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sweetblossoms · 1 year

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saw your post abt rapunzel manipulating tim in their convo and god hard agree it Is concerning that so many ppl didn't see it. also crazy to me that ppl are mad at tim and defending rapunzel, saying that they would have taken the book too because tim was being rude etc. to me it seemed that both tim the character and ally the player Wanted to believe that rapunzel wasn't part of the plan and was good but just kind of strange, and both are successfully fooled. tim absolutely fumbles the interaction and ally could have played things better, but rapunzel was so clearly in charge of the conversation, leading him into saying worse and worse things and putting his foot in his mouth while tim was genuinely trying to be nice. tim is awkward and blunt and eccentric with Everyone, it's weird that ppl are saying he was being singularly rude to her or patronizing her or that he deserved to get the book taken. that interaction was clumsy as hell and so many words could have been chosen better but tim so clearly was trying so hard to fix his initial fuck up and be friendly w her in the same weird way he talks to everyone. I don't see how ppl came out of that scene on her side even if tim was a little rude and unfortunate w his word choice, and it's concerning to see ppl being like "ha take that stupid old man!!" abt the book being taken + in defense of a character we met an episode and a half ago and who we have been told outright is an expert at deceiving people. the princesses are so so interesting as characters and the morals going on are complex and that's a whole different conversation, but I feel like no matter whether you love rapunzel or not, ppl should be able to recognize that she was manipulating tim in that moment and taking advantage of his trusting disposition. not trying to start discourse in your ask box ofc!!! I've just seen No One Else express discomfort w rapunzel in that scene

anon this ask has been living in my head rent free since you sent it, i've been stewing over how to respond because y e s. for context, check out this post to save discourse on main (this is about to be a long one of fan critic analysis, get your popcorn and settle in if you wanna read, this is the longest post i've ever made), im gonna put my thoughts and response under a read more, sososo many spoilers under the cut read at your own risk

These were all in the replies and tags and I want to reply to all of them bc they're all worthy of being talked about bc i feel like the majority of the fandom is almost scared to critique?? So like let's talk about it since nobody else seems to be taking this approach from what I can tell (thank you to you anon for being on my side as well as the rest of you who are screaming with me) I will begin by saying that my original post is not critiquing ally the player, or any of the other players. i understand that they were in that dome, filming a session of dungeons and dragons, and improv acting and roleplaying for many hours on end with back to back episodes. i kind of get ally and the rest of the table maybe just wanting to "hope for the best", especially ally as they are quite a "hope for the good in others" type of person. it's frustrating from a viewer perspective sure, but i totally dont blame anyone ever for making a "wrong" or "non-optimal" choice while playing a ttrpg, they just have the misfortune of being filmed while doing so. i myself have made tons of bag fumbles while playing dnd, even when i thought everything through ten times over. so anything i have said or will say forward isn't to put any shouldering on to the people playing these silly storybook characters, like, i Get It

What i do want to critique is the fan response, which is the more worrying one!!! like i said in my original post, i was surprised by my d20 watch buddy having a similar response to ally. the total "oh, maybe she's just quirky bc of the self isolation, maybe she's autism rep" approach. my friend, love her to death, is also one of those "sees the best in others and hope everyone is always aiming to be their best selves" type of person, very similar to ally. i came online after that episode expecting everybody on the fanbase level to be screaming with me in a "i told you so!!" way

instead. i came online and saw people just on the attack and the defense in absolutely skewed ways!! out of NOWHERE, all these fans have come on to post about how "tim was patronizing her, and thats why she stole the book" "wow i would have hated being called girly and honey as well" "wow these conversations really didnt go their way why was tim so mean to her :(" or the opposite of "rapunzel is the evilest person to ever exist bc xyz these princesses are evil villains" or "we need to protect these princesses bc they just didnt know any better uwu"

i feel like, on a fan level, me and you anon (+all these lovely folks in the notes of that post) were the only ones screaming "hold on, that is literally not the same media i just watched"

i've seen before a lot of people be like "wow, media literacy is at an all time low" and i never really understood that until i saw the reactions after that episode. as a fan or viewer watching any media, we have the privilege of seeing more about the media than the people who are creating it. that's the best joy of being a viewer, we get to sit back and spot those foreshadowing moments and bite our nails in suspense when the music goes creepy and see the artwork and overall, we have the privilege of catching vibes that maybe those acting in it do not. this leads to those bonding moments of "i told you so" "wow im biting my nails and pacing" "oh they're gonna REGRET that". and, an "oh my god no no no do not hug her she wants to take your book god now she's feeling you up with her hair she's looking for the book ROLL INITIATIVE!!!!". it leads to glorious moments of ~dramatic irony~, a literary term for literally when something is happening in a story and the readers can catch it, but the protagonist probably didnt bc they're not seeing the full picture. While watching, from my perspective, yeah it was frustrating to watch the player bag fumble turn after turn, but it's a game of dnd, they film so many back to back, they don't get the same experience as us. however.

brennan did a great job at dropping the foreshadowing, to the point of not even so much subtly foreshadowing, he DIRECTLY TOLD THEM rapunzel was a liar and uses her words as knives. like someone pointed out, the players even PAID for that information, with the golden bridle. by the time they met these princesses, they probably knew the most about rapunzel's true nature over all the other princesses, that she uses her charisma to her advantage. the players made their choice to do the diplomatic route, to split up and chat. ally did the right thing for picking rapunzel with tim's 19 charisma stat, it would have been charisma against charisma, and an even playing field for someone they have been explicitly told is a master of words and deceit.

as fans, we've seen these episodes edited and put back to back. clues are lined up in a row. was it frustrating to see ally playing tim in a naïve way? sure. but tim's been pretty naïve this whole time, so you could stack it up to a character choice. what's more frustrating is seeing the responses of viewers being blindsided by the book thieving and chalking it all up to "evil vs good" and rapunzel's choice shaking them to their cores.

by this point in the story, by the time you get to that episode, rapunzel already gave enough bad vibes with the talk of her charismatic deceits and with her hair everywhere spying on them. maybe that last one wasn't explicitly stated, but it was heavily implied to the point of gerard writing the plans on a note instead of wanting them said out loud by elody, a scene that happened way before tim's. by the time we see rapunzel get to the kitchen, she is INSTANTLY catty. someone described her on the post as "eldritch regina george" and. yes. exactly. eldritch regina george. from our privileged spot as a viewer, rapunzel comes in, puts on the fake smile, puts on her fake tone, and says "what are you doing in here? :)". she was already ready to fight timothy. that first sentence was hostile. she was OFFENDED and checking on tim to make sure mother goose wasn't counter-spying. i honestly didnt think that would have to have been explicitly stated, she was in attack mode and plastered the fake smile for a show so that she had the upperhand in the conversation that was about to happen. this is something that fans should have at least caught on to right off the bat, we've been explicitly told that she is fake more than she is honest for the sake of being a "performative person"

the conversation happens, and she starts becoming more verbally hostile. "i dont know, what SHOULD we do hehe. it's ruined now :)" "no use in crying over spilt milk *pours milk with hair on the floor with a smile* oh no :)" "...or if it was on purpose :/ :)" "why dont you go get a mop :)" "i chose to be charming :)"

every sentence she replied with was carefully chosen. as viewers, we can watch brennan's face in full clarity of intimidation. we can have the knowledge that has been provided to not trust rapunzel as she is a charismatic spy who has words for knives. in my opinion, even without those clues before now, her show that she put on in the kitchen should have been enough as is to show that she is acting maliciously and with hostility. the smile is there as to not incite physical violence on tim's part bc then it would make TIM look like the bad guy if he attacked first. by the time she goes in for the hug. im sorry. but ally the player should have caught that, the whole table should have caught that, and-more importantly-the fans should have caught that. we all watched the same thing. we have all been told the same information. to purposefully ignore all of the red flags just to pull a "well tim was kind of mean and patronizing, and rapunzel doesnt have social skills from being locked in a tower, i forgive her, wow i didnt see that coming" is absolutely *batshit*

the lack of people catching on is what concerns me. i've met TONS of people growing up (sorry here, im all for women's wrongs, but mainly cis-girls tbh) who act like rapunzel does. from middle school and high school bullies/mean girls. mean girls at college. from parents or teachers or bosses. from normal adults in my life. they always have the same tone and inflections in the same places. the same faces with the wrinkled nose. the same sickly sweet smile. brennan played rapunzel, a known manipulator, perfectly. to a T. he embodied it fully. people JUST LIKE RAPUNZEL walk amongst us every day. i can guarantee you that even these fans that didnt catch it have met people like rapunzel in their own lives.

rapunzel is a character yes, but she is a character that mimics a masterclass manipulator. she IS the mean girl, the regina george. it leaked out of her every word, tone, and inflection. every single thing told about her and shown was, in no world, some "uwu the sweet bean was locked in a tower and doesnt have social skills". that was her origin, her start point. just like sleeping beauty locked in a castle, snow locked in her coffin. rapunzel directly says "i chose to be charming. :)." she had her origin of no social skills, her sad origin of being locked in isolation in her tower, and said "this is my greatest flaw, so i am going to dedicate my life to improving this skill bc it's what stopping me from achieving my goals." she trained her social skills to be good. too good. so good that she hopes nobody will catch her sweet charming self in the act of malicious intentions. this. was. directly. stated.

it worries me on a psychological level of the fans. yes it shows a lack of media literacy, something is frustrating on a fan-to-fan level. it shows a lack of ability of critical thinking. it shows a lack of ability to participate in dramatic irony, a necessary literary device to instill tension into a horror campaign. but also, and to what is probably my main point in this novel long hot take: it has real world implications. mean girls like rapunzel are a guarantee in life. i'm sorry, but it's true. maybe the person acts differently, maybe they aren't as obvious or more obvious. but these people walk amongst us. they use the same tone and same cadence to their words. these manipulators see what they want, and devise a way to convince the person into giving them what they want. rapunzel did not use the Charm Person spell, or the Friendship spell. She used. her words. like a normal human being. and by doing so, we as the fans were able to catch on and should have had a moment of "RUN GOOSE, RUN AWAY, NO DONT LET HER HUG YOU". but instead, a lot of people turn a blind eye to these manipulators in their lives. they pull a "aw but they have a tragic backstory, they're just confused and need love :/" "they cant be THAT bad..." they see a sweet little smile on the face and an upticked tone of voice, and go "well, they're playing nice, so now i have to play nice bc otherwise im the bad guy here" which!!! you do not!!

this is exactly how manipulators worm their ways in, this is what ALLOWS manipulation to work in its various forms. it's how people get trapped in abusive relationships. it's how people get scammed. on a personal end, i lived a narcissistic manipulator for a long time growing up, and it was exhausting. once you could put down the rose colored glasses and see right through the act, you notice how every inch of their mannerisms are performative. everything they say and do comes with the caveat of them wanting something from you and are trying to butter you up in the meantime. if you catch and call onto it, they IMMEDIATELY turn on you, they sneer and retreat to their next target who it will fool. the cycle continues, the next target is selected.

on a fan level, if we as fans cannot play into dramatic irony as a practice, if we cannot exit our seats of mind to catch on to those "eldritch regina george" quirks at the bud in a piece of fictional media where the puzzle has been handed on a silver platter, then there is a l o t more work to be done on 1) general media literacy 2) ANY fandom perception on media and 3) general awareness of how to spot and deal with manipulators in real life. if you can't catch on to it in a silly fictional ttrpg media, how do you expect to catch on to it in real life? how many of these same fans are trapped in manipulative relationships around them? how many more will they fall for bc of the "oh no but they have tragic backstory so it's forgiven uwu"? as fans, you cant sit there in the same breath saying that tim was condescending to rapunzel and then follow it up with not noticing what was ACTUALLY happening in real time. if you wanna say that rapunzel was ALLOWED to be a manipulator because of her origin, what other manipulators are you defending in your real life? how many of these manipulators continue their tricks BECAUSE they know naïve people exist and will fall for it? how many have been enabled in the same cycle bc it worked on one so it'll work on the next?

i wish i had a fun way to conclude this absolutely massive chunk of fandom critique gibberish, but i just dont. i wish i could find a more comprehensive way to scream about this, so take this post as me SCREAMING about this, anon my dm's are open if we wanna rant some more

#i havent entered fandom discourse in awhile in ANY fandom but this one has been bothering me so fucking much #tldr anon my messages are open if you wanna scream with me some more #anon #ask #neevrafter spoilers #neverafter #d20 #dimension 20 #d20 spoilers

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