#Literally El's whole arc was the same thing

[kedreeva]

Eddie Munson's message as a character should never have been that he needed to stop running and fight to be a hero. It should have been that heroism can look a lot of different ways. It should have been you don't have to be a hero to have worth.

#eddie munson #stranger things #yes I am still mad #no I will not be stopping soon #but you're going to get meta tomorrow about something else #no it will not make anything better #yes it will make you mad too hopefully #also not for nothing but #Literally El's whole arc was the same thing #they tried to play it like it wasn't #but after spending a frankly bullshit amount of time #showing us how she was floundering without her powers #they dropped Mike going you're a superhero and El going Not Anymore #and then she has to get her powers back to save everyone #which like yeah okay she's literally the only one who can do that #but listen‚ look me in my eyes #she really could have used someone like eddie #to teach her that she doesn't need to be a hero to have worth #she's not listening to anyone else because they've all experienced her with superpowers #But Eddie didn't even see her defeat vecna at all #idk I'm just. the possibilities!!!!! the character development!!! #they could have had narrative parallels!!! #ugh

[kneeanderthal]

the awful balancing of story lines in season 4 always makes me tweak out a bit

#love most of them (not st*ncy...) but even if i did love all of them i cant because there is so much nothing #like so so so much screen time on pointless and unnecessary new arcs and then completely sidelining the good emotional arcs #and continuing to sideline the actaul main characters (lucas will jonathon mike etc) in favour of the fan favourites (st*ve) #UEGRH #idk everytime i watch s4 and i watch it alot because im unhealthily obsessed with this show im like eh.. #because maxs and wills and lucas and even el and mikes relo drama is more emotionally enticing #then the same repeated dance of will they wont they (st*ncy) and the weird new personalites from s3 (joyce and hopper) #when i first watched it ESPECIALLY volume 2 i was trying hard to give a shit about the storylines that took literal hours hours to convey #and i dont hate the new characters but there are so so so many characters and not enough episodes for them to make sense #but also not take the spotlighr #this doesnt make much sense but basically maxs arc > wills arc > everyone else because theres so much nothing #the great stuff gets lost (els whole arc is so drawn out it overshadows itself) #i could literally go on for days about everything #but ill stop now #because these are the tags #and the post speaks enough for itself #stranger things #stranger things s4 #stranger things vol 1 #stranger things volume 2 #byler #< target audience #lucas sinclair #< also target audience because his storyline was so so so overshadowed by st*ve and all the other bullshit

[mothellie]

I think the Duffer Brothers' history with racism in their show goes a lot deeper than a lot of people realize.

Lucas as a character has three distinct B plot stories that get assigned to him: being a minor antagonist to Eleven in season one, being a good friend to the rest of the Party, and being in love with his girlfriend. While Mike's plot is directly centered around two of the most pivotal characters of the show, Dustin is given two different role model characters that shape his arc and is overall the genius that helps the rest of the cast get out of several difficult situations, Will still being connected to the Upside Down after his disappearance in 1983 and that playing into several major plots, Max having a multitude of centric storylines especially in season four and Eleven literally being THE main character- Lucas is only ever given plots that help serve and uplift the other (white) characters. Unless you count him... playing basketball and being friends with Jason. I guess?

Erica is similar to Lucas, but to a much larger degree. I'd like you reading this to think of any single Erica standalone plot in the show that has nothing to do with/does not predominantly or solely benefit the white characters around her. I'll wait.

The Sinclair parents are only touched on in brief sections for the sake of filling the episodes, only ever playing a more major role in Season Four. If you could call it that. I'm sure most of you couldn't even tell me their names off of the top of your heads. (It's Charles and Sue, by the way.)

Argyle was the first somewhat major character of color to be introduced to the show after Erica played her part in season three. I could say similar things about his role in the season overall that I can about Lucas and Erica. Except they set him up to play a bigger role in the next season at the end of season four, going as far as to show him in Hawkins and have Jancy verbally allude to him sticking around, only for the show heads to ghost Eduardo Franco and let him find out he wasn't being brought back through an official social media cast photo.

Kali was a former subject from the same lab El came from, having escaped and subsequently began to lead a vigilante life of enacting revenge on those who played a hand in her suffering. She was the first subject El ever met after leaving the lab, shown to be incredibly powerful and strong-willed. Her and El had an immediate connection, calling themselves sisters right after meeting. But after El was finished with her self-discovery period on the S.S. Kali Gang for one (1) often-forgotten and poorly-written episode, Kali was quite literally abandoned both in spirit and on screen, never to be seen or even mentioned again.

All other characters of color are either killed violently (Patrick), have like ten minutes of screentime total (Jeff and Calvin Powell), or are just straight up background only and may not even have names.

They can dedicate an entire section of season four's plot to Suzie's family, but not to genuine character development for Erica or for Kali to return. They can make room for a whole pointless predatory plot between Billy and Karen, but not to give a more important role to the Sinclair parents. They have room to include a whole plot about El getting bullied in school, but not for Lucas to have a more meaningful story outside of his white friends and girlfriend. They can platform three known white zionists while Palestine currently undergoes a gruesome genocide even as I type this, but they don't have room for Argyle in season five (or even the decency to give Eduardo a fucking phone call).

Not only do the Duffers constantly write themselves into holes because they keep adding unnecessary fodder to the plot, and refuse to kill ANY of their main characters in favor of just creating new characters for the sake of killing them off in mediocre ways despite the fact that they're trying to fit 20+ B plots into 8-9 40-50 minute episodes per season and wondering why half their show doesn't make sense- The time they DO dedicate to character-specific B plots and character arc progression visibly favor the white characters.

If I watch S5, and that's a huge if, I will be sailing the high seas. Between all of this, the fact that they filmed part of season four in an old Nazi prison and tried to turn it into a fucking AirBNB, and the fact that at least four people who play major roles in the show actively support the current genocide of Palestine- I won't be giving them (or Netflix for that matter) another cent of my money.

While you're here, please do your completely free daily click to send aid to Palestine, and here's a list of other resources for how to help more directly.

#cassie talks #stranger things #free palestine #lucas sinclair #erica sinclair #charles sinclair #sue sinclair #argyle stranger things #kali prasad #patrick mckinney #jeff stranger things #calvin powell #anyway excuse me im gonna go put these characters in an ungodly amount of fics #it's what they deserve

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

If Mike really loved El romantically, they wouldn’t have dragged out a weird plot of not being able to say ILY for two seasons. One season? Sure. I can let Season 3 slide somewhat if one discounts all the queer longing that takes place and the odd finale kiss. You could interpret S3 as an awkward kid building up the courage to say the L word.

But two seasons? Nah. If the first interpretation were true, things would’ve been resolved when El confesses that she loves him back at the end of S3. But things were not resolved? And the show goes out of its way to emphasize that Mike isn’t even writing “I love you” in his letters? And they have a big, explosive fight about it… and he still can’t say it? Nah Michael, I diagnose you with homosexuality.

“But saying I love you is scary and a big deal and yada yada…” Okay sure. Saying ILY is a big deal. But middle school kids still say it pretty casually. And they certainly at least write it. It’s not uncommon for a kid to drop the “L” bomb to someone they’ve only been dating for a short period of time, only to break up the next day. Things are fluid and chaotic and unpredictable and messy. In Romeo and Juliet, Romeo thought he was in love with Rosaline until seeing Juliet, and he immediately changed his mind.

But even if we just assume it’s harder for Mike to say ILY to El because Mlvn is serious and more meaningful than a fleeting crush, that still doesn’t let Mike off the hook. If Mlvn really is as soulmate-coded as Mlievens believe, when have you ever heard of a soulmate-coded relationship in media where the writers went out of their way to show that saying ILY was like pulling teeth? Imagine if there was a whole section of Titanic where Jack struggled with saying ILY to Rose? Imagine Leia got into a fight with Han because he couldn’t write “love” in his romantic letters, and Han was all like, “I care for you so much, Leia.”Imagine Katara pulled out the receipts, and Aang was like, “Okay, okay. Katara, you’re being ridiculous. Like what is this?”

That would be absurd. And you’d either demand an explanation or stop rooting for them. It’s not that ILY isn’t often a big deal in stories. It’s that when it’s emphasized in a weird way and dragged out for two seasons, you have to side-eye it. It’s one thing when the big ILY is the logical and natural culmination of an arc, whether at the end of a season or the end of a series. That makes sense. It’s another thing entirely when someone is literally begging you to say it, and you still can’t say it. And then when you finally do say it, it’s in the penultimate season, and it’s extremely anticlimactic. And everyone has to emphasize how you said it 9 times to cope/compensate.

If Mlvn was meant to be endgame, and Mike really loved El romantically, they would’ve just… shown Mike and El being in love with each other. There wouldn’t be any doubt. None of the other couples, other than Stancy, have ever gone through this weird kind of ritual where words are emphasized over actions. No one doubts that Lumax, Jopper, and Duzie are in love with each other. Jancy is a little more complicated cause they were separated throughout S4 and doubts were raised, but even so, it’s nowhere near the odd situation with Milkvan. Jancy, Lumax, Jopper, and Duzie have all shown they love each other through their actions. They don’t rely on big gestures or words to prove it. In fact, Lucas even specifically says to Max, “I don’t want a letter.”

All I’m saying is, if Mlvn is treated with a considerable lack of seriousness post Season 2, if the show keeps them in a weird Groundhog Day plot of constant fights and lies and not being on the same page, and if it takes a third party with vested romantic interest in the situation for Mike to finally monologue a measly ILY to his girlfriend, then maybe there’s a reason for this? 🤔

#byler #mike wheeler #will byers #mike wheeler i know what you are #stranger things #Byler endgame #el hopper

[lordystrange]

10 best byler proofs by me

10. The cast, especially David (who knows the ending) and Finn (who might know something), are always so happy talking about Byler. They wouldn’t be if Will ended up dying alone as a sad gay. Also no one likes milkvan except maybe Millie unless she’s acting… Caleb even said ”Lucas and Max’s love is real unlike Milkvan’s”.

9. Mike has been queercoded throughout the whole series. Especially with queer colors, he spent s4 dressed as a gay pride flag. Also bi and pan colors are associated with him. Also Ted’s ”our son with a girl?” and everything Eddie said about forced conformity etc

8. Byler parallelling other romantic ships like Jancy, Jopper and Lumax. I’m not listing examples because there are SO MANY! (Also Milkvan parallelling all the platonic/dead ships)

7. Mileven being bones. We have nothing that shows their actual, deep love they’re ”supposed to have”. We don’t know what Mike loves about El and what El loves about Mike. We don’t know what makes them a compatible match romantically. We only know things that don’t make them compatible: El feeling the need to lie to Mike, Mike feeling embarrassed of his nerdy self with El, El feeling unloved by Mike, Mike feeling inferior to El…

6. The desert scenes. The triple take ofc, but also the car roof top convo with Will (jancy parallell). Will is talking about how it’s scary to say how you really feel because what if they don’t like the truth. And Mike NODS. If the truth was that he loved El exactly like El wanted, El would like that truth. So what is the truth Mike is worried that El doesn’t like…?

5. Mike’s monologue. He had to be pushed by Will to open his mouth. He lied about him loving her at first sight. He copied the t-shirt part from Eddie. He kept saying she’s his superhero which El doesn’t wanna be. He didn’t include anything personal about El and their relationship after the t-shirt thing… Also El didn’t seem to like what she heard and their love didn’t save the world. And they didn’t even talk after it. And while filming it they didn’t focus on just the couple (like they did with byler in s2 shed scene) and they let Finn improvise as if it wasn’t that important (as important as the van scene…)

4. Mike would be so poorly written if he wasn’t into Will and I don’t think the Duffers would just ignore his character. Also all the lip glances and heart eyes wouldn’t make sense.

3. Byler/Milkvan contrast. When Will was gone and they found his ”body”, Mike heard Will breathing in a radio channel and believed he was alive. He didn’t rest for a second, he did everything he could to find him. When he thought El was dead, he didn’t go looking for her, even tho a couple times he actually saw her. Also in s3 when Milkvan had a fight, Max said Mike will be crawling back to her begging for forgiveness in no time. Instead Mike laid on a sofa and ate and complained. When Byler had a fight… well we all know what Mike did then.

2. Mike and Will’s relationship has always been different from other friendships. They’ve said it themselves (”pls don’t tell the others, they wouldn’t understand”, ”Hawkins is not the same without you”, ”you make her me feel better for being different”). Also their scenes together have always been a big deal (van scene took an entire day to film, crazy together was written before s1 was even filmed) and they are shot in a really romantic way (music, lighting…)

1. In the beginning of s3, Will said to Joyce that he’s not gonna fall in love. That made his arc about romance. We know now that he already fell in love, but he doesn’t believe it’s requited. If s5 goes from ”i don’t think he loves me back” to ”he doesn’t love me back” we get literally nowhere and the entire storyline (since s1) would be useless and waste of time and money. They wouldn’t make Will suffer 4 seasons and then suffer some more. So believe me when I say it goes ”I don’t think he loves me back” to ”He does love me back!”

I wish you all a very merry byler endgame in s5! 💚

#byler #byler proof #byler evidence #byler s5 #stranger things #van scene #will byers #mike wheeler #mike x will #miwi #byler analysis #stranger things analysis #byler endgame #byler canon #anti milkvan #anti m*leven #anti midleven #mike wheeler i know what you are #gay mike wheeler #bi mike wheeler #unlabeled mike wheeler

[starbylers]

Can we talk about how Mike ‘not being able to say he loves El because he’s scared she won’t need him one day’ makes no sense when you consider that for Mike this conflict spans two whole seasons, and there needs to be a consistent character motivation throughout.

Mike struggling to tell El he loves her has been, on the surface, his main conflict since s3.

In season 3, after blurting out he loves El, Mike brings it up again at the store. He tries desperately to get his point across, to make El understand ('I've never felt like this before', 'blank makes you crazy, like the word'). But no-one can deny that in this scene Mike is doing everything he can to avoid actually saying love. Now, what is the Mlvn excuse for this again? 'He's not good at expressing his emotions’. That's their running narrative post s3. (Let's ignore how that's not even canonically true of Mike's character and continue).

We come to season 4, and Mike is still chronically unable to use the word love, even when speaking about El and not to her. (Like this is clearly a deeply ingrained thing but I digress). Pre vol. 2, the Mlvn excuses are still related to Mike basically being emotionally unintelligent (his parents, his age, blah blah). But when Mike himself finally reveals the big reason, it's...'I didn't want to tell you I loved you because I was scared you won't need me one day'? Okay. Theoretically, out of context, that could make sense. So this becomes the new Mlvn narrative.

Here's the problem: both of these things cannot be the root cause of the same issue. It's one or the other: either he can’t say he loves her because he’s bad at expressing feelings, or he’s scared El one day not needing him would hurt more. This two-season dilemma is part of one series-long character arc for Mike. Mike in s4 is the same person with the same struggles as Mike in s3. Whatever his motivation for avoiding it in s3 (which was never addressed, it’s not like we got closure for that and then they just came up with a new reason he can’t say it) must logically be consistent continuing into s4.

Can anyone seriously tell me that Mike, here in this scene, was struggling to say the word 'love' because he was 'scared one day El wouldn't need him':

No. Of course not. He was specifically avoiding the word, and the most plausible explanation for his aversion (if we're ignoring Byler) is that Mike's just a kid and love is a big scary word. Bad at emotions etc. Which is why Mlvns and GA subscribed to that narrative, it seems obvious. But it cannot be right because Mike reveals the 'true reason' in 4x09. This is the canon explanation, finally—he's been scared she eventually won't need him. Except, that cannot be right either, because that reasoning does not align with his obvious (again, ignoring Byler) s3 motivation (love being daunting for a young teen) for the exact same behaviour. Like he literally uses the exact same pattern of avoidant wording from s3 in s4 (‘I care for you so much') and like I’ve said this is all meant to be one singular, overarching conflict.

If the initial 'bad at feelings' reading of Mike was correct, you'd expect the monologue to be more along the lines of 'I find it really difficult to express myself but I do truly love you, so this is me being vulnerable and brave'. Personally, I would've somewhat bought that. As a Byler I would've been like okay, it's kind of boring cliché storytelling but I'll admit defeat. But that’s not what happens. Basically what I’m getting at is:

Neither of these explanations can account for Mike’s inability to tell El he loves her in both seasons, so then by the logic of Mike having consistent motivations, neither can be true.

Which leads to the conclusion that there must be a different, all-encompassing, underlying cause for his heavy avoidance. Something that connects all the dots. I wonder what that could possibly be.

#byler #anti mileven #also I do believe that Mike is scared of El not needing him #but his reason for this fear is rooted in unhealthy codependency and his insecurities not because he’s just so in love

[robynrocksforbrains]

What do you think about the whole Mike was only so protective of Will in S2 because El was gone thing? Do you think he’s going to ignore Will again in S5 and be super focused on El? I’ve seen recent discourse about this and it’s making me sad.

Anon, full disclosure I haven't seen this discourse recently. But I'm gonna take your word for it and tell you what I think. This is gonna be kinda long because I am incapable of being normal.

I think anyone who thinks that this is the case has a very very poor understanding of Mike. And also a poor understanding of literally the entirety of s2 and s4.

Mike cares about Will, and he cares about El. It's possible for him to care about both of them at the same time. The only reason he has a hard time balancing his relationship with both of them is because he's denying the true nature of his feelings for both of them. With El, he's trying to convince himself that his platonic feelings are romantic. With Will, he's trying to convince himself that his romantic feelings are platonic. It is my belief that he is fully aware of his romantic feelings for Will, and his lack thereof for El. But being aware of something and accepting something are two different things. However, by the end of s4 I think it's clear he's headed in the direction of acceptance.

So, about s2:

Mike is protective of Will because he's protective of Will. Simple as that. His fierce protectiveness of Will is established in s1.

We see it when Hopper is first questioning the boys about the last time they saw Will. Mike is insistent that he wants to be there. He doesn't just wanna help by answering questions, he wants to be out there actively searching.

We see it when he defends Will against the comments Nancy and Ted make about him at the dinner table. "All because Mike's friend got lost in the woods" "oh so this is Will's fault?" // "See what happens?" "What happens when what?"

We see it when he is the one to plan to go out to where Will's bike was found and search the woods.

We see it when he confronts Troy after the assembly and pushes him down

Mike being protective of Will in s2 is just a continuation of an already established trait. We just didn't see it in the same way in s1 because Will wasn't there. In s1 it was almost like Mike was being protective of an idea, but in s2 he's being protective of a real and tangible thing. He's not just protecting the belief and hope that Will is still out there, he's protecting WILL.

And that isn't because El is gone, his protectiveness of Will persisted throughout s1. El was there and he was still protective of Will. So El's absence cannot be a cause of his protectiveness of Will. However, the intensity of it was likely influenced by the events of the previous year, which would include watching El "die". But his behavior regarding Will definitely has more to do with what happened to Will than with what happened to El.

I think that if El was present in s2, he still would've been just as protective of Will. Because that's just who he is.

Now, about s5:

He's not going to ignore Will in favor of El. Anyone who thinks that definitely just blatantly ignored his entire s4 arc.

I mean, Mike and Will's s4 arcs were almost entirely dedicated to fixing the damage that s3 did to their relationship. Mike apologizes to Will for how he acted since he got to Lenora, but there's also a sense that he's apologizing for more than that. He says "this last year". He's not mentioning anything specific, but we know what happened. Will knows what happened. And although it still should be, and likely will be, explicitly addressed, this is a start.

I kinda think that the "cool" "cool" scene is when Mike starts to prove to the audience that he's worth Will's love. Because if s3 didn't happen, I don't think there would be doubts. If s2 Mike was also s3 Mike, I don't think anyone would be saying "Will deserves better". But s3 did happen. I love Mike, but he did mess up. He did treat Will like shit. And that should be acknowledged by the characters and by the plot. So when Mike apologizes for his behavior, and subtly addresses s3, and then Will decides that it's worth it to bring his painting - which is a declaration of love - it's a confirmation that this was a turning point for Mike. This isn't a fluke. Mike wants to be better, and he's trying to be better, and that's going to continue for the rest of the season, and it will carry into s5. This conversation, which marks a real change for Mike, includes the line "I have no idea what's gonna happen next. But whatever it is, I think it'll be easier if we're together. A team. Friends. Best friends." And then Will makes the decision to bring what is a plot device for byler's development specifically. Like it's pretty clear what behavior the plot is rewarding.

"I think maybe I was worrying too much about El... And I don't know maybe I feel like I lost you or something" is worth mentioning here because not only is this Mike explicitly stating that his s3 behavior was a deviation from the norm for him, but also the plot rewards this confession. It rewards Mike's vulnerability (although tentative) in this moment. Mike's vulnerability is returned tenfold in the van scene. And since we know Mike's vulnerability was rewarded, it only makes sense for the same to be true for Will's. The painting is the catalyst, Will's vulnerability (although veiled) has to be rewarded by the plot.

And then again, in their last scene together, Mike reaffirms that they're a team. Yeah, you can say that when he says "we will" he's referring to everyone involved. But he says this while firmly grasping Will's shoulder. He wants Will to know he's here, and he's not going anywhere. Yes, it's about everyone, but underneath that there's a sort of desperation for Will to believe him. He's determined to live up to what he said in Dear Billy. He wants them to be a team. So when he says "we" he means everyone involved, but there's an unspoken "you and me".

AND THEN AGAIN, in the final shot, they're together. But more than that, Mike makes a CHOICE to stay by Will's side. He's there because he wants to be with Will. Nothing is stopping him from walking to stand by El's side. But he doesn't do that. He stays with Will because he told Will they were a team and he meant it. I could go on and on about what this means from a storytelling perspective. About how there is obvious thought put into using this to tell the audience what to expect. But from a character perspective, thinking of Mike as a real human with his own thoughts and motivations, it's clear what he's thinking in this moment. They're facing something terrifying, and he knows exactly where he wants to be while he faces it, and that's by Will's side. This scene is undoubtedly foreshadowing for s5, and it's very reasonable to conclude that it means his priority will be Will.

TL;DR Mike was protective of Will in s2 because that's just what is natural for him. And his priority in s5 is going to be Will, because that's what s4 very deliberately set up.

#this is a very summarized version of my thoughts on this specific topic #i meant it when i said i am incapable of being normal #i really could go on and on and on #but i wont #byler #byler endgame #mike wheeler #will byers

[apatheticlexicographer]

i promise i'm not insane, i promise okay, but-

the fact that el is lying in her letters to mike to make herself seem more appealing is one of the verrrrry first things they set up in the whole season. that she is lying is an unquestionable fact, even if you're GA. it's so canon it's a key plotpoint in three characters' arcs.

but mike??? we don't know what he was writing in his letters to her, only that he signed them all "from, mike." but considering how he reacted to the revalation that she had been lying, i don't think he was also actively lying to her. he wouldn't have any real reason to anyway; el already knows firsthand what his life is like.

so el is shown to be lying about nearly everything she says in her letters. el is shown to be, specifically, telling mike the complete opposite of the truth and to be doing her best to keep those lies up even in person. el is the one signing her letters "love, el."

another interesting detail about el's lies is the fact that they aren't just minor alterations of the truth. she's failing math, but rather than telling mike she's better at something else she says it's her favourite. she's relentlessly bullied and ostracized, rather than saying she's met a couple of friends she says she has a lot. she's bullied by ANGELA, in particular, but in the world she creates in her letters to mike angela is a close friend!!! it's not just an escapist fantasy, it's a complete inversion of the truth. flipping it upside down.

mike isn't shown to be lying to her at all in his letters. in fact, the only thing he's indisputably confirmed to lie to her about in this season, so canonically that it's the basis of a whole scene, is that he's been saying he loves her. mike is the one signing his letters "from, mike."

el only tells mike she loves him through the lens of her letters and their fabricated dreamworld tailored to seem as appealing as possible. mike only tells her he loves her through the lens of will's painting and nameswapped confession.

the things el says in the voiceover of her letter go against the truth of the footage of her lenora life being shown onscreen at the same time. mike's claim that he loved her from the moment he saw her goes against the truth of the flashback that plays, of a scene where he was searching for will but stumbled across el instead.

'The First I love You' and 'The First Lie'. the correlation is so strong it seeps into the fucking soundtrack.

it can't even be brushed off as subtext!!! not when the tangled relationships between mike and el and love and lies were the entire focus of their relationship this season!!! denying the evidence would mean quite literally denying that the plot of the show is canon!!!

el lies about her life and feelings to seem more desirable. she signs every letter with "love, el."

mike lies about how he's proven he loves her in the past. when he tries to enforce the fact that he loves her in the present, he focuses on the past, trying to impress on her that "and i knew, right then and there, in that moment, that i loved you."

el wants to live a perfect, happy life, opposite to what she goes through in the real world. a life where she goes to parties at the roller rink. a life where her grades are good. a life where she's best friends with her popular bullies. a life where she has a boyfriend, and they're in love. she does whatever she can to maintain that fantasy, even trying to rope angela into it, but mike doesn't keep it up on his part. when he comes to visit, the dream world she's built is shattered. mike still can't say he loves her to her face, and she can't keep pretending. she signs her note to him "from, el."

mike has always been the guy with the plan. he knows love makes el's powers stronger. he's the leader, he's the heart, and when things go bad the only way they can still beat vecna is if el truly believes she's loved. she confronted him with how he's failed at proving it in the past, so he does her one better. he tells el he's loved her since the very beginning. it doesn't matter how he's failed to show it, because it's been true all along.

it's too late. the fantasy is broken, and el is done lying. max still dies, the gates still open, and days after his grand confession, el will barely look at him.

boyfriends lie, but friends don't.

#yeah idfk what happened either babes #i'm loopy AF rn so maybe this makes no sense #definitely too rambley but idc #byler #byler theory #byler proof #byler analysis #byler meta #stranger things meta #stranger things analysis #stranger things theory #anti mileven #mike wheeler #el hopper

[hawkinsunderground]

every time i start to feel like i'm deluding myself about byler happening, i give myself a reality check using the classic 'if they were all straight' scenario, and then i stop doubting. if everything remained the same--same relationships, same dynamics with friends--with the only difference in the show being that Will was a girl, it's almost painfully obvious. And because all a m/f couple has to do is be in the vicinity of each other to get shipped, byler probably would have been more popular even in the earlier seasons.

Mike spending an entire season right by his girl best friend's side, desperate to help and fighting to stay near her as she slowly gets possessed. Then at the end of it all he gives her a whole speech crying and saying that choosing to be friends with her was the best thing he's ever done? I guarantee you even with milkvan developing a bunch of people would have jumped on the byler train, and more others would be thinking that Mike and Willow or whatever would eventually get together later on, with warring opinions on who the better ship is.

Mike neglecting his girl best friend who is now hinted to have a crush on him in s3 while trying to get over being kidnapped and everything she went through? Spending all his time with Eleven even though byler had just been so close the season prior. There's no way at least some ppl wouldn't be thinking romance. The whole 'Mike's probably repressing his feelings and pushing Will away because he's scared' idea that a lot of bylers believe suddenly wouldn't be a reach anymore if it was a straight pairing.

Sectioning the two of them off to have their little cali romance all the while hinting at serious relationship troubles and conflicting character arcs for Mike and Eleven. Meanwhile the shrouded love confession from 'Willow', the obvious flirting. You can't look me in the eyes and tell me that people wouldn't be losing their shit during the entire apology scene if Will was a girl. The flirty smiles, the "I didn't say it." "You didn't have to.", the intimacy of his apology to 'Willow' in comparison to the apology from Mike to Lucas in s1. Along with all of the other scenes where Mike is clearly different with 'Willow' compared to the rest of his friends, he's always near her, etc.

Atp I feel like the general consensus would be that they're setting up a Melvin breakup and Byler endgame. Mike putting his hand on Willow's shoulder and promising they'll get through this together while literally showing Midleven crashing and burning in the same scene? In one of the final scenes? You're gonna tell me that people wouldn't be thinking along the lines of romance, with the love triangle pointing in byler's favor?

Mike's 'love' confession would come across as the lie that it was and a lot of people would probably be saying that Mike is not confronting his true feelings. They would be drawing the same comaprisons we are--that it didn't even work and the gates opened, that his (girl) best friend had to tell him and guide him to confess to Eleven, with them finally as close as they were around s2 again and Melvin not even really getting back together, with clear issues still present in the finale. The direction they are going to take things in s5 would become obvious without the straight goggles blinding people to some of the most obvious character and relationship arcs that have been done a million times.

The only difference would be the lack of struggle due to homophobia and would probably be more centered on Mike's inability to confront his feelings due to a fear of messing things up between himself and Will, along with losing el because he doesn't love her the way she wants him to, keeping to the core of his character in either scenario

You're gonna tell me that if people saw this and it was mike's girl best friend sitting next to him, they wouldn't be jumping at a romance arc between the two of them?

or his reaction to them being friends again, a smile and voice we've never seen used with any other character, noticably different?

the physical proximity, the fact that they seem equally flirtatious and affected by the other despite Will being the only one with confirmed feelings atp it's too obvious--if it were a girl sitting next to mike people would definitely be drawing some conclusions Anyway, byler endgame

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #byler analysis #byler brainrot #stranger things #I mean they even set the stage with all the emotional buld-up and explanation so that next season when everything is fast paced #There will be enough exposition from s4 that they will have enough time for a byler confession without it feeling rushed #these new crumbs have seriously refreshed my byler/stranger things obsession i swear lol

[spicybylerpolls]

The passive aggressiveness in that last poll 😂. They missed a few key points. Saying they are the main couple of the show is true, but it's a superficial explanation of why people think a sex scene is important for them and not for anyone else. To elaborate for the people too busy freaking out about sex to stop and think... Context matters. Byler having sex makes sense with their character arcs. Their arcs are about self-acceptance and learning to embrace their sexuality and sexual identity. This is not true for other members of the party. Will spent the past 2 seasons feeling like he is never going to have a romantic relationship and his sexuality sets him apart from his peers. This season he reaches a point where he accepts that he will be alone and pushes Mike to El without realizing this isn't what Mike wants. So next season will be about him realizing his mistake and accepting that Mike wants the same thing. Mike's arc has been about him trying to conform with El and realizing he lost the person he actually loved in the process. He avoided his sexuality and spent this past season reconnecting with Will emotionally and reestablishing their friendship. So next season will be about them fully embracing their romantic relationship which includes sex - because we have seen multiple hints now that they are both thinking about sex. Hints like Mike checking Will out, Will realizing this and not moving (I'm sorry but there is no way he knelt on the floor with his butt in Mike's face and didn't realize this was happening), they both flirt with each other, they both stare at each other and make lingering eye contact. Mike in his underwear is meant to show how he is getting older and more comfortable with his body. Mike checking out every male in his vicinity is meant to show he has attraction to them. Will on the other hand is more contained. He is literally buttoned up all season even in the desert. He is more shy/reserved about this part of his identity and fully embracing this would provide closure to his arc. The reason Lucas and Max don't need to have a sex scene is that it contributes nothing narratively to their arcs or the story as a whole. And why the hell would Dustin and El have sex? To pair off the spares? El's whole arc is about finding her identity outside of being a superhero and finding her family. It's about friendship and learning how to have stronger (platonic) relationships. Sex isn't a part of her story. She isn't ready for that and it's fine that she isn't at the same place as her peers. Her accepting this is important. It's plausible that Lumax would have an implied sex scene like Jancy because of the coming of age narrative, to show they are older now. But it's not as necessary for their individual character arcs. And it's not necessary to show it. It's doesn't represent self-acceptance. It doesn't represent an embrace of sexuality and release of shame like it does for byler because they don't have that component to their relationship. They don't show Jancy having sex because there is no reason to. But they have that component to their relationship because they love each other and progressing to that stage made sense to progress their story. In the same way that hinting that Lumax had sex could make sense for them but it is also plausible that their story takes a different turn next season. There isn't build up to them having sex the way their is with byler. In short, just because byler does something doesn't set a standard for everyone else. They have a different relationship. They have different arcs. They have different issues to overcome. So them having a different story is totally fine. We don't need to see everyone struggling with the same thing when they all have their own unique thing they are dealing with. Mike and Will's arcs are about accepting their identities and embracing their sexuality. Therefore, them having a sex scene makes sense with that arc. That's why it's them and not anyone else. No one else's story has to do with embracing their sexuality. Only theirs.

Please note that the purpose of this blog is not to be creepy or to make anyone uncomfortable. That's why I created the #spicy byler tag (I will tag all polls with this). If you don't want to see this blog or anything related to it on your feed, please block that tag. Not everyone is comfortable with this sorta stuff, and that's okay.

#byler #spicy byler #mike wheeler #will byers

[i-am-autistic]

I feel like if you have any media literacy at all you should know Jancy is very likely endgame.

You can read my posts and see I'm not even a hardcore Jancy or anything I lean more Jargyle. It's just like........

1. The writers like their original pairings from s1 a lot. Mike-El/Will(Im pro Byler, yes Will isn't present in s1 but Mike spends like 90% of the season moaning and talking about him- for the sake of this post El/Will are interchangeable), Jonathan-Nancy, Joyce-Hopper and then they also like Max-Lucas. All 4 of these couples have been presented as romantic since the pitch bible and from their first interactions.

2. S4 was all about division and how the characters lose when divided. They really focused on the absence of Jancy in s4. Hence they are building to an s5 with a lot of Jancy. We also got s4 featuring the other 2 main couples: Jopper and Lumax so it's probably going to switch to the other 2 couples to finish it off and wrap up the relationship and character arcs. The duffers really really love the whole story beat of "break the characters up and then show them coming back together". You can tell because this is exactly what they did with Jopper and Lumax in s4. Jopper obviously had a physical distance that broke them up but Lumax had an emotional distance. The same things Jancy and Mileven/Byler are bringing into s5. Arguably you could even say Byler went through this in s4.

3. Cmon bro the final scene where Nancy RUNS to Jonathan and Robin pats Steve's back is the most obvious thing of all time. People bring up the script and that it wasn't a big moment in the script but those scripts are redacted as hell to avoid giving out more information.

4. Jonathan and Steve had a pretty clear parallel this season when talking about having kids in the future. Jonathan and Steve essentially come to the same vision for their futures but both decide differently. Jonathan hates it and Steve loves it. We also know from s1 and every piece of info we've got about Nancy since s1 that Nancy also hates it and doesn't want to raise a bunch of kids. Yes I know it's possible to pursue a career and have kids. But kids in this situation and the vision Steve have don't only represent kids but also represent her parents and their relationship. Which is what the show has always told us Steve represents to her and in everything we saw in s4 he hasn't developed into this new person, he still represents that. Even if the character himself has still improved he still represents that.

5. As soon as Stancy is introduced in s4 we also get introduced to the fact that Nancy isn't over Barb and Barb will still be a part of her arc. Which she pretty inextricably links to Steve.

6. This is the one people don't realize often but s4 is literally maybe 5(?) months after the end of s3. Taking place in March 86 with S3 ending Oct 85 and about 8 months after the end of s3. Steve has seemingly had literally 0 contact with Nancy in that time and doesn't fall for her again in s4. He's already fantasizing about her as he says so it's presented as a continuation of the feelings he's always had for her and he seemingly isn't as over her in s3 as was implied. If the writers are going to write that relationship, they are essentially saying they were wrong, the characters were wrong and the audience was wrong about the relationship.

7. This is kind of a half point expansion of the above but like.....seriously it's important that none of the feelings in s4 are new feelings, it's all old feelings for a relationship the writers have told us 1 million times doesn't work. I keep seeing people say "they are different people" but they aren't that different from when they broke up. Steve's actual in show character arc has always been a lot more revolving around Nancy than it is about his relationship with Robin or the kids. Like as much as the fandom is about Steve and the kids and it's cute(And I like this too! I don't dislike this) in the show when he becomes friends with Dustin it's all tied back to Nancy with that final Dustin-Nancy scene and the relationship literally being developed with Steve ranting about his relationship. S3 his relationship with Robin in the original version is written as a romantic one as he gets over Nancy. Even in the show for 90% of s3 it seems Steve looks at Robin as a romantic partner and then switches to friends when she's not available. I think people forget he's not actually babysitting the kids in his off time in the show-the fandom is cute and such- but I don't think he spends significant time with anyone except Dustin and Robin in the show. This is moreso a point about how the writers of the show are kinda poor at evolving the characters. But seemingly the way it was presented in s4 Nancy and Steve are essentially in an incredibly similar position to when they broke up in s2.

8. Joyce in the recent play. Ok I need this to be said but like Emmerson vs NYU is a thing people make out as a bigger deal than it is. Emmerson is like an excellent university too??? Like IK people want Jonathan to be validated but he is getting validated by going to a big university. The university you pick when you're a kid doesn't really matter that much and seemingly even Jonathan hasn't brought it up. Like as a kid I wanted to go to my local uni a lot but I didn't go in the end. Emerson isn't like bumming it out it's a pretty great uni. But morseo I mean Joyce's whole arc in the First Shadow is about not going to university as an art student. They are surely not going to make her son do the exact same thing. This one is really simple I don't need to explain it.

9. I think Jopper literally solves like all of Jonathan's family issues because he won't feel as burdened and that he HAS to stay.

10. Oh as a final point I'm fairly certain Argyle with Eden in Suzie's house in s4 was supposed to be a backdoor pilot for a spinoff. And I think Jonathan's only other ending they've given so far is California. I think maybe they could include Jonathan in a spinoff but I don't think they'd want to. Like they've said they don't want to continue any mains story after s5 and Argyle is periphery enough he could leave and have a spinoff and it could work with an occasional Dustin cameo or whatver but with Jonathan I feel like he is a bit too tied to the Byers for him to be in a spinoff. Like you'd have to include the Byers too and I don't think they would want one that features central characters too much.

11. This is just my opinion.

#jonathan byers #jancy #anti stancy #nancy wheeler #byler #joyce byers #stranger things #jim hopper #jopper #this is not even really anti stancy because I don't even hate the ship I just cannot see it happening after s4

[chirpsythismorning]

I feel like it’s weird to say milkvan aren’t meant to be together merely bc they are incompatible and how that parallels them to s1 stancy, as if stancy being incompatible was their downfall… stancy’s downfall was evident the second we were introduced to Steve.

He was always trying to do sexual stuff with her when she was uncomfortable most of the time, love bombing her and making her feel special only to switch it up with him trying to get what he wanted.

Like i know in the beginning people might have liked stancy and many even still do, but it wasn’t even about them being incompatible, it was about Steve being very red flaggy in general.

I would argue that them doing all of that stuff from the very beginning, means they knew it wasn’t going to be endgame. They built it up from the start to inevitably crash down.

And that’s why now that Steve is more kind and considerate, Nancy is starting to second guess herself. Bc he’s no longer giving the laundry list of red flags he used to. But even then she’s realizing that his expectations for the future don’t at all align with hers. So if anything NOW we can argue it’s about a lack of compatibility, but I don’t think that was always the case.

Whereas with Mike and El, from the beginning their relationship is surrounded by trauma and expectations of those around them. And most of all Mike’s expectations of himself.

I do think Nancy and Mike parallel in a lot of ways. But if the point is for their arcs to be identical and they’re both in situations where the only reason their not ending up with their first partner is bc of incompatibility, then it’s like?? Why do that same storyline twice?

Because in Nancy’s case, once the red flags started to dwindle with Steve, at the exact same time she was experiencing uncertainty with her and Jonathan’s relationship, Steve presented as an option again bc she was indeed attracted to him from the beginning. The problem was never attraction or lack thereof, it was all the red flags and her having to choose from doing things she wanted to do vs things she felt like she should do bc it makes her cool.

Whereas in Mike’s case, I don’t think after a breakup with him and El, based on years of them ignoring red flags surrounding their relationship, would ever have the capacity to mirror Nancy’s situation. I don’t think if Will and Mike were together but were going through uncertainty, all while him and El are back on better terms now with her having more autonomy, that Mike would suddenly start to second guess things bc of his attraction to El, bc attraction wasn’t a factor from the beginning. It was always about her paralleling Will in a lot of ways, literally showing up in the place Will was found. In Mike’s own words, do we really think that’s a coincidence?

Is it a coincidence that Mike attached himself onto the first girl that wasn’t grossed out by him, who happened to look identical to his best friend who was currently missing?

This doesn’t mean fans can’t ship those pairings, but ignoring all of those things that happened that made them not work out in the first place means you’re ignoring the things they clearly want you to acknowledge to understand what is eventually to come.

And the fact that Mike and El have consistently had confrontations paralleled to Brenner since the very beginning, is a major red flag. And the fact that s4 doubles down on that, is giving less incompatibility and more El realizing that her experiences leading her up to this point require a lot of healing and addressing that she doesn’t owe anyone anything regarding her powers.

She hasn’t even had the opportunity to fully accept herself and learn about herself and what she likes and dislikes bc it’s always been about survival for her. It means she had to do these favors in order to get by swiftly.

The whole not Hopper, not Mike, you, is attempting to drive home this concept that El still doesn’t understand her life is hers and not those that have, yes helped her survive, but have also hindered her development in ways where the expectation is always surrounding what they think is best for her instead of her getting the chance to decide that for herself.

And in s5, when she can finally voice how she’s been feeling over the years, it’s going to be a long deserved arc being addressed, which I don’t think people are going to be able to criticize since this is her now… it’s not other people’s expectations of her, it’s just her. And she deserves to have that autonomy just like everyone else, especially after years of it being inaccessible to her.

#byler

[paintingformike]

its actually really easy to see why the feelings that will expressed in the van scene dont apply to el. cause while both el and will have similar sentiments about feeling different and alienated because of their identity, the direction of their arcs/how they’re made to achieve peace with their respective inner conflicts are contradictory to each other.

will was meant to realize that actually, him being different isnt a bad thing. he was made to see his queerness in a positive light and mike even made him feel like he was better for it. different = good. but el’s case isn’t the same, cause she wanted to get rid of the sentiment that she was different. just because she’s a superpowered girl doesn’t mean she isn’t just human like the rest, and also, she doesn’t want to feel like her powers make her better, that’s the whole point, she felt like she needed to keep up her role of being a superhero to be loved or to be important, and obviously putting her on a pedestal (like mike did) would reinforce these feelings.

to make it clear, this is literally how the van scene sounds like if you see it as both el and will’s genuine feelings for mike.

will: you make me feel like i’m not a mistake at all. like i’m better for being [gay].

el: you make me feel like i’m not a mistake at all. like i’m better for being [a superhero].

notice how seeing it through the lens of el sounds weird? she’s better for being a superhero? it literally directly contradicts el’s true feelings. she never felt like being a superhero/having powers made her better, in fact, it made her feel even more alienated. thats the whole point, she never wanted to be seen as different in the first place.

by the way i’ve talked about this before but it wasn’t as in depth, but connecting this part of the van scene to the monologue adds so much context to why mike said the things he said. will told mike that el felt like she was better for being different (aka being a superhero unlike the rest) thanks to him, right? it led to mike emphasizing her superhero role and the things he believed she was able to do beyond other human beings (you can fly you can move mountains) in the monologue, cause he was made to believe that these things did make her feel like a better person, even though it couldn’t be more opposite to what el has always tried to convey to mike. mike believing will’s lie and deciding to put his full trust in him is what made him say all the wrong things in the monologue, and that’s why the painting lie was set up to doom mleven’s relationship.

#i completely forgot about this but once i remembered it its like i had another epiphany #its so painfully obvious that mike used will’s words as his basis for the monologue #and willel’s respectives arcs are different from each other at their core #i just love being correct 😁 #byler #will byers #el hopper #byler analysis

[michaeljoncarter]

Not to be mean, but to be mean, Jon was an annoying kid and Chris is so much better. Chris' whole character arc is so good and Clark and Lois adopting a child was such a good concept. Clark doing for a kid what his Ma and Pa did to him will never not be better. Also, what is your opinion of the twins Lois and Clark adopted recently? And how do you fill about Kon (kinda) stealing Mon's place as an adoptive brother of Clark? I just don't get why Clark can't have two brothers instead of one.

the twins are… fine? i've honestly never had less of an opinion on something. they're there. i don't hate them. that's about it. honestly, i feel like the fact that i've gotten approximately 900 asks talking about all the various superkids over the past couple days and not a single person thought to mention the twins says more about their impact that i could lol

and oh boy. ok. i have MANY thoughts about the mess that is the current version of mon-el and about mon & kon in general. this is about to be stupidly long and borderline incomprehensible

the crimes committed against mon-el in rebirth have nothing to do with kon. this is yet another thing that's been done solely to prop up jon

i'm clinging to every scrap of self restraint i have to not fly off into a whole spiel about the specifics of it because like. jesus christ. it is zero exaggeration probably the worst comic i've ever read. but in short, bendis essentially turned the entire legion into a jon kent fanclub in his cursed losh reboot, and mon was just one of many casualties

he was turned into this weird oc whose only character traits are being jealous of jon, throwing temper tantrums, and saying shit with weirdly racist undertones. and also he's kryptonian now for some reason. and a biological member of the el family. and jon is his grandfather. i guess. hell is real

and just because i know most people only know mon from the cursed hexed evil cw supergirl version, which really isn't that different from bendis's version (i doubt that's a coincidence tbh), i gotta stress how completely opposite that character is to how he's been characterized in the comics

again, not gonna get into specifics in the interest of not having this turn into a novella, but here's a quick comparison just to give you a sense of how bad it really is. (i'm sure there are better examples in older comics, but i read bendis's losh at the same time i was reading the New Krypton saga, and this one in particular caused me physical pain)

(Adventure Comics (2009) #11)

(Legion of Super-Heroes (2021) #9)

(Adventure Comics (2009) #11)

(Legion of Super-Heroes (2021) #9)

i'm focusing on mon here, but again, the ENTIRE legion was just as horribly character assassinated for jon's benefit. mon's was one of the worst imo, but it wasn't the worst. spare a thought for the brainiac 5 girlies, who had to see their boy drained of literally all recognizable traits & turned into to jon's Quirky, airheaded sidekick

here's another New Krypton comparison just because

(Last Stand of New Krypton #3)

(Superman (2018) #15)

none of this was done for kon. again, it's another case of everything about a character being completely rewritten to make jon the main character of their story instead

before all this, mon & kon existed at the same time with zero problems for years. they were both allowed be in clark's life. one of my favorite storylines is actually mon's stint as superman stand-in during New Krypton, which does a lot of really good developing/exploring of their relationship. again, gonna hold back from getting into the specifics of it, but it essentially turns them into foils, and it's.... so good. they were so cute

(Superman #694)

even before this, they had a fairly lengthy history together. they haven't directly interacted that much compared to other characters, but still, i'd say erasing mon from superman comics arguably takes more away from kon than it does clark?

legion timelines are too convoluted to get into, but the 1990 shenanigans deleted clark from mon's origin, and in 1994, it was remixed so the role he played was given to kon instead

(Superboy (1994) #19)

it wasn't until infinite crisis in 2006 that the original version came back. since rebirth superman is post-crisis superman and flashpoint hit in 2011, if you wanna be pedantic about it, the rebirth version of clark only really knew mon for ~5 years, but (apart from a ~3 year blip post-infinite crisis) he & kon have had a relationship since 1994

they met for the first time less than 2 years after kon was first introduced, and his relationship with mon was what got kon involved with the legion for the first time... which has all now been completely erased because now jon and only jon is the main character of legion comics

(and it's not just kon this happened to. kara & clark have also had their histories with the legion and everyone in it completely wiped (along with just... the history of the legion as a whole) to give jon center stage)

honestly, i wish it'd been done in an attempt to give kon a more significant role in clark's life. that would be way less frustrating, way easier to fix than the mess we have now, and would also mean there was finally someone at dc who gave a shit about someone other than jon

#LONG post #ask #anonymous #conner kent #kon el #mon el #lar gand #and in the latest installment of 'unnecessarily wordy posts about things no one but me cares about' !! #tumblr lost its mind and deleted random sections of this like 10 times so. refusing to take responsibility for any weird mistakes #at one point i ctrl+ved and i have no idea where the hell it put what i had copied. lmk if you find a random sentence fragment in there lol #the switch to the new post editor is going well so far #god tbh the only reason i don't accuse bendis of straight up stealing mon-el's whole character and slapping it onto jon instead #is that no part of me is capable of believing that man read up on the legion well enough to even be aware of mon's history

[aemiron-main]

Does Mike Have Powers?

So, regarding the Mike discourse lately, there has to be a middle ground between “Mike has powers stronger than El and Henry’s combined and created the whole world” versus “Mike has nothing weird about him at all supernaturally whatsoever and people are overinflating his importance/he’s narratively not supposed to be a superhero and therefore he can’t have any sort of powers”.

Like, regarding the second point, it totally ignores things like Mike sensing El in the void & that same wording being used to describe Victor “sensing” something in the attic:

I am Not Saying that Mike has powers exactly like El’s. Just like how Victor doesn’t have powers exactly like Henry’s.

I Am saying that I think people should be more open to the idea of Mike having some sort of “sensing” ability/has the same thing going on that victor had going on, especially if he literally inherited it from Victor, via Karen being Victor’s daughter in the Edward Timeline/Karen being Daughter Virginia, and Mike being Victor’s grandson as a result.

(see this post list for an explanation of the Edward timeline Creel-Wheeler stuff)

So, Mike having some sort of “powers” doesn’t mean that he suddenly has to be a superhero. It just means there’s smthn weird going on with the Creels and the Wheelers, and whatever the hell Victor had going on is likely what Mike has going on too. I do think that people rely too heavily sometimes on the narrative that they believe exists in ST at the expense of ignoring more of the hard evidence/parallels in the show. It wouldn’t be something new for Mike, it would be something he’s already had all along and has already been feeling/using/experiencing (see: him sensing El). So, it wouldn’t suddenly turn him into a superhero.

Hell, I’m not even saying that all of the different pieces of evidence that seem to tie Mike to supernatural stuff are true/I’m not even saying he has powers or sensing abilities for sure (although I think he does have smthn in that regard going on), but what I am saying is that “Mike can’t have powers narratively because his arc is about not being a superhero” is not an effective rebuttal to the harder evidence that’s In The Show re: Mike and the supernatural.

Providing a different explanation for that evidence is fair and isn’t what I’m criticizing, but just handwaving it away because of your own views on what the narrative is/what you think it should be isn’t fair/accurate.

#stranger things #mike wheeler #the creelers #st creel timeline weirdness #timeline theory

[onstoryladders]

one of the things that make bylers and miIevens view of the show utterly incompatible is the way we see el and her feelings towards mike (but more specifically her feelings towards her relationship with mike)

ive seen people say that bylers only care abt mike and will and don't give a damn abt her, but that's just a misunderstanding based on the fact that they see els arc in a totally different way than we do

for example the way i see it, el reached the peak of her pain (when it comes to her love life) at the start of s4 when she and mike fought in lenora. when mike told will that it felt like a fight you can't come back from, he wasn't exaggerating at all: it was the truth. there's no coming back from that, and the "from el" written at the end of what could very possibly have been els LAST message to mike is proof of that. she left that love behind

now why do i think that?

because of the way the whole storyline has been structured:

- el spends basically the whole season away from mike because she chooses to. she focuses on something else, her priorities lie in finding herself and the truth about her own past. once again her arc points towards self discovery and independence, and with this i don't mean to say that she has to be alone in order to be independent, but that she needs to find who she is OUTSIDE of her relationships. when mike says that she's a superhero he's once again imposing a certain view on her that she doesn't want. she needs to decide for herself. she needs to find who el hopper really is

- mike works through his internal conflict with the help of the other love interest. literally wtf lmao

- when el reunites with mike and will, she has the same reaction with both. now of course shes happy to see them, but when we get to the surfer boy place, she doesn't seem mad at mike anymore. she seems tired, contemplative, sad like she reached a conclusion........

why is that important? because if mikes monologue had to be what FIXED their relationship then she would've still been mad at him at that point. there wouldve been conflict because that's how stories work – up and down and up and down. so she would've avoided him or just kept her distance in general. but she doesn't. because she's done

IMAGINE FOR A MOMENT if the surfer boy scene went differently. imagine mike just telling her "ily" and she smiling and saying "ily too 💖💖 you finally said it 💖💖💖💖" it wouldve been so fucking anticlimactic lol

- mikes monologue doesn't fix shit because we don't see them together anymore. like yeah she puts her head on his shoulder in the hospital, but if the monologue was really meant to be this grand turning point for their relationship they would've put more focus on its aftermath.... and they didn't

- mike telling her "you're my superhero" goes against the core of els character arc throughout not only this season but the whole show. mike didn't learn anything

now im not saying ppl have to agree with me on this, even though of course i think this is the interpretation that 1) makes the most sense and 2) is most significant and compelling storytelling-wise. im just saying that once you see things this way the "byler don't care about el" argument crumbles because that's literally false: we don't want el to suffer and be alone against her will, we want her to leave mike behind because we genuinely think that it's what's best for her because her storyline SUPPORTS THAT

meanwhile wills story doesnt support heartbreak at all because of the way his feelings for mike are interwoven with his feelings about his sexuality

#byler #byler analysis #sorta