#should i tag this as dean crit | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

serendipity0930 · 2 months

Text

besides the whole "sam is emotionally abusive" argument I keep seeing fucking everywhere (I need it gone!!), it's very obvious that a lot of people don't really understand the effect that the demon blood had on sam as a person. idk in my mind, it's always kind of compared to deans moc arc. like yes, sam was willingly drinking it, as opposed to dean not having control over the mark's influence (besides taking it on in the first place after leaving sam alone in the wake of his non-consensual & third possession but dw about that rn). in concept, the demon blood had the same effect on sam that the mark did on dean, in the way that it fucked with him innately (dean telling sam he should die, when dean's always gone to extreme lengths to save him, while sam calls dean weak, when just the next season he sacrifices himself because he's the "least of any of them"). it's not really present in the first half of the season (up to 04x14ish), when he's not consistently taking the demon blood, but it's especially obvious in the second part of the season. after reestablishing his relationship with ruby (after she guilt trips him and tells him it's his fault for people dying but we'll move on for now), he very suddenly goes from being very willing to talk to dean about hell and console him, to not really being there for dean. and while I don't love/agree with him calling dean weak for being traumatized, I think it really shows how it was making sam, an undeniably compassionate person, very closed off and cold, which is devastating in its own right, and part of the reason why the demon blood arc is so amazing.

idk I just see a lot of people constantly hating on sam for shit that he did while being high on the blood/while the blood was fucking with him, and I think a lot of those things are very un-sam things that he spends the entirety of the next season apologizing and trying to make up for. like sam in his right mind is a person who would not necessarily do the things he says/does in that season and I think that's forgotten a lot. for me, the bottom line is, if you hate sam for things he did in s4 and then turn around and immediately defend dean for things he did in s10, there's something going on there and it's not just blatant hypocrisy from the narrative.

26 notes · View notes

humantorch · 1 year

Text

watching season 14 and i get what jack is saying about sacrificing dean if they can’t get michael out of him. i think he’s completely valid. plus dean would say the same thing if the roles were reversed. they’d be in agreement that sacrificing someone to stop michael would be better than letting him live to save one person

#txt #jack #dean #i should maybe tag as #dean crit

3 notes · View notes

scoobydoodean · 5 months

Note

every so often I see a deancrit post that makes me believe dean girls should be allowed to maim and bite and kill fr....idk how you find the strength to combat the nonsense because I saw a post so insane this morning that I had to get up and take a walk outside to calm down. all that to say: thank you for defending our boy because I wish I could do it but I get so upset I can't even string sentences together let alone write such eloquent rebuttals the way you do 🩷

❤️ Oh believe me I get it. I used to talk to people in the SPN subreddit jbdzfjshbjfhb. Deancrits have made posts that make me see so red I'm like Doom Guy on the last dredges of his health (if they aren't making me laugh my ass off) but they are very rarely in my face these days. My dash is a blessedly dean-positive space full of sexy people making sexy posts. I definitely recommend building yourself a nice curated dash and blocking or filtering whoever you need! You do NOT have to be in the trenches.

A lot of the cataloguing content of the blog is based on pervasive fanon opinions I have simply been here long enough to know about. Deancrits almost always just reinvent the same tired arguments, so that works in my favor. Thankfully, I don't have to expose myself to opinions I don't like in order to build up the collections I am building... though I certainly do fixate on certain collections when crits get nasty in my notifs or the notifs of the people I follow.

One thing I recommend, when you do start to feel mad, is to quickly identify what about a post stands out as making you the most angry. I think you'll often find that at the center of it, almost always, is "This person made an argument that ignores all context and is in such bad faith that it actively infuriates me", or "That literally never happened. They just made that up and everyone is just believing them!" But the thing is... as soon as you realize they said something really really stupid... it can quickly become extremely funny—a big huge joke. Laughter is excellent medicine. As soon as you see the humor in something, it becomes incredibly un-intimidating and your mind is usually cleared of a lot of the clutter your rage inspired, so you can simply focus on dispensing with what was said that was so very silly.

I'll be honest though. I greatly benefit from the fact that I am so annoying on my own page talking to myself and my mutuals and followers that a lot of deancrits I've never spoken to or heard of in my life have blocked me, and they are, overwhelmingly so full of shit that when the remaining dredges decide to stumble their way onto my blog and cry about my posts I just end up laughing my ass off at the mental gymnastics they've contorted themselves into to get the ideas they spew at me.

I mean sorry to be a huge sanctimonious dick about crits, but I'm not the one whose perpetually gone on their blogs and posts and started commenting obnoxious drivel like a pompous ass. I don't exactly have great opinions on a group of people I've mainly been exposed to through condescending tags and replies and comments and hate mail, through ridiculous and outright offensive claims about my irl character based on what fictional characters I like, through harassment campaigns launched against various people, and through their attempts to bully people off the internet.

#mail #dont feed the stans after midnight

19 notes · View notes

ghostmary · 3 years

Text

dean thinking he can apply his own experiences to cas. believing that a little bit of destruction WORKS, in the long term, that he can sell parts of himself down to his soul and tear his body apart. if he’s still alive it doesn’t matter. and he doesn’t realize that he’s hurting cas all the same. ripping himself apart has always been a means to an end.

#im talking about the 15x18 fic im writing for rem #not canon #in canon this is more applicable to dean and sam #should i tag this as dean crit

3 notes · View notes

and-stir-the-stars · 3 years

Text

Supernatural’s The End where the reason Balthazar wasn’t there is because Dean killed him with a weapon to see if it would be effective against angels, and therefore Lucifer. Cas is slowly biding his time, building up his ‘useless stoner’ front so Dean won’t suspect that he’s planning to trade Dean to bring Bal back.

It’s even more painful bc there’s no way Bal would ever come if Dean called him, so Dean would have had to rely on Cas to convince Balth to meet with him. Meaning Cas has to live thinking he led Bal to his death like a lamb to the slaughter </3 And Dean has to repress and internally deny what a horrible act he’s just committed in order to keep functioning, so he just acts like nothing happened between him and Cas and offers poor Cas no sympathy or apology whatsoever

#bonus if cas brings bal back by making a deal with samifer #and if that leads to further complications/betrayals #calthazar #spn #endverse #castiel #tw death #dean winchester #should i tag this as dean crit?#probably?#dean critical

45 notes · View notes

rushmissile · 3 years

Text

Incredible pet peeve of mine is when people are like “this is my new and improved version of this storyline, unlike the shitty garbage canon” and the only changes they made is that the characters always do the morally correct thing and always make the most logical possible decisions even under extreme pressure

#more specifically #I really hate the ones where the only changes they make are like #‘everyone is nice to my fav now because they deserve everything <3’ and genuinely seem to think it’s better somehow #I saw this a lot with Steven u at the height of the crit thing but I see it ocassionally around here as well #I saw someone say smth like ‘in the secret good spn where dean supports Sam going to college-‘#and my brain just instantly shut down the rest of the sentence #because like for all that the writers exaggerate deans flaws and refuse to let him move past them #I think the fact that he DID NOT handle sams decision to leave very well and went on to resent him for it is incredibly important #like if he was just a 100% good brother who was always capable of putting Sam over his idealization of John #he would lose a lot of dimension to me I feel #like personally I wouldn’t change any of that and more... how the narrative treats deans actions #I don’t think people would feel the need to remove that aspect of their relationship at all if it was ever properly addressed !#but it’s like whatever u know. everyone can have their own imaginary supernaturals #like I’m not trying to barge in and be like ‘your imagination is SHIT!!!! change it to suit my needs!!’#I just think it should be touted as something that improves upon the original. at least seriously anyway #like u could definitely just be like ‘in my version everything’s just better for my favorite Man’ n that’s fine no need for justification.#I do it on occasion even #very silly thing to write a whole think piece in the tags about but Hey

17 notes · View notes

spiritclusters · 3 years

Text

Fic Review-1

This is going to be an ongoing series where I read, review, and generally fan about SPN fics that I've read. Because it's one of the deepest desires of my soul to discuss fics in detail with people, and fan and generally just be a nerd, like you would with a original story Unfortunally, I really, really want to do this with the authors, but I'm shy and reclusive, and don't feel comfortable doing so. So instead, I'm going to make a giant tumblr post to describe how much I love their work.

So, no crit in these reviews, just love

*If you have a recommendation for a SPN fic (gen, preferably), your own or someone else's that you want me to read and "review", please leave and ask or DM me. (<20k for now).

Today's victim: Karma's Gonna Come Collect Your Debt

Set: S13

Parings: gen

Length: 35k

Main character: Written to be Sam, but I would also argue Dean.

Summary:

Sam is dead. Dean isn’t processing.

And then Sam is not dead, Lucifer is there, and they’re suddenly on a deadline- thirty one hours before their single way home literally ceases to exist. Jack needs to be kept away from Lucifer, Sam needs to be kept away from Lucifer, they need to get thirty three people through a rift miles away, and that’s not even mentioning the fucking war currently being waged all over this- literally -godforsaken planet.

But Sam is alive, (alive, alive, Dean’s brother is alive), albeit having one continuous panic attack. This is fine.

(It is so, so not.)

(EVERYTHING BELOW THIS CONTAINS SPOILERS!)

Reasons You Should Read This:

You know those writers that actually manage to take trauma into account, while pushing forward the story and not allowing this to get buried? this is one of those.

Sam and Lucifer content is just. mm. It's horrible, and it's treated like it's horrible.

Dean's anxiety is actually shown

Dean is traumatized by what happened to Sam by the vampires. his brother's throat gets ripped open, and Dean isn't like "oh, we're okay" after Sam walks up alive again, he spends the entire fic stressed about it

The pacing is lovely, no detail is spared

Lucifer shows up at the camp and no one goes "he's in chains, ergo, he's no longer a problem." He is the Devil, and he is treated as the untrustworthy, snake-like creature he is.

Cas isn't powerless, and he's not stupid.

Mary isn't amazing, but she actually tries to have some form of a bond. Sort of.

LUCIFER TORTURING SAM FOR 180+ YEARS IS NOT IGNORED!

Gabriel isn't useless or just there to please fans, he actually does something

The Cage is talked about.

Jack learns about the Cage

Upon learning about the Cage, Jack decides he doesn't want to talk to Lucifer anymore.

Dean is not ignorant to what Lucifer's presence is doing to Sam, or what it has done to Sam in the past. The fic implies that while Sam probably doesn't talk about it to Dean (Because PTSD and it makes sense), Sam isn't unaffected by what happened to him.

Dean is overly paranoid about anywhere he goes, trying to make sure that it's safe. (Such a small detail, but it always, always pleases me to read it)

Dean and Sam actually have a bond, and it's so very present and so very, very enjoyable.

Sam kills Lucifer

No Michael possession!

Protective!Dean

Sam speaks Enochian, which always gets a win for me.

++My Analysis of the fic:

Writing style and why it works:

The writing is very authentic to how I think Dean's brain works. It's anxiety riddled, fast with worry, and clearly shows the depth of how much hunting has affected him. Dean's brain isn't...smooth is the only word I can think of for this, it's not point A to B like other characters are and that makes sense. The writing focuses deeply on reactions, the way words are spoken, and physical sensations. Especially for Dean, there's little to 0 regard on how he's feeling. Which is something I totally see Dean doing.

But the reason that this frantic, almost skittering writing works is because this is a situation that you'd be thinking like that. Lines cut out because Dean, trauma riddled, doesn't want to think about something. There's jumping and processing and "well, crap" moments. My favorite thing about this author's writing style? they are very much into show not tell, which allows the readers to draw their own conclusions, but also makes it a much more enjoyable experience.

The focus on time, especially given these circumstances, was a beautiful detail to add. It kept a sense of pressure on the writing, because everyone knows that we are on a time limit.

There's also a deep sense of secrecy between Sam, Dean and Cas and the others in the story. They have and share information between the three of them that no one else has, and that makes sense because they have been working together for years.

But because, Sam and Dean especially, they are aware of each other, the characters don't feel like strangers. They know each other, and have been living with each other for a long, long time, and you can clearly see that with how attuned they are to each other. It was beautiful.

Character portrayal:

One of my favorite things about how the characters are portrayed here is that Sam is visibly uncomfortable in Lucifer's presence. Sam was disgusted by Lucifer, and when we're told that because Sam still has residual grace left in him and he can kill Lucifer, Sam is horrified. Sam is allowed to be as trauma riddled as someone who went through that would be. It's beautiful.

I also really appreciate how Dean is allowed to be freaked out about Sam literally getting his throat ripped out. Dean is allowed to not be this perfect fearless older brother. Dean is human here. He's a person with struggles who is concerned about Sam and others, but Dean still feels distinct.

I will also forever appreciate how the characters interact here. Everything is so subtle. If they're soft, it's not blatant, if they hate each other, then it's angry staring, but nothing feels explicit, and I love that.

Small details that make me go "mm.":

Dean always checking the "safety" of a room when they enter.

Mary not knowing about the Cage or John telling Dean to kill Sam

Sam's body language when he's around Lucifer

Upon 1 (one) glance at lucifer, Sam is completely aware that the chains have no effect on Lucifer and tells Dean

(pale face, frantic eyes, mouth open in an agonized scream)

Dean not knowing Maggie's name

Favorite scene and why:

This was hard, but man, the scene where Sam and Dean lay down to get some rest after Sam comes back to camp with Lucifer, and they just...don't sleep. There's something about this scene that just is so...deeply and utterly horrifying. Because Sam and Dean are supposed to be safe, right?

Sam's alive, Dean's alive, they're close to each other, neither of them are injured. They're fine.

And yet.

Yet...they're not. And you can feel that. Dean is tense and not-sleeping, and Sam is tense and not-sleeping. And there's something just so deeply haunting about that scene and I just. My love. <3

Favorite quotes:

“No,” Jack shook his head. “Why do they hate you?”

“It’s in me Dean, oh, god-” (“I’ve got demon blood in me Dean, this disease pumping through my veins-”) Dean shuts his eyes against the unwanted memory that had risen unbidden to the forefront of his mind. He firmly shoves it away.

"And now Sam was somewhere. Probably having a panic attack. Dean needed to find him."

"Sam, I know you will, I know you can, this isn’t me doubting you I swear. But, man, you don’t have to. You shouldn’t have to"

He hadn’t, not since the Cage. Maybe he couldn’t.

Because Dean will make time, damnit, because Sam shouldn’t have to f--ing schedule his panic attacks-

Dean can’t see it, but he knows his brother well enough to read the tightness in his shoulders and shifts in his elbows under the jacket that tell him Sam’s pressing into his palm scar again.

Because Sam never got angry anymore... not since the Cage.

“Heyyyyy Cassie! You’re back! Thank Dad.” Dean turned to see Gabriel trotting up to them, a scowling Lucifer in tow. “Take im’, please, he’s all yours.” He said, motioning to the Devil behind him."

Over all, I think that the story is beautiful. please be sure to leave a kudos and a comment if you read, because this author is dear to my heart and deserves them.

link once more

Author tag or link: @widowronin, Огромное спасибо! :D

#fic rec #spn fic rec #hbo spn #sam and dean #sam and lucifer #sam and trauma #cage trauma #fic reviews

30 notes · View notes

ltleflrt · 3 years

Note

I would love some more mean advice, I'm taking notes because this is a goldmine

lol honestly, the advice about not starting a fic with Life Story Infodump or Daily Grind Infodump is the most important thing I can think of. Since nearly all of the times I back out of a fic, it’s because of one of those two things. Just about everything else I can think of is pretty minor and won’t make me quit reading. But here’s a few things I think might be helpful just for giving a story some extra shine.

1. Minute detail of a process is rarely necessary. Gloss over how something works unless the details have something to do with plot. For instance, if Dean is making tacos for dinner, just say Dean gets to work preparing tacos. Don’t talk about warming up the shells, or browning the meat, or slicing the veggies. Unless it’s plot related. If Dean makes checklists and crosses things off to soothe anxiety, then those details are important, but make it clear that he’s self-soothing. Or if Cas is allergic to onions, bring up that Dean sauteed them and added them to the meat, because Dean LOVES onions, and it didn’t occur to him to check if Cas has allergies before he started cooking, and they can’t be picked out, and oops the date ends with Dean rushing Cas to the ER, etc. Otherwise, just say Dean had an hour left till Cas showed up for dinner, so he hurried to prepare all the taco fixings, and it took too little time so now he had to figure out how to occupy himself till the doorbell rang.

(btw, I would LOVE more first date ending up in the ER stories, everyone who reads this is free to adopt that idea lol)

2. Please don’t write an entire story in 1-2 sentence paragraphs. This is rare, but it’s an almost instant nope out for me. There’s this one story that I reeeeeally want to read, because it’s right up my alley, and other than the short paragraph issue, it’s well written so I keep trying but getting stuck. I’m gonna have to copy it into a doc and edit the paragraphs and squish some stuff together to make it legible to my brain. Like there’s a long stretch in the first chapter where every sentence is its own paragraph, and just.... why. When you’re putting a paragraph break, there’s a mental pause happening in the reader’s mind. And too many short paragraphs in a row makes it more like a really long poem rather than a typical story you’d read in a book. A lot of advice says to not attack your readers with a wall of text (WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU FOR OVER 9000!!!) and to break things up, but the opposite is also true. Too many super short paragraphs is like Damage Over Time (THROW MORE DOTS, MORE DOTS!) and either one of those will defeat your reader’s interest. Short paragraphs are a very useful tool, I use them myself for emphasis, but it can’t be your whole story. Try to limit it to no more than 3 in a row. If you’re going past that, take a minute to read those sentences and see if they’re related to each other. Squish them into a single paragraph if they are. Varying your paragraph length IS an art form. Like writing music. Paragraphs build a cadence, and staccato cannot sustain a whole song. This can be mitigated by creating long compound sentences though, so keep in mind that the length of the sentence, which should vary, can make a paragraph feel longer, even if it is only 1 or 2 sentences.

(haha she gives advice on how to break up paragraphs while critting you with a wall of text! good job, Carebear.)

3. The art of breaking up dialogue is just as delicate as the art of paragraph construction. Too much back and forth without breaking it up with an action or an internal thought can make it confusing who is talking. The rule of 3 comes in handy here too. After 3 back and forths, put in something non-dialogue. So it would go Character A says thing, Character B says Thing, Character A says thing, add some action/internal thoughts. And just a he/she/they said tag isn’t enough. IT IS BETTER THAN NOTHING, and depending on the cadence of the conversation it’s the right tool. But adding some physical movement or a stray thought would be better. That being said, don’t put too much action/thought between sections of dialogue. If you put too much info in there, it can make your reader forget that there’s even a conversation going on, and they’ll get to the next piece of dialogue and be like wtf is this pertaining to again? and they’ll have to scroll back to the last line of dialogue to remember what was last said. Remember, thoughts fly at the speed of light, so if you’re pausing the dialogue for some internal character thought, it’s happening in a matter of seconds, but your reader needs minutes to read and parse what’s going on. Again, rule of 3, try not to do more than 3 paragraphs between dialogues. And if you’re still not sure, or you feel like you need more so you keep going, read out loud from the last dialogue through the next dialogue and it’ll give you an idea of just how much time is physically passing for your readers, and you’ll start to feel the true size of things.

(WRITE ALL THAT STUFF DOWN THO. If you need to get it out, then by all means, get it out. It’s your first draft, and it’s important for YOU, even if a lot of it isn’t important for the reader. Trim it in the edit. FOR THE LOVE OF THE GODS, TRIM IT IN THE EDIT.)

(And the rule of 3 is a guideline, not a rule. It’s just a good measuring tool that you can use until you’re comfortable enough to eyeball things on your own.)

Anyway, those are the only things that come to mind while I’m calm and not in a frothing rage over writing errors that are not mine to correct. I feel like a huge asshole for vague-bitching about other people’s writing, and I profusely apologize for anyone’s hurt feelings if they read this advice and realize this might apply to something they’ve done. PLEASE KEEP WRITING, DON’T LET MY WHINGING DISCOURAGE YOU, I LOVE YOU.

#ltleramblings #writing advice #writer's angst #darmysasagiri

34 notes · View notes

toxicsamruby · 3 years

Note

i don't know about everyone but some of us don't trust people who tag things "dean critical" or put it in their bio because a lot of them are like. a step removed from w*nc*st shippers. like they don't post or reblog stuff Specifically like that but they reblog ambiguous stuff from w*nc*st blogs and it's obviously not everyone & criticizing characters and stories is obviously a good thing but the dean crit thing is enough of a pattern that a lot of us are wary by default now and it sucks tbh

(i don't know if you were actually looking for an answer to the "why do people hate the concept of being 'dean critical' etc but that didn't occur to me until after i sent the first ask, sorry. like i think you're right people should definitely be critical of characters there's just a lot of inc*st freaks in this fandom who act like its their job to make it hard to have actual conversations about it.)

i mean my thing was less about “why dont more people call themselves dean critical” and more about “dean critical is a stupid concept bc its just bad reading comprehension to NOT be critical of characters u like” also it is literally not that hard to find blogs who call themselves dean critical who explicitly hate wincest and i REALLY wish people would stop trying to find a moral justification for not being critical of their favorite character

#incest tw #asks

7 notes · View notes

theprincessandthepie · 3 years

Text

anyway while deancrit doesn’t appeal to me personally bc it just makes me mad at the writers more than anything i don’t really. care that people write dean critical stuff? like 99% of the time it affects me not at all (with the exception of people like. directly replying to my videos with dean crit which like. it’s just not the place or time buddy). also I don’t rly understand the making fun of tagging posts as dean critical? they are literally doing that so you don’t have to see dean crit if that’s not your bag.

what DOES annoy me is when people write dean crit as if like. fans who like him don’t know or care? like. I know that he does misogynistic things dude. I also think that parts of his and Sam’s dynamic are fucked up. you don’t have to tell me. I know.

every time I encounter that mentality I usually just block the person bc like. I have better things to do with my time. but it still makes me angry like. you went into the conversation genuinely believing that I am so incapable of though and analysis that I think dean as presented in canon never does anything fucked up. why the hell should I engage with you? why the hell should I listen to you? you obviously don’t respect me.

good faith conversations require faith both that your conversation partner is engaging in the discussion for its own sake and also that like. they have a human brain that is capable of basic reasoning lol

on top of that it’s just. old news. like we had this discussion in 2014 my guy I’m really not interested in having it again.

all of this is why my response to stuff like “please at least acknowledge that he says misogynistic things” is “what are you talking about he’s a feminist icon 🤨”

#like dean crit genuinely does nothing for me bc someone points out something fucked up and I am like. yeah I know.#and the bad thing has either been filed as ‘fucked up writing decision’ or ‘awful yet engaging end result of character flaws’ for two yrs #if it’s something I personally feel is out of character I tend to blame the writers #see ‘two of the cheerleaders are legal’#otherwise I’m just like. yeah. he’s a weird fucked up dude who has some major flaws. thats literally why I like him.#he wouldn’t be dean if he wasn’t an extremely flawed person lol #for examples of this see the whole gadreel thing #like I do think dean in that moment absolutely would have violteted Sam’s autonomy to save his life.#my problem is more with the fallout than anything else.#like it’s a very good setup! deans weird parental bond with Sam and attachment issues and also general fucked up ness leaf to him violating #*lead #Sam’s trust and autonomy. this is the culmination of years of deans increasing possessiveness over one of the last people left who he loves #in a good world this arc would allow us to explore the ramifications of holding too tight to someone and also Sam’s own feelings on his #autonomy. it would also allow us the explore and condemn the years of smaller actions that lead to that choice.#it’s really cool!#but what we got was not that lol #mine

4 notes · View notes

incarnateirony · 4 years

Note

Sorry abt all of the hate you’ve been getting recently. Here’s a (hopefully) interesting opinion to give you a break. I understand you believe DeanCas to be canon based on text. However, in a tv show, the script doesn’t equate to canon. In the end it’s the actors/directors interpretation onscreen. It’s fun to analyze DeanCas textually, but if there’s no onscreen payoff to the decade (?) long buildup. It’s queerbait. And knowing the history of LGBT+ cinema, it would be a very cruel thing.

Okay so this is a really uh, kinda cute attempt, but still about 3 years behind on things I’ve already addressed. In fact, your own take in a lot -- and I mean a lot -- of ways is far more self defeating than you think right here.

First of all, the script is the *base* of canon. I have always said, the script isn’t the complete canon and yes, it’s a collaborative work. This is not the winning argument you think it is. However, it is the base text. The base texts depicts the canon on page before the collaborative part presses it to on screen. (In fact to show how Not New Yet Backwards this take is, I've included a post at the end about social codes where I openly address how hysterical the fandom's limited idea of text is, and that whether inside or outside of Spoken Dialogue Only eg script the argument falls on its face and surrenders itself to reveal internalized queerphobia.)

For the record, I assume you went with the “script is just script” angle because I recently nailed down all the authoritative statements and receipts, but we’ll move on to your other points.

Now while not every-single-director has ever spoken up, some have. In fact, director Phil Sgriccia was one of the first people--in so far as being on the S8 DVD commentary--talking about Dean’s biromantic potential. Dick Speight also has been openly supportive and his framework is consistent. Many others don’t engage, like wright, but wright very obviously consciously framed things as per his previous work with Jensen on Dark Angel. We could go on. We could go on about set design, we could go on about all kinds of things.

We could go on about the way this fandom has a terrible warped way of reviewing AV media, wherein they used to chase curtains or assume certain lighting meant things it didn’t, *against* what crew said in some points, and then yell about interpretation.

In fact your very evocation of the collaborative elements make this even more absurdist even if you really did pose this in innocence: after all, when this year a soap opera reporter who doesn’t even watch the show caught the 15.03 breakup, she gave swift review of the full cinematography being the classic framework of the Dark Points in the Romance. Because you’re right. It’s collaborative text. And especially as of season 15, that collaborative text--and in AV, visuals DO count as text--is painting them in romantic methods, in ways previously not done no matter what someone’s 8 year old meta sheet told them violet light meant. In fact, if you follow the actual crew’s statements of that violet light’s meaning, and look at 15.13, and then read through what I’ve been talking about on endgame speculation and where it fell, it falls into the fated twined paths of Dean and Cas at the end of the road together. No, the violet isn’t inherently romantic. Yes, it’s part of a large story. And yes, that story is leading them down a road together which I’ll bring up at the end of this post. Letting a romance speak for itself in the midst of mytharc is a whole other thing, and actually like, how it’s supposed to go? When it’s... literally an integral part of the structure?

All of this, all of this, is fundamentally true and I have actually made dozens if not hundreds of post to show how fandom has actually been -- in their attempt to be woke, to claim queerbait or not canon, or to whatever else -- persistently deleted creative commentary, turned it into accusations, or just defied basic AV crit standards both for and against itself.

Are we really going to start talking about actor interpretations in the year even Jensen Ackles called it a domestic dispute, and turned a Samstiel question into Dean’s taste in Cas? Or Misha and Jared’s long histories of commentary? Or the other actors on the field over the years, even Emily Swallow or Curtis? Should we go as far back as to go to the showrunner note of when to play it like a jilted lover?

None of this is a new angle that I find interesting, it was interesting a few years ago when I first shared it, but here’s where your line breaks:

Jumping from that, any of that to “if there’s no onscreen payoff” isn’t just a nonsequitor, it buries your intent.

Even I have said, it’s true! The only base definition of queerbait is to create a bunch of queer-leading content without intent to follow through! Good job on that.

But you’re missing a whole bunch here.

I’ve simply said that setting ridiculous goalposts based on personal wants is not what makes canon. I don’t care if you want a kiss or sex on the map table or a rainbow farting unicorn pony for them to ride into the horizon--those are your goalposts, and those are not the only ways, nor the only valid ways much less, to have follow through.

The lack of intent to follow through is a hilarious presupposition. And follow-through does not only transmit one way. Hets get plenty of follow throughs like, I don’t know, at the end them implicitly asking someone to dinner and that’s it, that’s their happy ending. (Detty comes to mind.) Some hets never even kiss. Nobody gets to set that specific *goalpost* and then erase all the other canon and text. That’s queer deletion. That’s regressive. And frankly that shits on the LGBT cinema history you’re trying to reference here vaguely, to which I point you to my entire LGBTQIA+ tag where I discuss a hundred years of queer cinema history and have a nagging feeling your head would actually spin for trying to break that out as an argument. Because you’ve got that backwards.

If the authors have intent to follow through on a romantic pairing, but do not give *your specific preferred thing* for *whatever* reason (in this case, from corporate interference snaring them back, for example), that is /not/ queerbait. It’s low visibility text and it’s still canon. There is no form of mental gymnastics this becomes anything else. If they have the intent to follow through and do follow through, it’s not queerbait.

I don’t care how you cartwheel, how you reframe it, and how you try to nurse your mental wounds having to face that, perhaps, the alt right and terfy propaganda that has infested this fandom under the veil of being woke to get kids to repeat it has, also, influenced you. It’s hard to admit mistakes. But your entire statement here doesn’t even add together, it’s random assertions you’ve assumed are new, but actually fall contrary to what you think they add up to.

If, for example as I speculate, they can’t kiss, for example, but squeeze in a love you under limited parameters only to go off as a unit into eternity together on their own path, decided together, and that’s as far as the writers were allowed to go? Sorry, they still had intent to follow through, and followed through to what limit they have. Ergo, by your own definition, not queerbait.

Also, regardless of the ending, that doesn’t remove *text*. I can’t emphasize this enough. You can be dissatisfied with the ending, you can even feel baited if it does or doesn’t go to a specific landmark you set your personal faith on, but that doesn’t make previous text elements suddenly subtext, because that isn’t how it works, and never has been.

Regarding unlevel social codes and how many ways this fandom has shown its own ass unwittingly, confusion over what is text, subtext, and how they all fall into a canon

https://occamshipper.tumblr.com/post/190728796970/were-gonna-try-this-again-canon-is-accepted

Being regressive and deleting your own stuff isn't helpful and often varies based on preferences rather than objective observations.

16 notes · View notes

scoobydoodean · 2 years

Text

i don't like to see anti-dean content either but it's hilarious to me that so many dean stans whose content i enjoy have this weird persecution complex about dean getting SO MUCH hate online. like i'm sorry, you guys have to know that's not true. dean is BY FAR the most popular character. are there specific dean anti blogs, yes. is spn fandom at large so accepting of anti-sam sentiment that it doesn't even get labeled as such? also yes. i dare you to say one anti-dean thing on twitter and not get ratioed. call sam a twat and say he should have been killed in the crib, 876 likes.

From one of my polls.

There was that poll I did a while back (on request) of “who do you think receives the most hate/who is most liked online among TFW” and people chose Sam as the most hated and Dean as the most liked. I never weighed in with my own perception so this is a decent springboard.

So I like—both agree with this take and don’t, and I think I can lend some insights about the sensitivity of some Dean fans. SPN Twitter seems like a complete and total cesspool of disease and I avoid it at all costs. So I can’t speak for Twitter fans and will not. If Sam hate is what they’re up to all of the time, god bless get better soon Twitter SPN (you won’t but oh well). I’ll make this one about my personal observations on Tumblr and Reddit.

I absolutely 100% agree Dean is the most liked by and large. He’s the most popular of TFW in every poll I’ve ever seen on Tumblr and Reddit, even despite season 13-15 where Dean hate was fucking everywhere. Like, not “Dean is lame/boring” shitposts but like short essays amounting to “Dean is a misogynist microaggressor abusing Sam and Cas” that were getting hundreds of notes (sometimes over 1000) especially on episode airing days and were every other post at one point in the Dean tag. Reddit was no better in any episode discussion thread. This is, in my mind, where the really bitter and protective mindset of a lot of Dean fans came from and the perception that Dean gets the most hate. There were definitely some bitter Dean posters out there before then who always thought like this, but they were a smaller circle of like two dozen people on Tumblr. The Dean hate was super wild during 13-15 and embittered a lot of Dean fans. Personally... this site was fucking miserable to be on as a Dean fan during 13-15 and I was actively being recommended Dean anti posts as “in your orbit” all of the time, saying the stupidest bullshit (imo) but getting hundreds of notes.

Since the finale, however, Dean hate has practically dropped off the face of the planet again. People who always loved Dean reclaimed him out of love and grief and started shitposting about how he’s never done anything wrong in his entire life. However, you can still surf “anti Dean”, “anti Sam”, and “anti Cas” on Tumblr and find out what 3 people (last I looked) post anti Sam materials versus what kind of hate Dean and Cas get. (Or the variety of other random Dean hate tags like “Dean h8″). You can still find on AO3 the fics written about Sam and Cas escaping evil abusive Dean. I do think there’s possibly been a slight jump in Sam crit stuff, not even because of anything Sam did, but because of Jared. So “who’s the most hated” is also a question of “when?”.

The Dean hate Dean fans got mad about wasn’t one sentence shitposts that said “I hope Dean dies” or “I would sell Dean for one corn chip”. What Dean fans got mad about for the most part were posts that basically amounted to, “Dean has no right to grieve his dead mother or have even a moment of realistic rage or grief over that” and “the fact that Sam flinches when he hears loud noises is proof that Dean has been abusing him” and “Dean is obligated to love and parent Jack” and “Dean isn’t allowed to cut people out of his life even temporarily but they’re allowed to cut him out of theirs and in fact should be applauded for doing so”. These were not unpopular posts during Dabb’s run. They weren’t piddly little posts getting 5 notes or upvotes. They were popular sentiments on Tumblr and Reddit in terms of silent voting (likes/upvotes). I think one reason Deanfans can be super protective over Dean getting hate for things they don’t think are fair/his fault/show glaring double standards is specifically because a big part of Dean’s story is his childhood parentification, and the impact that had on his sense of self-worth and his tendency to heap guilt on himself for things that weren’t his fault or his responsibility. This is a life long struggle for Dean and one that is never resolved in the series. Even in the show’s finale he is putting himself down. Even in season 14 he is talking about how he’d be sent away if he stepped out of line and the next episode has his dad there in his presence and there’s no confrontation or catharsis or conversation about the impact of that. Parentification is directly connected to being held to different standards than ones peers, having higher expectations of your behavior, being expected to parent and take care of others despite how it’s affecting your mental health, and being ridiculed and demanded to accept blame for things that aren’t your responsibility. The type of hate Dean was getting, sometimes in essay length posts with hundreds or thousands of notes, often perpetuated these themes as legitimate instead of distancing from them. Some Deanfans also idenitify with these experiences on a personal level because of their own childhood experiences, so reading these things said about Dean didn’t just feel like an attack on a fictional character, but an attack on them and their perceptions of their own childhood experiences. Stans of everyone in TFW sometimes feel this type of thing as a personal attack because of identifying with Sam or Cas or Dean—that isn’t limited to Dean fans, but I think the nature of the types of hate comments and hate essays Dean was facing are important. It wasn’t just “Dean is a boring character”. It was “Dean is an abusive monster”. It was the nature of the comments.

Now... I do think there is a good argument to say Sam is the least liked, but I don’t tend to think he’s the most hated—the distinction being the severity of the feeling, I suppose. I... simply don’t think people who popularly don’t like Sam care enough about Sam to hate him. o_O The most frequent complaint about him I see in posts with lots of notes (and again—this is limited to Tumblr and Reddit because Twitter can die) is that he’s boring and undeserving of attention for that reason. The last time I saw this, it was also directly in the context of someone making a meme to claim Sam was interesting and Dean was not, and people dogpiling it to thousands of notes to say that Sam is boring and Dean is a more interesting character essentially (and most of the hate was actually about Jared rather than Sam, blaming him for making Sam boring... which is a whole other issue, and you won’t catch me fighting the claim that Jared is the most hated actor among the cast at any point). Low-key Sam hate is widespread. I agree with that. If you want to find Sam hate essays, where Sam is called a classist, a narcissist, a manipulator and emotionally abusive, you typically have to go back to like—season 9. Sam simply doesn’t seem to inspire obsessive hate essays in the last 5-6 seasons. That said, Dean stans are like... totally blind sometimes to how many people simply don’t like Sam or Cas... And a lot of hardcore Dean stans gatekeep liking Dean to the point that they don’t see a lot of people who consider Dean as their favorite as “real” Dean fans, and thus perceive Dean’s “actual” fanbase as small because interpretations of Dean and reasons for loving him can vary a lot at times.

Even some people who like Dean though, do shit post about him being stupid, homophobic, sexist, and otherwise at times, and get 1000s of notes on it because people think it’s funny. So. I guess what I’m saying is that I have this weird inner distinction between “hate” and “dislike” and don’t think being the most liked and the most hated are mutually exclusive, and I think sometimes people think lowkey hate is funny, even about their faves. Maybe it’s a zoomer thing? Idk.

But what I’ve also said before stands—that people will notice hate about their fave more, and thus tend to see them as getting the most hate. Not just because they’re more sensitive about comments, but also because they see content about their favorite character more and seek it out, and among that content, they will find hate/crit posts, and that can skew ones perception of how many there are for ones favorite versus other characters. I’ll be the first to say though, that I have struggled to find Dean fans to follow who aren’t at least kind of Sam crit, and I’ve struggled to find Sam fans who aren’t at least kind of Dean crit. I don’t think most destiel shippers care about Sam. I think wincest and bibro fans like him a lot—often the most. Dean, being one side of the two most popular ships, is hated more for seeming to favor one over the other or not being loving enough or having boundaries, but he’s needed on both sides, and very popular. In the end, I don’t think it really matters who gets the most hate and I don’t think the fixation on one-upping each other in terms of who is the most hated is productive or even remotely enjoyable as a passtime. I’d rather focus on enjoying the characters instead of being upset about what other people think, at least now that the show is over and hate as faded down a ton... it’s just not mentally healthy to wring ones hands over it all of the time (and this is why, even when it was popular, I always tried to handle things with humor). Anyway, fuck the haters.

11 notes · View notes

spiritclusters · 3 years

Text

Fic Review -2-

This is an ongoing series where I read, review, and generally fan about SPN fics that I've read. Because it's one of the deepest desires of my soul to discuss fics in detail with people, and fan and generally just be a nerd, like you would with a original story Unfortunally, I really, really want to do this with the authors, but I'm shy and reclusive, and don't feel comfortable doing so. So instead, I'm going to make a giant tumblr post to describe how much I love their work.

So, no crit in these reviews, just love

*If you have a recommendation for a SPN fic (gen, preferably), your own or someone else's that you want me to read and "review", please leave and ask or DM me with ( less than 20k for now), thanks! :D

Today's victim: Tetelestai

Requested by: @choppedcoploverfarm

Set: S14

Parings: gen

Length: 2.9k

Main character: Sam

READ THE TAGS!^^

^^please take care of yourself. This fic delves heavily into torture and if you aren't comfortable with that, you are under no obligation to read it.

Summary:

Written for the Sam Winchester Prompt-a-Thon - the prompt is "crucifixion".

The boy with the demon blood must be cleansed.

(EVERYTHING BELOW THIS CONTAINS SPOILERS!)

Reasons You Should Read This:

Sam!Whump

Protective!Dean

Sam and Dean being bros

Michael's treated as a frightening villain

Beautiful descriptions of pain

Dean breaks free of Michaels control because Sam is in pain

It's just, in general, lovely <3

+++ My Analysis of the fic: +++

Writing style and why it works:

The writing style is very pain based, which I think is appropriate given the circumstances. Sam is literally hanging there and dying, what else is he going to focus on? The focus on pain and how descriptively ugly it is is just beautiful.

The humor is also fairly dark and gallows-based, but again, very appropriate given the circumstances.

Also--the author making Sam's thoughts more slurred and less focused as time passes in the fic was such a wonderful detail. We can see Sam slipping further away as he says his goodbyes to people he knows and assures himself that Cas will look after Jack, etc. It's just. Sad and warming all at once.

Character portrayal:

Michael is absolutely disturbing, and I like that. He feels distinct from Dean, but the speech patterns are close enough that I can sort of hear it in his voice. I appreciate that. There's also something just so...cold about him, but he's not just Lucifer in a coat. Again, he felt distinct.

Sam's portrayal here was wonderful. I like that he's just, sitting there, sassing Michael in his head even though he's dying. It's like, if he can't do it by mouth, it doesn't matter. You won't cripple him of his tongue. But on a more serious note, I do, deeply appreciate that Sam...isn't really fighting back. It makes so much sense with his history in the Cage, that when extreme pain like this comes, Sam doesn't even really try. He knows that the best thing he can do is grit his teeth and bare through it, and I think that the author has a good understanding of that. I thought that was a great detail. <3

Small details that make me go "mm.":

Again with Sam not really fighting back because he knows he can't

Sam in too much pain to fight back. Authors have a habit of making characters a little OP when it comes to pain (I am unintentionally guilty of this *sheepish face*)

Michael just. Sitting there, watching Sam slowly die, breaking the "leave the hero to die while the villain goes and does the thing" trope. It also seems weirdly in-character of Michael to do this

Dean breaking out of Michael's "Happy place" because he heard Sam in pain

Dean reacting to Michael's speech with fury and pain for Michael. It's just *chef's kiss*

Dean breaks free of Michael's control because Sam is in pain, which mirrors Swan Song (5.22)

Favorite scene and why:

As this is a fairly short one-shot (at least in comparison to my, like, always 10k+ ones) , it's all one scene. That said, I really think that I enjoy the first part of this fic the most, where you're slowly becoming aware of what happened. I think that the author deciding to just jump into the prompt instead of do a whole world build and background was a good choice. Instead of lagging with that, we just get to the point. I like learning about what happened before, and I like the tension of Sam and Michael talking at the beginning. It was just. Mm.

Favorite quotes:

“You must remember, Sam, that this is not personal.”

Now he can’t remember what it’s like to inhale and not feel like his lungs are falling to pieces in his chest.

“I constructed a whole world for him, in here.” He taps at his temple. “He was happy. But something made him break out of it. I think it was you.”

“You know, it’s better for you if you remain still,” Michael says, condescending, as if Sam’s being difficult just to spite him.

Chuck’s not here anymore. Sam wouldn’t pray to him even if he was.

Sam lets himself fall

link once more

If you do read, please be sure to leave a comment or a kudos to let the author know you liked their work! :D Support goes a long way, my fellos.

Author tag or link: https://archiveofourown.org/users/iamremy/pseuds/remy

*if you know if this author has a tumblr, please let me know so that way I can tag them. :) <3

#fic rec #spn fic rec #sam and dean #sam!whump #sam and trauma #fic reviews

10 notes · View notes