#2x08 what was meant to be | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

brigdh · 6 months

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Okay. My thoughts on the Our Flag Means Death finale. Obviously I'm not very happy with the ending, though I'm also not as upset as some people are. I would say I'm discontent. Unsatisfied. Too aware of how it could have been improved, and a bit bitter that we didn't get a better version, but I also don't hate what we did get.

I know a lot of meta has attributed the problems to a shorter season, and absolutely I would have loved to get 10 episodes instead. I would have loved 22 episodes! Why don't we do that anymore? But I don't think the 8 episode length was the ultimate problem. A) The showrunner and writers knew they had only 8 episodes, so they needed to choose a story that fit into that length, but even more importantly, B) my problem is not that they had too much story for too little time, but actually that they had plenty of time and chose to fill it with too little story.

As I've sat with it over the last few days and thought more about the season's arc, it feels to me like we got eight episodes of filler. Filler episodes can be great! Filler episodes can have some of the funniest lines, the greatest scenes, the most intriguing ideas. But filler episodes do not progress character arcs or major themes, and that's exactly the problem this season had.

The only characters who got arcs this season are Izzy, and to a lesser and more rushed extent, Lucius. Which sure is a choice.

Ed and Stede and their relationship did not meaningfully change from S1. (Okay, yes, they had sex, they said I Love You – but these are external changes, not internal. They don't represent character growth. Stede realized he loved Ed and was telling everyone back in 1x10. Ed clearly would have slept with him in S1 if they'd had a little more time.) Ed and Stede in 2x08 are not different from who they are in 2x01. If Ed had asked Stede to be innkeepers in 2x01, does anyone think Stede wouldn't have immediately agreed? One of the big moments in 2x08 is Ed reading a letter that Stede wrote in 2x01! Stede's exact words from the very beginning of the season! What better way to underline that none of the subsequent seven episodes had important growth or changes?

Another one of 2x08's big shippy moments is Ed and Stede running to each other across a beach – deliberately paralleling the dream Stede had in 2x01. What are we supposed to take from this parallel? My original thought was that we're supposed to see how different the real version is from the dream, but there's honestly not many differences. Neither one has a beard, now? The dream mocked how Stede knew they needed to have a conversation about their relationship that he wanted to avoid, but they don't have a conversation in the "real" version either. They exchange about two sentences (which includes Ed's I Love You, yes, which is a big deal but still isn't a conversation) and then they charge right back into the fight, without discussing anything like Ed abruptly dumping Stede to go be a fisherman, Stede killing Ned Low when Ed asked him not to, their differences of opinion on being pirates, if having sex was a mistake or if that's only a thing Ed said because he was panicking, etc etc. They have just as many issues to address as they did in the dream, but just like the dream they act like everything is magically okay without talking about it!

So I think we're meant to take the beach-run parallels as "here's what Stede's been wanting, and after waiting for so long he finally gets it". Which is fine, a very sweet take-away for a finale. But it underlines what I'm saying is the problem of the season: Stede has just been waiting for eight episodes for his dream to come true. Not changing. Not growing. Not doing anything to bring the dream about, other than trying to get himself and Ed into the same physical location. Just... waiting.

This is an extra surprising development, because the show was really good at giving Ed and Stede character arcs in S1! Ed and Stede in 1x10 are significantly different than they were in their first introductions. Also, just to preempt some criticism, by 'progressing' I do not mean 'wrap up literally every loose end and make a firm final ending' – S1's finale is an excellent example of both moving the characters forward and leaving a ton of room for future stories. I wasn't expecting for 2x08 to show us a Stede and Ed who were perfectly on the same page and would never again have a problem. I was expecting them to be somewhat different than they were in 2x01, and I just don't see that.

Instead of arcs, we got little pieces of single-episode growth here and there that never added up to an overall whole. The season brought up a ton of potential arcs for Ed – violence, piracy, guilt, suicide, daddy issues, self-loathing, apologies, redemption, his tendency to idealize escaping into a different life – but didn't do anything with any of these options. Stede had nothing resembling a season arc at all.

Stede works to improve as a captain! Stede kills someone and has regrets! Stede confronts Ed's dark side! <- All potential arcs, but none of which lasted for more than an episode or had consequences. We don't even know what the ending means for Stede: does he want to be an innkeeper because he failed as a pirate in 2x07? Because piracy was always just a displaced search for love, and now that he has love, he doesn't need piracy? What does the crew of the Revenge leaving mean to him? Stede's understanding of their new arrangement literally happens off-screen and we're left to fumble at guesses for its significance to him as an individual.

Ed and Stede's last big conversation in the season is their break-up fight in 2x07, which is a shocking way to send off your main couple in a rom-com. Yes, there's the I Love You on the beach (again: two sentences) and the brief 'let's try to be innkeepers' conversation at the very end, but that's it for them in 2x08, except for their inclusion in some brief large group conversations about their fighting skills and the plan for escaping the British. How can you end your rom-com with the main couple exchanging only a paragraph's worth of dialogue in the finale? None of the stuff was brought up in the fishing fight in 2x07 is ever addressed at all!

Again, I don't think this is solely a matter of time crunch. Instead of using the eight episodes to progress the two main characters, we got a bunch of filler episodes that used the time in amusing side tangents instead of forward progress. I don't think that's the inevitable result of having to work with eight episodes.

Look, I can come up with a better Ed/Stede relationship arc without needing more episodes, and despite only thinking about this for a couple days and not having an entire writing room to work with:

(Note: this only addresses the Ed/Stede relationship. It doesn't fix Stede completely lacking an independent character arc and Ed having about ten thousand of them, none of which went anywhere.)

In 2x05 to 2x07, I would make Ed's motivations in their relationship very clearly that he's pushing Stede away so he doesn't get hurt again. Basically play up Ed's comment about "I was all in" in 2x04, and make him determined not to get 'all in' this time around. This aligns the "let's take it slow" conversation in 2x05, the "sex was a mistake" in 2x06, and Ed running away to be a fisherman in 2x07 into a single arc. He wants Stede, but he's afraid of what that wanting will do to him. He's trying to find a way to have a relationship without making himself vulnerable. He keeps pushing off commitment and openness.

Then, in 2x08, I'd make it more explicit that Ed thinks/fears Stede is dead when he sees the pirate ships burning. I think it's subtext in the episode as-is, but give him a line or two to make it really clear. Ed and Stede still see each other on the beach, have their dramatic run to each other, and Ed says, "I love you". Now this moment is Ed acknowledging his love, exactly what he's been avoiding for the last three episodes.

Near the end of the episode, Ed and Stede have a conversation where Ed says something like, "I didn't want to get hurt again, I was afraid of the risk of falling in love and you leaving again, but thinking you were dead made me realize that never loving you would be worse" (but better written, ha, this is a tumblr post that's already too long). (Also possibly you could tie in Izzy's death here to underline both Ed and Stede not wanting to lose another person they care about, if we must have that plot point for some reason.) We actually get to see Ed asking Stede to come be innkeepers with him, paralleling asking him to run away to China (and paralleling NOT asking Stede to a fisherman), Stede voices some of his worries (paralleling him keeping them inside in 1x09, but also giving him a chance to explain what piracy and love mean to him and why he'd give up one for the other), but ultimately they agree that they at least want to try.

This both puts them into a much clearer place for a happy ending, has clear growth from S1 and the beginning of this season, but also leaves open a ton of room for S3, because welp, it turns out trying to have a relationship entails all sorts of problems! Especially with these two. It also would make me feel like they'd at least addressed some of the issues between them.

Right now I feel like S3 will have to spend at least the first few episodes running through exactly the same "don't talk – break up – get back together dramatically" arc that Stede and Ed have already done twice but have never discussed and never learned from. I liked it, but I don't need to see it yet again. That will – ironically – feel like yet more wasted time, more episodes that are just churning through beats without moving the characters forward. I wanted them to have new, different fights in S3, but now I don't even feel like they've made enough progress to have a fresh set of problems.

#ofmd meta #our flag means death #ofmd 2x08 #ofmd season 2 #ofmd critical #(I guess)

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theaurorasky · 7 months

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The Wheel of Time 2x08 "What Was Meant to Be"

#the wheel of time #egwene al'vere #the other one doesn't deserve a tag

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moirainelan · 6 months

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The Wheel of Time 2x08 What Was Meant to Be

#the wheel of time #wotedit #wot on prime #moiraine damodred #lan mandragoran #moiraine x lan #moiraine and lan #tvedit #fantasyedit #tv #season 2 #2x08

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lordgolden · 7 months

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egwene's expression after renna cuts off her braid holy SHIT dude. madeleine madden emmy when. she's put on SUCH a stellar performance this season I can't wait to see more of her as egwene.

#sarah watches wot #wot show spoilers #wheel of time #wot on prime #2x08 what was meant to be

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ladyluscinia · 7 months

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2x08 Reaction #7

Ok, last episode thing in this series I've finally circled around to being pissed about is framing Izzy as a mentor to Edward.

Because what the fuck.

When they had Stede do the whole "taught him everything he knows" bit in 2x05 I thought it was pure flattery, to the point I thought it was wild that Izzy even gave a little shrug like he might believe it. I thought we had established pretty clearly in S1 that Edward was the creative thinker and leader in their dynamic.

Izzy was useful - probably even essential - but he was the support. The tool. Good at the execution.

And he certainly seemed to know this. In 1x04 where they establish their pre-Stede dynamic, Izzy expects Edward to come up with a brilliant plan and tell him what to do. He only doubts him enough to try and take charge at the last possible second, seems mostly aware his own idea is "get shot fighting back instead of sitting and dying", and feels genuine regret for both having to shoot down Edward's first plan and insulting him at all once he saves them in the end.

Because Edward is brilliant. He's earned his place as the leader between them. As Blackbeard.

Which makes it absolutely infuriating that in pivoting him into a "wise mentor" role they have Ricky say to Izzy's face that he was the brains behind Blackbeard and Izzy doesn't even refute it??? Paired with killing him off as the mentor (supposedly), and paralleling him to Auntie as they really double down on the "mentor who has authority over strategy and is proud of you" thing, and the displays of respect in 2x07... it kinda feels like the show is saying Edward learned most or all of his shit from Izzy.

And, like... if they just meant swordfighting and getting an approving nod when he pulled off a complicated disarm that would be one thing, but they kept focusing on things like "brains of the operation" and "how to lead the crew as a Captain" lessons.

And Edward is so much less interesting if Izzy actually taught him how to be Blackbeard, or if he was doing things as Blackbeard for Izzy's approval.

Like I guess I'm glad they didn't flesh it out enough to make the implications fully textual so you can fudge them away from that direction, but they don't really tell you not to read it that way. The man is even giving emotional development advice for fuck's sake. The mentor thing is jarring enough because the authority and respect dynamic really never flowed in Izzy's direction, but it's also putting Izzy in a position where I feel like they are implying he made Edward the man he was for better and worse, and... no. Don't do that.

Stop giving Edward's anxiety-ridden henchman credit for his atrocities - he worked hard on those.

(Plus we literally already know the first authoritative figure in piracy he got round two of Daddy Issues and his fucked up ideas about piracy from. How many symbolic fathers pushing him in dark directions does one man need to kill / be visited by in purgatory / watch die before he can start addressing those???)

#our flag means death #ofmd s2 #ofmd s2 spoilers #ofmd 2x08 #izzy hands ofmd #blackbeard ofmd #ofmd critical #ladyluscinia

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chirpsythismorning · 2 years

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Something we should definitely not overlook, because it feels relevant to birthdaygate, is the individual character posters for season 4.

There's actually even an interview with the Duffer Brothers, where they were asked about this theory:

Though, I should clarify, this interviewer got a few details wrong, as it appears Max was actually looking away from the camera, not directly at it. Not only that, but she also wasn’t the only one to do so. She was one out of four total...

Looking directly at the camera: El, Hopper, Murray, Will, Argyle, Steve, Dustin, Robin, (not shown above: Karen, Lucas, Erica, Nancy, Eddie)

Looking away from the camera, to their left: Joyce, Mike, Jonathon, Max

We could deduce that this visual choice was foreshadowing Max getting cursed by Vecna in season 4, and Matt did sort of elude to this in his response to the question, seeing as it was focused only on her. But what could this possibly mean for the other three then?

Initially, it didn’t seem like we got anything substantial enough in s4 that could have possibly paralleled Joyce, Mike and Jonathon to Max's situation, or even being cursed by Vecna like she did for that matter. Well, except—

I do find it interesting that the same episode we see Max slowly discover she has been cursed, in an episode literally titled 'Vecna's Curse', it's March 22nd, Will's birthday, and in real time we are seeing the three people who would definitely never forget Will's birthday, presumably forget.

Because undeniably, the first thing that crosses my mind when it comes to what could possibly connect these three characters with each other, is Will. He's what connects them all. But even more specifically, THIS scene below is what connects them all, a scene which, might I remind you, has a major emphasis on the word 'remember':

Joyce: Do you know what March 22nd is? It’s your birthday. YOUR birthday. When you turned 8, I gave you that huge box of crayons, do you remember that?

Jonathon: Do you remember the day dad left?

Mike: Do you remember the first day that we met?

Vecna:

Not only do I think this means that Vecna most likely took away these three's memory of Will’s birthday, I also think it means he took away this specific memory and all the memories mentioned within it.

If it's all coming full circle and everything leads back to Will, it would make sense that Vecna 'took notes' during this whole incident in 2x08. These memories and these specific people in Will's life played a role in thwarting Vecna's plans last time, so obviously, he's not going to give them the chance to do that again.

This also brings up some interesting questions:

Were those weird POV shots of the Cali gang, that looked oddly stalker-ish, meant to represent Vecna keeping a close eye on them, to make sure his plan was still in motion?

How long will this manipulation (curse) Vecna has on these three last? And to what extent? Will it all just come to a head right away in early season 5, at a moment when they're trying to save Will, but they inevitably fail because all of the relevant things that saved him last time, are now missing from their memories?

And last, but definitely not least, is it possible Mike wouldn’t have gone through with professing his love to El, the way that he did, even going as far as to say his life started the day he found her in the woods (the day Will went missing), if he had remembered already doing the exact same thing with Will…? If he had remembered the best thing he'd ever done was ask Will to be his friend? Because if this theory is correct y’all... MIKE DOESN'T REMEMBER!!!???

Well, that's all (for now)

Please be sure to check out this post if you haven't already, but even more importantly, scroll down to the bottom of that post, because there I have linked all the most incriminating evidence thus far.

And trust me, once you read all of it, it's pretty much undeniable.

I also hope this gives some validation to those of you out there who denied vehemently that Joyce, Mike or Jonathon could EVER possibly forget Will's birthday. Because you were right. Technically, they didn't. Technically it required an inter-dimensional monster for this to be possible at all. So props to ya'll and your faith in these characters! YOU WERE RIGHT!

#stranger things #will byers #stranger things meta #stranger things theory #birthdaygate #stranger things 5 #st5 headcanon #also hate to be the bitch to bring this up...#but you know how we always joked about how jonathon would be the only one to save will bc he knows his favorite song...#well.. in that scene in the shed back in s2... jonathon mentions that memory...#which means he doesn't remember #WHICH MEANS WILL IS FUCKED BASICALLY #yeah it might be good to go back and see everything they mentioned #because it's basically a free for all in terms of vecna swiping those memories right out of their brains #will byers im praying for you #that whole thing about s5 going back to s1 vibes has me scared...#but also there's a lot of foreshadowing that mike is in danger.?#so im not totally convinced he doesn't somehow mess up vecna's plan yet again...#maybe that's how him and will both end up stuck in the upside down together...#yes I will turn this around so it benefits me #what about it?

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mycroftpedvia · 2 years

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EDIT: turns out the interview is from 2019! doesn’t change the point tho ahaha

In a very recent interview Kayvan said now it’s all up to how patient Guillermo is, and I mean, this is it. The episode was Guillermo's breaking point but I think it was also about the fact that now we know for certain that Nandor truly cares more about him than his own happiness.

Let’s talk about it

He messed up, he messed up SO bad, but he never meant to hurt Guillermo. He even considered stealing Freddie from him but still chose not to because (to quote him) that would have been cruel. He knew that would have hurt Guillermo and he didn't want that.

We know how self-absorbed he is, it’s not like we’re finding out about it now, but when Guillermo finally breaks we can see how much shocked and truly sorry he is. He see Guillermo’s sadness, he tries to cheer him up (obviously in the most messy and stupid way) and eventually understand that what he did was wrong. He understands he broke Guillermo’s heart, he understands he hurted him very badly. He admits for the first time in 4 fucking seasons he has made a mistake. And a very big one.

That really never happened before.

In 2x05 we found out Nandor burned down Nadja’s village and he never felt sorry about it, he never apologized to her, he never gave a shit about what he had done. He has always put himself first, from the pilot to Go Flip Yourself, literally.

Even with Guillermo, in 1x04 he tried to fix things up because Guillermo was annoyed by his behavior but nothing more. In 2x08 he asked him to return home because HE was sad, not for Guillermo’s happiness. But now he chose Guillermo.

He chose Guillermo over the clone. He chose Guillermo over himself, over his happiness. For the first time EVER Nandor chose someone else over himself. For the first time Nandor acted, he tried to fix things up. HE FUCKING TRIED TO DO A GOOD THING FOR THE FIRST TIME IN FOUR SEASON AND HE DID IT FOR GUILLERMO

HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH IMPORTANT ALL OF THIS ACTUALLY IS

#I'M FEELING VERY NORMAL ABOUT THIS FUCKING FICTIONAL CHARACTER #nandor the relentless #nandermo #guillermo de la cruz #guillermo x nandor #What We Do in the Shadows #wwdits #wwdits season 4 #what we do in the shadows s4 #kayvan novak #harvey guillen

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thoughtfulchaos773 · 4 months

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Thank you for asking

There's a possible callback here.

Carmy and Sydney need to consider their person before rushing to move forward.

In season one, Syd is grieving like The Berzattos- she is mourning Sheridan Catering, and after she talks to Carmy about her past, an idea sparks to life, and she's ready to move forward. Sydney was so excited to move forward with Carmy that she stepped on his toes even as he told her to give him a minute; this delay had to do with Carmy processing his own trauma.

As a disclaimer- this isn't a reason to blame Sydney for Carmy's anger in 1x07- this happens when you ignore the grieving process- the rage lingers until it explodes.

Throughout season 2, we can see that Carmy is making progress in coping with the death of his brother. He attends Al-Anon meetings, passes on Mikey's hat to Richie, tries to have some fun, almost asks Sydney out, and takes a step back when he meets Claire (though to him he's processed his trauma).

But this illusion of moving forward goes on until 2x08-2x09. When Carmy understands the error- he gets Richie to ask Sydney about Mikey's note, a way to tell Sydney he hears her (he should have told her this to her face but maybe the table scene makes up for this).

The Thank you for asking is considering each other before they take a step forward. Because when they rush to heal without the other, things go wrong. It's like the universe requires they're in sync now rather than too far in the past or too far in the future.

They're switching roles as they process grief. As I write, I realize what they meant by you could do this without me. I couldn't do it without you. Yeah, you could. I wouldn't even want to do it without you.

This is about healing together rather than apart.

#sydcarmy #brain rot or finding new shit everyday because this show is insane #carmy x sydney #the bear meta #the bear 2x08 bolgenese #the bear 1x06 ceres

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raayllum · 9 months

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Okay so

What the Callum Pawn Intro Means, Decoded

So back in January I noticed that the stone spells overtaking Viren and Callum were decidedly different in their texture overall; Viren's is a more muted, dark magic-y purple, while Callum's was a brighter, more white tinged one that seemed more akin to (presumptive) Star magic.

And similarly, also since Jan 2023, I've been developing my theory that the Key of Aaravos holds a quasar diamond / Aaravos' specific chest piece. One of the main reasons for these possibilities to me, at least at first, was the flash of bright white the cube emits in Callum's intro, despite the fact the Key and light are congruent with making him fulfil his duty as a Pawn to Aaravos (a path that's been decidedly more associated with darkness).

The fact that Callum was looking at the Sky rune, specifically, and its associations with freedom (which later become two fold, both in regards to Aaravos' desire for freedom from his prison and for Callum's desire for freedom from Aaravos / possession) in the scene above already felt purposeful. This would take on a third layer if what puts him on Aaravos' trajectory is him trying to free the Moon fam (and Kpp'Ar).

Which, as we all know, I was already obsessed with trying to figure out if rune cube placement meant anything even before S5 outright confirmed that it tends to, with how much the Ocean rune shows up purposefully in Callum's 2x08 dark magic dream, foreshadowing his repeated use of it in Book 5: Ocean, and foreshadowing that the kids would find the prison in S5 to begin with:

Which also begs the question that, if dark magic is going to lead Callum into Aaravos' clutches (perhaps solely possession as a result)... why not have it also foreshadowed in 2x08? Why focus so heavily on Ocean if it's the final cinch in Aaravos' plan? Unless it's not, and it's not dark magic that's going to pull Callum in, but the core of what it represents that he had to fully accept, through dark magic, to unlock the secret of the ocean arcanum:

Remember how I said the Key might hold a quasar diamond? And what is Callum actively going to be chasing in S6 if not star magic on Rayla's behalf?

And the fact Callum is very much looking at the (upside down) Star rune on the cube in the intro to boot. This makes it seem like Callum being possessed and/or playing into Aaravos' hands (or both) because of his pursuit to free Rayla's parents from the coins (or what may snowball from there) is nearly undeniable, at this point, which is pretty crazy. Perhaps the Key will even be a replacement quasar, in some ways, if one of them stones is missing or has been corrupted (hi Viren's staff)?

#tdp #the dragon prince #quasar diamonds #key to his heart theory #if there is longing on the mirror of my heart #pawns #tdp callum #tdp aaravos #tdp theory #s6 speculation #s6 #arc 2 #predictions #rayllum #like either way it's going to be for rayla and that is. absolutely insane to me that we're actually going to Get It #thank u s4 and s5 buildup mwah mwah #s6 wishlist

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