#I did consider this more before I saw a post highlighting that punz and dreams tests on themselves happened after the staged finale

[bleue-flora]

What's often interesting to me, is Dream spells it out in the finale and people often still don't get it, so I thought it'd be interesting to see what he was actually referencing here. To see where it all started.

[24:27] Tommy: “That first war, me and Tubbo versus you–how it should have ended–why’d you take it?” Dream: “Tommy, you ambushed me and killed me. You stole all my shit! You tried ambushing me in a little cave–you don’t remember that? I feel like you just–your memory is just–gone.”

So here is the ambush Dream is talking about, where Sapnap and Tommy basically decide to just kill Dream and then kept all of his shit. [Death 1]

He gets killed again when he tries to take back his stuff. [Death 2]

Tommy kills him for fun right after he respawns with nothing. [Death 3]

Then after Dream gets his stuff back (via our boy Punz) and he takes the discs to get Tommy to stop, he gives Tommy back his items. But unsatisfied, Tommy goes after Dream, gets one of his discs back and hides it in the little cave. Dream tries to find it, while Sapnap and Tommy try to stop him. They are unsuccessful until, Tubbo brings them axes and they sneak up and corner Dream in the little cave, ambushing and killing him. Once again, taking all of his shit, (including, yes, the other disc.) [Death 4]

[27:58] Tommy: “Think about that, we could’ve been friends but no because you have to figure out the reason you have to get–”  Dream: “Yeah we could’ve but you–you ruined the chance of that long ago. It was you.” Tommy: “I ruined it?” Dream: “You ruined it!”

And I don’t think it’s unfair for Dream to say that in the finale, because for Dream it’s this stream early on, these moments that started it all. It’s these instances of of Dream getting murdered and robbed and made fun of over and over. Him, trying to not just make peace for everyone, but also reclaim respect and peace for himself. It’s Tommy chasing after Dream when he has nothing to kill him and rub it in his face. It’s Dream, even after all of that, giving back their items. It’s these instances of violence taken too far to the point they clearly pissed Dream off and didn’t care or follow his very simple request of just giving an apology and his belongings back that shape my distaste for Tommy and sympathy for Dream. It’s these moments that I feel like are gone from Tommy’s and our memory that highlight a different story.

[28:34] Dream: “Yeah, we could have been friends if you weren’t a little shit.”

#c!dream #dsmp #don’t worry I’m also covering what Tommy next to be fair… #dreblr #dream smp #dsmp finale #dsmp analysis #dsmp lore #dishing up lore #lore thoughts #c!tommy #interestingly enough it is actually tubbo who kills him here in the cave which is an interesting parallel to tubbo killing him in the final #c!tommyinnit #dsmpblr #c!discduo #discduo #c!dream and c!tommy #I sometimes like think that maybe these three or at least on of these deaths was canonical for Dream since it is plot relavent #and how interesting that would be to shape the story because then the gravity of it becomes that much more real #this of course only works if Dream and punz could later revive people back to fill lives which unclear if that’s true or not… #I did consider this more before I saw a post highlighting that punz and dreams tests on themselves happened after the staged finale

[stellocchia]

Here’s an analysis of the “Tommy’s Plan To Kill Dream” stream (part 2)

Continuation of this here (though it really isn’t needed to read that one to read this as I will be recapping a bit as I go): https://stellocchia.tumblr.com/post/645995202162671616/heres-an-analysis-of-the-tommys-plan-to-kill

This is the less intense part of the stream. They already talked about their plans to kill Dream (well, Tommy’s plan that Tubbo is VERY reluctant about and Ranboo agrees with). We’re moving into the gathering resources for the surveilance post part now. 

As always moving forward I’ll be soley talking about the characters and, for the dialogue, this are the respective colors: Tommy, Tubbo, Ranboo, Ghostbur.

Analysis under the cut as always

So let’s start off with the obvious: I absolutely love how protective Tubbo and Ranboo are of Tommy, I’m glad he has people who actually care in his life right now. We have various examples of this throughout the stream, but the first one is Tommy seeing a creeper, backing off immediatly (because of his hightened fear of pain, aslo known as algophobia apparently) and them immediately destroying the threat. Of course this is also because they don’t want Snowchester blown up, but it’s still sweet nonetheless. 

He also opens up about his algophobia right after to them and asks for some armour, which Tubbo actually provides.

“You’re wearing Dream’s armour, aren’t you Tubbo?” “Yeah” “Okay, I wouldn’t- I genuinely would advice not. Anything that that man’s fucking been too near you don’t wanna be using” Tommy’s fear of Dream by now is just all encompassing. It is also quite peculiar that he would say this while still using Dream’s trident (right? It’s still his right?), though that could simply be because he puts himself in the category of “things that have been too near Dream” by now and really can’t be affected more then he already has been, though this is just a theory. 

Same thing as with the creeper happens with a skeleton a couple minutes later.

“What happened? Holy crap” “Tubbo he beat me to death, he punched me to death” Bee duo starting to realize how serious Tommy’s situation is right after the scheleton encounter because Tommy was just genuinely panicking. 

“Pain it feels so much more real now, ‘cause I know what’s on the other side” “Surely doesn’t that give closure?” “No... no it gives quite the opposite Tubbo” And what a good choice that was narratively speaking! If death did give closure as us and the characters in the story themselves expected, with resurrection it would be meaningless. This way though, death has just as much narrative weight as if resurrection wasn’t there, which is what you want in a story. 

“On a side note for you two: Sam Nook great guy! Really lovely guy! Awesamdude is a bastard and does not deserve to be running that prison. If he let me die he failed his job” We can see that Tommy’s perception of the warden’s duty is strickingly different from Sam’s. To Tommy the top priority should be protecting others from Dream (even if it means compromising the security of the prison), while to Sam the top priority is keeping Dream locked up.

“My therapy update!” We all knew I had to include this one. It’s actually really great because: 

1) Him actually reacheing out to Puffy to get therapy means that he actually recognises that he needs help and is willing to ask for it, which is the first step towards healing

2) Him acting so happy about it is actually such a good message for the younger viewers to see that therapy is nothing to be afraid of and it’s not taboo

One more thing we had him wanting to remove his own statues as they’re a grim reminder of his death in a scene that is very similar to Tubbo on the 16th asking to remove the decorations of the day of his execution. 

“I don’t think it’s a particularly good idea to... try and kill Dream. I don’t know how canon lives work for you anymore, but I only got one left” As I pointed out in the other post the 2 main reasons why Tubbo is reluctant about the plan are that he’s on his last life and that he managed to build a life for himself with Snowchester and Ranboo that he doesn’t wanna loose. 

“Listen guys, I’ve experienced death now, it doesn’t matter how many lives I have left now, I’m NOT willing to go through that again” “Yeah that makes sense actually, that makes sense” This is an interesting question though of how many lives he re-acquired. We know Jack came back with 3 when he did it, but then again, normal rules don’t seem to apply to Jack Manifold. Also I wanted to include Ranboo’s quote there just because he’s literally been nothing but supportive and I love him for it. 

Also all 3 teens decide at once that ignoring the Egg will most definitely make the problem go away, because that has always worked in the past of course! (Also, honestly, good for them. Let the adults take care of something for once!)

“I’m not very god at smal- that’s not true” “Mhmm” “So eh... you guys heard The News?” “The news about what?” “The news about...?” “You know... what-what’s been happening...” “What’s been happening?” “About- about umm... George”  “About George? What happened with the Gogmeinster?” “Oh yeah, he got banned! Twice” “No no, he... he grew a third ear” “Really? Oh man!” “Oh yeah! I’ve seen a photo of that on instagram!” So, aside from this being so funny, the reason I’m highlighting it is because if there is one thing Tommy never struggled with in the past it was small talk. He could literally start blabbering with anyone about anything, no matter how dumb, with absolute confidence. Now he’s struggling with everything (both here and later in the Nether we have similar scenes for it). He is insecure about everything he says and socializing seems much harder for him. Regardless both Tubbo and Ranboo still go along with everything he says with absolute confidence, which seems to help him quite a bit. Considering that his biggest desire seems to be to be treated the same as he was before having them not pointing out his obvious insecurity (while still very obviously noticing it) is probably quite a big thing for him. 

“Why are Punz’s eyes red?” “Why? Oh- Where is Punz?” “Oh, that might mean we have to kill him, he might kill us on sight” “Yeah, he might try to kill you. Where are you Tommy by any me- where are you?” “Yeah, stay away from him” “No I can fucking take him man!” “No because you get scared of damage...” “Tommy... yeah” “I don’t get scared of damage!” “That’s not true” “Tommy where are you?” I loved this scene so much! Tommy didn’t actually even see Punz here, he only saw his face on the players tab, but the other two were immediately on the defensive. Also this is what I mean when I say that it’s not that they don’t acknowledge Tommy’s situation, they’re just trying to give him some normalcy, because, as soon as he is in any actual or perceived danger they’re immediately in high alert. 

“You’re like a living ghost” “I think that’s just called a human Tubbo” “You’re like a human” “That’s just called someone who is alive” “You’re treating me differently” So two things here: 

1) Tubbo still has a lot of confusion towards the whole revival process an that’s what he was trying to express. Ranboo was not particularly happy with his choice of words though and kinda got the defensive tone again

2) Tommy shuts down very fast any time any kind of change is mentioned. In this case the change being Tubbo’s perception of him.

That said they manage to recover the situation really fast with Ranboo making a comparison between Tommy and Jesus (they’re teenagers, what can I say?)

“Tubbo I feel like we’ve grown less close while I’ve been in prison and dead” “That’s ‘cause you’ve been gone for such a long time...” “Do you like me less?” “Nope!” “Well it feels like you do” “Well, that’s all in your head then!” “No” “Maybe you superpower is immagination” “Maybe my superpower is anxiety” Well Tommy, do my job for me, will you? But yes, these kind of thoughts (fretting about what others, especially your friends or family think of you) is extremely common for individuals suffering from anxiety disorders. Also what Tubbo did here was really important, even if it is the bare minimum, he still provided the ressurance his friend needed and that’s good of him. Also, while Tommy’s dependence on Tubbo does shine through quite a bit during this stream Tubbo does continuosly set up healthy boundaries for them (introducing and keeping firm on his relationship with Ranboo and admitting that they did grow apart a bit and he is still confused about Tommy for example), which is extremely good. Ranboo is also presenting himself as a viable option for emotional support, which will actually be good for Tommy in the future as this would mean breaking out of the habit that was ingrained in him of relying on one single person every time. 

“I’m not afraid of anything! The only thing I’m afraid of is, you know, waking up in the morning and...” “The- the thing your afraid of is waking up in the- are you alright? Are you- are you alright man? Are you good?” That’s concerning! But, again, very fitting with his newfound extreme anxiety he seems to be experiencing. Also ConcernedBoo, he just care about his friends and is worried. Pretty sure Tommy fits together with Michael and Tubbo in the circle of people he’s willing to protect.

Also, in case people were wondering, Ghostbur wasn’t handing out sugar because he was a fake Ghostbur, but just because Ranboo gave it to him and it was the only thing he had. Same goes for Tommy calling Ghostbur “Wilbur” and acting as if he was Alivebur and Ghostbur only correcting him after quite a while: it’s not because he’s fake, it’s because he gave permission to Tommy specifically to do so before. As I mentioned in the other post their relationship is complicated, but Ghostbur very much cares for Tommy a whole lot and he came back specifically because he heard Tommy needed help again, it’s not so weird he’d allow him to do stuff he doesn’t allow for others.

“Last time I spoke to you was like a few days ago...” Now, as some people pointed out this could simply be Ghostbur memory being sort of foggy and him not realizing how much time passed. But the OTHER theory is that he remembers talking to Phantommy (which we know happened thanks to Quackity’s lore, as they visited Glatt’s gym together). Honestly both are plausible (if the first one was true then meeting Phantommy may have simply made him upset and he could have forgotten about it, or perhaps he could have just forgotten that Tommy was dead). 

“Ghostbur do you want him (Wilbur) to come back? Because I- I don’t. I don’t think that I do ever” “It’s... I... umm, hm. The-the world needs structure and order and he- he was good at that. He did that-” “No. The world needs less villains and he was a villain if I’ve ever seen one” “But a- a villain is just- is- sometimes the line’s a little blurry. You could say a little blurry, a tiny bit, it’s like a- a villain it’s just a hero you haven’t convinced yet” Now, as much as I love Ghostbur he’s half wrong here. Let me explain: 

Simply put not all bad people can be redeemed for one thing (for example someone like Dream could never be redeemed because he hurt so many people in such horrible ways without ever regretting it), and secondly describing a villain as a “hero YOU HAVEN’T CONVINCED yet” puts the responsability of that persnon’s actions on their victims. As a matter of fact it’s most definitely NOT up to the ones who’ve been hurt to reabilitate the ones who hurt them (which is why Sam managing the prison now is considerable a conflict of interests). They shouldn’t even be forced to forgive that person if the person DOES change for the better. And here’s the crux of the issue: Wilbur hurt a LOT of people. He hurt Tubbo, he hurt Niki, he hurt Fundy, he hurt everyone who joined Pogtopia. And more then anything else he hurt Tommy. He was abusive and manipulative towards him and Tommy has every right to never forgive him. He has every right to be scared of him and regard him purely as a villain, because that’s what he was for him towards the end of his life. 

Ghostbur bringing him back in the hopes that he’s changed at all just means that, once again, the responsability of his possible reabilitation will be left entirely on the shoulders of the teens of the server and the same goes for if there is NO reabilitation. The destruction will, once more, be left for them to deal with. Tommy specifically will have one more person who abused him to deal with. Wether Wilbur will or will not ally himself with Dream doesn’t matter, because he was still a destructive individual on his own (despite of course being that way because of his own mental spiral, but that just makes him more sympathetic, it doesn’t justify his actions nor make them any less hurtful for those around him). 

Also Wilbur’s been dead for 10-12 years in Limbo time, I can’t imagine that doing wonders for his mental state...

There is a scene after that conversation where Tommy was talking about how being dead was, Tubbo asked a question about it and Tommy got upset. Of course the others got confused about his reactions since ha was already talking about, so, to clarify: the probable reason why anyone (aside from Ghostbur apparently) asking him questions about it upsets him is probably because of Dream. He mentioned multiple times now that Dream treating his death as a science experiment when he revived him was extremely traumatic for him. He hates the idea of being “just science” to the people around him. Ghostbur seem to be an exception to this, but that may be because Tommy seems predisposed to just trust Ghostbur more from an emotonal stand-point (perhaps because he reminds him of how Wilbur used to be before he spiraled). 

“I love monster energy” “Monster energy is kind of scary...” “Mhm, it’s for monsters...” Man the very low-key constant self-deprecation sure it’s kinda worrying... I really do hope that someone will help him with his very obvious sef-esteem issues at some point.

“He (Wilbur) spent a lot of time around a bad guy. He spent around a decade, you said, around Schlatt and Schlatt- Schlatt’s the bed guy, Right?” “I don’t think Schlatt’s the only bad guy” “Him and Eret are the bad guys, right?” Once again Ghostbur’s view of things is very naive and still very much stuck in the past. It’s been so long now since Eret betrayal, and they tried to redeem themselves since. Meanwhile it’s also been months since Schlatt died, and, even back when he was alive, he was far from being the only arguably bad person, Wilbur being right there along with him if we consider what his actions caused. And now we have Dream and the Egg, we have Quackity indulging in torture, we have the syndacate having a gestapo arc, we have Jack back on his goal of killing a teen. We can be sympathetic toward many of this people, but this doesn’t change the fact that they hurt others a lot or that their objectives or actions are objectively morally wrong in some cases. By now it’s honestly pretty hard to draw the line of who IS and ISN’T a bad guy.

“Cobble is GOOD, people don’t like it when I use cobble though...” Again, the usual self confidence is completely lacking. This is worse then post exile: back then he still had the full confidence to build an ugly cbblestone tower on Techno’s front lawn, now even using a bit of cobblestone makes him self-concious. 

Also apparently Sam instructed Sam Nook to keep Tommy specifically away from the prison for his own safety. Man’s still looking after him even if he probably won’t manage to do it directly for a while (at least until Tommy forgives him, if he does).

That’s pretty much it! It’s everything I’d consider important that I could find in the stream!

@mysweatymakerstudentworld

#tommyinnit #tubbo #wilbur soot #ranboo #ghostbur #tw abuse #tw manipulation #c!wilbur critical #I guess? #analysis #dream smp #/rp #my post #long post #though long ass post would fit better #I seriously just made a two parter on a block man roleplay huh? #god what is my life...