#Buffy soul lore

[lobsterfork]

i unapologetically, unironically love crush. like it tries so hard to be anti-spuffy but david fury was a FOOL to think that the line "I'm drowning in you, Summers" wasn't going to irreparably alter my brain chemistry. that Spike almost falling over himself to open a door for Buffy wasn't going to make me positively unhinged.

literally the only thing i don't like about this episode is fury patronising the audience with his ham-handed, puritanical Hunchback analogy.

but it's fine, 'cause buffy didn't do the reading.

#you tried so hard david and you just kept digging yourself deeper #like... maybe controversial but this episide is up there with something blue for me #sometimes i still gotta watch through hands over my face #but i love love love it #dawn speaking on the entire audience's behalf #and playing the role of someone who wasn't traumatised by angelus and doesn't have an (understandably) polarised view of soul lore #“i don't think spike's icky” #you're right dawn and you're right to say it #spuffy #buffy #spike #spike btvs #spike x buffy #buffy the vampire slayer

[anyachristinaemmanuellajenkins]

The Whirlwind + Identity

BtVS 2.07 // AtS 2.07 // AtS 2.09 // AtS 2.10 // BtVS 3.10 // BtVS 2.21 // BtVS 2.17 // BtVS 2.21 // AtS 2.05 // BtVS 2.10 // BtVS 7.17 // BtVS 5.07 // BtVS 5.22

#OBSESSED with buffyverse soul lore literally cannot stop thinking about buffyverse soul lore #it's my pepe silvia #btvs #btvs meta #btvs script #buffy the vampire slayer #ats #btvsedit #atsedit #darla ats #angel btvs #drusilla #spike btvs #my edits #my meta #1k

[hersterical]

At this point I’ve decided that losing/gaining a soul affects each vampire differently in unpredictable ways. Practically no one in universe has noticed this and so no one has tried to figure out why.

Some things that I personally feel like can be applied to all vampires, though to different degrees of intensity and which manifests themselves in different ways are: lowered inhibitions and sense of right and wrong, increased animal instincts, and the psychological effects of no longer being even the same species as a human

I would have been able to have done further research on the matter if SOMEBODY (I’m not going to be naming names but it rhymes with ‘Wofessor Palsh’) hadn’t decided to Frankenstein herself up a son and effectively shut the whole program down

#not sure why I became an initiative oc at the end there #sorry for soul lore posting #buffy the vampire slayer #btvs #angel the series #ats #spike btvs #angel btvs #angel ats #darla btvs

[disco-tea]

Alright I’m going to run my mouth and dredge up soul lore again and say some things that's probably gonna annoy some people but I genuinely do think it’s true: basically trying to adhere to the show’s original soul lore is pointless and a disservice to every single vampiric character that’s not Angel. Because the thing about soul lore is it's simply a loophole for Joss Whedon’s original black-and-white mythology which was that he didn’t want complicated vampires. He didn’t want vampires with sympathetic/human traits or internal worlds. He didn’t want “Anne Rice crap” he wanted grrr arg scary monster vampires with cardboard personalities who aren’t human at all anymore. The only reason soul lore exists is because the network pushed him to add a vampire so he slapped a soul on angel and basically all the soul was ever supposed to be was a lil sticker that says Angel gets a pass to be a multidimensional character. That's it. And that’s fine and well so long as Angel remains the only reoccurring vampire in the show with any character development. But of course, it's pretty hard to do a good show full of monsters where you never actually tell us about who the monsters are or what their motivations are besides monologuing and villainously twisting their mustaches. That's what happens in season 2 when they kill the anointed one. By killing him they effectively kill the old flimsy archetype and after that we start seeing vampires with more traits and personalities and memories from their human life. Boom, out goes Angel’s soul and then eventually, Angel as well. Graveyard cemetery doornail dead. Double dead. Dead squared. And you know what, here’s the controversial part, I’m just gonna say it…even with the established soul lore…they probably would’ve let it go and actually amended it if Angel had stayed dead. But he didn’t. Angel came back with his soul and got his own show where he is the main character and that simply magnified the problem with soul lore because Angel has to be a very special boy because otherwise why are we focusing on him?? Why is he the main character if any old vampire can grow a personality and a conscience? And honestly they probably also wanted him to be the “one vampire in all the world.”Buffy but a Dude. And therein lies a huge source of back-and-forth and continuity errors and the writers having to cling to the OG lore even though the story has grown beyond it. Angel is gone from btvs and the growing narrative and overall character/lore development demands that you have to take a step back and look at the shades of gray, but also remember you can never be anything without a soul because Angel is on right after this. The universe shows us that vampires can grow and change and have a full continuity of self and that they are more than just simply the shells of humans with a demon inside, but tells us otherwise because of outside aspects. That's why I think trying to rigidly adhere to soul lore is pointless, because its not a well thought out established rule of the universe, its a massive continuity error that was never properly corrected and continued to mess up and confuse the universe because the creator stubbornly wrote himself into a corner from the start.

#buffy the vampire slayer #btvs meta #soul lore #anti angel

[girl4music]

I think what gets me most is the “I am a demon” and “there’s a demon inside me” contradiction. Spike owns up to his own evil behaviour. Angel doesn’t. Spike always owns up to his own actions and choices but yet he is not the vampire seeking a redemption.

Spike takes accountability.

Angel says it’s someone else.

Sure Angel feels guilty for the things that Angelus has done but the problem is it’s not HIM that did them. So how can it be a redemption story? It isn’t. It’s an absolution story. So long as the man and the monster are separated, it cannot be a mission of redemption.

If Angelus was the one who was making amends for the things he has done… then it would be a redemption. But that never happens. Angelus doesn’t give a shit. He revels in the damage and pain he causes. He loves it. There’s no morality in the man. He is just a monster through and through. Nothing else.

I do not understand how a guy who is a whole ass other fucking person has to pay the consequences for some other guy’s actions and choices. It’s not his problem so it’s not his fault. He just makes it that way.

The only reason ‘AtS’ works is because Angel feels responsible for Angelus’ 500+ years of carnage but he shouldn’t because Angel is not Angelus and vice versa.

Spike on the other hand chooses to be ensouled even when soulless. It should be impossible for him to feel any remorse whatsoever. He shouldn’t be capable of empathy or free will if he isn’t capable of selfless love.

But that’s just not how it works with him at all. Does the chip train him to be this way? No, I don’t think so because even before that he still can go against his own demonic nature. Yes, for selfish reasons but nevertheless… he shouldn’t be able to choose at all. His evil demon should control and rule him just the same as it does with Angelus. There should be no difference. No leeway whatsoever. No morality.

That’s if the lack of soul is the factor.

It’s clearly not.

He just acts like a selfish and warped person with a screw loose every now and again. He doesn’t act like the devil incarnate has taken over his entire identity.

Redemption truly only works when you’re the same entity when evil as you are when good. If you are literally a different entity… then it doesn’t and it can’t because “I don’t understand why I did this” and “I didn’t do this but I feel responsible” are not the same.

You can feel responsible for something someone else has done but that doesn’t mean that you should. If you did literally do them and have actively stopped doing those things out of your own volition - different story.

It has to be your choice. You can’t be compelled. Redemption doesn’t and cannot work that way.

This is the fundamental flaw of ‘Angel the Series’.

Separating and differentiating the man from the monster by way of “he has a conscience now”.

HE doesn’t have a conscience. HE just has his identity back. He’ll lose it again when his “conscience” goes bye bye. How can THAT work as a redemption story?

You can say you’re not that person anymore. But that’s not a literal statement. You are still that person but you’ve chosen not to be. You’ve chosen to change. If you can’t choose. If you’re forced into changing … then it’s not on you because you’re not that person.

When the soul is a factor - it’s not choice. It’s compelling. It’s forcing the person to change. This would be a problem for both Angel and Spike if Spike did not choose to change while he was soulless. The very reason he gets and now has a soul is the very same reason why he doesn’t actually need one. He fought for his soul so he could be a better person.

He already was simply because chose to fight for it. Angelus never ever makes that same distinction. Ever. Angel does. But Angel shouldn’t have ever had to because Angel is literally an entirely different entity. He shares his body with a demon. He isn’t that demon.

His hands drove the car but “he” was not the driver.

So it’s not a redemption because “he” doesn’t need to be redeemed. “He” is not the one that needs redemption because “he” is not the one that is evil.

#buffy the vampire slayer #angel the series #angel #angelus #david boreanaz #spike #james marsters #soul lore #vampire #demon #redemption #contradiction

[oveliagirlhaditright]

At this point, I honestly do think that Angel and Angelus are the same person (I'll probably make a more detailed post about all this later).

Like, the whole Angel/Angelus debacle--and us fans asking whether they're the same person or not--is because the show first tells us that a vampire is not the human person left behind with a demon in them: instead, the demon takes over the human's body--almost possesses them, if you will--and may have the memories and even the personality of the person they inhabited, but really isn't that human and has nothing to do with them at all.

But later on, things in the show (like how Spike was handled) make fans begin to question this.

So fans then usually come up with the idea that the Watcher's Council was wrong in telling us this first thing that we heard. Or moreover, that that's probably what they want their Slayers to believe, for obvious reasons. But really, vampires are the person they once were, they just have a demon in them now and no soul/conscience.

Like I said: I might get into all of that in another post. But like a lot of fans have come up with, I do now think that Angel/Angelus are the same person, and that Angelus sort of developed split personalities.

And fanfic writers usually give the following reason for this, if they also buy into this idea.

That when Angelus' soul was restored to him--and all the Catholic teachings he believed in and adhered to as a human--he couldn't deal with it, so came up with the idea that it wasn't really him (and in some ways, it wasn't. Because with a soul/conscience and without the demon, he never would have done that stuff). It was the demon. And thus the Angelus and Angel split was born.

I think another idea similar to that (I don't know if I've seen it in fanfiction, though maybe I have) is that when Angelus' conscience is returned to him, he can't handle all of the horrible things that he did--the mind can only deal with so much, after all--and so in order to protect itself, it comes up with the idea it wasn't truly him--and the Angelus and Angel split is born.

But one thing I feel like I've never seen anyone mention (that I was having a discussion about with a friend once)... is the possibility is that the Romani curse itself could have been responsible for the split. Or at least partly responsible for it. Because there's the loophole in the curse, that after Angel gets his soul back, he'll lose it again if he ever knows a moment of true happiness. But doesn't this make it so there will always be a monstrous version of himself that he can turn back into? It almost makes it sound like to me that the conditions of the curse make it so that "Angelus" can never be rehabilitated, even if he got a chip or whatever like Spike did, so there would always be evil for Angel to turn back into, if he had his moment of true happiness, all so the Romani could have their revenge that way. Does that make sense to anyone else, or am I just crazy? ^_^'

#buffy the vampire slayer #long post #angel #angelus #angel(us) #also. i think the real reason for the inconsistent soul writing is (a)the writers didn't have it all figured out from the get-go and made #it up as they went along. and thus there are plotholes #and/or (b) they sometimes didn't care about the soul rules if better character writing could come out of it. so they just did whatever #and i'm not condoning them for that. at the end of the day i'd better have good character writing over consistent lore #like i said. i might make a bigger post about all of this someday #but they def didn't have all of this planned out at first. they didn't even know angel WAS a vampire at first. they thought he'd be a legit #angel. lol #but like... at this point. i just see too many similarities between angel and angelus to see them as different characters #and i think even in s2 we were supposed to see them as the same character (i think writing in later seasons changed this though like as4) #but notice how in bs2 that even when angel has turned evil the scooby gang still calls him angel #i think the tie-in novels (though if you want to see them as canon or not is up to you) has a somewhat similar belief #and in s3 buffy saying things like 'i know everything that you did because you did it to me. god i wish that i wish you did. but i don't #i can't' makes me think this is right. note that she doesn't say 'i know everything that ANGELUS did. because he did it to me' or anything #like that. it's 'you' #i know this might be an unpopular opinion among my fellow bangels though. and i can get why #but to me. this is what i think canon was trying to say. but if you don't agree that's totally totally fine #and i still think you can't really pin angelus' sins onto angel. and i get why buffy thinks that too #but also get why angel thinks he needs to make amends for them #but once again. the lore IS inconsistent. so there may be no real answer here. or we may get different answers. or more than one

[southsidestory]

Something that I love about BTVS and its portrayal of misogyny:

Spike is quite sexist prior to getting his soul. He calls Buffy a bitch on several occasions, he slut shames her, he’s generally knee-deep in toxic masculinity, in "Tabula Rasa" he calls Anya a trollop without knowing *anything* about her, and he expresses admiration for Tara’s father. (Though that last one is at least 50% performative, considering that he helps Tara get away from her family in that same scene.)

But as soon as he’s ensouled, those behaviors go out the window. Which can’t be said for many of Spike’s other mundane, unpleasant qualities and cruel tendencies.

This implies that misogyny is so fundamentally evil that it’s part of the Soulless Creature Starter Kit.

And I think that’s beautiful 🤣

#BTVS #spike #buffy the vampire slayer #spike headcanons #soul lore #I don't understand how someone as awful and misogynistic as joss whedon #could make btvs #don't get me wrong the show has a lot of flaws #including misogynistic storylines and characterizations #but the show is also full of (white) feminist themes and character arcs #tldr It's Complicated but interesting

[luukeskywalker]

don't mind me i am desperately trying to figure out btvs vampire lore right now. what do you MEAN they're demons possessing "drained of blood" human bodies

#on the surface it makes a minor amount of sense but the more you think about it the deeper the well goes #what happens to the demon when the vampire gets a soul. #is the demon a separate entity?? bc the vampires always seem to be just like the humans they were with more bloodlust #we've seen the first vampires they are fully creatures!!! were they humans once??????? #HELP ME BUFFY YOUR LORE IS NONSENSICAL

[greensaplinggrace]

the fact of the matter is that buffy ends up isolated no matter what the scoobies do because she bears the burden of the slayer alone at the end of the day and nothing can change that. the problem with this isn't that she's separate from them, it's that they don't want to acknowledge that she is, and in doing so they drive a wedge between them that just grows and grows. the best thing about spike is that he's similar enough to this other side of buffy to understand it and her by extension. he is the only person around who can support that side of her.

most of buffy's issues in season six stem from the scoobies rejecting a part of buffy that spike accepts. and this shame she feels for her reliance on spike and the presence of this darkness and isolation she cannot avoid is largely because of them. i'm sick of this bizarre assumption that pointing out where the scoobies go wrong in their relationship with buffy somehow equals an uncritical uplifting of spike. just because he understands her and represents a certain aspect of her doesn't mean he doesn't fuck up. i mean that's kind of the whole point of their season six dynamic. one of his biggest issues is that he thinks he's helping her by enabling her completely because he doesn't have the ability to properly identify the line between self acceptance and self destruction - pursuit of the id is one of his biggest character traits. that's what makes the end of season six and his decision to get the soul so interesting (although of course there's just as much i can say about the narrative framing of that in regards to lore consistency and the story's obsession with angel, but that's a whole other thing).

point is, the scoobies cannot understand all of buffy, and when they refuse to acknowledge this they destroy their chances of building any bridges to even a simple relationship with that other side of buffy or helping her carry that burden in any way. meanwhile, spike is in the proper position to understand buffy as the slayer and hold his own with her in such a way, but his definition of love is wholly obsessive and destructive. while i disagree that he's incapable of love and even of loving selflessly without his soul, i think spike's version of love in particular is self destructive in a way that enables buffy's own desire to hurt herself through hurting him (see the aforementioned shame regarding her shadow self). spike cannot identify why allowing buffy to give in to her dark side in such a way is bad because he struggles to understand how she could use this to resent herself - although i do think he realizes it's happening on some level.

spike is also buffy's only form of catharsis and the only one that actually listens to what she is saying during a time when everybody else is dismissing her because of the aforementioned inability to understand her as the slayer. it's a clusterfuck - and a clusterfuck that needed to be shattered with a hammer for any kind of relief. and quite frankly to disregard the scoobies' own part in this situation does a disservice to buffy as a character. to be honest, she deserves fucking better than what everyone in her life gives her, especially the scoobies, who grow to take her for granted and feel entitled to controlling her life as a way of keeping her conformed - again, due to the aforementioned lack of desire to acknowledge this other part of her that they cannot connect with.

which leads to season seven, where spike is the only person on the show who has developed and changed enough to remain at buffy's side helping her carry the burden. while everyone else suffered during season six, none of them opened their eyes to what they were doing to buffy - and if they did, none of them acted on it. spike is the only one to acknowledge the damage he's done and work to become better for buffy in any way he can. he is the only one that ends up able to carry that burden with her because he is the only one capable of facing the truth and acting on his desire to do better.

the fucking problem isn't that he hurt buffy - because to be quite frank everybody did - it's that he's the only person on the whole damn show to acknowledge his place in buffy's life, and to acknowledge the burdens she bears, and actively change himself for her. did you know he has almost all of the genuine apologies in the entire show? seven seasons and all of the harm the scoobies cause buffy, and it's fucking spike that is acting like a mature person capable of being a proper partner.

#buffy summers #btvs #spuffy #anyways buffy deserves better than that #is all #as a character who's path to self acceptance is pretty important to a lot of people #even if again i could write a lot about how that bag is fumbled throughout the show lol #btvs discourse #fandomcourse #pro spuffy #idk man i dont actually go to this fandom #i just have thoughts on buffy #honestly i never joined the fandom cause i imagine the literacy is probably worse than even the bs fandom lmfao

[writingwithcolor]

Romani character portrayals in fanfiction

Rroma Dick Grayson, batman fanfiction

endoftheworldhere asked:

I wanted to write a fanfiction about what Dick Grayson’s life would have been like if he wasn’t adopted by Batman. It was going to have him dealing with the bad parts of Gotham City and interacting with various criminals and rouges, But I was worried that could come off as stereotypical or racist since he’s been portrayed as at least part Romani and I wanted to include some connections to his heritage as a way he clings his parents after they died so traumatically. Any advice?

The thing about Dick Greyson is that he was retconned into being part Romani, and the writers did so in a very stereotypical way. A lot of Romani people have talked about this, especially on Tumblr, and opinions do vary about how he should be written. Many think it’s best to ignore his “heritage” and just write him as white, while others disagree and think that his heritage is important representation and should be written, but more respectfully.

I honestly don’t know my personal opinion on this, but I will say that there is a huge stereotype about Romani people being criminals. If you do plan to write him as part Romani, make sure to avoid these tropes. Otherwise, I would just nix his Romani heritage.

-Mod Tess

Romani woman, curses and Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Anonymous asked:

I'm struggling a bit with a piece of fan work right now, and I was hoping you could weigh in. In Buffy season two, there's a character named Jenny, who we first meet as a techno-pagan computer science teacher, who helps Buffy and co deal with fighting demons and stuff. Only the thing is, she's Rromani. She's there to make sure a family curse stays on a vampire who killed someone beloved to them a century ago (mostly to protect people from him if Angel/Angelus gets uncursed), which everyone gets mad at her for not telling them when he loses his soul and goes on rampage.  Ordinarily, it's not hard to write her, because until that arc, she's a fun character who happens to be a Rroma woman, and as other characters use magic, that doesn't stand out. But the whole curse thing, and the depiction of her family we're given, (and the way a canon redemption arc for Angelus I can't stand starts with him getting a soul as a punishment for killing a Rroma woman in 1898), and the everyone being mad about deception all just feels like many negative stereotypes.  What would be your thoughts on depicting Jenny, and on what to keep in mind trying to rewrite how she was shown in the show. [Ask redacted for length]

Let me just start out by saying that I am not very familiar with Buffy, so thank you for the context. I think your best bet here would be to drop the curse plot line altogether, as that’s a huge stereotype about Romani people. I think it’s ok to have her do magic, as long as other characters also do, and although I do think the vampire stuff is also a stereotype (a lot of vampire lore is supposedly taken from some Romani folklore, and Romani people are often associated with vampires in pop culture), I think it’s fine given the context of the show.

-Mod Tess

#Romani #Romani women #Romani men #fanfiction #Romani stereotypes #Romani tropes #asks

[jennycalendar]

spike getting mad at angel for being Team Buffy and getting generally philosophically upset about the concept of a demon "changing" from evil to good is literally so fucking funny because of the two of them, in terms of long-term series character development involving constant transformation, spike is so very clearly the one who is least consistent re: What He Is and What He's Becoming!!! he's the complicated one who is not quite evil not quite good existing outside of the soul lore and gumming up the system!!! and absolutely yes s2 is intentionally ambiguous re: how much of angel's deal is actually as simple as a separation between angel and angelus, AND angel himself is in a constant state of striving to be better, but that's a key word -- CONSTANT. angel's character arc is relatively trackable. spike's evolution throughout the show from one-off big bad to crying on joyce's shoulder to sullen skulking around giles's apartment to Buffy Obsession Extravaganza makes it OBJECTIVELY HILARIOUS when he's like "DEMONS DON'T CHANGE, ANGEL. HOW DARE YOU GO AND CHANGE." biggest case of dramatic irony ever

#celia watches btvs #i had to stop the episode. bc i was cackling

[midnight-mismanagement]

I’ve been thinking about That Church SceneTM and idk I think what hit me hardest was how Spike is talking about his former pre-soul mindset and how naive it is. He says “and she shall look on him with forgiveness and love and everyone will forgive and love and he will be loved” because while pre-soul he knew he was a monster and he knew he had done horrible things, he was okay with those things, he was a vampire after all, but he felt horrible for what he did to Buffy, but even then he still had a bit of hope. From the outside looking in, Angel’s soul seemed like the “button” for the “be good” switch. It would be the “piece that would make [him] fit” so he would be the “kind of man who would never [hurt her].” The “be a man not a monster” switch, that would make him be able to tell right from wrong and never hurt the people he loves anymore. But...the soul is not a “be good” switch. I don’t really know what the soul exactly is, since it’s never really concrete in the lore, but it doesn’t just make him fit, it doesn’t turn him into what he wants, but what it does do, is make him much more aware of himself and what he’s done, and he comes to the realization that no, there is no forgiveness. There never will be, he will never be worthy of it. He is condemned. He says “it’s okay now, right?” with hopeful despondency because he knows it will never be okay. Spike has always wanted acceptance, and love, and he sought it from places he would never get it, and now he knows he will never get it because he shouldn’t.

So when he goes up in flames by the end in heroic sacrifice and all that jazz, he’s happy he even got to have an ending like this, he’s finally doing something right. And when he comes back in Angel, as a ghost with no ability to affect the world around him (except annoy the crap out of Angel) he feels he is on borrowed time. In the moment of burning up, he didn’t have to think about if he would end up in hell or the aftermath, but with Pavayne toying with him, tugging him in to hell, it’s a slow torture of what he’s known all along, even if he didn’t fully want to face it. He is still condemned. And yet, given what he believes to be the one opportunity to stave off the inevitable for however longer and get a body, he still chooses Fred’s life over his own. And Fred tells him “you’re someone worth saving.” She doesn’t condemn him. She believes in him, like Buffy did, and this time it’s someone he doesn’t have a rocky past with or romantic feelings with, she just sees him for him and wants to help. And in the end he gets a body while she loses hers, and it’s because Angel and Spike did the “right” thing because it’s what Fred would’ve wanted. I think soulless him would’ve saved Fred, even if it meant condemning so many others. 

And on the day he thinks will once again be his last before the big suicide mission showdown (which he was the first to volunteer for), he doesn’t call Buffy to give her the pain of finding he’s alive only to die again, instead he goes to a bar and reads his poetry, the window into his shameful, soft soul that was stamped on and laughed at the last time he was a human, and hopes for acceptance. And he gets it.

#I just have a lot of Spike feelings all of a sudden #this is how I procrastinate is by falling down eighth grade rabbit hole obsessions #but yeah just very much the whole #will this fix me oh shit nothing can #and it was me who did that #is very much oof #the soul doesn't make him a good person #it just holds up a mirror he hasn't seen himself in since he was a human #and it's on him to figure out what to choose from here #to keep going or sink into his inevitable condemnation #and accept there is no salvation only living #or unliving #btvs #spike #spike btvs #buffy the vampire slayer

[coraniaid]

I think there's something fascinating about the evolution of Darla as a character in the Buffyverse.

It's very common in the Buffy fandom to talk about the show almost as if it were fully planned out from the beginning or somehow emerged fully-formed one day in its entirety.  To analyze Season 1 episodes as if the writers had already decided on the Heart/Mind/Spirit symbolism of the core Scooby Gang; to act as though a Season 5 retcon means that Spike was really in love with Buffy as early as Season 3's Lovers Walk; to suggest the constant changes in how the show deals with soul lore or vampires as a metaphor must mean that Giles and the Council were 'really' lying or ignorant in the first few seasons; to wonder what the Watchers Council introduced in Season 3 were doing in the show's first two seasons; to insist you can't really understand Season 1 until you've finished Season 7.

And, look, I totally get the temptation to do that sort of thing.  It's unavoidable if you want to talk about the universe of the show as a real thing in its own right, or try to write fanfiction that takes every season seriously.  It can be a useful and interesting way of thinking about the show.  I've done it myself and will no doubt keep doing it.

But at the same time, it's very misleading if you want to think about the show as a constructed work of collaborative art: as a piece of fiction in constant conversation with itself, shaped and reshaped again and again over years by a team of different people.  Which, to be clear, is what it actually is.

The real show is almost a piece of improv or some sort of conjuring act, with the writers and actors constantly juggling with new ideas and twists without any time to worry about how exactly everything fits together. With some episodes reportedly being written in only a handful of days and lore being continually changed and ignored as fits the current demands of the plot.  Questions like "how does soul lore really work?" or "after Prophecy Girl who is the real Slayer anyway?" ultimately can't be answered, because there simply is no single truth to uncover.  It depends entirely on the current episode.

And I think the ever-changing character of Darla provides the best illustration of that reality.

In the original unaired pilot, Julie Benz plays an unnamed vampire who is nonetheless pretty easy to identify with the Darla we'll see in the show proper.  She has no links to Angel or Luke or the Master, because none of these characters even exist yet.  Just like in Welcome to the Hellmouth, she lures an unsuspecting victim into the high school after dark before vamping out and killing him, but by the end of the episode she is dead: gruesomely dispatched (or as gruesomely as the pilot's limited special effects budget allowed) after Willow douses her with holy water.

The two parter Welcome to the Hellmouth / The Harvest expands on her role slightly.  She has a name now, for one thing. She works for the Master, too, but she doesn't at all seem to be his favorite (she's very much subordinate to Luke in both these episodes), and there's no suggestion that she has any special connection to Angel.  (Unsurprisingly, as the show's writers hadn't even decided to make Angel a vampire at this point.)  And her ultimate fate at the end of this two-parter is unclear: just as in the pilot, Willow soaks her with holy water, and then she's ... gone?  Nobody mentions her again, she's not in scenes with the Master in later episodes which logically she should be. I'm pretty sure that, just like in the pilot, we're meant to assume she's dead.

But then Darla gets her first big break.  Angel is, it turns out, a vampire, and he needs some backstory to match.  Julie Benz obviously made a decent enough impression in the first couple of episodes, and nothing she did or said quite ruled her out as Angel's sire, and we never quite see her die. So suddenly she's back,  now the Master's favorite vampire, attacking Buffy's mother in her own home and sowing the seeds of mistrust between Buffy and Angel and ... oh, she's dead again.  Bummer.

Except then in Season 2 Angel's role expands again -- he's not just Buffy's intermittently seen vampire boyfriend anymore, he's the focus of the whole season and he's going to appear in all but one episode.  Of course, he's going to need more backstory (and we're all going to be treated to David Boreanaz's best Irish accent) so ... once again Darla rises from the ashes, albeit this time only in flashbacks.  And the Darla we see in Becoming's flashbacks is once again an evolution of the character we last saw in Season 1's  Angel.  More confident, more complex.  A character that it is honestly difficult to reconcile with the take on the character we saw last season, especially the one we swa in the show's first two episodes.

Anyway, Angel gets sent to hell in Season 2, but not before managing to (somehow) act his way into his own spin-off series.  And yes, that means more flashbacks, and more Darla, and more retcons about the precise nature of her relationship with the Master, but ultimately it means the writers decide to bring Darla back from the dead at the end of the spin-off's first season (for, depending on exactly you count it, arguably the fourth time, though only the first in-universe).  And this iteration of Darla -- both the human Darla we see in the beginning of Angel's second season, and the vampire she becomes again later that season -- is arguably the closest thing there is to a definitive take on the character.  This is the Darla people mean when they talk about her on the show.  Not the mid-level vampire of Welcome to the Hellmouth or the essentially single episode villain of Season 1's Angel, but the real deal.  Darla at her most complicated and rich and alive, a Darla whose history is hopelessly entangled with that of her on-again, off-again lover Angel, a character who provides the driving force for the spin-off show's greatest season.  A character who is, I think, one of the most  interesting to ever appear on that show.

Then the last few episodes of Season 2 completely drop Darla and all trace of the arc she introduced. When she reappears next season (in just a handful of episodes) it's so that her character can be written out of the show via mystical and impossible-by-the show's-previous-rules pregnancy in order for men to feel sad about it (but not for very long), and afterwards everything generally goes to shit.

But then, that tells you quite a lot about the Buffyverse and its creators as well.

#btvs

[hersterical]

soul lore in Buffy is finally beginning to make sense in my head (give me a break, I didn’t watch the show until COVID and didn’t start taking part in the fandom until at least a year after that). A lot of this is basic stuff the fandom’s been saying for years, this is just to help get my thoughts in order before I fall asleep and lose the train of thought.

There are a few important elements but I think the two biggest ways the lack of a soul influences a vampire is 1. No moral compass and 2. No empathy (as we see mostly with Spike but a few others as well, they can have sympathy but no empathy). I also don’t get the impression that soulless vampires are capable of true, selfless love. Again looking at Spike, whenever he loves someone pre-soul it always felt possessive or like he wanted to be possessed by someone. Sure, he sincerely wanted certain people he cared about to be happy, but he didn’t want them to be happy just for the simple sake of them being happy. At best he wanted them to be happy because being around them makes him happy and it’s his happiness that truly mattered to him. So if there ever came a time where the happiness of the person he cared about didn’t make him happy anymore, then he wouldn’t care about their happiness. This is mostly based on Spike because he’s the vampire we have the most opportunity to understand while he doesn’t have a soul. To me it seems that all soulless vampires could be placed on a scale from Spike, who possesses the most amount of sympathy and derives the greatest amount of happiness from the happiness of others, to Angellus who doesn’t have a single ounce of sympathy and actively takes joy out of the misery of others. Most seem to tend closer towards Angellus’ end of the scale and I wanted to explore that a bit.

Before I do that though there are some important things of a more physiological nature that would influence vampires both with and without a soul. The first is that I’ve always gotten the impression that a vampire’s primal, predator instincts are more heightened and animalistic than humans. The way I see it there are two main explanations for this: 1. Those instincts come from the demon that possesses the body or 2. Something about becoming a vampire allows them to access the human’s dormant predatory instincts. I’m no evolutionary scientist so I can’t say how likely that second one is, but no matter what it’d be far from the hardest thing this show asks the viewers to suspend their disbelief for. The other thing about vampire physiology has just little enough evidence to support it that I would probably have to classify it as a headcanon. I am convinced that human blood is an addictive substance to vampires based on how secretly being fed Connor’s blood influenced Angel.

With all that said, I’d like to take this opportunity to explore the after-life span of an average Joe vampire.

Imagine you wake up and it is dark, cold and suffocating. But none of that bothers you because more than anything you are hungry. No living being has her possessed this great hunger that you are experiencing right now. Not even being capable of conscious thought at this point, you start clawing. Eventually you dig your way up to the surface where you either have your sire waiting for you, holding in their arms the greatest smelling meal you’ve ever smelt in your whole life, a human, or no one and you need to find something to eat yourself. Even if you find a small animal to eat that’s not enough to satiate your all consuming hunger. No matter what you’re going to get your first taste of human blood as a vampire that night. And it is the greatest thing you have ever tasted. Sure, you had to kill someone to get it, but you don’t care. As you finished eating and stared at the corpse of a human being whose heart is no longer beating because of you, the closest you get to regret, shame, or guilt is the surprise that you don’t feel any of those things.

That was the best thing you’ve ever experienced but you still don’t have a particular desire to kill people. You might even avoid it for a bit in order to avoid attention or out of habit. But even if you actively don’t want to kill another human for whatever reason, you can’t get the taste of their blood off your tongue. The thought of human blood consumes you every waking moment of your life, which is quite a bit considering you don’t need to sleep anymore. But whether it be in a day or a week or a year, you will kill another human. This time you do care. Not that they’re dead, no. But in that moment as you took their life force and made it your own, you have never felt more powerful or in control (ironic considering vampires actually tend to lose control while drinking human blood). Even with all of this great supernatural power you’ve been gifted with, nothing is as powerful as taking a human life. And the blood itself. It feels almost like your rapidly fading memories of warm sunlight on your skin, gentle instead of burning. You’ve never been particularly power hungry before so even though that part might be cool, it doesn’t hold a candle to the sensation of drinking blood. Whatever hesitation you might have had towards killing humans is now gone. But that still doesn’t necessarily mean that you want to though.

You go and visit your loved ones from when you were alive, but when you get there all you can think is how weak you were. How dull the life of a mortal is. How nice the warmth of the sun was on your skin. How it felt to be loved. How it felt to be willing to give your own life and happiness for the sake of someone else’s. It fills you with rage, disgust, and even jealousy for your old self. You take your power back and get rid of any reminders of who you used to be.

Time goes on. Decades pass. You feed, you travel, and you learn. And you grow bored. What was once an exciting after life is nothing but pure drudgery. Even the taste of human blood is becoming common after so long of living off nothing but that. What hasn’t gotten old is the chase. The hunt. That power you once got a taste of but didn’t particularly care for at the time is the only thing that can make you feel anything. Humans are no longer tasty little juice boxes, they’re your play things. The adrenaline from the hunt turns your hunger for blood, into a hunger for power over people.

Eventually the chase grows stale. It’s just too easy. You try to spice it up by toying with humans. Making them scream or beg. But it’s still not enough. That’s when you hear about it. A hellmouth. A slayer. Both together in the same place. One of the greatest sources of power for a demon alongside with the greatest challenge any vampire could hope to face. It’s more powerful than any siren call, how could you possibly resist. Sunnydale is waiting for you.

You get there and between the influence of the hellmouth and the group think of a ridiculous amount of vampires and other demons, it feels as exhilarating as the dance floor of a crowded nightclub. Which is funny because the local nightclub is where you do most of your feeding.

You lead your latest victim out into the back alley, and start feeding. You are once again growing bored even on a hellmouth with the prospect of facing a slayer. It’s just too easy. These are your thoughts when you hear someone clear their throat. This surprises you enough to pull you away from your meal to see a small, blonde girl who’s dressed for a night of dancing. Dessert. Except something’s off. She tilts her head and outs on a mock pout as she asks if she could just get one night off. You don’t like her attitude, her face looking far too smug for your taste, and her blood is singing out to you like no blood has ever done before. You feel almost as hungry as the night you crawled out of your grave. Tossing aside the barely alive human you were just feeding on, you eagerly lunge at the small woman.

She punches you in the face. Hard. You fall to the ground and scramble back up as quickly as possible as you’re filled with a sudden certainty. “Slayer!” You snarl with equal parts shock, anticipation, and fear.

“Is that part of the vampire handbook or something? You guys really gotta get some new material.” She says in response.

How dare she? The insolence! You’ve drained the life out of hundreds of humans before her. You are immortal. Invincible. And she just dismisses you like you’re nothing? She will learn. You are the night, you are fueled by the life-force you’ve been draining out of humans for decades. You’ve seen things this little girl couldn’t think up in her worst nightmares. You have purged yourself of all weaknesses and now you will obtain the greatest power any vampire could ever hope to possess, the blood of a slayer.

You run for her, your claws reaching for her.

You are immediately impaled. As you crumble to dust you hear the last words you’ll ever hear: a half-hearted quip about you not being the dance partner she was hoping for tonight.

#long post #it went from being meta to being a fanfic partway through #btvs #buffy the vampire slayer #Soul lore #angel btvs #spike btvs #angel the series #ats

[disco-tea]

Drusilla really throws soul lore and OG vampire lore out the window because otherwise what’s the point? What’s the point of turning her to preserve her insanity? To deny her the release of death? She’s just gonna get it anyway if it’s really not her after she’s turned. How is dooming a demon to insanity because of its host’s memories that much of an achievement? How do you even know the demon would be traumatized by that?

#buffy the vampire slayer #btvs meta #soul lore #drusilla btvs

[girl4music]

Can men be lesbians? In reality… probably not since a “lesbian” is wholly defined as a female homosexual.

In fiction? Hell yes because fiction is representation.

The thing with being a lesbian is that it’s not just a sexuality. It’s a whole damn aesthetic and some actual characters that identify as male in art/entertainment do have that aesthetic and possess the qualities and traits of what you would typically have of a lesbian. It’s a stereotype, don’t get me wrong. But it’s used often enough in fiction and art/entertainment that it’s a thing. Take Spike for example. Now, to me, his whole vibe just screams out “repressed lesbian” because he undergoes an entire character arc of performing something he thinks he should or must be but actually isn’t. That of an evil thing only. A beast. A monster. But when push comes to shove is really just a hapless, scorned pathetic loser with the kindest and most compassionate heart. In his human lifetime as William Pratt he gets nicknamed “William the Bloody” not because he kills people but because he kills poetry. He is a “bloody awful poet” and he takes that insult to heart so much to the point where he rebrands himself when he becomes a vampire. With the help of Druscilla who sires him and moulds his world anew, he turns his unfortunate nickname into one that actually is because he kills people. And he becomes “William the Bloody” because he is an evil thing only. A beast. A monster. But one that only exists and is created because he was treated so cruelly himself and not because his inherent nature and identity is evil because he is now a vampire - a demon with no soul.

Why does this make me view him as a repressed lesbian? What does any of this have to do with queerness at all? Well, in much the same way that Buffy’s Slayerism is a metaphor/allegory for being or feeling queer, Spike’s vampirism is a metaphor/allegory for performing that of which doesn’t fit quite right and is only a costume one is wearing to protect themselves from feeling like nothing but a weakling and a loser. Very much like Willow. A performance and projection of evil but is nowhere near that in actuality. Spike represses a part of him that is the foundation for everything that he is and that he becomes; William Pratt. And with the help of The Fanged Four fashions an identity that is only the armor for his vulnerability. It all depends on what external influence he has how he acts because he is like a wounded animal incarcerated. Animals are genuinely the most passionate and loyal of creatures - but they do bite you if you hurt them or something they care about. They will do what they can to survive, feed off the blood and the meat and marrow of other creatures and are insanely and fiercely protective of their own.

‘Fool For Love’ practically tells you everything you need to know about Spike through his backstory because his backstory is HIS backstory. It doesn’t belong to some separate human entity that died that he, as a demon, now possesses and assumes the identity of. William IS that of the same entity of that of which IS Spike. They are the same conscious entity. Spike IS the human and IS the demon simultaneously. Everything we get with Spike is informed by William and everything we get with William creates Spike. The “evil demon” that “sets up shop” in the body doesn’t exist because it is not a possession. It’s an evolution. Which is why when he gets his soul, we don’t get William Pratt back. We just get Spike with a soul. No different from the entity that was when there wasn’t one besides a change of perspective in morality. But very much the same exact person as soulless Spike because the soul is just an internal moral compass. It’s just a conscience and nothing more than that really. However, the inherent nature and identity that was William is so strong and so encompassing within Spike (because he is the same entity as William) that it was possible Spike could become good without a soul. It would be extremely difficult for him yes, because he didn’t know the difference between right and wrong on his own. He didn’t have Jiminy Cricket within him. But he did possess a human psyche that was good. His consciousness is what would have helped him eventually evolve into a selfless and empathetic being because he already possessed those traits and qualities anyway. He already was capable of doing good just as much as he was capable of doing evil and were he treated with kindness and respect from the Scoobies - would have had more opportunity to override his demonic nature and cultivate his human. And I absolutely refuse to believe that he couldn’t because as far as I’m concerned, the only damn thing that made the difference was who was in his company.

And besides from all of that - just fucking LOOK AT HIM. The bleach blonde hair, the nail polish, the eyes. Tell me he doesn’t look like the most feminine male there is and the most masculine female there is. I’m sorry to involve the stereotypes but you cannot tell me that this is not what they were going for with his characterization when they began to conceive him.

#buffy the vampire slayer #spike #william pratt #wiliam the bloody #james marsters #repressed lesbian #performance #authenticity #soul lore #human #vampire #demon #characterization #character representation #character development