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#GOD THAT WAS A LOT OF THEORY
anderscim · 1 year
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welcome to wild theories with bagel
this one is… quite unlike the other posts as this is almost entirely speculation and probably has a lot of room for rebuttal
(it’s a theory after all)
this is mainly about teruko and her (possible) connection to the killing game.
take this with a grain of salt as always
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//drdt prologue, chapter 1, and chapter 2 spoilers
// blood warning from about the second half of the post.
also i go on a giant tangent here. so quick warning about that as well
i’m just thinking back to this motive secret:
“How could I even select what secret to be your motive? Just about everything you’ve done in your life is worth killing for. This killing game is all your fault.”
as of now, we’ve been told (by David) that this was Xander’s secret, but I highly doubt it. for me, this is mainly because when everyone was sharing who’s secret they had at the 2nd trial, David hesitated and asked to go last—there’s really no reason to do that unless David wanted time to think about what to do and/or fully process the situation before taking action (plus going last would give David the added benefit of knowing whose secrets are already revealed).
not only that, Xander’s bonus episode and secret quote seems to imply that his secret is actually the one Min has (“You’re constantly blaming yourself for the death of your parents and siblings. It doesn’t matter that it’s not your fault, just that you didn’t go with them”). Xander’s survivor’s guilt seems to be a major motif for his character, so logically it would still be plausible for his secret to be related to the Chariton incident and his guilt.
in that case, who’s secret does David actually have?
unfortunately, it would be quite difficult to try to deduce this through that last sentence (and i don’t think i have to explain why), so i decided to go back to the first sentence—which implies that whoever this motive is about has too many secrets that they don’t want to remember and/or discuss.
i can clearly recall one character that explicitly mentions this:
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i don’t recall anyone else saying something like this, but please correct me if someone did actually say something similar
additionally, each one of Teruko’s accidents that she’s survived as a result of her luck can become “secrets” that are worded to incriminate her and give her a motive to murder. after all, whoever wrote these secrets have done so in a way that paints the other characters in a bad light—there’s really no reason to exclude Teruko’s “secrets” from that treatment.
but if that were the case, is there a proper explanation as to why “this killing game is all [her] fault?”
as i’ve mentioned before, the secrets are specifically written in a way to incriminate the participants and taint their image. even Hu mentions this at one point:
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and to be completely honest, if someone were to explicitly write that a killing game was a specific character’s fault, it would probably be to throw the cast off. it would be extremely imprudent to specifically implicate someone as a potential mastermind otherwise. after all, that’s essentially putting the entire killing game at stake.
however, despite the fact that these secrets are written to implicate the cast, most of them do have factual evidence to justify some part of it.
here’s where i get into wild theory territory:
what if Teruko is indirectly responsible for the killing game, just not in the way that we’d think?
let me elaborate on how this could actually happen (and this is gonna get long):
think back to the opening scene of the prologue. whoever it was that was injured here, they seemed very… determined to end the killing game “all by [themselves].” or kill teruko.
// (pink) blood warning from here on out
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from here i’m going to pay a lot of attention to specific wording and such so please take this with a grain of salt
oh also this is gonna go on a tangent lmao
as seen here it seems that Teruko and the killing game are directly correlated to each other. this person here says that even if the killing game doesn’t end, Teruko must die—which seems to imply that her death could be a possible solution to the killing game, even if it is eventually revealed to not be one. after all, in a situation like this it wouldn’t make sense for this person to mention two seemingly separate things one after another if they weren’t related to each other somehow.
also this might just be me, but i just wanted to bring attention to this line:
“all by myself… i must end this killing game.”
this implies that whoever this person is, they want to end this killing game independently, by their own effort. specifically asking Xander to kill Teruko with no justification or reason why, in that case, doesn’t really make sense as it’s entirely dependent on the decision and whims of another person.
and besides, this may again just be me, but Xander mentions how he needs to “trust in [him]self” that killing Teruko would be worth it:
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this may imply that Xander attempted to murder Teruko out of his own instinct, and/or Xander deduced that the person who wrote that note to kill Teruko was himself. whether that’s because that note was in his own handwriting, or something from his memories told him so, i’m not sure.
also, recall the fact that some of the cast’s memories have been removed. for example, Xander doesn’t actually recall when he lost his eye.
someone else said this in a YouTube comment (that i unfortunately cannot find, but i’ll see if i can find the screenshot and put it here later), but—in that original prologue cutscene, there’s a fork under the person’s hand.
Xander’s eye injury, as we saw in chapter 1, has indents on it that look similar to claw marks. but based on those indents, it is actually plausible that those injuries were done by something similar to that fork (the fork in the prologue cutscene has four prongs, and the injury seems to have been caused by something that had four,,, uhh, prongs/claw bones). however this is purely speculation so this may be entirely wrong.
if this does happen to be correct, though, this could possibly imply that Xander was the person in the prologue cutscene. in that case, it is possible that Xander himself wrote the note to kill Teruko.
trusting “himself” to kill Teruko would, in that situation, actually make sense.
but as we know, killing Teruko is a challenge in on its own, whether that’s by attempting to incriminate her or attempting to directly murder her. she even declares this herself.
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actually, little side note: “no matter what” is seen in both this scene and the prologue cutscene—and they’re highlighted in both cases. just thought it was interesting because it gives off “unstoppable force meets immovable object” vibes lmao
though this could definitely be more important than it seems right now
this has been kind of true. in the first chapter, we saw Teruko almost getting killed multiple times, and her surviving all of them. first with Xander attacking Teruko, second with Min attempting to frame Teruko to ensure her own survival (and don’t forget about the detail of two people voting for Teruko for some odd reason—not sure why, but this could suggest that someone other than Xander was aware of this situation? that’s the current weak point of my theory, unfortunately). so as far as we can tell, attempting to kill Teruko proves to be very difficult as her luck carries her though each incident, even if she didn’t want to survive them. it almost seems like an impossible feat with the amount of luck she has.
the thing is, the fact that killing Teruko is nearly impossible adds to my personal theory: “what if the killing game is only running because Teruko is alive? what if killing her effectively ends the killing game?”
look i can explain it okay
as far as we can tell, Teruko actually has a lot of advantages compared to the others in the killing game:
her distrusting nature makes her less vulnerable to being lured into a trap
her luck. that’s all i have to say
MonoTV is giving her some advantages himself, which seems a little… suspicious.
okay on second thought let me elaborate on that last bullet
think back to ch2 ep2-3. MonoTV is the one that asked Teruko to do some chores for him in exchange for MonoCredits—which are essentially tokens that allow Teruko to get others to leave her alone.
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what’s interesting here is, MonoTV doesn’t set any restrictions on when she can’t use them (although that could be just because Teruko cut him off). in that case, couldn’t she theoretically use one if she’s about to get murdered or something?
and I also find it weird that MonoTV asks Teruko specifically (as well as follows her around) to do that chore. since there were so many other people that Teruko talked to when MonoTV was still following her, he technically could’ve walked up to anyone. therefore, it could be a possibility that MonoTV intentionally did that to give her an advantage.
just me? okay
anyways what i’m trying to say here is that the series itself seems to be gradually giving Teruko more advantages and opportunities that prevent her from being killed. although that could point to her being the mastermind, i kind of explained with the secrets why that seems unlikely.
but if my theory of “killing Teruko will end the killing game” proves to be correct, the true mastermind actually benefits from giving these added advantages to Teruko—it makes it harder for Teruko to be killed, which effectively keeps the game running.
which indirectly makes Teruko responsible for the killing game—by literally just being alive.
this. uh. was a lot of small speculation and details. that could probably be proven wrong.
besides we’re only mid-ch2 at the time of writing this
so feel free to refute me on ANY of these points—i will listen. for all i know i could be wildly wrong
and as always, take this with a grain of salt.
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anakinh · 3 months
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tell me, how does it feel? I have no home, so I wouldn't know uh... you still got parents, right?
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turtleblogatlast · 28 days
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[ cw: violence mention / death mention / ]
Will never stop thinking about how Leo, all alone in an endless void and being beaten again and again and again by the only other living thing around, still finds comfort in that space. The situation he was in was completely hopeless, and in any other circumstances he would not have escaped, at least not fast enough to save him from permanent (or even fatal) damage, be it physical or mental.
And yet, despite the bleakness of his situation, despite the agony and helplessness, all he needs is one glance at a crumbled photograph, one glance to remember his family, and that’s enough of a reason for him to smile.
Maybe that’s why his powers center around manipulating space - because no matter how much space is between them, no matter how dire his own situation may be, just the thought of his family, alive and okay, is enough to give Leo hope.
#rottmnt#rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles#rottmnt leo#rise leo#the prison dimension is horrifying on its own#add in a monstrous being that towers over you and has vowed to ensure your suffering?#god I can’t imagine how scary that is#Mikey opening the portal was a miracle because if he hadn’t managed it there#it’s really up in the air what could have become of Leo#personally I subscribe by the theory that you straight up can’t die in the prison dimension#so it’s a prison in all ways#but the thought of a Leo who manages anyway who adapts and continues to have hope despite it all…#Leo saying he’s nothing without his family is a double edged sword really#because the thought of his family alone is all he needs to live. to hope.#to smile#nothing without them…but they’re EVERYTHING to him#and maybe he doesn’t realize it but…the feeling is mutual#one thing too is that hope that comforts Leo so much is not just that#should he think his family needs help - that hope can turn into determination#I’m unwell about this family#actually on my point of their powers - I truly do think the abilities tie in not only to their personalities#but to their relationship to family and love in general#kinda like love languages in a way#Mikey with his chains and time abilities values being around his family the most - he wants them to experience living in the moment togethe#Donnie is someone who is 100% a gift giver to show his love - his constructs are exactly that aren’t they? gifts of his mind#Raph is someone who willingly bears the weight of the shield - he protects his family like the best big brother possible#and Leo - he goes off on his own a lot but his mind is constantly on his family anyway#like a sailor at sea no matter how far he travels the compass always point in one direction - and for him that compass points home#even if he can’t make it back - it’s still there#and that’s enough
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yournextflame · 2 years
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Elden Ring Sigils and Color Theory
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Elden Ring magic sigils sorted by color. Long post about their lore, meanings of certain colors and what it can reveal about the story of Elden Ring under the cut.
In this post, I will be going over why it is important to have a good understanding of color and meanings associated with color in the context of lore. In a game, color is used by developers for more than just drawing the world, it’s about creating visual language, a bridge between writers and players. There are countless articles about usage of colors in videogames, but in this post I will try to reverse-engineer the process and find out the meaning behind visual symbolism and combine it with game’s equivalent of heraldic symbols - magic sigils.
In Elden Ring magic sigils have been used to represent origin of sorceries and power sources of incantations, usually they give us hints what kind of deity is worshipped by people or who created the spell. They are an invaluable source of information on history on the Lands Between. I’ve been already playing with idea of color sorting when I did the same thing with remembrances, but sigils revealed even more secrets about story and lore. How about origin of life on the Lands Between? Origin of the outer gods? But let’s not rush.
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The first category, Blue Sorcery as I called it, already shows how color sorting method is supported by the game itself. With a help of descriptions we can place the sigils in the chronological order and track the change in design over the course of story such as replacement of flowing weapon in the sigil of Eternal Cities to Carian sword. Their sigils are incredibly similar to each other, solidifying connection between Nox and Carian royal family; both factions are associated with silver, sorcery, artifical life, moons and stars.
This talisman represents the lost black moon. The moon of Nokstella was the guide of countless stars (Memory Stone)
The young astrologer gazed at the night sky as she walked. She had always chased the stars every step of her journey. Then she met the full moon—and, in time, the astrologer became a queen (Stargaizer Heirloom)
Moons played a central role in Nox and Carian culture, the circle is a base shape for both crests, however, while Raya Lucaria sigil shares similar elements with Eternal Cities and Carian emblems (glintstone sorcerers are the descendants of astrologers, a fact that the Carians remain aware of, - Preceptor's Long Gown), this part was drastically redused in size and moved on top; the central place is taken by the star and framed by a pair of cuckoos. The hue of sigil is also significantly different from cold blue tones of Nox and Carians emblems, the warm greenish tint is close to the color of primeval current spells, which were banished once Rennala became rector of the Academy.
These scholars, who sought to master Carian sorcery, instead learned to see the moon as equal to the stars. This robe, in the hue of the full moon, signifies their heresy (Lazuli Robe)
(Cuckoo Greatshield) Boasting high magic damage negation, this shield is used to hunt down mages. "Our enemy is none other than Caria itself."
So far I’m not going to delve deeper in the roots of the conflict between Carian royal family and Academy of Raya Lucaria, it’s a mere demonstration of a method and how it works. But in next paragraphs I will use it as evidence for a few theories about worldbuilding.
(thanks for clarification about Malenia’s Crest, I rewatched fight on youtube and, yes, it’s a normal Raya Lucaria sigil)
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Golden incantations is the biggest group on the list, in a way I can say that history of the Lands Between is a history of gold. Here we can see a symbolical depiction of the Erdtree, the central piece of the game both in a metaphorical and literal sense; we can track how portrayl of the Erdtree changed during Marika’s age until it was replaced altogether by the abstract emblem of the Golden Order Fundamentalism. I have a lot of to say about this group and currently working on post with a more detailed investigation, so far I will touch only basics: such as origin of life gold.
Gold in Elden Ring is more than than shine metal or a color, it’s prima materia of the Greater Will, a force of unknown origin (it’s never called 神  god or an 外なる神 outer god anywhere in EN or JP script and before jumping to conclusion wait until I’m going to observe confirmed outer gods) which is responsible for the creation of Elden Ring. From the description of Elden Stars, the most ancient incantation in this category, and Elden Remembrance we can figure out keywords associated with the Greater Will:
It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring/It was the vassal beast of the Greater Will and living incarnation of the concept of Order (I’d like to point that it’s “Order”, not “The Golden Order”).
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(I believe we still can see remnants of the golden star in a form of meteorite ore in Divine Towers and Sealed Tunnel near Erdtree) 
In other words, the Greater Will is about gold, Order and everything Elden. However, a common mistake is to tie the Greater Will to the Golden Order, despite the name the latter is not representative of it, even more so... original gold from the golden star wasn’t yellow.
From dialogue with Sellen we can learn that stars are containing amber, but golden stars are kind of special:
Golden amber contains the remnants of ancient life, and houses its vitality (Sellen)
And Hyetta’s speech supports futher that the Greater Will is responsible for creation of life in one way or another:
…すべては、大きなひとつから、分かたれた 分かたれ、産まれ、心を持った
けれどそれは、大いなる意志の過ちだった だから、戻さなくてはならない
All that there was divided from the One Great. Divided, born and given heart. But it was a mistake of the Greater Will (Hyetta)
So, Miyazaki pretty much unitied theories about meteorites being consensually considered to be involved in the origin of life and primordial soup:
Meteorites could have been responsible for delivering the basis of life's genetic code. Analyses of three meteorites suggest that nucleobases, the crucial components of DNA, could have formed in space and then fallen to Earth to provide the raw material for the origin of life itself
For nearly nine decades, science's favorite explanation for the origin of life has been the “primordial soup”. This is the idea that life began from a series of chemical reactions in a warm pond on Earth's surface, triggered by an external energy source such as lightning strike or ultraviolet (UV) ligh
Now if we check descriptions of Crucible Aspects and Crucible Knights items we can find out that original gold had rent tint.
Holds the power of the crucible of life, the primordial form of the Erdtree. Strengthens Aspects of the Crucible incantations (Crucible aspects incantations)
This sword is imbued with an ancient holy essence. Its red tint exemplifies the nature of primordial gold, said to be close in nature to life itself (Ordovis Greatsword, the name itself is a reference to Ordovician Period, part of the Paleozoic era, a rich variety of marine life flourished in the vast seas and the first primitive plants began to appear on land)
Ancient Erdtree/Crucible emblem is slightly reddish too, however, the modern gold is more pure and yellow, the gold of the Golden Order. The sigil changed the color too and lost the root part just like the Elden Ring itself if we compare modern depiction with Farum Azula mural:
The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored
But a gold is a gold, even though it’s different, but as Turtle Pope said heresy is not native to this world and everything can be cojoined:
The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree. After all, this seal, and lighting itself, are both imbued with gold
Yes, the Greater Will governs everything what is golden. 
And yet, the young Miquella abandoned fundamentalism, for it could do nothing to treat Malenia's accursed rot. This was the beginning of unalloyed gold
I can already hear the raise of pitchforks from certain kind of Miquella fans, so let’s talk about outer gods and what exactly they are.
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With a surprising exception of emblem from the Scepter of the All-Knowing (Gideon, I have a few questions for you) all sigils in Red Group are assigned to the deities: outer/ancient god of Rot, outer god Formless Mother, Rykard’s immortal serpent and Fell God, who is bit tricky, it’s ambitious if  古い火の悪神 “ancient” is applied to the god or fire. The only confirmed outer gods, who didn’t made it here is an outer god of Deathbirds and Frienzied Flame. Considering theory that removal of the Destined Death from Elden Ring drained color from the god-slaying Black Flame and eclipsed sun of outer god of Deathbirds, I can suggest that original color of their sigils was red too. 
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Long story short: sigil of the outer gods and other unwelcomed deities are represented by red color and they are all related to the death, Formless Mother is about bleed, fell flame is burning, rot is decay, etc.
However, as stated in the description of Ordovis Greatsword, primordial gold of the Crucible had a red tint that was lost when Marika estabilished Golden Order by sealing away red Rune of Death; and this knowledge eventually leads to conclusion that...
Outer gods aren’t aliens. What a surprise.
They are natural powers that were screwed by the removal of Destined Death, when they got outed from the Golden Order. They are red tint of the primordial gold.
Once the concept of Death was banished from the Lands Between the elements and effects linked to it - death, decay, combustion, bleed became outer to the newly estabilished Order. There is a clear thematic difference between celestial Greater Will, who isn’t even presented on the Lands Between, and actual outer gods, who can be sealed or banished, more over there are no outer god of water, sunshine or happiness, they are all linked to the side-effects of death. When death was excluded from the Order, they were affected as well.
The thing is that gold in Elden Ring is a magical substance and changes the tint depends on the currently running Order, which is shown in the endings when Golden Tree (黄金樹 that’s how Erdtree is called in JP) acquires different hue. It’s another overlooked element of visual storytelling.
This Golden Order is something that the Elden Ring may have once represented, but not directly. It’s more about how you apply those rules and how you enforce them on the physical world and what effects they have on it, - Miyazaki in interview to gamesradar
(Golden Order isn’t direct representation of the Greater Will/Elden Ring as it was said by Miyazaki himself, it’s only one temporary set of rules)
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Elden Ring consists of runes and even newly discovered mending runes (concepts) can be added to the system (regression is the pull of meaning; that all things yearn eternally to converge) ot removed and the gold will respond to it by changing the color and reshaping reality according to the Order (causality is the pull between meanings; it is the connections that form the relationships of all things). Elden Ring - Rune of Death = yellow gold and banishment of ancient gods, who were associated with death, Elden Ring+mending rune of a choice=see example aboive.
For futher evidence that gold changes metaphysical properties and in the current state (Golden Order) preserves things from not only from dying, but decomposing too, I want to bring a few descriptions:
Fresh beast blood, glinting with gold. Material used for crafting items. Found by hunting carnivorous beasts.This glimmering blood never rots or decays ( Beast Blood)
Someone's excrement. It has a golden tinge. Material used for crafting items. Gold-tinged excrement is a highly stable substance; it doesn't dry out, nor does it lose its customary warmth or scent. For better or for worse, it remains as it is (Golden Dung; I can’t believe I’m using description of literal sh/t to prove my point)
However, from what we know only Rune of Death was sealed, and while outer gods’ influence was seriously weakened, it still existed. This is why Miquella abandoned Golden Order and was working on development of his own gold, even more pure and untainted, before he got mohgged:
Unalloyed Gold Needle: An intricately crafted needle of unalloyed gold. A ritual implement crafted to ward away the meddling of outer gods, it is thought capable of forestalling the incurable rotting sickness.
Now let me clarify: community’s favorite boogieman “influence of the evil alien outer gods/the Greater Will” isn’t a thing in a sense that there is a group of invaders from the outer space trying to enslave the Lands Between. Even thought  外なる神 is used in Japanese media culture for lovecraftian beings, we should remember that history is fabricated by the Golden Order in Marika’s favor; "outer gods” are alien to the current Order”. Same goes for the influence of the Greater Will, it was never about mind-control or whatever was projected onto it, the influence of the Greater Will is simply how Order and gold are changing course of the nature. 
Last thing I want to add is that influence of the outer gods isn’t always about destructive powers (Order of Rot is about decay and rebirth), but I’ll leave it for a dedicated post.
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In Mixed Group I put sigils with unique or unknown colors.
In my first draft Dragon Communion was placed in the Red Group for the intense hue of sigil, but upon futher research I decided to move it here. The power of Dragon Communion incantations doesn’t stem from any patron god or the assigned star (unless I missed something); they are scaling from arcane, an inner force of the caster. 
Violet is an interesting choice for Gravity sigil because this color, albeit with the less intence hue, is used for sleep status and associated items. 
I like how yellow color of Frenzied Flame is similar to the gold of the Greater Will, carrying the theme of duality, yet the shape of the sigil is distorted and assymetrical. In fact, designs of the ancient sigils usually is far less complex than intricate shapes of newer ones (with a few exceptions). Just to be clear, even though influence of the Flame of Frenzy can be cleared by Miquella’s needle, the game never calls it an outer god. It’s a matter of semantics, but I guess that unlike crew from the Red Group it was never booted from the Order since Chaos and Order can’t naturally coexist, but there are a lot ot of to speculate about, considering drastic changes in Frenzied Flame quest and lore.
Golden star in the centre of Bestial sigil reminds of Cinquedea dagger (Short sword given to high ranking clergymen of Farum Azula. The design celebrates a beast's five fingers, symbolic of the intelligence once granted upon their kind), which shows beast’s arm holding golden slab.
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So, Death spells. I believe that both Black Flame incantations and Death Sorcery of Deathbird outer god were affected by confining of Destined Death.
The black flame could once slay gods. But when Maliketh sealed Destined Death, the true power of the black flame was lost
Storied sword and treasure of Castle Sol that depicts an eclipsed sun drained of color.The eclipsed sun, drained of color, is the protective star of soulless demigods. It aids the mausoleum knights by keeping Destined Death at bay. Mausoleum Knight Armor: The wing-shaped ornaments on its back evoke the Deathbird
And, as I’ve been already pointing in a different post, death of Godwyn brought back forgotten death sorcery that almost ceased from existance during age of immortality, but was rediscovered
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Death in the Lands Between is incredibly complex subject and deserves a series of posts, even though I believe there should be DLC because so far all lore related to it seems to be incomprehensible.
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Unmarkered sorceries don’t have background sigil, but they all share something in common. They originated from the Mountaintops of Giants:
Zamor Ice Storm: Ice sorcery of the Town of Zamor.Strike the ground with the staff to create a freezing tornado. Charging enhances potency. Cloaked in icy tempests, the knights of Zamor have challenged the Fire Giants since ancient times.
Briars of Sin : An aberrant sorcery, discovered along with red glintstone by those exiled to the north for their crimes.The Academy reviles this sorcery, which draws its power from faith
Founding Rain of Stars: The eldest primeval sorcery, said to have been discovered by an ancient astrologer. A sorcery of legendary status.The glimpse of the primeval current that the astrologer saw became real, and the stars' amber rained down on this land. Sword of Night and Flame: Astrologers, who preceded the sorcerers, established themselves in mountaintops that nearly touched the sky, and considered the Fire Giants their neighbors.
Another interesting details to consider is that they are all in some ways are unwelcomed or straight up heretical. It reminds me of relationships between Golden Order and remnanats of the Crucible. Aberrant sorcery is a mark of sin, primeval current was banished and cold sorcery is veiled in occult mystery:
The snowy crone taught the young Ranni to fear the dark moon as she imparted her cold sorcery.
I guess Ranni’s secret mentor is called snowy crone for a reason.
That’s being said, everything I wrote is a subject to change as DLC may reveal more details or I will reconsider some parts under futher research. But overall I think it was an interesting experiment.
読んでくれてありがと
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mebis-art-dump · 3 months
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There's a critical lack of maggot Godseeker in the fandom
(unmasked Godseeker speculation woooo)
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For reference:
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tears-of-taelia · 3 months
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This day still terrifies me. To my core. With the strange weather that happened before, I expected something to occur. I could have never predicted the magnitude of that event. I assume you're here to wake me up then? You want us to face that evil again? I'm… We're afraid... Of everything. Of everyone. I don't know what I'm supposed to do! WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK!
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pockykierra · 7 months
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I feel like a lot of people look over the beginning of Episode 2 because of the whole “A PERMIT???” haha so silly thing, but like-
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This is some TOP level projection right here - and it's sad. I mean, this, I feel, is one of the few times we get to see into the mind of a Crowley still reeling from his Fall and, more importantly, God's hand in it. There are a few times we get to hear Crowley's thoughts on what happened when he Fell but none of them really ever reference it in relation to God specifically ("I only ever asked questions", "I never asked to be a demon", "It's Lucifer and the guys!"). It's things God is technically to blame for, but he doesn't really call Her out.
There are a few times he talks about God's hypocrisy and all that, but this is, I think, the first time we see his true feelings on how it felt to be forsaken by God.
The first sentence is particularly intriguing. "You should know why you're about to die." Was this perhaps a speech that Crowley received when he was in Hell? Or, maybe, was it the speech he wished someone would have given him? An explanation for why he suddenly was no longer an angel? Something to comfort him in the wake of God abandoning him?
Either way, I think this speech is very, very telling. I think the Crowley that we see in Season 1 draped over his chair and begging for a sign has softened ever so slightly - but this Crowley? This Crowley is still very much hardened and angry about his fall. Questioning why it happened, why God abandoned him, why She gave him up to be destroyed.
But he can't get those answers.
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utilitycaster · 1 year
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The thing about the commands from the gods is that actually, neither makes what I'd consider a threat of retaliation:
The Changebringer: "Do not turn from this road, for only shadow and solitude awaits behind."
The Dawnfather: "Forsake these gifts, ignore our charge, and be abandoned."
(CritRoleStats' livetweets have the full text for each, for those without Twitch to verify)
To me, this doesn't sound like "do what I want or I'll leave you"; it's "fight this existential threat or I will literally no longer be able to grant you powers or answer your questions, if indeed there's enough of a world left for you to have survived to realize this."
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funtime sunshine
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good-soupmens · 9 months
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Ik the good omens fandom has different takes on God as a character, but I like the idea that she DOES have an ineffable plan, and Heaven is doing their absolute worst job carrying it out.
Most angels never talk to God, and they're usually selfish, they don't do the right thing (only what they're told), and it's even possible they're working under a corrupt power (like the Metatron). I like that theory because Metatron IS the barrier between God and the angels. He could easily lie to them and change plans, and we the audience know that "friendly old man metatron" swindling Aziraphale is not what he seems.
But from the beginning, we see inconsistency. Crowley falls from heaven after asking questions/hanging out with the wrong group while Aziraphale is allowed to lie about the flaming sword and change Heaven's plans. God can see how much he cares about humans and the earth by his actions (Crowley being the same), which makes me think that him getting away with it is intentional, not inconsistent or neglectful. ESPECIALLY if Aziraphale and Crowley run heaven and hell respectively in season 3. They have the power to change things, just like they stopped the world from ending the first time. I think Crowley and Aziraphale ARE the ineffable plan.
Their love could bridge the gap between opposing forces in a way that it couldn't if they were both angels. After all, both heaven and hell think they're doing the better thing while they're both not. Crowley and Aziraphale are the best of both sides.
If bringing them together was God's plan, it'd be a powerful story for queer Christians!! A lot of us have been hurt by the church, but we hold on to God's love, which doesn't fail us. We stay in a religion with a history of fighting queerness not because we're all brainwashed, but because we wholeheartedly believe in a God that loves us. Sometimes I see good omens' heaven as an analogy for toxic churches, and I'd love nothing more than for Aziraphale to realize heaven is working against God. Not to mention God using a gay couple to save the world/save heaven from corruption?? I'd kill for that storyline
Secondly, Aziraphale's devotion wouldn't have been for nothing. If God was awful the whole time, it defeats the times he and Crowley reached out, and the moment in the GOs1 finale where Crowley says, "what if you're going AGAINST God's ineffable plan?" to Gabriel and Beelzebub. (It'd almost defeat the purpose of her being the quirky narrator following their story, too.)
Even Crowley, never fooled by "heaven is all good" calls for God in his time of need ("God listening? Show me an ineffable plan.") (Possibly when he reaches to the sky in order to stop time) (Calling for God before Satan in the burning bookshop) (Looking up and muttering "God" after realizing Aziraphale is going to leave him in s2)
Lastly, after the trauma that both Crowley and Aziraphale went through, with Crowley falling and Aziraphale coming to terms with heaven's corruption (and both being mistreated by their side) it'd be nice to have been for a reason. They have every right to grieve and be angry for all that they went through, and the centuries that they weren't supposed to love each other, but I believe the series will end on a positive, sweet note, like the rainbow after a storm.
Like Job, they're losing almost everything (their relationship as it was, the bookshop, and the life they carved out), but they have each other. I think they'll lose everything to save EVERYONE, and in the end, the reward will top the pain. No holding back, no forces hunting them down, just them together after a PAINFULLY long time with everything they'd wanted.
We know that God doesn't get around to answering many questions, but her speech to Job was in part to say "trust me"
She laid the foundations of the earth. She made every living thing. Job couldn't see past the destruction of his life, but she has a plan. Job is a valuable human being, but he doesn't have the power and knowledge of God. God will share her plan when he can make a whale. Otherwise, he can trust that "Most things are fine in the end"
*Aziraphale voice* That's ineffable!
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he's had a long day of dealing with marcus' shenanigans
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ooo i love it (viciously despise) when my brain wants to do five different things at once, it's So funny (i need to bite concrete)
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shitpostingkats · 8 months
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I know they're not gonna do it but please imagine we get to the xyz dimension and the refugees are getting aid from astrals and barians and everyone rightly flips out and Shay is like "What, do you guys not have aliens in your dimensions? :/"
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daz4i · 7 months
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in regards to this poll. i had another thought
let me clarify, since people seemed to latch onto cthulhu-like mythos and tentacles and big monsters in the tags of my previous poll. when i say cosmic horror, i mean the whole idea that there is a being we as humans can't even comprehend, that can harm us on a large scale and probably not even care about it
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laniemae · 1 month
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Not gonna get into danganronpa another spoilers because this whole scene is something else that I’m still processing but I absolutely love this line. Like to bring up milgram I think this is an idea which can reflect on lots of the characters as well. The idea of basing your entire existence off of a certain thing/person/ideology and then for something to happen that completely destroys that. Your entire person has been stripped away and just what’s left? You can’t comprehend your own existence or meaning without that specific attachment and you start to question all of your actions based off that…
I can only really think of John, Kotoko, and Es here (and possibly Amane and Mikoto to an extent). And John bases his life off of Mikoto, Kotoko upholding justice, and Es being the warden.
John’s idea of his whole existence and reason for being is Mikoto. It’s the only reason he believes he exists and if he were to fulfill his role he’d “disappear” as he would be completely worthless without him. John tries to repress and ignore his humanity and reduce himself as a tool to protect Mikoto and that’s all he can see himself as. But now Mikoto’s starting to not deny his existence and feels pure hatred for everything about him. And what will happen to John, when the person he’s dedicated his entire life to and desperately wants praise from, denies his existence? What will he be but some worthless existence that is only a burden, to him.
Kotoko. An ideology of upholding justice and punishing evil that has completely overtaken her. She has pushed herself into a role of a “fang” for justice, protecting the weak and persecuting evil. But even so matter how much she tries, she knows her goals are unreachable. She denies relationships and attachments to other people based on this ideology. Kotoko admits that she does feel attachment to the prisoners, but has to deny them in order to fulfill the role as a tool. And believes that pain and violence is necessary to achieving a greater good. Trying to deny any regret because wouldn’t it be easier to believe you’re entirely in the right? She latched onto Es, believing them to be similar as the warden who carries out judgement on wether the prisoners are forgivable or not. But now, Es has denied her whole ideology, her whole existence due to the pain she’s caused. Kotoko wants to believe that what she did was right and that Es, another enforcer of justice would accept her, because that’s how it is.
And Es… they’re the warden of the prison. There’s nothing more to them than that they believe. Es has no memories of their identity or past before Milgram and immediately latched onto the identity given to them, of being the guard. Es took this role as their entire identity, an extension of the milgram system in order to interrogate and judge prisoners. I think Muu put this best.
“Warden-san, we call you "warden" because that's what you are, right? And I was assigned the role of prisoner, but that doesn't mean I'm now nothing but a prisoner at heart, too. After all, I'm still me.”
Es has an unstable sense of identity, to the point they latched on to the first thing they were given in order to give themselves a purpose and a meaning for existence. And Kotoko calling them “imperfect caused them to question their identity. But as the story progresses Es will probably begin to learn about the audiences control and the truth behind what they assumed to be their verdicts. That their will never was 100% their own. Who knows what Es’ past was, but eventually they’ll likely have to tackle it and their whole identity, the warden, the arms of milgram, is gone.
gonna think about Mikoto and Amane here as well. Mikoto, although may not seem to be as first, focuses his entire identity around other people. He’s the friendly sociable guy who’s easy to chat with. But that’s all he believes he should be, I guess. As perhaps this mindset is upheld by an inherent fear of other people rejecting him, so he focuses all his attention and identity on being a social person. He’s never truly friends with people, as perhaps that would be “too close” and open up the possibility for danger. He doesn’t completely deny his identity like the others, but he molds and shapes it in a way that is acceptable to others. He likes what everyone else likes and does what everyone else does so the fear of being rejected for being different won’t hurt him. But now he’s stopped denying John’s existence and his DID, believing himself to be crazy, and to be completely rejected from other people, his entire sense of identity to an extent. And especially with John scaring other people off with the mindset that will help Mikoto, he has now been completely distanced from everyone else and now has to come to terms with himself, but not the ideal persona he put on to be acceptable to other people.
Amane is a more different case as she in a way has rejected that idea, but not completely. Growing up in a cult it’s very likely that she was always conditioned that she was just a servant for god. That all the good things she did were actually god blessing her and all the bad things a fault of her humanity, herself as a person. She is in a unstable relationship with the whole submitting her personhood to her religion, as she sacrificed her ideologies in order to help a cat. But at the core, that wasn’t about herself and her identity, rather a focus on the cat’s life. Amane’s murder was her will. Rejecting everything and fighting for her life in direct opposition to what she has been taught her entire life and how her identity should be, a rejection of that and a glance into “herself”. But once again, this murder wasn’t entirely self motivated. She’s still broken enough that she can’t fully grasp herself as a person besides god and religion. And a large cause of her murder was out of the death of the cat, rather than simply protecting herself. Amane still slips back into the belief that her personhood is entirely dedicated to god. As she tried to convince herself and Es that the only reason she killed is because they deserved religious punishment and she is in the right for carrying out god’s will, once again denying her personal reason for doing so. Reducing herself to “we” on behalf of her religion, that this isn’t herself anymore. Amane is in a limbo between rejecting her personhood for god, but at the same time rejecting the suffering she’s been through in order to save “herself”. Amane’s case is so interesting, as there’s no clear answer of what she believes in here, and it is truly fascinating.
#milgram#Milgram theory#milgram analysis#amane momose#mikoto kayano#john kayano#john milgram#kotoko yuzuriha#es milgram#uhhhh this was meant to be a quick analysis how did this turn into an exploration of the identities of 5 characters#And comparing it to a scene from dra which focused a lot around the loss of someone’s beliefs completely destroying their identity?#May analyse that scene directly because the whole philosophical and psychological concepts coming into play there is just soooo cool#and man I was kinda figuring out stuff as I was writing this but like I said it’s so interesting how Amane isn’t completely dedicated to go#Like the other characters I mentioned who have dedicated their whole identities to something#And Amane’s at the struggling between her true self and her perfect religious self#But perhaps she doesn’t entirely realise this conflict going on within#Which is interesting as a realisation of their identities would probably cause the other characters to lose it#But Amane it’s coming to her in a different way#She’s so strong uahhhahhajajshshshs#Tw cults#Ok now thinking about this more I’m starting to see this whole ideology apply to other dra characters as well#Man this is just so interesting#Like Kinji although having nowhere near as bad of a situation of amane was in a way forced to repress his emotions his entire life#Due to religious reasons and to devote his life to god and reject personhood#Surprisingly he’s actually not a bad person but still is very stoic and avoids other people due to being taught those values#And kinji’s a whole parallel to Tsurugi so this would be really interesting#I would talk about Tsurugi here but this is primarily a milgram post so for everything he’s like kotoko with a dedication to justice#But handles it in a very different way#His story is just way to long to analyse now#But hey this is an invitation to play (or watch bc downloading the game is hard technically) danganronpa another
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whoviandoodler · 1 year
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one of the things that makes mdzs SUCH a great story is the fact that it's a tragedy with queer protagonists, but their queerness isn't the cause or the center of the tragedy. it's not even related, really. it's a story about love and loss and wrong and right, about what we owe each other and what we owe ourselves, about how you can find joy even amidst chaos and grief; its complexity and tragedy is what makes it so profound and touching. sure, there's 'casual' queerphobia in the story, but with everything else going on, it's not really relevant- wwx's mostly like, 'oh, i like guys? i like lwj? i love lwj? fuck, what if he doesn't love me back? am i being presumptuous to think he returns my feelings? what do I do now?' followed by 'wait, he loves me back??? we're getting married IMMEDIATELY', and that whole attitude is very refreshing because sometimes you just want to read a queer story that isn't about queer suffering but that's still incredibly miserable, and i think we as a queer community deserve it
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