#who WAS talking about riku being more popular than kairi specifically

[bluerosesburnblue]

I did say I thought it was *in part* related to the rampant misogyny of early '00s fandoms. It's definitely not the sole cause. Honestly I think trying to find a singular cause that's primarily or exclusively responsible for it is impossible because I assume it's really a whole bunch of factors interacting with each other that cause it. (that said, I imagine aku/roku dropped off a lot because nowadays... People get REALLY touchy about it being illegal due to character ages and whatnot)

Yes, but like I said, it doesn't explain why that same thing happens in other fandoms, particularly new ones. And I had discussed those other fandoms previously during this very conversation so it's not like I brought them up again out of nowhere. The fact that I can see the same thing happen in fandoms that are less than five, or even three years old suggest that it has little to do with early 2000s misogyny, if at all. Unless there's significant overlap in the people in those fandoms, which can't be verified in a lot of instances, then I don't find it worth tossing around as anything more than a tangential "it's possible this might have done something," which I don't find helpful

Don't misunderstand what I said. I didn't say that you thought that was the only explanation, I said that I, specifically, didn't intend to commit to a specific explanation. I didn't say that your read was invalid (other than the idea that people grew out of it rather than taking the attitude elsewhere), I listed a lot of alternate factors that probably had a lot more of an effect than the one you brought up and related what you said to other fandoms that I had previously brought up as relevant and how it didn't apply to them, but another explanation brought up previously might and therefore probably had more weight. That doesn't mean that your take was wrong, just that it wasn't the most relevant in the discussion. I think where the disconnect is happening is that you're speaking from a strictly KH-fandom standpoint, where your take is most relevant, and I'm speaking from a wider fandom culture standpoint that, yes, focuses on KH but I'm looking for unifying factors between several fandoms to explain why I can't escape the Riku obsession even outside of the KH fandom, which was... most of the point of my original response to my friend?

Because, again, my very first example was in a fandom without main female characters that's three years old (at best, even. It's only been available in English for one year). It shouldn't have anything to do with those attitudes, unless it was brought over from another fandom. But who's to say that they came from the KH fandom to Twisted Wonderland and it didn't happen the other way around? Or that the person making the comparisons in question didn't enter the KH fandom well after the yaoi heyday? Or was even old enough to be a part of it? You bringing up 2000s-era misogyny means almost nothing in that context, which was the original content of my response to another post. Is it any surprise that I didn't see it as my main focus?

So, yes, you may be correct that it has some part in the Riku obsession, but that part is so small that it's hardly worth mentioning, and it had almost nothing to do with my examples in the original discussion. Especially since that discussion ultimately led into talking about how Riku's popularity overshadows Sora, not Kairi.

#anon asks #liz answers #kingdom hearts #like i'm not saying you said that's the only explanation i'm saying that explanation is mostly irrelevant to my initial point #my initial point being that i can't fucking escape riku favoritism in other fandoms #with the side point of i see the same favoritism happen to characters that didn't exist until this year #'the kh fandom liked m/m ships and was pretty misogynistic in the 2000s' has nothing to do with the post i made directly prior #which was discussing how riku's popularity eclipsed other male kh characters and how i've seen the same happen to other characters #in other fandoms #your ask makes the most sense if you're only responding to the op of the post i responded to #who WAS talking about riku being more popular than kairi specifically #at which point... i'm not sure why you sent it to me #because that was never what i was saying

[glowingbadger]

SFW and nsfw HCs modern day for KH boys? I saw that you were looking for KH requests and I’m happy to provide. (As this is a lot of men, I would specifically like: Riku, Sora, Roxas, Axel, and whomever else you like as well).

HOKAY so. This is a bit of a tangent, but I wanted to throw it out there for everyone since it's in my rules now and it's a bit weird.

The KH characters' ages have put me a in a pretty weird spot lmao. It doesn't come up much if ever in-game, but Sora and the gang do have canonical ages- and by the best current estimate, they're 16, maaaybe 17 as of the end of KH3 (where we're at now)- while Riku is a year older than Sora and Kairi, putting him at 17-18. By my typical standards, this would mean that the OG trio, plus every character that is a version of that trio and/or implied to be the same age as they are, would be underaged and thus not characters I'd write for.

Axel and Saix are actually about 10 years older than the main trio, given the age we see them at in Birth By Sleep (which I feel like a looot of people forget, given some popular ships) but that's why those two, plus all of the "adult character model" types (Aqua, Terra, pretty much all current and former Org members) are fair game.

I haven't decided whether I'm comfortable with "aged up" content just yet. I know some writers have been harshly attacked for it, so I have to imagine it's a loaded issue in fandom.

And as a final note, I simply cannot find it in me to sexualize Sora. He activates a deeply maternal impulse in me. I've caught myself verbally apologizing to him when I let him get hurt as I play lmao. And then on the other hand, Riku is designed and written to seem so much more mature, and very well may be 18- so he's a super weird gray area for me.

SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS This is so fucking complicated and I just don't wanna make anyone (or myself) uncomfy lmao so we're gonna keep it SFW for the OG trio and all characters originating from them for now, whereas anyone of Axel and Saix's age or older is fine for NSFW. Anyway, I'm just laying out my own comfort level.

And with that, let's talk headcanons-

Modern AU Headcanons

SFW Riku, Sora, Roxas

NSFW Axel, Saix

Riku:

- He's in his first year of college, at a good school though maybe not ivy league (he's skeptical about that title anyway). He's double majoring in a couple challenging fields- perhaps political science and environmental biology, or pre-law, or some such. Something challenging, but that he feels will empower him to have a career where he can make an impact- though he'll have to be ready to tackle the corruption inherent in political systems some day.

- He's an excellent student, and held in a place of awe and respect by his classmates. He seems so put-together and confident, despite his challenging class load. Internally though, Riku feels like he's constantly on the verge of an absolute crisis. He's the type who's on top of his studies and absolutely not on top of his mental health, and on the fast track to some serious burnout.

- As your boyfriend, he's an absolute sweetheart, but always wishes he could do more for you. He genuinely cherishes you, but he feels like he stumbles over his words when he tries to tell you, and like he never has as much time to dedicate to you as he'd like. He knows he'll screw up sometimes, or have periods when he can't be as available or responsive as he'd like when his workload becomes overwhelming, but he'll always make it up to you with a painstakingly well thought out date night as soon as he has the time.

Sora:

- He's taking a gap year between highschool and college to travel and do service work in as many different places as he can manage. He's got weird and fascinating friends across multiple countries, and is frankly having a great time being able to do work for various underserved communities while visiting old friends and making new ones. He's grown a modest internet following through short vlogs and instagram- and while Sora's not necessarily good at social media (or anything tech related at all), and certainly never set out to become popular online or anything -his natural charm and enthusiasm is infectious, and his followers flood his comments with support.

- He barely graduated highschool by the by; he could have gotten okay grades, but he constantly forgot his assignments, when tests would be, etc. School was really more of a chance to spend time with his friends than anything else, so the boring stuff tended to slip his mind. Definitely the type to be in a thousand extracurriculars and know everyone's name.

- Sora is the sweetest and most openly affectionate boyfriend- you'll frequently catch him staring dreamily at you like he can't believe how lucky he is, and he has no qualms about bragging to his friends about you. He can be scatterbrained about some things, special occasions and specific wording and such, but he's very emotionally intuitive, so even if he doesn't quite know what to say to make things better, he'll always know when you're upset and do anything he can to help.

Roxas:

- He's starting at a small but relatively prestigious college, somewhere quiet and home-y. He hasn't decided on his major yet, but he's keeping an open mind and staying fairly on top of his studies, while enjoying a small but very cozy and intimate friend group. His favorite way to spend a slow afternoon or evening is just lazing around the dorms with a friend nearby studying on a bed, another playing a game on a small tv, and him scrolling through his phone while they casually chat about any and everything. It's low pressure, but comfortably intimate.

- idk if any of you guys knew someone like this at your work/school, but Roxas strikes me as the type who, because he's a bit quiet, everyone perceives him as super confident and on top of his shit. So while his true friend group is very small and cozy, plenty of people around campus recognize him and call out to him when they see him around, or hype him up to their friends as this incredibly cool, chill guy, despite really not knowing him at all.

- Roxas is fairly oblivious but very sincere as a partner. He doesn't have much serious relationship experience, and he's very aware of this fact, but he desperately wants to be as good to you as you deserve. He'll try his best to express himself with compliments and dates, but really, his love language is best shown through cuddling and physical closeness. He finds holding you to be incredibly reassuring, even while studying, playing a game, or anything else that he's supposed to be focusing on.

Axel:

- He's a musician for sure- the front man for an alt rock band with some electronic influence. They're extremely popular within a niche audience, and their shows are always high energy and with plenty of lights and pyrotechnics (of course lol). Axel himself focuses on vocals and sometimes guitar, though he dabbles in just about any instrument he can get his hands on, constantly experimenting with new sounds and absorbing as much creative influence as he can. While his usual wild personality would make him seem flippant, he takes his music seriously, and it's just about the only thing that can hold his unwavering focus for very long.

- Axel is not an emotionally reserved type, and isn't worried about taking things "too fast," and as such, he'll be more than happy to offer to have you along on tour with him if you like, or even invite you to be part of the music or performance. Still, it is important to him that you get along with his friends, so things won't go well if you're not all having a good time together. Oh and given how shameless he can be, he has no problem with fucking you on the tour bus, not caring for even a second whether the others can hear you struggling to stifle your moans.

- He doesn't have much of a mind for special occasions or elaborate date nights, and sometimes, it can be hard to find time to be alone with him away from friends and bandmates. It's not that he doesn't prioritize you, he just gets caught up in his social life and forgets that time alone together is precious and important too. That said, he's vocal about how attracted he is to you and how much he appreciates you, so you'll never have reason to doubt his affections, and if you speak up and tell him you want time with him, he'll do anything in his power to clear his schedule for you (and then fuck you so nice and deep that you forget you'd ever been frustrated with him).

- If you can't join him on tour, or he's too busy to see you much at home for a while, Axel is the king of sexy voice messages and videos. He needs you to know that he's still thinking of you no matter what (especially since some view his confidence and openness as flirtation, even though he's fully devoted to you), and he wants to help tide you over until he can finally have you again. It's even better when you reciprocate in full; nothing drives him absolutely wild quite like a lewd selfie that just barely covers what he desperately wants to see, or a short voice message just to hear you moaning and panting as you pleasure yourself to thoughts of what he'll do to you when he's home.

Saix:

- Saix works best within a hierarchy and when he has clear goals to work toward, and as such, he does well as the personal assistant and de-facto second in command to a fortune 500 company CEO (not to mention, Lordy, Saix in a suit with his hair tied back? Goddamn). He's ruthlessly efficient, and some among his coworkers find him even more intimidating than the boss- but he does his best not to think too hard about the specific ethics of big-business like this. He's had to sacrifice and repress a lot to make it to where he is.

- Most of his impressive salary that he cares to actually spend goes toward affording a place to stay in the city that's large and isolated enough to give him the peace of mind that only solitude and quiet can lend. That said, he does have a small number of close friends, and while no one knows when this started, it's just assumed that hangouts and get-togethers will happen at his place, since it's the most spacious and comfortable. Saix adamantly denies that he ever offered to host, but he also never turns them away.

- He doesn't have the highest sex drive overall, and frankly, he works so hard and for such long hours that it's hard to find the time and energy for intimacy. That said, when the mood strikes, it's positively fierce; he'll text you to be waiting for him at home in as little clothing as possible, and you'll know he's looking to spend a full night ravishing you. Admittedly, part of his intensity in bed is a way to relieve work stress, but it doesn't hurt that, though he's miserable at expressing it, he's absolutely obsessed with your body. When Saix decides he wants you, he'll bury his face between your legs, milk multiple orgasms from you with his hands, and mark you with bites from your jaw, down your stomach and along your thighs.

- Saix is the biggest sucker for small, sweet and genuine signs of affection. He's not great at it himself, but just seeing a message from you to say you miss him while he's working late yet again turns his face bright red, and he'll spend the next half hour trying to come up with the right reply, only to just end up sending "I feel the same. I won't be much longer." But when he does see you that night, he holds you extra tight, nuzzling his face against your hair. He hates being called out on it, but it's incredibly easy to turn him into a melting, blushing puddle- and heaven help you if you do it to him with friends around. He'll "punish" you quite thoroughly, so you'll only have yourself to blame when you get no sleep and can't stand the next day.

#kingdom hearts #modern au #sora #riku #roxas #axel/lea #saix/isa #kh3 #kingdom hearts headcanons #kingdom hearts x reader #spicy headcanons #x reader

[cloudofash]

The Future of the Destiny Islands Trio - Part 2

Please read Part 1 here.

*SPOILERS AHEAD*

Kairi and Riku : Now

So this section will be far shorter than the last one simply because, once again, Kairi and Riku barely interact throughout the entire game so there unfortunately isn’t much to analyze. I won’t go too in-depth into Kairi and Riku’s relationship in past games since I already wrote a detailed analysis of their relationship in my Jealous Riku series, but I’d like to highlight some points for those who are new to my posts. For one, Riku and Kairi’s relationship has had some tension since the very start of the series. A few cutscenes into KH1, Kairi suggested to Sora that she wanted to take the raft, leave the island and abandon Riku because she sensed that he was “changing” (which was most likely his growing darkness). On the other hand, Riku used Kairi as a tool to guilt Sora for running around the worlds with his new companions, Donald and Goofy, whom he felt replaced him. The conclusion of the analysis of how they treat each other is that they are in the middle of a silent tug o’ war with Sora in the middle. Silent because they don’t outright say they’re against each other but their actions reveal the truth. There is a lot of evidence to support this throughout the series into KH3, even symbolic evidence which I’ll get to towards the end. We will focus on KH3 for this theory but I will reference past games to show that their behavior towards each other isn’t new.

So in KH3, the first time we know Riku and Kairi interact is during the paopu fruit scene. We don’t get to see them interact directly, but when Sora asks why Riku is all alone Kairi responds that he said he needed time to himself so the two must have spoken. Kairi then uses this time to offer Sora a paopu fruit, leaving Riku out of the equation. If we are to believe Kairi and Riku are good friends, wouldn’t she have wanted to share a paopu fruit with him too? Contrary to popular belief the paopu fruit isn’t just a romantic symbol. The paopu fruit intertwines destinies which can be completely platonic as proven by the Wayfinder Trio, their wayfinder is based on the paopu fruit. Even if she intended to share the fruit with Sora romantically, she could have waited until Riku was done spending time with himself to invite him over so he could also share a fruit as a friend.

Say what you will but this behavior is only present in the Destiny Islands Trio group. Aqua, Terra and Ventus all have their own Wayfinder and they all laid them together on Eraqus’ grave, no one was left out. The Twilight Town gang all ate popcicles together, not just the Trio but Hayner, Pence and Olette as well. They even included Isa after kicking his ass around. Yet the Destiny Islands Trio finally have their moment to share a paopu fruit together and Riku is excluded? This was clearly intentional, it’s further evidence of the hidden strain between Riku and Kairi. They’re barely speaking to one another. Kairi acts like a complete opportunist and waits until the exact moment Riku is by himself to share a paopu fruit with just Sora, which mirrors how she wanted to take a raft and runaway with just Sora. When Kairi gets slashed into pieces by Xehanort Riku gasps but barely moves, yet he leaps into action when Sora is blown back by Xehanort. How are we honestly supposed to believe these two are even regular friends, let alone good friends? The story does not set these two up as friends in even the slightest way, at most these two are associates because they both hang around Sora.

Even after Sora is sent off to Limbo, there is no evidence that these two are speaking much. When Leon asks Riku how the others are doing, Riku tells him about the Wayfinder Trio, Twilight Town gang and even Mickey, Donald and Goofy and literally stops there. It takes prodding from Aerith for him to even speak on Kairi. 

This isn’t a small, insignificant detail. Riku doesn’t even think to mention Kairi, could you imagine this happening with any of the other trios? Aqua, Terra and Ventus couldn’t shut up about each other, and neither could Axel, Roxas and Xion once they remembered her. How could Riku “forget” to mention Kairi’s progress, a member of his Trio? These two aren’t thinking about each other at all. We saw Kairi exclude Riku from the paopu fruit scene and now Riku doesn’t even bother to mention her unless someone else brings her up. Aerith isn’t even a part of the Trio, nor has she ever met Kairi in person (that we know of) yet she thinks of Kairi before Riku does? Riku’s connection to Kairi, if there is even one at all, is so weak that characters outside of the Trio seem to have a stronger bond with her than he does. In fact, Riku has a stronger moment with Terra than he does with Kairi. Terra acts like a proud big brother to him when he marvels at how much Riku has grown and that he has gained the strength to protect what matters. 

Hell, Riku has a stronger moment with Roxas than he does with Kairi in the entire game - he literally played tag with him and Terra on the beach in the ending cutscene. This comes after he and Roxas beat the crap outta each other in 358/2 Days, and we never really see the two reconcile or apologize but they seem to be okay enough with each other to race and play.

Sorry for the crappy screenshot quality, it was hard to get since they move fast!

These are the kinds of interactions we need to see with Riku and Kairi. It’s not enough to say they’re friends, if they are truly meant to be friends then it’s time to show it. 

Riku vs Kairi: The Symbolism in Their Names

Aside from the growing amount of evidence in the games that there is subtle tension between Riku and Kairi, we can also point to evidence in their names. No, this isn’t a stretch. Nomura is very careful about naming his characters and Nomura himself explained that he named Sora as he did because the sky represents Sora as a character and his personality. He named Riku and Kairi “land” and “sea” to go along with Sora’s naming convention and to represent their relationships with Sora. 

If we look at the KH3 title screen, we see Sora and Kairi eating their separate paopu fruits and walking off….into the sea. Kairi’s name means “sea/ocean”. What happens when you walk further and further into the ocean? You get further away from land. Riku.

The further Sora goes into the sea, the further he is away from land. The more Sora chases Kairi and centers his world around Kairi, the further Riku is from the trio. And we literally see this in the game. Kairi shares paopu fruits with Sora and leaves Riku out, Sora goes off to save Kairi alone and leaves Riku behind. Both of them have alienated Riku in some way. Riku is accepting this, we see him taking a step back and believing in Sora and Kairi’s relationship.

Riku clearly believes Kairi is what’s best for Sora now, but this goes completely against Riku saying “Sora needs me” in DDD. If we go by the original Japanese dialogue,  Riku’s entire journey was finding the strength to protect his “precious person” (the word used in Japanese is “taisetsu” 大切 which can also translate to “someone dear, beloved”. Ring any bells?), not his friends as a whole but a specific person. That person is obviously Sora, Riku’s journey has been centered around saving Sora. Riku is now at a point where he believes Kairi is the one who is better suited for Sora, to protect him and keep him happy, not him. He’s taking this well and not stooping to jealousy like he did in KH1 but this doesn’t mean that Riku is completely happy about being left out. I will go further in depth for the next part where I’ll focus on Sora and Riku’s relationship.

Kairi and Riku : Future

So where does Riku and Kairi’s relationship go from here? It’s honestly hard to say. If Kairi comes out of her sleep and helps Riku look for Sora, then maybe they’ll finally have moments where they talk and behave like friends. This is assuming Riku decides to include her. After you view the Fairy Godmother scene in the LimitCut episode if you go back into Radiant Garden you’ll have a chance to speak with the FF crew. If you speak to Aerith once or twice she will say “Are you going to tell Kairi?” in reference to his dream being a key to finding Sora. This is an interesting piece of dialogue and it begs the question: why would Aerith ask this unless she had doubts that Riku would tell her? Just something to think about.

There are two ways this can go. Either Riku will not tell Kairi about his dreams and go off on his own to save Sora, or he will tell her and the two will go together. In other words we could end up with either a Riku and Kairi game, or a solo Riku game where he goes to save Sora again possibly Dream Drop Distance style. We will have to see. Thank you all for taking the time to read Part 2, Part 3 will be coming soon!

#kingdom hearts #KH #KH3 #kh3 remind #Re:Mind #destiny islands #destiny islands trio #sora #kairi #riku #relationship

[nadziejastar]

Sora: Don't worry. I've got a friend out there who will help. He's always picking up the slack for me.

I think if it was pulled off well, and Isa was properly differentiated from Saïx, then I don't think most diehard fans would oppose it. Among the general KH fandom, the biggest obstacle in my opinion is that Saïx is extremely unlikable (deliberately so). We never got a big reveal showing how Isa was Norted, like we were supposed to. It's left to the realm of innuendo and subtext.

It's not like it wasn't obvious he was possessed, but it was never stated outright. Still, I thought it was very easy to see where they were going with Lea and Isa ever since BBS. Saïx was very nasty, yet Isa was Lea's best friend. You can just tell that they were originally planning to give Isa an extremely endearing personality, if he was supposed to make up for how bad Saïx was. I'm sure if his backstory was shown in detail, he'd be way more popular. Isa was done dirty.

Riku: Sora can find the brightest part of anything, and pull off miracles like there's nothing to it. It's pretty hard not to smile around him.

Huge Akuroku fans might not like it, but I doubt it would cause a huge backlash or anything. I mean, let's face it. There never was any canon support for that pairing anyways. People are still free to ship it if that's what they want, just like they did when Xion was created as the obvious object of Roxas's affections.

And simply put, yaoi pairings are the most popular ships in KH. So LeaIsa has that working in its favor. SoraRiku is the most popular ship overall, and Lea and Isa were actually pretty similar to them in BBS. Two boys with cute character designs, complementary opposite personalities, and who are really close? KH fans eat that stuff up. I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if LeaIsa was conceptualized, in part, based on the popularity of SoraRiku. I personally think that Nomura wanted to move away from AkuRoku as much as possible due to the inappropriateness of it, so he tried to create an appealing alternative ship.

“That Genie we met seemed really worried about his friend Al,” Xion remarked eventually. “But then he said he’d respect his friend’s wishes. I guess you can’t just jump in and do everything for them, even if you want to.”

Idly swinging her legs, she took another bite.

Axel leaned his head to one side. “Your friend’s wishes, huh…” It feels like I have heard that before, a long time ago, when I was human.

IMO, LeaIsa is what SoRiku would have looked like if it was actually specifically written to be romantic in nature. Sora and Riku had a very strong bond and Riku was very protective of Sora, but it also had that competitive rivalry aspect.

“He worries too much. Thinks he has to help Sora do everything…” Axel grimaced in irritation.

“But, Axel, aren’t you the one worrying about Riku and Sora?” Naminé giggled softly.

“Me, worry? You think I need to be worried about those two?” He stretched backward and rocked the chair back and forth, like a restless child.

LeaIsa had no such thing. It seemed like it was going for a purely protective dynamic, with Lea wanting to step in and do everything for Isa because he constantly worried about him.

“Say something. Have you even thought that maybe I can’t erase Roxas?” Axel said, in a playful tone, and Saïx finally looked up. “It’ll be all right. Cause I’m tough.” Axel puffed out his chest.

“How stupid,” said Saïx, and for a moment he smiled.

Also, not only was Lea protective, he apparently liked to show off for Isa. I just can't read this interaction as anything but flirtatious. It reminds me of how Sora and Riku were showing off for Naminé about protecting her from a shooting star. No other male characters in KH interact this way with each other. And Isa was a shy and softspoken boy who only came out of his shell for Lea. If they managed to emphasize these characteristics and successfully carry them over to the adult version of LeaIsa, then I can't see any reason why it would not be widely supported. I imagine most shippers would find it very cute.

“Why are you talking to me? There are heaps of other people to talk to.”

“I don’t want to talk to rough old men,” Larxene clearly intoned.

“If that’s so—there’s Demyx, or Marluxia, who joined just before you did. And then there’s Zexion. There’s also Saïx, in a way—”

And I think that's exactly the direction Nomura wanted to take them: cute. It would be a surprising but charming twist, considering how rough Saïx was. And I think it's why he specifically gave Saïx a different character design. Axel is very attractive. He is youthful and kinda looks like he's wearing eyeliner, too, which is neat. He was always fangirl bait, basically. Saïx was handsome, but he was still originally made to look like a villain. More rough around the edges compared to Axel.

I have no doubt that Nomura wanted an adult Isa to look more like he did in BBS. That's how he looks in the illustrations that were made after he was changed into Axel's best friend. And I mean, Isa's design is definitely going to be a lot more appealing to most shippers than Saïx's original design. That was no doubt intentional. IMO, Isa was created specifically with shipping in mind. He was obviously designed to look distinctly feminine and pretty. Softer facial features, slimmer build, etc. He has even softer features than Riku, who is also a pretty boy and huge fangirl bait.

IMO, Isa is the single most feminine KH male. I think this was intentional and based on the Sun/Moon theme. Sun is masculine, moon is feminine. So, Isa was also intended to be yaoi fangirl bait, no question. He was meant to be a very cute character. Both in looks and personality. It's why he has the Bunnymoon Mystery Gear and why Axel's fondest memories involve ice cream. He even has cute clothing, like that jacket with the little moon on it. It's just...cute. Basically LeaIsa was going for an adult yaoi vibe. They eat ice cream, play frisbee, and act cute together, since they want to relive their childhood. Done properly, fangirls would eat it up, of that I have no doubt.

In general, there is huge support for same-sex pairings in anime things. Sure, there will always be some opposition, but I don't think it's really a huge issue in these types of niche fandoms which love slash and shipping in general. Look how much demand there was for gay romance options in Fire Emblem. Korrasami was the most popular ship in TLoK and actually became canon. It was warmly received in general.

And KH2 had a very bromantic ending with Sora and Riku. And the series skyrocketed in popularity after that game, so it obviously wasn't a huge turn-off for that many people in the KH fandom. Female KH fans tend to like yaoi and male KH fans are already playing a Disney JRPG with a bunch of pretty boy heroes. In my experience, most male KH fans online don't seem to mind gay characters or anything.

And you know, KH isn't really heavy on romance anyways. Friendship has always been the most prominent thing in Kingdom Hearts. That wouldn’t change. The most canon pairing is Sora/Kairi and all we see between them is paopu fruits and hand holding. Even if LeaIsa were unambiguously canon, I still think it would be depicted in a very subtle way. It's not like it would have to be shoved in everyone's face, or become a distraction.

IMO, Nomura originally intended for them to be an ambiguous (but heavily implied) gay pairing. If the series didn’t have so much corporate interference, it would have remained that way in KH3. They even kept Isa’s outfit the same. The little star and crescent pin that Isa wore in the epilogue is a sun and moon symbol. All the games were building up to Lea using the power of waking on Isa in KH3. 358/2 Days was able to imply that Axel/Lea loved Isa, and that was fine because it was a smaller release that flew under the radar. 

Then suddenly in KH3 their relationship was not okay and had to be downplayed. I don't think that was a coincidence. KH3 had more than just the JRPG audience in mind. KH Days was a JRPG with Disney elements. KH3 was a Disney game with JRPG elements. Disney was a lot more strict with KH3 since it was a bigger title and had modern stuff like Toy Story and Frozen in it. Even if LeaIsa was ambiguous, who knows if Disney had any objections to it or not. They can be very conservative.

I think Square and/or Disney was definitely worried about casual fans disliking it. KH3 had a much stronger push to appeal to casual fans than any other game in the series. And let’s face it: a large percentage of people playing KH3 probably only played KH1 and KH2 (or it’s their first one). They didn’t play BBS or the “spin offs”. They don’t know Isa, they only know Saïx. 

And I can see many of them disliking the ship if it became canon because of that. KH3 clearly wanted to keep things familiar to causal fans. Incorporating Lea and Isa’s REAL backstory into KH3 was not a priority. Familiarity was. So sadly, Lea had to go back to being Axel and Isa had to stay Saïx. Then there’s people who just play for the Disney aspects and don’t even like the story. They might not like it, either. 

#leaisa

[effervescible]

KH2 meta thoughts

Finished Kingdom Hearts 2 in my great series replay today, and I have a bunch of thoughts about narrative and story structure and character bits that I’m gonna slap down. Originally posted on plurk so forgive the rambliness.

Playing KH2 again with the full series knowledge but years removed thanks to fannish hibernation was a really interesting experience. It helped me sort of step back and look at the story as a whole, the game itself and its place in the series, and the structure of it.

The Riku-Sora stuff remains really, really good. I'm not going to say it's perfect but I can't think of anything specific I would change without changing the general story. Since my last jaunt through Disney hell, I've become extremely partial to games that meld gameplay with story and themes, and KH2 does that really well with Riku once he joins the party. I super love that his most frequent reaction command is a shield. Kid evolved from a darkness brat into some kind of paladin protector. And that little fist bump on their limit break, ahh. And all the stuff on the beach is just *chef kisses fingers* No complaints there Oh and storywise, even though we only see Riku's true face at the end and he's absent for so much of the game, his presence is felt throughout so his arc from KH1 to Reverse/Rebirth to KH2 feels really good and continuous

But god, they did the girls dirty. Everyone's written a thousand angry words about Kairi and how she just gets shoved offstage and they are 1000% true (why give her a Keyblade in one scene and do nothing with iiiiiiiit) but right now I'm more asspained about Namine. Her story in Chain of Memories is so good and her promise with Sora to become real friends is this important thing before a break in the story, after which we naturally assume it'll happen in some way and it just doesn't. (Can someone tell me if the scene between Riku and Sora before fighting Xemnas where Sora says he wanted to thank her but couldn't was added for Final Mix or not? It felt new to me but I legit can't recall whether it was there in vanilla KH2 or not.)

On an in-character level, I get why Namine would be focused on Roxas. Holy shit, someone just like her, someone she's very connected to through their births! But it's not good storytelling to just kind of drop things with Sora. Also she doesn't even get to go back to Kairi onscreen! I do like the eerieness of her started to distort through proximity to Kairi. And I like that she gets to face the Organization again but this time she isn't afraid. But goddamn does her story just kind of trickle to a stop. She's low on my list of priorities for Sora needs to save, since I'm most concerned about characters who got actively fucked over and she chose her fate, even if that choice was informed by a lot of emotional abuse. But I really hope she gets something more in KH3 if they're getting the band back together

On that note, (inhales, steeples fingers) Roxas.

Roxas has some of the most amazing moments in the game, even at the end, but his story is also where the game feels really disjointed. Not quite the same as Namine, where her story just sort of fell apart; the pacing is really weird with Roxas-related stuff. Back in the day, I came away from KH2 having enjoyed the game but feeling ultimately disappointed because here was this kid who clearly had an important story and an important friendship and we never learned much about either. I still feel that way to a degree, but having Days in the back of my mind made a big difference. Not so much for the specific events in it, because during most of my playthrough I wasn't really thinking about Xion or the specific happenings of Roxas' year in the Organization at all. But having them in the back of my mind gives him an extra narrative weight that feels lacking looking just at what we know of him in KH2.

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense, but looking only at KH2, it feels like they were writing Roxas with the idea that he'd experienced certain emotions more than that he'd experienced certain events. Which is fine, but it does sort of feel like he's just Sora's foil--a beautifully written foil, but not a full character of his own. But add Days into the mix and even if it doesn't change any of the following story, it feels like there's more heft to it. This kid still suffered a tragic fate, but that tragic fate happened to a person and not just a narrative device.

I will say that this playthrough made me 100% understand why people used to characterize Roxas as being very serious and moody most of the time. Even aside from the serious and moody flashbacks with Riku and Axel, late in the game, when you're doing the Organization boss rush and the references to his time in the Organization are flying fast and furious...I don't know, I just got a very strong sense of melancholy, that his life there wasn't a good one. (Related, Saix asking if Roxas hadn't taken care of Riku really sounds like they meant for Roxas to have done it on Organization orders, but then that doesn't fit with the game's stated timeline of Riku fighting Roxas after he betrayed the Organization. Still, an interesting idea.) But Roxas' story kinda peaks with his fight against Sora and then falls down. He's the elephant in the room the entire game, always in the background of Sora's story and the things Sora hears and feels. And then they never even talk. His last spoken scene should have been with Sora, not Namine.

Again, it makes characterization sense that there would be a bond there, because as far as they know they're the only people like each other that exist. But they were pushing the Sora-Kairi parallel way too hard to the detriment of the storytelling. I mean, it's great that in a way you'll get to see Namine every day, but don't you have anything to say to your other self over here...? The scene in Dream Drop doesn't feel like a fix-it for me, it feels like a narrative conclusion that got lost and resurfaced a few games later. Luckily, it was pretty much note-perfect in my book. But to me it feels like the conclusion of Roxas' KH2 arc, not an addendum. He might have another one depending what happens in KH3, but emotionally, that scene belongs under the same subhead as all of KH2.

Final Mix made a big improvement to things Axel-related. In vanilla KH2, yeah, Roxas does finally get pissed off enough to force a heart fight with Sora after Axel's death, but otherwise you'd almost wonder if their friendship was one-sided, there's so little aftermath. But their final clock tower scene is fantastic and even without knowledge of Days, you get a good sense of what their friendship was like.

It is kind of funny that, once you know that Axel was originally going to die sooner and got more screentime (and more importance, generally) due to popularity, you can really tell. Because there's so much stuff in this game you wouldn't necessarily expect him to have a lot of screen time, but he's absent for a really long time and then shows up without warning and dies immediately. But in all the post-KH2 games, even the prequels, there's definitely a sense of This Is An Important Character.

Overall, coming away from this, I feel like the biggest difference between KH2 and all the games that come after it is that they are building up to something and KH2 is kind of playing in its own sandbox, not really looking ahead to what's coming next. At least until they added the BBS hints. It might be absolute bullshit and they had no idea what they were going to do with the characters until KH3 development began properly, but BBS-Coded-DDD-0.2 all give the impression that there's a road map they're following. Less so for Days, but that they pointedly tie in the fallout of Days to stuff that's going to happen. But KH2 feels like more of an end point.

THESE ARE MY EXTREMELY EARNEST FEELINGS ABOUT THIS DISNEY HELL-GAME, COME TALK TO ME ABOUT THEM or just slink away rolling your eyes, that's cool too.

#kingdom hearts #roxas #riku #axel #namine #kh2 #meta #kh meta #good god jaina do you have this much to say about a disney anime game you are a grown adult #clearly yes i do #i'm in hell and you're all coming with me

[themattress]

Something the KH Series forgot...

Kairi’s KH Screentime = 28 minutes.  Add the numerous dialogue exchanges you can get out of her talking to her at Destiny Islands and Traverse Town and it would be around 30. 

Riku’s KH Screentime = 27 minutes. Add his Final Mix scenes and it’s around 30 as well.

Yes, 25% of Kairi’s screentime is her lifeless body, and Riku’s body has additional time on screen as part of Ansem’s screentime, but the bottom line is that the original Kingdom Hearts actually gave Kairi and Riku, Sora’s two homeworld friends, an equal amount of time, character development, and importance to the plot, which is as it rightfully should be.

Kairi’s KH2 Screentime = 38 minutes.  Dialogue exchanges you can have with her in the World That Never Was don’t really add to her screentime this time, since now the text boxes come up full in just a second upon pressing the Triangle button, and goes by just as fast.

Riku’s KH2 Screentime = 37 minutes. Add his Final Mix scenes (like the linked video does) and it’s 40 minutes.  And again, text-based dialogue exchanges don’t qualify for screentime.

And note that this is not including Riku’s time as “Ansem”, as that time is played with him as a deliberately mysterious figure who speaks in a monotone voice and does DiZ’s dirty work...and after the prologue, he stops speaking at all whenever he briefly appears.  In terms of meaningful screentime as Riku that develops him, it’s only in the World That Never Was.

Kairi, meanwhile, has close to 7 minutes of screentime in Destiny Islands and Twilight Town prior to the World That Never Was.  There, however, most of her screentime tends to be as just part of the heroic team rather than a focus like she was in all of her KH scenes.  After reuniting Sora with Riku, she doesn’t do or say much until she has to merge with Namine.  

But regardless of the specifics, Kairi and Riku once again have an almost equal amount of screentime, with Riku pushed a little over Kairi by just one extra flashback added in Final Mix, which isn’t even unique to KH2 as it replays as part of the ending of 358/2 Days. Riku gets to do some important things and Kairi gets to do some important things, and they are still treated as major characters in the plot and as precious friends to Sora.  The people who complain about Kairi’s lack of screentime in this game while ignoring that Riku has just as little are either absolving him because he’s a party member in the last world (only possible because of Kairi, btw!) or are just plain misogynistic (par for the course for the KH fandumb.)

So then, the question is: what the Hell, Square Enix?  Why did you stop doing this, opting instead to phase Kairi out of relevancy while pushing Riku more to the forefront and began emphasizing his relationship with Sora at the expense of their relationships with Kairi? 

Never mind, I know the answer: pandering to the aforementioned misogynistic fandumb. That’s been the big problem with the KH series past KH2, it’s been made more exclusive and geared toward the fandom at the expense of mainstream casual players.  The most vocal in the fandom hated Kairi, and so she was deemed poisonous when it came to attracting fans to buy games and got all but written out while the more popular pretty-boys got emphasized.

Now, in some ways this started in CoM when Kairi and Riku were both absent from the main Sora story mode (replaced by Namine and the Riku Replica respectively), yet Riku still appeared by getting his own story mode. However, at least there Kairi was an important presence in Sora’s story given Namine’s connection to her and how Sora’s memories of Kairi were the entire key to the Organization’s plan, and her friendship with Riku began to be developed by showing that Namine had to pose as her in a vision to get Riku to trust her.

By contrast, Kairi’s ties to the plot of 358/2 Days are shallow and end up being a red herring, she’s barely in BBS, and she just plain isn’t in Coded and 3D...she’s hardly even mentioned in them!  All while Riku and his ties to Sora are played up in all of them, because that’s what the yaoi fangirls want to see. If KH3 fucks Kairi over again (or even more than it’s already set to by putting her alongside Lea), then screw the KH series, its makers, and its fandom.

#Disney #Square Enix #Kingdom Hearts #Riku #Kairi #Screentime #Analysis #Truthbomb #Sexism #Misogyny #Fandumb #Double Standards #Bad Writing #Jumping the Shark #This Franchise Got Screwed Up #Anti-Square Enix #Anti-Nomura #Anti-Tetsuya Nomura

[nadziejastar]

If BbS V2 really was what you theorized they might have been better off planning it as a series of shorts. A game about filling in the gaps of other games was probably a very hard sell for executives, regardless of how much the overall saga would benefit from it. With shorts it would be perfectly normal to jump around, there wouldn't have to be a flimsy excuse to shoehorn in Disney worlds if they weren't necessary for the story, and it might even be cheaper if 2D animation was acceptable.

— So what will it be?

I can’t say that quite yet, but it will be more “official” than a side story. I actually told the producer this recently, and he said “…what?” It’s the mystery KH. (laugh) Of course, I am also thinking about KH3.

— In an interview in the KH Days Ultimania, you said ‘I’m thinking of a mystery KH that made the producer go “what??”‘. Was that KH3D?

No, it wasn’t. I originally planned to make that after KHBBS, but we ended up making KH3D and the project was stopped. It’s a shame, but we won’t be starting that project again.

I think you are correct. The premise of the game seemed very weird and that’s probably a big reason why it got cancelled. But the story still really needed all the loose ends tied up in some way. FFXV got a short animated series called Brotherhood. I totally think KH3 could have benefited from something like that to fill in all the blanks. And fans would love seeing a 2D animated version of KH. I know I would.

The biggest issue the series had was that it was spread out across so many different handhelds. But the HD collections solved that problem. If the shorts were included in the HD collection, or made freely available, it could have worked really well. It’s no worse than making so much of KH3′s plot tie into Union X, which is less accessible than Brotherhood, for example.

A game about “blank points” was probably just too weird from a gameplay perspective, which I understand. I also agree about the Disney worlds. That also seemed like it might have been an issue. KH games suffer when the Disney worlds aren’t incorporated well. This isn’t an issue in games that feature new worlds like KH1, KH2, KHBBS, or KH3D. Even Days was mostly fine IMO. The worst offenders were CoM and Re:Coded which felt like the Disney worlds were just obligations and their plots were tired rehashes. KHUX Disney worlds were also very strange, too. Even 3D was weird since it used sleeping worlds. Stuff like that is why the series gets lambasted as being too confusing/convoluted.

— What about the missing 0.3?

We thought to tell the story of 0.5 with all three characters, but instead we decided on 0.2 with a focus on Aqua.

Honestly, I can’t even think of how Disney worlds would be incorporated into a lot of the “blank points” story. Nomura said KH0.5 was supposed to feature all of the wayfinder trio. Does that mean they would be playable? I dunno. Aqua was in the Dark Realm. That was a very unconventional world. It had Disney-themed locations, but it’s still not technically a Disney world. Story-wise, it was also unconventional, since she just spent all that time talking to herself until she briefly teamed up with Mickey.

I have no idea what Nomura planned to do with Ventus. Dream world? Or flashbacks to how he met Xehanort? Or he just wasn’t gonna be playable? Then there’s Terra, who was living as apprentice Xehanort and possessed. I don’t see how that functions gameplay-wise, unless it was something weird like you playing as the Lingering Will or something. There was the whole subplot of Namine communicating to the Lingering Will, which was poorly handled.

— Which worlds did Pluto travel when he had that letter?

I can say that he appeared in worlds that do not appear in the game [KH1]…. well, other than the current worlds, there are other worlds that the Heartless erased. The End of the World did not exist at first and is a world that is made up of erased worlds put together. Also, there is that place the door to Kingdom Hearts appears. At first that was another world, so that means that Sora and the others are now residing in that world which returned to what it once was.

— After debugging Traverse Town, the King says to Sora, “That day, your travels began here. Also on that day, I was here too.” Does that mean that the King was in the same place at the same time as Sora adventured into Traverse Town in Kingdom Hearts I?Seems so. What he was actually doing becomes the previously mentioned “blank time period”, but in this title, it’s implying that the two crossed paths in the same place.

Mickey probably would have been playable. In Blank Points, we saw him in the Dark Realm, and his blank period in Traverse Town was something Nomura specifically said he wanted to show. I guess he might have visited Disney worlds with Pluto and we could have played in those? I don’t know if that world that was shown in the end of KH1, the grassy place with the crossroads, was supposed to be important. It sounded like Nomura wanted to explain why Pluto was there with Mickey’s letter, though.

— About the World of Darkness and such, you haven’t gone into detail. Could you possibly talk about some of these things? Does the beach at the beginning and end of KH II have some connection to the World of Darkness?

Presently there are 4 main untold stories to consider: “the period of the King’s absence”, “the period of Riku’s absence”, “Roxas’s time in Organization XIII” and “Xehanort’s past”. In this case, the story of “the period of the King’s absence” is set in the realm of darkness. I am examining a way to tell these 4 stories so I might be able to find a way to tell them soon.

Young Xehanort’s past was another blank period. Him visiting Disney worlds is…possible, I guess. The best candidate for visiting Disney worlds is Riku, though. Nomura said he wanted to cover Riku’s period of absence, which probably includes KH1-2. In KH1, he was a bad guy and in Blank Points, he was shown in Neverland. Monstro is another possibility and that might have been intended to connect to the Monstro subplot in KH3D with Dark Riku. We also saw Riku in Twilight Town watching Roxas and Xion, so his Days period is open. Then there’s his period of absence in KH2, which opens up those worlds. In the novels, we know Riku spent most of his time in KH2 with Namine and Axel, and he also kept an eye on Sora, like during The Land of Dragons and the Beast’s Castle.

I didn’t notify you but you might’ve already heard from Yen Sid-sama. I’ve come to train to become a Keyblade wielder. Until now, I’ve only been waiting for you guys to come back from your journey. Maybe with this I can at least help out a little.

The magician Merlin-sama can use magic that surpasses time. Here, we can forget about the flow of time. Isn’t it great? Lea’s training with me. He apologized to me over and over again. It’s alright, I’d say, but he’d keep on apologizing…

At first I was a bit scared but as we trained together we started talking to each other. I found out Lea also has a best friend he wants to save. I felt like, he’s not a person that I can bring myself to hate…

Sometimes….. He’d stare at my face, so I’d ask him, what’s wrong? “I don’t know, but I feel like it’s something I must recall”, he’d say…

Your journey is a journey that will help many people and the people you’ll meet from now on. I have a feeling these people you meet will also need your help. The journey might be hard but please stay as the cheerful and bright Sora I know. Because your smile, will save many hearts…..

Then there’s Lea and Kairi. I guess we could have played through their training and the world could be based on The Sword in the Stone? I figured that was what the forest area in KH3 was supposed to be, but I dunno. Then they could have flashbacks during their training. I think we were definitely supposed to get more scenes of Lea and Kairi talking to each other, where she learns that he has a best friend he wants to save. It was obviously referring to Isa. KH3D was all about Lea looking for him, and he summoned his Keyblade immediately after learning that Isa was a vessel.

It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to see where that subplot was going. Lea was training to rescue Isa. Roxas being Axel’s “best friend” in KH2 was supposed to be a red herring—a pretty well-written one at that. People just didn’t pick up on it due to Roxas’s popularity bias. I doubt Lea would have told Kairi all the details of him and Isa being human test subjects. Like, she still didn’t understand why he didn’t wanna take off his black coat in KH3. But he’d tell her enough to know that he has a best friend who is a vessel and we’d learn what happened. It would have made their closeness in KH3 a lot more understandable if Kairi knew about his past. In his heart, he could tell that Kairi was Xion, too. And that’s how I’m gonna do it in my fanfic. :)

After KHBBSV2 was cancelled, Lea had no backstory anymore, so I guess we were just supposed to conclude that Lea was referring to Roxas in Kairi’s letter when he said he wanted to save his best friend. Which is just…dumb and insulting to the audience’s intelligence. Lea knew even in 358/2 Days that Roxas looked like Ventus. He said he kept it a secret from Roxas, so he obviously knew for a long time. It sounded like he realized it as soon as he met him, which is why he got so nostalgic for his childhood right after meeting Roxas.

Before he started his training with Kairi, he also knew that Ventus was one of the lost Keyblade wielders they were all looking for. Up until Yen Sid’s tower, Lea thought that Ventus was going to remember him as Axel. That’s how he was going to reunite with “Roxas”. He had no reason to think he needed to rescue “Roxas”, since that was Sora’s job and he was handling that. Of course he was referring to Isa in that letter.

Eh, I dunno. It’s possible we’d get to play as young Lea during his flashbacks in Radiant Garden. During the experiments, maybe he was tasked with Heartless clean-up duty inside the castle. He doesn’t have a Keyblade, though. Just his frisbees. It’d be unusual to have him be playable, but not impossible. If so, that opens up the castle, like the Hollow Bastion areas from KH1. All in all, the gameplay part of BBSV2 seemed pretty strange and the Disney worlds didn’t seem completely necessary, either. I think a series of animated shorts could have worked phenomenally well.