not killing Masema, which is a question that actually goes to the heart of Perrin’s characterization and his place as one of Rand’s childhood friends!
Is it okay to kill a dangerous man who isn’t a threat to you personally but has caused enormous destruction in his wake? Very relevant question, because lots of people want to kill or control RAND because he’s a dangerous man who brings destruction in his wake. The only Perrin pages that I will consider relevant are the ones dealing with this issue, thanks! Everything else can (and should, in the TV series) be tossed away.
3. Mat’s subplot losing its way is actually worse, because Winter’s Heart gave us some strong narrative promises about him and left him off on a relatively exciting note... and then we immediately slow everything down in this book when his plot would have been much better served by a quick pace, focusing on the elements that Winter’s Heart told us would matter: Seanchan characters questioning their empire, the issue of the sul’dam, and the future slaver empress being a woman who is capable of channeling but being destined to marry a man who (last book) despises slavery and is wary of women who can channel, literally her two main things. In Mat’s storyline, I’m also going to be keeping an eye on characterization reversals from previous books.
4. We basically skipped Egwene last book, so this should now be the book where she does the siege of Tar Valon; this is also the book where Elayne is going to defend Caemlyn against a mysterious army. Those are the two things that the narrative told us last book would happen. I feel like Elayne probably holds up her end of the narrative deal; she usually does. But we’ll see! CoT & KoD really merge together in my brain and I’m not certain what happens in which of the books. But both Elayne and Egwene have kept their eyes on the prize so far -- Elayne on securing rulership of Andor and Egwene on securing rulership of the Aes Sedai, both tasks that need to be accomplished for the Last Battle, so honestly they both get gold stars simply because they haven’t gotten distracted away from the main plot of this story: defeating the Dark One at the Last Battle.
5. We don’t know what Rand and Nynaeve’s plans are for after the cleansing, only that they were both really tired and Cadsuane was being creepy and possessive of Rand at the end of Winter’s Heart. Their storyline moved ahead of everyone else’s at the end of the last book, so we will also see everyone else catch up to them in this book, probably.
6. And now we dive into the prologue. This is the other place where the Slog comes into play: too many random PoVs. Some of these are worthwhile and some of them just felt kinda pointless. Though, ironically, all of them are probably better (and much more succinct) than Mat and Perrin’s plotlines in this book, lol, which I’m basically tossing in the bin.
7. Rodel Ituralde has received his letter from his King via “Lady Tuva” which is actually from Graendal. What happens: he’s waiting. We do learn some info about how he is trying to hold Arad Doman together by the skin of his teeth. It’s been “less than a month” since the weather changed. We learn that he’s been getting odd orders from the King (who is in hiding) for months. How many of those orders were actually from Graendal, I wonder. Yeah, it sounds like pretty much all the orders were from Graendal, as Ituralde thinks with despair, “the orders the King sent could not have been better written to achieve chaos”. This is the fruits of Graendal’s labor during the LoC-WH era.
8. Ituralde has taken the letter as an opportunity to meet under a flag of peace (the “White Ribbon”) with Lord Shimron, who used to be one of the King’s advisors but turned Dragonsworn and sits high among the Dragonsworn in Arad Doman (and the Dragonsworn rule by council, which is interesting). He wants to set against his differences with the Dragonsworn to unite against the Seanchan invaders. Oh goodness, yes. I absolutely approve. Please unite against the Seanchan. Would love for Arad Doman to be a bulwark against them going any further to the north, just as Rand is holding Illian to stop them going any further east. Ah, the exact words of the letter are to ‘gather as many men as he can and strike against the Seanchan’. I am assuming Graendal did NOT think he would consider offering truce to the Dragonsworn and was just hoping to feed the Arad Domani army into a meatgrinder. The Dragonsworn here are both Arad Domani and Taraboner and the ones from Tarabon are VERY unhappy about the puppet King and Panarch that the Seanchan have placed on the throne in their home country. This is a good section. Worth all 15 pages. I also really appreciated us getting a chance to see Dragonsworn (who aren’t under Rand’s direct control) who also aren’t cultists like Masema’s people or using it as an excuse to be bandits. Lord Shimron and the people with him are shown to be very principled; they’ve just decided that following the Dragon is a higher calling than following their King.
9. Valda PoV and catching up with the Whitecloaks. This is literally just reminding us of things we already know about Valda and the Whitecloaks. Unnecessary. 5 pages we didn’t need. He’s bitter about the Seanchan taking the Fortress of Light - yeah, duh, of course he is. I just kinda assumed that.
10. And we’re with Gabrelle and the Black Tower now. We don’t learn anything particularly new. Taim and Logain are still at opposite sides of the Black Tower conflict. Only two weeks have passed in this storyline since we last checked in with Toveine. We could have covered this in maybe 3 pages, for the new info about Logain going recruiting.
11. Yukiri in the White Tower. The rumors are all worrying Yukiri, one of the Sisters in the White Tower, especially the ones about Rand vanishing (she wonders if Elaida’s proclamation is to blame). Anyway, Yukiri is one of the Sitters who was drawn into the Black Ajah Hunters plotline, so I’m inclined to like her part. She’s working now with one of the Gray sisters who was sent back to the Tower to spread the rumors about the Reds having raising up Logain as a False Dragon. Things have gotten even worse in the Tower, with sisters not leaving their Ajah quarters alone and always wearing their shawls. They have three names of other Black Ajah sisters from Talene: Atuan (Yellow Ajah), Galina (Red Ajah; in charge of Rand’s kidnapping and now a slave to the Shaido), and Temaile (Gray; left the Tower with Liandrin’s bunch,  currently in Caemlyn). Of them, only Atuan is in the Tower still. In order to figure out why everything Elaida knows is also known by the Black Ajah, Yukiri asks the sister to renew her old (30 years ago) friendship with Elaida. We also learn that Alviarin abruptly left the Tower yesterday. Most of this section is good and useful; I would take out the scene about the “weird Sitters” mystery.
12. Gawyn with the Sisters in the village outside Tar Valon. Gawyn is aware that standing aside the way he did and letting Rand be hurt is something that Egwene would need to ‘forgive’. Gawyn thinks about how he should have gone home (to Caemlyn) once he returned to Tar Valon and found all his Younglings expelled from the city proper. Yes, that would have been a good idea. Your loyalty is supposed to be to Caemlyn and your sister, and you know that wherever Elayne is and whatever she’s doing, she is NOT in the Tower and neither is Egwene. In fact, your most recent news for BOTH of them is that they’re loyal to Rand (since Gawyn doesn’t about Amyrlin Egwene yet). Yet he tells himself that MAYBE Elayne IS in the White Tower and arrived while he was gone, despite there being absolutely no reason for him to think that. Ah, the rebel army has arrived at the threshold of Tar Valon, we learn. And Gawyn straight-up learns from one of the newly arrived Tower Red sisters that Elayne is on the same side as the rebels and yet... stays to hear Elaida’s orders for him instead . I need @markantonys here to explain to me what goes on inside this man’s head. Because he believes that he must be loyal to the White Tower for Elayne and Egwene’s sake even though he now knows Elayne is ‘with the rebels’ and was last aware that Egwene was with Rand (or I think she left him a letter, so he probably knows she had a ~mysterious task~ but she was definitely on Rand’s side so)... I just don’t understand how this leads to “obey Elaida’s orders”? Is it decision paralysis? He can’t make a choice so he just defaults to the thing that’s in front of his face?
13. Bashere outside Caemlyn with the Legion of the Dragon. He’s studying the newly-erected camps of that army that Elayne was warned about last book -- he can spot soldiers who belong to both of the two main rival claimants to the throne of Andor, Neaen and Elenia but, more intriguingly, the banner being flown near the banner of Andor is one for a lady named Arymilla, who wasn’t considered a serious claimant. Oh! The spy-glass that he’s using was a gift from Rand. That’s sweet. I actually do think Bashere makes for a good general for Rand, but he was also good as a co-general with Mat, from what we saw of the Sammael plan, so I do really mourn that he basically ended up being Mat’s replacement*. But as an individual character and for what he brings to the story, I appreciate him a lot. But, anyway, Caemlyn has been surrounded by this army, with all the main roads out of the city covered. It’s actually an interesting narrative reversal of what we should find in Egwene’s story, once we get there! Elayne is being besieged and Egwene is besieging.
* technically, Mat is replaced by the combination of Bashere + Min, I would say. Bashere for the general expertise and being a “man Rand would trust with his life” and Min for being the person who is there for Rand emotionally (and to carry a lot of knives on their person). Though as my reread has shown to me, Min is TERRIBLE at this job, with all her secrets from Rand and spilling Rand’s secrets to other people and her ominous visions of the future. Hilariously, Mat - who has an undeserved (at this point in the story) fandom reputation for having ‘abandoned’ Rand - was much better at being a friend, a confidant, and a comfort to him than Min has been shown to be. Maybe because he wasn’t just pretending to be Rand’s friend in order to try to angle his way into Rand’s bed. Maybe because Rand understood Mat well enough from their years of friendship that he rarely took Mat’s outer shell as seriously as most of the other characters do. Probably some of both. But Mat actually kept Rand’s secrets for him, provided comfort in the way that Rand told us he preferred at the time (sit quietly next to him as he processes and let him work through it), and, though he grumbled and complained, he always did his best to be there when the chips were down.
14. Bael is annoyed that the Legion of the Dragon and the Aiel forces are just being straight-up ignored by this army, and Bashere reminds him that Elayne doesn’t want them to interfere, which means Rand doesn’t want them to interfere. Which means that the heads of Rand’s armies here both know that he has feelings for Elayne. I kinda assume they must also know that he’s sleeping with Min but they don’t reference her at all, so I wonder if Min being openly Rand’s mistress is just straight-up a Cairhien-only affair and none of his people in Caemlyn know about it. And the Wise Ones, of course, know about Aviendha/Rand/Elayne due to the first-sister ceremony, given that Aviendha and Elayne openly talked about their feelings for Rand in the ceremony. Again, Min is left out of the matter here so... hmm. Let me double-check something in Winter’s Heart. Yeah, they don’t mention Min in their first-sister ceremony when talking about Rand. It really does feel like there are two entirely separate sets of relationships here: Rand/Elayne/Aviendha and Rand/Min.
15. Bashere thinks about how this sort of civil war, even a bloodless version, wouldn’t be possible in Saldaea, due to the Blight always being over their shoulder. Better a tyrant than civil war, is the way that thinking runs in Saldaea, because the country has to stay united in order to fend off Shadowspawn and the Blight to their north. We have seen inklings of this kind of thought appearing earlier in this prologue, with Ituralde reaching out to the Dragonsworn because the danger of the Seanchan is so great. Better unite with Dragonsworn, even if that costs his king his crown, than allow their country to be taken by the Seanchan.
16. Bashere comes back to his tent to learn that his wife, Deira, has just survived an attack. He notes that they’re considered odd among Saldaeans because they rarely shout at each other. Then why does Faile... moving on. Anyway, they tease each other a lot, mostly, and talk lightly of serious matters. But, yes, an assassination attempt on Bashere’s wife. Then he, mysteriously, tells Tumad to go to the “man who came to me yesterday” and tell him that Bashere agrees to whatever it was that he’d asked. Clearly something related to why someone tried to kill Deira. This is also a good section of the prologue.
17. Before I even read this next section, I am going to say that 30 pages given to one of Cadsuane’s companions is just TOO MANY. This is too many pages of a side character’s PoV! Anyway, Cadsuane “left a week ago” so Rand is currently still in Far Madding during this section of the prologue. Samitsu’s purpose in Cairhien is to keep an eye on the politics. Nothing in this is relevant at all until Loial and Karldin show up: we know that Dobraine is keeping an eye on Cairhien for Rand. I don’t care what Cadsuane’s flunky thinks about the situation. Dobraine is literally doing exactly the job that Rand set for him -- running the city and making sure that there’s enough support for Elayne that her claim should settle into place easily once she makes it. I approve of Rand choosing Stewards for the cities under his rule but this one should have been Berelain. She was doing a GOOD JOB and she got kicked out because Rand started to feel too much lust for her now that he had an on-site girlfriend, so he demoted and dismissed a good proxy ruler for being too pretty and replaced her with a man. I will never not be mad about this plot/character development. #BerelainDeservedBetter
18. Okay, Loial comes back into the story, along with Karldin. They went off to let the steddings know that the Dragon Reborn wanted all the Waygates possible to be sealed, because the Shadow is using them to move troops. The PoV character is still Samitsu, but one of Rand’s oathsworn Aes Sedai is also here to talk to them, Sashalle, who is Red Ajah and was one of the three sisters stilled by Rand at Dumai’s Wells and then healed by Damar Flinn. Sashalle sounds like a true believer in Rand now (potentially helped along by Verin’s Compulsion).
19. Loial and Karldin are looking for Rand, of course, and worrying over the tales about what happened to the Sun Palace. They’re able to get some reassurance from Samitsu and Sashalle on that regard -- Rand has left but he is not the one who destroyed the palace. We then find out from the servants that Lord Dobraine was murdered. The group of four investigates. He’s almost dead but there is a faint flicker of life, Normal Aes Sedai healing would kill him from the shock of it. She is able to heal him enough to close the worst of the wounds without the shock of healling killing him, but he will need to heal the rest of it the normal way. It looks like the people who tried to kill Dobraine were planning to steal something that he was keeping (probably for Rand?) and might have successfully stolen it, as Loial and Karldin wonder if there were more than two attackers (there are two bodies). We end on the news that a group of Sisters and Asha’man have entered the city, led by Logain.
It does sound like every single PoV in the prologue has been pre-cleansing. Honestly, most of these PoVs were pretty useful, though a couple seemed pointless and several could have been shorter. Maybe the prologues in The Slog got a bad rap and it’s really all Mat and Perrin dragging everything down.
20. Now we enter the book proper and we are in Mat’s PoV. As a reminder, these characters were established as strongly ANTI-SLAVERY/Anti-Seanchan in Winter’s Heart:
Mat (one of his main pieces of characterization in WH)
Setalle Anan (one of her only pieces of characterization in WH)
Juilin (mostly for the sake of his ladylove)
Noal (believes slavery is worse than death)
Teslyn, Joline & Edesina (for obvious reasons)
Thom (helps Beslan plot rebellion against the Seanchan)
Beslan (despises the Seanchan for invading his city). he’s not present but he’s also not dead, so I’m including him
These characters are strongly Oh Shit, Gotta Save My Own Skin/It’s All About Me:
Renna, Seta, & Bethamin (slaves if the Truth Were Known)
Egeanin (same but for her actions and not inherently who she is)
Domon (wants to be free to marry Egeanin)
These characters are strongly pro-slavery:
Tuon (dormant marath’damane)
And we have Selucia, who is a slave. Because Tuon was allowed to bring her slave along with her, which was our first hint on-page that the narrative planned to pull its punches with Tuon, back in WH. Why would you bring her slave along with her? Literally only to coddle her. Why are we coddling the slaver? The narrative doesn’t get into it enough in Winter’s Heart for it to stand out what a bizarre choice it is for Mat to give Tuon the indulgence of bringing along her slave during her kidnapping when he’s actively helping freed slaves escape at that very moment, but it really stands out once we get into Crossroads of Twilight.
Characters who didn’t express strong feelings about slavery in WH:
Olver (only cared about boobs the entire book; did not appear to have noticed that Ebou Dar was ever invaded at all)
Mat’s remaining Band members (mostly just yes-men at this point, sadly)
21. I am not going to go over the majority of Mat’s chapters, since this is a pointless side-quest, but I am keeping tracking of certain items -- every time Tuon refuses to use Mat’s name, every time she acts like a spoiled brat, every time she reminds us that she’s a slaver, and every time one of the actual good things from Winter’s Heart (or previous books) is undermined or reversed. Apart from that, things of note in the first four chapters:
It’s been six days since the night of the escape.
Mat has been thinking a lot about just taking a horse and riding away from the circus as quickly as he can manage it.
He’s depressed about how many Atha’an Miere were killed or recaptured by the Seanchan.
“Oh no one has cut off slaves’ feet for hundreds of years... well, not many people currently cut off their slaves’ feet and we frown at them for doing it. We don’t punish them but we kinda frown.” (paraphrased)
No alarm was raised for Tuon’s disappearance.
Mat still doesn’t want to be married.
Why didn’t Mat and ALUDRA pretend to be lovers instead of Mat and Egeanin? I guess Aludra was already with the circus but still. Didn’t... didn’t the circus see him coming to visit her before? Hadn’t he ALREADY made an arrangement with Luca?
Olver shows a single vague hint of concern that the Seanchan might catch them, so he is aware that they are not on the same side as the Seanchan, at least.
Utterly UTTERLY bizarre that Mat thinks of Selucia as a ‘lady’s maid’ when he knows damn well that she’s a slave. I guess we’re supposed to assume that he’s in denial that his future wife is a slave-owner who actively has a slave with her right now? But if that’s the case, then the narrative needs to have him confront that denial at some point.
Tylin is dead! 💖 It was a horrible and painful death! 💖💖 Best thing that’s happened in this book so far. I’m glad she was an exception to Jordan’s Can’t Kill A Woman thing.
Why does the book act like Joline hasn’t had a collar on her? She had to be collared in order to escape the city; this fact was repeated earlier in Mat’s recap. Sure, it wasn’t the same, since she knew (well, ‘knew’) that she would be let out again, but she HAS been collared and linked to a sul’dam. iirc, I remember that Nynaeve wanted to sick up the second she put on the bracelet on and wouldn’t let Elayne wear the collar even as part of a plan, even as a fake, back in TGH.
...does Mat not know about the sul’dam secret? It kinda seems like he doesn’t. Rand didn’t seem to know it back in TPoD either. The Wondergirls have known since book TWO, this should be common knowledge among all their allies! Lack of communication kills! I love the Wondergirls but they really only are good at communicating with each other and don’t tell anyone else shit.
Ah, we get fixed in time again: Joline wanted to talk to him because they can feel immense amounts of the Power at work and they’re certain it’s the Forsaken: the cleansing is happening. Mat isn’t worried though because after she mentions it, he gets a vision of Rand (and Nynaeve, but Mat only picks up on the fact that it’s Rand and the other person is just the figure of a woman) and he wonders if maybe it was RAND who made the dice stop this time, not Tuon. He doesn’t say anything to them about it being Rand tho.
I don’t care about Tuon’s sob story. We heard her backstory in Winter’s Heart and that was fine, but now I only care about the person she currently is, not the child that she was once upon a time. Every one of the damane was also just a little girl, once upon a time, but none of them get a chapter expounding on their backstories and trying to get us to see them as ~innocent little girls~. I think Alivia got, like, two sentences.
22. And we’re back with Perrin’s subplot that shouldn’t exist because the Shaido should not still be a problem. Five chapters. Things of note:
We start with Perrin dreaming of being a wolf. I do like when we get wolf-related things. Sadly, the wolves are of no use to Perrin when he’s awake. why is perrin trapped in a subplot where his wolf-friends are useless? (why is mat stuck in a subplot where he has the shittiest luck in the world?)
Perrin thinks about how he is absolutely willing to abandon Rand and the Last Battle if it comes now, because he has a greater duty. Oh, I guess he IS the left hand who strays after all, making Mat the right hand who falters. That kinda makes sense, since Mat has just been chilling in the circus next to the city and not ACTUALLY escaping despite that being his entire goal last book.
Faile has been gone for 22 days.
Perrin has finally figured out that Masema is trying to avoid returning to Rand for as long as possible.
Perrin finds the tracks of a pack of Darkhounds and follows it until he detemines that it went off hunting in another direction.
Berelain discreetly gives Perrin proof that Masema is dealing directly with the Seanchan -- High Lady Suroth (Darkfriend).
Why doesn’t Perrin immediately take this to Rand, showing him that there’s no point in trying to take in Masema under his wing? He doesn’t even have to break off his search, just let one of the Asha’man go. But that would require thinking about something other than Faile, so it’s out, of course.
The Shaido have taken an entire TOWN. Ridiculous. They shouldn’t even still be around. Ten thousand Shaido? Ridiculous.
Berelain mentioned that Neald or Grady could fetch more jewels from Mayene for them to sell to potentially buy back their people from the Shaido. Or. Here’s a thought. Have them try to find out where Rand is? Like, they wouldn’t actually be able to find him right now given where we are in the story but they should at least TRY. And if they tried and failed, at least that would be an excuse for this plotline to continue.
We find out that Darkhounds can eat wolves’ souls. That’s creepy. I’d like more wolf-lore and less... any of the rest of this.
Elyas was there during the Blood Snow, apparently. I assume as a Warder?
While Perrin is studying the town where Faile is being held captive, he has a whirlwind of colors in his head and he doesn’t just see Rand but also Nynaeve. It’s not about Faile so he forces himself not to think about it. He does let the people with him know that the big surge of saidin & saidar was Rand.
note: I think both Mat and Perrin made the right call here when it comes to whether or not they talk about this being Rand’s work -- Mat is among near-strangers; he shouldn’t tell them that Rand is doing something important; Perrin is among Rand’s allies; reassuring them is a good thing. But Mat also knows how to keep his mouth shut, so there’s that, too.
New things I’m keeping track of for this book! Now, Tuon is only in Chapter 3 of Mat’s section here, a total of 14 pages.
Tuon refuses to use Mat’s name, calling him ‘Toy’ instead:
Chapter 3: 13 times
Tuon acts like a spoiled brat:
she refuses to use Mat’s name
throws pottery at Mat because she’s annoyed at him
she’s jealous of another woman wanting to have a conversation with Mat
Tuon reminds us she’s a slaver:
she refuses to use Mat’s name
talks about turning Mat into one of her slaves (da’covale), possibly a cupbearer
she gives Mat a “hard rap” on the head to chastise him over being “superstitious”. I guess we can also add her to the list of women who are violent to their ‘romantic’ partners. Not a surprise from her, of course. We know that she’s ordered her slaves beaten before.
Something from Winter’s Heart (or previous) is undermined (I’m kinda using this section to rant about the things that are pissing me off; so skip if it doesn’t appeal):
last book, Noal was very anti-slavery and said it was a fate worse than death. This book, he tells Egeanin that he’s sure her slave misses her too (and Mat thinks he sounds sincere), and that he’s seen worse in his life than damane and da’covale.
most of the Windfinders that Mat helped free were killed or recaptured
previously anti-slavery & anti-Seanchan Setalle Anan is buddying up with a slaver and helping her throw pottery at Mat and being AMUSED at Mat getting a temper tantrum thrown at him by a slaver who has invaded her home and whose forces she is currently attempting to escape. She’s acting like she needs to protect Tuon from Mat, because she apparently has forgotten everything that happened LAST WEEK. Why is Anan coddling Tuon like she’s another one of Tuon’s slaves?
instead of having sympathy for the Aes Sedai, like he did last book (which was a week ago!), Mat is now forcing them to share a wagon with the sul’dam to “keep them out of his hair”. He is forcing women who were SLAVES to share a wagon with former SLAVE KEEPERS.  Teslyn is being forced to share a wagon with the woman who ordered her punishments & trainings redoubled in an attempt to crush her spirit! WTF! (That’s Bethamin btw)
The vast majority of the progress that Egeanin had made seems to have vanished, unfortunately. Tuon’s very existence made her remember that she’s Seanchan to the bones, I suppose. Shame. Does she find her backbone again later on? I hope so. She was already kinda on thin ice for me in Winter’s Heart, tbh, finding out that she gave up something dangerous to Rand to the Seanchan (and someone that the readers know is a Darkfriend) in order to save her own skin. Egeanin may vaguely believe the damane are people now but the only person she really cares about at this point is Egeanin, it feels like.
The Mat-Tylin ‘romance’ gets buffed up in retrospect after we find out that she’s dead. It’s honestly (and unfortunately) easy to see why someone reading Mat’s storyline with a casual eye (especially a privileged man who isn’t as aware of how rape trauma can present) would come out of CoT thinking “oh yeah, Mat genuinely liked Tylin and clearly everything in ACoS & WH was just a sexy game” because that is how the narrative is currently treating that storyline. There’s a single line that alludes to the true horror that we saw in their relationship (Mat thinking about how he’d wanted to get away from her) but the rest is forcing us to watch Mat mourn her and feel guilty about ‘getting’ her killed and Tuon praising Mat for his loyalty to his rapist (while also trying to encourage him to move on and transfer his loyalty to her).
Mat briefly considers allowing the sul’dam to abuse the Aes Sedai because he’s finding them annoying right now.
The three sul’dam themselves also seem profoundly worse as characters this book than in Winter’s Heart -- very certain of their superiority to the Aes Sedai who are marath’damane and not a hint of the concern and worry and doubt that we saw last book about the fact that they are all capable of being held by the a’dam themselves. Maybe that’s because this is all from Mat’s PoV but, again, that’s on Jordan for deciding to craft his narrative in a way that prioritizes the slavers over everyone else. Last book, whenever we went into the Seanchan PoV, it highlighted the dysfunction in the empire, but this book... we get a whole fawning chapter about how Tuon's horrible personality and pro-slavery attitude is forgivable because she was a tragic little girl once upon a time. Again, I ask, what on earth happened to Jordan in between writing Winter’s Heart and Crossroads of Twilight that made him abandon was seemed a very clear and obvious plot-thread set-up about questioning the empire and instead meander onto... this mess of a plotline?
Mat also seems less insightful in this book so far? In Winter’s Heart, he figured out on his own that the Return was a settler invasion that would be much more difficult to dislodge than a normal invasion, but here he has to have Egeanin explain it to him all over again like he’s a child. Why not just have Mat think about it in his internal narration? Honestly, I kinda feel like most of the things people hate about Sanderson’s Mat are already beginning to be on display with Jordan’s CoT Mat. Qualities it feels like Mat somehow lost between WH & CoT: insightfulness, empathy, independence. And he’s also definitely continuing to get more sexist as well. It’s been a week.
People that Mat thinks about:
Rand x3
Perrin x1
Unnecessary scenes:
young Sitters ‘mystery’: 1 (5 pages)
too many random PoVs: 1 (5 pages), 1 (6 pages), 1 (13 pages)
Mat’s side quest (tuon): 4 (91 pages)
Perrin’s side quest (shaido): 5 (123 pages)
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highladyluck · 1 year
Note
Mat: *is hot*
Tuon: is this an omen 🧐
If you want him it badly enough, everything can be an omen!
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