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whatdoyouwanttobecalled-1 · 3 years

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I've been seeing a lot of posts about this all over social media, and while the majority of them are fine and just people expressing their opinions, a lot of people from both sides of the argument have been saying some really inexcusable stuff (such as telling people on the opposing side to off themselves, etc) and it's really pissing me off. Pls everyone idc if you agree w me or not but at least try to be mature and respectful when engaging in these conversations bc the goal is learning, understanding, tolerance, and cooperation (working together to find solutions to problems that will benefit all of us). So here's my stance on the issue, and feel free to reply, ask questions, or dm me and start a conversation regardless of your veiws. Just be nice! Here's my opinions, based off my own personal experience:

To start off: pansexuality is not inherently biphobic and/or transphobic

Yes, there are pansexuals who are biphobic, and yes they harm the transgender community in that sense. This is because generally pansexuals who are biphobic say they bisexuals are transphobic and essentially invalidate binary trans people's identity as a man or woman by saying that bisexuals are only attracted to cis men and cis women, not trans people. However, the majority of pansexual people do not think this way. Personally (and most of the pansexuals as talked to agree w me), I do not believe that bisexuality is transphobic. Why? Trans women are women, and trans men are men. If you will not date a trans person simply bc they are trans, then you're transphobic, but that has absolutely nothing to do w your sexuality. My own and most people's understanding of bisexuality (and the definition you get if you Google it, and the definition that most bisexuals will give you), is that bisexuality means attraction to 2 or more genders (which yes, could mean all), with a preference. With. A. Preference. I identified as bi to myself for years, and came out as bi for almost a year, never feeling as if the label fully fit me or that I was fully understood by the community bc there is always sm emphasis on the fact that bisexuals have a preference, while I never have. I don't think anyone is less than anyone else for having a preference, or better than anyone else for not having a preference. Pansexuality simply allows me to be apart of a smaller more specific community that fully understands my experience w attraction. I also know that bisexuality can be used as an umbrella term for anyone attracted to 2+ genders, but in the same way that it's not biphobic for lesbians to prefer to date other lesbians bc of their shared experience, I like having a smaller community that specifically experiences attraction in the same way that I do. I've also seen a lot of people talking about how people seem to think that bisexuals only care about sex, and that pansexuals think theyre better bc they're uwu innocent babies. I'm not entirely sure I'm not on the ace spectrum somewhere but lemme tell you that does not make me any less of a whore. No one is better than anyone else for how much or little they think about or enjoy sex.

2nd; bisexuality is not inherently transphobic.

Yes, there are bisexuals who are transphobic, but this is not the majority of the community. Most bi people consider trans women to be real women (which they are) and trans men to be real men (which they are). I will say it again; if you won't date someone just bc they're trans, you are transphobic, but that has nothing to do w your sexuality. As for non binary people, yes, bisexuality includes them too. Bisexuality is not inherently transphobic.

3rd; all mspec labels are fucking valid.

Whether you identify as bisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, or polysexual, you are valid. You can use bisexuality as an umbrella term if that's what you're most comfortable w, or if the definition perfectly describes your relationship w attraction then that's cool too. If you feel that pansexuality, omnisexuality, or polysexuality better describes you and you enjoy having a smaller more specific community to fully relate to, guess what, that's also cool. No one is better than anyone else, and while there are members of every community who feel that they are, they do not represent everyone.

4th; panphobia/omniphobia/polyphobia only comes from the mspec community, if it comes from outside, it's probably biphobia

Let me explain; there is no problem that comes from people who are not attracted to multiple genders that everyone on this spectrum doesn't face. Bisexuality is a spectrum that we all fall on, an umbrella term that we all fit under. This means that unless it's coming from a person or group on this spectrum, it's probably biphobia you're facing. There are 2 types of biphobia: the biphobia that comes from mspecs, and the biphobia that comes from people who aren't on the spectrum of bisexuality. The biphobia that comes from inside is only against people who identify as bisexual, and the biphobia that comes from outside is against anyone who is attracted to multiple genders. I'm not saying there aren't a few instances of people who arent mspec targeting a specific group and not every mspec identity, but most of the time, if it's from the outside, it's classified as biphobia, bc that includes all of us.

In conclusion, this is what the mspec sexualities are and some of my final thoughts;

Bisexuality = attraction to 2+ genders with or without a preference. It can be used as an umbrella term by the whole mspec community, or as a specific label on it's own. It includes trans and non binary people, and is not a transphobic label. There are transphobic bisexuals, but the fact that they are transphobic and the fact that they are bisexual are not related in any way. They are not more or less than any other mspec identity, or sexuality in general.

Pansexuality = attraction to all genders without a preference. It is not biphobic and/or transphobic. There are biphobic and/or transphobic pansexuals but the fact that they are biphobic and/or transphobic is not related to their pansexuality. Many people who identify as bisexual describe their attraction in the same way as pansexuals. This is 100% valid as bisexuality can be used as an umbrella term and the label you identify w is all about your comfort. They are not more or less than any other mspec identity or sexuality in general.

Omnisexuality = attraction to all genders w a preference. It is not biphobic and/or transphobic. There are biphobic and/or transphobic omnisexuals but the fact that they are biphobic and/or transphobic is not related to their omnisexuality. Many people who identify as bisexual describe their attraction in the same way as omnisexuals. This is 100% valid as bisexuality can be used as an umbrella term and the label you identify w is all about your comfort. They are not more or less than any other mspec identity or sexuality in general.

Polysexuality = attraction to more than 2, but not all genders. It is not biphobic and/or transphobic. There are biphobic and/or transphobic polysexuals but the fact that they are biphobic and/or transphobic is not related to their polysexuality. Many people who identify as bisexual describe their attraction in the same way as polysexuals. This is 100% valid as bisexuality can be used as an umbrella term and the label you identify w is all about your comfort. They are not more or less than any other mspec identity or sexuality in general.

Honestly, I think we all get enough hate from inside and outside the lgbtqia+ community and we need to stick together and have each others backs. It's not the microlabels that are causing problems, it's the exclusionists. Invalidating eo's experiences and saying that biphobia is a bigger problem, panphobia is a bigger problem, omniphobia is a bigger problem, or polyphobia is a bigger problem, isn't gonna help anyone or solve anything. We can have slightly different experiences and still relate and support eo. Also, even if you have a problem w a specific label, pls just ask your questions genuinely, and try to understand the opposing side. Just have a mature conversation. If you're too young or immature to do that then you probably shouldn't be on social media. Calling eo names and telling eo to off ourselves isn't helping anything and there is no excuse for it. I've always loved the lgbtqia+ community for it's love and acceptance, but the more active I become within the community itself, the more I realise how toxic it can be. Sometimes I'm genuinely embarrassed to part of this community. Especially when it's grown adults acting like children that is causing the problems. Pls do better. Thank you for your time, thank you for reading, I love you, have a nice day!!!

Also I just want to add that ik there are more mspec identities than this, and you're all so valid. These are just the sexualities that ik enough about to give a proper statement on and the ones I've seen mentioned in this discourse the most. I'm actively trying to learn more about the mspec identities I mentioned, and those that I didn't. Pls feel free to give me any info on any sexuality (doesn't even have to be mspec I just want to learn more so I can be good ally for everyone), or ask me any questions about my own sexuality, and pls let me know if there is anything I should add or any misinformation in this post (I will not be including blatant blankphobia against any mspec identity so don't even try it bitches)

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theunconcernedembalmer · 3 years

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what’s the issue with elisop? is it just bc you hc aesop as ace? im so concerned by seeing ppl adamantly opposed to mlm/wlw ships but im also genuinely curious about why you dislike it and other lgbt ships so much lol

hmm. that is a strong accusation, n i find it just a bit odd. are you new here? or perhaps you are taking personal offense at my dislike towards a favourite ship of yours and using the lgbt argument as moral high ground?

whatever the case may be, i thank you for asking. if u r truly looking for an answer, its below the cut n it is very very long. mind u these are all my personal opinions n i am in no way policing how others enjoy ships. just in case this wasnt clear; i dont wish to start discourse on this blog, especially since my takes are probably... unpopular.

firstly i would like to address the “disliking lgbt ships” bit, because this has very strong implications in itself. i have nothing against lgbt ships. i enjoy them, even. if the two characters have chemistry between each other, i ship it. however, the moment characterization is broken for the sake of romance, i lose interest. this is generally my stance on ships in general, n this applies for both straight n lgbt ships.

the ships themselves are fine. however, i do have issues with the ship dynamics, so ill let u in on that.

i want to touch on mlm ships in particular; i believe u are familiar with the top/bottom dynamic that is rampant in these kinds of ships? (i wont deny that this dynamic can be found in other types of ships, but for arguments sake i will be focusing on gay ships because i feel that this occurs more commonly here) its such a popular dynamic that is prone to stripping the personality from one if not both characters, only for them to be reduced to being dominant/submissive. for a character to be pigeonholed into a stereotypical category based on... preferred sexual positions? its just downright insulting, never mind the larger more problematic implications of it. top/bottom is not indicative of someones personality, by the way. flattening multi dimensional characters into these stereotypes is so so so insulting.

unfortunately this is The Most Popular portrayal of just about any gay ship around. ive seen it being used everywhere in so many fandoms n it just about becomes apparent to me that ppl come to stories looking for a Ship. not the stories, nor the characters, just a ship. while id like to say theres nothing wrong with that, keep in mind not everyone is just looking for 2 characters that look pretty next to each other. if i ship something, i see interesting n meaningful interactions between 2 characters, which is so often not the case once u bring in the top/bottom dynamic. why is it so popular? because somehow this is what ppl like from a gay ship n hence it sells. ppl want the drama, characterizations be damned. ppl want to see the big kiss that happens in the end, n maybe the sexy parts that come after. characterizations be damned.

so u can say im a little wary of gay ships when they cross my feed. hell, as a joseph aesop shipper i see this trope everywhere n im pretty disappointed as well. small tangent but i feel like this is the reason why zh0ngli n ch1lde is so popular in g3nshin. i try to see the appeal, i really do, but after a long while of analyzing their respective characters i dont think they have as much chemistry as ppl think they do. dont even get me started on how incredibly ooc they make either of these very interesting n unique characters in ship portrayals. all because of the top/bottom dynamic that ppl want to see. i say this for that particular ship, but this is pretty much the case for a lot of ships out there, n the latter part is painfully true even when the 2 characters do have potential between each other. ill say it again im disgusted by the blatant disrespect to the characterizations if all ppl ever want is 2 pretty puppets to mush lips together. cos thats what theyre essentially reduced to this way.

n its so obvious to see when an artist subscribes to this rhetoric, because u can so clearly see it in the way they draw their characters. the “top” generally has sharper features to go with their “dominating personality”, while the “bottom” has disturbingly softer, feminine, dare i say sometimes child like features “to submit”. n thats where the uwu soft gay trope comes from, i believe. which, in case u still dont know, i hate with a burning passion.

so again for ppl with impaired reading comprehension, im fine with ships, including lgbt ones, but the moment u break characterization for the sake of the ship, im not that okay with it. u want to do it for a short crack comic? fine. but if thats the only way ur portraying the 2 characters then im immediately wary of ur content. ill still look at it cos usually the art is really good, but im very very wary. so im not “adamantly opposed”, just very critical of how the ships are being portrayed. if other ppl want to enjoy their ships like that, sure. just dont expect me to join in on something i dont agree on.

now id like to address not shipping “because i hc aesop as ace”. for ppl who are new to the blog (hello there), im an ace in a romantic relationship, so thats definitely not the reason i dont ship elisop. its more of being in a relationship has largely shaped my views towards romance as a whole. even before i met my boyfriend, i hated the romance genre in stories n media. most of it comes off as incredibly forced, especially those love triangles they seem to love putting into teen novels. thats one reason why i stopped reading when i was younger, but i digress.

did i partake in shipping when i was younger? i did. for a gay ship too (if anyone really wants to know, its kurotsukki from haikyuu. at least this was one that i can remember, i was mostly working on my 20 odd ocs for the longest time). i also used to write little short romance ficlets that i never posted anywhere cos i hated (n still do hate) my writing. but writing romance when u dont have experience was really just a way of projecting n probably a way of coping for myself, not that i knew at that time. but after i actually started a relationship with my boyfriend (whom i love n cherish a lot thank u very much), i began to see how much all these have skewed my views towards romance n have actually done some harm to our relationship. the bullshit that the general media feeds u constantly doesnt help in the slightest either.

quick topic shift to elisop in particular (about time, right?). i already stated that i only ship characters if i sense chemistry between the two personalities, n if u have seen the part where i dont ship elisop then u must have seen how agonized i am over not being able to have a concrete personality for eli. that is the main problem i have with elisop: eli does not feel like a solid character to me. n that is a huge problem, because if he doesnt have any defining characteristics besides being mild n nice, then he can be whoever i want him to be. (i have done this in my exorcist comics, i will admit this. n the fact that i can just do that... it really does not sit well with me personally.)

n that is dangerous.

back to young me doing lil ship things. i think its also pretty safe to say when u really do ship 2 characters, chances are u kinda really relate very very hard to at least one of them. that very quickly can turn into projecting, n shipping therefore is not “exploring the relationship between 2 characters” n it becomes “my preferred dating simulator 101″. of course this isnt always the case, but at least it was for me, n subconsciously it might be for lots of ppl too. n since this is ur mental playground, u call the shots, n there is no consequences if u slightly (or even entirely) alter one or both personalities to fit ur desired narrative. n u wouldnt even notice or know, cos ur blind to ur own biasness.

we bring our perceived notions into real life, im sure u know that. so when ur partner does not become that perfect knight in shining armour, or when they get upset at things that u do (which is a very normal thing by the way), n u think (very subconsciously), That isnt what my otp would do, something is wrong here (nothing is wrong, actually its just ur skewed perception of a stable romantic relationship). why wouldnt ur otp do this? because u are both halves of ur otps, there is no hidden secrets between them (apart from the pining part but thats irrelevant), n again they have been altered to fit ur preferred narrative.

a real relationship requires a lot of communication between parties, because newsflash, liking someone doesnt mean that u have to like every single thing they do, they will make mistakes n it will hurt u, n guess what, the reverse is also true. if u do go with absoutely anything that they would do with 0 objections whatsoever, ur not crushing on someone, ur idolizing them, n that power imbalance is detrimental to a relationship. these things are not obvious to ppl, especially when the whole climate is hell bent on getting into romantic relationships by a certain age or some bullshit. communication is key n is pretty much the only way to solve relationship issues, because the other person has a lot that u r not seeing n vice versa. as similar as 2 ppl can be, i doubt u can have 100% the same thoughts on all things. i dont make the rules.

so in ur mental playground u focus on the fluffy parts, maybe there is communication, but rarely is there any meaningful conflict. thats unrealistic, n if u bring that mindset to an actual relationship, thats not going to end well. i say meaningful conflict, because yes, generally u shouldnt have conflicts with ur significant other. but inevitably when ur with each other for long enough, u will realize that there are habits that u must change in order to be with the other person. habits that are harmful to the other person directly, or harmful habits towards yourself that indirectly harm the other person. these are meaningful in a sense that if left alone, it will manifest into larger problems that will harm u, the other person n the relationship as a whole. its meaningful to the relationship.

all these is made even worse if ur neurodivergent. maladaptive coping practices, self sabotaging behaviours, inherent disabilities. all these must be adjusted n addressed. im so incredibly thankful for my boyfriend for being incredibly patient with me when working all these out, n it has not been easy for me to work on myself n all my problems, n im still not done working on them. this aspect is often not explored in romance in general (or properly), n there is a very good chance i would have still been stuck in the unhealthy mindset of “this isnt like my otp, maybe we’re not meant to be”. because loving someone is a choice. no one is made for each other, it is a conscious choice made between 2 ppl to make things work. this is how arranged marriages work, i am told, n i do see the appeal, not that it actually does appeal to me culturally.

special mention to the kurotsukki ship, cos from there i found a very, very good fic that explored their relationship before n after getting together, n it actually showed aspects of this problem in the incredibly slow burn of (at that time) 20+ chapters. it was just one fic (n a very good one at that, i believe it was called Leviticus), but it had a lesson i never thought i needed to learn, n learn it i did, with a lot of help from my dear.

this is also probably the reason why i dont really want to delve too much into romance now. i know its a lot of work, n everything (mostly) that the media feeds u is really false advertising, but ppl eat that shit up n so it remains one of the most popular genres to date. im just very wary that if i do start on a romantic story, i want to be able to show it in a way like that fic did, the truths of relationships, because i dont want to make something that sells, i want to make something that meaningful to me, if a little indulgent. n that also includes being very careful in how the respective characterizations will change in a relationship. almost too careful now that i think about it, but its not something that i mind. i was never one for romance from the start, n now im very careful about shipping because of what happened to me persoanlly.

okay enough about me, lets talk about aesop. in any au u put the character in, the essence of the character must remain despite the change in environment. so lets say we have ur typical modern au. dead mom, check. shitty mentor doing illegal stuff? also check. autistic boy with social anxiety? we’re good to go. all these have implications on aesop as a character, n while ppl are aware of this, again the way they go about portraying it can go, in my personal opinion, very wrong. ppl who immediately woobify aesop completely because he has autism annoy me. ppl who reduce him to uwu soft boi cos he has social anxiety do not know how the disorder really works n as someone who has that i hate it to the core. ppl who do all these for the sake of ship have lost my respect. its insulting.

remember the top/bottom dynamic? not that elisop is completely free from that (even if i dont know much about eli, to put him in either one of those stereotypes feels very insulting to his character. i wont even say anything about doing it to aesop its so upsetting), but its not entirely made up of either. but now i want to introduce another trope i am very wary of, which is “i can fix him”. im sure u guys have seen the meme going around poking fun at this trope (for those who havent, its along the lines of “u can fix him? well i can be his worst nightmare”) n no doubt yall would have seen it n gotten sick of it in some forced hetero romantic bullshit. we have one damsel in distress with a saviour that solves all their problems just by existing n being romo with each other.

remember “my preferred dating simulator 101″? this is not mutually exclusive n from my point of view this is dangerously close to this trope. lets be real, if it was actually a thing that all ur deep rooted trauma magically disappears if someone were to waltz into ur life, we would want it. definitely. no painfully dissecting ur own problems n constantly facing them head on. real life states that this is not the case, but it will not stop us from dreaming. n so this trope is born n lives n will go on.

(finally) pulling aesop n eli into this, at least in my mind, u have one severely traumatized boy with lots of issues n u have this. nice mild guy who can be anything u want him to be. i hope u can see where im going with this, n thats the direction i see some elisop heading towards (i dont read a lot of elisop to be fair). if u came from my eli character talk, i mentioned that it is incredibly one sided. this is exactly what im talking about.

putting it all together in case u havent already, aesop is the damsel in distress, whose problems magically disappear because of elis godly kindness n little to no work on improving himself, n they lived happily n gayly ever after.

can u tell how much that does not appeal to me.

never mind the butchering of character that inevitably happens somewhere somehow, the unrealistically perfect themes n implications of this trope makes me so viscerally uncomfortable. this is, of course, due to personal reasons, n i definitely see the appeal of this dynamic because i would probably have been interested in this once upon a time as well. but as i am now, with everything i have explained up there n everything i have been through, i would politely rather not.

n its difficult to think of another dynamic, because of how little i know about eli apart from him being this saint, which easily makes him a candidate for being aesops trauma panacea. never mind aesop rarely, if ever, does anything for eli as a character in return, n its so damaging to buy into this rhetoric, where a person like this who would solve all ur issues no strings attached exists somewhere in the world. they really dont. a relationship has to be mutually benefitting, or it will be draining n disastrous. maybe u say, Oh its nice to imagine it once in a while. n yeah, i agree, except once in a while is a little difficult to keep track of n that is sort of what happened to me. id rather stay as far away as possible from this kind of unrealistic fantasy, i just got this shit sorted out with myself n my boyfriend.

i have some other reasons, but theyre more personally problematic, so i wont go into them here. but this is mostly n generally why i do not ship elisop romantically. if u do, u do u, and have fun, but again dont expect me to join u. thank u for coming to my ted talk, this took a lot longer than expected.

#mun rambles #its me the mun #unconcerned ramblings #posting this now cos this is a question ive been getting #although this has been worded in the most unnecessarily passive aggressive way possible that i do not appreciate #im wary about all u so called social justice warriors championing this n that liberal idea when all u want to do is stir shit #thankfully i dont have much experience with this but just passively seeing all these ppl run their mouths is getting very annoying #but just know that i will not tolerate any of that bullshit here. because if u really do care about ppl as much as u say u do #then why r u attacking ppl period #ur really just hiding behind a righteous excuse to harm people. thats disgusting. i dont want u here

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