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twdmusicboxmystery · 3 years

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Emily’s Instagram Live

Okay, let’s talk about what Emily said on her live, yesterday. Actually, it was kind of funny. @fangipanilove messaged me about it, but I couldn’t sit down and watch it right away because I was with my niece and nephew. But she said I would probably get all kinds of messages and Asks about it. And almost instantly, the messages started rolling in. ;D Do we know our fandom or what?

Okay, so if you didn’t watch it, you can do so HERE.

During this live, Emily is answering questions. She gets one about if she will be returning to TWD and she says, “Not that I know of, but that would be fun, wouldn’t it? If I got asked, I’d probably do it.” So naturally, that’s causing some concern in our fandom.

(Thanks to @doeroseq for this edit.)

I can address this from two different angles: what she says, and how she says it.

What Emily says:

Yes, she seems to say that she won’t be returning anytime soon. But you guys have to remember that TWD actors sign dictionary-sized, iron-clad contracts. They legally CANNOT reveal spoilers. If they were to do it anyway, they would be fired, sues, and likely never work in the industry again. That’s not an exaggeration.

Two examples to illustrate when we’ve seen this in the past.

A. When Lenny James returned for S5, he told a story about how while filming, they wanted to keep his return super-secret. Instead of putting him up at a hotel (because they feared him being seen by spoiler cameras) they had him stay with a local couple who rented out their basement apartment. They didn’t even know who they would be hosting, other than that it was someone who was going to be filming for S5 of the show.

And to hear Lenny tell it, the way the show drilled into this couple’s that they couldn’t tell ANYBODY the identity of their lodger--no way, no how, or else—bordered on harassment. (Okay, not really, but you get the idea.) When the woman saw Lenny James (she was a local and a fan of the show, so she definitely knew who he was) she’s was like, “Ah, YOU’RE the reason.”

So the point is, when they don’t want something spoiled, they’re very aggressive about it. (Which is why so many of us believe that when spoilers DO come out, they’re leaked by the show itself, but that’s a topic for another day.

B. I use this as an example a lot, but that’s only because it’s a real-life, proven thing we can point to. Remember when between S6 and S7, before we knew for certain who Negan’s victim would be, every single actor who was asked about it said they didn’t know? It was kind of a ridiculous lie since they’d FILMED the scene, but the point is, they looked straight into the eyes of the fans and lied.

And I’m really not hating on them for it. Look, you can be as angry as you want at the actors and writers for lying about things, but the fact is, it’s in their contracts. You could argue it’s not really their fault.

I do believe they’re very careful with their words, planning them whenever possible and going out of their way to not lie if they don’t have to, simply because they’re uncomfortable with it and don’t like lying to fans.

But when they get pinned down and asked directly, they will lie rather than tell spoilers. And we have precedent for that.

So, if Emily really isn’t returning, she’ll say she isn’t returning. If she actually IS returning, she’ll still say she isn’t returning. We’re going to get the same answer either way. Just keep that in mind.

How Emily says it:

Before I actually watched the clip, the way people described it to me, I thought it was a question that really flustered and frustrated her. Again, it was just the way people were describing it to me and I made an assumption before watching for myself.

So, when I did watch, it surprised me how NOT flustered she was. She answered quickly and easily and even smiled when she said it.

That’s really not the norm for Emily. In fact, back in S6, TD got all suspicious because they kept canceling Emily’s TWD panels. Then she did an interview Kate Nash, who has a huge social media following, but isn’t mainstream or affiliated with the show. (X)

And it wasn’t a formal interview, actually. She just invited Emily to watch episode 6x09 with her live. I don’t think Emily realized Kate knew anything about TD or would ask about it, but she did. Emily got all flustered and very obviously avoided answering questions and tried to redirect Kate’s attention. We all joked that this is why they kept cancelling Emily’s panels: she really has no poker face. (X)

And has she gotten better at answering questions about Beth’s return over the years? Sure! But that still suggests she’s had to get better at lying about it.

So, the instant I watched it, I felt like this was a question she was super-prepared for (maybe it was even planted?) and that’s why she answered it with such serene confidence. She was expecting it and had an answer all prepared.

So then I sat back an started thinking about it, especially the timing of it. And the more I thought, the more suspicious I got.

From what I can tell, it’s less that she said it that’s freaking everyone out and more that she hasn’t said this so directly much, if at all, over the years since Coda. This feels like a direct confirmation, which we haven’t had before.

But guys, they also haven’t said Beth’s name in the last 6 years, either.

I find it highly suspicious that after 10x17 comes out, when her name is mentioned twice and EVERYONE is talking about her and the sister theme (not just our fandom but other TWD fans, too) that suddenly Emily gets this question in a live. Her answer is, unlike what is usual for her, direct, serene, confident, and said with a smile. In it, she directly refutes her return, while simultaneously hinting that “someday she might.”

Yeah, I’m really not buying it.

It actually reminds me of when she was filming the missing scenes in the white cabin back during S5. Spoiler cameras actually caught her—recognized by her yellow polo and blond ponytail—getting out of a white van and going into that cabin. The instant it hit the airwaves (everyone was so glad she was filming bc it meant Beth was alive and not eaten at Terminus—Emily instant jumped on Twitter and tweeted that she was going to the movies with some friends.

Even the spoiler site who famously hated Beth’s character laughed about what an obvious attempted-misdirect that was. Especially because it came RIGHT after fans started figuring stuff out.

This feels the same to me.

On a slightly different note (but somewhat relevant) it seems that they MIGHT not be releasing 10x18 early. I don’t know for certain, so we’ll just have to wait and see, but I read an article that said that because they released 10x17 a week early, the people who watched it early spoiled it for those that didn’t and half the fan based was pissed off, so they might not release 10x18 early.

That doesn’t seem like a very good reason, to me. Not that I don’t sympathize with those who don’t want to be spoiled, but they’ve been releasing episodes 2 days early for several years, now, and people who watch early almost always post about it online.

I’m sure releasing it 7 days early instead of 2 compounded the problem, but they MUST have known that going in. Why pick now to suddenly decide spoilers aren’t a good thing? It seems like a made up reason to me, which means there’s some other reason they are contemplating not releasing the episode early.

I truly have no idea what it is, but my TD brain can’t help but wonder if it’s because SO MANY people are talking about Beth and the possibility of her return in the wake of 10x17. And I’m not suggesting that she’ll return in 10x18 or anything. I’m not at all expecting that. I’m just saying something’s going on there.

So I get why some people might be upset about Emily’s live, but don’t be. We have plenty of precedent for them lying about what’s going to happen in the show, misdirecting when people get too close to the truth, and Emily was just entirely too happy to answer that question, in my opinion. My take on it: tptb are doing damage control. ;D

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth tis almost here #bethyl

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afishlearningpoetry · 3 years

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if we theorize that s5 will open with some sort of reveal of john's fake death, do you think the entirety of the series will be a non-linear narrative? or could it be that just the cold open of the first episode will make that revelation and afterwards the narrative will follow the chronological order of events?

Well thinking back to all the other openings, I don’t know if it will be a cold open to his death. Even when TRF opens with a blue John mourning against a window battering with rain we as the audience know he isn’t dead, the opening scene should be about starting the action of the episode. It would be weird to see Sherlock seeing John’s body only for the adventurous opening music to kick in lol — like imagine his grieving face and then the drums start pounding. I mean maybe they could do that with some differences, it would set the tone in a really startling way.

I think it would be really cool if the opening both established how the general public perceived series 4 through John’s blog like the opening of TEH and also had John kicking off the action in some way, trying to find Mary/Moriarty or someone who’s connected to them. No matter what, we shouldn’t see that it’s him doing it though, even if he’s obscured or in disguise, but we should know in retrospect (or right away for us lol) it’s him.

I think the episode will be mostly chronological but feature brief glimpses into the real events of series 4. The show almost never does proper flashbacks like in other shows, but there are exceptions, like the ending of THOB where we see the lab experiment from Sherlock’s perspective. There’s also Mary leaning over Sherlock’s bed where his perspective is very distorted, even though it’s happening chronologically. I think we’ll see the two distinct guns from series 4 again and the same shots but more, like maybe the camera will pan or change the focus to reveal John being the one who shot Mary in TST, and John pointing the gun at his head before breaking free of Mary’s control, something like that, glimpses of Mary controlling John in his house, making sure he doesn’t answer Sherlock’s calls, maybe a glimpse of drugging him, causing him to go into that hypnotic trance.

I also think we’ll get a kind of throwaway explanation of Redbeard, when Mycroft of Sherlock talks about the fake final problem story John invented. The point of the Redbeard thing is that no one made Sherlock, he made himself, especially now I’m seeing that theme a lot in the doctor who seasons I’m watching, but it will have some kind of payoff. Sherlock does hear his bark in the lamp scene in TAB.

“The hybrid” prophecy in series 9, for example, is never explained explicitly, but the audience does get one possible answer that’s more probable than the others without it being THE answer, and it allows ambiguity and emotional resolution to the main relationship of the story (12 and Clara) while still being open to interpretation by the audience. The point of the prophecy is that the doctor pretends to know what the answer is to get what he wants. It doesn’t serve any other plot purpose. I think someone will suggest that Redbeard was put down and Mycroft made fun of him for it and that will be the end of it. It fits everything we know about Redbeard, Sherlock’s mind palace, Mycroft teasing him about it before the wedding, having it written down in his notebook because he’s reminding himself he did that to Sherlock. Gatiss has said as much before when talking about where the final problem twist came from:

“I remember being in Beryl’s [Vertue’s] flat [Sherlock’s executive producer] and we were talking about something else and I said, ‘What if Redbeard is not a dog?’ And then everything clicked from there.” “Redbeard began as a joke. It was a little reference to the fact that Sherlock had been convinced that his pet dog had gone to live on a farm and we sort of took out the cruelty of Mycroft tormenting him and then it became this thing.”

It will have an answer but it won’t be treated as a rubber ducky moment in a dramatic narrative that progresses to the next thing they have to do. My guess is it will be in the resolution of the episode after the plot is resolved to emphasize that it’s not that important. Probably when talking about John’s blog. So I think it will be mostly chronological with brief flashbacks and maybe a marginal jump forward in the opening.

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elizabethsharmon · 4 years

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Now that s5 has ended what do you think about it? I remember seeing you be quite vocal about the season and then you just stopped and I was just wondering what your general opinion is. Did the fandom scare you away? :(

hey there! I kind of stopped being so loud about the show here cause at some point I just gave up about s5 and don’t worry, it would take a lot for fandom to scare me away and i’ll be back with my usual bullshit in 2 weeks with s6 clip by clip reactions ✌️ anyway, i was going through my archive while writing this to remind myself of what happened in each clip and what were mine and fandom’s reactions to it and somehow when I started writing this, it turned out I can’t stop and it got quite long so I'mputting it under read more:

So first of all may I just say that the trailer/firstclip was one of my favourite clips of all times. It was just SO GOOD and to meit was like a dream come true cause I was talking about dropping a clip andstarting a season on New Year since July AND THEY DID IT AND IT WAS E P I C,such a power move, I love it. Honestly everything worked there, the music wasamazing, it was so wonderful to see both squads partying together, it wasperfect, 11/10.

Then the season started and I absolutely loved thefirst two episodes, we really started to get into Arthur's head, to get to knowhim and his family, find out how insecure he is and how well he's hidingeverything from others, and Arthur and Alexia clips!!!! They worked so welltogether and were so cute and supportive, I said it back then that if they ruinthem I will never forgive them for that because what was the point of makingthem a couple in the first place?? I still don't understand that, I don't thinkI ever will... Fast forward to the first Wednesday of the season aka underwatermale gaze aka the moment I knew we're in for a ride and it won't be a goodone... When the clip started I was over the moon, I'm a swimming hoe myself andI loved that they used the pool for actual swimming, the cinematography wasbeautiful and I loved that they found a way to incorporate Lisa into the story.That was until Arthur dived and saw Noee... and sadly, this was the firstmoment I emotionally yeeted out from the season. Don't even get me started howwrong it was - 1. using the pool which is a sacred place in the show’smythology; 2. using piano music; 3. peak male gaze, objectifying Noee, andArthur staring at her even though HE HAD A GIRLFRIEND; they were setting it upas a love triangle from the beginning and after those 10+ weeks I still havethe same question about it as I had back then: why. It was also the first timefandom started to be hostile and the shipping war began, some people werecoming to my and my friends' inboxes, sending us anons to stop thinking theworse about Arthur, that love triangle will definitely not happen and thatDavid explained on his insta that they used the setting of pool in another waythan it was used in og s3... Well, jokes on you cause we were right. Anyway thatWednesday clip was to me the first red flag of the season, the first momentwhen some people started attacking others, when the fandom police started formingand suddenly you couldn't say anything because someone would jump on you andsend hate.

But I decided to let it slide, hoping that they reallywouldn't go there (spoiler alert: they did) and then we got Friday clips withelu housewarming (i'm still emo!!!) and Arthur losing his hearing permanently.It was absolutely heartbreaking to find out he lost hearing in his left ear 2years ago, it was a real game changer back then and suddenly everything changed- why he was looking at Alexia so intently, why he didn't cover his left ear atnye party, etc. I absolutely LOVED the way they handled the topic at thebeginning with Jerome explaining everything to Arthur and to us and I LOVED thepositive discourse it started within the fandom with deaf/hoh people teachingothers and explaining things without getting mad at silly questions - tbh to meit was one of the best parts of the first half of the season and I'm reallygrateful for it ❤️

Sunday clips with gang were one of my favourite in theseason, I think Arthur took us all by surprise when he went to elu's flat totell the guys that he can't hear and they were chaotic and supporting andamazing and wow, I really don't understand what the fuck happened and wherethey disappeared in the second half of the season. I loved that they hinted aturbex king Eliott and I kinda feel like that might come back in s6....... butanyway. The 7 amclips were absolutely one of the highlights of the season. They helped to buildsome sort of routine and Robin absolutely nailed them, I could feel howpowerless and more frustrated he was feeling AND I also felt betrayed that wedidn't get one on Thursday and Friday. Even though after the first pool clip Iwas dreading every single next clip there, I really liked that they were showingus that Arthur goes there every Wednesday, it really helped to get inside hishead and to understand him more and I kinda wish they hadn't stopped thatbecause it would be a really power move to keep showing that. Alexia in episode2 was just WOW, i can't believe there were people who were saying she andArthur don't have chemistry or that he should break up with her because she'snot supportive - well, she proved you all wrong. Too bad Arthur was too dumband self-absorbed to appreciate that.

BASILE/ARTHUR FRIENDSHIP. All their clips were solovely and heartwarming, I loved how different Basile was in Arthur's pov toBasile we knew at the beginning of s3; when he didn't want to leave Arthuruntil he said back that he loves him :'))) wholesome. I kinda wish we got tosee more of those two, they're definitely hanging out just the two of them andthat's what was lacking for me, those 3 or so clips of just the two of thembeing wholesome buddies were great but they were not enough.

The party clip on Thursday of ep2 was great, I lovedhow they're giving us little insights of deaf/hoh community and showing usArthur getting drawn to it. I wish that it wasn't overshadowed by love triangleand we got more of it, but I'll be back to it later...

Now, episode 3 and 4 were strong in the term of clipsbut those two weeks were incredibly boring when you were watching it in realtime. The breaks were too long, there were three clipless days each episodewith hardly any social media update and at times it made me forget about theshow completely. The bar clip in ep3 was great until they started sayingproblematic shit and tbh I was really starting to stress over Eliott then -first we got a hint that housewarming party was canceled because he wasn't feelingwell, now over a week later he's not feeling well again and Lucas' "he'smy boyfriend and i love him" was very cute and I loved it but it alsostarted to lead to misery porn and this dread didn't leave me until the end ofthe season and I'm still worried that it will play a part in s6 and it won't behandled well (disclaimer: this is not about the fact that they're talking aboutEliott's MI, it's about how Lucas started to act like a martyr and the way theystarted to show him acting almost like Lucille).

Episode 3 was also the time when I think it becameobvious that Arthur's short outburst of communication was gone and we'll haveto deal with next few weeks of miscommunication, sulking and hiding. Beginningof ep4 was another moment for me when I wanted to escape from this seasonbecause of the fandom police - they created as hostile atmosphere for the fanswatching in real time as druck stans did during s3, when you couldn't commentanything or say anything without other people jumping on you, calling you outand hating you, that for a moment again I was ready to give up on the show. Ireally wish I had done it.

As much as I liked stupid gang content in thecafeteria the whole clip was kinda odd and the 1,5 days break between the clipand laser tag was too much. I feel like the pacing in episode 4 really didn'twork in their favour and the clips could've been placed in another order sothat the breaks weren't so long. The laser tag was such a strong clip withbeautiful cinematography and colouring and it showed us Arthur's problems withsensory overload and again - I wish we could find out more about it because inthe end the clip was too short and cut abruptly only for Arthur to go to Noeeto see her dance in a scene that was pure male gaze, where the camera lingeredon her flat, bare stomach, a few times showing close up of her boobs. And yes.I am aware sing language is a bodily language. But the thing is that itcould've been shown differently, without so many objectifying shots, with Noeewearing different clothes, without Arthur staring at her with his jaw dropped.Arthur who - may i remind you - had a girlfriend at that time. I can watchgore, I can watch open surgeries, I can watch blood, and fight, and beating,and all that without the blink of the eye. i could barely watch the clip ofNoee dancing. I've never felt so sick after watching something in my life, Ihad to go offline for a few hours cause I was feeling so unwell. This was sucha fucked up scene to film in such a way, to objectify her, to use male gaze, touse piano music, slow motion, man looking at her in a predatory way, and thisscene was so wrong on so many levels itself but when you add to it the factthat Alexia NEVER got scenes like that and all her dancing scenes showed her basicallyas a quirky friend having fun at parties. And that's disgusting.

But let's move on to episode 5. I loved all the scenesin the asso, I loved that they showed Arthur actually going to LSF classes, Iloved how he confronted his father about it later. Though episode 5 was alsothe start of the boy squad becoming brainless idiots, lying to his friend,plotting behind his back, going to a concert without him. Episode of beautifulcinematography and skating scene that I watched trying not to think about thefact that Arthur is basically having a date with another girl while hisgirlfriend is studying for her bac, of an oblivious guy not wanting to stop itbefore it's too late and everyone's hearts will be broken.... I loved that hesnapped at the guys in the detention clip. I liked the following clip withAlexia, when they made her talk about her insecurities, showed us how strongshe is but also how fragile she is at the same time. But that Sunday of episode6 was the moment I ultimately realized I don't care any more about this season.It was already ruined for me. Alexia opening up, Alexia asking Arthur aboutNoee and him saying the worst ableist shit ever, Arthur breaking Noee'sheart... Those three clips made me realize that for me it's too late, thedamage is done, and I won't be able to enjoy this season for real. Alexia wasbound to get her heart broken, I was pitying Noee because it wasn't her fault aguy she had a crush on kept on leading her for weeks, and Arthur... I dislikedhim more and more and I just wanted it to be over.

I loved all clips with Laura and Melchior, the playfuldynamic in their interactions with Arthur was one of the best things of theseason and I can't stop but think that we could've had the same thing but withArthur, Noee, and Camille. Meanwhile Noee was reduced to manic pixie dreamgirl, a homewrecker, a plot device, and Camille was there only to translate(and later to be Mika's boyfriend). I really liked the clip with Noee andArthur reading her letter about cochlear implant, it was very informative andit was the kind of content I really wanted to see in this season. The onlything I hated about it - which was a recurring theme in clips with Noee... - isthat Arthur kept forgetting about Alexia and this was so unfair to her.

Now. The Valentine's Day. I loved the sourd datingclip, again, it was something that I wanted to see in the season and it was avery strong clip. But then the rest of the episode... I really wish it didn'texist. Jumping to the pool in clothes???? Arthur sharing his deepest trauma andNoee kissing him??? NOEE AND ARTHUR SHIPPERS JUMPING ON PEOPLE SAYING THAT SHEDID IT TO COMFORT HIM???? Sorry guys, I don't know about you but when myfriends are sharing something traumatizing to me I hug them or hold their hand,I don't kiss them with tongue. Also using a flashback??? It doesn’t go wellwith the show’s format, why was it even used???

Episode 8 was... Episode 8 was wild. And weird. Andstrange. And I don't really know what was the point of it. But despiteeverything crackfic farm au was at least entertaining and it was kind ofsomething we needed then after weeks of will they/won't they and hating Arthur.Whipped elu was everything, the fifi saga was hilarious and I rewatched itaround 50 times and it still makes me laugh - Maxence nailed it but ?? what wasthe point? they killed Eliott's bunny so that he would become vegetarian? Theywanted to traumatize him and cause him to have an episode that was cut in theend? (I really wouldn't be surprised, there are 2 clips missing from firstepisodes each, and probably more in the others). I really don't know what wasthe point. The 6h15 or sth clip was funny but if Lucas and Arthur hugging itout cause sorry bro / it's okay bro / bro / bro is what they're considering aproper apology then I'm sorry but it isn't. What's more, the pacing of thisepisode was incredibly off and the clips didn't add up and there wasn't anynatural flow to it - they should've madetwo clips on Sunday - with Arthur getting to the van and them arriving to thecountryside, two clips on Monday with 6 am and then Daphne and Basile, Fifitrilogy on Tuesday and then right after midnight on Wednesday Arthur and Alexiain the barn. Now, the cheating excusing convo... I was absolutelydisgusted by the boy squad and the fact that YANN who was cheated on in s1advised Arthur to not say anything... wow. Also I really don't like what Eliottsaid there, I understood it in that moment that he was mainly talking from aphilosophical pov that humans are never satisfied in general, but he was sayingthat during the cheating convo, right after he said that he cheated on his gfto get with his bf, he said it while Lucas was right there, knowing that he hasdeeply rooted abandonment issues and this is what made the situation worse. Ithink I'll talk more about the fandom reaction and team's comments later causethere will be a lot to unpack there so yeah, I'll leave it for now.

Because now let's move on to February 21, aka theFriday that changed everything. Can I just say that I have never seen a worseclip ever in my life? That wasn't skam. That was soap opera. And not even agood one. I can't even comprehend how they wrote THIS and thought it was good.I despise the choice of making Noee speak out loud with every fiber of mybeing. First they objectified her, reduced her to the plot device and 1/3 ofthe love triangle, and now they stripped her of her integrity for a guy who wasconstantly leading her on, who has a girlfiend. They made her so desperate tomake him stay with her that she lost a part of himself for him. And for who??For a guy who didn't give a fuck about her? Who constantly played with herfeelings? Who mocked her and her language and her culture and didn't do so onlywhen it was convenient for him? Honestly fuck him, fuck Arthur. And then A CARCRASHED INTO HIM LIKE ????????????? Someone please explain to me what was thepoint of that cause the only one I see was to provide a fandom with a greatfree entertainment.

Now, episodes 9 and 10 were overall much stronger thanthe past few weeks but it was already to late to salvage the season. We gotanother cheating apologists scene which was - again - absolutely disgusting,especially coming from Lucas - who gave Arthur the same advice he gave to Emma- and Yann - who was cheated on and knew from his own experience that stufflike that always come out in the end. It's like all their character developmentfrom previous seasons went down the drain. Arthur on the other hand seemed tohave a character regression with each passing week. I'm still appalled by whatLucas said - that Alex is their friend but Arthur is part of the gang. It wasdisgusting. And it was out of the character. And it was the worst possiblething that could've been said.

Coline's song was so beautiful and I was so happy thatArthur finally realized what he's lost, though I feel like all those intensestaring between Arthur and Noee was unnecessary again, it's like they couldn'tjust give us a break for one clip from them, it's like she was constantlystealing Alexia's moments, whether she was on screen at the time or not.

The clip with elu was sweet and gave us greatwholesome content, but it only confirmed that Lucas' abandonment issues woke upfrom their nap and I'm already dreading what they're planning to do with thatin s6, especially that according to the latest news Lucas is not very presentin the next season... The polyamory talk... It was odd. It felt force. Thebuildup to it wasn't done very well and what' more it was built on cheating.And that's doesn't bode well. It's also quite ridiculous how it took 1 minuteconversation with Lucas or even one sentence from him tbh for Arthur to go"oh yeah I'm poly. I think." and tell Noee that he loves her eventhough he spent the last couple of weeks denying that and pushing her away. IHATE that yet again they made her be so desperate and cry when he was tellingher this. That's not Noee they gave us in the first half of the season. Ireally liked the clip of Laura and Melchior and Arthur giving the presentationto the students but Arthur's grandiose speech to students and then to girls wasso strange, there wasn't any buildup to it, or more likely Arthur that we werehaving on screen from the end of ep 4 till the end of ep9 was gone and the oldArthur finally showed up. But nevertheless it was strange and not very fittingto the way how the story progressed.

NOW the last two clips - first was a little bit shortand I can't say I was a huge fan (though Eliott's kermit-like dance waseverything jdskjdkjjd) but the second clip was absolutely beautiful, we finallysaw Daphne talk, I'm still not sure what to think about Noee/Arthur (not reallya fan of how the story was resolved... or how it wasn't resolved), AND THEMURAL! LUCAS CRYING BECAUSE HE'S PROUD OF HIS BOYFRIEND! ELIOTT ONCE A YEARMAKING A MURAL OUT OF PURE LOVE! EVERYONE CRYING! ELIOTT NOT PAINTING HIMSELFBECAUSE HE DOESN'T CONSIDER HIMSELF PART OF THE SQUAD (although he is, I don'tknow why they don't understand it) and... Lola. But I guess I'll be back to itlater.

So now, I can't say I'm a fan of the season. I enjoyedsome of the clips, but overall it was a mess, love triangle and fandom and crewbehaviour ruined the season for me. I was absolutely disgusted but howprivileged fans acted on tumblr and on twitter. And yes. There are privilegedfans, fans who were shutting others up because they "don't want us to getour hopes up when we don't know what might happen", fans who were sayingthat "you don't know anything haha i can promise you don't know shit hahano i don't know anything and no i'm not jealous haha you just don't know buthaha tell me this oh how stupid you are", fans who were acting like afandom police all the freaking time, yelling at everyone to "wait and see!you don't know what will happen!". Well. We didn't. Because contrary to 5%of the "little ones-fans", the rest 95% is not privileged enough toget a special treatment, to be invited on set for filming, to know the detailsof the plot before the season airs, to know the bigger picture. It's not fair.If you really know everything then great, I'm happy for you, but let the otherswatch the show how they like, let them react to it clip by clip. Because mostof us don't know the bigger picture and don't know what will happen and how theissues will be resolved. And you are aware that the format of the show itselfencourages viewers to react to the events of the story as they resolve onscreen and through transmedia content, right? That's the essence of skam.Taking that away from the regular fans because you've been let in to some innercircle and know it all is absolutely disgusting. Don't interact with the fandomif you can't stand seeing people not agreeing with the writing choices,questioning what they watch and theorizing about what will happen. If you're soabove it, then just stick with the people like you, with those 5% or so ofknow-it-all and "enjoy" the show with them. Don't ruin the fun forothers. You're not better than anyone else. Don't act like it. Don't be ahypocrite. Don't act publicly as a fandom police, criticize everyone who sharesspoilers and call them out and write hateful posts, if you're doing the sameprivately, if you can't shut up when someone sends you a dm or a message offanon and suddenly you spill everything. Don't be fake. If you know stuff, thengreat, I don't know admit it and say that you want say anything or don't sayanything but then don't spread the spoilers and don't write cryptic comments inthe tags. It's not helping anyone and it's definitely not doing anything good.And to people on twitter currently posting what I guess they assume are vaguetweets about cast’s personal lives? Fuck you. You’re so loud, you know? Maybeyou think you’re talking in a special code only you and your friends can guessbut it’s so obvious and so disgusting, you really have no shame. Grow up andget a life.

Another thing that ruined the season for me was theway the crew was acting on twitter and instagram and I’m so so so disappointed by their behaviour,especially that I’ve always considered them as one of the most open-mindedteams who respect their fans and their opinions. Turns out they do that butonly when the reactions to the clips are positive. I mean, I kind of get it,obviously everyone wants to hear the praise, but you cannot ignore thenegative comments and fans’ concerns, especially that there were plenty of themthis season. And during social media age when it takes one click to see theliked posts or comments, it becomes obvious that the crew was only interacting (evenin such a passive way like liking comments or tweets) with fanswho were praising the show. All the negative comments and questions werebrushed off, saying that “the season will reveal its own truth” and that iffans will have any questions they will be answered after. Well, franklyspeaking, me and my friends have a list of questions that we’d love to get ananswer for:

- why was love triangle necessary?- why did they make Alexia and Arthur a couple in the first place if theywanted him to go after Noee?- why did Noee say she doesn't like talking out loud cause sign language is howshe communicates only to yell at Arthur to stop him from leaving, losing herintegrity for a guy who doesn't care about her?- car????????????????????????- cheating convos - why are they excusing it like that- treatment of Alexia & why did they include numerous comments about Alexia'sbody?- THE MALE GAZE - why did the camera focus so much on Noee's body, why was sheobjectified and why was she presented as a stark contrast to Alexia?- fifi?- p*trick and why the abuse was introduced so late in the plot and overshadowedimmediately by cheating and then followed by crackfic farm au?- why didn't we see any Arthur centered clips where he shows he likes art?- why did Arthur and space have no relevance in the season???- why are Lucas and Yann saying shit every time they open their mouths and whydid they forgot about everything that happened in s1?- the whole convo with the boy squad on valentine's day and how shitty theirreaction was - why?- why we didn't see any actual squad interactions on holidays and no realapologies?- why does the life of the characters always has to revolve around romanticrelationships?- why can't men and women be friends unless the man is gay?- what was the point of all the ship wars and skamlaserie photo withArthur/Alexia and Arthur/Noee *especially* after all the comments on twitterand on Instagram when fans were fighting already and it only made thingsescalate? Why not stop it, why pit fans against each other, why let it escalatelike that?- why draw parallels between elu and Arthur/Noee?- Why was Noee reduced to love interest and Camille to translator 90% of thetime and why don't give them similar dynamics with Arthur as Melchior and Laurahave?- how can Arthur see underwater?- Catherine - was she just a queerbait?- tuturo comment from the forum and Arthur's 'relationship' with 34 yo - whywasn’t it mentioned ever again?- how could noee not know arthur has a girlfriend since she was following himon instagram and he had photos with alexia there?- what happened with basile's birthday since they never celebrated them??- in samedi 11:04 (5x10) eliott says "i've got some croissants, do youwant me to heat them up?" which implies that he's already bought them andbrought them back to the flat BUT he's putting his jacket on as if he was aboutto leave and then he leaves and slams the door so what's the truth?

The crew completely invalidated the feelings andconcerns of the fans and what added fuel to the flame for me was thatskamlaserie post with Arthur/Noee/Alexia and caption that they can’t choosecause they love them both and… Honestly, who the hell works there. There’s beendrama for the whole week on twitter and under David’s posts on insta andinstead of finally end it, idk block the comments or just make a statement ORWHATEVER, they posted THAT on the official show’s account?? Why haven’t they stopped it? Why did they keep on pitting fans against each other up to the point that one twitter user started getting DEATH THREATS only because they translated some video??? Absolutely disgusting.@skamlaserie and @fr team: hate to break it to you but there's nothing wrong with being single andthere's plenty of teenagers who aren't in relationships in high school andthat's okay... maybe that's how Arthur should've started the season instead ofbecoming a cheater and leading on two girls at the same time just for the sakeof having unnecessary relationship drama which literally only created somepointless ship wars and put half of the fandom off watching the show... just saying.

Then, another things that rubbed me the wrong way werethe whole “canceling” discourse (that never really happened and I still standby what I said in the comments to this post so I’ll just direct you to it) and imposingthe one “right” interpretation on the fans - I specifically have the cheatingconvo from episode 8 in mind now. We all have a right to our owninterpretations of every scene, here many people saw it as Eliott’s commenthaving an effect on Lucas and his abandonment issues and started commenting onthat on twitter and David had to rush to explain that he hadn’t meant Lucas,that Eliott won’t cheat and that they won’t break up and will stay together.Well, the thing is that there’s such a concept as “the death of the author”which I suppose you can already guess from its name says that the author, theirbeliefs, backstory, opinions, etc. shouldn’t be taken into account wheninterpreting the text because writing (or in this case - a show) and creatorare separate entities and shouldn’t be correlated. First of all, thismetaphorical extinguishing of fire seemed pointless and like a mockery, seeinghow two episodes later it turned out people were right and Lucas really tookEliott’s comment personally and his insecurities and abandonment issues wereshowing up again; secondly, after that there were many comments from the crewabout how Elu will stay forever and never break up and maybe it’s just me but Ithink that was obvious, right? So why would they keep repeating that? Unless…something will happen in s6 that will make us doubt that and it’s a preemptive damagecontrol 🙃

So to sum up this monstrosity that I have no idea ifit even makes any sense BUT ANYWAY: I liked some of the things in s5 but overall Ireally really didn’t like it, some people in the fandom were incrediblyannoying and turned out to be fake and complete hypocrites, and the crew’s behaviour on socialmedia leaves a lot to be desired and I can only hope they will acknowledge anycriticism of s6 and won’t blatantly ignore fans’ criticism again. So that’d beit. If you read it till the end then you’re stronger than Sabrina giffingArthur getting hit by a car and I respect you for that cause even I haven’t reread it, have a nice quarantineand stay safe!

#skam france #skamfr #anon #answered #maggie talks

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ganymedesclock · 6 years

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I was thinking about s5 and the development of Lotor and Allura’s feelings and thinking about one of the major reasons why I don’t think Lotor is manipulating Allura.

If you look at it... There is something of an imbalance of power here, but it doesn’t flow in Lotor’s favor.

It flows in Allura’s.

There’s really no positive sentiment between Lotor and Allura while he’s an antagonist in s3 and s4, and before she thinks she can trust him in s5. The closest is in s3e3 Lotor expresses respect for Allura’s capabilities and strategy, and she’s the one to outfox him on Thayserix.

In s5e1 and s5e2, we see that Allura is distant to Lotor, fairly aloof to his propositions. She’s doubtful of him, she’s clear about her position, and she doesn’t let him off the hook for any test he can’t pass. And she can do that- Allura commands an army at this point, she’s surrounded by allies in her bastion of power. Lotor, we see, very obviously doesn’t have the power to stop things he doesn’t want to happen... and while the duel with Zarkon ends, barely, in his favor, it’s clear that was never a gamble he wanted to take.

There are too many terrified, vulnerable shots of Lotor in both that fight and the exchange leading up to it. The confident expressions Lotor makes in s5e1 are rather practiced and stilted compared to his more casual demeanor in s3, and if you watch him closely in the scenes, you can see how tense, how flinchy, how hesitant he is- how repeatedly the camera emphasizes the thing he’s confined in and his inability to even stand that close to the paladins, who in every scene outnumber him.

And s5e2 contains the flashback via Haggar that shows us Lotor’s childhood, and it just frankly furthers the theme of Lotor feeling helpless, trapped, and afraid, the way he tries to disguise it, but the youngest, most ‘raw’ form of Lotor we see...

is just screaming and screaming and screaming. Helpless, terrified, miserable, in an environment overwhelmingly bereft of sympathy and comfort. He has a pillow and a single blanket and some kind of medical device studying him- no doctors, no nurses, no sign of Zarkon. As I’ve said many times before, this is a depiction of a neglected child.

That’s significant to me, even though Allura’s not privy to it, nor is it part of an interaction with her. Because frankly, if the point of this was to establish Lotor as a manipulator, Lotor as worming his way into Allura’s favor such that, in event of a twist betrayal we can go back and go “you were a snake all along, you asshole!” ...they’re dwelling an awful lot on Lotor’s helplessness and vulnerability. Lotor who doesn’t even celebrate his victory over Zarkon, but merely stares at his body grimly, and enters an emotional quagmire he only reluctantly pulls himself out of in the next episode.

And that thread only continues.

S5e3′s opening scene is when positive interactions between Lotor and Allura pick up in earnest. Allura’s powerful position hasn’t changed- if anything, she’s been handed a major victory with astonishing lack of sacrifice. None of her soldiers were on the field actually facing Zarkon- she, Lance, and Hunk did cover fire, but the only person who was injured and would require medical attention afterwards was Lotor.

This is our first soft interaction. Lotor, sitting, not engaging or speaking to anyone, and it’s not clear how long he’s been like this. His responses are terse, his posture is very closed. He’s not, in any real way, signaling Allura to take pity on him- he doesn’t seem uncomfortable as much as very, very distant, and we’ve seen enough of Lotor to know that’s a distress sign from him.

But Allura can tell he’s upset, and she’s willing to suspect maybe she misjudged his trustworthiness- so she speaks kindly to him, tries to hearten him. And then the rest of the team arrives, Lance and Coran both react potentially hurtfully (which Lotor doesn’t engage with) and Lotor pushes the concept of the Kral Zera, clarifying his concern.

Killing Zarkon hasn’t solved everything- it’s gotten them out of a frying pan and into a fire that they’re not ready for and Lotor’s tense, sure something bad is going to happen. And he’s basically absent for the rest of s5e3, picking up in...

S5e4.

At this point, it’s established the team’s at least listening to him. (They’re not agreeing with his stated importance of the Kral Zera and being there, per se, but they’re listening to him). We’d expect to see a manipulative Lotor increasing in confidence- starting to assert himself more over this new domain. And while Lotor is a bit peppier than he was after Zarkon, this is where we also see the start of an interesting thread for Lotor.

He hesitates. Repeatedly. First when clarifying the importance of Planet Feyiv, then again when he intends to show them the main contenders for the throne- he stops and asks Allura permission to use her computer. He’s hopeful about the idea of turning Voltron to an advantage, and when this leads the team to argue and split...

The hesitation and uncertainty Lotor seems to feel here are not designed to tug Allura’s heartstrings, or we would see him exclusively directing them to her, or emphasizing them to catch her attention. He isn’t.

Trend continues in s5e5- here’s where I see a lot of people metaing about how Lotor is manipulative, and I think that’s mis-attributing something that does start in earnest in that episode.

That is to say: Lotor, newly on the throne, becomes anxious for Allura’s approval.

Compared to how haughty, snappy, and guarded he was to everyone at the Kral Zera bar the paladins, when he greets the team at central command, he emphasizes the banner he erected and its significance. There’s an obvious, veiled “Do you like it? Please say you like it.”

He stresses the alliance so much, about the idea that they could have that golden age the original Voltron created again, this time without the nasty ending, and he puts so much emphasis on everything they could be to Allura. Yeah, this could be really manipulative if we had a lot of evidence it was swaying Allura all that much.

But Allura really doesn’t change her stance from where she started in s5e3, that, maybe she misjudged Lotor as an ally and she’s willing to at least hear him out as long as he seems reasonable. We’re getting, at best, some mild indicators of interest from her- threading her arm in Lotor’s while they walk together.

But just this, “I misjudged you, maybe you’re trustworthy, maybe you’re actually sort of interesting and charming,” is such a subdued and casual response to what Lotor is doing.

Because the person really dropping his guard big time, sharing all these personal details relatively quickly, opening up in these very vulnerable ways and, again, becoming very focused on, and needy for, Allura’s approval, is Lotor. The person who you could accuse of being naive in love, swept up in how fascinating they find this other person, putting themselves in a vulnerable place, is Lotor.

Lotor’s pretty clear in s5e5 that he needs Allura. That he thinks she’s special, that everything he’s worked towards, she’s the answer. She’s the key, if there’s a way to continue the tradition of Altean alchemy it’s her, that he needs to get her to Oriande so she can meet her destiny, and then, ideally, Miss Talented will still like him enough to lend him her special gift.

Lotor’s shocked by his own markings and has to rapidly derail and reevaluate his plans. He’s completely sure of Allura’s markings and takes it as an opportunity to talk up how special and magical Allura specifically is, like... his own face isn’t glowing right there.

And it’s also very easy for Lotor to give up on Oriande after being rejected by the White Lion, to say that it was meant exclusively for Allura. But while they’re there, we see, again...

The combination of Lotor making his personal feelings very open, and himself very vulnerable, to Allura, and doing so in such a way that he’s obviously not signaling her to comfort him. He draws away from her, he frames himself in this unflattering light.

There’s an obvious imbalance where Lotor’s very quick to emphasize that Allura’s so important, he needs her, he can’t accomplish any of this without her help... but the two times Allura says she’s grateful Lotor’s helping her, he’s obviously caught off-guard.

Sure, there are manipulative people who try to make themselves out to be a victim to their target, but I don’t think that’s what Lotor’s doing. Again, he has a lot of opportunities to signal Allura to comfort him, or try to tug on her sympathies, and while he’s nearly oversharing, we can see that things that would make Allura regard him in a positive light, like his Altean heritage, don’t come out first or even are given particular priority or emphasis.

Furthermore, the colony story actually sets up a parallel between Shiro and Lotor, that Lotor views himself as a failed hero. More than Zarkon’s fault for sweeping in and destroying everything, it’s Lotor’s fault that he wasn’t smarter, faster, had better resources to stop it from happening. People were counting on him and he let them down.

It’s very similar to how Shiro frames the Kerberos mission. Both times, they’re hopelessly outgunned, the empire is attacking for very petty reasons with nothing to gain. And Shiro emphasizes that he let down Sam and Matt Holt, that “my team was captured once, I’m not gonna let it happen again.” Shiro dwells on their fate... even though now that we have all three of them, we can see obviously that Shiro definitely suffered the worst of it. Sam was a little scraggly and scared but untouched physically, Matt has a single aesthetic scar, but both of them were seemingly disregarded as rank and file prisoners.

Shiro was the one who lost a limb, had his face carved open, was tortured and experimented on in a way causing him lasting negative symptoms both physical and mental. But he focuses very little on what he endured.

In that sense I have to think there’s a lot Lotor’s not telling Allura when he simply says he was “sent away” but lingers heavily on the destroyed colony. Especially because we’ve never seen Zarkon excuse someone from a post that he doesn’t like without immediately either killing them, or handing them off to Haggar, and given his disinterest in cultivating an heir, it’s pretty unlikely he’d hesitate to hurt Lotor.

This makes me pretty sure they’re not setting us up for a Prince Hans moment. Especially when much has already been made of Allura’s arc that she’s struggling to relearn to trust people. It makes no sense when the show puts so much importance on “we are always stronger together” and when Allura did everything right, and never gave Lotor any trust he hadn’t earned, to punish her for that.

I’ve said before I don’t think Allura and Lotor’s partnership is going to consistently work all the way through to the end- I think that we’re going to get something similar to ATLA’s Crossroads of Destiny, where Lotor breaks from the paladins and returns to being an antagonist for a while.

But not, I think, painlessly, and not in a way that he never cared. Because if anything, what we see is that Lotor’s more emotionally invested in this than Allura is. Which makes sense! If the implications of “relationship” and the way the writers talk about it suggest that what’s going on here is actually puppy love... Allura’s had crushes before, she’s had people interested in her before. It’s not particularly a commodity or novel. Again, her response to Lotor is fairly banal once she takes a shine to him, just, “well, you’re actually sort of charming, this is a pleasant surprise. And not bad-looking, now that I think about it.”

Lotor? We actively see that Lotor’s been systematically deprived connections. It’s hard for him to trust enough to connect with people. Allura being kind to him, in ways that she thinks of as only the proper response? Catch him by surprise, he’s unused to this. And it’s clear to him, Allura is such an amazing person, he really can’t do any of this without her. She’s living the culmination of so many of his personal dreams.

If anyone has an overly romantic, idealized view of the other person, if anyone here’s kind of swept off their feet by how amazing this all seems... it’s not Allura.

(And I know, I’ve aired the theory they’re cousins before, but if that’s not canon, I think it does seem like the writers are trying to signal some romantic tropes around Allura and Lotor)

#voltron legendary defender #vld #Lotor #Allura #readmore #I may be cautiously being persuaded towards the idea that canon is implying Lotura #and uh #a lot of the way Lotor talks about Allura would sure make SENSE if he's crushing really hard

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