#morally gray tim drake

[fic-ive-read]

Link To The Fic

#tim drake #janet drake #jack drake #bruce wayne #dick grayson #jason todd #conner kent #bart allen #damian wayne #tim drake is robin #fae!tim drake #tim drake is red robin #tim drake needs a hug #bamf!tim drake #fae magic #canon typical violence #morally gray tim drake #temporary character death #dark tim drake #manipulative tim drake #no relationship

[cr1mson5returns]

Listen to me. Listen to me. Tim deserves to be 19 and thriving and making it everyone else's problem.

He's not been Robin since he was 17 and maybe the Red Robin series happened here, maybe it didn't, but either way it hardly matters now. He's not angry about it anymore but it's an inside joke between all the kids for reasons that Bruce doesn't understand (and probably won't ask about). He grew his hair out long enough that he can tie it back in a messy bun or a half ponytail, and he's gotten at least one tattoo to cover a more conspicuous scar he couldn't explain away easily to the press. He got his GED and he's taking college classes in an artsy major specifically because it pisses off the stuffy old men at Wayne Enterprises. Paparazzi have snapped at least two dozen photos of him skateboarding through downtown Gotham in a Givenchy sweater over ratty-ass jeans and heavy combat boots. Clips of him being a complete fucking gremlin at a public event have become standard meme templates. He's Lex Luthor's second most important nemesis purely because he's bratty and annoying and clowns on the guy on socials all the time. He's rabid. He's ungovernable. He's so endearing because of it.

#tim drake's tendency to fight anything that moves #morally gray tim drake has my heart #that's not specifically in this post but i love that interpretation of the character so i'm tagging it here #tim drake #red robin #batfamily #cr1mson's thoughts

[brown-little-robin]

speaking of fictional characters who have committed atrocities—

#truly the most tim drake thing about me #is that I'm capable of atrocities and know it #but I'm strict with myself about Not Going There #so I come off on a scale from Striving For Righteousness to downright Kindly depending on how much I'm trying #and how well I'm succeeding. #like I'm decidedly not on the side of the atrocities. but I do *somewhat* live in a world of moral grays #so I can be friends with the Jason Todds of the world. #rereading Young Justice number 36 and 37 and discussing it with Rebekah made something CLICK in my head about Tim #and it was: he wants to be a paladin but he lives in a world of grays. He's jealous of people who live in black-and-white #such as Kon #but he is incapable of doing that #and part of the reason is... compassion. #He can empathize too much with darkness to completely condemn sinners.

[rock-in-robins]

Young Just Us AU (or not depends tbh) of a yj that are more morally gray than their typically portrayed as. If they didn't kill canon they don't kill here, but pretty much everything else? well, if it gets the job done. Here the yj is kinda like how they were in the show, an off the books 'black ops' type of team, but with way less supervision.

They have little to no relationship with the league after realizing how badly they failed them as kids. The only they keep in contact with each other is that they both know yj knows too much and is too powerful to be in that complete gray area.

With everyone else mostly retired it's the core four (but others come help if their in town), and their known as a powerhouse team who is scarily good at what they do. They've got three major powerhouses and a world class strategist, all of who have some very impressive feats under their belts.

Their funded by Tim who is still CEO/Majority shareholder of WE, though he's starting to get involved with Drake Industries, he's in the odd place of partner/son/colleague place with Bruce that he can never quite escape. But after the timestream/eurotrip thing he's ready to take the next step forward, without batman.

Kon and Clark have reached a point where they understand each other, but for both interacting is just painful all round. so they aren't super close but will always come if the other calls, both say they'll try harder in a year or two, who knows if they ever will. kon doesn't know how to forgive clark for their earlier relationship, that, he is working on.

Cassie and Diana are still great but Cassie can't forgive the way the league has treated her people, especially as their leader. so she works/trains with Diana but want's nothing to do with the rest of the league.

For Bart, he and Wally have some cain and able shit going on so post max's death they still interact on occasion but thats about it. all parties are doing their own thing and everyone is ok with that.

this entire au is YJ becoming more independant and kicking ass and finding a bunch of loners they mentor/adopt

#shades of grey yj au #how good of menotr/gaurdian/parent the league was depends on the run so in so don't come @ me for league slander #honestly a group of people that big and powerful has to have some shady shit going on #tim drake #kon el #cassie sandsmark #cassandra sandsmark #wonder girl #superboy #bart allen #impulse #dc red robin #red robin #yj98 #young justice 1998 #young just us #young justice

[misrepresentedmorallygrey]

PROPAGANDA

Jason Todd

Jason is as someone else put it succinctly "a mass-murdering terrorist and tax-evader". He does evil, the story constantly condemns him as evil and sinful and thuggish and stupid and uneducated and overemotional. He does have a lower and more selective kill count than Luke Skywalker, John Wick, Disney Mulan, etc. So you got part of the fandom writing an annoying flood of fan fiction about him being a warm soft nice guy skipping through the daisies with his fam (hey have fun, guys). Then you got another side picking out the worst ex-canon comics for him (while they ignore the worst ex-canon comics for their own fave characters i.e. "my fave only did evil because of a mind-control potion, but Jason always chooses to be evil even though the story and the writer himself said he was crazy and broken and suffering from magic insanity")... and accuse him of being a cop (he is a cop-hating cop-killing terrorist murderer criminal thuggy thug thug constantly being hunted by law enforcement in a world bursting to the brim with actual copaganda while the heroes regularly cooperate with police—so many anti-fans are misusing the term copaganda because they hate this fictional character to the point they want to train people to be blind to actual copaganda). Jason is absolutely a villain—and he returned to his hometown when it was a battlefield with hundreds killed in the latest conflict, ruled over by a child-killing torture-enthusiast. War is always wrong and evil, and Jason was raised to be a soldier in that war—and when the promises of justice and safety never came true, he decided to seize power through murder. Jason is evil. He is inarguably a lesser evil than what usually plagues the town. Innocent people are alive because he got his hands dirty. He is such an asshole. People like him should not exist. He shot a 10-year-old in the chest, and nobody not even the 10-year-old cared the next day because it really wasn't a big deal. He was kidnapped by a billionaire with a taste for young boys, and it's literally not a big deal. His crimesagainst fashion are unforgivable tho.

Batman's adopted son and second Robin that got killed by the Joker and came bag to enact a revenge plan by becoming a Gotham drug lord. He had a duffel bag of 8 decapitated heads at some point and planted a bomb on the Batmobile and then got his throat slit by Batman to save the Joker. He stole his older adoptive brother's (first Robin) identity and blew up a high school but he forbade Gotham's drug rings from selling to children and actually became an anti-hero in Gotham and killed the people Batman wouldn't (rapists, drug lords, etc.). He attacked his little adoptive brother (third Robin) and beat him to a bloody pulp. He also slept with Batman's baby mama. He raised a fucked up Superman clone with kindness. He has lead teams of Outlaws on multiple occasions that love him. He's on good terms with many (not all) of Gotham's vigilantes.

Listen. I love the guy, I love him dearly, but I feel like people these days are trying to make him like completely justified in everything he did?? And like you can see where he’s coming from, sure, but my man did absolutely beat Tim Drake, a teen, half to death for the crime of being Robin. He’s morally gray! He had decapitated heads in duffle bags! Let my guy be morally gray please stop woobifying him

Jason Todd is regularly stripped of his autonomy in fandom to make him more palatable and “redeemable”. They attribute his legitimate trauma, annger, and pain driven actions to “pit madness” a side effect of the way he was resurrected. Not only that but so many people don’t even know what he actually does when he comes back, it’s like a shitty game of telephone where each person tells the next a slightly altered version of his return and at the end everyone thinks that Jason hates the kid who took up the Robin mantle after him and wants to kill him and that he is mad at Bruce for no reason and all Bruce needs to do is tell Jason that he is loved (despite Jason having a lot of evidence to the contrary) and everything will be all better. His values and beliefs and convictions are treated as invalid and his trauma is something he needs to just get over because it’s inconvenient and harmful to everyone else and doesn’t he know that everyone else was also traumatized by his death?

vigilante who kills people • traumatized as hell • has trouble differentiating between good deeds and selfishness • shot his little brother on the spine • tried to kill his other two brothers • operates under the belief that controlling evil is the only way to help innocents • has an immesurable love for the people of Gotham and really wants them to be happy and safe!! • please for the love of god fandom stop talking about him as if the bad things hes done are forgiveable AND as if the good things he's done don't matter

Gonna be honest even canon misinterprets him. There's no winning. All you need to know about DC universe is that multiple different writers have had a go at writing him and every time he is wildly different which is maybe why people interpret him very differently?? Canon interprets him in a he did everything wrong way a lot of times and fanon interprets him in a he did nothing wrong way because he is blorbo to many, when he is very much someone who did a lot of shit wrong but also had a lot going on, while thats still not an excuse for like, a lot of maiming and murder, and (usually) later in the timeline he is less trigger happy and has evened out from villain to morally grey, his whole "redemption" to being morally grey is usually up to fan interpretation whether or not they're chill with letting him keep murdering bad people or they say no murder in general, and whether or not bats is chill with the whole he keeps murdering people thing since he has a staunch no murder stance. Also!! a lot of people in fanon write in the whole pit insanity thing as a way to excuse a lot of the things he did while in his full on villain era, and like,,, i don't think that was canon??? like i straight up think the whole pit madness thing was made up but a lot of DC canon is wibbly wobbly already so its hard to say. hope this wasn't too word salady but i hope you understand that whenever you are consuming any piece of media, canon or fanon, with this man in it you have literally no idea what you are stumbling into you, you are playing fucking spin the wheel, which flavour of Jason Todd are we reading about today. I will say though, canon does objectively treat him like dogshit and only really brings him back every now and then as a punching bag for Batsy whenever they want to have edgy emo abusive dad bruce wayne because comic writers think found family is for chumps and so is being a good parent and actively resist it with every ounce of their soul :/ so I understand why fanon strays so far away, it's just that fanon also can't seem to agree on the degree of morally grey he is?? idk someone save Jason it's the worst custody battle of the century between canon and fanon.

Miguel O'Hara

he is dj internalized homophobia. he is so so sick in the head

#misrepresented morally grey #round 2 #bracket c #both bracket #batman #jason todd #spider man across the spider verse #miguel o'hara

[chamiryokuroi]

Talia: I must confess something- the real reason I came to you was to seduce you so i can ruin your company from the inside.- Janet "Just as insane as Tim but in completely different direction" Drake, twirling her hair already dreaming about kissing the sexy morally gray backstabbing spy lady: Oh? Tell me more~

Talia: Even if my feelings for you have become real I would understand if you wouldn’t want to see me again

Janet already choosing engagement rings in her phone: Oh let’s not be hasty, we can surely talk about it

#janet drake #talia al ghul #janet/talia #if you wonder where did Tim got his hopelessly romantic (stupidly in love) from it was Janet

[thattimdrakeguy]

I am so sorry if you've done this before but can you do a quick crash course and recommended reading list on Tim Drake? I've had a lot of misinformation about his character from Tim stans and I never really thought he had anything unique or interesting that made him stand out from the other Robins. He seemed to be a cookie cutter mold of the bland teen relatable hero. But from the small information I've gathered for myself, he has qualities and characteristics that I really like in a lot of characters in other media. Can you maybe help me and educate me more on him, please?

The best Tim stuff is the early Tim stuff, at least to me, but then again, you did come to me to ask this.

You have to clear your mind of what you think of Tim already, because you'll either have people telling you stuff about him that's false to make you dislike him, or stuff that isn't true that they pulled out of their ass to make you like them.

And start at the beginning, this is the most important thing with Tim. Lonely Place of Dying is his origin story, and that's where you'll understand him the most, it's a fantastic character study of him. It's also where his characterization is at it's strongest because of that.

You'll find out he's introduced as this sheltered, oblivious, naïve, clever--but not super genius little kid. He doesn't even get the Robin gig because of how smart he is, he doesn't even solve a murder mystery in his first story. Instead, and the real reason of how he got the gig was his big heart, and enthusiasm. He's honestly really adorable in his origin story. He is insanely innocent in his origin. It's pretty precious--beyond his PTSD, which, poor baby.

However these are traits that have...been really lowered as the years go on.

Like he was raised in boarding schools, so he's super naïve and oblivious, his first Robin miniseries in fact is about how little he knows about the 'big bad world'. It's essentially him showing off how much he has to know, and how little he understands concepts such as vengeance, revenge, grudges, gray morality, among other things.

Overall though, in my opinion, what made him interesting was his perspective in regards to the Bat-Family in his earlier stories. He's not like the rest of them at all, and that's what made him good. He is NOT naturally talented, he's good enough, but he's not the best at ANYTHING. And he has so much love for the life of Batman and Robin that it means so much for him.

Above all else he is a little kid fan boy, with so much love in his heart. He draws fan art, goes overboard with love about every little thing he sees, he cries when he thinks he failed Batman and Robin. So if anything he cares too much in his early stories.

This little kid will beat himself up so much when he feels like he's letting them down. It's his specific connection to the legacy that really helps him out. Here is solely here because of how much he cares about Batman and Robin. He didn't even originally try to be Robin, he just ended up being that way because Dick wouldn't do it.

And he knows nothing about people in his original story which also helps him a lot. Not like local weirdo fandom Tim. But think of this genuinely good hearted little boy, that just genuinely doesn't know what he's doing.

But after his origin he sort of goes through the tests and the stress really hits up on him hard, and that's where his miniseries and Robin series goes from there.

His parents dies, and it creates this deal where he's convinced he's not a kid anymore, but it's so obvious it is because of how black and white his thinking is, and his naïve way of thinking. But there's more anxiety and worry in him after this.

So then you have this reasonably normal kid in a world of gritty crime, and angsty crime-fighters, all while the most concerning thing in his life is normal kid stuff.

As well as an identity crisis where sometimes his Timmy side comes out, and his Robin side stays. Where sometimes who he really is is around, just for the personality he thinks he must have as Robin comes out.

Which is something a lot of people don't catch on to. He puts on an act as Robin a lot in an effort to be who he thinks he has to be, versus who he really is, because he doesn't think he's good enough as himself to be Robin.

Overall, four things you should read to see if you like him or not is Lonely Place of Dying, New Titans #65 (I think, if not look for the Titans issue where Timmy gets training with Dick), the story where his mom dies (Apologies for not knowing the name), and his first Robin miniseries.

If you don't like him after this, then sadly he may not be for you.

If you do like it go into his other miniseries, and then his solo. But his solo eventually gets sort of crappy--a lot of things people say are good about it aren't great. You'll find out his relationship with Steph is toxic and awful. He's basically sexually harassed until randomly they date. And sometimes the cynical middle aged conservative man who writes Tim at the time comes out, and it's really noticeable given how much it contradicts who Tim is introduced as.

But if you can deal with that, it'll be fun until it clearly stops caring...and his character starts changing. Eventually that cynical middle aged man clearly stops caring, other writers made him more arrogant and unlikable, gave him a super genius trope, and soon enough he's unrecognizable.

Early Tim however, is a magnificent character to me.

So there you go, hopefully this helps.

[radioactive-earthshine]

Hi. I was talking with my best friend and we were going over the rogues of Young Justice and who had which person as their common adversary such as Tim with all of Batman's rogues being his and the point of it was that when they were all adults who would be their own personal nemesis? Batman has The Joker clearly, Superman with Lex Luthor, The Flash and Reverse Flash, Wonder Woman and Cheetah etc but what about the YJ crew especially Bart? Who would be Bart's main nemesis when he's an adult?

Did you forget about Thad Thawne?

Thad Thawne is absolutely Bart's main nemesis NOW in current, no matter how much Thad deserves and SHOULD get a redemption arc (which likely will never happen considering Fastest Man Alive is canon again).

I also really am hesitant to say Tim's rogues are just Batman's rogues because he ran into a lot of other people and themes in his own comics on a fair basis that there are other options available. Also it looks like the one responsible for Young Justice Dark Crisis (Mxyzptlk's son, allegedly) has already decided Tim is his nemesis (see Tim Drake's Pride Special).

***Edit*** Mickey was in fact NOT the person who Tim is currently up against in his comics. When this was written, it was assumed they were going to be the same.

King Shark (yes, he's a Superboy character) with Kay Fury as well as Amanda Spence (allegedly dead) are Kon's in his own comics but having them extend into the future with him as an adult is... iffy. His 2011 solo comic had Simon Valentine (his FRIEND) being setup as his Lex Luthor with a parallel narrative as well but meh, I really liked Simon and I just want these heroes to have fucking civilian friends and have their own rogues not just mirror their assumed mentor's.

Bart however is a little more tricky because in his own comics he rarely had reoccurring villains (Thad) that truly wanted to harm him (Thad), and many of them were more Max's adversaries anyway or were guest rogues.

We do have a few however but I do not foresee them as being a problem for Bart when he is older. But they could be brought back for fun.

For fun let's just explore a few interesting people from Bart's run that were presented as villains, see if they are a candidate for future rogue-ness, then I will tell you my own personal pick for his true nemesis that isn't Thad.

White Lightning

The first 'major adversary' we see is White Lightning who has some mild 'pheromone mind control' that allows her to manipulate men just like Poison Ivy, only she has not shown any murderous intentions.

Impulse #80

She shows up early on in his series, and she shows up every now and then and is predominately a thief who uses adolescent boys to assist her in her heists.

Impulse #4

She would make a GREAT current 'rogue' because she's basically a social media influencer. She uses the internet of 1995 to attract potential 'gang members', and she even has her own merch! This would translate VERY WELL for today for a morally gray rogue.

She's FUN, but she's not really a villain so she's out for being Bart's nemesis. She's more like a Robin Hood character than a true crook (a Robin Hood that KEEPS the money).

Likelihood of being a future rogue: 6/10

lmfao white lightning has her own merch but bart doesn't

Evil Eye Eddie/Wilfred Parker (once called "Danny" by his dad)

His first appearance is in Impulse is in issue #27 and he shows up on the regular up until the near end of the series. He's a very well written character that when he first shows up he is a thug and a bully that wants nothing more than to follow in the footsteps of his father, and grandfather (Dr. Morlo) and be a super villain, and a gang member.

As time progresses with him in the series, we see that he does not actually have the disposition to do what he needs to do in order to be that, but he still retains a shitty attitude which makes him more likable. He also has a friendship with Rolly that from everything we see is genuine and he does care about him. One day I'll make a meta post about Eddie because he's fascinating as fuck.

Impulse #47

Evil Eye also finds out on his own who Bart is later and doesn't tell anyone about it so he's not a good candidate for being a rogue of Bart's later. Dr. Morlo couldn't even keep up with being Max's rogue and they instead have a divorced spouse relationship. It would be fun to have him back though. I want him to meet Stephanie Brown.

Likelihood of being a future rogue: 1/10

Pocket Pal

A better contender is Pocket Pal who was penned for issue #60 by the legendary Dwayne McDuffie (yes, Milestone's McDuffie. RIP).

His particular abilities were similar to Chester Runk's aka The Chunk in that he had a pocket dimension in which he could put an infinite number of things into. He was slick, angry, and a young thief who could definitely grow up into a regular rogue for Bart to deal with later.

Impulse #60

I could absolutely see him coming back as an adult rogue for Bart to deal with on occasion. There's a lot of writing potential for a character that has a bag of infinite carrying.

Name's gotta change though. I like Supermassive (as in black hole) but I do not write for DC and I likely never will so Pocket Pal it is.

Likelihood of being a future rogue: 8/10

Honorable Mention: Shanela

Shanela first shows up in Issue #82 and she and her twin sister Shantay both have the ability to manifest illusions. Shanela is just an A N G R Y teen, and her sister Shantay is seen as the one who is constantly trying to keep her in check.

Impulse #83

Shanela has a great narrative and she deals with a lot of internal teenage negativity and low self esteem. She does not really use her power to physically hurt anyone but she definitely has enough anger and hatred towards her peers to get to that point and probably would have had Bart not intervened. Her weakness it turned out was dogs as she is petrified of them.

She was a fascinating 'villain' and it would be fun to see her and her sister again; whether working together as some sort of hero team, working against each other, or simply being civilian metas.

Likelihood of being a future rogue: 5/10 (it's circumstantial)

And now... The person I feel personally strong about being Bart's rogue (other than Thad)...

Bedlam/Matthew Stuart

There's something about a Speedster having an adversary that has infinite power and ability through use of magic that just offers infinite potential when it comes to possible stories. It's terrifying and exciting. When it comes to this particular character however we have established history AND motivation and this character has already mentioned that he HATES Bart (and his friends) and will absolutely given the opportunity wreck his life just out of spite.

Good god don't let him team up with Thad.

Impulse #85

For context here we first meet Matthew in the story that started Young Justice. JLA: World Without Grownups and he is supposed to be a brat even before he comes into his powers.

Now, you can make the argument here that he is justifiably irritated that his father almost did not make it back in time for his 13th birthday, and that his family dynamic is not the best here, and there is probably some toxic dynamic but he's also a moody teen with some anger at the world that helps him along the path of being Bedlam. You can read this scene as him being a brat, or you can read it as him just being a normal kid dealing with loneliness and acting out. Either way, things go bad quick.

He comes into his powers by accident from that clearly stolen archeological artifact his father dug up, someone get Arthur because the Atlantean artifact contains the magical power of Garn Daanuth.

He becomes possessed by this entity Bedlam and immediately changes reality to mirror something he finds fitting; one without grownups where children rule.

Eventually he is apprehended by Tim, Kon and Bart and it is Bart who is key to finally beating him.

Matt remembers Bart very fervently when he shows back up 2 years later without the entity, but with all of his powers roiling through him (TLDR the actual entity was able to be born as a mortal human being and he ditched his magical powers and they went back to Matt).

Impulse #85

Matt to me would be top tier level for an original adversary for Bart specifically considering he targeted Bart (and other members of Young Justice but not the the same extreme as Bart).

He has history, motivation, and a kick ass power that would be nothing short than mayhem any time he showed up.

Now YES he did technically lose all his powers (Bart again, foiled him) and they jumped into Bart's body, but there is no real reason to not have Matt regain the abilities in some way. These are comics, after all.

I feel that in a hypothetical scenario where Bart had to have primary rogue that was not Thad it would be Matt Stuart 100%.

So these are just my own thoughts and Bart certainly dealt with a lot more than just those I have listed but this was still fun to explore and I hope this got you thinking into the subject of hypotheticals and maybe it inspired some fan works.

Thank you for the probing question!

#bart allen #impulse #pocket pal #shanela #shantay #white lighting #evil eye eddie #wilfred parker #thad thawne #matthew stuart #bedlam

[adalineozie]

I know this is may be an unpopular opinion on this site, I usually don't do these kind of posts and I'm worried the wrong people will twist my words, this is about Tim but it can be applied to fandom in general. As a Damian, Steph, and Tim fan, it sucks that there are anti Tim that are Damian/Steph fans who often go you don't really like this character if you like the other (I know there are anti Damian Tim fans who do this as well). And it becomes a problem when antis accuse fans of having intentions for liking him like you're sexist for liking Tim over Steph or racist for liking Tim over Damian.

In general, this weird obsession with liking what is only considered morally correct and nit picking every moral wrong of a character they don't like in order to defend their hate for the character and than proceding to accuse fans of condoning or reflecting these wrongs when most fans like them for their rights. This can often lead to this black and white thinking users on this site claim to be against and leaves no room for gray, going back to the toxic tendency of comic fans to gatekeep and have a "correct" way of enjoying comics. Because if we were to go that route, then wouldn't liking comic characters and comics make you bad person anyway. Comics have had problematic content in the past and they still have now.

Liking a character does not automatically reflect the person's morals and values. A good example I've seen would be, liking Rorschach from Watchmen and agreeing and condoning Rorschach are two different things. They can overlap yes but most often, please belive most people are ethical. The internet amplifys the voice of loud few, not the majority.

I recognize that the writing surrounding Tim Drake can be interpreted by some for having problematic elements in the way preference by DC he gets but it should be noted the bulk of it comes from later writers who worked on him decades after his debut. It’s not Tim’s nor the fans’ faults those problematic elements are even a factor at all.

You can hate a character and their flaws, but recognize the hate as your own and the flaws as the fault of writer's and editor's decision.

#rant #ramble #tim drake #fandom toxicity

[qcomicsy]

You know what? Fuck Batman and DC writers trying to gaslight me that what Jason does is wrong and dishonest and yara yara yara.

It's so fucking boring at this point.

And just blatantly wrong.

First of all, you cannot just say "oh but thats just bad you're a bad person >:c" at THIS POINT in comics. Because after pushing gray area morals and realism that y'all (writers) braggg SOO MUCH about it. Just going "murder bad >:c you bad >>>:ccc IT'S FUCKING STUPID."

For example. By the comics, (depending in what you believe) Tim Drake is a cheater. Is that what a good person does? In a black and white view. No, it is not therefore Tim is bad. Bruce is a fucking hypocrite who protect and revive a literal mass murder and doesn't hold up the same energy for his own children (HE RAISED) . Nightwing committed murder. Gordon constantly makes exceptions violating the law and his duties as a cop for random non affiliated vigilantes. Harley is irredeemable, because not only she kills and has killed before but also does it for fun. Talia, Damian, hell, even Cass are all murders in certain degrees. Even CATWOMAN wouldn't be saved . That being said. Does the comics considers them a horrible bad villainous people? >:((.

No, because they're fucking human beings and human beings fuck things up. Specially considering multiple circumstances they've been through: social, mental, developing, physical, environmental. It's realistic.

Yeah, so why when it comes for Jason. It's all fucking black and white.

But this is not a Jason apologist post, so if you hoping this take will be "Jason did nothing wrong" you going to be disappointed. Hold up a little because I'm gonna get to the point.

Listen here. I'm all for reparatory justice, honestly most of the time no matter how much it despises me, I do agree with Batman. But unlike him, I and maany people of the fandom, we just have- you know, common sense???

The problem with Batman, Nightwing (well hell why not) and Jason is that those three idiots lack of common sense. Their sense of justice seems like it comes from 14 year old boys. They're all are so trapped in their own traumas and struggles that they NEVER. EVER. Try to look outside their asses and view the villain-gotham-situation from a far away point of view.

Again I blame the writers. Because when they have good writing the generally do have braincells to analyze that.

You >>CANNOT<<. Hold the same energy you have with a mugger and with the fucking Joker. It doesn't make sense. It's just damn right stupid. It's cannon (and even true outside of comics) that the majority of people who turn to crime, are people who had nothing to begin with. Most of them are working class. Most of them are already born in the goddammit CRIME ALLEY. Most of them start before even turning into adults.

It's stated multiple times. That Gotham is a hard city to survive, it is filled with crime. Jason's first contact with crime and drugs and dealers was when he was younger than 10 years old. It's not just stupid, but also dishonest to pretend he was the only one, and all those muggers and henchmen are just terrible people that are there by choice because they're evil and need to be punished and killed. >:C

Some might be, but how the fuck would you know??

Because tale as old as time, if the system is as fucked as a gas leaking, shooting your way out of there isn't going to solve shit. You shoot this mugger today and next day it's going to be another one. There's a fucking reason why countries with high education and opportunities have less crime. There's a reason why gotham is corrupted and cursed. You cannot save everyone. Some people doesn't even want to be saved.

But shooting them is definitely doing more harm them good. Because they were just a mugger but their children might become a killer in ten years because you wanted to play god.

And at the same time. We cannot pretend that a man who went to prison million times. Who has been treated with 181838 who knows how many psychologists, therapists, psychiatrist. Who shows no remorse is as redeemable as someone who is taking cellphones and purses on street for money. Specially a man who tells you over and over again that they will kill, abuse, torture anyone (even people as close to you as possible) and everyone no matter how many times you arrest him and send him away. We cannot act like everybody is made of steal and it's not going to fucking snap at a person like that.

Let's not pretend a single man with flesh and bone have the right to decide what a serial killer fate should be just because he and the killer have a connection 🥺 And he can save him 🥺. And he have a code 😩. And what if he cannot hold himself anymore after 😳😳. Batman should have no authority on how people (people who were directly affected FOR LIFE by Joker) should react/respond to him, but YET DC keep trying to convince us he does.

Its pathetic.

Not killing is a thing. Constantly saving a murder is another.

And I go back to the central point because how Batman, Nightwing and Redhood react to different criminals it's honestly fully dependent on the writer and no one else. And oh boy, how many different interpretations we had over the years huh.

The point is. Both. BOTH. Of their point of view is flawed. You cannot hold your WHOLE belief system in a moral code with less than 10 words. I mean you can, but it won't last. Every situation is a situation. Every person is a person. There isn't no all right and all wrong all done recipe to deal with every fucking criminal existent. And the whole fact that two stubborn man hold into that belief systems with their damn life anyway is the most realistic thing of this setting.

"Jason is a murder and murder is wrong". Therefore "Jason is always wrong and Batman have the right to punish him >:c" Is one of the stupidest takes I've seen a comic book make in a while and I still don't know how they keep getting away with it.

Specially in how his punishments and mistreating coming from his own family are portrayed in the comics.

I don't give a fuck about what Batman think, and I'm goddam tired of Jason's whole arc is reapeating this whole dynamic over and over again.

You want to criticize Redhoods methods??? Then stop being a pussy and do it right addressing the real fucking problems about it.

Address how the people he killed before had a family and how they had to cope with their loss. How the fuck they survived and what they had to do to sustain themselves. Address how a single man cannot logistically always be certain of his informations and background checks, because not even an entire fucking justice system MADE FOR THAT can, and one day sooner or later Jason is going to be wrong. Address how when he plays double agent it doesn't undo the jobs he done for literally mob bosses. And how it doesn't matter he despites and hates himself and how self aware he is he still playing a part in this system as well as Batman does. As Bruce milionaire Wayne does.

And how at some point of his life he will have to confront the fact that. Yeah it was fucked. Yeah it was horrible he didn't deserve that. Fuck yeah Batman sucks. Nightwing sucks. They're all hypocrites. Fuck Joker. He didn't chose to be here. All of that.

But still, in real life, in this present moment. It is Jason fucking Todd who is chosing to do exactly what he's does.

Not Batman. Not Nightwing. Not Joker. Not pretender. Not his mom. Not his biologic father. Not his trauma. Him.

And no "Holly shit you become everything you hate because of the circumstances" and poetic irony regarding his biological dad is going to erase that.

Any day by now, eventually, it should be the consequences of his actions that would bite him in the ass. Not Batman.

Until then it doesn't matter what edgy angst violent discourse and or comic run regarding moral code and what the fuck Batman or the Batfam thinks of Jason's way of living and how does that affect him. I will not give a single fuck about it.

As I said before you have million reasons to criticize Jason life style but don't try to make me care bringing constantly the most stupid and lazy-writing one.

#my city #If at least it went somewhere it could but EVERYBODY even in the comic universe knows it doesn't #so why bother?? #I like Jason but I'll not sit here and pretend he is the most sane and right family member of the batfam just because he has the common #sense to want to end the joker #mf has issues #and at somepoint we SHOULD separate them from batman #because batman can act like he own thst goddamn city but he should NOT be the ultimate authority to everysingle thing and I stand by that #says the man who hasn't walk around there without a limo or a armour in almost thirty years #they're flawed that's the whole beauty of their situation #and dynamic #there's no absolutely right or absolutely wrong in their situation just people trying to cope #jason todd #redhood #bruce wayne #batman #q rants

[scintillyyy]

okay just some more thoughts on my terrible reverse robins idea

i have decided that as hilarious as azbats would be with damian as nightwing, i much prefer prodigal/resurrection shenanigans with reversed dick and tim because those two stories are so special to me and need dick and tim to be the starring actors (bruce is in shady oaks retirement village while this all goes down with damian's back being broken, so he can't take the cowl back during this mess)

which leads us to, well, then, how do damian and tim get closer here, because in all universes, tim will always be able to annoy his way into the love of a grouchy older brother figure

to which i say: contagion and legacy!! damian having a slighty larger role due to the league being involved here

up until then, he had just been vaguely annoyed by drake, even if he was impressed enough by him that he okayed the transfer of the robin mantle to him.

it's the questions. all the questions. so many questions. how can one kid have so many questions.

and then an illness breaks out, a bad one, and batman sends nightwing and robin to go do some crowd control

and the new robin is being as exasperating as ever with his questions upon questions when suddenly he collapses, blood running down from his eye

damian is horrified to see tim is infected. somehow along the way, he just got used to the kid, is all.

he's not so annoying as damian likes to pretend. he suddenly can't bear the thought of never hearing another silly question again. he races tim back to the cave. he will never admit how worried he is.

leading into legacy. he's horrified at the idea the clench could come back and kill tim. he snaps at bruce that tim will be coming with him to paris to look for the league.

tim of course is wide-eyed excited to work with nightwing to which damian snaps at him to not get too excited, this is only because tim needs proper training on how to fight league assassins, really, drake, your form was absolutely sloppy and unacceptable, robin needs to be better than that

damian will categorically deny that he holds his breath every time drake so much as coughs to clear his throat. he is not hovering the whole time they're travelling together.

tim looks smug for the 3 weeks after this

unrelated, damian as nightwing and whoever is huntress???

unlike dick, who should never, ever be with huntress ever, does the gray morality of huntress mesh pretty well with this kind of nightwing???

does huntress become bruce's in-law??? how does he feel about this turn of events???

i do feel a little bad for steph getting the short end of the stick here. maybe after she burns herself out on her anger finally and decides she's tired of being the black mask, she gets picked up by two of damian's friends for a redemption arc or something calling themselves the outlaws

not written by lobdell tho

#lmao tell me to stop and i will i'm just highly amused over here #this does feel like a semi-cursed timeline to me but i love that tim is basically the same

[cr1mson5returns]

Sort of obsessing over the concept of Tim, having been acknowledged canonically as a talented photographer, using these skills for morally gray reasons. This kid doesn't intend to use his fists to win every battle, or even most battles, actually. He's well-connected, fits into unconventional hiding spaces due to being lean and slender and 5'6", and he has a very nice camera. So really, Senator, it's a shame you thought you'd get away with so much. Think of what the Times could do with this evidence. High-definition doesn't lie. So you'll vote to expand funding for public education and Medicaid in the state, is that correct? Of course, you're an upstanding politician, after all. Couldn't have all this getting in the way of your career.

#tim strikes me as the type who doesn't see himself as being on the same moral high ground as batman or superman or anyone else #and probably never really had that illusion to begin with #he didn't have like a moral attachment to the batfamily crusade #he did it to save his childhood hero because batman the symbol and the person mattered more than standing by and trusting anyone else #no one else was gonna pick up this mess so tim had to do it #tim has no qualms about burning bridges either #if you aren't useful to him or vice versa it's over #this was business and he's devoted to his own cause #which is assuring that batman is functional enough to mean something to people #who cares what happens to tim drake?? he's inconsequential #tim drake #red robin #batfamily #cr1mson's thoughts #morally gray tim drake has my heart

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

If Murder was a Meet Cute

by GlasgowSmileandGreyEyes

Danny “Phantom” Fenton is the definition of trouble. It follows him and on the days that it doesn’t he is somehow running after it. When Danny, for the need of survival, leaves Amity Park for Gotham University’s Astrophysics and Engineering programs, he only hopes that he can find a little bit of happiness. He takes up residence in Crime Alley and, for a whole year, he lives a relatively peaceful life. One night, at an ungodly hour of the morning, Danny is taking a stroll for some instant ramen, when someone attacks him from an alley. Obviously he defends himself, and, in the process, he kills none other than the Prince of Crime himself: The Joker.

He is in the middle of trying to figure out what to do when Red Hood catches him red-handed and promptly… lets him go???

Now, Danny keeps running into Red Hood while he commits unplanned crimes, and he isn’t quite sure what to make of it.

OR

The five times Red Hood aka Jason Todd caught Danny Fenton committing a crime, and the one time the criminal wasn’t Danny.

Words: 1586, Chapters: 1/6, Language: English

Fandoms: Danny Phantom, Batman - All Media Types, DCU

Rating: Mature

Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence

Categories: Gen, M/M

Characters: Danny Fenton, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Dick Grayson, Damian Wayne, Tucker Foley, Jazz Fenton, Maddie Fenton, Jack Fenton, Bruce Wayne, Clockwork (Danny Phantom), Fright Knight (Danny Phantom)

Relationships: Danny Fenton/Jason Todd

Additional Tags: Danny Fenton Needs A Hug, Danny Fenton Has PTSD, Danny Fenton has ADHD, Jason Todd Needs A Hug, Jason Todd Deserves Happiness, Good Sibling Jason Todd, Good Older Sibling Dick Grayson, Damian Wayne is Robin, Damian Wayne is a Little Shit, Bruce Wayne Tries to Be a Good Parent, Bad Parents Jack and Maddie Fenton, Guys in White Organization (Danny Phantom), Guys in White Capture Danny Fenton, Ghost King Danny Fenton, Danny Fenton-centric, danny always drops really awful lines about his childhood and everyone is worried, Halfa | Half-Ghosts (Danny Phantom), Jason Todd deserves his book romance, Morally Gray Danny Fenton, Author has not read or played batman comics or games, Not Phantom Planet Compliant (Danny Phantom), DC means Disregard Canon, Not Canon Compliant, Other Additional Tags to Be Added, 5+1 Things, A bit of a crackfic, Who needs canon when you have caffeine and WILL, All it takes is pretty eyes and a chaotic neutral personality, for jason todd to fall in love

source https://archiveofourown.org/works/47837932

#IFTTT #bruce wayne #batman #the dark knight #the cape crusader #gotham #dc universe #ao3 #ao3feed

[lewdcanons]

lewdcanons is a secondary blog of @sparsilelove and @aeipathiclove -- all guidelines of my main blog apply here too! this page is for all my (likely canon divergent) adult plots involving canon characters. while i'm usually picky about canons and their portrayal, everything here is a little more chill and entirely #toohornyformain. characters under the cut 🥴

a note on gender: * indicates a genderswapped character. all muses can be played as cis or trans, but please don't use feminisation kink with trans guys in threads with me. i'm trans myself and it makes me super dysphoric, thanks!

for all of the fandoms mentioned, i'll most likely play anyone from that fandom -- just send me a message on main and we'll figure it out.

comics - dc:

bruce wayne (henry cavill or ben affleck)

conner kent (joshua orpin)

damian wayne (anthony keyvan)

dick grayson (brenton thwaites)

garfield logan (ryan potter)

jason todd (curran walters, noah centineo or matthew daddario)

jon kent (michael cimino)

timothy drake (tyler lawrence gray or jay lycurgo)

comics - marvel:

clint barton (alexander ludwig, sam claflin or boyd holbrook)

frank castle (jon bernthal)

kane bishop* (ryan potter or tanner buchanan)

matt murdock (charlie cox or cameron monaghan)

miles morales (jharrel jerome)

peter parker (nick robinson or tom holland)

steve rogers (chris evans)

movies - scream:

billy loomis (felix mallard or skeet ulrich)

chad meeks-martin (mason gooding)

ethan landry (jack champion)

quinn bailey* (cameron monaghan)

richie kirsch (jack quaid)

troy carpenter* (michael cimino)

movies - misc:

duncan idaho (jason mamoa)

indiana jones (john krasinski or chris pratt)

james bond (thomas doherty or henry cavill)

leto atreides (oscar isaac)

nick gant (finn cole)

paul atreides (timothee chalamet)

raleigh becket (charlie hunnam)

sebastian valmont (aron piper)

tyler durden (charlie hunnam) and the narrator (robert pattinson)

tv - fate: the winx saga:

dane (theo graham)

riven (freddie thorp)

sam (jacob dudman)

saul silva (rob james-collier)

sky (danny griffin)

tv - misc:

bobo del rey (michael eklund)

doc holliday (tim rozon)

geralt of rivia (henry cavill)

joel miller (pedro pascal)

nick scratch (gavin leatherwood)

tv - riverdale:

archie andrews (kj apa)

barney cooper* (hunter doohan or froy gutierrez)

fp jones (skeet ulrich)

jughead jones (cole sprouse)

vernon lodge* (rafael silva)

tv - shadowhunters:

bat velasquez (rafael silva)

clarence fairchild* (kj apa)

jace herondale (finn cole or dominic sherwood)

simon lewis (asa butterfield or alberto rosende)

tv - teen wolf:

alexander argent* (thomas doherty or manu rios)

chris argent (john krasinski or milo ventimiglia)

derek hale (richard madden, michael trevino or tyler hoechlin)

isaac lahey (archie renaux or paul mescal)

liam dunbar (jordan elsass, rudy pankow or dylan sprayberry)

noah stilinski (ben affleck or timothy olyphant)

peter hale (jensen ackles or sebastian stan)

stiles stilinski (nico hiraga or dylan o'brien)

theo raeken (jacob elordi, gavin leatherwood or cody christian)

[christelightlavo]

If dick grayson is the little shit robin. Who is the angelic one?

Tim drake.

Jason had too much bad background to act all nicey towards people. Damian is an assasin.

Tim is the one with proper background and the best moral code. He was the only one that never actually intented to stay robin forever.

Robin!Jason is a mixture of both little shit and angelic.

Damian lives up to the tittle "demon brat" but he is more of a silent demon. If you think about it.

As they grew up they developed.

Dick turned from little shit robin to angelic nightwing

Jason turned from the gray robin to pure chaotic red hood.

Tim turned from angelic robin to the gray red robin.

Damian went from demon brat to demon baby.

#dc comics #batman and robin

[thesubtextis]

Chapter Fifteen is Up!

Conquered by Love (93641 words) by TheSubtextIs Chapters: 15/? Fandom: Batman - All Media Types Rating: Explicit Warnings: Rape/Non-Con Relationships: Dick Grayson/Slade Wilson Characters: Dick Grayson, Slade Wilson, Jason Todd, Damian Wayne, Tim Drake Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Medieval, Prince Dick Grayson, Slade Wilson Being an Asshole, Forced Marriage, Prisoner of War, Dick Grayson Needs a Hug, Dick Grayson Has Issues, Hurt/Comfort, Eventual Happy Ending, Painful Sex, Communication Failure, Consent Issues, Sexual Slavery, Alternate Universe - Royalty, no beta we die like robin, Enemies to Lovers, Enemy to Caretaker, Domestic Violence, Public Claiming, Public Sex, slade wilson is soft for dick grayson, Morally Gray Slade Wilson, Dark, Dick Grayson Whump, Not super violent, but pretty psychologically rough at points Summary: King Bruce is missing, and the kingdom of Gotham has fallen to Defiance's budding empire. Crown Prince Richard has personally dueled the invading king and lost. Now, the Wayne Princes face execution, enslavement, or worse, unless they can escape or make a bargain with King Wilson. Luckily for all of them, King Wilson and Prince Richard have a long history that leaves Wilson reluctant to kill him. Unfortunately, there's a wide range of fates between being happy and being dead, and King Wilson isn't known for being merciful.

#Not me #shamelessly self promoting #because i finally posted another chapter