#trigun stampede meta

[feverdreamsandlucidnightmares]

I keep thinking about moral vs ethical authorities and actions in the Trigun animes. I hope this ramble about it makes sense.

I think most of us will agree that morality is perfectly capable of secular development and is unbeholden to religion in general, though religions can certainly serve as a moral authority and inform specifics. But they are not, or at least not the only, source of morals.

And while ethics and morals are often used as synonyms, they do actually have different meanings. The short version is that ethics are the rules and standards of a social system/culture/etc and morals determine what a person individually thinks is wrong or right. Often, people’s morals and ethics follow the same principles and authorities. They don’t have to, though.

Functionally, let’s say that ethical choices are social goods, and thus social authorities are the ethical authorities within a given society or culture. Much like laws and power structures are meant to protect and benefit the people they govern, a social or common good is something that benefits the largest number of people within a society. In Trigun, these authorities include the Bernardelli Insurance Society (in a limited capacity), the JuLai/July military police, the Eye of Michael, and (notably, but discretely) Millions Knives.

There’s plenty of speculation on and textual implication within Trigun Stampede that Knives and Conrad having their hands in a lot of JuLai’s governance and polices. This is where the moral value of the ethical systems in place becomes questionable.

There are a lot of implications to unpack within an ethical system potentially developed and controlled by a genocidal semi-immortal being using it as a shadow government. The abridged, most important point is that there is no reason for Knives to be a part of a system that allows humans to flourish, build community, and grow. There is every reason for him to convince/allow everyone to think that he is.

A social good is one with the support of those in authority. It has no innate moral value. Laws and orders from unjust governments do not absolve anyone of the weight of their actions. But they determine who is punished.

So, the Eye. The church of No Man’s Land. A social authority for people in Hopeland, at least to some extent. Enough so that the orphanage cannot stop the Eye from taking its children. And Windmill Village to a much larger extent. So much so that its people volunteer their children as sacrifices. And it’s implied to have a much wider reach than just that. The Eye of Michael is a cult that preys upon the planet’s most desperate. Rollo - sick and poor and unlucky. Blessed. Made new, made whole (everything down to his emotions tampered with). Monev the Gale. Wolfwood and Livio - orphans and poor. Wolfwood, the handpicked Child of Blessing. The perfect candidate to be a child soldier. Nicholas the Punisher. Livio, the volunteer. The good and faithful brother follower. Livio the Double Fang. The other Gung-Ho-Guns. Dominique the Cyclops, Midvalley the Hornfreak, Rai-Dei the Blade, E. G. Mine, Leonof the Puppet-Master, Hoppered the Gauntlet, Caine the Longshot — volunteers? Desperate people doing desperate things? Or violent people playing at divine intervention? Social authorities in their own right, in the sense that they can do what they want without repercussions from the masses. They answer to Legato, to Knives, not to the traditional governments of No Man’s Land.

And Legato has been desperate. He would kill almost anyone before suffering that again. He would die to escape it, too. Life holds so little meaning to him. The end is near and he is both hierophant and harbinger. He lays no claim to justice, only ruin, but it’s all in Knives’ name.

Knives, who plays god. Who puts a bounty on his brother’s head to drive him back to him. All that power, he gets to determine what is wrong or right and people can either agree or die. It’s easy to see where his morals fail, but there isn’t a higher power to enact justice. So, he has the authority, what goods does he perform with it?

It’s also important to note that Zazie does not perform moral or social goods. Zazie serves themself, for their own betterment. And this is not a moral failing because applying human morals to a multi-consciousness conglomerated hivemind controlled collective of bugs can’t make sense. Zazie is all of the wams on No Man’s Land. All of their collective experiences in the species’ existence. All of their lives, all of their loss. It’s all Zazie. And Zazie believes that the needs of the many (themself in all their facets) outweigh the needs of the interlocutor few (humanity, Plants). Tentatively willing to coexist and adapt, unwilling to accept their own destruction. Allies or enemies. They work with Knives until it no longer benefits them. Very utilitarian.

Nonetheless, the Eye of Michael and its chosen crusaders, its sychophants, its priests are a definitive social and tentative moral authority within No Man’s Land. So, who can tell Conrad that he is performing anything other than a social good by doing his experiments? He claims he’s trying to save humanity and the only authority over him wants humanity dead. A flawed system. The Gung-Ho-Guns perform social goods by killing whoever they are sent to exterminate. This, of course, includes Vash without regard to whoever might be caught in the crossfire. Vash, who unwittingly takes the blame for his brother over and over. Vash, who has a bounty placed on his head by his brother and his misguided puppet government. Vash, who is being mocked and chided, his bounty the same as the cost of a new Plant. Vash, the Humanoid Typhoon, legally an act of God, the first “human” natural disaster. Destruction in his wake.

Wolfwood performs a social good by betraying Vash. He has the authority to justify his actions through his ordainment.

And Wolfwood performs a moral good by saving Meryl. It’s the first unilaterally moral good he performs in Trigun Stampede. That’s important. The thing about Wolfwood is that he knows the difference between moral and social goods. He knows whatever values he’d like to act on don’t align with his orders, but there’s always other lives at stake. Wolfwood doesn’t kill because he’s particularly bloodthirsty. He’s pragmatic. Other people have to die to keep the orphanage safe. An unfortunate, but necessary cost that he’s willing to pay. Until he isn’t anymore. Monsters don’t need morals, but if Vash can afford them maybe he can, too.

And normal, everyday people perform social goods, too, by trying to stop bank robbers and bandits and the Nebraska Family. And Vash. Those are ethical decisions, stopping criminals threatening your home is ethical. You just have to remember who determines who the criminals are and why.

Your moral and ethical authorities, ideally, should be in alignment. This is not a utopia, so they aren’t. And these random people living on the planet he forced them onto are continuously subjected to the so-called social good of Knives enacting his divine plan in order to force Vash’s hand. They are a necessary sacrifice for his greater good. The greater good that is Knives’ Eden, that is a world remade in his image. Vash remade in his image.

#trigun #trigun stampede #tristamp #trigun 98 #trigun stampede meta #trigun 98 meta #ethics in Trigun #morals in Trigun #tristamp Zazie #bc tristamp Zazie is always more interesting to me #tristamp Rollo|Monev backstory #trigun spoilers #trigun stampede spoilers #trigun 98 spoilers #trigun rambles #vash the stampede #nicholas d. wolfwood #millions knives #meryl stryfe #livio the double fang #gung ho guns #zazie the beast #feverdreamsandlucidnightmares

[mega-ringsandthings-world]

Another thing I just noticed on my 500000th tristamp rewatch is that Knives is piloting the escape craft/pod. The scene goes by so fast that the details are hard to notice, but they’re there. Which I guess isn’t a big deal at face value, but if you consider that someone had to teach Knives how to handle the craft, then it becomes a lot more interesting to dig into. And someone definitely did teach Knives, and they taught him very well. When Rem brings them to the craft, Knives goes ahead of Rem and Vash and jumps onto right seat and he does it with a little-grab and jump that speaks to ease, he knows where to go and where to sit. Meanwhile Vash is being coaxed onto the craft by Rem and he crawls in with a lot less grace while Knives is already sitting down. Knives has his sea legs, he knows how to get on and off of the craft, he’s comfortable with it and in it from what we see already, Vash is not. Knives has clearly spent time with this craft or something like it, because he knows it, and Vash obviously doesn’t.

When Rem shoots them out of the hatch Knives grabs at some lever? it looks like a joystick or a like manual transmission stick for a car so it’s definitely some kind of control, when he touches it several displays spring up and he’s constantly looking offscreen to them throughout the rest of scene. But before that, he physically yanks Vash back and against his seat when Vash reaches for Rem, and it’s only then that Vash and Knives’ harness/seatbelts engage, and it’s only then that Knives goes ahead and grabs that lever. So Knives knows the systems of the ship, knows when and how the safety protocols will engage and knows how to work navigational controls. (Also, while they are flying backwards out of the escape hatch not once does Knives look up to Rem, while Vash is still reaching for her the entire time, but Knives keeps his attention down on the controls)

When they are out of the ship, in the wide shots we get of the escape craft, we the see it actively dodging debris and the other freefalling ships around it, which, it could be that the craft has built in AI piloting capabilities or built in defensive maneuvers, but that’s rather unlikely for a simple escape pod, so it’s Knives who’s maneuvering the craft via those controls we saw earlier. And he does it extremely skillfully. Not once does the craft come into contact with any of the debris or even come close to any danger except for the explosions, but those are given a wide berth too. We talk about Vash dodging Matrix style, but that’s what Knives is doing here, albeit in another context. And that can be his plant reflexes/abilities at work too. On the planet surface we see the escape craft has landed relatively intact, and both Knives and Vash are physically (not mentally though, R.I.P to Vash in those scenes) unharmed, so Knives landed the thing without much incident.

All this is to say, who taught him? Well, Rem, of course. Rem was the on-duty navigator on SEEDS 5. She was responsible for keeping the ship on course and/or even piloting it at times, and it’s likely she taught Knives a lot about her work. Naturally she would have offered to teach both twins at first, but it was  Knives who would have shown more aptitude for piloting, he excels in things that require precision and focus, (playing the piano, planning genocide over a century and a half, he’s very quick to work the screens when searching for Tesla’s files) and all throughout out the above scene, he was extremely focused, in direct contrast to Vash, who was scared and distraught. While piloting skills were something that Knives could have learned from databases or the ship’s AI, it’s just simply more likely that Rem would have taught him, she was on-duty while raising the twins and probably had them around while she actively worked, and she taught them about her job or they picked things up themselves(see Vash knowing how to work the engine controls on the Sand Steamer easily and knowing the nav codes for reference) and piloting is something that does require a hands on-approach and a suitable teacher. And Rem would have had the time and access to teach Knives.   And perhaps that was another reason why Rem was so willing to stay behind on the ship, she knew Knives could fly the craft and fly it well enough that he and Vash would arrive safely on the planet below. There was no hesitation when she took them to the craft, she put them in there with the confidence that they were going to make it, and more then anything that was due to Knives knowing how to fly the craft. Tl;dr, Knives was piloting the escape pod from SEEDS 5 ship, and Rem was the one who taught him how to do it, and the reason he was so good at it.

#trigun stampede #trigun stampede meta #tristamp #vash the stampede #millions knives #rem saverem #rem trigun #rem tristamp #vash tristamp #knives tristamp #tristamp knives #tristamp vash #tristamp rem #trigun #trigun analysis

[finalmoment]

there's this thought I'm trying to put together, about Vash and how he feels about people and his nature. spoilers for episode 7 & beyond of trigun stampede (and everything before, obviously)

obviously, a lot of Vash's chronic desire to save people comes from his guilt about Knives and being his accomplice—from feeling partially responsible for where humanity is now, which results in the need to make it easier for them. he can't stand the situation they're in, and he believes they deserve better, and he believes it's his job to give them that bc it was his fault they lost that ticket to a good future.

but Vash is also a plant.

here's what i know about plants so far: they're sentient, and they have feelings. sometimes they sicken and die, and Vash can communicate with them. also, they help humans stay alive through their ability to synthesize everything humans need on a hostile planet.

but the thing is, humans don't just need food and water. the basics are not enough. they also need companionship, a hand reaching for theirs when they're dangling off a cliff. they need a second chance, and a third one, and a five hundredth chance. they need someone to care about them, unconditionally and totally, no matter where they come from and what they've done. they need love.

all of which are things that Vash repeatedly gives humans. he's spent his whole life doing nothing else, as far as possible, even when it ends badly and even when it was a bad idea from the start. it's like he can do nothing other than love, like he's helpless to act against that nature.

even if he draws his motivations and reasons from a different place, i think it's incredibly cool that Vash is so plant-like in his absolute, inhuman love for people and his commitment to not just their survival—though often that's all he can ensure—but also their thriving. as though he's meant to take what the rest of his species does to the next step, at the highest cost to himself, to pave the way for their mutual future, and to do it all the while on purpose, fully aware that what he's saving may not ‘deserve’ it but it's not his place to make that judgement.

#notes #trigun stampede #vash the stampede #trigun stampede meta #pls don't spol me for other trigun series! I'll look up lore after the season finishes #*spoil

[granny-griffin]

I'm still obsessed with the scene in trigun stampede where wolfwood stands there holding a cross and says "you only get one life and sometimes you have to hurt people to protect it." on the one hand it's incredibly ironic because that's literally the opposite of the gospel. he's supposed to be a priest and he's completely and fundamentally misunderstood that the guy he's representing has both an immunity to death and a battle strategy of just letting other people hurt you

but what I didn't realize until almost the end of the series was that this moment is also incredible foreshadowing. because wolfwood isn't actually a real priest, he's a member of Nai's cult

hey, you know who the first person to preach the anti-gospel was? a fallen angel trying to play god

#trigun stampede #cw christ #trigun meta #trigun stampede meta

[chibivesicle]

Trigun Stampede - Episode 6 - Wolfwood’s tragic backstory, now? Eeeehh?

Episode 6 dropped yesterday and I had only enough time to watch but not anything else.  After watching it, I just felt meh wringing my hands about how when I first heard about the reboot at Anime Expo last summer I was so stoked for a more through Trigun anime.  And we get this version from Studio Orange which I really wanted to be an enjoyable watch - buuuuuut - meh.  You’re killing me Studio Orange.

Since I didn’t have time to get to it yesterday, I pestered my good meta friend Merdopseudo to see what she thought as well, so I’ll be highlighting some of her points here as well since she’s great at catching things I miss or summarizing well.  As indicated by my summary title, I’m quite confused why they decided to lead with Wolfwood’s even more tragic backstory in this version of Trigun than in the manga.

We start off the episode with a fleeing masked member of the Eye of Michael (though they haven’t been named yet) who tries to kill Wolfwood and fails as he destroys the man.

We get even red eyes as he lines up his aim before the man dies.  And he’s wearing his sunglasses even at night!  Wow, maximum badass.  Why? Wolfwood needs to be a maximum badass, that’s why. Furthermore, so many scenes in this anime seem to feature full moons all the time.  Just an observation.

After the opening we return to the quartet in the November News Bureau SUV.  In the backseat, Vash and Wolfwood are pouting over something and Meryl jokingly asks if they are having a spat over candy.

This line feels like it was delivered in poor taste.  I get she’s trying to defuse the situation but are we to think this is due to Wolfwood shooting Rollo - last night?  Or a few days prior?  What is our pacing? What day of the week is it?  How much time has passed?  Any clue would help us out here Studio Orange.  I’m going to take the easiest option and say that they are pouting about the fact that Wolfwood killed Rollo - last night.

Roberto then suggested that they need to finish their job.  This would mean abandoning the SUV and taking the Sandsteamer to July and I guess check in with a Bureau office there?

He’s clear that he wants Meryl to take the steamer but it was vague if he was going to go with her or if he wanted her to take it for safety. Uncle info dump isn’t info dumping this episode much.

They end up separating from Vash and Wolfwood who both board the Sandsteamer.   Wolfwood gives Vash shit for seeming to have no emotional connection to Meryl and Roberto - which really it a valid reply.  It hasn’t been that many days that Vash has known them.

It has been even less time for Wolfwood to know Vash and he’s sticking to him like crazy glue, again being an ass.  Honestly, there is NO chemistry between Vash and Wolfwood in this version, Vash runs and tries to not kill people and Wolfwood gives him shit and kills people.

Meanwhile, Meryl is working hard to convince Roberto that they need to continue to track the Humanoid Typhoon.  Interestingly, that she doesn’t call him Vash, but by his destructive nickname here.  She pulls out the photo with young Rollo asking Roberto if he’s scared.

We don’t get a clear answer from Roberto if he’s actually afraid - I felt he isn’t afraid of Vash per se, but instead realizes that his youthful appearance is some sort of indication that dangerous stuff surrounds him.  More that he wants to avoid Vash out of a sense of - I dunno - not dying.  This episode will frequently use the word monster to describe Wolfwood a lot and Vash as well.  This is the writers trying to get us to connect the two of them and make us feel that they should be friends and a dynamic duo - which they aren’t currently.

We see people at the Ferry Terminal waving to those on the steamer which in this version is called the Humpback.  Interesting shift, as in the original the Sandsteamer was known as the Flourish and was a Humpback class.

In other versions, children were excited when it came, being Sandsteamer nerds.  I’ve been following too many historical sewing/clothing youtubers for the past few years and I keep getting vibes that the clothing for normal people in this sci fi series is more 1910s-1920s and not late 19th century western dress.  The boater hats, suspenders, knickers, newsboy caps, lack of women with bustle action etc.  I know it is a future sci fi series, but it does seem that they tried to modernize the clothing to at least be early 20th century to fit the sci fi vibe more.

On the steamer there is a route map telling use they are leaving the Terminal - which literally is just a single terminal in the desert?  What?  Ports develop around such locations but this is just a terminal. 

It is also hilarious that the Terminal starts somewhere in ‘Central America’ crosses part of the Great Sand Ocean, there is the Hopeland Orphanage in ‘Africa’ stops West of ‘India’ and then loops around ‘Australia’ only to reach July in ‘Southern China’.  Really guys, you just took a world map and smooshed and distorted the proportions.  We also get to see a tall man with the modified Zia-Cross symbol of the Eye of Michael in Stampede. 

Back when I first saw the early previews, I caught a glimpse of what was his back in an action shot and my first thought was - what? Are they using a Zia in the anime when it has some important symbolic meanings?

Stampede has been clear it has shifted very far away from the Christian aspects of the original work.  Since this is based on a Western style anime/manga we get this mixed vague symbol which I’m certain is a visual hybrid with the Zia.  If one were to travel through the Southwest as a tourist, you would inevitably see a Zia in some form with the most obvious being that of the New Mexico state flag.  The flag is yellow with the red Zia in the center representing the Zia sun symbol.  This symbol originated from the Zia Pueblo but has come to include more Pueblo groups, Hispanic native New Mexicans to just New Mexicans.  You live in New Mexico?  Lots of government documents, logos and all sorts of stuff will have a Zia symbol.

A simple way to summarize it is that it captures New Mexico culture - for example a cycling racing team is known as Zia Velo and they represent southern New Mexico.  However, if the Zia is applied out of a New Mexico/Pueblo context things get stickier.  I also think with a Japanese audience, a symbol which is built on groups of four wouldn’t work for the viewers so they took elements of the Zia from a Southwest inspired image board and called it good.  Four is the number of death for East Asians versus for the Zia, four is a scared number that captures key elements of life.

Anyhoo, I got distracted by the interesting looking symbol for the religious group on our desert planet.

Vash finally gets around to directly asking Wolfwood what his job is and he replies that he’s babysitting him. From Wolfwood we can understand that it is his ‘job’ to make sure Vash gets somewhere.  Or at least those are the orders that Wolfwood has.

Their conversation doesn’t get very far since Livio appears on the scene almost immediately and shoots at both of them.  We have a much more clean cut and slick looking Livio with a slim build and his two smaller guns along with a modification on his face and a mechanical sounding eye.

Vash fights back and it able to get close enough to fire at point blank range, but of course doesn’t.    We know he doesn’t want to pull that trigger, but it seems none of his modified opponents could care if they are in a tight spot.

It takes a little bit of time for Wolfwood to recognize who this man is and it ends with him asking if he is Livio before the title screen flashes. 

The anime then takes a shift to a 2D style of animation with silent film style titles showing how Livio came to the orphanage and Wolfwood was the longer taking care of the ostriches.

As Livio settles in, Wolfwood becomes his friend trying to get the crybaby to stop feeling sad at missing his parents.  He gets him to help out in the bird pen, and there is a cute sequence of them becoming childhood friends.

Older Wolfwood, tries smoking like an adult all cool and shares it with Livio who coughs.  We get a close up of Wolfwood running off with Livio hand in hand where in this flashback Wolfwood has a much darker skin tone in contrast to Livio being exceptionally pale.

We get it, there was a time when Wolfwood was cute and he was friends with Livio.   The flashback goes back to the present and Meryl and Roberto chasing after the sandsteamer when the Bad Lads gang shows up on sand sail boats.

They are taking this idea of the Great Sand Ocean quite literally and I don’t know how I feel about this.  I’m still wondering why it even exists but this is a sci fi desert series paying homage to lots of other sci fi desert tropes.

Interestingly, we have no idea if the Bad Lads Gang have taken Meryl and Roberto hostage, just that they’ve been surrounded.  I also guess there will be no scene with Kaite, the son of the chief engineer of the original Flourish.

Wolfwood’s flashback continues that he’s been selected as a ‘Child of Blessing’ just like Rollo by mysterious church.

There is a weird psychedelic flashback were Wolfwood is a test subject and shows S+ levels of possibilities.  This is clearly a term added for the Japanese audience as the States does not have this type of ranking which is a trope specific to Japanese media.

The original Trigun did not make references to S+ and I honestly don’t remember the term coming up in Trimax either.  We get that Wolfwood is subjected to all sorts of crazy stuff and due to his response to the treatments he’s a good candidate for furthering efforts.  Just like the breakneck pace of the anime, his own physical development is rapidly accelerated - much more so than with the manga.

We still don’t have a clear timeline, but if he’s ten or eleven at the start, but he’s I dunno twelve now?  As the original anime put it, he was taken in as a child and trained by Chapel the Evergreen for ten years before striking out on his own for an unclear amount of time making his age over twenty.  The manga has the unclear timeline where you’d think he was around twenty at the end, but maybe seventeen.   Either way, manga and ‘98 anime Wolfwoods were more emotionally mature and had seen things.   This version of Wolfwood might be a super-powered twelve year old for all we know. Which I am not a huge fan of this angle.

For fun he’s stuck on an inverted cross examine room table and called a monster for emphasis. Yeah, let’s slap some basic Christian imagery down but it has no meaning since that’s been cut out in this version.

Of course, being likely only twelve, he tries to escape his now adult form declaring he’s returning to the orphanage before getting caught.

As I stated previously, I wasn’t a huge fan of younger Wolfwood in the manga since it has a character disconnect where he had this world weariness that did not match his age nor life experience.  But I could forgive that a little since we saw him as an older teen training under Chapel.  Now, he’s a man with a child’s mind.  Yeah.

With his attempted escape, he is only stopped by Legato.  This is another huge deviation from the anime and manga since Legato doesn’t even know what ‘Chapel’ looks like in the manga.

Their first encounter was at the Church at Jeneora Rock and the assembly of most of the Gung-ho Guns.  In contrast, he’s immediately on guard since Vash told him about the strange and dangerous man he’d encountered on the bus to May city/Augusta.

For the sake of oversimplifying the plot, something that Merdopseudo and I had been predicting, Legato is the one who reveals that all things lead to Knives.  The Eye of Michael is not an independent organization!  It is all a part of Knives noble plan for the the future.  This is lazy writing.  The whole regenerative capsules and religious assassin organization were independent of Knives and only worked with him due to a shared goal of sorts.  Legato tells Wolfwood he’s been signed up for the Eye of Michael.

And apparently, since Wolfwood still has willpower to fight Legato, it makes him unique and declares that he doesn’t believe in any god.

Wolfwood has gone from being a flawed, trapped principled man with some sort of religious core to an atheist.  Okaaaaaaay Studio Orange - not sure where you are going with this at all. 

Legato brings in Livio who wanted to join Wolfwood and it is clear at the moment that Livio’s backstory has been completely retconned and he’s the younger brother character for Wolfwood to worry about.

Legato comes off as bizarrely cold and unemotional in this version.  In the anime he was a man clearly bent on a dark and destructive agenda, but I would not call him unemotional.  If anything Legato had a huge amount of pretentious pride in his nihilism.  It was a defining feature of his character and in the manga his intense emotions and nihilistic tendencies were even more over the top. 

This Legato - just a cold blooded robot.  Conrad shows up with his own Project Seeds jacket in white, symbolic of his role as a staff scientist.  It also has me wondering how old he is in this version.  Our Doctor has to stop Legato from killing the promising young Nicholas for the greater goals.

The flashback ends and Vash and Wolfwood are arguing again as Vash is interfering wanting to help.

Vash managed to pin down Livio in a rather smooth action sequence with lots of empty shells bouncing around as he tries to figure out what is up when he calls out Wolfwood’s name.

This catches Livio’s attention who says that he needs to catch up [to Wolfwood] and easily launches Vash off into the air while Wolfwood randomly declares that he can’t let the two of them kill each other.

So, when did you become friends with Vash, Wolfwood?  You only showed up in episode four and here in six you are his friend?  You’ve had no bonding!  There was no foray into the desert to rescue a child or bus ride.  No tournament or situation with a runaway kid where your philosophies aligned and clashed.  You haven’t gotten drunk together.

But hey, we now have Wolfwood’s flashback and we know he cares about Livio his adoptive younger brother who can’t kill his other friend Vash. This. Does. Not. Work.  I see two random men in sunglasses who just argue with each other.

Zazie the Beast and Livio approach the Sandsteamer as Legato reads the ‘bible’ of the local religion and the two characters mock Wolfwood and his pinch.  Legato has decided emotions are for losers and Wolfwood has those pesky emotions!

We get it, Wolfwood is different and you are having fun watching him suffer.

They drive close enough to the Sandsteamer that Legato is able to stop an internal mechanism inside the the locomotive that causes it to veer off course.  It seems that Legato has leveled up in his own abilities instead of manipulating people to do things against their will.

I guess Legato is officially an ESPer instead to make him easier to understand.  I will miss that manga scene with the transport truck and the Calvary and the blood dripping onto the sand below. 

By diverting the steamer, it now is on a collision course with the Orphanage - which is apparently the entire town?  This is as confusing as the Terminal being a Terminal alone.

At the same time the Bad Lads Gang have appeared.  And with our simplified plot we know - they were brought here by Knives.

Why do Legato and Zazie the Beast care what Wolfwood does next?  If they see themselves above human emotions why do they care at all?

And with that the episode ends on a cliffhanger. 

We will learn in episode seven what happened to Meryl and Roberto and perhaps the man himself will appear.  B.D.N. that is!

My immediate reaction to this episode -

Wolfwood’s backstory was way too soooooon!  Far too soon!  Was this even earned Studio Orange?

For a few points, I’m going to tap some of my conversation from my good meta friend Merdopseudo.

1.) A good stand alone episode.  Technically, and by itself this was a good episode.  Merdo points out it is fine as an episode but its structure is also its weakness, indicative of the issues that have plagued the series.  Where does this fit in the overall structure of the story?  What purpose does it serve in advancing the plot?  The episode is fine.  You can watch it and be entertained.

2.) Wolfwood’s backstory is unearned.  We get Wolfwood’s tragic backstory far to early into the plot.  He appeared two episodes ago, seems to be a dude who is rude and will kill if necessary.  We don’t know what it at stake for him.  What does he do normally?  Where is his moral compass?  What is he doing in this whole mess.  Why do we even care?  Right now, Wolfwood is a kid with a big fucking gun and apparently had a friend named Livio.  The found brothers trope also falls flat despite the technically excellent 2D silent film flashback.  The backstory in this episode is just ‘put there’ in an attempt to humanize this version of Wolfwood.

3.) Vash and Wolfwood are not friends. Yep, I will continue to say this.  They are not friends.  Wolfwood is an annoying guy following Vash around because those are his orders.  They have not bonded in their adventures, nor have they argued about how to act.  They both jumped into save a girl, rode the bus to May city/Augusta.  They in the anime had more bonding at the competition and fought over the rights of the individual versus the rights of the collective.  In the manga the bonding is a bit later but still happens over several volumes and Wolfwood gets tied into Vash’s heroic antics from time to time.

4.) The pacing is paradoxical.  This is Merdopseudo’s best point.  With the predicted 12-13 episodes, this story needed tight-super tight plot beats.  Instead, individual episodes are slow while the combined episodes are rapid leading to this disconnect.  This is the best highlight of the writing problems that have plagued this series from the start.

This ties into what I have also been most critical of - the pacing.  There is no room to breathe between episodes yet, certain episodes linger and waste time on things which are unnecessary.  This is a lot of the CGI scenes of how E.G. drove his wheel or how Rollo was watching Vash dodge and stuff like that.  Or the man with the lights guiding the Sandsteamer out of port.  Just lots of strange shots that visually look cool but don’t help the story.

Which gets back to Merdo’s theory that this is all just a demo for Studio Orange for future projects and investors.

And as this continues, I become more pessimistic that this indeed is the purpose of Trigun Stampede.  Studio Orange took on Stampede because it was a low risk project.  They updated the look for a more modern audience and don’t have to worry about upsetting the original fans of the anime or manga since it was domestically a flop and obscure.  Clean it up with characters that are for the domestic audience, simplify the plot beyond recognition and make it dazzling to the eyes.  It is only 12-13 episodes, it will pull in better projects in the future.

Studio Orange isn’t going to care about the non-Japanese, specifically very likely vocal American fanbase.  We aren’t there buying the new merch at Animate. Hell, it is currently and annoyingly out of print with Darkhorse here in North America.  Why keep all the elements that made it a smash hit elsewhere?  It doesn’t help their bottom line.

Thus, Trigun Stampede is a product that does not take the elements of the original anime from Studio Madhouse and the lore of Trigun Maximum to deliver a cohesive product that gives us the magic sauce that made the original so good.  It was never their intention to present us with faithful adaptions of the original series and characters.  They clearly don’t care for the original themes, character morals, questions, struggles, successes, failures and sacrifices that made the original such an emotional high hitter.

Quick character notes:

1.) Our dud duo - Meryl and Roberto.  For once, Meryl sticks to her guns and is able to guilt Roberto into continuing.  Good for her, but doesn’t amount to much in terms of plot.  She stood up for herself and made a valid argument and her senior colleague agreed.  Wow.

2.) Vash.  Is more assertive with Meryl and Roberto away from him, and finally asks Wolfwood what his deal is.  He has some decent fight scenes with Livio but honestly, doesn’t do much else in the episode due to the Wolfwood heavy plot.

3.) Wolfwood’s premature backstory.  Fails his character greatly.  Wolfwood is a character of great nuance, moral struggles and lots of questioning in a good way.  We see none of that and get his backstory upfront almost as quickly as Vash’s.  This attempt to humanize him without knowing him does not serve his character.  This also doesn’t work with his previous religious associations which are why he was a more powerful character in the original versions.  We know he believes in God, though he’s not naive enough to believe that faith in God will solve his problems.  If anything he sees that humanity’s flaws and dark sides force humans to become devils at times (a line both used in the anime and manga).  The anime leans in much harder with the priest aspect of his character with his first and last confession in the church before he dies.  The manga instead has him die at peace sharing a drink with Vash as he’s ‘thanked’ by the younger children of the orphanage.  Either way, both of these endings for him show that he’s a man who has a moral code derived from a very Catholic theology and he struggles with balancing that with his own actions trapped between powers greater than him.  He has a clear line between acts of divine beings such as God and Angels and how it is impossible for a single individual to meet those and instead must learn to live with their actions and how painful it is to directly contradict your own moral code.

4.) Legato Bluesummers is a ‘robot’ with a bad haircut.  This version of Legato is not the nihilistic, self-destructive one of the anime and manga.  He mocks others and sees himself as superior to orphans like Wolfwood. He wants to watch a moral quandary but does Wolfwood really have a moral dilemma? Is he religious or is he reading a religious text to mock it due its emphasis of faith and emotions?  Like Wolfwood, his power is also much greater, if this were the original he would have made that random train engineer dude destroy the moving part while dying in the process.  Now, he just goes ‘whoosh’ and it breaks.  Boo - I miss his sadistic tendencies. 5.) Livio is another ‘robot’.  But with a hangup to be like Nicholas!  I bet.  Unless, he also gets a long flashback, his character has been likely completely retconned to the extreme.  Lazy writing would indicate that Razlo the Tri-punisher was a result of his mind splitting due to the experiments.  That’s my prediction if we do get his backstory.  Not due to other things . . .

6.) Zazie the Beast.  Is weird.  Look, I’m playing cat’s cradle and I made a spider web.  Humans are so dumb, mwahahahahahaha!  I’m also filling in for Leonof the Puppermaster with my insect spycams/drones.

My snark is coming out in my character responses here, but really are these characters with depth or characters checking boxes like a game of Bingo.  I’m curious to see how many of my predictions pan out in future episodes of if they will leave us in the dark. 

As far as themes, this episode doesn’t really have one that stands out. Other than adults treat children very poorly in this place and even if you are a masked religious woman, you have to have big tits.

#Trigun #trigun stampede #trigun anime #trigun stampede meta #trigun stampede episode review #Vash the Stampede #vash #nicholas d. wolfwood #wolfwood #meryl stryfe #roberto deniro #legato #legato bluesummers #zazie the beast #livio #livio the double fang #razlo

[jooniely]

I gotta get this out: I haven't watched or read the original trigun so my knowledge is strictly from stampede SO:

The themes in the show are insane and there's multiple reasons and readings to why things ended up the way they did but I'm gonna focus on love, specifically the unconditional love between Vash and Knives.

Their love is destructive and toxic. To each of them, the other is an enemy, is doing the unforgivable (siding and protecting humans who destroy and hurt plants vs wanting to wipe out humanity to save and protect plants) but they still hold onto each other. Neither of them have given up on the other. They constantly try to bring the other to their side repeatedly despite failing each time.

Their love is destroying the world. Vash refuses to give up on his brother and doesn't really oppose him to stop him either. He instead destroys himself by helping humans to offset what his brother is doing. You can argue that he's letting knives go on when he can stop him but won't cuz he loves him and wants to save him. (That's an unfair thing tho vash shouldn't be responsible for his brothers actions)

On the other side, knives also refuses to give up on his brother. He claims that all the destruction is for vash cuz he loves him (I don't think this is the full truth, he does love vash and part of his actions is for him but mainly its for himself and self preservation and his need to make sure he wouldn't end up like tesla and that no plants are hurt by humans) he claims to love vash but he sees him as weak and as human so in his mind he's doing the right thing out of love to turn vash into a full plant. To remake him. He doesn't see it as violating vash, as torturing and killing him (kinda the way the humans were doing to the plants?) His love (and fear) is leading to destruction.

Their love for each other is different and some would say either of their loves aren't true because it's destructive and hurts the other. But the point is that in their own perspective, they're doing everything out of love or in vash's case not doing anything out of love and its leading to Armageddon.

Also maybe if humans weren't horrible and didn't do the shit they did to tesla and some dumbass didn't give a child the Bible maybe none of this would have happened 😃

#trigun stampede #vash the stampede #millions knives #trigun stampede meta #trigun stampede analysis

[tetitous]

I'd really like a Tristamp OST analysis, I've been listening to TRIGUN STAMPEDE and Vash The Stampede back to back and I'm going insane that I still am looking for a meta that isn't about the plant motif or MILLIONS KNIVES.

I mean, sure those OSTs appear only during like ep 1 and 2, but they're litteraly the themes that are supposed to represent the whole show and its protagonist, it's kinda telling something, right?

#btw the plant motif appears in both but idk if anyone has already mentioned it #trigun #trigun stampede #tristamp #trigun stampede meta #tristamp meta

[revenantghost]

Man, there are a lot of great (and very true) posts about how Knives doesn’t see his fellow plants as individuals, but this was the moment I really first had that gut-punch realization. I’m sure there are no rituals for laying a plant to rest, but it’s incredibly fucked up to take a corpse, writhing in pain, and string it up for your own motivation. Your own selfish purposes. The afterlife is something fairly present in the Trigun universe, and this soul surely isn’t at peace

#Trigun #Trigun Stampede #Tristamp #I think I made a shitpost about this scene while watching it JUST TO COPE #IT'S SO FUCKED UP MY DUDE!!!!!!!!! #My Trigun Meta #Trigun Meta

[h4venpha]

me when baby knives who had just as shiny, sparkly, big ol downturned eyes as vash. so full of wonder and joy and curiosity!!!

poor baby :((( pls look at his gentle eyes and little sheepish smile

#i swear i posted this earlier but my shit was lagging #anywya i have This ig #millions knives #trigun stampede #trigun maximum #trigun maximum knives #trigun knives #knives angst #vash the stampede #trigun manga #trigun #trigun nai #trimax angst #trigun meta

[paenling]

i love creature Vash but im also obsessed w/ the fact that, according to Trimax, he does not have any superhuman capabilities beyond his longevity + durability -- like all of his physical strength is because he's been working that sigma grindset for 150 years or something. granted he has "inhuman" skill because he's had a longer time to practice than most, but he's doing things the human way. Knives hates humans and distances himself from them in favor of using his powers for EVERYTHING (see: he doesn't know how to jump through a window without getting hurt) but Vash just works out for 3 hours every morning. all his agility, marksmanship & ace gunman swagger is 100% natural skill and dedication.

imagine being some motherfucker with unfathomable eldritch knife powers who thinks he's an angel sent from God, only to be shown up by a fitness enthusiast pool noodle with a willingness to bite

#trigun #vash the stampede #shitpost #meta #text #headcanon #or not perhaps

[feverdreamsandlucidnightmares]

I’m having too many thoughts about about Trigun Stampede and it’s probably nothing, but here we go (beware some very heavy handed religious comparisons/symbolism)

This is somewhere between actual meta/character analysis and fanfic, but whatever:

Nai

You are a child and to the best of your knowledge you are one of the only two beings like you in existence. You are a child and you are told that your creation was miraculous, that you are perfect and the future itself. You are neither Human nor Alien, you are simply Other. You are better than either. Unflawed. You are a child and you see the species from which you were created, a species that was artificially created as a means to an end, live out their entire lives in captivity, in servitude. You are taught they are non-sapient, perhaps even non-sentient, and without free will. You exist to serve too, but you resent this. You resent that you are meant to be like the humans, to pretend that you are one of them. You find humanity contemptible and resent their endless wars and conquest and enslavements and pain (you have had a relatively painless childhood). And you read their scriptures and feel confident in your knowledge of humanity’s failures and inherent depravity. Their religious histories are teeming with injustice, with pain, and war and famine. You are a child, but you are intelligent. If this is what they believe in, what can you do? What Good can they really do? You begin to Doubt.

You discover another of your kind, a third, and she has been taken apart and studied by these humans. You are being raised to love them. You don’t. They love you like a dog loves a bone. You can only destroy them before they destroy you. You are intelligent and full of what can only be righteous fury, and you make them Fall. Your brother resents you, resents the deaths, is terrified and hurt and you have to Save Both of You.

Some of the humans survive. You twist them into their own downfall. You take their scriptures and turn words to weapons. It is an honor to serve you, you are an angel, a god, salvation and creation at your fingertips. Death, too. You are owed this for the depravity you and your kind have been subjected to. (You don’t realize, or maybe you no longer care, what you are subjecting them to.) If your brother will not join you on your mission he will die for it. For the greater good. (Who will survive your greater good?)

Wolfwood

You are a child and you aren’t raised to be nice, but you try to be kind. You protect your little brother. You are smart and strong and independent and you care too much. You are raised to believe in a very present god. No one tells you if he is a loving god or not. His angels and priests take you away and it is an honor to be chosen, to be god’s child of blessing. (It is a relief to be taken so no one else will be.)

You go through hell, you live in purgatory. Maybe it is still hell, your skin no longer feels like your own and your hands are bloodstained and fit only around the grip of a gun. You are not allowed to die. You find out your little brother isn’t either. He’s in hell too, but not with you. The god you serve is not a loving god, nor are his angels kind. You are god’s righteous man and you bear a cross and all of the weight of the blood spilled on it, by it.

You are a weapon and any morals you might have grown into are collateral damage. You would do anything for your family. You have done Everything for your family. They don’t mourn or look for you, the blessed chosen one.

You have free will. There is also a gun to your and everyone you’ve ever loved’s heads.

You aren’t sure if you’re a person anymore. (What greater good requires monsters like you? What god would create demons?)

You follow orders. You don’t believe in anything. You could fill oceans with the blood you have spilled. You are told if you follow this last order you will be free and your family will be safe. You aren’t even supposed to kill him, just lead him to his death. You’ve done so many horrible things, this pales in comparison. And you’re already in hell.

You find him. He’s the kindest person you’ve ever met and he doesn’t want to hurt anyone. He takes on as much hurt as he can, sometimes more. He saves your family without even knowing, and he saves them again when you sell him out. He doesn’t hold it against you.

The first thing you do as a free man is try to save someone. You have decided you care enough to try, just this once. The world still ends. And you still aren’t allowed to die. Better people have already died for you. For your sins.

Vash

You are a child and you love your family very much. You aren’t as special as your brother, as useful, but you love learning and exploring and people. You see the good in everyone. You are terrified when you discover another being like you and your brother, terrified by how she has been treated, by her being a secret, by what else the person you see as a parent might be hiding from you. But you trust her and love her and inevitably mourn her. You are taught to love and serve humans and it is your life’s work.

Your brother makes your world end and says you helped. Everyone you’ve ever cared about except him is dead. You are terrified and you spend the next century atoning for not knowing better. For loving, to continue loving. You are not loved in return.

You do your best to help everyone you can regardless of species. You are special too, it turns out, and bring hope and peace to your people and to the humans, at least for a little while. And you try not to be dangerous. You want to be harmless and you never quite pull it off. You don’t tell anyone the whole truth, but the secrets aren’t enough to keep you safe forever.

You make friends and you don’t have long together. You think you must be bad luck, and you forgive your friend for leading you to your biggest fear. You have to confront it anyways, it’s not his fault. He’s cares about you, but it’s not his job to protect you.

You confront your brother. He destroys everything again and he uses you to hurt people. Again. Your people, humans, what could survive his greater good? You fight back, you win. Kind of. Maybe. A Pyrrhic victory. You are alone and the world hates you for the destruction you tried to prevent. They always do. Why are you the devil when you just want to help?

#trigun stampede #tristamp #trigun stampede character analysis #trigun meta #kind of #trigun stampede meta #trigun #vash the stampede #nicholas d. wolfwood #millions knives #this is very specifically trigun stampede #not the ‘98 anime or the manga #trigun stampede spoilers #trigun rambles #feverdreamsandlucidnightmares

[mega-ringsandthings-world]

Funny little thing here is how Knives is always cutting off arms in stampede. Barring the reveal of how Vash lost his arm, the first act of physical aggression we see Knives commit on-screen is to sever the E.G Miner’s arms. Then he cuts off the arms of various Jenora rock residents, Nebraska’s arm in front of Vash.  Which could be a coincidence, but it really isn’t. Because Knives doesn’t go specifically for arms until after he cuts off Vash’s. In stampede the circumstances in which Vash loses his arm are markedly different that in other iterations, Knives cuts it off to save Vash from his Gate, but the loss of his arm is what pushes Vash to reject Knives him a second time.  Knives isn’t infallible, he isn’t a stone-cold, quite the opposite. What he did to Vash strongly affected him even if he never shows it outright. His penchant for arms is a twisted show of his guilt, he cut off Vash’s arm, the one person on the planet that means anything to him, that is anything out of all the other living beings he hates. So he goes for the arms of his victims, whether consciously or unconsciously, to make up for what he did to Vash, or to assuage the regret and anger at himself. He takes from the humans the same thing he took from his brother, and the more he takes, well, the more the he’s hurting who should have been hurt.

#trigun #trigun stampede #millions knives #vash the stampede #knives tristamp #knives trigun #tristamp meta #trigun stampede meta #trigun meta #knives millions

[finalmoment]

trigun stampede episode 10 spoilers

so i talked about this in my initial impressions post, but as roberto is dying he tells meryl something i found very interesting: "you can run if you want." in the same breath he hands her his derringer, marking an important character moment for meryl, but i want to focus for a moment on this message he's passing on.

throughout trigun, both meryl and vash - our resident idealists - are basically characterized by their inability to not chase down a problem to its root. when they see something they're scared of, something that might hurt, their first instinct is always to go right up to it and see what they can do about it.

and generally, this doesn't end well for them - it especially does not end well for vash, however, because unlike meryl vash does not have a roberto yanking him back from danger and reminding him of his limitations. throughout the preceding episodes, roberto's drumming one message into meryl's head: you're just a reporter, you're not a hero. you don't have to be a hero. only the privileged get to sling the word coward around. you don't have to nearly die to prove yourself, it's enough to survive.

meryl being meryl, does not learn this at all. and i sincerely love her for her idealism as much as i love vash. they're great parallels against each other, with different origin stories and arcs but a similar tenacity and determination to do the right thing, and it's beautiful.

but roberto's message is an incredibly important one nonetheless, and it's one that i think action heroes like vash are not supposed to hear, narratively. the story would fall apart if vash was the type to think that just surviving is enough. it wouldn't be the same story anymore.

but as a person, if you imagine him as real and imagine that his well-being trumps the needs of the story, it's the one message he most needs to hear: that his life is enough, that he doesn't have to prove himself, that he can just survive. you can run if you want to, if you're scared, and it doesn't make you a coward -- it just makes you human. except that vash is not human, and therefore will never take this message in the way roberto means it when he says it to meryl.

even so, i wish vash had gotten to hear from roberto just once that it's alright to give up sometimes.

#notes #trigun stampede #vash #roberto #trigun stampede meta

[granny-griffin]

I cannot stop thinking about—okay remember the part in trigun stampede where nai tells vash that humans are hopelessly evil (while holding a bible)—and vash doesn’t really have a response

I mean he has his whole “I’ll just keep running away! I’m vash the stampede!” bit, but that’s not a refutation of the point so much as a refusal to acknowledge it—even nai is like “after all this time that’s the best you can do?”

and it just seems very clear to me that vash hasn’t read the bible, or at least he hasn’t read much of it, so he can’t use it to refute nai’s interpretation, and his experience with humans seems to support what nai is saying, so he can’t use that to argue either

it’s so hope punk nihilist! really I think that’s why this anime is so popular—vash is still holding on to hope, but he doesn’t have a reason for it—because it’s a seinen anime! he isn’t allowed to have a reason for it!

which brings me to part two of my thought—the shonen anime my hero academia also has a pair of brothers who have been at odds for centuries. All for One wants to become a demon king like the villain in the comic books he used to read as a kid, and his brother Yoichi wants to be like the main character, captain hero

But when All for One insists that the two of them are equal and opposite forces, Yoichi refutes him—he’s like, “Stupid big brother—you didn’t even read the whole series! Don’t you know that the demon king loses, and that Captain Hero wins at the end?”

And basically I’m just obsessed by the juxtaposition of these two scenes—because if you know anything about the bible, you know that Nai’s claim about humans being hopelessly evil is as ridiculous as AFO’s identification with the demon king—they’ve both noticed real elements of the text they’re dealing with while managing to wildly miss the central point. It’s ridiculous to read a standard super hero story and come out with the idea that you’re supposed to emulate the bad guy. It’s ridiculous to read the bible and come to the conclusion that the only way to get rid of human evil is species genocide.

But only Yoichi is genre savvy enough to spot the error—I can’t get it out of my head. I just keep turning over and over the alternate universe where trigun stampede is a shonen, where vash has read far enough to reach 1 Peter 3:15, where he responds to Nai with, “You moron, did you even read the whole book? Don’t you know that self sacrifice is powerful enough both to change evil humans and to defeat fallen angels who claim to be God?”

#trigun stampede #trigun stampede meta #bnha #bnha meta #salt and light #cw christ #mha #mha meta #hey! griffin!

[chibivesicle]

Trigun Stampede - Episode 9 Millions Knives - ‘Cause Knives needs awkward backstory as well

This week’s episode decides to compress things even further by making part of the flashback a shared one for both Vash and Knives.  Stampede is leaning in hard to the hyper intelligent virtuoso trope for Knives with him playing a large piano that has inverted key colors.

His hairstyle and clothing indicate that this is the continuation of the flashback that Vash started in episode eight but we are getting it from his point of view. As he plays he thinks back to his childhood where Vash joins him at the piano.  Vash seems to be really enjoying it, but young Nai is not thrilled.

Honestly, could he have been even more grumpy when he was a kid?  I get that they are different individuals and have different temperaments but this version from Studio Orange makes the contrast even greater than in the manga. They do play together, but since we don’t get to see Nai’s expression with the camera angle from behind can we tell if he actually is enjoying it as much as Vash?  In all of their interactions, it seems like Nai simply tolerates Vash’s existence - like he’d be fine without a twin brother.

The flashback in a flashback returns to the first one and a much younger version of Conrad enters telling Knives that he got something for him.

This is a completely new version of Conrad as his original design was always older and bald in the manga.  An alarm sounds and they end up moving to the large bay with rows and rows and rows of plants.  Knives is visibly angry as he asks what is going on.  Conrad calmly replies that they’ve hit their production limit.

As was the case in Trigun Maximum, they force the plants through their ‘last run’ where they overdrive them to death.  However, unlike the manga, there has been no discussion on the physiological changes that indicate plant aging with their hair turning black yet.  Knives is not happy and a weird black ash floats through the air as Conrad apologizes to Knives on the behalf of all humanity.

And it is perfect timing as the plant whisperer, Vash has appeared.  Knives takes this as his opportunity to prove to Vash that he’s right in regard to everything (I guess based on his immediate need to boss Vash around).

More humans show up and try to get Knives to leave which is just a weird set up.  They said he wasn’t supposed to be there, Vash somehow just strolled into their crashed ship.  You aren’t doing a good job of controlling access copy paste humans who see plants as tools.  Conrad just awkwardly stands there telling them to not take Knives away.

What is this entire situation?  I’m not confused but it seems so forced.  So forced because we need to create tension between passive Vash and aggressive Knives.

With the literal interpretation of his name, he creates claws to kill a bunch of the copy paste men while Conrad and Vash watch.  Vash asks Nai to stop and he replies no one has called him that in a long time.  Is five years really that long of a time though?

Why is Vash standing there?  Murder happened and he’s politely asking Nai to stop.  This allows for the underwhelming reveal that Nai has rebranded himself as Millions Knives.  He is the self appointed leader and only independently associated plant.  Wow, that’s some interesting thought there Knives but how do we know if you are honestly the envoy for all the plants or you are simply stating this without support.

We have heard no input from the plants at this point and lacking that information, I’m going to state that this younger version of Knives decided he’s the plants autocratic leader acting on ‘behalf’ of them.

Vash innocently asks why Knives had to kill people and finally gets more emotional when he reminds Knives that Rem sacrificed herself to save them.

Knives then reveals that Rem messed up his original plans - he’d intended to destroy all of the ships with humans and only save the ships that had plants . . . however, I’m sure he told himself the sacrifices of the plants on the human ships was a necessary sacrifice for the greater good of plantdom.

So Knives solution is to create a paradise for Vash and himself and the rest of the plants stuck in their containers?

Vash sort of argues back with a fact that Rem told them that plants can’t live outside of the plants and without a place to move their energy to without self-destructing.  Knives counters that Vash bought into ‘that’ so he thinks otherwise as a free ranging independent plant.  We don’t know enough about these plants in Stampede to know if that is a lie that Rem told them or the truth.  In the manga it is a fact that the regular plants can’t survive without being connected to something as shown through the awkward interaction with the plants that fell out of Knives’ ark and needed human assistance to ‘plug’ back into the grid to prevent them from dying outright.

Either way, Vash continues to passively stand there as Knives explains his agenda to free their brethren and use his power as a free plant.  Before proceeding to kill a bunch more copy paste guys with his very Wolverine inspired claws.  He wants nothing more for Vash to be his partner in human murder and plant liberation, but Knives really needs to work on his power of persuasion.  Seriously dude, you can’t just tell someone what to do when they are your equal.

He takes a small gun from one of the men he killed and prefaces it in a rather religious tone stating that it is the weapon of a Sinner and it is evil.  Certainly, loaded Christian-ish language but again simple external dressing as far as wel can tell at the moment in this version of Trigun.

We can all see where this is going . . . since Vash won’t kill humans up close and personal like Knives, he’s going to give the gun to him because even someone as weak and docile as Vash can fire a gun.  And to add to it, he has to insult Vash calling him a human-lover.  And with our perfect timing, Luida shows up to tell Vash that she’s here to take him home.

Confirmed, in this version she is not a middle-aged leader of the humans who haven’t fallen and could put all of the men on the surface in their place.  She’s Rem 2.0!  There is no need for strong female characters here.  Knives immediately decides that what Vash needs to do is to kill her.  He looks down at the firearm in horror.

We know that Vash can’t shoot her.  Knives you need to work harder at winning the hearts of others.  He takes the gun for Vash, gaslights him to the core stating he has to do everything for his brother and approaches Luida to kill her.  Vash finally snaps and tackles him.  We finally get some honest Vash emotions and guilt.  He confesses that he always stood behind Rem and she was the one who always protected him, but he lost her in the end.  He decides that Nai isn’t going to take anyone else away from him, but gets tossed off to the side either way.

Knives then calls Luida as witch before declaring his question of how many times you will steal him from me?  Wow - got a weird mother complex much Knives?

Any woman who cares for Vash is the same person and you have to fight her influence? Does this imply there were more ladies besides Rem and Luida?  What is going on with this characterization of Knives? 

Anyhoo, as Knives tries to choke Luida, Vash becomes upset yelling for him to start before he activates his angel arm power - which is a black hole?

And soon as this happened, everyone knew what would happen next.  Knives is gonna have to cut off that left arm. . . .

Knives calls him a fool, Conrad hesitantly asks if it is a gate and it starts to suck in everything around it.  As totally expected, Knives quickly cuts off the arm which gets sucked into the black hole before it eats itself eliminating the danger.

Luida tries to help him as Knives approaches not wanting to have him touched by her.  But shockingly, it is Vash who pulls the gun on Knives. And we get our first serious look from Vash!

 Knives has no choice but to back off and he leaves with Conrad declaring that in a century or so, he’ll create his world for the plants.  Luida screams over his passed out body as the flashback fades to the present where Vash is looking at his prosthetic arm.  Brad comes in and gives him grief about always having to repair the arm.

Of course Vash can’t help but note that Brad has never changed all these years, well other than his obvious aging.  Luida welcomes him back home as he asks about his friends who are all ‘thrilled’ to see him.  Though Wolfwood tries to pretend like they aren’t friends. While chewing on a cigarette.

Vash is relieved and excited as it reveals that of course the ship was hiding in the sandstorm as Zazie’s insects zero in on their location! Confirmed - no puppet master arc with rampant civilian deaths to be replaced by puppets that fall apart in Vash’s arms. 

I’m also disappointed that this avoids the division between those on the uncrashed ship and those on the surface.  The anime and manga tackled it differently but both highlighted the fact that those on the surface were seen as brutish, unrefined, less civilized than those on the ship - by those on the ship.  This entire power dynamic/bias is gone for the moment.

Meryl asks if plants are powering the ship and Luida takes her and Roberto to the large internal garden.  The visual looks very nice and they are excited to see such greenery. But the part that then kills me is the fact that Meryl - doesn’t know what plants are - as in the photosynthetic kind!!!

Why does a straight A student who graduated university not know about plants?  Many other aspects of technology and human knowledge are known by people on the planet but humanity has collectively forgotten about - plants?

Whaaaatttt??? Okay, this is the point where my day job really makes me wonder what on earth Studio Orange’s writers were (or weren’t) thinking.  In the original manga, there are plants on the planet that have been cultivated by very hard working humans.  It is difficult, but the entire Little Arcadia arc was about how a part of a geoplant = part of a plant that helped to terraform, had ‘leaked’ out into the environment and was being carefully cultivated for farming and a green space.  Therefore, this entire aspect of things is no longer a part of the science.  This causes a huge problem in the sci fi aspect of Stampede.  We know that plants help to capture potable water.  They produce electricity.  They create nutrients for agriculture. 

A common item found in all versions of Trigun is alcohol.  You need grains to brew beer, distill spirits and the like.  Stampede is telling us that all of that booze we saw in the beginning is produced by something other than grains?  On a large enough scale that you can bottle it, and consume it?  I could see that the production of it would have been difficult in the original series, but we have pancakes, pizza, donuts, coffee, tea and all of these common food items implying that there is some version of the agricultural industrial complex in the Trigun world but in Stampede - we don’t have agriculture?  This is about as bad as the ship that crashed, didn’t have a plant, had windmills and NO solar panels to use on less windy days!  The science in this sci fi series is killing me.  As soon as you think about it for more than five seconds your brain goes -ack- at this poor writing.  I know the mechanics of many things in Trigun Maximum are hand wavy at best but at least it kept it consistent.

Luida is there to tell Roberto that they are using plants to power the garden but by having regular plants there, they are able to lessen the burden on the plants - not sure how that works since if anyone has ever worked with plants in a growth chamber or greenhouse the amount of energy that goes into it is massive.

You need your swamp coolers, shade cloth, LED or high powered lights, temperature controller, pest control and what about the pollinators for those plants?  Are they all self-compatible? I’m falling down my own rabbit hole of my own making over this aspect of the episode.  Where is the greenhouse staff?  Who is taking care of them?

Okay, I’m taking a step back from my legitimate day job concerns with this and moving onto the scene I predicted from either my episode one or two review.  The famous ‘sempai noticed me!’

Roberto tries to smoke and Luida tells him not to which results in his request of Meryl.

That’s right, he’s no longer calling her newbie, she’s now Meryl, but she still needs to do something for him as the junior colleague.  She first replies before realizing it, excitedly runs up to him and asks if he indeed called her by her name.  Entire plot trope status - achieved.

The entire interaction plays out where he denies it, she presses him and Luida just smiles like “Oh what a genuine interaction.”

While they are in the garden dome, we see Wolfwood sulking in a corner asking Vash what he’s going to do about Knives.  Noting that he likely, can’t just make up with him.  Vash insists he’ll save anyone and Wolfwood parries back that he can’t do that and he will have to make a choice. 

Vash is more intent to not kill - adding he’ll never do it again.  This implies that there was an incident where he did end up killing.  Our non-July-July incident of the past 150 years?  What else happened - since so far we don’t have anything to go on for Vash’s own past mistakes. Interestingly, since Brad is now older and wiser, he’s able to shut Wolfwood down immediately, but not after trying to connect with him stating that he was similar in his own youth.  Wolfwood tries to argue that the old man is wrong, but Brad simply states that Vash is tough if Wolfwood would simply watch him over time.

Luida meekly stumbles into the room to inform them that Worms busted in and kidnapped Meryl and Roberto.  Her emotions are so off in this entire scene, I get that she’s older but she didn’t run to them or use a phone to call them. Instead, she leads them back to the dome and Wolfwood is able to state that Zazie the Beast is the one who took them.

They way up in another generic looking room as Zazie welcomes them to July, which is the crashed plant carrying ship.  Meryl asks if they’d met before and Zazie replies not in the current form.

Roberto asks if Zazie is there on behalf of Knives but instead states they are trying to determine which side to work with.

Roberto then shoots Zazie, who disperses into individual worms before reforming their body on the other side explaining it is a conduit.  Therefore, unlike the original where Zazie used a worm to control an individual human body, which could be shot and killed and then move their consciousness to another human body, it seems that Zazie is just a worm-llusion of sorts.   This entire interaction is Zazie the Beast as our new info dump character.  It this version it is Zazie who tells Roberto and Meryl how humans destroyed the Earth and therefore left it in search of new places to live.  The worms are not happy since they see this as their own planet.  Meryl doubts Zazie but I’m now concerned about her basic education . . . previous versions of Trigun had much more well educated people despite all of the challenges that they had to overcome.

While Zazie info dumps, Vash and Wolfwood are making their way to July via blue ostrich.  Hopefully, the assistance from ship three made it easy for them to reach that point?

Meryl asks what the collected red plants are for, Conrad says they don’t need to know while Zazie asks who the planet is for?  And ends.

The map showed them in the ship located over the sand ocean so they are getting closer to July.  We can assume that they are back on more normal land, and heading to July.

This does sort of guarantee that all road lead to July, which Vash may blow up with - his still remaining right arm?

Basic thoughts on this episode.

1.) Everything continues to be completely generic and predictable.  I know, I can’t be satisfied with this series.  We can follow the plot beats, predict what will happen and then watch it limply be delivered.  This series is failing to pull at my heartstrings.  There is no weight to actions, there is no payoff.  Everything is expose. 2.) Characters and their situations

Vash - was completely passive in the flashback until he unlocked his gate potential in his angel arm which was a black hole that sucked stuff in and had to be cut off by Knives.  No angelic body horror aspects, black hole only.  He pulled the gun on Knives, who simply gave up.  I missed the whole Vash shooting Knives and then running off screaming like a madman in the ‘98 anime or how Knives cut off his arm and then left him to die in the desert tied to a rock bit.  We do learn that he apparently has killed in the past though - which is in line with the manga - but that was the July incident.

Knives - is the self-proclaimed autocratic leader of the plants with a 150 year plan for plant domination of the planet.  All women are evil and can seduce - or - mother Vash which is dangerous and they are all the same and must be stopped to save Vash.  That is so many tropes rolled into one that I don’t even want to parse them all out.  Knives - chill dude.  Unless we get more background for his anger in Stampede, he rings hollow in his motivations.

Luida and Brad - look pretty good for adults 150 years ago.  I’m going to read between the lines that the crew of ship three have been rotating on and off over the years with a skeleton crew and they are one of those shifts.  It is just my opinion on the internet; I preferred their manga characters 1000x more than these old & wise individuals.  This also feeds into the previous observations from others that what Stampede lacks are the general population.  Guess the animation budget wasn’t meant for frontier towns of people going about their day to day lives.

Meryl and Roberto - had their predicted noticed by sempai moment.

Wolfwood - has entered the friend zone by him denying it.  Yep, he’s now friends with Vash despite them still having zero chemistry as characters. Zazie - continues to be crazy and isn’t the same as before which disappointed me more.  The idea that a human body was a disposable host for the worm collective mind was clever and darker than being a collective of worms that appears human to interact with humans and plants.

Conrad - was stripped of his sexy balding man past and instead given hipster hair.  He was already going bald when Rem talked to him about the twins.

3.) It was forced and awkward the entire episode.  This entire series of events felt so stiff and unnatural.  People stood around while very traumatic events happened like it was a normal day.  The copy paste men ran in to be killed by Knives Wolverine X-men style.  Conrad stood around.  Vash stood around.  Luida stood around.  Where was the sense of motion and of overpowering emotions.  Everything fell flat. 4.) Vash’s gate was activated by strong emotions.  And then cut off by Knives.  No putative angel arm in sight.  This also has me wondering if we will even get the Tessla backstory or not.  Episode eight had Luida trying to look up classified information about past independent plants but she couldn’t get it - yet knew that they existed . . . will there even be a flashback where Knives and Vash learn about Tessla or is that also gone? We really need a Tessla backstory for the Vash-Knives conflict and personal motivation. Vash is willing to forgive all humans in their wrongs while Knives uses their wrongs as his driving motivating factor in trying to destroy them and create his utopia for plants under his dictatorship.

5.) There are no Gung-ho Guns.  Period.  The concept is gone.  This is not a western remember?  This is sci fi.  The lack of a general population of civilians also makes for the stakes to seem rather low - how many humans are actually living in the seven cities?  How many are there to protect anyways?  Why is their education system to bad?  What do they eat without agriculture?  There has been no explanation for any of this.  Do the plants produce alcohol for bottling?  Instant meal blocks?  Cotton for clothing that the normal people are wearing?  They can manufacture weapons for sure.

I will be controversial and state what this episode has me thinking about.  Studio Orange has failed at world building.  Too many basic concepts don’t make sense to superficially serve what are poorly written plot points in an episode. Yet when strung together don’t make any logical sense.  You could argue the other versions of Trigun didn’t lean hard into the science aspect of things but everything made sense.  People had animals for transport, the Thomases.  They were able to farm if they worked hard.  Not all towns required a plant to operate, they’d become more off the grid with other means.  It was the fact that any larger place required plants.  There was a functioning economic system of trade and currency to facilitate the production of goods and items.  These things weren’t impossible in the anime and manga, but in Stampede they are impossible.  Life was hard on the planet but the quality of living was indeed higher and those who kept themselves isolated on the uncrashed ship also had attitude to match.

I know it is an anime based on a manga, so we could say I’m being overly critical of these elements.  But compared to the original anime and Trigun Maximum there was enough stuff in between that life wasn’t as bleak as in Stampede.  The day to day logic held up and the world building was consistent with rules that applied to many of the basics.  I can be totally fine with a bonkers set up - as long as you do a good job building that world and keeping your rules consistent throughout. 

Lastly, Stampede has failed all of its female characters to date.  At this point, we still have no idea what Rem taught Vash that he is hellbent on upholding her impossible ideals.  Rem saved them.  That’s it.  Meryl is too young and inexperienced like her past version.  Milly is absent.  Luida has been destroyed from her previous leader position to Rem 2.0.  Elendira hasn’t even done anything yet.  Rosa was the only mother who didn’t get killed by Knives. What’s worse is that we still have a predicted three more episodes to go with this version of Trigun with its paradoxical pacing!  July go boom and then time skip? Three episodes left for that to happen . . . 

I can already feel the siren song to go back to the source material for a better meta or even more so - slide on over to more Kekkai Sensen/Blood Blockade Battlefront which is much more my vibe.  I’m itching to write up my spin on how Trigun influenced B3, a series with a sitcom style format.  I need to write  a meta about Meryl and Milly as Leonardo Watch and Klaus V Reinheirz.

#Trigun #trigun stampede #trigun anime #trigun maximum #trigun stampede meta #trigun stampede episode review #Vash the Stampede #millions knives #meryl stryfe #roberto deniro #luida leitner #brad #luida #zazie the beast #nicholas d. wolfwood #william conrad

[revenantghost]

Man, I think the best and worst part of Knives’s character is just how compelling he is*

I get it. You get it. We all understand exactly how and why he is the way he is. So many people have put this idea into better words than I could. He witnessed an unspeakable horror at an incredibly young age. He knew he was different, that he was other, and a worry set deeply into his bones that humanity would reject him for being born who he is. 

And he was right. It was so much worse than he could have ever realized. He was born to be an object for humanity to use as they see fit. All he wanted was love and peace for himself and his brother. And after seeing that? What they did so mercilessly to Tesla? Who can blame him for not believing in any future with humanity in it. Who can imagine a future without unbelievable strife and prejudice when you’re outnumbered and are seen as an item to dissect and toy with as you see fit

And yet

And yet

In his fear, in his need to control and correct, the cycle continues. The abused becomes the abuser. He assaults his brother multiple times. He takes away Vash’s autonomy and manipulates his body without his consent. Hell he happily experiments with/tests and uses Vash’s body while unconscious. He says he loves Vash while refusing to hear a word coming out of his mouth. Because, if he has a moment of doubt, any hint of weakness, all of that anger slips away and he becomes that boy again--afraid and weak and alone

In his fear, he takes plants. He strips them of their independence and will, denying them their souls. Again, he uses the bodies of his siblings against their will. He displays their corpses to keep him angry instead of putting them to rest. He kills and breaks apart the body of his sister so that he doesn’t have to die, so that he can be reborn. He willfully denies the thoughts, dreams, and pains of his sisters and instead absorbs them, impregnates them, tries to kill them in the “right” way

In his fear, he drove humanity into hurting his kind more. He forced their hand into injuring and killing more plants than they’d ever dreamed of harming. He’s the one that put Vash into a constant position where he’s gaining mountains of scars. (His brother who, on the opposite end of the spectrum, has let the cycle of abuse continue while using himself as a shield instead of breaking free from the pattern.) He uses and discards the humans near him no matter the kindness and devotion they shows him

The same behavior Knives shows everybody and everything else

He’s awful. Absolutely sick and perverted and so stuck in his own mind that all he does is hurt and hurt and hurt

And yet

I get it. I’ve been traumatized to the point where all I want to do is cause pain in return. To feel that justice can exist and will come to pass, no matter the cost. To be so afraid that anger is the only safe emotion you can cling to. It’s what makes him one of the most compelling antagonists I’ve ever seen. Kudos to Nightow for fucking me up about Knives and his pain more by the day, honestly

*Except for ‘98 Knives lmao, that man is fabulously unhinged and overly dramatic about everything and I love him for it

#Trigun #Trigun Maximum #Trigun Stampede #Tristamp #Trimax #Trigun Meta #My Trigun Meta #Long Post #I did NOT intend for this to be so long #Maybe a quarter of this length at MOST #Ohhhh this didn't show up in the tag I'M VERY ANGY