#mxtx vs meatbun

[ultimateshixiongfuckertournament]

Round 2, Match 5: Quan Yizhen vs Mo Xi

Match 5 is between Quan Yizhen (shixiong: Yin Yu) from Heaven Official's Blessing vs Mo Xi (shixiong: Gu Mang) from Yuwu / Remnants of Filth

Propaganda under the cut

Quan Yizhen:

Obsessed with his shixiong, much to said shixiong's chagrin. Someone who's a proper quanyin shipper can write better propaganda, but I just know he belongs here

Someone who's a proper quanyin shipper can write better propaganda

Well, okay. So Quan Yizhen was originally a street kid that was taken in as a disciple by the sect master at Yin Yu's (the shixiong in question) request because he was impressed by Yizhen's potential. But all the other disciples hated Quan Yizhen's guts due to a mix of his utter inability to read social cues and envy towards his raw talent, only Yin Yu was nice to him which is why Quan Yizhen's obsession with his shixiong took off. Yin Yu is the only person Quan Yizhen cares for.

Eventually his cultivation led Yin Yu to ascend to godhood and he took Quan Yizhen to heaven with him as a deputy god because he knew he couldn't leave him alone. Quan Yizhen doesn't care about prestige, he only cares about martial arts and shixiong, so he asks Yin Yu if they can't go back and if ascension is really that great to which Yin Yu replies to give it a try: Quan Yizhen does and actually ascends as a proper god.

However because Quan Yizhen is so naturally talented he quickly came to eclipse Yin Yu, which he didn't even realize because, again, he has zero social skills. This festered resentment in Yin Yu who eventually exploded and told Quan Yizhen to go kill himself... while Yizhen was wearing a robe that made him follow all fo Yin Yu's commands, so he almost does kill himself. He was stopped and Yin Yu was thrown out of heaven.

But!!! Quan Yizhen doesn't care about any of that! He still wants to meet his shixiong and is sure it was all a misunderstanding. Quan Yizhen actually beats up his own devotees if they trash talk his shixiong, nevermind that as a god his existance is dependant on said devotees. But he doesn't care about that! He only became a god because of shixiong.

When he finally meets his shixiong again, he recognizes him by Yin Yu's mannerism despite Yin Yu wearing a mask. Yin Yu hits him on the head with a shovel and he still doesn't care!! Quan Yizhen still follows his shixiong like a loyal puppy. When later Yin Yu dies trying to protect him Quan Yizhen cries and apologizes for not being able to protect him despite only being good for fighting. Quan Yizhen carries his shixiong's corpse all the way while heaven if falling apart. The last chapter implies Quan Yizhen is trying to nurture Yin Yu's soul to get him back and in the post-canon extras Yin Yu makes a cameo. So Quan Yizhen was succesful!! Death can't take him from his shixiong!

give it to quan yizhen!!!! his whole THING is unconditional love for his shixiong. No matter what Yin Yu does, qyz will love him forever!!

#i will not have my boy who literally calls out SHIXIONG any time he sees yin yu#and desperately chases after him even after everything#lose like this

#yall better give this to quan yizhen#if there's ever a shixiong fucker IT'S HIM

#yes!!!!!!!!#quanyin#he loves him so much!! it’s unconditional!!#vote qyz#tgcf#svsss

#quan yizhen is a real deal shixiongfucker#admit that every time you see his name you're screaming “shixiong!!!!!” reflexively in your head#polls

#qyz propaganda: wdym this guy was ready to kill and be killed for his shixiong#qyz is the most precious#he fights his worshippers if they talk shit about his shixiong#never minds the fact that said shixiong nearly got him killed#THE SUN AND MOON PAIRING#he's the epitome of head empty only shixiong

Mo Xi:

Mo Xi is an "abstinent" & prestigious general who had a (technically only sexual) relationship with his shixiong, Gu Mang, before Gu Mang defected to an enemy nation. The novel starts when Gu Mang is sent back as a prisoner of war. The amount of sex is shown in the flashbacks is honestly wild, so, like... we know how much of a shixiong-fucker Mo Xi is in excruciating detail paksbekwks

Mo Xi has the reputation to be the most uptight man in Chonghua but then you get into his head and he is only wishing his shixiong would come back to him, even when said shixiong is a traitor. Every time Gu Mang does something, Mo Xi is either on the verge of tears of horny gripping for his life and no in between.

#quan yizhen #yin yu #quanyin #heaven official's blessing #tgcf #mo xi #gu mang #yuwu #remnants of filth #mxtx vs meatbun

[weishenmewwx]

My Danmei 耽美 Literary Adventure

Seven Seas Chinese Danmei novels, Notes Masterlist

Some of my favorite books, especially, The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, The Husky and His White Cat Shizun, Stars of Chaos, and Guardian, are now officially in English! Thank you, Seven Seas.

These notes are here to help friends who may not speak Chinese or have enough Chinese cultural background to understand the nuances presented in these works, or are just getting confused with all the different terms of address.

Please forgive me if I have missed anything, and dm or comment if you have anything to add!

魔道祖师 Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation

by MXTX

二哈和他的白猫师尊 The Husky and His White Cat ShiZun

by Meatbun 肉包不吃肉 (Rou Bao Bu Chi Rou)

Usage of the word "Master" vs "Teacher"

How to pronounce people's names (bc it does NOT follow the rules of English pronunciation)

Book Annotations

杀破狼 Stars of Chaos

by Priest

Volume 1 is up now!

镇魂 Guardian

by Priest

Coming eventually :)

#魔道祖师 #魔道祖师小说 #MDZS #MDZS novel #MDZS novel translation #MDZS novel annotations #Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation #Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation novel #translations #MXTX #MXTX novel translations #二哈 #二哈和他的白猫师尊 #肉包不吃肉 #The Husky and His White Cat ShiZun #Meatbun doesn't eat meat #2ha #2Ha pronunciation guide #how to pronounce Shizun #杀破狼 #镇魂 #Stars of Chaos #Sha Po Lang #Priest #Guardian #Zhen Hun

[aworldforastage]

2023 "To Read" List [updating]

This is less of a "to read" list that I'm try to work through and more of a compilation of recommendations that I find interesting. Definitely something that would likely be longer rather shorter by end of the year.

My current plan is to add and rearrange new titles as needed, but new additions will be annotated [NEW]. If I finish a title in 2023 , I can cross it off (yay dopamine!) and keep it on the list, because recording that once in my reading log list just isn't enough.

Titles in each category are roughly arranged for "priority," like, very roughly.

Historical & Wuxia

Probably my favorite genre, dating back to my childhood watching period dramas growing up in China. Sometimes I want to wrack my brains figuring out all the details in intricate political plots. Sometimes I want to escape to a fantastical adventures with swords and long-flowing robes. I love everything here.

杀破狼 priest -- Sha Po Lang -- Part of me is like trying to "save" this fic for when I feel like I invest sufficient attention and emotion in it, since it's like one of the most recommended titles in my favorite genre.

无双 梦溪石 -- Peerless

乱世为王 顾雪柔 --To Rule in a Turbulent World -- [finished about 2/5 and paused]

一剑霜寒 语笑阑珊 -- A Sword of Frost -- this title is one of the first overwhelming recommendations I got when I started reading danmei, but somehow I still haven't read anything by this author

暴君[重生] 漫漫何其多

江湖遍地是奇葩 语笑阑珊 -- Everywhere in Jianghu is Wonderful

督主有病 杨溯 -- Governor’s Illness

帝王攻略 语笑阑珊 -- The Emperor's Stratagem

山有木兮 非天夜翔 -- Shan You Mu Xi -- Can't help but be curious after Joyful Reunion

鹰奴 非天夜翔 -- Yingnu

江东双璧 非天夜翔 -- Twin Jades of Jiangdong

逐王 水千丞 -- The Blood Crown

Xianxia & Historical Fantasy

I think of Xianxia as my "home" in danmei, since I started in the genre with mxtx books, but since you need to keep track of the fantasy world building components as well as the historical ones, most of these are not easy reads you can sneak in for a quick break during busy days.

六爻 priest

余污 肉包不吃肉 -- I have been told this is not a bad way to get a sense of Meatbun's style without committing to the monstrosity (wordcount-wise) that is 2Ha

魔尊也想知道 青色羽翼 -- Devil Venerable Also Wants to Know -- [1/10 progress, paused]

天宝伏妖录 非天夜翔 -- Tianbao Fuyao Lu

定海浮生录 非天夜翔 -- Dinghai Fusheng Records

二哈和他的白猫师尊 肉包不吃肉

南禅 唐酒卿

铜钱龛世 木苏里

剑名不奈何 淮上

桃花债 大风刮过

如意蛋 大风刮过

琢玉 墨书白

折枝 困倚危楼

Actors/Celebrities

I find this genre very easy to read because they share many of the same world-building elements, and I enjoy themes of balancing public vs private identities, which all of us do to some extent in our daily lives.

台风眼 潭石

营业悖论 稚楚

2401 功夫包子

明日星程 金刚圈

内娱第一花瓶 三三娘

空降热搜 颜凉雨

人设之王 娜可露露

Modern (General)

Includes genres like mystery, E-sports, romance, etc. I may have the highest expectation of this genres because it's too easy for it to feel "not real enough"

AWM[绝地求生] 漫漫何其多-- AWM[PUBG] -- [In progress 1/10] The most recommended E-sports novel, to the extent I feel bad I didn't start with this one.

火焰戎装 水千丞 -- Blazing Armor

燎原 不问三九-- [In progress 3/5] "Mature men in love," fans say.

纸飞机 潭石

过门 Priest

皮囊 潭石

附加遗产 水千丞 -- supposedly one of the best 188 novels in terms of quality,

犯罪心理 长洱 -- fun fact: I found out that for a long time before 2017, this was by far the most popular danmei on JJWXC, and it's still one of the Big Three Mystery Novels along with Modu and Poyun.

沉舟 楚寒衣青 -- in progress 1/5. I'm fascinated by what appears to be the only well-know story (or just the only one left?) that focuses on elite Chinese politics, which of course, has gotten a lot less fun and safe and speculate about since then.

你的距离 公子优

年花 静水边

大哥 Priest

荣光[电竞] 龙柒 -- wait this has one million + words?

邪门的爱情出现了 丧心病狂的瓜皮 (ABO)

Urban Fantasy, Infinity Flow & Quick Transmigration

The "Modern but with magic" or "Modern but multiple stories in one story" genre.

不要在垃圾桶里捡男朋友 骑鲸南去

薄雾[无限] 微风几许

烈火浇愁 Priest

判官 木苏里

纸片恋人 楚寒衣青

病案本 肉包不吃肉

BE狂魔求生系统 稚楚

我五行缺你 西子绪

步天纲 梦溪石

全球高考 木苏里

Science Fiction

"More in the future than Modern" or "Apocalypse".

小蘑菇 一十四洲

残次品 Priest

一级律师[星际] 木苏里

不死者 淮上

日落大道 卡比丘

寒武再临 水千丞

2013 非天夜翔

High School & Campus Romance

This is the genre I'm least likely to read, but since these titles come up in so many recommendations ....

某某 木苏里

好运时间 卡比丘

可爱过敏原 稚楚

我喜欢你的信息素 引路星

信息素说我们不可能 毛球球

撒野 巫哲

轻狂 巫哲

Non-Danmei

三体 刘慈欣

重生之将门毒后 千山茶客

北城天街 非天夜翔* -- I'm unsure if this should be thought of as danmei or a "serious" novel, but I've been told to brace for tears

Notes/Remarks

Science Fiction is the only genre on my list (in the beginning) that includes the original "Big Four of JJWXC": Feitian Yexiang, Shui Qian Cheng, Priest, Huai Shang, unless I also merge the two historical genres.

[lostintherealmsofthefandoms]

Going to Twitter.

Week 1:

Accidentally creating a war about HC because I said he wasn't obsessed.

Nearly creating another war about mxtx vs meatbun all cause I said mxtx fans fight while 2ha don't.

Going back to Tumblr where there's not war like this.

#mxtx #2ha #erha #husky and his white cat shizun #mo xiang tong xiu #hua cheng #twitter is cool but sucks #this fandom is more toxic in fb than in twitter #tumblr remain being the best

[hamliet]

So, this person mentioning your 2ha metas made me get curious about it so I wanted to look for them but then the first thing I found was this: "I think 2ha had the potential to be as rich in complexity as MXTX's works, but instead settled for a more traditional black/white version of the morality" and now I'm actually more curious about this line 🤣

You see... I've alway failed to get the whole hype regarding mdzs and its morally gray this, morally gray that. And it doesn't help that the Chinese fans I know also complain about it, they're like "wwx is the hero, why western fans are so obsessed to change this? Why they don't do the same with their heroes?"... And they also comment on how mxtx is pretty clear about the morals of their characters and I feel like I get both sides but again, not really the obsession with the matter. Because then there's the fact that, while I agree with meatbun not treating SQT well, I don't feel like MXTX did it better when it was only literally wwx the one having his happy ending... Everyone else is dead or condemned to be forever alone for some reason... and even someone as jc is someone who, imo is pretty clear, MXTX thinks doesn't deserve anything but loneliness (the fact there's no woman who wants him according to her, he has no friends, he has no real bond anymore with anyone...). So, honestly, I don't feel like if MXTX wasn't clear about who are the morally correct and the morally wrong in her stories just as I don't feel she was any more fair with her secondary characters for the sake of wangxian happy ending. The same goes with her other works where all the characters that are antagonists in different levels, just like in mdzs, get what "they deserve" 🤔

Ahhh okay, I've seen this argument floated a lot, and it's become a bit of a pet peeve for me, so I'm going to take a bit of time to respond to this... There is a lot here to respond to.

For starters, I would caution you about categorizing of "Chinese fans" as if they are one monolith; they are not. They are also not different than western fans in terms of being human; they are closer to the cultural context of the story, but that doesn't inherently mean every interpretation is correct or textually supported. For example, I haven't seen at all your claims about WWX being the hero (I saw it from a western person, and if the Tweet is what you're referring to, they took the quotes shockingly and almost laughably out of context): while I'm sure Chinese fans do say this... so do western fans. A lot. In fact, Jiang Cheng is very not popular among Chinese fans in polls, while Jin Guangyao is. The point is, you can't say Chinese fans vs Other fans in a simplistic way to make any claim of substance.

As for MXTX's statements, I literally do not take authorial interviews into account in analyzing stories, nor do I really understand why people do. I'll quote Dostoyevsky here: “Don’t let us forget that the causes of human actions are usually immeasurably more complex and varied than our subsequent explanations of them.” Authors explain things in overly simplified ways, and explaining a novel that runs on complexity simplistically is never going to be satisfying. You also have to look at the full picture: she's said pretty cold things about Xue Yang (much worse than about JC), but has also defended him from antis, calling him "my son" and saying that she loves him more than any readers because she created him. I don't doubt this is the same for Jiang Cheng.

"jc is someone who, imo is pretty clear, MXTX thinks doesn't deserve anything but loneliness" I do not think this is true. The notes about Jiang Cheng's dating life are humor. You may not find them funny, but they're clearly intended to be humor. Framing matters (I'll discuss framing in a bit.) It is also factually incorrect to say he has no real bonds. He clearly does. Jin Ling is a bond.

Everyone else is dead or condemned to be forever alone for some reason... I also don't see what you mean by looking at the story, or whom you might be referring to. Song Lan went to restore Xiao Xingchen's soul, to heal it. The juniors went from being antagonistic to being friends with each other. Wen Ning helps Sizhui with his heritage. Lan Qiren accepts Wei Wuxian as Lan Wangji's husband.

The ones where I can kiiiinda see people assuming this are with Jiang Cheng and Lan Xichen, but I also don't think the framing is taken into account. Jiang Cheng has Jin Ling, and much like with Lan Xichen, I think people expect spoonfeeding where nuance works better. The trajectory of the novel--towards healing, towards the younger generations doing better than the older ones--indicates that there will be healing that continues beyond the main story. Not everything needs to be spelled out. I doubt Lan Xichen will be in seclusion forever like his father; his father had Lan Qiren (a flawed if well-intentioned man), but Lan Xichen has Lan Wangji, and I highly doubt Wei Wuxian is going to leave brother-in-law miserable. I do think Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian will form a new bond, because they are both clearly involved in Jin Ling's life. Neither of them are really good at cutting off bonds (like even after WWX's death, Jiang Cheng was looking for him). I wrote more on this here.

What is missing from most of these discussions is framing. framing, framing, framing. It tells you what to think about a story's events. Yes, Jin Guangyao and Xue Yang die, but how is that framed as "what they deserve?" Xue Yang dies with a candy in his hand, which if you want to rely on MXTX’s statements, she literally said she did that to show that he was not a heartless monster. Which is indeed what the text implies. For JGY, you have Jin Ling bawling and realizing his uncle was good to him too, Lan Xichen tricked into killing him when he wasn't doing anything, Wei Wuxian realizing how wrong it was and that they are the same. That's tragic framing, not "haha got what he deserved." The literal point of tragedy is that it shouldn't end this way. Tragedy is not "justice." Tragedy has injustice as its main point. You are supposed to be sad.

I've talked about tragedy in media before, and will quote Arthur Miller's "Tragedy and the Common Man" here:

The possibility of victory must be there in tragedy. Where pathos rules, where pathos is finally derived, a character has fought a battle he could not possibly have won. The pathetic is achieved when the protagonist is, by virtue of his witlessness, his insensitivity, or the very air he gives off, incapable of grappling with a much superior force.

Pathos truly is the mode for the pessimist. But tragedy requires a nicer balance between what is possible and what is impossible. And it is curious, although edifying, that the plays we revere, century after century, are the tragedies. In them, and in them alone, lies the belief-optimistic, if you will, in the perfectibility of man.

What is the "much superior force" in MDZS? It's society. And yet, because things are gray, society is not fully evil. Like with Dostoyevsky's novels, people need each other. They need each other to heal and to fully live; seclusion is not a Good Thing. But also, playing the political game kills, so society also corrupts. See here.

What is society if not a reflection of the human being? Born with tendencies towards good and towards evil. Someone who can corrupt, and hurt, and also heal others. Someone who can comfort an orphan with a dog and also torment his father to death. Someone who can kill thousands of people and also risk his life to save others. People who are complex.

By saying "gray morality," I'm not saying that there is no good or evil, but instead that context determines much of this; empathy matters as well, and so what is evil to one person may save another person. That said, there is an overall moral implication that people living is good, and empathy is good. Gray morality has never ever meant moral nihilism. It just means that instead of thinking "there is no right choice sucks to suck"; it should be "there are no choices that will heal without hurting; hence, let's empathize with those who make those choices instead of condemning them." Black/white morality is exemplified with Nie Mingjue's character, who ends up stuck in a coffin for 100 years after being used like a puppet to kill innocents. I think black/white morality is pretty clearly condemned.

Imo, claims that only Wangxian got a happy ending and everyone else was sacrificed for this are based off of personal projections and impressions, not off careful analysis of the text that takes culture, literary allusions, tone, framing, and the like into account.

Wangxian are a gay couple, aka already challenging societal understandings on love. They leave society to heal and then return to help others, which is as far from a "f*ck you got mine" attitude as you can get. It's an old trope used as far back as the Bible: after some time away, you return to go into the world and save. The salvation isn't religious here but it's empathetic. They want to be a part of their loved ones lives.

Wei Wuxian never thinks that he didn't deserve death for what he did, even if the context leading up to it might well justify him feeling that way. He does not think Jin Guangyao deserved what happened to him, at the same time. He does not think everyone else's sacrifices were justified. If WWX is supposed to embody morality, as black/white people claim, then why do they disregard chapter 113?

It's fine for people to prefer things to be more spelled out (they are in TGCF, for example!) but I think MDZS is a novel that is heavily based in nuance (like, that's a central theme), and so when people approach it with an attitude of expecting spoonfeeding, they end up confused.

#ask hamliet #rants #mdzs #mdzs meta #wei wuxian #wangxian #lan wangji #lan xichen #jiang cheng #jin guangyao #jin ling #jiang wanyin #wei ying #lan zhan

[baiwu-jinji]

Once upon a time, I remember I sent you an ask about how Mo Ran wasn't someone you could really call promiscuous and then... I forgot! First of all, it was because I wasn't looking for a convo about it because you were just starting the book so the truth is, I just saw what you replied... I also saw another person sending you something which makes me think they misunderstood what, at least I considered, was the topic: just Mo Ran being promiscuous, and not as a way to judge his morals in general.

Now you know about the long hatred flower and how he started going to the brothels after it but I remember that my point at that time was to just leave clear that even without this plot twist, Mo Ran actually isn't part of the bad boy trope who sleeps around because he can't or is afraid of connect with people emotionally. You know how common that is? But my bad to sent that anyways when you were just at the beginning orz

Anyways, I also commented on how his sexuality IS something interesting to analyze because it's a very important trait of him as a character, both the fact he has these dark desires and the fact he tries to suppress them out of guilt because of what he did to cwn. Then there's the fact that only CWN awakes that in him and how I like the way Meatbun plays with the concept of the Madonna-whore complex regarding how he sees Shi Mei vs CWN... but I like how she uses it a tool to give us hints that it is CWN the one he actually wants in every sense (it's interesting when the trope is usually the other way around, and it's always the true love ™ the one the protagonist has the most "pure" feelings while it's just a whim, the one he is just sexually attracted).

I laughed with some of the screenshots you showed from some people in the Chinese fandom. I genuinely dont feel mad at those who dislike Mo Ran or CWN at the beginning... about people who hate 2ha... well, those I prefer to not read them but of course I respect people's dislikes. I find interesting how I feel as if the Chinese fandom is pretty monoshipper? They seem to be pretty protective of their ship, infidelity seems to be a very big deal for them (not as if it isn't irl, but you know how the westerners multiship a lot) and I confess I love how Meatbun and MXTX are very vocal about not separating their main couples, haha.

Sorry this is all over the place and random and late and and... whatever this ask is. I really enjoy your takes on things.

Hi once upon a time anon :),

For anyone interested, anon was talking about this ask and this one I got when I started reading 2ha. First to respond to your last paragraph, yes I think there’s an implicit rule in the Chinese danmei fandom which is 不拆官配, “don’t separate the canon ship,” if you do, people would think you’re disrespecting the canon and the author.

I love the point you made about Mo Ran’s feelings for CWN as a subversion of the trope of putting the true love on a pedestal (and I love the points you made in that whole paragraph). And yeah now I see that Mo Ran isn’t exactly part of the bad boy trope, but for him sleeping around is a way to self-sabotage and close himself off from any possibility of forming emotional connection. In his present life, Mo Ran reflected on his Taxian-Jun days and reached the following conclusion in chapter 188:

如今想来，那些欢爱，与“欢”无关，与“爱”也无关，反倒像是他在混乱泥潭里陷入，堕入，让自己显得更脏，更深，自暴自弃，恨不能把自己的骨头缝都染黑。

黑到极处，就不会再渴望光亮，奢望救赎，就不会再斗胆想拥住那人世间最后一团火。

Translation:

“Now that he thinks of it, those pleasurable lovemaking had nothing to do with either ‘pleasure’ or ‘love,’ rather it was as if he was sinking and plunging into a muddled mire to make himself appear filthier, more fallen, more hopeless, to dye himself black inside and out.

When the blackness reaches its extreme, he would no longer have any yearning for light, any hope for redemption, and he would no longer dream of embracing the last fire in the world.”

Deep down Taxian-Jun still yearned for CWN’s affection, but he knew he couldn’t have it and courting CWN’s affection isn’t supposed to be what he’s doing, so his promiscuity is a way to resist the desire to be emotionally and physically close to CWN.

#2ha

[spockandawe]

What are your favorite chinese webnovels? What are some of the differences youve noticed between cnovels and other types of novels?

That second question is really, REALLY interesting, and I really want to answer it well, and I am REALLY sure I’m going to do a bad job of answering it, so let me just noodle about that first question for a minute while I try to think XD

I went through some of my TOP-top favorite novels in more detail yesterday, but generally speaking, mxtx and meatbun are both at the top of the pack. They’re really good at writing compelling main characters and balancing piles of angst with plenty of humor and pulling everything together into a very satisfying ending (which is something I don’t alwaysssss see, even in some of the novels I really like). After them, The Disabled Tyrant’s Pet Palm Fish (transmigration, ancient chinese prince falls in love with pet fish) and Golden Stage (ancient chinese gay arranged marriage between bitter enemies(?)) are two novels that I love a lot, which both have very cute romances and go a bit lighter on the main character suffering front, and which I broadly recommend to anyone who’s interested in the genre. They didn’t end stick the landing QUITE as hard as an svsss or tgcf, but they still were very nice.

Then, let me see. I’m trying to remember which books I’ve read in the last year, and am doing a terrible job, haha. I will say that a book I enjoyed for like... eighty percent of it and then the ending let me down terribly was The Dreamer In The Spring Boudoir (modern day career woman transmigrates into barely-fantasy ancient china novel as the disliked primary wife of a nobleman), which is also the only straight webnovel I’ve read so far. The main character and romance were delightful, but that ending... haha, wow, I felt betrayed. But I did like the first half very much!! I’m idly contemplating a deliberately-partial reread. Then I’m currently like two chapters away from catching up with the current translation of The Wife Is First (ancient chinese prince lives out time travel fixit fic, determined to treat his spouse better this time around). I’m also catching up on Heroic Death System (transmigration, across MANY universes, where the goal is to die heroically in each one, and also maybeeeee to find his boyfriend in each one. this shit gets fucking bananas. in one of them, he emotionally seduces his boyfriend while he’s a dolphin. in another one, he’s a sentient mushroom. i’m in the middle of a section titled ‘I Am An Evil Pen’. yes, like a writing utensil type of pen. this is the weirdest book I’ve read so far). Oh, and Thousand Autumns (righteous sect leader gets sabotaged and loses a fight, wakes up blind and amnesiac, demonic sect leader is like ‘lol i bet i can turn him evil’ and accidentally catches feelings along the way).

What else... I’m keeping up with (but behind on) some others. First, there’s How To Survive As A Villain (modern terminally ill CEO transmigrates into stallion novel, wakes up as villain, accidentally seduces hero). Then, we’ve got Transmigrating Into The Body Of The Heartthrob’s Cannon Fodder Childhood Friend (only modern webnovel I’ve read, young man transmigrates into beginning of gratuitous whump book, back in high school, and is determined to protect the protagonist from all the canonical suffering). Then there’s Pulling Together A Villain Reformation Strategy (guy transmigrates into story as the hero’s childhood friend who will eventually become his enemy and get killed, successfully acts out his part and dies, completely fails to realize he’s broken his friend’s heart in the process... and then wakes up in another character’s body). And then there’s The Villain’s White Lotus Halo (a transmigrator keeps bouncing from universe to universe as a cannon fodder villain, who gets like half a line before being killed. he tries to purchase an upgrade package so he can be a COOL villain instead, but accidentally gets sold a ‘white lotus halo’ package instead, so that no matter what he does, everyone is just DEEPLY moved by his appearance and is positive he did nothing wrong). All of those are EXTREMELY delightful. You may notice a running transmigration theme, which....... yeah, I think there are a TON of delightful stories in the webnovel scene that deal with this genre, which seem so rare in English language media.

Which makes a good transition point to what’s different about the cnovel scene! I’ve seen hardly any transmigration stories in English, and I’ve got a couple go-to examples for when I’m trying to explain it, but like. Only a couple. Which is such a shame! Like, there’s the default idea of ‘I was reading this book and then I woke up inside the book!!’ but it’s clearly such an established genre that people are playing with it in all kinds of interesting ways, like in The Villain’s White Lotus Halo or Heroic Death System setups. It’s kind of wild to me, because it seems like such a gimme for a nice easy story structure? Whatever kind of world you want to present, there’s no need to introduce it to the reader from the ground up, or find a good way to hook them in. Either the main character read the book in question and can explain the premise and why we should care in pov, or the main character is new to the universe too, and trying to find their own footing. I enjoy it a lot! I’ve sampled transmigration books that didn’t grab me, but I’ve sampled way more that did. 

And then, the one semi-technical answer I thought of to this question was the way that these novels tend to handle pov. It’s not a hard-and-fast rule that regular novels are restricted to one pov, or that pov can only change at hard breaks in the story, but if I saw a bog-standard american novel glide from pov to pov the way these novels regularly do, I would tend to wonder if it was sloppiness or a mistake, or I would grump to myself about how I don’t like omniscient third person pov. And I still don’t know exactly what I think about this, or why it’s different in here, but I’m pretty sure I like it a lot, especially for stories where the romance tends to play a large part :V 

I used to read a lot of Books About Writing, and read plenty of stuff about why you don’t DO this, but.... I like it! In dtppf, Jing-wang can’t talk, and when Li Yu is a fish, he can’t talk, and drifting from one of their perspectives to the other gives me lots of useful information about how they’re both feeling. Could that be conveyed through restricted pov? Maybe! But I’m typesetting the svsss extras right now, and I’m in the bing-ge vs bing-mei section, and we get a few brief flashes of bing-ge’s thoughts, and it’s so NICE. It’s information I would not have otherwise received, because Shen Qingqiu sure wasn’t going to notice it. But early in the story, that pov was withheld from me, which also made sense (or hua cheng’s pov was withheld from me FOREVER, which makes me so sad ;u;). There don’t seem to be any hard and fast rules, which makes me really nervous about writing fic and trying to match the style, but I do like it a lot! 

And I’m definitely not able to articulate this in the way that I would like to, or speak with any real authority (I’m not that widely read in the cnovel scene, and i’m not very genre-adventurous in english), but there’s something about the role that the romances play in these stories that’s different from what I’m used to expecting, and it’s VERY tasty to me. I only rarely read romance novels, because I’m not often interested in the romance as a primary plot driver, but the romances in these books play a more substantial role than I’m used to expecting. And I’m into it! It’s a balance closer to what I’d expect from, like, a shippy longform fanfic. Which covers a lot of ground and is NOT a precise measure, but there’s more emotional weight given to the romance than I would expect, but without the romance carrying ALL of the emotional weight, and it strikes a perfect balance for me in a way I’m not used to encountering. Now, some of this could definitely be due to me not finding the right authors, or right subgenres, or whatever. But in the genres I inhabit, it’s a subtle difference, but one I find compelling.

Oh, one last thing. The cultural differences, duh :P I’m only familiar with things like, say, ancient chinese court etiquette through a lens of fan-translated novels like these, and I didn’t grow up steeped in the culture in a way I’m used to the trappings of something like medieval european courts. But there’s a distinct flavor to the social dynamics of these novels, from the formal levels down to the casual, and I know it’s super intricate and detailed and that authors play with differing degrees of historical accuracy vs fictional fun, and I wish I was better equipped to speak to the nature of any of this. But I find it really compelling! I recognize that it’s only new to ME because I didn’t seek out chinese media before now. And, the point that I originally wanted to get to before I got super distracted: the flirting. The flirting and teasing are a very different flavor from what I would expect in most english language media, and I love it, even if I can’t speak to how much of that is purely cultural, and how much of it is like... the conventions of How Fiction Is Written varying by culture, if that makes sense. I adore seeing what flirting and affection and indulgence and attentiveness look like in different settings, and these books, with their heavy romantic focus, absolutely deliver.

#spock replies #long post/ #i've read more novels than i thought :p #i thought it wasn't many #but then more kept occurring to me #i've only read a few that i don't recommend period but i've read a lot of good ones #Anonymous

[bitterfrosts]

random question if that’s okay ?

what was your impression of mdzs / cql going in ? like before ever taking in the content n such ,, did you know what you were getting into ?

the only thing i knew was wen ning trying to sell turnips and wei wuxian criticizing him so i thought we gonna have a nice time trying to make a living being farmer bois 🌻🥕( which like not completely wrong they were for a bit but— )

I had no clue honestly and at first I was under the mistaken belief it was just another kdrama my twitter oomfs were obsessed with at the moment. I figured the dynamic was protag!lwj vs villain!wwx (to like, a traditional degree, not the “falling off the deep end” the show actually is)

I... attempted to read the novel but mxtx’s writing isn’t my cup of tea. It’s more of a personal preference thing. I adore meatbun’s writing so far tho!

[serpentinerose]

The White Cat’s Divine Scratching Post was written in the same year as SV and I hardly see anyone calling that a fanfiction of sv, and it’s got shizuns, transmigration, second chances, demonic cultivation, the whole nine yards. These tropes all tend to be repeated in the same genre, that’s to be expected, but every author has their own take on it... there’s no reason to constantly be comparing or being others in like a certain author owns certain tropes... just a miffed anon here

Thank you for this contribution, anon! I’ve heard of that novel but haven’t read it. I think there’s just a lack of context for these comparisons; it makes sense that if their first exposure to danmei or common tropes in Chinese fantasy fiction was MXTX, they would think those novels set the bar, when in fact the genre is much older and draws from even older traditions within mainstream and classical Chinese fiction. 

Adding to say that I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to compare similarities among novels and talking about how different novels treat certain tropes. I think it can be quite interesting to do a comp-lit kind of analysis of say, how shizun fuckery was treated in-universe in 2Ha vs. Yuwu vs. SV. But ascribing one novel as influencing the other when the author hasn’t come out to say as such is a bit premature and even a little disrespectful, especially within a fandom context rife with these kinds of deification of MXTX as the tropemaker already.

Adding another time to say that calling 2Ha a FANFIC of SV gets my blood boiling so much. The more I think about the way that was phrased, the more I see it as demeaning to Meatbun even if the intention was to say it was “inspired by.”

#2ha #ask