#like with a romance subplot ideally i should be invested in their dynamic and i think why they love each other is an important part of that | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

hamliet · 3 years

Note

I remember in one of your alchemical rwby meta posts you mention that if Ruby were to have a romantic partner they'd likely be a Philosopher's Child like her, bringing up Oscar as the most likely option to match her. But I also remember you mentioning that Penny is also a Philosopher's Child? Would she also be a match with Ruby? Or is there some key difference between the dynamics?

I'm sorry if this question seems bothersome, I know you mention not being invested in any of the ships outside Renora, but as someone who likes Rosegarden and Nuts and Dolts, I've been pretty torn between both at the moment, and was just curious as to what your thoughts were.

Yes, Penny is a philosophical stone. But before I get into shipping, can I muse about how there are lots of interesting parallels between the three of them! (Nuts, Dolts, and Gardens?)

Penny’s struggle is kind of a prototype for what we know is lying ahead for both Ruby and Oscar by the end of the series: we know Salem wants to turn Ruby into a Grimm-sort of creature, and we know Ozpin is supposed to eventually consume Oscar, much like Penny is now struggling for control of herself against the virus Watts infected her with. So... I’m interested to see how this identity theme spins out (obviously, I don’t think Ruby will become a Grimm or that Oscar will be permanently Ozpin at the end).

Now onto the rough seas. pls don’t send me hate i don’t want to argue

I...

... personally don’t think Nuts and Dolts works on an alchemical and narrative level. While it’s a cute ship and I see why it has many fans, I don’t think it will happen.

Alchemically, what I said previously is:

[Ruby’s] romantic partner should be someone who is also both sun and moon, who is white where she is red, gold where she is silver, earth where she is air (she flies), mind where she is heart. Ideally they would also be a philosophical child.

Penny isn’t really marked as sun or moon, but she is both gold and silver--but she’s also red and air (she flies), like Ruby. She is also heart, not mind, as Ruby literally tells Penny “you have a heart” (which is actually a really cool twist on the robot character trope!). However, these aren’t huge issues.

What really makes me think it won’t happen in a romantic sense (it’s clearly a BroTP) is the specific textual coding and patterns they’ve used for other canon ships haven’t shown up for Ruby/Penny. I’m not saying they have everything planned out meticulously, but there’s nothing currently that sticks out to me as romance. I know Ruby’s voice actor likes the ship, but looking at the actual text... I don’t see it. I could be wrong, of course, so keep that in mind, and all the power to shippers.

In anything, the writers seem to be making some script choices that seem definitively platonic. For example, in the most recent episode, Ruby told Penny she was special because she was “our friend.” That’s pretty specific wording. You rarely have an intended romantic endgame say so definitively that they are a “friend” and if you do, you single it out (ie “my friend,”) to show that they are special and significant in a unique way. To have Ruby include Penny in a group seemed to make it pretty definitely platonic.

In contrast, let’s talk Sun, Blake, and Yang. Even if I do not think they handled Blake/Sun well, I also think they were writing themselves into a corner because the writing explicitly coded both Sun/Blake and Blake/Yang with romance. I’m not saying Black Sun should’ve happened, don’t misunderstand me! unless they’re heading for poly Blackbumbleby endgame, which, bring it RWBY What I mean when I say they didn’t handle it well is that “nvm platonic” to Blake/Sun after the explicitly romantic coding (Blake’s parents assuming Sun was a boyfriend, getting caught alone together, etc.) isn’t great writing. However, the writers were also teasing Bumbleby at the same time: Yang persuaded Blake to attend a dance, literally lost limbs for her, and confronted Blake’s abusive ex. So it is not as if they swung into a ship that had no romantic build up, because Bumbleby did have some.

My point is that if Nuts and Dolts was intended to be canon or considered a possibility, they should be teasing it with explicit romantic coding, and they’re not.

Rosegarden is more likely at this point, if for no other reason than that they are teasing Oscar as having a crush on Ruby, and while we don’t know if she feels anything at the moment, it’s fiction, not real life wherein someone may well not return your feelings. In best writing everything matters, so the most common ending to the subplot of a character having a crush, especially in a fairy tale which RWBY is, is that it’s eventually reciprocated. (Of course *looks back at Sun and Blake* really who knows?)

Beyond the text, while Nuts and Dolts is comforting, I am personally kinda ‘eh’ to it because I don’t think it’s the most narratively interesting option in terms of characters or themes (but others are welcome to disagree; my word isn’t law and this is partially taste!) Penny’s whole thing is that she accepts Ruby as she is, which is beautiful but--in fiction, especially in a war story--a better foundation for friendship than romance. Imo (but also the case in terms of our three canon ships (including Arkos) the best romances also challenge both characters to become a better version of themselves via making decisions other characters disagree with (Pyrrha leaving Jaune; Blake leaving RWY, etc). I just don’t see this between Penny and Ruby. But again, to each their own, and I could well be wrong.

#ask hamliet #rwby #shipping #i'm so close to tagging this yet am terrified #better not #rosegarden #there #that should be safe #this is 100% not intended to be hate or even in any way saying any ship is bad #just saying what i think based on the text and what i personally feel as an opinion #Anonymous

29 notes · View notes

syranaluvr · 5 years

Text

Unpopular Opinion?: I do not like how DickBabs was executed in YJ

Just as a disclaimer I'm not saying I think the ship is bad. And to anyone who is ecstatic about this ship - don’t worry, no one can take that happiness from you.

Also, this post is not meant to take anything away from how important and great it is to have a disabled character in a wheelchair in a loving romantic relationship. Due to many things including the desexualization of disabled people by society, this kind of a relationship is valuable and something needed in media. In fact, this representation makes the execution of the ship in YJ even more disappointing.

In summary, what I'm talking about in this post is why I dislike the way the romantic relationship between Dick and Babs came about. It basically boils down to if you had not seen Dick and Barabra in any other form of media, would you find this relationship meaningful at all?

Do they love each other? Sure.

Do they have history? Sure.

Did the show actually show us reasons to believe these are true? No.

And that's why I'm upset. You can show them kissing as many times as possible within 30 seconds, but that's not enough for me to be invested in a relationship or find it meaningful. I'm annoyed that it seems like the writers relied on the fact that people knew of/shipped D*ckBabs in other iterations of their characters (comics, other shows, movies) to give the relationship in the show any basis at all.

And no, I don't even think the Young Justice comics count not that they even contained significant D*ckBabs setup. Those comics may be in the same universe but they are still not the show, so no story point, character arc, or character relationship should be informed by or rely on what happens in the comic that playboy Dick comic chapter was whack anyway. The show is its own entity. A viewer should be able to only watch the show and understand what is going on. It is disrespectful to the viewers to expect anything else. Sure, they may not catch all the references or be able to predict some things that more well-versed comic fans may, but they should be able to understand major plot points and character relationships. And I do not believe that the show gave us adequate build up or setup to a relationship between Dick and Barbara.

If the plan was to have them as a couple then why didn't they make them a couple? Why was there no buildup in season 2 when she was part of the team? My younger sister literally forgot she was on the team at all in season 2. I know the show is not focused on romance, but they have shown that when it comes to the main characters, there is time devoted to their relationships. Both Supermartian and Spitfire had moments and scenes that showed the characters growing closer and gave us a sense of their dynamic. Even though Zatanna and Robin did not have a full-fledged romantic relationship, their New Years kiss still made sense given the flirty and sometimes tender moments we did get from them. The writers know how to build setup for character relationships but did not give us anything for Dick and Babs, not even a close friendship. Sure, we could assume they are close based on circumstance, but we didn't actually see anything substantial. Sorry I don’t think touching hands while passing off an unconscious Bumblebee counts.

I'm not saying every stage of a relationship needs to be shown on screen. It does make sense that after a time jump new relationships may form. But there still should be some setup. For example, if at the start of season 3 Jaime and Bart were in a relationship, whether or not you ship it, it would still be understandable. We saw them grow close as friends, saw their dynamic, and how they particularly cared for each other, so it's not unreasonable that two years later their relationship could have progressed to something romantic. D*ckBabs, on the other hand, feels like it came out of nowhere (once again assuming you haven't seen the ship in other media). My brother literally said "wait, who is that?" when Babs and Dick kissed my other sister said "wait I thought he and Artemis were a couple” but she isn't the ideal person to use as an example so I digress. And my brother actually has consumed a lot of DC media but he was still blindsided by this relationship because there was literally no indication it would happen in this show at all.

I'm also not saying that every relationship in the show needs a three-act romantic subplot. Tim and Cassie being a couple didn't have much setup at all if I remember correctly but it's not that big of a deal because they are side characters. Dick is one of if not the main characters of this show. As a main character, we the viewers, rightfully expect more for him. We expect his character arc and relationships to be more meaningful, we expect there to be time dedicated to them, and the truth is we did not get that from this relationship. Hell, even Cheshire and Roy got more of a believable romance arc, and they're both side characters. When a main character gets into a relationship, viewers should not be left wondering how this happened or worse, ‘who even is that?’

Once again, this is not intended to be ship hate. I, personally am not a D*ckBabs shipper (because I didn’t ever watch or read anything with them together in it) but I still can see the potential of this relationship. This is another reason why it’s frustrating that they didn’t give it the setup that could have been beautiful and fun. Hopefully, maybe in later episodes they’ll flashback to scenes that led up to their romance, but I personally don’t think it would make up for not showing us the buildup in the first place. But it is possible that the scenes of them together in current time will construct a lovely, meaningful relationship on their own.

I guess I could say more but this is already way too long.

I’m always happy to discuss this more or anything else YJ with ya!

#yj #young justice #yjo #yj outsiders #yj season 3 #dick grayson #i hope this seemed objective and not salty #i just has some thoughts i wanted to discuss #mine #also maybe i expect more out of ships than the regular person idk

106 notes · View notes

maligknights · 7 years

Note

What's your favorite plot and setting out of the FE games? (they don't have to come from the same one)

Mmm as for setting I have to go with Elibe as my personal fave.

Yeah nostalgia glasses kinda but idk, even though it is not as developed as Jugdral and Tellius you can tell it’s one of the better thought out worlds. The Lore can be a bit too vague but I feel it really plays to the mysticism and magic of its history.

Elibe feels like a soft reset of Archanea in many of its setups but it explores a bit more of its age-old conflicts with more detail. The whole Quintessence experimentation makes dragonkin all the more interesting and manakete dengeneration kinda makes more sense: the ending winter has created a drop or increase in the world’s physical laws where giant beings cannot be sustained rather than a vague probably genetic decline because reasons.

It feels like a world full of mystery and where the clash of incredible forces has its consequences, the cultures although brushed in stand out from each other and it is a setting brimming with love from the developers.

As for plot… Mmmm I am really torn between Jugdral and Tellius. Both had two games to develop its worlds and characters with detail competent fantasy authors would kill for. However everything in the story ties really well with the way things are set up and how the characters act and react.

So we have the tragedy of Ciguyn bringing Armageddon by having two kids VS let’s free the furries and then kill god.

Jugdral had this epic scale of conflict that no other game has replicated, the tragedy and implication of every turn of the story and that engulfs each character just feels massive.

However outside the more personal tales such as Alvis’s of Leif’s, what Jugdral makes in a big brew of EPIC WORLD CONFLICT , it sometimes lacks on the characters (mostly speaking from FE4, FE5 nails this much better being a much smaller story). Also, outside the Oosawa Manga, I never thought Sigurd and Diadora’s romance was too interesting, really in the game Alvis is who makes things turn much more delicious.

I was not as invested in Sigurd and Celice as protagonists as in other FE titles, I have to admit. Leif is a whole other tale, I just wanna wrap him in a blanket and give him a hot mexican chocolate and tell him everything is gonna be alright.

Tellius almost reaches the scale of Jugdral, but being much more character-oriented I believe it balances world vs characters investment a bit better and every character has a role that supports plot and world. Ike is an interesting character and aside from being kinda shoehorned into Radiant Dawn as the mighty hero, you are with him in his quest 100%. Elincia, Micaiah, Sanaki and the other heroes focused on in both Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn really stand out and as the player you have their backs.

Tellius fleshes out every character, no matter how small his or her role. Everyone’s got baggage, interests and believable personality traits and ideals that go hand-in hand with their background. Even the most simplistic chaeacters like Ashnard have a justification for being the way they are.

Each country has like its own personality and a pretty detailed history and the dynamics between countries as experiences by their citizens is spot-on. Tellius presents a world of diversity, flavor and with an opportunity to expand itself at every corner that the game does take advantage of. And all this supports the story and expands upon it.

TL;DR: Jugdral is more gritty and poignant but Tellius is better constructed. Tellius also has the benefit of Hindsight, where the story even outright challenges some of the ideals that have been staples of the franchise for years such as Divine Right and that makes it all the more interesting. Also some of the major subplots don’t get wrapped up so perfectly as in Jugdral (like the whole Almedha x Ashnard kid stuff) but gets a satisfying and more realistic conclusion.

Jugdral’s plot rides on Archanea’s lore as well sooo that poses a very small problem if you are like me who played Fe4 before Mystery of the Emblem.

I really enjoyed both and both are my top examples of the best FE has to offer in terms of plot, setting and sometimes gameplay. So accounting for Sequels, Sidequels and quasi-official works, Tellius might take the cake.

Neither are 100% perfect, I acknowledge that both have its share of weaker characters, setups and plotholes. But as they are, they both are as perfect the combination of plot and worlds as it gets yet.

Also should either get any more complex and gritty and they might as well have a drunk dwarf character *ba-dum tsss*

#maligask #damoselcastel #fe4 #fe10 #fe9 #fe5 #discussion #lore #worldbuilding #plot #story #elibe #fe6 #fe7 #jugdral #tellius #obvious joke is obvious #I can't help but compare ASOIAF to Tellius and Jugdral

5 notes · View notes