#no need to take it personally that someone points out loveless aros exist like what's the point of that

[uselessnbee]

i am tired of the way people act like aromantics feeling other kinds of love is some kind of redeeming quality

every time there's a post about aromanticism the comments are flooded with people saying how aromantic people can still feel love it's just not the romantic kind and like yes it is important to point that out because it is true that some aromantic people still feel other kinds of love but not all!! and that's okay!! some aromantic people don't feel love at all and it doesn't make them any less valid! and i'm not saying people need to stop with those comments there's nothing wrong with that but the moment someone tries to point out that loveless people exist and are valid others start acting so fucking weird about it

i have a really weird relationship with love i use the word "love" to describe how am i feeling about people or pets or other stuff because it's the closest thing to describe how i feel but at the same time i'm not 100% sure what i feel is actually "love"

it doesn't probably makes sense but i just feel like i don't feel love the same way others do, the same way this society deems normal and how i am supposed to feel it and so having people act like me feeling other types of love or attraction that are just not romantic and sexual is something that redeems me from not feeling romantic love just makes me really uncomfortable

i don't want people to keep pointing out how i can feel other types of love as if it's the only thing that makes me valid

like and what if i don't? what if i don't feel love at all? does that make me less valid? it should not. i should be valid for being me for being who i am not for being able to feel any kind of love.

i am tired of the way love is treated as something that makes us human. i'm tired of people acting like people who do not feel love are suddenly terrible and inhuman. it's just a fucking emotion and not everyone needs to feel it. if someone told you they can't feel hatred would you suddenly tell them they're terrible and inhuman because feeling hate is what makes us human? no because that's fucking stupid. how is it any different with love?

i could write whole essays about how fucking stupid it is that people act like feeling love and empathy is what makes us human and good people. there are some absolutely vile and cruel people in this world capable of doing monstrous things and some of them do feel love or empathy. does that suddenly make them good people? does that suddenly erase all the terrible things they've done just because they feel certain emotions? no it really doesn't. so why should it be any different if it's the other way around. good people are good because they choose to be kind. people can be the kindest souls on this earth and don't need to feel love and empathy.

i know i'm rambling and probably don't make sense but i'm just really tired. i'm tired of people acting like me being able to feel other kinds of love is what makes me valid. like me feeling love is that one good thing about me. i want to be able to say proudly that i am aromantic that i am aroace that i don't feel romantic love without needing to clarify that yes i do feel other types of love as if that's what makes me better. i am not better or more valid than loveless people just because i "can" feel love or whatever other bullshit

they're valid too and i want to be valid without needing to "feel love" i want to feel like i would be valid and accepted even if i wouldn't feel love at all

#i'm sorry guys i just needed to vent #vent post #aromantic #aromanticism #aroace #loveless #i am proud of being aro of being aroace and i want to stay proud even if one day i decide #that what i feel isn't actually love and i do not feel comfortable using that word #amd i don't want to feel like i'm seen as better or more valid in some peoples eyes #because i feel love #loveless people don't deserve to be treated this way #i needed to rant about this because i saw a post where people were only commenting how aros can still love #and i commented that not all of them that some people don't feel love at all and that's okay amd it #doesn't make them any less valid #and majority of yhe replies were other aros saying they still feel love #and like great good for you babes but that was so not the point of my comment #no need to take it personally that someone points out loveless aros exist like what's the point of that

[aroapl]

hello! first off, this ask is not at all meant to be antagonistic and i am genuinely coming from a place of wanting to understand. i've always been extremely for "people can be and identify as whatever they want, so long as they're not hurting anyone". what i'm struggling with is that last bit and the way that i am seeing some people using the aplatonic or loveless labels.

i am both aro- and ace spec myself, so i definitely understand not having emotions or attraction in the way that a lot of people feel that you should. and while i am pretty high empathy myself, i'm also friends with people who have low or no empathy and have no trouble understanding that that's just another way of existing and doesn't mean that you can't have compassion for people or treat people decently. my best friend has no empathy and is incredibly supportive and caring.

i also totally get when i see people iding as loveless because the way that our society (especially western society) uses the word "love" is so weird and definitely not universally relatable. completely understandable.

i've seen many people identify being aplatonic as meaning "idk i just don't really Connect with people in the way that i see most people talk about, if my friends all moved away, i wouldn't really be bothered" okay, cool. i don't Get it, but just seems to be a different experience.

where i'm really struggling is not to condemn or get angry at people who i straight up see saying "i'm loveless meaning i don't care about other human beings and if any number of people just died right in front of me i wouldn't care. if i saw someone in trouble needing my help i'd walk right past them. i hate humans". i haven't seen a TON of people express this, but i've seen enough to where i feel like they can't all be trolls, and i'm not sure how to respond.

i've also seen a lot, like definitely the vast majority of people i see pop up on my dash who id themselves as aplatonic, say that they feel horribly lonely and disconnected and just Can't make friends...therefore they must be aplatonic, and they should stop trying and be "naturally" isolated. a lot of these people also mention having past trauma, and a lot of them seem to be young teenagers.

now. i am of the opinion that identifying yourself "incorrectly"--eg, a young trans woman identifying as ace before she figures out she's trans because she has no interest in sex as someone who's seen as a man--isn't ever really harmful. not having sex with anyone isn't going to hurt you. briefly deciding you're a lesbian isn't going to hurt you if you're actually a trans man.

but these teenagers i see iding as aplatonic because they're unable to make connections with people but want to really worries me. if you don't have any close friends or even casual friends and are totally happy with that and id as aplatonic, that makes sense and seems perfectly fine to me. but i just can't make "i id this way because i'm miserable" mesh with my worldview, nor can i make "i id this way because i hate everyone" mesh either.

in the past when i've brought this up to people with the loveless able specifically, it's incited threats of violence, doxxing, and a lot of ableism, which tbh did the opposite of convincing me it was a harmless label.

do you have any thoughts on this?

(Little preface to say I consulted a server with a lot of apls and loveless folks in it to get a second opinion on how to respond to this. So, some of this is entirely my own thoughts and some is paraphrased from another loveless apl. This person did not want to be credited/named.)

I’m gonna start with my main thought on all these points, which is this: there are always going to be some people that identify with a label for the “wrong” reasons, and there are always going to be some assholes and some people you fundamentally don’t agree with in every label/community. None of these things ever make it okay to try and get rid of or police a label, to take it away from the people that genuinely find community, joy, and self acceptance in it.

A lot of what you’re saying here is quite frankly just classic aphobia, the same stuff a lot of people say/think about aros and aces just directed at apls and loveless people. There are plenty of aros that desperately wish they could like romance and have romantic relationships, and there are aphobes that think these aros are just mentally ill and that the aro label should be done away with to “save” them. There are some violently sex negative aces out there, and there are aphobes who think they speak for the whole community and that the ace label should be done away with because of it. There are people that mistakenly identify as ace and/or aro because they’re struggling with other things, and some of them isolate themselves because of it in ways that genuinely do harm them, and there are people that think ace and aro are inherently harmful labels because of this. 

Whether they truly are aplatonic or just falling back on the aplatonic label because of other struggles, some aplatonic people genuinely wishing they could make/keep friends and feeling lonely doesn’t mean that the aplatonic label as a whole is a problem. Like I said, people misidentifying in ways that do actually harm them in some way is something that can happen with any label. Also, trying to make someone drop a label that doesn’t actually fit them and force them to face the problem that led them to it before they’re ready to is rarely helpful. A lot of people in this situation would at best feel disrespected and upset, and at worst double down on their misidentification or have a serious mental health spiral over being made to face a problem they aren't ready to face. People wrongly IDing as aplatonic might find understanding and resources in our community that help them heal, they might be miserable the whole time they ID as apl and eventually move on and get help afterward, or they might learn and heal in other ways or go on to struggle for a very long time. Either way, it’s not the job of outsiders to decide someone is identifying with a label for the wrong reasons and make them let it go. 

(Also, a side note on this point. While aplatonic is currently primarily defined and used similarly to other aspec labels, there have been several other definitions that differ quite a lot. One of these definitions defines it as struggling to make or maintain friendships due to neurodivergence, or just generally struggling with friendship. Some people do still use this definition. Some of these people you’re talking about may be using this definition.)

Now on to lovelessness. Some of what you’re saying here gets into ableism, particularly towards people with personality disorders. Some people with personality disorders genuinely just aren’t capable of caring about strangers like that, or people in general. Some often aren’t capable of going out of their way to help people, or struggle a lot with it. That doesn’t make them bad. People can’t control how they feel. As long as they aren’t hurting anyone, people can feel or think whatever they want. Thought crime isn’t real.

Now, if someone is actually hurting people and using the loveless label as an excuse, that’s obviously not okay. The thing about that though is that taking the loveless label away from them won’t make them stop hurting people. They will just find another excuse, or stop bothering with having an excuse. An asshole is still going to be an asshole no matter what label or excuse they attach to it. On top of that, some people within an identity/community being bad people doesn't make it okay to vilify everyone that shares that label or get rid of that label/community. 

I’m genuinely very sorry some people have been ableist and violent towards you, that is never okay. I do need you to know though that despite what may have been good intentions, this does come off as aplphobic, loveless antagonistic, and a bit ableist. That can rightfully inspire anger and defensiveness in people with these identities, especially since many of us are already used to having our identities antagonized, disrespected, and demonized. Since you’re aroace-spec, imagine how you would feel if someone came to you and expressed these exact same sentiments, but towards ace and aro identities instead. Imagine how you’d feel if some came to you doubting that ace and aro identities should be allowed to exist because they’d encountered some aces and aros that were mean or unhappy in their identify.

At the end of the day, not everyone is going to share your worldview, and that’s fine. You don’t have to understand them or like them, or even get along with them, but they have a right to exist as they are even if you don’t agree with them or like it. If they aren’t hurting you, simply move on and focus your time and energy on the people and communities you do like and understand.

#aplatonic #loveless #loveless aro #apl #aplphobia #loveless antagonism #arophobia mention #acephobia mention #ableism mention

[ckret2]

Okay so I got an ask like,

anonymous asked: whose ur favorite Hazbin character? Like your absolute #1 and why?

and technically my answer is Alastor, but Sir Pent is such a close second that I gave my reasons for him too in that ask, and now I’m making a second post about Alastor.

Reasons I really like Alastor but like, only slightly more than Sir Pent:

- Honestly “I can suck ya dick” *IMMEDIATE BRAIN BREAK FACE* is probably the moment I, like, mentally latched on to Alastor’s character, and at that point I don’t think I even knew yet that the creator had said he was ace. It just... I could feel the aceness in my soul. Like that thing where Jedi run into somebody and go “oh you’re strong in the Force, I can tell.” That was just such a perfect and succinct ace joke, and by that I mean like it feels like a joke from an ace perspective. Like it was so relatable.

- tbh half my reasons for liking Alastor are “oh that’s relatable,” which is hilarious, because like... I don’t like characters because I relate to them, ever, but because I think they’re interesting in their strange/different ways. Alastor is the sole exception I can think of where half the reasons I like him is because I look at him and go “oh big mood.” Other ace or aro characters I’ve seen in the past just make me go “oh... okay. cool. nice, representation for me” and then I don’t really care about them. Alastor, though, the SECOND I learned he was ace, something in my brain went “FUCK YES. ONE OF OURS.” I immediately sat down and started writing a character study fic about Alastor being ace/aro in the exact same precise way that I’m ace/aro, and that was even before we got confirmation that he was aro. I was ready to go all in on him anyway.

- Half the reason I like his ace/aro-ness when I don’t care about it as much on other characters is because like... usually, when you get an ace/aro character, it goes one of two ways:

1) their entire character is built around/“in tune with” their ace/aro-ness, in a way. Most obvious when you have the stereotypical “robot/alien that cannot love,” but also seen in “character that is naive and pure and innocent and lustless,” “character that acts like an actual literal child,” “character that acts like a bad autism cliche,” “character that’s too cold or cruel or emotionless to feel love,” etc. And that’s boring, when they’re only ace/aro because the writer cannot imagine a character Like That being any other way, or because the writer cannot imagine an ace/aro being Any Other Way. 

Or, 2) they’re written as “too normal,” as in, like, NOTHING ABOUT THEIR PERSONALITY or life experiences or anything seems shaped AT ALL by the fact that they do not share an internal sense of lust and/or romance that most of the rest of the human species not only has, but also is obsessed with.

And Alastor falls in neither camp. He’s gregarious and talkative and puts on little performances wherever he goes, and he obnoxiously butts in on somebody else’s group project by begging for an opportunity to help out and then obnoxiously volunteers his friends who hate him to help with the group project, and he’s manipulative and dangerous and secretive and violent, and he hides his emotions and he disguises when he’s feeling weak... and also the quickest way to throw him off his game is to make a sexual pass at him because he’s blindsided so hard by it that it’s like for a moment there he forgot that sex exists.

And that’s what I want to see. A character whose personality isn’t based on/tied into his ace/aro-ness, BUT we can clearly see his character IS INFLUENCED by the fact that he views the world through a completely different lens from everyone else.

I can imagine that Alastor had to puzzle through What Is Love/What Is Desire, purely on a psychological “what’s going on inside other people’s heads?” level, as an outside observer incapable of participating it and trying to understand it based on anecdotes and fictionalized accounts and descriptions and conversations, comparing it to the emotions inside his own head and trying to go “so it’s kind of like this feeling plus that one and those, but More, and Different, and in that Other Direction.” I can imagine that as a kid Alastor “decided” to have crushes because he knew it was about that time it should be starting, and it hadn’t happened by then, so maybe what he needs to do is pick whoever he thinks is best-looking and get going with the crushing on them, right? I can imagine that Alastor spent his teen years waiting for his desires to “turn on” the way they did for everyone else, and being slightly puzzled when they took so long, but also okay with it because the more he thought about it the more it seemed like it was probably a nuisance—no one around him was someone he’d like to be attracted to—so he was fine with the fact it was taking so long, and he sort of assumed that it wasn’t because he didn’t have the capacity for desire but because none of his peers were desirable to him. I can imagine that he had his first kiss at like fifteen and thought it was horrible and gagged on it, and within an hour decided this was absolutely hilarious.

I can imagine Alastor having all these experiences—which are experiences I had. I’ve never seen another ace/aro character I can easily and naturally imagine having a single experience in common with me. Because no other ace/aro characters feel to me like ace/aro characters. They’re either characters with an ace/aro sticker arbitrarily and meaninglessly slapped on them, or they’re a walking stereotype about lovelessness.

- Besides Alastor’s spectacular Asexuelle Panique™ face, the other single line that made me latch onto him was “Why does anyone do anything? Sheer! Absolute! Boredom!” There are some very specific character types that I’m an absolute sucker for, and one of them is: extremely powerful character, at the top of their game, unstoppable and uncontrollable and unmatched, a loner who likes it that way, BUT they’re bored as hell, either because they’ve met all their goals or because they don’t know how to set any—and the boredom is eating them up inside, it’s driving them slowly mad, the sheer tedium of trying to fill one day after another with nothing to do is weighing down on them, if depression is usually compared to a heavy rain then this depression is like an endless empty waiting room, or depression like solitary confinement, or depression like an unmoving sun shining on an infinite flat desert, the depression of a completely empty hollow life leveled flat by infinite interminable boredom, a boredom they would do ANYTHING to get rid of, a boredom that’s like a withdrawal, a boredom that makes your hands shake and your pulse quicken with desperate need for the drug to stave off the withdrawal symptoms, but god, you don’t even know what the drug IS, you just know you NEED it, some form of stimulation, ANY stimulation, you’re going mad in this empty desert with your hands trembling and the withdrawal clouding your mind—

Have I mentioned that I have ADHD? Did you know that untreated ADHD can result in depression specifically due to chronic mental understimulation? I keep telling myself “bruh, don’t headcanon Alastor as having ADHD, you don’t even headcanon that he has any other traits that line up with ADHD symptoms,” but like. That one line. “Sheer! Absolute! Boredom!” I felt that in my very bones. There is desperation in that man. There is desperation in him that speaks to me like nothing else does. Like to the point that if it turns out that Alastor secretly DOES have a secret evil manipulative scheme going on I’m going to be annoyed/disappointed specifically because his driving motive isn’t boredom, lmao.

Anyway I feel for characters like that. I like to explore that desperate despairing boredom. I like to force them through that understimulation withdrawal, drive them to do stupid wild desperate things to try to get the stimulation they need. And then, when I’m feeling nice, I like to help them find a cure. Usually I imagine the cure is “dude, you’re such a loner that you’ve cut yourself off from the rest of the human race, you have NO human connections, even when you’re technically interacting with other people you’re still completely emotionally isolated inside your own shell. Make some goddamn friends and start to care about other people and their lives and you’ll find that the act of having other people exist in your world who matter to you will give you that stimulation you’re desperately missing.” Because these desperately bored characters are also desperately emotionally isolated. And they might be happy/content in their isolation—but they’re not doing anything to cure their own understimulation like that.

(“Hey OP is that how you cured your understimulation?” nah I got ADHD meds.)

- Remember everything that I just said about how much I love that Alastor is aro? Well forget everything I just said. Chuck it out the window. Bye.

So every once in a while I find a character that, for whatever reason, I really, really, really want to see pining. I want them to be in love, and I want it to be unrequited, and I want it to go on for years. I want them sobbing in private and then hiding it completely when they face anyone else. I want them to hurt so bad they feel like they can’t breathe. I want them unable to think about anything but their beloved. I want it festering inside them like an infected wound. I want it to hurt. Forever.

(“Hey OP do you uh, do you ever, yknow, want them to get their loved one?” yeah sure whatever)

For some reason, Alastor is one of those characters. Why? I dunno. I haven’t figured out my mental pattern on these ones yet. Maybe it’s specifically because it’s so incongruous with his outward appearance/and attitude. Maybe it’s because he’d do a really really good job at hiding it, but also I think he’s probably kind of a mess inside under his mask, and I think adding unrequited desire under that mask would mess him up anymore in really spectacular ways. Like a china cabinet that shifted in an earthquake so that if you open all the doors all the plates will fall out and break, except they’re already all broken inside of the china cabinet, but he’s in denial about that as long as he doesn’t open the door. I dunno, I’m speculating.

- On that note: I feel like he’s probably, like, hypercompetent and super powerful and super successful on the outside, but actually he’s a sort of screwed up dork who’s got no idea what he’s doing. (I present the furby organ as supporting evidence.) I like extremely powerful deeply feared dorks, ESPECIALLY when they have no idea what they’re doing.

- Also, affable villains. Totally friendly/sociable and totally evil.

- I dig his weird radio schtick. Like, Radio Stuff isn’t a thing I specifically like about characters, but on him I think it’s cool. Character gimmicks that can go a lot of ways and that you can do a lot of stuff with in character development are fun.

I think that covers all the important bases.

#alastor #hazbin hotel #meta #anonymous #ask