#mindflayer apologist

[slushrottweiler]

Your knight in shining armour

#baldur’s gate 3 #bg3 fanart #bg3 guardian #bg3 spoilers #bg3 emperor #am I hot for my guardian — yes! #he keeps saving me I can’t help it #plus his voice is *swoon* #mindflayer apologist #Seriously I gave up on this one. I tried so hard to colour him but I can’t look at him anymore. I’m done take him. #slushie draws

[henrysglock]

And when I say that Willel's twin imagery/role-swapping comes from their respective narrative relationships to Henry and Edward as timeline shadows of each other and not from a biological link between Will and El?

When I say that Will and El exist as shadows of each other, but by circumstance instead of the Talisman-esque twinner status that Henry and Edward share?

When I say Edward and El/Henry and Will are just "...wretched mirrors of each other: I am all you could have been, and you are all I might be" played out on screen?

When I say Henry could have been like Will, and Edward like El: different, but good?

When I tell you it was never an innate difference, but a product of circumstances and the choices made as a result of those circumstances?

When I tell you it's just one big story about children being put in situations they should never have to be in in the first place? One man's abuse of power bleeding into future generations until it tears a whole community apart?

What then 🤨

#me @ brenner: you ruined perfectly good boys! look at them. they're killing people. #i don't want to see any venca/mindflayer apologists in my notes tho #this doesn't excuse shit and i've never been one to excuse the choices made by the big bads #but it is all very much Brenner's fault #he's very much the root of all of it. #henry/edward creel #willel thoughts

[bigmfrat]

listen, not to be a Mindflayer apologist on main but one of the points for the emperor being evil is always "hes making you his thrall" but like, if he was, you sure do have a lot of free will for a thrall, and also - oh no, I get a 7ft tall squid sugar daddy who takes care of me and all I gotta do is sit there and look pretty, oh gosh, what a tragedy. Oh, and it actually enjoys me and doesn't have sexual desires? well as an ace bitch don't fucking mind if I do. "he would never see you as an equal!" I am an autistic afab in a family of narcissistic men, I wasn't treated as an equal until I was like 23 and got other autistic friends. NGL but I don't think that I'm on the same playing field as a giant squid monster with psychic powers so thats understandable. Like yea he holds back a lot of info, but as a bitch who has also needed to do whatever it took to SURVIVE i don't blame them!! The fate of literally Everything is in your hands but you need to work with people who think you're the most wretched and vile creature in the universe, I would be a little bit manipulative and secretive too. Also he gives you the option to be his equal, and continue to be with him after the game! There's 100% an option for him to genuinely like you, but being a mindflayer whos exhausted by constantly shielding a group of humans 24/7 from a fucking elderbrain in a world-ending mindflayer apocalypse kinda makes bonding a bit more difficult than it does with your other groupies who are all on a personal quest for therapy through blood. Oh BuT i PiCkEd ThE EvIl OpTiOn aNd HeS MeAn!! Yea, I've also hated my coworkers when they called me a bitch.

#baldurs gate 3 #illithid #mind flayer #the emperor #my mans is doing its best as a neutral entity #youre just making it way harder than it needs to be #Im also a neutral human being though so who tf knows #Maybe I'm just biased in that regard

[aemiron-main]

Btw Henry is absolutely an abuser. 100%. Especially regarding Will and El. His whole thing is that he repeats the cycle of abuse.

“Henry isn’t abusing anyone” begging you for some critical thinking because holy fuck. I have sympathy for Henry as a child and am firm that he wasn’t born evil but I also recognize that he’s now done horrible things and IS an abuser.

Like FR I see dogshit henry takes on one side of the henry take spectrum (the idea that he was born inherently evil as a child) and then also see them on the other side of the spectrum (people being apologists for him and claiming he wasn’t an abuser) and it makes me insane LMAO.

Henry Creel is an abuser. Cope. Seethe. This is fact. He’s also the mindflayer. He’s not some innocent guy being influenced by a shadow monster and he IS an abuser. Funny as fuck that some Henry apologists can’t even be fucked to understand the most basic concepts of his character <3 because he DOES repeat the cycle of abuse.

#stranger things #byler #henry creel analysis #Henry creel

[wheelercore]

What's your opinion on Henry and Vecna now?

Well my opinion really has always been the same, since before tfs (i was 1 of 5 henry apologists in the fandom before henry theories really blew up on the by/ler-sphere sksbsisussi helloooo besties if u see this u know who u are :33333).

Henrys pov in the show never added up to me and there was always talk about how a 12 year old could even concieve of such horrible things, esp when a huge part of the show is about how children are not born evil. Now that its confirmed that henry was actually 15 and much more sympathetic, it puts into question the validity of henry's retelling (and how he villainizes himself, interestingly enough) plus what exactly is the reason behind the inconsistencies. Which i have already thought about in a rosegate lense but i will not talk about that rn :3 but i am Looking.

Tbh ive always been someone who never understood the "well this character CHOSE to be this way" takes when talking about children/teenagers who were abused or treated badly from a young age. Because really to me, its a portrayal of a tragedy rather than choice. Im not trying to excuse their behavior of course, but the portraying it simply as a choice to be a bad person puts the blame solely on the abused person in question and imo takes away from the real meaningful theme that (joker voice) society, and the people who were meant to support them, to some level has failed them. Operative word being solely, as I'm not saying that people cant be held responsible for their own actions. I'm talking more so in an analysis lense of the themes of the show.

We see this repeatedly shown in the show: concerning behaviors popping up when caretakers (namely parents) fail to unconditionally love their children, so their children develop negative coping behaviors and attitudes to deal with their situations and how those behaviors perpetuate over generations. But really thats not even the case with Henry, as even with Virginia's behavior (tfs) Henry still seemed like a decent kid. Maybe attached to Patty because of his mommy issues but its not a Billy type situation.

Henry is the very definition of never having a chance. From what ive heard of tfs i think he really tried to be good and was good. He was just a normal kid, really. But your own mother betrays you and your stuck in some psychopaths lab basement for 30 years, never actually ever getting to escape and rejoin society before getting blasted into the UD, so there was never really much hope there in his situation. Its also super vague how much control henry really has over his own actions regardless, considering now we know that Henry is not nearly as autonomous as we were lead to believe in the show.

I never really believed honestly that Henry was the big bad of st. You could either be a Mindflayer theory believer or a henward enthusiast (i do like me a mix of both), either way both imply that vecna and henry are not necessarily 1:1.

I'm quite interested in how they take henry in s5, because eventually the party will have to learn that Henry is not what he seemed, then we can get down to the actual truth of the matter.

#henry creel

[hostica-a]

𝓥𝖊𝖈𝖓𝖆 ; Stranger things VR.

About  80%  of  my  brainrot  thoughts  lately  are  about  bnha/mha,  which  is  why  Dabi  is  the  only  muse/blog  I've  been  active  on  lately,  however,  the  other  20%  of  my  thoughts  have  def  been  about  Henry,  especially  with  the  VR  game  trailer  and  ofc,  The  First  Shadow,  which  is  bound  to  send  me  insane  again.  But  like,  what  I  wanted  to  mention  was,  I've  extensively  studied  what  little  we  have  in  the  VR  game  trailers  and  I  have  thoughts  about  it  I've  been  meaning  to  share.  I  kinda  mentioned  this  on  discord  a  while  ago  but  fuck  it  I'm  gonna  make  a  post  about  it  because  thats  the  autism  way  for  me. 

So  like  I  think,  theres  sort  of  an  idea  being  pushed  with  the  VR  game  that  Henry/Vecna  really  is  the  one  who  controls  all  of  the  upside  down  and  the  creatures  there  are  pretty  much  mindless  without  him  and  theres  not  another  force  at  play  and  you  already  know  at  length  why  I  Do  Not  Vibe  with  that.  And  no  it  has  nothing  to  do  with being a  "Vecna  apologist"  w/e  the  hell  the  fandom  keeps  banging  on  about.  Like  if  you  don't  think  I  can't  write  and  stan  evil  bastard  who  is  an  evil  bastard  just  for  the  sheer  thrill  of  being  an  evil  bastard  you're  not  paying  attention and you don't know me.  

But  like,  for  me,  with  Henry,  it's  entirely  because  I'm  a  huuuge  Cosmic  and  Religious  horror  fan  and  I  feel  like  this  wouldn't  be  in  line  with  the  other  heavy  suggestions  from  canon  in  season  4,  and  the  fact  that  Cosmic  and  Religious  horror  is  something  the  Duffers  seem  to  be  playing  heavily  into  everywhere  else,  INCLUDING  in  The  First  Shadow.  I mean, fr, look at the last trailer for The  First  Shadow  and  tell  me  no. Its  so  explicit  at  this  point  there  isn't  a  need  for  20 k  word  meta/hcs/theories  from  me  to  point  it  out  anymore.

SO  while  its  always  been  a  possibility  that  the Vecna/Upside down/Mindflayer  thing  has  always  just  been  as  simple  as  "Evil  guy  takes  over  alien  lifeforms  and  uses  them  to  do  his  evil  bidding"  I'm  going  to  hold  on  to  the  idea  that  there  is  a  lot  more  to  it  than  that !  Because  something  else  regarding  the  VR  game  is,  even  though  its  promoted  as  Vecna's  POV,  I  think  there  is  other  POVs  being  shown  in  the  game  as  well.  I  think,  or  maybe  I'm  just  being  delusional  and  holding  on  to  my  own  personal  take  of  things,  maybe,  but  I  feel  like  "Vecna's"  POV  is  more  an  "Umbrella"  for  the  entire  UD.  

In  the  sense  that  I  wouldn't  say  his  POV  is  going  to  be  or  is  the  only  one  being  shown  in  the  game.  I  feel  like  we're  def  gonna  get  POVs  from  Eleven,  maybe  some  of  the  other  characters  and  even,  possibly,  the  monsters  of  the  UD,  but  I  think  like,  Eleven  and  her  friends  aren't  going  to  be  the  ones  we're  controlling.  Its  gonna  be  largely  Vecna  and  the  UD  residents  we're  playing  through  the  eyes  of. 

And  like,  maybe  Vecna  is  the  only  "humanly  intelligent"  thing  in  the  UD,  I  play  to  that  idea  myself,  particularly  in  the  sense  that  yeah  vecna's  "humanly  intelligent"  but  there  are  other  forms  of  intelligence  and  what  I  like  to  portray  from  the  ud  is  that  while  nothing  else  in  there  is  "human"  and  most  of  it  is  "animalistic",  like  the  demogorgons,  specifically  the  mindflayer  entity  and  the  "hivemind"  is  something  else.  Like  you're  never  supposed  to  interpret  those  things  as  'human'  or  animal  if  you  get  what  i  mean  ?  but  i'd  probably  need  a  whole  other  post  to  talk  about  that  specifically  and  i  don't  know  if  everyone  gets  what  i'm  going  for  because  like  cosmic  horror  isn't  for  everyone  and  its  not  like  i  haven't  wrote  huge  posts  about  that  stuff  before  anyway.

But  anyway, obviously  when I  think  about  it  like  that  it  makes  the  game  a  lot  more  exiting  for  me.  Also  there  seems  to  be  an  idea  there  that  Vecna  can  fly ?  I'm  not  sure  whether  we're  suppose  to  take  those  snippets  of  scenes  as  his  POV  or  as  the  POV  of  something  else  ( coughmindflayercough )  which  is  why  I'm  thinking  like ... I  don't  think  Vecnas  POV  is  the  only  one  we're  gonna  play  from,  its  just  sort  of  an  Umbrella  term  for  the  POV  of  everything  else  in  the  UD  if  that  makes  sense ? But we'll see.

Which  isnt  to  say  I  don't  think  the  idea  of  Vecna  possibly  being  able  to  "fly"  or  anything  isn't  funny  as  hell.  Imagine  in  season  5  they  think  they've  got  him  cornered  or something and  the man  just  floats  away  majestically,  thats  killing  me,  love  that  for  him. 

Like  we  have  sort  of  seen  Vecna  at  least  do  something  that  might  be  considered  "levitation"  so  idk,  I  don't  think  its  extremely  far  out  or  anything ━  I  also  love  the  idea  because  we  have  that  line  of  Mike  telling  El  she's  his  Super  Hero  and  she  can  fly  and  move mountains to him  and  like,  ok,  thats  cute,  but  what  are  they  gonna  do  if/when  Vecna  actually  physically  CAN  do  those  things ?  That  suits all  my  X  men /  Magneto  /  Brightburn  referencing  here  with  him  very  deliciously  ━  But  yeah,  I'm  just  having  a  lot  of  thoughts  about  it !!  

And  like,  I  also  wanna  say  like,  I  may  be  entirely  wrong  about  everything I've ever theorized,  but  if  that  turns  out  to  be  the  case  I  kind  of  have  no  intention  of  changing  any  of  my  canon and the way I write things here.  Tbh,  with this blog I  decided  to  just  have  fun  and  write  my  own  crazy  stuff using my own personal favorite horror flavors  which  is  95%  what  this  blog  is,  so  while  I  don't  think   I'm  completely  off  on  things  in  canon,  I  also  don't  fully  expect  all  the  insane  horror  fan  stuff  I've  pulled  out  of  my  ass  here  to  be  exactly  canon  either,  so  like  its  whatever ! 

Maybe  I'll  have  a  separate  verse  for  ""canon""  things  if  stuff  I've  wrote  / theorized  is  proven  to  be  DRASTICALLY  divergent  but  ultimately  my  own  insanity  is  always  gonna  be  the  main/default  for  my  take  on  Vecna/Henry/The UD. 

#⊰ ° ‧: ｡* ⚘ 🥀 ━◞ Out Of Character ⊱ #⊰ ° ‧: ｡* ⚘ 🥀 ━◞ 𝓗𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖈𝖆𝖓𝖔𝖓𝖘 ↝ Henry Creel ⊱ #⊰ ° ‧: ｡* ⚘ 🥀 ━◞ 𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕸𝖆𝖎𝖒𝖊𝖉 𝕲𝖔𝖉 ↝ Vecna ⊱ #⊰ ° ‧: ｡* ⚘ 🥀 ━◞ 𝕱𝖆𝖓𝖉𝖔𝖒 ↝ Stranger Things ⊱ #⊰ ° ‧: ｡* ⚘ 🥀 ━◞ Thought post ⊱ #Henry headcanons #y know what I started thinking about this again and tbh im so excited to see both things like omg so close

[figureone]

Yk i used to really disagree with your theory about the mindflayer, mostly because it's a trope i really dislike, but now I'm seeing all those completely insane theories/analysis about henry never having murdered anyone, Henry having clones and I'm like ????? Suddenly the mindflayer influencing Henry is a great idea in comparation, at least it makes some damn sense, i mean, people can theorize whatever they like, i know it's supposed to be fun, but acting like it's 100% canon and everyone else is stupid for not noticing it is annoying, they used to mock Henry apologists and now Henry is a saint and he has an evil brother/clone or whatever that is the actual murderer, they now claim to love Henry but for some reason ignore everything Jamie has ever said about his character unless they can twist it to fit their narrative

Anyway, i really like how you talk about Henry, and how you write him in your rp blog, do you have a degree in psychology or something? Because you write really well

Its been a ride hasn't. I mean they explicitly made posts mocking and dragging me personally for my posts only to turn around and start saying some of the exact stuff I said that they mocked me for, ONLY instead of actually being logical and normal about why they think xyz they started coming out with these absolutely batshit insane and outlandish theories of why Henrys cool actually while simultaneously maintaining this horrific shit about how hes a pedo and rapist. Like I dont get it?? What?? I mean, I think I blocked everyone in the tags (save for my followers LOL) about the time they started saying Henry's actual crime is rape and it was VIRGINA (Who is also a pedophile and a rapist, and Henry's rapist specifically -shudders-) who ACTUALLY committed all the murders and also something about "Peter Ballard" being Henry's gay lover or whatever, I don't know, I refused to read most of the posts and after blocking I haven't seen any for ages. Like I def missed the clone stuff and surely A LOT of other out of touch shit, lucky me. But EXACTLY! You're right. This is meant to be fun and I like(d) reading different peoples takes and thoughts, even if I don't or didn't necessarily agree. HELL I love making crazy AUs and playing with concepts that aren't even canon and just having silly fun like that but like. They had the audacity to be mocking me and other Henry fans for being Henry fans, then turning around and coming out with all that and then suddenly calling themselves Henry fans. What in the fuck? Never seen a lack of self awareness quite like it before. The self-absorbed, holier than thou tone and way they imposed this on "stupid Henry Creel apologists" like me only to get to where they are now with the shit they post is just ??? They're really like "I can excuse pedophilia and rape, but I draw the line at murder in self defense." Also I love how that watchman anon was a whole thing, bc ofc they had be going on about how Dr Manhattan was in his 30s and having some relationship with a 16 yr old or some crap and that this is relevant to Henry which is literally not and then Jamie came out and confirmed thats all bullshit like I hate to say I told em so but. Then I've seen folks making posts about shipping Henry/Vecna and Will and at first I thought they were joking / mocking but now I'm sure they're serious. I even had like an ACTUAL blog for shipping Will/Vecna follow me the other day (which I promptly blocked like that was low key traumatic for sec there, like the edits made me feel unwell give how UNDERAGE Will clearly is and looks as a young boy / teen vs Henry/Jamie's pics who def looks like a grown ass fucking man in his 30s ... Ugh.)

And this all isn't actually surprising to me bc a lot of assholes I've encountered in fandoms like this usually have all these secret "taboo" turn-ons (like pedophilia and non-con) and have secret accounts on sites like ao3 and twitter and flist and whatever to produce content surrounding that sort of stuff while acting like the head purity police in public on tumblr. Which is why I think some folks come out here talking so much nonsense surrounding those things, like its secret psychological fetish mining because suddenly people are agreeing like "oh yeah this character could be / is a pedo / a rapist / haha vecna has a crush on will / vecna raped will / this is all so obvious!!" etc, like its all just... So far out of touch with the source so canons def not where its coming from or why they're obsessed with those takes and that kind of stuff, and when ppl rb it and spread it, it validates them in a sort of roundabout or even direct way. And given the first ever post like that I saw from that group about Henry/Vecna as gay (and a rapist/pedo) was spoken about in a weirdly self indulgent, hurt/comfort, wump/wumpee, fanficcy type of way including Mike having to like, win Will with his pure gay love vs Vecna's evil gay lust. Took me back to 2009, I thought they were gonna sign off with some shit like "YAOIZ FOREVER!!! SO SMEXY!!! xDDDD :3 owo" Really makes you wonder. ANYWAY, big ol ramble aside, THANK YOU! Maybe I can turn you into a mindflayer theory truther 😉 sjfkhfjkd. Also thanks so much about the writing, thats been the highlight of my day ;_; TBH I don't have any professional skill at all. I taught myself to read and write (I mean that literally as the autistic kid everyone not subtly gave up on.) so I'm kinda blown away by that as a compliment. 😭 I think it maybe just comes down to the fact that I have personal experience with child abuse / abuse / mental illness / trauma / neurodivergence and also a big love of the horror genre and those things are mostly where I write from so they probably work well for Henry/Vecna's POV, but IDK. Tysm. ❤️❤️

#tbh i found the log in for my other blog last night but im thinking of remaking it as a main blog and transferring some of my crap over the #just having that blog for hcs / theories / discussions and stuff like that #but i gotta battle the autistic urge to be argumentative with this fandom all the time lately lol. #pedophillia ment tw

[mindflayerapologist]

In a modern AU I think the ST kids would get really into homestuck because it’s extremely convoluted and the classpects would appeal to their DND side of creating a character type (cleric, paladin, etc.) and their alignment…

Dustin gets on the rest about never skipping through anything. I think Lucas is either really into every aspect or skips some of the intermissions. Mike hasn’t skipped through anything because he tends to hyperfixate in stuff but he doesn’t remember hardly anything aside from some major plot points such as Ascend or the jokes that are plastered around the internet. Idk where Will lies in that spectrum

Will likes Dave because he also has daddy issues but more importantly because Dave’s apartment being a place where he never feels safe due to his brother potentially hiding cameras everywhere plus Lil Cal always watching is relatable as Will felt/feels like hes always being watched, first through the upside down and later through the mindflayer. Depending on the circumstance I think he finds Cal’s and thus Lord English’s influence on Bro to be really interesting and something he wants to explore more or offputting because it reminds him of being possessed, especially given how many people he perceives himself to have hurt as a result of that. Also into karkat because his whole arc of accepting that he’s not going to perfectly fill his quadrants the way troll society wants to is pretty much a metaphor for human sexuality and obviously Will is gay soooo… I also think he could possibly be into Mituna to some extent given Mituna was literally doomed by the narrative by being in a doomed timeline and Will probably feels like he is as well sometimes.

I think Dustin likes John and Rose, John because he’s kind of a smart ass and rose because she puts on an air of sarcastic and cynical nonchalance (although he is aware that in the text that’s largely a façade to mask larger issues). Probably also likes Roxy for her hacker skills and gets mad when people reduce her to an alcy.

I think Mike also likes John but as he gets older and he and Will start to butt heads more and more he gets attached to Dirk as a character because dirk thinks of himself as a villain and mike feels like Will often vilifies him (and to an extent he is right- a phone call goes both ways) and considering he’s “the leader” of the party but they’re constantly splitting off or finding new people to attach themselves to I think he’d be sympathetic to Dirk’s constant need for control that he can never get because his friends are always at each others throats and can’t work together the way the beta kids can. I also think he’s either a full vriska hater or a vriska apologist, perhaps even going through a metamorphosis of the two.

Lucas is harder for me to pin down. My gut says that he’d like rose for her sardonic view as well, and I think maybe he relates to her on a base level but also doesn’t like later renditions of her as she becomes an alcoholic like Roxy (who I don’t think he would like). He would also probably like Karkat and maybe even Equius because both of them have (although based on different life experiences from their place on the caste system) have a struggle that is based around fitting into their society, and especially in season 4 we see his struggle with wanting to finally not be picked on vs the way the basketball team actually is. I also could see Lucas as being into the other mspa comics and thus having an attachment to like, spades slick. I think he likes the entire midnight crew, just because it would be fun for him to like them.

I don’t see max or El being into homestuck really, max probably tried to get into it only be put off by the weird pacing and plot, and El because she doesn’t really understand the world and is shown to have a hard time with studying/reading (and still doesn’t know so many words) so a webcomic that involves giant walls of text that also happen to use terminology that is either made up or not typically used (such as the characters “absconding”) would not be her thing. Nevertheless I think the boys would probably try to point to characters they could relate to.

Mike tries to point El to vriska and sollux originally because of their psionics but I don’t believe el would be into them because she thinks they’re both kind of dishonest assholes. When that doesn’t work I think he’d point he towards Jade and she’d like her much better, also having powers with her space aspect but being an overall more friendly character that also based on her dreams seems to be way more entrenched in the plot itself (not just the comic but you know actually being a device or part of the game in and of herself) would be relatable to El because El feels kind of attached/entrenched with the Upside down.

Max would probably also like characters like Dave because she too feels like she needs to put up walls to be safe and she has a shitty older brother that she has way too many complicated feelings about. After the show ends and she’s blind (a headcanon I’m very fond of) Lucas makes jokes about her being similar to Terezi which she’s not super opposed to because Terezi is generally seen as a pretty badass character, although she still likes to fuck with him and pretend to be offended.

I will come back to this later probably and fill in which classpects they would have and other stuff like that. I’d really like to do an analysis on how SBaHJ would be perceived by the party but I’d have to think more on that

#stranger things headcanons #stranger things #homestuck #Will Byers #lucas sinclair #mike wheeler #dustin henderson #eleven #el hopper #max mayfield #long post

[midnighthangintree]

“Billy was a terrible person, why did Max mourn him?”

Not being a Billy apologist but hear me out. 

It’s because Billy was literally calling to her for help, yes the mindflayer took over but Max just wanted to help him and cure him. She may have not liked him but never wanted him to die. This may have been mentioned in season 4. I don’t remember. 

#jessica rewatches st #billy hargrove #max mayfield

[themaevethcometh]

I HAVE NO IDEA WHEN U POSTED IT but i sorta agree with what you’ve said about billy hargrove- i commented on another blog saying that i thought maybe if billy were to have had a younger biological sister (say the same age as max) she probably would have been frustrated with that fact that nobody tried to help billy somehow get the mindflayer out of him like they did with Will- and they responded that they thought if he had one she’d like genuinely hate him because he would probably be abusive to her like max (which is fine everyone is entitled to their opinion) but like i kinda viewed it more in the sense that she would have been part of some of his fondest memories- and for some of his darkest, which she would have been fairly young for and thus have a hard time even understanding what was happening (such as her mom not coming back or Neil being abusive to their mom) and so billy might have at least a little brotherly like instinct or like feel at least a little protective bc i don’t think he’d like or enjoy seeing a younger sister abused by Neil- now he would definitely still have a shitty attitude and would most likely show affection in a very different way than most- but i kinda pictured it in a way that if would affect his character at least a little instead of him just being a truly terrible person to the very core- thoughts? LOL sorry for this whole essay 😭😭

but like you said billy didn’t really have anyone- people are so quick to say that Jonathan had an abusive dad but didn’t turn out like billy- but jonathan had joyce!! i am not a billy apologist i swear- but billy’s only support (his mom) left him behind with an abusive man and he had no one to support him (now this doesn’t excuse his actions but like he was the way he was because of this)

I think the way that a relationship between Billy and a younger biological sister develops has everything to do with how Neil (and their mom) treats her.

With Max, Billy mirrors the only other dynamic in the house at the time: his father's abuse towards him. He's harsh and generally unpleasant, gets physical with her once (grabbing her wrist in the car), because that's what he knows. Max, to our knowledge, is never on the receiving end of Neil's abuse. I'm sure that prompts a lot of complicated jealousy in Billy that she can get away with things that he can't, which informs how he treats her. Max is also Billy's responsibility. That's how it's described by Neil, even though she's 13 and genuinely doesn't need a full-time babysitter (nor does she want one). He is required to drive her where she wants and is not allowed to leave her alone, and he gets punished for it when he does. That being said, he has that scene in the car in season 2 where he says that, like it or not, they're siblings now and they're stuck together, and i think that the way the sibling dynamic plays out is very mixed up in his mind. Although he carries a lot of resentment towards her, he asks her why she's upset and I do think part of him cares about her well-being a little.

That being said, Max did also care about him. During season 3, she constantly hopes that Billy isn't the mindflayer, and she and El investigate because Max is worried about him. The point of locking him in the sauna was to try to get the mindflayer out of him, and Max constantly tries to appeal to him as Billy-her-brother rather than the monster, then sobs over his body. Regardless of her dark thoughts in season 4, season 3 Max had turned some sort of corner with Billy and didn't actually want him dead, and it's apparent in every scene they have together (and her last scene where she's sitting in his room after his death).

Would this dynamic be different if, instead of a step-sister, Billy had a biological sister who was part of the family since the beginning? I think it depends. If Neil was only abusive to Billy and their mother, not the sister, I think Billy's resentment over that could grow stronger a lot sooner, turning him into more of a monster to her. With Max, he can justify Neil not abusing her while still abusing him with Max being an outsider and Susan's daughter rather than Neil's, but those excuses wouldn't be possible with a biological sister. It also depends on how the abuse plays out in front of the sister. Is it something that she's aware of as "just a part of the family dynamic" since the beginning? Is it kept a secret from her while she's little? How does she react to Billy (and how does Billy react to her) after she knows? All of these things could influence their dynamic.

If Neil abused her too, however, that would absolutely bond them together and they both would die for each other. In that instance, once their mom left, they would be all that each other has, and they would both become probably the one semi-positive aspect of their home lives. When Billy gets controlled by the mindflayer, she would try everything possible to get it out of him, because the monster is supposed to be their dad, not a supernatural creature from an alternate dimension.

Jonathan and Billy's situations aren't really comparable in my opinion, because you're right! He had Joyce!!! the #1 mom!!! I'm not sure when Lonnie left the picture, but the big difference is that Jonathan always had a loving mother, and his abusive dad left. Billy has always had an abusive dad, and his loving mother left. That's a very different dynamic. Jonathan also had Will, his very sweet, very sensitive younger brother who he wanted to love and protect. In that instance, they were in it together. With Max and Billy, they're treated differently and in two different situations, so it makes sense that there would be contention between them.

billy is not a good person. but, as i said in the original post, i find it very interesting that so many people think he is irredeemable when there's a lot of textual evidence that his negative environment has shaped him to be this way, and getting him love and support could have easily led to a redemption arc

#maeve answers #anon #sorry this got long lol i have thoughts! #billy hargrove #i just really think people being able to change for the better is important!!!! #like as a society it's so important to look at people who are trying to be better than they were and to let them do so #and fiction is an easy way to study stuff like that #stranger things

[henrysglock]

the thing is, the same argument is used by people who claim that the mind flayer is actually the big bad and it is going to be held as a secret for S5. so you are essentially using the same argument as the people who claim that the duffers are intentionally lying to keep the 'secret' to reveal that henry has not been in total power or has not been the big bad.

i am listening to your theories as much as I'm listening to other henry apologists theories who claim that the mf is actually the big bad or that whatever happened to will happened due to some random coincidence and that henry had no role in it.

just because i am listening to yours or others' theories do not mean i am going to agree with them. and no, i do not think the duffers are lying. i do not think that they are keeping something regarding this as a secret. your points essentially sound like other people's arguments who are claiming that henry was manipulated by the mindflayer when he was a kid and that mindflayer is the big bad. pointing this out does not mean i am being rude or calling you delusional. i have never even used that word, i think.

I…First off, that post wasn’t aimed at you personally. It’s a general statement. I have been called delusional, even if you didn’t use that exact wording.

Second off, it’s fact that the Duffers lie about their big plot points. They lie all the time. I’m not just pulling that out of my ass for funzies. They withhold information from their actors, their sfx team, and yes, most importantly, the general audience. Otherwise there’d be no point to a plot twist. Of course they won’t show their hand, especially not right before the final season.

My problem with the being compared to actual apologists/MF Big Bad theorists is that there’s a clear narrative that my theories all seem to cohere with which fits into the themes of ST and connect all the details of the show together, but the MF Big Bad theories don’t cohere with…anything.

It’s always either “Henry did nothing wrong” or “He’s just a bad joker remake” and “Actually, there’s no bigger message about humanity. It’s just eldritch horror because that’s cooler”.

My theories acknowledge and actually draw on the fact that Henry is both victim and abuser. The MF Big Bad theories either erase him of essentially all guilt for everything or reduce him to a boring two-dimensional villain. Hence, why I don’t appreciate the comparison.

The fact is that Henry hasn’t been in total power, even just based on canon. He was, at the very least, powerless from the moment his mother decided to send him off to Brenner to the moment El took Soteria out of his neck. Henry is both a victim and an abuser. He wants power because he was powerless. His method of obtaining that power is abusive, which is what makes him the villain.

#asks #henry creel analysis #henryposting

[hawkinsp0st]

1, 4, 6, 11

1 - i adore s4. that shit was perfect start to finish. no notes. but i will also include in this answer that i almost put s3 because i am coming out as an s3 apologist. the pop 80s vibes are Immaculate, the mall, the carnival, summertime, elmax, elmax, lumax, elmax, byler/lumax movie date, lumax, camp!mike wheeler, and also, elmax. :’) amen.

4 - fave older teen—nancy wheeler <3 she has been close to my heart since s1. she’s perfect and has done nothing wrong ever btw.

6 - i’ll pick 1 fave from each season: s1 - holly, jolly, s2 - idk the name of the episode but the one where will’s in the hospital and at the end of it joyce/mike are realizing that it’s a trap by the mindflayer, s3 - the case of the missing lifeguard, s4 - papa

11 - best ending of a season… i adore s2’s ending, not just bc of the snow ball, but bc of that shot at the veeeery end, with the hawkins middle gymnasium being present in the upside down, and the shadow monster hovering over it. amazing fucking shot, i get goosebumps every time

#asks

[dungeons-n-dumbasses-guide]

Character Idea 0005

Mindflayer bard who was cut off from the hivemind and therefore the rest of their people who somehow has to find a way to reconnect to the hivemind.

They use all the knowledge they had access to while connect to the hivemind as their muse for their bardic art form of choice (I want to see a Mindflayer who has the opportunity to grow outside of their hivemind, and really figure out who they are.)

#Yes I'm a neurodivirgent person who has spent almost their entire life masking their traits and adopting traits from those around me until I #yes I'm a monster apologist #yes we exist #character ideas #5e #dnd 5e #Roman's guide to dungeons and dumbasses #d&d #d&d 5e #Dungeons and Dragons #character creation #character inspiration #bard #mindflayer

[aemiron-main]

also apparently someone called figureone is accusing me of being a henwill shipper which is insane. like. ive made analyses (esp older ones) about will and vecna and the idea of a predatory dynamic there/vecna’s predator coding (which like. You guys have Seen those posts. This is Not News) but IM not the one with an entire twitter talking about how will and henry are soulmates who gently kiss eachother and how they should fuck and be such a good couple etc etc and Actual Ship Shit- that’s finalb*ybyers’ twt 💀💀💀

And also, I know figureone had a diff acct back in the day/we argued with eachother and hilariously enough, they tagged james and i in this massive writeup about henry/vecna’s innocence (assuming that henry is vecna/they believe he is) which a.) my opening response to that was “alright, so, i think we agree on more than you think we do, but there’s a lot here i disagree with,” b.) even WITH my innocent henry posting, that whole writeup/that user’s claims are something i still disagree with the vast majority of because they lack evidence.

I never posted the reply, though, because they blocked me, unblocked me to tag me in it, and then later blocked me again before i could post the reply/before i’d fully finished it.

Like atp my memory of it isnt great but maybe later ill dig around & see if i still have my reply saved somewhere but its like. My thoughts on their analyses/beliefs havent really changed 💀💀💀 there’s still a handful of things i agreed with them on at the time and still agree on such as henry not being born evil even if he is vecna etcetc but so much of it just lacks evidence.

And also, iirc they were very much getting into delusional apologist territory and just like. Making claims that are very obviously contradicted by firm evidence in the show/making some odd claims re: leftism and definitions of abuse (and one of my main qualms w them initially was some of the tags they left on stav’s post re: st, hnl and nazism). Anyway i just cant take them seriously when theyre talking about “making theories with canon context in mind” because so much of their writeup was just. Speculation about a completely sentient shadow monster/mindflayer and a lack of evidence. Again, there WAS stuff i agreed with in it, but they never ended up finding that out because they blocked me before i could post it 🫡🫡🫡

#making a tag for this so yall can mute it if you want #ems beef