#korean radfems

[hard--headed--woman]

Something happened in my English class that I think perfectly sums up how so many people don't understand feminism.

At the beginning of each class, we have to talk about something in english for two minutes. This woman decided to talk about radical feminism in South Korea. She explained how feminists there decide not to date men, have sex with men, marry men and have kids with men anymore. It was very interesting and well explained, and I was happy to see another woman from my uni talking about feminism. From what I understood, she's not Korean but goes to Korea often and has a lot of radical feminists friends there.

Then another woman raises her hand and asks "don't you think these rules are a little bit tough?". I roll my eyes, but the other woman is confused. She frowns. "What rules? What are you talking about?". "I mean, the not dating men rule. Isn’t it a bit too tough?". "Well of course it's tough for the men but that's the goal isn’t? Feminism has to be a bit tough to men in order to work". She really didn't seem to understand what that other woman meant, and the other was apparently confused about it. "I mean for the women... for the Korean women. Aren't these rules too tough for Korean feminists? Isn’t there a way to help women without giving them such hard rules to follow?".

I was very annoyed (so was the woman who talked about this movement in the first place) because how can you miss the point so badly? How does she think feminism works? Does she believe some sort of higher power gives Korean women rules to follow and that they get thrown in jail if they date a man? How can you describe this movement as "rules"? They aren't rules. They would be rules if Korean women were forced to obey them, if they were punished for dating men. That's not the case. What's happening is that some women decide of their own free will to stop dating men (among other things). They don't follow any rules, they freely chose to do what they do. It's about women's freedom, about women deciding what they do with their life and body. But I guess people nowadays use this concept only to defend prostitution and makeup, without understanding it in reality, when it comes to women doing things that go against what the patriarchy wants them to do.

Anyway, I find it interesting that this woman's first conclusion was that these were rules rather than free choices. This is why many people see radical feminism as a cult; they can't understand the idea of women making their own choices if those choices defy patriarchy. They think we must be some kind of cult that brainwashes them and forces them to obey and follow complicated rules, because how else can a woman decide to stop fucking men? A free woman would never do that.

#radblr #radical feminism #radfem safe #radfem #radical feminist safe #radical feminists please touch #radical feminists do touch #rad fem #radical feminist #radical feminists do interact #4b movement #korean feminism #korean radfems #feminism #women's rights #feminist #korea #south korea

[moidhaterxxx]

This one thing annoys me when I talk about radical feminism.

Inevitably some women (western women usually) complain about how "mean" and "too extreme" it is. Then they realize I'm a woc and they immediately say, oh I totally understand for you though, your country has the worst men haha.

Like?! It isn't for lack of trying for yt men. They are just as bad and you need to get into radical feminism before they force you back to the middle ages. They've already gone after abortion haven't they?

#Plus it's sometimes weirdly racist like oh yes u have barbaric men of course u can b a radfem #radical feminists please touch #radfem #radical feminism #radical feminist safe #rudefem #This is also about korean 4B6T movement #They always add a weird justifier of oh yeah kormales are the worst #But it's all men too

[yurifem]

any radically aligned women 18+ interested in joining a language learning server let me know!! i recently made one🎉

popular languages are: spanish, german, french, & russian.

#radfems please touch #radfems please interact #language learning #radfem discord servers #spanish #korean #german #french

[tostonera]

I don’t live in a very diverse area, so basically everyone dates within race/ethnicity which is why maybe I don’t understand completely what this person is saying. Also, “universal woc experience” since when lmao? You mean woc in the US or Europe or other countries/regions with large diaspora bc there are many places in the world where you don’t meet ppl of other races frequently in the first place, or are people you rarely interact with much less for a romantic encounter.

But anyway, this was in a video where a woman is saying that she doesn’t date Korean men bc they can be misogynistic, racist, homophobic, etc. Not dating Korean men doesn’t mean she’s dating white men, but this comment is what makes me think that the underlying message being received by this commenter is that it’s better to date white men. Regardless of whether that was her intention or not. This isn’t a thing of “betraying your race” bc women don’t owe anything to men and shouldn’t date men of their race bc of “loyalty to their race” or whatever, that’s not what I’m saying. I just think it’s ridiculous the implication that white men are somehow better or more feminist. I think some woc in cultures that have specific cultural norms that are oppressive to them (machismo, for example) imagine whiteness as inherently “progressive” bc they don’t do that specific thing “he wasn’t raised as some ‘macho pecho peludo’ so he can’t hurt me like that”. I say this as someone who’s been there (not in a romantic sense personally, but in a ‘I bet gringos are less homophobic/misogynistic etc’ sense), but don’t be deluded into thinking that bc they don’t do a specific misogynistic thing in your culture they don’t have other ways of being misogynistic or that they aren’t misogynistic at all. It’s important for women to speak up about the ways in which men in their cultures hurt them and the specific ways they do, and if you don’t want to date a man in your race bc of that then I’m so happy for you. But that doesn’t mean a white man is gonna treat you better.

The video was fine btw, women should talk about the shitty men of their own cultures, but that comment made me feel weird bc of the implication that white women are happily in relationships with their white men, or that white men are never rejected for being misogynistic/racist/homophobic etc. And what I’ve said applies to all men ofc but people are so quick to adore white men for the most minimal things “he says he is a feminist!🥹” bc I’ve never met a single Latino man in my life claim to be a feminist. Does that make me think white men are less misogynistic and more “feminist”? No!

#white men suck!!! lol #and him or his family can be racist to YOU #just be careful #saw a few comments saying ‘don’t date any of them they all suck!!’ #which ofc don’t want to derail what she’s saying about Korean men in particular but is so true #im not crazy for thinking that comment is weird right? #radblr #radical feminism #feminism #radfem #misogyny

[txttletale]

[least racist poerson in the world voice] well. its not fair to criticize korean radfems, theyre just foreigners they dont know any better :/

#tattletxt

[decolonize-the-left]

Also don't just take it from me, take it from literal Korean women in Korea ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Radfeminism is not the entirety of feminism in Korea, nor is it even that popular apparently? Western journalists are just sensationalizing reactionary ideology from Asia and radfems are in fact just riding that wave..like I fucking said.

Get fucked and leave me alone now thanks.

[eastgaysian]

I really enjoyed reading your writing on the 4b movement because Ive had... feelings about that I havent been able to elaborate. theres been this general framing by some folks that transmisogyny and radfems/terfs/gendercriticals (whatever theyre calling themselves nowadays) dont exist in feminist movements outside of the states. when 'radical' acts like this are done that its actually in cable of being transphobic and transmisogynistic because somehow that can only exist in the us of a. dunno. thanks for speaking on it and spreading the info.

again, i have to say that i'm not especially knowledgeable or well-read about korean politics or feminist movements - but even with cursory knowledge, or just like, reading comprehension and basic concern about transmisogyny, it should be apparent that the 4B movement is trans exclusionary political lesbianism. we don't need to import that to the us. there have already been people advocating for political lesbianism, historically, in the us. it's fundamentally transmisogynistic and it's not effective feminist praxis.

and yeah it's difficult to articulate but there's an attitude towards the politics of non-western countries that is often, like, patronizing/condescending and refuses to understand them as anything but one-dimensional. the reactionary misogyny in south korea is pronounced and vile (true!) so the militant radical feminists opposing them must be good and aspirational (...swing and a miss!). (and presupposing that there aren't any other schools of feminist thought in south korea, much less queer/transfeminists.) and like, as if the deeply conservative us puppet state neocolony doesn't have heavy western influence in its reactionary politics. sometimes it is best to shut up and stop talking 👍

#mingbox

[necronatural]

Context on Project Moon discourse

I did some digging and watched some internet slapfights between Korean users, and collected as much context as humanly possible, trying to avoid hearsay where I can:

Misogynistic dudes start complaining about how sexless and non-waifu-female-heavy the game is, feeling the skimpy Sinclair outfit with the thotty little collar VS the fully covered Ishmael outfit is pointed feminist jeering (a law Hawkeye Initiative). Korean anti-feminists are really sensitive to pointed feminist jeering. More on that in a bit

Upon learning the identity artist is male, they trawl the rest of the staff to prove their stupid-ass theory.

They latch onto the lead CG artist, who has tweeted about feminism before.

Project Moon receives countless threats and people marching on their office IRL demanding to speak to the CEO.

The resulting hate campaign leads to Project Moon firing the lead artist for violation of contract; it was specifically requested by the company that all users delete political statements and controversial topics before joining, and the tweets the incels are using seem to prove that the worst case scenario for not adhering to the request has come to pass.

The thing is, she did delete the tweets.

This user has screencapped incels scrambling to justify their belief the game is for man-haters, including a statement that he had dug up deleted tweets. These are old records.

These are the retweets, all made before joining the company (but again, the policy was that the tweets like this should be scrubbed). Most of them are just being catty. The most extreme statements are a scathing satire even a child could understand, and some general feminist sentiments which are not incendiary in any way. It seems they were screencapped to cement a pattern of passionate feelings on feminism.

In Korea, feminism is considered a wedge issue, which means basic activism becomes extremely politically charged. Think of it like how trans issues are being treated in America at the moment, or how "Critical Race Theory" was a wedge issue like 2 years ago. Nevertheless, the most hateful statements in these tweets are not "feminist", but rather annoyance at misogyny, and pretty obviously jokes.

The tweet that the incels are latching onto here states "if being a feminist makes me Megalia, I am Megalia. If being against patriarchy makes me anti-social, I am anti-social". Megalia was a scumbag leftist radfem group originating from Korea's 4chan (anonymous messageboards). It was bad enough that banning gay slurs created a splinter group. Megalia was well-known for mirroring misogynistic behaviours back onto men. They were reviled. An actress lost her job for wearing a T-shirt this group sold, even though the funds were going to supporting women seeking legal actions. Association with Megalia was reputation poison.

Notice I refer to them in the past tense, because Megalia shut down in 2017. The tweet was in 2018. You could not get any more obvious that the statement being made was "you can insult me by calling me Megalia, but I still believe in feminism". There is no association with this incendiary group.

Incels "supported" their argument with an image of Yi Sang holding a vial in basically one of the only 2 ways you can hold a vial, calling it a reference to 🤏, an emoji used as the Megalia logo interpreted to mean "men have small penises". This insane interpretation is being used to cement the whole company as misandrist.

Therefore: Project Moon fired their lead artist even though she didn't violate her contract because insane incels did a "how dare you say we piss on the poor" bad faith misinterpretation of deleted tweets in order to justify their belief that Project Moon is a man-hating company, and as a man-hating company deserves to be annihilated, leading to threats to staff.

The artist for Leviathan later stated that Project Moon pushed the comic forward with no buffer, and when the schedule became unbearable, they just cancelled it. They were told there was an issue with production (supported by the fact the company dropped the translation in favour of focusing on the game), but this news has made the artist pessimistic about the company's treatment of their art team. (Update: deleted, with a statement they feel they felt attached to their debut work, and struggle with feeling like they ran away.)

Here's the artist Vellmori's twitter if you would like to support them through this period.

#project moon #limbus company

[femenaces]

Western radfems will read articles about South Korea’s 6B4T movement (no sex, child rearing, dating, or marrying with men, no buying sexist products, supporting fellow movement members, & rejecting beauty standards) and cheer wildly in support, saying things like “Korean radfems pull no punches, so amazing! We should be more like them!”

but then when women here suggest we get serious in the exact same way, it’s “what? That’s too extreme! No one can be expected to live that way. Why do you HATE heterosexual women?”

Like… what?

[ghoooooooooooooooost]

the incel problem in the kr game industry has been there for years, but it really seems like projmoon started a chain reaction to the recent things going down. the company in the spotlight currently is nexon, involving maplestory n blue archive among other games. and nexon doesn't have the "indie company" excuse

dudes are currently complaining any time they see anything resembling a 🤏 pinching hand gesture. an artist from an animation studio working with nexon (studio ppuri) has been fired. art is being edited or taken down because of incels combing through literal seconds of clips to catch things that look like 🤏 . studio ppuri is under investigation; associations and unions have been holding conferences and protests against nexon

(clip of the ppuri mv that was taken down. the screenshot under it shows up for only a second and just looks like a half heart)

blue archive is also.... currently under a lotta heat online for other reasons including this...

+ these guys brought up the gesture when they harassed the limbus cg artist too but it didn't cross my mind at the time

(the limbus company cg mentioned)

a korean radfem group, megalia, did use the pinching gesture as a symbol in the past, but they're defunct. and obviously assuming all feminists are like that or that anyone who does/draws the pinching movement is one of them is still ridiculous. so is claiming any instance of it is hate speech like nexon is doing

a couple days after i initially wrote this post it came to light that the artist who was fired wasn't even responsible for that part of the storyboard. she was scrapegoated. nexon has also been coddling the incels and harming women employees by doing things like giving out the social medias of said employees to fans of dungeon & fighter (what the hell)

#text post #i know i said i might stop following the pmoon situation bc i didn't agree w some of the big protestors but i feel like i gotta keep lookin #like there's emergency court meetings now it's so bad. maplestory.... #edited this a few days later

[hard--headed--woman]

we seriously need a bigger movement of women refusing to date and have sex with men right now ; feminism won't get anywhere as long as women do not take this kind of radical actions. i know it's a complicated topic since even "radical" feminists on here think it's too much and won't do it (while it's the basis of radical feminism) but i believe it's essential for women's liberation.

making sure men have access to women's bodies is the patriarchy's priority. in its head, that's what women are made for. that's why we are born. we exist to sleep with men - or should i say, to let men fuck us -, to marry them - become their servant and private prostitute - , to give them kids. it's one of the roots of the patriarchy. if we want to destroy the patriarchy, we have to destroy the roots. we have to destroy this root.

in history, feminism got somewhere everytime women took big actions against the patriarchy. posts are good, little actions help, but we need to make real noise. de frapper un grand coup. this way, we will be safer, and the patriarchy will be severly wounded.

#i know many women are already doing it #the best example i know being south Korean women #but it needs to get bigger #and it needs to appear in countries where women almost don't do it #radblr #radical feminism #radfem safe #radfem #radical feminist safe #radical feminists please touch #radical feminists do touch #rad fem #radical feminist #radical feminist community #radfeminism

[moidhaterxxx]

My experience with feminist action in India is incredibly interesting. On the one hand I've met women (like me) volunteering for womens shelters, making female education a priority, helping women with their career. Hell I come from a village where I'm the first one studying computer science! I have been told I've inspired so many women to do their further studies and nothing could make me prouder.

On the other hand I have met so many (usually richer) women who have so much power and education and they do.... Nothing.

No even worse than nothing, they hype up bad men, they proclaim they'd rather be a housewife and studying is useless, they hire and abuse other women, they take on American style liberal feminism and they champion trans bs.

I just don't understand this vast divide. We are all living in the same damn sexist country.

#radical feminists please touch #radfem #radical feminism #radical feminist safe #rudefem #Desi radfem #Indian radfem #Indian radical feminism #This is why I sometimes feel bitter that we aren't as scary as korean radfems #Like we should make it a movement similar to 6b4t here also

[bulldyke-rider]

I've said radfems like to use lesbians as an argument, as a talking point, as a shield or a bludgeon, like to draw us in, but it's all selfish and they don't really like us.

But they do similar shit with WOC. Bringing up every radical feminist group of women around the world when you get called a white feminist and then, behind closed doors, completely trashing the methods a lot of them use is fucked up.

Korean women get brought up so often, and isn't their feminist movement focused on celibacy and being single? Radblr is not the same as them. Y'all don't follow the same methods as them or seem to have the same beliefs.

[gynoids-over-androids]

https://www.tumblr.com/cometconmain/746758977734541312/i-support-the-women-of-south-korea-refusing-to-be

Gendies lying about SK feminists

"this movement isn't about misandry" yall never been on their forums?? lmao. and they're 100% justified in hating their scrotes lol.

SK feminists are not doing that in hopes that the patriarchy listens to them and men get better. what a naive view. i think OP projects their handmaidenry on these women. SKfems dgaf abt being seen as misandrists or about begging on their knees for pwoor mwen to get better. OP wants to imagine that SKfems are toothless libfems like them, but that can't be further from the truth.

i wonder if they realize that SK feminists who are doing that are quite literally terfs/ radfems?

OP knows nothing about radfems whether they're korean or from other countries.

anyway here is a very cool video where SK radfems explain what they do, take notes:

#ask

[like-a-ruby]

you can tell the conversation about dating men as a radfem is still framed by osa women bc it revolves way too much around their own interests on both sides of the debate. what would make them happy vs what would keep them safe. what about other women? the ones who can’t partner with a man to enjoy straight privilege, which includes children btw. what about the women & girls who would be safer as a result of the weakening of the system you choose to keep strong instead by partnering with men and letting them father & raise kids

lesbians should stop buying into osa women’s framing by being like “please care about yourself more and prioritize your safety” they care about themselves and prioritize themselves, it’s the problem. to be clear the problem is that they’re also pretending to care about a movement for the liberation of all women. they’re like “do you hate all het partnered women then? do you hate most of the world?” bc they don’t get it’s the incompatibility between their lifestyle choices and their so-called political beliefs that causes tension & resentment. call yourself a libfem instead and go date your bf in peace! instead it’s lesbians who give up on the radfem label one after the other once they see the incoherent defanged manloving support system osa women turn it into

the conversation about the hypocrisy of partnering with males as a radfem should revolve more around like the example set by south korean radfems who do try to align their actions with the interests of women as a collective and less around the shortsighted western framework of “please realize this is not safe for you as an individual <3” straight and bi women know what’s good for them as individuals in the short term that’s why they refuse to give up on the privilege they get from aligning themselves with men’s best interests. think how often we bring up the 4B movement as an inspiration, think how the USA dominates the news and online culture worldwide, now think how much of an impact a 4B-like movement based in the USA or the western world would have. but what will me breaking up with my nice bf do for women’s liberation, western osa 'radfems' will say, again showing their inability to escape their short term individualistic mindset to think in a long term and collective way

[onesettleronebullet]

This article is from a western radfem perspective but if you wanna understand the state of mainstream feminism in South Korea:

In response, women created Megalia, similar to Reddit, but free from misogyny. Megalia became an online space for building camaraderie among women, with friendship and tongue-in-cheek humour at its heart. It became common for women to call each other “vulvas” on the site, saying things like, “Well done — you are the strongest vulva,” or “Brilliant idea! You’re a great vulva.” However, Megalia had male users, and many of the site’s administrators were gay men. These men ostensibly were sympathetic to women’s experience of misogyny at first, but once conversation threads began to discuss the misogyny of gay men and gay male culture (like drag), women’s comments began to be removed.

...

Another reason there has been room for a radical women’s movement to thrive is because there is literal space for it. Women’s universities were set up across the country throughout the last century, and most cities are home to several women-only institutions (some have male lecturers, and sometimes male students from other universities can take a course for a term on the campus, but there are evening curfews when all men must leave). In the student union buildings, male professors and male family members of students are not allowed to enter. They are a 24-hour women-only zone.

...

While women’s universities emerged out of a Christian sentiment that considered it improper for unmarried women to mix with men, they provided fertile ground for feminism to flourish. Many of these campuses are surrounded by streets only women frequent, with shops and cafes almost exclusively full of women. As a result of this cultural norm, most cities have at least one or several women-only bars. (South Korea has not yet been captured by gender identity politics, so that means genuinely female-only.

#newpad.txt